#indiewebcamp 2014-06-08

2014-06-08 UTC
#
tantek custom timelines sound cool
#
aaronpk and following the pattern of returning friendly HTML pages for endpoints when requested with no parameters, https://indieauth.com/auth should have some nice looking explanation of indieauth
j12t joined the channel
#
KevinMarks I suppose my noterlive logs are kind of custom timelines
#
KevinMarks wow, S3 is really fiddly and annoying to work with
#
tantek KevinMarks, please add to /S3 the details ;)
#
tantek GWG, you looking into posting old stuff online?
#
GWG Yes.
#
GWG So, the question is the best way to approach.
#
GWG Obviously I can't post 10,000 photographs
#
GWG I also can't identify them all
#
GWG I wasn't paying as much attention in 1983 as I should have
#
tantek how about breadth first?
#
tantek e.g. post *one* photo per year just so you have something in the archives for every year
#
tantek then once you're done with that, one for each month that doesn't have one
#
tantek then one per day
#
tantek etc.
#
GWG And I wasn't paying any attention in October of 1958.
#
tantek nice and incremental
#
GWG Which is one the photo I'm holding was taken
#
tantek oh it's not your photo then
#
GWG They are all mixed together
#
tantek if it's someone else's photo, then it's a repost ;)
#
GWG What if is it someone else's photo of me?
vanderwal joined the channel
#
tantek I mean - you can use "repost" if you want to put the original date in the info about the post
#
tantek you can also just post it as a new post today
#
GWG I'm just wondering how I'd date the thing if I was putting together an archive of some of these?
#
GWG As a new post, as I'm creating new content around the old?
#
GWG It won't be back from India for 10 weeks, so I suppose I have time.
#
tantek whoa
#
tantek take lots of photos! of course that only makes the archiving challenge harder :)
#
tantek is looking into /repost presentation, format, POSSE, etc.
#
GWG tantek: My archive on Smugmug, which is where I stored the family photos because I couldn't get anyone behind self-hosted, is tens of thousand of private photos, mostly unsorted.
#
GWG I want to do something with some of them
chrissaad joined the channel
#
GWG I know people post things on the Facebook timeline and such
#
tantek that makes sense
#
GWG I just don't know what the Indieweb equivalent is.
#
tantek doing something with some of them that is
#
tantek ideally the indieweb thing is just "importing" things to your archive in the past
#
KevinMarks isn't this how atom got multiple dates?
#
GWG I wonder if Wordpress would even let me set the date for that early?
#
tantek KevinMarks - I have no idea how to investigate how any particular decision in Atom was made. Have tried diving through the wiki unsuccessfully before.
#
tantek GWG - Flickr doesn't let you set the date to before you joined Flickr.
#
aaronpk obviously if the backend stores as unix time then you cna't backdate things before 1970
#
GWG Let me check
#
KevinMarks is dt-published what you want though?
#
KevinMarks I suppose you can define published as taken for a photo
#
tantek KevinMarks - I think by convention at least
#
tantek for photo posts
#
tantek although I think sites differ on this
#
aaronpk I believe flickr has two dates for a photo, "taken" and "published"
#
tantek Flickr certainly has separate date posted and date taken
#
tantek hah
#
tantek and then you get into the question of how much of EXIF shall we replicate in h-entry - or does it deserve its own
#
aaronpk h-photo seems reasonable
#
KevinMarks iirc hmedia was a big wrangle
#
aaronpk wont get there until he tries to import his entire flickr stream into his site
#
GWG Hey, it does let me set it pre-epoch
#
GWG http://tiny.n9n.us/1955/11/12/the-date-of-the-great-storm/
#
KevinMarks cool.
#
tantek KevinMarks: hmedia was pretty minimal in the end, it just suffered from the same "develop on an email list" as many things
#
aaronpk so w.r.t. an HTTP header for an endpoint to indicate it supports indieauth... any ideas on key/value?
#
GWG Not even a chuckle over my hastily written blurb?
#
GWG Oh, well.
#
tantek aaronpk - why not just return an error if it doesn't?
#
aaronpk tantek: because if it doesn't, it's a URL out of my control
#
aaronpk like in my previous example
#
tantek darn it I'm confused again
#
aaronpk k sorry. here's the situation
#
tantek can you put it in /IndieAuth#Brainstorming?
#
aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/login-brainstorming
#
aaronpk i'm here right now http://indiewebcamp.com/login-brainstorming#Discovery
#
tantek reads
#
gRegor` Nice clock tower example, GWG :)
#
aaronpk the client that's trying to sign aaronparecki.com in sees the authorization_endpoint value and needs to be able to show some nice error message if the value makes no sense or is not supported
#
aaronpk so the client needs to ask the endpoint "do you know what indieauth is"
#
GWG gRegor`: Maybe I should go in and show Mayor Thomas did not live up to his campaign promise.
#
aaronpk if the endpoint doesn't speak indieauth, the user should see some error like "the authorization endpoint found on your site is not understood by this server"
#
GWG gRegor`: Neither did Mayor Wilson.
#
tantek you mean if the user gets the auth endpoint wrong for example?
#
tantek like links to yahoo.com or something
#
aaronpk yeah
#
tantek why not just start the auth dance and handle the failure accordingly?
#
aaronpk cause I have an opportunity to present better errors ahead of time
#
tantek is that worth an extra http?
#
aaronpk and starting the auth dance means actually sending the user to that url
#
aaronpk and then it's out of my control again
#
tantek oh wow this *is* subtle
#
tantek you're trying to make an explicitly better user experience in a potentially common error case
#
tantek user-scenario user-friendliness driven protocol design - I like it
#
aaronpk the default (lazy) approach would result in directing the user to a URL like yahoo.com?me=aaronparecki.com&redirect_uri=indiewebcamp.com
#
aaronpk ux-driven protocol design! love it
#
tantek so you can ask a server if it supports "something" by using accept-* headers
#
aaronpk ah there we go
#
tantek so there's Accept for the mime/content type
#
tantek there's Accept-Charset
#
tantek Accept-Encoding
#
tantek Accept-Language
#
aaronpk those are all part of the request, right?
#
tantek right
#
tantek it's the "browser"'s way of saying, here's what I can handle in response to this request
#
aaronpk so in this case the client is asking "hey are you really an authorization endpoint?"
#
aaronpk so, Accept-Indieauth: authorization_endpoint
paulcp joined the channel
#
tantek problem is that it is unknown how random servers will respond to an Accept-Indieauth header
#
aaronpk (it's also possible that an endpoint can be both an authorization endpoint as well as a token endpoint)
#
tantek they may just ignore it
#
aaronpk i thought it was part of the spec that servers ignore unrecognized headers
#
tantek right, so you won't get an error
#
KevinMarks can you do a protocol version query?
#
tantek for servers that don't have what you're looking for
#
tantek aaronpk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HTTP_header_fields#Request_Headers
#
aaronpk oh maybe "Expect"?
#
aaronpk "Indicates that particular server behaviors are required by the client"
#
tantek could work
#
tantek or even Connection
#
tantek since you're expecting a special type of connection, one that authenticates and redirects!
#
KevinMarks Upgrade?
#
aaronpk i think connection and upgrade are about the tcp socket
#
KevinMarks is indieAuth a Content-Type?
#
tantek not really
#
KevinMarks application/json-indieauth
#
tantek it is more of an Expect
#
aaronpk ew no json
#
aaronpk http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2616#section-14.20
#
tantek like 301-oauth-dance
#
aaronpk the expect header is defined as either the string "100-continue" or some other string or key/value pair
#
tantek exactly - the some other string or key/value pair
#
tantek works great
#
tantek or should anyway
#
tantek if servers see an Expect they don't know understand, presumably they reject it
#
aaronpk getting mixed results with that, some ignore it and some return the presecribed http 417
#
aaronpk prescribed
#
tantek sounds like good results to document
#
tantek aaronpk, speaking of ux-driven protocol development, http://indiewebcamp.com/login-brainstorming could use screenshots for *every* step
#
tantek i.e. what is the user seeing at every step
#
tantek rather than trying to imagine/infer the interaction from just the protocol description
#
aaronpk heh yeah that was actually on my todo list
#
aaronpk has anybody ever used the "Expect" header for anything besides "100-continue"??
#
tantek not AFAIK. if only the "HTTP community" had a wiki...
#
aaronpk whoa there's an http "prefer" extension http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-snell-http-prefer-18
#
aaronpk that's different tho
brianloveswords joined the channel
#
kylewm !tell snarfed have to admit I'm kind of excited that people are using posse-post-discovery enough to find bugs in it ;)
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
snarfed joined the channel
#
Loqi snarfed: kylewm left you a message 1 minute ago: have to admit I'm kind of excited that people are using posse-post-discovery enough to find bugs in it ;)
#
snarfed kylewm: hell yeah!@
#
aaronpk yeah i'm not finding any info about the Expect header in the wild, other than people wondering what proxy servers do with it
#
tantek aaronpk, snarfed - did you guys have to patch anything because of last week's SSL bug? https://www.openssl.org/news/secadv_20140605.txt
#
aaronpk yeah, but not as much as last time because luckily a lot of my stuff uses amazon ELBs to terminate SSL and they upgraded all of those
#
tantek interesting
#
snarfed for personal stuff at least, i don't administer any ssl stacks directly (other than my laptop)
#
snarfed no full servers, either VM or bare machine. couldn't be happier :P
#
aaronpk yeah seriously
KevinMarks2 joined the channel
#
tantek snarfed, my thinking was that curl on servers would be vulnerable since it's built with openssl
#
tantek so you don't maintain any servers with curl? or if you do, your hosts upgraded it for you?
#
snarfed tantek: ahhh right! that vulnerability was client side
#
aaronpk it was both sides again
#
snarfed have to admit i haven't followed it closely. i should
#
tantek aaropnk - it was? my understanding was "client" only, but curl makes it apply to most servers too
#
aaronpk "The attack can only be performed between a vulnerable client *and* server"
#
aaronpk "Servers are only known to be vulnerable in OpenSSL 1.0.1 and 1.0.2-beta1"
#
aaronpk "OpenSSL 1.0.1 SSL/TLS users (client and/or server) should upgrade to 1.0.1h."
#
aaronpk from https://www.openssl.org/news/secadv_20140605.txt
#
tantek ok
dybskiy and paulcp joined the channel
#
aaronpk ok after more reading, looks like something along the lines of "Expect: indieauth=authorization_endpoint" makes the most sense.
#
aaronpk the next question is how does the server acknowledge that in the reply
#
tantek that looks good
#
aaronpk in the case of content-type, the client sends "Accept: text/html, text/plain" and the server will reply with "Content-type: text/plain"
#
tantek also makes sense
#
tantek though you want accept-charset: utf-8
#
tantek otherwise the server may default to something random
#
tantek due to the text/* defaults
#
aaronpk right, just pointing out that the request/response header names are different
#
tantek agreed
#
aaronpk could reply with "Endpoint: authorization_endpoint" or "IndieAuth: authorization_endpoint" or "Capability: authorization_endpoint"
#
aaronpk only existing response header that applies at all is Pragma "Implementation-specific headers that may have various effects anywhere along the request-response chain."
#
tantek oh pragma you extension point
#
tantek has anyone noticed that when you click reply in response to a retweet that it puts *both* the original author's @-name in the reply AND the @-name of the person who retweeted it?
#
tantek this makes me think that a retweet does contains some additional special metadata
#
aaronpk oh funny, didn't notice that but did see some replies to other peoples' RTs of my tweets that did that.
#
tantek so first question, anyway to get *both* such @-names from the Twitter API?
#
tantek so that when you write an indie reply - it auto-fills with both?
#
tantek also - I'm pretty sure that retweets actually get their own tweet ids
#
tantek (though I have no proof)
#
aaronpk i believe they do
#
aaronpk check IRC logs here
#
tantek so when you write a reply to a retweet, it should be in-reply-to the tweet id of the *retweet* right, rather than the tweet?
#
aaronpk follow the redirect chain on https://twitter.com/_/status/475184834571034624
#
@djp1974 RT @withknown: Working to bridge the #indieweb knowledge gap http://stream.withknown.com/2014/working-to-bridge-the-indieweb-knowledge-gap (twitter.com/_/status/475184834571034624)
#
tantek how? is there a verbose mode for curl to do that?
#
aaronpk curl -I
#
aaronpk oh that's cool, that means you don't even need to use the API to find out the two usernames given a tweet ID, cause you can just look at the username segment of each URL in the Location headers that come back
#
tantek right
#
tantek see this is what happens when I even *think* about implementing a *small* version of a feature in Falcon. :/
#
aaronpk oh right and Loqi shows @djp1974 as the author of that tweet because the API returns the person who RT'd it and the text shows the legact "RT" text
#
tantek right
#
tantek oh boy
#
tantek it might make sense to store the entire retweet chain
#
tantek assuming a retweet went through multiple people before it got to you
#
tantek e.g.: retweet of retweet of retweet of original tweet
#
aaronpk does the api support that?
#
tantek the *UI* supports that
#
aaronpk i don't think it does... cause I think the RT button indicates that i'd be retweeting the original
#
tantek when you retweet something, Twitter remembers how you saw it and appends your retweet to the existing retweet chain if any
#
tantek and then if someone @-replies to your retweet, they see the full chain of @-names that the retweet went through
#
tantek not just 2
#
aaronpk really? example?
#
aaronpk i'm gonna try this on my test acct
#
tantek we should check the logs again
#
Loqi definitely
#
tantek pretty sure there were some retweets of retweets this past week
#
aaronpk when I click the RT button, the dialog that appears says "Retweet this to your followers?" and does not include the person who RTd it
#
tantek of course it doesn't - that's transparent to you
#
tantek but twitter is doing it by tweet id
#
tantek of the tweet that *YOU SAW*
#
tantek which may be a retweet
#
tantek so they get chained
#
tantek so here's the reason you should keep the full chain
#
tantek if someone deletes one of the intermediate retweet accounts
#
tantek then the chain may be broken
#
tantek gosh I wonder what Twitter does
#
tantek A tweets. B retweets A. C retweets B. B deletes their account. What happens to C''s retweet?
#
tantek what *should* happen?
#
tantek for now I'm going to decide to store entire retweet chains
#
tantek in Falcon (for when I implement reposts of tweets)
#
aaronpk just tested a RT of an RT
#
aaronpk confirmed that it does not include the entire chain
tantek_ joined the channel
#
tantek_ aaronpk it matters if the accounts were all following each other or not
#
aaronpk oh dear
#
aaronpk tries again
#
tantek e.g. if you have 3 accounts like above, B must only follow A, C must only follow B
#
tantek and if you are *viewing* the retweet with an attempt to reply and see a chain
#
tantek then you need to be viewing from an account D that only follows C
#
aaronpk oh my. too complicated.
snarfed joined the channel
#
tantek pretty sure you only see a retweet once, from the first person who retweets it that you're following
#
tantek and if you were already following the original tweeter - you don't see any retweets of it
#
tantek people retweeting a tweet cannot cause it to show up multiple times in your stream, or even to cause it to keep bubbling up to the top
#
aaronpk HA get this... I just got an email from twitter:
#
aaronpk "@spampk retweeted one of your Retweets!"
#
tantek ok see that's what I'm talking about!
#
tantek goodness, that would be another homepage webmention usecase
#
tantek spampk.example.com retweeted one of your retweets!
#
tantek er
#
tantek spampk.example.com reposted one of your reposts!
#
tantek hmm, perhaps every email is a homepage webmention use-case.
#
tantek or indicative of a potential one
paulcp_ joined the channel
#
aaronpk goes back to figuring out what to call this http header
#
tantek sorry about the retweetception
#
tantek there's some sort of default recursion test that I automatically think about on operations like this
#
aaronpk i'm pretty sure at some point in the near future some pair of people is going to create a chain of replies/reposts that infinitely recurses and floods both people's mentions stream
#
tantek you mean on the indieweb?
#
tantek pretty sure silos can prevent that
#
aaronpk yea
#
tantek uh oh
#
tantek someone writes a post. someone reposts it. original author updates his post to be repost of the repost. boom.
#
tantek of course I'm sure everyone here who has implemented repost has already solved this problem somehow ;)
#
aaronpk i'm sure
#
@jmenglund03 Boo. No #indiewebcamp sessions in the #Minneapolis area this year. http://indiewebcamp.com/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/475460333390536704)
#
aaronpk so... Pragme?
#
aaronpk ma
#
tantek oh @ jmenglund03 I think we'll have a surprise for you on 2014-06-18 :D
#
@aaronpk @jmenglund03 Start by joining Homebrew Website Club with us every other Wednesday! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-06-18-homebrew-website-club We have... http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/06/07/1/indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/475462330436681728)
#
Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/06/07/1/indieweb linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-06-18-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
#
tantek.com edited /Falcon (+1425) "new itch: simple repost of tweets support" (view diff)
#
tantek ok time to change location again. just wanted to capture that several level deep brainstorm on implementation design for simple repost of tweets.
#
tantek maybe that's not simple
#
aaronpk seems like Pragma was really only used for cache/no-cache, and then those were moved to their own headers later
#
Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/aaronpk/475462330436681728/11628 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-06-18-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
JasonO joined the channel
#
Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/aaronpk/475462330436681728/475469967375077377 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-06-18-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
j12t joined the channel
#
aaronpk oh man pbworks is the worst
dybskiy joined the channel
#
aaronpk managed to get a download of the wiki.oauth.net site but it doesn't include all the pages, because the "all pages" list loads the list via javascript
tantek and obenns joined the channel
#
tantek aaronpk, here's a stub, feel free to add a Criticism section: http://indiewebcamp.com/PBWorks
#
tantek even just what you minimally said
obenns joined the channel
#
@macfarlandian RT @withknown: "The era of Facebook is an anomaly. The idea of everybody going to one site is just weird." http://www.theverge.com/2014/3/13/5488558/danah-boyd-interview-the-era-of-facebook-is-an-anomaly #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/475491135733788673)
#
kylewm aaronpk: when you have a chance, could you remove me from the ownyourgram users table? i want to try to reregister with the https address
#
kylewm aaronpk: nm, it looks like it re-discovers the endpoints whenever you sign in. i'll keep looking
#
KevinMarks retweets do have their own ID
obenns joined the channel
#
tantek welcome back KevinMarks - the question is, how deep do retweets of retweets go?
gRegor` joined the channel
#
KevinMarks i think it just shows one layer (you and source) but can chain the replies.
#
KevinMarks https://dev.twitter.com/docs/api/1/post/statuses/retweet/%3Aid
#
KevinMarks you get a retweeted_status nested inside the response
obenns, snarfed, dybskiy and KevinMarks2 joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /Falcon (+65) "/* simple repost of tweets */ link Twitter retweet API" (view diff)
#
KevinMarks2 Hmm a house near mine is up for sale, and the realtor has registered it's address as a domain
#
KevinMarks2 Interesting approach to geolocation
#
KevinMarks2 Wonder if I should preemptively register my house added
#
KevinMarks2 s/added/address/
#
Loqi KevinMarks2 meant to say: Wonder if I should preemptively register my house address
pauloppenheim joined the channel
#
kylewm !tell aaronpk ok i admit defeat. was trying to figure out why ownyourgram doesn't see my new updates anymore... i think that this function should be receiving the real-time updates https://github.com/aaronpk/OwnYourGram/blob/master/controllers/controllers.php#L157 , but couldn't for the life of me find where it subscribes to them.
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
@democracy My non-profit @edemo connects 30% of my neighbors (1300 folks) and more. How would you #indieweb it? Note http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/mpls-staneric (twitter.com/_/status/475507824236462080)
dybskiy, dybskiy_ and CaptainCalliope joined the channel
#
aaronpk KevinMarks2: I registered my street name as a domain so that I could have a subdomain for the address number
#
Loqi aaronpk: kylewm left you a message 57 minutes ago: ok i admit defeat. was trying to figure out why ownyourgram doesn't see my new updates anymore... i think that this function should be receiving the real-time updates https://github.com/aaronpk/OwnYourGram/blob/master/controllers/controllers.php#L157 , but couldn't for the life of me find where it subscribes to them.
#
aaronpk kylewm: sorry, was out at dinner with friends!
#
aaronpk but now it's late. will check back in the morning.
dybskiy joined the channel
#
KevinMarks2 Well, a domain per house is less siloed. The realtor can hand it over with the keys
KevinMarks2, dybskiy, eschnou, paulcp, friedcell, petermolnar, Kopfstein and tpinto joined the channel
#
KevinMarks hm. static hosting on google is a lot less of a bugger than on amazon
Kopfstein, squeakytoy, dybskiy, eschnou, krendil_, paulcp, tpinto, bnvk, hidgw, NoOne, BjornW and v0 joined the channel
#
@elearningshow How we're on the verge of an amazing new open web #indieweb - http://werd.io/2014/how-were-on-the-verge-of-an-amazing-new-open (twitter.com/_/status/475627104990924800)
tantek, eschnou, v0, dybskiy and paulcp joined the channel
#
bnvk is contemplating the nature of a "temporary subscription"
#
tantek bnvk - totally makes sense, e.g. during an event and maybe a week after
#
bnvk tantek: yah, events for sure- great connection
#
bnvk the idea popped into my head re: people on Twitter responding to my post- who I don't follow, who don't follow me
#
tantek right, temprorary follows
#
bnvk the whole pub/sub model is always fixed relationships that require later steps to undo
#
tantek precisely
#
bnvk since IW is cross platform, it would be awesome to say "notify all people involved in conversation X of new conversation Y"
#
tantek I want to be able to temporarily follow everyone speaking at an event, maybe even everyone *attending* the event, during the event, and then maybe a week later.
#
bnvk ooo, that's another case I hadn't considered :)
#
bnvk glad you're awake
#
bnvk is there any page on the wiki about these concepts?
#
tantek not afaik
#
bnvk hrm
#
tantek I prefer "follow" rather than "subscribe" because "follow" is more human-centric
#
bnvk good call
#
tantek whereas "subscription" is more of a feed / plumbing like term
#
bnvk yep
#
tantek bnvk, want to start http://indiewebcamp.com/follow ? and add a section on "Brainstorming" with "Temporary" ?
#
bnvk oh, wow, there's no page for Follow? Crazy
#
tantek See Also: [[reader]]
#
tantek :)
#
tantek yeah! start it!
#
tantek I'm off to go for a run. hope that was helpful!
#
bnvk cheers
#
tantek we have discussed follow and following in a bunch of pages & sessions - perhaps link to those too: http://indiewebcamp.com/Special:Search/follow
#
bnvk noted
#
tantek hmm looks like just two
#
tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/2012/OpenFollow
#
tantek and related: http://indiewebcamp.com/2012/Demos#Open_Follow
dariusdunlap joined the channel
#
tantek see also /subtome
#
tantek a-ha we do have this: http://indiewebcamp.com/friending
dybskiy joined the channel
#
brennannovak.com created /follow (+1507) "Created page with "A Follow is the concept of establishing a digital relationship to another person or entity so that you can receive updates from them. The verb use and action was first implemente..."" (view diff)
#
tantek also related http://indiewebcamp.com/consuming
#
tantek ok that's all the searchings. :)
#
tantek ttyl!
#
bnvk cool
tantek, chrissaad, eschnou, paulcp, trodrigues, PMurphs, JonathanNeal, pdurbin, snarfed, dybskiy and dybskiy_ joined the channel
#
snarfed huh. has facebook set default userrnames for all users?
#
snarfed looks like firstname.middlenamelastname[number]
#
GWG looked at the latest post discovery conversation.
edge226 joined the channel
#
GWG What about post title?
#
snarfed GWG: context?
#
snarfed are you talking about https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/171#issuecomment-45440401 ?
brianloveswords joined the channel
#
GWG Trying to figure out how to poll for syndication links.
#
GWG snarfed, yes
#
kylewm snarfed: what makes you think they have default usernames?
#
snarfed kylewm: anecdotal evidence and nothing more :P
#
kylewm i still have friends whose profile page is profile.php?id=...
#
snarfed kylewm: ah, ok. so they definitely don't have a username?
#
snarfed if you go to facebook.com/USERID, it doesn't redirect?
#
snarfed GWG: cool. i haven't actually read it yet. i will. maybe kylewm can answer
#
kylewm no it redirects to profile.php?id=USeRID
#
kylewm so yes it does redirect, but not to a username :)
#
kylewm GWG: what was the question?
#
snarfed kylewm: interesting. could you send me that url?
#
kylewm https://www.facebook.com/316290
#
GWG I am just wondering if the post title could be used to reduce polling. Usually the syndicated post has the same text /title
#
snarfed kylewm: perfect, thanks. just as well i'm not a scientist
#
aaronpk good morning!
#
bret mornin aaronpk
#
GWG Morning
#
bret hey GWG
#
bret im GOING to get this micropub working today
#
snarfed GWG: sometimes but not always. e.g. i usually syndicate articles w/custom teaser text for silos
#
aaronpk bret: yay!
#
Loqi giggles
#
aaronpk i'm around most of today
#
bret snarfed, your brothers photos are great btw :)
#
snarfed GWG: e.g. https://snarfed.org/2014-06-07_johnny-the-instagram-artist vs https://twitter.com/schnarfed/status/475421460060594176
#
@schnarfed My cousin @TheJohnnySmith is doing amazing work on Instagram right now. Really really fun. You should check it out. https://snarfed.org/2014-06-07_johnny-the-instagram-artist (twitter.com/_/status/475421460060594176)
#
snarfed bret: aww thanks! (cousin.) yeah, he's great. i'll pass on the kind words
#
aaronpk kylewm: I think I figured out why your ownyourgram isn't working
#
bret why did I read brother
#
bret o.0
#
kylewm aaronpk: oh rly??
#
GWG multiple use cases always get me
#
kylewm I thought I would run it locally and figure it out and impress you, but i did not :)
#
snarfed kylewm: thanks for writing up that proposal btw! i'll review it soon
#
aaronpk you now have two user records, one for http and one for https. and they both have the same instagram user id. so when the instagram post comes in, it's matching the wrong user record!
#
kylewm ohhhhh
#
kylewm that makes sense
#
snarfed or maybe it's matching the RIGHT user record
#
snarfed DUM DUM DUMMMMM
#
snarfed …ok that's my cue, it's time for breakfast
#
aaronpk and this can technically happen with completely different domains, it's not just the http/https problem
#
bret lol
#
aaronpk so really I just need to invalidate the instagram credentials for any previous users that matched the same instagram id
#
kylewm aaronpk: where/when does the subscription happen? I thought it would have to call /api/subscriptions/user somewhere in the code, but couldn't find it
#
kylewm snarfed: sure thing, yet another rabbit hole :P
#
GWG kylewm, there seems to be a lot of them
#
aaronpk kylewm: the subscription is for the entire app. the app subscribes to get updates one time, and then any user that has authorized the app results in a notification being sent
#
bret aaronpk does ownyourgram confirm the endpoint url each time it posts?
#
aaronpk what do you mean confirm?
#
bret err i guess thats the wrong word. look up the correct endpoint url
#
bret so if I change it, it will detect it
#
aaronpk no, but it does each time you sign in
#
bret ah ok
brianloveswords joined the channel
#
kylewm aaronpk: awesome, thank you for looking into it. let me know if i can help (test/etc)
dybskiy joined the channel
#
aaronpk alright give it a shot! try logging in again
#
kylewm OK so i logged in to oyg and then posted a photo on IG, and it didn't seem to see it
edge226 joined the channel
#
aaronpk that's odd... why didn't that work. i just tested it locally.
#
aaronpk oh right cause it didn't make you re-auth with instagram
#
aaronpk just click this for now https://ownyourgram.com/auth/instagram
tantek joined the channel
#
aaronpk there we go
#
kylewm it worked!!! aaronpk you're my hero
Hodgestar joined the channel
#
aaronpk yay!
#
Loqi yay!
#
tantek yay!
#
Loqi does a happy dance!
#
kylewm does a happy dance!
#
KartikPrabhu takes embarrassing picture of kylewm happy dancing with Loqi
#
Loqi who, me?
#
kylewm is re-authorizing instagram what triggered it to invalidate the old one?
#
aaronpk yeah
#
aaronpk which is what would have happened if this code were in place when you switched from http to https
#
GWG Who uses HTML5 article tags on their site?
#
aaronpk or if you changed your domain
#
KartikPrabhu GWG: me
#
bret i used it, not sure why
#
GWG bret: Not sure why?
#
bret yeah didn't do anything
#
GWG KartikPrabhu: Looking for a good example of mixing HTML5 and MF2
#
bret its basically just a css selector
#
GWG bret: I figure, if I'm going standards compliant, I might as well be all in
#
KartikPrabhu bret: i don't think it i supposed to do anything
#
GWG It is used to markup the page.
#
GWG The same way other standards are.
#
KartikPrabhu GWG: here is the latest one: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/inline-svg-icons <article> with h-entry on it
#
KartikPrabhu i think <article> has similar semantics to h-entry
#
tantek KartikPrabhu: indeed
#
aaronpk so it turns out archiving a web page and maintaining all the permalinks is harder than initially expected
#
tantek I use <article>
#
tantek but I've noticed that it's not quite the same as h-entry
#
tantek or perhaps <article> wasn't really well designed (it was designed more a priori)
#
bret wait, does article provide an implied context?
#
tantek bret - a lot about <article> is underspecified
#
tantek it's not that useful to consuming software
#
bret what is it useful for, other than making me feel all html5vy
#
GWG tantek: As a formats expert, what would you suggest?
#
tantek in fact, I haven't really see any good parsers of <article> that actually DO something interesting with it
#
tantek I'm still trying out <article> as I do with HTML5 stuff in general
#
GWG I'm trying to be prepared.
#
tantek to at least give it a chance - by publishing maybe someone will figure out something interesting to do with it
#
tantek or it may turn out to be unnecessary in contrast to h-entry
#
tantek here's a good example: http://tantek.com/2014/156/t2/pdf14-thanks-kind-words-indieweb-talk
#
tantek note that the h-entry contains the /reply-context whereas the <article> is only about the content I wrote
#
tantek because that's my interpretation of the definition of <article>
#
bret tantek could it be some kind of fallback implied property for mf2?
#
KartikPrabhu tantek: in that sense all the semantics can be in mf2, and all html would be divs...
#
tantek bret - people tried defining <article> based fallbacks to convert to Atom semantics and failed horribly in the HTMLWG in the late 2000s
#
tantek not interested in rewalking that path
#
bret lol ok, see I wouldnt know this otherwise ^_^
#
tantek heh
#
KevinMarks so I got my site mirrored onto google storage: http://g.kevinmarks.com/ but on Amazon I get "your princess is in another castle" errors: http://a.kevinmarks.com/
#
GWG I'm just marking up the content as best possible. But I only know one use case for article I've done.
#
bret i tried to make <article> useful as a css selector basically
#
KevinMarks I think amazon doesn't like it if you accidentally mix oregon and california servers
#
bret but i should correct my reply contex to be outside the article tag now!
#
aaronpk KevinMarks: looks like the cname from a.kevinmarks.com is point to west, are your files in east?
#
tantek bret I don't depend on any HTML5 for CSS selectors because I want to support CSS styling in pre-HTML5 browsers
#
tantek though that's likely a minority concern
#
aaronpk they're essentially completely separate systems, not connected whatsoever except for billing
#
tantek i.e. I style .article instead of article tag
#
GWG tantek: What about <section> and such?
#
bret see, i want to punnish people who run old browsers
#
bret loljk
#
@RikMende just found this amazing piece of code : http://www.salut-a-toi.org/overview.html #SáT #salutáToi #indieweb #federated #jabber (twitter.com/_/status/475682984738451456)
#
tantek haha section
#
Loqi nice
#
tantek GWG see: http://microformats.org/wiki/section
#
bret indiexmpp
#
tantek wat
#
bret trolls
#
KartikPrabhu oh ok. I thought tantek would on his "section" tirade :P
#
tantek KartikPrabhu: yes. see URL. :D
#
tantek bret careful about mentioning xmpp, you might wake up bear.
#
GWG This is helping
#
bret thats fine with me :)
#
aaronpk anybody have experience with warc files?
#
tantek markmhendrickson: hey ping and note the micropub discussion above! Wonder how hard it would be for #asheville to support micropub for posting to indieweb sites.
gRegor` joined the channel
#
aaronpk i'm wondering if creating a warc file then serving from it directly is going to be a better bet than using this wget archive
#
KevinMarks isn't the <article> stuff the legacy of outliner thinking? http://html5doctor.com/outlines/
#
tantek KevinMarks: nah, it's beyond outlines. it's <section> and <heading> that were outliner thinking legacy
#
tantek anyway - I'm still trying it out. It might easily be shown to be useless.
#
GWG Being as I'm reviewing my base markup, anything else I should consider?
#
KartikPrabhu GWG: I have found that http://html5doctor.com/element-index/ is your friend... mostly
#
GWG KartikPrabhu: I'm redoing my theme again to incorporate some things and want to cover all.
#
KartikPrabhu GWG: my strategy has been to "find out what I want to do" "look for element that sort of matches it"
#
KartikPrabhu hard to go in and try to "cover all" when you might not know what all is
#
GWG Good point.
#
tantek better to start from the other end
#
tantek what's the minimum you can make work?
#
tantek rather than cover all
#
tantek and then iterate and add only as/when needed
#
GWG I want to fix some of the mistakes I made the first time doing this.
#
GWG But, I'm jumping around alot.
#
aaronpk good news! gittip accepted my suggestion to add a URL profile field verified by reciprocal rel=me links! https://github.com/gittip/www.gittip.com/issues/2477
#
KartikPrabhu rel=me++
#
KartikPrabhu ooo did I confuse Loqi?
realzies joined the channel
#
bret low priority, but trivial
#
bret sweet aaronpk!
#
aaronpk poor pbworks servers. i'm thrashing them like crazy
#
kylewm ooh that's cool about gittip
#
kylewm speaking of, diff anyone else have a weird credit card failure this week on gittip?
dybskiy joined the channel
#
aaronpk yeah they're on it
#
aaronpk something with their backend processor. i saw some notes fly by in their IRC
#
kylewm OK, I didn't want to reenter my info
#
bret aaronpk interested in meeting up for some indieweb hacking this morning?
#
aaronpk bret: sure!
#
bret sweet! im about to head out on my bike, where should I meet you?
#
aaronpk hm something with a patio and outlets would be nice
#
GWG What is everyone working on, out of curiousity? Indieweb wise?
#
GWG I like to be inspired.
#
bret micropub
#
bret "D
#
bret :D*
#
aaronpk bret: do you need actual food or did you already eat breakfast?
#
bret im cofeed up
#
bret and bageled
#
bret ill probrably need to get lunch around 1 or 2
#
bret You?
#
aaronpk how bout start at Ford, and we can get lunch at Teote later. I ate breakfast at 8.
#
bret ford food and drink?
#
aaronpk yep
#
bret ok ill be there in like 25ish minuts
#
aaronpk sounds good!
#
aaronpk i'll put a thing on swarm and see if anyone else shows up too
#
bret lol google maps doesnt know about fleet week
#
bret yeah sounds good
eschnou joined the channel
#
bret GWG have you set up ownyourgram?
#
aaronparecki.com edited /PBWorks (+583) "add criticism and stub archive section" (view diff)
#
aaronparecki.com edited /wget (+792) "/* Archive a Site */ better flags for wget to archive a site, and add sample nginx config to serve an archive" (view diff)
#
tantek GWG, I'm working on http://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#simple_repost_of_tweets
#
GWG bret: I don't have an Instagram account
#
GWG tantek: I use your site for inspiration sometimes. Along with others here.
#
bret aaronpk actually i cant find my debt card
#
bret havent left yet :[
#
bret ok found it see ya soon
#
tantek GWG, thanks, glad to hear it. I'll keep documenting every incremental thing I support to be transparent about it.
#
tantek bbiab
KevinMarks2 and tantek joined the channel
#
aaronpk oh man... the last step (i think) of this archive is figuring out how to serve these images http://wiki.oauth.net/theme_image.php?seg=e&colortime=1220488986
#
aaronpk note to self: *never* serve images from dynamic php scripts using query string parameters to choose the image
#
tantek wow that's nuts
#
aaronpk here's an interesting question for anyone familiar with nginx... I have a filename on disk called theme_image.php?seg=g&colortime=1220488986 (yes, with ? = and &), now can I make nginx serve that file?
#
tantek is the theme necessary?
#
aaronpk not strictly, but it looks broken without
#
tantek ah, you want to just serve a mirror before converting to mediawiki
#
aaronpk i don't even want to convert it to mediawiki
#
aaronpk i just want to archive it for historic purposes
#
tantek static archive. got it.
#
tantek did you get history?
#
aaronpk yeah, it comes through cause it's all linked
#
aaronpk keeping the history available was one of the requirements of this archive
#
tantek ok that's very cool
#
tantek thanks for documenting the challenges on /PBWorks
#
aaronpk i'll have more in a bit
#
tantek I'm going to want to export all of my pbwiki with history at some point and will follow your footsteps
#
GWG tantek: I may mimic some of your design elements, but I'm not sure I like the main page design.
#
tantek use what works for you - ignore the rest :)
dybskiy joined the channel
#
tantek GWG - main page of my home page or wiki silo?
#
aaronpk yeah I just want to turn off query string processing in nginx... is that even possible?
#
aaronpk asking in #nginx now...
j12t joined the channel
#
GWG tantek: Your home page.
#
tantek ok
#
GWG tantek: I find the entries run together visually
#
tantek aaronpk - that gittip issue thread makes me think we should explicitly document "how to check that the website belongs to you" as a use-case
#
tantek GWG - check out adactio.com for an alternative home page with composite stream
#
aaronpk bret: title.replace(/[^a-z0-9]+/,'-').replace(/-$/,'')
#
aaronpk bret: actually title.replace(/[^a-z0-9]+/gi,'-').replace(/-$/,'') works great
#
GWG tantek: I like his composite date orgnization
eschnou joined the channel
#
GWG tantek: But, the same problem visually. Without a title, which notes typically don't have, you need a visual separator.
#
KartikPrabhu here how about my notes: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes :)
#
GWG Your head is sort of a visual separator
#
GWG I may do a line
#
GWG Like this
#
GWG http://venturebeat.com/category/deals/
#
GWG That's an article, but ruled lines can work
#
KartikPrabhu yeah lines usually are good separators
#
bret KartikPrabhu: im sorry to ask this again. what is your host?
#
KartikPrabhu bret: webfaction
#
GWG I'm running a Linode myself.
#
GWG Test site is on a cheaper but less reliable provider
#
aaronpk wow that was obscure but managed to get it to work!
#
aaronpk i'm just glad whoever set up the oauth wiki used a cname from wiki.oauth.net to the pbworks system so I don't have to break any URLs to move off of pbworks
#
KartikPrabhu much complex so strange
#
aaronpk wait til you see my writeup
#
GWG KartikPrabhu: Do you know anyone who uses a magazine style layout for an Indieweb type site?
#
KartikPrabhu GWG: magazine as in?
dybskiy joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu what's a non-indieweb magazine style?
#
bret KartikPrabhu++
#
Loqi KartikPrabhu has 31 karma
#
KartikPrabhu ooo I get pluses :D
#
GWG KartikPrabhu+0.1
#
bret GWG++
#
Loqi GWG has 7 karma
squeakytoy joined the channel
#
kylewm posting from OwnYourGram -> my site -> Twitter is such a better experience than Instagram -> Twitter (in that it actually shows the photo, as opposed to an opaque instagram link)
#
@n0v0id #Google graveyard lists all deceased #cloud services so far: http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2013/03/google-graveyard-does-exist-you-can-even-place-flowers-on-your-deceased-favourites/ #dezentralization #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/475717484985987072)
#
GWG When can I redeem my karma for something?
#
aaronpk kylewm: oo do you have proper native photo posting to twitter from your site?
#
kylewm I do!
#
aaronpk nice!
#
kylewm I want to fix up my facebook implementation too, I currently post a link to the page with the picture as the preview, but it looks bad. would rather post it as a proper 'photo'
#
kylewm.com edited /Instagram (+18) "/* IndieWeb Implementations */ OwnYourGram!" (view diff)
#
aaronpk oh hey thanks
#
kylewm Adding my humblebrag about better twitter UX too :)
tantek joined the channel
#
tantek WordPress users, what does it mean when a site says this?
#
tantek " Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 41943040 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 32 bytes) in /home/johnkrol/public_html/wp-includes/post.php on line 1961"
#
tantek e.g. from http://yottabytes.info/?p=10497
#
GWG I've seen that before
#
GWG But i can't remember what I did about it
#
KartikPrabhu tantek: i got that from that site too...
#
tantek.com edited /WordPress (+366) "/* Problems */ Fatal Error memory exhausted" (view diff)
#
kylewm.com edited /Instagram (+650) "/* Criticism */ add bad silo interop" (view diff)
#
tantek GWG - well if you remember, feel free to document here: http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress#Fatal_Error_memory_exhausted
#
tantek.com edited /WordPress (+8) "/* Fatal Error memory exhausted */ e.g. on" (view diff)
#
kylewm.com edited /Instagram (-1) "/* Bad Silo Interop with Twitter */ mediawiki != markdown, oops!" (view diff)
#
GWG tantek: I think it is a server configuration problem
#
aaronpk it totally depends on the site. looks like the server is configured with a relatively low memory limit, and something is causing the site to use more memory than that
#
aaronpk if you can admin the server, you can raise php's memory limit
#
aaronpk or you could try to find which plugin is causing it to use that much memory
#
GWG aaronpk: That much memory being allocated seems to be wrong
#
aaronpk yeah, probably a rogue plugin somewhere
#
GWG I'd disable all plugins.
#
GWG Also, who is the host?
#
aaronparecki.com edited /PBWorks (+4991) "add docs on how to archive a pbworks site to flat files" (view diff)
#
aaronpk tantek: http://indiewebcamp.com/PBWorks#How_to_Archive
#
aaronpk holy crap
#
aaronpk that was an adventure
#
Loqi hehe
#
aaronparecki.com edited /PBWorks (+119) "/* How to Archive */ explicitly note that permalinks stay intact" (view diff)
#
aaronparecki.com edited /PBWorks (-14) "/* Configure nginx to serve the archive */ don't need to clear the types hash" (view diff)
#
aaronpk aaand dns is updated for wiki.oauth.net, will be a static site soon!
#
aaronpk *whew*
j12t, nloadholtes, gRegor`, iangreenleaf, erikmaarten, dybskiy and dybskiy_ joined the channel
#
bret aaronpk++
#
Loqi aaronpk has 483 karma
#
aaronpk yay bret now has photos on his site!!
#
bret w00t
#
bret got the endpoint into a working condition
#
aaronpk nope.... not quite ready to switch over to a static site. pbworks is weiiiirdddd
tantek, dybskiy and dybskiy_ joined the channel
#
bret.io edited /micropub-endpoint (+195) "/* Indieweb Examples */ Added my implementation to the list" (view diff)
#
aaronpk hooray!
#
GWG Hazzah!
#
tantek yay!
#
Loqi does a happy dance!
#
aaronpk "Now I get to use my $3 billion dollar app"
#
GWG aaronpk: What?
#
aaronpk bret said that lol
#
aaronpk you know...cause instagram was purchased for $3b
#
GWG I don't even have an Instagram account.
#
GWG Anything I can't post to from my computer or mobile device...
#
bret GWG: i opened one to work on this
#
bret you could also work on quill
#
aaronpk instagram is definitely a specific use case, but I like it for posting photo notes
#
aaronpk it's definitely different from how I use flickr and how I treat my actual photo archives
#
GWG It just doesn't support my use cases.
snarfed, barnabywalters and dybskiy joined the channel
#
bret GWG: what about http://quill.p3k.io/ ?
#
GWG I don't have a micropub endpoint, I think
#
@kevinmarks "@timbray: @gnat @pmarca So blog on your own damn domain and take care of it. It’s not bloody rocket science." #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/475762439221686272)
#
bret no you gotta make one, but it isn't too bad
#
aaronpk original tweet: https://twitter.com/timbray/status/475736342731571200
#
@timbray @gnat @pmarca So blog on your own damn domain and take care of it. It’s not bloody rocket science. (twitter.com/_/status/475736342731571200)
#
aaronpk someone's gotta make a micropub endpoint for wordpress!
#
GWG bret: I'm already building two Wordpress plugins and yet another Wordpress theme.
#
GWG How many projects can I take on simultaneously?
#
bret all the projects!
#
bret ;)
#
GWG bret: Talk to pfefferle, he did the webmentions one. Maybe he's at the right point to take on something new.
#
bret hehe ok
#
GWG I'm still working on my own selfish needs
#
aaronpk as it should be
#
GWG The Taxonomy plugin that will let me do replies, reposts, likes, etc.
#
GWG But I am writing it with help from acegiak, because I want others to benefit
#
GWG I have the stable Semantic Comments plugin.
#
GWG So I can leave that aside for a bit. I don't think anyone other than me is using it
#
GWG And then I'm working on more improvements to the theme I wrote, so I'm building it back up from scratch.
#
GWG Well, not quite scratch. I'm doing some cut and paste.
caseorganic joined the channel
#
barnabywalters good evening #indiewebcamp
#
GWG barnabywalters: How are things in the land of Ice?
#
barnabywalters GWG: light. all. the. time. difficult to sleep
#
aaronpk ooh
#
bret barnabywalters++
#
Loqi barnabywalters has 41 karma
#
barnabywalters but otherwise awesome. actually got sunburnt yesterday!
#
barnabywalters is someone here repeatedly re-sending webmentions for https://brennannovak.com/notes/412?
#
barnabywalters it keeps popping up in my mentions feed, again and again
#
GWG barnabywalters: I keep meaning to ask....since I don't speak Icelandic...what does your employer do?
#
GWG I keep looking at people's webpages to see who I'm talking to.
#
barnabywalters not sure if there’s a bug somewhere or if someone’s spamming/joking with me
#
aaronpk probably a bug somewhere...
#
barnabywalters GWG: that’s one of the nice things about having personal sites, right :)
#
barnabywalters GWG: the companry I work for makes surveys for many of iceland’s schools
#
GWG Yes.
#
GWG barnabywalters: Sounds interesting
#
@bretolius Using my Billion Dollar App to automatically post photos to my personal domain http://instagram.com/physisima -> http://bret.io #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/475765457996505088)
dariusdunlap and caseorganic joined the channel
#
GWG barnabywalters: How much metadata do you attach to each note/article/etc?
#
GWG I'm trying to figure something out, and need some jogging of my thoughts.
#
barnabywalters GWG: what specifically are you trying to figure out?
#
bret i use front-matter for mine, but aaronpk break that kind of stuff out into a separate file
#
bret breaks*
#
aaronpk no mine's in the frontmatter too
#
aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/p3k/issues/1
#
barnabywalters my notes are in the frontmatter, just to be different :P
#
bret im sorry replies and contexts are separate
#
barnabywalters GWG: here’s a rather old example: https://gist.github.com/barnabywalters/82faf439ce3bec316961
#
GWG barnabywalters: Well, several things.
#
GWG barnabywalters: First, I've created a custom 'kind' taxonomy in Wordpress for types. I had to use kind as type is a reserved word.
#
GWG This would be things like like, reply, repost, etc..
#
GWG Trying to figure out if I should have both favorite and like.
#
GWG And what else is missing
#
barnabywalters GWG: do you want to use both favourite and like? if so, how do they differ?
#
aaronpk whee https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5566/14354585526_925ef89c5b_o.png
#
barnabywalters if not, just pick one and use that. the difference has been discussed quite a bit here, and trivial differences documented e.g. on http://indiewebcamp.com/favourite##Differences%20From%20Like
#
barnabywalters aaronpk: indieauth.com?
#
barnabywalters what does that do?
#
aaronpk it's ... complicated :/
#
aaronpk but now (soon) your site will be able to link to one or more authorization servers and indieauth.com will let you use those instead
#
barnabywalters aaronpk: sounds interesting — why? to help migration away from indieauth.com as centralised/de facto server?
#
aaronpk funny story... indieauth.com isn't even a centralized server right now
#
aaronpk it just kind of looks like one
#
barnabywalters aaronpk: it’s as centralised as app writers make it, if it’s treated as the default/only authorization server used
#
aaronpk at least the identity is not tied to it
#
aaronpk but right now it's the decision of the app to use it as its auth server
#
aaronpk and that is not important to users signing in
#
aaronpk the current limitation is that when a user signs in, they can only choose from sms, twitter, github, email, in other words, providers that both indieauth.com and the user have in common
#
barnabywalters aaronpk: ah, so this feature allows delegation to auth servers which allow other ways of verifying identity
#
aaronpk this addition allows a user to choose one or more of their own auth servers to use when signing in
#
aaronpk which is similiar to how indieauth.com used to be able to use a person's openid delegate
#
GWG barnabywalters: That one is trivial in my mind, so I can code for one as an alias for the other.
#
GWG barnabywalters: But what other 'verbs' are there
#
barnabywalters GWG: take a look at http://indiewebcamp.com/posts#Kinds_of_Posts
#
kylewm i feel like we've encountered this issue before? these two URLs seem to link to the same post, is one the post and one the photo? (cc: snarfed, GWG)
#
kylewm https://www.facebook.com/12802152/posts/10100909489103469
#
kylewm https://www.facebook.com/12802152/posts/10100909489088499
#
barnabywalters but ultimately you should implement whatever you actually want to use
#
snarfed kylewm: yup facebook has too many related-but-different urls for photo posts
#
snarfed one for the post, one for each individual picture, and one for the album (if any?)
#
snarfed finding a gh issue
dybskiy joined the channel
#
kylewm snarfed: and bridgy tries to propagate both of them?
#
snarfed kylewm: it tries to dedupe as much as it knows how
#
snarfed which is...some
#
snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/127
#
kylewm snarfed: ah ha, I remembered Jeena had seen it before, didn't know you had too. thanks :)
dybskiy joined the channel
#
kylewm lol at " the one on the photo is always created after the one on the post... anywhere from 5-10m later to days later"
#
snarfed :P
#
GWG How did comics get on there?
#
GWG barnabywalters: Where does a repost fit in? That a type of reply?
grantmacken joined the channel
#
kylewm GWG: are webcomics (other than Oatmeal & XKCD) still a thing? I wasn't sure if silos had killed a lot of them or if I just wasnt' reading them anymore
#
barnabywalters GWG: do you want to display repost differently to other sorts of responses?
#
barnabywalters or otherwise treat them differently?
#
GWG barnabywalters: A repost would be a reply without comment, technically
#
barnabywalters kylewm: AFAIK webcomics are still going strong
#
GWG People share articles without comment all the time. Is that a reply?
#
bret GWG indieweb linklogging is weakly documented
#
GWG I've always had trouble with that
#
bret check tommorris's site
#
barnabywalters GWG: would such posts make sense in the comment section for the articles?
#
bret also sandeem does interesting things for that
#
bret sandeep*
#
GWG barnabywalters: Someone might want to know I shared their article with people who are interested in following my activities.
#
GWG barnabywalters: So, a solid maybe?
#
barnabywalters aaronpk: something’s wrong with my webserver, which produces rather an ugly error when trying to sign in with indieauth.com
#
aaronpk uhoh
#
barnabywalters fixed my side, I have a copy of the error page saved if you want a look
#
aaronpk sure
#
aaronpk this one? "Net::HTTP::Persistent::Error - too many connection resets"
#
kylewm barnabywalters: that's good, a popular webcomic author would be a super a cool person to recruit for indieweb (since they're likely doing a lot of the stuff already)
#
barnabywalters kylewm: indeed, it’s occured to me before — webcomics are really indieweb already, often with a focus on selling stuff which is an under-researched area
#
barnabywalters aaronpk: that’s the one: http://waterpigs.co.uk/img/net-http-persistent-error-at-auth-start.html
#
aaronpk cool. i'll see if I can catch that better
KevinMarks joined the channel
#
barnabywalters not sure if “PASSENGER_CONNECT_PASSWORD” being public is as big a security issue as it sounds…
#
barnabywalters but it sounds bad
#
aaronpk huh, I don't even know what that is for. I think it's only an internal thing.
#
GWG barnabywalters: Maybe it is really a like?
#
barnabywalters GWG: not all posts with links in (or even reposts, for that matter) can inherently be treated as emotionally positive
#
GWG barnabywalters: But if so, I don't get this http://indiewebcamp.com/repost
#
barnabywalters there is a term for just linking to a post: a mention
#
GWG 's head explodes figuratively speaking
#
GWG This is where I get confused
#
barnabywalters aaronpk: even the docs don’t know what PASSENGER_CONNECT_PASSWORD is! http://www.rubydoc.info/github/FooBarWidget/passenger/PhusionPassenger/AbstractRequestHandler#PASSENGER_CONNECT_PASSWORD-constant
#
GWG Maybe at Indiewebcamp NYC I have to trap tantek and force him to explain this to me till I get everything
#
GWG barnabywalters: I'd ask you, but I can't afford the airfare
#
aaronpk lol :nodoc:
#
barnabywalters GWG: any post with text in, whether it’s a note, reply, article, photo (with text), etc., can link to things
#
barnabywalters finds example
#
barnabywalters GWG: okay, so this post: http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4WVNHg/ is a reply to https://mapkyca.com/2014/this-game-looks-fascinating-how-accurate-are-the-physics-involved
#
barnabywalters but it also links to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkDOOsGg-9I
#
barnabywalters so it’s a reply to mapkyca’s note, but a mention of the youtube URL
#
barnabywalters finds example of displaying mentions and replies differently
#
GWG So, what is the difference between a mention and a repost?
tpinto joined the channel
#
barnabywalters GWG: a “mention” is really just a fancy, human-centred term for linking
#
barnabywalters and a convenient verbnoun for posts which link to another post
#
barnabywalters whereas a repost actually duplicates and re-syndicates content
#
barnabywalters rather than just linking to it
#
GWG This taxonomy list is going to get fairly long
#
GWG I'd better start documenting this problem
#
barnabywalters GWG: a post should never be explicitly classified in software as a “mention”
#
GWG kylewm: You around?
#
barnabywalters it’s implicitly a mention if it links to anything
#
kylewm GWG: yep
#
GWG barnabywalters: Again, need to start writing this out
#
barnabywalters GWG: finally found an example of how I display mentions differently to replies: http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4T3FSd/
#
barnabywalters the first two responses shown are direct replies to the post, and as such are shown as full comments
#
GWG kylewm: You have top level hierarchy in your kylewm domain for different types?
snarfed joined the channel
#
barnabywalters the third links to it, but isn’t explicitly a reply, so only a very compact summary (akin to a like or repost) is shown
#
kylewm GWG: in the permalink structure you mean?
#
kylewm GWG: if so, yes I do
#
barnabywalters really the text should be the name of the article — my mention display is not very refined yet
#
barnabywalters hrm, it appears that indiewebcamp.com/mention doesn’t exist — am I really the only one using this terminology?
#
barnabywalters aaronpk: I seem to remember you’re displaying posts which just link to other posts differently to explicit replies — do you use the term “mention”?
#
barnabywalters looks like aaronpk does as well: http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/06/01/2/indieweb
#
barnabywalters so it’s certainly worth documenting
#
aaronpk oh yaeh I call them "mentions" there
bnvk and dybskiy joined the channel
#
waterpigs.co.uk created /mention (+1585) "Stubbed page with explanation, examples, example in the wild, differentiation from other posts/response types" (view diff)
dybskiy_ joined the channel
#
GWG kylewm: What is in your permalink structure?
#
barnabywalters stubbed /mention, please review/expand/add your examples of displaying cc: aaronpk GWG
#
waterpigs.co.uk edited /mention (+0) (view diff)
#
barnabywalters what is a mention?
#
Loqi The term mention is used to refer to a post which links to another post without being in response (e.g http://indiewebcamp.com/mention
#
waterpigs.co.uk edited /mention (+7) (view diff)
#
barnabywalters what is a mention?
#
Loqi The term mention is used to refer to a post which links to another post without being in response (for example reply/like/repost) to it http://indiewebcamp.com/mention
#
waterpigs.co.uk edited /posts (+228) "/* Kinds of Posts */ added implicit mention" (view diff)
#
waterpigs.co.uk edited /mentions (+123) "replaced redirect with disambiguation" (view diff)
#
waterpigs.co.uk edited /mentions (+30) (view diff)
#
waterpigs.co.uk edited /mention (+114) "linked to webmention" (view diff)
#
@bmann @sleslie have heard of but not met Kris @cqwww - yes to #indieweb beers when you’re next in town— good to see you! (twitter.com/_/status/475783746298212353)
#
barnabywalters needs to stop opening IRC client when I want to get work on feed reader done :)
#
GWG barnabywalters: You don't like us?
#
barnabywalters GWG: no, but I end up not working on feed readers
#
barnabywalters eventually I may reach a state of meta-programming where I just explain things sufficiently and other people, or sufficiently powerful computers, make them. but not yet :)
#
KartikPrabhu barnabywalters: you mean CEO?
#
barnabywalters KartikPrabhu: I dislike figureheads, so hopefully not :)
dybskiy joined the channel
#
GWG barnabywalters: Creating a virtual Barnaby who can answer all questions in chat while you code?
#
barnabywalters GWG: that’s the wiki and loqi’s “what is X” :)
#
GWG What is Barnaby Walters?
#
GWG Didn't work?