#indiewebcamp 2014-02-01

2014-02-01 UTC
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jeena.net edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+110) "/* 2014 */ added jeena.net/indieweb" (view diff)
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aaronpk Jeena: now you can never write a post about the indieweb again, since you just used your "/indieweb" slug for that :)
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Jeena /indieweb-2 ha!
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tantek for that matter, that's a pretty good use of that slug.
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tantek .0
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tantek ;)
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Jeena hehe
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aaronpk true
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@KiwiMovers Check out our new video on getting a survey when moving home luke@indieweb.co.nz (twitter.com/_/status/429419349447675904)
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EHLOVader I feel like my znc either ate some of the log here, or I missed something on my other laptop before I headed home.
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aaronpk there's always https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/today
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EHLOVader oh yeah
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EHLOVader Jeena, reading your post, thanks, I somehow missed indiewebify.me when looking into this
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EHLOVader question on the notes.. is there any case where it isn't just your notes shown on your list?
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EHLOVader or any time when they are mixed with others.. anyone else might know the answer to this too
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EHLOVader I just was curious, it was kinda odd having an avatar on each one if they will all be you
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Jeena yeah it should be the starting point for everybody who wants to indiewebify their website
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Jeena the index page only shows my notes
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EHLOVader k
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EHLOVader did you make indiewebify.me?
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Jeena bug if you go to the fullpost of a note then you can see the webmentions
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Jeena no it isn't my work
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Jeena like here https://jeena.net/notes/43
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EHLOVader ok
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Jeena but the UI of the index page is not that great because people don't know that you can click on the date to get to the full page
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Jeena but yeah I understand the weirdness of a list with only my avatars on it, but I haven't found a better UI yet
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EHLOVader neat
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EHLOVader what theme did you use? I was looking for layouts too
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EHLOVader most of it relies on infrastructure behind the scenes and the markup right?
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EHLOVader so anything could be indiefied
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EHLOVader but not much is
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Jeena uhm no theme it is just a rails app I wrote
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EHLOVader ok
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EHLOVader oh, I see
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EHLOVader are you using anything as a baseline? h5bp, twbs, foundation, etc
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EHLOVader I think I will get a short url
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EHLOVader my name and handle doesn't favor any reliable short tlds
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Jeena I use the microformats2 gem to parse HTML but otherwise no, I just wrote what I needed
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Jeena I had the domain jeenaparadies.net for years but then I got jeena.net which was much shorter
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Jeena and I made a short url redirection from jeena.net/n123 to jeena.net/notes/123 to get it even shorter
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EHLOVader nice
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EHLOVader jee.na is available
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EHLOVader but not sure on that trustworthiness
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Jeena oh hehe, that would be almost cool :D
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EHLOVader looking at one for my blog name and it is in morocco I think
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EHLOVader http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.ma
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EHLOVader haven't heard anything bad, but these other countries, they could take back domains, or cancel them
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EHLOVader .na is nambia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.na
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EHLOVader some of these require a person in the country too
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Jeena true
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EHLOVader whoa
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EHLOVader 4,999.00 USD
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EHLOVader they are expensive
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EHLOVader I don't think that will be worth it for you
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Jeena omg ^^
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EHLOVader my .ma is only $70
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EHLOVader may be worth it if i start blogging
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EHLOVader my personal one, closest I could get is $15
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EHLOVader it is a .co
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EHLOVader do .io domains link?
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EHLOVader ouch, they are expensive.. but I can get my new email and maybe public handle .io
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EHLOVader j4h.r8n.io would be neat maybe shorten to r8n.io for certain places
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EHLOVader whoa, all of the i18n domains for various family surnames in my extended family are avaialble
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EHLOVader were there any indieweb things for families, communication, the caldavs etc
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EHLOVader I guess the question would be for private group federation of data
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EHLOVader ooh, does indieauth or websites using it use reverse dns to initiate sso proactively
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EHLOVader or could it
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EHLOVader eh, that may not be too helpful
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EHLOVader browser headers and a plugin though
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EHLOVader does the indieweb movement have any call to action hashtags worth using?
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EHLOVader ownyourweb, ownyourcontent, ownyourdata, ownyoursilo
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EHLOVader something like that
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EHLOVader ownyourweb?
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@EHLOVader #MyOpenID closes tomorrow. If any sites or users need an alternative to @openid Check out https://indieauth.com/ #ownyourweb #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/429434992981069824)
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EHLOVader going with it
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EHLOVader exactly 140 chars too
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EHLOVader http://youtu.be/syR_NinJ2B0 @1:08
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KevinMarks #indieweb rather than #indiewebcamp works too
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KevinMarks so, could www.noterlive.com post to aaronpk's site?
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EHLOVader I totally read that not re-live
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EHLOVader is latvia a safe tld country
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EHLOVader https://domai.nr/ntrlv/with/ntr.lv
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EHLOVader did you have example range of time you used that site to tweet KevinMarks?
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KevinMarks what do you mean?
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gRegorLove EHLOVader: that myopenid tweet comment reminded me to re-visit my claimid.com. They've closed too.
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KevinMarks I have some note post archives at kevinmarks.com
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EHLOVader oh
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EHLOVader hmm
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EHLOVader I moved to stackexchange for the site. at least myopenid listed the sites I had used
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KevinMarks why do I want a short URL?
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EHLOVader it seems interesting...
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EHLOVader not sure
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Loqi gives KevinMarks a short URL
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EHLOVader how generous loqi
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Loqi is done
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KevinMarks It took a bit of fiddling about to come up with noterlive, as livenoter etc were gone
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EHLOVader so does it use the blog url for links? cross posting?
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EHLOVader what do you mean loqi? do I not get a short url too?
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KevinMarks Not yet, it makes an HTML blob in a field to copy and paste
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EHLOVader I am looking into ways to automate name choices and creation like that
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EHLOVader ways that are a bit more organic, like actually thinking of it
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EHLOVader I have a domain that would suit it, I have a handful of domains that would suit a purpose but I haven't completed them
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KevinMarks but posting a) the notes to your indeiweb site as well as twitter
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KevinMarks and b) the resulting post to a blog or indieweb site
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gRegorLove Domai.nr is awesome. Thanks EHLOVader
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KevinMarks seem like a good thing to extend it to do
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gRegorLove Might be buying another short URL, heh
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EHLOVader that is nice, so how does it handle the indieweb site?
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EHLOVader lol, yeah, domai.nr does a good job of finding some short names, dropping letters you might not have thought of
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EHLOVader I was going to find a spot to put it into the indieweb wiki
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EHLOVader probably not the ccTLD page, but linking to it from there
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KevinMarks so far, by you copying the combined notes from a text field, giving something like: http://www.kevinmarks.com/mvclaunch.html
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EHLOVader oh
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EHLOVader ooh, KevinMarks brilliant idea in my head... a site lists speakers at an event in order. with microformats identifying them...
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EHLOVader allowing you to change to the next speaker by schedule
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EHLOVader if you tie it to an event...
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KevinMarks yes, I was thinking that too - currently I pull from a twitter handle
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KevinMarks and make speaker buttons
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EHLOVader yeah
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EHLOVader based on time maybe too
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KevinMarks but pulling hCards from a URL would be better
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KevinMarks as I am getting full name and URL from twitter, which is not always ideal
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EHLOVader i assume it actually requires a lot of attention from you, to manage it, but maybe also a feed of event tags
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KevinMarks well, this was automating something I already did
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EHLOVader if it wouldn't be too distracting from the actual typing
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EHLOVader yeah
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KevinMarks the '#indiewebcamp @aaronpk: wise statement' tweet format
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KevinMarks for live-tweeting events
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EHLOVader the thing I thought of in the recent past which would have a schedule and might be nice to see live is shmoocon
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EHLOVader it complicates things though, first day is one track, but the next two there are three tracks so three rooms with different speakers at different times
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KevinMarks yeah, really you want a page per session
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KevinMarks as they usually have the full speaker bios with URLs in
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EHLOVader yeah
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KevinMarks lanyrd is probably the best thing to scrape
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EHLOVader hmm, you mean that output you gave? from the end
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EHLOVader maybe if that could be posted, when switching speakers.. or a switch session button
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KevinMarks no, i mean to scrape
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EHLOVader but yeah, i could see how that would be ideal to isolate it
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EHLOVader oh, uhm, not sure I understand
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EHLOVader for the names, and hcards?
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KevinMarks yes
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KevinMarks and twitter handles and websites
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KevinMarks hm lanyrd seems to have lost most of its microformats
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EHLOVader what would you say is probably the most mature backend/hosted web app for indieweb?
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EHLOVader falcon looks promising, and isn't really surprising if it were the most mature/feature complete
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EHLOVader but it is private right? is cassis as feature complete?
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snarfed EHLOVader: i assume you've looked at idno and p3k?
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snarfed and a number of us actually use wordpress. with the right plugins, it's very indieweb friendly, and has a massive developer community, which obviously helps
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EHLOVader I actually saw those shortly after seeing the long list of things falcon could do, and then that I could have none of it
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EHLOVader nice
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snarfed you're looking on the wiki?
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EHLOVader it all requires running server software? or can it be run in a static capacity like with jekyll and services?
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EHLOVader yeah
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snarfed tantek's the most prolific there, so falcon's probably overrepresented there
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EHLOVader lol
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EHLOVader he sold the world
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EHLOVader then took it all back for himself
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snarfed heh
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EHLOVader if it helps this is where my personal blogging in the future might be in the midst of
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snarfed good to hear!
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EHLOVader https://github.com/al3x/sovereign
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tantek EHLOVader, just mapping out the space as best/fast as I can, coding is a bit, "rushed", you might say.
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EHLOVader I would only really need microblogging probably, sharing links, pictures, videos, notes, replies etc
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EHLOVader articles would come in last, they take time and planning
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tantek others have implemented similar features with much better code. e.g. p3k, idno, and WP plugins
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EHLOVader thanks tantek
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tantek EHLOVader, just focus on building the very next thing you want for your site
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tantek once you've built that, you'll find that it will reset your priorities
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tantek your experience with using just one more new capability on your site will greatly inform what you need next
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tantek then iterate
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snarfed good advice
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tantek "microblogging" - e.g. posting notes, is what a lot (most) of us started with
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EHLOVader yeah
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tantek and we've all taken slightly different implementation paths from there, often intersecting, but all with slightly different orderings
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EHLOVader I am most interested in the sovereign, so far it doesn't have a dedicated blogging system tied to it
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EHLOVader but it does have php and I would be most comfortable with that
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tantek a lot of us here use PHP
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EHLOVader it uses postgre but some other things I might like prefer mysql
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EHLOVader I may tear sovereign apart, rebuild it from not much more than the inspiration
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EHLOVader would like to see nginx instead of apache (both cause of my interests in learning it, and it should be a smaller footprint)
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EHLOVader scares me having all of that on the same server though, may enable selinux, and add extra IPS measures
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EHLOVader single point of failure, but it did have security in mind I think.
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EHLOVader how many of you are on macs? *nix? or windows?
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EHLOVader curious what kind of systems the people in indieweb community are using most often.
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snarfed server side, i expect mostly *nix
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snarfed my site is on freebsd
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snarfed most of my app development is on app engine
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snarfed regardles
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snarfed …er, regardless, tantek has the best advice. pick the single piece of functionality you want most right now, do the minimum you need to get it working in your current setup, and iterate
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snarfed step back and evaluate now and then, definitely, but ideally let the functionality drive
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EHLOVader idno looks nice
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EHLOVader mongodb though, is that because of the frontend? backend appears to be php do those two usually go together?
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EHLOVader p3k looks interesting too, the extent of information
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EHLOVader even simpler
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EHLOVader so I guess in the vein of pleaserob.me what are the indieweb thoughts on location sharing? is there a way to limit it to people based on any special authentication?
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EHLOVader snarfed, what have you tried to use for the reshares of posts?
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EHLOVader in facebook
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EHLOVader http://graph.facebook.com/OBJECT_ID/sharedposts should work right?
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EHLOVader needs auth, but it should get it
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EHLOVader re: bridgy sorry
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EHLOVader http://stackoverflow.com/a/7707702/704765 also may be useful for shares likes comments totals etc etc
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EHLOVader Also is your sni ssl on bridgy because the cost of a multi domain ssl?
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EHLOVader more on it from SO, using graph and chaining the queries http://stackoverflow.com/a/17533380/704765
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snarfed sorry, back
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snarfed yeah, bridgy uses SNI because of cost. SNI on app engine is cheaper than a VIP
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snarfed and i haven't yet found a way to get reshares from fb's api
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snarfed i couldn't get sharedposts to work, even with the read_stream oauth scope
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snarfed that SO post is a great lead!
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snarfed hmm, on second thought, i'd seen it. i'm actually 'ryan' in the last comment on it :P
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snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/activitystreams-unofficial/blob/master/facebook.py#L132
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snarfed (EHLOVader)
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EHLOVader I see, so it is kind of a restriction on the app engine side more than yours
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EHLOVader I wasn't sure how it worked since it was technically a shared host
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EHLOVader you would have to pay for your own IP or something?
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EHLOVader haha
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snarfed yup. that's true of hosting in general
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EHLOVader well maybe you could read the leaked infor
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snarfed IPs cost money
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EHLOVader there was a so that mentioned an ajax call for their static js
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snarfed eh
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EHLOVader uber hacky
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snarfed yeah, i start to lose interest when it moves from apis to hacks
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EHLOVader why is it a service of a third party site btw? curious... because you are then monitoring all of the users posts right?
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EHLOVader or is there an api feed for recent changes in all the things
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snarfed why is bridgy a service?
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snarfed as opposed to a library?
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snarfed and yeah, it uses api endpoints for recent posts
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snarfed polling all posts for all users wouldn't really scale
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EHLOVader yeah i didn't think so
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EHLOVader and yeah, why a library instead of just the users responsibility on their site
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EHLOVader I guess api keys would become a possible barrier, they have to have an app id right?
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snarfed eh, yeah, but registering apps is easy enough
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snarfed it's a service for all the usual reasons
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snarfed language independent, centralize the admin, easy to push updates, etc
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snarfed there are other backfeed implementations that integrate into servers
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snarfed mostly wp plugins. http://indiewebcamp.com/backfeed#Server_Implementations
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indiewebcamp-vis hello
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@mrmzholland RT @EHLOVader: #MyOpenID closes tomorrow. If any sites or users need an alternative to @openid Check out https://indieauth.com/ #ownyourwe… (twitter.com/_/status/429498301239799808)
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EHLOVader hello
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indiewebcamp-vis hi EHLOVader.
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indiewebcamp-vis i'm trying to sort out indieauth etc on my site. i'm not really a coder so it's a slow process! i have at least got webmentions sorted
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EHLOVader I am not sure I can help you much, but you need indieauth to work using your site to authenticate? or to authenticate to your site with indie auth...
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EHLOVader sounds like the latter
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indiewebcamp-vis i've been trying to log into a site to comment... takes me to the indieauth page and i click on the thing to start teh process (using app.net as my provider) but it just drops me in example.com
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EHLOVader oh
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EHLOVader http://indiewebify.me/
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indiewebcamp-vis ah OK i think i've worked it out. i've logged in to the indie web camp site with my url. i think the site i was trying was just not set up quite right
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EHLOVader that may help, I think it will troubleshoot it with you
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EHLOVader oh, that is no good
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EHLOVader there is a redirect involved at some point
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EHLOVader I haven't looked into the using indieauth as a provider side of things.. I wonder if it is the site owners responsibility to post their website to the service
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indiewebcamp-vis thanks for your help, indiewebify.me looks good, and i've just verified all is good at my end. much appreciated :)
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EHLOVader np
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@mrmzholland oh damn. lost me at 'clone the repo' #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/429507153615802368)
squeakytoy, KartikPrabhu, eschnou, pfenwick, tantek, bnvk, LauraJ, natwelch, wagle, squeakytoy2, jjuran, sdboyer, poppy, zaal, pdurbin, CheckDavid, friedcell, scor, pasevin, glennjones, bnvk_, snarfed and Zegnat joined the channel
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@fdevillamil Publify editor changes from March 2013 and today. #indieweb. https://github.com/fdv/publify/ http://t37.net/typo-editor-new.png http://t37.net/publify-editor-even-newer.png (twitter.com/_/status/429643165352873984)
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neuro` Good morning tantek
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neuro` Indie webers
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tantek Good morning neuro`!
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tantek and #indiewebcamp :)
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neuro` How's your side of the world going?
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tantek pretty good. I have a race tomorrow so I'm taking it easy today.
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neuro` How many miles?
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tantek 13.1mi / 21.1k
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neuro` Half a marathon?
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tantek yes
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neuro` That's the begining of serious races.
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tantek heh - I think that's about the farthest I want to do.
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neuro` That's already a lot.
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@eschnou Mailpile announced alpha release! Great to see the progress, awesome work! https://fosdem.org/2014/schedule/event/mailpile/ #FOSDEM #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/429652594815172608)
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@Lucky_Raf RT @eschnou: Mailpile announced alpha release! Great to see the progress, awesome work! https://fosdem.org/2014/schedule/event/mailpile/ #FOSDEM #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/429653320496857089)
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@_hamzux_ RT @eschnou: Mailpile announced alpha release! Great to see the progress, awesome work! https://fosdem.org/2014/schedule/event/mailpile/ #FOSDEM #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/429653501212639232)
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@mmaudet RT @eschnou: Mailpile announced alpha release! Great to see the progress, awesome work! https://fosdem.org/2014/schedule/event/mailpile/ #FOSDEM #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/429655631994568704)
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@HelinaT RT @eschnou: Mailpile announced alpha release! Great to see the progress, awesome work! https://fosdem.org/2014/schedule/event/mailpile/ #FOSDEM #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/429655939172810753)
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tantek nice! congrats bnvk!
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tantek (any other mailpilers in the channel?)
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bnvk tantek: thanks :)
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bnvk mmm, no other mailpilers in here!
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gRegorLove Question about dates in microformats: If no UTC offset is specified, should we assume it's UTC?
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@ShaneHudson @aaronpk @caseorganic @t Are there any plans for another UK Indie Web Camp? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/429667281166401537)
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gRegorLove I ask because I would like to store the UTC published/updated times when parsing webmentions.
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tantek gRegorLove - without timezone offset, it's a called a "floating time", which means the same time in every timezone, e.g. like an alarm clock that's set at 6:00
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tantek to wake you up at 6:00 in whatever timezone you're in
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gRegorLove Hmm. I see
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tantek so in the case of webmentions, or I presume you mean h-entry dt-published, that's trickier - because obviously the publication happened at a specific absolute time
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tantek there are some heuristics you can do to determine what timezone the publisher/publication is in
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gRegorLove Correct. I'm parsing dt-published fields.
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tantek e.g. checking for location information
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gRegorLove Location information in a microformat?
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tantek in the h-entry in particular
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tantek there's a wiki page about how barnaby and others are posting their location information
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tantek aaronpk may have some ideas too
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gRegorLove Ok, thanks.
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tantek I *think* it might just be in a p-location
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tantek which itself may have an h-geo h-adr or h-card
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gRegorLove Yeah, I noticed werd.io is publishing the offset, but you're not, tantek. Do you use location information?
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tantek gRegorLove - yeah that's my bad I should be publishing offset.
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tantek FWIW it's Pacific Time zone - so I need to go back and add code to cleanup the data for DST
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gRegorLove I think for now I will store a flag indicating whether or not the datetime had an offset. I can go back later and figure out a solution.
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tantek that sounds like a very good idea
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@genehack @vanderwal I was told IndieAuth supported OpenID ... (twitter.com/_/status/429679445826211840)
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@genehack @vanderwal Does http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2013/09/15/1/indieauth-now-supports-openid-delegation help? (twitter.com/_/status/429681347104231424)
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brennannovak.com created /mobile (+422) "Created page with "As per Tantek's post ["Toward A People Focused Mobile Communication Experience"](http://tantek.com/2013/338/b1/people-focused-mobile-communication-experience) we may want to hook..."" (view diff)
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brennannovak.com edited /mobile (+4) (view diff)
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Jeena !tell tantek jesus christ tantek, you should make your titles shorter in your feed https://jeena.net/s/tantek-title-feed.png
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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@aaronpk Today is the last day of http://t.co/SObfy0d55w. Luckily https://indieauth.com/ can be used as a replacement! Guide: http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2013/09/15/1/indieauth-now-supports-openid-delegation (twitter.com/_/status/429757886953033728)
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aaronpk i really need a logo for indieauth.com
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@jalbertbowdenii RT @aaronpk: Today is the last day of http://t.co/SObfy0d55w. Luckily https://indieauth.com/ can be used as a replacement! Guide: http://t.… (twitter.com/_/status/429758188372500482)
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Jeena I'm happy I moed to http://clavid.com/ months ago but in the long run I will need to be my own provider
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Jeena s/moed/moved
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Loqi Jeena meant to say: I'm happy I moved to http://clavid.com/ months ago but in the long run I will need to be my own provider
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Jeena what are you guys using indieauth for on your own websites yet?
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aaronpk i don't understand the question
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Jeena I think I saw a couple of you letting people like me to log in on your website, but why whould I want to log in on one of your websites? (I understand the need on the indiewebcamp wiki, but not on personal websites)
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aaronpk ah
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aaronpk private posts
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aaronpk i've created a couple notes that are only visible to certain people if they log in
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Jeena ah I see, interesting
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aaronpk like when I was going over to the MozSF office to meet tantek, I made a post that showed a map of where I was, and he could see it if he logged in
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Jeena neat
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@anselm RT @aaronpk: Today is the last day of http://t.co/SObfy0d55w. Luckily https://indieauth.com/ can be used as a replacement! Guide: http://t.… (twitter.com/_/status/429760099549061120)
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@vrypan RT @aaronpk: Today is the last day of http://t.co/SObfy0d55w. Luckily https://indieauth.com/ can be used as a replacement! Guide: http://t.… (twitter.com/_/status/429762171271401472)
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@vrypan https://indieauth.com/ is simple, brilliant and works like a charm. Read @aaronpk's: guide: http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2013/09/15/1/indieauth-now-supports-openid-delegation (twitter.com/_/status/429763264386723841)
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wagle who was the guy from mozilla at the meeting last week?
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aaronpk dietrick?
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aaronpk dietrich*
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wagle maybe.. no user page for him
julio joined the channel
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dietrich i have a user page. it's my domain name. which isn't my real life name. which becomes confusing.
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aaronpk add yourself to irc-people?
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people