#indiewebcamp 2014-02-13

2014-02-13 UTC
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tantek different but somewhat compatible - as there appears to be a transfer of the statusnet data to it
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tantek e.g. https://identi.ca/t
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Jeena I tried to install it once and failed miserably, kind of like when I tried to install a MovableTypes blog
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tantek ah but all the "a note" and "a comment" links in the "Meanwhile…" sidebar at that URL are broken with a JS "Error fetching notice"
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tantek red header on the page
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Jeena yeah
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Jeena I was just thinking that a statusnet instance could perhaps work as a notes-feed-reader?
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tantek yes - statusnet had integrated reading capabilities
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Jeena but notes like aarons notes?
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Jeena or I mean from atom feeds?
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tantek notes like my or aaronpk's notes from our Atom feeds
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tantek it only consumed Atom, it didn't consume h-entry (yet)
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tantek but now the goal is get/make pump.io consume h-entry
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Jeena I was identica once and I only saw "tweets" from other identica users, never saw anything with atom
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tantek there was a "remote subscribe" option
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Jeena that would be quite awesome
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aaronpk so sad that's past tense now
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tantek very few "indie" sites integrated what indentica needed
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tantek it wasn't built for them either
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tantek it was built for one identica site to be able to remote subscribe to another identica site
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tantek.com edited /videos_about_the_indieweb (+66) "/* 2014 */ note video host, length, context" (view diff)
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tantek but because it was built 100% on open standards, indie sites (like me with tantek.com) were able to set themselves up to be subscribed to from any identica install
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Jeena in firefox you can say with a special link that your website is able to take subscriptions to rss/atom and later on when the user clicks on a rss-button firefox sends the user to the website and lets him subscribe (this is how TinyTinyRSS does it so you don't need to copy&paste RSS/Atom urls manually)
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Jeena something like that would be needed for our readers too
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tantek Jeena - something better
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tantek that UI is quite old
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Jeena but for websites with h-entry, etc.
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tantek we need to measure ourselves against modern subscription UIs
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tantek e.g. Twitter, FB, Pinterest etc.
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tantek "follow" UIs
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tantek FF RSS button is insufficient. And too old school. We can do better.
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Loqi caseorganic: tantek left you a message 14 minutes ago: loved your latest talk(s)! the iteration and messaging is really awesome. one nit: relative temporal references need absolutising/updating, e.g. "dinner last night", and upcoming IndieWebCamps (slide near end). Really love the close too. Minimal features, building blocks. So good.
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Jeena sure, but I am talking about the fact that you can tell Fx that you can take over after a user clicks on a follow button
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tantek you ready to start solving the follow problem, is that what I'm hearing? ;)
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tantek working on your indiereader? :)
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Jeena I only have the thing I did with Atom but it is not good
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Jeena even though it makes life easier
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Jeena you can only consume with it, etc.
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Jeena haven't found the right approach yet
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tantek yes - you're on the cutting edge
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Jeena hehe
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tantek so it will be more challenging than the other areas that we've figured out on the wiki
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tantek welcome to the frontier :)
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Jeena :D
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tantek you now have the privilege (responsibility) to help expand the boundaries of the indieweb :D
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Jeena nice :)
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tantek.com edited /videos_about_the_indieweb (+39) "link Amber's video to wiki page for the event about the talk" (view diff)
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tantek caseorga_: looks like your IxDA14 talk video uses a Flash-only embed :( I know Vimeo has an HTML5 embed option, looking into it...
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aaronpk sadface
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tantek definitely not mobile friend ;)
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aaronpk it looks like vimeo changed their embed code recently
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tantek *ly
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aaronpk the embed I had in p3k was apparently broken, gave a weird vimeo error page
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aaronpk then I went to go look and now they have an iframe embed
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Jeena they had it for years already so they can decide on their server if they need to serve you html5 or flash
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Jeena at least that is what they said back then.
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tantek hmm - the iframe should work
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tantek checks the CASSIS autolink/embed code
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Jeena '<iframe class="vimeo" src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/' + id + '?byline=0&amp;portrait=0" width="100%" height="380" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen allowFullScreen />' is what I use
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tantek indeed, that iframe is what's already in CASSIS for automatic embeds of vimeo video links
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tantek so, aaronpk, why the <embed> instead of the <iframe> from vimeo's share / Embed UI
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tantek ?
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aaronpk it should be using the iframe
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aaronpk what weird, why is it not...
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tantek yeah, http://caseorganic.com/articles/2014/02/12/1/designing-for-privacy-in-mobile-and-web-apps-at-interaction-14-in-amsterdam uses an <embed>
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aaronpk i changed that last night
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aaronpk weird, didn't make it to the server. ok it's updated now!
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tantek is researching precise time coordinates of caseorganic's IxDA talk for the wiki
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tantek.com edited /Events (+554) "add IxDA14: Designing for privacy in mobile and web apps" (view diff)
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jjuran leaves for SF
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benwerd Just finished watching that talk. Really well put together, as always.
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benwerd Comments about legal matters at the beginning made me think again about going into law. Those privacy policies & licenses are so important.
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tantek watching it right now
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tantek benwerd - they're sorta important?
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tantek they're now too long for anyone to practically expect to be held to them
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tantek never been enforced in court
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tantek it's laughable that iTunes TOS is > Romeo & Juliet
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tantek in length
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benwerd tantek: right, at the moment they're broken. but a license, on our terms, can be an empowering tool.
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tantek please read this play-length text before you can use this required update to the device you already bought
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benwerd (I mean, if I hypothetically did go into law, I'd still code, obvs. Those tools remain the most important.)
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tantek benwerd - I wonder if that is true, or if the *default* per the law is more user-empowering / user-protective
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benwerd I think that depends on where you are
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tantek yeah
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tantek different per nationsilo
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benwerd nationsilo :)
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benwerd different per statesilo, potentially, too
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benwerd (I *love* nationsilo. Captures my feelings about borders very well)
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tantek doubtful, since internet business typically crosses state lines thus Federal
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tantek is on a terminology roll this week.
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tantek what was the other one?
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Jeena Oh finally, Mozilla is adding ads to the Firefox UI: "Directory Tiles will instead suggest pre-packaged content for first-time users ... some will be popular websites in a given geographic location, and some will be sponsored content from hand-picked partners" https://blog.mozilla.org/advancingcontent/2014/02/11/publisher-transformation-with-users-at-the-center/
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tantek oh yeah - snarfed seemed to like "silo RSVP" per: http://tantek.com/2014/041/t1/homebrew-website-club-indie-rsvp-silo-fb
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snarfed i did!
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tantek Jeena, yeah, Mozilla is trying to find additional sources of revenue in addition to search referrals.
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tantek it's a challenge
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Jeena yeah :/
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tantek benwerd, yes, nationsilo
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tantek I think it's the right framing
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tantek one day, when the indieweb is a fait accompli, I think I want to work on the CEP
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tantek per Diamond Age
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Jeena they should add webmentions to their blog because "Comments are closed, but trackbacks are open."
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Jeena who in their right mind uses trackbacks in 2014?
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Jeena pingback, sure, but trackback?
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tantek a spam honeypot?
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Jeena haha
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Jeena ok
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tantek ;)
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benwerd by a "spam honeypot" do you mean my archived wordpress blog? because, man ...
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tantek.com created /events/2014-02-07-design-privacy-mobile-web-apps (+1049) "draft from URLs posted on caseorganic's site" (view diff)
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tantek benwerd presumably "archived" means you've turned off trackbacks
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tantek.com edited /videos_about_the_indieweb (+210) "add caseorganic video from IxDA14" (view diff)
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benwerd no, I haven't
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benwerd "abandoned" is probably a better word ;) I'm still welcoming comments.
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tantek man, caseorganic is dominating videos about the indieweb for 2014 ;)
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tantek heh
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benwerd has anyone heard back from oscon yet? (if anyone else submitted?)
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aaronpk not yet
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tantek oh oops.
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aaronpk oops?
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tantek forgot to submit CASSIS.js again
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aaronpk tantek: meeting tonight is at mozillasf, yeah? want to send me a video link soon?
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tantek I really enjoy listening/watching caseorganic's discussion of why/when blogs / feed-readers went wrong
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tantek aaronpk - will get a video link to you ~18:00 if that's ok
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obloid.org edited /events/2014-02-12-homebrew-website-club (+82) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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aaronpk perfect
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aaronpk I have extra stuff here so we will hopefully have a better connection
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tantek ooh - growing attendance in PDX!
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tantek sweet
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tantek aaronpk - perhaps double-check the info on http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-02-07-design-privacy-mobile-web-apps ?
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obloid.org created /User:Obloid.com (+61) "obloid.com" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: any link to the said discussion on blog/feedreaders by caseorganic?
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tantek KartikPrabhu - yes - that's what I've been updating the wiki with :)
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KartikPrabhu oh cool cool
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tantek watch the two most recent videos (both 2014) here: http://indiewebcamp.com/videos_about_the_indieweb
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tantek she's such a great speaker
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wagle ya.. obloid is me
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KartikPrabhu tantek: thanks. on watch list for tonight!
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tantek wagle - a-ha! and you're already in http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people :)
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tantek KartikiPrabhu - in fact I should post a note about them (the videos)
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wagle apparently under www.obloid.org instead of obloid.org
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tantek wagle - you can fix that
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wagle i did.. cant delete www.obloid.org though
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@t Two wonderful talks on #privacy #ownyourdata #indieweb by @caseorganic: http://www.youtube.com/ http://vimeo.com/86329113 (ttk.me t4UZ1) (twitter.com/_/status/433768955006976000)
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wagle nevermind, i seem to have created obloid.com
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tantek ok posted. and once again, Twitter only shows one video, while the permalink on my site embeds both. :P
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aaronpk sure wish I could click the link to ttk.me from this irc window ;)
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tantek hah! eventually :)
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tantek I think once I start showing webmentions
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aaronpk that's a good criteria
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tantek then I'll flip the switch to always use permashortlinks
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aaronpk (cringe... /me slaps himself for bad grammar)
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wagle hey, aaronpk, it let me login to obloid.com using my github account, which lists obloid.org (not com)
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aaronpk I see two logins from obloid.org just now
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aaronpk what does it say you're logged in as in the footer of the wiki?
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aaronpk also do you mean s/to/as/?
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wagle it got confused and made me login again.. i accidently tried to login as obloid.com (instead of .org), and it gave me the github method of logging in
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wagle accidentilly the second time
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aaronpk if you type in obloid.com you shouldn't see *any* buttons there since there are no rel-me links on the site (e.g. https://indieauth.com/auth?me=obloid.com&redirect_uri=http%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2FSpecial%3AIndieAuth%3Freturnto%3DMain_Page )
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wagle footer shows Obloid.org
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aaronpk i think everything is fine
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wagle but thats the problem, it DIDNT show me twitter, but DID show me github for obloid.com (I think)
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aaronpk i don't think so
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wagle i'll see if i can show you tomight
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@tahdhaze RT @t: Two wonderful talks on #privacy #ownyourdata #indieweb by @caseorganic: http://www.youtube.com/ http://vimeo.com/86329113 (ttk.me t4UZ1) (twitter.com/_/status/433771458226319360)
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aaronpk ok
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wagle hmm.. maybe not, but it is confused about twitter:
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wagle twitter.com/PerryWagle
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wagle There was an error verifying this provider. Confirm you have a rel="me" link on this site pointing to your website.
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aaronpk twitter's being weird right now because of strange ssl issues
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@kevinmarks RT @t: Two wonderful talks on #privacy #ownyourdata #indieweb by @caseorganic: http://www.youtube.com/ http://vimeo.com/86329113 (ttk.me t4UZ1) (twitter.com/_/status/433779837593862145)
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anselm the indiweb hack thing is tonite?
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@patentmatt RT @t: Two wonderful talks on #privacy #ownyourdata #indieweb by @caseorganic: http://www.youtube.com/ http://vimeo.com/86329113 (ttk.me t4UZ1) (twitter.com/_/status/433780702669045760)
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aaronpk homebrew website club yes. not so much a hack night tho
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acegiak one of htese days I'm gonna need to learn how to use composer
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aaronpk bret: are you coming tonight?
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tantek acegiak I'm still figuring that out myself ;)
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tantek aaronpk - still trying to figure out the video situation
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aaronpk tantek: ok! just getting setu p here
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aaronpk got a much better video situation here now
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acegiak__ does this look right for getting all the h-entries for a page? http://pastebin.com/gjaDKJe9
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tantek ok PDX folks, we're doing separate meetings tonight. I didn't manage to get the video setup coordinated properly tonight.
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tantek sorry about that.
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tantek let's still take notes in IRC if we can?
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tantek maybe prefixed with PDX: or SF: ?
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ngoldman sup paulcp
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: getting ready for Homebrew Website Club - our video link is too hard to configure (twitter.com/_/status/433792419134722048)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: we should spend our time talking rather than doing IT (twitter.com/_/status/433792553708961792)
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@pingidentity RT @t: Two wonderful talks on #privacy #ownyourdata #indieweb by @caseorganic: http://www.youtube.com/ http://vimeo.com/86329113 (ttk.me t4UZ1) (twitter.com/_/status/433792839147732992)
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bret aaronpk is giving an opeing and PDX. were going to start without video
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@kevinmarks #indieweb Brian: I'm Brian, I worked for USGS, got bored. now I'm building my own site, because making HTML from FORTRAN got old (twitter.com/_/status/433793105188630528)
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@OhhSocialMedia RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @kevinmarks: getting ready for Homebrew Website Club - our video link is too hard to configure (twitter.com/_/status/433793190345588737)
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@OhhSocialMedia RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @t: we should spend our time talking rather than doing IT (twitter.com/_/status/433793190957940736)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @jedahan: I work at the Museum of Art, and I have an image for every object in the collection (twitter.com/_/status/433793417421008899)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @jedahan: I found it easier to scrape our own website to get the images than to work on internal politics (twitter.com/_/status/433793544575520768)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @jedahan: I have a little box called "Occupy Here" which creates a local network to upload and share (twitter.com/_/status/433793711139737600)
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@ak2webd3 RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @jedahan: I found it easier to scrape our own website to get the images than to work on internal politics (twitter.com/_/status/433793816080838656)
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gRegor`_ I'm having an out of IRC-body experience.
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gRegor`_ looks at myself
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caseorganic Full room at Portland Homebrew Website Club
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @jedahan: Occupy Here will connect to an uplink if there is one, if not it works locally as a host (twitter.com/_/status/433794193224663041)
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wagle-prime big shift register
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @jedahan: Alan Kay started a new research lab with Vi Hart and some other interesting people (twitter.com/_/status/433794440243970048)
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@ak2webd3 RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @jedahan: Occupy Here will connect to an uplink if there is one, if not it works locally as a host (twitter.com/_/status/433794486536126465)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb Brian: there was a Stanford vis group site based on census data that you could visualize. I want to do this with seismic data (twitter.com/_/status/433794740564533248)
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wagle-prime recollected in main room
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Loqi [@kevinmarks] #indieweb Brian: Maps are what I'm most interested in
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Loqi I want very specific comments with permalinks (http://twtr.io/i2hACzdCyf)
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tantek we've got 9 here @MozSF so far
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bret we relocated
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anselm gah
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bret because we had too many people, now in the main room
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caseorganic tantek: we have 13
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@kevinmarks #indieweb Brian: After an earthquake the USGS updates the event (twitter.com/_/status/433795113769500672)
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tantek caseorganic wow!
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@kevinmarks #indieweb Brian: there a projects looking at getting reports form twitter- I'd like to mesh them all together (twitter.com/_/status/433795260142354432)
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bret I attribute that to me not advertising the event ;)
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tantek netsplit!
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bret jk
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caseorganic tantek: re earlier comment on talks - thanks very much! i'll edit the slides in question (re change dates from convo last night, etc)
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caseorganic woah net split
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@Shoq RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb Brian: there a projects looking at getting reports form twitter- I'd like to mesh them all together (twitter.com/_/status/433795405592403968)
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tantek great!
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@Shoq RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb Brian: After an earthquake the USGS updates the event (twitter.com/_/status/433795457169756162)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb Brian: I'm just glad to not be using FORTRAN (twitter.com/_/status/433795490761936897)
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bret aaron Pareki: http://aaronparecki.com
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @snarfed_org: I run a service called brid,gy check it out. I switched my personal site to SSL for everyone (twitter.com/_/status/433795632638464001)
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bret working on posting clients
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @snarfed_org: mainly people who use privacy tools are a minority. We should make encryption the default (twitter.com/_/status/433795761424572416)
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bret aaronpk: improving the UI in his site due the activity generated by brid.gy
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tantek snarfed: SSL by default helps set a cultural expectation
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pdx-wagle aaronpk: is introing himself
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @snarfed_org: the more people using SSL, the less suspicious it is by default (twitter.com/_/status/433795849471406080)
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tantek … slowly helps other people's privacy
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pdx-wagle eric now
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aaronpk edrex: eric.pdxhub.org - static site generated using harp pushed to s3, haven't pushed to it in a few months
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aaronpk now working on collaborative writing app pillowfork.com
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @snarfed_org: for whatever stack you use, there is a write-up. You can get free certs for open source projects (twitter.com/_/status/433796055595892736)
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@xtof_fr RT @t: Two wonderful talks on #privacy #ownyourdata #indieweb by @caseorganic: http://www.youtube.com/ http://vimeo.com/86329113 (ttk.me t4UZ1) (twitter.com/_/status/433796133174132736)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: there are good writeups on the indiewebcamp wiki for Apache and nginx for SSL (twitter.com/_/status/433796199196680192)
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acegiak__ oh shit. looks like my integrating php-mf2 worked first time?
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @snarfed_org: turning on SSL is an hour to a half day of work, but it's a break from coding (twitter.com/_/status/433796299012706306)
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aaronpk pdx: benjamitchait.net - interested in publishing and what that looks like in the maodern day,
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aaronpk pdx: caseorganic.com - been interested in this since wordpress in 2003, used to be prolific blogging on her own site
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aaronpk but everything getting eaten away by getting distracted by these social networks
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aaronpk now posts on her own site and syndicates - using p3k and bridgy
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acegiak__ aarronpk: your h-entries arent wrapped in a h-feed?
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aaronpk gave a talk last week in amsetrdam about privacy and data ownership
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @joshuajuran: I am intrigued by everything being a file, and how far I could push that (twitter.com/_/status/433797062233452544)
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aaronpk pdx: bret.io - at PSU studying physics - found indiewebcamp 2013
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@_LauraEvans_ RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @jedahan: I found it easier to scrape our own website to get the images than to work on internal politics (twitter.com/_/status/433797117732458497)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @joshuajuran: FreeMount https://github.com/jjuran/freemount is my codebase for distributing apps in file-based way (twitter.com/_/status/433797216185360384)
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aaronpk decided to quit facebook and post only on his own site. started a jekyll site, pushing the basic indieweb features into it, but now getting tired of designing around the limitations of static sites and is now exploring node.js
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aaronpk pdx: naomi - naomiyaki.com
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aaronpk recently became a domain reseller through tucows, has access to .in, so bought naomi.rub.in
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @joshuajuran: the bytecode I have selected is the Motorola 68K machine [sounds like QTOS - @peterkinoma] (twitter.com/_/status/433797609934057472)
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tantek whoa - very cool!
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aaronpk she does a lot of front-end work and web development, also illustration and comics
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aaronpk and wordpress customation for comics distribution online
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aaronpk lately been super hung up on using something to collect a lot of images for inspiration (download lots of pictures of boats and learn how to draw boats from that)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @jedahan: they redefined the syllables to be pronounced by runes, and they built a system based on that (twitter.com/_/status/433797994950168577)
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aaronpk pdx: anne-marie - background in musicology, but wants to rebrand herslef as a personal social experiment
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tantek (really bummed we're missing the video feed from PDX - having virtual FOMO!)
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aaronpk pdx: ngoldman (ngoldman.me) - jekyll blog not updated in about a year
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aaronpk interested in exploring indieweb stuff and getting his site set up
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @joshuajuran: more of my code is up at http://www.metamage.com/ I plan to merge this into a useful git repo (twitter.com/_/status/433798563286745088)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb Zack: I've been doing contract work at a law firm, and I need to find people who speak my language a bit more (twitter.com/_/status/433798800109735936)
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aaronpk pdx: emma quo (sp?) - doesn't currently have a website, but used to use livejournal, but also built software to run a personal blog a long time ago
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acegiak__ well I just made my own goddamned day: https://github.com/acegiak/WhisperFollow/commit/97283f95868170da00be180d799b6fb9af9af03b
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @ZSsDesign: It's been a culture shock moving here from Dallas, especially living in Marin County (twitter.com/_/status/433799007950086144)
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aaronpk hasn't really liked many of the current social media offerings so hasn't been involved
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aaronpk Emma Kuo
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aaronpk photo of PDX tonight: http://aaronparecki.com/uploads/homebrew-website-club-pdx-20140212-190504.png
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aaronpk pdx: Crystal Beasley - product designer at Mozilla crystalbeasley.com
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aaronpk finished up two years of working on mozilla persona
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aaronpk looking forward to new projects at mozilla, how we can make the browser more about people less about silos
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@debs @kevinmarks what's with the #indieweb tag - me like! (twitter.com/_/status/433799286082797568)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I'd like to bring up webmentions of homepages (twitter.com/_/status/433799354605109248)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: webmention is simplified pingback where you cna tell if there is post, a reply, an RSVP etc. (twitter.com/_/status/433799448389750784)
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aaronpk also pitching an ephemeral group chat, kind of like IRC but in an interface people are more used to
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aaronpk mobile first, but desktop as well
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: webmentions have mostly been used for permalink to permalink, but we do mention people by name (twitter.com/_/status/433799534788218880)
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aaronpk "like snapchat but for chat"
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: on Twitter and Facebook you have mentions pages for when people refer to you (twitter.com/_/status/433799670260043776)
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aaronpk pdx: anselm hook (hook.org)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: Invitations are interesting for this too - you can webmention their homepage to invite them (twitter.com/_/status/433799771338584064)
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aaronpk made up of lots of data objects stored in the filesystem. takes everything public and puts it onto the homepage
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aaronpk wants to make a more group centric view pulling in content from others' sites as well
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bret hook.org looking at groupcentric object/data sharing
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aaronpk like an indie version of facebook that is more group centered. start with an aggregator.
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bret Interesting idea, do I always hae to posst to my own site? what about posting group pools when I feel that is more appropriate
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: inviting people to a chatroom - mentioning them so they come to a place. would a webmention work? (twitter.com/_/status/433800439470247936)
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bret aaronpk pointed out that the indieweb reply context is a live example of this
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aaronpk pdx: perry wagle - obloid.org
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @snarfed_org: would a webmention per message work, or is this for inviting them into a conversation? (twitter.com/_/status/433800580403048448)
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aaronpk interested in permanent archiving of photos
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: webmention may be a bit heavyweight - it would work for starting a conversation (twitter.com/_/status/433800713987432448)
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aaronpk that will last beyond one person's lifetime
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benjaminchait pdx: benjaminchait.net
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: @aaronpk has built a model for keeping conversations live over websockets using replies (twitter.com/_/status/433800876814532608)
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aaronpk pdx: andysylvester.com
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aaronpk "i feel like i'm older than a lot of people in this room"
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KevinMarks shouts out for the old people
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aaronpk aerospace engineer who has done software development - lockheed, nasa, rockwell collins
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aaronpk heard about indiewebcamp last year, jumped in a couple months ago, started reading teh wiki, made a video about setting upi webmention with wordpress
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aaronpk coming at it from the user perspective, not likely to have time to build lots of stuff, but wants to help people understand the ideas
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @jedahan: webmentions work as conversations between client and host? 2 hosts are involved (twitter.com/_/status/433801511920214016)
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aaronpk http://andysylvester.com/2014/02/11/my-indieweb-areas-of-interest/
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @snarfed_org: using webmention for email-like conversations could work, with address by url not email (twitter.com/_/status/433801856490668032)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: what we're looking at with idno is that there are keys embedded in the page that can be used to sign (twitter.com/_/status/433802038095675392)
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anselm "twitter shows us that having conversations on the web is fun"
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benjaminchait pdx: aaronpk describing philosophy behind indieweb, 'not merely blogging' but communicating and sharing with others. i.e. microformats allowing a site-to-site conversation.
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bret aaronpk is talking about the state of the indieweb: using our own sites to post content that would normally go on facebook/twitter/etc
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bret so far peopl ahve been using microformats to facilitate discussions between sites
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benjaminchait pdx: webmentions https://indiewebcamp.com/webmention
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: on the receiving side, none of us know what to do with homepage mentions (twitter.com/_/status/433802429621354496)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: I have the backend for homepage mentions, but not the frontpage yet Sochi is keeping me busy (twitter.com/_/status/433802682428821504)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: Happy 10th Birthday to microformats! (twitter.com/_/status/433802890227228672)
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benjaminchait pdx: indieweb is not a single codebase, not meant to overdesign. "what are you interested next, on your own site? what is it that you are trying to do, let's focus on trying to get that thing done" - aaronpk
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naomiyaki pdx: what about spam??
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naomiyaki pdx: aaronpk has already had a couple twitter spam bots post to his site
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@snarfed_org RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @snarfed_org: mainly people who use privacy tools are a minority. We should make encryption the default (twitter.com/_/status/433803230489739264)
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naomiyaki pdx: authentication helps tremendously: only display things from people in your social graph
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naomiyaki But it hasn't been a big enough problem for any single person
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@schnarfed RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @snarfed_org: mainly people who use privacy tools are a minority. We should make encryption the default (twitter.com/_/status/433803376216657920)
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@schnarfed RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @snarfed_org: the more people using SSL, the less suspicious it is by default (twitter.com/_/status/433803447318495232)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: the problem with search engines is they have secret sauce and we don't know how it got there. (twitter.com/_/status/433803646711898112)
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@OhhSocialMedia RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @kevinmarks: Happy 10th Birthday to microformats! (twitter.com/_/status/433803693138653184)
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wagle whats "bridgey"? (did I get the spelling right?)
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aaronpk http://brid.gy
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anselm https://indiewebcamp.com/Bridgy
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wagle tx
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naomiyaki pdx: some of the principles of indy web are "self dog-folding" where you can build/show and see things in action
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I've seen images show up from indieweb pages that are form other pages entirely (twitter.com/_/status/433804047859347456)
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naomiyaki Modular like Lego blocks - the Bridgy concept
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @jedahan: you can't run the silo's crawlers is the problem - adding Twitter cards to the Gallery is tricky (twitter.com/_/status/433804266059628544)
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@MaryFletcherr RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @jedahan: Alan Kay started a new research lab with Vi Hart and some other interesting people (twitter.com/_/status/433804376210440192)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @jedahan: If you use a CDN, the tools don't always reflect your site well (twitter.com/_/status/433804433877921794)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @jedahan: we now have a lot of redundant data on our site fro twitter, facebook and google (twitter.com/_/status/433804554652876801)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb Brian: how do you extend microformats? What if I want geopoints? - you can use gel lat long, structured address. (twitter.com/_/status/433804796379033601)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: if we don't know how to do something, we look at published examples in the wold (twitter.com/_/status/433805027136647168)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: a point with #microformats is that they are composable - you can add new elements (twitter.com/_/status/433805327210123264)
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@_BruceAllen_ RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @snarfed_org: mainly people who use privacy tools are a minority. We should make encryption the default (twitter.com/_/status/433805787543396352)
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aaronpk anselm: talking about aggregators - in an ideal world would go find a nodejs aggregator, point it at 3 sites, suck every post down and then render it it in a feed "anselm's view of the world"
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naomiyaki pdx: Bret is giving a side talk about indywebify.me
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@AllisonPowelll RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @snarfed_org: the more people using SSL, the less suspicious it is by default (twitter.com/_/status/433807650045046784)
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naomiyaki Discussing using your website as your online identity in lieu of an email address
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naomiyaki Rel = "me" is part of web identity
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sparverius comcast bought time warner cable
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sparverius prepare for a whirlwind of feces
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anselm http://selfoss.aditu.de/
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anselm maybe i can 1) test php-mf2 2) connect it to selfoss 3) see what it does
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wagle how do you spell selfos?
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wagle d'uh!
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caseorganic tantek: question by benjaminchait: "what happens if brid.gy goes away ? isn'tt that shifting dependence to a different service?
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@kevinmarks Notes from tonight's San Francisco chapter of the Homebrew Website Club: http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2014-02-12.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/433810941784752128)
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caseorganic benjaminchait: http://indiewebify.me/
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benjaminchait naomiyaki - http://indiewebify.me
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naomiyaki pdx: http://webmention.io/ makes it easy to add a webmention end point to any page.
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@RubyCampbelll RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @jedahan: I found it easier to scrape our own website to get the images than to work on internal politics (twitter.com/_/status/433813558036819968)
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tantek we're closing down here at HWC SF
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tantek goodnight Portland!
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Loqi ciao
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tantek caseorganic - bridgy is also opensource - you can run it completely on your own server as well
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@RaymondLee85 RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @kevinmarks: getting ready for Homebrew Website Club - our video link is too hard to configure (twitter.com/_/status/433814803526995968)
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tantek think of brid.gy the service as just bootstrapping for getting the UI working on your own site for comments, mentions, favorites etc. from silo backfeeds
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tantek and then when you have all that UI/UX working
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@kongroove RT @t: Two wonderful talks on #privacy #ownyourdata #indieweb by @caseorganic: http://www.youtube.com/ http://vimeo.com/86329113 (ttk.me t4UZ1) (twitter.com/_/status/433814912037830656)
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tantek you can switch to running the bridgy backend on your own site
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caseorganic tantek: goodnight, sf!
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tantek caseorganic, HTH!
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KartikPrabhu caseorganic: loved the Rise of the IndieWeb talk at FutureTalks...
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@_DerekSnyder RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @jedahan: Alan Kay started a new research lab with Vi Hart and some other interesting people (twitter.com/_/status/433817603661119488)
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@MogulAzam RT @t: Two wonderful talks on #privacy #ownyourdata #indieweb by @caseorganic: http://www.youtube.com/ http://vimeo.com/86329113 (ttk.me t4UZ1) (twitter.com/_/status/433817844438933504)
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@Foxx_Shannon RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb Brian: After an earthquake the USGS updates the event (twitter.com/_/status/433818120722345985)
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aaronpk anselm: http://indiewebcamp.com/h-entry
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/07/14/1/indieweb
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aaronpk http://werd.io/comic/51e0a67dbed7de5277b4c530/indiecomix-indieweb
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@naomiyaki Lots of excitement over microformats at the #PDX Homebrew Website Club meeting: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-02-12-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/433819939049181185)
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ngoldman [pdx] caseorganic: links from bret's talk that were still in the browser https://gist.github.com/ngoldman/8969769
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@arsetechnica RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @kevinmarks: Happy 10th Birthday to microformats! (twitter.com/_/status/433822172289568768)
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aaronpk ngoldman++
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Loqi ngoldman has 292 karma
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naomiyaki Thanks so much everyone! Can't wait 'till next time.
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caseorganic KartikPrabhu: thanks very much! glad you liked the talk! if you have any suggestions for making it better, let me know!
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@ungoldman Links from @bretolius talk on the anatomy of an indieweb site: https://gist.github.com/ngoldman/8969769 #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/433823555965296642)
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@_Stacey_Howell RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @snarfed_org: the more people using SSL, the less suspicious it is by default (twitter.com/_/status/433825367644991488)
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@Cloudy_Mine Join the CloudyMine revolution at https://www.facebook.com/ownyourdata #Dropbox (twitter.com/_/status/433826023310761984)
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@kloptbaze Rise of the IndieWeb - Amber Case - FutureTalks http://www.youtube.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/433828516837478400)
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@_BarryWayne_ RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @kevinmarks: Happy 10th Birthday to microformats! (twitter.com/_/status/433832196059983872)
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KartikPrabhu anyone here use Django for their website
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aaronpk SCORE! Just hacked up a microformats-2 source for the selfoss reader!
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@_OliviaJenkins RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb Brian: After an earthquake the USGS updates the event (twitter.com/_/status/433832635123924992)
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acegiak aaronpk: rad!
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acegiak aaronpk: is there a way to do relpies etc from selfoss?
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aaronpk no idea
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aaronpk i literally just installed it, wrote the adapter, and that's it
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acegiak haha ok
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@top_webtech Top popular tags webtech: 1^ #indieweb 2^ #marketerosnocturnos 3^ #Venezuela 4^ #LaSalida 5^ #Tech http://webtech.twirus.com (twitter.com/_/status/433833688485609472)
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acegiak I just got whisperfollow to read mf2 today as well
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@leninadan RT @top_webtech: Top popular tags webtech: 1^ #indieweb 2^ #marketerosnocturnos 3^ #Venezuela 4^ #LaSalida 5^ #Tech http://webtech.twirus.com (twitter.com/_/status/433834091750760448)
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caseorganic Awesome meetup today in PDX! Notes to come soon.
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aaronpk gonna take a ton of work of cleaning things up and validating, but it's working for aaronparecki.com and caseorganic.com right now
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aaronpk also having trouble getting author photos, but here is an example!
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/uploads/selfoss_-_example_microformats-2_parsing-20140212-212928.png
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acegiak aaronpk: man that's much prettier than mine
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acegiak aaronpk: your h-entrys aren't wrapped in a h-feed from what I can see. is this normal and do I need to allow for it?
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aaronpk acegiak: oh yeah, mine aren't because we didn't have the idea of wrapping in an h-feed until later
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acegiak aaronpk: should I adjust to allow that or is it reasonable that in the future most things will wrap with h-feed?
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acegiak cause at the moment I'm using super simple traversal that where I explicitly state teh structure
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aaronpk i haven't updated my site yet. i can't remember whether the thought was to allow for both or not
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aaronpk !tell barnabywalters can you think of a reason the latest version of the php-mf2 parser wouldn't find my p-author on a post like http://aaron.pk/n4UY1 ? it's just not showing up in the properties from what I can tell
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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acegiak.machinespirit.net edited /reader (+467) "/* Indieweb examples */" (view diff)
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@_KarlFisher RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @snarfed_org: the more people using SSL, the less suspicious it is by default (twitter.com/_/status/433841498036404224)
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acegiak.machinespirit.net edited /reader (+10) "I am bad at wiki formatting" (view diff)
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@_BruceAllen_ RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @t: @aaronpk has built a model for keeping conversations live over websockets using replies (twitter.com/_/status/433846270525202432)
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@AllisonPowelll RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @kevinmarks: Happy 10th Birthday to microformats! (twitter.com/_/status/433847510785085440)
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caseorganic !tell tantek hey, this is out of date! http://microformats.org/code/hcard/creator
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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anselm http://makerlab.com/indieweb/
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@Cloudy_Mine Cookies are for Cookie Monster, not for your browser. Tell @facebook you don't like browser cookies & want them disabled. #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/433859538169524224)
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KartikPrabhu Cloudy_Mine is really something
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KartikPrabhu I think ownyourdata has become a buzzword!
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caseorganic anselm: !
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caseorganic anselm: sweet, will add to the notes!
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aaronpk anselm: awesome!!
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Loqi tantek: caseorganic left you a message 42 minutes ago: hey, this is out of date! http://microformats.org/code/hcard/creator
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tantek heh - it is on github ;)
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aaronpk we stopped at the bar for amber to write up her post and stumbled into a live news broadcast here :)
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aaronpk this seemed like an appropriate thing to do http://instagram.com/p/kWNl2djciN/
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tantek aaronpk - love your grinning mug in that
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aaronpk lol
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Jihaisse Hello
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tantek please tag that #photobomb
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aaronpk haha great
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tantek Jihaisse - are you on a hello timer?
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tantek sees a pattern
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Jihaisse hum
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Jihaisse just arriving at work :)
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: haha! good job
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Jihaisse tantek: it's morning routine
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aaronpk man they talk about twitter so much on tv now
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Jihaisse in france too
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aaronpk they have pieces of paper in front of them with tweets printed out and they read them
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Jihaisse Hollande met facebook twitter and google
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aaronpk hasn't watched live tv in a long time
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aaronpk i'm only watching it cause it's actually live in front of me now
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Jihaisse that's the big news in france
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aaronpk oh here we go again i'm on tv again while typing in irc. this is a strange experience.
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Jihaisse aaronpk: do you think you can interact with yourself ?
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aaronpk i think the delay is not quite long enough for that
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tantek aaronpk, so what you're saying is that the Twitter is syndicating to paper, and from paper to TV.
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aaronpk lol!
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aaronpk for all i know it came from the studio to the bar via fax!
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tantek aaronpk - did you guys get a photo in PDX?
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tantek we were up to 12 at our peak in SF
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aaronpk yes!
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aaronpk i posted it in the channel earlier, let me find it
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/uploads/homebrew-website-club-pdx-20140212-190504.png
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aaronpk we had 13!
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aaronpk oops i uploaded that as a png, lol
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tantek lol indeed!
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aaronpk it's on flickr too http://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronpk/12491857204/
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-02-12-homebrew-website-club (+1) "markup tweak" (view diff)
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tantek I think I'm just going to upload to the wiki
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:hwc-2014-043-sf.jpg]]""
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aaronpk you can upload mine too if you want
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aaronpk i rigged up Skitch to be able to upload directly to my site which is where that URL came from
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tantek aaronpk - also - do you have a photo from 2014-01-15? http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club#Photos
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aaronpk (see http://caseorganic.com/articles/2014/02/10/1/my-domain-now-supports-skitch-uploads)
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aaronpk yes I believe so, one sec
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-02-12-homebrew-website-club (+109) "/* Photos */ add SF photo" (view diff)
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marcthiele Good morning from Germany.
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aaronpk tantek: http://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronpk/12215504434/
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aaronpk oh wiat wrong one
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tantek and when you've uploaded / linked 2014-01-15, here's tonight's: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-02-12-homebrew-website-club#Photos
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aaronpk i'm on ipad right now, not sure if that works
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aaronpk will try
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aaronpk ah yes http://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronpk/11991921366/
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tantek heh - I uploaded from my iPod ;)
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aaronpk well then
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aaronpk heh just used indieauth sms to sign in on my ipad. that was nice
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tantek woot!
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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aaronpk clicked link on ipad, read sms on pebble watch, signed in!
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wagle oh yeah, just had google+ remind me in force: greader's problem was its SLOWNESS
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wagle a few of us knew to use adblockplus to speed it up, but no wonder noone used it
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wagle someone sent me a google+ blookmark that took 3 minutes or more to load
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wagle https://plus.google.com/111049168280159033135/posts/MfJ8arSFjCi
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:hwc-2014-02-12-pdx.jpg]]""
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tantek wagle - yeah G+ perf has gotten significantly worse over the past few weeks.
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aaronparecki.com edited /Special:Log/upload () "uploaded a new version of "[[File:hwc-2014-02-12-pdx.jpg]]"" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-02-12-homebrew-website-club (+38) "/* Portland */ photo!" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-02-12-homebrew-website-club (+80) "/* Photos */ present but not pictured" (view diff)
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wagle people were trying to tell me that google was just going with the flow, that RSS really was dead
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wagle tell me tonight
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:hwc-2014-01-15-pdx.jpg]]""
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club (+119) "/* Photos */ add pdx photo" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com created /indo (+17) "redirect" (view diff)
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tantek heh
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caseorganic.com edited /events/2014-02-12-homebrew-website-club (+189) "/* Notes */ Added Portland edition notes for meeting" (view diff)
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aaronpk super awesome notes! http://caseorganic.com/articles/2014/02/12/3/homebrew-website-club-newsletter-volume-2-issue-3---portland-edition
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caseorganic.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+236) "/* 2014 */ Added notes from Homebrew website club" (view diff)
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@caseorganic Tonight's Homebrew Website Meetup was awesome! Notes are here: http://caseorganic.com/articles/2014/02/12/3/homebrew-website-club-newsletter-volume-2-issue-3---portland-edition #indieweb (http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/02/13/1/indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/433885679815118848)
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@kevinisageek Software Society: The Indieweb Movement #indieweb http://kevinisageek.org/2014/02/13/software-society-the-indieweb-movement/ (twitter.com/_/status/433891164832296961)
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cweiske.de edited /projects (+50) "/* Pingback2hook */ link to github" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /projects (+46) "/* stapibas */ link related projects" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /projects (-223) "/* experimental */ move stapibas to other projects, sort experimental projects a bit" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /projects (+79) "/* ownCloud */" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /ownCloud (+80) (view diff)
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@pfefferle Amber Case über Privacy und das IndieWeb http://notizblog.org/2014/02/13/amber-case-ueber-privacy-und-das-indieweb/ http://notizblog.org/2014/02/13/amber-case-ueber-privacy-und-das-indieweb/ (twitter.com/_/status/433903279966146560)
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@AAinslie RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @t: @aaronpk has built a model for keeping conversations live over websockets using replies (twitter.com/_/status/433908750282653696)
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Loqi barnabywalters: aaronpk left you a message 4 hours, 58 minutes ago: can you think of a reason the latest version of the php-mf2 parser wouldn't find my p-author on a post like http://aaron.pk/n4UY1 ? it's just not showing up in the properties from what I can tell
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barnabywalters !tell aaronpk really? post and comment authors all show up fine for me on pin13 http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faaronparecki.com%2Fnotes%2F2014%2F02%2F11%2F1%2Femail-bankruptcy and on my endpoint
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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barnabywalters !tell aaronpk also, interesting use of h-cite there! I would recommend using .p-comment.h-cite so they aren’t just children of the post though — currently to mf consumers it looks like your note is citing *them*
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu barnabywalters: http://waterpigs.co.uk/php-mf2/? does not correctly escape html characters in e-content-html property
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barnabywalters KartikPrabhu: that is correct — added to my todo list, thanks!
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KartikPrabhu example html:
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KartikPrabhu <article class="h-entry">
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KartikPrabhu <div class="e-content">
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KartikPrabhu <h1 class="p-name>Title</h1>
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KartikPrabhu Lorem
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KartikPrabhu </div>
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KartikPrabhu </article>
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KartikPrabhu realises no multiline message in irc
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michielbdejong trying to "bangalore" Docker packaging of all existing Indie Web software packages, so that i & others can offer Docker-based hosting for them further down the road: https://hasjob.co/view/kk56b
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KartikPrabhu michielbdejong: didn't realise 'bangalore' was used as a verb! :)
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michielbdejong KartikPrabhu: yeah, i have 'bangalored' myself right now actually :)
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michielbdejong life here is cheap, but the tech scene is very competent, so an ideal situation for non-commercial software projects
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michielbdejong although the verb tends to be used for tech support and call centre jobs that get outsourced from Europe/US to here
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KartikPrabhu Yeah I have lived in Bangalore or Bangy as we called it. It really was the go to place for techies a few years back
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neuro` michielbdejong: instead of "non commercial", I'd use "independant", as "non commercial" does not contain the self dogfooding part which is a key component of Indiewebcamp
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barnabywalters michielbdejong: RE https://hasjob.co/view/kk56b you’ll have a hard time writing a docker package for taproot, it’s not open sourced yet ;)
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neuro` Hello barnabywalters
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barnabywalters morning neuro`
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barnabywalters okay KartikPrabhu my php-mf2 endpoint should be HTML-encoded correctly now
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KartikPrabhu yup works!
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barnabywalters woot
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KartikPrabhu was using it to see if p-name can be inside e-content
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barnabywalters KartikPrabhu: that should work fine
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KartikPrabhu yeah! made my life simpler :P
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barnabywalters generally properties can be nested like that with no side-effects, though I suspect that embedding name within content is going to cause some unusual presentation issues
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barnabywalters e.g. when parsed as a comment and the name shown alongside the content, there’ll be two copies of the name
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KartikPrabhu aah! interesting...
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KartikPrabhu shouldn't parsers then take the p-name out or something?
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barnabywalters KartikPrabhu: well, the header containing the name isn’t really part of the content of the article
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barnabywalters found an example: benwerd’s articles do this, see how they look in a feed reader: http://waterpigs.co.uk/intertubes/feed/
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barnabywalters (might take a few secs to load, there’s no caching yet)
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KartikPrabhu loaded quite fast actually. interesting case. wonder what benwerd's pov on this is
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barnabywalters in the other cases, where the name is either the same as the note content, or is longer than it, the reader automatically detects that the name shouldn’t be shown
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barnabywalters let’s find out
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barnabywalters !tell benwerd interested in your take on including article name markup in e-content, currently produces results like this in feedreader: http://waterpigs.co.uk/intertubes/feed/
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu cool! I'll keep my markup as is for the moment
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@xtof_fr @fdevillamil ok mercredi 19 soir pour réunion prépro #indiewebcamp #homebrew ... @botify - une adresse ? @nitot tu nous rejoins ? bise (twitter.com/_/status/433922886038876160)
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acegiak so I'm looking at ding article name markup in e-content, currently produces results like this in feedreader: http://waterpigs.co.uk/intertubes/
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acegiak ugh goddamn it irssi
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barnabywalters acegiak: if you go to http://waterpigs.co.uk/intertubes/new you can make your own temporary feedreader
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acegiak I'm looking at http://indiewebcamp.com/repost and it seems to suggest that a repost should have the content of of the the thing in it's own contet area?
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barnabywalters acegiak: I think only sandeepshetty has implemented reposts so far, and he hasn’t used them much
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acegiak ok
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barnabywalters pretty sure his reposts did include the whole body of the content
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barnabywalters but it’s a ripe area for experimentation
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acegiak yeah
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acegiak tumblr allows you to tack comment onto a reblog
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acegiak which is what I do with whisperfollow
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acegiak so I put the original content in full in the reply context
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acegiak also on the topic of readers, this was my achievement for today: https://github.com/acegiak/WhisperFollow/commit/97283f95868170da00be180d799b6fb9af9af03b
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acegiak your mf2 library is lovely to use
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barnabywalters acegiak: thanks, and nice work! intrigued by use of -> syntax — Mf2\parse() returns an array
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barnabywalters and I can’t see you casting to object anywhere
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acegiak barnabywalters: seems to work?
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barnabywalters weird! what version of PHP are you using?
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acegiak have you posted anything to waterpigs today?
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acegiak barnabywalters: a very good question! (I am the worst server admin)
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acegiak let me go look
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barnabywalters also, $item['type'] is going to be an array like ["h-card"]
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barnabywalters so doing an == comparison with a string is unlikely to produce effective results
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barnabywalters you’re better off doing something like in_array("h-feed", $item["type"])
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barnabywalters doing this sort of stuff is what I built http://github.com/barnabywalters/mf-cleaner for — it might be useful for you
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barnabywalters oops, that should be https://github.com/barnabywalters/php-mf-cleaner
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barnabywalters so you could do, for example, Mf2\findMicroformatsByType($mf, 'h-entry')
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barnabywalters to get an array of all the h-entries on the page
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acegiak barnabywalters: well you've sold me on it, the question is can I use it without composer?
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acegiak because to be honest composer scares me a little
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barnabywalters acegiak: sure, it should just be a matter of including https://github.com/barnabywalters/php-mf-cleaner/blob/master/src/BarnabyWalters/Mf2/Functions.php
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acegiak I'll give it a shot
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barnabywalters great! let me know if you have any issues, it hasn’t been used by as many people as php-mf2 and so could probably do with some improvements :)
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acegiak.machinespirit.net edited /repost (+190) "tumblr reblog comment issue" (view diff)
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cweiske is there an alternative microformat parsing implementation in PHP?
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barnabywalters so can whisperfollow now follow pages using mf2 markup as well as RSS?
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barnabywalters cweiske: not yet, as far as I know
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acegiak barnabywalters: yeah!
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jkphl acegiak: you might also use https://github.com/jkphl/micrometa which uses php-mf2 internally and provides some convenience methods for that case you mentiond above (if i might dare do this little house advertising)
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barnabywalters acegiak: wow, great! what does it look like? public URL/screenshot?
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barnabywalters jkphl: advertise away, it’s all open source ;)
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acegiak I'll post screenshots in a bit? I'm just looking into the structure thing
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acegiak barnabywalters: will that library accidentally pick up nested h-entry stuff?
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barnabywalters acegiak: IIRC yes, but it’s unlikely to cause any issues
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jkphl barnabywalters: just didn't want to be too obtrusive ... ;)
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barnabywalters as comments should be marked up as h-cite, as p-comment properties of h-entries
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barnabywalters basically, any h-entry on a page you own should should be a post you have published
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barnabywalters an both using h-feed with nested h-entries, or just h-entries on a page are both perfectly valid ways of publishing feeds of posts
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acegiak hmmm
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barnabywalters for the moment, at least — maybe all this awesome experimentation in consuming mf feeds will help provide some consensus
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acegiak the thing is I'm modelling my setup on the tumblr reblog because I find tumblr quite comfortable
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acegiak so when I comment on something I get it's whole content and shove it in a blockquote
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acegiak which I markup as the reply-context
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barnabywalters acegiak: right, so that’s a perfect place to use h-cite
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acegiak which I'm doing
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barnabywalters since you’re not explicitly re-publishing that content (which would be an h-entry), but rather citing it as an external source
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barnabywalters acegiak: oh cool — so was there an issue which needed clarifying?
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acegiak ok doesn't look like it's been a problem on any of my reblogs so far
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acegiak http://acegiak.machinespirit.net/2013/10/25/tantek-celik-why-drm-is-bad-for-users-oss-browsers-the-openweb-what-can-we-do-about-it-brendaneich-brendaneich-com201310the-bridge-of-khazad-drm/
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cweiske oh, a new longurl service
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acegiak :D
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barnabywalters yeah, they look fine in intertubes at least — I need to get it showing reply contexts at some point
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KartikPrabhu is Loqi not picking up webmentions anymore?
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /reader (+263) "Prioritised real-world examples over brainstorming, added intertubes with examples" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu new filter by id feature in webmentionsender front-end http://kartikprabhu.com/connection/webmentionsender feedback appreciated.
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barnabywalters KartikPrabhu: intriguing — two questions: why is it useful, and why not use hash fragment to automatically determine ID?
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cweiske barnabywalters, my stapibas tool does the same, only for atom feeds
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cweiske it sends webmentions/pingbacks for all links in a feed
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cweiske so I can use it on my static blog
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KartikPrabhu I use it to filter links that are only in the content and not areas. hash fragment is a good idea though
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acegiak barnabywalters: so you're saying $child->properties->name[0] should be $child['protperties']['name'][0] ?
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barnabywalters cweiske: sure, that’s a great tool to have, but when is the id-limited parsing useful?
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cweiske either ID or #
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cweiske because you don't want to notify the pages in your navigatin
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barnabywalters acegiak: in theory — that or M\getPlaintext($child, 'name')
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cweiske look at http://cweiske.de/tagebuch/219days.htm
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cweiske I only want to notify the linked pages in the content area, not the nav area on the right
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barnabywalters cweiske: ah, okay — I tend to use microformats for that, but id works too
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KartikPrabhu barnabywalters: for instance this happened last time I sent unfiltered mentions http://kartikprabhu.com/article/blogging-dead#responses
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cweiske barnabywalters, so you have auto filtering based on mf2 classes
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cweiske KartikPrabhu, you could do the same
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KartikPrabhu my post parsed the comment permalink as a mention and sent it to itself!!
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barnabywalters cweiske: well, I send webmentions from PHP when the note is posted
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cweiske so you have the note contents only, without framing around
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barnabywalters but if I was implementing a send-webmentions-for-URL service, I would parse in-reply-to and content URLs and mention them
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barnabywalters cweiske: yep, I basically make a list from all URLs in the content field of my note posting form, plus the in-reply-to URL if any, and mention all of them
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@INVISPIDE Rise of the IndieWeb - Amber Case - FutureTalks - YouTube http://www.youtube.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/433935124196241408)
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cweiske so you don't have the problem
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KartikPrabhu barnabywalters: cweiske: yes mf2 filter is the goal, but I'm sort of waiting on a good python parser. Also, the post_save hook in my setup does not work. So all of this is a hack
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cweiske I also don't have the problem because I use the atom feed content :)
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cweiske I rather like that my tools are decoupled
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barnabywalters cweiske: yep, that’s a really great thing to do
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barnabywalters KartikPrabhu: yeah, I should do some more work on the python mf parser sometime
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KartikPrabhu I mean to get on that too. there has been considerable interest in getting it to work from others
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KartikPrabhu barnabywalters: do you have your own mf2 python parser code?
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barnabywalters KartikPrabhu: nope, I’ve contributed to tommorris’s code in the past
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KartikPrabhu aah I know of that
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tommorris apologises profusely for his completely abandonment of that.
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KartikPrabhu tommorris: quite a few people seem to be interested in picking it up. So thanks for getting it started...
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barnabywalters installs mercurial on new machine so I can contribute again
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acegiak barnabywalters: how can I check if there's been an error parsing?
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barnabywalters acegiak: what sort of error?
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acegiak like if it fails to parse will it just return an empty array?
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barnabywalters acegiak: if php-mf2 doesn’t find any microformats items will be an empty array, yep
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acegiak cool
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barnabywalters php-mf2 has no real concept of errors
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barnabywalters parsing always works, unless the HTML it’s given is too broken for DOMDocument to handle
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barnabywalters you can try it out with arbitrary HTML here: http://waterpigs.co.uk/php-mf2/
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acegiak yeah no the confusion was aaronpk's lack of h-feed again >.<
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acegiak I need to work out a way around that
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acegiak I wish php has the equivalent of c#'s ?? operator
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barnabywalters acegiak: might ?: do something similar?
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barnabywalters https://igor.io/2014/01/08/functional-library-traversal.html is another take on a similar problem
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@cstanhope RT @caseorganic: Tonight's Homebrew Website Meetup was awesome! Notes are here: http://caseorganic.com/articles/2014/02/12/3/homebrew-website-club-newsletter-volume-2-issue-3---portland-edition #indieweb (http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/02/13/1/indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/433940737256734720)
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acegiak barnabywalters: ternary is what I'm gonna have to use
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acegiak ?? is basically a short form null check ternary in c#
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acegiak use right if left is null
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barnabywalters does PHP ?: not do that? e.g. $thing1 ?: $thing2 ?: $thing3
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barnabywalters should give you the first non-null item
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acegiak hmmm
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acegiak maybe my item isn't as null as I thought
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acegiak oh christ I need to sleep I'm making the dumbest mistakes
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KartikPrabhu needs to sleep before studying mf2py
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acegiak barnabywalters: yeah no, findMicroformatsByType is dying
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acegiak wait no my include is wrong
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acegiak goddamnit
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acegiak looks like I've lost some code at some point
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Loqi hehe
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acegiak ok sleepy time
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@ScottyJordan @PeopleofSwindon I have been looking at this recently - http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/433972016962891776)
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snarfed a
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snarfed oops, disregard that :P
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barnabywalters THE GREAT SNARFED HAS SPOKEN
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barnabywalters HE HAS DECLARED THE LETTER a TO BE ABOVE ALL OTHERS
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snarfed YES
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snarfed ALSO
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snarfed I COMMAND YOU TO BRING ME A SANDWICH
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snarfed ...
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snarfed THAT IS ALL
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barnabywalters okay, I’ll stick it in the post. should get to the US in a week or so ;)
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snarfed lol
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snarfed also! on an unrelated note. i'm starting to think about POSSE as a service
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barnabywalters looks for a sandwich unicode char…
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snarfed hah
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snarfed i drafted a few notes here: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/10 . feedback is welcome!
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snarfed if there's interest, i can generalize it into a 'POSSE service best practices' wiki page
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barnabywalters snarfed: sounds great!
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gRegor` ALL HAIL "a"
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snarfed REMINDER: I ACCEPT SACRIFICES
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snarfed SANDWICHES AND DOGECOIN PREFERRED
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snarfed IDEALLY VIA rel-payment/u-x-payment
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snarfed THAT IS ALL
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barnabywalters snarfed: heh, I don’t see any such payment links on http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsnarfed.org%2F
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snarfed they're spiritual
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snarfed can't be captured by your lowly mortal parsers
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snarfed but they definitely exist!
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snarfed definitely
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@debs FYI - 10 = tin/aluminum ;) RT @kevinmarks: Happy 10th Birthday to microformats! #indieweb @t (twitter.com/_/status/433995300223864832)
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@OhhSocialMedia RT @debs: FYI - 10 = tin/aluminum ;) RT @kevinmarks: Happy 10th Birthday to microformats! #indieweb @t (twitter.com/_/status/433995674393530369)
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Loqi benwerd: barnabywalters left you a message 5 hours, 20 minutes ago: interested in your take on including article name markup in e-content, currently produces results like this in feedreader: http://waterpigs.co.uk/intertubes/feed/
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benwerd !tell barnabywalters Aware of that problem for myself, thanks for being the first external reader to also bring it up. Hopefully gone today!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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barnabywalters is here already ;)
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Loqi barnabywalters: benwerd left you a message 1 minute ago: Aware of that problem for myself, thanks for being the first external reader to also bring it up. Hopefully gone today!
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barnabywalters benwerd: so presumably you are progressing with reader experimentations if you’ve noticed it yourself?
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tommorris have similar problems in Facebook
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benwerd barnabywalters: not as far as you clearly have :)
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barnabywalters benwerd: heh :) — you’ve seen the editing UI, right? http://waterpigs.co.uk/intertubes/feed/edit/
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benwerd WHOA. No I had not.
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barnabywalters yeah, my “feed reader” is actually a microformats-oriented flow-based programming environment
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barnabywalters the idea being to experiment with the consequences of making a programming environment beautiful enough to use as a feed reader
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benwerd of course it is
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benwerd man
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benwerd that's impressive
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benwerd really cool.
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barnabywalters thanks :) haven’t worked much on it for a while, but have lots of ideas
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barnabywalters here’s a more interesting example of the sort of thing you can do with it: http://waterpigs.co.uk/intertubes/people-ive-talked-to-recently/edit/
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barnabywalters it takes a little while to run — making it go fast is high up on the priority list
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benwerd "content from people I have meetings with today" would be an interesting search too
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barnabywalters oooh yeah
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@INVISPIDE Rise of the IndieWeb - Amber Case - FutureTalks - YouTube http://www.youtube.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/434008850816311296)
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barnabywalters benwerd: you probably already know about this markup thing too, but your checkin posts have a bunch of javascript in the name property
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benwerd barnabywalters: yep, that's a bug
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barnabywalters oh yeah, I see it here https://github.com/idno/idno/issues/184
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barnabywalters will check github first in future
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barnabywalters I wonder if that’s actually something which could be handled by the mf parser
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barnabywalters I doubt contents of <script> elements are ever intended to be seen by anything other than the browser
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@Cloudy_Mine @eff The Internet can fight back for their data and privacy by using @Cloudy_Mine. Final version will only use SSL/TLS only. #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/434016177023504385)
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@Cloudy_Mine @EFF The Internet can fight back by using @Cloudy_Mine. The final version will use SSL/TLS exclusively. #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/434017020976177152)
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@ShaneHudson Knew it :( Ugh #indieweb RT @missrachilli: Oh nooooo. So, so sad to hear about @GetEditorially shutting down. :( - http://stet.editorially.com/articles/goodbye/ (twitter.com/_/status/434020308446879745)
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@StuRobson @ShaneHudson clarify #indieweb :) (twitter.com/_/status/434021107335979008)
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@ShaneHudson @StuRobson I hashtagged it to send the message into the indieweb irc channel. http://indiewebcamp.com/Principles (twitter.com/_/status/434021260100907008)
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@ShaneHudson @lukejones Have you been following #indieweb? Something I feel very strongly in, think it needs to gain more traction http://indiewebcamp.com/Principles (twitter.com/_/status/434024087896477696)
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jedahan bret - indywebify.me down?
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snarfed it's http://indiewebify.me/
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snarfed KartikPrabhu, tommorris, bear: re the python mf2 parser discussion, i'm now a lot more interested too. i'm thinking about building a POSSE service, so i'd need it for that. https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/10
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snarfed how usable is tommorris's parser for basic stuff right now?
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tommorris pretty shit. it’s pre-alpha
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bear I was looking at it earlier - it is good but has problems with nested items and some other minor nits
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bear like KartikPrabhu - my thought was to start using it, add to it's robustness and docs and then iterate
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snarfed great! if it even mostly works, that's good enough to start with
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snarfed are there any other candidates? i know we've looked at microtron, but iirc it's only mf1, and didn't look easy to update for mf2
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caseorganic.com edited /site-deaths (+507) "/* Upcoming */ Added Editorially shutdown" (view diff)
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bear microtron came the closest but yes, lacks mf2 and any update I did to it broke a *lot* of backwards compat code
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bear I found tom's to be a winner for two reasons: mf2 already and he can be poked ;)
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snarfed bear: heh. good points
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bear I feel that with more than him using it - the update cycle will improve - many hands and all that
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snarfed hope so! i definitely didn't want to write my own, but i'm happy to contribute to an existing one
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snarfed i'll start with mf2py
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bear cool
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snarfed has anyone here ever POSSEd a like or favorite? just curious.
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snarfed thinking about POSSE as a service, it should be pretty easy to support that as well as posts and comments/replies. https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/10
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neuro` Good morning tantek
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snarfed.org edited /User:Snarfed.org (+10) "https!" (view diff)
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caseorganic snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 3 karma
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snarfed aww thanks caseorganic!
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caseorganic snarfed: I was talking with aaronparecki about that this morning
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snarfed good timing
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caseorganic Likes and favorites are important pieces of interactions. I find myself favoriting tweets as a way to "save" them
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snarfed.org edited /Instagram (+56) "API lets you create/delete comments" (view diff)
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snarfed definitely!
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bear I do the same with twitter - because pinboard archives them for me
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bear (once i've marked them as favourites)
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caseorganic and I find that sometimes people favorite tweets instead of responding. as a kind of quiet message of kudos
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bear to be very honest with even myself - some of the more aggressive threads on twitter makes me want to favourite them so I don't show up in the reply thread and end up as troll-fodder
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snarfed there was a mainstream news article on exactly this shift a while ago
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snarfed searched but haven't (re-)found it yet
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snarfed.org edited /Instagram (-10) "API can create/delete likes too" (view diff)
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caseorganic bear: that makes sense. a lot of favoriting behavior for me is just saving. on facebook likes are more social grooming for me.
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caseorganic bear: snarfed: on instagram, though, there's a mix. sometimes a favorite is a kudo (social grooming) and sometimes the favorite is a legitimate save.
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snarfed yup! http://indiewebcamp.com/favorite has similar discussion
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caseorganic flickr handles favorites well. you can also add things to galleries, though i don't know how frequent that behavior is. i think the favorite button on flickr is more purely a "save"
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caseorganic snarfed: thanks for the link
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aaronpk YEAH just set up bridgy for facebook (manual posse for now)
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Loqi aaronpk: barnabywalters left you a message 8 hours, 12 minutes ago: really? post and comment authors all show up fine for me on pin13 http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faaronparecki.com%2Fnotes%2F2014%2F02%2F11%2F1%2Femail-bankruptcy and on my endpoint
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Loqi aaronpk: barnabywalters left you a message 8 hours, 10 minutes ago: also, interesting use of h-cite there! I would recommend using .p-comment.h-cite so they aren’t just children of the post though — currently to mf consumers it looks like your note is citing *them*
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snarfed aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 356 karma
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snarfed i've heard bridgy has a low grade humbling effect on a lot of people
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snarfed "i'm so indieweb! i posse! i do this and that!…"
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snarfed [sign up for bridgy
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snarfed [see a ton of "No post links found" messages…]
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snarfed definitely not intentional on my part, but it is what it is :P
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snarfed and it's as true for me as anyone else
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caseorganic solomon.io just posted about why he's done with social media buttons: http://solomon.io/why-im-done-with-social-media-buttons/
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aaronpk SO COOL to see facebook feedback on my posts! http://aaron.pk/n4U_2 <3 bridgy
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aaronpk bridgy++
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Loqi bridgy has 5 karma
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snarfed definitely! i know the feeling
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caseorganic bridgy++
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KartikPrabhu is there a good guide to mf2 parsing guidelines?
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caseorganic agreed
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Loqi bridgy has 6 karma
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caseorganic snarfed: bridgy has made it much easier to explain how the indieweb works to people
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tantek KartikPrabhu - there's the spec: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing
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snarfed caseorganic: glad to hear it!
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caseorganic snarfed: because the core concern people have is that they lose that conversation when they try to post entirely from their site, even if they syndicate elsewhere those comments don't come back to them
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KartikPrabhu tantek: nice. I was looking at the wrong page.
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snarfed caseorganic: exactly! that was my main motivation
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bear bridgy++
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Loqi bridgy has 7 karma
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caseorganic.com edited /User:Caseorganic.com (+233) "/* Amber Case */ Added pages I watch or edit" (view diff)
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caseorganic.com edited /User:Caseorganic.com (+43) "/* IndieWeb Projects I use */" (view diff)
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snarfed caseorganic: interesting. i looked at https://twitter.com/casebot , clicked on http://t.co/M0PadbBmu0 in your profile, and twitter warned me that it was malicious
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snarfed s/http://t.co/M0PadbBmu0/oakhazelnut.com/
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Loqi snarfed meant to say: caseorganic: interesting. i looked at https://twitter.com/casebot , clicked on //t.co/M0PadbBmu0 in your profile, and twitter warned me that it was malicious
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snarfed sigh, quoting. oakhazelnut.com. (i give up)
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caseorganic snarfed: ah! that's an old domain that is now expired. i should change it
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caseorganic snarfed: my old test domain for blog posts
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Jeena I got two test task from one of the companies I applied to. But I kind of feel that the first question is a trick question. It is: "Write a program to find out how many xml files there are in a directory and its subdirectories.". I do stuff like this with: find . -name "*.xml" | wc -l
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tantek aaronpk, it is surreal seeing the Bridgy FB comments show up on that post http://aaron.pk/n4U_2 while I have it open in a window. Truly magical.
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tantek and the "likes" too
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tantek now about the presentation… why are the images of commenters unlinked, but then followed by a linked fb URL e.g. "facebook.com/28601269" ?
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Jeena I wonder if they know that their commens are shown outside of Facebook.
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snarfed Jeena: agreed! give them that along with the answer they want
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snarfed or just 'rm -rf DIR
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snarfed now the answer is 0'
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Jeena lol
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tantek what if it's an XML file that doesn't use .xml?
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Jeena I wrote that in the text as one of my assumptions
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Jeena that all xml files use the file extension .xml
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tantek by "XML file" do they mean only *well-formed* XML? because if it's not well-formed, can it be called XML?
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snarfed the file cmd is good for that
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Jeena good question, and then what about hidden folders which start with a . for example?
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tantek oh hey - aaronpk I found a bug in the realtime comment updating! The new comments and likes show up but the counts stay stuck at initial load!
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tantek E.g. I see "1 comment 1 like" after the date
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tantek "February 13, 2014 10:46am PST 1 comment 1 like"
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aaronpk yeah heh
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snarfed on the plus side, i love the 'f' watermark. is that pure css?
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aaronpk so I chose to prioritize displaying peoples' domain names over the "p-name" property
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aaronpk but that is kind of weird for facebook URLs. works better for domains and even for twitter users
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snarfed yeah. you could special-case silo u-urls.
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aaronpk yeah I think I'm going to have to do that
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snarfed also partially my fault. bridgy should use facebook nicknames in URLs when available. looks like it always uses ids right now
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aaronpk and I guess the image should be linked too
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tantek perhaps only show root domains?
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aaronpk and if no domain?
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aaronpk or if not a root domain?
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aaronpk and what if it's not a root domain and there is no p-name?
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tantek then no need - it's a duplicate link since their name is already linked
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aaronpk ah I did link the name too, hm
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caseorganic.com edited /Bridgy (+398) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Formatted users of Bridgy page" (view diff)
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tantek nicely done caseorganic! much better.
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caseorganic :)
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caseorganic heading to lunch bbl
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Jeena why does 2.1 and 2.2 start with a lower case?
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Jeena backfeed and send silo interactions
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snarfed Jeena: probably no good reason. feel free to fix!
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Jeena ok
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jeena.net edited /Bridgy (-1) "/* backfeed */" (view diff)
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jeena.net edited /Bridgy (+0) "/* send silo interactions */" (view diff)
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Jeena hehe I had karama of -1 or what does the (-1) mean?
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bear jeena++
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Loqi jeena has 2 karma
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snarfed nah it was probably number of lines removed/added or something similar
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Jeena ah
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snarfed Jeena++
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Loqi Jeena has 3 karma
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bear yes, that is the diff of the change
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Jeena hehe
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Jeena I see
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@lukejones @ShaneHudson that IndieWeb principles thing is awesome, thanks for sharing dude!! (twitter.com/_/status/434057678042963969)
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tantek.com edited /principles (+136) "quoted in WIRED" (view diff)
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@portenkirchner RT @t: Two wonderful talks on #privacy #ownyourdata #indieweb by @caseorganic http://tantek.com/2014/043/t1/wonderful-talks-privacy-ownyourdata-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/434083931952914432)
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@Cloudy_Mine "Like" us on Facebook to get updated information on @Cloudy_Mine and the new features being added to the product. #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/434101430002003969)
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gRegor` Hah. cloudymine.com is now missing it's wp-config.php file, so isn't anything
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KartikPrabhu oh my Cloudy mine aagain
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