#indiewebcamp 2014-05-26

2014-05-26 UTC
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GWG Maybe I should review it for you
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GWG barnabywalters: I now have webactions
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GWG Not sure what I should do with them
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barnabywalters GWG: for them to be useful, your posting interface needs to be able to pre-fill fields using values from URL parameters
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barnabywalters web action buttons are basically links which go to a URL you define, replacing a placeholder ({url}) with the URL of the content you’re acting upon
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GWG barnabywalters: I meant as a site owner, not a site user
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GWG I have them on my test site. Close to merging my test work with my live wor
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barnabywalters GWG: ah, okay — well, what’s your goal?
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barnabywalters to add <action> markup and test it?
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GWG barnabywalters: I gave it a lot of thought, but I wanted to replace the comment section with indieweb type options, but still offer options for non-indieweb users.
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GWG As I feel I'll have plenty more of them than indieweb types.
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barnabywalters GWG: when you say “users”, are you still talking about site owners, i.e. users of your theme?
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GWG Not sure if you saw earlier when I was getting annoyed that only Twitter offers a way to send them data without loading scripts and usng buttons.
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GWG barnabywalters: Users as in Visitors. Owners as in Me in this case, or other people using the theme/plugins I'm developing
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barnabywalters GWG: yeah, other silo action button markup is disgusting. trust me, I parse it in the web action toolbelt :)
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barnabywalters GWG: okay, that makes sense
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barnabywalters well, if you have backfeed working then the path of least friction is likely to be “comment on this post on your own site, or reply on Twitter or Facebook” (etc)
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barnabywalters and providing a webmentioning URL field like adactio and aaronpk do
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Loqi tantek: KartikPrabhu left you a message on 5/24 at 9:22pm: West is leading 8-7 again... something must be done #gamification
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barnabywalters (which I still need to implement)
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GWG barnabywalters: Did you see my mockup?
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barnabywalters GWG: nope — link?
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GWG http://tiny.n9n.us/2014/04/25/video-embed-test/
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GWG Scroll to the bottom
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GWG I haven't merged this to live yet
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aaronpk speaking of which... we should really update this page so "Protocol Summary" is not at the top http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention
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barnabywalters GWG: okay, two recommendations
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barnabywalters (actually three)
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barnabywalters firstly, consider putting the form and copy at the top
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tantek aaronpk - hey the page had to start somewhere ;)
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barnabywalters so it doesn’t get buried
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tantek especially since the spec itself was way to tl;dr ;)
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aaronpk indeed
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tantek s/to/too
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Loqi tantek meant to say: especially since the spec itself was way too tl;dr ;)
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aaronpk i'm just thinking now that people are linking to it on their websites next to the webmention form
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tantek oh they are?
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GWG barnabywalters: Top of what?
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aaronpk or like in the footer of kylewm's posts http://kylewm.com/webmention
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barnabywalters GWG: top of the list of comments
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GWG Okay
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barnabywalters GWG: also the copy is framed very negatively, focusing on what the site doesn’t do
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GWG Good point.
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barnabywalters I like Jeremy’s CTA — short, positive and to the point
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GWG I may have been reading KartikPrabhu's No Comment thing just before writing it.
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GWG Positive is always better than negative
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GWG That's 2
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GWG What's 3?
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tantek KartikPrabhu: recruit some more Chicagoans for IndieWebCamp East!
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barnabywalters “notify me” text on the button — it’s a different voice (active vs passive) to the copy
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barnabywalters I was a little confused
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barnabywalters since usually when filling out forms, “me” refers to the form-filler-outer
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barnabywalters not sure what the optimal text would be though
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tantek goes back to making a salad for a BBQ since he has no idea what the discussion is about!
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barnabywalters tantek: sounds tasty
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barnabywalters food > web stuff
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barnabywalters but the discussion is about language framing on webmention comment copy and manual webmention sending forms
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GWG barnabywalters: The original text in pfefferle's version was Ping Me.
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GWG tantek: Trying to write generic copy that laypeople can understand.
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GWG Soliciting feedback
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barnabywalters goodnight all
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Loqi sweet dreams
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GWG tantek: What is the story behind the eviltantek accoun?
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bnvk oooooooh, don't speak of eviltantek in these parts
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bnvk you may summon is spirit and wraith
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bnvk the demon silo lords may swoop up another promising startup to punish us
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GWG bnvk: I heard Springpad is shutting down
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bnvk dah, seee....
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GWG Did you like them/
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GWG So, bnvk, in Iceland I see?
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bnvk yah
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GWG I haven't, until here, met many people who live in Iceland.
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bnvk just barnabywalters and myself, right?
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GWG bnvk: Yes
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GWG bnvk: I have met a lot of people from Europe, Australia...not much from Asia...
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GWG I was thinking the Icelandic gap was interesting
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bnvk hehe, well, it's a rather small country 320,000 in total
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aaronpk top nav bars have always been my go-to nav since bootstrap, but i'm getting really tired of them. i need another default
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bnvk hehe
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GWG aaronpk: Like what?
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GWG bnvk: I hear it is scenic.
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bnvk GWG: but it's an interesting country and definitely worth visiting sometime
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aaronpk i don't know, that's the problem
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GWG bnvk: Is it strange I know the name of the airport?
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GWG aaronpk: Hamburger?
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bnvk yes, that is strange
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bnvk aaronpk: floating collapsible sidebar
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aaronpk blech
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bnvk ?
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aaronpk something simpler
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bnvk well, i'm thinking with a symbols / icons
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bnvk narrow, like an OS Dock
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GWG Interesting
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aaronpk actually it's not bad just moving it to the bottom
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aaronpk and dropping the dark "nav bar" look
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aaronpk you'll see in a sec
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GWG I'd like to
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GWG I was agonizing over that last month
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GWG You are sick of Bootstrap. I just started using it last month
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aaronpk i'm not sick of bootstrap, i'm just sick of the header bar
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aaronpk the rest is useful
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aaronpk cause I hate styling form elements all day long and theirs are good
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GWG aaronpk: I styled something using Bootstrap, then I had to restyle it without it. Certainly harder
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: I blame you for this whole quill thing
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aaronpk :P
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aaronpk this all started on friday... http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-05-23#t1400910892
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GWG is playing musical chairs with his content
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GWG Can you have an empty webaction?
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: I'll gladly take blame for starting something good :P
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GWG I've decided to go simpler
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GWG KartikPrabhu: Can I pick your brain for a minute? I've been working on this all weekend.
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KartikPrabhu sure
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GWG http://tiny.n9n.us/2014/04/25/video-embed-test/
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GWG I've decided to go simple
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KartikPrabhu simple in what respects?
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GWG Click the icon, go to silo, do stuff there
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GWG I tried to get it more automated.
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GWG I'm tabling that
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GWG The phrase "Like or Comment via:" I'm not sure about
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KartikPrabhu I like it. Let the silos do all their stuff and you can just link to it
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GWG I have some variants.
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KartikPrabhu how are they diff?
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GWG I have webactions at the bottom.
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GWG But they are defaulting to Twitter, the only silo that supports intent urls.
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KartikPrabhu that might confuse readers
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KartikPrabhu as in "how is this button different from the other links?" or "where are such links for my favourite silo?"
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GWG Too many choices, as usual.
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: I am now reasonably happy with the way this turned out
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aaronpk https://quill.p3k.io/
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aaronpk i got rid of the stupid top nav bar
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kylewm aaronpk: wow, Quill is really classy looking! and I think it will be super helpful to people setting up micropub
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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thRett new to iwc...love the principles so far
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@jalonsoa Interesante experimento para enlazar a una parte arbitraria de una página web http://indiewebcamp.com/fragmention @Kevinmarks #programacionweb (twitter.com/_/status/470873000019898369)
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@dotpeople #library #archive #indieweb The Long Web http://adactio.com/articles/1522?utm_content=buffereda1d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer (twitter.com/_/status/470886594338361344)
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Loqi [@kevinmarks] “We have a broad consensus on the need to decentralize the web
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Loqi the question is how to do it.” @baconmeteor #indieweb http://idlewords.com/bt14.htm (http://twtr.io/miaaYeysJ9)
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GWG Happy Memorial Day to those who celebrate it.
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@deanna @janl @kevinmarks OK, you're both #indieweb peeps and wicked smart. Talk amongst y'selves :-) (twitter.com/_/status/470927817962954752)
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@markhdavis #IndieWeb – Back to the Open and Democratized Web | Feeling civic minded on #memorialday http://blinkassociates.com/blog/indie-web-back-to-the-open-and-democratized-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/470927837491634177)
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@markhdavis #IndieWeb – Back to the Open and Democratized Web | Feeling civic minded on #memorialday http://blinkassociates.com/blog/indie-web-back-to-the-open-and-democratized-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/470927875567546368)
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Loqi adactio: tantek left you a message on 5/23 at 10:01am: wherefore art thou RSVPs? http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/UK/Guest_List#Creators ;)
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kylewm !tell thRett belated welcome :)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG kylewm: Happy Memorial Day
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kylewm GWG: to you as well
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aaronpk kylewm: thanks!
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aaronpk "classy" is exactly what I was going for :)
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GWG aaronpk: This is the Quill thing
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aaronpk yeah
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barnabywalters aaronpk: quill is SHINY — nice work!
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barnabywalters aaronpk: btw individual files can be included in the composer autoloader, keeping all the dependency path information in one place e.g. https://github.com/indieweb/php-original-post-discovery/blob/master/composer.json#L21
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GWG aaronpk: I'll have to take a look
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aaronpk barnabywalters: where do I need to do that?
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barnabywalters aaronpk: I’m looking at https://github.com/aaronpk/Quill/blob/master/public/index.php#L4
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aaronpk oh cool
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aaronpk updated
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aaronpk also added a favicon :)
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@Burgos Interessante esse site que mapeia os serviços/sites que estão desaparecendo: http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/470952553250050048)
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aaronpk now my notes credit the app that was used to create them: http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/05/24/2/indieweb-micropub
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@Fabio_Negro RT @Burgos: Interessante esse site que mapeia os serviços/sites que estão desaparecendo: http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/470955260635545601)
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snarfed1 looks good aaronpk
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snarfed1 btw the new bridgy markup is up: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https://www.brid.gy/repost/twitter/t/459772054884335616/461381322632867840
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snarfed1 (note that the dan gillmor link is only in the content)
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aaronpk oh awesome!
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aaronpk u-mention?
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snarfed1 yeah. made it up.
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aaronpk it'll have to be on the <a> tag for it to work
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aaronpk the u tells the parsers to look at the href of the element, which there is none on the <p> tag
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snarfed1 ah true
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snarfed1 fortunately it's meaningless - every link is a mention - so meh
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aaronpk haha
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Loqi hehe
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aaronpk well cool! that's awesome
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snarfed1 thanks!
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@edulacerda RT @Burgos: Interessante esse site que mapeia os serviços/sites que estão desaparecendo: http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/470960374289039360)
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garietyxxx aaronpk: I'm curious about IndieMark's requirement that a site be served in static HTML. This excludes the rendering of views via JavaScript, correct?
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aaronpk yes
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garietyxxx aaronpk: What is the reasoning behind this? My site is rentered entirelly client side for the sake of speed, can I not be included by IndieMark somehow?
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aaronpk well you could enhance a page with javascript as long as there is HTML underneath
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aaronpk for speed??
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GWG snarfed1: There can only be one snarfed.
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aaronpk i seriously doubt you can beat the speed of serving straight up html
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rascul where does it say static for indiemark? i don't see it
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snarfed1 GWG: i wish irc agreed :P
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garietyxxx aaronpk: yes, but rendering client-side only will always beat rendering on both sides
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aaronpk but anyway, the point is you'll be missing out on all the cross-site communication going on, because HTTP clients will get back an empty page
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snarfed1 rascul: probably http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieMark#level-1-search
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barnabywalters greeting garietyxxx! welcome to iceland :)
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garietyxxx aaronpk: which clients are these? they cannot execute js?
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rascul ahh i see now the reference
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snarfed1 garietyxxx: servers! ie basically anything that's not a browser
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barnabywalters garietyxxx: forcing consumers of data to run javascript is a VAST increase in the barrier of entry to consuming data on the web
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aaronpk garietyxxx: yeah good luck convincing anyone here running a server to run your JS :)
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rascul no javascript in links!
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aaronpk here's a quick test: http://gariety.xxx/journal/dating-with-graph-search parses as http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgariety.xxx%2Fjournal%2Fdating-with-graph-search
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aaronpk it's completely empty because your server didn't return any content in the HTML
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rascul you can hook up some redis to nginx serving static html it's super duper fast
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rascul instead of just super fast without redis
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snarfed1 timely re servers running js: http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2014/05/understanding-web-pages-better.html
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garietyxxx rascul: I'm rendering via react
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aaronpk yeah google is *just starting* to run JS on web pages now
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rascul garietyxxx i don't know of this react
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barnabywalters garietyxxx: btw, I’m seeing some strange encoding errors on http://gariety.xxx/journal/dating-with-graph-search
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barnabywalters  and â€Â¦
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garietyxxx barnabywalters: screenshot?
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garietyxxx oh I see
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barnabywalters garietyxxx: give me a sec
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garietyxxx ill fix
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barnabywalters http://waterpigs.co.uk/img/screen-shot-2014-05-26-at-161942.png
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aaronpk also what's with the meta and script tag before the <!DOCTYPE ?
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garietyxxx i admit it is shabby at the moment
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garietyxxx aaronpk: I'm developing a framework and trying to make it as speedy as possible, W3C compliant is last step
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barnabywalters garietyxxx: I seem to remember someone running a service which ran javascript-only sites, cached their HTML and then offered it as a proxy, serving the javascript version to real browsers and the cached HTML to other user agents
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aaronpk as long as microformat parsers can deal with it it doesn't matter if there's extra stuff before the doctype
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garietyxxx barnabywalters: I can do it myself in a few short moments, it's a matter of how long do I want to cache the static stuff for
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barnabywalters garietyxxx: can you regenerate the cache when changes are made to the content?
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barnabywalters that would be optimal
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garietyxxx aaronpk: okay, I agree it should serve HTML, I just need to find out how to most quickly insert the views between the <body></body> tags.
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aaronpk cool
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garietyxxx aaronpk: the script is before the doctype because the cotype is in the layout and that script and meta are generated on each load.
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garietyxxx barnabywalters: yeah that's what I'll end up doing I think.
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barnabywalters garietyxxx: you might be able to make serving the content as HTML cut out the need for extra requests, too — it looks like you’re making at least one extra request per page to fetch content?
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: quill looks quite polished! nice!
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GWG barnabywalters: I tried some of your suggestions
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GWG barnabywalters: Still having trouble with it
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barnabywalters GWG: with what specifically? the language?
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GWG Yes. And placement
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GWG I tried it a few different ways
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GWG http://tiny.n9n.us/2014/04/25/video-embed-test/
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GWG barnabywalters: I think I fixed the tone
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barnabywalters GWG: yeah, the language is much more positive and concise now
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GWG barnabywalters: But does... Respond via and the syndication links seem clear?
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GWG I found if I put the form up top, people misunderstood
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barnabywalters another interesting take is how barryfrost handles this: http://barryfrost.com/posts/101 and http://barryfrost.com/how-to-comment
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barnabywalters much more techie but also very clear and helpful
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barnabywalters GWG: that’s interesting, what did you observe?
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GWG I showed it to a few random people
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GWG Many thought they needed to use the webmention form to comment on Twitter, for example
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barnabywalters GWG: interesting
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barnabywalters so it needs to be clearer that people can comment via silos OR on their own site
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barnabywalters cognition used to have a really nice UI for this, but they’re using disqus now http://cognition.happycog.com/article/hover-crafting
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barnabywalters I might have a screenshot of the old one
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GWG barnabywalters: Yes. That is my problem
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GWG barnabywalters: I want to create something clear and then it will propagate to all pages, and...since I'm releasing the code, to other sites possible.
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GWG I have the action/Twitter intent buttons too...but they also confuse the issue.
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: thanks! I spent wayyyyy more time on this than expected, but i'm happy with it
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barnabywalters GWG: how about something like http://waterpigs.co.uk/img/comment-response-mockup.png
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aaronpk started as "I bet I could copy ownyourgram and make it post text notes" which I did... in 1.5 hrs... then spent the rest of the weekend on it
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barnabywalters (ignore the nasty background)
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KartikPrabhu :P
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barnabywalters it should all be the same colour
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GWG barnabywalters: Let me give that a try.
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barnabywalters GWG: I need to revamp the footer of my notes+articles too, this is really helpful
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GWG I don't even have an Instagram account.
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GWG I had to use one of aaronpk's posts as a placeholder just to test it
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GWG And if snarfed starts supporting flickr....I'm going to have to add that
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snarfed i'm ready to merge the pull request! :P
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GWG snarfed: I'll go find the icon for flickr
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barnabywalters GWG: exactly how webactions fit into this is another issue entirely
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snarfed GWG: heh, i should rephrase: after someone implements it and sends a pull request, i'm ready to merge it
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GWG snarfed: It's an icon and a post meta box. I'll live
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GWG snarfed: Any other icons I should add in while I'm at it?
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GWG barnabywalters: One problem at a time
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snarfed GWG: the only one people have made any noise about is app.net
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kylewm barnabywalters: aaronpk: do you guys look up the name of a location (e.g., "Portland, OR") when creating the post initially? or does it happen later?
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barnabywalters kylewm: I reverse geocode just after posting, at the same time as POSSE and webmention sending an reply context fetching
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aaronpk mine actually happens before
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barnabywalters it’s in the same category of “stuff which improves the display of the post, but isn’t essential”
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kylewm barnabywalters: that makes sense to me, do you store that information in the post itself?
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barnabywalters I do reverse-geocode location to help people get the right place, but I thinks that data is refetched for some reason
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barnabywalters kylewm: yep, it’s part of the post
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aaronpk my phone is always tracking location, and it actually updates a location.json file on my server constantly, which includes the reverse geocode info. so any time I want to include location with a post, I can just get the data from that file cause it's already there.
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barnabywalters if I was implementing full-on checkins then it would be part of the venue
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barnabywalters aaronpk: that is so cool
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aaronpk it's pretty crazy :)
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kylewm aaronpk: whoa i didn't know that. ha, that's awesome
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barnabywalters tries aaronparecki.com/location.json
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barnabywalters aw
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aaronpk oh good i'm glad that didn't work :)
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aaronpk and then yeah each post gets the lat/lng/place written into the file https://github.com/aaronpk/p3k/issues/1#issuecomment-29836869
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barnabywalters kylewm: example post of mine with location information: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwaterpigs.co.uk%2Fnotes%2F4UxLmr%2F
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barnabywalters and notes on how to derive mf2 location values from nominatim/OSM tags: http://waterpigs.co.uk/articles/nominatim-semantics/
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aaronpk oh yeah good stuff lol
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kylewm barnabywalters: oooh, thanks! more than i could have hoped for
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barnabywalters aaronpk: ???
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aaronpk i did something similar with simplegeo long ago
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aaronpk https://github.com/geoloqi/php-simplegeo/commit/64b9b3e061b02df23f3285c2673cb42dada4caed#diff-3c4310ad1b53fe7bee128005d848ee41R138
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aaronpk trying to normalize the fields from simplegeo into h-adr fields
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barnabywalters kylewm: actually I posted my (PHP) code to do exactly this, if that’s any more help: https://gist.github.com/barnabywalters/8318401
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barnabywalters aaronpk: one day I’ll do something before you did ;)
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aaronpk :)
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aaronpk you wrote the first micropub client that posts text notes :)
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barnabywalters woot
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Loqi yay!
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barnabywalters wonders if that code is worth packaging up and putting on composer
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aaronpk yes please do :)
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aaronpk I would probably use it
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barnabywalters aaronpk: that’s my project for the evening then
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kylewm +1
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kylewm I would use it if I could :)
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kylewm btw, Indie Tech speaker lineup is pretty impressive! i recognize adactio, bnvk, tommorris, and rms(!)
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barnabywalters yeah, the indie summit has a pretty awesome lineup
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barnabywalters hope it goes well, bnvk tommorris adactio!
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aaronpk yeah!
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barnabywalters sorry I’ll be missing it :( I’ll be in europe, but the wrong part
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tommorris Oh that is up now? Awesome
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Loqi tommorris: tantek left you a message 3 days ago: wherefore art thou RSVPs? http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/UK/Guest_List#Creators ;)
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tommorris Plugs phone in with moments before battery runs out.
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GWG barnabywalters: I think I have it
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barnabywalters GWG: looking good!
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GWG I added one more thing
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GWG I'm not sure of the copy
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GWG Under the respond...
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GWG "Click through and comment/like on one of the above sites"
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barnabywalters GWG: do you think it’s necessary?
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GWG barnabywalters: You wouldn't believe what I found when I showed people this page.
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barnabywalters btw, it might help to use whitespace to reinforce a separation between the form and the comments, and to group the two ways of responding e.g. http://waterpigs.co.uk/img/screen-shot-2014-05-02-at-173516.png
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GWG I could move the note to the bottom section
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barnabywalters GWG: if you’ve done any usability testing on this the please, please write a post about it!
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barnabywalters it’s hugely valuable
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GWG barnabywalters: I should. I asked a bunch of people I correspond with who aren't familiar with the indieweb
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barnabywalters GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 4 karma
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barnabywalters I’d be really interested to read what you found
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aaronpk awesome
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aaronpk totally
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aaronpk definitely deserves a writeup!
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kylewm barnabywalters: i'm super glad i didn't have to do the research for the nominatum -> h-geo mapping. thank you!
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barnabywalters kylewm: glad it was helpful!
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barnabywalters please let me know if you find any edge cases it doesn’t cover
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barnabywalters my experience with it is limited to the UK and Iceland
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kylewm ok :)
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kylewm it's interesting, Nominatum returns "San Mateo" for my city, even though I live on the "u" in Burlingame
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bnvk1 https://indietech.org/summit/ speakers posted… excited to have fellow IndieWebber adactio and tommorris in the mix :)
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adactio bnvk1: Looking forward to seeing you and tommorris.
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tommorris Should be fun although "nice guy" may be false advertising.
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bnvk1 tommorris: true, I had dinner with you on my birthday and you were a terrible meaney mean face :P
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tommorris Heh.
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tommorris Aral found a not awful picture of me too. ;)
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bnvk1 yah, he did a nice job on the site
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GWG Darn it
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GWG I had to change the field name
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GWG I have to rekey everything
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barnabywalters hm, is it just me or is Nominatim not returning nearly as accurate information as it used to
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barnabywalters I don’t seem to be able to get streetnames for places in Iceland any more
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aaronpk that's a bummer
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GWG barnabywalters: Took the plugin live
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GWG http://david.shanske.com/notes/2014/05/25/thinking-social-buttons/
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barnabywalters GWG: looking good!
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barnabywalters huh, a pity Jeena had a bad experience with web action toolbelt
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barnabywalters Jeena: what were the problems you had with buttons not working?
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barnabywalters I’d like to fix them, or document them better
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Jeena I'll load it up and retry, some of the buttons didn't do anything when I clicked, and some did something else as advertised, but give me a couple of minutes then I can refresh my memory
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GWG I just added actions to the live site
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GWG From the test site
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Jeena https://gist.github.com/jeena/c553c38f9721cedf4391 barnabywalters I can't reproduce the thing where it would do something else as expected anymore, perhaps that back then was a configuration error
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Jeena now it mostly is that there are only buttons on the homepage, nowhere else
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barnabywalters Jeena: thanks for documenting those issues!
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Jeena and the buttons look really displaced ^^ http://jeena.net/s/latest.png
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barnabywalters many of them are due to twitter loading new pages via javascript, the toolbelt isn’t handling that correctly, nor is it handling new-style timelines
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barnabywalters and yeah, the buttons look bad
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Jeena I tried to fix the CSS but it wasn't easy because twitter overwrites it in some way, then I gave up
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Jeena ah hm interesting, now I see what you mean, if I open the new page in a new tab so it loads the page fully then there are the buttons
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Jeena I assume all that confused me a lot
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barnabywalters Jeena: yeah, writing this sort of code to interact with other sites is a pain
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Jeena iframe! ;)
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barnabywalters Jeena: that’s potentially a very good idea
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aaronpk wow this is kind of magical... I just extracted my entire iMessage history out of the chat.db file and it's now sitting as text files in neatly organized folders
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KartikPrabhu nice
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aaronpk now I just need to figure out if it makes more sense to archive as html with microformats or plain text
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aaronpk leaning towards html so that I can also embed images
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aaronpk also messages can have newlines which may make parsing the plaintext version harder
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@tgb Trying out WebMentions - http://www.tombruning.com/trying-out-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/471006584374427648)
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@markhdavis The Web We Lost - Anil Dash #indieweb http://dashes.com/anil/2012/12/the-web-we-lost.html (twitter.com/_/status/471006745956204545)
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@markhdavis The Web We Lost - Anil Dash #indieweb http://dashes.com/anil/2012/12/the-web-we-lost.html (twitter.com/_/status/471006755686977536)
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KartikPrabhu interesting article on URL design: http://www.frankieroberto.com/weblog/1621
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aaronpk I decided I like the HTML version
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bear structured html is a good archive format because you can give context to the content and also carry metadata
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@kevinmarks @jon_neal @RaphaelJS look round to me. Did you see https://useiconic.com/tour/ earlier? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/471018165107818496)
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snarfed aaronpk: agreed, sms/call backup is nice. reminds me of https://snarfed.org/vonage_call_activity
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snarfed (i now use https://github.com/jberkel/sms-backup-plus , which is easier)
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snarfed the vonage hack ended up with html like this: https://snarfed.org/vonage_incoming_calls_example.html
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aaronpk neat
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aaronpk now it backs up images that were sent via imessage too!
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GWG I should see how you backup Google Voice before they cancel it
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Loqi fo sho
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aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/Google-Voice-PHP-API
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GWG aaronpk: I need to find an alternative
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aaronpk alternative to google voice?
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rascul there is sendhub but it's not as featureful as google voice
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GWG rascul: I'd pay for an alternative
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GWG Ring.to maybe?
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rascul sendhub gets better when you pay but i don't know how it compares to others
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GWG The stuff is for businesses
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GWG There isn't a personal one yet
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rascul yeah you can use sendhub personal
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rascul they got a free plan i used it for awhile, unless they changed it all since then
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GWG There is is
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rascul there was also a nifty android app that never worked right for me
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Loqi [mention] http://david.shanske.com/indieweb/2014/05/11/getting-started-indieweb-part-1/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://david.shanske.com/indieweb/2014/05/11/getting-started-indieweb-part-1/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/rel-me (webmention)
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GWG Updating some metadata to accommodate the new plugin. There may be a few of those
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@jalbertbowdenii july 4 will be international declaration of independence (you rule @aral) #openweb #indieweb https://twitter.com/jalbertbowdenii/status/471033348358291456/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/471033348358291456)
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@kartik_prabhu technologies < ideas < actions. @adactio on #indieweb and selfpublishing http://adactio.com/journal/6801/ (https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/technologies-ideas-action) (twitter.com/_/status/471033654257668096)
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Loqi [mention] http://david.shanske.com/articles/2014/04/29/design-obsession/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Selfdogfood (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://david.shanske.com/notes/2014/04/27/remotely-attending-indiewebcamp-nyc/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/NYC (webmention)
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KartikPrabhu !tell adactio: how did your article (http://adactio.com/journal/6801/) get a webmention from my note? I never sent it?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi adactio: KartikPrabhu left you a message 10 minutes ago: how did your article (http://adactio.com/journal/6801/) get a webmention from my note? I never sent it?
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adactio !tell KartikPrabhu: I pasted the link in manually to my webmention form.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu adactio: aah ok I was about to do the same but there it was :)
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: adactio left you a message 22 seconds ago: I pasted the link in manually to my webmention form.
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@portenkirchner .@adactio on Selfish publishing http://adactio.com/journal/6801/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/471039819767111681)
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adactio.com edited /bookmark (+234) "/* Documented Examples */" (view diff)
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snarfed jk
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snarfed (…so there :P)
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KartikPrabhu I should start posting bookmarks, reposts and all that
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Loqi yea
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@blackdog66 RT @jalbertbowdenii: july 4 will be international declaration of independence (you rule @aral) #openweb #indieweb https://twitter.com/jalbertbowdenii/status/471033348358291456/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/471044452602380288)
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@markhdavis Meet the Hackers Who Want to Jailbreak the Internet | #indieweb | WIRED http://www.wired.com/2013/08/indie-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/471046923928227841)
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@markhdavis Meet the Hackers Who Want to Jailbreak the Internet | #indieweb | WIRED http://www.wired.com/2013/08/indie-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/471046929376608256)
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@inky "Keep the web weird and interesting." Indie Web Principles http://indiewebcamp.com/Principles (twitter.com/_/status/471048135608127488)
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@inky "selfdogfood is a specific form of dogfooding" http://indiewebcamp.com/selfdogfood (twitter.com/_/status/471049132770349056)
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aaronpk !tell bnvk I'm pretty happy with the way my iMessage archive turned out: https://github.com/aaronpk/iMessage-Export
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu hmm that wired headline makes it sound quite sinister "Meet the Hackers Who Want to Jailbreak the Internet" http://www.wired.com/2013/08/indie-web/
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aaronpk yeah :/
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KartikPrabhu "hackers" and "jailbreak" no longer have positive connotations among the general public I feel
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KartikPrabhu "meet the coders who want to fix the internet" would be better ;)
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caseorganic KartikPrabhu: klintron mentioned that he couldn't choose the title
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caseorganic KartikPrabhu: he tried for a different one, but his editor at wired chose that one
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caseorganic KartikPrabhu: it's a real shame. dan gilmor's article was much better though!
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KartikPrabhu caseorganic: not necessarily blaming the author. I realise these things have to go through multiple "editorial" people who might care more about grabbing eye balls and click stats
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caseorganic KartikPrabhu: it's unfortunate, but true
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KartikPrabhu dangilmour's article was really great
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KartikPrabhu s/dangilmour/dangilmor
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Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: dangilmor's article was really great
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caseorganic KartikPrabhu: i was spending most of my time recruiting someone during that indiewebcamp instead of talking with with the right people
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caseorganic KartikPrabhu: and thankfully i fixed that at sf
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caseorganic KartikPrabhu: at the sf indiewebcamp
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KartikPrabhu :D
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caseorganic KartikPrabhu: so i take responsibility for the inaccuracy of the article in wired
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KartikPrabhu is pretty excited for the next one at NYC :)
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caseorganic KartikPrabhu: as it could have been prevented by simply talking more. i had to do a cost benefit analysis. we ended up getting a lovely person to join our team, but indieweb suffered for it.
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KartikPrabhu caseorganic: the article is not inaccurate, just the title is a bit sensationalised in the wrong way
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caseorganic KartikPrabhu: agreed
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caseorganic KartikPrabhu: i do feel like a lot was missing though
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KartikPrabhu yes but I expect such omissions. Indieweb includes so many things that writing about all of them in one article can be tricky. (I avoided and picked a few things while writing mine...)
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KartikPrabhu is going to aaronpk's quill to note this wired article :)
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aaronpk oh cool!
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@kartik_prabhu @wired makes it sound all so sinister: http://www.wired.com/2013/08/indie-web/ (https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/wired-indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/471057652181528577)
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: does your micropub endpoint automatically post that to twitter or is there a manual step?
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KartikPrabhu i do it manually using bridgy... haven't figured out auto-POSSE yet
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aaronpk ah cool
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KartikPrabhu also slug field plz ;)
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aaronpk oh right!
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aaronpk considers if he's really ready to go down this rabbit hole
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aaronpk maybe as long as there really is a rabbit at the other side
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: you should wait until it is more than just me using it. or if you use it regularly enough :)
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aaronpk well one of my goals is to replace the built-in interface I currently use
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aaronpk i'll need a few more features still though
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KartikPrabhu so a question regarding that: will you still use IndieAuth to login to your own posting interface?
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aaronpk the goal is for this to become my posting interface
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aaronpk and I'll just drop the current one
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aaronpk that was part of the reason I decided to launch it on a subdomain of p3k.io
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KartikPrabhu yeah but you'll then use IndieAuth to login to Quill so you can post on your own site
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aaronpk right
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KartikPrabhu I mean "Why should I rely indirectly on Twitter to authorize entry into my own site"?
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aaronpk but I don't
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KartikPrabhu hmm then how would logging into Quill work then?
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aaronpk aha! i'm glad you asked :)
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aaronpk there are two parts to the answer
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aaronpk part 1:
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aaronpk currently I regularly switch between using github, persona and TOTP login methods when signing in on indieauth.com
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KartikPrabhu what is TOTP?
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aaronpk it's the protocol the google authenticator app implements, but I also have it on my watch
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KartikPrabhu hmm ok
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aaronpk TOTP is particularly handy if I'm on an untrusted computer or slow network connection since it doesn't require additional HTTP requests
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aaronpk http://aaron.pk/a4R11
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aaronpk part 2:
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KartikPrabhu TOTP is a neat idea :)
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aaronpk ultimately your website gets to delegate to an authorization server of its choosing. currently indieauth.com provides that as a service if you want to use it
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aaronpk if you wanted to, you could point to your own authorization server and not use indieauth.com at all
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GWG Hmmm... caseorganic was here.
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caseorganic hello?
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aaronpk if you do that and if you implement your own token endpoint, then you have become your own OAuth server
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caseorganic GWG: greetings
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GWG caseorganic: Greetings. I don't think I've ever been around when you were.
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GWG You are one of the reasons I'm here.
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: very nice... so just like bridgy IndieAuth is to be taken more as a stop-gap service
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aaronpk yep! well, IndieAuth.com
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KartikPrabhu yeah that's what I meant...
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KartikPrabhu hmm cool :)
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aaronpk in practice I expect lots of people will continue to use it because building that kind of thing is really annoying
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aaronpk i'm trying to document all this better. I have a category going on the wiki for all the related pages http://indiewebcamp.com/Category:IndieAuth
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KartikPrabhu true. maybe this can be added to http://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth#Is_it_good_to_delegate_auth_to_3rd_parties
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aaronpk hm that section is more about the twitter/github/silo delegation that's happening
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aaronpk ....with relmeauth
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aaronparecki.com created /TOTP (+648) "stub with dfn and examples" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: are you ok with me publicizing Quill? well not a whole lot but just on my micropub endpoint?
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aaronpk sure!
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aaronpk it's on mine now too
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/05/26/1/p3k-indieweb-micropub-quill
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aaronparecki.com created /Quill (+223) "stub with dfn" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: I have just noted it on my micropub endpoint: https://kartikprabhu.com/micropub I don't have the setup to add it to my notes at the moment
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aaronpk very cool!
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Loqi [mention] http://david.shanske.com/articles/2014/04/10/ive-joined-indieweb-movement/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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GWG Ignore him
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kartikprabhu.com edited /micropub-endpoint (+157) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ added me" (view diff)
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aaronpk good idea!
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KartikPrabhu :D
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aaronpk also good call on returning html for it on an empty GET request
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aaronpk i should fix that
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Loqi fo sho
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KartikPrabhu I just added a GET to my webmention endpoint, so why not to this... :)
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aaronparecki.com edited /micropub-endpoint (+67) "/* Indieweb Examples */ add myself!" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Quill (+161) "add indieweb examples" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: shouldn't this also have Quill instead of IndiePost?
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KartikPrabhu http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#Clients
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aaronpk yes :)
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aaronparecki.com edited /micropub (-14) "/* Clients */ renamed to Quill!" (view diff)
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Loqi bnvk: aaronpk left you a message 1 hour, 15 minutes ago: I'm pretty happy with the way my iMessage archive turned out: https://github.com/aaronpk/iMessage-Export
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GWG There. New data in
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GWG Need to start putting in some checks
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GWG Odd that safety always comes second.
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KartikPrabhu you need a rough prototype to see how it will fail
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I have that.
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GWG tiny.n9n.us
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KartikPrabhu yup and now you can put the checks in
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aaronparecki.com edited /p3k (+72) "/* Source Code */ add [[Quill]]" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /micropub (-19) "/* Clients */ link to [[Quill]] instead of URL" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu caseorganic: after a second reading, I sort of agree that the Wired article seems to be missing quite a bit. It makes the indieweb sound less focused than it actually is. trying to cover a lot of breadth at the cost of some depth...
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I don't have anything that checks if there are no syndication links
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GWG So the text appears without anything.
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aaronparecki.com created /indieauth.com (+331) "stub with dfn and description of the two roles. probably could be improved." (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /indieauth.com (+96) "see also" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /micropub (+8) "/* h-entry */ add slug" (view diff)
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@cydlos RT @Burgos: Interessante esse site que mapeia os serviços/sites que estão desaparecendo: http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/471076432664612865)
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@alpn00 RT @Burgos: Interessante esse site que mapeia os serviços/sites que estão desaparecendo: http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/471077311803310080)
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aaronpk micropub is already 8 months old, time flies
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KartikPrabhu wait its only 8 months old!
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aaronpk heh
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KartikPrabhu I implemented something <1year old w00t! :)
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Loqi yay!
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pdurbin they grow up so fast