#indiewebcamp 2014-01-16

2014-01-16 UTC
friedcell joined the channel
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tantek
Woot Jeremy in the house!
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aaronpk
what hashtag are people using for homebrew website club?
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tantek
oh I don't think we had one
fmarier joined the channel
scor joined the channel
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bret
aaronpk: I still plan on getting there early to help however/hack a little. A little after 5:30?
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aaronpk
sounds good
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aaronpk
i need to grab some food before I think
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bret
Ill just give to a text/call
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bret
when i'm outside
paulcp_ joined the channel
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tantek
checks the hashtag
li3n3 joined the channel
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tantek
haha HotWaterCornbread
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tantek
or Health & Wellness Center
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tantek
or Hunt Wicked Close
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tantek
or Heartland Worship Center
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tantek
HandleWithCarePlay
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tantek
haahaha: Herd werking Canadian
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tantek
ZOMS a hashtag for a hashtag: #herewecome
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tantek
and The Highway Code
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tantek
oh dear: HOE CRUSH WEDNESDAY
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tantek
um what? Homeless World Cup
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rknLA
Hashtag Writing Competition
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tantek
rknLA++
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Loqi
rknLA has 1 karma
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aaronpk
rknLA wins this round
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tantek
aaronpk - from searching for Homebrew Website Club the predominant hashtag is #indieweb so we might as well just keep using that
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aaronpk
heh ok
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aaronpk
were you able to figure out how to send a video URL?
paulcp_ joined the channel
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bret
not too many rsvps on the portland side of things, but i had at least two people express interest in coming today, and it looks like a few others are interested in coming next time
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tantek
any RSVPs on the calagator?
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bret
I dont think calagator does RSVPs
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bret
we have gotten some just showing up each time though
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bret
aaronpk: running a tad late, leaving now, be there in about 10 mins
scor joined the channel
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rknLA
is #hwc really only expected to last an hour tonight?
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aaronpk
they're supposed to be short :)
scor joined the channel
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
tantek joined the channel
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rknLA
excellent. gives me time for gym afterwards :D
charlesroper joined the channel
pasevin joined the channel
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bear
is waiting for air mozilla to start
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bret
tantek: volume is turned down low, can't really hear atm and aaronpk is in the other room on the phone
jchivers and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
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bear
sees a logo/splash screen
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aaronpk
it's a pretty nice logo though
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tantek
bear - that's because we haven't started yet I think
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bear
:) just checking
stb, jernst and benwerd joined the channel
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benwerd
Feel like I should have maybe brought a laptop..
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the_merlin
man, I hoped to make it, but it is not to be. :(
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the_merlin
how's it going over there?
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benwerd
Karaoke is about to begin
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bear
hears voices!
npdoty joined the channel
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bear
yes, it's both videos showing
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aaronpk
for those of you at home, we're live! https://air.mozilla.org/homebrew-website-club/
edrex joined the channel
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npdoty
is en route, on Bart.
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tantek
@pius_
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tantek
uses yeoman
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edrex
ah iz at esri!
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tantek
josh juran - has metamage.com
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tantek
but moving personal things to jjuran.org
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tantek
has a homebrew blogging system
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tantek
where he writes in markdown
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tantek
gets converted into a web template
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tantek
benwerd on the mic
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tantek
werd.io
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tantek
got his Firefox Social API working!
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tantek
primary way that he replies and posts now
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tantek
lately he's been working a notification system
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bret
i like the new avatar tantek :)
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tantek
so that in part you can webmention his home page
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tantek
and it will show up as a notification for him
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tantek
after that really interested in privacy
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tantek
kevin - rknLA
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tantek
taking baby steps with his own site
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tantek
this year planning to write a blog thing
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tantek
experimenting with node and happyjs
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tantek
hapi.js
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tantek
iterating on some backend stuff
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bear
hapi.js is amazing
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tantek
using a geologger that aaronpk built
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tantek
getting off the ground is his goal for 2014
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rknLA
++hapi
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tantek
ryanb - snarfed.org
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tantek
current project brid.gy
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tantek
interest is connecting indieweb with the silos
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tantek
if you post on your own site and POSSE to silos
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bret
hapi is great! It powered @walmartlabs on black friday this year. Averaged less than 10% cpu load the whole time
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bear
ah - so that is what snarfed looks like!
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benwerd
brid.gy is super-awesome
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tantek
bridgy will send comments, likes, faves, retweets back to your own site
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tantek
pricing it at zero dollars
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Loqi
bridgy has 3 karma
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bret
bridgy++
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Loqi
bridgy has 4 karma
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tantek
jernst
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tantek
goals for 2014
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rknLA
bret: yeah... i have slight conflicts about the walmart thing, but hey, getting them to subsidize open source software is an interesting idea.
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tantek
one doable and one impossible
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tantek
for his own family this is the year to take the data back home
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tantek
took his home server and hooked it up to comcast etc.
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tantek
local dns firewall etc.
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tantek
with help of the indiebox code
joshjuran joined the channel
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tantek
has put a bunch of apps there for the family
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tantek
first bookmarking
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tantek
off delicious, using shaarlie for bookmarks
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tantek
one command install for indiebox
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tantek
next thing he did is owncloud
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tantek
family calendar is using his own server
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tantek
integrated with all the ipads and iphones in the family
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joshjuran
== jjuran
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tantek
this has actually changed behavior
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tantek
people are now confident that they know what is happening to their data
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tantek
people are using it more
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tantek
doctors appointments
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tantek
also lots more data for amily
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tantek
family
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tantek
shared documents
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tantek
better than a sheet of paper
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tantek
next thing is going to be inhouse email
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tantek
to send things to each other without going through an outside provider
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tantek
then photos
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tantek
one thing he is doing just for his family
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tantek
all the stuff that is happening out there
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tantek
wants the data at home (literally)
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tantek
second goal
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tantek
people in this room, people like us
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tantek
we have an obligations
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tantek
has a blog upon2020
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tantek
was/is about what is happening in the year 2020
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tantek
not sure what is going to happen in 2020 based on current trajectory
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tantek
not so many people have the ability to bend the universe slightly
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tantek
the people in this room have that ability somewhat
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tantek
we have some obligation here to bend the universe slightly
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tantek
let's find like minds
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tantek
so we can take big guys out of the picture for ourselves
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tantek
really really want to connect with you guys to do something
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tantek
real goal is to get a billion households enabled.
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tantek
let's do something here
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tantek
question from rknla - do you have offsite backups
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tantek
jernst: the catastrophe I have now is if google gets rid of all my email
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tantek
more likely than my raid array going bad
KevinMarks joined the channel
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tantek
what I'd like to see is incremental backup
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tantek
to something like Amazon glacier
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tantek
with a public key scheme
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tantek
lots of tricky problems to solve
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KevinMarks
wondering if tweeting this is useful
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aaronpk
can you guys here ok?
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joshjuran
Yes
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tantek
aaronpk - can you take notes for PDX?
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tantek
KevinMarks yes!
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aaronpk
bret.io - putting a scanning electron microscope to publish video on the web
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tantek
KevinMarks just hashtag #indieweb so that it shows up here too interlaced
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aaronpk
also writing a node.js backend for his website parsing markdown files for his website
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aaronpk
learning node.js along the way
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@rknLA
OH at #hwc "I'm working on putting a scanning electron microscope online using webrtc" #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/423648978287071232)
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aaronpk
edrex:
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aaronpk
been doing static sites for a few years. used ikiwiki first git-backed wiki
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aaronpk
working with couchapps, new client-side implementation of couchdb
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aaronpk
eric.pdxhub.org
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tantek
do you own pdxhub?
Pius joined the channel
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tantek
sounds like a community site ;)
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aaronpk
working with lauren on a collaborative creating writing platform (a silo, but uses couchdb and the whole app is replicatbale)
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rknLA
"PDXHub is a volunteer-operated technology cooperative supporting Portland and Greater Cascadia."
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tantek.com
created /falcon (+20) "r"
(view diff)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @edrex: Working on collaborative creative writing - currently a silo, but built on couchdb so can potentially sync
(twitter.com/_/status/423649530878640130)
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aaronpk
working on syncing data between installs
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aaronpk
lauren - not a programmer, working on the content side of hte project
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aaronpk
has been using wordpress
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KevinMarks
notes that the twitter-handle centricity of noterlive is a problem in this context
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aaronpk
pdxxcollective.com - lauren is one of the primary contributors
snarfed joined the channel
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aaronpk
tom - mathpunk.net - "I have a website on the internet now"
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edrex
pillowfork.com is the collaborative writing site, but there's no splash page until tomorrow
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aaronpk
It's a VPS, so it's a comptuer that i've never met that thinks about a computer that I "own" but technically rent
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rknLA
complete with h-card!
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rknLA
(tom's website, i mean)
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bret
This is aaronpk
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bret
WOrking on UI updates to http://aaronparecki.com/
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tantek
spurred by bridgy
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tantek
spewing things to his site
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bret
in order to handle incoming webmentions form bridy
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tantek
also been working on indieauth
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tantek
has a couple of iphone apps that he uses
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tantek
logged in via indieauth to his own site
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tantek
no other parties involved
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tantek
have been working on writing that up
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tantek
and a library for it
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tantek
so others can use it too
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @aaronpk: I now have a couple of iPhone apps that login via IndieAuth that will post to my own site without third parties
(twitter.com/_/status/423650331437051904)
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edrex
pillowfork is an experiment in discoursive social interactions, using content addressable storage
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snarfed
spew really is bridgy's forte!
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @edrex: pillowfork is an experiment in discoursive social interactions, using content addressable storage
(twitter.com/_/status/423650467093413888)
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aaronpk
Q: Of all the homebrew/indieweb things that happened in 2013, what is the most amazing thing you have seen?
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tantek
benwerd
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tantek
one of the big achievements was that comment thread
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tantek
what started as a proof of concept
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tantek
became a gateway
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rknLA
link to comment thread?
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rknLA
thanks
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @benwerd: the big achievement last year was the webcomment thread that became a gateway to connect people to the indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/423650693124489217)
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tantek
it really opened the flood gates
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tantek
ryan (snarfed) totally agree with that
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tantek
hashtags #indieweb and #ownyourdata seem to have spread
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Pius
oh, here's the link to the Amazon Web Services provisioner I mentioned: http://pius.me/built/a-yeoman-generator-for-aws
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tantek
tons of people have heard of these ideas
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tantek
that alone is huge
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tantek
brings in a lot of people
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tantek
easily googleable
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tantek
second what ben was saying
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tantek
with replies and now bringing in backfeed from other places
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tantek
a wonderful sloppy mess of lots of people in the real world
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tantek
brings in
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tantek
started small and manageable
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@OhhSocialMedia
RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @aaronpk: I now have a couple of iPhone apps that login via IndieAuth that will post to my own site without third…
(twitter.com/_/status/423651017948160000)
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@OhhSocialMedia
RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @edrex: pillowfork is an experiment in discoursive social interactions, using content addressable storage
(twitter.com/_/status/423651018631827456)
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tantek
but now great to bring in unwashed masses
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tantek
including eventually we'll have to handle spam
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @snarfed_org: this year lots of people have heard about IndieWeb, now we are connecting to non-coders and have to handle spam
(twitter.com/_/status/423651121765548032)
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aaronpk
thanks bret
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tantek
joshjuran: in addition to new tech in 2013
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tantek
another thing
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tantek
that happened, not done by us
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tantek
but people realizing that maybe they need to get off the big data silos
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: The number of questions being asked in this community encourage me - do we want unique sites or an indieweb install
(twitter.com/_/status/423651540608761856)
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@bretolius
RT @rknLA: OH at #hwc "I'm working on putting a scanning electron microscope online using webrtc" #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/423651702185529344)
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bear
defined edges and defined APIs between them - then we can have as many implementations that we need/want and they can be collected as others UI folks deem
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Loqi
[@kevinmarks] #indieweb @t: the question "how many implementations do we need?" stumped me. 1 is clearly too few
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Loqi
Millions is clearly too many. Thousands! (http://twtr.io/h2JniPdxM4)
Pius joined the channel
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: when the building blocks are simple enough that we have thousands of implementations, we have the right building blocks
(twitter.com/_/status/423651905920073728)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: Thousands mean we have made things easy enough for anyone skilled in the craft to implement. You can't shut down thousands
(twitter.com/_/status/423652056730456064)
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tantek
bret - RSVPs, events microformats
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tantek
(aaronpk?)
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tantek
(can't quite hear bret - need you to take notes)
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bret
Ack, sorry
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tantek
josh - I'm building a web alternative
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tantek
jernst - hate it but we gotta do marketing
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joshjuran
"The filesystem is the network."
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tantek
rknLA - marketing is a good idea, but we still need more in the way of usability to hit the marketing well
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tantek
more things like automatic, yeoman style instaserver things
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @Johannes_Ernst: If we're going to get to thousands, we are going to need marketing, much as I hate it
(twitter.com/_/status/423652661985304576)
snarfed joined the channel
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tantek
benwerd - strongly agree with rknLA - would add to that the usability of the social layer itself. none of us are typical users and there's a lot to be said for how ordinary people use facebook twitter etc.
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tantek
have been kind of a village idiot posting chickens and such and want to keep doing that
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tantek
dmose - short question - havent read any of the mailing list
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @benwerd: The usability of the social layer itself that we are building is key: none of us are typical users. Indieweb needs memes
(twitter.com/_/status/423652893787701248)
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rknLA
i was just about to say..... THERE IS A MAILING LIST?!
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bret
Restating what I wanted to say: I was really pleased at how easy it was to develop on top of the existing indieweb building blocks when helping out on RSVPs and Events
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tantek
(there is no mailing list)
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tantek
still building a mental model of what the indieweb is about
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tantek
if anyone here wants to summarize that
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bear
who is speaking?
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tantek
understand broad conceptual sense
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tantek
but not the concrete goals
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tantek
dmose speaking
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aaronpk
bear: he's slightly off-screen to the left
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tantek
ryan (snarfed)
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tantek
indiewebcamp.com/why is the best ansewr
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tantek
a few principles - see indiewebcamp.com/principles
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tantek
ownyoudata, selfdogfood, rough consensus and running code
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tantek
rknLA - looking forward to seeing selfdogfood on a billboard soon
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Loqi
[@kevinmarks] #indieweb @snarfed_org: http://indiewebcamp.com/why is the best answer: own your data
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Loqi
self dogfood
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Loqi
rough consensus and running code (http://twtr.io/h2KJajbvFE)
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tantek
just visited the why page and it's really long
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tantek
all of this can be summarized in one word, and that's autonomy
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tantek
(aaronpk - what's the URL for caseorganic's preso slide with FREEDOM?)
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tantek
personal liberty, regaining control
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@Johannes_Ernst
#indieweb is all about autonomy. Yes!
(twitter.com/_/status/423653378061647872)
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tantek
of all the metadata that is created just by living your life
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tantek
how that's handled
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tantek
the reason I do the geologging on my phoen
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@OhhSocialMedia
RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @benwerd: The usability of the social layer itself that we are building is key: none of us are typical users. Ind…
(twitter.com/_/status/423653471481757696)
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tantek
because AT&T already has that data - I don't have that data
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tantek
personal freedom
mathpunk and npd joined the channel
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tantek
dmose - the thing I still don't have
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tantek
the what
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tantek
they why I get
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tantek
is this a set of building blocks?
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tantek
or is it more than that
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tantek
ryan - the single biggest what to start with is POSSE
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tantek
social networks are the most obvious and biggest
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tantek
have your own domain
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tantek
domain is key
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aaronpk
what to start with? have your own domain, then POSSE
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tantek
can move to a separate website
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aaronpk
when you own the domain, you choose who owns it, you can move it to another provider
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aaronpk
without visitors needing to know
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @snarfed_org: Have your own domain is key - you can then move it. POSSE is next
(twitter.com/_/status/423654021883498496)
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tantek
scottbullard.com
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tantek
new to this group
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bret
Depends on the TLD though, it can become unstable if you choose a weird one
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tantek
can bring some marketeer and just some newbie perspective
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tantek
going to make an unflattering comparison
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KevinMarks
can become unstable other ways
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tantek
on the /why page - first several reasons were all fear based
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npd
What do we think about shared domains within small groups, families or communities?
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tantek
seems to conflict with broad scale billions of households
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aaronpk
I would point him to http://indiewebcamp.com/principles which is much more positive
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tantek
the groups that most resemble this would be survivalists or preppers
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tantek
who are very niche groups
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npd
Rather than asking each nontechnical friend of mine to keep up their own
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rknLA
npd: sounds like a good idea.
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bret
IndieSurvivalists :p
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tantek
who are very concerned with things that might happen if systems breakdown
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tantek
it seems like that's the main thing
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aaronpk
also maybe we should move "Focusing on the Positive" up to the top of the /why page
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb Scott: The indieweb Why page is mostly based on fear - you look like survivalists or a militia
(twitter.com/_/status/423654461341712384)
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bear
a slightly unfair comparison as most survivalists have not already had to deal with systems going out of business or closing or losing data
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aaronpk
brett - blogged a set of positive reasons
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aaronpk
tantek: we've reached the level of maturity that it's time to fliup that. let's put the positives first.
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npd
Maybe we could focus on the possible advantages of groups like preppers, without that being the public face
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joshjuran
There's a difference between "what if the electrical grid shuts off?" and "what if Google mines our data and gives it to NSA?"
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joshjuran
The latter has already happened
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: Bret Slatkin encouraged us to have positive reasons: http://indiewebcamp.com/2012/Positive_Arguments
(twitter.com/_/status/423654722453917696)
snarfed joined the channel
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KevinMarks
the electricity grid has shut off in my house before now...
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bret
Decentralization and protocols and federation as good architecture
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bret
Distributed information is more resilient
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@OhhSocialMedia
RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb Scott: The indieweb Why page is mostly based on fear - you look like survivalists or a militia
(twitter.com/_/status/423655148385501184)
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tantek
aaronpk - motivations - events - to connect people
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @aaronpk: my motivation is not survivalist, but connecting to other people
(twitter.com/_/status/423655244464422912)
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bret
I do it because its been a fun journey
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tantek
jernst - POSSE to banks
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tantek
would like some OSS that runs on his server
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @Johannes_Ernst: POSSE use case for banks - you send money on your own site between banks, and POSSEs to the financial world
(twitter.com/_/status/423655446961209344)
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tantek
like a virtual electronic mattress
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bret
POSSE to online bank accounts. :D way cool. Maybe simplebank could do that?
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tantek
aaronpk - notes?
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aaronpk
i'd like my website to be at least as good as paper
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: POSSE banking is like personal electronic mattress. [did Johannes just invent POSSEcoin]
(twitter.com/_/status/423655640897425408)
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aaronpk
i get a lot of information about my state of mine by looking at my handwriting at the time
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aaronpk
(mathpunk.net)
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tantek
(who)
ApolloLee joined the channel
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@Johannes_Ernst
RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @Johannes_Ernst: POSSE use case for banks - you send money on your own site between banks, and POSSEs to the fina…
(twitter.com/_/status/423655766344478721)
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aaronpk
trivial example: a blog post is chromological. i don't know hwy i want everythong chronological
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aaronpk
i'm more interested in writing around a topic
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rknLA
re: architecture that the internet will eventually have, i think it's a waxing/waning thing, sort of like mainframes / personal computers / terminals... it was distributed for a while, then consolidated into AOL for a long time, became distributed again with the commoditization of high bandwidth connectivity, and has become consolidated again with facebook
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rknLA
/ twitter. we'll continue to wax and wane.
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@snarfed_org
RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @snarfed_org: Have your own domain is key - you can then move it. POSSE is next
(twitter.com/_/status/423655844727640064)
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aaronpk
it'd be really great if i could interface with an atbiratry service in a wacky arbitrary way
snarfed joined the channel
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@Johannes_Ernst
:-P “@kevinmarks: #indieweb @t: POSSE banking is like personal electronic mattress. [did Johannes just invent POSSEcoin]”
(twitter.com/_/status/423655869058801665)
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npd
indieweb can take advantage of idiosyncratic, sui generis services, rather than lowest common denominator
Pius joined the channel
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @mathpunk: I want my website to be at least as useful as paper - I can tell my mood from handwriting and sketchiness
(twitter.com/_/status/423655947572355072)
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@OhhSocialMedia
RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @aaronpk: my motivation is not survivalist, but connecting to other people
(twitter.com/_/status/423655985845379072)
#
@OhhSocialMedia
RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @Johannes_Ernst: POSSE use case for banks - you send money on your own site between banks, and POSSEs to the fina…
(twitter.com/_/status/423655986877181952)
#
@OhhSocialMedia
RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @t: POSSE banking is like personal electronic mattress. [did Johannes just invent POSSEcoin]
(twitter.com/_/status/423655987841871872)
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @mathpunk: I don't want everything chronological, I want to make my own piles of information
(twitter.com/_/status/423656106461003776)
#
aaronpk
people will take the tols you give them and use them in unexpected ways
#
KartikPrabhu
bear: should line 110 here https://github.com/bear/ronkyuu/blob/master/ronkyuu/webmention.py#L110 say discoverEndpoint instead of discoverWebmention ?
#
rknLA
"most people started using snapchat because they were concerned about persistence of data"
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @snarfed_org: people were driven to snapchat by a pain - because they were scared of persistence of data
(twitter.com/_/status/423656373164208128)
#
rknLA
(doesn't snapchat actually keep data anyways?)
#
aaronpk
"stop worrying about getting other people to stop using facebook. worry about what it would take you to get you to stop using facebook." - barnaby
#
bear
@KartikPrabhu yes! good bug find
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: we're falling into the 'design for the masses' antipattern. Barnaby said build what it takes to stop you using facebook
(twitter.com/_/status/423656542886707200)
#
aaronpk
tantek: "until you get it working for yourself, forget about the marketing"
#
mathpunk
rknLA: underdeveloped concept-- "provably ephemeral"
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: until you have it working for yourself, forget marketing. Build it, do it, only then speak it.
(twitter.com/_/status/423656661690384385)
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npd
But part of what keeps me using Facebook is that my friends are reading over there
#
rknLA
is anyone actually doing anything banking-related?
#
KartikPrabhu
npd: hopefully more POSSE tools should come along. quite a few here working on that
#
npd
... so convincing my friends to use some technology for reading is important for me
#
rknLA
i have a little cash tracking ios app, but i'm using dropbox as a backend for it right now.. :(
#
bret
rknLA: barnabywalters is doing stuff with bitcoin tip jars
#
npd
Kartik, yes, absolutely, that makes posse particularly important
#
KartikPrabhu
POSSE is on my todo-list for 2014
#
ApolloLee
Mine, too.
#
ApolloLee
And migration to hyde from WordPress on all of my myriad domains that I update twice a decade.
#
rknLA
hmm.. yeah, i'm kinda kicking myself for not getting into the whole bitcoin thing,
#
KartikPrabhu
bear: thanks! just looking through ronkyuu for some guidance for my own webmention module/package.
#
bear
who ever is adjusting the audio/video for MozSF *HUG*
#
rknLA
but i think most "typical users" aren't really paying attention to it either.
#
ApolloLee
Does using IFTTT violate the principles of POSSE?
#
bear
KartikPrabhu - if you find that changes to ronkyuu will make it useful for you, please do suggest/ask/do changes
#
aaronpk
mathpunk: throwing things in evernote and twitter favorite (pinboard picks it up it has a link)
#
aaronpk
planning for interfaces that don't exist yet
#
npd
ApolloLee, if it works, go for it!
#
npd
... though I'd be worried it would be a little brittle
#
KartikPrabhu
bear: i will definitely. but I want to try my newly acquired (minimal) python skills on this :)
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @Johannes_Ernst: I want a crowd-sourced product to make this work for people
(twitter.com/_/status/423657705040277504)
#
bear
KartikPrabhu - *nod* I completely get that!
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: the hard part is the integration, not the hacking. self-dogfood forces us to integrate these pieces
(twitter.com/_/status/423657845197131777)
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ApolloLee
npd: I was worried about that as well. I played with it for a while on Twitter with #fb and #tb tags for Tumblr & Twitter, but for some reason it doesn't work anymore.
#
ApolloLee
So, I sort of figured I'd have to code it up myself.
#
ApolloLee
So, watch out, because I was a music major.
#
KartikPrabhu
bewnwerd: I seem to have broken something here (http://werd.io/2014/im-making-50-pieces-of-art-do-you-want-one) with my webmention. or maybe it is my own bad implementation of h-entry
#
npd
ApolloLee, one factor that will matter is whether you're publishing on Twitter first, or going the other direction
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @Johannes_Ernst: I want to build a product. I want to make an Altair for indieweb.
(twitter.com/_/status/423658452301651968)
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ApolloLee
npd: with IFTTT, it was twitter first.
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @benwerd: I want something for my family. I want to plug it into a wall and have it working.
(twitter.com/_/status/423658577078001665)
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KartikPrabhu
anyone know of a good python implementation/attempt thereof of a POSSE module?
#
ApolloLee
I'd like to eventually post on my site and have something update twitter with a short stub.
#
ApolloLee
I'm caring less and less about facebook, which seems to have purchased upworthy, viralnova, and buzzfeed.
#
ApolloLee
But, that's just me.
#
ApolloLee
(btw: anybody have a facebook script that hides anything that contains " {user} shared { whatever } "?)
#
ApolloLee
is old and cranky.
#
@kevinmarks
Homebrew Website Club notes (incomplete as I was late) at http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2014-01-15.html #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/423659258404552704)
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KartikPrabhu
bear++ for the nicely written doc strings in ronkyuu
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Loqi
bear has 1 karma
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npdoty
ApolloLee, Twitter had for a while prevented triggers in IFTTT to reacting to tweets
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npdoty
... but it looks like that's recently been re-opened, at least for reacting to your own tweets
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tantek
aaronpk - please encourage portland folks to RSVP to the wiki page
#
bear
KartikPrabhu thanks - i find that I need some memory assist when coming back to my personal projects so good docs help
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ApolloLee
I should keep my eye on SF Bay Meetups a little more closely.
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aaronpk
mathpunk++
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Loqi
mathpunk has 3 karma
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KartikPrabhu
bear: I see that you donot conform to the pep8 naming conventions. any particular reason or just personal style?
#
bear
KartikPrabhu - old old personal habits
#
bear
once I find that the refactoring is happening less - I will normally run the code thru a pep8 validator and make adjustments
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KartikPrabhu
how do you feel about having wrapper functions that correspond to pep8? just something I have been thinking
#
bear
but right now the code changes a lot
#
bear
I would rather use pep8 if it means more folks using/reading the code
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KartikPrabhu
bear: got it. less talk more do... i should start following that i suppose ;)
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bear
it's a hard mindset to reach
#
bear
I find that most of the fine tuning of a lib for publication can sometimes hinder the active development of it
#
bear
so my rule is anything before version 0.8 is going to be messy
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb problems of caonicalising what you have read - see SG nodemapper https://code.google.com/p/google-sgnodemapper/
(twitter.com/_/status/423665188659679232)
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tantek
SF waves bye to PDX
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aaronpk
bye guys!
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@_crossdiver
@caseorganic looks like those redecorators struck again... #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/423666100421681153)
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bear
KartikPrabhu - I just pushed the bug fix you found and also switched to Pep8 for most of the lib (kept some bear'isms tho)
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KartikPrabhu
bear: I never meant to say that you should use pep8. That was just a n00b wondering out loud
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KartikPrabhu
i did get an email about the bug-fix. nice how github sends notifications!
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bear
KartikPrabhu - :) - no worries, the fact you are looking at my code as a n00b kinda spurred me to switch to it
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@dealingwith
@benwerd must we use a webmention to notify you?
(twitter.com/_/status/423671900338786305)
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KartikPrabhu
bear: forked ronkyuu to play around with changes to implement on my site. will see where it goes
#
bear
KartikPrabhu - cool! I welcome your thoughts and feedback.
#
@sfhostel
Learn about IndieWeb and how to create your own space for social networking, FREE meet-ups in San Francisco http://www.rockitcolabs.com/introduction-indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/423673555721535488)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb Homebrew Website Club continued (near Kichi) (at @Westfield San Francisco Centre w/ 6 others) http:///login?continue=%2Fkevinmarks%2Fcheckin%2F52d760fb498e8a04f802adc0
(twitter.com/_/status/423674221597048832)
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@OhhSocialMedia
RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb Homebrew Website Club continued (near Kichi) (at @Westfield San Francisco Centre w/ 6 others) http://t.co/QIQh8qE…
(twitter.com/_/status/423674957726756864)
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KevinMarks
I was using #indieweb
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aaronpk
KevinMarks++ for the amazing live tweeting
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Loqi
KevinMarks has 5 karma
snarfed and jchivers joined the channel
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Events (+970) "add next homebrew website club"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
this page is getting ridiculous http://indiewebcamp.com/Events
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snarfed
sigh, twitter is now 403ing bridgy's oauth requests for new user signup
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snarfed
is hoping hard that they didn't shut it down
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@erinjo
@benwerd Is this going to be like a postcard chain letter for the indieweb without the postcard? Or maybe you .. http://erinjo.is/2014/benwerd-is-this-going-to-be-like-a-postcard-chain
(twitter.com/_/status/423685843572629504)
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bear
snarfed - are you making occasional calls to the ratelimit endpoint to see how your doing
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snarfed
i back off when i get 429s
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bear
nods
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snarfed
i'm not explicitly checking the ratelimit endpoint, but i figured that would be enough
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bear
status page shows that userstream is having some issues
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snarfed
they shut down another of my projects before for TOS violation, for syndicating tweets - http://twitter-atom.appspot.com/ - and this is similar, so i fear that
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snarfed
ah. this is user signup, not streaming API, but hopefuly tahat's it
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snarfed
looks doubtful, rest api status seems ok. investigating more
#
bear
twitter can really suck for a 3rd party dev
#
bret
That went super well, had some good discussions after the video link and people are voicing an interested in a HWC hack session on the weekend
#
bear
wish there was some way to capture some of the after-video sessions
#
bret
s/an interested/interest
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Loqi
bret meant to say: That went super well, had some good discussions after the video link and people are voicing interest in a HWC hack session on the weekend
#
bret
bear, I can try to capture some on the wiki
#
bear
nods
#
bear
it's not that urgent - just curious to get a feel for what are the topics and issues in general
#
bret
I think we forgot a group photo dang
#
bret
bear, i need to get them down before they leak out of my head
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snarfed
wells fargo CA check routing #: [[redacted]]
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snarfed
account #s:
#
snarfed
personal checking: [[redacted]]
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snarfed
personal savings: [[redacted]]
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bear
pokes snarfed
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bear
bad cut-n-paste ^^^
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bret
ruh roh
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bear
someone get the loqi logs edited
#
Loqi
who, me?
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bret
yeah you, dorko
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snarfed
hah, crap
#
snarfed
sorry all
#
bear
who runs loqi?
#
bret
aaronpk
#
snarfed
aaronpk
#
Loqi
lolz
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snarfed
not a big deal, i'll freeze them for now
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bear
aaronpk - can you do an emergency edit of the logs?
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aaronpk
what hi
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aaronpk
oh god
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snarfed
i'm an idiot
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snarfed
no worries, i'll freeze the accounts, no actual danger
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bear
snarfed - still better to get them out of the logs IMO
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aaronpk
i can delete that from the logs
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snarfed
but still. apologies for being a dumbass
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snarfed
oh of course
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snarfed
thanks man
#
aaronpk
but that doesn't stop the fact that they were sent to the 69 people in this channel
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bear
oh I think we've all done that in some form or another
#
aaronpk
and may be logged on their computers
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snarfed
very true
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snarfed
i'll handle that part
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snarfed
if you can remove them from the web logs, that's more than enough. i'll do the rest
#
bret
i have posted passwords into irc on accident
#
snarfed
sorry for the trouble
#
bret
no worries
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snarfed
heh, yeah
#
snarfed
thanks aaronpk
#
aaronpk
i'm gonna replace the line with [[redacted]] instead of actually delete the line
caseorganic joined the channel
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snarfed
sounds good, thanks
#
snarfed
bleh. apologies again, all. fun with computers!
#
aaronpk
numbers replaced, but text is retained for posterity's sake
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snarfed
heh sure. i'm dumb sometimes, no need to hide that!
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bret
snarfed++
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Loqi
snarfed has 1 karma
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snarfed
heh thanks
#
aaronpk
for future reference, exactly what you did is a very effective way of getting a hold of me
#
aaronpk
(multiple IRC mentions in a row from different people)
#
aaronpk
I get push notifications of IRC mentions when I'm afk
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snarfed
we figured. thank you for responding!!!
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bret.io
edited /events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club (+916) "/* Notes */ Added notes from PDX p2p session"
(view diff)
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /Events (+805) "/* Upcoming */"
(view diff)
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /Events (+26) "/* Upcoming */"
(view diff)
#
aaronpk
seriously considering setting up a calagator install at events.indiewebcamp.com
#
aaronpk
the /events page is getting long and hard to maintain
#
aaronpk
then I would have a good excuse to build webmention RSVP into calagator
#
bret
it might also serve as a good proving ground for a webmention RSVP support PR eventually
#
bret
exactly
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aaronpk
that sounds potentially more useful than adding better h-event support and rsvp to indienews
#
bret
aaronpk what irc client do you use again?
#
bret
i forget the name
#
aaronpk
weechat
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bret.io
edited /events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club (+373) "/* Portland P2P Section */"
(view diff)
#
aaronpk
i like it a little better than irssi
#
bret
yeah honestly looking over your shoulder it appears nicer than irssi
#
aaronpk
the sidebar with nicks makes a huge difference
#
aaronpk
also i don't have a very customized weechat setup, but you can go pretty crazy with the plugins
#
bret
i dont get the big deal with irssi, its really funky... I only like the persistance
jchivers joined the channel
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bret.io
edited /events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club (+76) "/* RSVP */ Noted other who showed up"
(view diff)
#
bret
I forget the names of the other two people there :(
#
bret
Need to take better notes next time
#
bret
bear, put some links up from PDX
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aaronparecki.com
edited /events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club (+101) "/* RSVP */ names, but don't know their URLs"
(view diff)
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bret.io
edited /events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club (+116) "/* Portland P2P Section */ Added another topic"
(view diff)
#
bear
i'm really curious about camlistore
#
bear
it reminds me a lot about *DAV from the last iteration of the web
#
snarfed
camlistore is great! the leads are good friends of mine, they're good guys
#
bear
yea, i've been following their work for a while
#
snarfed
apologies and thanks again for the dumb move all (bear, bret, aaronpk). accounts frozen, no harm done. thank you for jumping on it!
#
bret
camlistore seems really awsome, like a more generalized git or something
#
bret
I really like the idea of separation of data awareness and data availability
#
bret
my devices should be able to identify what data it has, and where it is also stored, and assert that it no longer wants to store something, but remain aware of where it can retreive it from in the future
#
bret
git annex does this sort of too
#
bear
I like that they have made it a generic blob store that has some great sync and mutable features already in place
#
bret
IE, why doesn't my phone show me all the songs in my music library from home? and allow me to assert, next time you can talk to something that has this, grab a copy!
#
bear
nods
#
aaronpk
interestingly you basically described how spotify works :)
#
bret
except, my own music that spotify doesnt nessisarily have
#
aaronpk
yes except that
#
bret
iTunes/iPod is a monoculture, and its bumming me out
#
bear
I just view it as a better personal data store
#
bear
what really tickled me was the blob signing
#
bear
and that it's chunked already - so the implementation across devices is already resource friendly
#
snarfed
yeah, they tend to work bottom up, so the UX/product parts are often rough, but the foundation is really solid
#
bret
I would love to read a beginner introduction and tour article about camlistore
#
bret.io
edited /events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club (+26) "/* RSVP */ Added Erik's URL"
(view diff)
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bret
gnight all
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cweiske
we used the official installer
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saurik, tantek and pfefferle joined the channel
pfenwick, KevinMarks, melvster, KevinMarks_ and squeakytoy joined the channel
#
pfenwick
After not having a personal website for a couple of years after a server crash, I'm very glad that http://pjf.id.au/ has been re-born. And the best thing about having an open website is that I've already received pull requests to fix things and add content. :)
#
voxpelli
pfenwick: that's the way it should be!
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@nxD4n
POSSE is an acronym/abbreviation for Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere. http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE #reclaim /@diplix @saschalobo
(twitter.com/_/status/423757432989294592)
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@benatkin
I realized it's irrelevant whether I subscribe to some arguments for #htmldrm. @netflix's influence is bad for the #openweb. #ownyourdata
(twitter.com/_/status/423777795114684416)
stb and pfefferle joined the channel
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@benatkin
@benatkin I don't think I've ever been un-RTed three times in a minute before. @StudyNotesApp isn't your soapbox? #sry #openweb #ownyourdata
(twitter.com/_/status/423783355507675136)
charlesroper, glennjones, skinny, voxpelli and pasevin joined the channel
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@voxpelli
@snarfed_org Got an example of the microformated posts that Bridgy uses? Can I add it to my test? https://github.com/voxpelli/node-webmention-testpinger
(twitter.com/_/status/423787512503353344)
squeakytoy2, bnvk, stb_____________, Zegnat, Sebastien-L, glennjones, pfenwick, scor and Lorn_ joined the channel
#
Zegnat
Open question. When shortening URLs for display, should the middle or last part be cut out? E.g. example.com/…/my-post vs example.com/posts/…
#
cweiske
depends on the url
friedcell joined the channel
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Zegnat
True cweiske, but when you want the CMS to handle it that makes for a slightly more complicated choice
stb_____________, nloadholtes, chloeweil, skinny, pasevin, KartikPrabhu, Zegnat_, brianloveswords_, Sebastien-L and indiewebcamp-vis joined the channel
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#
barnabywalters
ha ha ha that note links to itself so when I used aaronpk’s mention client to resend it’s mentions it became it’s own comment!
#
barnabywalters
!tell benwerd loving the art for indiecomments idea! apparently idno isn’t resolving relative author photo URLs on http://werd.io/2014/im-making-50-pieces-of-art-do-you-want-one — is this my fault or are you using an older version of php-mf2?
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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#
jonnybarnes
hey barnabywalters you there?
#
barnabywalters
greetings jonnybarnes
#
jonnybarnes
so random question about your site, why is it I can see your note posting UI? or in particular how does the site know to let you post, but not me?
#
jonnybarnes
hang on, someones at the door
#
aaronpk
barnabywalters: did you implement IndieAuth for that?
#
barnabywalters
yep, basically anyone can see /notes/new, if you’re not me (i.e. don’t have a domain of waterpigs.co.uk) you can’t post and it shows you the welcome guest banner
#
barnabywalters
if you are me (but only I am me) it lets you (me) post
#
barnabywalters
yep, I log in using indieauth
#
barnabywalters
currently delegating to indieauth.com, hopefully soon I’ll clone it in PHP and use that as part of my site
#
aaronpk
barnabywalters: we should get on a video call soon so I can walk you through the new indieauth stuff
#
aaronpk
indieauth+micropub
#
aaronpk
cause I really want to see people be able to use your note posting interface to post to their own site
#
barnabywalters
aaronpk: that’d be cool, I’ve been watching from a distance but not implementing anything yet
#
aaronpk
i think you'll pick up on it quick, just need to step through it
#
barnabywalters
yep, that would be awesome. log in to WaterPigs.co.uk and have everything discovered seamlessly
#
jonnybarnes
hi guys, back
#
jonnybarnes
ah yes, I see the indieauth login at the top of the page
#
tantek
homework assignment for next Homebrew Website Club meeting: bring a noobie - someone who's never been to a Homebrew Website Club meeting before
#
barnabywalters
I’m planning on taking the indieauth authentication code and remember-me cookie setting and turning them into stackPHP middlewares
snarfed joined the channel
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jonnybarnes
that'd be super cool
#
tantek
hey snarfed - I just gave out a homework assignment for the next meeting
#
tantek
everyone: bring a noobie - someone who's never been to a Homebrew Website Club meeting before
#
tantek.com
created /events/2011 (+613) "2011 events"
(view diff)
#
jonnybarnes
barnabywalters: what is the name field in your new note field for?
#
jonnybarnes
note form even
#
tantek.com
edited /events/2011 (+30) "see also 2012"
(view diff)
#
barnabywalters
mainly for styling reasons
#
tantek.com
created /events/2012 (+2910) "archive 2012 events"
(view diff)
#
barnabywalters
there are a small subset of things I write which I want styled like things in /articles, but most of the rest of the time I just want blog posts to look like notes with names
#
tantek.com
edited /Events () "(-2823) archive 2011-2012 events to their own pages. keep 2013 for context / recency."
(view diff)
#
snarfed
tantek: great homework assignment!
#
snarfed
not as easy as it sounds, but worthwhile
#
tantek
snarfed - exactly. and bringing just one noobie would do a lot. I think everyone who came last night had been before (in SF at least)
#
tantek
snarfed - and for you - could you add the venue to the Upcoming event? http://indiewebcamp.com/Events#Upcoming
#
aaronpk
we had 3 newbies in pdx :)
#
snarfed
there may have been one or two SF newbs last night, scott and another red haired guy, but in generaly you're right
#
tantek
aaronpk - well done!!
#
snarfed
sure! i'll add the venue and create event pages soon
#
tantek
I think Scott has been before
#
tantek
snarfed awesome - yeah we have a link to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club but it's not there yet
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tantek
aaronpk - it's a small step, but I archived the 2011-2012 events to separate pages to shorten the events page a bit
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tantek
2013 was obviously a big year
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snarfed.org
edited /Events (+56) "next HWC is at Quip!"
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aaronpk
oh weird I got disconnected
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aaronpk
tantek: what do you think about a calagator install on events.indiewebcamp.com soon? (calagator has microformats 2 now thanks to reid merging my pull request!)
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snarfed.org
edited /Events (+8) "/* Upcoming */"
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tantek
aaronpk - that's great that calagator has uf2 support now!
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tantek
does it accept webmentions?
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tantek
I'd almost rather go the path of people posting events to their own sites that can receive webmentions
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aaronpk
it doens't, but I'm tempted to make it accept webmentions
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tantek
I'd say that should be a prerequisite for installing on indiewebcamp.com
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tantek
because we'd talked about that at IWC2013
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aaronpk
well the wiki doesn't accept webmentions either ;)
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aaronpk
but yeah I could add webmention support to calagator
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tantek
right, it has to be an improvement
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tantek
otherwise it's not worth the switching cost
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aaronpk
the improvement would be being able to add events easier!
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tantek
but limited in ability
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aaronpk
but the wiki already doesn't accept webmentions
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tantek
the wiki pages for events work well because we can add notes photos MUCH easier
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tantek
which is FAR more important than the act of creating events
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aaronpk
we could still make a wiki page for each event to collect notes andp hotos
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tantek
always be sure you're optimizing for the right ease of use
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tantek
I see it the other way around
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tantek
we could make a separate RSVP page to collect RSVPs
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tantek
as in, the events.indiewebcamp "pages" would just be RSVP pages
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tantek
the wiki page for the event is far more useful for *everything* after the creationg/rsvp steps
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tantek
for notes, photos, and also for *reference*
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tantek
in the future, we (including search engines) reference the event page WAY MORE than time spent creating/rsvping
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tantek
more frequently etc.
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aaronpk
so really the event wiki page should point to a webmention endpoint that understands RSVPs so that it's totally seamless
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tantek
so that's the dominant use case
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tantek
that would be ideal!
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aaronpk
and there wouldn't even be a different HTML representation of the event
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tantek
even better
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aaronpk
which means I should add RSVP parsing to webmention.io
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aaronpk
the question would then be how to display RSVPs on the wiki pages. would a javascript widget be ok?
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aaronpk
the RSVPs wouldn't end up in the HTML, but maybe that's ok
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tantek
let's at least start with that
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aaronpk
shorter path to success at least
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tantek.com
edited /events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club (+153) "/* San Francisco */ add photo"
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tantek.com
edited /events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club (+26) "/* RSVP */ missed Matthew"
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tantek.com
edited /events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club (+112) "/* Notes */ blog posts before the meeting"
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@_KarlFisher
RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @mathpunk: I want my website to be at least as useful as paper - I can tell my mood from handwriting and sketchin…
(twitter.com/_/status/423892029710827520)
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@npm_tweets
webmention-testpinger 0.2.5 https://npmjs.org/package/webmention-testpinger A tool to ping your site with a variety of webmention markup
(twitter.com/_/status/423893469896007680)
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snarfed.org
edited /Bridgy (+966) "examples!"
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snarfed
tantek, ask and ye shall receive :P
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snarfed
i don't think that's comprehensive, btw, but probably enough for now
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@_MartinShawn
RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @mathpunk: I want my website to be at least as useful as paper - I can tell my mood from handwriting and sketchin…
(twitter.com/_/status/423903323415392256)
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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j12t
Changing my handle from jernst to j12t ... occasional namespace conflict on freenode has become too annoying.
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snarfed
i like it!
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@MaryFletcherr
RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @snarfed_org: people were driven to snapchat by a pain - because they were scared of persistence of data
(twitter.com/_/status/423924306155151360)
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@MaryFletcherr
RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb Scott: The indieweb Why page is mostly based on fear - you look like survivalists or a militia
(twitter.com/_/status/423931076537769984)
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bret.io
edited /events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club (+0) "/* Portland P2P Section */ Fixed highlight.pl link"
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@Mattt_Richards
RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @t: Thousands mean we have made things easy enough for anyone skilled in the craft to implement. You can't shut d…
(twitter.com/_/status/423932782394769408)
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j12t
Following up on last night: will there be more IndieWeb code bases than Linux distros or less?
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@_OliviaJenkins
RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @Johannes_Ernst: If we're going to get to thousands, we are going to need marketing, much as I hate it
(twitter.com/_/status/423934307259133953)
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bear
more IMO
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@_OliviaJenkins
RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb problems of caonicalising what you have read - see SG nodemapper https://code.google.com/p/google-sgnodemapper/
(twitter.com/_/status/423951019585052672)
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@_NeilBanks_
RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @mathpunk: I want my website to be at least as useful as paper - I can tell my mood from handwriting and sketchin…
(twitter.com/_/status/423952134795984896)
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@Marion_Jensen
RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @Johannes_Ernst: If we're going to get to thousands, we are going to need marketing, much as I hate it
(twitter.com/_/status/423955301508063233)
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acegiak
well the sms verification thing for indieauth is just about the coolest thing
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snarfed
cool! i haven't looked at it yet. is it 2-factor? or just another auth provider?
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aaronpk
just another auth provider
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aaronpk
you put your SMS number on your website, then you get an SMS with a code you enter into indieauth.com when logging in
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acegiak.machinespirit.net
edited /repost (-1) "/* Tumblr */ fixed spelling error in link"
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acegiak
it's still super cool
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aaronpk
i'm glad you like it :)
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aaronpk
great for signing in to stuff from computers that are not your own
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tantek
snarfed - awesome examples!
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snarfed
glad to help!
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aaronpk
j12t: bear: yes, many more, because the barrier to entry to getting on the indieweb is far lower than creating an operating system
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tantek
adding subheads for each person
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snarfed
aaronpk: exactly
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tantek
agreed.
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snarfed
to be fair, making a linux distro is itself way less work than actually *writing* an OS, but still, agreed
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tantek
thousands
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tantek
have we ever seen Barry Frost in here? or is he just off independently doing his own awesome thing
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snarfed
good question!
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snarfed
his site was the first i found (organically) that explicitly claimed to support u-like and u-repost webmentions
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snarfed
(i *think* it was him and not sandeep.)
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tantek
yeah I think he just found sandeep's post, then the indiewebcamp site, and then started coding
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tantek
he's doing great work
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tantek.com
edited /Bridgy (+223) "start making subheads"
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snarfed
btw tantek, bridgy has fragments for each account that auto-open their recent responses, e.g. https://www.brid.gy/#twitter-t , feel free to link to those
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snarfed
or i can :P