#indiewebcamp 2014-02-21

2014-02-21 UTC
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KartikPrabhu should microformat parsers validate url properties in any way?
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tantek KartikPrabhu - what do you mean?
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KartikPrabhu while parsing u-url type properties, should they be validated to be a valid url? or just trust the source?
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KartikPrabhu as in u-url="dud:??fifo.gif" is good?
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tantek microformats parsers merely treat them as strings
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KartikPrabhu ok that answers it
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tantek the only difference is in "u-" parsing details
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:mobile-personal-home-icons-folders-ios7.jpg]]""
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:mobile-personal-home-contact-ios7.jpg]]""
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Jeena wohoo, now after a days work I deployed my Facebook POSSE stuff and made Twitter POSSE much better on the way.
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snarfed congrats Jeena!
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Jeena thanks, next step will be to turn that spagetti code into something more beautiful ^^
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+860) "/* Working On */ mobile home template header icons folders - update mockups for iOS7, move iOS6 mockups to their own section" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (-29) "/* Working On */ updated mockups complete" (view diff)
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tantek it looks like implementing mobile home template header icons folders in the iOS7 look&feel will be much easier than iOS6
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Jeena I always had the problem that if I replied to some website then the tweet would be without the context. Now I add the URL I reply to just before the backlink url, that way Twitter can add the context like here https://twitter.com/jeena/status/436675022443511808
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tantek fewer borders / gradients, simpler design
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tantek hey that's clever Jeena
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Jeena and facebook does the same
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tantek when POSSEing replies to non-Twitter URLs to Twitter, include the non-Twitter in-reply-to URL as the last thing before you permashortlink in the POSSE tweet copy
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Jeena exactly
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Jeena and for Facebook post it as a link with the url you reply to as the link value
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tantek.com edited /Twitter (+429) "/* POSSE Replies to Twitter */ put non-tweet in-reply-to URLs just before permashortlink in reply POSSE tweet copy for potential additional context in when viewed on Twitter" (view diff)
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Jeena nice, thanks for documenting this
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tantek nice approach and thanks for the real world example! I put it in the documentation.
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tantek I have to document it so I can find it again. Otherwise it's likely I'll forget. Or at least stress about forgetting. ;)
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Jeena hehe
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Jeena btw. we can change the first paragraph here http://indiewebcamp.com/facebook#Facebook_API me and aaronpk are POSSEing via the FB Graph API now
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KevinMarks go on then, edit it Jeena
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KevinMarks :D
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KevinMarks same reason tantek said - take notes as you go
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Jeena yeah, hm I just wonder how to write it, I don't see such a comment on the Twitter page in the wiki
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Jeena ah there is "IndieWebCamp community members who are doing this"
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jeena.net edited /Facebook (+131) "/* Facebook API */ added community members and changed to fb_graph for ruby" (view diff)
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jeena.net edited /User:Jeena.net (+408) "Added some info about me" (view diff)
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jeena.net uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:jeena-avatar-2014-02-21.jpg]]""
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jeena.net edited /User:Jeena.net (+50) "added image" (view diff)
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jeena.net edited /Facebook (+24) "/* Facebook API */ added another example" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu updated mf2py with BS to use back compatibility! Next: more parsing! https://github.com/kartikprabhu/mf2py
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KartikPrabhu also docstrings are the best!
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KartikPrabhu mf2 Q: Should p-name parsing get rid of leading/trailing white space and breaks? Or just use value as is?
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tantek KartikPrabhu see: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing#parsing_a_p-_property
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KartikPrabhu did follow those rules but then I get strings like p-name="\n Name \n" because the html was authored to look pretty
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tantek that sounds like your HTML parser is doing the wrong thing
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tantek html5lib should be handling that properly
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tantek dropping \n after start tag / before end tag etc.
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KartikPrabhu aah ok then I will check that... thanks
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tantek but microformats2 just says to use textContent in that typical case per the URL I gave above
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tantek if you want to further "cleanup" for your particular display use-case, you can do that
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tantek it's just not part of parsing
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tantek that's application specific handling
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KartikPrabhu yes. that makes sense
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tommorris KartikPrabhu: should just be able to run the Python equivalent of java.lang.String.trim (I can never remember Python method names) on the results.
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@VSChawathe Rise of the IndieWeb - Amber Case - FutureTalks http://www.linkedin.com/slink?code=bT5Ht_F (twitter.com/_/status/436798843552673792)
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Raymondo I looked around the site and scanned some logs
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Raymondo I still have no idea what this is about
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Jeena There is a strange thing happening with the notes RSS feeds. Many of you post links but the links aren't autolinked in the feed, even worse, all the schematas are removed like http:// and https:// and I don't really understand why.
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tantek example(s)?
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tantek checks his Atom feed. ;)
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Jeena http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4UcGb8/ is one example
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tantek Jeena - looks like my notes in my feed are fine
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tantek (as in autolinked etc.)
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Jeena yes your seem fine
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tantek except I still need to trim/summaries my note names/titles ;)
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tantek (as you pointed out)
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Jeena next one http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/02/15/3/cyborgs
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tantek Jeena, but those are HTML
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tantek you said something strange about feeds
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Jeena yeah the feeds to this websites
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Jeena http://caseorganic.com/notes.atom for example, I will need to check the source code, perhaps I am doing something wrong
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Jeena nevermind, it seems something on my side is removing the html somewhere, so they are in fact autolinked
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Jeena hm, it looks like the Go xml-parser does weird stuff, or they use it wrong
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Raymondo could somebody please link to a succinct explanation of what is happening here? the mediawiki site is a shambles
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Raymondo How to join the IndieWeb:
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Raymondo Join the IRC Channel and say hello! We're friendly. :)
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Raymondo wow :/
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pdurbin Raymondo: wow?
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Raymondo it makes sense in the context of the rest of what I said since joining
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Jeena Raymondo I've complained about it too when I found the wiki ;)
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Jeena Raymondo the best short resource I found was http://indiewebify.me/
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Raymondo I don't even mean to complain.. I'm intrigued but have already hit a brick wall at the start :/
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Raymondo thank you :)
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pdurbin the complaint is that https://indiewebcamp.com/#Welcome_to_the_IndieWeb is confusing?
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Raymondo confusing and/or opaque
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pdurbin Raymondo: how so?
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Jeena the thing is it is a wall of text
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Raymondo I don't get a clear sense of what activities are currently supporting its goals
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Jeena Raymondo a second link could be my own article, I explained what I did since joining the community https://jeena.net/indieweb
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Raymondo ok
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pdurbin "Check out what we're building" links to https://indiewebcamp.com/Projects
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Raymondo pdurbin: "Have a look at the IRC logs and recent changes to see what we've been discussing/working on lately." try to imagine what that would actually be like for a new person
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Raymondo pdurbin: yes. apache? seriously? how is that something I can 'get behind'?
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Jeena hehe, you sound exaclty like what I am thinking when I read the wiki ^^
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Raymondo as far as I can tell, the projects that aren't experimental have only vague relation to the .. movement?
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Jeena kind of but not quite
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pdurbin it's complicated :)
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Jeena microformats for example aren't experimental and are a core thing in the community
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Raymondo Jeena: reading your article now
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Jeena but yeah I agree with pdurbin, it is a complicated beast
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Jeena but I still kind of think that something like http://indiewebify.me/ should be the start page of http://indiewebcamp.com/
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gRegor` Hi, Raymondo. I agree the wiki is fairly technical and doesn't have a specific call to action until you've read more pages of it / interacted with the community.
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gRegor` I think there used to be some "first steps" on the home page, but I don't see it currently.
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Raymondo hey
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gRegor` The IndieMark page might be the closest thing to it: http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieMark
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gRegor` Unless someone can remind me what page had the steps
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gRegor` e.g. 1) get your own domain name, publish content there, set up indieauth on the domain
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tantek gregor - right there in the side bar - Getting Started
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gRegor` Oops. :)
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tantek hey Raymondo - what's confusing about indiewebcamp.com?
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gRegor` Thanks, tantek
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Raymondo tantek: all of the info seems strangely circular. like you already have to know the significance of the things being mentioned in order to understand the page you're on
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tantek Raymondo - which "info"? be specific, e.g. what statement(s) at the top of the home page are you referring to?
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gRegor` Have you read the why page? That's a good foundation. http://indiewebcamp.com/why
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Raymondo for example, I tried to drill down to understand 'web sign in'. several pages and off-site redirects later I'm still not exactly sure what it is
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tantek Raymondo - what's unclear about "Own your data. Create and publish content on your own site, and only optionally syndicate to third-party silos. " ?
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tantek Jeena, how would you improve https://indiewebcamp.com/#Welcome_to_the_IndieWeb ? It's only a couple of sentences and then a list of *three* things.
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Raymondo nothing's unclear about those two imperative statements
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tantek Raymondo it sounded like you were confused by the home page, so I'm trying to understand what about it confused so we can improve it.
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Raymondo and I've tried to explain in both general and specific terms
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gRegor` Raymondo: web sign in is a way for you to use the login system of popular services like Twitter to authenticate to a site. If your domain links to your twitter with a rel="me", then you can log in on the wiki by entering your domain name. The authentication process looks at your domain, sees that rel="me" link, then goes to twitter to verify you are logged in there. If you are not logged in...
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gRegor` ...there, then you are prompted to log in. Finally, you're returned to the site you're authenticating to.
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Raymondo gRegor`: ok, how does it relate to openid, persona, app.net?
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tantek Raymondo - those sound like FAQs
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tantek Raymondo did you read https://indiewebcamp.com/web-sign-in ?
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tantek the answer to "how does it relate to openid" is in the summary at the top
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Raymondo no, I don't think I ended up on that page
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Jeena wen you get to the home page for the first time then you are coming from other communities like Twitter, App.net, Tent, Identica. The first thing you notice: "Own your data" then you think, ok, cool, where do I download some peace of software, like a client or something to do that?, Then you see "Selfdogfood instead of email. Show before tell. ..." and you think how, what, wait, where is the software? At least that was kind of what I was
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Jeena thinking the first time.
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tantek raymondo - in general, if you have a question about a subject on the wiki, go to the page for that subject
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Raymondo tantek: I followed the links
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tantek Jeena - yeah, it's tough to break people of the monoculture software assumption "where is the software?"
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tantek no easy way around that
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Raymondo Jeena: yes, at first I thought this was a technical project like diaspora, tent etc.
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tantek Raymondo - perhaps read this then: https://indiewebcamp.com/monoculture
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gRegor` Raymondo: I don't know much about persona or app.net
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Raymondo tantek: so I'm still confused as to what activities are currently supporting your goals
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Raymondo besides spreading the word
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Raymondo gRegor`: I just asked because they're mentioned on one of the web sign in pages I read
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gRegor` It's basically an easier alternative to OpenID
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barnabywalters the projects page does do a bad job of prioritising things that attendees are actually *working* on
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barnabywalters i.e. things which are considered “indieweb” projects
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barnabywalters as opposed to generic free software projects like apache, nginx, wordpress, mediawiki
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Raymondo barnabywalters: the projects page was my first click and.. yeah
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gRegor` Cleanup time? :)
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barnabywalters but equally the projects page isn’t a catalogue of software to download and use
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Raymondo of course
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barnabywalters indeed, many of the projects like Taproot, falcon and p3k *can’t* be downloaded
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gRegor` How'd you come across indiewebcamp, Raymondo?
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barnabywalters Raymondo: do you have a personal domain?
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barnabywalters the best way to understand indieweb is through iterative improvements to your own domain
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barnabywalters e.g. setting up web sign in so you can use your domain for authentication
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Jeena Raymondo in my eyes the most important stuff is Webmentions and Microformats. With help of those two you can then build a blog and a notes application which can be your Twitter replacement in the long run.
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aaronpk barnabywalters++ for "the best way to understand indieweb is through iterative improvements to your own domain"
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Loqi barnabywalters has 26 karma
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Jeena with webmentions you can ping other websites and tell them that you mentioned them (just like with pingback)
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Raymondo gRegor`: https://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/201x/2014/02/19/Leaving-Google
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Raymondo one of the comments
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Jeena and because everybody marks up their HTML with Microformats we don't need a special JSON protocol or anything, we just parse the HTML to get structured data out.
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Raymondo barnabywalters: I have, yes
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tantek ah, from KevinMarks's comment
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tantek regardless, welcome Raymondo! :)
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Raymondo Jeena: so the idea is that something like an rss reader becomes one's twitter-client replacement?
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gRegor` Cool. Glad to have you here, Raymondo. Hopefully we can make things clearer :)
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Raymondo tantek: thanks :)
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tantek Raymondo - no, run away from anything RSS related ;)
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Jeena hehe
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tantek more like
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Jeena in the long run you don't need RSS because you can just parse the HTML to get out structured data
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tantek your site becomes your tweet posting, note reading replacement
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Raymondo ok, so what's the model for independent syndication?
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Raymondo subscription, rather
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tantek XML/RSS/Atom was a massive distraction - except at least Atom did resolve some naming issues - most of which we've re-used in h-entry microformat
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Jeena right now it is still RSS I would say. Later on instead of querying example.com/index.atom you query example.com/index.html and get the same data.
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tantek subscription = feed + notifications
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tantek feed = your home page
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aaronpk right now, people read each others notes by either 1) visiting each website, 2) finding the posts via a silo like twitter or facebook, or 3) an indieweb reader that parses microformats
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tantek notifications = webmention for peer to peer, PuSH for broadcast
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aaronpk in the future I suspect we will do something similar to pubsubhubbub with realtime subscriptions, but there aren't enough indieweb readers yet for anybody to have worked on that part
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Jeena aaronpk or 4) a rss reader where .title { display: none;} that is what I do ;)
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tantek aaronpk - is anyone's site consuming PuSH yet? or are current IndieReaders all polling?
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aaronpk I don't know the complete list of readers, but mine is definitely polling right now
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Jeena mine too
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aaronpk i should go add mine to the wiki since i'm actually using it now
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tantek awesome!
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gRegor` Raymondo: If you have your own domain name, I would try setting up web sign in using it and logging in to the wiki first.
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tantek aaronpk - perhaps add to https://indiewebcamp.com/reader#Indieweb_examples and re-organize it by site/user rather than project?
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tantek.com created /start (+29) "shortcut" (view diff)
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tantek Raymondo - start here: https://indiewebcamp.com/start
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Raymondo I'm not sure if it's been treated in detail elsewhere or whether you consider it important but as a newcomer I think this part should be talked about a lot more. a lot of people spent time with rss readers and watched that whole sphere get supplanted by twitter et al. explaining why both of those situations are should/will be replaced by indieweb would be
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Raymondo useful
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tantek gregor - use that link to get people started
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tantek raymondo - new people typically don't care or have never heard of or have never used RSS readers
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Raymondo damn I'm old
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tantek only a fraction of geeks or old people (or both) have bothered with RSS readers
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gRegor` Really, tantek? I know a ton of people that used and miss Google Reader.
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tantek especially with the death of Google Reader, whose very existence sucked the oxygen out of the reader innovation market
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gRegor` Non-developers, too. Geeks, but not overly technical people.
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tantek newcomer != people spent time with rss readers
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aaronpk tantek: do you mean to reorganize like http://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context#IndieWeb_Examples ?
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Raymondo I mean newcomer to your project
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aaronpk i'm trying to find an example to base off of
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tantek Raymondo - most newcomers don't care nor have heard of RSS
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tantek so that's not a good thing to focus on
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Raymondo ok
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tantek we could have a section for "hey old geeks who used to use rss readers"
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gRegor` Hey now. :)
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tantek gregor - don't worry, I'm likely older ;)
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tantek (takes one to know one etc. :) )
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tantek aaronpk, more like http://indiewebcamp.com/rsvp#IndieWeb_Implementations
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aaronpk ah thanks yeah that's what I was looking for
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Raymondo well it's an obvious comparison for anyone asking 'why are you doing this'. wheel reinvention being so rampant and all. but I'm sure you know what you're doing
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aaronpk heh would be interesting to see an age breakdown of everyone here
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aaronpk if only we all published an h-card on our sites that contained out birthyear
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gRegor` Personally I think the best selling point of the indie web is how much stuff people are putting into social networks these days, and how frequently those social networks are disappearing.
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tantek gregor - bingo
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gRegor` So encouraging people to just post on their own domain name is a great start.
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tantek hence why /why focuses on that
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gRegor` Yeah
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Raymondo but you don't need to beat the social networks, you need to beat the other social network challengers
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gRegor` It's not about beating anyone, really
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Raymondo sure, wrong terminology. I realise there is work going on to harmonise
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gRegor` It's about maintaining our content and not losing it. And not being at the whim of someone else.
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Raymondo I'm referring to the projects on the monoculture page
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gRegor` Ah, I'll have to review it
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Raymondo ok, so enough oxygen used up by the noob. I will lurk a bit and throw out some hopefully not-too-dumb questions in time :)
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aaronpk Raymondo: it's always helpful to have fresh eyes on this stuff!
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gRegor` Not at all, Raymondo. Ask away. And any way the wiki can be made more clear is great.
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aaronpk tantek: I'm restructuring to the people-centric approach for the readers page, but what about the case where both amber and I are usingthe same project?
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aaronpk was thinking making a header for me, then subheader of "other indieweb people using this..."
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tantek aaronpk - list each domain/person separately
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tantek it puts emphasis on the people-centric rather than project-centric philosophy/mindset
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tantek Raymondo - all your questions are great - seriously - keep asking away.
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tantek might be a bit of lag before they all make it into the FAQs but we'll get there ;)
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aaronparecki.com edited /reader (+638) "/* Indieweb examples */ restructure to be people-centric rather than project-centric" (view diff)
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aaronpk much better that way
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Jeena Raymondo my latest improvement (deployed it yesterday) is when I poste a Note on my own website, it is automatically posted to Twitter and Facebook. I still have many friends, especially on Facebook who won't really move to their own Websites the next couple of years. But that way even if Facebook decides that I shouldn't be allowed to have an account under my nickname, I still have all the data on my own website.
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tommorris tantek: any chance you could weigh in on https://github.com/tommorris/mf2py/issues/1 ?
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Jeena tommorris I'm looking at the Parser init method, is it possible to pass a string of HTML code into it?
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tommorris should be. if not, it’s trivially possible to modify it to do so. ;)
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Jeena if the arg is of type str data = requests.get(args[0]) is called
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tommorris ah, yeah. need to fix for that.
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tantek tommorris - you could also add it to the /microformats group or /indieweb group
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tommorris tantek: nah, need one or two other people with PyPI access. git decentralizes version control, but there’s no way to decentralise pip
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tantek pip?
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tommorris sorry, PyPI (Python Package Index).
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tommorris pip is the tool that installs python packages
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tommorris Jeena: just going to hack something in to make that experience not suck
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tantek I'd propose Kevinmarks as he's more Python familiar than I am
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tommorris KevinMarks_: mind handling PyPI/pip on mf2py in case I get hit by a bus? ;)
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KevinMarks__ feel free to add me yes
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tommorris what’s yer pypi username?
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KevinMarks__ also KartikPrabhu as he's been patching it
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tommorris also, on the Python front, I seem to have been converted. I’m doing 80% Python at work these days.
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tommorris which is pretty good as I was hired as a Java dev and have yet to write a line of Java.
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tommorris all been Python and Ruby. ;)
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Jeena hehe lucky bastard
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KevinMarks__ I'm Kevin.Marks
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KevinMarks__ and apparently their openID login doesn't work with indieauth
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aaronparecki.com edited /principles-de (+183) "porting content from duolingo" (view diff)
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tommorris KevinMarks__: granted. I’ll ask Kartik as well.
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tommorris yeah, OpenID is based on community trust and stuff
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tommorris which I don’t like.
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KevinMarks__ how do you mean?
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tommorris they only approve a few openid providers. pretty much just google, myopenid (which is dead) and launchpad
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tantek well that kind of defeats the whole decentralized thing
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tommorris well, some sites did do that back in the heyday of openid. because they were worried about security so they only let people from a few top name-brand sites authenticate.
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tantek name-brand == oligopoly
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barnabywalters and “not enough items to unpack” is their idea of a helpful error message
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tommorris livejournal was usually pretty high on that list iirc
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tommorris barnabywalters: indeed. pypi is notoriously hackerish
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KevinMarks__ well, when Brad came round evangelising OpenID, LJ is what he used to help you debug it
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tommorris barnabywalters: you can report pypi issues here - https://bitbucket.org/pypa/pypi/issues ;)
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barnabywalters tommorris: doing
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aaronpk oh yeah I still don't know wtf is wrong with their openid thing
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aaronpk you can click on "openid" and just type in your domain, you don't need to use their whitelist of providers
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aaronpk but then it says "Cannot establish OpenID session: need more than 1 value to unpack
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aaronpk "
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KevinMarks__ code is here: https://bitbucket.org/pypa/pypi/src/18f27218146244eb62c41a8cdeff4e1084d67905/webui.py?at=default#cl-3262
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KevinMarks__ per this bug: https://bitbucket.org/pypa/pypi/issue/66/error-when-trying-to-use-openid
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aaronpk and of course the top hit in google for that error message is the issue on the indieauth source
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KevinMarks__ recursively, bitbucket's openID support is nascar'd, then when you find the typein url bit, it auths you then says "We are not currently accepting new OpenID signups"
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barnabywalters created https://bitbucket.org/pypa/pypi/issue/121/logging-in-using-delegated-openid-fails
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barnabywalters feel free to comment or upvote or whatever
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aaronpk barnabywalters: thanks. now at least that page will show up in the search for that error
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barnabywalters I had a look at the other OpenID complaints and none of them were exactly the same
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barnabywalters actually, can everyone comment on that issue with their domain?
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barnabywalters that would quickly demonstrate that it’s not just some crazy outlier, and people do actually care about logging in using their own domain
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barnabywalters cc aaronpk tommorris KartikPrabhu KevinMarks
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KevinMarks__ alos #66 is already major
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barnabywalters yeah, I suppose “not working at all” counts as major. changing
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tommorris I ended up just setting up a username/password to log in with.
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barnabywalters tommorris: yeah me too
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tommorris I’m generally impressed with releasing stuff on PyPI though
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tommorris process is bump the version number, check it all in, then `git tag -s {version number}
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tommorris python setup.py sdist upload —sign`
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tantek that looks like fun
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barnabywalters tommorris: that’s way more complex than I’m used to with packagist ;)
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Jeena is indieauth.com a delegate for oauth too?
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barnabywalters Jeena: it is indeed!
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Jeena I am on sweet, I am on clavid.com and it was just down (ok for the first time but still!)
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tommorris barnabywalters: it’s a lot simpler than I’m used to with Maven and Java crap.
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barnabywalters actually, why is there not a guide to setting up indieauth.com as an openID delegate on indieauth.com?
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barnabywalters tommorris: never used Java, so I have no idea what I’m missing/how fortunate I am to have good tools
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barnabywalters s/good tools/tools built with usability front-of-mind
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Loqi barnabywalters meant to say: tommorris: never used Java, so I have no idea what I’m missing/how fortunate I am to have tools built with usability front-of-mind
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tommorris barnabywalters: think of this: you download all the dependencies. then you hit compile and it says it needs to download more dependencies to actually compile your code.
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tommorris oh, yeah, PHP, no compiling. ;)
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Jeena yeah but uhm PHP ...
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barnabywalters tommorris: that sounds fun :)
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tantek Jeena, you should checkout CASSIS then ;)
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tommorris Jeena: okay, come up with a way of doing the API that’s a bit simpler
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tommorris Parser(url=“http://tantek.com/“) - loads tantek.com, parses
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barnabywalters Jeena: a large part of the PHP community has got over the crappy historical approaches which PHP suffered from
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Jeena simple != good ;)
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tommorris Parser(doc={str}, url=“http://tantek.com/“) - parses str, with url as base.
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tommorris Parser(doc={str}) - parses str, infers base from document
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Jeena ah hehe I thought you've been talking about PHP ^^
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tommorris otherwise it uses the else logic
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Jeena yeah that sounds quite good
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barnabywalters actually HTML should almost never be parsed without a base url, so you could safely use positional arguments
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tommorris I don’t like positional arguments.
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barnabywalters parse(string) is treated as a URL to fetch
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barnabywalters parse(string, string) is treated as HTML, URL
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tommorris barnabywalters: that’s pretty much what it does.
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tommorris if it’s a file, it parses it.
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tommorris if it’s str, it treats it as a URL and loads it
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tommorris I’m tempted to split it out and have factory methods.
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tommorris but it’s 0.1 alpha so I’mma break shit and not feel the slightest bit guilty.
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aaronpk Jeena: yes indieauth.com is a delegate for oauth actually
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tommorris Yo, users, I’mma really happy for you, and I’m gonna let you hack, but I’ve got a better idea.
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tommorris (Sorry, on a Kanye tip today.)
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Jeena hehe
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aaronpk actully the term is "authorization server" rather than delegate
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tommorris Jeena: mf2py 0.1.2 released to pypi.
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tommorris and it’s lost the blasted documentation
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tommorris gets stabby at pypi
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Jeena nice, even though I have no use for it yet (because I wrote my own stuff in Ruby) some time in the future I will surely need it :)
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tommorris Jeena: am also a Rubyist. the two are close enough that it shouldn’t be too hard to port one to t'other
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tommorris I know danbri used to take Python code and just manually cross-compile it into Ruby. ;)
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Jeena hehe
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Jeena for ruby there is a quite good one already actually the one by G5
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tommorris yeah, I’ve submitted a patch or two to G5
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KevinMarks__ there's a reason Python gets called executable pseudocode
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Jeena even though the documentation it not the best one
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tommorris tantek: I’ll move the mf2py repo over to github/microformats later
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Jeena Oh there is Pintrest for Firefox OS, neat, even if I don't use it, it is good that something happens in that app store.
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aaronpk I would log in and upvote that issue on pypi but I can't log in with openid
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+362) "/* mobile home template header icons folders */ steps to prototype separately, for ease of implementation and re-use" (view diff)
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Loqi benwerd: aaronpk left you a message 1 week ago: I think your list of posts on your home page is missing the "u-url" property! http://werd.io/
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Loqi benwerd: caseorganic left you a message on 2/17 at 1:37pm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58-atNakMWw
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Loqi benwerd: aaronpk left you a message on 2/20 at 1:21pm: do you not include a link back to your werd.io post on your Facebook POSSE copies?
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tantek lol
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benwerd loqi, anything else? ;)
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aaronpk welcome back benwerd
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aaronpk :)
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aaronpk tantek: this is interesting. according to http://indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation#How_to_display , if there is a named article that is in-reply-to something, the comment will never show the article name
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aaronpk is that intentional / correct?
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gregorlove.com edited /projects (+661) "/* OStatus for WordPress */ Adding Postcard" (view diff)
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benwerd I'm choosing to interpret the goats on a ribbon as an existential metaphor for life.
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benwerd aaronpk: I stopped including Fb links after I got strong signals from my friends there that the links on status updates were annoying. Photos should have them, but might not now I think about it (fwiw Flickr photos do have a link back). Articles clearly do.
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aaronpk huh, interesting
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aaronpk you unfortunately don't get the bridgy feedback that way
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benwerd I know
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aaronpk how were you including the link?
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benwerd What I really wish is that the citation gives to the source app was configurable on a per-post basis
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benwerd I was including it at the end, just as text
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benwerd * the citation Facebook gives to the source app
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aaronpk ah yeah that would be a great spot for it
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aaronpk here's my first POSSE note to facebook. so far no negative reaction http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7415/12681284203_e29cd8053c_c.jpg
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benwerd OK, that's better than mine: Facebook is automatically expanding my links. Maybe I need to go back and reread the API to prevent it from doing that.
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aaronpk oh interesting. yeah I can see how that would be annoying
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benwerd I'd have no qualms about including a reference if it didn't expand it. Will check.
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aaronpk I did that by making a POST to /me/feed with just a "message" property
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benwerd Right. I think that's what I'm doing too
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benwerd but I'll reread my code ;)
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benwerd Indeed
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benwerd I am a doofus of gargantuan proportions
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aaronpk literally this https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/2cdf70d3b342ce0ca9a1
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benwerd I was checking for links after I added my reference. Guess what it found if there wasn't another link?
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benwerd Thanks for the prod.
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benwerd I'll start adding links later today ;)
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aaronpk cool!
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aaronpk snarfed: any chance of adding app.net to bridgy?
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snarfed hmm!
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aaronpk i'm re-considering POSSEing to app.net via their API
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snarfed interesting idea
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snarfed i'd happily accept a pull request :P
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aaronpk you probably don't want me anywhere near your python
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snarfed i'm focusing on the posse service right now
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snarfed eh i'm not religious
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aaronpk well it would be a good addition to the posse service too ;)
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snarfed agreed!
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snarfed definitely file an issue at least
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snarfed they use ActivityStreams, right?
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snarfed if so that makes it pretty easy
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aaronpk they actually have full microformats markup on the posts
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aaronpk the only thing missing is them actually sending webmentions
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snarfed oh interesting
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snarfed any chance they send webhooks?
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aaronpk oh looks like in-reply-to is missing, and also it would be to the app.net URL not the original
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snarfed yeah. still, iirc the API data model is AS?
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KartikPrabhu is setting up openid delegation via indieauth
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snarfed nice KartikPrabhu!
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KartikPrabhu what is a good site to test that it works?
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snarfed toy: http://openid-consumer.appspot.com/
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snarfed real: stackoverflow?
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aaronpk I /b 21
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aaronpk oops
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KartikPrabhu cool! thanks snarfed
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aaronpk snarfed: I left you some notes https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/70
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snarfed awesome, thanks!
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aaronpk darn, someone already took the @p3k name on github
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snarfed aww
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aaronpk guess i'm putting these under my own acct
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snarfed personal repos aren't that bad
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aaronpk I wanted a collection of all the p3k librarys on the p3k org
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snarfed good point
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snarfed i went through a brief phase where i tried to create dedicated accounts, orgs, etc for my nontrivial projects, but gave up pretty quickly. cost benefit was way off.
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aaronpk although I could rename this one and put it under indieweb
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snarfed but a matching collection is a good use case
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aaronpk yeah i'll put this one under indieweb since it's comment parsing and follows the comments-presentation algorithm
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aaronpk hm I forget how long it takes before new packagist projects are available
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aaronpk there is goes
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KartikPrabhu openid via indieauth works! w00t!
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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KartikPrabhu thanks snarfed for test sites
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snarfed np, congrats!
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KartikPrabhu curiousity question: does any one publish book reviews on their indiewebsite maybe using open library covers API https://openlibrary.org/dev/docs/api/covers ?
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pdurbin KartikPrabhu: no, but that's a neat idea... hosting your own reviews as opposed to putting them on amazon
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KartikPrabhu or goodreads. I've been meaning to move from there maybe add POSSE later
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KartikPrabhu also a good excuse to play with h-review
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pdurbin yeah. goodreads. I've never left reviews on either. I'd rather put them on my domain
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KartikPrabhu goodreads is now owned by amazon anyway. so yeah indie book reviews would be sweet. Maybe I'll do those before notes/status since no one else seems to have done it
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aaronpk I'd still suggest notes first since they're simpler and you'll likely learn a lot about how you want to do things internally
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: yeah on second thought you might be right
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KartikPrabhu just in case anyone else tries to send mentions through post_save in Django. It won't work and here is why: http://stackoverflow.com/a/21817555/2146591
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KartikPrabhu basically your save is not 'committed' by the save thread until post_save is done. So all webmention targets will not see your source at the URL
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pdurbin didn't realize amazon owns goodreads
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KartikPrabhu they acquired it last year some time
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KartikPrabhu http://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/413-exciting-news-about-goodreads-we-re-joining-the-amazon-family
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KevinMarks__ so, anyone going to jon me at http://hackathon.launch.co/ this evening?
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: It's been in the back of my mind to syndicate reviews from my site to goodreads. I don't write many reviews as-is, though, so it's lower priority
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gRegor` I do use goodreads a lot for tracking reading progress, so I'd be interested in posting that data on my site and syndicating, if possible.
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KartikPrabhu cool! I have stopped writing to goodreads but I am sure I'll pick up again if it is on my own site
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gRegor` I'm quite interested in such personal stats. Quantified self and all that.
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KartikPrabhu nods
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KartikPrabhu !tell tommorris: RE: handling PyPI - I have never handled anything on PyPi and also don't have an account there yet. I'll look into it and let you know.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu !tell barnabywalters: commented on PyPi OpenId/IndieAuth issue
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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tommorris KartikPrabhu: don’t worry. KevinMarks__ has stepped up.
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Loqi tommorris: KartikPrabhu left you a message 3 minutes ago: RE: handling PyPI - I have never handled anything on PyPi and also don't have an account there yet. I'll look into it and let you know.
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KartikPrabhu neat! Also, do you get the leading spaces issue in mf2py using html5lib?
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tommorris KartikPrabhu: I just wanted someone who could push new versions if I were, oh, hit by a bus, swept off by a mysterious dark gentleman on a romantic tour of Europe without internet access, mistaken for a terrorist by MI5… that sort of thing
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tommorris KartikPrabhu: haven’t looked at that, but it’s easily fixable
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KartikPrabhu you do have an exmaple in value_class_person.html
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tommorris just need to .strip() the text
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KartikPrabhu I am wondering if that should be fixed by an mf2 parser or not. tantek seems to think that the html5 parser should do that and not a mf2 parser
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tommorris well, html5lib is just invoking the XML DOM parser
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tommorris and XML allows you to have either
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tommorris I think XSD specified a difference in datatype semantics for strings with whitespace significance or not
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tommorris ah, yes, XSD had a “constraining facet” for ‘whiteSpace’ with the ability to set it to “collapse”. i.e. remove
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tommorris just stripping the property seems reasonable to me.
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tommorris I’ll put it in. If we find a use case for having non-stripped properties, document it and then we’ll write a test to make sure that’s kept
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KartikPrabhu one case would with pre or code elements but I haven't found those arising in mf2 parsing yet
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aaronpk hello php folks! I've finished the comments-presentation library! https://github.com/indieweb/php-comments
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tommorris KartikPrabhu: yeah, pre and code are interesting.
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tommorris also, minidom is irritating me. switching to beautifulsoup seems a reasonable thing to do. ;)
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KartikPrabhu w00t!
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Loqi giggles
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KartikPrabhu feel free to check out: https://github.com/kartikprabhu/mf2py
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KartikPrabhu haven't incorporated the new doc parsing changes yet
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tommorris KartikPrabhu: I’m just about to push up a fix for string stripping
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tommorris https://github.com/tommorris/mf2py/commit/f31e3d9451cd6f6224d11c5deb7750dd9e3669b5
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KartikPrabhu cool. I'll update the BS version with the new doc kwarg parsing + strign stripping and send you a pull request in case you want to switch to BS
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tommorris that’d be awesome
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KartikPrabhu the timing depends on how inebriated I am this evening :P
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tommorris I’ve got family visiting tomorrow and then going out for birthday drinks so I won’t be able to do anything tomorrow, I’m afraid
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tommorris I’ll push string stripping stuff up to PyPI too
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KartikPrabhu alright! this mf2py thing is shaping up quite nicely
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KartikPrabhu leaves for happy hour. ciao
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tommorris pours himself a gin. ;)
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aaronpk pours himself a mimosa
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aaronpk cheers tommorris
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tommorris thanks aaronpk. mf2py seems to be progressing nicely.
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aaronpk that's great news!
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KevinMarks__ nice
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KevinMarks__ should probably check out new versions of mf2py
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gRegor` Helllooo, weekend.
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gRegor` That was a long last few hours of Friday
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snarfed1 heh
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aaronpk wait what
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aaronpk can someone go to indieauth.com and hit re-scan and see if it finds your twitter acct?
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aaronpk it seems to find mine just fine now
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ryana gives aaronpk a thumbs up.
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aaronpk so weird. I didn't actually change anything.