#indiewebcamp 2014-05-27

2014-05-27 UTC
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@brennannovak @adactio nice! Veklomin to the #IndieWeb POSSE style! (twitter.com/_/status/471078651136851970)
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: just for you I added a "slug" field
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aaronpk it's live now
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KartikPrabhu nice nice! I'll play around with it on my next note :D Though I have to add the code for it :P
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aaronpk haha
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aaronpk yeah I had to add it to my micropub endpoint too. luckily it was really easy
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kylewm aaronpk: does your site still show realtime comments?
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KartikPrabhu yeah shouldn't be much trouble except I use 'slug" as the uniqu identifier which might be troublesome
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aaronpk kylewm: it should... but I think there's something weird happening where it doesn't render the actual content, just shows the URL
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kylewm aaronpk: testing now :)
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aaronpk i saw it!
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kylewm ha, yep you were right, the URL pops up
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: should bridgy be using micropub instead of webmentions to POSSE (ideally) ?
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: bridgy publish?
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KartikPrabhu yes
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aaronpk good question! I've only thought about doing syndication at the same time as creating the post so far
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aaronpk hm wait that's backwards tho
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: that could work. i think i'm pretty happy with how it works now, but yeah, i guess technically micropub is more appropriate
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KartikPrabhu basically using micropub to post to twitter with bridgy acting as a translator
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aaronpk right now it's a clever overload of webmention
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aaronpk just realized he hasn't used "overload" in that context in probably about 10 years http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Function_overloading
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snarfed heh
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KartikPrabhu oo adaction added notes! sweet... POSSE ftw!
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KartikPrabhu s/adaction/adactio
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Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: oo adactio added notes! sweet... POSSE ftw!
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: checking my understanding, bridgy would be the micropub endpoint?
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aaronpk yeah which is kind of odd
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KartikPrabhu yeah...
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snarfed eh it's similar to how it works now
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snarfed it proxies indieweb protocols for silos
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aaronpk it's not really micropub or webmention
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KartikPrabhu right now it is a webmention endpoint
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aaronpk it just happens to use the same parameters as webmention right now
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KartikPrabhu i mean micropub is also just HTTP with added parameters in the spec
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aaronpk wait a sec...
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aaronpk sorry KartikPrabhu
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/471082957680025601
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@kartik_prabhu Posting a note from Indiepost using micropub! (https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/indiepost-using-micropub) (twitter.com/_/status/471082957680025601)
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aaronpk yeah bridgy publish needs some sort of authentication
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KartikPrabhu oh yeah I pointed that out long ago :)
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KartikPrabhu Can I POSSE someone else's notes as mine?
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snarfed no, you can't
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aaronpk i tweeted that for KartikPrabhu by using this command: `curl -i https://www.brid.gy/publish/webmention -d source=https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/indiepost-using-micropub -d target=http://brid.gy/publish/twitter`
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snarfed it works similar to relmeauth. it only lets you publish content from the domain that's in your silo's web site field
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snarfed aaronpk: yes, right. you can posse his content for him, but not anyone else's
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aaronpk that still seems bad
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KartikPrabhu yeah that was my secret note :(
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snarfed oh definitely, agreed. it's missing some auth there
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KartikPrabhu <jk>
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snarfed heh, it definitely can't see (or posse) non-public stuff
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snarfed but yes, extra checks there would be nice
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snarfed just hasn't become a priority
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snarfed i punted because i'd need to add something like indieauth login, which would take a bit of work
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aaronpk snarfed: i'm working on an indieauth client to help bootstrap services before implementing the whole flow
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KartikPrabhu wouldn't setting authorization_endpoint as indieauth just work?
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aaronpk i don't think bridgy has any sort of auth of its own, it just uses silo auth directly cause that's all it needs right now
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aaronpk this is an ugly version: http://client.indieauth.com/signin but my ios app uses it right now
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aaronpk cause the last thing I wanted to do was implement indieauth+oauth in objective C
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aaronpk so if Bridgy Publish can post a syndicated version out to Twitter, it should have a mechanism for notifying your site of the Tweet URL
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Loqi [mention] http://david.shanske.com/articles/2014/05/26/semantic-comments-user-testing/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/facepile (webmention)
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aaronpk GWG: nice!
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aaronpk one note... might be helpful to add some sort of border or drop shadow to the screenshots of the interfaces like http://david.shanske.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Screenshot-from-2014-05-26-200431.png because right now it looks like a real form
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GWG aaronpk: What is?
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aaronpk GWG: something like this would be clearer https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3822/14092336947_82e6f54c01_o.png
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GWG Let me see what I can do.
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GWG I just set up the manual POSSE to G+
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aaronpk i just mean the screenshots in that post
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aaronpk they look like the real part of the webpage
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Loqi [mention] http://david.shanske.com/articles/2014/05/26/semantic-comments-user-testing/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/facepile (webmention)
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: bridgy/publish does send the url see: https://www.brid.gy/about#response
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Loqi [mention] http://david.shanske.com/articles/2014/05/26/semantic-comments-user-testing/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/facepile (webmention)
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GWG I wish it would stop doing that every time I update
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aaronpk GWG: that's correct behavior for your site, but kind of incorrect behavior of the IRC bridge
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GWG aaronpk: I think I fixed that.
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GWG aaronpk: I meant the IRC
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aaronpk in IRC it should say something like "updated" instead of "linked to"
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aaronpk or just ignore it
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I also probably sent you a webmention.
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KartikPrabhu should have some notification page for new things on the site
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KartikPrabhu GWG: I don
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: the convention seems to be making a /mentions page like http://aaronparecki.com/mentions and http://waterpigs.co.uk/mentions/
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KartikPrabhu s/I don/I don't see any
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Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: GWG: I don't see any
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GWG I linked to your no comment story
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: yes I have seen those... :)
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aaronpk also see: http://indiewebcamp.com/mention-app which will send you push notifications about mentions if you publish a page like that
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KartikPrabhu oo neat...
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KartikPrabhu GWG: link to your post?
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aaronpk (it doens't exist yet)
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aaronpk (but is well spec'd out)
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GWG http://david.shanske.com/articles/2014/05/26/semantic-comments-user-testing/
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GWG IT gave me a 500 error when I tried to send it with your form
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KartikPrabhu aa then something wrong on my end... will look into it :)
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GWG I wanted to give you props, and you are propless?
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KartikPrabhu haha! I will use your post to debug... biut first some manner of dinner
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aaronpk hm dinner is not a bad idea
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bret what is everyone working on?
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GWG bret: I just posted about that
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GWG http://david.shanske.com/articles/2014/05/26/semantic-comments-user-testing/
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aaronpk bret: lol
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bret cool!
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aaronpk bret: you sound like Loqi: https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/d6f17c0970cbf374e8ed
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Loqi who, me?
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bret lol when was this?
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aaronpk today
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aaronpk he asks us all the time
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bret hehe! loqi should randomly ask random people in the rooms that 3 times a month
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aaronpk it's from http://donereports.com/
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aaronpk 3 times a month! haha. right now he asks every 3 hours
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bret lol yeah but thats people getting paid, I mean idlers
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bret thats rad
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KartikPrabhu I've never been asked
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KartikPrabhu :(
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aaronpk lol Loqi doesn't do it here
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KartikPrabhu oh ok
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aaronpk only bret does
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bret KartikPrabhu what are you working on?
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aaronpk GWG has said it once
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KartikPrabhu is fixing database to get around field length restrictions :P
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aaronpk kylewm has too
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bret KartikPrabhu++
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bret GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 5 karma
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 27 karma
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KartikPrabhu wants file-storage
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bret falling for sublime text more and more
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bret cross platform tools is really critical
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bret KartikPrabhu what about use file storage and a db as a caching layer?
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KartikPrabhu yes. That is what I want to do. but I have to build it :)
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rascul bret adobe brackets is pretty nice
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bret i have an old computer and it runs terribly on it unfortunately
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rascul ahh yeah
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bret but i agree, really nice!
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bret same issue with light table and atom editor
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bret sublime manages to still be fairly snappy even on old hardware
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GWG Thinking about adding more metadata. What would a location field attached to a post be like?
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aaronpk GWG: http://indiewebcamp.com/location
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bret What is location?
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bret is that how that works?
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Loqi location is a key aspect of checkin and event posts http://indiewebcamp.com/location
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aaronpk needs an indieweb examples section
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snarfed aaronpk: re an old comment of yours, bridgy publish returns the id and url of the newly created tweet/fb post in the webmention response
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snarfed https://www.brid.gy/about#response
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aaronpk yeah that might cover it
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GWG I've been adopting a two pronged approach to adding features.
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GWG Manually adding the data, then automatically adding it
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snarfed manual++
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Loqi manual has 1 karma
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aaronpk yes!
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aaronpk manually doing things is a great way to test them out. then automate if successful.
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GWG For example, I just added the variables for syndication links
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GWG A future step is to pull them from Bridgy and other sources automatically into said variables, instead of filling them into the boxes I set up
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KartikPrabhu is quite annoyed with having to edit MySQL field lengths all the time :|
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: just use TEXT
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KartikPrabhu instead of char or others... hmm interesting...
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@benwerd Known: taking a big bet on the #indieweb http://werd.io/2014/known-taking-a-big-bet-on-the-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/471099084711792640)
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Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/known-taking-a-big-bet-on-the-indieweb linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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KartikPrabhu which is why I i should just build my file-storage
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aaronpk unless you're talking about millions of records there's not a lot of downsides to just using a TEXT column
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Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/known-taking-a-big-bet-on-the-indieweb linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/known-taking-a-big-bet-on-the-indieweb linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/known-taking-a-big-bet-on-the-indieweb linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/known-taking-a-big-bet-on-the-indieweb linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/known-taking-a-big-bet-on-the-indieweb linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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@kevinmarks RT @benwerd: Known: taking a big bet on the #indieweb http://werd.io/2014/known-taking-a-big-bet-on-the-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/471101943251607552)
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aaronpk okay... we should no longer see duplicate mentions
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aaronpk it was the least I could do
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GWG aaronpk: Thank you. I found the duplication annoying
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GWG What are the new parameters?
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GWG How does it decide something is a dupe?
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aaronpk webmention.io just won't send an irc notification if it's already sent it in the past
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GWG Ok
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GWG aaronpk: I really wish I had someone who did things so fast working for my employer.
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aaronpk haha
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GWG We've had the same problem on and off for 10 years on our website.
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GWG We finally had the idea...why are we trying to prove to the web team there is a problem? Let's ask them. They must keep data on failures in the logs.
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GWG Guess what...they don't.
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GWG On a positive note, documentation and logging suddenly seem so very important to me.
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aaronpk :)
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aaronpk i have sort of the opposite problem with logging
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GWG aaronpk: Too much of it?
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aaronpk by default I try to log too much, a lot of it ends up being not important except for in the short term, and then is a burden to store
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GWG I set up collectd on my server to gather all sorts of stats...and I probably use them sparingly.
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GWG I made some nice graphs
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GWG I get more use out of an install of monit and a license for Pushover.
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KartikPrabhu GWG: the microformat markup on http://david.shanske.com/articles/2014/05/26/semantic-comments-user-testing/ is a bit off
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KartikPrabhu which threw my parser into a fit.
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I know. I messed it up when I was trying to fix it.
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GWG Next project
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KartikPrabhu aah ok :) feel free to resend the mention, I have it done now
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GWG You account now for bad coding?
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GWG Or you want me to wait til I fix the problem I created while trying to fix the problem?
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KartikPrabhu no, I am truncating the title of your post since the wrong one is picked up
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GWG Interesting
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GWG I am going to be returning to the theme work next, as I just finished ripping out the comment section into a separate plugin
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KartikPrabhu sure thing
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GWG Much of my theme work, as I mentioned, lately is completing destroying my previous work
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@KenstonTech Since I personally run my own email system now. No human nor machine will be reading my email except me. #control #OwnYourData (twitter.com/_/status/471111560384225281)
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Loqi benwerd: snarfed left you a message 3 days, 5 hours ago: you and i might be hosting a few HWCs over the next couple months. the event you did at rockit colabs worked well...want to try there again? i'm happy to join as a member, or donate or whatever, if it'll help.
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benwerd snarfed: I'm no longer a member at RockIT, because of my Matter office membership (saving money) - but I might be able to get the venue anyway. Will ask
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snarfed benwerd: great!
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benwerd !tell tantek Remember the simple profile code commit that inspired work to begin on Idno, a year or two ago? Some communities move faster than others (check the names) ... http://blog.elgg.org/pg/blog/matt/read/241/elgg-190rc1-released
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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aaronpk benwerd: there is no year on that page!
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benwerd aaronpk: ha, you're right! it could literally be any point 2009-2014. (But it's 2014.)
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2012/08/23/1/you-should-not-be-displaying-relative-dates
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aaronpk lol at the list of contributors: "EC2 Default User"
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aaronpk must be autogenerated from the git history
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: that article is a bit dated (pardon the pun)... Twitter shows relative dates again
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aaronpk oh hey!
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aaronpk maybe they took my advice ;)
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aaronpk oh no I mentioned that in the post
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KartikPrabhu oh hmm
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KartikPrabhu yeah... they seemed to have switched back to relative dates... can't say I like it
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@bear @brianloveswords I sure was! The #indieweb folks keep challenging me to write better code, to use it for my site and to publish it (twitter.com/_/status/471115509120135168)
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@kevinmarks @Skud try #indiewebcamp on freenode - a fair bit of that goes on in there (twitter.com/_/status/471120839220674560)
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@CaptainCalliope @willowbl00 @caseorganic Just saw the CyborgCamp/IndieWebCamp super weekend! I'm sooooooo in! :D (twitter.com/_/status/471123695600406530)
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GWG Cyborgcamp?
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CaptainCalliope I.. ok. This was an unexpected place for my tweet to show up.
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CaptainCalliope http://cyborgcamp.com/Main_Page
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CaptainCalliope Happening at MIT in October.
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GWG Hello, CaptainCalliope.
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CaptainCalliope Hi!
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GWG What brings you here?
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GWG Other than the obvious?
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CaptainCalliope Oh, plots to take back the web, etc etc.
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GWG CaptainCalliope: So, the Captain refers to your rank in the Internet Liberation Army?
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CaptainCalliope Been a remote admirerer of IndieWebCamp since its inception. Looks like I'll finally be able to participate in one.
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CaptainCalliope And no, didnt' even know the Internet Liberation Army was a thing. It's more whimsical.
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GWG CaptainCalliope: Which one?
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GWG CaptainCalliope: It's a thing? I just made it up I thought.
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CaptainCalliope The title of Captain.
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rascul forks the Internet Liberation Army into the People's Internet Liberation Army
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CaptainCalliope Huzzah! Interoperable made-up armies!
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GWG forks the People's Internet Liberation Army into the Popular Front for the Liberation of Internetdom
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CaptainCalliope I'm a volunteer with Mozilla and do some Code for America stuff here in Boston.
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rascul there's an indieweb thing in cambridge later this year
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CaptainCalliope Which is what brought me here. :)
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GWG CaptainCalliope: Ah, Boston....Okay.
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CaptainCalliope Just found out.
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GWG I thought you might be coming to the East one.
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rascul i may be able to go to the cambridge thing
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rascul it's still months away so i have time to build my site first :)
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GWG Good move
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CaptainCalliope So, I'm interested in helping with the event. Possibly helping organize. Maybe trying to see if I can get Mozilla to foot the lunch bill. Would CaseOrganic be the main person to speak with about this?
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aaronpk CaptainCalliope: for boston? Yep! or myself, since I'll be there too
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CaptainCalliope Sweet!
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CaptainCalliope I've added this room to my autojoin list, so I'll be around.
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KartikPrabhu neat! welcome :)
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CaptainCalliope Community organizing is most of what I do, so ping me for anything. :)
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aaronpk awesome!
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GWG aaronpk: A chance to meet you in person? I should stop by.
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aaronpk will definitely be in touch then
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GWG Hmmm...not likely.
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GWG Oh, well
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GWG Why is the parser showing my entire article as the name?
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aaronpk probably missing a p-name property, so it's using the implied name rules
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GWG aaronpk: I'd better start looking
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GWG There is one that I see
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aaronpk link?
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GWG I'm using the article I posted earlier
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GWG http://david.shanske.com/articles/2014/05/26/semantic-comments-user-testing/
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aaronpk there is something odd
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GWG Oh?
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aaronpk it's hard to see
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aaronpk i think there might be a mismatched close tag somewhere messing everything up
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GWG I'm trying to find it myself.
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rascul line 198 </span
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rascul missing the >
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bear GWG ^^
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bear rascul++
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Loqi rascul has 2 karma
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KartikPrabhu GWG: the problem is you have a h-entry > h-as-article > p-name
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aaronpk wow how did you find that
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rascul firefox view source
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rascul tuns errors red easy to see :)
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rascul s/tuns/turns/
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Loqi rascul meant to say: turns errors red easy to see :)
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GWG KartikPrabhu: Can you clarify?
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KartikPrabhu not microformats errors
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KartikPrabhu GWG: you have a <div> with class=h-entry and id=primary but then inside that you have an <article> with class="hentry h-as-article"
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KartikPrabhu the p-name is then scoped to the <article> with class=h-as-article but not to the first h-entry
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 28 karma
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: I was looking at the source because my webmention parser also gave the whole article as name :P
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rascul sounds like that was harder to find than my looking for red!
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KartikPrabhu also due to all the practice with mf2py I can parse microformats easily... not sure if that gets me into any superhero league ;)
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GWG KartikPrabhu: What would you recommend?
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KartikPrabhu GWG: do you know what is inserting the first h-entry?
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GWG I only see one in the page though
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GWG But, yes.
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KartikPrabhu wordpress is known to do weird stuff with old microformats and new ones... for instance in your case there is one h-entry (microformats2) and a different hentry (microformats1)
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KartikPrabhu you want to remove the first and add it to the second
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GWG I removed it from the second and added it to the first
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GWG Because the article enclosure didn't include the comment section.
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KartikPrabhu aah then you also want to remove the "h-as-article" from the <article> because anything that is h-* will count as a microformat "head"
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GWG Well, I may try to move the /article till after the comment-form.
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KartikPrabhu yes that seems better... but then all the "h-entry h-as-article" should be on the <article>
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GWG Yes.
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GWG My original solution was wrong
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KartikPrabhu cool :)
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GWG I moved the h-entry
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KartikPrabhu cool let me know if the microformats are still coming out wrong
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rascul GWG i now see a </main> on that link on line 253 but there's no <main>
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KartikPrabhu another thing you might want to do is move the "p-category" to each tag instead of the container
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KartikPrabhu GWG^
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GWG rascul: I'll look for a main.
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I think I fixed h-entry
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KartikPrabhu GWG: yeah I checked that look good.
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GWG KartikPrabhu: That might take a bit to add the individual p-category. But let me have a look.
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KartikPrabhu the thing is right now you have a category as "category1 category2" instead of being a list of 2 categories
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: on the quill homepage, if I click "Sign in" with a blank URL field it throws errors "no authorization endpoint". instead you should add "required" so that it saves a request and gives the correct error :)
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aaronpk oops
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I fixed it for categories. Need to write a custom tag function to do it for tags.
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KartikPrabhu yeah microformats don't distinguish between them
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GWG KartikPrabhu: Try it now
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KartikPrabhu yup works :)
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GWG Glad that is fixed.
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GWG Should I have marked up my link to your article?
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GWG rascul: I see a main and a /main
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rascul hrm
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rascul oh i see main now
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GWG I may mess the markup up again
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GWG I keep ripping pieces out of the thing.
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KartikPrabhu GWG: no. unless your article is a "reply", "like", or "repost"
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GWG Well, in one case, it is sort of a reply
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@tistre RT @benwerd: Known: taking a big bet on the #indieweb http://werd.io/2014/known-taking-a-big-bet-on-the-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/471143725796958209)
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rascul GWG firefox says there's something wrong with it http://rascul.io/tmp/gwg.png
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GWG Odd. But there is still a main
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rascul running it through w3c validator could be helpful
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GWG I may do that. I haven't in a while.
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GWG I've made so many little changes.
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KartikPrabhu GWG: that is because at the start you have <main> then <article> so you should be closing them as </article> first and then </main>
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KartikPrabhu you might also want to be careful about the <div> in the middle. the correct order is </article></main></div>
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rascul oh i see, the /main /div /article are in the wrong order
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rascul heh KartikPrabhu wins
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aaronpk ooh what's the prize?
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KartikPrabhu yeah what's the prize?
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rascul umm
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rascul i didn't plan this far ahead
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GWG Again, my fault
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GWG I did that quickly when I fixed the other problem
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GWG Fixed now
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GWG So, what is missing now
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GWG ?
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@GabrielBarem RT @Burgos: Interessante esse site que mapeia os serviços/sites que estão desaparecendo: http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/471147542278057984)
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JonathanNeal hi all
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GWG Hello, JonathanNeal
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KartikPrabhu hi JonathanNeal
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JonathanNeal I really dig the login at indiewebcamp, I need something like that for my own site. I think it’s time I ditched the teapot http://jonneal.com/
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aaronpk you could use indieauth.com! https://indieauth.com/developers
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JonathanNeal Does it support Twitter? I used to have a lot of trouble with it and twitter.
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JonathanNeal Or maybe my issue was protocol-less URLs.
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@HNTweets Site Deaths: http://indiewebcamp.com/site_deaths Comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7803057 (twitter.com/_/status/471166416284942336)
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aaronpk nice! upvote here https://news.ycombinator.com/newest
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aaronpk neat, found someone POSSE'ing to medium
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aaronpk https://medium.com/life-hacks/869c9d51660 http://gran.do/blog/lets-hang-out
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aaronpk "This post also appears on my website, where I keep my writing more current and am allowed more freedom and control over the content."
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aaronpk oh hey and he cites adactio and tommorris in this post http://gran.do/blog/for-the-love-of-the-url
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@aaronpk @grrrando Hey! If you're ever in Portland we should grab a beer and chat #indieweb! Love the cross-posting from... http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/05/26/2/indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/471168491731431424)
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@verbosestream Site Deaths - http://indiewebcamp.com/site_deaths (twitter.com/_/status/471169188648607744)
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@hnbreaking Site Deaths http://indiewebcamp.com/site_deaths https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7803057 (twitter.com/_/status/471167698647252992)
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@HackerTheArtist From HN: Site Deaths http://indiewebcamp.com/site_deaths (twitter.com/_/status/471167146173952000)
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@WebStartupGroup Site Deaths http://indiewebcamp.com/site_deaths #news (twitter.com/_/status/471167116893491201)
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@VincAppman Site Deaths http://indiewebcamp.com/site_deaths (twitter.com/_/status/471167016720941056)
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@TechnologyNomad Site Deaths | http://indiewebcamp.com/site_deaths #geeknews via ycombinator (twitter.com/_/status/471166889373466624)
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@hnycombinator Site Deaths http://indiewebcamp.com/site_deaths (cmts https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7803057) (twitter.com/_/status/471166584833454080)
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@_hnyc Site Deaths http://indiewebcamp.com/site_deaths (twitter.com/_/status/471166296714149888)
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@hackernewsrss Site Deaths http://indiewebcamp.com/site_deaths (twitter.com/_/status/471166158545379328)
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@pradeepbheron Site Deaths http://indiewebcamp.com/site_deaths (twitter.com/_/status/471166144788041728)
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aaronpk look at all the twitter bots go!
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aaronparecki.com edited /site-deaths (+17) "dfn" (view diff)
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aaronpk guess we get to find out how well this new server holds up to hackernews traffic
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aaronpk so far so good
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@BornCor Site Deaths http://indiewebcamp.com/site_deaths (twitter.com/_/status/471172333525544960)
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@GBDataStream Site Deaths http://indiewebcamp.com/site_deaths (twitter.com/_/status/471176412381343744)
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@nobelsn Site Deaths http://indiewebcamp.com/site_deaths (twitter.com/_/status/471176254516133888)
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@Un1v3rs0Z3r0 Site Deaths http://indiewebcamp.com/site_deaths (twitter.com/_/status/471175071298752513)
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@hindfelt Easy come, easy go #freeserviceSLA “@hnycombinator: Site Deaths http://indiewebcamp.com/site_deaths (cmts https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7803057)” (twitter.com/_/status/471175031352209408)
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@joaosodre site-deaths - IndieWebCamp via @delicious http://indiewebcamp.com/site_deaths (twitter.com/_/status/471177419769282560)
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@Mawtful "2009-10-26 http://geocities.yahoo.com/index.php went offline : "Sorry, Geocities has closed." 23 million pages gone" via http://indiewebcamp.com/site_deaths (twitter.com/_/status/471180291352981505)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/469270155575312385/2563705341 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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@dsearls RT @NZN: Sovereign Identity in the Great Silo Forest http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2013/10/14/iiw-challenge-1-sovereign-identity-in-the-great-silo-forest/ .@dsearls #vrm #iiw #indieweb #indieIDP #makered #makerfaire (twitter.com/_/status/471211651262595072)
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petermolnar hey all I have a question on indieauth: my site is ssl-only, therefore when indieauth tries to log me in, it fails
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petermolnar if I enter https://petermolnar.eu as my login, it works correctly, although every single time I need to re-authenticate the indieweb app for twitter
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petermolnar is there anyone else having issues like this?
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@albertinerxtfor Known: taking a big bet on the #indieweb http://werd.io/2014/known-taking-a-big-bet-on-the-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/471237413923471360)
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barnabywalters !tell snarfed I think my bridgy twitter access tokens just expired, I had to reauthenticate to get responses backfeeding again — does twitter have a good way of notifying people about this, as facebook does?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@leigh_nguyen It's only taken 10 years to acquire... http://www.leighnguyen.com is finally mine! #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/471266140497256450)
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@LongHandPixels RT @benwerd: Known: taking a big bet on the #indieweb http://werd.io/2014/known-taking-a-big-bet-on-the-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/471269615948292096)
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@markhdavis Ted Nelson: Computer Lib / Dream Machines | PDF download a classic #indieweb http://www.scribd.com/doc/116669489/Ted-Nelson-Computer-Lib-Dream-Machines (twitter.com/_/status/471272205759053824)
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@markhdavis Ted Nelson: Computer Lib / Dream Machines | PDF download a classic #indieweb http://www.scribd.com/doc/116669489/Ted-Nelson-Computer-Lib-Dream-Machines (twitter.com/_/status/471272228165001216)
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@ntlk "Decentralise Camp" is a much better name than "indieweb" (twitter.com/_/status/471277782467883008)
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@djbender RT @ntlk: "Decentralise Camp" is a much better name than "indieweb" (twitter.com/_/status/471278084361302016)
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GWG Need to figure out what is next
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GWG barnabywalters: I think I finally got my markup up to your standards.
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barnabywalters GWG: sounds good! live on your site or the demo?
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GWG Live on my site
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GWG I merged
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GWG http://david.shanske.com/articles/2014/05/26/semantic-comments-user-testing/
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GWG Does this look good to you?
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GWG KartikPrabhu and rascul were helping me find the last of the bugs last night...I think
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barnabywalters GWG: looking great! nice article too
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barnabywalters only thing I would point out is that your really detailed h-card is a child of the h-entry, but the h-entry’s author is much less detailed — why not just make your detailed h-card the author h-card?
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GWG barnabywalters: My mother told me she doesn't know what the heck I'm talking about.
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barnabywalters GWG: ha ha, yep I get that often too, so try to post at least once or twice a week about non-web stuff :)
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GWG Well, the h-card is in the sidebar, which is now inside the content.
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GWG I changed it because of the fact the comment section was outside the h-entry
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GWG I may need to rearrange things to move it out.
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GWG If you look at the page visually, I have this sidebar I'm barely using.
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GWG So, I don't have a use for the sidebar right now, yet I have one.
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GWG Which seems stupid.
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luxagraf surely we could come up with something better than "facepile"...?
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GWG luxagraf: It is a term already in use
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luxagraf terrible word
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GWG I didn't come up with it
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luxagraf GWG: oh I wasn't directing that at you, that words been grating on me ever since i heard a facebook engineer use it
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GWG barnabywalters: I could do the detailed h-card for each h-entry and hide the details I don't want visible.
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GWG luxagraf: I created the /facepile page on indieweb
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GWG barnabywalters: But I have that business card like display in the sidebar.
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GWG luxagraf: I feel responsible.
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barnabywalters GWG: so if you look in http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdavid.shanske.com%2Farticles%2F2014%2F05%2F26%2Fsemantic-comments-user-testing%2F you see that the sidebar h-card is a child of the h-entry
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GWG barnabywalters: That i think I can fix.
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barnabywalters so all you have to do is add p-author to the class attribute, and remove the smaller h-card, and it becomes the author
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GWG barnabywalters: What about on the main page?
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GWG Where I have multiple h-entries?
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luxagraf GWG: where does h-as-article come from? I can't find that on microformats.org
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GWG luxagraf: Where did I take it from?
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barnabywalters GWG: well, the sidebar won’t be part of any one of them, so the p-author has no effect
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GWG luxagraf: pfefferle 's code, actually.
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barnabywalters unless you make the page an h-feed, in which case the h-card would be the p-author and the h-entries children
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barnabywalters which is how my site works
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luxagraf okay, i was just wondering if there was a definition somewhere
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barnabywalters either approach is perfectly valid
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GWG barnabywalters: The same code generates the single page and the h-feed.
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GWG I think I may have to do it that way.
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barnabywalters GWG: so you should still be able to just add p-author to the sidebar class attribute and everything will work
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GWG It's non-standard Wordpress implementation, because Wordpress assumes multiple authors, but I can work with that.
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luxagraf barnabywalters: so that's been confusing me for a while, what's the advantage of making the whole page an h-feed?
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barnabywalters luxagraf: h-as-* refer to activitystream object/verb types — they’re published experimentally by a few people but not AFAIK consumed by anyone
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luxagraf i.e. should i do that?
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luxagraf barnabywalters: got it
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@djp1974 RT @albertinerxtfor: Known: taking a big bet on the #indieweb http://werd.io/2014/known-taking-a-big-bet-on-the-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/471289285966966784)
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barnabywalters luxagraf: RE why h-feed — it’s a point of discussion, and both approaches (using h-feed or bare h-entries) are perfectly valid and supported by consumers. more details http://indiewebcamp.com/h-feed and http://indiewebcamp.com/feed, let me know if you have further questions
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@withknown "We think the time is right for an independent web that is owned by content creators and readers alike." http://werd.io/2014/known-taking-a-big-bet-on-the-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/471290605297872896)
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luxagraf barnabywalters: thank you
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luxagraf So I think I've got the basics of h-entry ready, but if anyone has a minute to look over this demo page, I'd be grateful for any feedback: http://demo.luxagraf.net/2013/may/29/oysterman-wanted/
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luxagraf Oh and then my archives are also h-entryified: http://demo.luxagraf.net/writing/
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cweiske TemplateSyntaxError at /blog/comments/post/
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cweiske Invalid block tag: 'trans', expected 'endblock'
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cweiske luxagraf,
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cweiske when sending "comment" with empty content
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barnabywalters luxagraf: check out indiewebify.me’s h-entry validator for tips: http://indiewebify.waterpigs.co.uk/validate-h-entry/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdemo.luxagraf.net%2F2013%2Fmay%2F29%2Foysterman-wanted%2F
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barnabywalters oops, wrong URL
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barnabywalters http://indiewebify.me/validate-h-entry/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdemo.luxagraf.net%2F2013%2Fmay%2F29%2Foysterman-wanted%2F
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barnabywalters luxagraf: nice use of geo
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luxagraf cweiske: yeha that code isn't working, that's going to get commented out until I decide how I want to do comments. :)
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luxagraf barnabywalters: the validator tells me to use u-url, but it's a permalink page which seems strange to me, shouldn't it just assume that the url is the url?
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barnabywalters luxagraf: it seems strange, but is useful when, for example, “social media tools” add annoying utm_source query parameters
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barnabywalters so that the “url” is actually http://demo.luxagraf.net/2013/may/29/oysterman-wanted/?utm_source=twitter&blahblahblah
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ben_thatmustbeme I think it makes sense, it what defines that it is the permalink
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luxagraf barnabywalters: hmm, good point. hadn't thought of that.
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luxagraf ben_thatmustbeme: to me the rel=permalink pattern does that more clearly, hey, maybe that's me
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ben_thatmustbeme yes, but that depends on how you got to the page
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ben_thatmustbeme if you get to the permalink from a link that doesn't have rel=permalink... how would you know
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barnabywalters luxagraf: yeah, rel=canonical does the same thing
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luxagraf barnabywalters: yeah, just noticed I'm using canonical, not permalink
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Loqi snarfed: barnabywalters left you a message 2 hours, 13 minutes ago: I think my bridgy twitter access tokens just expired, I had to reauthenticate to get responses backfeeding again — does twitter have a good way of notifying people about this, as facebook does?
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barnabywalters the advantage of having u-url as well is mainly for feed or archive pages with multiple entries on – most people also put it on permalink pages for consistency
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barnabywalters but consumers should also consume rel=canonical, so go ahead and publish that, and if it doesn’t work it’s a prod to the consumer to fix their code :)
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snarfed barnabywalters: yeah, there was a hiccough last night, i'm still investigating
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barnabywalters snarfed: cool, thanks :)
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snarfed twitter access tokens don't expire, but something definitely happened systemwide
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snarfed sorry for the trouble!
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luxagraf barnabywalters: yeah doesn't look like indiewebify.me is picking up my rel=canonical head tag
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barnabywalters luxagraf: filing an issue now :)
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barnabywalters wow the indiewebify.me issues are piling up
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barnabywalters lots of work to do there
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luxagraf thinking that i may add an input with u-url anyway
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luxagraf for easy copy paste
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luxagraf am i correct in thinking that there really is no h-* syntax for marking up a photo gallery?
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barnabywalters luxagraf: there’s no microformat vocabulary specifically for that
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barnabywalters the best thing is probably to use h-feed and h-entry, and give the h-entries u-photo properties, but no (or little) content
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luxagraf barnabywalters: what about hMedia? Never got updated to mf2 syntax it seems...
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barnabywalters when choosing what microformats vocabulary to use, the main consideration should be “how do I want people to be able to use this content”
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barnabywalters luxagraf: hMedia never really got consumed by anything
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barnabywalters so there was no compelling case to create an equivalent microformats2 vocabulary
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luxagraf barnabywalters: in the case of h-entries/u-photo wouldn't a consumer rightly consider the photo to be supplemental, rather than the actual entry?
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barnabywalters luxagraf: maybe a way around that would be to not have a content property
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barnabywalters another way around it would be to have the HTML for the photo *in* the content property
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luxagraf barnabywalters: ah, i like that better
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barnabywalters that’s what aaronpk does, e.g. http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faaronparecki.com%2Fnotes%2F2014%2F05%2F24%2F1%2Ffacesinplaces
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barnabywalters this does open up the question of what consumers should do with a photo property
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barnabywalters only show it if they’re not showing the content?
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barnabywalters it’s a similar problem with the summary property — should the summary be an excerpt from the content, or shown alongside it?
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luxagraf barnabywalters: yeah the summary example on the wiki seems to imply that it would be considered supplemental rather than an excerpt
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luxagraf which threw me at first, but then it seems like the more common use in the wild is as an excerpt
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barnabywalters luxagraf: agreed, that’s the more common usage. my current article markup doesn’t do this and it’s bothering me
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luxagraf my assumption with u-photo was that it would be considered similarly tangential/supplemental but maybe I'm wrong
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barnabywalters luxagraf: real-world usage is the only way to figure out what actually works best
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barnabywalters so go ahead and mark up galleries with whatever makes sense
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barnabywalters you’re on the cutting edge ;)
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luxagraf ha. well, I'm not aware of any consumers for photo galleries so there probably isn't much point right now anyway
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luxagraf I'm just in a metadataforallthethings kind of mode right now
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barnabywalters luxagraf: if you add h-feed h-entry markup then anything which can consume notes can consume your photos
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barnabywalters e.g. show them in a feed reader, or in reply contexts
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luxagraf barnabywalters: the problem is I don't currently have permalinks for the photos, just galleries of photos
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luxagraf barnabywalters: still working out how to move away from my flickr-to-personal site workflow and what I want to do with my photos in the end
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barnabywalters luxagraf: cool! personal photo storage and publishing is still very much unsolved and open for experimentation
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barnabywalters aaronpk has made a bunch of progress
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barnabywalters he has experience both with personal backups of flickr and cross-posting instagram photos
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luxagraf barnabywalters: I have the backend solved, just working out the frontend, particularly how to handle private photos/galleries meant only for friends/family
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bnvk snarfed is bridgy rebooting / or having issues today?
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barnabywalters luxagraf: yeah, access control is another big challenge
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snarfed bnvk: yeah, sorry
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bnvk ah ok
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bnvk hehe
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snarfed bnvk: what symptoms are you seeing specifically?
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snarfed your twitter account seems more or less ok: https://www.brid.gy/twitter/brennannovak
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bnvk now it seems to be ok
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bnvk went about 9 mins without picking up a reply to a post and was making webmention 404
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snarfed 9m is expected, it only polls every 15m or so
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snarfed https://www.brid.gy/about#realtime
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snarfed but 404s for sources, yeah. last night was rough. sorry!
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bnvk ah okie, noted :)
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aaronpk speaking of photos, I now have a real use case and prototype of publishing sort of mini albums of photos
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aaronpk ( unrelated, server graph from the wiki page being on hackernews last night: https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3794/14097021017_d02507f7fb_o.png )
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snarfed nice!
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aaronpk re: photos, I've been using the Narrative clip the past couple weeks and experimenting with what sorts of things look good from it and how to publish them
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aaronpk the photos aren't super high quality, and definitely don't work well in low light, but bike rides are fun!
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aaronpk https://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronpk/sets/72157644461719279/
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aaronpk so now I want to publish little notes with small thumbnails instead of large photos like my current ones
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@kevinmarks “From “take my data” to “let me take my data”” @scottros http://www.wordyard.com/2014/05/27/the-wordyard-project-being-ourselves-in-a-post-social-world/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/471311385972858880)
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@Nymble_Me RT @kevinmarks: “From “take my data” to “let me take my data”” @scottros http://www.wordyard.com/2014/05/27/the-wordyard-project-being-ourselves-in-a-post-social-world/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/471312090339102722)
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@kevinbeynon Good overview of 'social' now. RT @kevinmarks “From “take my data” to “let me take my data”” @scottros http://www.wordyard.com/2014/05/27/the-wordyard-project-being-ourselves-in-a-post-social-world/ … #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/471312377015959552)
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@dariusdunlap The Indie Web gains momentum. Known is now a full-time gig for its founders: http://werd.io/2014/known-taking-a-big-bet-on-the-indieweb — Congratulations, guys! (twitter.com/_/status/471313401340112896)
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kylewm https question -- if i use an indiewebcamp cert for now does that make it any harder to switch to a 'real' one later?
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petermolnar !tell aaronpk
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petermolnar indieauth whishlist: make indieauth play nice with htttps only ( http redirects to https ) sites, because logging in currently stalls unless https://domain.com is entered instead of domain.com
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@ray RT @T Twitter @Safety vulnerability! If cell service @ATT, REMOVE phone# in profile @x @j compromised http://indiewebcamp.com/File:2014-05-21-twitter-j-compromised.png … ttk.me t4WB1 (twitter.com/_/status/471314593802104833)
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Loqi tantek: benwerd left you a message on 5/26 at 7:14pm: Remember the simple profile code commit that inspired work to begin on Idno, a year or two ago? Some communities move faster than others (check the names) ... http://blog.elgg.org/pg/blog/matt/read/241/elgg-190rc1-released
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kylewm love that Rasmus Lerdorf is in that list^
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tantek !tell benwerd - whoa - does that mean they actually took part of our profile code commits in Elgg 1.9?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@butwait RT @kevinmarks: “From “take my data” to “let me take my data”” @scottros http://www.wordyard.com/2014/05/27/the-wordyard-project-being-ourselves-in-a-post-social-world/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/471318762776711168)
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tommorris oh, look, twitter makes their platform spammier: http://tech.firstpost.com/news-analysis/twitter-experiment-soon-you-could-be-attaching-videos-to-your-tweets-with-a-hashtag-224450.html
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@cryptodragon I want to build a POSSE (https://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE) system to give people more tools to do this. Part of a scheme for better comms tools. (twitter.com/_/status/471319445856456704)
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dariusdunlap kylewm: Not sure what you mean by “an indiewebcamp cert”, but changing to a new cert is just the same as installing a new one. It’s a complex sequence, but not difficult. I recommend ssls.com, who resell certs from multiple providers and have a 5-year cert for $25 total. (Plus all the fancier, more expensive ones like wildcards and such)
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dariusdunlap kyl
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dariusdunlap kylewm: The process for generating a Certificate Signing Request (CSR) and installing the cert differs a bit by hosting company or platform. One of my domains is real straightforward, but the other involves sending a support request for the CSR.
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dariusdunlap Sorry if you know all this.
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dariusdunlap ;-)
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kylewm dariusdunlap: thanks! I did not, total ssl novice :)
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aaronpk ssls.com looks interesting! $5/yr is not bad
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aaronpk although at this point i'm just getting everything from startssl.com cause it's free
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dariusdunlap Yeah, I did the math and decided it was cheaper than wildcard certs.
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aaronpk dariusdunlap: and I think kylewm was talking about this: https://ssl.pin13.net/indiewebcamp/
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dariusdunlap I think I’ll try startssl.com for some of my extra domains and subdomains.
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dariusdunlap Ah, I hadn’t seen that!
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bnvk aaronpk: a collation of the social media message archiving as per the day https://mailpile.pagekite.me:8080/p/Open_Message_Format
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aaronpk I use it to generate ssl certs for *.dev for testing stuff locally with ssl
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dariusdunlap A lot of my certs over the years have been self-generated. Which works fine if it’s just for your personal OpenVPN certs, wprdpress admin panel certs and stuff like that.
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aaronpk dariusdunlap: yeah this indiewebcamp authority is similar to self-signed, but you won't see any browser warnings at all if you install the root cert
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dariusdunlap These cheap (and FREE!) certificate authority certs were a real revelation!
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aaronpk so it's slightly better than using self-signed certs
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aaronpk bnvk: nice!
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aaronpk bnvk: no notes about html format?
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bnvk oddly, the format that seems simplest for human readability + a standard + ease of implementing is email…
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bnvk IMHO
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aaronpk yeah the email format is quite tempting actually, especially cause it's easier to add other metadata than the IRC txt format
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bnvk yah
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dariusdunlap At one point I was fairly organized and had done the same thing… basically set up my own private cert authority and installed the root cert on my computers (and my wife’s)
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aaronpk bnvk: can I add the HTML format I'm using for my text messages?
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bnvk and the big gain is it can imported into any standard mail client and it should thread conversations and replicate that experience the best
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bnvk aaronpk: that would be great :)
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bnvk also, I wanna make this export tool standalone that can export in multiple formats, so no reason we can't do HTML at some point!
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tommorris needs to HTTPS all the things at some point.
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aaronpk bnvk: are you pretty well settled on the one-file-per-month format?
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bnvk well, the thinking with Mbox is that it is 1 file (per conversation) which contains multiple messages
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aaronpk right, except for mbox
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bnvk so I was thinking 1 file per conversation
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aaronpk ah
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aaronpk "conversation" becomes harder to define with a long-running thread like SMS
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bnvk yes
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bnvk Facebook API has some threshold cutoff of segmenting
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aaronpk I split mine up into files by month regardless of whether it's part of the same "conversation"
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bnvk ah
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bnvk well that is tricky
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aaronpk I didn't see any benefit to try to guess conversations from the SMS threads
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bnvk yah, SMS might be harder
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bnvk I think Facebooks is date based- they try to detch abonormally long gaps and then group them that way
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aaronpk it would get several of my conversations wrong then :)
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aaronpk bnvk: ok added a chunk about HTML, also added some notes to the TXT section
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 38 minutes ago: - whoa - does that mean they actually took part of our profile code commits in Elgg 1.9?
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barnabywalters twitter are having a “syndication hangout” https://plus.google.com/events/cv3es9au1erf7p1333lvjeg1j28
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bnvk aaronpk: nice, checkin it out now… looks pretty good!
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barnabywalters I’ve never heard twitter talk about syndication in their marketing
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@katelosse That statement in my last tweet squares with all of my vibes lately: #indieweb doesn't feel past anymore, it feels like the next thing. (twitter.com/_/status/471328311763685376)
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@cryptodragon @netcrusher88 There is also the inverse to POSSE, PESOS (http://indiewebcamp.com/PESOS) (twitter.com/_/status/471329953615974400)
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bnvk aaron: if you're bored and want to Facebook message me a sticker or an image that would be rad
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aaronpk ha sure
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bnvk I don't have any… that I can see what it exports
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kylewm.com edited /https (+138) "/* Level 2 security */ added myself!" (view diff)
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kylewm thanks for help setting that up dariusdunlap, aaronpk ^
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bnvk thanks
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aaronpk whoa fb messenger does sound too
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aaronpk there should be location attached to mine too, see if that shows up
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bnvk sweet
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bnvk worth getting that metadata if it's there
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aaronpk another easy thing to add to the html :)
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bnvk true
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bnvk In other news, it seems webmtion.io started sending multiple URL's in author.url object with a space between them
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bnvk "author":{"name":"Bastian Allgeier","url":"http://bastianallgeier.com " target="_blank">https://twitter.com/bastianallgeier"}
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bnvk is that meant to be an array?
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aaronpk that is odd, what URL is that from?
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bnvk https://webmention.io/api/mentions?jsonp=jQuery17108376354516949505_1401209113368&target=https%3A%2F%2Fbrennannovak.com%2Fnotes%2F448&_=1401209113586
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aaronpk yeah looks like something is concatting it to a string along the way
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aaronpk crap
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Loqi lolz
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bnvk hey, be nice Loqi
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Loqi dude
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aaronpk ok I hacked it real quick to only return the first url
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aaronpk it won't change the past ones tho
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bnvk ncie
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bnvk damn it, stupid Fbook API makes no mention of images or location data in messages
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bnvk I bet if I queried the individual comment I get the data
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aaronpk I see images in the API, they come through as attachments
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bnvk you do?
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aaronpk this is just the call to "me?fields=id,name,conversations"
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aaronpk I don't really know how this stuff works :)
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bnvk yah i'm hitting "/inbox" to get all the messages
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aaronpk oh weird
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JonathanNeal Is there an IRC channel you folks like for discussing accessibility?
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GWG JonathanNeal: As in for individuals who are visually impaired?
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GWG I know a guy you might want to speak to.
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JonathanNeal A place to discuss building websites that are accessible.
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bnvk oh wow, that is such different data in that endpoint you used Aaron
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk facebookapi--
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Loqi facebookapi has -1 karma
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JonathanNeal For everybody. For people who are eating pizza and can’t use the mouse, for people who are using JAWS or NVDA or VoiceOver.
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aaronpk bnvk: also see: /me/conversations
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GWG JonathanNeal: Not sure. There are a lot of rooms on this network
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bnvk aaronpk: whoa that /me/conversations has a lot more data than /me/inbox and actually looks like Email
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bnvk and has the pictures
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bnvk very nice
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@ImranNashir RT @HNTweets: Site Deaths: http://indiewebcamp.com/site_deaths Comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7803057 (twitter.com/_/status/471337673156993025)
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bnvk this is great stuff
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aaronpk sweet
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snarfed aaronpk: just as a data point, here's an example of how i've done mini albums embedded in posts: https://snarfed.org/2012-07-02_sailing_the_greek_cyclades
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snarfed no mf2 markup, but design wise it works ok, and they're stored structured internally so i can surface them elsewhere, e.g. https://snarfed.org/pictures
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aaronpk snarfed: thanks!
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aaronpk what happened to the album page?
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aaronparecki.com edited /album (+93) (view diff)
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snarfed album page?
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aaronparecki.com edited /album (+125) "dfn" (view diff)
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GWG aaronpk: Then what is a gallery?
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Loqi A gallery is a deliberately curated set of photos, that may itself be a post, or an archive view, or potentially dynamically created via tags http://indiewebcamp.com/gallery
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GWG I had this conversation with tantek.
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aaronpk hmm
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aaronpk I'm used to the flickr terminology, where an album is a collection of photos, and a gallery is a collection of albums
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aaronpk er sorry that's "collection". a gallery is a collection of photos from other people. I never understood that but ok
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aaronpk maybe gallery and album are the same thing
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aaronpk except that you don't have galleries of music
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GWG aaronpk: Check the logs
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GWG I thought a gallery was a collection of photos and an album was a collection of galleries.
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GWG Either way...
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GWG I want a collection of photos at some point
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Loqi gives GWG a collection of photos at some point
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GWG But part of me considered the idea a collection of photos is merely an archive of photo h-entries.
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aaronpk that's how I was planning on doing it
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aaronpk or for my mini album thing, a bunch of u-photos inside one h-entry
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GWG aaronpk: You and I are on the same page.
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GWG I just have to load enough photos onto the site to write the feature
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GWG aaronpk: I've been watching your site. You post photos regularly.
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aaronpk I do, but I don't consider those part of a collection
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aaronpk those are more like photo notes
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luxagraf RE https turns out arcgisonline offers an https version, which means my last mixed-content problem is solved pure https here i come
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GWG aaronpk: Yes, but would you display photo notes as a photo collection?
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aaronpk luxagraf: whoa! just noticed you have a nice map here! http://luxagraf.net/map/
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luxagraf hey thanks. there are others on the photo galleries (each photo has a map popup). those are still google maps though, changing that today
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aaronpk GWG: no I don't think I will. part of what finally let me start publishing photos on my site at all was allowing myself to publish "photo notes" rather than full albums
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bret I want to do a checkin map like that
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aaronpk once I dropped the idea of needing to support photos like I do on flickr it became much easier to solve
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luxagraf aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 473 karma
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luxagraf once i realized i no longer needed flickr to be a bridge pretty much everything else fell into place
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GWG I'm storing my family photos at Smugmug right now.
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GWG My parents can't join my POSSE
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luxagraf bret: like mine?
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bret luxagraf yeah totally!
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bret looks great
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GWG I instead only post photos I want public to my actual site.
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luxagraf bret: thanks. i use leaflet http://leafletjs.com/, with leaflet-providers https://github.com/leaflet-extras/leaflet-providers to load the fancy tiles
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bret I have played with that before*
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aaronpk oh yeah we put the arcgis tiles into leaflet-providers
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bret just a matter of time
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bret :D
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luxagraf bret: if you hit any snags let me know i'll try to help (I'm no expert though)
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luxagraf aaronpk: yup. just had to change one line from http to https
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bret I'm not sure how to really approach it quite yet
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bret if I should do a separate program or generate some kind of json file with jekyll
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luxagraf bret: I would go with a json output file from jekyll myself. just add a couple custom yaml tags for lat/lon and then loop through all your posts and write those a json file.
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bret also not sure if I want to make a separate set of files for locations or have them pegged to notes
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GWG Can I ask you all some more basic location questions?
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bret I'm eyeing a secondary post folder that keeps track of uninteresting things like likes, and possibly checkins and keep those out of my main stream
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bret GWG just ask!
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luxagraf GWG: sure
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GWG If I want to add location support to my notes and other data types, what forms should that take?
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GWG What services do people use for that sort of thing?
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GWG And considering I rarely want people to know my exact address...
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GWG How do I set parameters
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luxagraf GWG: re: services
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luxagraf at the moment I use geodjango which handles a lot of the dirty work for me and allows my admin interface to just present a map that I can drop pins on
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bret I'm not really sure exactly, but I would look at others who have done something close to what you want
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aaronpk I publish my current location on my site to two decimals of precision
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aaronpk and I reverse geocode to a city name for a lot of the location on posts, so you'll see things like "Portland, OR" on notes and stuff
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luxagraf GWG: However for the photos solution I'm building I'm leaning toward reverse geocoding using http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/
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GWG I use PHP though, not Python.
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GWG aaronpk: Do you share the coordinates?
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aaronpk GWG: not yet, still trying to figure out how to do that in a not crazy way
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GWG aaronpk: But you store them in your database?
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aaronpk yes
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luxagraf I publish very accurate location data on my site and hide in my bunker
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@kevinmarks “Facebook started noticing that its users were marking lots of auto-posted stories as spam.” http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/27/5754862/facebook-gives-up-on-automatically-sharing-everything-you-do-online-open-graph #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/471351241763590145)
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luxagraf Actually I used to use flickr's geofencing feature to limit geodata close to my house, so i suppose i'll need to replicate that somehow
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GWG aaronpk: I would if I was at an event...such as Indiewebcamp, but not places I don't want people to know about.
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aaronpk yea makes sense
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aaronpk but in that case I usually publish a venue specifically, rather than just lat/lng
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GWG aaronpk: How do you get your location?
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GWG It sounds like I might as well just put in a text box.
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aaronpk this app runs all the time and sends it to my server every couple minutes https://github.com/esripdx/Offline-Logger-iOS
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GWG There an Android version?
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luxagraf GWG: you use wordpress? something like this might work: http://www.wpgeo.com/
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aaronpk heh, no
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GWG aaronpk: Darn
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aaronpk but there's probably 100 existing apps that you could use on android
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aaronpk 90 of which probably suck :P
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GWG aaronpk: Generally low opinion of the OS?
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aaronpk maybe :)
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aaronpk I had an android at one point
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GWG aaronpk: It has gotten better since the G1 days
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aaronpk mine was an HTC Evo 4G
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aaronpk http://www.androidspin.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/htc-evo-4g1.jpg
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snarfed GWG: just fyi, wordpress already has geolocation support built in, and the android app can send it automatically
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snarfed it might require an extra plugin to display though. finding...
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luxagraf It seems the general consensus is that StartSSL is the way to go for free https... is that what people here are using?
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snarfed luxagraf: often yes
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aaronpk i am
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snarfed what is https?
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Loqi HTTPS is an abbreviation for Hypertext Transfer Protocol Secure, a protocol for secure communication, supported by web servers (like Apache & nginx) and browsers http://indiewebcamp.com/https
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GWG aaronpk: It was not the finest hour.
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GWG snarfed: I usually use the desktop.
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GWG I use startssl
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luxagraf They don't seem to do wildcards certs for free i see
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aaronpk well you have to pay to verify your identity, but then you can do free wildcard certs all day long
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aaronpk all year long actually
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luxagraf aaronpk: wait so the $60 is to verify ident and the certifcate is free? i didn't catch that. interesting business model.
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GWG I just created multiple single domain certificates.
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GWG I don't need much
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GWG snarfed: As for geolocation on Wordpress, on my list to look into
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GWG I just wanted to see what people were thinking about location in general for these sorts ofsites
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luxagraf GWG: i need subdomains though, so I can't do multiple certs
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GWG luxagraf: What is your site again?
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GWG Never mind, looked it up
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luxagraf GWG: sorry, busy going through the Labyrinth of StartSSL http://luxagraf.net
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cweiske are there any alternatives to startssl? (free as in beer certificates and included in browsers)
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luxagraf cweiske: not that i found. a few reasonably cheap ones < $20 tho
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GWG cweiske: Not that I know of.
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GWG luxagraf: There's a hole in your boat
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wakest.info rmation edited /site-deaths (+47) "/* Unknown Year */" (view diff)
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cweiske does someone know if known supports private posts that only logged-in users can read?
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cweiske benward, ?
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cweiske yes, it does
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luxagraf GWG: yeah, seen better days :)
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GWG luxagraf: Doesn't really tell me who you are
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@alizardx RT @katelosse: That statement in my last tweet squares with all of my vibes lately: #indieweb doesn't feel past anymore, it feels like the … (twitter.com/_/status/471384364593721344)
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luxagraf GWG: the site you mean?
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GWG Yes
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luxagraf GWG: hmm, yeah, i dunno. guess i never really considered that part important.
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GWG luxagraf: I don't know who I am either.
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GWG I had a lot of trouble writing a bio sentence
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GWG And I still hate it
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GWG Let me rephrase that.
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luxagraf GWG: i am just some guy. more interested in the writing than describing myself.
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GWG I don't know who I am in the context of a website about page
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GWG luxagraf: I like to try and get a sense of people.
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luxagraf i have to create bios when working with publishers so i sorta relish not having one on my own site
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luxagraf GWG: yeah, i do to, unless it's me we're trying to get a sense of :-)
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GWG luxagraf: You want to help me figure out who I am?
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KartikPrabhu aah the "my description" problem... good luck
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GWG KartikPrabhu: You've been talking to me for a bit. Who am I?
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GWG In the broader sense.
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kylewm.com edited /POSSE_to_Facebook (+312) "/* Mention Tagging */ add link to article about de-emphasized OpenGraph posts" (view diff)
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I believe this is where we started our conversations.
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bear laughs at him trying to keep up with the flow in this channel
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bear everytime I come back to here there is 300+ new items :)
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KartikPrabhu bear: you should sign up to "this week in Indieweb" newsletter
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luxagraf GWG: I actually think having someone else write your bio is a good idea.
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KartikPrabhu ask aaronpk to add you^^
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bear KartikPrabhu i have my own - I log everything and re-read them when I get time
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KartikPrabhu GWG: I don't know really. we have talked about code a lot, but I don't assume that is who you are...
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GWG luxagraf: You volunteering?
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GWG KartikPrabhu: We'll meet soon enough.
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KartikPrabhu GWG: yes. but still we'll be meeting in the same context... not fair to use that as a bio
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kylewm aaronpk++ for eliminating duplicate Loqi mentions for the same post!
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Loqi aaronpk has 474 karma
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kylewm if i'm reading the logs right
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kylewm aaronpk: also, does indieauth.com can't read https://kylewm.com since i'm using a self-signed certificate... does that kinda defeat the purpose of having https?
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KevinMarks trading bio writing is a really good idea
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aaronpk kylewm: yeah for anything public you should get a real certificate, not use self-signed or the indiewebcamp ones
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KartikPrabhu is pretty bad at bio writing
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kylewm doh, it's not exactly public but i get your meaning
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aaronpk well if anybody besides computers under your direct control plan to access the https version of your site it's public
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aaronpk (and yes, I hopefuly eliminated duplicate mentions from the irc logs)
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aaronpk (either that or I eliminated all mentions...)
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kylewm lol
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petermolnar.eu edited /https (+389) "/* Level 5 security */" (view diff)
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petermolnar.eu edited /https (+229) "/* Level 4 security */" (view diff)
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@IndieCreddit RT @katelosse: That statement in my last tweet squares with all of my vibes lately: #indieweb doesn't feel past anymore, it feels like the … (twitter.com/_/status/471396084418244608)
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@Johannes_Ernst Great post on what's wrong with the net. http://idlewords.com/bt14.htm #indieweb #indiebox http://upon2020.com/banter/?p=223 (twitter.com/_/status/471400485899890691)
aboynejames, j12t, tantek, barnabywalters and luxagraf joined the channel
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@benwerd RT @katelosse: That statement in my last tweet squares with all of my vibes lately: #indieweb doesn't feel past anymore, it feels like the … (twitter.com/_/status/471405866810224641)
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@Johannes_Ernst RT @katelosse: That statement in my last tweet squares with all of my vibes lately: #indieweb doesn't feel past anymore, it feels like the … (twitter.com/_/status/471405984955777024)
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@indieboxproject RT @katelosse: That statement in my last tweet squares with all of my vibes lately: #indieweb doesn't feel past anymore, it feels like the … (twitter.com/_/status/471406050407903233)
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GWG KevinMarks: I think writing yours would be more work than writing mine.
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GWG Then again, someone did. You have a wikipedia page
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tallpaul MadLibs: ___ was born in ____, the offspring of a ___ and a ___, Formerly a ___, they currently work as ___. When not working they like to___ and ___. Their favorite things are___, ___and ___. They dislike ___ with a passion.
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GWG tallpaul: I can't see your username without thinking of the Sherman Brother's song.
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tallpaul Chitty Chitty Bangbang?
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tallpaul (Actually I didn't know about the song)
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GWG tallpaul: Do you now?
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GWG I'm sure it is on Youtube or such
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tallpaul I just looked at thier wikipedia page
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GWG I'm a longstanding Sherman Brothers fan
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tallpaul I'm from the UK originally. There are a lot of DJ's ther named Tall Paul, though Im' not one of them, though I was a DJ.
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GWG tallpaul: Where do you call home now?
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tallpaul Portland, OR
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GWG Ah, a Indiecamp Wester
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tallpaul yeah
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GWG tallpaul: What is your site?
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GWG I don't see you on IRC_People
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tallpaul paulmunday.net
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rascul you are a python!
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barnabywalters tallpaul: btw, there’s a problem with the Python link :)
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tallpaul yes I just saw
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tallpaul a dyslexic python
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KartikPrabhu python's can't type because no hands!
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KartikPrabhu this is where tantek kicks us out to #indiechat
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tantek pops up
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rascul hides
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tallpaul is hiding under his desk from the dyslexic python
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GWG tantek: Do you have any indiewebcamp bio writing advice?
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tantek gets distracted by the recent tragic news about UCSB.
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GWG tantek: What happened?
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KartikPrabhu GWG: see #indiechat
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tantek GWG - what do you mean by "indiewebcamp bio writing advice" - like for your User: page?
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I think GWG means for the "about me" page...
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GWG tantek: I was trying to figure out what one says about oneself.
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GWG Example "My name is Tantek. I work on open web standards and the indie web. I code, design, run, climb, and fight for the users."
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KartikPrabhu GWG: a useful thing I have found is to use verbs... as in "I do so and so..."
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KartikPrabhu allows you to be very broad and I think more complete
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GWG "My name is Kartik and I work in physics?"
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KartikPrabhu GWG: my "bio" is here https://kartikprabhu.com/about#me
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GWG KartikPrabhu: What do I do?
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tantek GWG, KartikPrabhu that kind of microcopy is actually quite hard to write!
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GWG tantek: Thus my problem
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KartikPrabhu yes I know... I went through a lot of awkward iterations
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tantek GWG - want to start a stub here: http://indiewebcamp.com/about perhaps with what you see as good "IndieWeb Examples" ?
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KartikPrabhu agree with that idea
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tantek and then perhaps an "FAQ" section with the question you point out? let's at least capture what you pointed out so far - I'll try to follow-up asynchronously
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tantek s/question/questions
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Loqi tantek meant to say: and then perhaps an "FAQ" section with the questions you point out? let's at least capture what you pointed out so far - I'll try to follow-up asynchronously
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GWG I will make a note to do that
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tantek this is a good "post about the indie web" http://www.wordyard.com/2014/05/27/the-wordyard-project-being-ourselves-in-a-post-social-world/
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tantek also, @katelosse's recent tweets are spot-on
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KartikPrabhu GWG: for more inspiration: http://trentwalton.com/info/ http://markboulton.co.uk/about http://adactio.com/about/myself/
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KartikPrabhu tantek: that is a neat post...
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luxagraf is there some magical tool that parses irc logs and find just the things I said? so I can go do all the wiki edits I said I would make but maybe forgot about.
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snarfed luxagraf: do you need a tool? a simple search in the browser should work, right?
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luxagraf snarfed: but over several weeks at once?
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snarfed ah. you could maybe construct the right google site search (start with search in the log pages, then mess with inurl: or the time controls)
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pdurbin it's called "grep" :) ... if you have the logs handy :)
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snarfed yup, fallback is what pdurbin said, w/logs from your client
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luxagraf ha. yeah. I've been using irssi for a few weeks now, haven't needed to RTFM yet, but I will.
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