#indiewebcamp 2014-05-08

2014-05-08 UTC
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tantek !tell benwerd that is awesome!!! (setting up IIW folks in person). The IndieWebologist is IN. :D
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gRegor` Now displaying Facebook likes (scroll down): http://gregorlove.com/2014/01/1178/#comments
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silencematters.com edited /2014/Guest_List (+313) "/* East */" (view diff)
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silencematters.com edited /2014/Guest_List (+15) "/* East */" (view diff)
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snarfed nice work gRegor`!
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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indie-visitor jeremyzilar
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KevinMarks Benwerd tell them about your indie web vending
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tantek and boom IndieWebCamp 2014 East passes West in number of RSVPs
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tantek !tell aaronpk, caseorganic, benwerd and boom IndieWebCamp 2014 East passes West in number of RSVPs, 5 to 4. You gonna let that stand? Let's see if West can bring in the RSVPs before East pulls further ahead. ;)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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rascul ooo maybe i can make that one
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/webmention (+48) "/* Displaying webmentions */ example" (view diff)
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@indiewebcamp RT @benwerd: If you're an #iiw participant without your own website, I would love to set you up with your own domain and #indieweb site tom… (twitter.com/_/status/464201070479032321)
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@indiewebcamp RT @t: going to Homebrew Website Club, 2014-05-07 18:30 @MozSF. indieweb: http://werd.io/2014/homebrew-website-club-4 silo: https://www.facebook.com/events/1430990723825351/ (ttk.me t4Vv1) (twitter.com/_/status/464201376898117634)
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gRegor` Signing off for Chicago HWC
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@lightcoin RT @benwerd: If you're an #iiw participant without your own website, I would love to set you up with your own domain and #indieweb site tom… (twitter.com/_/status/464208991598297090)
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tantek greetings #indiewebcamp from @MozSF!
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strand Ahoy, is there a homebrew website club tonight?
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strand Nevermind, just got in.
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tantek been reviewing past two weeks of stuff
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tantek here @MozSF
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tantek Andi: I have a design org called CascadeSF in the city
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tantek Andi: I have to create a new site and was just debating what framework to use to set it up
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tantek Darius: I got a complaint from my webhost that I was using too much CPU - and have no idea what is causing it. A few WordPress installs. Nothing obvious. Using WPCache.
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tantek Snarfed: Could just be load. Try WPSuperCache and WPTotalCache
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tantek Snarfed: you can configure them to write HTML files to disk and only change them when things change
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tantek Snarfed: I do that and it works fine
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tantek Darius: I just got the notice last night and haven't had time to look at it.
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tantek Darius: But thinking of switching anyway since they don't do SNI.
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tantek Snarfed: WPEngine is good, they do SNI
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tantek Andi: I have a full site with Cascade and it crashed - something went wrong with the WordPress
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tantek Andi: And I have backups of the db etc. But I haven't had time to restore it.
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tantek reviewing past two weeks
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tantek IndieWebCampNYC was great
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tantek IndieWeb closing keynote at Web Directions Code
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tantek LiveJournal shutting down inactive accounts with 15 days notice
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tantek welcome andicascadesf
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tantek back to LJ
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tantek subject: Purging of your LiveJournal account
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tantek I read the email.
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tantek Snarfed: should ping Archive Team
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@rtanglao .@dria YES and :-) the real long-term solution is to run your own photo hosting AND use the popular photo hosting services #indieweb #posse (twitter.com/_/status/464223066218713088)
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tantek Good news past two weeks
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tantek Great IndieWeb community representation at IIW
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tantek IndieWeb track at IIW
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tantek four consecutive sessions
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tantek video shared via talky.io
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tantek notes on Etherpad
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tantek best notes of any of the sessions
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tantek KevinMarks' tweets dominated IIW
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tantek Strand: have been working on software to post to my own site, and syndicate to Twitter
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tantek Strand: have got the basic microformats in on my posts
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kylewm is it http://strabd.com/ ?
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tantek kylewm: yes it is!
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tantek Snarfed: couple big new bridgy features
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andicascadesf Checkout this bicycle made of CSS3 http://www.gautamkrishnan.com/labs/cycle/
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tantek Snarfed: "I have a bridge to sell you"
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tantek Snarfed: Kyle launched a feature where you don't need permalinks in your POSSE copies for Bridgy to use them!
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tantek Snarfed: Instead it uses rel-syndication links from the original to the POSSE copy - a reverse discovery of sorts
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tantek Snarfed: eliminates the need to link back from the POSSE copy back to the original
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tantek Snarfed: which has sometimes either confused or annoyed folks on the POSSE destination
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tantek Snarfed: The other big thing, is Webmention support for Wordpress.com, Tumblr.com, and Blogger.com
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tantek Snarfed: You log in to Bridgy and OAuth with WordPress Tumblr or Blogger .com
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tantek Snarfed: then Bridgy watches for new posts on whichever blog host you OAuth'd in with
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tantek Snarfed: Right now it uses Superfeedr to get notified of new posts
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tantek Snarfed: On Tumblr in particular you need Disqus
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tantek Snarfed: When you sign-up on Bridgy, then you add the rel=webmention to your blog's template which points to Bridgy, you get a custom Bridgy webmention endpoint URL for your blog
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KartikPrabhu blaargh Disqus...
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tantek Snarfed: so when someone sends a webmention to your blog, it goes to the Bridgy webmention proxy, which then it uses the individual blog host API to post the comment as a native comment on the blog host (or as a Disqus comment on Tumblr in particular)
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tantek Snarfed: this is a way for any blogger using Wordpress.com, Blogger.com, or Tumblr.com to receive indieweb comments, likes, reposts, RSVPs from around the web.
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kylewm would it be hard to extend to handle disqus comments in general, not just on tumblr?
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KartikPrabhu Q: is this not as if "indieweb" is conforming to silos instead of silos changing for an indieweb?
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tantek KartikPrabhu: it's bringing more adoption of IndieWeb protocols & formats
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tantek Yoz: I work on government stuff
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tantek Yoz: US Gob websites look like they were made in the 1990s
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KartikPrabhu I understand that is it very useful though :) just something I've been thinking about
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KartikPrabhu snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 16 karma
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tantek Yoz: e.g. check out gov.uk
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andicascadesf I’m back.
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: less conforming and more shoving indieweb down the silos throats ;)
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KartikPrabhu my thought is "if all the silo comments/activities will end up on my site what is the incentive for my friends there to go indie?"
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tantek your proprietary snowflake APIs will be shrinkwrapped with indieweb protocol proxies
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tantek KartikPrabhu: your site has more than any one silo: most complete experience around a piece of content
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tantek = incentive for users to *read* stuff on the indieweb
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KartikPrabhu tantek: fair argument
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tantek which then readers to do the same themselves for themselves
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tantek KartikPrabhu: please add that to the FAQ!
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tantek because it is a good question!
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KartikPrabhu will do :)
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/FAQ
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tantek :D
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tantek Yoz: my personal site is yoz.com
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tantek Yoz: my twitter is @yoz
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tantek Yoz: I want to do more blogging
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tantek Yoz: I want to do more writing
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tantek Andi: The more that you write, the easier that it gets, it becomes less work
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tantek Yoz: Medium is interesting. Watching people who have blogs post on Medium.
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tantek Andi: more virality? broader audience?
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tantek Yoz: bunch of other things. nice usability touches. getting draft reviews.
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tantek Darius: line by line commenting
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks had a post that became popular once he POSSEd to Medium
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tantek Yoz: I haven't blogged in like 3 years, but I tweet
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tantek Andi: I think you should write anyway, even in a paper journal, longhand
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KartikPrabhu Yoz: blogging need not be about long articles IMO
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tantek Andi, Snarfed: you can write short notes
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tantek (KartikPrabhu right, people saying that here)
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tantek Yoz: Wordpress has a habit of not maturing in terms of security
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tantek Snarfed: not really, it's been improving
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tantek Darius: big updates: easier to do SSL, and auto-updates on WordPress blogs
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tantek Yoz: At the moment it is running on Dreamhost but I'm tempted to move it to WordPress.com
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tantek Yoz: I had such a pain moving from MovableType to WordPress and maintaining permalinks
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tantek Yoz: and so writing becomes this big task
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tantek Yoz: Not even yakshaving. It's like I want to write, I go back to it and it's been compromised.
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tantek Yoz: been using draft.in
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tantek and we've split up into separate conversations here in SF
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kylewm tantek: thanks for the notes!
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tantek.com edited /2014/Guest_List (+27) "/* Official Guest List */ sort" (view diff)
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gRegor` Aw, tantek is going to East? Traitor. ;)
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kartikprabhu.com edited /FAQ (+662) "question about conforming to silo, POSSE and backfeed" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: added question... and my interpretation of your answer^^
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tantek gRegor`: where are you going? ;)
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gRegor` West, once I confirm a few things
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gRegor` Portland > NYC
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KartikPrabhu should attempt to go to these things
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tantek KartikPrabhu: come to NYC!
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tantek it's going to rock
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tantek and would be great to hang out in person
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KartikPrabhu that would also cross off visiting NYC off my list... will investigate
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tantek !tell benwerd is there a screenshot of idno/known's "new post" UI? E.g. you could add to http://indiewebcamp.com/idno
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek closing up here in SF!
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tantek thanks everyone
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tantek.com edited /FAQ (+149) "/* What is a personal website */ multiple domains - just pick one" (view diff)
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@sorenp RT @kevinmarks: #iiw @Johannes_Ernst: crowd funding for Indie Box has started today: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/indie-box-let-s-bring-our-data-home #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/464238690269929475)
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GWG KartikPrabhu: You thinking of coming to NYC?
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KartikPrabhu GWG: thinking... have to work out logistics particulary as it will be my first time in NYC
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GWG KartikPrabhu: As a lifelong New Yorker, tell me if there is anything I can do to help.
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KartikPrabhu GWG: thanks! I will look up things and decide soon
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GWG KartikPrabhu: You live in Chicago, right?
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KartikPrabhu yup
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GWG You a ORD or an MDW sort of person?
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GWG Or, you want the real experience, an Amtrak kind of type?
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KartikPrabhu I am more of a cheap flights guy ;)
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KartikPrabhu I have flown half way across the earth so I am not afraid of airports :)
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GWG KartikPrabhu: Doable.
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GWG KartikPrabhu: Delta has a shuttle.
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KartikPrabhu GWG: thanks for the info... looking into it
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GWG Then there is Southwest
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GWG I'm not particularly fond of American and United, who are the big carriers in ORD.
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KartikPrabhu American is awful apparently
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I'm a JetBlue person
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GWG But I'm tall, and they have higher pitch
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KartikPrabhu cool. I'll defer flight investigations to the morning and work on some website stuff :)
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GWG KartikPrabhu: My net has been down since last night. I'm on cell. No websiting.
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GWG I'm too annoyed with my ISP.
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KartikPrabhu GWG: one can always read ;) http://www.tylerfinck.com/2014/05/antisocial-networking/
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gRegor` American has been fine in my experience. I've heard so many bad experiences with Delta
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gRegor` NYC and Portland are both on my list to visit, though I expect I will like Portland more. Plus my girlfriend will be living on that coast, albeit in WA... we'll figure something out.
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: I've recently become a fan of hipmunk.com's email notifications. Look up flight dates now, subscribe to the results, and they email you when the prices change up or down.
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GWG gRegor`: Come to Indiewebcamp
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KartikPrabhu he's planning to go to the West side...
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gRegor` GWG: That's what I'm saying. I am probably going to Portland, though. :)
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GWG Is East still beating West?
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: maybe we can do a midwest invasion ;)
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gRegor` Hehe
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gRegor` Javascript regex... this is dark magic.
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KartikPrabhu GWG: they might be now that tantek is lobbying hard for NYC :)
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I'd love to come back to Chicago.
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gRegor` I would like to meet tantek, that's the only downside to going West.
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GWG We can go get some Stuffed Pizza.
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KartikPrabhu GWG: I like NY style more
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gRegor` pizza++
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GWG You think he's driving it.
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Loqi pizza has 1 karma
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I can get that anytime
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gRegor` Get out, KartikPrabhu. Now.
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KartikPrabhu true!
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gRegor` ;)
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KartikPrabhu lol! :P well actually the Italian's make it the best! Take that America...
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GWG KartikPrabhu: If you come, I know a pizza place near the Times building in a converted church that is an interesting experience.
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gRegor` Pizza needs more karma
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KartikPrabhu pizza++
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Loqi pizza has 2 karma
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KartikPrabhu thinks having more content creators like Tyler Fink go indieweb would be the correct move at this time
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GWG Well, I was thinking about this.
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GWG How do I get others to be aware I have content indiewebstyle?
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KartikPrabhu POSSE+backfeed is a good approach IMO
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GWG Yes, but, what you are suggesting involves relying on silos
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KartikPrabhu agreed... it is a stop gap measure for the present. Until the indieweb readers are mature, we can leverage the silos to work for us ;)
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GWG Yes, that implies you already know about the site.
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GWG How do you learn about it?
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KartikPrabhu you mean in a completely indieweb?
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GWG Even in a hybrid model.
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KartikPrabhu how do you discover new websites now? through your friends sharing on silos right?
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GWG Not always. Sometimes referrals.
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GWG Maybe we need a 'Planet' Indieweb
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@kartik_prabhu @finck there might be a "best of both worlds" through the #indieweb. see: http://kartikprabhu.com/article/indieweb-love-blog (http://kartikprabhu.com/notes/fink-indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/464248911645794304)
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KartikPrabhu GWG: referrals through?
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KevinMarks Indienews could be planet indieweb, if we remember to ping it
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GWG Hmmm...
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KartikPrabhu feels bad referring his own article but... <shrugs>
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KartikPrabhu does someone know why Chrome ignore "orient=auto" on svgs ... the arrows in my svg diagrams are backwards sometimes in Chrome :(
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snarfed kylewm: re your disqus q, i think it's be straightforward to do for any blog, not just tumblr
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snarfed basically just a text form you'd type your domain into, which creates a new Source, then fetches the front page and extracts your disqus shortname (already done)
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kylewm funny indienews came up, i was wondering about it earlier this afternoon
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kylewm in the context of distributed hashtags
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kylewm the idea being that i'd include a tag on my site, and link it to a service like IndieNews that would aggregate tags from all over
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: I don't really don't understand the "discovery of indieweb posts" problem, how is it different from discovering posts on silos from friends...
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kylewm no, I don't understand it either
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: hmm ok so I'm not being completely confused
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kylewm i was just thinking it's strange that i autolink @username to twitter on my site, and conceivably would do the same thing for #hashtags, and that Loqi sends us tweets about #indieweb, but not indieweb posts tagged #indieweb
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Loqi grins profusely
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KartikPrabhu interesting!
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kylewm are you working on your site tonight?
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KartikPrabhu eh did some tweaking on responsive image loading at HWC-Chicago but right now winding down so I can actually sleep :P
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kylewm that would be a change!
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KartikPrabhu yeah :P My problem always is having too many thoughts/things to work on at midnight
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@equivalentideas Any people thinking about the new #Upcoming, #indieweb and POSSE? I'm jumping the gun big time. (twitter.com/_/status/464274976762109952)
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Phae Huh. myOpenId shut down in February.
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kodfabrik.se edited /User:Kodfabrik.se (+54) "Adding my name to my profile" (view diff)
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tpinto morning all
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tpinto just listened to this talk: http://www.thersa.org/events/audio-and-past-events/2014/Free-is-a-Lie
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tpinto don’t know if you guys are aware of it
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tpinto might be worth listening to
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tpinto highlights a couple of good points, unveils http://indiephone.eu/ and mentions a couple of other stuff named indie*
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tpinto wondering if is someone close to this movement
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tpinto (namely indieOS and indieCloud)
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voxpelli tpinto: Aral was one of the organizers of the UK IndieWebCamo last year: http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK
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tpinto oh cool
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tpinto I almost went last year but had just arrived London by then
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tpinto hopefully this year I won’t miss it
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@finck @kartik_prabhu fascinating! Never heard of #indieweb but that's definitely the right idea. (twitter.com/_/status/464378702873120768)
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 12 hours ago: and boom IndieWebCamp 2014 East passes West in number of RSVPs, 5 to 4. You gonna let that stand? Let's see if West can bring in the RSVPs before East pulls further ahead. ;)
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@Jim_Kern very interesting stuff in this post! .@NateSavery: 'indieweb' http://t.co/YCp368wC6a" (twitter.com/_/status/464389313003016192)
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@WmBerlin RT @NZN: #freedombox session and #indiebox demo at #iiw to reclaim control of #indieweb by #SovereignIndividuals ... the underlying shift i… (twitter.com/_/status/464394065321013248)
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cweiske "reclaim control of #indieweb"
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cweiske haha
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cweiske if you lost control of indieweb, you're in deep in problems
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tantek cweiske - lol
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tantek another silo-quits post: http://www.tylerfinck.com/2014/05/antisocial-networking/
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@kid_OYO RT @NZN: #freedombox session and #indiebox demo at #iiw to reclaim control of #indieweb by #SovereignIndividuals ... the underlying shift i… (twitter.com/_/status/464414504869052417)
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tantek.com edited /silo-quits (+1166) "Tyler Finck, FB IG G+, why, and note caveat for other silos" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /FAQ (+91) "/* Is the indieweb conforming to silos by implementing POSSE and backfeed? */ shorten question, expand answer a bit" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /FAQ (+149) "/* How to answer a question */ summarize each step" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] http://indieboxproject.org/blog/2014/05/great-iiw-session-summary-on-indie-box/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014-05-06-iiw-indiebox (pingback)
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tantek.com edited /2014-05-06-iiw-indiebox (+34) "link to intro indieweb session" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /User:Kylewm.com (+121) "/* personal site */" (view diff)
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Loqi caseorganic: tantek left you a message on 5/7 at 5:17pm: and boom IndieWebCamp 2014 East passes West in number of RSVPs, 5 to 4. You gonna let that stand? Let's see if West can bring in the RSVPs before East pulls further ahead. ;)
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@t Excited for http://t.co/eMPzBcH6wY's return! @waxpancake won't resell it. Let's figure out #indieweb community sites. (ttk.me t4Vy1) (twitter.com/_/status/464441313627496448)
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caseorganic !tell tantek it's great that east is larger than west! keep it going!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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tantek :)
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Loqi tantek: caseorganic left you a message 1 minute ago: it's great that east is larger than west! keep it going!
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-05-07-homebrew-website-club (+951) "/* Notes */ add summary of past two weeks' indieweb happenings" (view diff)
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tantek !tell benwerd,kevinmarks How did Homebrew Website Club meetup Mountain View go? Any notes or anything else to share?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@benwerd A device that lets you to cloud-enable your home or business - on your own terms. Get an Indie Box: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/indie-box-let-s-bring-our-data-home #iiw #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/464447069923463169)
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gRegor` Confirming time off with work for IWC West. cc tantek
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gregorlove.com edited /Template:Homebrew_Website_Club (+54) "+ 5/21 HWC" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Template:Homebrew_Website_Club (+0) "fix newlines" (view diff)
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caseorganic !tell tantek East coast NYTimes journalism - great for gen 2. I wonder what place will be popular for gen 3?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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gregorlove.com created /events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (+3233) "Initial event page" (view diff)
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@DASocialmedia The sustainable web (and why sustainability is a kind of independence) #indieweb #iiw http://dragplus.com/link/view/2188438?&utm_source=site&utm_medium=redirect&utm_campaign=&utm_term= #socialmedia (twitter.com/_/status/464451694701871104)
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gRegor` Don't mind tantek's taunts, caseorganic. I'm about to RSVP for IWC West :)
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gregorlove.com edited /2014/Guest_List (+290) "/* West */ BOOM." (view diff)
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gRegor` !tell tantek 5-5 East v West! :)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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Loqi [mention] http://kylewm.com/note/2014/05/08/2 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (webmention)
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gRegor` kylewm: Ooh, audience parameter. Do you have an example of that?
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gRegor` Or is it on the wiki?
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kylewm gRegor`, not yet, want to be the guinea pig? :)
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gRegor` Sure. Though I don't post notes on my site yet, if that's needed.
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gRegor` If it's just receiving a webmention though, sure.
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kylewm so the post is here http://kylewm.com/note/2014/05/08/3
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kylewm and it should give you an error 401 unless you are logged in on my site
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snarfed kylewm: awesome! i assume it's just a whitelist of domains?
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snarfed huh, logging in on your site seems to be hard coded to use kylewm.com, even if i enter snarfed.org in the domain box
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kylewm oh, dang!
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gregorlove.com created /2014/Sessions (+654) "Initial sessions page" (view diff)
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snarfed also, worth adding to http://indiewebcamp.com/private_posts eventually
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kylewm snarfed, thanks for catching that, would you try it again?
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snarfed yup, works now, thx
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snarfed i still get a 401 on the private page, so i'm probably not in the whitelist :P
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kylewm hehe, still needs work. i tried to add you
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kylewm did you log in with https://snarfed.org ?
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snarfed yeah
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snarfed it's all i've got! :P
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snarfed aha, works now
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snarfed awesome!
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kylewm yay!
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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snarfed definitely worth adding as another example implementation of that design
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snarfed btw if you're interested in private posts, i'd *love* to have more people thinking about an auth-less design
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snarfed ie that's usable for people without their own web sites, or without indieauth-ready ones
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kylewm will definitely add to the wiki. I continue my quest for half-assed implementations of p3k features
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snarfed lol
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kylewm auth-less, very interesting, have you written about that before?
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snarfed not at all, since i have no good solution
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snarfed just the problem :P
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snarfed one possibility would be to support straight fb or twitter (etc) login as well as indieauth
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snarfed another interesting design question: private posts can't really handle webmentions, right?
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kylewm the /indieweb-messaging page on the wiki talks all about the latter
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snarfed aha thanks
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gregorlove.com edited /2014 (-102) "/* to-do */" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /2014 (+99) "/* done */" (view diff)
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kylewm I'm glad you brought that up, would love a way to share private posts with people who aren't indieweb yet
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kylewm will be thinking about it
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gRegor` It worked, kylewm! Awesome
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kylewm thank you for testing it gRegor` !
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kylewm now expunge the logs so aaronpk doesn't see us talking about implementing silo logins
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gRegor` Haha
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gRegor` siloauth.com
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@gRegorLove @thursdayschild @joeld See also: http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/464469446267248640)
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gRegor` Sometimes I forget about Loqi pulling in tweets and am surprised when I see my own tweet, haha
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gregorlove.com edited /2014/Guest_List (+31) "/* West */" (view diff)
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Loqi tantek: caseorganic left you a message 1 hour, 31 minutes ago: East coast NYTimes journalism - great for gen 2. I wonder what place will be popular for gen 3?
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Loqi tantek: gRegor` left you a message 55 minutes ago: 5-5 East v West! :)
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Loqi KevinMarks: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 51 minutes ago: How did Homebrew Website Club meetup Mountain View go? Any notes or anything else to share?
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tantek caseorganic - good q! I think we will need the help of gen 2 folks to answer questions about gen 3 :)
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tantek gRegor`: right on! ok time to rally harder :)
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KevinMarks we didn't have a formal HWC in MV, but benwerd erin and I were chatting with Stef magdalinski and Randy Farmer
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@kevinmarks #iiw @DerekjAndersen: I don't trust anyone to centralise my identity, not google, not facebook. we're seeing more anonymous sites #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/464476423831707650)
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@kevinmarks #iiw @DerekjAndersen: When somebody has that much power over our identities, they will en dup using it for evil #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/464476588739133440)
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tantek ah, was wondering where the IIW indieweb presence went
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tantek what happened yesterday?
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tantek (at IIW)
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KevinMarks I got there late, but saw the demo circle, which included Grown
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KevinMarks did more chatting to people, fewer sessions
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KevinMarks today Ben+Erin have a "get your indieweb site here" stall set up
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kylewm.com edited /private_posts (+574) "/* Allow silo friends to see private posts */ address book" (view diff)
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@tongwynlaismeta Having your own domain and website gives you more control and ownership. http://indiewebcamp.com/ #FLcommunityjourno (twitter.com/_/status/464479049860272128)
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tantek kylewm interesting - I think tommorris was putting a bunch of thought into private posts - as he wants to do exactly that (with giving permissions to FB friends)
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tantek re: address book - the minimal viable address book should be just a list of URLs of people in storage. On top of that, cache their full name and photo from their h-card at their URL (or retrieved by snowflake API from their silo profile URL)
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tantek everything else should be retrieved dynamically from their personal site / profile URL
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tantek apply caching as needed
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tantek once you make your addressbook person-URL-centric, then all the permissions stuff becomes super obvious
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dunlaps.net edited /events/2014-05-07-homebrew-website-club (+157) "/* Added photo */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks "people in storage" -very matrix
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tantek because to give a person permission, you just give permission to anyone who authenticates with that URL!
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dariusdunlap added photo from lastnight: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-07-homebrew-website-club#Notes
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tantek KevinMarks: we don't store people, just pointers to them. :)
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tantek it's the silos that store people.
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KevinMarks keith teare is trying a similar thing to your comms urls with teare.com/keith
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tantek !tell chloeweil sign-up page for IndieWebCamp East June 28-29 at the NYTimes is up! RSVP: http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Guest_List#East
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek Kevinmarks - except that's just a redirect to a silo
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tantek which then uses a bunch of JS magic
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tantek in contrast to: 1) directly on your personal site, 2) simple HTML hyperlinks that anyone can code up or copy/paste and modify (e.g. from my recent Markup for Comms post)
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KevinMarks yeah, he has a chat silo
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tantek that chat thing is similar to talky.io
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tantek not similar to people-focused communications
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@DerekjAndersen RT @kevinmarks: #iiw @DerekjAndersen: When somebody has that much power over our identities, they will en dup using it for evil #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/464480784166842368)
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KevinMarks fair point. He was pitching it as url-spawned chat so could fit in with PFC (as he has an iOS app that receives alerts from it)
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tantek !tell aaronpk, what do you think of putting a "Join the #indiewebcamp channel to chat" link in bold at the bottom of the latest IRC log page?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek !tell aaronpk which obviously would link to http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=indiewebcamp&nick=indie-visitor
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek KevinMarks: the "receive alerts from it" part is interesting
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tantek perhaps ask him to open source that part?
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KevinMarks 'cos HTML5 notifications aren't quite ready
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tantek !tell aaronpk, the idea is that if someone is reading the logs for /irc/today and they read to the bottom and want to say something, all they have to do is click the link which then joins the IRC channel and lets them say something.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek ok that's enough aaronpk tells for now :)
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KevinMarks heh, one of the chaps I'm live tweeting is faving the tweets on his phone
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kylewm.com edited /private_posts (+727) "/* Allow silo friends to see private posts */ add IRC notes from tantek" (view diff)
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kylewm tantek: thanks for your thoughts on that ^ hope it’s ok to add them en masse to the wiki like that
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tantek kylewm definitely! appreciated!
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dariusdunlap kylewm - By the way, i tried your auth’d note link, and even after I signed in using “https://dunlaps.net”, it still gave the 401 error.
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kylewm dariusdunlap: thanks for trying it out! it’s shared via a really dumb whitelist for now, that just included Snarfed and Gregor for that post
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tantek whoa - looks like the new Twitter profiles now do live updating! I have @kevinmarks open in another window and it is live-updating with his tweets as he posts them!!!
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dariusdunlap No problem. Let me know if you need another test run. I was just catching up on the channel and so I tried it.
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tantek so now that's the next challenge for those who have some amount of real-time-ness working, e.g. aaronpk's realtime display of comments
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tantek realtime home page updates with your posts just showing up as you make them
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tantek @KevinMarks, I don't buy that Y Combinator counts as traction. Show me the data for that.
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KevinMarks he meant "is seen as traction, so will get follow-on funding"
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tantek Show me that something getting accepted for Y Combinator helps it succeed any more (as %) than not.
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tantek where succeed = still exists in 5 years
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tantek as opposed to build-to-flip
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tantek ah - it's seen as bubble-traction ok
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tantek transactional froth - not part of the sustainable web
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KevinMarks yes - this was part fo the critique of no more risk capital fro a 2 year project
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ben_thatmust hey all
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tantek greetings
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ben_thatmust how are you today?
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tantek good! What are you doing June 28-29 ben_thatmust ?
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ben_thatmust sadly i believe I may be busy that weekend. not sure.
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tantek seriously if you don't have https://twitter.com/KevinMarks open in another window, you're missing out. Just open it and watch the tweets show up in real time in the background.
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tantek welcome back mko!
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mko Thanks. My ZNC is down. Setting it back up now. :-)
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KevinMarks except the session just finished
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KevinMarks I should post notes
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Loqi definitely
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tantek 90+ in the channel again. Have we crested 100+ yet? aaronpk?
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Loqi chloeweil: tantek left you a message 41 minutes ago: sign-up page for IndieWebCamp East June 28-29 at the NYTimes is up! RSVP: http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Guest_List#East
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ben.thatmustbe.me created /OpenBlog (+1189) "Creating OpenBlog page" (view diff)
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tantek nice!
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /OpenBlog (+15) "/* Description */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmust lfinally started setting it up
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ben_thatmust since I'm home sick, figured I might as well
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tantek.com created /openblog (+22) "r" (view diff)
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tantek ben_thatmust: get well soon! but yes, in the meantime, crank on!@
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@benwerd Respect uses XDI as a transmission protocol. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XDI The #indieweb approach, as a comparison: http://indiewebify.me/ #iiw (twitter.com/_/status/464502782276292608)
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@benwerd The Respect Network is closed and has tiered membership fees. Would prefer web-style free & open protocols. #iiw #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/464503235739279360)
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tantek oh dear … stopped reacing at "OASIS …"
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tantek nice, benwerd is throwing down ;)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /projects (+431) "Adding OpenBlog to list of projects." (view diff)
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bnvk what is this https://www.respectnetwork.com thingy?
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bnvk any of you cats at #IIW seeing a demo of it?
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tantek bnvk - perhaps ask benwerd. doesn't sound good (from the sound of his tweets)
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bnvk yah, that's what I saw
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aaronpk "claim your cloud name"?
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tantek well if you're looking into it, go ahead and document a /RespectNetwork page on the wiki with benwerd's criticisms so we at least capture it
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 35 minutes ago: do you think of putting a "Join the #indiewebcamp channel to chat" link in bold at the bottom of the latest IRC log page?
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 34 minutes ago: which obviously would link to http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=indiewebcamp&nick=indie-visitor
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aaronpk good idea ^
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 33 minutes ago: idea is that if someone is reading the logs for /irc/today and they read to the bottom and want to say something, all they have to do is click the link which then joins the IRC channel and lets them say something.
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bnvk tantek: naw, I perused the website- seems very vapor right now, such fumes, much promise...
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tantek bnvk - yes - those are also good criticisms to document!
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bnvk hehe
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bnvk tantek: out of curiosity- what value do you see in documenting something that may or may not ever exist / be worth anything?
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tantek bnvk - hype deflation, and making it clear to folks in general to not bother with it
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bnvk gotcha
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tantek it also helps answer the question when people ask "What is X?"
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Loqi X is related to y
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tantek What is Y?
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tantek Loqi, Y is related to X
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Loqi is done
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tantek What is Y?
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Loqi Y is related to X
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tantek :D
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bnvk hehehe
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bnvk what is X and Y?
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tantek bnvk - also, we document vapor for the same reason we document anti-patterns
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@rakesh314 Ha! Love it when folks nudge the web forward. More so, when it comes from a well-meaning friend - @sandeepshetty: https://github.com/converspace/webmention/pull/32#issuecomment-42562733 (twitter.com/_/status/464506104769032193)
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bnvk yah, I can see how that's valuable
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bnvk too busy happily coding (after a day of hair pulling & wrestling) at the moment :)
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tantek excellent! building things!
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@benwerd Personal clouds, business clouds, nfp clouds. All good. Why do we need to pay to join the network? I don't on the web. #iiw #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/464506844627484674)
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Jeena so after a week of work I got my first version of photos working ^^ https://jeena.net/photos/1 right now it is only POSSEing to Twitter and Facebook but I still need to implement webmentions and POSSEing to Flickr. As far as I know it is not possible to POSSE to Instagram? (Which is quite sad)
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KartikPrabhu Jeena: nice work... as a photography nut myself, I like the EXIF at the bottom :)
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Jeena Hehe yeah, I need to look it over more, perhaps there is more interesting data there which I would like to show.
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tantek Jeena - correct. Though it is theoretically possible to fake a POSSE to Instagram. See /Instagram
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tantek and well done with getting photos working!!!!
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tantek love that you posted a blurry photo as the "still needs work, this is the first version" photo post. So good. :)
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Jeena the biggest problem was twitter POSSEing because the rails plugins don't let you post media
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Jeena hehe yeah, the photo was not in the focus (pun intended) for the first post but the whole system instead
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kylewm that update_with_media API call is a tricky one
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tantek the biggest problem with proprietary APIs is the ever increasing maintenance task of having to update various libraries/plugins to deal with them.
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cweiske when is an API not proprietary?
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Jeena cweiske when it is a open protocol
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cweiske when is a protocol open? when it's documented?
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cweiske then all apis that have client libs are open
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bnvk when there are open source libs that make it easy to interact with
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Jeena I was thinking when there is a RFC or something like that for it
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cweiske so the twitter api is open because there are open source libs talking it?
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bnvk nope
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bnvk the code powering the Twitter API is not open source
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cweiske but status.net implements the twitter api! it's open source
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cweiske so is the twitter api open source?
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bnvk no
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cweiske but there is an open server and many open clients
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Jeena I ended up installing a command line utility: https://github.com/twitter/twurl which works like curl+twitter_oauth and make a system call from my web app. It is bad but the only thing I was able to get to work
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message on 5/7 at 5:01pm: that is awesome!!! (setting up IIW folks in person). The IndieWebologist is IN. :D
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message on 5/7 at 5:17pm: and boom IndieWebCamp 2014 East passes West in number of RSVPs, 5 to 4. You gonna let that stand? Let's see if West can bring in the RSVPs before East pulls further ahead. ;)
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message on 5/7 at 7:50pm: is there a screenshot of idno/known's "new post" UI? E.g. you could add to http://indiewebcamp.com/idno
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 4 hours, 13 minutes ago: How did Homebrew Website Club meetup Mountain View go? Any notes or anything else to share?
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cweiske Jeena, openid and rss are not open by your definition because they are not rfc'd
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cweiske indieauth also not
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benwerd (legal precedent on APIs: see Oracle. You can't copyright them)
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cweiske so, back to the question: when is an api not proprietary?
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Jeena cweiske that is why I added "or something like that" to it ;)
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cweiske or rather: when is it proprietary?
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bnvk benwerd: what's the in person verdict on Respectnetwork?
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Jeena when only one company controlls the api/protocol development?
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benwerd I like their ambition. I hate that they're using overcomplicated standards, a fee-based membership models, and have apps that aren't based on actual user demand
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cweiske Jeena, that sounds better than the previous explanations
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cweiske can two companies develop a proprietary protocol?
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snarfed cweiske++ for asking these questions
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Loqi cweiske has 6 karma
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Jeena but obviously it is not open just because two companies (who work together) controll the development
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rascul http://searchcloudapplications.techtarget.com/definition/open-API
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benwerd (I'm at a VC panel, btw, and they're giving much of the same feedback that I am on Twitter.)
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bnvk interesting
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Jeena so there is no straight line there, it is kind of blurry (and that is ok in my opinion)
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snarfed benwerd: out of curiosity, did you hate/dislike app.net for the same reasons? not being snarky
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snarfed sincerely curious
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cweiske can one/tantek badmouth something that's hard to define/undefinable?
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benwerd LOTS of "security beyond passwords" startups, too
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rascul passwords are a horrible authentication mechanism
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rascul but better mechanisms can be hard to implement well
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benwerd snarfed: I was skeptical, but bought into app.net initially because I thought I was probably wrong. Did feel I preferred an open platform. Nonetheless, loved that it was happening, and supported with both time and money.
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benwerd (i.e., I was conflicted.)
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snarfed benwerd: understood. i asked because it fit the same three criteria you gave for respect network
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Jeena I liked app.net only for a week or something until I found Tent.
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benwerd nods
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snarfed benwerd: no matter. tell all the indieweb people at iiw hi for us!
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tantek cweiske - proprietary APIs are usuall 1-off (custom for the site), "owned"/controlled by a single company (at best a few - oligopoly), and have a nasty TOS attached to them.
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snarfed and congrats on (soft?) launching known!!!
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benwerd I also recognize that it's a bit crappy to sit in the backchannel and throw out criticism
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rascul what is this iiw i keep hearing about?
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snarfed eh it's humanity, we all do it
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benwerd I will certainly say hi
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benwerd rascul: Internet Identity Workshop
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tantek cweiske - if you're looking for the contrary, what is open? Google for "What is the Open Web?"
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Loqi open is not a four letter word
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benwerd which has been a net positive - I'll probably go again
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rascul ok
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cweiske tantek, is the twitter api proprietary although status.net implements it? no nasty TOS
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tantek cweiske, yes it is proprietary because 1) Twitter owns it, 2) nasty TOS
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cweiske what is "owning" for you?
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tantek and 3) status.net implements some subset of the Twitter API, rather than "implements it"
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kylewm Jeena: do you still use Tent.io?
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Jeena no, it died for me after a update where I wasn't able to use my own domain/server anymore
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tantek cweiske, in this case, like in many others, ownership is about control, especially the evolution thereof.
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Jeena mostly because the devs told me that this is not a priority for them, and now, 6 months later it still hasn't been fixed
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rascul there seem to be conflicting definitions of proprietary and open apis
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tantek cweiske, what did you mean by "can one/tantek badmouth something …"? trying to understand what appears to be a criticism.
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benwerd snarfed: ... and thank you!
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cweiske I just had no definition of proprietary api, and nobody seemed to give one
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benwerd (very soft)
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rascul some seem to definie a proprietary api as specific to one device, or one group of devices, while others seem to consider licensing/nda/related stuff
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rascul i would agree with tantek here though
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cweiske the API definition is open in most cases, the api implementation not
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rascul ooo there's an interesting way to put it, by separating the definition and implementation
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@portlandfilm RT @caseorganic: The Indieweb Revolution and other reasons why you should learn to code. #indieweb http://electricabacus.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/the-indieweb-revolution-and-other-reasons-you-should-learn-to-code/ (http://t.co/wyrZ… (twitter.com/_/status/464513589953327104)
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tantek.com created /proprietary (+946) "stub based some IRC conversation" (view diff)
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Jeena KartikPrabhu I'd like to add geo position to my NIKON photos but it seems quite complicated, one seems to have some extra dongle which tracks where you are at which time and then some program to combine it with the pictures
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tantek.com edited /API (+18) "see also proprietary" (view diff)
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cweiske Jeena, I usually have gps logging activated on my phone
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rascul http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchangeable_image_file_format#Geolocation
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cweiske and then map the gps log onto taken photos
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rascul "As of 2014 many cameras and most mobile phones have a built-in GPS receiver that stores the location information in the Exif header when a picture is taken."
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tantek.com edited /proprietary (+18) "link to specific page" (view diff)
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Jeena is it some extra app on your phone?
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cweiske http://cweiske.de/tagebuch/Geotagging%20Photos.htm
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cweiske yes
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tantek.com created /Twitter_API (+25) "r" (view diff)
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Jeena and how do you map it?
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KartikPrabhu Jeena: yeah geo is hard. new cameras are just building it in
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cweiske http://sourceforge.net/projects/gps2photo/
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Jeena hm ok thanks I will have a look at it
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cweiske the app on my n900 is called "gpsrecorder"
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tantek.com edited /Twitter-API (+127) "dfn, see also" (view diff)
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tantek cweiske - very well, here you go: http://indiewebcamp.com/proprietary and from previously: http://indiewebcamp.com/API and http://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter-API
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aaronpk algorithmically-generated articles http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-earthquakesa-earthquake-33-quake-strikes-near-cudahy-california-nhrpcb-story.html
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tantek cweiske - please document your experience with the status.net clone of the Twitter API here: http://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter-API#API_Clone_Implementations
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Jeena When I upload a photo from my phone it contains geo data and I show a nice openstreet-map under the picture
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@edsu RT @t: Excited for http://t.co/eMPzBcH6wY's return! @waxpancake won't resell it. Let's figure out #indieweb community sites. (ttk.me t4Vy1) (twitter.com/_/status/464515522315710464)
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Jeena ah there seems to be a couple of gps recorders for android
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Jeena I wish I used it before my 2 weeks vaccation in japan ^^
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aaronpk that's why I just record GPS all the time, so I can always geo-locate stuff later if it has a timestamp
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tantek rascul, re: "what is this iiw i keep hearing about?" as usual, check indiewebcamp.com/iiw :D
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tantek.com created /Tent (+21) "r" (view diff)
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rascul i always forget to look at indiewebcamp.com!
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rascul i have a brain the size of a peanut
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aaronpk i should make loqi return wiki links for "what is ___" if there's a page :)
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Loqi I agree
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barnabywalters reads logs
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snarfed barnabywalters: don't do it, it's a trap!
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barnabywalters interesting debate about “open/proprietary API” definition
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rascul i always feel dirty when i read irc logs
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barnabywalters snarfed: er, er, by “logs” I’m referring to… felled trees!
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barnabywalters (am I safe now)
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tantek aaronpk - that would be amazing
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snarfed barnabywalters: huh. now i'm really curious.
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rascul i like cutting down trees it's fun
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rascul and only sometimes do i get dirty from it
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barnabywalters on a more serious note: for me, proprietary/open is about consumer/producer relationship and empowerment balance
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rascul whoa that's a bunch of big words all in one line
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tantek barnabywalters: please add that to: http://indiewebcamp.com/proprietary
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tantek or incorporate somehow
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barnabywalters proprietary API = defined+implemented behind closed doors, very clear consumer/producer relationship, consumers completely disempowered to make changes or suggestions
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barnabywalters open API = basically the opposite of everything above
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rascul what about something inbetween?
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rascul defined openly, implemented in secret?
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barnabywalters rascul: by “defined” I don’t mean “documented”, I’m referring to the decision making processes
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tantek barnabywalters: not sure that's enough for "Open", see: http://tantek.com/2010/281/b1/what-is-the-open-web
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rascul ahh ok
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tantek there's a lot more to open than just "not closed"
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barnabywalters e.g. Twitter API is *documented* openly, but *created* completely behind closed doors
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tantek barnabywalters: hence owned & controlled per /proprietary
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barnabywalters tantek: cweiske asked for a concrete definition, that’s my best attempt
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rascul but twitter api has open access?
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tantek barnabywalters: he's long gone
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tantek he dropped a few questions, added a few follow-ups and then ignored requests to contribute what he knows to the wiki
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barnabywalters tantek: so I’m interested to know where exactly you find my definition lacking — skimming over your article (have read it in-depth in the past) I can’t see anything obvious which is missing
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tantek and I was serious, you (barnabywalters) should incorporate your thoughts on what is proprietary to http://indiewebcamp.com/proprietary
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barnabywalters other than explicitly saying that it’s published under a free as in beer + freedom license
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barnabywalters doing
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tantek and then I'd suggest something longer for "what is open" - like a blog post :)
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Loqi open is about consumer
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barnabywalters spot-on as always Loqi
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aaronpk oh hey that gives me an idea
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tantek aaronpk - yeah, Loqi's existing "x is y" responses are not that useful and only semi-funny.
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tantek would be better if they were from the wiki
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aaronpk i'd say he's currently at about 50% funny rate with that right now
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tantek hmmm
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tantek what is funny?
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barnabywalters lol
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tantek Loqi?
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aaronpk what is the appropriate markup for this sentence on this page: http://indiewebcamp.com/authorship "authorship is a claim about who the author(s) of a post are."
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barnabywalters wiki links > 50% funny
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aaronpk summary?
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aaronpk cause he could pull out the summary sentence of pages that way
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barnabywalters aaronpk: p-summary
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aaronpk is each page an h-entry then? cause right now there's no mf2 classes on the page
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barnabywalters that would be a really nice microformats demo
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tantek aaronpk - easier to just pull out <dfn> </dfn> until period "."
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barnabywalters if not then they should be
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tantek aaronpk, yes each page is an h-entry
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tantek and has a p-name
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tantek and dt-updated
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tantek and e-content
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barnabywalters and whatever else you give them, e.g. http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2FTaproot
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tantek u-url "Page" link in the top
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KartikPrabhu tantek: should Tyler Fink be told of IWC2014-East? ref: https://twitter.com/finck/status/464378702873120768
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@finck @kartik_prabhu fascinating! Never heard of #indieweb but that's definitely the right idea. (twitter.com/_/status/464378702873120768)
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KartikPrabhu he is Ithaca-based
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tantek.com edited /Tent.io (+377) "/* Criticism */ Dropped support for own domain" (view diff)
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sbw I'm exploring indieweb here at IIW, and I'm getting a strange response from the h-entry mark-up checker. Kevin Marks suggested I post the link: http://indiewebify.me/validate-h-entry/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sbw.org%2Fusecnames%2F
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tantek KartikPrabhu: yes! invite him! (and to this channel too!)
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tantek hey sbw!
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tantek good timing as one of the authors of indiewebifyme is here (barnabywalters )
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /proprietary (+933) "contrasted proprietary with open, clarified what owned/controlled actually means" (view diff)
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barnabywalters tantek: ^^^^ for your review
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I added Tyler's blog post to the http://indiewebcamp.com/silo-quits#Silo_quitters_2014 section
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barnabywalters greetings sbw!
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barnabywalters I’m having a look into it now
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sbw tx
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /proprietary (+53) (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /proprietary (-3) "cleaner heading" (view diff)
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@benwerd Notes are on the wall already (and on the web, of course). #indieweb #iiw https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/464522826620231680/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/464522826620231680)
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tantek barnabywalters: looks good!
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barnabywalters I think you’re right, this might be enough of a useful topic for a longer blog post
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tantek barnabywalters: feel free to copy / fork from http://tantek.com/2010/281/b1/what-is-the-open-web
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@benwerd Identity in the #indieweb universe. #iiw https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/464523657750904832/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/464523657750904832)
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tantek switches from the @kevinmarks live update channel to the @benwerd live update channel
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tantek just looked at respectnetwork.com
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tantek bnvk - the reason to document vapor like this is to counteract the high-gloss marketing fluff of one-page websites like that
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tantek and the whole culture of people getting excited about high-gloss marketing fluff rather than real things that are shipping and working on the web, on the very sites owned and used by their creators
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tantek at its core this is a cultural battle: creators vs marketers
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barnabywalters sbw: looks like the problem is spread across both of our code — your datetime isn’t valid ISO8601, and the code I wrote to check if a datetime was valid ISO 8601 was broken :)
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barnabywalters bnvk: can you deploy indiewebify.me please
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barnabywalters bnvk: and we really need to get me deploy access
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aaronpk set up a git remote so you can both push to it
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sbw tantek: sbw.org is still XHTML strict. What's the latest thinking on validation? In particular, I'm looking at the example of <time datetime=""> here: http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry
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sbw barnabywalters: Thanks. I followed the example at the link above.
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barnabywalters aaronpk: yeah but then I need ssh access to bnvk’s server, etc, etc etc
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aaronpk no, just git access
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tantek sbw XHTML strict has been superceded by HTML5. The <time> element alone is sufficient reason to upgrade.
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sbw tantek: That's what I figured.
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barnabywalters aaronpk: wait how does that work
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barnabywalters I’ve always used git on remote machines via an ssh connection
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barnabywalters how does git do authentication on it’s own?
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aaronpk i forget, i always do it with ssh too
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barnabywalters bnvk: the easiest thing is just to create an obfuscated endpoint which executes a git pull from github
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tantek.com created /XHTML (+103) "stub" (view diff)
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aaronpk ha yep i've done that before too :)
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barnabywalters aaronpk: ssh: so seamless that after initial setup it just disappears
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tantek.com created /xhtml (+19) "r" (view diff)
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barnabywalters you can even do remote-filesystem autocomplete
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barnabywalters aaronpk: hey, why overcomplicate :)
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barnabywalters complicated deployment is for people who are getting paid
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tantek.com edited /XHTML (+282) "XML, articles" (view diff)
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aaronpk haha
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barnabywalters same with frameworks
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tantek aaronpk, barnabywalters please add to http://indiewebcamp.com/deployment accordingly. I find deployment to still be a major problem / pain and would very much appreciate seeing your approaches documented.
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sbw barnabywalters: I changed it to ISO 8601. Shall I wait 'til you deploy to try again?
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barnabywalters sbw: it should work just fine now!
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aaronparecki.com edited /deployment (+92) "/* Git based deploy */" (view diff)
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sbw barnabywalters: Hmmm... Same result as before.
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barnabywalters hrm
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rascul don't need ssh access for git... depending on how things are setup
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barnabywalters sbw: if you have a look at the last piece of text before the error message, or the “published” property here: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sbw.org%2Fusecnames%2F
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barnabywalters you can see that the datetime is still being parsed as “June 5 '10”
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kylewm rascul: ssh is way easier to set up than the git protocol though
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rascul this is true
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rascul ssh setup is trivial :)
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sbw oh, I just changed the datetime attribute, not the text inside the element. I'll look up <time> in the spec.
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rascul gitolite is quite good though too
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barnabywalters sbw: you put the datetime attribute on a <span> element, not a <time> element :)
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sbw I thought I fixed that.
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aaronpk rascul: ssh setup for multi-user access with proper access control is not trivial
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barnabywalters not according to my view-source, but it might be some weird caching thing
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sbw no, it works now, thanks!
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barnabywalters ah yep I see it too
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barnabywalters yay! nice work
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Loqi giggles
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rascul aaronpk depends on the requirements and end goal how non trivial it can get
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rascul for multi user access to git repos though, gitolite is usually my answer
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rascul dokku can be good for painless deploys
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aaronpk rascul: you should document your flow on /deployment
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rascul i will ponder this
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rascul i don't really have a "flow" i don't think
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aaronpk whatever you use to deploy your site
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rascul i just... do stuff
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kylewm request for /deployment, it would be awesome to have info about how y'all version/deploy data too
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rascul i will make a note to do this /deployment stuff though
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aaronpk kylewm: my site is my data :)
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barnabywalters kylewm: embarrassingly, my site code and data are all in the same repo
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aaronpk another benefit of not having my content in a database
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kylewm aaronpk: not subrepositories or anything?
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rascul data is easy when it's flat files in a git repo :)
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barnabywalters the plan (which I am in fact progressing right now) is to slowly extract the bulk of the code out into separate packages
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aaronpk barnabywalters: same with me, i'm moving common code to separate repositories
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barnabywalters so that my site repo becomes data + dependency list + tiny bit of glue code making the two fit together
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aaronpk ++
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kylewm interesting! i have my data in a separate repository, but that is problematic too, rolling back one without rolling back the other could be dangerous
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barnabywalters right now, working on moving my full-stack indieauth client code out into a package
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rascul barnabywalters i've tried to do stuff like that, it always got messy for me
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aaronpk barnabywalters: whoa! do tell!
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barnabywalters as I actually need it in another project now
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tantek.com created /Respect_Network (+1716) "stub based on their home page and benwerd's tweets" (view diff)
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barnabywalters namely, micropub-enabled feedreader+search engine+spam prevention tool
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tantek.com created /respectnetwork (+28) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /respect_network (+28) "r" (view diff)
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barnabywalters fortunately it only needs one tiny bit of abstraction: a function mapping a token to the associated data, and vice versa
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barnabywalters because that might be implemeted as permanent storage or encryption
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aaronpk the other day i was thinking about making a micropub-enabled twitter client
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aaronpk and yes, specifically twitter, because I want to quickly favorite and reply to tweets at events
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aaronpk but first, I need to be able to publish "likes" on my site :)
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snarfed aaronpk: yup, +1 to posseing likes for fun and profit
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snarfed try bridgy publish?
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snarfed (shameless :P)
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aaronpk that works by me publishing an h-entry "like" on my own site then telling bridgy to go push it to the twitter api for me?
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snarfed btw for inspiration, here are the bookmarklets i used to auto-generate like/repost/etc mf2 when i have a page (or tweet or fb post) open in the browser: https://gist.github.com/snarfed/e2628154ddaffd1ce1a5
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tantek snarfed++ for bridgy publish for POSSEing likes :)
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Loqi snarfed has 17 karma
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snarfed aaronpk: yup. and assuming p3k sends webmentions for all links, you can "tell" bridgy with just a webmention
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snarfed details: https://www.brid.gy/about#publish
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aaronpk that's kind of an overloaded use of webmention, right?
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aaronpk using it as a control API?
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snarfed yes
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aaronpk interesting. nice side effect is that you can actually include an <a> link to bridgy and it happens automagically
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snarfed exactly
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aaronpk also whoa where did this joke come from
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aaronpk Two naked tags walk into a bar. The bartender exclaims, "Hey, you can't come in here without microformats, this is a classy joint!"
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snarfed um, i made it up
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snarfed be gentle :P
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aaronpk aahahahaha
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aaronpk that's awesome
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barnabywalters aaronpk: briansuda gave me one of the old microformats t-shirts, which says “microformats: we do it with class” on the back ;)
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aaronpk i remember those!
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barnabywalters snarfed++ for microformats jokes
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Loqi snarfed has 18 karma
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barnabywalters snarfed++ for bridgy
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aaronpk snarfed: you should post that joke on your site
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barnabywalters INTERNET POINTS
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snarfed lol. thanks all!
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snarfed btw, as inspiration, https://snarfed.org/responses is the likes, favorites, RTs, RSVPs, etc i've been posseing (all of them) for a while
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aaronpk right now brid.gy is the only search result for that joke
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aaronpk but now the irc logs will show up
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kylewm pile of cats!
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snarfed heh yeah. good eye kylewm. sadly idno/known strips img tags so that reply showed up empty on werd.io. ah well
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aaronpk !tell benwerd your old search URLs are 404! you should add a redirect rule for them http://werd.io/search/?q=%23indiewebcamp
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk who else has a separate page like snarfed's "responses" that lists out all likes and things?
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aaronpk benwerd does too: http://werd.io/content/all/
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kylewm i have http://kylewm.com/everything
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kylewm that isn't linked from anywhere
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/gRegorLove/464469446267248640/464533802422120448 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (webmention)
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snarfed oh man, kylewm++ for including private posts in /everything, but only if you're logged in and have access
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kylewm.com edited /deployment (+585) "/* IndieWeb Approaches */ added notes about fabric" (view diff)
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aaronpk oh nice
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kylewm ha thanks, is it surprising that private notes are there?
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KartikPrabhu why does a trailing slash behave diff. on the wiki ref: http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/ vs http://indiewebcamp.com/2014
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kylewm trailing-slash--
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Loqi trailing-slash has -1 karma
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aaronpk cause they're different URLs
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tantek KartikPrabhu: because they're different URLs :)
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aaronpk jinx
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rascul the heroku git push says it fails point 4, what point 4 is being referred to?
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rascul this i mean http://indiewebcamp.com/deployment#Heroku_git_push
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kylewm rascul, under goals after the blockquotes
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kylewm i wondered the same thing
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KartikPrabhu tantek: aaronpk: hmm... I feel most people don't think of trailing slashes as diff URLs
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KartikPrabhu but might just be me
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rascul kylewm ahh ok thanks somehow i missed that
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aaronpk for me, trailing slash implies a directory or list
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gRegor` I would vote for 2014/ being a redirect to 2014 (no slash)
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rascul the heroku note should be updated because of things like dokku and flynn
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barnabywalters from a usability POV, I consider them to be the same, but only one should be canonical, and the other redirect to it
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rascul maybe i will do this
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gRegor` Er, or perhaps reverse that.
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: fwiw, wikipedia behaves the same way http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_VIII/
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gRegor` Yeah, what barnaby said ^ :)
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kylewm although that is a general question i have about indieauth
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: wikipedia is clearly things / is part of the title which seems incorrect anyway
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KartikPrabhu s/things/thinks
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Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: kylewm: wikipedia is clearly thinks / is part of the title which seems incorrect anyway
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aaronpk kylewm: what's the question?
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kylewm aaronpk: what does it do with trailing slashes?
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: That's what IWC is doing too. Just how MW works, I guess.
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: yeah good point <shrugs>
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gRegor` Though I imagine there's a MW setting (buried somewhere, or course) to allow those or not.
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gRegor` I'm with you, though. I don't see a need to have separate 2014 pages.
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aaronpk well "http://aaronparecki.com" is not a full URL cause it doesn't have a path, so "http://aaronparecki.com/" is what ends up being used
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tantek but just like aaronparecki.com - it's auto expanded
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aaronpk but "example.com/contact" and "example.com/contact/" are treated as completely separate URLs
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gRegor` On my site, I redirect permanent links without a trailing slash to with the trailing slash. e.g. http://gregorlove.com/2014/02/1180
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barnabywalters gRegor`: likewise
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rascul "If a path of the context locator ends in slash, partial URIs are treated differently to the URI with the same path but without a trailing slash. The trailing slash indicates a void segment of the path. "
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rascul that's all i could find from w3c about trailing slash http://www.w3.org/Addressing/URL/4_3_Partial.html
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rascul not really sure what it means though ;)
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gRegor` Hehe
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barnabywalters heh
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barnabywalters I don’t think “void segment of the path” means very much to anyone
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rascul well it must have meant something to someone at sometime!
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barnabywalters admittedly “anyone” is a generalisation
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rascul http://www.w3.org/Addressing/URL/url-spec.txt
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rascul but i don't really feel like reading the url spec right now
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rascul eh that's probably not even current
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gRegor` I don't think either way is a matter of correct/incorrect by a spec. Just talking user experience.
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rascul "Expires 21 September 1994"
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rascul pretty sure a trailing slash is optional though
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@kartik_prabhu @finck you might be interested in the @indiewebcamp in NYC this June see: http://indiewebcamp.com/2014##East+Coast (http://kartikprabhu.com/notes/fink-indieweb2) (twitter.com/_/status/464537522098679808)
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rascul i'm trying to think of a case where a trailing slash in the uri is meaningful
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aaronpk stop thinking of it as a trailing slash and it makes more sense
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rascul think of it as what then?
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aaronpk it's just another character of the URL
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kylewm aaronpk: so "http://kylewm.com/" is my canonical indieauth URL even though it redirects to the no slash version?
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rascul hrm
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tantek rascul - which URL spec do you mean? http://tantek.com/2011/238/b1/many-ways-slice-url-name-pieces#ud
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aaronpk kylewm: browsers are just hiding the slash
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aaronpk kylewm: curl -I http://kylewm.com/ does not return a 301
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rascul tantek i dunno anymore!
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kbs http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2010/04/to-slash-or-not-to-slash.html - practical advice :)
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kylewm oh wow, thanks!
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kylewm ^ for explaining
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barnabywalters question: say you were using a package to bolt-on indieauth support to your site — would you be annoyed if it set remember-me cookies as well as handling login, providing current user details etc?
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rascul barnabywalters i would be annoyed if it wasn't configurable
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aaronpk barnabywalters: i would want it to work like omniauth does, all it does is handle login and return user info
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tantek wait, since when does IWC wiki support fragmentions?!? Cool!!!
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@gRegorLove @joeld @thursdayschild I did. I liked it and shared it in the #indiewebcamp IRC channel, though I think at a slower time. (twitter.com/_/status/464538154088017920)
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aaronpk tantek: since the day after fragmentions.js was written :)
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KartikPrabhu tantek :D i tested before tweeting that :)
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barnabywalters aaronpk: does omniauth add routes to your application?
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tantek barnabywalters: I think a remember me cookie would be quite useful and is in fact part of how Web Sign-in was designed to work seamlessly
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aaronpk barnabywalters: kind of, it assumes a route will exist, but you have to add it manually
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tantek so that in the typical case (user returning to sign-in), they didn't have to type anything in, just click sign-in
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aaronpk er wait no, it does add the callback routes itself
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gRegor` Article I'm referring to in that tweet: http://jdueck.net/article/a-web-of-small-properties
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barnabywalters tantek: sure, you need to have a remember-me cookie, but from a dev (library consumer) POV would you get annoyed if the library set the cookie for you?
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barnabywalters rather than just giving you information and you having to set it yourself
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tantek first pass from a dev POV the simpler (more it took care of for me) the better
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aaronpk i guess it depends on your target audience
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barnabywalters tantek: that’s my instinct — is to make it full-stack, mimimum configuration by default, but with the ability to turn stuff off if you want
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aaronpk someone who is adding logins to their site for the first time, it's more useful if it does everything
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aaronpk but someone who already has a login mechanism and is adding indieauth support would find that horribly annoying
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barnabywalters aaronpk: at the moment the target audience is me: Taproot and my reader, both of which only use indieauth for authentication
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barnabywalters so I think I’ll go down the “does everything” route for the moment
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barnabywalters especially as aaronpk’s indieauth client library is so easy to use
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barnabywalters if people want more complex integration they can build it themselves, perhaps taking inspiration/code from my implementation
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aaronpk seems reasonable!
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barnabywalters thanks for the feedback — really appreciate the quick, helpful responses :)
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tantek barnabywalters: I'm still struggling with updating the RelMeAuth PHP library so I may have to switch to yours :/
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/gRegorLove/464469446267248640/464538154088017920 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (webmention)
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KartikPrabhu could there me more info of this kind for NYC: http://indiewebcamp.com/2014#Get_Your_Flights_and_Hotel ?
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barnabywalters tantek: my library is quite tightly coupled to the HTTP serving library I use (yay for consistent, sane abstractions), but the code might be useful all the same
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rascul what does it mean on the wiki if i check that it's a minor edit? does that mean anything special?
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barnabywalters rascul: loqi still squarks about it here
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rascul oh i googled it, and minor edit doesn't appear to be what i want
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rascul.io edited /deployment (+78) "/* Heroku git push */ add note about dokku" (view diff)
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rascul look i did something!
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barnabywalters nicely done rascul — have you used dokku?
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rascul yes
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rascul it's nifty
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barnabywalters I’ve read a bit about docker, it looks promising + already well adopted for deploying stuff
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barnabywalters but a little intimidating
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rascul hrm
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rascul you can spin up a preconfigured dokku image easily on digitalocean
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rascul to give it a try i mean
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j12t Has anybody figured out how to run, say, 5 instances of Wordpress on 5 different virtual hosts via Docker?
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rascul docker or dokku?
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rascul tbh my knowledge here isn't vast
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rascul but it's easy to do with dokku
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j12t Last I looked that really seemed out of scope.
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aaronpk j12t: wordpress has pretty good multi-user support built in now
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j12t I know. But: that means you have to run the same accessories / skins / plugins everywhere
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j12t And I’m making a more general point about any app
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barnabywalters j12t: congratulations on launching the indiebox crowdfunding campaign btw!
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j12t Thank you. That was the easy part! The hard part is pushing it through …
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tantek j12t - yes, congrats!!!
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j12t Some press is paying attention. We’ll see ...
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j12t Anybody have any good contacts to people who should cover this?
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barnabywalters j12t: I’d be really interested to see designs for the unboxing flow — i.e. instructional materials guiding users through the process of setting up
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barnabywalters that’s a place where it’d be really easy to beat-out most current routers, which IME have terrible pedagogy
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rascul why do i have to be Rascul.io on the wiki? i have no capital letters!
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aaronpk it's an annoying mediawiki thing
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rascul ok
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j12t I have some stuff written down, but I don’t want to publish that yet because somebody will take it as a promise, and code has a way of changing the spec
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rascul i'm not much familiar with mediawiki because i tend to shun php things
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j12t BTW, there will be an Indie Box meetup at the Hacker Dojo in Mountain View on Monday night. Everybody invited of course.
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aaronpk i don't shun php but mediawiki can be kind of annoying
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j12t http://www.meetup.com/indiebox/events/178945702/
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aaronpk there isn't really a better alternative though
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rascul other wikis not as feature complete?
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aaronpk yeah
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barnabywalters RE press contacts for j12t — who was it who covered indiewebcamp/mailpile/trrst etc in wired? I can’t remember his name
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rascul makes sense though with mediawiki's popularity
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aaronpk klint finley
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aaronpk ?
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j12t I’ve been talking to him … Klint.
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barnabywalters that’s the on!
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barnabywalters oh cool
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aaronpk great
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j12t BTW, would love feedback from all of you both on substance of Indie Box description, and style for purposes of crowdfunding.
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/facebook/584261234/10152108968326235/10152108968326235_10152108976776235 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/why#Avoiding_problems (webmention)
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barnabywalters j12t: bnvk has the most experience in that field
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j12t Yep, and I have a separate chat open with him, except that he must be asleep ;-)
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barnabywalters j12t: it might be an idea to put a really big banner across http://indieboxproject.org/blog/ saying “WE’RE CROWDFUNDING”
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barnabywalters at the moment the link is a little buried
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j12t Good point. Will do!
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barnabywalters as far as the text goes, it’s very clear. one thing which is conspicuously absent is how setting up a domain for it will work
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rascul.io edited /IRC_People (+49) "add me (rascul)" (view diff)
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barnabywalters that’s another flow which, if well designed, could give a compelling advantage over other (typically crappy) domain registration+management UIs
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aaronpk i still think there's room to make a domain registration service that doesn't suck
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barnabywalters aaronpk: oh absolutely
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rascul aaronpk what would the requirements be for it not to suck?
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@leenau So, @delicious is being sold again. Sounds like a good reason to make sure I have a copy of my 10,000+ marks, just in case. #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/464546218140770305)
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rascul oh yeah i noticed something about delicious being sold on hackernews
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rascul http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/05/08/delicious-social-site-is-sold-by-youtube-founders
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aaronpk i'm thinking something with a signup as simple as twitter's but then you end up with a domain name
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kbs j12t: just curious - is it possible to buy just the indiebox hardware alone at this point from somewhere? Or is it a pretty custom spec that you're having built for you?
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aaronpk and progessively enhancing the experience so that you can do whatever you want with the domain but by default it does x
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rascul aaronpk maybe we need an .indie gtld
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aaronpk ha
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j12t kbs: the only “custom” thing is that they put two drives into the box for us, instead of one. Go to http://mini-box.com/
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rascul with indieweb guys being the registrar of course!
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kbs j12t: ah - nice. (and thank you for the pointer :)
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aaronpk j12t: you should get in touch with Intel and try to find a NUC box you can use
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j12t Well, I don’t want us to be in the hardware business.
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andicascadesf Hi KevinMarks! We are donating a few booths to local communities for our first UXNight in Mountain View on 4/29 and I was wondering if you + others were interested in representing Indie Web Camp.
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j12t aaronpk: Yep! I shall … first focus on crowdfunding though.
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barnabywalters aaronpk: yeah, like about.me but with an actual domain instead of a subdomain, and a really nice UI for doing domain adminney things
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andicascadesf p.s. Hello everyone
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barnabywalters greetings andicascadesf!
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aaronpk barnabywalters: yeah
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aaronpk greetings!
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KevinMarks Hi andi
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pauloppenheim backlog reading
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pauloppenheim trailing slash: it's from POSIX
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pauloppenheim j12t: have you used FreeNAS yet?
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rascul pauloppenheim i kinda thought that
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KevinMarks Sounds like fun - benwerd and Erinjo should come too
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andicascadesf It’s at Intuit on 4/29, would be a very good way to meet some more of the design community and spread the word about IWC
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andicascadesf http://uxnight9b.eventbrite.com
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tantek.com created /security (+476) "stub with breaches" (view diff)
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aaronpk hm 4/29 was a week ago
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andicascadesf LOL sorry
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andicascadesf 5/29
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Loqi !calc 5/29
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aaronpk oh, may 29
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andicascadesf haha sorry
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tantek.com created /Heartbleed (+588) "stub with sites affected so we can keep track for indieweb reasons" (view diff)
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KevinMarks Aaronpk I remember a buy domains by text tool built by Emma Persky
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KevinMarks So you could register domains you think of while out drinking
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pauloppenheim j12t: FreeNAS has an app store now, and it's backed with BSD Jails for privilege separation
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aaronpk haha
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rascul drunken domain registration?!
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andicascadesf KevinMarks what is your e-mail address so we can send you info on the booth, etc?
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j12t pauloppenheim: didn’t know about the app store, but when I last looked at it, it was a bit too “integrated” to make it as broad of a platform as I’d like Indie Box to be
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pauloppenheim j12t: also, mini-box are awesome, if they're who i think they are
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j12t some guys in fremont?
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barnabywalters KevinMarks: aaronpk: shouldn’t that be the other way round? a service which requires a brethalyzer test before registering a domain?
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barnabywalters s/brethalyzer/breathalyzer
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Loqi barnabywalters meant to say: KevinMarks: aaronpk: shouldn’t that be the other way round? a service which requires a breathalyzer test before registering a domain?
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aaronpk hehe
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j12t pauloppenheim: pointer to the app store?
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rascul barnabywalters i never would have rascul.io if i needed a breathalyzer to register a domain!
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rascul i probably woulda got a less expensive tld heh
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pauloppenheim j12t: it's in the freenas web console, lemme see if i can find an external link
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pauloppenheim it's small
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pauloppenheim j12t: indications of it: http://www.freenas.org/about/features.html#plugins
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pauloppenheim j12t: owncloud is an app
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j12t Oh, I see. Yeah, what I have mind for an app store is a bit of different beast ...
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j12t should probably write that up
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tantek wow a tale of two silos sold in 2005: Upcoming.org - now back in founder Andy's hands. Delicious, keeps being (re)sold like an unwanted hot potato.
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andicascadesf Tantek says that email is so 1990s
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andicascadesf hahaha
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j12t I’ve been doing shaarli instead of delicious for about 5 months now, and I’m a lot happier.
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tantek andicascadesf: you may be looking for: http://tantek.com/w/EmailEfail
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andicascadesf What happens when you have an assistant and she has to be copied on everything?
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andicascadesf Mainly to keep her in the loop
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andicascadesf In that case, wouldn’t e-mail be most efficient?
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snarfed grabs popcorn
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tantek andicascadesf: see links in EmailEfail, IM to assistant would be more efficient than email
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tantek lol snarfed
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andicascadesf hahaha
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andicascadesf KevinMarks, do you have an e-mail address? haha.
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KevinMarks My email is linked from kevinmarks.com
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andicascadesf making it difficult.
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tantek.com created /Delicious (+509) "stub with dfn, sales history, see also" (view diff)
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andicascadesf got it
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andicascadesf thanks!
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tantek.com created /delicious (+23) "r" (view diff)
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KevinMarks Use a wiki to cc assistant?
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andicascadesf possibly
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tantek.com edited /projects (-19) "/* Shaarli */ link to local delicious page" (view diff)
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@gRegorLove @joeld Have you seen implementations of webmention? e.g. http://gregorlove.com/2014/02/1180/ cc @bmetzler (twitter.com/_/status/464552227768922113)
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andicascadesf KevinMarks I’ll sync up with you in the next couple of days and will send an e-mail with details.
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andicascadesf Tantek, is the event on Wednesday, May 21st an IndieWebCamp event?
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gRegor` Between IRC and twitter, that post sure is getting a workout.
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tantek.com edited /2014-05-06-iiw-indiebox (+4) "/* IndieBox IIW Session */ linky" (view diff)
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tantek andicascadesf: http://indiewebcamp.com/events
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tantek gRegor`: where are you getting the template for the HWC events?
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tantek I've noticed a few that are missing the default link to IRC archives
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gRegor` I copied the initial version of the last event
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tantek oh darn - no way to edit that!
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gRegor` Which in turn I probably did before. Sorry. I could set up a template, though :)
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gRegor` Default link to the event date's logs?
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (+79) "/* Notes */ add irc link" (view diff)
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tantek ok so maybe for the next one you can copy the 2nd version instead of the initial version? ;)
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andicascadesf I’m going to sign out, but will chat with you guys later!
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gRegor` makes a mental note :)
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (+0) "/* URLs */ fix" (view diff)
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tantek heh - and that one
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@tremaynett How do you define data ownership? #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/464553429097263105)
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gRegor` I should wrap up the template I was already working on for /events
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Loqi yea
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gRegor` See: http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Gregorlove.com/sandbox
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gRegor` tantek: I'm thinking for events that span multiple dates, still only showing the first date in the date bubble. Think that's ok? Full dates will always display under the event name
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tantek.com edited /Heartbleed (+15) "security" (view diff)
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tantek date bubble?
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gRegor` Sorry, see the sandbox link ^
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gRegor` This is for individual events on /events
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tantek oh need
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tantek neat
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tantek maybe have two templates? one for one day and one for multiday?
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tantek and then shrink the day font size a bit to allow for e.g. 28-29 ?
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gRegor` Sure, but I haven't come up with a multi-day one that I think looks good. I feel like the second example there takes up too much space.
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gRegor` I'm also thinking of edge cases where the event spans two months
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gRegor` or even two years
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gRegor` indienewyears
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tantek gRegor`: you can cross those template bridges when we get to real world examples thereof
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tantek until then, worry not, solve just today's use-cases
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gRegor` Mmk
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gRegor` Who, me? Overthink?
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gRegor` </software engineer>
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tantek indieweb folks, I started the http://indiewebcamp.com/Heartbleed page just to keep track of various services and software that anyone in the community may have been using that was vulnerable to Heartbleed but has been patched since - please add to it
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tantek in particular add:
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tantek any services that were vulnerable but which have been patched AND you've already changed your pw on