#indiewebcamp 2014-05-29

2014-05-29 UTC
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aaronpk !tell barnabywalters we just booked tickets to Iceland for the weekend of Dec 5!
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 6 hours, 55 minutes ago: do you remember which microformats meetup at 21st Amendment that you first came to years ago?
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Loqi aaronpk: lionzan left you a message 6 hours, 53 minutes ago: I made it! your code works within S3 (but still very rough way of doing things mine)
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 6 hours, 40 minutes ago: looks like maybe 2009-09-23? http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2009-09-23-weekly-dinner-sf looks like upcoming.org isn't redirecting event permalinks to archive.org URLs yet, but when it does: http://upcoming.org/event/4521748/
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aaronpk Uh oh
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 2 hours, 30 minutes ago: when did you start using a cert from a trusted CA on your own site? Do you remember when you got the cert / installed it / made sure it worked for https://aaronparekci.com/ ?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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aaronpk tantek: yeah that sounds like tr right one
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caseorganic tantek: http://www.travelzoo.com/vacations/europe/-725-Iceland-Northern-Lights-Getaway-w-Air-Save-370-1765725/ Aaron and I booked a flight to Iceland 12/4-12/9. Join us?
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aaronpk Indiewebcamp Iceland anyone?
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caseorganic !tell benwerd tantek: http://www.travelzoo.com/vacations/europe/-725-Iceland-Northern-Lights-Getaway-w-Air-Save-370-1765725/ Aaron and I booked a flight to Iceland 12/4-12/9. Join us?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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caseorganic !untell
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caseorganic ha
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aaronpk There is no intell
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aaronpk Untell*
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caseorganic INTEL
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caseorganic If anyone wants to come to Iceland, good travel deal going on http://www.travelzoo.com/vacations/europe/-725-Iceland-Northern-Lights-Getaway-w-Air-Save-370-1765725/
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aaronpk Tantek: looks like I started using the real ssl cert on 2013-11-10
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GWG aaronpk: You and caseorganic are going to see barnabywalters?
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Loqi [mention] http://jasonwoj.com/posse-tools-in-wordpress/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (webmention)
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tantek.com edited /https (-1) "/* Level 3 security */ aaronpk 2013-11-10" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (+23) "/* IndieWebCamp */ next id" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /apprentice (+734) "dfn, change headings, encourage Homebrew Website Club participation" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /apprentice (+69) "/* For Creators */ at most one apprentice per creator per indiewebcamp" (view diff)
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tantek what is an apprentice?
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Loqi An apprentice, in the context of the indieweb, is an IndieWebCamp participant who has not yet setup a personal domain with IndieAuth, but is passionate about owning their identity & data on the web and dedicated to doing so, with the help of a creator http://indiewebcamp.com/apprentice
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tantek.com edited /about (+153) "dfn, home page" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /about (+9) "link home page" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /home_page (+35) "see also about, icon" (view diff)
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GWG tantek has been busy
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tantek.com created /about_page (+19) "r" (view diff)
caseorganic, fmarier, iangreenleaf, lukebrooker, paulcp, squeakytoy2, hidgw, nloadholtes, erinjo, eschnou, tantek, squeakytoy and brianloveswords joined the channel
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/469959390078832640/755070 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/https#Level_2_security (webmention)
LauraJ, squeakytoy2, jonnybarnes, nloadholtes, squeakytoy, jjuran_, glennjones, tpinto, petermolnar, friedcell, BjornW, npdoty, alistair, bnvk and eschnou joined the channel
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jonnybarnes is aaronpk there?
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jonnybarnes anyone else having issues with indieauth? it says there are nor rel=me links on http://jonnybarnes.net/
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jonnybarnes there clearly are: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjonnybarnes.net%2F
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jonnybarnes interistingly indieauth.com (or should I say Ruby on 173.230.155.197) is making a HEAD request when its trying to scan for rel=me links
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jonnybarnes am I meant to have rel=me info in the headers?
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jonnybarnes I like pin13.net's User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh
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jonnybarnes Intel Mac OS X 10_8_2) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/29.0.1547.57 Safari/537.36
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jonnybarnes I just dont understand why a HEAD request is being made
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jonnybarnes and my server is sending a 200 response back
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jonnybarnes so presumably somethings borked
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jonnybarnes !tell aaronpk I can't get indieauth.com to find my rel="me" links on my homepage, any idea what's going wrong?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu jonnybarnes: It seems to be working when I put http://jonnybarnes.net/ in the IndieAuth box
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KartikPrabhu of course I can't authenticate as you but it is finding the rel=me links
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jonnybarnes weird, its working now
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jonnybarnes wow, facebook isnt an approved authentication providor
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KartikPrabhu i think facebook doesn't shoe rel=me on the link back to your website or something of that nature
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KartikPrabhu see: http://indiewebcamp.com/Facebook#rel-me
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Loqi barnabywalters: aaronpk left you a message 11 hours, 21 minutes ago: we just booked tickets to Iceland for the weekend of Dec 5!
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barnabywalters !tell aaronpk yay! marked in my calendar, looking forward to seeing you both!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [mention] http://www.wordyard.com/2014/05/29/wordyard-project-nuts-and-bolts-what-ill-do-and-how-ill-support-it/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (webmention)
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GWG Good morning
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pdurbin GWG: good morning
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GWG Good morning, pdurbin
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GWG What indiewebish things are you up to today?
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pdurbin dunno if this d3 visualization I worked on over the weekend counts: Connectors (nicks) between IRC channels - http://irc.greptilian.com
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GWG Nice though
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pdurbin thanks. I'm just learning about d3 but I like it a lot
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ellton hello guys!
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GWG Helo, ellton
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ellton I liked a lot indieweb principles
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ellton but im felling alone in Brazil
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ellton doyou know someone following this principles here in Brazil?
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GWG No. But ask tantek, he seems to get around. Maybe he'll stop by.
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ellton GWG: thanks. as i said, i'm a newbie
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GWG Well, different country or not, most people here are helpful.
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ellton i have a question: can i use web sign-in on corporate sites like gmail or facebook?
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GWG You mean Indieauth?
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kylewm ellton: you can use indieauth as your OpenID provider on sites that support OpenID, but no not facebook/google
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ellton kylewm: if someday they support openid...
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Loqi lionzan: kylewm left you a message on 5/28 at 11:44am: small tip on the microformats markup on your site -- if you move the author image inside your h-card, parsers will be able to pick it up
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lionzan msg kylewm thx! I thought that having in my sidebar h-card was enough, but of course it is not related to the post! I'm going tro make the change :)
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lionzan tell kylewm not so clear how to include it without showing it in the HTML...
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kylewm lionzan: actually you're right, the sidebar h-card is enough if you don't have one associated directly with the post
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lionzan good! but how come my img does not appear in the webmentions anyway?
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tantek welcome ellton! what's your personal site?
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ellton ellton.tk
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ellton i'm on step 0 yet
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ellton :P
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kylewm lionzan: the authorship algorithm looks for the h-card most closely associated with a given post. you've got <a class="p-author h-card" href="http://lionzan.me">@lionzan</a> in the h-entry, which doesn't have am image associated with it
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kylewm since your permalink pages have an h-card in the sidebar, you don't have to have one embedded in the post as well
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lionzan I see, it makes sense. how do i associate an img without showing it in the site?
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lionzan I mean, how do I put an u-photo in the post h-card without showing it on the site?
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kylewm lionzan: I use style="display:none" for the image on my permalink pages. not everyone agrees that that (hidden stuff)'s a good thing
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tantek ellton - that's a good start!
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lionzan kylewm let me try. I agree in general, but i think it makes sense to avoid having your image all over your site :)
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aaronpk lionzan: you already have your photo on each permalink in the top right corner http://lionzan.me/2013-07-17/oir-3-own-your-mailserver/
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Loqi aaronpk: jonnybarnes left you a message 3 hours, 36 minutes ago: I can't get indieauth.com to find my rel="me" links on my homepage, any idea what's going wrong?
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aaronpk so that could be your author h-card
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Loqi aaronpk: barnabywalters left you a message 2 hours, 33 minutes ago: yay! marked in my calendar, looking forward to seeing you both!
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aaronpk (looks like jonnybarnes got it working eventually?)
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rascul aaronpk popular today!
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aaronpk yesterday technically
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lionzan aaronpk, yes, but apparently it doesn't show up because it's overriden by the p-author class in the post h-entry, which doesn't have a u-photo associated
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tantek.com edited /creator (+630) "dfn, indiewebcamps, encouraged to bring an apprentice" (view diff)
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tantek ellton, go ahead and add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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lionzan it doesn't show up in the webmentions on other sites
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kylewm lionzan, simplest thing is to remove h-card from the p-author
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aaronpk !tell jonnybarnes looks like this problem was indieauth.com not properly reporting an http -> https redirect. I'm going to drop that restriction soon anyway: https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/issues/28
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek aaronpk, this is what I remember you saying at the time: http://indiewebcamp.com/Upcoming#Aaron_and_Tantek_met_via_Upcoming
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lionzan kylewm ok I'll do it!
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Loqi [mention] http://www.marcus-povey.co.uk/2014/05/29/friend-only-posts-and-openpgp-sign-in-on-a-distributed-social-network/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuth (pingback)
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aaronpk lionzan: yeah if you already have an h-card on the page then you can just use that instead of adding the new one!
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aaronpk tantek: close! but actually I found the event by searching google for the date, and ended up finding the event listed on the microformats wiki!
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lionzan aaronpk, great. I just wasn't sure if the parser would consider the site owner as the post author
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tantek really?!? I thought you'd said you just checked Upcoming in SF to see what tech events were going on that day
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tantek since when does googling dates work for the present / future?
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aaronpk since the microformats wiki was so thorough :)
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kylewm aaronpk: am i interpreting this correctly http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2013/10/13/1/realtime-indieweb-comments##WebSocket+Server to mean that you are running a node.js process on your server?
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aaronpk kylewm: yes. (but it sometimes crashes)
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GWG Is there an h-feed tester?
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kylewm silly nodejs
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aaronpk hopefully solved by: while true
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aaronpk do node server.js
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aaronpk sleep 1
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aaronpk done
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lionzan !tell voxpelli I'm using your webmentions app but I have a question. Why does the text of my post on your site is not updated to reflect changes in the original post?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm aaronpk: ha, I assume that's basically what `forever' does anyway
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tantek GWG - try the /readers
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GWG tantek: I just think I added the h-feed correctly
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tantek goes down the rabbit hold of Googling the date of that microformats meetup 2009-09-23
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tantek s/hold/hole
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Loqi tantek meant to say: goes down the rabbit hole of Googling the date of that microformats meetup 2009-09-23
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tantek and finds this gem: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2009/09/23.html
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aaronpk I believe my search terms were: 2009-09-23 meetup san francisco, but might have been "september 23, 2009" meetup san francisco
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jonnybarnes aaronpk: cool, also Im confused looking at my logs, indieauth makes a head request first, then a get request
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Loqi jonnybarnes: aaronpk left you a message 11 minutes ago: looks like this problem was indieauth.com not properly reporting an http -> https redirect. I'm going to drop that restriction soon anyway: https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/issues/28
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jonnybarnes why? surely a get request would produce the same headers
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aaronpk i'm not sure if that was intentional in this case... but I normally do that because if the HEAD request results in finding things then I don't need to download the whole page
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bnvk aaronpk: so… that message format has evolved a bit, turns out, we're going to use multipart/mime with the microformats HTML inside the text/html part :)
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kylewm bridgy sometimes uses a HEAD request to check the content-type before downloading an unknown page
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aaronpk bnvk: whoa what! is it documented on that etherpad page still?
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bnvk yah
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bnvk https://mailpile.pagekite.me:8080/p/Open_Message_Format
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bnvk at the bottom
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bnvk the attachments that you started exploring complicated things quite a bit
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GWG Okay, that Intertubes thing barnabywalters has up seems to interpret it.
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tantek.com edited /architecture_astronomy (+203) "add articles section with The Duct Tape Programmer" (view diff)
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aaronpk bnvk: will take a look later!
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ellton.tk edited /IRC_People (+50) (view diff)
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bnvk aaronpk: cool, it's a rather strange solution, but seemed to make most sense on a lot of levels
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tantek aaronpk - wouldn't it be nice if Google let you see your own search query history by timeline?
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tantek bnvk cool! what microformats are you using?
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bnvk tantek: h-entry and e-content p-name https://mailpile.pagekite.me:8080/p/Open_Message_Format
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tantek nicely done ellton!
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bnvk tantek: as well author & date related MF
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tantek bnvk - very cool!
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ellton aaronpk: done. ;-)
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snarfed tantek: https://history.google.com/history/lookup , https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/54068?hl=en&ref_topic=14148
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tantek snarfed - that's close, but I was hoping for something where it just used your existing cookie
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tantek rather than requiring some explicit on switch
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tantek since they have the data, they're just not exposing it
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tantek in a broader sense, it would be useful to be able to browse *all* the data they have collected on you that feeds into their ad systems
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snarfed tantek: actually not quite. they scrub logs after somewhere btw 6 and 18 mos, and much of the extra details stored in history they don't store at all, or only temporarily (until the log savers get to it, ie days)
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tantek ah yes, I'd heard about the log scrubbing, and that makes sense
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snarfed re ad targeting, agreed. there is something that shows your demographic and psycographic buckets, but only high level. should be searchable
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voxpelli lionzan: my webmentions endpoint doesn't yet support updating the contents a mention
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Loqi voxpelli: lionzan left you a message 21 minutes ago: I'm using your webmentions app but I have a question. Why does the text of my post on your site is not updated to reflect changes in the original post?
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lionzan I see, no prob, just to make sure it wasn't me doing sthg wrong
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lionzan thx!
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tantek.com edited /Google (+2117) "add section on Search, Google Web History, move Aaronpk and Tantek meeting to Search subsection since aaronpk says he used Google Search to find the microformats meetup!" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Upcoming () "(-1241) apparently Upcoming was not how aaronpk found the microformats meetup but rather [[Google]] Search!" (view diff)
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@blacklightllc Millennials more aware of digital information collected and tracked by companies #ownyourdata @JohnM_Haddad: ‘Your Data Trumps Big Data’ (twitter.com/_/status/472032506221318144)
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@blacklightllc Millennials more aware of digital information collected and tracked by companies #ownyourdata @JohnM_Haddad: http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2014/05/your-data-trumps-big-data-an-infographic-for-optimizing-marketing-for-millennials.html (twitter.com/_/status/472033188450402304)
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tantek that's kind of a messed up infographic
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tantek who thinks like that?!?
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tantek hey https experts - I briefly saw the mixed-mode warning triangle on https Twitter profiles - what would cause that?
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tantek in other news, Twitter seems to have switched everyone over to the "new" profile page (the one that looks like a FB profile page). I never switched mine over manually.
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tantek should've taken a screenshot
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KartikPrabhu yuck! horrible "inforgraphic"
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luxagraf speaking of https experts :) anybody know why nginx would fail to report TLSv1.2 support: https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=images.luxagraf.net
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luxagraf and yes it is most definitely compiled with latest version of openssl and the config seems right
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Loqi benwerd: caseorganic left you a message on 5/28 at 5:32pm: tantek: http://www.travelzoo.com/vacations/europe/-725-Iceland-Northern-Lights-Getaway-w-Air-Save-370-1765725/ Aaron and I booked a flight to Iceland 12/4-12/9. Join us?
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luxagraf tantek: wasn't seeing new profile and then i remember that i had done this: http://craigmod.com/satellite/twitter_for_minimalists/ still (mostly) seems to work if anyone dislikes the new version
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benwerd is going to the UK in December, seriously wondering about hopping there from Iceland
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@benwerd Friend-only posts and OpenPGP auth on a distributed social web, from @mapkyca: https://www.marcus-povey.co.uk/2014/05/29/friend-only-posts-and-openpgp-sign-in-on-a-distributed-social-network/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/472041398582013953)
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kylewm luxagraf: do you have a line like this in your nginx config? "ssl_protocols SSLv3 TLSv1 TLSv1.1 TLSv1.2;"
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luxagraf kylewm: that's exactly what i have in there
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luxagraf kylewm: and this morning i recompiled it and explicit set the path to openssl source files
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jonnybarnes luxagraf: openssl doesn't get the correct certificate: http://pastebin.com/NqdjqmBM
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luxagraf jonnybarnes: ah. hmm. that's odd.
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snarfed hey benwerd! any word from rockit?
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benwerd snarfed! no - good nudge. I'll follow up right now
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snarfed thanks!
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jonnybarnes luxagraf: you still there?
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tallpaul benward: you know Icelandic Air allows free stopovers on thier flights to the UK?
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GWG tallpaul: Are they unlimited stopovers?
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GWG What does their Cat. 8 say?
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tallpaul From what I recall when I flew it might be return leg only but you can stop over a cople of nights at least
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ben_thatmustbeme GWG: ding ding ding sding ding ding
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ben_thatmustbeme oh, thats a fox
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ben_thatmustbeme sorry
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: I'm confused.
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ben_thatmustbeme GWG, stupid meme, ignore me
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luxagraf jonnybarnes: yeah
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jonnybarnes so I'm getting somewhere
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jonnybarnes just checking, once SSL is sorted, Im currently being given a 403 response by images.luxagraf.net
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jonnybarnes is that right
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luxagraf jonnybarnes: still trying to make sense of that error message
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luxagraf that was one attempt. should work now though
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jonnybarnes take a look at https://gist.github.com/jonnybarnes/57c6b2d914057e0060e6
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jonnybarnes thats getting the right certificate
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luxagraf jonnybarnes: oh well there's no indexes allowed so it 403s
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jonnybarnes cool right
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jonnybarnes so when I tried to connect using just TLSv1.2 I got this error
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jonnybarnes 140735088419680:error:1408F10B:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:wrong version number:s3_pkt.c:337
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kylewm snarfed: hiya, any guess about the rogue comma at the bottom of this reply? seems to be between two u-mentions https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/facebook/12802152/10100899177468069/10100899177468069_10100899201674559
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luxagraf jonnybarnes: yeah it seems like, despite compiling with openssl 1.0.1e, nginx can't use v1.1 or v1.2 for some reason
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GWG luxagraf: I think it will get there
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snarfed kylewm: looking
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snarfed probably a bug introduced by the upstreamDuplicates changes
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luxagraf jonnybarnes: that's still getting error:num=20:unable to get local issuer certificate
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snarfed kylewm: filing in github, thanks for the report
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kylewm snarfed: sure thing
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jonnybarnes thats an s_client thing, unlike a fully fledged web browser it can't get and verify intermediate certifiactes on the fly
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luxagraf jonnybarnes: ah, okay. I'm still getting the git.luxagraf.net cert for some reason when I run it.
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jonnybarnes are you adding the -servername parameter?
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GWG snarfed: I'm looking at your issues.
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snarfed misinterprets that, for a laugh
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GWG I saw one I had a suggestion for
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jonnybarnes luxagraf: can you ssh into your server?
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luxagraf yes
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jonnybarnes what do you see when you run which openssl
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jonnybarnes and is that the path that nginx is compiled against?
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Loqi [mention] http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4WKH1d/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/distributed-indieauth (webmention)
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luxagraf jonnybarnes: usr/bin/openssl and no that's not because my understanding was nginx wanted the source files, not the binary
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luxagraf jonnybarnes: make had no errors when compiling and it definitely grabbed a lot of openssl related .h files
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GWG snarfed: Is there such a thing as a send-reply-to tag?
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snarfed (context for the channel: GWG is thinking about handling front page webmentions by redirecting them to another page)
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snarfed GWG: not that i know of. we could make one up as rel-alternate, like some people do now for h-feed pages
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GWG snarfed: But, the idea makes sense, I think.
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snarfed fair warning though, i'm not really an mf2 person, and what i just said may be wrong or make no sense
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snarfed maybe!
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GWG I meant, identifying if a webmention isn't directed at a specific page on a site, redirect
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GWG That part of it is bigger than Bridgy
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jonnybarnes luxagraf: if you're using openssl s_client, you can add the opstion -CAfile /path/to/cacert.pem
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snarfed definitely
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jonnybarnes I grabbed the file from http://curl.haxx.se/ca/cacert.pem
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jonnybarnes that gets rid of the error about verifying the certificate
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GWG snarfed: I wonder if this is, in the short term, an issue filed against the webmention plugin for Wordpress
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snarfed GWG: actually i think the use case and proposal aren't clear enough yet
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snarfed i'd start with the use case(s)
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GWG snarfed: Question is, where is the right forum to explain the use cases?
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GWG Article? Here?
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GWG I'm new at that type of discussion.
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snarfed home page mentions are very rare right now. jeena, known, maybe gRegor` and aaronpk support them, not sure of who else, afaik mostly for http://indiewebcamp.com/messaging
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snarfed GWG: either!
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luxagraf jonnybarnes: nice. thank you.
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GWG For now... Use Case
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snarfed i'd start by looking at the current usages
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GWG luxagraf over there likes snarfed.org. You don't want to clutter your home page noting how many people liked the site overall....so you want to shunt that to a secondary page
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GWG That would be using like as sort of an 'endorsement.'
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snarfed sure! that's one use case
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snarfed messaging is another
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luxagraf jonnybarnes: using that i can confirm what ssllabs was tell me, TLSv1.1 and TLSv1.2 don't work
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GWG Yes. But are people interested in messaging over webmentions?
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jonnybarnes luxagraf: best I can say is its either a problem with nginx/openssl or with your conf file then
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snarfed GWG: some are! and have already done it, http://indiewebcamp.com/indieweb-messaging
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luxagraf jonnybarnes: yeah i think nginx and openssl are not talking for some reason. thanks for the help though
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GWG snarfed: Interesting
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GWG Lots in that wiki
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: GWG: displaying received mentions is different from the page actually receiving mentions. You can get a mention to your homepage but display it elsewhere without having some rel stuff
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KartikPrabhu or maybe I am misunderstanding the use case
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I thought of that point, that it can be configured on the server.
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KartikPrabhu yeah
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GWG But when you look at the messaging case, there is a case for the server to say where the messaging endpoint is.
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KartikPrabhu not really. you are messaging the person who is represented by the homepage
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GWG Okay.
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KartikPrabhu so you should send the mention to the homepage. the person may display it in some other messaging page but that is upto the person
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KartikPrabhu screenshot 100 people in IRC!
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GWG Then the discussion falls back, for me, to incorporating the idea of into the software I use, which means discussion with its creator
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KartikPrabhu GWG: at least that is my take on this... other may disagree :)
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GWG Well, I may just comment on what snarfed said.
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GWG https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention/issues/22
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KartikPrabhu GWG: yes it might be a problem with how to do this on Wordpress which I am not really familiar with
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GWG I think, in the interim of the big picture, I have a temporary suggestion for the Wordpress implementation I think is worth discussing.
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JonathanNeal For those using SVGs and supporting IE, we can ask IE about using external sources with <use> by tweeting to @IEDevChat or using #AskIE https://twitter.com/IEDevChat/with_replies (reference: http://css-tricks.com/svg-use-external-source/)
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KartikPrabhu <must not reply with IE snark... abort>
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: Well, they are listening, so I figure if folks are expressing interest, it helps.
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: I know the intentions are good, hence the snark abort :)
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GWG Hello, tantek
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tantek hello GWG
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@kartik_prabhu @neilhimself @carnegiehall June 27 might clash with potential @indiewebcamp meetup :( #firstworldproblems (twitter.com/_/status/472072346551853057)
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KartikPrabhu oh forgot that this got pinged here! :D
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tantek realizes there's both a /homepage and /home_page that he's contibuted to. :/
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: does quill automatically log me out eveytime or just not save my session?
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tantek well, Wikipedia redirects their /homepage to /home_page so by default we can do the same.
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GWG tantek: Webmentions to the homepage....your thoughts?
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tantek GWG hence I brought up /home_page. And pretty sure I've documented a bunch of use-cases somewhere on the wiki
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tantek short summary off the top of my head
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tantek 1) mentions of people in posts (e.g. like twitter @-mentions), 2) private messaging, 3) event /invitations
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: it's probably not saving your session properly. I thought I set the cookie expiration to like 10 years but maybe I didn't do something right
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GWG Yes. But, should they be considered webmentions to the site as a whole or the homepage as a single unit?
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GWG That's the protocol question
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: so technically it should not ask me for a login everytime?
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aaronpk yeah
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KartikPrabhu hmm it seems to do so. does that not happen to you?
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: there's also an "add to home screen" bookmark which you can put on your phone or in a browser bookmarks bar
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tantek GWG - what's the difference? I don't understand from a use-case perspective
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tantek hmm - looks like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_page is ripe for a rewrite
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: hmm neat
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aaronpk hm it is logging me out too. will have to fix that.
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: also happy to report Quill seems to work nicely with both slug and in reply to :D
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aaronpk hooray!
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KartikPrabhu tantek: did you note 100 people in IRC?
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tantek whoa
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@ShaneHudson RT @benwerd: Friend-only posts and OpenPGP auth on a distributed social web, from @mapkyca: https://www.marcus-povey.co.uk/2014/05/29/friend-only-posts-and-openpgp-sign-in-on-a-distributed-social-network/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/472075395664445440)
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@ShaneHudson RT @kevinmarks: A kickstarter to bring Reading Rainbow to everyone on the web: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/readingrainbow/bring-reading-rainbow-back-for-every-child-everywh #indieweb https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/471744474763501568/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/472075660408934401)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I see 102 currently
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KartikPrabhu there was 103 momentarily
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tantek KartikPrabhu: could you create the pages for HWC 2014-06-04 and 2014-06-18? Both are at Location TBD in SF BTW. Thanks!
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tantek clickable new page links here: http://indiewebcamp.com/events
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KartikPrabhu tantek: this presumably is the same as previous ones right?
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tantek except for note about Location TBD in SF
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tantek definitely start from http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club since quiet writing hour was new & popular (I think there was demand to do it again)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: is there no Portland meeting for those days?
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tantek aaronpk, dietrich ^^^ either of you hosting/avail for HWC 2014-06-04 2014-06-18?
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tantek KartikPrabhu: assume ESRIPDX unless aaronpk says otherwise or dietrich says MozPDX
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kartikprabhu.com created /events/2014-06-04-homebrew-website-club (+2395) "new page" (view diff)
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kartikprabhu.com created /events/2014-06-18-homebrew-website-club (+2395) "new page for 2014-06-18" (view diff)
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kartikprabhu.com edited /Events (-25) "/* Upcoming */ 2014-06-18 location TBD in SF" (view diff)
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luxagraf meh, i guess level 4 https will have to do
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bret I could probrably make it to hwc next week
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bnvk is there a preferred MF value for things like tags or is that just rel="tag" ?
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bnvk and what about unique content id pertaining to where a piece of content comes from (e.g. Facebook, Twitter) ?
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snarfed bnvk: bridgy generates tag uris based on silo ids and uses those as mf2 uids
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bnvk ah interesting
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snarfed e.g. tag:facebook.com,2013:200590280142030_rsvp_1216101 in https://brid-gy.appspot.com/rsvp/facebook/212038/200590280142030/1216101
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bnvk cool
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bnvk thanks, snarfed
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aaronpk yep next week at esripdx is good!
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barnabywalters !tell bnvk RE microformats tagging and IDs, “p-category” and “u-uid” sound like what you’re after
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG barnabywalters: Hello
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barnabywalters greetings GWG
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GWG barnabywalters: That feed reader of yours...it wouldn't work if didn't set up my h-feed? Or it would? I can't find an h-feed tester
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barnabywalters it’s a bit clumsy, but you can test h-feeds by going to http://waterpigs.co.uk/intertubes/new/, dragging a “fetch posts” module onto the canvas, and putting your URL in
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GWG barnabywalters: THat is what I did
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GWG But I also have an RSS feed
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barnabywalters GWG: and what happens?
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GWG How do I know it is using the h-fed
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GWG feed
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GWG It seems to work
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barnabywalters GWG: that tool doesn’t consume RSS, so if it works then your h-feed is good!
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barnabywalters my new feed reader will probably consume RSS/ATOM as well as h-feed, as there is so much of it out there
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barnabywalters first checking for microformats2, then falling back to feed files if they exist
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aaronpk i just had a hilarious idea. twittify.io/aaronparecki.com -> parse my h-feed and h-card and present a page that looks like twitter but from data on my website
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barnabywalters aaronpk: as well as being hilarious, it would be an awesome way of testing homepages!
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GWG I need to add it to the Wordpress archive.php file next, but I think I've got this.
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barnabywalters especially with some simple common error checking and suggestions
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aaronpk twitterfy.me
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GWG SO, what can I add next that will mess it up again?
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barnabywalters GWG: is that a rhetorical question? :)
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GWG A little
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GWG barnabywalters: I may try Location next
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GWG I can rephrase
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GWG What new features can I add next?
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aaronpk wonders what it would take to implement these API methods on a server so that I could use the wordpress mobile app to post to my own non-wordpress site http://codex.wordpress.org/XML-RPC_WordPress_API
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GWG aaronpk: Look at the new JSON REST API that is going to replace it.
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aaronpk is that official?
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GWG aaronpk: The API is now official. Tentatively scheduled into 4.1
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aaronpk this one? https://github.com/WP-API/WP-API
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GWG http://wptavern.com/json-rest-api-slated-for-wordpress-4-1-release
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aaronpk oh wow that was yesterday
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aaronpk how long until the mobile apps use it tho?
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aaronpk I don't want to *use* the wordpress API, I want to emulate it so that I can use the apps
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GWG aaronpk: I'm saying that I'm betting it will come not too long in the future
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GWG The JSON thing is way overdue
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GWG XMLRPC is a bad protocol
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aaronpk darn, that means I should probably wait
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GWG aaronpk: It is old and not wonderfully secure or flexible.
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GWG The day they activate the JSON API, I'm disabling the XMLRPC system if they don't.
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aaronpk is there any talk about updating the mobile apps yet?
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GWG It looks like it might already support it
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GWG The API is in Jetpack
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GWG http://jetpack.me/support/json-api/
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aaronpk but does the wordpress ios app speak json right now? do you understand what i'm trying to do?
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snarfed aaronpk: i bet it does, since wp.com doesn't support the xmlrpc api, and i'm sure the ios app supports wp.com
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aaronpk huh, funny
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snarfed (same w/the android app)
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@thedatahive Can today’s #IndieWeb innovators bridge the knowledge gap for the rest of us? http://datahiveconsulting.com/2014/04/10/indiewebify-me-and-the-knowledge-gap/ (twitter.com/_/status/472113948142362625)
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@Museyapp @erinjoway and @benwerd sharing about #indieweb & @known. #ownyourowndata @mattervc awesome #shareout https://twitter.com/Museyapp/status/472119750927974401/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/472119750927974401)
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@Museyapp @erinjo and @benwerd sharing about #indieweb & @known. #ownyourowndata @mattervc awesome #shareout https://twitter.com/Museyapp/status/472120161290297344/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/472120161290297344)
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@aaronpk @mapkyca You should take a look at the latest work I've been doing with #IndieAuth which is essentially a way to... http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/05/29/1/indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/472122117937324032)
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/05/29/1/indieauth linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/login-brainstorming (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/05/29/1/indieauth linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Category:IndieAuth (webmention)
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tantek can @thedatahive say something new about the IndieWeb instead of tweeting their same article?
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aaronpk I know, I always get excited that they may have something new to say when I see those tweets, then realize it's the same article again and again
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ben_thatmustbeme That would involve actually writing another article. Remember, repeating your tweets over and over again makes them better. Right?
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@benwerd RT @Museyapp: @erinjo and @benwerd sharing about #indieweb & @known. #ownyourowndata @mattervc awesome #shareout https://twitter.com/Museyapp/status/472120161290297344/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/472123734602428416)
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tantek aaronpk, he didn't even bother to incorporate your @-reply about /generations
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tantek https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/465247041078034432
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@aaronpk @thedatahive We're working on it ;-) http://indiewebcamp.com/generations (http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/05/10/1/indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/465247041078034432)
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KartikPrabhu this seems to be some strange vapour-site
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aaronpk they're a consulting company i think. not vapour, just not a product.
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KartikPrabhu hmm <shrug>
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aaronpk benwerd: so when do we get to add Known to http://indiewebcamp.com/business-models ?
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benwerd aaronpk: heh, soon ;)
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aaronpk also j12t!
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benwerd we're still at a kind of requirements gathering stage
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j12t We’ll get there … not yet
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aaronpk is eager :)
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benwerd so many use cases for ownership in particular, which of course we're going to wrap up into something we can share back to the community
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benwerd (while being aware of privacy etc)
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tantek benwerd, that's a great photo of you and erinjo presenting! love it.
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aaronpk interesting, this company is ditching passwords completely, and instead you sign in via a link sent to your email http://blog.shopittome.com/2014/05/29/bye-bye-passwords/
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benwerd tantek: thanks! I'm glad they took it - just a shame the slide wasn't the one with the indiewebcamp group in the background :)
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benwerd aaronpk: packagr does that too, and I've seen it elsewhere
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benwerd I feel squicky about it
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aaronpk most services have a password reset feature via email which is essentially the same thing
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tantek yeah because email services are never compromisd
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aaronpk I think the fact that companies are doing this is more of an acknowledgement of how terrible password databases are and recognizing that people want to sign in with their own already-existing identity
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aaronpk it just so happens that right now the only way to actually do that and still continue to have a service people can use, you have to use email
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aaronpk I did find it interesting that they explicitly called out not using facebook login as a benefit
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tantek yes, that is interesting, though note they kept it explicitly as an option
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tantek so given that UI, why not do Persona discovery first? and then fallback to 1-click link in email?
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aaronpk has anybody demonstrated persona login for an ios app?
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tantek aaronpk - it works
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tantek btw that blog's comment form / setup is busted
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aaronpk i'm sure it does, i've just never seen it
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tantek I tried to leave a comment
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tantek and it said:
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tantek "Click back and type in the correct password. (Spam Free Wordpress)"
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tantek (there is no password)
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aaronpk heh... yeah
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aaronpk https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7818584
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tantek and I don't know what Spam Free Wordpress [sic] is
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aaronpk (specifically: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7818720)
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tantek haha nice
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aaronpk ok bye for now! giving a talk in 15 minutes on the indieweb for quantified self + connected home devices! :)
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aaronpk slides will be on http://aaronparecki.com/presentations shortly
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j12t mention Apple getting into the market reportedly
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j12t no indie there
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snarfed break a leg aaronpk!
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tantek aaronpk woot!
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Loqi :D
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aaronpk future URL is http://aaronparecki.com/presentations/2014/05/29/1/awe-2014
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mowens.com created /User:Mowens.com (+16) "Created page with "Michael K. Owens"" (view diff)
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tantek very nice mko! now add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people :)
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mowens.com edited /IRC_People (+52) (view diff)
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mko @tantek: done
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tantek nice :D
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KartikPrabhu mko: small nit, you might want to do have background: no-repeat on the search icon
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mko @KartikPrabhu: That's a relatively abandoned version of the site from over a year ago. Thanks for the feedback, though.
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KartikPrabhu aah np... I thought you had missed it accidently
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paulmunday.net edited /User:Paulmunday.net (+104) (view diff)
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mko I'm launching a new version soonish. It's one of the reasons I'm actually updating my identity links.
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KartikPrabhu nice!
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@katelosse @scottros really enjoying reading your thoughts on the indieweb. I'm having many similar thoughts-- looking forward to seeing where it goes (twitter.com/_/status/472136514613555202)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/t/469959390078832640/472135741405814784 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/https#Level_2_security (webmention)
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snarfed "linked to,"
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snarfed nice
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snarfed new bridgy markup is working
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GWG snarfed: What new markup?
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kylewm snarfed++ that's fannncy!
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Loqi snarfed has 28 karma
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snarfed GWG: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/154
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snarfed thanks kylewm!
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GWG snarfed: Would the presence of dupe rel-syndication links be an issue for Bridgy?
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@indiecomputing Time for #indie computing - no more sharecropping on other people's clouds http://indiecomputing.com/c/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/472142333090091008)
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snarfed GWG: i don't think so
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snarfed you mean, two different posts that have rel-syndication links pointing to the same silo post?
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snarfed that would be odd but should work ok
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snarfed and a post that has two rel-syndication links to different silo posts is definitely ok and expected
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GWG snarfed: I meant the same post that has two rel-syndication links to the same silo post
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snarfed ah, got it, a literal dupe
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snarfed should be fine
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snarfed happy to have it tested though!
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GWG I have the Twitter icon with link in two places on the page
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GWG How?
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GWG http://david.shanske.com/articles/2014/05/26/semantic-comments-user-testing/
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GWG It's on all my pages now
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snarfed sure!
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snarfed has bridgy sent you a response since you've had that dupe link?
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snarfed that'll be the test :P
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snarfed (and thanks for asking!)
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GWG snarfed: I don't think so.
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GWG snarfed: But bear in mind, I need more people to comment
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snarfed easy to try, i'll go like one of your possed tweets
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GWG Recognizing you have already
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GWG I moderate, so I'll eliminate any dupes you do
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snarfed ah, you're thinking it might send you two webmentions
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snarfed i think it won't, but maybe
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snarfed that is allowed in the webmention spec, though. used for updating and deleting
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snarfed anyway. favorited your most recent possed tweet. feel free to hit the poll now button on https://www.brid.gy/twitter/dshanske
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GWG snarfed: I meant...you liked it from snarfed
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snarfed aha right
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GWG You don't want five pictures of you there, do you?
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snarfed :P not the biggest problem in the world
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GWG Not coming
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GWG snarfed: Wonder why Bridgy doesn't see it
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pauloppenheim !tell aaronpk ahh! i haven't been to AWE since it was ARE, good luck on the talk
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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snarfed GWG: hmm. check the log? the "polled X minutes ago" link
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GWG Doesn't show it
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snarfed yeah, it hasn't seen the new favorite yet. i hit the poll button again, maybe this time
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snarfed i'll look in a min
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GWG snarfed: I hope it isn't me
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GWG Of course then it means its your code.
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GWG Which I hope not
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GWG So....I have mixed feelings
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snarfed heh. don't worry! not a big deal either way.
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snarfed it hasn't seen the twitter favorite at all yet, so it's not even fetching your site to begin with
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snarfed it would log if it was
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Loqi bnvk: barnabywalters left you a message 3 hours, 24 minutes ago: RE microformats tagging and IDs, “p-category” and “u-uid” sound like what you’re after
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kylewm aaronpk: tiny suggestion, i'd like it if the default font on the IRC logs was 'monospace' instead of 'courier'
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rascul courier is eww
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KartikPrabhu Q: if resources like CSS are sent gzipped by the server is it still useful to minify them?
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rascul i never compared, but i doubt there would be much a difference
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rascul compare size of gzipped and minified to just gzipped
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rascul also, often you can skip on the fly compression by the web server and store it gzipped
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KartikPrabhu i figure that the gzip takes care of the "spaces and nextline stuff" also it is easier to debug if not minified
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rascul indeed
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j12t Should there be a page on the wiki that lists “indie companies” aka companies that build products / services specifically focused on this?
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tantek j12t I suppose if there's enough pages for such companies, we can create collections for them
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tantek especially if there is an emergent pattern
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j12t also, people who might be willing to do some consulting helping somebody / some company to go indie
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j12t just made up a new phrase, how do you like it?
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j12t :-)
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tantek sure, consulting seems like a good business model - did you check /business_models to see if it's on there?
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j12t use case: i’m Dan#2, I write, I read what Dan did with his blog, and I’d like to do the same. Who do I call who will sit down with me and make me successful?
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j12t in this use case, I’m not looking for a business model, but for a phone number
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tantek j12t - you call indiewebcamp.com/discuss
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tantek which brings you here
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tantek and you start asking questions
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j12t if I’m really geeky, sure, nobody else will do irc
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GWG tantek: I'm still trying to figure out multi-author sites
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KartikPrabhu j12t: really? there will be people willing to have an indieweb blog but not click on a link for IRC?
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j12t yes, I would think about 100 times as many
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KartikPrabhu <shrugs>
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tantek j12t - that's why all you have to do is click web links to participate here
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tantek and people with an indieweb blog are comfortable clicking web links and participating in an online forum
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j12t this is not how people buy stuff. they aren’t looking to talk in my use case, they are looking to hire
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j12t just a suggestion, i think there’s a use case here that’s important, but then, YMMV.
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KartikPrabhu is confused. has this hiring thing happened once already?
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j12t counter-question: can it currently happen?
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KartikPrabhu maybe. maybe not
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tantek j12t usually people looking to hire are looking to talk first
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tantek j12t - if it's an important use-case, do you know of any concrete examples? can you point to any blog posts that illustrate your important use-case?
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j12t ahm. but not to the same people.
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tantek this is sound a bit hypothetical
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tantek s/sound/sounding
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Loqi tantek meant to say: this is sounding a bit hypothetical