#indiewebcamp 2013-12-18

2013-12-18 UTC
skinny, joeysim, abrereton, poppy, dentonjacobs, KartikPrabhu, tilgovi, melvster, barnabywalters, _6a68, bnvk, tantek, npdoty, snarfed, dvirsky, skinny_, tpinto, fmarier, kylewm_ and Acidnerd joined the channel
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snarfed current status: spent a couple hours trying to write a userstyle (background: http://userstyles.org/) that highlights and renders a site owner's h-card in a standard way
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snarfed …and failed. CSS Iz Hard.
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snarfed might be more doable with a JS userscript, or by someone with more CSS fu than me
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snarfed here it is, in all its half-baked, broken glory: https://github.com/snarfed/misc/tree/master/userscripts/lets_talk.user.css
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snarfed (the genericons font URLs are hard-coded right now, but that's the least of its problems)
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@t Unsubscribing from more Twitter "See what you're missing" emails. Such crap silo UX will drive people to the #indieweb (ttk.me t4Tb2) (twitter.com/_/status/413177913383870464)
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@HelSouth RT @aral: Meet the open source GitHub: GitLab. http://gitlab.org #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/413180296813494272)
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@HelSouth not that long ago I was wishful-thinking-aloud about starting our own internet... very excited to discover the #indieweb hashtag. (twitter.com/_/status/413181476889321472)
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@_le_fil_ Tantek: Unsubscribing from more Twitter "See what you're missing" emails. Such crap silo UX will drive people ... http://tantek.com/2013/351/t2/crap-silo-ux-will-drive-indieweb?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (twitter.com/_/status/413184328680497152)
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: do you have a mockup of what you are trying to do with the userstyle?
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snarfed no, not yet at least
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snarfed interested in trying? i can describe it
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snarfed i'll write up a brief description of the problems i ran into and add it to the file itself
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@t @igb "* sucks" is a copout. My calendar my data, I should be able to accept/reject at will. gCal is dumb. #ownyourdata (ttk.me t4Tb3) (twitter.com/_/status/413190994776309760)
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: sure. I'd like to take a crack at the CSS
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snarfed great! i'll push more details in a minute
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tantek gcal being a piece of crap is more motivation to work on getting personal indie events working
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snarfed tantek: agreed re gcal, historically at least. check your webmentions, i replied. :P
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tantek :)
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tantek snarfed - I checked my webmentions - nothing new from you
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: pushed an update w/more details
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snarfed tantek: hrmph. ok.
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tantek snarfed, did you fix your rel=webmention discovery?
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snarfed of course not. that would be the polite thing to do.
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tantek ;)
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snarfed i proceeded to forget about it and assume it would fix itself
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snarfed whee
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tantek was just doing a mental playback of the last time we had this conversation ;)
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snarfed your memory is better than mine
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snarfed as is pretty much everyone's :P
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: i suck at photoshop, but to verbal describe the goal of that userstyle: i was going for basically the same kind of icons that ben has on http://werd.io/, pinned to the top left with position: fixed. the icons themselves would be inserted automatically based on the h-card properties, via CSS and Genericons, and the rest of the h-card would be hidden.
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tantek this is a good post on blogging with a strong dose of indieweb thinking: http://gigaom.com/2013/12/16/in-12-years-of-blogging-the-more-things-change-the-more-they-stay-the-same/
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snarfed the goal is that you can toggle it on when you go to someone's site, and you always see the contact methods in their h-card rendered the same way. (and clickable if they've made them links.)
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: cool. I'll take a shot at it.
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snarfed thanks!
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snarfed tantek: debugging now. any chance you know a page of yours that webmention.io has a mention for, for comparison?
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snarfed i can search if you remember a keyword
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tantek snarfed - doesn't matter because that's orthogonal as those could show up via a simple curl
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tantek like your first done did
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snarfed oh i know. i'm debugging my site's discovery, and i'm using webmention.io's api to check that my site sends a webmention
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snarfed good point though, i can look at the last one i sent manually
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tantek http://snarfed.org/replies/discomfort-with-a-culture-of-performing
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snarfed thanks. curl 'http://webmention.io/api/mentions?target=http://tantek.com/2013/319/t2/discomfort-culture-performing-facebook-twitter' shows it
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tantek oh neat
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snarfed !tell aaronpk webmention.io feature request: allow some safe html in comment content, e.g. links. right now it strips all tags. :/ …i guess i should file it in github. off to do that now!
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@michaeldexter RT @t: Unsubscribing from more Twitter "See what you're missing" emails. Such crap silo UX will drive people to the #indieweb (ttk.me t4Tb2) (twitter.com/_/status/413205148085669888)
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tantek snarfed - saw your reply in my webmention.io queue
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snarfed thanks! yeah, manual again :/
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tantek and wow I'm disappointed even more in the gcal workaround
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snarfed heh
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tantek first a need to make a manual setting for what should be automatic, seamless, and obvious
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snarfed agreed
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snarfed if the recipient email is attached to your google account, that should be enough
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tantek and second, this is completely wrong: "Event responses will display as coming from **your Google Account**, not the alternate email address which was originally invited to the event"
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snarfed yup
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tantek sorry, gcal is dumb.
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snarfed i harassed them about this a long time ago when i worked there, and they agreed that it's dumb
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tantek the developers/designers that made these design decisions were being either lazy or stupid or both.
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snarfed basically, gcal hasn't really been staffed for years and years
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tantek oh so it's going to get shut down then like reader
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snarfed (with a few blips here and there)
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tantek that used the story there
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tantek reader wasn't staffed for years and years
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tantek I know, let's drop gcal and make everyone use G+ events!
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snarfed right. i thought it would die too, but it got a life extension since some of it is used as infrastructure for g+
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snarfed both the events and tasks part
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snarfed but agreed in spirit
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tantek so in Gmail Settings / Accounts / Send mail as:
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tantek there's already a setting:
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tantek When replying to a message:
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tantek (*) Reply from the same address the message was sent to
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tantek gCal should simply re-use that
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tantek that would be too obvious, wouldn't it?
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tantek and that took me like, what, under 60 seconds to find?
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tantek snarfed, what I don't understand is, don't people at google use gcal for their own meetings?
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snarfed right. it's an org problem, not an actual product challenge
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snarfed yes, but people at google don't use lots of different work email addresses :P
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tantek snarfed - odd - most google people I know use both gmail.com and google.com addresses
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snarfed sure, but the events are separate
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snarfed their personal emails aren't invited to work mtgs, or vice versa
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snarfed in general this problem is more likely to bite personal events, not work events
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tantek more and more I'm thinking there shouldn't be separate work identities
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snarfed eh yeah. it's a common debate
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snarfed some people feel strongly your way, some people feel strongly to keep them separate, some don't feel strongly
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snarfed i'm not sure there's a single right answer
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tantek the homebrew computer club reunion really made strong points about that
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tantek snarfed - well, I like putting the user in charge
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snarfed thought you might :P
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snarfed just like some people are inbox zero, some aren't. it's not a choice you want to force on users
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tantek if the user wants to create a second email for work purposes, then they should be able to
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snarfed uh…well, that gets into org IT policy, which is a separate question
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snarfed but yeah, if the org is fine with it, then sure
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snarfed it just happens that in practice, google corp doesn't, so their employees don't have this particular itch
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tantek also the whole bring your own computer thing
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tantek yeah - IT policies are often problematic
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snarfed eh, just tradeoffs, as usual. it'd be easier if more things were black and white :P
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tantek it's not black and white at all - it's an ideal
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tantek "You were going to go into your company, and take your own machine. " - Woz http://tantek.com/2013/322/b1/homebrew-computer-club-reunion-inspiration
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snarfed sure. the tradeoff is, in practice, users bring all sorts of malware, etc inside the org's firewall, and wreak havoc
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snarfed security people have a hard enough time with real threads like spear phishing and APTs
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snarfed but anyway. better discussion for in person. and i'm sure you've already had it many times before. :P
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tantek yes - times have gotten more complicated since the early days of Homebrew Computer Club
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tantek nowadays even USB sticks could have compromised firmware
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snarfed gotta love it
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snarfed 'night tantek, see you tomorrow
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tantek night
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tantek bedtime for me too
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Jihaisse Hello
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@jihaisse RT @LaFermeDuWeb: Bien démarrer avec les pages Github: http://24ways.org/2013/get-started-with-github-pages/ #fdw #pages #github #jekyll #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/413232172061831168)
cweiske, icco, zaal, anselm, srushe, jancborchardt, hadleybeeman, lmjabreu and pfefferle joined the channel
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@gericci RT @t: Unsubscribing from more Twitter "See what you're missing" emails. Such crap silo UX will drive people to the #indieweb (ttk.me t4Tb2) (twitter.com/_/status/413237929314877440)
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@fuater RT @t: Unsubscribing from more Twitter "See what you're missing" emails. Such crap silo UX will drive people to the #indieweb (ttk.me t4Tb2) (twitter.com/_/status/413247471981441024)
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@davidbgk Première Webmention sur mon blog https://larlet.fr/david/blog/2013/open-source-solidarite/#comment-5 /code https://gist.github.com/davidbgk/8020379 /cc @franckpaul @karlpro @edasfr (twitter.com/_/status/413321503581564929)
nloadholtes, bnvk, jonnybarnes, laurente, CheckDavid, snarfed, npdoty, melvster, andreypopp, eschnou, _6a68 and jschweinsberg joined the channel
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Loqi [mention] http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4TcHKu/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/authorship (webmention)
fritzy, tantek, KevinMarks, adactio, npdoty, tilgovi, snarfed, snarfed1, bnvk, jschweinsberg, zaal, anselm, srushe, jancborchardt, hadleybeeman, lmjabreu and caseorganic joined the channel
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bret what are all the popular event sits? meetup, eventbrite?
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bret sites*
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snarfed1 bret: definitely those. not sure of others, but i don't use them much
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bret I should probably post the HWC PDX event on those
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Loqi I agree
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bret aaronpk are you coming tonight?
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snarfed morning indiewebcamp! homebrew web site club mtg tonight. yay!
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Loqi giggles
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tantek bret - did you post on calagator?
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bret aaronpk posted to calegator this time I think
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bret or someone did
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bret not sure who
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tantek bret - you know what works better than popular event sites? personal invitations (like txt/IM/email your friends)
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tantek and then just be sure the calagator URL links to the indiewebcamp event URL and vice versa.
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bret this is true, i have been trying to rep it in the pdxtech channel
benprew, npdoty, dvirsky, bnvk, eschnou, fritzy, tpinto, paulcp, eschenal, jonnybarnes, caseorganic, KartikPrabhu, tantek, _6a68, CheckDavid, fmarier, andreypopp, voxpelli, squeakytoy and jchivers joined the channel
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jchivers hello, I wanted to drop by the SF homebrew meeting later - added myself to the RSVP section of the event wiki page - was there anything else I need to 'do' - or just show up? :)
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tantek that's it! see you tonight! :)
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jchivers groovy, thanks tantek (you can discard my email of course :) )
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tantek is bad at email.
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Loqi [@chloeweil] @keithbelfast There are people who have implemented reply contexts though
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Loqi I'm not that far ahead yet http://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context (http://twtr.io/g1W6hLQk55)
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voxpelli Just launched my IndieWebCamp UK project: http://voxpelli.com/2013/12/webmentions-for-static-pages/
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voxpelli tantek: ping :)
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tantek cool!
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tantek please add it to the /webmentions page!
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voxpelli will do!
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kodfabrik.se created /User:Kodfabrik.se (+36) "Created page with "[http://voxpelli.com/ Pelle Wessman]"" (view diff)
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tantek voxpelli - nice. now add yourself to /irc-people :)
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kodfabrik.se edited /webmention (+452) "/* IndieWeb implementations */ Adding VoxPelli.com implemention to list" (view diff)
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voxpelli tantek: I don't think I have any idea about how to do that ;) Not very used to the wiki yet
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tantek vopelli - it's ok. just copy/paste what others have done and change accordingly ;)
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kodfabrik.se edited /webmention (+225) "/* Implementations */ Added new services section amongst implementations" (view diff)
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kodfabrik.se edited /IRC_People (+54) (view diff)
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dietrich bret: coming over to mozpdx tonight?
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bret I am
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bret do you know if aaronpk is?
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dietrich cool. access issues should be all set.
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bret ok
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dietrich no, he's out of town iirc
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bret it might be pretty quiet this evening, I didnt get to promote it very much this week due to finals
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dietrich yeah, i've been busy too
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dietrich might be just some hacking and conversation, which is a-ok with me :)
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dietrich we can do a proper video link this time too
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bret i was just about to ask :) That should work better than an iPad mic
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bret I'll probably spend some time setting up meetup and eventbrite pages this evening too
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/12/18/1/maui linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2013-12-18-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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bret peat, I know you live in PDX, you interested?
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bret :p