#indiewebcamp 2014-03-31

2014-03-31 UTC
tantek joined the channel
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bnvk aaronpk: does webmention.io result attribute in the data that sees a difference in webmentions for a given user from multiple websites?
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KartikPrabhu bear: is ronkyuu also supposed to handle in coming webmentions? or is that the plan with no code yet?
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aaronpk bnvk: i don't understand the question
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bnvk sorry, hehe
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bear it can handle the webmention indirectly - my thought was that it would be the library that any webmention work is done for another small code that is a http listener - does that make sense
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bnvk so if I put the same http://webmention.io/brennannovak.com/webmention on multiple sites (different domains) will I be able to query and split up my mentions as per each domain at a later time?
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aaronpk ah yeah
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aaronpk that is correct. the identifier in the URL is for your account at webmention.io
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KartikPrabhu bear: so I am confused as to where the in-coming handling is happening in the code
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aaronpk i could even make it "bnvk" if you want
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bnvk ok, well specifically what i'm asking bout is I plan to publish notes sometimes from brennannovak.com
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bnvk other times from bnvk.me
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bear processing incoming webmentions is two parts: first you need something that is running under an http server to receive the POST and then you need all the code to decode that payload and process the webmention
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snarfed hey bnvk, saw you signed up for bridgy. welcome!
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bnvk but no biggy if it's not really setup that way
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aaronpk bnvk: no it'll work fine, you can use that URL for any site
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bear the second part is what I thought ronkyuu would do
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KartikPrabhu bear: oh I see. So ronkyuu is doing the later with findMentions... :)
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bnvk oki cool cakes
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bear right
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bnvk snarfed: yah, i'm finally upgrading all my stuffs to play with your neato gadgets :)
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KartikPrabhu you think we should boost it using mf2py?
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bear oh totally
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bear the more that uses mf2py the better it gets
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KartikPrabhu alright! since I am changing my webmention parsing i'll see if I can play with that
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bear and a more unified/consistent approach for mf2 is in the wild
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bear hugs KartikPrabhu
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KartikPrabhu oh! I got a bearhug!
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snarfed lol
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snarfed bnvk: not sure why it's taking so long to poll your twitter. looking now.
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bnvk hrm
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bnvk should it be auto doing that?
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kbsriram.com edited /User:Kbsriram.com (+184) "test rel=me links from here" (view diff)
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bnvk or do I need to click or input a url?
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bnvk snarfed: ---^
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snarfed no, it polls automatically
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snarfed and usually pretty much immediately after you sign up
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snarfed looks like it's just busy. should get to it Real Soon Now
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bnvk will it be sending those to webmention.io ?
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aaronpk none of your tweets have a link at the end, so no
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aaronpk that's what the shortlink at the end of all our tweets do
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bnvk wait, a lot of my tweets have the short url, i've been POSSE ing for ages
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bnvk just not my replies to people on twitter
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aaronpk oh! ok
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aaronpk i just scanned the first page of yours and didn't see them
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bnvk aaronpk: for some reason I think my webmention.io account doesn’t have public access enabled
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aaronpk that is likely, one sec
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aaronpk now it does!
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bnvk cool
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barnabywalters aaronpk: you are too quick, now I can’t test my error message on encountering a private account ;)
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barnabywalters on the plus side: http://waterpigs.co.uk/services/webmention-io-comments/?url=https://brennannovak.com/notes/410
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bnvk aaronpk: ah shoot, webmention.io isn't setup for https is it?
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aaronpk i think it is
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aaronpk oh no it's not... i can do that
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bnvk yah, https first throws a warning, then redirects to Gitbox
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bnvk GitLab
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aaronpk ah yeah. actually I should move that over to the new indieweb server along with indieauth, so i'll set it up with ssl there
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bnvk secure the web!!!
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aaronpk the server it's on right now is stupid
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snarfed bnvk: looks like bridgy had webmention discovery for bnvk.me cached as no endpoint found. i deleted that, so it should see your endpoint in the future
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bnvk snarfed: ah interesting, so it will re-poll whenever the job runs again?
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barnabywalters goodnight all
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Loqi gute nacht!
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snarfed yeah, it re-polls every 15m, but it won't retry any of the existing responses that it marked as complete because it thought bnvk.me didn't have a WM endpoint. it'll send future responses though
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bnvk oh shucks, ok
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snarfed and i may clear one or two of the recent ones manually for you
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bnvk that'd be swell :)
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aaronpk is coffeed up like crazy here
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bnvk hehe, PDX coffee is a lot stronger than Iceland kaffi
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aaronpk is at fresh pot on hawthorne! always seem to get a lot of stuff done while i'm here!
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bnvk me too, perhaps the large quantity of books emits a certain frequency conducive to thinking deeply
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aaronpk ok! indieauth.com is now on the new server!
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aaronpk it should be faster, and should also not have the twitter ssl problem anymore!
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kbs aaronpk: am I correct in thinking that when checking rel=me links from the proivder, you're directly parsing [and then following through any redirects] rel=me links from them? (as opposed to using an api call offered by the provider)
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aaronpk yes, it fetches the HTML page, not using the provider's API
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aaronpk (that's why facebook doesn't work, cause they don't return any sensible HTML on public profile pages)
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acegiak aaronpk: my webmention comments on your posts are only displaying as hyperlinks to the mentioned posts. is this normal behaviour for your system?
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aaronpk acegiak: i was wondering that
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aaronpk i haven't looked into it yet
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aaronpk it depends on how you've got it marked up, what my site finds
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kbs aaronpk: great, thanks - wanted to follow in footsteps rather than encountering solved issues
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acegiak aaronpk: I'm using pretty much all the markup possible :P
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aaronpk acegiak: lol
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aaronpk wow that's quite the URL http://acegiak.net/2014/03/28/httpaaronparecki-com-so-basically-what-im-hearing-is-in-20-years-ill-be-able-to-video-record-my-dreams-httpmobile-geek-comlatest252771-mind-reading-breakthrough-can-recreate-the-faces-yo/
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aaronpk acegiak: looks like it's because the parsed version shows my text as the "name" property
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snarfed bnvk: cleared your results, feel free to click the "poll now" button to try again
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acegiak aaronpk: yeah seems that way
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snarfed or just wait 15m :P
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aaronpk acegiak: I see your note in the "summary" field, but do you know why your note isn't in the name?
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aaronpk i'm following this algorithm to the letter to determine what to display as the comment, in case you want to debug http://indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation#How_to_display
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bnvk snarfed: cool, hrm... do my short URL's need to be like (bnvk.me/96h ) or is bnvk.me/96h ok?
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snarfed no parens needed
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snarfed unless it's a PSC
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snarfed but as long as twitter thinks it's a url, bridgy will too
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bnvk interesting, it's still saying no responses
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acegiak aaronpk: the p-name is the title of the post? the post has both e-content and p-summary on the actual note content?
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bnvk snarfed: maybe I don't have any content that has the right kind of activity on it? I'm even trying to manually enter post URL and not seeing anything https://brennannovak.com/notes/410
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snarfed bnvk: re responses, yeah, sorry, more caches to clear. guess i didn't design it to selectively clear the cache. i'll just flush
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aaronpk acegiak: looking at your post in my browser, I don't really see what would be the name of the note
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bnvk friggin caching... isn't there some quote bout caching be the devil
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aaronpk bnvk: it's one of the two hard problems in computer science
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aaronpk along with naming things and off-by-one errors
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bnvk right, that's what I was thinking
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snarfed bnvk: usually the log links help debugging like that, but they're not working right now. not sure why. i'll take a todo
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aaronpk acegiak: oh are you not actually setting a p-name property manually?
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bnvk okie
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snarfed and it should have also handled the bnvk.me redirect to brennannovak.com and found that domain ok, instead of complaining. i'll take a todo for that too
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snarfed in the meantime, try running your markup through http://kartikprabhu.com/connection/mfparser . that's the same parser bridgy uses
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aaronpk acegiak: oh no there it is, it's in the footer. that seems weird.
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acegiak aaronpk: it's because I'm trying to minimize the size/impact of asides/notes in my blog display
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snarfed bnvk: looks like the preview of https://brennannovak.com/notes/410 worked ok?
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aaronpk but my question is why are you setting the p-name at all? especially to the text of my post?
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acegiak whereas for actual big content it has a nice bold title etc
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bnvk snarfed: yay, debugging, better resiliency
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aaronpk the convention is if it's just a short note, not a full blog post or article, then there isn't a separate p-name
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bnvk snarfed: yah, the preview worked just fine
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bnvk I wish IRC was smart enough / nice UI that it would auto break off threads between two people (e.g. me and snarfed) but keep it in the same public room view
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acegiak aaronpk: the way I create posts that are replies/reblogs/likes I have a form that prefills the title of the post with the format [POSTERNAME]:[POST TITLE] which I can then change if I want to
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aaronpk bnvk: that's what brains are for :)
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acegiak bnvk: surely you can script that?
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acegiak aaronpk: is that convention documented?
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aaronpk acegiak: interesting, is that a convention you picked up from somewhere?
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bnvk acegiak: brains, yes, but requires much scan time / brain cpu cycles to read msgs not for me ;)
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acegiak aaronpk: I think probably tumblr? I'll see if that's how they do it
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aaronpk bnvk: lol that was me that said that. point taken. :)
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acegiak aaronpk: the title thing in mine is the corssover between the way tumblr handles these things and what I already had built for when whisperfollow was soley rss based
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bnvk DOH!
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bnvk aaronpk & acegiak are both 7 chars, start with 'a' and end with 'k' and it is 1 AM here in Iceland :P
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aaronpk lol
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aaronpk ok webmention.io is on its way to the new server, as soon as the DNS propagates!
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bnvk saweet
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bnvk aaronpk: and my first webmention has been sent to https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/10/12/2/indieweb from my laptop :)
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bnvk albeit, a bit borked
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aaronpk yay cool!
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aaronpk hmm why didn't that pull the text of your comment?
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acegiak aaronpk: so I do't understand why yours is actually looking for the p-name if my posts have an e-content and p-summary?
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aaronpk it should be following this http://indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation#How_to_display
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kylewm snarfed: playing around with bridgy publish, I'm getting a 500 Internal Server Error, any idea what's happening?
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aaronpk your content doesnt look "too long"
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aaronpk i might have to run it through my comment parser manually to see what's going on
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bnvk aaronpk: not sure, it's pulling up fine on http://indiewebify.me/validate-h-entry/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdjango.bnvk.me%2Fnotes%2F17
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aaronpk looks like I may have two new test cases to add to php-comments :)
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bnvk hehe
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aaronpk ok webmention.io and twtr.io are moved over to the new server! yay for fixing things
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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aaronpk bnvk: ok the comment parser deals with yours just fine
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aaronpk so it's something wrong with p3k I guess
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aaronpk oh! it doesn't think it's a reply, just a mention
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acegiak :S
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acegiak is that my markup?
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aaronpk i'm looking at bnvk right now
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aaronpk bnvk: and I think it's cause i messed up something when you reply to the https version of my posts :)
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snarfed kylewm: heh. the fb api itself is 500ing :/
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snarfed i'll fix the log links soon so you all don't have to depend on me
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snarfed bnvk: grr, bridgy still isn't seeing your webmention endpoint. not sure why. i'll investigate.
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bnvk aaronpk: so, you think it's something on my end?
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aaronpk no, i'm fixing it
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aaronpk it's cause you linked to the https version of my post, so p3k didn't count it as a reply
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bnvk oh hehe, seem like https causes a lot o probs :P
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aaronpk indeed
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aaronpk ok fixed that, now i'm gonna figure out what's going on with acegiak's posts
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KartikPrabhu bnvk: is you're webmention endpoint on webmention.io?
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bnvk aaronpk: should I try another comment?
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bnvk KartikPrabhu: yes
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KartikPrabhu ok good. ronkyuu finds it fine enough :) just testing
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aaronpk bnvk: i haven't launched it yet
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aaronpk i should be able to just send teh webmention again and it'll update
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bnvk cool
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Loqi yea!
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aaronpk ok acegiak the problem with yours is that it doesn't actually have the "in-reply-to" class
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aaronpk and the first step of http://indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation#How_to_display says "if its hyperlink to the original post lacks in-reply-to markup, then add it to the "Related Articles" or "Mentions" section"
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aaronpk which means I don't actually check for note content to display
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acegiak just a sec I'll look
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aaronpk so this may mean comments-presentation is underspecified, or we need another guideline for how to display "mentions" that are not explicitly in-reply-to
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aaronpk but separately, your post does appear to be a reply, so should probably have the in-reply-to class
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acegiak <div class="u-like-of u-like p-like-of h-like-of p-in-reply-to h-cite">
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acegiak contains a u-url
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aaronpk lolololol wow classses
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acegiak multiverb post
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aaronpk is that on there right now?
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acegiak yearp
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aaronpk huh... it's not showing up in the parsed output!
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acegiak hmm
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acegiak I'm looking at the markup now to check for errors
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aaronpk what is h-like-of?
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aaronpk oh I see why... can something be two properties?
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aaronpk you have an h-cite which is the object, and the p-like-of class makes the cite show up as a property of the h-entry
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acegiak I've got h-like-of because I wasn't sure if it made sens to use u-like-of for a non-anchor
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KartikPrabhu "p-like-of" is better as it is a property of h-entry.
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aaronpk https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7109/13526765914_0ed49d602c_b.jpg
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aaronpk that p-like-of is working fine, but i think that means the p-in-reply-to isn't doing anything
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acegiak KartikPrabhu: true
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tantek here is no h-like-of
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tantek s/here/there
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Loqi tantek meant to say: there is no h-like-of
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KartikPrabhu irrc people are also using "p-in-reply-to"
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acegiak I'll chanch it to p- rather than h-
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aaronpk acegiak: you already have p-like-of which is fine
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tantek acegiak - h-* is only for top level objects
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acegiak yeah fixing that now
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aaronpk my question for tantek (hi tantek) is what happens if there are two p-* classes on an object like h-cite?
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tantek objects are things which have properties themselves
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tantek both properties get the object
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tantek as their value
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bnvk aaronpk: also, upon looking at my logs my calls to $client = new IndieWeb\MentionClient('http://django.bnvk.me/notes/17')
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bnvk coughed up an "Array to string conversion" error on line 138 of MentionClient.php
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tantek just as if you just had two p-* properties on a string
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aaronpk bnvk: oh ew
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bnvk $link_header = implode($headers['Link'], ", ");
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bnvk which is odd cause there's a conditional before that which asks if(is_array($headers['Link']))
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: mf2py does what tantek said. so does php-mf2 afaik
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aaronpk i have a test suite, i should add your html to it
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aaronpk ok wait i'm gonna go back to this p-in-reply-to issue
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aaronpk tantek: are you saying I should see the same h-cite object in both a "like-of" and "in-reply-to" property? (parsed JSON for reference http://pin13.net/8sV )
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acegiak well I've just fixed that issue with the h-* properties
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tantek drat - 504 Gateway timeout on indiewebcamp.com :(
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aaronpk uhoh
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KartikPrabhu same here
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acegiak tantek: same ehre
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tantek aaronpk yes that makes sense
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tantek except I don't see any in-reply-to in that parsed JSON
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aaronpk back. that was weird.
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snarfed bnvk, kylewm: bridgy publish log links are fixed. debug at will. :P
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aaronpk tantek: ok that is my question, because if so, then I believe it's a bug in the php mf2 parser
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tantek what's the bug? I don't see in-reply-to mentioned at all anywhere in the JSON
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aaronpk right, cause you're looking at the result of the parser :)
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tantek so that sounds more like a markup problem
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tantek maybe make a minimized markup test case?
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aaronpk the HTML in question is here: <div class="u-like-of u-like p-like-of p-in-reply-to h-cite">
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: what is the source? I'll see what mf2py does
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aaronpk i should be able to add a failing test to php-mf2
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tantek aaronpk - that's messed up - why all the properties on the same class?
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Loqi yea
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tantek who is doing that and why? it's like just keep adding random markup?
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acegiak tantek: because the post is a like and a reply?
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acegiak tantek: I'm doing it
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aaronpk isn't that how you indicate an object like h-cite is an in-reply-to?
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tantek it makes no sense to put u-like-of and p-like-of on the same property
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tantek ever
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aaronpk oh yeah the u-* properties aren't doing anything there either
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bnvk snarfed: ah cool cool, looks like Bridgy is showing a bunch of activity for me now :)
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tantek like someone just copy/pasted a bunch of stuff without thinking
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aaronpk this is all it needs, which I believe still has the problem <div class="p-like-of p-in-reply-to h-cite">
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acegiak tantek: we were keeping that for people who were looking fo rhtat specifically
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tantek so that markup *is* busted
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aaronpk acegiak: no, the "u-*" properties make the parser go look for an "href" attribute for the URL
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tantek acegiak - no one should be looking for both u-like-of and p-like-of - that doesn't make any sense
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snarfed bnvk: also figured out why bridgy publish didn't follow the bnvk.me redirect. it doesn't (yet) know about the Refresh header. not sure if i'll add that, but feel free to file an issue if you want it
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aaronpk the one-letter prefixes are for the parser, not the actual consumer of the data
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acegiak tantek: the question was whetehr they would be looking for one or the other
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tantek there is only the "like-of" property - the prefixes tell the parser where to parse for it
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tantek acegiak - that doesn't make sense
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tantek clients look for a "like-of" property not for specific prefixes
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aaronpk (note how the prefixes are not in the parsed JSON)
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tantek exactly
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tantek just do the simple minimal thing
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tantek trying to do too much error handling like that in the publishing will just make it a mess for everyone
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tantek better to make the publishing simple, and let the consumers fix their code
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aaronpk wow I get a zillion failing tests on php-mf2 :(
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KartikPrabhu <article class="h-entry"><div class="p-like-of p-in-reply-to h-cite"></div></article> should be working correctly right?
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KartikPrabhu the h-cite shows up as both "in-reply-to" and "like-of"
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aaronpk the php parser only has "like-of"
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aaronpk test it here http://waterpigs.co.uk/php-mf2/
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tantek.com edited /2014/SF (+376) "add articles section with posts from Amber and Dan" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu oh! mf2py works correctly then. tested on http://kartikprabhu.com/connection/mfparser
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tantek sounds like a good test case and a bug to file on phpmf2
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acegiak tantek: ok so the markup on here is fixed then:
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acegiak http://acegiak.net/2014/03/28/httpaaronparecki-com-so-basically-what-im-hearing-is-in-20-years-ill-be-able-to-video-record-my-dreams-httpmobile-geek-comlatest252771-mind-reading-breakthrough-can-recreate-the-faces-yo/
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tantek why such a long url? that's not very user-friendly
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acegiak tantek: yeah I'm working on it
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: lol can you make your example parser output JSON?
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KartikPrabhu eh! yeah it can but it does not have a http endpoint yet :P
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KartikPrabhu ok how should that work? take a url and output json?
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aaronpk yeah or even just in the one you linked, it's returning some weird format
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aaronpk i think it's like python's object serialization or something? it has a bunch of "u"s in it
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aaronpk but even better would be like how pin13.net does it
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KartikPrabhu yeah I'll make it do JSON
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aaronpk http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faaronparecki.com
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tantek pretty printed please :)
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KartikPrabhu for that there is a http://kylewm.com/api/mf2?url=http://kartikprabhu.com/notes
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aaronpk oh cool
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: unless you don't want that public
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aaronpk ok issue filed. i suspect barnaby will see it in the morning :) https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/issues/42
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aaronpk brb
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KartikPrabhu is on that JSON thingie
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bnvk aighty gents, time for this lil hacker to unplug- g'night
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tantek.com edited /Federated_Social_Web_Summit (+573) "/* Portland 2010 */ make articles its own subsection, add post re: registerprotocolhandler, expand search for posts into actual list of posts" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: fixed to return JSON. url parameter thingie postponed for the time being
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tantek man I hate GoogleGroups permalinks. much markup. so slow to load.
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KartikPrabhu agrees. have started avoiding GG links when I search for code help
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KartikPrabhu its all the JS trickery that Google seems to love nowadays
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tantek aaronpk - looks like www.indiewebcamp links are broken
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KartikPrabhu oopsies
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tantek they should just redirect
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tantek e.g. http://www.indiewebcamp.com/ should redirect permanent to http://indiewebcamp.com/
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tantek and yes there are people that habitually type in www. for no good reason for URLs that they hear / see
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tantek (have seen it numerous times in person)
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aaronpk ooh did I not set it up on the new server? will be a quick fix
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tantek and for some reason Firefox is redirecting me from http://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon to http://www.indiewebcamp.com/Falcon which then gives a 404
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tantek :(
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tantek maybe because it failed to respond before? and it's got some dirty cache of that and trying for the www. version to be "helpful"?
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tantek so annoying
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tantek and it just started working ( http://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon that is )
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+264) "/* Itching */ Payment Links" (view diff)
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aaronpk ok www redirect is in place
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tantek woot!
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Loqi woot
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tantek aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 408 karma
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tantek is going through his open tabs and processing them and closing them, hence the semi-random wiki edits
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kartikprabhu.com created /User:Kartikprabhu.com (+995) "hello world." (view diff)
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tantek should we put http://decentralizecamp.com/ on /events ?
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tantek seems to have some good speakers signed up and is certainly indieweb-like
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kartikprabhu.com edited /User:Kartikprabhu.com (+41) "photo border" (view diff)
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tantek it's in Düsseldorf - who here is Germany again?
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tantek alright - I'm going to put it in the /events list - as we don't have any IndieWebCamps in May anyway - and this seems like a good enough substitute
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aaronpk didn't they pop in here a while back asking about something?
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tantek.com edited /Events (+403) "add Decentralize Camp as it looks similar / complementary to IndieWebCamps, and heck, we didn't have any camps planned in May anyway" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - I think they did, and we asked a bunch of questions, and they went back to go work on it
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tantek since then they've signed up some speakers including adactio and one of the Hoodie guys
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tantek so it's looking more real
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tantek at a minimum they're going to raise awareness about silo problems etc.
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aaronpk cool
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aaronpk I wonder if I could make it out there to do a talk...
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KartikPrabhu is there a way to not have a toc on user page on the wiki?
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: you can add __NOTOC__ to any page to hide the TOC
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KartikPrabhu cool thanks
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aaronpk adds that to /editing
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aaronparecki.com edited /editing (+645) "how to hide or show the table of contents" (view diff)
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kartikprabhu.com edited /User:Kartikprabhu.com (+858) "added setup, itiching sections" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu just made a user page to document progress and to-dos
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aaronpk yay
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: I would eventuallylike to supersede Django's admin interface for posting. I feel like struggling with modifying Django would be futile and I should just use HTML+JS to do some micropubbing
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KartikPrabhu that sound right?
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aaronpk that's a great idea!
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aaronpk make a micropub api using the django framework, then build all the interfaces outside it :)
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KartikPrabhu yup! And if I am moving to a filedb then I don't even have to deal with Django. Just raw python
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aaronpk cool
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KartikPrabhu use Django+MySQL to do some meta-caching things...
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KartikPrabhu cool. that is in the near-far-future. back to webmention parsing...
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aaronpk wow, just discovered a chrome extension that scrobbles music when listening from a bunch of websites
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KartikPrabhu scrobbles?
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aaronpk http://www.last.fm/help/faq?category=99
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KartikPrabhu aah i see
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aaronpk man I can't wait til I scrobble on my own site!
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KartikPrabhu backfeed music to own site? nice idea aaronpk
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KartikPrabhu how about Scrobbler for your app that PESOS from silos?
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KartikPrabhu unless that is TM-ed
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aaronpk they can't trademark it
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aaronpk cause they use it as a regular word in their own docs
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KartikPrabhu aah so there is my second suggestion "scrobbler" or "scrobby"
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aaronpk (trademarks can only be adjectives modifying a generic noun)
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aaronpk so by using forms of "scrobble" in their docs like "scrobbling" and "scrobbles" and using it as a verb, they prevent themselves from being able to trademark it
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KartikPrabhu didn't know that about TMs
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aaronpk the trademark is the thing that distinguishes Kleenex tissues from generic tissues
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KartikPrabhu true. but I didn't realise it had to be a noun-modifier
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aaronpk and Xerox copiers from generic copiers
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KartikPrabhu aka adjective
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aaronpk it's also the same reason two unrelated companies can trademark the same word if they are doing completely different things
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KartikPrabhu aah like Kleenex tissues and Kleenex phones ... (hypothetical)
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aaronpk yep
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aaronpk a lot of companies will go register their trademark in the "clothing" category if they expect to ever make t-shirts
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KartikPrabhu haha!
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ben_thatmustbeme How do you guys syndicate to G+? do you use Moments API or handle it manually?
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm hoping to start on syndication stuff this week
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aaronpk i think most people do it manually cause they don't really have an API for creating things.
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aaronpk i'm not super familiar with it tho, I think snarfed has done more with it?
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ben_thatmustbeme i'll ask him tomorrow
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aaronpk hah yeah, github registered their trademark in clothing!
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aaronpk i would send you a link, but the uspto site doesn't work taht way
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snarfed ben_thatmustbeme: g+ is either manual, private api via biz dev relationship (e.g. wordpress.com and jetpack), or screen scraping (e.g. nextscripts snapp, maybe mailchimp social)
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snarfed afaik the moments api doesn't really surface to users yet
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ben_thatmustbeme thats what i figured, its rather rediculous that they haven't opened that API yet
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ben_thatmustbeme i can imagine they don't want to get innundated by auto-post junk though
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snarfed yup
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KartikPrabhu another way is to somehoe hack the plus+ button, but haven't been able to figure that out yet
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ben_thatmustbeme hmmmmmm
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KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: for your own posts you can have a +1 button and then use that after posting...
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KartikPrabhu but I don't like share buttons on my posts
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aaronpk you could only show it to yourself
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: using some authorization?
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aaronpk i assume you are logged in if you just posted...
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KartikPrabhu yeah that is true. check G+ authorisation for myself and show/hide +1 button
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KartikPrabhu that is a neat idea
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ben_thatmustbeme which is an interesting question though, does bridgy find all +1s for the site?
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snarfed ben_thatmustbeme: only on g+ posts by people signed up for bridgy
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KartikPrabhu aah yes. it might always find your +1 which you'll have to filter out
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KartikPrabhu too much hackery
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snarfed btw ben_thatmustbeme, if you haven't started on fb and twitter syndication, i'll shamelessly plug bridgy's publish support :P
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ben_thatmustbeme i have not. it supports publish ehhhh???
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snarfed yup!
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snarfed and not just posts but likes, comments, retweets too
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KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: I have been using bridgy/publish to POSSE to twitter :)
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KartikPrabhu not big on FB POSSE
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snarfed.org edited /WordPress (+58) "/* POSSE */ Mailchimp Social" (view diff)
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snarfed.org edited /Google+ (+315) "/* POSSE */" (view diff)
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snarfed the first google result for micropub: http://www.micropub.com/
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snarfed a tempting alternative to the protocol
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk first google result for me is the wiki page :)
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KartikPrabhu horrible looking site might I say
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KartikPrabhu for me it is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micropub
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KartikPrabhu basically a small pub
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aaronpk am I gonna have to register a TLD?
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KartikPrabhu micropub.io ?
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ben_thatmustbeme DOH! "Could not parse the web site in your Facebook profile: ben.thatmustbe.me"
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aaronpk i've gotta stop getting .io domains, this is gonna get expensive
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ben_thatmustbeme I have a lot of things to clean up on the site before i start posting through it anyway
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KartikPrabhu yeah .io is quite expensive
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aaronpk especially when you have like 5
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aaronpk how did this even happen
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KartikPrabhu haha
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aaronpk webmention.io twtr.io geobin.io p3k.io terraformer.io oh my
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KartikPrabhu much money! many io
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ben_thatmustbeme hah
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aaronpk you have to use the wrong preposition.
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aaronpk "many money. so io. wow."
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KartikPrabhu "too better"
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ben_thatmustbeme Much Silly
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KartikPrabhu bear: I wrote a Python object (long back) to help send webmentions to some post. Automatically discovers mentions by scanning content of post using ronkyuu. Functions to send mentions to combinations of past and present mentions. Is this something that belongs in ronkyuu itself, I am happy to add it there.
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aaronpk many silly
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KartikPrabhu does Loqi speak Doge?
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Loqi :)
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aaronpk because "much silliness" would be actually correct, so you have to use the wrong word and make the second word as simple as possible.
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ben_thatmustbeme I don't know, but I sort of wonder how good Loqi's regex is
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ben_thatmustbeme s/[^e]*/a/gi
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: aaeaaeaaeaa
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aaronpk wtf
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KartikPrabhu yeah WTF!
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ben_thatmustbeme lol
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aaronpk yep that's abotu right
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ben_thatmustbeme sweet it works
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ben_thatmustbeme s/workd/worked/
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ben_thatmustbeme s/workd/works/
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KartikPrabhu much fail!
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: s/works/worked/
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aaronpk hehe
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ben_thatmustbeme oh, the ways i could abuse Loqi now
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aaronpk that's what you think, until you piss him off and he ignores you
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KartikPrabhu that's true! been there done that
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KartikPrabhu Loqi knows how to keep you in check!
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aaronpk ...and make you look foolish when you least expect it
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ben_thatmustbeme oh i'm sure, i wouldn't overdo it
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KartikPrabhu "anything worth doing, is worth over-doing"
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ben_thatmustbeme i am trying to figure out a regex to turn a statement in to pig latin though
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ben_thatmustbeme s/\ ([^aeiou\ ]*)(\W*)\ /\ \2\1ay/gi
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ben_thatmustbeme thats not it
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aaronpk plugs that in to rubular.com
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ben_thatmustbeme darn, that should have been a lower case w
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ben_thatmustbeme not bad for doing it from memory though
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ben_thatmustbeme plus it wouldn't match the first word
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ben_thatmustbeme s/\ ([^aeiou\ ]*)(\w*)\ /\ \2\1ay/gi
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: plus\ itaywouldn't\ atchmaythe\ irstfayword
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aaronpk try with \b?
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ben_thatmustbeme needs some work
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aaronpk heh
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ben_thatmustbeme got some words in there working
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KartikPrabhu judas priest! wtf regex!!
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KartikPrabhu flips table and walks waya
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ben_thatmustbeme I basically tried to model my life after this... https://xkcd.com/208/
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ben_thatmustbeme s/\b([^aeiou\b]*)(\W*)\b/\ \2\1ay\ /gi
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: \ I ay\ \ ay\ basically\ ay\ \ ay\ tried\ ay\ \ ay\ to\ ay\ \ ay\ model\ my ay\ \ ay\ life\ ay\ \ ay\ after\ ay\ \ ay\ this\ ... https://xkcd.ay\ \ ay\ com\ /208ay\ \ ay\ /
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aaronpk oh god
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ben_thatmustbeme sorry
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aaronpk too much backslash
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aaronpk you don't need to backslash spaces
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ben_thatmustbeme so i see
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ben_thatmustbeme in the right have you don't it seems, i find its a little different in any engine
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ben_thatmustbeme s/\b([^aeiou\b]*)(\W*)\b/\2\1ay/gi
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: ayin ayaythe ayayright ayayhave ayayyou ayaydon't ayayit ayayseems, ayayi ayayfind ayayits ayaya ayaylittle ayaydifferent ayayin ayayany ayayengineay
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ben_thatmustbeme what the hell happened there
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KartikPrabhu WTWTF!
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ben_thatmustbeme sorry Loqi, I'll stop
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ben_thatmustbeme I love you Loqi
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Loqi hugs ben_thatmustbeme
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KartikPrabhu awww!
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ben_thatmustbeme Marry Me Loqi
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ben_thatmustbeme side note, this is what happens when I'm tired
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aaronpk (crickets)
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aaronpk aaaaaawkward
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ben_thatmustbeme Its okay Loqi, you think about it
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ben_thatmustbeme take all the time you need.
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aaronpk didn't someone proposition loqi last week?
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, that was me too
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aaronpk oh ok
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ben_thatmustbeme I've got a think for Norse Gods
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ben_thatmustbeme s/think/thing/
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: I've got a thing for Norse Gods
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KartikPrabhu Loqi: are you a dinosaur?
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm still trying to figure out what happened with that other regex... why the hell did i end up with ayay at the begging of each word
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ben_thatmustbeme doesn't make any sense to me
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ben_thatmustbeme OH, i used the capital W again!
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ben_thatmustbeme s/\b([^aeiou\b]*)(\w*)\b/\2\1ay/gi
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: iOH, ayused aye thayapital cayagain W ayay!
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ben_thatmustbeme i don't like the \b
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ben_thatmustbeme it hates me
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ben_thatmustbeme okay, sleep. I'm officially starting to spam this room and I don't want to do that
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ben_thatmustbeme Good Night all
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Loqi see you in the morning!
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aaronpk gah, stupid youtube for deleting copyrighted videos and not even telling me what the original video was called
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aaronpk i made a video playlist of songs from the old gemstorm game https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAC202792EE9788A7
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aaronpk needs to make a "playlist" post type soon
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aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/p3k/issues/45
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aaronpk now it will be a thing
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aaronpk i just realized I have actually published playlists on my site, they've been there since like 1999
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aaronpk and the music has been self-hosted the whole time too
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: http://www.subtraction.com/2014/03/27/how-to-name-things/
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aaronpk ha
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@posthoc **Pinboard**: â–¶ Rise of the IndieWeb - Amber Case - FutureTalks - YouTube https://t.co/GLU9TyEl75: ** (twitter.com/_/status/450502142068285440)
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tantek a different kind of silo-quit: http://blog.eat24hours.com/breakup-letter-to-facebook-from-eat24/
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tantek ironically, using fb comments
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KevinMarks "There also might be a Greek letter in there somewhere but we’re not sure cuz we got bored and ordered a panini."
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KevinMarks did you see the douchey reply form facebook PR?
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KevinMarks http://blog.eat24hours.com/breakup-letter-to-facebook-from-eat24/?fb_comment_id=fbc_562650213842550_3070100_563122977128607#f35348742
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tantek.com edited /silo-quits (+433) "Eat24 deleting their FB page" (view diff)
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tantek KevinMarks - WAT: @chavdrone?!? https://twitter.com/ChavDrone/status/450507651684659200
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@ChavDrone @MayorofLondon ey mate your window is open i nicked your mobi (twitter.com/_/status/450507651684659200)
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aaronpk tantek: apparently I modified your b10to60 function to work with >32 bit integers, but only in php https://github.com/aaronpk/twtr.io/blob/master/lib.php#L18
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@PodcastFrance J'écoute #onvar 40 de @IndieWebRecords => http://indiewebrecordings.com/podcasts/onvar/Onvar-Episode-40.mp3 (twitter.com/_/status/450517358663458816)
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KartikPrabhu "Look Facebook, all we’re saying is that we wanted to share a joke about chicken wings, not ponder astrophysics." that is just bad complaining it I ever saw one.
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KartikPrabhu ref: http://blog.eat24hours.com/breakup-letter-to-facebook-from-eat24/
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aaronpk yeah I don't see the problem with pondering astrophysics
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KartikPrabhu also they seem to complaining that FB used math in their algo!
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KevinMarks wait, tantek , where did that come from?
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KartikPrabhu never! in all my years
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KartikPrabhu speaking of astrophysics back to doing some of that...
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KevinMarks astrophysics++
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Loqi astrophysics has 1 karma
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KartikPrabhu ha!
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KevinMarks has anyone tried meteor? Their blog looked interesting https://github.com/Differential/meteor-blog
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KevinMarks hm, the js-focused, data in JSON model has some tensions with indieweb/microformats philosophy
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KartikPrabhu in what respect?
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KevinMarks the HTML as data worldview
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KevinMarks file orientation
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KartikPrabhu so any other file format for data storage would be against indieweb/mf philosophy?
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KevinMarks not necessarily, but there is a potential dependency fragility there
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KevinMarks I'm trying to mentally square the circle here - Meteor has nice dynamic updates, but static rendering is also a win
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KartikPrabhu interesting... I just started using YAML as a file format to store data (for replies/responses and such) would that count as fragile?
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KevinMarks YAML is a bit too extensive - that was how ruby got compromised http://www.sitepoint.com/anatomy-of-an-exploit-an-in-depth-look-at-the-rails-yaml-vulnerability/
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KevinMarks make sure you're not enabling such atatcks
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KevinMarks JSON is declarative, as long as you're not using naive eval parsing
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KevinMarks YAML has grown a lot of extensions that can cause problems
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KevinMarks the fragility is different
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KevinMarks js-based sites are fragile against browser variations
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KevinMarks twitter went that way, then backed off
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KartikPrabhu agreed with the JS assessment! Google also seems to be going that way
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KevinMarks the future version of this (IMO) is sql <-> json <-> html consistency
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KevinMarks which at the moment may require some complex transformations
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KartikPrabhu so you are sql leaning?
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KartikPrabhu for database things
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KevinMarks think browserfify extended to htmlify
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KevinMarks SQL brings CRUD, which is tricky
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KevinMarks a version control model is closer to functional thinking
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KartikPrabhu hmmm
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KevinMarks I need to write this up, but the mapreduce worldview assumes you cna create databases from documents
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KevinMarks and that databases are inherently volatile and iterative
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KevinMarks whereas the SQL worldview sees databases as ideal and pure, and documents as volatile reports you generate from them
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: They can both be inter converted of course. Which on is "pure" and which is "volatile" depends on what is using it and how I think... Would be an interesting blogpost
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KartikPrabhu as a complete aside saw the Dave Winer wiki page. Man the talk page is contentious
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KevinMarks I haven't looked, not sure I want to
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KevinMarks hm
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KevinMarks http://kmevents.meteor.com/blog seems to work, but I am nervous
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voxpelli KevinMarks: The empty body tag of that site makes an indie-crawler/parser want to cry
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KevinMarks quite. That is the tension of these things
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KartikPrabhu much JS. more bad
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tommorris KartikPrabhu: to be fair to Dave Winer, the contention on the WP talk page is undeserved. Most of it was drama stirred up by a user who was banned.
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tommorris KartikPrabhu: I’d forgotten I was involved in that ban. ;)
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KartikPrabhu oh of course. not blaming Winer at all for that
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tommorris Not only was I involved in the ban, I actually dropped the block. Funny how quickly I forget the history on that.
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KartikPrabhu yeah just saw you name on there
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bnvk is there a page on the wiki regarding migrating one's indie web site to a new domain?
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voxpelli bnvk: any particular challenges in regards to moving a site to a new domain that you are thinking about?
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bnvk voxpelli: specifically the ability for others sites to update my syndicated data, should I send them some sort "hey, my home has moved from domain1.com/note/213 to dom2.com/note213
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voxpelli bnvk: Sending a HTTP 301 status back from the old domain with a location-header pointing to the new one would be enough as I see it
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voxpelli bnvk: for each page on the old domain that is
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bnvk voxpelli: right a 301 from the old domain seems like the right first step
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bnvk just curious if we should document this somewhere so to start thinking about the flow / approach for notifying sites of this 301 so they can handle it properly & I don't have to keep paying for old domain indefinitely
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@equivalentideas databases-antipattern - IndieWebCamp http://indiewebcamp.com/databases-antipattern via @instapaper (twitter.com/_/status/450610161866899456)
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voxpelli bnvk: well, as I see it the indie web is just like the ordinary web and links aren’t really meant to become invalid
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bnvk ah idealism
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voxpelli bnvk: I don’t think it’s feasible to actively notify people about the move
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bnvk if only the world adhered to it :)
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voxpelli if I were to have done all of my tweets indie web style then that would mean thousands of notifications of I ever were to move to a new domain
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bnvk surely one wouldn't want to say update 10K+ messages NOW, but a que that churns through it
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bnvk at some sensible rate
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barnabywalters in theory an update webmention could be sent for each one, which returns a 301 redirect, and some piece of software goes through and sends them all
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bnvk yah
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barnabywalters then it’s “safe” to turn the old domain off
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bnvk yes
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voxpelli in theory a site with webmentions could opt to ”recrawl” the comments as well to find out about this
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bnvk voxpelli: is that you think the use case is not valuable, or just difficult to implement sensibly?
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bnvk right
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voxpelli bnvk: I think that in the case of a pubsubhubbub subscription it makes lots of sense as the other sites has handed the responsibility of notifying it over to you
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barnabywalters voxpelli: yeah, I keep an archive of everything I link to so one thing I considered was recrawling periodically, and replacing the links with links to the archived versions if the original 404s
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voxpelli in the other cases I’m not so sure – a link is a link – no matter if it was made through webmention or made manually
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bnvk seems like there could be 2 approaches to this... sites crawl their own comments detecting the health of domains, or sites send notifications to others sites to "update me"
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bnvk I mean, I think this sort of thing would be useful even if one does not change domain, but say changes publishing platform
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voxpelli I mean – people likely links to you outside of your webmentions to them – those links would ideally have to be updated as well
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bnvk like /note/345 ----> /note/f5e82
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bnvk changing one's personal domain is less likely, but publishing platforms absolutely is something that will happen
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voxpelli URL changes within the same domain I think is 100% the job of HTTP redirects, not that hard to generate, most systems support it
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bnvk yet, again, reality... I am constantly amazed at how often major news sites have dead links to 5+ yr old posts
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bnvk anywho, you raise good concerns & points- thanks for chatting voxpelli :)
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voxpelli bnvk: good that you brought up the discussion, important one :)
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bnvk is there preferred nomenclature for "origin site" and "replicated site" ?
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barnabywalters bnvk: “old” and “new”?
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bnvk no, more so, my site django.bnvk.me (moved to just brennannovak.com) ---> waterpigs.co.uk
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bnvk django would be old
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bnvk brennannovak.com would be new
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bnvk but what do I call your site? remote?
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bnvk does that make sense?
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barnabywalters well in webmention vocabulary waterpigs.co.uk is the target of the webmention
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barnabywalters so django.bnvk.me is the “old source”, brennannovak.com is the “new source” and waterpigs.co.uk is the “target”
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bnvk sure, target works for me
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brennannovak.com created /migration (+1250) "Created page with "Ideally people will create their IndieWeb sites and their data will live at the same URL forever and ever into eternity. In reality, it seems this is unlikely, as people do cha..."" (view diff)
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@localherodotbiz @dougmckown stick with Wordpress. More indieweb plugins are being written all the time. (twitter.com/_/status/450621628485881856)
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KartikPrabhu lol! http://osrc.dfm.io/kartikprabhu What the what!
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cweiske my posse user on github is a "serious php expert" ... http://osrc.dfm.io/cweiske-mirror
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KartikPrabhu "It seems like cweiske-mirror is—or should be—friends with Christian Weiske." Lol
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bnvk hehe, I should be friends with barnabywalters http://osrc.dfm.io/brennannovak :P
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ben_thatmustbeme good morning all
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KartikPrabhu and I should be friends with Ryan Barrett cc: snarfed
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snarfed morning!
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KartikPrabhu morning!
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snarfed ah yes. that thing is fun!
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ben_thatmustbeme how is everyone this fine day (though its rainy here)
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KartikPrabhu I found that while checking how my site is doing on Google's ranking
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KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: very well! seems the Spring has finally come to Chicago!
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ben_thatmustbeme So I tried to fix up my regex from last night
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ben_thatmustbeme s/\b([^aeiou ]*)(\w*)\b/\2\1ay /gi
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: oSay ay  Iay ay  iedtray ay  otay ay  ixfay ay  upay ay  myay ay  egexray ay  omfray ay  astlay ay  ightnay ay 
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ben_thatmustbeme damn, that worked in vim :P
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ben_thatmustbeme or rather in sed
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ben_thatmustbeme s/\b([^aeiou ]*)(\w+)\b/\2\1ay /gi
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: oray  atherray  inay  edsay 
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ben_thatmustbeme just the spacing, but i got it
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KartikPrabhu Loqi keeps thwarting your efforts
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ben_thatmustbeme that one I had right, its just the space, easy to fix
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ben_thatmustbeme i just didn't want to bother again
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KartikPrabhu haha yes
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ben_thatmustbeme if you run that last one and change ay /gi to ay/gi you have it
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bnvk !tell snarfed would you ever consider hacking Bridgy to be it's own app that's easy to install a given users server a la http://indiewebcamp.com/store
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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snarfed bnvk: maybe!
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Loqi snarfed: bnvk left you a message 28 seconds ago: would you ever consider hacking Bridgy to be it's own app that's easy to install a given users server a la http://indiewebcamp.com/store
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bnvk oh, you're here, oops :)
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snarfed lol np
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snarfed the long pole would be, it'd need a container like appscale, which i haven't used before, but i'd be happy to try
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snarfed on an unrelated note, i deployed the refresh header fix just now. bnvk.me should work for both publishing and listening. feel free to try
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bnvk I just saw that :)
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bnvk seems like a great candidate for an "Indie Web App Bundle" that would alleviate future scaling issues
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snarfed sure!
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bnvk mind if I update the store with that?
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snarfed honestly, i don't really expect scaling issues. it's pretty efficient right now, and scaling would only cost money. still, happy to have people try porting it
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snarfed most of the work would be devops, not writing code. if someone else wanted to drive, i'd be happy to hep!
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snarfed definitely go ahead and update the store
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bnvk cool
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bnvk would also be interesting how it could act in the backround and just write messages to disk
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bnvk similar to how unix email systems work
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bnvk bridgy could just save whatever it gets from the social networks- which is what Lockerproject used to kinda do
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bnvk except they used this monoculture dataformat
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snarfed or thinkup or socialsafe or gnip or datasift, etc
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snarfed yeah
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bnvk yah
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bnvk ah, thinkup I sorta forgot about that
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snarfed have you seen http://asheville.io/ ?
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snarfed very early but interesting
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bnvk nope
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bnvk hrm, just a spec at present, yes?
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brennannovak.com edited /store (+13) "/* Apps */" (view diff)
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voxpelli thinks activitystreams / feeds solves that problem enough already
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snarfed bnvk: also a frontend
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snarfed he's looking at doing the backend unhosted style
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snarfed voxpelli: for your own stuff, yes, but not as effectively for responses (comments, likes, etc)
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voxpelli snarfed: that’s because of lack of deployments rather than lack in standards, right?
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snarfed sure
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bnvk snarfed: also IIRC, Thinkup has a really heavy front-end focused on providing a social-media dashboard
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snarfed but adoption is arguably the hard part. it arguably doesn't matter that ostatus/activitystreams exist, sadly, because no one who matters uses them
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snarfed bnvk: sure. it's open source though
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bnvk agreed
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bnvk Thinkup is quite cool & really helpful for accounts with large followings, but seems quite different than the task of just saving my tweets + facebook activity to disk that I can then render in a conversation thread on my site
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gRegor` Morning, indieweb
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snarfed morning gRegor`
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voxpelli snarfed: yeah, so sad to see many new initiatives focus on the technical aspects of it – as if that ever has been the problem over the last couple of years
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snarfed voxpelli: eh, we're hackers, it's what we do. we have a hammer. :P
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voxpelli snarfed: hackers hack – hackers don’t talk ;) we build then standardize – not standardize, then re-standardize
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snarfed bnvk: definitely. lots of my work tackles that in different ways. not just bridgy but https://github.com/snarfed/activitystreams-unofficial , http://freedom.io/ , http://twitter-atom.appspot.com/ and friends
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snarfed voxpelli: heh, true! but in this space, neither hacking nor standardizing drives adoption, necessarily
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bnvk voxpelli: agreed, it is sad, but like I tinkered with activity streams on my Social-Igniter project for ages, I never found the community materialize / other sites to talk to + the whole OSTATUS stack was ridiculously complex
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bnvk snarfed: awesome!!! didn't realize you had done sooo much in that space
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snarfed thanks! and fwiw, activitystreams-unofficial *does* include responses. would be pretty easy to write a minimal main.py and stick it in a cron job to grab your own stuff plus responses. not polished for others, but something
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bnvk i'm borrowing this line of thinking as per the unix philosophy of have one piece of software do one small task really well, figure out how to make those components work with other components
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voxpelli +1 on the components approach
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snarfed btw, the archive downloads that FB and G+ and Twitter all offer are now really good. more for end users than hackers, and not set up to regularly sync, but still
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bnvk they are, but the formats are all mixed up
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bnvk and we need something that is ongoing and doesn't require any user action
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snarfed definitely. that's exactly what mark wants to build w/asheville. you should ping him!
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bnvk ah I see
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voxpelli how can’t we save the stuff in activitystreams activities or h-entries?
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bnvk snarfed: but why not just add onto bridgy?
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bnvk voxpelli: there's no reason we can't, in fact h-entry would probably make a lot of sense
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snarfed bnvk: we can, but i'm not sure we should. it's a big and different problem. activitystreams-unofficial would be a perfect building block though!
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bnvk or .yml or .md files... not sure
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snarfed (much of bridgy's guts are in activitystreams-unofficial anyway)
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bnvk ah Ok
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snarfed voxpelli: yup. i'd be happy to help support anyone who wants to work on this and use activitystreams-unofficial
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voxpelli would be great to establish the way of exposing the activitystreams communities work on activities in h-entries
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voxpelli I know eg. tantek has already done some work there
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voxpelli related http://indiewebcamp.com/ActivityStreams
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bnvk I definitely don't have the bandwidth cycles to work on this at present except for advising / UX flows stuff, but seems like a really worthwhile thing
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brennannovak.com edited /store (+533) "/* Key Features */" (view diff)
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bnvk barnabywalters: oh snap, another bug http://indiewebify.me/send-webmentions/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbrennannovak.com%2Fnotes%2F412
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barnabywalters bnvk: add an issue :)
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barnabywalters does anyone here use docker?
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kartikprabhu.com edited /databases-antipattern (+191) (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu added a IndieWeb Usage section to the database-antipattern page, feel free to add your storage use case there
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KartikPrabhu I don't think most indieweb usage conforms to the database-antipattern viewpoint so would be good have documented cases
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kartikprabhu.com edited /User:Kartikprabhu.com (+23) "/* Itching */" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /databases-antipattern (+79) "/* IndieWeb Usage */" (view diff)
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: Any thoughts on where we should meet April 9th? Intelligentsia downtown is open until 8. http://www.yelp.com/biz/intelligentsia-coffee-chicago-6
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: It's not huge and I'm not sure how busy / noisy it might be Wednesday at 6:30
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tantek gRegor`, KartikPrabhu your indieweb usage doesn't really deserve to be hidden in an anti-pattern article. I'm going to make a /MySQL article and move your usage there
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gRegor` tantek: sounds good
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tantek.com created /MySQL (+603) "stub with indieweb usage, see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /databases-antipattern (-178) "move indieweb usage of MySQL to a MySQL article instead of burying it here, linky linky" (view diff)
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tantek gRegor`, KartikPrabhu what's the name of the software/project CMS's that you're running on your sites? I left ??? in place here: http://indiewebcamp.com/MySQL
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gregorlove.com edited /MySQL (+14) "/* IndieWeb Usage */ +Nucleus" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /mysql (+19) "redirect page" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I'm just using A custom Django installation. No name other than that :P
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tantek KartikPrabhu: that's ok - you can say that - or you can name your "project in the making"
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tantek actually I thought I saw you did - like on your User: page...
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kbs KartikPrabhu: I think I would offer https://github.com/kbsriram/kbsriram.github.io if I didn't also feel that my ragtag of random scripts would probably drive most people off the use-documents-vs-database principle :)
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KartikPrabhu gRegor`: are we trying to sync with the SF/PDX homebrew website club meeting?
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kbs egregiously abuses github out of laziness
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: I was thinking that initially, though obviously in Central time. I don't mind meeting at a different time.
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cweiske.de edited /MySQL (+84) "/* IndieWeb Usage */ add stapibas" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: my blog was and continues to be called Parallel Transport but there is no name still for whatever code I am using... some day
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tantek oh ok, I thought "Parallel Transport" was the name of your project :)
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tantek (it's a pretty cool name)
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kartikprabhu.com edited /MySQL (+29) "/* IndieWeb Usage */" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu1 gRegor`: I think the SF and PDX people sync over video and irc notes, but we can just meet at a good Chicago time and post notes
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KartikPrabhu1 to update folks in stuff we did
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tantek that would be great!
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gRegor` Yeah, that's what I was figuring.
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tantek also - I can give you guys a Vidyo URL that you can use with your laptop to join the video conf
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tantek aaronpk has some advice on microphones
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tantek (which we should probably capture somewhere on the wiki :) )
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KartikPrabhu1 joining live over video would be hard given the famed connection speeds in cafes :P
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KartikPrabhu1 wait who is using my name!
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cweiske.de edited /User:Cweiske.de (+639) "software I wrote to leave the cloud" (view diff)
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gRegor` It will also be 8:30 Chicago time, so I don't think we'll be able to join anyway.
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KartikPrabhu brb lunch
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Loqi j12t: tantek left you a message on 3/18 at 10:27am: are you still using Open Photo / Trovebox "running a private instance for … family pictures" ?
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j12t Just noticed there’s a new .camp tld. Seems open to all comers. http://www.schlundtech.com/camp-domain/
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ben_thatmustbeme so who wants to get indieweb.camp
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cweiske.de edited /User:Cweiske.de (-107) (view diff)
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bret GitHub is using the term 'silo' in their latest blog post: https://github.com/blog/1814-collaborating-with-lists
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bret Sweet :)
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aaronpk oh man a .camp tld? keep me far away
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tantek bret - awesome
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kylewm qv. https://twitter.com/hertling/status/449574638671372288 is there a section of the wiki for what you can do if you're "not a programmer"?
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@hertling IndieWeb is hugely important, but I hope we can include more than just programming technorati in the movement. http://electricabacus.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/the-indieweb-revolution-and-other-reasons-you-should-learn-to-code/?utm_content=buffer1d679&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer (twitter.com/_/status/449574638671372288)
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kylewm because I feel like there is *A LOT* than you can do without writing any code
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bret Having a domain and some static HTML is pretty easy
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aaronpk hertling is a friend of amber and i, he came to a homebrew meetup a couple weeks ago
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kylewm and maybe also a good starting place for programmers who want to get their feet wet without writing a CMS
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kylewm bret: with a domain and static HTML (and curl), you could also send webmentions (!) which I think people would not realize at first
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KartikPrabhu Gen 2 is getting interested... nice!
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kylewm aaronpk: cool! I wasn't wanting to respond to him directly, just like the idea
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kylewm and i'd be interested in writing a little bit if it's not already there
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aaronpk feel free to!
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: for some reference: http://indiewebcamp.com/generations
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aaronpk i don't think we have any pages specifcally targeting gen 2 yet
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KartikPrabhu true and now would be a good time
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kylewm ok thanks, that's encouraging :) i'll put that on my todo list. someone at IWC SF said something along the lines of 'first do it manually, and then once you've figured out if you want to do it a lot, worryabout automating it' ... lots of fun stuff you can do manually
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KartikPrabhu yes.
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aaronpk that sounds like something I would say
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kylewm woohoo, twitter auth working on indieauth, aaronpk++
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aaronpk yay!
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Loqi giggles
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aaronpk should have no problems with peoples' SSL certs on their sites now too
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kylewm.com edited /User:Kylewm.com (+323) "/* Other goals */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /File:logitech-hd-pro-webcam-c920.png "http://loqi.me/asin/B006JH8T3S"
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snarfed kylewm++ for starting manual everything
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Loqi kylewm has 6 karma
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tantek re: section of the wiki for what you can do if you're "not a programmer" - it's called "Getting Started"
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started
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tantek there's a lot of you can do there without any coding
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tantek and then we can get into the whole modern literacy discussion (HTML is modern punctuation etc.) http://tantek.com/2011/148/t6/tipsy-designers-sketching-html-literacy-sketchcamp
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tantek catches up on logs
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tantek KevinMarks - not sure where I saw that eat24 thing - maybe randomly on Twitter?
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tantek I dipped in briefly to see if my suspicions about too many "comment" tweets was still true
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kbs so, I have a tiny graph problem puzzle and a silly solution :) you can poke holes it [or if you prefer, solve independently and compare if you feel inclined]. First, the puzzle (and it's related to my current playing with rel=me links)
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kbs So I have a directed graph, with a special source node - I know this source node is connected to all the other node via some path. Okay? that's the property of this graph
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kbs now I want to find the strongly connected component of this graph, that contains this node [ie, every pair of vertices of this subgraph is connected]
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kbs (the context being essentially, a proof graph that locks all these sites as being connected via rel=me links, if you're curious)
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kbs So I have a pretty dumb solution, that I can't convince myself is wrong - but figure you folks might want to have a bash at a solution first, so let me know if any of this sounds interesting to you :)
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kbs is not interested in tarjan either :)
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KartikPrabhu is bad at combinatorics and graphs :(
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aaronpk really enjoyed combinatorics and somewhat graph theory in college, but that was a some time ago.
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kbs I think you're about a couple of decades younger than me :) no excuses
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aaronpk !
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aaronpk i have no idea how old you are, but you don't look *that* old
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kbs is getting very close to the half-century mark
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tantek kbs - I think the IdentEngine source did some smart rel=me figuring out
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tantek I'd start there
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kbs tantek: ah, ok. This was more in the nature of a puzzle really, and more to see if someone else arrived at the same dumb idea as me :), I'll poke there to see how they did it
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tantek I think an abstract puzzle like that is a math problem / theoretical.
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tantek In the context of rel=me, there's a lot more information you can use to develop simpler solutions.
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /File:bose-soundlink-bluetooth-speaker.png "http://loqi.me/asin/B00D5Q75RC"
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aaronparecki.com created /remote-participation (+899) "add hardware recommendations for remote participation" (view diff)
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aaronpk k I started this page http://indiewebcamp.com/remote-participation
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kbs hm, identengne must be doing something different from what I'm thinking, clearly
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KevinMarks we could ask bradfitz, who wrote the rel-me crawler for google
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kbs what I'd love to know actually, is if doing a dfs on the reversed graph is correct (more curious about the algorithm actually :)
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kbs ie, assuming I've crawled from site "source", doing a dfs on the reversed graph of rel=me links gives me all the sites that have a chain of connections both ways to "source" - more just a puzzle I happend to stumble upon, etc...
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kbs I'm probably missing something in how identengine works, but as far as I can see so far it is (was, I guess :) mostly delegating the query to the social graph api maybe?
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KevinMarks the social graph api would start form a url and return all linked urls and whether they linked back
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KevinMarks it followed rel="me" chains
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ben_thatmustbeme oh god, this google maps pokemon thing has killed my productivity today
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@mrmzholland (http://bupk.es/indieweb/) (twitter.com/_/status/450723229078786048)
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@equivalentideas Twitter photo tagging :( strong reminder to get indie auth and POSSE set up @indiewebcamp http://indiewebcamp.com/principles (twitter.com/_/status/450730325501423617)
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aaronpk whoa https://blog.twitter.com/2014/photos-just-got-more-social
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gRegor` Doesn't fall under a traditional site-death since it's more an app in conjunction with the site, but Readmill (ebook app) is shutting down: https://readmill.com/epilogue
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gRegor` You could post reviews and comments on the ebooks though, so some content creation.
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gRegor` Nvm, see someone beat me to it. :)
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@lightcoin Lots of cool stuff added since the last time I checked out the @redecentralize website http:///about/ #p2p #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/450735780332580865)
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aaronpk oh no what did I do to twtr.io
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KartikPrabhu yeah it is 404ing
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aaronpk fixed
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KartikPrabhu tested OK
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KartikPrabhu 200
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@GroupSRCbros RT @lightcoin: Lots of cool stuff added since the last time I checked out the @redecentralize website http:///about/ #p2p #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/450737358753652736)
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@sshcoin RT @lightcoin: Lots of cool stuff added since the last time I checked out the @redecentralize website http:///about/ #p2p #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/450737935143280640)
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tantek odd about the http:///about/ URLs in tweets from Loqi
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Loqi dude
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tantek yes Loqi?
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tantek e.g. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-03-31/line/1396299123
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aaronpk it's when the server returns relative redirects :(
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ben_thatmustbeme no, its The Dude, his dudeness, the dude-arino
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tantek which server?
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aaronpk also wtf
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aaronpk curl -I http://redecentralize.org/about/ -> Location: /about/
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aaronpk that makes no sense, that's the same page I just requested
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aaronpk oh damn it's github again
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aaronpk redecentralize.org is hosted on github pages
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aaronpk not the only one seeing this problem with github http://subosito.com/fix-302-redirect-response-for-github-hosted-site
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aaronpk and http://stackoverflow.com/questions/20885695/why-is-my-github-hosted-site-responding-with-http-302-instead-of-200
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aaronpk they sorta documented it here https://developer.github.com/v3/#http-redirects
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aaronpk "Temporary redirection. The request should be repeated verbatim to the URI specified in the Location header field but clients should continue to use the original URI for future requests."
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tantek.com edited /communication (+963) "/* Articles */ add challenge/problem subsection and link to Can We Talk article, add h-cite markup" (view diff)
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aaronpk yeah that's super consistent and annoying
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aaronpk github will often return a 302 and (relative) location header back to the same URL that you request, and on the second request it returns the actual HTML
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@indieporch Judy Davis at the premiere of web series 'Enlightens' and 'Chronicles of a Profiler' #indieweb http://indieporch.com/post/80 https://twitter.com/indieporch/status/450749298125205505/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/450749298125205505)
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tantek.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+135) "Brad Feld: Stopping Writing For Other Web Sites" (view diff)
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@MailpileTeam @lunesoup you might want to checkout http://indiewebcamp.com and what the #IndieWeb are working on! (twitter.com/_/status/450760979086077952)
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KartikPrabhu catches up
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snarfed KartikPrabhu, i saw that you've kept using bridgy publish for twitter
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snarfed great!
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snarfed any new pain points?
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KartikPrabhu I think the improved shortening is great! But it still does not match Twitter's own shortening, which is what people might expect. any reason?
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snarfed link shortening?
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KartikPrabhu yeah
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KartikPrabhu and letter counting too
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KartikPrabhu let me try to find an example
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snarfed thanks, those definitely help
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snarfed good to konw
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snarfed link shortening is different, as in, you see more or fewer characters of the link? or something else?
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KartikPrabhu i think fewer in Bridgy... but I should find examples that'll be illustrative
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snarfed yup those would definitely help
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KartikPrabhu eh! Bridgy does not give preview of already POSSEd tweets! how do I find examples now... :P
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snarfed i think i have a single hard-coded t.co length right now, and i should have different ones for http vs https since they're one off
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KevinMarks tantek's tweet length counting is good
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snarfed aww really? that's unfortunate, i should fix that
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KartikPrabhu is it possible to give a preview but still warn that it has already been POSSEd
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aaronpk snarfed: yeah twitter's t.co lenghts are documented on their site, it's different for http and https
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aaronpk also it went up by one a few months ago, they don't promise to keep it the same forever
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KevinMarks https://github.com/tantek/cassis/blob/master/cassis.js does it
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aaronpk there is an API endpoint that will tell you the current values
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KartikPrabhu I was talking to a friend about webRTC... do you think silos will adopt that standard?
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: the "Sign in with Twitter" button also lost its style
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KevinMarks if you're using js or PHP, strlen(tw_text_proxy(tweet))
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: hah right. silly. fixing.
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KevinMarks KartikPrabhu: g+ will, yes
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snarfed aaronpk: yup, i filed an issue to use that api endpoint, and immediately killfiled it since it was so low value
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KartikPrabhu for hangouts?
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KevinMarks I think so - that seems the goal
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KartikPrabhu hmm is webRTC supposed to supersede XMPP? I know GTalk was XMPP based and the seem to be mving that to Hangouts too
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tantek aaronpk, went up by 2. heh.
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tantek yeah, precomputing tweet lengths is a bit of a pain, but doable
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pdurbin KartikPrabhu: you make it sound like XMPP is going away
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snarfed tantek: yup. not as hard as the other way around though. the alg to linkify entities (mentions, hashtags, links) in tweet text takes some serious bookkeeping
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aaronpk bear would know about webRTC/xmpp :)
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bear ?
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aaronpk "is webRTC supposed to supersede XMPP?"
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KevinMarks that is weird isn't it snarfed
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: here is an example. original note: http://kartikprabhu.com/notes/princeton-women
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KartikPrabhu Bridgy short: "I am appalled" doesn't even begin to sum it up: mathbabe.org/2014/03... (kartikprabhu.com/not...)
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KartikPrabhu Twitter short: "I am appalled" doesn't even begin to sum it up: http://mathbabe.org/2014/03/20/optimizing-for-einstein-and-other-homo-erotic-theories/ … (http://kartikprabhu.com/notes/princeton-women …)
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KartikPrabhu Twitter url: https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/447894001962598400
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@kartik_prabhu "I am appalled" doesn't even begin to sum it up: http://mathbabe.org/2014/03/20/optimizing-for-einstein-and-other-homo-erotic-theories/ (http://kartikprabhu.com/notes/princeton-women) (twitter.com/_/status/447894001962598400)
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KevinMarks why they don't just provide an HTML version in the API rather than all those pointers
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snarfed KevinMarks: the bookkeeping? yeah. also totally doable, but delicate. i've fixed sooo many bugs in mine.
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bear the xmpp community is making sure that WebRTC and XMPP work together
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snarfed thanks KartikPrabhu!
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KartikPrabhu i guess the XMPP/webRTC togetherness was part of my question! :)
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pdurbin bear: do you consider yourself part of those communities? (just curious)
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bear pdurbin - i'm the chairman of the XSF Board - so kinda yes
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bear and I work for &yet which is trying to bring WebRTC to everyone via simplewebrtc and other libs
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pdurbin looks at http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/
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bear oh, our website is horrible right now - we have a group of folks trying to make it less like a website designed by server geeks
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KartikPrabhu I thought XMPP and webRTC did the same thing and so one would replace the other... but it seems not from is being said here
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bear their is some crossover
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KevinMarks not really
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KevinMarks the hard part is the signalling which is out of scope for WebRTC
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KevinMarks also you may need to tunnel, which is a major pain
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bear nods
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KartikPrabhu i see.
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tantek huh, no XMPP page on the wiki
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aaronpk it's not really web...
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bear some people use xmpp as the signalling part of webrtc
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KartikPrabhu yeah I did check that first tantek ;)
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tantek yay! :)
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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bear yea, I haven't added an xmpp section because I don't have working code of how to use xmpp from an indieweb site
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KartikPrabhu getting into good #indiewebcamp habits
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KevinMarks WebRTC reveals how far we are from a neutral web
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KartikPrabhu meaning?
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pdurbin yes, XMPP is not of the web... of course, neither is IRC :)
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tantek.com created /XMPP (+240) "stub" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /xmpp (+18) "r" (view diff)
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tantek bear, yeah, that's a good reason to not write a lot of prose on an XMPP page :)
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bear pdurbin we are working on a library that allows xmpp in the web to be a normal experience
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tantek however, we can still create stub pages, especially when there are several other pages that reference the terminology
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bear once our otalk.im test site gets out of internal beta it will be much easier to use
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pdurbin bear: does it have a name? this library?
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KartikPrabhu also no /webrtc
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bear pdurbin - yes https://github.com/legastero/stanza.io
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tantek.com edited /PubSubHubbub (+8) "linky linky" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /messaging (+3) "/* IM */ linky" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu I know at least one webRTC expt, first example on http://indiewebcamp.com/phone whatever happened to that?
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tantek.com edited /history (+10) "linky, note between silos" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Hakkan (+16) "linky linky" (view diff)
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pdurbin bear: cool. thanks
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tantek looks at /phone
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tantek.com edited /phone (+36) "/* See Also */ comm, msg" (view diff)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: interesting - several links to a WebRTC page, but no page
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KartikPrabhu nods
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bear.im edited /XMPP (+364) "stanza.io and xmpp-ftw links" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /WebRTC (+233) "stub" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /webrtc (+20) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /phone (+25) "linky linky see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /WebRTC (+56) "see also html5rocks webrtc basics" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2014-03-09-this-week-in-the-indieweb (+4) "/* Saturday 8th March */ linky" (view diff)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: there you go: http://indiewebcamp.com/WebRTC
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bear.im edited /WebRTC (+27) "add simplewebrtc link" (view diff)
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snarfed k KartikPrabhu, you can now preview posts that have already been published
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snarfed thanks for the nudge!
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snarfed that was way harder that it should have been. but no matter.
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snarfed i'll look at the twitter char counting tonight
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tantek hopes snarfed doesn't judge his code too badly.
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snarfed aww
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snarfed not in this case
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snarfed thanks though!
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tantek it's not very pretty. but it "works" and is live on my site. ;)
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pdurbin bear: are you the TWiT bear?
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bear pdurbin - yes
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pdurbin NICE
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bear :)
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pdurbin bear: are any of the channels on irc.twit.tv logged like this one?
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bear none of them are - it's been a hot topic and always gets voted down by the moderators
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pdurbin huh. ok
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bear different irc communities value different things
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bear I just keep the server running with it's many ddos attacks and user swarms
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pdurbin god's work
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bear it keeps me from getting bored
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pdurbin bear: you should check out http://crimsonfu.github.io :)
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aaronpk sometimes I wish getting bored was a potential problem I could have
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bear touche aaronpk … touche
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bear knows that needs some grave accents and the like
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bnvk ahoy
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snarfed hi bnvk!
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bnvk how's the weather over in the Bay?
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snarfed rainy
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snarfed meh