#indiewebcamp 2014-02-12

2014-02-12 UTC
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KartikPrabhu did not understand the "a round tuit" joke for the longest time
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@Noleli @allspiritseve I need to look at this from not-a-phone, but… MT @mcburton: Nice post by @jeena about #indieweb https://jeena.net/indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/433395369938931712)
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@allspiritseve RT @Noleli: @allspiritseve I need to look at this from not-a-phone, but… MT @mcburton: Nice post by @jeena about #indieweb http://t.co/9p1… (twitter.com/_/status/433395572792254464)
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Jeena hm bridgy seems to send wrong people if they repost? https://jeena.net/indieweb#comments (scroll down)
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aaronpk whoa lots of duplicates too
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aaronpk what are the wrong people?
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snarfed wrong people!
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snarfed ruh roh
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snarfed looking
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snarfed the dupes should all have the same uid
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snarfed Jeena, if you point me at an example of a wrong person, i can try to debug
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Jeena I don't think I look at the UID, only at the source URL
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aaronpk should also be the same, right?
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Jeena Sadly I don't quite have the time to debug right now :-(
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snarfed Jeena: np! no hurry. sorry for the trouble
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snarfed happy to help whenever you do have time
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gRegor` Jeena: I just read your post. I haven't kept up with Tent.io in months
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gRegor` what happened with them and their community?
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@AdamFeldman RT @Noleli: @allspiritseve I need to look at this from not-a-phone, but… MT @mcburton: Nice post by @jeena about #indieweb http://t.co/9p1… (twitter.com/_/status/433399905701212160)
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@nxD4n could #webmention , indieauth used to send encrypted message from one domain to other? Any ideas? /cc @pfefferle http://nxd4n.nixekinder.be/?p=3300 (twitter.com/_/status/433401085890293760)
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gRegor` Does Loqi just pick up "indieweb" on twitter, or does it have to be the hashtag?
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aaronpk i don't think it needs to be a hashtag
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@gRegorLove New post: Powered by Indieweb http://gregorlove.com/2014/02/1180/ (twitter.com/_/status/433411368243310592)
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aaronpk now we know
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gRegor` Dang, that was fast. :)
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aaronpk it's a streaming API search :)
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gRegor` Nice
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tantek just mentions, including inside URLs
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tantek.com edited /site-deaths (+196) "/* 2013 */ ClaimID ceased operations" (view diff)
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@AnonHiskia Sign-up page is up for the next week's Homebrew Website Club meetup @MozSF & @ESRIPDX: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-02-12-homebrew-website-club … (ttk.me t4US1) (twitter.com/_/status/433448036790857728)
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@AnonHiskia much #IndieWeb Bridgy & #IndieAuth progress! Come to 6:30pm Homebrew Website Club in SF & Portland TONIGHT: http://tantek.com/2014/029/t1/indieweb-progress-bridgy-indieauth-homebrew-tonight (twitter.com/_/status/433448090050101248)
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@gRegorLove @starvfilmcritic You're on @Squarespace, right? Should see if they'll implement webmention. (twitter.com/_/status/433465821126332416)
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@caseorganic @smc90 See http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/02/11/7/#comments @microformats https://www.brid.gy/ allow your comment to show on my... #indieweb http://caseorganic.com/replies/2014/02/11/7/comments-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/433465993482887169)
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benjaminchait.net edited /events/2014-02-12-homebrew-website-club (+92) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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caseorganic.com edited /events/2014-02-12-homebrew-website-club (+80) "/* RSVP */ Added Amber Case RSVP to Portland event" (view diff)
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caseorganic.com edited /events/2014-02-12-homebrew-website-club (+246) "/* Blog posts */" (view diff)
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caseorganic.com edited /User:Caseorganic.com (+578) "/* Amber Case */ Added updated talks and talk links" (view diff)
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aaronpk snarfed: lol, was reading your paperless office article, got half way through, clicked a link, got distracted by something else, went back to your post to pick up where I left off. First words I read: "Not many people have attention spans that long"
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snarfed haha, love it
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aaronpk Good post too
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aaronpk pfenwick: saw your cool signup to get travel alerts thing! So cool!
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snarfed thanks!
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pfenwick aaronpk: Thanks! There's still a Simple Matter Of Code that I need to write to stick onto the back of it, but all that's required there is a twilio end-point for exobrain (about 20 lines of code), and a connector (about another 20 lines). I'm hoping I can do that at the airport. :)
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aaronpk Haha awesome.
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pfenwick aaronpk: You'll know when it's working because you'll start getting notifications of my movements to your phone. :)
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aaronpk Nice
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aaronpk pfenwick: I've been wanting to do this kind of thing too ever since Dopplr disappeared!
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aaronpk Do you consider this information public? i.e. would you publish your travel plans on your own website?
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pfenwick aaronpk: "Not exactly private, not exactly public." So things like "I'll be in $city on $date" is reasonably public, whereas "I'm at SE Grind working on my slides at 2am" is a little more private.
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pfenwick Having said that, if I want to go somewhere and not receive attention, then it tends to be private. But I miss dopplr too, I loved it.
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aaronpk Cool. So your macro view is public?
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pfenwick aaronpk: Unless I have a reason to make it otherwise. To an extent my lifestyle depends upon people knowing where I'll be.
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aaronpk Your FB post of cities and dates is great. I'm super interested in what that would look like on your own site, I'm trying to find time to publish my next set of travel in a way that is actionable to people!
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Jeena It happened what I was preparing for for so long, someone webmentioned a normal article of mine wit a article of his own, not with a note https://jeena.net/indie-notes-reader#comments so hm my website handled it ok but not great, will need to improve on that.
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cweiske why do you have the font size that large?
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cweiske I have to zoom out to be able to read it properly
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Jeena because I am 35 and old people like me tend to go blind
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cweiske can't you rely on the browser's default font size?
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Jeena hm which font do you see in your browser?
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cweiske http://fotos.cweiske.de/screenshots/2014-02-12%20indie%20notes%20large%20text.png
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Jeena http://jeena.net/s/latest.png is how it looks with Gill Sans, which is much thinner, hm need to fix it in some way, thanks for mentioning it
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cweiske I don't set a font size on my blog
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cweiske and thus use the browser's default size
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cweiske so people simply can customize their browser and have a larger text on my blog
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KartikPrabhu Jeena: I love the font size! Maybe I read from further away from the screen than most people
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KartikPrabhu in fact I usually have to zoom-in to most websites
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cweiske KartikPrabhu, increase your browser's default font size
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KartikPrabhu cweiske: I know but then all the folks who have nice font-size set like Jeena looken too big! I like the website author to decide.
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cweiske the website author should decide that you need a bigger font size?
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KartikPrabhu They can decide whatever they want it to be. I'll adjust it depending on what I'm reading.
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cweiske i'd rather have my browser automatically size the font sizes to my liking
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KartikPrabhu hmm that would be an interesting poll
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KartikPrabhu actually here is an indieweb question: Has anyone setup an indieweb poll system, where people can vote using indieauth or their own website via mentions?
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tantek KartikPrabhu - you can essentially do that with news.indiewebcamp.com
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KartikPrabhu looks that up!
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tantek you can post articles there via webmention, and then vote up/down via any indieauth sign-in
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KartikPrabhu how do you vote down? I only see the up arrow on sigin
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tantek oh maybe you can only vote up
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KartikPrabhu nonetheless that is another swell thing I didn't know about!
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KartikPrabhu now I am quite interested in a poll system with graphs and all that that works with indieauth! Maybe after I get other indie-stuff working! Damn my indie-to-do-list is getting long
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Jihaisse Hello
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KartikPrabhu hi Jihaisse
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@tobiastom @jkphl Jabber. #indieweb! :) (twitter.com/_/status/433592963714007040)
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Jeena gRegor` I had to leave the community because they broke the possibility to host your own server with a update and when I asked half a year later when it will be possible again to self host under your own domain, etc. they said that this is not a priority for them. Today, soon a year later I still can not self host under my domain because of bugs in the protocoll and their server software https://github.com/cupcake/bugs/issues/31
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Jeena cweiske, where does one set the default font size in Firefox? Ah, Perferences -> Content -> Fonts & Colors -> Size, I see hm.
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Jeena Hm, is there _any_ website which changes its font size according to my font size default setting? I went through my 20 open tabs and only 2 changed the font size, but then only in one part of the website so it looked rediciolous :-/
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cweiske probably not many, because their designers want full control
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Jeena :-/ here is another which resizes all text but doesn't the background of the header so it is white on white
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Jeena stackoverflow does it like it should be done
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@tobiastom Maybe there is hope for the #indieweb. @jkphl is installing his own jabber server and there was no convincing needed. None at all! :) (twitter.com/_/status/433597978100903936)
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Jeena hehe
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ehlovader Jeena, you might be able to change your fonts using zoom: don't think you can do that globally
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ehlovader but you can per site
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ehlovader and like cweiske said, most designers, themes etc.. they aren't using ems
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ehlovader even the ones that are using ems tend to set the font size on the body,html
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Jeena I've been using em for ages, but then since every browser impmented zoom in the right way I stopped.
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cweiske em, ex and rem is still the right way in my eyes
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cweiske especially rem
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ehlovader oh
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Jeena my old website would work like a charm for cweiske http://jeenaparadies.net/
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ehlovader hmm
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tobiastom Jeena: what are you using today?
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ehlovader so Jeena that cupcake...
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ehlovader can you not host it? or just that there are serious issues with hosting it
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Jeena tobiastom px somewhere
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ehlovader because if they are the only ones who can host it succesfully then it isn't very decentralized like their mission statement suggests.
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Jeena ehlovader I can host it if I use a new domain, because mine is already in the database of the other users and I cant get them to refollow me (not automatically and not manually) and I can not follow them (not manually and not automatically)
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ehlovader oh
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ehlovader er eww
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ehlovader so that is tent though?
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ehlovader that you host?
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Jeena yes
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Jeena or perhaps
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ehlovader or tent is only important if you go and write your own cupcatke
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ehlovader hmm, interesting... and that sucks, so they get tokens or something?
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ehlovader and you can't invalidate them
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ehlovader even if you are on your same domain?
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Jeena it is like email, most of the people are using some provider and their clients, many of them use 3rd party clients (like Mail.app or Thunderbird) and some host their own (mail/tent) server.
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Jeena ehlovader exactly, even if I own the domain there is no way for me to invalidate this subscriptions
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Jeena in my eyes it is a protocol flaw, they said that this is a security feature.
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ehlovader orly
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ehlovader haha
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Jeena and that it is not a priority for them to fix that.
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Jeena So we had to part ways :-/
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ehlovader could you even part ways though
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ehlovader I mean once they were subscribed to you, they will always be subscribed to you
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ehlovader what was the "security" part of that
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ehlovader it sounds like an insecurity
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Jeena I have to check if I can find the issue on github
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Jeena I don't quite remember anymore
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ehlovader would it or could it be possible to forcibly lock everyone out of a server by "subscribing" with incorrect info?
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ehlovader or similar
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ehlovader I assume simply removing the sub manually works right
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Jeena sort of
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Jeena if you have access to the database then yes
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Jeena most of the users are on the server of the one provider, cupcake, and thus have no access to the database
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Jeena and there is (still) no UI for it
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Jeena https://jeena.net/s/tent-subscription-bug.png Jonathans last answer to me words it as if it were not that big of a deal "We are still thinking about the best long-term solution for the protocol." but keep in mind that this discussion went on several months after this bug was introduced.
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tobiastom overall the tent guys don't seem to be very open to any kind of suggestions.
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Jeena that is true, while there I tried to communicate that in some way with a blog post https://jeena.net/problems-tent but they didn't even understand my concerns
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tobiastom I think that is very much ok not to listen to suggestions if they don't like them, but then they have to live with the fact that people will move on.
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jonnybarnes does anyone know if the hcard::photo property needs to be an image? i.e. an img tag, or can i link to an image with an a tag and add the mf photo class to that link?
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tobiastom links should work fine, I assume.
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Jeena Ah here it is https://github.com/tent/tentd/issues/127 and here is the other conversation https://jeena.net/s/tent-subscription-security.png The security thing is that you should not be able to remove/add subscriptions and so on if you overtake the domain (but not the server) from another person. You need the original credentials with which you created the subscriptions. I do have them in a database backup, but because of all those bugs it just
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Jeena doesn't work.
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michielbdejong Jeena: how many users are on tent, do you know?
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Jeena reading it now it is quite funny that he blames us for not backing up the database and both of us who were selfhosting have still backups of the database ^^
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Jeena right now? I would say about 50. At its peak, several hundred.
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Jeena abd they have about 17k users who made an account on cupcake
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@voxpelli @gRegorLove @starvfilmcritic As long as you can add a link-tag and a javascript you can at least use my https://webmention.herokuapp.com/ there (twitter.com/_/status/433630320672645120)
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michielbdejong Jeena: ah, that's quite a lot
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michielbdejong i'm evaluating setting up a non-profit hosting company, offering several different host-it-yourself style software products
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tobiastom michielbdejong: we have something "like" that in germany: https://uberspace.de
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michielbdejong so i'm looking at indieweb software, personal cloud software on the other, and everything inbetween
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tobiastom problem is: you are still relying on a 3rd party… :)
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michielbdejong yeah, but afiak they're not non-profit?
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michielbdejong tobiastom: yeah actually the name i was thinking if is 'Third Party People' :)
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michielbdejong it would be more like Indie Web for Dummies.
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tobiastom Hm. not sure about the non-profit. but you might be right.
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michielbdejong afaik only riseup are doing this, and a few small bespoke providers, who arrange one-off colo deals on a non-profit basis
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michielbdejong the goal would be to make things like webmention easier to obtain for non-techies
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tobiastom to be honest: why should I trust you? with this companies I see that they earn money from me, so they have a reason to continue.
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michielbdejong yeah, good point
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michielbdejong maybe there will be no market, for that reason
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michielbdejong but someone has to try that out :)
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barnabywalters IMO a charity is probably not the best model
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michielbdejong if there turns out to be no market, then i can blog about that conclusion :)
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tobiastom what er need would be a »friends host for their friends« campaign. Everybody knows a tech savy person that can host stuff for them.
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barnabywalters a hosting company which is transparent and open, with amazing customer service and indieweb software installed by default…
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michielbdejong barnabywalters: why not?
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michielbdejong barnabywalters: right
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barnabywalters …with easy domain name management, might be very wellr ecieved
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barnabywalters s/wellr /well r
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Loqi barnabywalters meant to say: …with easy domain name management, might be very well recieved
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barnabywalters currently hypothetical long-term plan for taproot is to have a service where people put their domain name and credit card details in a form, and get an installation of taproot they can use
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michielbdejong barnabywalters: i just read http://john.onolan.org/what-it-means-to-be-non-profit/ today, it covers my opinion about for-profit vs non-profit quite well i guess
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barnabywalters no reason you couldn’t do that now with idno
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michielbdejong barnabywalters: ah that's also an interesting approach
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barnabywalters pain points which would need to be handled exceedingly well: transferral of existing domain names, importing of data from other networks
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michielbdejong tobiastom: i'm not sure everybody knows a tech savvy person who can host stuff for them. when people ask me where to host their website, i don't usually say "i'll do it for you" - and the times i do, i usually end up regretting that promise ;)
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barnabywalters michielbdejong: heh, that matches my experiences with “hosted by a techie friend”
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tobiastom michielbdejong: yeah, I agree. we could end up with the old »you do stuff with computers, can you help me with office« problem.
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michielbdejong barnabywalters: what do you think is the benefit of for-profit? that people will trust it better to have an incentive to stay in business and to deliver a quality product?
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michielbdejong at this point i could still opt for for-profit. i think the difference is not that big in practice
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tobiastom michielbdejong: but that's kind of easy to solve: only host what you could support. when you like a software and it's easy for you to manage it, why not. if you don't like wordpress, just don't do it.
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barnabywalters michielbdejong: I think that John O’Nolan blog post sums it up quite well — not a charity, but not for-profit either
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michielbdejong in both cases i would do a freemium model, probably
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barnabywalters just a transparent, sustainable company
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tobiastom barnabywalters: regarding taproot, isn't that the same scenery we have with twitter today?
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michielbdejong barnabywalters: right. yes, like Mozilla i guess.
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barnabywalters michielbdejong: I’m not interested in freemium because it usually involves giving people subdomains
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tobiastom except that it is not paid and a totally different business model, but in theory you would own the data of all your subscribers.
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barnabywalters then “upgrading” to having an actual domain name
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barnabywalters tobiastom: how so? taproot is just publishing software like any other. the hosted service would be a simple UI over domain name + web hosting
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michielbdejong barnabywalters: yes. i like to call it an independent tld :) i got http://nic.un.ht/ for the purpose
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tobiastom freemium is stupid. you have to invest a lot of time supporting the people that will never pay anyways and the people who give you money will not get the attention of you that they deserv.
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michielbdejong but you reach a lot of people
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michielbdejong which is my goal
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tobiastom michielbdejong: better 10 paying people that you can build upon, the 10000 who will never give you a cent.
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michielbdejong get some critical mass behind some of the cool stuff people are developing in indieweb and open source
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tobiastom barnabywalters: so you would also provide them FTP access and whatever they ask for?
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barnabywalters personal domain names are so central to the indieweb approach that it’s a contradiction to give out free subdomains to people for anything other than testing
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barnabywalters in which case a hosted demo, or publicly-viewable UIs (which taproot already has) is a more sustainable approach
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barnabywalters tobiastom: no
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michielbdejong barnabywalters: right, so then you can't call it indie web maybe. but it will support webmention
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barnabywalters michielbdejong: webmention is only as valuable as the URLs involved
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barnabywalters silo subdomain URLs are always less stable and usable than personal domains
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barnabywalters tobiastom: in exactly the same way that shared hosts don’t allow me to install a different operating system or change the network configuration of a machine, my hosted service wouldn’t allow direct FTP access
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barnabywalters it’s the same set of freedoms, just on a different level of abstraction
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tobiastom barnabywalters: I agree with you, and I think it's a very good approach, but then it's technical no hosting, isn't it?
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barnabywalters the important thing is that people can get their content in and out, and that it’s hosted under a domain they control
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barnabywalters tobiastom: I see it as a logical extrapolation of dedicated -> VPS -> shared hosting -> …
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barnabywalters each one is still “yours”, you still have control
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tobiastom ok, I can very much agree to that.
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barnabywalters there are just a different set of freedoms
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barnabywalters this is all hypothetical anyway, if I ever build it my opinion might change immediately anyway ;)
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michielbdejong i like it
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tobiastom yeah, I like it as well. And I'll copy it shamelessly. :)
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michielbdejong what about people who don't have access to a credit card? don't we want to serve them?
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michielbdejong i mean, i think i want to
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michielbdejong there are whole countries where people can only opt for facebook because they have not enough money, or not the right payment tools
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tobiastom It's just hard. we could also use paysafe or whatever.
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tobiastom michielbdejong: which is in that case a good thing :)
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michielbdejong what is a good thing?
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tobiastom that people are not able to join facebook.
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barnabywalters (replace “credit card” with “bitcoin/dogecoin/xcoin” in my summary above)
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michielbdejong i would run the .un.ht registry like any other tld. i just wouldn't pay ICANN tax. which is probably a problem when you want to get TLS working. but otherwise i think it could come pretty close to a poor man's domain name. definitely different from a twitter handle
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michielbdejong tobiastom: no, i meant they are *only* able to choose facebook, because facebook signup doesn't require a creditcard, and domain name registration does
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michielbdejong starting at 2 usd/year for a .info, i think
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tobiastom oh, yeah. Now I get you.
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tobiastom but if they have a subdomain from you, they don't own it.
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michielbdejong yes, they do. just that icann didn't give it its stamp of approval
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michielbdejong technically, there is no difference between a .un.ht and a .co.uk. the difference is purely organizational
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michielbdejong they can edit their dns zone and everything
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barnabywalters michielbdejong: in practise, “ownership” of a domain is a physical thing. Do you offer some UI for them to point the domain name at whatever they want?
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michielbdejong yep
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tobiastom yeah, and then when I don't like you anymore, I cannot transfer it to someone else.
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michielbdejong well, ideally there would be two or three unrelated registrars
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michielbdejong let me know if anybody wants to become a .un.ht registrar :)
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barnabywalters I’m doing some experiments with namecoin at the moment, to see if that might be a viable decentralised DNS alternative
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michielbdejong i've also been thinking, i could set it up so that every user is a registrar by default
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michielbdejong ah cool
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michielbdejong has the downside though that it requires a browser plugin, right?
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barnabywalters michielbdejong: that sounds interesting, how would that work in practise?
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michielbdejong well, there is this protocol, let me look it up
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barnabywalters michielbdejong: yeah, at the moment it requires either network config changes, DNS changes, browser changes or browsing through a proxy
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barnabywalters none of which are particularly good solutions
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barnabywalters hence experimentation ;)
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michielbdejong right, EPP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_name_registrar#Domain_name_transfer
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michielbdejong so i would allow people to at least switch between different resellers of my fake domain names :)
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michielbdejong i realize it's not the real thing, but it's at good as it gets, i think, if we want any chance of indie web values getting a foothold in the third world.
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michielbdejong and also for instance first-world teenagers and students, who don't have a creditcard yet, or people don't want to use it online
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michielbdejong my main reason to make it not for profit is i think that making money is really not an ambition for me personally. if i had a sports car collection hobby to pay for, then maybe i would do it for-profit so that i could get rich in the process :)
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michielbdejong bbl
eschnou, pasevin, benprew, tantek, iangreenleaf, caseorganic, jedahan, skinny, squeakytoy, snarfed, paulcp, josephboyle1, cweiske, josephboyle, edrex, bnvk, jonnybarnes, KartikPrabhu and Jeena joined the channel
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Jeena This is a very interesting use case: http://andysylvester.com/2014/02/11/my-indieweb-areas-of-interest/ he is sending out webmentions but does not implement microformats
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Jeena so there is no author, no title, etc.
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ehlovader if not implementing it then what is the point?
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Loqi the point is that if the DB gets blown up
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ehlovader isn't that a requirement
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Jeena I don't think so
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ehlovader oh well that makes sense then loqi
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ehlovader hmm
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ehlovader web mentions force you, the remote site to request that info right?
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Jeena yeah
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tantek Jeena, what use case in particular?
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ehlovader what information do you have other than the url?
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tantek there's a lot in that post
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Jeena for my algorithm on how to show the webmention
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Jeena I don't mean the content
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tantek still confused
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aaronpk Jeena: treat it like any other inbound link you would find
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Jeena only the metadata because he doesn't mark it up with microformats
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aaronpk like even if there was no webmention sent, but you wanted to show a list of some pages that links to yours
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aaronpk a webmention is just a proactive way of telling one page that another linked to it
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tantek Jeena, then you can list it as a "mention" as aaronpk says
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tantek that's discussed on the comment-presentation wiki page
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tantek again I ask, what is the specific use-case you are talking about?
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aaronpk tantek: he's talking about the fact that that article links to his, but doesn't include microformats, so he's confused abotu what to display on his site (right, Jeena?)
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ehlovader I think that showing the domain is best option
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Jeena hm yeah, I still do not distinguish between them, but yeah, I really should, you're right, it should just be a list which is saying "and also mentioned was this article on: <a href="..">title...
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ehlovader I was going to suggest grabbing or failing over to the meta info, for author or google accounts
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tantek shall I write up an "article-name-discovery" algorithm then?
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ehlovader but there isn't even that
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Jeena yes aaronpk
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tantek as I've written up "authorship"?
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aaronpk i think a name discovery algorithm would be good
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tantek would that be sufficient?
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aaronpk tho may not be specific to articles? maybe "page name discovery"?
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tantek no we're not going to refer to any invisible metacrap
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tantek aaronpk - good point
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ehlovader aaronpk, are you behind pin13?
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aaronpk yes
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ehlovader or is pin13 a service site that you have some access to
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aaronpk it's my domain
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ehlovader your microformat reader is pretty epic... http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fandysylvester.com%2F2014%2F02%2F11%2Fmy-indieweb-areas-of-interest%2F
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ehlovader nice
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ehlovader is it open source?
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aaronpk that's just barnaby's php-mf2 parser :)
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ehlovader forkable
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ehlovader nice
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ehlovader is it a good idea to mirror
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ehlovader thought it might be nice to prettify
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ehlovader small thing I could give back...
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aaronpk prettify?
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tantek aaronpk, presumably you have some wrapper HTML/PHP around barnaby's php-mf2 parser :)
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ehlovader make it look nicer
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aaronpk sure, I can put it on github, it's a tiny bit of code
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ehlovader if it is just a wrapper, I can find barnaby's instead
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ehlovader and wrap it
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tantek heh, it's amazing how much a tiny bit of code helps at times
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tantek especially if it's tiny (which usually means better written)
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ehlovader it takes a village to raise a standard ;)
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ehlovader I like the talk most recently, that one about indieweb, I didn't know the background
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ehlovader the fact that there was an attempt for a perfect standard
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tantek ehlovader, not a village no. you actually have to ignore what the village is saying, watch what they're doing, and then work with a few *smiths to raise a standard
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ehlovader then it kept getting delayed, so then it was proposed to work independantly and like a ratrace
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tantek which?
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ehlovader creating an open "market" to continuously push each other towards a greater standard, and greater features
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ehlovader amber case
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ehlovader http://youtu.be/Au4bHb5twF4
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tantek yeah
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ehlovader so when you have implemented webmentions
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ehlovader with microformats but not actually provided microformats for your own article
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ehlovader are there issues with google/facebook/et al trying to determine the author on the article and or linking to other peoples photos on other people's articles
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tantek ehlovader - it's ok, there's market incentive for each incremental implementation of each of feature - that's the only way it works
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tantek ehlovader - hah yeah - they screw up all the time with wrong photos etc.
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ehlovader I am seeing that it shows that there are author objects here, and I was wondering how it felt about that... http://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/richsnippets?q=http%3A%2F%2Fandysylvester.com%2F2014%2F02%2F11%2Fmy-indieweb-areas-of-interest%2F
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tantek e.g. http://tantek.com/2014/028/t2/google-search-state-of-the-union-nixon-sotu
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ehlovader yeah
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ehlovader saw that
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ehlovader wondered if that had to do with your account state
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tantek so yeah, Google's previews/snippets are kind of crap
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ehlovader since google results may differe for logged in users or non logged in
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tantek they started out ok, at least for their whitelists
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tantek but have gotten worse (more rotten) over time
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tantek ehlovader - nah, had several friends confirm it. tried it with multiple devices, signed-out, private browsing windows etc.
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ehlovader http://lifehacker.com/5878519/the-dont-be-evil-bookmarklet-makes-googles-social-results-useful-rather-than-simply-promotional
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ehlovader haha
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Loqi rofl
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ehlovader billy get to the rofl-choppa
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ehlovader for a moment I thought i was having a stroke http://hcard.geekhood.net/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fandysylvester.com%2F2014%2F02%2F11%2Fmy-indieweb-areas-of-interest%2F#result
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ehlovader or had floaters in my view
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ehlovader cleaned my glasses and they made micro different than format
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ehlovader which is a strange place to break color
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tantek ehlovader, Google's rel=author implementation (consuming) is a bit sketch
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tantek they strongly steer people to *only* rel=author link *directly* to a G+ profile URL
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tantek their silo profile
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tantek which is obviously anti-indieweb
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tantek however, what *also* works, but takes a bit more work is:
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tantek 1. link from your articles/posts with rel=author to your indieweb home page
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ehlovader is it possible to rel=author to yours
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ehlovader and have that rel author to g+
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tantek 2. link from your indieweb home page with rel=me to your G+ silo profile
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ehlovader or only direct google to g+
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aaronpk ehlovader: https://github.com/aaronpk/mf2-test
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ehlovader oh that works
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tantek 3. be sure your G+ silo profile lists your indieweb home page as another site for you
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ehlovader as long as it is only two deep
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tantek but they don't document that very well
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ehlovader thank you aaronpk, so it is just a short little hook huh
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ehlovader thanks
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ehlovader what was the first field for? shortening
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ehlovader was that through your shortener at pin13?
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aaronpk this is just the /mf2/ folder, not the pin13.net index page which has a bunch of other stuff
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aaronpk yeah, url shortening
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ehlovader is there a package list for composer and indieweb?
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ehlovader I just found composer, before I had the occasional run in with it
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ehlovader but I am thinking of using it for everything
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ehlovader ok
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aaronpk yeah it's great
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ehlovader it looks ages better than pear
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aaronpk yea :)
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ehlovader pear may have actually been the reason I didn't jump on board right away
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ehlovader it felt too similar and pear was horrible to maintain and all the libraries always became deprecated and under developed
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ehlovader honestly since github, the world has changed
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ehlovader it is amazing
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ehlovader I wish I was born a few decades later.. all the programming I have had to work for would have been so easy
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ehlovader or a decade earlier, so I could have been on that internet boom
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tantek.com created /page-name-discovery (+1497) "stub something quick with dfn, semi-obvious algorithm, and obv FAQ about metacrap" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk, ehlovader, there you go - for your review and critique: http://indiewebcamp.com/page-name-discovery
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aaronpk great
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aaronpk what about if the p-summary is too long?
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aaronpk or any values for that matter
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aaronpk "too long" being a subjective thing based on the site that is displaying the link
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ehlovader sounds like that is something for the site displaying the link
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ehlovader css may be a good thing to do there
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ehlovader text-overflow: ellipsis
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aaronpk yes, the whole algorithm is for the site displaying the link
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ehlovader I would tend to suggest that for anyone who wants to keep content on one line or in a certain space but not have it just overflow for no reason
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ehlovader tantek, would you not want to default to H1s before or after titles?
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Jeena I need to rewrite my webmentions code to deal with the two different things like in-reply-to and just webmention
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ehlovader and then domain before untitled?
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ehlovader and if you resort to domain, would you want to have it include the full uri
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ehlovader or use the uri only, and domain as the "author" if authorship wasn't provided?
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ehlovader just playing devils advocate mostly, dumping my mind
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ehlovader I do believe the untitled would probably get the author to try and fix their site faster
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ehlovader is there a standard for requesting remote sites refresh their webmentions? if they were "read" incorrectly
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ehlovader searches the wiki
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tantek aaronpk "too long" is already addressed by /comments-presentation
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aaronpk maybe point to that then?
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Jeena ehlovader if you changed your code you just send another webmention, so the other websites get to know that you did just that
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tantek it's in the see also
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aaronpk hm ok
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tantek ehlovader, re: H1. No, I'd rather keep the algorithm simpler until/unless there's some data showing that H1 without h-entry is actually worthy of supporting.
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ehlovader oh it is in the spec to say you changed the code? and it replaces existing web mentions
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ehlovader google uses h1
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tantek ehlovader - well it claims to
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ehlovader well yeah
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ehlovader or it weighs differently if there is no h1
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ehlovader or something
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tantek right, can't actually figure out WTF google does
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tantek exactly, or something
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ehlovader that is the point
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tantek google is crap as a source of evidence for markup
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ehlovader haha
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ehlovader well when you get crap markup
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ehlovader maybe the crap source is the best place to go
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tantek because they use (a) secret sauce, (b) white lists of domains, ( c ) delayed results of crawls / algorithm changes
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ehlovader otherwise you just say nope, your webmention means nothing to me
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ehlovader throw an error to them
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ehlovader and tell them to shove off
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tantek ehlovader - nope, because none of us have the time to implement crap like google
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ehlovader that is an option
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ehlovader right?
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tantek better if we keep it simpler (algorithm) and thus motivate publishers to do the right thing if they want their indieweb comments to look right
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ehlovader wouldn't they see if they webmentioned you, if your site returned an error
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ehlovader yeah
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tantek ehlovader, you can ignore any webmentions you want to for any reason
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ehlovader that is what I mean
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ehlovader forcibly
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tantek sure you're free to do that too
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tantek right
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ehlovader like sending a hitman to the whois to "take care of it" when the markup doesn't exist
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ehlovader ooh
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ehlovader what if you hosted a public shaming site
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ehlovader or a portion of your site that listed markup fails you have found
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ehlovader and webmentioned back from that page
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ehlovader ofc to offer help
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ehlovader also
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ehlovader but a way of making the author aware
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ehlovader something like http://www.irongeek.com/fed-watch.php
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tantek haha yes you could do that
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ehlovader but more of an indiewatch
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tantek example.com/mention-fails
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ehlovader haha
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tantek and then send a webmention back to THEM with that source URL
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ehlovader yup
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tantek but with better markup obviously
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ehlovader well yeah
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ehlovader otherwise you could end up in a loop
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ehlovader o_0
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tantek it would be a service! especially if you listed what their mentions did wrong
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ehlovader maye with a limit
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ehlovader yeah
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ehlovader I think it would be neat
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tantek nah - only note fails for webmentions to your actual posts
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tantek and ignore webmentions of /mention-fails
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ehlovader not the fail
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tantek thus no loop
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ehlovader yup
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ehlovader is there a way to implement something like that which is not 100% in the open? so they have the chance to remove themselves from your list, or that their site isn't shamed forever
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tantek.com edited /page-name-discovery (+197) "/* Algorithm */ add a details note about too long names and how to handle per comments-presentation, since aaronpk asked ;)" (view diff)
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tantek ehlovader - you could make one-off URLs for them like /mention-fail/their-permalink
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tantek that way there is no public "list" at all
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ehlovader ah, yeah
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ehlovader that would be good
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tantek or you could just keep the /mention-fail as only showing the most recent 10 or so fails
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ehlovader someone may find them through in-url right? or they shouldn't because of no-folows
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tantek as well as the /mention-fail/their-permalink
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ehlovader yup
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ehlovader the public bit would be helpful on an education basis
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tantek so they're briefly shamed until someone else pushes them off the list
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aaronpk i like that idea
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ehlovader but could be embarrasing or bad from a public shaming sort of basis
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aaronpk i don't think there's anything shameful about making mistakes :)
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ehlovader would suck to be the last person to implement this incorrectly just before everyone is indiewebified
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ehlovader 100%
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ehlovader everywhere
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ehlovader from birth
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ehlovader you would end up "that guy" who can't do it
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ehlovader nah
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tantek well if they resend a webmention with a fixed permalink then you should remove them from the -fail page
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ehlovader prepare for mistakes
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ehlovader learn from mistakes
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ehlovader if you don't make mistakes you aren't doing anything important
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ehlovader or something
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ehlovader insert quote here
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aaronpk also I could just show fails from the last 30 minutes
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tantek "move fast and break things" (ahem)
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ehlovader ooh, that works
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aaronpk just long enough for people who are testing
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tantek quote citation: http://www.wired.com/business/2012/02/zuck-letter/
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tantek "The idea is that if you never break anything, you’re probably not moving fast enough."
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ehlovader yeah
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ehlovader agreed
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aaronpk also see their posters around the office: http://peopleint.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/done_is_better_than_perfect.png
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ehlovader yeah
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ehlovader http://www.startupvitamins.com/
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ehlovader http://startupquotes.startupvitamins.com/
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ehlovader http://www.blessthisstuff.com/stuff/living/art-decor/motivational-startup-posters/
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ehlovader http://www.startupwalls.com/
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ehlovader http://www.fastcocreate.com/1683511/these-startup-inspired-motivational-posters-will-motivate-you-to-hurl
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ehlovader oh that is just startup vitamins again
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aaronpk oh and the response to the webmention would say "webmention queued, check the status here: ___________"
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ehlovader looking nicer already
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ehlovader so you keep track of the source
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ehlovader and when you get a succesful mention you remove the fail
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ehlovader I think keeping stats on it might be nicer
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ehlovader too
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ehlovader "It's ok, 10 other people forgot this too."
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aaronpk haha
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ehlovader "Indieweb is hard, but Indie doesn't mean you have to do it alone"
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aaronpk Remember, there are *two* I's in "indie"
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ehlovader or more succint "Indieweb is hard, but Indie !== Alone"
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ehlovader haha
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ehlovader there isn't necessarily a way with indieweb concepts to identify if the person viewing your page is in fact the author of another site is there?
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ehlovader unless you request they indieauth with your site for no other reason than to show them context
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ehlovader or something
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aaronpk yeah you'd have to do auth stuff which would make the whole thing more complicated
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aaronpk I like the idea of just showing the latest fails for the last 30 minutes. super easy to implement that too since you can just use a cache, and no auth stuff.
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ehlovader ooh, 30 minutes isn't bad
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ehlovader is a newb
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ehlovader is webmention that responsive
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ehlovader that they would/should immediately get feedback themselves?
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ehlovader is working on the details...
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ehlovader I have ssl, I have /this/ my bnc up and running, I have selfoss and webmail and owncloud all working on my server
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ehlovader but I need to find out what happened to the webhost, I need to throw up a good quick page with just dump of links
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ehlovader I need to write up some of the things I am using now in the wiki, and then I could start microblogging with notes and shares, and mentions
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ehlovader that is a logical and well ordered todo right?
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ehlovader I think it follows closely the order of indiewebifie.me
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ehlovader also, could that webmention assistance remention actually run as a service? are most/all the existing webmention libraries setup well with event hooks or actions that could you to handle errors through external means...
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ehlovader or pass through and run events on later successes too
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ehlovader I assume if this were written as a separate library it would have to handle the mentions first, then pass through to allow whatever you want to handle the actual mention when it works
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ehlovader that would be the easiest
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aaronpk oh interesting idea. webmention.io could do that.
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aaronpk kind of like how it's set up to proxy pingbacks as webmentions
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ehlovader oh
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ehlovader hmm
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neuro` Good evening
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ehlovader so you would just say things you need, or there is already a best practices right?
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ehlovader things that should always be required
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ehlovader evening neuro`
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ehlovader how are you doing
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ehlovader ?
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ehlovader I will try and use punctuation like a civilized person.
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ehlovader so quick poll, was indieweb parts (all the various project) built upon any one framework/system?
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ehlovader leaning towards PHP here...
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ehlovader or was there one framework/system/etc that exists more than others....
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ehlovader klein.php, fat free framework, laravel, symphony, ...etc
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ehlovader all bespoke
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ehlovader I noticed that selfoss used f3
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@caseorganic My talk on Designing for Privacy in Mobile+Web Apps @ixdconf last wk is up! #privacy #location #indieweb... http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/02/12/1/privacy-location-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/433712637797339136)
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ehlovader gave it a look and it was nice, am using kleinphp for an internal project where i work, as a retrofitted method of taking procedural code and making it more structured
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ehlovader something that could shim in with legacy php
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ehlovader without doing a full indiewebproject genome project myself I was wondering what the community favored (again still leaning towards php)
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aaronpk not sure about others, but I use no framework or a minimal framework http://aaron.pk/a4P01 depending on the project. Mostly I just make sure I'm using composer packages for things.
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ehlovader is that for freedom from dependency?
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ehlovader klein may be worth looking into, it is minimal and composer friendly
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aaronpk most frameworks i've tried I end up spending more time learning the framework than actually writing code
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aaronpk i like the name :)
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ehlovader this is micro framwork
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ehlovader https://github.com/chriso/klein.php
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ehlovader there you go
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neuro` Interesting
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ehlovader it mostly handles the routing, some sessions, can do validation and the view and data scope stuff
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ehlovader it handles flash messages pretty well, which is key for post, redirect, get
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neuro` I'm using either Rails for large projects or Sinatra for quick and dirst pocs
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ehlovader the view is simple but can handle layouts, view rendering and partials
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aaronpk I use sinatra a lot (and jsonatra for APIs) but that's Ruby
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ehlovader is not sure he is open to becoming a rubyist
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ehlovader I have used it a bit in my provisioning ventures
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aaronpk wasn't sure either, and has been slowly converted
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ehlovader definitely think I enjoy python better when it comes to that... puppet vs vagrant
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aaronpk well not converted, I do both equally now :)
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ehlovader haha
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ehlovader is it because of the magic
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aaronpk no, I don't like the magic
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ehlovader the crazy syntax that can be used to make things happen
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ehlovader like rabbits out of loops
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ehlovader and coins from behind your whiles
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ehlovader like the weird uncle of the newer languages
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ehlovader you never really understood it, and he never made sense, but you were continually impressed by the tricks he showed you
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ehlovader oh, klein is also restful
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ehlovader which is probably something that comes up in indieweb stuff right?
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neuro` Well, more than indieweb, I'd say "sensible web programming"
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ehlovader haha, yeah
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ehlovader but it is a relatively new concept
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ehlovader and could result in lots of boilerplate to accomplish without a framework
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ehlovader lots i mean little but you gotta know what you are doing
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neuro` REST is 14 years old
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ehlovader REST itself yeah
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ehlovader but it wasn't implemented often or well in the last 10, SOAP brought it to the forefront as far as I remember
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ehlovader but I also wasn't aware of most of the changes in the past
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ehlovader I didn't even know that freenode supported TOR through onion endpoints until last year or so
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ehlovader I was relatively isolated from developers and peers the past 8 years, my own fault, but definitely trying to change that.
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ehlovader I suffer from what I termed indoor cat syndrome... not growing or being pushed to evolve or keep up with the outdoor cats that had to struggle for every bite of food.
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@fdevillamil @xtof_fr que penserais-tu d’un homebrew website club á Paris ? 2 fois / mois pour parler / créer / former sur #indieweb. Partant ? (twitter.com/_/status/433715991626125314)
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ehlovader while I was well fed and ate mostly the same dry meals each day for years, my outdoor cat friends had to constantly look for the next alley restaurant to get a bite from the back.
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ehlovader They tended to get more variety too, and had grown the street smarts to keep on top, while I was rather coddled and kept on the same schedule, and playing with the same toys, and same "other cats".
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ehlovader I could see the world from my window, but I was never forced to use it. I also never forced myself, which was a huge mistake.
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caseorganic neuro`: I like "sensible web programming"
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tantek hey ehlovader - you should add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC-people
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ehlovader I should
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ehlovader you don't allow anon adds yet do you?
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ehlovader I have a few freelance things to take care of tonight, but hopefully if I figure out what was keeping my webserver stuff from working I will have a very basic
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ehlovader albeit ugly, html webpage at ehlovader.com to indieauth with
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tantek ehlovader - what do you mean by anon adds?
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ehlovader like amber case had said in her talk most recently, the wiki requires you to have your domian, and participate at least in good faith to actually contribute
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tantek exactly! that's a good thing!
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ehlovader whether a real developer, or not, but you should setup something
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ehlovader right now I have nothing
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tantek we eat our own dogfood - indieweb by and for independents
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ehlovader in transition...
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ehlovader yup
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caseorganic.com edited /IRC_People (+4) "Corrected user to Caseorganic.com from User:Caseorganic" (view diff)
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tantek ehlovader - great - focus on that
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ehlovader so far i am just a loud lurker
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tantek rather than all the other webmention etc. stuff
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tantek one step at a time
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ehlovader did you see my list
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tantek more action, less loud lurking ;)
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ehlovader I said it earlier
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ehlovader talking to aaronpk
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ehlovader ;)
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tantek ehlovader, don't put your list here, put it on your user page on the wiki
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ehlovader talking in here, but while he was here
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ehlovader what list?
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ehlovader I konw
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tantek good
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tantek setup your static HTML h-card page with rel=me links to profiles for IndieAuth
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tantek make that your next priority - get to IndieMark level 1
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caseorganic.com edited /User:Caseorganic (-166) "Cleared page because Caseorganic is not a user. Caseorganic.com is a user" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks RT @fdevillamil: @xtof_fr que penserais-tu d’un homebrew website club á Paris ? 2 fois / mois pour parler / créer / former sur #indieweb. P… (twitter.com/_/status/433717750574231552)
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tantek caseorganic, that's what #redirect:[[User:Caseorganic.com]] is for ;)
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ehlovader here you go tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-02-12/line/1392239521
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ehlovader that is the FIRST thing I said
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caseorganic tantek: i don't see a redirect function from my login. hmm.
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ehlovader ofc I wanted my other server things
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ehlovader this bnc so I am on here
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tantek ehlovader - nope, on your own domain. start with first steps. not second, third, fourth.
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ehlovader the webmail and stuff
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ehlovader what am I doing that you consider to be the second
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ehlovader third
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ehlovader fourth
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ehlovader etc
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ehlovader ?
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tantek once you get your first step done, you'll re-order your other steps
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ehlovader please tell me
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tantek everything other than getting your simple static HTML h-card setup
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tantek on your own domain
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ehlovader when did I say I was doing that?
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tantek you don't need SSL
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ehlovader anything besides that
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tantek the URL you said
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tantek "microblogging with notes and shares, and mentions"
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ehlovader that was AFTER the static page
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tantek all those are second, third, fourth
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ehlovader http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-02-12/line/1392239485
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ehlovader yes they are
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tantek yes, second, third, fourth are after first ;)
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tantek so focus on the first
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ehlovader yes
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ehlovader and I am not doing the microblogging
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tantek and don't bother even talking out loud about 2-4
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ehlovader or the notes
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ehlovader or the shares
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tantek because those will change
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tantek once you get started
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ehlovader http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-02-12/line/1392239485
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tantek get your site working
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tantek so do that: "throw up a good quick page with just dump of links"
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ehlovader yup
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tantek focus on doing that, not chatting here. it's clear what you have to do next.
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ehlovader ok
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@AndySylvester99 Thoughts for the PDX Homebrew Website Club meeting: http://andysylvester.com/2014/02/11/my-indieweb-areas-of-interest/ #indieweb @indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/433722571360464896)
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@ablwr yay MT @caseorganic: My talk on Designing for Privacy in Mobile+Web Apps @ixdconf is up! #privacy #location #indieweb http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/02/12/1/privacy-location-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/433723107271262208)
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bear my goodness - take a long lunch and you all get seriously *chatty*
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caseorganic bear: lol
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bear good thing I can read the logs later
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bear :)
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ttepasse aaronpk, you linked your atom feed with the following markup: rel="updates alternate". Do still have any idea where the token "updates" came from? It doesn't exist in HTML5, it isn't documented in the microformat registry and all other proposals for feed autodiscovery that I know of had other rel values.
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aaronpk huh, good question
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aaronpk I probably copied it from tantek's site :)
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aaronpk https://www.google.com/search?q="rel+updates+alternate"
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ttepasse It is so marked up in an example on http://indiewebcamp.com/How_to_set_up_your_realtime_feed
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@deepseadawn MT @caseorganic: My talk on Designing for #Privacy in Mobile+Web Apps @ixdconf last wk is up! http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/02/12/1/privacy-location-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/433733549473026048)
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ttepasse ... by you. Which is why I was asking you. :)
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aaronpk haha
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aaronpk yeah my guess is I saw it on tantek's site and did the same
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ttepasse view source is alive and well, I see. ;)
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aaronpk i like how that got indexed by google
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: Checking that http://noterlive.com works on iOS (twitter.com/_/status/433735185931436033)
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Jeena I hope the fix in the webmentions wordpress plugin will propagate to the websites soon, every time I webmention someone my webmention is broken because I don't use absolute URLs, perhaps I should change that until this gets out in the open.
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Jeena Btw. I made air-dried ham, and it is delicious https://jeena.net/air-dried-ham check especially out the last picture in 100% scale https://jeena.net/images/2014/ham-on-a-plate.jpg
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@offrayLC The #Web Is Dead. Long Live the #Internet http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/08/ff_webrip/all/ cc @gpmeneses @MozillaScience @mozilla #IndieWeb #IndieWebScience (twitter.com/_/status/433737906004307968)
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iboxifoo.com edited /events/2014-02-12-homebrew-website-club (+86) (view diff)
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tantek greetings IndieWebCamp! ready for tonight's Homebrew Website Club meetup?
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benwerd Yep
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benwerd :)
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tantek :)
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ttepasse Ah, there he is. Tantek, you linked your Atom feed with rel="updates alternate". Any idea where the token "updates" came from?
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ttepasse (It isn't in the usual rel-registries or autodiscovery proposals. I'm just curious, if I missed something.)
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tantek searches his site.
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snarfed maybe it's related to PuSH?
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snarfed not much about it in a web search
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snarfed one meaningful hit: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/webfinger/-1ZTeg7TaWQ/dlF6gZzRYtIJ
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tantek reads
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jedahan tantek yup see you at 6:30
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tantek my site has had rel="alternate updates" since launching Falcon live on it 2010-01-01
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snarfed found it in an HTML-related RFC from 1995: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-html-relrev-00#page-23
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tantek ooh that's interesting, but revisions sounds fairly specific
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snarfed "When REL=UPDATES, the target document contains revisions to the current document"
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snarfed right, so different from the usage here
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snarfed sounds like the conclusion might be, it's not really a thing
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tantek I think I may have (thought I) made it up at the time
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snarfed i know the feeling
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ttepasse Nobody said that the target document has to have the same representation as the current document.
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tantek as a way to indicate that the destination of the link was *only* updates, instead of being a complete alternate
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ttepasse Maybe that was the time, when HTML5 tried to spec "feed".
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tantek e.g. home page contains more than just updates/posts
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tantek yeah I gave up on "feed" at the time since no one could agree on it
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tantek snarfed, I think you're right, it was PuSH inspired
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@hol_wily RT @fdevillamil: @xtof_fr que penserais-tu d’un homebrew website club á Paris ? 2 fois / mois pour parler / créer / former sur #indieweb. P… (twitter.com/_/status/433746786440978432)
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ttepasse So I'll ignore it, when I try to fix my buggy Feed-Autodiscovery-Extension.
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ttepasse Thanks for looking.
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snarfed ttepasse++
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Loqi ttepasse has 1 karma
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tantek snarfed, that webfinger email thread is depressing
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tantek so many words about so little
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snarfed :P
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tantek ironically I'm listening to caseorganic's talk at "FutureTalks" and she just ranted about how noisy email is vs. IRC
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tantek :)
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snarfed heh, timely
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tantek open email lists - dominated by storytellers, not builders
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tantek it's an excellent summary of the problem with the medium for technical development
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tantek and broken links from that email thread
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tantek so yes, snarfed, I think I put in rel="updates" to help with discovery, but that was when I still grudgingly accepted separate feed sidefiles as the best thing we had
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tantek now it's pretty irrelevant
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ttepasse And broken hopes for Google Buzz.
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snarfed makes sense
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tantek so yeah, going to dump it - can't justify it even based on hypothetical use-cases
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ttepasse Oh, please update http://indiewebcamp.com/How_to_set_up_your_realtime_feed . Everyone ... ok at least two others copied that which irritated me in the first place. :)
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tantek yup fixing that first
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tantek I suppose we could use rel=updates for an updates.html page that *only* had posts (no furniture links or anything else) - but since no one has anything like that, we should drop it until that becomes a real issue
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tantek.com edited /How_to_set_up_your_realtime_feed (-8) "drop rel=updates until there's an actual use-case for it and a scenario where it makes a difference" (view diff)
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tantek ok rel="updates" gone from wiki and gone from tantek.com - thanks for calling that into question ttepasse
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ttepasse Just plain curiosity.
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tantek keep up the curiosity ;)
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tantek socraticmethod++
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Loqi socraticmethod has 1 karma
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tantek !tell caseorganic loved your latest talk(s)! the iteration and messaging is really awesome. one nit: relative temporal references need absolutising/updating, e.g. "dinner last night", and upcoming IndieWebCamps (slide near end). Really love the close too. Minimal features, building blocks. So good.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Jeena so Statusnet/identi.ca is able to consume our notes atom feeds? Am I reading http://indiewebcamp.com/How_to_set_up_your_realtime_feed right?
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Jeena or, I should say was.
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tantek Jeena, yeah, the statusnet/identica silos are no more, but anyone with a statusnet install can do so
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Jeena ah the content has to be marked up a little bit different
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tantek it shouldn't. they just consume Atom AFAIK
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tantek via PuSH
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Jeena I think I know one person who installed one instance for himself
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Jeena I never really read about PuSH, need to do that some time, I have no idea what that actually is.
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tantek ouch: http://evan.status.net/ = "Database error \ The database for Just another StatusNet microblog is not responding correctly, so the site will not work properly. The site admins probably know about the problem, but you can contact them at [no address given] to make sure. "
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tantek and https://identi.ca/ at some point shutdown their statusnet install and replaced it with pump.io
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tantek kind of a site-death. more like a site-wipe
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tantek is it worth keeping track of site-wipes like that?
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tantek I mean, loss of profiles, posts
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Jeena yeah but pump.io is really different and not at all compatible with anything