#indiewebcamp 2014-06-09

2014-06-09 UTC
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GWG Should I stop trying to confuse Loqi?
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GWG Who am I?
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GWG Who is kylewm?
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Loqi Kyle Mahan is a software developer in the SF bay area http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Kylewm.com
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GWG Who is Kyle Mahan?
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GWG Interesting
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GWG Who is Loqi?
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GWG How do I teach Loqi something?
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Loqi :)
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barnabywalters GWG, predictably, see http://indiewebcamp.com/Loqi
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barnabywalters if in doubt about topic X, visit indiewebcamp.com/X
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KartikPrabhu GWG: only aaronpk teaches Loqi. We can only suggest learnables
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barnabywalters which is what “what/who is X”
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barnabywalters goodnight all
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Loqi sleep tight!
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GWG Loqi: Hak mir nisht keyn tshaynik.
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GWG kylewm: Did you answer the permalink question?
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tantek GWG, still around? Seems like you asked a lot of taxonomy questions that I'm not sure what you were trying to figure out
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bret kylewm: how come all of your instagram syndication links 404?
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bret are they set to private?
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GWG tantek: I'm lurking, yes
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tantek GWG I'm still catching up
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GWG tantek: I have been working on a Wordpress plugin to automatically set up the different post types.
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GWG tantek: To do this, I had to create what Wordpress calls a Custom Taxonomy.
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GWG tantek: That allows me to set posts to type 'reply', type 'like' etc.
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GWG tantek: Except type is a reserved word, so I am using 'kind'.
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GWG acegiak: Was attaching this as metadata, but that doesn't allow the flexibility Wordpress attaches to custom taxonomies.
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GWG That should read acegiak was, not acegiak:
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gRegor` aaronpk, tantek: I was wondering about the format of the introductions / demos on day one of IWC. If we basically have webmentions set up, should we be ready to send/receive some live, or is it OK to just show examples from the past?
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tantek gRegor`: up to you.
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gRegor` Any any other info on that would be helpful. I might be overthinking it. :)
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tantek you decide how much you feel confident demoing working on your own site
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gRegor` Ok
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tantek my advice is to pick the most advanced (per IndieMark) feature you have working to demo, and in the lead up to it, just say/mention what you already have working
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gRegor` I get a bit nervous about public speaking and have not really done a demo before. Speaking always seems to work out ok once I get going though
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tantek you can practice by demoing to just one friend
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tantek or perhaps practice at HWC :)
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gRegor` Good idea :)
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tantek that timbray tweet thread is hilarious
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tantek https://twitter.com/timbray/status/475735598628474881
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@timbray How about someone set up a blog for @pmarca - his stuff would be way easier to read. And there’d be a persistent link to it. (twitter.com/_/status/475735598628474881)
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bret doesnt he write blog posts in series of tweets?
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tantek that's why timbray is sayig it would be easier to read as a blog post
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bret lol
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tantek with *one* permalink for the whole thing
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tantek would it be too snarky to ask timbray to tweet from his own site? you know, for persistent links
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bret he does take good care of his site
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bret this would be a good time for a 'soon' picture of tantek
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tantek 'soon' ?
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bret :D
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bret http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=19597&d=1348058492
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bret its a meme
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tantek don't ride the white horse?
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bret lol no like 'soon' you will be tweeting from your own domain
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acegiak Morning, all
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GWG Hi, acegiak
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tantek.com created /pmarca (+66) "stub" (view diff)
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bret tantek i think chiming in with anything with a permalink in your tweet would make a point
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tantek.com created /Marc_Andreessen (+1313) "stub since notable and Tim Bray asked for his tweets to be on his own site" (view diff)
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tantek bret, here's a preview
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tantek (future post)
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tantek http://tantek.com/2014/159/t3/tweet-posting-persistent-indieweb-links
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tantek (it's crafted to ellipse right after "Like this …")
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tantek how's that? hopefully constructive and not snarky
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kylewm Bret: yes my Instagram is set to private. hadn't thought about the syndication links not working. thanks for pointing that out
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tantek caseorganic, what do you think of this reply to Tim Bray's tweet? http://tantek.com/2014/159/t3/tweet-posting-persistent-indieweb-links is a reply to https://twitter.com/timbray/status/475735598628474881
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@timbray How about someone set up a blog for @pmarca - his stuff would be way easier to read. And there’d be a persistent link to it. (twitter.com/_/status/475735598628474881)
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caseorganic tantek: good!
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tantek caseorganic, thanks!
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@t @timbray better: set up tweet posting @pmarca's site. You know, for persistent #indieweb links. Like this ... http://tantek.com/2014/159/t3/tweet-posting-persistent-indieweb-links (twitter.com/_/status/475815998093029376)
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tantek updated with quoting timbray himself to make my argument: http://tantek.com/2014/159/t3/tweet-posting-persistent-indieweb-links
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tantek.com edited /favorite (+357) "add FAQ with Do both or not" (view diff)
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tantek GWG - you asked: "How did comics get on there?" Answer: because a couple of us posted them on our own sites and in doing so, figured out how an indieweb site could post indie comics.
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GWG tantek: Just curious on the background. I was interested why it wasn't merged with photo into 'image' or such
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tantek GWG - there are bunch of dinguishing features
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tantek I'll make that documentation more explicit
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GWG tantek: I like to understand.
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tantek.com edited /comics (+842) "put IndieWeb Examples first, expand into subsection per person, clarify some more difference from photo" (view diff)
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tantek GWG - lots here: http://indiewebcamp.com/comics#Distinguishing_Features
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tantek especially : http://indiewebcamp.com/comics##different+from+a+photo
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tantek GWG, re: " A repost would be a reply without comment, technically" - it's not clear it makes any sense to design anything for specially "technically" reasons.
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tantek in addition, I disagree because there is no "replyness" to a repost
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tantek a repost could be said to be a special kind of *mention* of an original post.
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GWG tantek: I was speaking in terms of presentation, to be precise.
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tantek so was I
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GWG Hmm...okay.
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GWG I'm just having the hardest time marrying the various conventions.
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acegiak tantek: I have gone with if a reply has a citation then it's actually a repost with comment. if there's a citation but no comment it's just a repost and if there's just a comment but no citation then it's just a reply
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acegiak GWG: yeah that's the hard bit
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GWG acegiak: What's new on your end?
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acegiak GWG: not a lot. We're having a long weekend of celebrating tabletop roleplaying so that's been my last few days
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acegiak I was just about to fiddle with doing a the_content filter but what are you up to?
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tantek.com edited /repost (+508) "improve dfn, separate reposting dfn, why" (view diff)
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GWG I spent all weekend boxing up family photos to ship to India?
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acegiak ok, cool. So if I do some work on presentation stuff I won't be stepping on your toes?
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GWG No.
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GWG The photos take 8-10 weeks turnaround time. I wanted to put them in the mail tomorrow
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acegiak cool
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GWG So now I can switch back to Wordpress mode
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acegiak yeah, fair enough
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GWG So, I'll likely work on that tomorrow.
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GWG Which it already is there
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acegiak it's monday lunch time here
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GWG It is 11PM Sunday here
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acegiak I'm trying to decide if I can be bothered heating up lunch
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GWG What did you decide?
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acegiak I'm leaning towards "cup of tea instead of actual lunch"
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acegiak which is mostly because I want to curl up and watch youtube instead of stand over a pot
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acegiak but I know emily would frown at me for that
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acegiak what I SHOULD do is heat up some soup and get something productive done
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acegiak whether that's plugin work or game dev
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GWG acegiak: Flip a coin?
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tantek GWG - re: "share articles without comment all the time. Is that a reply?" - no. Either it's a repost (if the actual article is reproduced), or it's a linkblog (if it's just a sharing of a link to the article) as a mention.
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acegiak I usually ask my chatbot
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aaronpk Loqi: plugin work or game dev?
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Loqi plugin work
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tantek lol
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acegiak Loqi: biased much? :P
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GWG Loqi: What is a linkblog?
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acegiak Well, dobbybot say game dev and he consistently chooses the wrong option, so plugin work it is
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GWG tantek: A linkblog sounds like a site that only does links.
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acegiak tantek: oh, interesting. I hadn't thought of the "just a link" option
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GWG tantek: Is there any markup for a 'linkblog' post then?
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GWG Someone seemed to call it a mention earlier... http://indiewebcamp.com/mention
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GWG Such as...
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GWG What is a mention?
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Loqi The term mention is used to refer to a post which links to another post without being in response (for example reply/like/repost) to it http://indiewebcamp.com/mention
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aaronparecki.com edited /mention (+45) "update dfn" (view diff)
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tantek Loqi: second dinner or snack?
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Loqi snack
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GWG How many years is it going to take me to get this right?
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rascul 12
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tantek.com edited /bookmark (+259) "-h1, fix dfn, IndieWeb Examples," (view diff)
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tantek.com created /linkblog (+22) "r" (view diff)
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tantek GWG - it will take longer the more you try to code all at once rather than picking *the one next thing you want* and implementing it, learning, and iterating.
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tantek you can always figure out / update your abstractions as you add new post types/kinds one by one.
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tantek what is a linkblog
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Loqi A bookmark (or linkblog) is a post that is typically comprised of a URL and optional text accompanying it http://indiewebcamp.com/linkblog
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GWG tantek: My plan was to set a short list, and add to it, and then one by one add the logic that explains their behavior.
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acegiak tantek: I'm trying to work out how to do favourites and I'm finding the line between linkblog and favourite pretty fuzzy
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GWG acegiak: A favorite is a like, a linkblog/bookmark doesn't imply anything
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tantek GWG - rather than a short list, literally just add one at a time.
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GWG If I get it correctly.
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GWG tantek: I may try that. Makes it hard to test the code to display the list though.
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tantek GWG, yes, that's one distinction
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tantek another distinction: linkblog/bookmark often has text and tags
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tantek favorites/likes don't
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GWG The rabbit hole of favorite vs like is not one I'm going to go down right now.
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GWG I'm just going to declare them aliases and let everyone else duke it out.
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tantek GWG - are you looking for an easy answer or a deep discussion?
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aaronparecki.com created /indiechat (+206) "add dfn for #indiechat" (view diff)
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GWG tantek: Depends on the topic.
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tantek specifically on "favorite vs like"
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GWG tantek: You may have noticed any easy answer automatically turns into a deep internal discussion in me.
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GWG tantek: I'm curious, yes.
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rascul hrm /Likes redirects to /like, but /likes is another page
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GWG I just was saying I wasn't going to touch it in my planning right now.
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GWG tantek: As per your suggestion about building one thing at a time.
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tantek ah that's fair
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GWG I decided I'd set it as an alias and revisit later
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tantek simple answer: just implement "like" (the verb) and posting "likes" on your own site, because those seems to have the lowest barrier to interaction (e.g. on FB)
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tantek "favoriting" seems slightly "heavier" in people's minds (judging by how less frequently people do it)
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tantek.com edited /bookmark (+227) "IndieWeb Examples subsections for each person, add ????-??-?? since dates as placeholders for implementation dates" (view diff)
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GWG acegiak: What are the types you use again?
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GWG acegiak: Since I've been collaborating with you?
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acegiak GWG: I use like repost and comment in different combinations
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aaronpk whoa, I just realized I have almost 8 years of bookmarks in my database
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aaronparecki.com edited /bookmark (+1) "/* Aaron Parecki */ add date I started hosting my own bookmarks" (view diff)
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GWG acegiak: I may take tantek's advice and start on like.
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acegiak tantek: at the moment I don't use any special markup for favoruites on my site, they're just a category of posts
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aaronpk 4 years of delicious bookmarks, then 4 years of self-hosted bookmarks
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acegiak http://acegiak.net/likes/
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acegiak (the category title is because I posted it before I started getting involved in any of this
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GWG acegiak: These are a few of my favorite things?
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acegiak exactly
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acegiak one of the interesting questions I had to ask myself was what to link to for those posts
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acegiak on facebook you "like" a thing's Facebook page, whether it be the national opera of nascar
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acegiak s/of/or/
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Loqi acegiak meant to say: on facebook you "like" a thing's Facebook page, whether it be the national opera or nascar
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acegiak so i've gone with wikipedia for my default authoritative list of pages about things
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GWG acegiak: That works.
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acegiak but I thought that was an interesting question to have had to ask
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GWG acegiak: how about a like cloud being a tag cloud of all the tags from like posts?
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tantek is continuing to braindump research that's been accumulating in his head about post types/kinds.
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acegiak GWG: for me favouriting a thing is a very specific action. It's an identity statement, like a bumper sticker on a car
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acegiak tantek: we're only using the word kind because type is a specific thing in wordpress. I would prefer we don't start using it unless we have to because it's an inhererently "fuzzy" word
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GWG Type, ironically, is the permalink slug for post formats.
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GWG Not sure why it isn't format
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tantek.com created /quotation (+621) "stub, dfn, difference from other post types, silo example Tumblr" (view diff)
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kylewm type is definitely one of those computer science words that have way too many meanings.
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: hey I'm not sure if you saw but we deployed the fix to find rel=feed on <a>'s, so it should start working for you now
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tantek.com edited /bookmark (+1153) "Similar Post Kinds, Reply, Repost, Quotation distinctions, when a bookmark should be one of the others instead." (view diff)
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rascul types about the types of languages implementing dynamic types
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rascul three different meanings in one line!
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tantek GWG - some distinctions for you: http://indiewebcamp.com/bookmark#Similar_Post_Kinds
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GWG tantek: Thank you
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tantek GWG - no problem - I think I've caught up with all your previous questions today in IRC regarding different post kinds.
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tantek And have documented clarifications accordingly on the page(s) for each such post type.
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GWG tantek: Then what will we talk about in 3 weeks?
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tantek whatever specific post kind you're implementing that week :)
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: yes. saw the <a> update will keep an eye out for it
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kylewm man that facebook photo api is all kinds of weird. earlier it had two different urls for the same post, now one of them has become the url for an album of all photos i've posted from my site (?)
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tantek so many different terms for a "collection" post
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tantek timeline, album, gallery etc. :/
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GWG No wonder I'm confused.
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tantek Flickr is the worst
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tantek sets, groups,
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tantek etc.
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KartikPrabhu tantek: is there someone publishing "collections" in a indieweb way?
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aaronpk is getting there, but not yet
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kylewm how would one backfeed comments on a facebook album?
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: send it to the corresponding album on the site?
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tantek you have to post a collection of your photos yourself
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KartikPrabhu but FB notion of album may not match yours
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kylewm I don't have a corresponding album, doh
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tantek so nowhere to backfeed them too
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acegiak GWG: I /was/ gonna use checking for post kinds in the display and checking them on and off in the interface, but maybe I should just toggle on and off kinds based on whetehr or not the meta fields are populated?
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acegiak wait, no because the only data for like is whether or not the taxonomy term is there
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GWG Yes.
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GWG I'm working on prepopulation of terms
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acegiak cool
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GWG So, it will only add terms if there are no terms.
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GWG So you can delete/edit without worrying about it. Sort of a 'starter kit'.
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GWG acegiak: Pushed
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acegiak coolios
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acegiak GWG: should I do a pull request for the basic the_content filter I've done?
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GWG Is it in your repository?
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acegiak yeah
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GWG Hold off for a bit. I want to look at a few things first.
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acegiak sure thing
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GWG I've never done a content filter.
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GWG I want to read up on it first.
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acegiak no probs
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acegiak all I've done for the moment is move a bunch of my stuff from the theme into a content filter
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acegiak but I want to make a couple of functions to do jobs like return lists of kinds and html classes so that the theme can hook into those if it wants and then have the content filter use those
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GWG I want to try a few variations.
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acegiak fair enough
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GWG acegiak: That is exactly what I was thinking.
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acegiak coolios
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GWG I wanted to create a get_post_kind based on get_post_format
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GWG http://codex.wordpress.org/Function_Reference/get_post_format
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GWG So, use function syntax similar to post format syntax
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aaronpk ah crap
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GWG aaronpk: What's wrong?
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aaronpk back to the drawing board
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Loqi lolz
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acegiak GWG: just pushed a change making the filter toggleable in the options screen defaulting to off
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GWG I'm heading to bed now. But I'll be fiddling with this again tomorrow.
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GWG Which, according to my conversion, I'll be home about 8:30AM your time.
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aaronpk it occurred to me while working on this that since you can currently choose between one of many auth providers like github, twitter, sms, etc, why limit to just one authorization server?
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aaronpk https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3837/14193432239_2ac9a4e7ff_o.png
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acegiak GWG: it's 3:30pm here now
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GWG acegiak: Thank you, by the way, for being involved in this. This is my first programming collaboration.
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GWG acegiak: I know. I need to sleep for a few hours, then I have work. By the time I'll be back and able to fiddle with this, it will be Tuesday there
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aaronpk BUT now that means now that response is going to need to indicate which auth server was used so the site knows how to verify it http://indiewebcamp.com/login-brainstorming#Response
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acegiak GWG: indieweb stuff is my first real contribution to these kinds of plugins, all my previous collab has been at work or with friends
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GWG acegiak: Same.
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aaronpk and because I'm worried about falling into a trap with this if I keep coding, I think it's best if I put this on hold and noodle on it some more
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acegiak you should sleep more :S
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Loqi I agree
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GWG Speaking of which
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GWG Good night
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acegiak night
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Loqi gute nacht!
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GWG Loqi: Laila Tov.
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GWG I just keep trying to confuse it for some reason
eschnou, dybskiy, nloadholtes, jsilvestre, tpinto, friedcell, dybskiy_, dybskiy__, dybski___, carlo_au, petermolnar, bnvk, valan, tantek, pdurbin and jonnybarnes joined the channel
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@ShaneHudson @puellavulnerata @ioerror Take a look at #indieweb :) (twitter.com/_/status/475943583930130432)
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jonnybarnes hey guys
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jonnybarnes aaronpk: have you seen this?
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jonnybarnes https://github.com/lazerwalker/Theseus
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jonnybarnes its a personal analytics tool, I think similar to somethin you've made for yourself
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barnabywalters acegiak: was it you who added microformats2 to blackwoolholiday.com?
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barnabywalters the h-entries on the homepage don’t have datetimes, so my current reader implementation always shows them at the top: http://waterpigs.co.uk/intertubes/feed/
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barnabywalters in order to prevent this from happening (both by accident and on purpose), it looks like three things need to be done on the reader side:
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barnabywalters check datetimes of incoming posts and cap them at the present if they say they’re in the future
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acegiak barnabywalters: huh. "add mf2 to blackwoolholiday.com" is on my todo list?
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barnabywalters acegiak: ah, it must be classic microformats being converted
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barnabywalters 2: replace blank datetimes with the current datetime
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acegiak i use either supplied datetime of first readtime
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barnabywalters 3: prevent *published* datetimes from being updated,
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acegiak s/of/or/
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Loqi acegiak meant to say: i use either supplied datetime or first readtime
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@mlleroulleau How we're on the verge of an amazing new open web #indieweb - http://werd.io/2014/how-were-on-the-verge-of-an-amazing-new-open (twitter.com/_/status/475960571414605825)
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barnabywalters what are timezones?
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barnabywalters come on Loqi
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Loqi who, me?
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barnabywalters what is a timezone?
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Loqi http://indiewebcamp.com/timezone
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /timezone (-8) (view diff)
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bnvk what is a waterpig?
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bnvk damn it
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Loqi hehe
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barnabywalters bnvk: even Loqi does not know that
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barnabywalters it is the greatest secret
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /h-entry (+1653) "/* Using h-entry */ linked to h-feed consumption algorithm, fleshed out per-h-entry algorithm with link to comment-presentation, datetime determination process, stubbed algorithm for handling updates, issues section w/ comment merge issue" (view diff)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /feed (+117) "/* How To Consume */ linked to h-entry consumption" (view diff)
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bnvk what are notifications?
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Loqi notifications in the context of the IndieWeb refer to all forms and ways that an independent web site can receive a message indicating something of interest (server notifications), and potentially relay that information (preferably in realtime) to one or more devices used by the owner of that site (client notifications) http://indiewebcamp.com/notifications
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petermolnar offtopic:
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petermolnar what is a waterpig? -> reminds me when my father showed HELP WOMBAT on VMS:
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petermolnar http://zinser.no-ip.info/vms/fun/fun_dtr.htmlx
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /location (+1535) "documented location derivation algorithm" (view diff)
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bnvk petermolnar: I have a strange memory of my dad and wombat as well
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barnabywalters anyone who consumes h-entry data, for your review: http://indiewebcamp.com/h-entry#How_to_consume_h-entry
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barnabywalters anyone who publishes/consumes location data, for your review: http://indiewebcamp.com/location#How_to_determine_the_location_of_a_microformat
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bnvk OMG, I hate the wiki
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bnvk it logs me out every hr
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bnvk and just deleted my content
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barnabywalters bnvk: huh, I thought aaronpk fixed the first issue — what caused the second?
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bnvk the forms post data getting lost as I had to go log back in
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barnabywalters aw crap :(
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brennannovak.com edited /follow (+955) (view diff)
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bnvk phew, thank goodness for Chromes aggressive page caching
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barnabywalters bnvk: I’ve rescued form data from browser caches in the filesystem before :)
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bnvk oh wow
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barnabywalters bnvk: regarding temporary following, I’ve implemented it and really enjoy it: http://waterpigs.co.uk/intertubes/people-ive-talked-to-recently/
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barnabywalters though there are some issues which need resolving, which I will document
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barnabywalters back to actual work now though
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bnvk nice
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barnabywalters temporary follow and context-sensitive following (e.g. event, location) is high up on my list of things to have in my feed reader
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@simonaclifford How we're on the verge of an amazing new open web #indieweb - http://werd.io/2014/how-were-on-the-verge-of-an-amazing-new-open (twitter.com/_/status/476000795695935488)
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@_EFFECT A new book on the science of self 'Me, Myself and Why' and other links http://www.wordyard.com/2014/06/06/links-indieweb-optimism-ouellettes-self-analysis-native-advertisings-scam/ via @scottros (twitter.com/_/status/476001201663012864)
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@luxagraf Nothing to see here, just testing a new feature on my site, posting to twitter from my own admin. because, why not? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/476008437936316416)
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luxagraf cool, it worked
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barnabywalters nice work luxagraf! I see your notes here https://luxagraf.net/notes/
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barnabywalters looking beautiful, and nicely marked up
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barnabywalters consider making the h-adr a p-location property of the h-entries instead of a child, and adding authorship of some form
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barnabywalters either nested h-cards, a page(feed)-level h-card or just a rel=author link
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Loqi [mention] https://petermolnar.eu/journal/indieweb-decentralize-web-centralizing-ourselves/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://petermolnar.eu/journal/indieweb-decentralize-web-centralizing-ourselves/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/silo (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://petermolnar.eu/journal/indieweb-decentralize-web-centralizing-ourselves/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://petermolnar.eu/journal/indieweb-decentralize-web-centralizing-ourselves/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started (webmention)
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petermolnar oops
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petermolnar url change again, I need to do something about this
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luxagraf if I were to add an h-card globally, say to my site footer, is that enough to convey authorship for any h-entries on the page?
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jonnybarnes luxagraf: my experience is it really depends on the consuming software
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petermolnar in theory the fallback should be the global (if set) in case there's no author for the h-entry itself
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tantek petermolnar: are you sending a webmention for the old URL that redirects to the new URL?
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tantek because I think that part is your responsibility (as publisher)
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tantek then those receiving the webmention can note it as an "update" rather than a "new" webmention for a URL
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petermolnar to be honest, I'm only using the wordpress webmention plugin and I haven't checked deep enough what's it really doing
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petermolnar but I will
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@SharingNetworks How we're on the verge of an amazing new open web #indieweb http://werd.io/2014/how-were-on-the-verge-of-an-amazing-new-open (twitter.com/_/status/476029077967478784)
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barnabywalters luxagraf: RE page-wide author, that’s one of the major use-cases of h-feed: http://indiewebcamp.com/feed
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barnabywalters http://indiewebcamp.com/h-feed#Why
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bret is the wiki supposed to keep me logged in?
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bret i pretty much have to log in every new session
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bnvk bret: glad I'm not the only one having that problem
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luxagraf jonnybarnes: yeah, see that's what I don't want to rely on
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luxagraf barnabywalters: i take it that the h-card needs to be a child of h-feed?
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barnabywalters luxagraf: it should be the author property — e.g. see how my homepage feed parses: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwaterpigs.co.uk%2F
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barnabywalters because you’re saying that this h-card is the *author* of the feed
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luxagraf barnabywalters: got it
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aaronpk bnvk: go here and check "remember my login" http://indiewebcamp.com/Special:Preferences
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aaronpk then you'll never be logged out again
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barnabywalters bret: ^^^^^
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aaronpk bret: you too http://indiewebcamp.com/Special:Preferences
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bnvk ok
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bret rgr
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bret wasnt aware of that setting
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aaronpk normally there's a checkbox on the login screen but I don't know where it went
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Loqi shaners: tantek left you a message on 6/5 at 1:32pm: my current web host setup has a 50MB/month bandwidth cap.
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Loqi shaners: tantek left you a message on 6/5 at 1:33pm: not 50MB, but 50GB monthly bandwidth limit
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shaners !tell tantek: wow. Do you think you're serving more than 50gb of mostly just HTML/CSS/JS or do you have some wildly popular images/videos/audio?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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shaners aaronpk: how does Loqi know which gendered pronoun to use?
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Loqi grins profusely
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bnvk !tell caseorganic can't wait to see you in Iceland
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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bnvk hrm
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barnabywalters for some reason it’s a bit creepy to think that aaronpk has a list of our genders somewhere
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shaners !tell bnvk clever test.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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barnabywalters I wonder…
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shaners !tell barnabywalters i wonder if Loqi is infer from our IWC wiki pages
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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barnabywalters !tell brennannovak blah blah blah blah
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Loqi barnabywalters: shaners left you a message 10 seconds ago: i wonder if Loqi is infer from our IWC wiki pages
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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bnvk !tell erinjo yo, just testing out something
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shaners s/infer/inferring/
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Loqi shaners meant to say: !tell barnabywalters i wonder if Loqi is inferring from our IWC wiki pages
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Loqi bnvk: shaners left you a message 1 minute ago: clever test.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell her that when I see her next
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barnabywalters what is Loqi
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Loqi http://indiewebcamp.com/Loqi
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shaners who is Loqi
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barnabywalters Loqi is struggling a bit today
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shaners we are slamming it/he/she pretty hard with this ridiculousness. ;)
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shaners hang in there, Loqi
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bnvk hehe
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aaronpk the best part about Loqi is that people always assume he is smarter than he is
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aaronpk also see: #indiechat if you want to spam the bot
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bnvk it's like an inverted uncanny valley
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barnabywalters bnvk: uncanny mountain, perhaps?
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Loqi tantek: shaners left you a message 6 minutes ago: wow. Do you think you're serving more than 50gb of mostly just HTML/CSS/JS or do you have some wildly popular images/videos/audio?
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jonnybarnes so, h-feed, am I fine adding that to my /notes page? Or should I be getting the notes in to my homepage as well (I'd rather not for now)
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jonnybarnes does the indiechat room get logged anywhere?
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aaronpk jonnybarnes: not publicly, but you have to assume everyone's clients are logging it
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: if you want to add h-feed markup to your notes feed then go for it
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barnabywalters you only really start to see the benefit if you’re taking advantage of the feed authorship discovery though
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jonnybarnes cool
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luxagraf been looking at various people's use of <action>, is there a reference anywhere for the possible values of "do"?
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shaners luxagraf have you seen http://indiewebcamp.com/webactions ?
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tantek shaners - mostly XML/HTML
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tantek lots of hits on index.html and updates.atom
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tantek especially by bad bots
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tantek so I'm blocking them :(
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shaners wow. i didn't realize you were getting that slammed with traffic.
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aaronpk how are you blocking them?
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tantek .htaccess
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tantek apache rewrite rules
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tantek needs to write this up on the wiki
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aaronpk ah cool
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tantek since it's obviously a bit of indieweb maintenance foo
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tantek might as well admit to it and document it to help others
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tantek also something that web hosting companies could compete on
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tantek I'd really like my web host to auto detect bad bots
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tantek e.g. IE5.5 User Agent requesting 20 pages a second? I don't think so.
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shaners haha. that's so fast clicking.
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Loqi hehe
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tantek like just a "suspicious clients" section on the stats page
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tantek suspicious UAs
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tantek suspicious IPs
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tantek etc.
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aaronpk that sounds like a valuable service one could provide
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tantek with a BLOCK button next to each
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tantek so I could just check it and be like yeah, block that
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aaronpk doesn't even necessarily have to happen at the web host level if you point your domain to a proxy and the proxy does the service
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tantek or even auto-blocking an IP or UA based on THEM exceeding specific bandwidth caps
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iamshane.com created /Jlsuttles (+31) "Jlsuttles => User:Jlsuttles.me" (view diff)
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iamshane.com created /jlsuttles (+31) "Jlsuttles => User:jlsuttles.me" (view diff)
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iamshane.com edited /User:Iamshane.com (-3) "the => a" (view diff)
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barnabywalters tantek: aaronpk: pretty sure this is one of the services cloudflare offer
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barnabywalters but I’ve heard mixed things about them and never used them mysefl
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barnabywalters s/mysefl/myself
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Loqi barnabywalters meant to say: but I’ve heard mixed things about them and never used them myself
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aaronpk https://www.cloudflare.com/features-security
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aaronpk "We never charge for bandwidth. CloudFlare will never bill you for bandwidth usage. We believe if your site suddenly gets popular or suffers an attack, you shouldn't have to dread your bandwidth bill."
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barnabywalters argh — is anyone else having apache segfault issues on debian with PHP?
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aaronpk ugh. I don't use apache or debian.
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luxagraf shaners: thanks, i had, but it suggests "props" for "favorite", which is a word that will never appear on site, code or otherwise
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luxagraf so I'm going with barnabywalters bookmark
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shaners i agree. personally, not a fan of "props".
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barnabywalters aaronpk: maybe I need to set up nginx finally
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Loqi caseorganic: bnvk left you a message 39 minutes ago: can't wait to see you in Iceland
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caseorganic bnvk: me too! it will be fantasticz!
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luxagraf if I were going to venture a criticism of indiewebcamp it would be in the naming choices
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bnvk caseorganic: hehe, I was also just testing Loqi's gender prowess
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iamshane.com created /User:Jlsuttles.me (+1404) "Adds IWC wiki profile for JLSuttles" (view diff)
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caseorganic bnvk: i believe Loqi uses "they". :)
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Loqi who, me?
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bnvk but sometimes Loqi says "he" as well
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shaners luxagraf: naming things is hard
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luxagraf shaners: the hardest part I think
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barnabywalters luxagraf: feel free to suggest better names, and obviously to use them on your own site
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aaronpk naming things is one of the two hardest problems in computer science. the other being cache invalidation and off-by-one errors.
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luxagraf barnabywalters: in this case I like yours, so I'm using bookmark
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shaners who is jlsuttles
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shaners Loqi, are you out there?
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aaronpk shaners: the "who is" draws from the irc-people page
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shaners oooh
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barnabywalters who is barnabywalters?
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Loqi http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Waterpigs.co.uk
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barnabywalters nifty
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iamshane.com edited /IRC_People (+60) "Adds jlsuttles to list" (view diff)
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shaners who is jlsuttles
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aaronpk might take a minute for the cache to catch up... speaking of caching
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shaners HA!
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aaronpk also spam the bot in #indiechat
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kylewm.com edited /kylewm (-29) "Blanked the page" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com deleted /kylewm "Empty Content"
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kylewm thanks aaronpk, I was just about to ask you to do that
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aaronpk np
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GWG lunchtime
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kylewm luxagraf: curious what other names stick out as being bad to you? props'
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kylewm other than props*
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GWG props?
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aaronparecki.com deleted /gRegor` "gRegor` requested deletion"
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luxagraf kylewm: facepile, selfdogfooding
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aaronpk facepile was not coined here
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gRegor` Nor was selfdogfooding, right?
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GWG I don't like facepile as a word, but it is what it is.
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luxagraf kylewm: i don't have any better words at the moment, but i think this matters for getting (esp) level 2 people involved
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aaronpk there's been a lot of talk about finding a better word than selfdogfooding
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GWG It is like complaining about calling ketchup ketchup instead of catsup
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luxagraf yeah I know, dog fooding esp goes way back, but they get used all over the wiki
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aaronpk i'd be happy to use a different word but there hasn't been a good one found yet
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GWG luxagraf, shouldn't we use language that exists over new nomenclature?
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luxagraf GWG: I disagree. how you describe things makes them what they are
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kylewm we got a real Wittgenstein over here!
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GWG I was more commenting on the public consciousness
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luxagraf GWG: not when the inherited language is part of the problem you're trying to solve
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GWG luxagraf, why do we call it a bathroom?
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luxagraf well, yeah I am a writer, but i don;t think you have to be a writer to recognize that selfdogfooding is not exactly the most appealing phrase to describe something
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luxagraf GWG: I have no idea
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gRegor` selfsteakfooding (selftofooding for the vegans)
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etymancer tofood++
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Loqi tofood has 1 karma
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GWG luxagraf, I am sort of playing devil's advocate here
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barnabywalters “practising what you preach” is a similar phrase
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kylewm GWG: water closet?
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gRegor` I was going for tofu+fooding and just shortened it :)
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luxagraf barnabywalters: yup, and much better
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GWG kylewm, I like fecal
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kylewm that's... disturbing?
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luxagraf and indexed :)
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luxagraf I plan to write something up on this eventually.
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gregorlove.com edited /selfdogfood (+131) "/* Discussion */ starting to document the discussion about a more appealing term." (view diff)
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kylewm does 'selfdogfooding' even apply to gen 2 people? presumably they'd be using tools built by others
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GWG kylewm, lavatory? head?
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GWG kylewm, tools under your control vs not
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gregorlove.com edited /selfdogfood (+80) "/* Discussion */" (view diff)
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gRegor` Document away: http://indiewebcamp.com/selfdogfood#Discussion
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GWG Even gui website tools are still creation
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kylewm I guess you are still creating on your own site, whether you are doing the plumbing or not
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kylewm GWG: beat me to it. you're right, thanks :)
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GWG kylewm, I installed my plumbing. I did not forge the pipes
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gRegor` I think even the simple phrase "use your own product" might be better. UYOP to acronymize it.
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GWG So, luxagraf, what is your suggested term to replace Facepile?
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aaronpk i think facepile is cute, what's wrong with it?
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bnvk I like all things *pile
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gRegor` I don't find Facepile problematic since it's specific to Facebook.
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bnvk other candidates:
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bnvk - stack
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GWG But the design element is reproduced on other sites
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gRegor` They coined it, so it's kind of a proper noun for the design pattern.
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onewheelskyward Much like xerox, kleenex, etc
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barnabywalters HUMAN-ORIENTED RESPONSE GRID 5000®
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gRegor` Wheras selfdogfooding is a principle, a fun(ny) slang for "use your own product"
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iamshane.com edited /Amazon_S3 (+412) "date edge S3+Cloudfront usage and billing" (view diff)
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gRegor` barnabywalters++
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Loqi barnabywalters has 42 karma
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gRegor` I use model 5001, barnabywalters. 5000 is sooo last year. :)
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bnvk such a hipster
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gRegor` I burned my mouth eating pizza before it was cool.
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barnabywalters gRegor`: well I’M SORRY YOU FEEL THAT WAY. HORG5000 forever
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GWG How about artisanal content creation?
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gRegor` Haha
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luxagraf so long as you think of your own product as food for dogs.
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kylewm searching "Use your own product", found a nice pro-selfdogfooding article https://medium.com/binary-times/use-your-own-product-or-die-ba3e2d738a55
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iamshane.com edited /web_hosting (+91) "/* Amazon S3 */" (view diff)
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gRegor` took "use your own product" from wikipedia
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luxagraf the wikipedia page has a suggestion from the criticism section "drinking our own champagne"
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aaronpk hopes his manual POSSE to twitter and facebook is properly picked up by bridgy this time
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luxagraf which at least sounds better to people who've never heard the joke
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gregorlove.com edited /Template:gRegor (-1) (view diff)
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bnvk aaronpk: mine worked fine the other day
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gregorlove.com edited /selfdogfood (+92) "/* Discussion */" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /selfdogfood (+49) "/* Discussion */" (view diff)
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luxagraf barnabywalters: took your advice: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fluxagraf.net%2Fnotes%2F2014%2F06%2Fvoter-id-laws
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barnabywalters luxagraf: nice work! for p-location to actually be a nested property it’ll need to be class=“p-location h-adr”
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barnabywalters this is a perfect test for my location detection code!
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barnabywalters nice URLs too
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gRegor` Weird that medium.com doesn't list the full published date in the visible HTML. Just "Jan 16" kylewm
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gRegor` They list the full published time in <meta property="article:published_time">
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barnabywalters what even is that
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gRegor` Ya got me
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luxagraf barnabywalters: is h-adr not in there anymore? crap, i think i pushed the wrong branch the server. i'll fix that. thanks
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@carlos28936 Nunca se sabe, pero esto tiene pinta de ser el futuro. How we're on the verge of an amazing new open web #indieweb - http://werd.io/2014/how-were-on-the-verge-of-an-amazing-new-open (twitter.com/_/status/476072536896049155)
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gregorlove.com edited /Medium (+294) "/* Criticism */ Full published date not in visible HTML, but in a meta element." (view diff)
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kylewm aaronpk: which thing did you manually posse to facebook/twitter?
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gRegor` Ok, medium displays the full date for older articles.
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gRegor` But I guess since the one kylewm linked to is from 2014, it just lists "Jan 16"
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luxagraf barnabywalters: okay, fixed.
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barnabywalters luxagraf: looking good!
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gregorlove.com edited /Medium (+272) "/* Criticism */" (view diff)
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barnabywalters luxagraf: this is how your feed looks in my feed testing UI: http://waterpigs.co.uk/img/screen-shot-2014-06-09-at-184936.png
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bret oh yeah luxagraf++ for getting notes working!
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gRegor` barnabywalters: meta article:published_time is Open Graph Protocol, apparently.
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gregorlove.com edited /Medium (+48) "/* Criticism */" (view diff)
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luxagraf barnabywalters: seems about right. what's name and why is it false?
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barnabywalters luxagraf: that’s a helpful property aaronpk’s comment-presentation code adds — if name exists and is not false, then it should be shown as well as the content (e.g. an article). if it’s false, don’t show it (e.g. a note)
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gregorlove.com edited /Medium (+6) "/* Criticism */" (view diff)
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barnabywalters because microformats will always have a name property, you have you figure out whether or not to show it
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luxagraf barnabywalters: ah, makes sense
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barnabywalters most of the other weirdly named/duplicate properties are just there for indexing purposes
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luxagraf now i just need to set up webmentions
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luxagraf.net edited /User:Luxagraf.net (+21) (view diff)
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kylewm luxagraf: didn't realize you were in Athens. neat, I grew up in Marietta
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luxagraf kylewm: are you still around here? I've been thinking there needs to be indiewebcamp south
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kylewm luxagraf: no, i'm just another sf bay area transplant now. kinda wish i were there to start iwc south with you!
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luxagraf kylewm: too bad. i think i'll do the first iwc microcamp
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luxagraf kylewm: just me, sitting at the new brewery thinking about microformats :)
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kylewm haha, well that doesn't sound terrible
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luxagraf This might be an interesting data point to add the webactions page: http://css-tricks.com/poll-results-sharing-buttons/
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tantek luxagraf: definitely! please add it
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luxagraf tantek: trying to figure out where to put it
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tantek luxagraf - perhaps a subsection of http://indiewebcamp.com/webactions#Drop_Social_Buttons ?
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tantek since "60% I don't ever use sharing buttons. I share my own way."
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tantek that's pretty harsh criticism
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tantek subsection "considered visual clutter" :)
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tantek (quoted from that URL)
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@Johannes_Ernst Hey @benwerd, any chance Known will talk MySQL by #indiewebcamp? Would be cool to run it on #IndieBox. http://upon2020.com/banter/?p=273 (twitter.com/_/status/476082887616241664)
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luxagraf.net edited /webactions (+91) "added link to css-tricks survey" (view diff)
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luxagraf Is there a facebook equivalent to twitter's /intent/ urls?
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luxagraf it appears facebook uses http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=
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@AngieLandazabal RT @microformats: #Brighton #microformats2 parsing meetup @glennjones @t tomorrow 2013-257 10:45 @Taylor_St http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2013-09-14-microformats2-parsing #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/476097152687804416)
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aaronpk sounds like we need a http://indiewebcamp.com/redirect page
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j12t Hey everybody, a bit of self-promition here, but INC magazine has a great article today titled “The Revolution Will Not Be Monetized” that quotes your’s truly.
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benwerd FYI: the elearning Domain of One's Own project, which overlaps massively with the indie web, is having a hackathon in LA on July 19-20.
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j12t http://www.inc.com/magazine/201407/ceo-of-wickr-leads-social-media-resistance-movement.html
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benwerd They aim to give students a domain of their own, and encourage them to post to their own sites.
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aaronpk rascul: kylewm: there are well documented ways to do http redirects with html pages
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tantek benwerd that's awesome!!!
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benwerd they are very keen for indie web folks to join them
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rascul aaronpk more than just meta tags?
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aaronpk that's the one
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aaronpk meta equiv
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rascul yeah that and a js one
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benwerd j12t - sorry to talk over you. That's really cool!
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rascul i might be able to do some lua-ing to nginx for a niftier solution though but that won't be until later
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j12t No probl, IRC is multithreaded/
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aaronpk i believe google will follow the meta redirect too tho
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j12t Not a bad article either.
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rascul that's good if google follows it
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rascul i could make a thing with flask to listen on /a and redirect to /articles/whatever also
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aaronpk https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/79812?hl=en
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rascul ooo there it is the refresh one
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kylewm rascul: slippery slope, that
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rascul yeah when i get to it i'll figure out which way is gonna work the best for me
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aaronpk j12t: congrats on the article!
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j12t thanks aaronpk
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j12t always interesting and surprising to see what, after a long interview, makes it into an article …
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tantek.com edited /fragmention (-436) "incorporate overview into definition, move TOC down" (view diff)
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bret aaronpk test subscribing to http://waterpigs.co.uk/services/microformats-to-atom/?url=http://caseorganic.com/notes and http://waterpigs.co.uk/services/microformats-to-atom/?url=http://aaronparecki.com/notes provides a better atom feed than your current one that lacks images, other than lacking a proper feed title
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aaronpk oh cool
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aaronpk maybe time to drop my atom rendering
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bear rascul - I'm adding an example in /nginx of how I solved the redirects issue for a static web site
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tantek hey KevinMarks I just mentioned fragmentions at the W3C AC meeting
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Loqi bear: KartikPrabhu left you a message on 6/5 at 8:09pm: do you know any good references on how to make a good requirements.txt where the requirements might be from a github repo to have the latest bleeding-edge stuff? trying to make by blog stuff open on github
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Loqi bear: KartikPrabhu left you a message 2 days ago: ronkyuu doesn't actually use mf2py but it is in the requirements with an older version. Should I just remove it?
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tantek and pointed out that it extends URL
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bear KartikPrabhu - I always just feed the output of "pip freeze" to requirements.txt
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bear so I get the formatting proper
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bear !tell KartikPrabhu your answer about requirements.txt -- I always feed the output of "pip freeze" to requirements.txt so I ensure that it will be machine readable when put into the repo or docs
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu bear: got it :)
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bear :)
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: bear left you a message 13 seconds ago: your answer about requirements.txt -- I always feed the output of "pip freeze" to requirements.txt so I ensure that it will be machine readable when put into the repo or docs
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bear and yes please do remove older lib refs
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@benwerd @hjarche Agree completely! That's why we're doing what we're doing both at @withknown & #indieweb - bringing that back. (twitter.com/_/status/476107045939081218)
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KartikPrabhu bear: alrighty. though I still think mf2py should be used in ronkyuu somehow. will look into that as well
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bear agree - it should definitely be used - having ours have "almost" implementations of things that are in mf2py leads to fragmentation (the bad kind)
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bear we should support mf2py by using it and also contributing back to it
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Loqi yea
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KartikPrabhu bear: sweet... I'll see how to go about doing that soon
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bear.im edited /Nginx (+406) "add sample on how to do url redirect routing" (view diff)
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bear.im edited /Nginx (+8) "/* static site example */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme so looking at the people based communication links. now that google hangouts has updated to merge sms and hangouts, sms: links will kind of get you to their google hangout, but then you have share your phone number and they have to already have your contacts merged
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rascul bear thanks that looks pretty easy to do
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bear it's very easy yea
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bret Some notes from the reboot rss meetin in NY? https://github.com/Reboot-RSS/reboot-rss/issues
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bret I think NY
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KartikPrabhu I am quite confused by the "simplify subscriptions" bit... most feed reader that I know (at least Feedly) auto discovers feed links from the main url. If website/browsers have a "subscribe" button what is it supposed to do?
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KartikPrabhu I mean what happens once I click the "subscribe" button?
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jonnybarnes pooh: https://jonnybarnes.net/note/82
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@indiecomputing Why having your e-mail on somebody else's cloud is a bad idea: they may not let you have it. #indieweb http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/03/us-yahoo-email-terminated-idUSKBN0EE22P20140603 (twitter.com/_/status/476117544609124352)
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bret It seems like friend/follow/subscribe could make a good webaction
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KartikPrabhu must read up on what webactions do...
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bret KartikPrabhu: basically, when demoing cross site commenting, it became clear that unless the UI can match that of the silos, its going to be a silly round about process
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bret so webactions are user definable html tags that trigger actions
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bret with a fallback for users who have not defined an action
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KartikPrabhu bret: so the readers define the action or the site author?
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bret this allows for a reply button to live on an indieweb post just like the reply button lives next to a tweet
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bret KartikPrabhu: action handling is done with an extension right now iirc
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bret but you could trigger a link back to your posting interface with a reply url as a param
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bret right from that persons website
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aaronpk you know how the tweet button pops up a preview window on twitter.com where you can change the text before tweeting?
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aaronpk that's basically what we were outlining here http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#Micropub_for_Comments
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KartikPrabhu so in the case of feed subscribing this would mean that the reader has their own feed-reader at some URL
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bret ohhh that makes sense
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barnabywalters good evening #indiewebcamp
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barnabywalters anyone who consumes h-entry data, please review this: http://indiewebcamp.com/h-entry#How_to_consume_h-entry
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barnabywalters and add/clarify/raise issues/discuss here
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KartikPrabhu this setup assumes that people reading a website have their own site including at least some feed-subscription mechanism. Seems like a lot of backbone that RSS people are not thinking of
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barnabywalters anyone who publishes or consumes location data, please review http://indiewebcamp.com/location#How_to_determine_the_location_of_a_microformat and ditto
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: what setup?
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: the webactions and the micropub for comments one
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aaronpk it's a lot of uncharted territory.
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aaronpk likely will be a big focus of indiewebcamp this year!
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KartikPrabhu yes. I wonder what the RSS folks are talking about then
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /h-entry (+0) "/* How to consume h-entry */" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu bret: any idea what "subscribe easily" means without the indieweb context?
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aaronpk oh are you talkoing about this? https://github.com/Reboot-RSS/reboot-rss/issues missed that somehow
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: yes. webactions would work in the indieweb context. but then what are the RSS folks talking about?
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KartikPrabhu if the goal is to make subscribing "as easy as silos" then "install this add-on to your browser and add this setting to it" is not a solution
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bret KartikPrabhu: he means its hard right now to use a feed reader
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KartikPrabhu no I understand the goal.
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bret you have to a) enable button on your browser or b) install a discovery tool/extension
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bret im trying to point out that subscribe is merely another action that should be apart of the html interface
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aaronpk people always forget about the bookmarks bar. you can do so much cool stuff with it and it's really easy to put things there.
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bret aaronpk, yeah I use bookmarklets a lot
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aaronpk and "installing" things there is just making a web page and saying "drag this link up here"
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bret but those are like, http://memeguy.com/photos/images/tim-and-eric-mind-explosion-gif--41769.gif for lots of people
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bret plus it goes against the goal of matching silo ux
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bret its a good fallback for sure
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aaronpk it would be useful to have this so-called ideal silo UX documented somewhere
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bret KartikPrabhu: right, you cant make feeds as easy as a silo, you just have to support a silo as a fallback
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bret but in the context of feeds, it could be the other fallback
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KartikPrabhu bret: hmm didn't understand that at all... which silo? who chooses it?
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bret as the site owner you choose
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bret its a fallback
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bret just as silos make decisions for most people
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bret feed readers are never going to be as easy as just using a silo
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rascul thunderbird makes it easy as email
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KartikPrabhu hmm i thought that was the intended goal of that discussion
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bret oh gawd
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bret ;)
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bret KartikPrabhu: well, it at least drives awareness of a feeds existance?
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bret im trying to keep the discussion within the framing
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bret at least in the repo
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KartikPrabhu bret: sure thing. I'll keep an eye on it :)
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KartikPrabhu just trying to understand the question that RSS people are trying to solve
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bret adding webmention endpoints to a feed, is that so the reader does not have to parse html to find it?
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bret KartikPrabhu: I think its a similar issue to what we are trying to solve, but more attached to rss
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bret but then you dont really have rss without html
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aaronpk that thread seems entirely too RSS centric
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KartikPrabhu bret: yes. but the trouble is RSS does not have the backbone of the indieweb, with everyone owning their sites and all that
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bret i think feed readers have a huge potential as micropub clients
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aaronpk you guys are making me want to BUILD ALL THE THINGS ! stop it!
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bret KartikPrabhu: most people who i meet that use rss dont activly publish
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bret so its incredibly limiting to the options when you are in that boat
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KartikPrabhu bret: I'm sure they actively publish on silos
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barnabywalters bret: agreed. working on it right now, in fact :)
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bret KartikPrabhu: yes exactly
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bret barnabywalters++
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Loqi barnabywalters has 43 karma
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KartikPrabhu shhh guys don't let tantek catch us talking about rss :P
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bret KartikPrabhu: thas silly
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bret I dont want to alienate the RSS/superfeeder community as they have a lot of solid work in terms of readers
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bret i mean pubsubhubbub*
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KartikPrabhu bret: I do think that the indeweb publish+subscribe setup (including indie-readers) will be a better solution to this, than isolated feed-readers.
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bret it already is! feeds biggest failures is that it didnt allow people to publish to subdomains
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bret its not your own data, but at least you could post to a url
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bret (if readers let you publish as well as consume)
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KartikPrabhu nods
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bret people fell for google readers community features
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KartikPrabhu bret: Feedly does allow me to share what I read on social silos
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bret idea: unauthed micropub posting to a website for more traditional comment threads
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bret not that I want that
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barnabywalters bret: fwiw superfeedr is pretty awesome. I’m using it heavily in my reader
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aaronpk bret: pretty sure there's a strong trend away from unauth'd comments in general
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bret julien does great work
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aaronpk barnabywalters: do you have any sketches or design docs for this reader?
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bret aaronpk: yeah i see that too
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aaronpk barnabywalters: like how I outlined http://indiewebcamp.com/mention-app
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barnabywalters aaronpk: the prototype is up at http://waterpigs.co.uk/intertubes/, http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4T3FSd/ outlines some features, http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4V6Fna/ is another little bit of design
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barnabywalters there’s no one place collecting them all yet. I’ll add them to /reader
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aaronpk ah cool
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aaronpk or you can make a new page for it too since it's its own project
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barnabywalters the code is actually all online right now https://github.com/barnabywalters/shrewdness
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bret aaronpk: are you interested in adding gitpub to the indieweb repo?
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bret i want to generalize it for anyone to use
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bret group* on github
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aaronpk hmm maybe... although most of the things there are libraries, not full apps
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bret ok thats fine, Ill just link to it form the wiki then
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barnabywalters bret: does it have a wiki page? is it on /projects?
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bret no not yet
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kylewm.com edited /2014 (+5) "/* Other Activities */ specify which location the event is for" (view diff)
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bret does twitter even take fake followers seriosly?
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waterpigs.co.uk created /Shrewdness (+410) "stubbed page with not very much on" (view diff)
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aaronpk hm does superfeedr do search?
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kylewm aaronpk: no, my understanding is that it can track keywords from the time the track is set up into the future
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barnabywalters aaronpk: search of what specifically?
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bear @aaronpk - http://documentation.superfeedr.com/misc.html
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aaronpk well presumably superfeedr is indexing all sorts of things, right?
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aaronpk cause I can subscribe to http://superfeedr.com/track?include=indieweb and it'll send me updates about things that match
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bear I don't recall that it stores things using something like elasticsearch
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barnabywalters aaronpk: yep, anything which it processes containing that keyword will show up in the track feed
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barnabywalters pretty sure it doesn’t do any additional crawling
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kylewm why isn't there anything in that feed though?
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aaronpk cause it's only a realtime feed
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aaronpk it says in the feed
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bear it also doesn't store past items that have been published for any meaningful length of time
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /Shrewdness (+407) "added a bit of background" (view diff)
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bret is thinking of doing a cleanup of the projects page
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kylewm got it
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kylewm do it bret
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bear tho, knowing Julien, if you give him a sound reason - he would probably implement it
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bret kylewm: cant right now but the next indieweb thing I work on
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bret people dont come to iwc projects page to read about nginx
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kylewm bret: I didn't mean it quite so demandingly :) i'm just a supporter of cleanup
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bret lol i got ya :)
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bret I'll start in userspace
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bret but thinking of making some more iwc centric categories
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aaronpk i'm just thinking like how I can search the twitter API for things, it would be awesome if I could search other sites
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aaronpk basically i want technorati to come back
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bret lol
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bear :)
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bret iwc is a front to bring back old technorati
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bret kidding
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kylewm aaronpk: I've been wanting something just like that too, want loqi to tell us when people make blog posts about 'indiewebcamp' in addition to twitter updates about it
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Loqi dude
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bret without twitter
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kylewm julien said at hwc that superfeedr was definitely a viable way to do it
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aaronpk yeah it is. we had the notifix bot in here for a bit but it was kind of misbehaving
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aaronpk julien even gave me some sample node.js code for Loqi so he could subscribe to the hub but I haven't gotten around to implementing it yet
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bret superfeed is all PuSH right?
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bear push, xmpp, rss - I think he consumes/delivers all of them
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barnabywalters yep
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barnabywalters also content-agnostic PuSH 0.4
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barnabywalters which is what I’m using
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bret I'm a bit fuzzy on the the boundries of those things
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bear he can poll for changes in rss
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bear and has rss feeds for updates
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bear he has an xmpp jid you can send updates to and also receive updates from
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bear and of cource PuSH
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bret all i really know xmpp to be is to be the standard IM proticol
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bear sorta kinda
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bret lol
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bear xmpp is a message transfer protocol
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bret hrrmm
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bear you can use it to send IM (aka messages) or chat messages or event messages
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bear it also has muc (multi-user chatrooms) and pubsub items
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bret didnt overtake irc it seems?
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bear it's biggest feature is federated user and identity
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bear no, because IRC and XMPP are in different realms really
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bear irc allows for anyone to connect to any server and eventually get all of the messages
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bear xmpp says you connect to your server and then have it connect to other servers as needed
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bear there are some overlaps, but it's really the federated identity and messaging that is the core of xmpp
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bret is there any crossover with serverless xmpp?
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kylewm aaronpk: also along the same lines, this thing you said last week stuck out to me http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-06-03/line/1401834092
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bret err xmpp with serverless clients*
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bear there are some implementations of that for IoT and other specific implementations
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bear but really the xmpp crowd don't like serverless connections - it removes the core part of what makes xmpp secure
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aaronpk kylewm: yeah!
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bret totally
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bear there are some in the IoT realm who are trying for it
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bear but really it boils down to having them be proxies in a pretend cluster
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bret bear++ thanks for the info, it helps
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Loqi bear has 7 karma
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bear bret - anytime - part of my job as XSF Board member and long-time XSF member
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bret i wish we chatted more when you were in portland :)
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@djp1974 'Re-decentralised the internet': @timbernerslee in the #Web at 25 series, @WiredUK March 2014: http://www.wired.co.uk/magazine/archive/2014/03/web-at-25/tim-berners-lee #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/476137697816223745)
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bear yea, I love to catch up with local folks when I travel
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GWG bear: Where do you travel?
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /Shrewdness (+528) "added section about the feed testing UI with screenshow" (view diff)
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aaronpk I need an auth buddy
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aaronpk it's hard keeping all this stuff straight in my head. and I also often need multiple implementations of things
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barnabywalters aaronpk: talking about indieauth/micropub? I’d volunteer, but one of the reasons I made taproot/authentication was so that I wouldn’t have to hold all that stuff in my head :)
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aaronpk I know :)
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barnabywalters just add one line of code and *poof*, it all works
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aaronpk that's how it should work once it's all done
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /Shrewdness (+345) "Added some more screenshots, design work" (view diff)
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bear GWG - I am often in Portland OR for events, in San Francisco for customer stuff, in Portland ME for Monktoberfest and to New York for customer stuff
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GWG Oh
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bear and then sprinkle in some Boston or DC around
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GWG What is Monktoberfest?
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bear http://monktoberfest.com/ - a single track technology + beer event put on by the Redmonk folks
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /Shrewdness (+505) "moar screenshots" (view diff)
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hober bear: that's where we met! (the first monktoberfest)
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bear yep :)
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aaronpk barnabywalters++ for screenshots
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Loqi barnabywalters has 44 karma
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barnabywalters aaronpk: hopefully they’re entertaining/informative, especially the ones of previous work leading up to building this
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aaronpk i'm curious about collecting examples of rendering single h-entries in a list
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aaronpk author photo and name placement, timestamp, embedded previews, etc
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aaronpk twitter has done a good job of codifying the various components in their twitter card markup because it's so explicit
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barnabywalters aaronpk: one thing I thought came out particularly nicely in http://waterpigs.co.uk/img/feedreader-feed-search-new-feed-prototype.png is the author name + photo + article name display in the middle ofthe second column
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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bear I would love a spot that had examples of small markup for each item that I could borrow/steal for my stuff
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KartikPrabhu bear: for indieweb stuff?
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KartikPrabhu like an indieweb pattern library?
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bear yea
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bear exactly
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bear here is a note
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bear here is a note with author
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bear here is a note with....
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KartikPrabhu nice idea... someone get on that
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bear it seems I spend more time fighting the bad patterns I create when working on my own site
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KartikPrabhu nods
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KartikPrabhu bear: any reason the ronkyuu requirements are == versions and not >= versions?
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: == is what pip freeze outputs ^
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KartikPrabhu oh...
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bear yea
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bear that is the one almost-bad-but-I-like-it issue
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bear being that i'm a build/release kinda person - the specificity pleases me
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KartikPrabhu yeah i see
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KartikPrabhu ok will keep that intact but remove mf2py
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kylewm yeah upgrading libraries should be an explicit action that you do, cause sometimes there are breaking changes
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bear +1
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bear err
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bear kylewm+1
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KartikPrabhu kylewm++
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bear kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 15 karma
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Loqi kylewm has 16 karma
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kylewm ha, tricked you into double-karmaing me!
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kylewm thanks :)
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bear LOL
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KartikPrabhu kylewm-
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KartikPrabhu kylewm-- ha!
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KartikPrabhu waa... how?