#indiewebcamp 2014-01-02

2014-01-02 UTC
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snarfed
!tell barnabywalters looks like taproot is accepting webmentions from bridgy now. nice! e.g. http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4TqPDb/
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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ShaneHudson
Hmm turns out the post formats thing has been in WP since 2011. Yikes, shows how long it has been since I kept up with that!
tantek joined the channel
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Loqi
tantek: snarfed left you a message 5 days, 8 hours ago: love it! you beat me. (insert joke about un-possed posse post here :P)
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tantek
happy new year #indiewebcamp!
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tantek
wow away 5 days!
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tantek
snarfed - indeed, we all have some sharecropping to work on ;)
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ShaneHudson
Happy new year tantek! :)
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tantek
Happy new year Shane!
nloadholtes, Jeena, jschweinsberg, KevinMarks, schalkneethling, tantek, snarfed, melvster and icco joined the channel
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@t
2014 This is the year we change things. #vulnerabilities #respect #indieweb Game on. (ttk.me t4Tr1)
(twitter.com/_/status/418660336284499968)
dvirsky, friedcell, edwardasykes, eschnou, eschenal and pfenwick joined the channel
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@helloWhispers
@aaronpk noticed your answer on G+ error with Indieauth and I have put mine in the Other Profiles but no succes. Suggetsions are welcome.
(twitter.com/_/status/418702354033033217)
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@charlesroper
.@violetblue One of my projects for 2014: I'm going to move from Flickr to OpenPhoto on my own server. #indieweb http://theopenphotoproject.org/overview
(twitter.com/_/status/418727307667574784)
LauraJ, melvster, bnvk, nloadholtes, edwardasykes, Acidnerd1, glennjones, squeakytoy, Kopfstein, amblin, snarfed and barnabywalters joined the channel
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Loqi
barnabywalters: snarfed left you a message on 1/1 at 4:12pm: looks like taproot is accepting webmentions from bridgy now. nice! e.g. http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4TqPDb/
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barnabywalters
snarfed: huh, indeed it does. that’s the first I’ve heard of it
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barnabywalters
I revoked the tokens and haven’t signed up again since, so unless twitter’s token revoker is broken I’m not sure what’s happening
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barnabywalters
the mentions are both from people who are using bridgy, could it be that webmentions are being sent because of that?
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snarfed
barnabywalters: yeah, it's from other brid.gy users. hope you don't mind.
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barnabywalters
snarfed: not at all :) just means I need to implement de-duping quicker!
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KartikPrabhu
apparently CSS is getting blend modes: https://medium.com/p/6b51bf53743a
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KartikPrabhu
are folks trying to implement all of Photoshop in CSS?
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jchivers
anyone know when the next event might be? (website homebrew)
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jchivers
morning, btw :)
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aaronpk
good morning! I believe this week would have been a homebrew meetup, but it was NYE. so the next will be in 2 weeks!
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jchivers
aaronpk: ok cool so the 15th - got it - want me to update the wiki?
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aaronpk
sure! feel free to copy from the previous page
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jameschivers.com
edited /Events (+1) "/* Upcoming */"
(view diff)
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jameschivers.com
edited /Events (+937) "/* 2013 */"
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jameschivers.com
created /events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club (+1989) "Created page with "= <span class="p-name summary">Homebrew Website Club Meeting</span> = == Details == === When === <span class="dt-start dtstart"><time class="value">2014-01-15</time> at <time cla...""
(view diff)
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jameschivers.com
edited /events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club (-7) "/* Homebrew Website Club Meeting */"
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bnvk
Are any of you aware of a more modern / better approach to sharing of contact data instead of using VCard?
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bnvk
right, but exists on top of HTML
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bnvk
I mean for lower level passing around of contact data
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aaronpk
no reason you can't pass around small html documents
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aaronpk
could basically treat it as xml documents
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bnvk
MF inside of HTML really starts to cut into data available in a QR code
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aaronpk
or if you really hate that idea, could pass around the JSON parsed representation
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aaronpk
oh for QR codes, I think vcard is your best bet, it's pretty compact and most phones and things can open the files
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bnvk
Yah, is it acceptable to do JSON values where the keys are {"p-name":"Joe Smythe"}
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@benwerd
RT @t: 2014 This is the year we change things. #vulnerabilities #respect #indieweb Game on. (ttk.me t4Tr1)
(twitter.com/_/status/418841019614912512)
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bnvk
yah, I'm trying to create an easy way to share PGP keys / fingerprints, etc...
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benwerd
Loqi is super-fast at picking up those (re)tweets. Firehose / something else?
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Loqi
woot!
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aaronpk
streaming API search
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bnvk
hehe
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bnvk
tough call, I like JSON personally
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bnvk
but VCard is more widely distributed
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aaronpk
often he'll report one of my #indieweb tweets before my p3k interface finishes loading
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@Johannes_Ernst
RT @t: 2014 This is the year we change things. #vulnerabilities #respect #indieweb Game on. (ttk.me t4Tr1)
(twitter.com/_/status/418841765274058752)
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aaronpk
I'd say if you're going for something that can be used right now, you pretty much have to use vcard
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bnvk
le sigh
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bnvk
moving on :)
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bret
aaronpk, bnvk what about passing around the json mapping of vcard/hcard?
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aaronpk
yeah I suggested that, but doesn't solve the "use it right now on all devices" case
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bret
using the same vocab?
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aaronpk
you know how you can SMS someone a contact and they can open it up in their address book?
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aaronpk
or email a vcard file
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bret
right, i see
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KevinMarks
That was the hope with portable contacts
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KevinMarks
Vcard as json is very weird json though
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aaronpk
yeah I'm not a fan
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bear
nods
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bear
it feels wrong - but that may be because i'm sooo used to xml ;)
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KevinMarks
No, it feels wrong because it is so much like the vcard spec. The XML vcard specs are even worse
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bear
does see the humour of him saying that in a room full of web oriented devs
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bnvk
hehe
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bret
I managed to get node + express working over the holidays, porting over my templates and getting my existing posts imported is the current project ;)
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KevinMarks
QR codes are worse than photos of business cards for digital representations of contact data
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bnvk
KevinMarks: elaborate?
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KevinMarks
They're not human readable, and barely machine readable
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bnvk
what do you think about how they're be used in the Bitcoin world?
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bnvk
in that it's sole goal is to just pass a hash string from from device to another
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bnvk
aaronpk: that page with all the retweets & mentions is slick
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aaronpk
bnvk: oh cool, did I send you that?
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bret
QR codes are fine as a supplemental addition to human readable data no?
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aaronpk
I meant to reply to your email
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bret
bnvk which page?
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bnvk
aaronpk: no worried, but just I saw it now :) you should put the lil "Send Webmention" box at the comment of the thread so it looked like a comment box, maybe add a default avatar
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bret
oh yeah
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bret
totally rad
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aaronpk
oh it'd be cool to auto-parse the target URL before you hit "send" and show the profile photo it finds
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bnvk
aaronpk++
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Loqi
aaronpk has 316 karma
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aaronpk
oh neat it even shows "8 reposts" there. forgot I did that
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bret
aaronpk are you going to display retweets differently than comments eventually?
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aaronpk
and likes
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bnvk
wait, is your comment at the bottom a response to the post at the top?
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aaronpk
bnvk: it mentions the one at the top yeah, but not a direct reply
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bnvk
hrm, the link between the two is a bit blurry
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aaronpk
yeah, cause it's more like a traditional "pingback" than it is a comment or conversation
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bnvk
gotcha
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bret
aaronpk have you had any huge blogposts show up in a reply context?
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aaronpk
yeah lol
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bret
due to single mention
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aaronpk
some of tantek's I think
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bret
hehe
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aaronpk
well some of his really long notes anyway
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bnvk
maybe just a snippet like "referenced this in Other Post Title"
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aaronpk
cause if it's an actual blog post, then just the title shows up
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aaronpk
oh also I'm trying to avoid using third-party verbage like that
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aaronpk
you may notice that nowhere does it have any third-party wording like activity streams on the site
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bnvk
oh, interesting
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aaronpk
(with the exception of the new "retweeted this" and "liked this" which is a side effect of how bridgy is sending the mentions, which I will update with issue #21)
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aaronpk
this was a very intentional design decision, so I'm interested in finding solutions that keep that pattern
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bret
Maybe a simple character limit, Or the paragraph that includes the mention?
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aaronpk
definitely want to avoid the "[...] blah blah [...]" formatting that pingback always did
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aaronpk
so yeah it's unsolved right now
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bret
its hard to make sure that the context is very substantive
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aaronpk
in fact I think i'll make a github issue for it and reference this conversation
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KevinMarks
I was thinking about rel-me and Bitcoin wallet addresses
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@djp1974
RT @t: 2014 This is the year we change things. #vulnerabilities #respect #indieweb Game on. (ttk.me t4Tr1)
(twitter.com/_/status/418853060232757248)
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snarfed
arrives late
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snarfed
aaronpk definitely may be in the lead with rendering likes, reposts, etc on a post
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snarfed
bnvk, bret: you probably already know, but just in case (and for the channel), the webmentions for those retweets etc come from brid.gy
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snarfed
feel free to try it!
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bret
I know! I'm rapidly trying to improve my web mention support
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snarfed
glad to hear it!
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snarfed
a lot of people have said the same
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bret
snarfed, I have to include a link to my website, right?
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@djp1974
RT @t: 2013 was a good year for open web standards. Great working with W3C, WHATWG, @microformats, and #indieweb communities. (ttk.me t4Tq3)
(twitter.com/_/status/418854944813244416)
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snarfed
in the original post, yes
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bnvk
snarfed: yah, brid.gy is awesomesauce!
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snarfed
you don't have to tell bridgy when you sign up though, it detects post links and checks for webmention support
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snarfed
thanks bnvk!
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Loqi
https://twitter.com/bretolius :: @dukeleto It was great meeting you today! Thanks for anwering all my silly nginx questions :p
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snarfed
oh it definitely would. bridgy understands permashortcitations
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snarfed
with or without slash
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bret
no way! rad!
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@djp1974
RT @jmgoncalves: The blog might be dying, but the web's about to fight back #indieweb ~ Stephen's Web - http://traffic.shareaholic.com/e?a=1&u=http://www.downes.ca/post/61575&r=1
(twitter.com/_/status/418855437971103744)
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@djp1974
RT @brennannovak: @dantoml there's a better internet just around the corner- if we choose build it #IndieWeb
(twitter.com/_/status/418855539972403200)
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snarfed.org
edited /original-post-discovery (+382) "another implementation: brid.gy"
(view diff)
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@t
Easy #indieweb 2014 resolution: Post more on your site than Twitter, FB, etc. Like @neilhimself http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2013/12/where-did-i-go-out-what-did-i-do.html (ttk.me t4Ts3)
(twitter.com/_/status/418870082975322112)
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@Yohanli38
RT @t: Easy #indieweb 2014 resolution: Post more on your site than Twitter, FB, etc. Like @neilhimself http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2013/12/where-did-i-go-out-what-did-i-do.html (ttk.me t4Ts3)
(twitter.com/_/status/418870404543823872)
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Loqi
tommorris: tantek left you a message on 12/23 at 7:58pm: - nicely done. 
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tantek
reads logs
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tantek
aaronpk - somehow I missed this - well done with displaying reposts/retweets on http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/11/28/1/github-repo-collections !
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tantek
aaronpk, I notice that the POSSE copy https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/406086320872620032 also has favorites and a few @-replies - but not showing up on your permalinks. Are you showing only backfeed silo retweets for now? (backfeed favorites and @-replies in the works?)
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Loqi
https://twitter.com/aaronpk :: Github should let me create "Repo Collections," a way to feature sets of repositories on your Github profile... http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/11/28/1/github-repo-collections
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snarfed
the missing favorites are probably because bridgy only started sending twitter favorites very recently, and since it's using the twitter streaming api, it isn't backfilling them like it does everything else
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snarfed
as for replies and the one missing RT, they're probably older than bridgy's horizon
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tantek
snarfed - oh ok. I wonder if there's a way to "backfill" those when there's new activity on a post?
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tantek
does bridgy cache what it has seen from a particular post?
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snarfed
no, it's pretty unoptimized right now
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snarfed
it's probably more that it only looks back at the last n things from a given person, or on a given post, etc, and those n are pretty arbitrary right now
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snarfed
definitely a good feature request
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tantek
I wonder how much of that info is available via barnabywalters' mf2 parsing library in Twitter-compat mode
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aaronpk
tantek: thanks! yes I think snarfed described the problem
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tantek
when given a tweet permalink
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aaronpk
I believe even if we do pull favorites from the twitter html we won't know the date of them
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snarfed
probably true
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snarfed
twitter-compat mode! oh man, that sounds pretty great. adding to my todo list to look at
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tantek
jchivers - thanks for creating the event on the wiki for the next Homebrew Website Club meetup! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club
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snarfed
sadly i don't think it handles retweets or favorites yet
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tantek
snarfed - I'm not sure if retweets or favorites or even @-replies are in the Twitter permalink HTML - they might be XHRd in
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aaronpk
looking at the html, it looks like we'll be able to just get the list of people who favorited the tweet, but no timestamp
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tantek
aaronpk - that seems like a good start
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snarfed
both true. let's see, pulling up my research…
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aaronpk
oh crap, but we don't know whether it was a retweet or a favorite!
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tantek
also - on the mobile web UI, there are URLs that show the list of favorites or list of retweets for a tweet
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aaronpk
it's just called "js-face-pile-container"
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aaronpk
ooh mobile html... /me checks
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snarfed
no timestamps, but that's fine. bridgy sends other things without timestamps too, e.g. facebook reshares
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jchivers
nps tantek
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jchivers
looking forward to seeing you guys again
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tantek
interesting, looks like just /retweets or /favorites on the end of the permalink
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tantek
hmm - getting a 404 from URLs with /favorites etc. on the end if not logged in
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aaronpk
tantek: i'm getting 404s even when logged in
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snarfed
me too
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tantek
hmm - worked for me for my own tweets
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snarfed
odd, not for me
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tantek
on FF desktop too - no UA hackery
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tantek
snarfed - you have to log into the mobile site separately
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snarfed
ah, mobile site, got it
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aaronpk
hm nothing for me either
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snarfed
aaronpk is right, retweets is easy in the API. bridgy uses https://api.twitter.com/1.1/statuses/retweets.json . favorites is the difficult one
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tommorris
does favstar have an API?
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snarfed
whee, 2fa means i have to go generate a disposable password to log into mobile.twitter.com
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snarfed
tommorris: interesting idea
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tantek
aaronpk - snarfed - looks like the page requires a referrer!
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tommorris
I'm pretty sure the Twitter official iOS client (etc.) has some secret sauce APIs. because Tweetbot and other clients don't show your-tweets-being-favourited
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tantek
aaronpk, snarfed - yes that's it!
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snarfed
tommorris: hmm. they definitely could/can with the user streaming API. it's just fetching historical favorites that we're still working on
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tantek
and then click on "10 FAVORITES"
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tantek
(nevermind that the cursor is borked)
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tantek
(just click it :) )
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tantek
so *either* it requires a login AND referrer, *or* maybe not-logged-in could work if you send the right referrer
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snarfed
the favorited_popup endpoint seems the most promising so far. returns JSON, no referrer check
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tommorris
so, what we're saying is to get favourites, we need to sneak our way programatically on to twitter's mobile website and scrape
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tommorris
awesome, way to go twitter.
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tantek
tommorris - pretty much
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tommorris
this is why PhantomJS exists. ;)
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tommorris
so here's an idea: let's say I added a little scraper that went and got the RTs and faves from twitter and showed people their twitter icons on the original post.
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tommorris
with some nice shiny JS so if you hover over, you can click to go back to their page.
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tommorris
but if you login and associate your home page with your twitter account (or even not login, just do it and ping me about it), you get promoted as a premium retweeter ;)
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tommorris
your icon starts appearing at the beginning of the list. and instead of just linking back to your twitter, it also links to your personal site
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tommorris
it's not going all the way to indieweb, but it's nudging people along the path slightly.
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tommorris
rewarding people who have their own site on their own domain
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tommorris
(of course, this requires me to work on my site. which I'm finding it hard enough to find time to do.)
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snarfed
(just to close the loop for anyone reading logs and actually doing this: instead of the mobile site hack, use e.g. https://twitter.com/i/activity/favorited_popup?id=415371781264781312 . no referrer needed.)
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tantek.com
edited /events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club (+84) "RSVP, fix James' User: link"
(view diff)
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tantek
hey Portland folks (aaronpk bret caseorganic dietrich et al) - do we have confirmation on the Portland venue for: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club
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tantek
just noticed that list of Portland folks makes a convenient A, B, C, D
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tommorris
"js-stream-item stream-item stream-item" - lol oocss.
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tommorris
wonders if a London homebrew website club is a worthwhile endeavour
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tommorris
it could meet in my still-internet-free flat. ;)
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tantek
tommorris - you should ping benward - I think he is still in London
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tantek
and perhaps hadleybeeman would be interested too
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tantek.com
created /User:Jameschivers.com (+77) "stub with an h-card ;)"
(view diff)
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caseorganic
!tell aaronpk (tantek: hey Portland folks (aaronpk bret caseorganic dietrich et al) - do we have confirmation on the Portland venue for: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club)
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk
I'm in! Happy to host at esripdx again if mozilla is not an option
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Loqi
aaronpk: caseorganic left you a message 59 seconds ago: (tantek: hey Portland folks (aaronpk bret caseorganic dietrich et al) - do we have confirmation on the Portland venue for: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club)
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tantek
aaronpk - maybe put that as a tentative / backup as such in the wiki until dietrich shows up?
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@knitatoms
RT @t: Easy #indieweb 2014 resolution: Post more on your site than Twitter, FB, etc. Like @neilhimself http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2013/12/where-did-i-go-out-what-did-i-do.html (ttk.me t4Ts3)
(twitter.com/_/status/418882071755771904)
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@howardshipp_in
RT @t: Easy #indieweb 2014 resolution: Post more on your site than Twitter, FB, etc. Like @neilhimself http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2013/12/where-did-i-go-out-what-did-i-do.html (ttk.me t4Ts3)
(twitter.com/_/status/418882458453438464)
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aaronparecki.com
edited /events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club (+88) "happy to host at esripdx as a fallback venue"
(view diff)
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bret
caseorganic I have not heard any confirmations yet, but dietrich seemed interested in continuing at mozpdx last meeting
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bret
iirc
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caseorganic
bret: great
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dietrich
tantek: caseorganic bret aaronpk sadly i'll be out of town on 1/15
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tantek
dietrich - any chance of getting other MozPDX folks involved / helping with hosting?
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tantek
there must be SOMEONE else @MozPDX with their own website ;)
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bret
mathpunk was interested in coming to the next one I think
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bret
I'll try to talk brian henderson in coming again
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caseorganic
dietrich: drat
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caseorganic
bret: tantek: we're happy to host at esripdx
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bret
Rad, when I finish here at work I'll do a meetup and eventbrite page and ping some folks
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hadleybeeman
Thanks for thinking of me, Tantek / tommorris — but I'm afraid I'm in New York!
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the_merlin
heya folks!
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bret
hey the_merlin
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tantek
welcome the_merlin!
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tantek
go ahead and add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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@t
& #indiewebcamp veterans: Post notes on your site instead of or before Twitter. Like @chloeweil http://chloeweil.com/blog/hipster (ttk.me t4Ts4)
(twitter.com/_/status/418891446448844800)
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snarfed
wow. the first sentence of that blog post is "I built Twitter." confusing, to say the least. :P
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tantek
snarfed - it's a strong opening :)
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tantek
one day may we all make that claim
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snarfed
hmm. maybe, but i didn't understand it. still not sure i do.
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snarfed
regardless, good for her
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