#indiewebcamp 2014-01-02

2014-01-02 UTC
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snarfed !tell barnabywalters looks like taproot is accepting webmentions from bridgy now. nice! e.g. http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4TqPDb/
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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ShaneHudson Hmm turns out the post formats thing has been in WP since 2011. Yikes, shows how long it has been since I kept up with that!
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Loqi tantek: snarfed left you a message 5 days, 8 hours ago: love it! you beat me. (insert joke about un-possed posse post here :P)
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tantek happy new year #indiewebcamp!
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tantek wow away 5 days!
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tantek snarfed - indeed, we all have some sharecropping to work on ;)
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snarfed :P
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ShaneHudson Happy new year tantek! :)
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tantek Happy new year Shane!
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@t 2014 This is the year we change things. #vulnerabilities #respect #indieweb Game on. (ttk.me t4Tr1) (twitter.com/_/status/418660336284499968)
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@helloWhispers @aaronpk noticed your answer on G+ error with Indieauth and I have put mine in the Other Profiles but no succes. Suggetsions are welcome. (twitter.com/_/status/418702354033033217)
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Loqi [mention] http://bechster.dk/2014/01/01/2014/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/why (pingback)
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@charlesroper .@violetblue One of my projects for 2014: I'm going to move from Flickr to OpenPhoto on my own server. #indieweb http://theopenphotoproject.org/overview (twitter.com/_/status/418727307667574784)
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Loqi barnabywalters: snarfed left you a message on 1/1 at 4:12pm: looks like taproot is accepting webmentions from bridgy now. nice! e.g. http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4TqPDb/
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barnabywalters snarfed: huh, indeed it does. that’s the first I’ve heard of it
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barnabywalters I revoked the tokens and haven’t signed up again since, so unless twitter’s token revoker is broken I’m not sure what’s happening
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barnabywalters the mentions are both from people who are using bridgy, could it be that webmentions are being sent because of that?
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snarfed barnabywalters: yeah, it's from other brid.gy users. hope you don't mind.
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barnabywalters snarfed: not at all :) just means I need to implement de-duping quicker!
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KartikPrabhu apparently CSS is getting blend modes: https://medium.com/p/6b51bf53743a
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KartikPrabhu are folks trying to implement all of Photoshop in CSS?
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@danielito you files in your cloud : http://owncloud.org #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/418793592618889216)
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jchivers anyone know when the next event might be? (website homebrew)
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jchivers morning, btw :)
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aaronpk good morning! I believe this week would have been a homebrew meetup, but it was NYE. so the next will be in 2 weeks!
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jchivers aaronpk: ok cool so the 15th - got it - want me to update the wiki?
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aaronpk sure! feel free to copy from the previous page
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jameschivers.com edited /Events (+1) "/* Upcoming */" (view diff)
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jameschivers.com edited /Events (+937) "/* 2013 */" (view diff)
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jameschivers.com created /events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club (+1989) "Created page with "= <span class="p-name summary">Homebrew Website Club Meeting</span> = == Details == === When === <span class="dt-start dtstart"><time class="value">2014-01-15</time> at <time cla..."" (view diff)
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jameschivers.com edited /events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club (-7) "/* Homebrew Website Club Meeting */" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks both @jobsworth http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2014/01/01/were-not-gonna-take-it-the-age-of-the-disruptive-customer/ and @aral http://vimeo.com/81015888 say "we're not going to take it" #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/418816164903407616)
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@aral RT @kevinmarks: both @jobsworth http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2014/01/01/were-not-gonna-take-it-the-age-of-the-disruptive-customer/ and @aral http://vimeo.com/81015888 say "we're not going to take it" #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/418839080609533953)
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bnvk Are any of you aware of a more modern / better approach to sharing of contact data instead of using VCard?
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aaronpk well there's http://microformats.org/wiki/h-card
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bnvk right, but exists on top of HTML
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bnvk I mean for lower level passing around of contact data
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aaronpk no reason you can't pass around small html documents
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aaronpk could basically treat it as xml documents
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bnvk MF inside of HTML really starts to cut into data available in a QR code
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aaronpk or if you really hate that idea, could pass around the JSON parsed representation
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aaronpk oh for QR codes, I think vcard is your best bet, it's pretty compact and most phones and things can open the files
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bnvk Yah, is it acceptable to do JSON values where the keys are {"p-name":"Joe Smythe"}
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@stevesong RT @kevinmarks: both @jobsworth http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2014/01/01/were-not-gonna-take-it-the-age-of-the-disruptive-customer/ and @aral http://vimeo.com/81015888 say "we're not going to take it" #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/418840982885789697)
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@benwerd RT @t: 2014 This is the year we change things. #vulnerabilities #respect #indieweb Game on. (ttk.me t4Tr1) (twitter.com/_/status/418841019614912512)
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bnvk yah, I'm trying to create an easy way to share PGP keys / fingerprints, etc...
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aaronpk no, check out the parsed version of any page with microformats on it: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faaronparecki.com%2Fnotes%2F2013%2F11%2F28%2F1%2Fgithub-repo-collections
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benwerd Loqi is super-fast at picking up those (re)tweets. Firehose / something else?
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Loqi woot!
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aaronpk streaming API search
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benwerd nice
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bnvk hehe
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bnvk tough call, I like JSON personally
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bnvk but VCard is more widely distributed
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aaronpk often he'll report one of my #indieweb tweets before my p3k interface finishes loading
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@Johannes_Ernst RT @t: 2014 This is the year we change things. #vulnerabilities #respect #indieweb Game on. (ttk.me t4Tr1) (twitter.com/_/status/418841765274058752)
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aaronpk I'd say if you're going for something that can be used right now, you pretty much have to use vcard
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bnvk le sigh
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bnvk moving on :)
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bret aaronpk, bnvk what about passing around the json mapping of vcard/hcard?
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aaronpk yeah I suggested that, but doesn't solve the "use it right now on all devices" case
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bret using the same vocab?
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aaronpk you know how you can SMS someone a contact and they can open it up in their address book?
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aaronpk or email a vcard file
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bret right, i see
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bear vcard as json is an ietf draft spec : https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-jcardcal-jcard/
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KevinMarks That was the hope with portable contacts
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KevinMarks Vcard as json is very weird json though
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aaronpk yeah I'm not a fan
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bear nods
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bear it feels wrong - but that may be because i'm sooo used to xml ;)
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bret XD
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KevinMarks No, it feels wrong because it is so much like the vcard spec. The XML vcard specs are even worse
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bear does see the humour of him saying that in a room full of web oriented devs
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bnvk hehe
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bret I managed to get node + express working over the holidays, porting over my templates and getting my existing posts imported is the current project ;)
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KevinMarks QR codes are worse than photos of business cards for digital representations of contact data
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bnvk KevinMarks: elaborate?
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KevinMarks They're not human readable, and barely machine readable
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bnvk what do you think about how they're be used in the Bitcoin world?
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bnvk in that it's sole goal is to just pass a hash string from from device to another
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bnvk aaronpk: that page with all the retweets & mentions is slick
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aaronpk bnvk: oh cool, did I send you that?
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bret QR codes are fine as a supplemental addition to human readable data no?
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aaronpk I meant to reply to your email
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bret bnvk which page?
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bnvk aaronpk: no worried, but just I saw it now :) you should put the lil "Send Webmention" box at the comment of the thread so it looked like a comment box, maybe add a default avatar
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bnvk bret: http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/11/28/1/github-repo-collections
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bret oh yeah
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bret totally rad
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aaronpk oh it'd be cool to auto-parse the target URL before you hit "send" and show the profile photo it finds
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bnvk aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 316 karma
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aaronpk oh neat it even shows "8 reposts" there. forgot I did that
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bret aaronpk are you going to display retweets differently than comments eventually?
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk and likes
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bnvk wait, is your comment at the bottom a response to the post at the top?
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aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/p3k/issues/21
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bret bnvk http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/12/22/1/webmention-p3k
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aaronpk bnvk: it mentions the one at the top yeah, but not a direct reply
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bnvk hrm, the link between the two is a bit blurry
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aaronpk yeah, cause it's more like a traditional "pingback" than it is a comment or conversation
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bnvk gotcha
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bret aaronpk have you had any huge blogposts show up in a reply context?
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aaronpk yeah lol
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bret due to single mention
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aaronpk some of tantek's I think
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bret hehe
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aaronpk well some of his really long notes anyway
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bnvk maybe just a snippet like "referenced this in Other Post Title"
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aaronpk cause if it's an actual blog post, then just the title shows up
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aaronpk oh also I'm trying to avoid using third-party verbage like that
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aaronpk you may notice that nowhere does it have any third-party wording like activity streams on the site
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bnvk oh, interesting
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aaronpk (with the exception of the new "retweeted this" and "liked this" which is a side effect of how bridgy is sending the mentions, which I will update with issue #21)
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bnvk hrm
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aaronpk this was a very intentional design decision, so I'm interested in finding solutions that keep that pattern
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bret Maybe a simple character limit, Or the paragraph that includes the mention?
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aaronpk definitely want to avoid the "[...] blah blah [...]" formatting that pingback always did
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aaronpk so yeah it's unsolved right now
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bret its hard to make sure that the context is very substantive
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aaronpk in fact I think i'll make a github issue for it and reference this conversation
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bnvk brb
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KevinMarks I was thinking about rel-me and Bitcoin wallet addresses
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@djp1974 RT @t: 2014 This is the year we change things. #vulnerabilities #respect #indieweb Game on. (ttk.me t4Tr1) (twitter.com/_/status/418853060232757248)
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snarfed arrives late
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snarfed aaronpk definitely may be in the lead with rendering likes, reposts, etc on a post
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snarfed bnvk, bret: you probably already know, but just in case (and for the channel), the webmentions for those retweets etc come from brid.gy
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snarfed feel free to try it!
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bret I know! I'm rapidly trying to improve my web mention support
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snarfed glad to hear it!
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snarfed a lot of people have said the same
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bret snarfed, I have to include a link to my website, right?
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@djp1974 RT @t: 2013 was a good year for open web standards. Great working with W3C, WHATWG, @microformats, and #indieweb communities. (ttk.me t4Tq3) (twitter.com/_/status/418854944813244416)
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snarfed in the original post, yes
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bnvk snarfed: yah, brid.gy is awesomesauce!
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snarfed you don't have to tell bridgy when you sign up though, it detects post links and checks for webmention support
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snarfed thanks bnvk!
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bret snarfed so this wouldn't work: https://twitter.com/bretolius/status/401950051636768768
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Loqi https://twitter.com/bretolius :: @dukeleto It was great meeting you today! Thanks for anwering all my silly nginx questions :p
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snarfed oh it definitely would. bridgy understands permashortcitations
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snarfed with or without slash
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bret no way! rad!
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snarfed :P
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@djp1974 RT @jmgoncalves: The blog might be dying, but the web's about to fight back #indieweb ~ Stephen's Web - http://traffic.shareaholic.com/e?a=1&u=http://www.downes.ca/post/61575&r=1 (twitter.com/_/status/418855437971103744)
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@djp1974 RT @brennannovak: @dantoml there's a better internet just around the corner- if we choose build it #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/418855539972403200)
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snarfed.org edited /original-post-discovery (+382) "another implementation: brid.gy" (view diff)
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tantek nice back-to-your-own-site post by Neil Gaiman: http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2013/12/where-did-i-go-out-what-did-i-do.html
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@t Easy #indieweb 2014 resolution: Post more on your site than Twitter, FB, etc. Like @neilhimself http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2013/12/where-did-i-go-out-what-did-i-do.html (ttk.me t4Ts3) (twitter.com/_/status/418870082975322112)
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@Yohanli38 RT @t: Easy #indieweb 2014 resolution: Post more on your site than Twitter, FB, etc. Like @neilhimself http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2013/12/where-did-i-go-out-what-did-i-do.html (ttk.me t4Ts3) (twitter.com/_/status/418870404543823872)
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Loqi tommorris: tantek left you a message on 12/23 at 7:58pm: - nicely done. 
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tantek reads logs
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tantek aaronpk - somehow I missed this - well done with displaying reposts/retweets on http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/11/28/1/github-repo-collections !
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tantek aaronpk, I notice that the POSSE copy https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/406086320872620032 also has favorites and a few @-replies - but not showing up on your permalinks. Are you showing only backfeed silo retweets for now? (backfeed favorites and @-replies in the works?)
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Loqi https://twitter.com/aaronpk :: Github should let me create "Repo Collections," a way to feature sets of repositories on your Github profile... http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/11/28/1/github-repo-collections
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snarfed the missing favorites are probably because bridgy only started sending twitter favorites very recently, and since it's using the twitter streaming api, it isn't backfilling them like it does everything else
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snarfed as for replies and the one missing RT, they're probably older than bridgy's horizon
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tantek snarfed - oh ok. I wonder if there's a way to "backfill" those when there's new activity on a post?
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tantek does bridgy cache what it has seen from a particular post?
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snarfed no, it's pretty unoptimized right now
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snarfed it's probably more that it only looks back at the last n things from a given person, or on a given post, etc, and those n are pretty arbitrary right now
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snarfed definitely a good feature request
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tantek I wonder how much of that info is available via barnabywalters' mf2 parsing library in Twitter-compat mode
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aaronpk tantek: thanks! yes I think snarfed described the problem
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tantek when given a tweet permalink
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aaronpk I believe even if we do pull favorites from the twitter html we won't know the date of them
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snarfed probably true
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snarfed twitter-compat mode! oh man, that sounds pretty great. adding to my todo list to look at
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snarfed tantek, i assume you meant https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2-shim ?
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tantek yes!
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tantek jchivers - thanks for creating the event on the wiki for the next Homebrew Website Club meetup! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club
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snarfed sadly i don't think it handles retweets or favorites yet
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snarfed https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2-shim/blob/master/Mf2/Shim/Twitter.php
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tantek snarfed - I'm not sure if retweets or favorites or even @-replies are in the Twitter permalink HTML - they might be XHRd in
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aaronpk looking at the html, it looks like we'll be able to just get the list of people who favorited the tweet, but no timestamp
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tantek aaronpk - that seems like a good start
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snarfed both true. let's see, pulling up my research…
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aaronpk oh crap, but we don't know whether it was a retweet or a favorite!
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tantek also - on the mobile web UI, there are URLs that show the list of favorites or list of retweets for a tweet
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aaronpk it's just called "js-face-pile-container"
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aaronpk ooh mobile html... /me checks
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snarfed i looked at using e.g. https://twitter.com/i/activity/favorited_popup?id=415371781264781312 , which is json
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snarfed no timestamps, but that's fine. bridgy sends other things without timestamps too, e.g. facebook reshares
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jchivers nps tantek
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jchivers looking forward to seeing you guys again
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tantek interesting, looks like just /retweets or /favorites on the end of the permalink
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aaronpk there's this: https://dev.twitter.com/docs/api/1.1/get/statuses/retweeters/ids
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tantek hmm - getting a 404 from URLs with /favorites etc. on the end if not logged in
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aaronpk tantek: i'm getting 404s even when logged in
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snarfed me too
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tantek hmm - worked for me for my own tweets
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snarfed odd, not for me
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tantek on FF desktop too - no UA hackery
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tantek snarfed - you have to log into the mobile site separately
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snarfed ah, mobile site, got it
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aaronpk ah
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tantek e.g. https://mobile.twitter.com/t/status/418251719303495680/retweets
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aaronpk hm nothing for me either
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snarfed aaronpk is right, retweets is easy in the API. bridgy uses https://api.twitter.com/1.1/statuses/retweets.json . favorites is the difficult one
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aaronpk ah
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tommorris does favstar have an API?
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snarfed whee, 2fa means i have to go generate a disposable password to log into mobile.twitter.com
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snarfed tommorris: interesting idea
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tantek aaronpk - snarfed - looks like the page requires a referrer!
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aaronpk lol!
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snarfed wow
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tommorris I'm pretty sure the Twitter official iOS client (etc.) has some secret sauce APIs. because Tweetbot and other clients don't show your-tweets-being-favourited
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tantek aaronpk, snarfed - yes that's it!
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tantek I can see https://mobile.twitter.com/aaronpk/status/406086320872620032/favorites for example
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tantek if I first go to https://mobile.twitter.com/aaronpk/status/406086320872620032
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snarfed tommorris: hmm. they definitely could/can with the user streaming API. it's just fetching historical favorites that we're still working on
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tantek and then click on "10 FAVORITES"
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tantek (nevermind that the cursor is borked)
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tantek (just click it :) )
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tantek so *either* it requires a login AND referrer, *or* maybe not-logged-in could work if you send the right referrer
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snarfed crazy
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snarfed the favorited_popup endpoint seems the most promising so far. returns JSON, no referrer check
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tommorris so, what we're saying is to get favourites, we need to sneak our way programatically on to twitter's mobile website and scrape
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tommorris awesome, way to go twitter.
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tantek tommorris - pretty much
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tommorris this is why PhantomJS exists. ;)
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tommorris so here's an idea: let's say I added a little scraper that went and got the RTs and faves from twitter and showed people their twitter icons on the original post.
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tommorris with some nice shiny JS so if you hover over, you can click to go back to their page.
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tommorris but if you login and associate your home page with your twitter account (or even not login, just do it and ping me about it), you get promoted as a premium retweeter ;)
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tommorris your icon starts appearing at the beginning of the list. and instead of just linking back to your twitter, it also links to your personal site
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tantek ooh
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tommorris it's not going all the way to indieweb, but it's nudging people along the path slightly.
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tommorris rewarding people who have their own site on their own domain
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tommorris (of course, this requires me to work on my site. which I'm finding it hard enough to find time to do.)
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snarfed (just to close the loop for anyone reading logs and actually doing this: instead of the mobile site hack, use e.g. https://twitter.com/i/activity/favorited_popup?id=415371781264781312 . no referrer needed.)
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club (+84) "RSVP, fix James' User: link" (view diff)
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tantek hey Portland folks (aaronpk bret caseorganic dietrich et al) - do we have confirmation on the Portland venue for: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club
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tantek just noticed that list of Portland folks makes a convenient A, B, C, D
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tommorris "js-stream-item stream-item stream-item" - lol oocss.
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tommorris wonders if a London homebrew website club is a worthwhile endeavour
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tommorris it could meet in my still-internet-free flat. ;)
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tantek tommorris - you should ping benward - I think he is still in London
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tantek and perhaps hadleybeeman would be interested too
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tantek.com created /User:Jameschivers.com (+77) "stub with an h-card ;)" (view diff)
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tantek jchivers - add yourself: http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC-people
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caseorganic !tell aaronpk (tantek: hey Portland folks (aaronpk bret caseorganic dietrich et al) - do we have confirmation on the Portland venue for: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek heh
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aaronpk I'm in! Happy to host at esripdx again if mozilla is not an option
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Loqi aaronpk: caseorganic left you a message 59 seconds ago: (tantek: hey Portland folks (aaronpk bret caseorganic dietrich et al) - do we have confirmation on the Portland venue for: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club)
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tantek aaronpk - maybe put that as a tentative / backup as such in the wiki until dietrich shows up?
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werd.io edited /events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club (+82) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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aaronpk sure
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Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/looking-forward-to-catching-up-with-the-homebrew-website-club linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club (pingback)
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@knitatoms RT @t: Easy #indieweb 2014 resolution: Post more on your site than Twitter, FB, etc. Like @neilhimself http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2013/12/where-did-i-go-out-what-did-i-do.html (ttk.me t4Ts3) (twitter.com/_/status/418882071755771904)
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@howardshipp_in RT @t: Easy #indieweb 2014 resolution: Post more on your site than Twitter, FB, etc. Like @neilhimself http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2013/12/where-did-i-go-out-what-did-i-do.html (ttk.me t4Ts3) (twitter.com/_/status/418882458453438464)
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club (+88) "happy to host at esripdx as a fallback venue" (view diff)
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bret caseorganic I have not heard any confirmations yet, but dietrich seemed interested in continuing at mozpdx last meeting
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bret iirc
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caseorganic bret: great
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dietrich tantek: caseorganic bret aaronpk sadly i'll be out of town on 1/15
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tantek dietrich - any chance of getting other MozPDX folks involved / helping with hosting?
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tantek there must be SOMEONE else @MozPDX with their own website ;)
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bret mathpunk was interested in coming to the next one I think
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bret I'll try to talk brian henderson in coming again
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caseorganic dietrich: drat
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caseorganic bret: tantek: we're happy to host at esripdx
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bret Rad, when I finish here at work I'll do a meetup and eventbrite page and ping some folks
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hadleybeeman Thanks for thinking of me, Tantek / tommorris — but I'm afraid I'm in New York!
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the_merlin heya folks!
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bret hey the_merlin
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tantek welcome the_merlin!
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tantek go ahead and add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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@t & #indiewebcamp veterans: Post notes on your site instead of or before Twitter. Like @chloeweil http://chloeweil.com/blog/hipster (ttk.me t4Ts4) (twitter.com/_/status/418891446448844800)
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snarfed wow. the first sentence of that blog post is "I built Twitter." confusing, to say the least. :P
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tantek snarfed - it's a strong opening :)
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tantek one day may we all make that claim
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snarfed hmm. maybe, but i didn't understand it. still not sure i do.
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snarfed regardless, good for her
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