#indiewebcamp 2014-06-02

2014-06-02 UTC
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: got it. it did see that favorite, it just didn't send it to that note on your site
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KartikPrabhu yeah. the posse-post-discovery seems to not be working
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: this is nothing urgent. I'll poke around a bit too
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snarfed np, understood. i wonder if it fetched and parsed that note before you added the syndication links. it doesn't really handle updated posts very well
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snarfed gotta run, but that's my best guess. thanks for looking. kylewm may have more ideas too!
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KartikPrabhu sure thing!
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tantek KartikPrabhu: looks to me like I faved it still: https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/473184238515535873
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@kartik_prabhu “…I’m really, really enjoying it. It feels good.” — @adactio on posting notes on his own website. http://adactio.com/journal/6826/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/473184238515535873)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: doesn't show me your avatar as it usually would
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KartikPrabhu tantek: we should take screenshots. this is some bug in Twitter
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KartikPrabhu wow! there are 3 favs on that and I still don't see it on the tweet main page!
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kartik_prabhu/469303851695108097/11628 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014 (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kartik_prabhu/469303851695108097/19090770 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014 (webmention)
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kylewm hi KartikPrabhu, Ryan's guess was correct, bridgy has saved that particular tweet in its DB as not having a backlink
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KartikPrabhu aah I see. I think bridgy is just too fast at polling it before I add the syndication links
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kylewm I think that one was from before you had the rel='feed' link at the top
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kylewm so when it saw that first interaction, it didn't find an antecedent for the post
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KartikPrabhu I agree about the "going to NYC one" but the latest one should have been detected
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tantek looks like it's about time I updated /note to have explicit Why and IndieWeb Examples sections at the top just like many other pages already do
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/sandbox (+34) "/* Template:expense-row testing */" (view diff)
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: trying to favorite the most recent tweet
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kylewm hmm, still not finding the rel-feed for some reason..
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: snarfed: oh interesting, you have rel=feed on an <a> instead of a <link>
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tantek.com created /favorites (+22) "r" (view diff)
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kylewm we need to support that
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kylewm based on https://code.google.com/p/doctype-mirror/wiki/RelFeedAttribute
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tantek.com created /retweets (+21) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /retweet (+146) "stub" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /retweet (+11) "dfn" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /tweet (+139) "stub" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /note (+1367) "Why section for notes" (view diff)
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tantek Those of you that implement posting notes on your own website, could you review http://indiewebcamp.com/notes#Why and see if it covers the reasons you do so? If you post notes on your own website for other reasons, please add them or say so here!
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tantek !tell barnabywalters I noticed that your Trovebox/openphoto install appears to be behaving better but still shows no photos at your links e.g.: http://photos.waterpigs.co.uk/photos/tags-note/list
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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kylewm tantek: LGTM, editability and length are the big ones for me
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tantek kylewm cool. Those were just what I came up with off the top of my head :)
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tantek in that case it's time for IndieWeb examples
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GWG tantek: I find posting on my site can be more work, and I need to work on that
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tantek like your UI for posting?
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tantek (and yes, I have the same problem - posting on my own site *is* more work)
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GWG tantek: Well my UI is the Wordpress one. Which is pretty good, but I haven't customized it for what I do as much as I'd like.
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tantek WordPress UI is certainly quite clunky for just posting notes.
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GWG tantek: It is more that I'm doing a lot of things I'd like to automate
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tantek and replies
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GWG tantek: What would be a good UI for notes, replies, etc?
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GWG tantek: In your opinion?
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tantek I have some sketches but nothing built to illustrate
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tantek I'd say check out what aaronpk and benwerd have built
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tantek I think there may even be some screenshots on the wiki of those
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tantek.com edited /note (+9) "indieweb" (view diff)
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GWG The link to examples comes up blank
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GWG But, in the Wordpress side, there is a built in solution to that
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GWG Custom Post Types
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: oh! yes rel=feed on <a> must be supported :)
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GWG tantek: That is why I asked. I've thought of customizing the UI
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tantek GWG - those are examples of what notes look like
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tantek the examples of posting UIs are elsewhere
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tantek check /create
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tantek hmm, looks like /POSSE has a good set of IndieWeb Examples of note publishing. will verify and copy from there.
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GWG tantek: Thoughts on hierarchical categories vs tags, which lack a hierarchy?
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GWG I see the interface
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tantek tags
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KartikPrabhu tags++
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Loqi tags has 1 karma
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GWG I have the hardest time picking tags
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KartikPrabhu tags are easier to pick than categories
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GWG KartikPrabhu: A lot of people misuse them in my experience
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KartikPrabhu categories force some weird heirarchy, while tags are more flexible
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I think they make sense for Articles, but not for Notes
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KartikPrabhu I don't see why categories are any better for Notes
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I said for Articles.
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KartikPrabhu oh even there.
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GWG Having a strict organization for long-form makes more sense than short form
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KartikPrabhu yes. but I don't see why categories for Articles are better than tags for Articles
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GWG KartikPrabhu: The issue I have with tags is people create too many of them
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GWG Sometimes duplicative ones.
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KartikPrabhu auto suggest solves that
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GWG Yes
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GWG But I'm talking about behavior
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KartikPrabhu behaviour of?
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GWG Users?
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KartikPrabhu why Users could also duplicate categories if they don't know that one already exists
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GWG I hate sites that can't keep their categories under control either
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KartikPrabhu well so I don't see how categories help anything versus tags
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GWG Well, I rarely use them on some sites I've maintained, more on others
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GWG I use them in lieu of custom content types.
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GWG Which is a usage of convenience.
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GWG So, it is a way to simplify implementation, but makes usage harder
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KartikPrabhu yeah I have seen wordpress users use categories as post types. It is a neat hack, but a hac nonetheless
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I've used other CMSes than Wordpress, and seen similar 'crimes'.
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KartikPrabhu hmm
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GWG But I want to solve that problem for myself
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KartikPrabhu yeah... tags + auto suggest seems to me as the best solution
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tantek hashtags have made it easier all around
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yes. But they don't necessarily prevent duplication of tags. For instanct #hashtag and #hashtags
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tantek KartikPrabhu: different implementations handle plural/singular differentiation/combination differently. Perhaps worth documenting.
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tantek And for your own site, just program it to do what you think it should do, and document it!
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@wavis Hey @kevinmarks did you see the blog post for that? http://www.wavis.org/the-wavlog/content-server-in-14-lines-of-bash #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/473288992243187712)
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tantek.com edited /create (+197) "add aaronpk p3k example from 2012-09-09" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Yahoo (+53) "Silos Flickr and Tumblr" (view diff)
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tantek bnvk - just noticed that your first note on brennannovak.com was from 2010 - well done :)
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bnvk tantek: :)
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tantek bnvk++ for owning his own notes since 2010-07-17.
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Loqi bnvk has 3 karma
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bnvk hehe
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tantek.com edited /Federated_Social_Web_Summit (+85) "/* Portland 2010 */ note exact date 2010-07-18 with citation" (view diff)
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tantek bnvk - your first indie note was posted the *day* before FSWS2010 even!
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bnvk whoa, really?
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tantek.com edited /Yahoo (+94) "more date info and citations for dead silos" (view diff)
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tantek bnvk, amazing coincidence
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@kevinmarks RT @wavis: Hey @kevinmarks did you see the blog post for that? http://www.wavis.org/the-wavlog/content-server-in-14-lines-of-bash #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/473318659142582272)
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GWG !tell snarfed May have another Bridgy problem. It takes a few moments for the rel-syndication links to appear on my page, and as a result, Bridgy has decided a response isn't connected to anything.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi snarfed: GWG left you a message 3 minutes ago: May have another Bridgy problem. It takes a few moments for the rel-syndication links to appear on my page, and as a result, Bridgy has decided a response isn't connected to anything.
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snarfed GWG: yup, KartikPrabhu saw the same thing. looks like he and kylewm have been thinking about it
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GWG snarfed: What about adding a...recheck this to the specific recent response entry in the web interface?
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snarfed sure, could be a temporary workaround…but really we should make it Just Work
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GWG snarfed: Agreed on the point.
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GWG I've been posting some photos to get enough to implement and test an idea I ha
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GWG had
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snarfed nice!
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GWG I had to take a bus tour to get some pictures
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andicascadesf Hey guys. I won’t be able to make it to Wednesday’s meetup – I have a speaking engagement. But loved the last meetup + blogging hours. Can’t wait for the next one!
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/chloeweil/470602560886161408/221429335 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Guest_List (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/chloeweil/470602560886161408/11628 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Guest_List (webmention)
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Loqi [@charlesroper] Inspiring work from @adactio
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Loqi #indieweb in action: http://adactio.com/journal/6826/ (http://twtr.io/myL98gYQxb)
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@kevinmarks @sarahjebner blogger and wordpress can both cope with your own domain. See http://indiewebcamp.com/Blogger and http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress for how (twitter.com/_/status/473401579408986112)
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@kevinmarks @sarahjebner if you want a broader discussion on #indieweb topics, let me know (twitter.com/_/status/473401699001180160)
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@kevinmarks @sarahjebner http://indiewebcamp.com/why is a collection of thoughts on the value of having your own domain. (twitter.com/_/status/473402624029372416)
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KevinMarks_ (Sarah Ebner writes for the London Times and I've known her since we were small children - she's smart and listens to reason. talk to her: https://twitter.com/sarahjebner/status/473397788680916992 )
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@sarahjebner Clever people, how important would you say it is for a blog to have its own domain rather than blogspot/wordpress. Or either of those fine? (twitter.com/_/status/473397788680916992)
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Loqi [mention] https://petermolnar.eu/blog/indieweb-decentralize-web-centralizing/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://petermolnar.eu/blog/indieweb-decentralize-web-centralizing/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/silo (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://petermolnar.eu/blog/indieweb-decentralize-web-centralizing/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://tumblr.petermolnar.eu/post/87584009266 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://tumblr.petermolnar.eu/post/87584009266 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/silo (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://tumblr.petermolnar.eu/post/87584009266 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://petermolnar.eu/blog/indieweb-decentralize-web-centralizing-ourselves/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://petermolnar.eu/blog/indieweb-decentralize-web-centralizing-ourselves/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/silo (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://petermolnar.eu/blog/indieweb-decentralize-web-centralizing-ourselves/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (webmention)
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petermolnar shit
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petermolnar sorry for the noise
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Loqi lolz
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@kevinmarks @sarahjebner we have a page for that too: http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started - the IRC is full of helpful people #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/473405524583911424)
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KevinMarks_ thats OK petermolnar - rich linking is useful
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petermolnar yeah, but I corrected a typo and it all got webmentioned again :)
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petermolnar hm
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petermolnar which makes me think that the wordpress webmention plugin needs the following:
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petermolnar - have a postmeta with the array of links in the post and the webmention status already sent or not to avoid duplicated like this
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petermolnar any opinions on this?
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KevinMarks_ seems reasonable, especially if it checks the received status.
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Loqi barnabywalters: tantek left you a message 10 hours, 43 minutes ago: I noticed that your Trovebox/openphoto install appears to be behaving better but still shows no photos at your links e.g.: http://photos.waterpigs.co.uk/photos/tags-note/list
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barnabywalters !tell tantek RE openphoto, indeed, I managed to get the server-side portion of it working, but it relies on js for logging in (persona) and gallery pages, and there is a javascript bug I’m not sure I can be bothered to track down
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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petermolnar !tell pfefferle wordpress-webmention needs to save which sites were already notified to prevent new mentions on post update, can I help coding it?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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pfefferle petermolar: this is a feature… the plugin should ping all links on every update so they can update the mention
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Loqi pfefferle: petermolnar left you a message 1 minute ago: wordpress-webmention needs to save which sites were already notified to prevent new mentions on post update, can I help coding it?
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pfefferle the latest version (on github) should handle updates very well
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pfefferle on server and client side
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petermolnar it makes sense
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petermolnar I'd still at least put in a button, like in the wiki as "this is a minor change" to prevent re-sending the mentions on typo/grammar corrections, etc.
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pfefferle but why not… the mention on the other side shouldn’t have typos as well :)
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pfefferle the latest version of the plugin send the pings asynchron, so it might be that not every change will be pinged, but only the latest...
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petermolnar you have a point, but I still believe there are scenarios where you want to prevent a re-mention
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cweiske but shouldn't the clients figure out that it's an update?
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barnabywalters petermolnar: in this particular case I’d say it’s up to Loqi to decide whether or not to re-notify
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barnabywalters cweiske is right, it’s up to the clients
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petermolnar I haven't thought about that approach, good point
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GWG pfefferle: By the way, thanks for the latest hook
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pfefferle your welcome :)
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pfefferle you’re welcome :)
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pfefferle does it work for you?
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kylewm GWG: just saw your question from last night about rel syndication. how long after posting does it take for the syndication links to appear on your site?
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GWG I have to sit down and set things up
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GWG kylewm: Well, automating it is on my list. The problem is the non-syndicated version gets cached until the update comes in. It could be a few minutes
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GWG I suggested a stopgap measure of a refresh button on the user page.
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kylewm OK yeah it could be a problem if you get a like or comment be
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GWG I got a bunch. None came over
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GWG And the likes/comments came in hours later
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kylewm fore the syndication links are present. would still expect that to be unusual with bridgys polling cycle
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kylewm traveling for work this week but I'll take a look soon
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GWG pfefferle: The reason I haven't gotten to working on the hooks is that I realized a lot of what I did in April when I wrote my theme isn't working in practical use
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GWG I used the Post Format system rather than the Custom Post Type system
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GWG And I wanted to use Post Types, but I was trying to make things less complicated
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pfefferle I ran into similar problems with post formats and post types :)
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kylewm GWG: can you point me to a syndicated post that should have backfed comments?
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@TechnicALicia #OwnYourData #hdpalooza (twitter.com/_/status/473459675678396418)
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GWG kylewm: Yes, I can. Look at the Bridgy Facebook user page for me. Several there
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GWG http://david.shanske.com/notes/2014/06/02/biltmore-hotel/
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GWG http://david.shanske.com/notes/2014/06/02/venetian-pool/
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GWG These
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GWG http://david.shanske.com/notes/2014/06/02/manatee-zone/
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GWG Was trying to set up for some photo styling tests
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GWG pfefferle: What did you end up deciding?
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pfefferle GWG I meant it took me some time to learn about the differences and the advantages and disadvantages of both formats
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pfefferle I try to use mostly post formats
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GWG How do you have it set up on the backend?
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GWG I'm having trouble because the Wordpress UI isn't set up for some of the conventions
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GWG Also, last night, I was commenting on the issues with categories.
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@SilverWoodBooks RT @hotspurman: https://www.youtube.com/user/IndieAuthorALLi Online debate on Crowd-funding with @OrnaRoss @AmandaBabs1 @IndieAuthorALLI (twitter.com/_/status/473470422403805184)
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luxagraf haven't seen loqi pick this up: http://aralbalkan.com/notes/how-web-2-0-killed-the-internet/
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Loqi who, me?
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luxagraf I dislike sensationaist headlines, but i think he reaches an audience that might not otherwise be thinking about this stuff
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barnabywalters luxagraf: loqi only picks up posts with “indieweb”, “indiewebcamp“, “indieauth”, “webmention” and “ownourdata” IIRC
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Loqi tantek: barnabywalters left you a message 2 hours, 42 minutes ago: RE openphoto, indeed, I managed to get the server-side portion of it working, but it relies on js for logging in (persona) and gallery pages, and there is a javascript bug I’m not sure I can be bothered to track down
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jonnybarnes luxagraf: no worries on the ssl front, hows your setup going, I've managed to get an A+ on ssllabs :)
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luxagraf barnabywalters: yeah i was just surprised KevinMarks_ hadn't tweeted about it yet :)
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barnabywalters this is true
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luxagraf jonnybarnes: I haven't had a chance to try moving past A- yet.
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barnabywalters good to see aral is calling out “open” APIs as indiewebcamp.com/Bulshytt
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luxagraf jonnybarnes: hoping to get some time to work on it this afternoon though. I think I just need to change the ciphers I support to get Forward Secrecy working in more browsers
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tantek barnabywalters: "relies on js for gallery pages" is another good criticism to add to /TroveBox
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tantek because frankly, that's just bad web dev
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barnabywalters tantek: and to /Persona, then
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barnabywalters unless there is a variant which does not require javascript
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tantek barnabywalters: I thought /Persona had fallbacks without JS
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tantek but it's up to the Persona consumer site to implement them
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tantek s/consumer/consuming
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Loqi tantek meant to say: but it's up to the Persona consuming site to implement them
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tantek I agree with Aral's criticism of Open APIs as I've written about it before, http://tantek.com/2013/190/t4/api-proprietary-tos-bizdev-open-html-http-indieweb (almost a year ago)
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barnabywalters tantek: doesn’t look like it https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Persona/The_implementor_s_guide/Supporting_users_without_JavaScript
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tantek however I disagree with the shade thrown at O'Reilly and buzzwords like Web 2.0
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tantek barnabywalters: darn. well that's dumb. ok, add that as criticism to /Persona too then
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brennannovak.com edited /bulshytt (+294) "/* Criticism */" (view diff)
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bnvk loves his most recent wiki entry
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Loqi [@comunidadeinova] RT @kevinmarks: “We have a broad consensus on the need to decentralize the web
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Loqi the question is how to do it.” @baconmeteor #indieweb http:… (http://twtr.io/mywkewaatb)
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tantek bnvk :)
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tantek it's not a question - you answer it with *doing* on your own site
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /Trovebox (+200) "/* Criticism */ added reliance on js" (view diff)
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brennannovak.com edited /bulshytt (+31) "/* Criticism */" (view diff)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /Persona (+294) "added criticism section with reliance on js" (view diff)
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tantek oops I think I unintentionally stopped glennjones.net by attempting to access old notes. sorry glennjones
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bnvk I see the NodeJitsu 404 and 400 page quite regularly
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tantek yeah I assume those are temporary
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tantek unlike the 502 pages
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tantek what is it with Node?
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tantek or is that a NodeJitsu specific problem?
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bnvk not sure if it's node apps always crashing
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bnvk or NJ, just something I feel like I see quite often
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tantek.com edited /POSSE (+36) "update heading for consistency" (view diff)
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jonnybarnes luxagraf: this guy has a great ssl setup: https://gist.github.com/konklone/6532544
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tantek.com edited /rel-syndication (+36) "consistent use of "IndieWeb Examples" as a heading" (view diff)
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tantek luxagraf, do you publish notes (e.g. tweets) on your own website?
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tantek and btw - noticed you're in NYC, you should come to IndieWebCamp 2014 East! http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Guest_List#East
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david.shanske.com edited /User:David.shanske.com (-398) "/* Wordpress Custom Post Types Planning */" (view diff)
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GWG Not sure if this works.
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luxagraf tantek: not yet. that's my next project.
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tantek.com edited /note (+2070) "add explicit IndieWeb Examples section (finally) starting with examples on POSSE and rel-syndication pages" (view diff)
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luxagraf jonnybarnes: yeah, he also has a great tutorial on navigating StartSSL's crazy admin system
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luxagraf question for those you POSSEing to twitter, where are you reading twitter? i.e. are is your posting client also a reader or do you read one place and post from another?
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luxagraf I'm thinking mostly in the context of replies... the idea of reading something on twitter or in and app and then jumping over to my own tool to reply to something feels very awkward
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tantek luxagraf - perhaps note that it's your next project in a section on http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Luxagraf.net
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tantek luxagraf - re: reading on Twitter, I noticed that my Twitter (even reading) usage has gone down a lot after I started posting notes from my own site. It feels quite liberating (from a lot of noisy posts).
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tantek occasionally I check @-replies from friends
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tantek and of course whatever tweets Loqi copies here in IRC
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Loqi who, me?
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petermolnar I love this bot :D
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tantek Loqi's pretty funny
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luxagraf tantek: i tend to use twitter a lot like adactio describes in his post -- mini blog posts
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luxagraf tantek: but then i tend to get questions about them that i like to @-reply to with a quick note
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tantek luxagraf - there's also /reader - people building reading support into their own sites
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luxagraf tantek: it's the latter part that's challenging
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luxagraf And I don't want to build my own reader because then I have to maintain it against an ever-shifting set of APIs
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tantek luxagraf - yeah I've been doing @-replies exclusively from my own site for a while, and yes it is a little challenging, OTOH I love being able to more easily find my replies AND write longer replies!
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tantek luxagraf - you start your own reader with just h-entry
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tantek and then you can use barnabywalters Twitter to uf2 h-entry shim
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tantek without having to chase their ever-shifting set of APIs
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tantek petermolnar: this is a good blog post: https://petermolnar.eu/blog/indieweb-decentralize-web-centralizing-ourselves/
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luxagraf tantek: the longer replies is really the main reason I want to build my own notes section. other than that i find 140 chars too disposable to bother with.
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petermolnar thank you tantek !
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tantek luxagraf - it is so liberating to be able to write slightly longer notes
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tantek I see 200-300 characters still being in the spirit of Twitter
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tantek also - with white-space support, you can do minimal "formatting"
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tantek.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+171) "add petermollnar: Indieweb – decentralize the web while centralizing ourselves" (view diff)
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tantek petermolnar: now add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people :)
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petermolnar ai ai sir :)
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tantek.com created /User:BrennanNovak.com (+35) "r" (view diff)
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petermolnar.eu edited /IRC_People (+59) "adding petermolnar" (view diff)
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JonathanNeal Way to go, Tantek! http://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/3876
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bear luxagraf - the most basic PFS and anti-beast anti-heartbleed cipher config is part of the /https docs on the wiki
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aaronpk petermolnar: hm Loqi should already not be reporting links twice
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: I am around.
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aaronpk unless you changed the URL, then it looks like a different link
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JonathanNeal KevinMarks_: https://github.com/chapmanu/fragmentions/issues/11
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GWG The word type is a reserved word in Wordpress.
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luxagraf.net edited /User:Luxagraf.net (+192) "added some projects" (view diff)
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GWG What synonyms can I use to describe the items that include Reply, RSVP, Like, etc?
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bear luxagraf - specifically http://indiewebcamp.com/nginx#SSL_Setup has what I use on almost all of my production nginx setups for SSL config
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tantek JonathanNeal: I was already on the AB, the new participants are Art, Virginie, Jay, Soohong, and David
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JonathanNeal You weren’t re-elected?
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tantek no - my term isn't up until next year
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petermolnar aaronpk that was exactly the reason why I was thinking about a prevent mentions button: I needed to change the permalink, since wordpress somewhy failed to generate it in it's full length when first saved
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tantek only ~half the W3C AB seats turnover every year
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tantek GWG we sometimes say post kinds too: http://indiewebcamp.com/posts#Kinds_of_Posts
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GWG That would work
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tantek aaronpk - that's an interesting "update" scenario - same post with different permalink / slug
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tantek one way we can solve that (communicate equivalence to the receiver)
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petermolnar !tell tommorris I'd like to help in IndieWebCampUK 2014, please ping me what is there I can possibly do
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek is to send a webmention for both the old and new URL
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tantek actually, resending the webmention for the old URL should be sufficient
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tantek because then when the receiver goes to retrieve it, and gets the redirect, the receiver can then know to *update* the URL permalink of the comment rather than create a new comment
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tommorris …if they follow 302s properly. ;)
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tantek petermolnar: do you redirect the old permalink URL to the new one?
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Loqi tommorris: petermolnar left you a message 1 minute ago: I'd like to help in IndieWebCampUK 2014, please ping me what is there I can possibly do
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tommorris petermolnar: not sure yet.
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tantek petermolnar: presumably you can sign up as a volunteer at least!
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/UK/Guest_List#Volunteers
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tantek tommorris: why are you not RSVP'd yourself? ;) http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/UK/Guest_List#Creators
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petermolnar I wanted to ask first :)
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tommorris tantek: because this past weekend has been about crazy tax paperwork.
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tantek you can always sign up to volunteer - and in your sign-up, ask. ;)
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tantek paperwork--
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Loqi paperwork has -1 karma
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tantek adaction implemented notes, webmentions on them, and webactions on them, and incorporating them into his composite home page feed in one fell swoop. amazing.
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tantek s/adaction/adactio
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Loqi tantek meant to say: adactio implemented notes, webmentions on them, and webactions on them, and incorporating them into his composite home page feed in one fell swoop. amazing.
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petermolnar.eu edited /2014/UK/Guest_List (+33) "/* Volunteers */" (view diff)
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tantek :)
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tantek.com edited /note (+333) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Jeremy Keith" (view diff)
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luxagraf bear: thanks for that link, hadn't seen the nginx page. i'll start with that.
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bear yw
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bear I try to keep the nginx page up to speed on all the latest hotness
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tantek oh nm, adactio hasn't done webactions yet - just Twitter tweet actions
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luxagraf tantek: i noticed you use <action> on your site, has that ever been floated to w3c/whatwg?
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tantek luxagraf - not going to bother floating it to w3c/whatwg until we have critical mass of publishing and parsing/UI experience
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tantek w3c already went over the deep end with Google web intents (now defunct)
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tantek and whatwg is likely to redesign <action> for no good reason (by a bunch of people who don't actually work on their own websites and instead prefer to argue over email)
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bear just nods sadly at that last depiction of the last 10 yrs of web standards work
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luxagraf ha! that might be the best definition of the whatwg I've seen
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tantek luxagraf - it is possible to fight the email arguers in WHATWG but it takes A LOT of time and energy
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tantek so it has to really be worth it
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tantek easier to just get stuff to work, and then write a separate spec
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tantek no need to write a WHATWG spec, just like WHATWG has made it clear there is no need to write a W3C spec
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tantek e.g. webmention is an independent spedc
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tantek s/spedc/spec
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Loqi tantek meant to say: e.g. webmention is an independent spec
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barnabywalters as are all the microformats vocabs and parsing algorithm
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barnabywalters and all the indieweb algorithms
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tantek right
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tantek though the indieweb algorithms are more like write-ups than specs
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tantek which is fine for now, we can formalize more as we go
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tantek barnabywalters: do you remember when you implemented <action> on your notes?
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barnabywalters concise, practical write-ups > formal boilerplate
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tantek very true
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barnabywalters tantek: I can probably figure it out
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jonnybarnes.net edited /Nginx (+107) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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jonnybarnes.net edited /Nginx (+0) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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tantek barnabywalters: ok I'm guessing since 2013-03-15 at least since that's the citation that's in the examples section
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tantek.com edited /webactions (+139) "/* Action tag examples in the wild */ IndieWeb Examples, some date citations" (view diff)
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barnabywalters tantek: that seems likely, I can’t find any obvious references to it in my git logs
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bear jonnybarnes++
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Loqi jonnybarnes has 1 karma
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jonnybarnes anyway to stop mediawiki parsing links that are in code blocks, see http://indiewebcamp.com/Nginx#static_site_with_SSL_termination
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jonnybarnes my first karma :D
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jonnybarnes thanks bear
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tantek !tell adactio well done with launching notes with webmentions and so much more! consider wrapping your tweet action links with <action> webaction tags like a bunch of us have: http://indiewebcamp.com/webactions#IndieWeb_Examples
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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bear jonnybarnes since you use php-fpm, please do review that example config for sanity
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tantek jonnybarnes: <nowiki> can be used to wrap things
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jonnybarnes bear: that looks fine to me for a vanilla php app
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jonnybarnes some apps like owncloud need a little more persuading
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bear jonnybarnes - is it different enough to warrant it's own example?
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bear or a footnote to that example even
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jonnybarnes.net edited /Nginx (+17) "/* static site with SSL termination */ get rid of padlock, this isn't a real URL" (view diff)
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jonnybarnes thanks tantek
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jonnybarnes bear: hang on, ill just have a look at the conf I used for owncloud
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bear ta
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tantek adactio has even implemented embedded geo location on his notes!
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tantek marked up with h-geo
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aaronpk is there *any reason* at all not to redirect http -> https for the public front-end of a personal site?
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jonnybarnes bear: heres the relevant part of my config: http://pastebin.com/3TQbykRG
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jonnybarnes its simpler than I remembered
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jonnybarnes aaronpk: will your site ever be hit by non-browsers?
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bear jonnybarnes - that reads better than what we have, can you adjust it?
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bear i'm also curious if that expanded regex is worth including
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tantek aaronpk, barnabywalters you've posted some notes with geo location right? did we ever fully figure out how to mark that it up consistently? like inside an h-entry?
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luxagraf bear: huh, i still get an A- with that config: https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=luxagraf.net
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aaronpk jonnybarnes: yes all the time... other peoples sites parsing h-entry comments and such
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tantek doesn't find any markup on http://indiewebcamp.com/notes#Location
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aaronpk tantek: I don't think we came to any conclusion
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tantek hmm
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aaronpk a bunch of my notes have location now that I'm posting photos there
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jonnybarnes aaronpk: then one needs to be careful, if some software that doesnt support sni tries connecting
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tantek aaronpk, hmm, I seem to have added p-location to h-entry a while ago: http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry#Properties
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aaronpk i'm using p-location right now
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aaronpk jonnybarnes: SNI is a good reason! that should go on the /https page
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bear luxagraf - do you also have the ssl_protocols list as it is in the example?
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tantek aaronpk as of 2013-09-17
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tantek (the spec that is)
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jonnybarnes aaronpk: for example, your server returns the ssl cert for *.pin13.net when reqyesting aaronparecki.com without SNI
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bear oh poo - SNI
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luxagraf bear: y
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bear I always forget about SNI as it's been a very long time since i ran on a hosted setup
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bear luxagraf what server are you running?
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aaronpk is SNI something that is expected to be supported by *all* https clients in the near future, or is it worth saying something like level 5 is SSL without SNI (on a dedicated IP)
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barnabywalters tantek: I experiemented a little, what I have currently makes the most sense to me for notes with location+name+geo
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luxagraf bear: debian 7
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aaronpk bear: I use SNI on my own servers cause I have a bunch of different domains on them and I don't want to have to get a lot of IP addresses for the server
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jonnybarnes bear: this is the conf I have for my laravel app: http://pastebin.com/BMTeejmX
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bear aaronpk - you don't need SNI for that IMO - modern web servers can support different hostnames on a single IP
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barnabywalters http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwaterpigs.co.uk%2Fnotes%2F4UsH5N%2F
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aaronpk that's what SNI is I thought
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bear sni is for folks who can't control the "listen" and "server" keywords in their nginx/apache configs because they are behind hosting services load balancers
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aaronpk what? no
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jonnybarnes aaronpk: IPv6 cant come quick enough, would negate the need for SNI altogether
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aaronpk without SNI, the https client has to negotiate the ssl connection first, before it can send a "Host" HTTP header
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jonnybarnes bear aaronpk he's right, thats the whole problem that SNI was created to solve
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aaronpk without SNI, if the client skips SSL validation then the ssl connection will succeed and it can send the Host header and the web server will respond with the proper site.
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bear sorry - i was trying to have 3 different conversations - going to drop out for a real-life meeting (apologies for getting the threads confused)
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jonnybarnes no worries bear
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bear luxagraf - the PFS ranking depends on the ssl_* settings of your nginx
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tantek barnabywalters: do you know when you first posted a note with geo information? URL?
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tantek.com edited /note (+721) "/* Location */ fix up headings a bit, add Why, How, IndieWeb Location Examples" (view diff)
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barnabywalters so now we have at least four examples of notes with location data (aaronpk, adactio, barnabywalters, tommorris pre-checkins)
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barnabywalters tantek: earliest I can find at the mo is http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/286/
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barnabywalters actually http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/285/
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tantek.com edited /note (+156) "/* IndieWeb Location Examples */ user names, sites, tools" (view diff)
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barnabywalters yep, it’s that one
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tantek ok barnabywalters I'm gonna put your first them
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tantek then
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tantek tommorris: do you post notes with geo, or only checkins?
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@kevinmarks "@MitchWagner: I seem to have joined a movement http://t.co/sad62qa26b" one of us, one of us #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/473494975351500801)
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tantek aaronpk, do you know when you first posted a note with geo information? URL?
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petermolnar hm
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petermolnar it seems that the wordpress snap plugin stores enough information to create reshare/retweet/repost/etc webaction buttons instead of regular shares
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petermolnar I think I've found my next project
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tommorris tantek: Both. Although checkins are now broken. ;-)
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tantek tommorris, do you know when you first posted a note with geo information? URL?
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barnabywalters so it looks like tommorris’s checkins have a venue h-card as a child: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftommorris.org%2Fposts%2F8819
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tantek tommorris: and using what markup (for notes with geo information)
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jonnybarnes barnabywalters: when did you start using mapbox for tiles? I thought you used someone else
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tantek.com edited /note (+159) "/* IndieWeb Location Examples */ cite barnabywalters first geo note, move to first presumably" (view diff)
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: since cloudmade went all enterprisey
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tantek aaronpk and tommorris - feel free to update / link your entry here with the geo note date information / URL: http://indiewebcamp.com/note#IndieWeb_Location_Examples
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barnabywalters the note page is quite crowded, it might be a better idea to move the location stuff to http://indiewebcamp.com/location
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jonnybarnes barnabywalters: I might recommend moving from leaflet to mapbox.js then, also helps the guy that develops leaflet now works for mapbox
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tommorris here’s a post on my site that has a location but isn’t a checkin - http://tommorris.org/posts/8908
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: what is the advantage of mapbox.js? it looks like Leaflet with a convenience constructor for mapbox maps added
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barnabywalters useful for people who haven’t already got it working :)
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jonnybarnes barnabywalters basically
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jonnybarnes though i did manage to get better positioning working with mapbox.js
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jonnybarnes barnabywalters: I prefer moving the marker, I remember us discussing how you can move the map in your new note UI for better positioning
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jonnybarnes see example here: https://www.mapbox.com/mapbox.js/example/v1.0.0/draggable-marker/
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jonnybarnes I don't know if the draggable property is in vanilla leaflet
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tantek !tell snarfed, benwerd any news on location for this week's Homebrew Website Club meetup? http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-06-04-homebrew-website-club ? Any chance of knowing by ~10:45 so I can add it to today's Mozilla meeting announcements?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: yep, the draggable property is in leaflet. I can’t actually remember why I went for dragging the map rather than the marker
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barnabywalters IIRC it was mainly to avoid annoying situations like accidental zooming/dragging moving the marker out of view
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barnabywalters this way the marker is always in view, and always in the cetnre
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barnabywalters centre
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barnabywalters ah, I know why my location service is returning really bad names for places
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barnabywalters they all have empty street-addresses, in which case the locality/region should be used instead
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: Want to do HWC this week?
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: sure
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tantek.com edited /note (+328) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Chloe Weil since 2013-12-03" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2014-06-04-homebrew-website-club (+455) "/* Where */ +Chicago" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu !tell JonathanNeal: I was playing around with svg icons, for my site. Is there some way to have the svgs inherit the colour of the corresponding text element?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tommorris barnabywalters: on mobile, dragging the map to move the marker tends to be more precise.
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2014-06-04-homebrew-website-club (+36) "/* RSVP */ +Chicago" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2014-06-04-homebrew-website-club (+16) "/* Notes */ +Chicago" (view diff)
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barnabywalters tommorris: good point
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tantek anyone in NYC want to do a later night HWC this week? Say 21:30-22:30? (i.e. synchronous with PDT!)
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tommorris I’ve used a fair few map editing tools and Pushpin on iOS has a better POI input experience than most of the others, because it uses move the map with a centred marker
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GWG Is this permalink structure too bad?
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GWG /note/kind/reply
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2014-06-04-homebrew-website-club (+13) "/* RSVP */ going" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /note (+254) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ caseorganic since 2013-09-08" (view diff)
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gRegor` I wouldn't include the "kind" personally. A note can be multiple "kind"s. E.g.a reply and a like.
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barnabywalters tommorris: yep, I was using pushpin a lot before implementing that picker so was probably influenced by that
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barnabywalters gRegor`: I remember discussing this with acegiak and coming to the conclusing that having a reply also be a like actually doesn’t really make any sense
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tantek.com edited /create (+297) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ adactio note creation UI" (view diff)
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GWG gRegor`: I've made it so it can only be one type
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barnabywalters because a post being a like is defined by the UI used to create the post
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GWG I've set it so you can only be one type
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barnabywalters and likes and replies are typically displayed in completely different ways
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GWG And because type is a restricted term in Wordpress....
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tantek oh hey someone else is using permashortcitations! https://twitter.com/mibester/status/422743724410425344
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@mibester If you've got a short domain and want simple, personal URL shortener, I built one over here: https://github.com/kimili/No-DB-URL-Shortener (mub.io KRyRb) (twitter.com/_/status/422743724410425344)
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gRegor` I plan to be able to "like" a post while I'm replying to it, barnabywalters. Seems it would be a fairly common thing for me.
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barnabywalters nice! will be interesting to see what sort of a response he gets to them
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barnabywalters gRegor`: how do you anticipate sites displaying your combination reply-likes?
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barnabywalters how does your site display them?
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gRegor` Are you referring to sending two webmentions, one for the like and one for the reply?
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barnabywalters gRegor`: since they’ll both have the same source and target URLs they’re not technically different webmentions
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gRegor` My display is still in progress. I don't think I have an example yet.
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GWG I've once again started a fierce debate
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barnabywalters but I’m talking about what gets shown visually
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gRegor` Just a moment. I might have a screenshot of what I showed GWG recently
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gRegor` Hm, nope.
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tantek this is a great post about the creation of his notes on his own site, and importing old tweets too: http://michaelbester.com/journal/online-homesteading
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@MitchWagner RT @kevinmarks: "@MitchWagner: I seem to have joined a movement http://t.co/sad62qa26b" one of us, one of us #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/473501909568217089)
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gRegor` On my end, I check for multiple types in the microformats and will display "and liked this post" or similar underneath the comment text, barnabywalters
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tantek.com edited /note (+356) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Michael Bester since 2014-01-13" (view diff)
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gRegor` Especially on Facebook posts when people comment and like it. They're displayed separately, currently, but snarfed made an update recently that will allow me to group them together.
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tantek.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+104) "/* 2014 */ Online Homesteading" (view diff)
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gRegor` Probably important to note that I'm not doing a facepile for likes/favorites and I don't think I intend to.
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KartikPrabhu barnabywalters: I agree with gregor`. want would like to "like and reply" to a post -- not there yet with my notes posting UI. As for receiving webmentions: I prioritise "replies" over all so if anything is a in-reply-to it will be a reply even if it has other like-of or something.
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: have you written up your objections to facepiles?
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barnabywalters historically, the meaning of liking/starring/favouriting has been defined by a) the interaction initiating it and b) how it’s displayed visually/audibly
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barnabywalters but of course, historically the same entity has had control over both
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gRegor` Yeah, "like" is an boolean attribute of a webmention, on my end.
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barnabywalters now control over the two halves is spread out between the sender and the reciever
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: I haven't. I don't know if it's really an objection, just a preference. I can document it further on my webmentions wiki page though.
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KartikPrabhu yup. which is good. I can "like and reply" and the receiver can choose to treat it as they wish
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: cool
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barnabywalters the meaning of “like” just gets watered down even more
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tantek anybody else post notes on their site not listed here? indiewebcamp.com/note#IndieWeb_Examples
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KartikPrabhu barnabywalters: agreed. and I don't mind. I dislike the idea of just "liking" without saying anything
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tantek please add yourself, your site, and when you started posting notes there if so: /note#IndieWeb_Examples
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gRegor` HWC two days away and I'm the first to RSVP?
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gRegor` Slackers. ;)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: me! https://kartikprabhu.com/notes :)
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tantek gRegor`: seriously!
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KevinMarks_ do my collations count as notes? they don't have individual permalinks
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tantek KartikPrabhu: is this your first? https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/test-note-totally-te
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tantek what is a note?
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Loqi A note is a post that is typically short, plain text, and written/posted quickly http://indiewebcamp.com/note
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yup!
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gRegor` barnabywalters: Found the screenshot: http://snag.gy/IFKh2.jpg
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tantek well I better make that more specific about having its own permalink then
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tantek (oh it's in the next sentence, but I'll merge)
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KevinMarks_ they could have fragmention permalinks. bwahaha
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luxagraf this might be a use case limited to me, but is there anything in the markup around POSSEing to denote that a POSSEd copy may be slightly different than the source?
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luxagraf i.e. perhaps passing through a copy desk at a some publication or changing to get around Medium's lack of footnote support, etc
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barnabywalters KevinMarks_: https://i.imgflip.com/9a7l1.jpg
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luxagraf Or would that just not be POSSE since the copies aren't strictly copies
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barnabywalters luxagraf: what goal are you trying to achieve? in what case does a consumer need to know whether or not a POSSEd copy is different?
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barnabywalters they are typically lower resolution by default, e.g. twitter not having HTML, or embedding things more poorly
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barnabywalters or of course truncation
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tantek.com edited /note (+295) "update defn to include unstructured aspect" (view diff)
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tantek what is a note?
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Loqi A note is a post that is typically short unstructured* plain text, written & posted quickly, that has its own permalink page http://indiewebcamp.com/note
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tantek KevinMarks_: permalink page ;)
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luxagraf barnabywalters: the specific case i was thinking of is that i often write something for say arstechnica, but then publish something very similar on my own site. I was thinking it might be cool to indicate that one is at least related to the other, if not a copy
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tantek luxagraf - it's assumed that POSSE copies may be of lower fidelity
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tantek with portions missing
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tantek e.g. abbreviated tweets
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barnabywalters luxagraf: my rule of thumb is: does the copy link to the original? if so, link to it with rel-syndication
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barnabywalters otherwise, in some cases it might make more sense just to have a plain link
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barnabywalters you can also treat it as a repost
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/webmention (+74) "/* Todo */ Display Concepts" (view diff)
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barnabywalters in fact I did that recently with the microformats blog
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luxagraf barnabywalters: hmm. repost, that's a good idea
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barnabywalters http://microformats.org/2014/03/05/getting-started-with-microformats2 is a repost of http://waterpigs.co.uk/articles/getting-started-with-microformats2/
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barnabywalters and they have slightly different content
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barnabywalters see if the markup for those two makes sense to you
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gregorlove.com uploaded /File:gregorlove-reply-and-like-2014-06-02.jpg "Concept for combining likes and replies from the same person."
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tantek.com edited /note (+243) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ kartikprabhu, note adactio blog post" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/webmention (+0) "/* Display Concepts */ Archiving screenshot here instead of third-party screenshot site that will likely vanish. :)" (view diff)
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tantek hey that's a lot of people posting notes on their own website
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tantek pressure's on everyone else to start doing so ;)
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luxagraf barnabywalters: it does, though i doubt i can convince any editor to add u-repost-of
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@t Congrats @adactio on implementing #indieweb notes! http://adactio.com/journal/6826 Who's next? http://indiewebcamp.com/note#IndieWeb_Examples (ttk.me t4WP1) (twitter.com/_/status/473507324040974336)
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barnabywalters luxagraf: ars technica doesn’t usually link back to originals at all, right?
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luxagraf barnabywalters: no they don't. but I'm going to pitch them on the idea
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barnabywalters luxagraf: got to be worth a try!
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KevinMarks_ who else is watching the wwdc keynote?
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tantek KevinMarks_: let me know if anything web-relevant happens ;)
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tantek p.s. #indiechat for wwdc chatter ;)
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/webmention (+606) "/* Display Concepts */ Brief explanation of my thought process" (view diff)
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JonathanNeal !tell KartikPrabhu: SVGs are often colored using the `fill` property. However, I’m not sure what would happen if you used `fill: currentColor` within the SVG.
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Loqi JonathanNeal: KartikPrabhu left you a message 37 minutes ago: I was playing around with svg icons, for my site. Is there some way to have the svgs inherit the colour of the corresponding text element?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/473507324040974336/5381582 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/note#IndieWeb_Examples (webmention)
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/webmention (+2) "/* Display Concepts */" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/t/473507324040974336/473507634092703744 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/note#IndieWeb_Examples (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/473507324040974336/1778601 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/note#IndieWeb_Examples (webmention)
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tantek hmm - sent a webmention to Adactio's post but my comment/reply didn't show up
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tantek I wonder what's going on
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tantek !tell adactio I sent a webmention for my reply http://tantek.com/2014/153/t1/congrats-implementing-indieweb-notes to you post http://adactio.com/journal/6826 got a 202 but didn't see it show up on your post.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/webmention (+129) "/* Display Concepts */" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/webmention (+6) "/* Display Concepts */" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/webmention (+49) "/* Display Concepts */" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /facepile (+17) "+dfn" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/473507324040974336/18299065 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/note#IndieWeb_Examples (webmention)
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tantek good post by julien51 on webdiversity: http://blog.superfeedr.com/webdiversity/ a few examples there that could be added to /monoculture if someone has a few moments!
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Loqi snarfed: tantek left you a message 1 hour ago: any news on location for this week's Homebrew Website Club meetup? http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-06-04-homebrew-website-club ? Any chance of knowing by ~10:45 so I can add it to today's Mozilla meeting announcements?
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@erinjo @sarahjebner If you'd ever like help getting set up on @withknown or any other #indieweb tool, @benwerd & I would be happy to get you going. (twitter.com/_/status/473512660927922178)
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snarfed tantek: you read my mind. benwerd has been looking into using rockit, but hasn't confirmed yet. if not, we can do it at quip, but probably couldn't do the writing hour beforehand, so i'm holding out hope
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gregorlove.com edited /Loqi (-122) "/* Ideas */ cleanup" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Loqi (+9) "/* Commands and Queries */ cleanup" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Loqi (-10) "/* Ideas */" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Loqi (+62) "/* Commands and Queries */" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com (+83) "/* gRegor Morrill */" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Loqi (+125) "/* Commands and Queries */" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Loqi (+435) "/* Commands and Queries */ correcting "who is xyz" and adding more commands" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+11) "+dfn" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/473507324040974336/14465627 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/note#IndieWeb_Examples (webmention)
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tantek !tell adactio nicely done with the h-geo markup inside your notes also! To tie it to the h-entry, add p-location, e.g. class="p-location h-geo"
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: JonathanNeal left you a message 1 hour, 8 minutes ago: SVGs are often colored using the `fill` property. However, I’m not sure what would happen if you used `fill: currentColor` within the SVG.
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: but the SVG still has to be in the HTML right? There is no way to do this with CSS using SVG as background
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aaronpk ooh apple talking about silos!!
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bear silo reference!
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aaronpk except i think they just replaced a dozen silos with one silo
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: svg use can inherit fill properties. SVG as a background could try fill: currentColor.
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JonathanNeal I don’t know what would happen
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aaronpk oh I see... they're creating a way for apps to share health data between each other
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: fill:currentColor didn't work on either FF or Chrome, it think it doesn't inherit across documents (which seems correct). I'll try the svg use. thanks :)
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JonathanNeal Gotta love <svg><use>. https://github.com/jonathantneal/svg4everybody
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tantek looks forward to KartikPrabhu's vector image indie posts ;)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: as is documenting how to do it?
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bear KartikPrabhu - please! it's an area I know I want to add to my site but lack all knowledge of graphics
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I thought that's what YOU were figuring out with all the SVG discussions. You can check /photo for some clues :)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I am figuring out how to best do svg for icons :) I will write those up... I already use SVGs for illustrations :D
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werd.io edited /Known (+454) "Descriptive change from Idno => Known" (view diff)
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aaronpk whoa, iOS is doing intents now
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bret rel="apple-mobile-intent-precomposed"
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aaronpk yay now i really have no reason to switch to android :)
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aaronpk bret++
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Loqi bret has 10 karma
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@ShaneHudson Nice to see iOS getting real sharing, about time. Will help with #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/473532053238333440)
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snarfed funny timing, so soon after fb's applinks
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tommorris I wonder if one can do so without apps.
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tommorris like, can I add my site as a something to share to, and the action is to open up the web page
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tommorris “HTML5 Premium Video” == DRM shit.
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aaronpk i think these are all iOS native APIs
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KevinMarks_ bookmarklets?
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KevinMarks_ ah, they did do 3rd party keyboards
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KevinMarks_ that was the hook for so many hacks on Mac OS X
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tommorris They took it out, then everyone who used stuff like TextExpander freaked out and they’ve put something similar back in
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luxagraf vim
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luxagraf whoops, wrong tmux pane :)
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tommorris luxagraf: good taste in editor though. ;)
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tantek so intents like android intents for native ios apps, or are they screwing around with defunct web intents?
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aaronpk like android intents
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KevinMarks_ also widgets in the browser, kind of
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KevinMarks_ though you might have to write them just for ios and X
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tantek for anyone directly embedding Twitter profile images, e.g. URLs with pbs.twimg.com/profile_images - Twitter recently changed looks like all those URLs and broke any old references.
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tantek !tell benwerd ^^^
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu tantek: it seems that https://twitter.com/username/profile_image still redirects to the current one...?
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 2 hours, 54 minutes ago: any news on location for this week's Homebrew Website Club meetup? http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-06-04-homebrew-website-club ? Any chance of knowing by ~10:45 so I can add it to today's Mozilla meeting announcements?
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 5 minutes ago: ^^^
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benwerd whoops
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aaronpk crap I knew I should have started caching twitter avatars locally
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/473507324040974336/27247248 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/note#IndieWeb_Examples (webmention)
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KevinMarks_ sometimes you want the avatar at posting time, not current one
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aaronpk right
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks_: hmm when would that be needed?
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KartikPrabhu or rather "when is it imp. to distinguish between current avatar and avatar at posting time?"
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu, I wrote something to make svg spritemaps
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JonathanNeal http://sandbox.thewikies.com/svgstore/
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@dougmckown iOS 8's #extensibility should be good for #indieweb. #WWDC (twitter.com/_/status/473543130328104960)
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: thanks for the link will play with it :)
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KevinMarks_ trivially, when discussing avatar picture
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KevinMarks_ more interestingly to enable facial expressions for notes
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KartikPrabhu so someone would change their avatar post a note and then change it again for the next note?
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KevinMarks_ yes. Like Livejournal had over a decade ago
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KevinMarks_ or think how snapchat lest you do a facial reaction and a note
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KartikPrabhu oh hmm! that seems tedious with current avatar UI but I guess you could do that... nice. didn't think of such use at all
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KevinMarks_ or it detects smileys in your note and changes to the right face for you
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benwerd I still really like a lot of what LJ did - avatar switching was great
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benwerd And people actually paid to have more avatars so they could do more of it! Business model + flexibility
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KevinMarks_ though back then having lots of photos of your own face was harder, so the avatar sets were often images
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KevinMarks_ I suppose Path does a bit of that with its smiley responses
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aaronpk KevinMarks_: !! that is an awesome idea, choosing an avatar photo automatically by detecting smileys in the note!
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KevinMarks_ reading Swift manual
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tantek aaropnk, I like what Swarm lets you do, with putting a "sticker" on your avatar per check-in.
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tantek (sticker, or first emoji in your checkin message <-- hint hint ;) )
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tantek and yeah, I guess this answers all those "should we cache Twitter profile images or not locally on our servers" questions doesn't it?
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aaronpk tantek: yeah!! discovered that trick recently
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kylewm GWG: hard to tell but I think the issue is that your syndication link points to the "shared 3 photos" page, while the likes are coming in on the individual photos
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@AsIWalkedOut RT @hotspurman: https://www.youtube.com/user/IndieAuthorALLi Online debate on Crowd-funding with @OrnaRoss @AmandaBabs1 (twitter.com/_/status/473552342378610688)
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snarfed hey benwerd! happy to help more w/hwc venue. we can always use quip as a fallback, but we probably couldn't do the writing hour here - 5:30 is a bit too early - so if rockit or something else works out, that'd be great
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luxagraf well, can't seem to get PFS working for IE, but otherwise https is done
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tantek luxagraf: which IE version?
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luxagraf tantek: all of them 6-11, (so odd to see IE display any consistency)
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tantek hmm - I thought the PFS problems were only with older IE versions (like <8)
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luxagraf tantek: something to do with the ciphers nginx is accessing, but I can't seem to debug the exact problem
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tantek I think bear would be the one to ask - as both an https and nginx expert
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tantek pretty sure he got it working in newer IEs
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bear luxgraf - if you pastebin your config and the sslabs report I can take a look after this round of meetings is over
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luxagraf tantek: yeah I'm using his config file actually, but something still isn't right
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bear it can vary based on nginx version also
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luxagraf bear: much appreciated, i will do that
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bear and yes, PFS with IE is problematic IE8 or earlier
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bear if you have to support IE8 you will need to adjust by adding back some ciphers
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bear the rule-of-thumb is "if you want PFS, you have to force IE9+"
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luxagraf bear: here's my config file: http://pastebin.com/45MvqWXK and report: https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=luxagraf.net
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luxagraf bear: also see: http://pastebin.com/LuA5eWUU which I think is the source of the problem
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bear that was going to be my next question - what OpenSSL lib are you running
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bear because that debug output shows it not allowing nginx to offer the ones that older IE requires
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kylewm !tell GWG hard to tell with all the redirects Facebook does but I think the issue is that your syndication link points to the "shared 3 photos" page, while the likes are coming in on the individual photos
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek kylewm: that is odd how FB treats those as separate individual posts, and a collection post
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tantek when you just write one post and attach multiple images to it
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kylewm i agree that has always been confusing
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kylewm going to airplane mode
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tantek kylewm: perhaps worth mentioning / documenting on /Facebook since I don't know of any other silo or implementation that does that
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luxagraf bear: yup. i just can't figure out how to fix that.
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bear what OS ?
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luxagraf debian 7
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bear what does openssl version -a return?
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bear is it at least 1.0.1e ?
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luxagraf well, yes. but I compiled nginx 1.1.7 against openssl1.0.1g
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bear ah, upgrade your nginx to v1.5+
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bear quite a few ssl related fixes were brought over
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luxagraf bear: typo, should have been 1.71.
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luxagraf 1.7.1
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bear hmm, then I'm going to have to dig deeper - you are ahead of me in testing now :)
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bear i'm only at 1.5
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bear it's possible that the cipher list needs to be tweaked for 1.7 paired with openssl 1.0.1g
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luxagraf bear: it seems like the problem has something to do with the ciphers available for tls1.1
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luxagraf bear: which is, i think what IE is looking for
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bear right
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bear and tls1.1 is deprecated in that cipher list
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bear so that it is used last if at all
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luxagraf hmm. i'll look around for a cipher list for 1.7.1, i hadn't considered that it might need tweaking based on nginx version
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bear I know it needed to when 1.5 came out
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bear because new ciphers were added to openssl
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bear when you get the list do please blog about it so we all can update our notes with your research as reference
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luxagraf bear: will do
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luxagraf bear: just ran across this: "ECDSA ciphers need an ECDSA certificate to work." is that right?
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bear it sounds right (but i'm also distracted)
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luxagraf bear: i'll dig into it more tomorrow, but maybe its the cert that's causing my problem
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luxagraf bear: thanks for your help.
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bear now that would be useful info - to start gathering certs that cause PFS issues
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gRegor` So /webmention is a huge page. I'm thinking of breaking the Implementations section into a sub-page. Thoughts?
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gRegor` Actually, http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#IndieWeb_Examples itself could be a page. Then a page for the rest of the #Implementations sub-section a third page
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tantek gRegor`: I think having IndieWeb Examples be a top level section on every feature page is an important thing
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tantek there are probably other things we could move out instead
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tantek like brainstorming
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tantek and some stuff on /webmention is probably more specific to particular uses of webmention
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@withknown "The era of Facebook is an anomaly. The idea of everybody going to one site is just weird." http://www.theverge.com/2014/3/13/5488558/danah-boyd-interview-the-era-of-facebook-is-an-anomaly #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/473574096899284992)
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gRegor` Are examples important to get a quick overview of the level of adoption, or see people's implementation details? I feel like it's the former. Of course, I've also set up a separate page for my implementation details that is much more in-depth than the few lines on there.
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snarfed tommorris: just fyi, your webmention handler is a bit unhappy (500ing): https://www.brid.gy/twitter/tommorris
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tommorris Yep, it’s on the list of things to fix. ;)
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tantek gRegor`: brief overview is good - e.g. see http://indiewebcamp.com/note#IndieWeb_Examples
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tantek gRegor`: part of the reason the webmention IndieWeb Examples are so much more detailed is that we were simultaneously evolving how webmention worked and implementing it across many sites
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snarfed tommorris: cool. apologies if i've pinged you about it before, i have a horrible memory :P
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tommorris is attempting to apply science to the business of taking photographs. ;-)
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@nrrrdcore Code of Conduct examples: http://indiewebcamp.com/code-of-conduct-examples (twitter.com/_/status/473576714120224769)
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@ffffux RT @nrrrdcore: Code of Conduct examples: http://indiewebcamp.com/code-of-conduct-examples (twitter.com/_/status/473577431841116160)
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@akis_matoulas RT @nrrrdcore: Code of Conduct examples: http://indiewebcamp.com/code-of-conduct-examples (twitter.com/_/status/473577834473357312)
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@kleinlieu RT @nrrrdcore: Code of Conduct examples: http://indiewebcamp.com/code-of-conduct-examples (twitter.com/_/status/473578091734765569)
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@waterprinciple RT @nrrrdcore: Code of Conduct examples: http://indiewebcamp.com/code-of-conduct-examples (twitter.com/_/status/473578815390642176)
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tantek feels we're doing something right when @nrrrdcore tweets about pages on IndieWebCamp.com.
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tantek !tell aaronpk, benwerd, caseorganic, erinjo perhaps you IndieWebCamp 2014 West organizers/participants could reach out to @nrrrdcore to see if she would be interested in participating? She has her own site: http://julieannhorvath.com/
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi erinjo: tantek left you a message 2 minutes ago: perhaps you IndieWebCamp 2014 West organizers/participants could reach out to @nrrrdcore to see if she would be interested in participating? She has her own site: http://julieannhorvath.com/
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@indiewebcamp RT @nrrrdcore: Code of Conduct examples: http://indiewebcamp.com/code-of-conduct-examples (twitter.com/_/status/473581086434283520)
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tantek !tell aaronpk, perhaps Loqi could point out when a message is left for multiple people so that context isn't lost?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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perhaps hey Loqi
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Loqi perhaps: tantek left you a message 20 seconds ago: Loqi could point out when a message is left for multiple people so that context isn't lost?
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@taswyn RT @nrrrdcore: Code of Conduct examples: http://indiewebcamp.com/code-of-conduct-examples (twitter.com/_/status/473582912063803394)
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bear @tantek want me to ping her in our office chat about IWC 2014 West?
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tantek bear - totally!
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tantek and anyone else at &yet who has their own site or is passionate about having one.
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tantek bear, the main &yet office is in Seattle right? not far from Portland. Just an easy train ride away.
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tantek always helps to be invited by someone who is already going, especially a co-worker
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bear our office is in Richland WA, but she lives in Portland I think
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tantek oh wow - even better
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tantek besides, we can use some outreach to improve the diversity of attendees at IndieWebCamp and Homebrew Website Club events
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tantek per the recent notes by kylewm and others
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tantek e.g. https://kylewm.com/reply/2014/06/01/1
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bear emails the team letting them know about the event
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tantek thanks bear!
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bear yvw
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/473507324040974336/799574 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/note#IndieWeb_Examples (webmention)
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aaronpk here's an article that quotes Craig talking about "silos" http://www.theverge.com/2014/6/2/5772074/apple-healthkit-ios-8-announcement
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 47 minutes ago: perhaps you IndieWebCamp 2014 West organizers/participants could reach out to @nrrrdcore to see if she would be interested in participating? She has her own site: http://julieannhorvath.com/
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 43 minutes ago: Loqi could point out when a message is left for multiple people so that context isn't lost?
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aaronpk yeah good idea
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bear of interest to the python indieweb folk - http://certifi.io/en/latest/ verifying Certs for HTTPs requests in code
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@fwiffo RT @nrrrdcore: Code of Conduct examples: http://indiewebcamp.com/code-of-conduct-examples (twitter.com/_/status/473593633006833666)
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: is HealthKit un-silo-ing anything?
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aaronpk I think maybe sort of, but I want to dig into the APIs before I say for sure
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KartikPrabhu hmm cool
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aaronpk either that or it's just one giant silo to replace all the little silos
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aaronpk we'll see
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Loqi caseorganic: tantek left you a message 1 hour ago: perhaps you IndieWebCamp 2014 West organizers/participants could reach out to @nrrrdcore to see if she would be interested in participating? She has her own site: http://julieannhorvath.com/
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@KRGilbertson RT @nrrrdcore: Code of Conduct examples: http://indiewebcamp.com/code-of-conduct-examples (twitter.com/_/status/473604971334619136)
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