#indiewebcamp 2014-06-09

2014-06-09 UTC
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GWG
Should I stop trying to confuse Loqi?
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GWG
Who am I?
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GWG
Who is kylewm?
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Loqi
Kyle Mahan is a software developer in the SF bay area http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Kylewm.com
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GWG
Who is Kyle Mahan?
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GWG
Interesting
caseorganic joined the channel
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GWG
Who is Loqi?
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GWG
How do I teach Loqi something?
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barnabywalters
if in doubt about topic X, visit indiewebcamp.com/X
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KartikPrabhu
GWG: only aaronpk teaches Loqi. We can only suggest learnables
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barnabywalters
which is what “what/who is X”
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barnabywalters
goodnight all
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Loqi
sleep tight!
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GWG
Loqi: Hak mir nisht keyn tshaynik.
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GWG
kylewm: Did you answer the permalink question?
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tantek
GWG, still around? Seems like you asked a lot of taxonomy questions that I'm not sure what you were trying to figure out
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bret
kylewm: how come all of your instagram syndication links 404?
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bret
are they set to private?
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GWG
tantek: I'm lurking, yes
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tantek
GWG I'm still catching up
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GWG
tantek: I have been working on a Wordpress plugin to automatically set up the different post types.
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GWG
tantek: To do this, I had to create what Wordpress calls a Custom Taxonomy.
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GWG
tantek: That allows me to set posts to type 'reply', type 'like' etc.
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GWG
tantek: Except type is a reserved word, so I am using 'kind'.
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GWG
acegiak: Was attaching this as metadata, but that doesn't allow the flexibility Wordpress attaches to custom taxonomies.
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GWG
That should read acegiak was, not acegiak:
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gRegor`
aaronpk, tantek: I was wondering about the format of the introductions / demos on day one of IWC. If we basically have webmentions set up, should we be ready to send/receive some live, or is it OK to just show examples from the past?
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tantek
gRegor`: up to you.
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gRegor`
Any any other info on that would be helpful. I might be overthinking it. :)
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tantek
you decide how much you feel confident demoing working on your own site
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gRegor`
Ok
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tantek
my advice is to pick the most advanced (per IndieMark) feature you have working to demo, and in the lead up to it, just say/mention what you already have working
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gRegor`
I get a bit nervous about public speaking and have not really done a demo before. Speaking always seems to work out ok once I get going though
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tantek
you can practice by demoing to just one friend
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tantek
or perhaps practice at HWC :)
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gRegor`
Good idea :)
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tantek
that timbray tweet thread is hilarious
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@timbray
How about someone set up a blog for @pmarca - his stuff would be way easier to read. And there’d be a persistent link to it.
(twtr.io/nCQQvMKy_g)
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bret
doesnt he write blog posts in series of tweets?
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tantek
that's why timbray is sayig it would be easier to read as a blog post
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tantek
with *one* permalink for the whole thing
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tantek
would it be too snarky to ask timbray to tweet from his own site? you know, for persistent links
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bret
he does take good care of his site
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bret
this would be a good time for a 'soon' picture of tantek
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tantek
'soon' ?
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bret
its a meme
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tantek
don't ride the white horse?
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bret
lol no like 'soon' you will be tweeting from your own domain
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acegiak
Morning, all
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GWG
Hi, acegiak
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tantek.com
created /pmarca (+66) "stub"
(view diff)
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bret
tantek i think chiming in with anything with a permalink in your tweet would make a point
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tantek.com
created /Marc_Andreessen (+1313) "stub since notable and Tim Bray asked for his tweets to be on his own site"
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tantek
bret, here's a preview
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tantek
(future post)
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tantek
(it's crafted to ellipse right after "Like this …")
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tantek
how's that? hopefully constructive and not snarky
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kylewm
Bret: yes my Instagram is set to private. hadn't thought about the syndication links not working. thanks for pointing that out
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@timbray
How about someone set up a blog for @pmarca - his stuff would be way easier to read. And there’d be a persistent link to it.
(twtr.io/nCQQvMKy_g)
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caseorganic
tantek: good!
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tantek
caseorganic, thanks!
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@t
@timbray better: set up tweet posting @pmarca's site. You know, for persistent #indieweb links. Like this ... http://tantek.com/2014/159/t3/tweet-posting-persistent-indieweb-links
(twtr.io/nCt89iiH2w)
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tantek
updated with quoting timbray himself to make my argument: http://tantek.com/2014/159/t3/tweet-posting-persistent-indieweb-links
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tantek.com
edited /favorite (+357) "add FAQ with Do both or not"
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tantek
GWG - you asked: "How did comics get on there?" Answer: because a couple of us posted them on our own sites and in doing so, figured out how an indieweb site could post indie comics.
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GWG
tantek: Just curious on the background. I was interested why it wasn't merged with photo into 'image' or such
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tantek
GWG - there are bunch of dinguishing features
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tantek
I'll make that documentation more explicit
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GWG
tantek: I like to understand.
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tantek.com
edited /comics (+842) "put IndieWeb Examples first, expand into subsection per person, clarify some more difference from photo"
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tantek
GWG, re: " A repost would be a reply without comment, technically" - it's not clear it makes any sense to design anything for specially "technically" reasons.
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tantek
in addition, I disagree because there is no "replyness" to a repost
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tantek
a repost could be said to be a special kind of *mention* of an original post.
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GWG
tantek: I was speaking in terms of presentation, to be precise.
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tantek
so was I
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GWG
Hmm...okay.
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GWG
I'm just having the hardest time marrying the various conventions.
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acegiak
tantek: I have gone with if a reply has a citation then it's actually a repost with comment. if there's a citation but no comment it's just a repost and if there's just a comment but no citation then it's just a reply
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acegiak
GWG: yeah that's the hard bit
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GWG
acegiak: What's new on your end?
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acegiak
GWG: not a lot. We're having a long weekend of celebrating tabletop roleplaying so that's been my last few days
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acegiak
I was just about to fiddle with doing a the_content filter but what are you up to?
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tantek.com
edited /repost (+508) "improve dfn, separate reposting dfn, why"
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GWG
I spent all weekend boxing up family photos to ship to India?
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acegiak
ok, cool. So if I do some work on presentation stuff I won't be stepping on your toes?
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GWG
No.
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GWG
The photos take 8-10 weeks turnaround time. I wanted to put them in the mail tomorrow
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GWG
So now I can switch back to Wordpress mode
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acegiak
yeah, fair enough
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GWG
So, I'll likely work on that tomorrow.
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GWG
Which it already is there
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acegiak
it's monday lunch time here
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GWG
It is 11PM Sunday here
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acegiak
I'm trying to decide if I can be bothered heating up lunch
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GWG
What did you decide?
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acegiak
I'm leaning towards "cup of tea instead of actual lunch"
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acegiak
which is mostly because I want to curl up and watch youtube instead of stand over a pot
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acegiak
but I know emily would frown at me for that
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acegiak
what I SHOULD do is heat up some soup and get something productive done
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acegiak
whether that's plugin work or game dev
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GWG
acegiak: Flip a coin?
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tantek
GWG - re: "share articles without comment all the time. Is that a reply?" - no. Either it's a repost (if the actual article is reproduced), or it's a linkblog (if it's just a sharing of a link to the article) as a mention.
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acegiak
I usually ask my chatbot
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aaronpk
Loqi: plugin work or game dev?
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Loqi
plugin work
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acegiak
Loqi: biased much? :P
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GWG
Loqi: What is a linkblog?
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acegiak
Well, dobbybot say game dev and he consistently chooses the wrong option, so plugin work it is
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GWG
tantek: A linkblog sounds like a site that only does links.
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acegiak
tantek: oh, interesting. I hadn't thought of the "just a link" option
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GWG
tantek: Is there any markup for a 'linkblog' post then?
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GWG
Someone seemed to call it a mention earlier... http://indiewebcamp.com/mention
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GWG
Such as...
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GWG
What is a mention?
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Loqi
The term mention is used to refer to a post which links to another post without being in response (for example reply/like/repost) to it http://indiewebcamp.com/mention
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aaronparecki.com
edited /mention (+45) "update dfn"
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tantek
Loqi: second dinner or snack?
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Loqi
snack
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GWG
How many years is it going to take me to get this right?
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tantek.com
edited /bookmark (+259) "-h1, fix dfn, IndieWeb Examples,"
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tantek.com
created /linkblog (+22) "r"
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tantek
GWG - it will take longer the more you try to code all at once rather than picking *the one next thing you want* and implementing it, learning, and iterating.
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tantek
you can always figure out / update your abstractions as you add new post types/kinds one by one.
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tantek
what is a linkblog
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Loqi
A bookmark (or linkblog) is a post that is typically comprised of a URL and optional text accompanying it http://indiewebcamp.com/linkblog
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GWG
tantek: My plan was to set a short list, and add to it, and then one by one add the logic that explains their behavior.
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acegiak
tantek: I'm trying to work out how to do favourites and I'm finding the line between linkblog and favourite pretty fuzzy
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GWG
acegiak: A favorite is a like, a linkblog/bookmark doesn't imply anything
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tantek
GWG - rather than a short list, literally just add one at a time.
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GWG
If I get it correctly.
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GWG
tantek: I may try that. Makes it hard to test the code to display the list though.
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tantek
GWG, yes, that's one distinction
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tantek
another distinction: linkblog/bookmark often has text and tags
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tantek
favorites/likes don't
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GWG
The rabbit hole of favorite vs like is not one I'm going to go down right now.
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GWG
I'm just going to declare them aliases and let everyone else duke it out.
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tantek
GWG - are you looking for an easy answer or a deep discussion?
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aaronparecki.com
created /indiechat (+206) "add dfn for #indiechat"
(view diff)
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GWG
tantek: Depends on the topic.
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tantek
specifically on "favorite vs like"
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GWG
tantek: You may have noticed any easy answer automatically turns into a deep internal discussion in me.
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GWG
tantek: I'm curious, yes.
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rascul
hrm /Likes redirects to /like, but /likes is another page
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GWG
I just was saying I wasn't going to touch it in my planning right now.
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GWG
tantek: As per your suggestion about building one thing at a time.
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tantek
ah that's fair
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GWG
I decided I'd set it as an alias and revisit later
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tantek
simple answer: just implement "like" (the verb) and posting "likes" on your own site, because those seems to have the lowest barrier to interaction (e.g. on FB)
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tantek
"favoriting" seems slightly "heavier" in people's minds (judging by how less frequently people do it)
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tantek.com
edited /bookmark (+227) "IndieWeb Examples subsections for each person, add ????-??-?? since dates as placeholders for implementation dates"
(view diff)
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GWG
acegiak: What are the types you use again?
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GWG
acegiak: Since I've been collaborating with you?
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acegiak
GWG: I use like repost and comment in different combinations
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aaronpk
whoa, I just realized I have almost 8 years of bookmarks in my database
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aaronparecki.com
edited /bookmark (+1) "/* Aaron Parecki */ add date I started hosting my own bookmarks"
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GWG
acegiak: I may take tantek's advice and start on like.
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acegiak
tantek: at the moment I don't use any special markup for favoruites on my site, they're just a category of posts
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aaronpk
4 years of delicious bookmarks, then 4 years of self-hosted bookmarks
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acegiak
(the category title is because I posted it before I started getting involved in any of this
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GWG
acegiak: These are a few of my favorite things?
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acegiak
exactly
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acegiak
one of the interesting questions I had to ask myself was what to link to for those posts
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acegiak
on facebook you "like" a thing's Facebook page, whether it be the national opera of nascar
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acegiak
s/of/or/
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Loqi
acegiak meant to say: on facebook you "like" a thing's Facebook page, whether it be the national opera or nascar
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acegiak
so i've gone with wikipedia for my default authoritative list of pages about things
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GWG
acegiak: That works.
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acegiak
but I thought that was an interesting question to have had to ask
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GWG
acegiak: how about a like cloud being a tag cloud of all the tags from like posts?
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tantek
is continuing to braindump research that's been accumulating in his head about post types/kinds.
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acegiak
GWG: for me favouriting a thing is a very specific action. It's an identity statement, like a bumper sticker on a car
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acegiak
tantek: we're only using the word kind because type is a specific thing in wordpress. I would prefer we don't start using it unless we have to because it's an inhererently "fuzzy" word
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GWG
Type, ironically, is the permalink slug for post formats.
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GWG
Not sure why it isn't format
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tantek.com
created /quotation (+621) "stub, dfn, difference from other post types, silo example Tumblr"
(view diff)
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kylewm
type is definitely one of those computer science words that have way too many meanings.
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kylewm
KartikPrabhu: hey I'm not sure if you saw but we deployed the fix to find rel=feed on <a>'s, so it should start working for you now
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tantek.com
edited /bookmark (+1153) "Similar Post Kinds, Reply, Repost, Quotation distinctions, when a bookmark should be one of the others instead."
(view diff)
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rascul
types about the types of languages implementing dynamic types
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rascul
three different meanings in one line!
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GWG
tantek: Thank you
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tantek
GWG - no problem - I think I've caught up with all your previous questions today in IRC regarding different post kinds.
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tantek
And have documented clarifications accordingly on the page(s) for each such post type.
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GWG
tantek: Then what will we talk about in 3 weeks?
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tantek
whatever specific post kind you're implementing that week :)
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: yes. saw the <a> update will keep an eye out for it
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kylewm
man that facebook photo api is all kinds of weird. earlier it had two different urls for the same post, now one of them has become the url for an album of all photos i've posted from my site (?)
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tantek
so many different terms for a "collection" post
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tantek
timeline, album, gallery etc. :/
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GWG
No wonder I'm confused.
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tantek
Flickr is the worst
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tantek
sets, groups,
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: is there someone publishing "collections" in a indieweb way?
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aaronpk
is getting there, but not yet
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kylewm
how would one backfeed comments on a facebook album?
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: send it to the corresponding album on the site?
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tantek
you have to post a collection of your photos yourself
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KartikPrabhu
but FB notion of album may not match yours
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kylewm
I don't have a corresponding album, doh
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tantek
so nowhere to backfeed them too
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acegiak
GWG: I /was/ gonna use checking for post kinds in the display and checking them on and off in the interface, but maybe I should just toggle on and off kinds based on whetehr or not the meta fields are populated?
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acegiak
wait, no because the only data for like is whether or not the taxonomy term is there
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GWG
Yes.
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GWG
I'm working on prepopulation of terms
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GWG
So, it will only add terms if there are no terms.
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GWG
So you can delete/edit without worrying about it. Sort of a 'starter kit'.
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GWG
acegiak: Pushed
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acegiak
coolios
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acegiak
GWG: should I do a pull request for the basic the_content filter I've done?
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GWG
Is it in your repository?
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GWG
Hold off for a bit. I want to look at a few things first.
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acegiak
sure thing
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GWG
I've never done a content filter.
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GWG
I want to read up on it first.
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acegiak
no probs
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acegiak
all I've done for the moment is move a bunch of my stuff from the theme into a content filter
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acegiak
but I want to make a couple of functions to do jobs like return lists of kinds and html classes so that the theme can hook into those if it wants and then have the content filter use those
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GWG
I want to try a few variations.
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acegiak
fair enough
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GWG
acegiak: That is exactly what I was thinking.
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acegiak
coolios
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GWG
I wanted to create a get_post_kind based on get_post_format
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GWG
So, use function syntax similar to post format syntax
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aaronpk
ah crap
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GWG
aaronpk: What's wrong?
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aaronpk
back to the drawing board
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Loqi
lolz
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acegiak
GWG: just pushed a change making the filter toggleable in the options screen defaulting to off
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GWG
I'm heading to bed now. But I'll be fiddling with this again tomorrow.
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GWG
Which, according to my conversion, I'll be home about 8:30AM your time.
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aaronpk
it occurred to me while working on this that since you can currently choose between one of many auth providers like github, twitter, sms, etc, why limit to just one authorization server?
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acegiak
GWG: it's 3:30pm here now
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GWG
acegiak: Thank you, by the way, for being involved in this. This is my first programming collaboration.
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GWG
acegiak: I know. I need to sleep for a few hours, then I have work. By the time I'll be back and able to fiddle with this, it will be Tuesday there
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aaronpk
BUT now that means now that response is going to need to indicate which auth server was used so the site knows how to verify it http://indiewebcamp.com/login-brainstorming#Response
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acegiak
GWG: indieweb stuff is my first real contribution to these kinds of plugins, all my previous collab has been at work or with friends
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GWG
acegiak: Same.
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aaronpk
and because I'm worried about falling into a trap with this if I keep coding, I think it's best if I put this on hold and noodle on it some more
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acegiak
you should sleep more :S
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Loqi
I agree
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GWG
Speaking of which
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GWG
Good night
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Loqi
gute nacht!
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GWG
Loqi: Laila Tov.
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GWG
I just keep trying to confuse it for some reason
eschnou, dybskiy, nloadholtes, jsilvestre, tpinto, friedcell, dybskiy_, dybskiy__, dybski___, carlo_au, petermolnar, bnvk, valan, tantek, pdurbin and jonnybarnes joined the channel
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jonnybarnes
aaronpk: have you seen this?
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jonnybarnes
its a personal analytics tool, I think similar to somethin you've made for yourself
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barnabywalters
acegiak: was it you who added microformats2 to blackwoolholiday.com?
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barnabywalters
the h-entries on the homepage don’t have datetimes, so my current reader implementation always shows them at the top: http://waterpigs.co.uk/intertubes/feed/
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barnabywalters
in order to prevent this from happening (both by accident and on purpose), it looks like three things need to be done on the reader side:
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barnabywalters
check datetimes of incoming posts and cap them at the present if they say they’re in the future
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acegiak
barnabywalters: huh. "add mf2 to blackwoolholiday.com" is on my todo list?
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barnabywalters
acegiak: ah, it must be classic microformats being converted
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barnabywalters
2: replace blank datetimes with the current datetime
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acegiak
i use either supplied datetime of first readtime
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barnabywalters
3: prevent *published* datetimes from being updated,
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acegiak
s/of/or/
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Loqi
acegiak meant to say: i use either supplied datetime or first readtime
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@mlleroulleau
How we're on the verge of an amazing new open web #indieweb - http://werd.io/2014/how-were-on-the-verge-of-an-amazing-new-open
(twtr.io/nDjmsCbWWR)
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barnabywalters
what are timezones?
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barnabywalters
come on Loqi
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Loqi
who, me?
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barnabywalters
what is a timezone?
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bnvk
what is a waterpig?
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bnvk
damn it
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Loqi
hehe
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barnabywalters
bnvk: even Loqi does not know that
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barnabywalters
it is the greatest secret
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waterpigs.co.uk
edited /h-entry (+1653) "/* Using h-entry */ linked to h-feed consumption algorithm, fleshed out per-h-entry algorithm with link to comment-presentation, datetime determination process, stubbed algorithm for handling updates, issues section w/ comment merge issue"
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waterpigs.co.uk
edited /feed (+117) "/* How To Consume */ linked to h-entry consumption"
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bnvk
what are notifications?
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Loqi
notifications in the context of the IndieWeb refer to all forms and ways that an independent web site can receive a message indicating something of interest (server notifications), and potentially relay that information (preferably in realtime) to one or more devices used by the owner of that site (client notifications) http://indiewebcamp.com/notifications
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petermolnar
offtopic:
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petermolnar
what is a waterpig? -> reminds me when my father showed HELP WOMBAT on VMS:
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waterpigs.co.uk
edited /location (+1535) "documented location derivation algorithm"
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bnvk
petermolnar: I have a strange memory of my dad and wombat as well
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barnabywalters
anyone who consumes h-entry data, for your review: http://indiewebcamp.com/h-entry#How_to_consume_h-entry
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bnvk
OMG, I hate the wiki
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bnvk
it logs me out every hr
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bnvk
and just deleted my content
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barnabywalters
bnvk: huh, I thought aaronpk fixed the first issue — what caused the second?
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bnvk
the forms post data getting lost as I had to go log back in
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bnvk
phew, thank goodness for Chromes aggressive page caching
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barnabywalters
bnvk: I’ve rescued form data from browser caches in the filesystem before :)
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bnvk
oh wow
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barnabywalters
bnvk: regarding temporary following, I’ve implemented it and really enjoy it: http://waterpigs.co.uk/intertubes/people-ive-talked-to-recently/
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barnabywalters
though there are some issues which need resolving, which I will document
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barnabywalters
back to actual work now though
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bnvk
nice
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barnabywalters
temporary follow and context-sensitive following (e.g. event, location) is high up on my list of things to have in my feed reader
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@luxagraf
Nothing to see here, just testing a new feature on my site, posting to twitter from my own admin. because, why not? #indieweb
(twtr.io/nE1sox3gDb)
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luxagraf
cool, it worked
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barnabywalters
nice work luxagraf! I see your notes here https://luxagraf.net/notes/
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barnabywalters
looking beautiful, and nicely marked up
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barnabywalters
consider making the h-adr a p-location property of the h-entries instead of a child, and adding authorship of some form
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barnabywalters
either nested h-cards, a page(feed)-level h-card or just a rel=author link
edge226, dybskiy, chrissaad and tantek joined the channel
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petermolnar
url change again, I need to do something about this
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luxagraf
if I were to add an h-card globally, say to my site footer, is that enough to convey authorship for any h-entries on the page?
bnvk, chrissaad and eschnou joined the channel
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jonnybarnes
luxagraf: my experience is it really depends on the consuming software
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petermolnar
in theory the fallback should be the global (if set) in case there's no author for the h-entry itself
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tantek
petermolnar: are you sending a webmention for the old URL that redirects to the new URL?
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tantek
because I think that part is your responsibility (as publisher)
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tantek
then those receiving the webmention can note it as an "update" rather than a "new" webmention for a URL
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petermolnar
to be honest, I'm only using the wordpress webmention plugin and I haven't checked deep enough what's it really doing
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petermolnar
but I will
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barnabywalters
luxagraf: RE page-wide author, that’s one of the major use-cases of h-feed: http://indiewebcamp.com/feed
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bret
is the wiki supposed to keep me logged in?
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bret
i pretty much have to log in every new session
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bnvk
bret: glad I'm not the only one having that problem
squeakytoy, npdoty, holmesfftf, iangreenleaf, snarfed, erikmaarten and brianloveswords joined the channel
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luxagraf
jonnybarnes: yeah, see that's what I don't want to rely on
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luxagraf
barnabywalters: i take it that the h-card needs to be a child of h-feed?
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barnabywalters
luxagraf: it should be the author property — e.g. see how my homepage feed parses: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwaterpigs.co.uk%2F
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barnabywalters
because you’re saying that this h-card is the *author* of the feed
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luxagraf
barnabywalters: got it
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aaronpk
bnvk: go here and check "remember my login" http://indiewebcamp.com/Special:Preferences
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aaronpk
then you'll never be logged out again
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barnabywalters
bret: ^^^^^
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bret
wasnt aware of that setting
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aaronpk
normally there's a checkbox on the login screen but I don't know where it went
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Loqi
shaners: tantek left you a message on 6/5 at 1:32pm: my current web host setup has a 50MB/month bandwidth cap.
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Loqi
shaners: tantek left you a message on 6/5 at 1:33pm: not 50MB, but 50GB monthly bandwidth limit
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shaners
!tell tantek: wow. Do you think you're serving more than 50gb of mostly just HTML/CSS/JS or do you have some wildly popular images/videos/audio?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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shaners
aaronpk: how does Loqi know which gendered pronoun to use?
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Loqi
grins profusely
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bnvk
!tell caseorganic can't wait to see you in Iceland
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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barnabywalters
for some reason it’s a bit creepy to think that aaronpk has a list of our genders somewhere
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shaners
!tell bnvk clever test.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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barnabywalters
I wonder…
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shaners
!tell barnabywalters i wonder if Loqi is infer from our IWC wiki pages
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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barnabywalters
!tell brennannovak blah blah blah blah
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Loqi
barnabywalters: shaners left you a message 10 seconds ago: i wonder if Loqi is infer from our IWC wiki pages
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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bnvk
!tell erinjo yo, just testing out something
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shaners
s/infer/inferring/
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Loqi
shaners meant to say: !tell barnabywalters i wonder if Loqi is inferring from our IWC wiki pages
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Loqi
bnvk: shaners left you a message 1 minute ago: clever test.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell her that when I see her next
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barnabywalters
what is Loqi
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shaners
who is Loqi
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barnabywalters
Loqi is struggling a bit today
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shaners
we are slamming it/he/she pretty hard with this ridiculousness. ;)
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shaners
hang in there, Loqi
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bnvk
hehe
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aaronpk
the best part about Loqi is that people always assume he is smarter than he is
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aaronpk
also see: #indiechat if you want to spam the bot
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bnvk
it's like an inverted uncanny valley
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barnabywalters
bnvk: uncanny mountain, perhaps?
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Loqi
tantek: shaners left you a message 6 minutes ago: wow. Do you think you're serving more than 50gb of mostly just HTML/CSS/JS or do you have some wildly popular images/videos/audio?
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jonnybarnes
so, h-feed, am I fine adding that to my /notes page? Or should I be getting the notes in to my homepage as well (I'd rather not for now)
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jonnybarnes
does the indiechat room get logged anywhere?
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aaronpk
jonnybarnes: not publicly, but you have to assume everyone's clients are logging it
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barnabywalters
jonnybarnes: if you want to add h-feed markup to your notes feed then go for it
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barnabywalters
you only really start to see the benefit if you’re taking advantage of the feed authorship discovery though
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luxagraf
been looking at various people's use of <action>, is there a reference anywhere for the possible values of "do"?
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tantek
shaners - mostly XML/HTML
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tantek
lots of hits on index.html and updates.atom
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tantek
especially by bad bots
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tantek
so I'm blocking them :(
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shaners
wow. i didn't realize you were getting that slammed with traffic.
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aaronpk
how are you blocking them?
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tantek
.htaccess
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tantek
apache rewrite rules
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tantek
needs to write this up on the wiki
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aaronpk
ah cool
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tantek
since it's obviously a bit of indieweb maintenance foo
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tantek
might as well admit to it and document it to help others
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tantek
also something that web hosting companies could compete on
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tantek
I'd really like my web host to auto detect bad bots
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tantek
e.g. IE5.5 User Agent requesting 20 pages a second? I don't think so.
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shaners
haha. that's so fast clicking.
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Loqi
hehe
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tantek
like just a "suspicious clients" section on the stats page
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tantek
suspicious UAs
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tantek
suspicious IPs
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aaronpk
that sounds like a valuable service one could provide
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tantek
with a BLOCK button next to each
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tantek
so I could just check it and be like yeah, block that
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aaronpk
doesn't even necessarily have to happen at the web host level if you point your domain to a proxy and the proxy does the service
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tantek
or even auto-blocking an IP or UA based on THEM exceeding specific bandwidth caps
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iamshane.com
created /Jlsuttles (+31) "Jlsuttles => User:Jlsuttles.me"
(view diff)
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iamshane.com
created /jlsuttles (+31) "Jlsuttles => User:jlsuttles.me"
(view diff)
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barnabywalters
tantek: aaronpk: pretty sure this is one of the services cloudflare offer
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barnabywalters
but I’ve heard mixed things about them and never used them mysefl
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barnabywalters
s/mysefl/myself
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Loqi
barnabywalters meant to say: but I’ve heard mixed things about them and never used them myself
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aaronpk
"We never charge for bandwidth. CloudFlare will never bill you for bandwidth usage. We believe if your site suddenly gets popular or suffers an attack, you shouldn't have to dread your bandwidth bill."
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barnabywalters
argh — is anyone else having apache segfault issues on debian with PHP?
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aaronpk
ugh. I don't use apache or debian.
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luxagraf
shaners: thanks, i had, but it suggests "props" for "favorite", which is a word that will never appear on site, code or otherwise
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luxagraf
so I'm going with barnabywalters bookmark
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shaners
i agree. personally, not a fan of "props".
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: maybe I need to set up nginx finally
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Loqi
caseorganic: bnvk left you a message 39 minutes ago: can't wait to see you in Iceland
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caseorganic
bnvk: me too! it will be fantasticz!
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luxagraf
if I were going to venture a criticism of indiewebcamp it would be in the naming choices
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bnvk
caseorganic: hehe, I was also just testing Loqi's gender prowess
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iamshane.com
created /User:Jlsuttles.me (+1404) "Adds IWC wiki profile for JLSuttles"
(view diff)
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caseorganic
bnvk: i believe Loqi uses "they". :)
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Loqi
who, me?
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bnvk
but sometimes Loqi says "he" as well
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shaners
luxagraf: naming things is hard
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luxagraf
shaners: the hardest part I think
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barnabywalters
luxagraf: feel free to suggest better names, and obviously to use them on your own site
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aaronpk
naming things is one of the two hardest problems in computer science. the other being cache invalidation and off-by-one errors.
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luxagraf
barnabywalters: in this case I like yours, so I'm using bookmark
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shaners
who is jlsuttles
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shaners
Loqi, are you out there?
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aaronpk
shaners: the "who is" draws from the irc-people page
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barnabywalters
who is barnabywalters?
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iamshane.com
edited /IRC_People (+60) "Adds jlsuttles to list"
(view diff)
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shaners
who is jlsuttles
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aaronpk
might take a minute for the cache to catch up... speaking of caching
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aaronpk
also spam the bot in #indiechat
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kylewm.com
edited /kylewm (-29) "Blanked the page"
(view diff)
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aaronparecki.com
deleted /kylewm "Empty Content"
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kylewm
thanks aaronpk, I was just about to ask you to do that
brianloveswords, eschnou, paulcp and tantek joined the channel
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GWG
lunchtime
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kylewm
luxagraf: curious what other names stick out as being bad to you? props'
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kylewm
other than props*
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GWG
props?
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aaronparecki.com
deleted /gRegor` "gRegor` requested deletion"
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luxagraf
kylewm: facepile, selfdogfooding
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aaronpk
facepile was not coined here
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gRegor`
Nor was selfdogfooding, right?
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GWG
I don't like facepile as a word, but it is what it is.
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luxagraf
kylewm: i don't have any better words at the moment, but i think this matters for getting (esp) level 2 people involved
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aaronpk
there's been a lot of talk about finding a better word than selfdogfooding
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GWG
It is like complaining about calling ketchup ketchup instead of catsup
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luxagraf
yeah I know, dog fooding esp goes way back, but they get used all over the wiki
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aaronpk
i'd be happy to use a different word but there hasn't been a good one found yet
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GWG
luxagraf, shouldn't we use language that exists over new nomenclature?
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luxagraf
GWG: I disagree. how you describe things makes them what they are
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kylewm
we got a real Wittgenstein over here!
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GWG
I was more commenting on the public consciousness
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luxagraf
GWG: not when the inherited language is part of the problem you're trying to solve
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GWG
luxagraf, why do we call it a bathroom?
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luxagraf
well, yeah I am a writer, but i don;t think you have to be a writer to recognize that selfdogfooding is not exactly the most appealing phrase to describe something
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luxagraf
GWG: I have no idea
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gRegor`
selfsteakfooding (selftofooding for the vegans)
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etymancer
tofood++
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Loqi
tofood has 1 karma
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GWG
luxagraf, I am sort of playing devil's advocate here
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barnabywalters
“practising what you preach” is a similar phrase
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kylewm
GWG: water closet?
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gRegor`
I was going for tofu+fooding and just shortened it :)
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luxagraf
barnabywalters: yup, and much better
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GWG
kylewm, I like fecal
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kylewm
that's... disturbing?
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luxagraf
and indexed :)
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luxagraf
I plan to write something up on this eventually.
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gregorlove.com
edited /selfdogfood (+131) "/* Discussion */ starting to document the discussion about a more appealing term."
(view diff)
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kylewm
does 'selfdogfooding' even apply to gen 2 people? presumably they'd be using tools built by others
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GWG
kylewm, lavatory? head?
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GWG
kylewm, tools under your control vs not
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gregorlove.com
edited /selfdogfood (+80) "/* Discussion */"
(view diff)
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GWG
Even gui website tools are still creation
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kylewm
I guess you are still creating on your own site, whether you are doing the plumbing or not
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kylewm
GWG: beat me to it. you're right, thanks :)
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GWG
kylewm, I installed my plumbing. I did not forge the pipes
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gRegor`
I think even the simple phrase "use your own product" might be better. UYOP to acronymize it.
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GWG
So, luxagraf, what is your suggested term to replace Facepile?
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aaronpk
i think facepile is cute, what's wrong with it?
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bnvk
I like all things *pile
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gRegor`
I don't find Facepile problematic since it's specific to Facebook.
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bnvk
other candidates:
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bnvk
- stack
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GWG
But the design element is reproduced on other sites
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gRegor`
They coined it, so it's kind of a proper noun for the design pattern.
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onewheelskyward
Much like xerox, kleenex, etc
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barnabywalters
HUMAN-ORIENTED RESPONSE GRID 5000®
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gRegor`
Wheras selfdogfooding is a principle, a fun(ny) slang for "use your own product"
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iamshane.com
edited /Amazon_S3 (+412) "date edge S3+Cloudfront usage and billing"
(view diff)
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gRegor`
barnabywalters++
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Loqi
barnabywalters has 42 karma
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gRegor`
I use model 5001, barnabywalters. 5000 is sooo last year. :)
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bnvk
such a hipster
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gRegor`
I burned my mouth eating pizza before it was cool.
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barnabywalters
gRegor`: well I’M SORRY YOU FEEL THAT WAY. HORG5000 forever
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GWG
How about artisanal content creation?
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gRegor`
Haha
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luxagraf
so long as you think of your own product as food for dogs.
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kylewm
searching "Use your own product", found a nice pro-selfdogfooding article https://medium.com/binary-times/use-your-own-product-or-die-ba3e2d738a55
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iamshane.com
edited /web_hosting (+91) "/* Amazon S3 */"
(view diff)
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gRegor`
took "use your own product" from wikipedia
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luxagraf
the wikipedia page has a suggestion from the criticism section "drinking our own champagne"
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aaronpk
hopes his manual POSSE to twitter and facebook is properly picked up by bridgy this time
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luxagraf
which at least sounds better to people who've never heard the joke
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bnvk
aaronpk: mine worked fine the other day
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gregorlove.com
edited /selfdogfood (+92) "/* Discussion */"
(view diff)
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gregorlove.com
edited /selfdogfood (+49) "/* Discussion */"
(view diff)
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barnabywalters
luxagraf: nice work! for p-location to actually be a nested property it’ll need to be class=“p-location h-adr”
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barnabywalters
this is a perfect test for my location detection code!
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barnabywalters
nice URLs too
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gRegor`
Weird that medium.com doesn't list the full published date in the visible HTML. Just "Jan 16" kylewm
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gRegor`
They list the full published time in <meta property="article:published_time">
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barnabywalters
what even is that
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gRegor`
Ya got me
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luxagraf
barnabywalters: is h-adr not in there anymore? crap, i think i pushed the wrong branch the server. i'll fix that. thanks
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@carlos28936
Nunca se sabe, pero esto tiene pinta de ser el futuro. How we're on the verge of an amazing new open web #indieweb - http://werd.io/2014/how-were-on-the-verge-of-an-amazing-new-open
(twtr.io/nEQmfjSteF)
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gregorlove.com
edited /Medium (+294) "/* Criticism */ Full published date not in visible HTML, but in a meta element."
(view diff)
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kylewm
aaronpk: which thing did you manually posse to facebook/twitter?
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gRegor`
Ok, medium displays the full date for older articles.
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gRegor`
But I guess since the one kylewm linked to is from 2014, it just lists "Jan 16"
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luxagraf
barnabywalters: okay, fixed.
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barnabywalters
luxagraf: looking good!
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gregorlove.com
edited /Medium (+272) "/* Criticism */"
(view diff)
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barnabywalters
luxagraf: this is how your feed looks in my feed testing UI: http://waterpigs.co.uk/img/screen-shot-2014-06-09-at-184936.png
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bret
oh yeah luxagraf++ for getting notes working!
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gRegor`
barnabywalters: meta article:published_time is Open Graph Protocol, apparently.
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gregorlove.com
edited /Medium (+48) "/* Criticism */"
(view diff)
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luxagraf
barnabywalters: seems about right. what's name and why is it false?
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barnabywalters
luxagraf: that’s a helpful property aaronpk’s comment-presentation code adds — if name exists and is not false, then it should be shown as well as the content (e.g. an article). if it’s false, don’t show it (e.g. a note)
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gregorlove.com
edited /Medium (+6) "/* Criticism */"
(view diff)
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barnabywalters
because microformats will always have a name property, you have you figure out whether or not to show it
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luxagraf
barnabywalters: ah, makes sense
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barnabywalters
most of the other weirdly named/duplicate properties are just there for indexing purposes
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luxagraf
now i just need to set up webmentions
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kylewm
luxagraf: didn't realize you were in Athens. neat, I grew up in Marietta
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luxagraf
kylewm: are you still around here? I've been thinking there needs to be indiewebcamp south
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kylewm
luxagraf: no, i'm just another sf bay area transplant now. kinda wish i were there to start iwc south with you!
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luxagraf
kylewm: too bad. i think i'll do the first iwc microcamp
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luxagraf
kylewm: just me, sitting at the new brewery thinking about microformats :)
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kylewm
haha, well that doesn't sound terrible
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luxagraf
This might be an interesting data point to add the webactions page: http://css-tricks.com/poll-results-sharing-buttons/
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tantek
luxagraf: definitely! please add it
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luxagraf
tantek: trying to figure out where to put it
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tantek
since "60% I don't ever use sharing buttons. I share my own way."
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tantek
that's pretty harsh criticism
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tantek
subsection "considered visual clutter" :)
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tantek
(quoted from that URL)
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@Johannes_Ernst
Hey @benwerd, any chance Known will talk MySQL by #indiewebcamp? Would be cool to run it on #IndieBox. http://upon2020.com/banter/?p=273
(twtr.io/nEUUXr7n7j)
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luxagraf.net
edited /webactions (+91) "added link to css-tricks survey"
(view diff)
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luxagraf
Is there a facebook equivalent to twitter's /intent/ urls?
pauloppenheim, KartikPrabhu, caseorganic, pbeaulieu, holmesfftf, eschnou and caseorga_ joined the channel
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aaronpk
sounds like we need a http://indiewebcamp.com/redirect page
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j12t
Hey everybody, a bit of self-promition here, but INC magazine has a great article today titled “The Revolution Will Not Be Monetized” that quotes your’s truly.
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benwerd
FYI: the elearning Domain of One's Own project, which overlaps massively with the indie web, is having a hackathon in LA on July 19-20.
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benwerd
They aim to give students a domain of their own, and encourage them to post to their own sites.
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aaronpk
rascul: kylewm: there are well documented ways to do http redirects with html pages
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tantek
benwerd that's awesome!!!
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benwerd
they are very keen for indie web folks to join them
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rascul
aaronpk more than just meta tags?
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aaronpk
that's the one
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aaronpk
meta equiv
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rascul
yeah that and a js one
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benwerd
j12t - sorry to talk over you. That's really cool!
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rascul
i might be able to do some lua-ing to nginx for a niftier solution though but that won't be until later
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j12t
No probl, IRC is multithreaded/
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aaronpk
i believe google will follow the meta redirect too tho
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j12t
Not a bad article either.
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rascul
that's good if google follows it
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rascul
i could make a thing with flask to listen on /a and redirect to /articles/whatever also
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rascul
ooo there it is the refresh one
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kylewm
rascul: slippery slope, that
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rascul
yeah when i get to it i'll figure out which way is gonna work the best for me
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aaronpk
j12t: congrats on the article!
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j12t
thanks aaronpk
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j12t
always interesting and surprising to see what, after a long interview, makes it into an article …
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tantek.com
edited /fragmention (-436) "incorporate overview into definition, move TOC down"
(view diff)
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bret
aaronpk test subscribing to http://waterpigs.co.uk/services/microformats-to-atom/?url=http://caseorganic.com/notes and http://waterpigs.co.uk/services/microformats-to-atom/?url=http://aaronparecki.com/notes provides a better atom feed than your current one that lacks images, other than lacking a proper feed title
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aaronpk
oh cool
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aaronpk
maybe time to drop my atom rendering
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bear
rascul - I'm adding an example in /nginx of how I solved the redirects issue for a static web site
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tantek
hey KevinMarks I just mentioned fragmentions at the W3C AC meeting
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Loqi
bear: KartikPrabhu left you a message on 6/5 at 8:09pm: do you know any good references on how to make a good requirements.txt where the requirements might be from a github repo to have the latest bleeding-edge stuff? trying to make by blog stuff open on github
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Loqi
bear: KartikPrabhu left you a message 2 days ago: ronkyuu doesn't actually use mf2py but it is in the requirements with an older version. Should I just remove it?
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tantek
and pointed out that it extends URL
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bear
KartikPrabhu - I always just feed the output of "pip freeze" to requirements.txt
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bear
so I get the formatting proper
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bear
!tell KartikPrabhu your answer about requirements.txt -- I always feed the output of "pip freeze" to requirements.txt so I ensure that it will be machine readable when put into the repo or docs
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu
bear: got it :)
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu: bear left you a message 13 seconds ago: your answer about requirements.txt -- I always feed the output of "pip freeze" to requirements.txt so I ensure that it will be machine readable when put into the repo or docs
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bear
and yes please do remove older lib refs
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@benwerd
@hjarche Agree completely! That's why we're doing what we're doing both at @withknown & #indieweb - bringing that back.
(twtr.io/nEc6KeF0LJ)
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KartikPrabhu
bear: alrighty. though I still think mf2py should be used in ronkyuu somehow. will look into that as well
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bear
agree - it should definitely be used - having ours have "almost" implementations of things that are in mf2py leads to fragmentation (the bad kind)
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bear
we should support mf2py by using it and also contributing back to it
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KartikPrabhu
bear: sweet... I'll see how to go about doing that soon
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bear.im
edited /Nginx (+406) "add sample on how to do url redirect routing"
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bear.im
edited /Nginx (+8) "/* static site example */"
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ben_thatmustbeme
so looking at the people based communication links. now that google hangouts has updated to merge sms and hangouts, sms: links will kind of get you to their google hangout, but then you have share your phone number and they have to already have your contacts merged
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rascul
bear thanks that looks pretty easy to do
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bear
it's very easy yea
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bret
Some notes from the reboot rss meetin in NY? https://github.com/Reboot-RSS/reboot-rss/issues
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bret
I think NY
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KartikPrabhu
I am quite confused by the "simplify subscriptions" bit... most feed reader that I know (at least Feedly) auto discovers feed links from the main url. If website/browsers have a "subscribe" button what is it supposed to do?
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KartikPrabhu
I mean what happens once I click the "subscribe" button?
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@indiecomputing
Why having your e-mail on somebody else's cloud is a bad idea: they may not let you have it. #indieweb http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/03/us-yahoo-email-terminated-idUSKBN0EE22P20140603
(twtr.io/nEfrM1ouYY)
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bret
It seems like friend/follow/subscribe could make a good webaction
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KartikPrabhu
must read up on what webactions do...
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bret
KartikPrabhu: basically, when demoing cross site commenting, it became clear that unless the UI can match that of the silos, its going to be a silly round about process
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bret
so webactions are user definable html tags that trigger actions
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bret
with a fallback for users who have not defined an action
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KartikPrabhu
bret: so the readers define the action or the site author?
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bret
this allows for a reply button to live on an indieweb post just like the reply button lives next to a tweet
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bret
KartikPrabhu: action handling is done with an extension right now iirc
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bret
but you could trigger a link back to your posting interface with a reply url as a param
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bret
right from that persons website
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aaronpk
you know how the tweet button pops up a preview window on twitter.com where you can change the text before tweeting?
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aaronpk
that's basically what we were outlining here http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#Micropub_for_Comments
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KartikPrabhu
so in the case of feed subscribing this would mean that the reader has their own feed-reader at some URL
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bret
ohhh that makes sense
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barnabywalters
good evening #indiewebcamp
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barnabywalters
anyone who consumes h-entry data, please review this: http://indiewebcamp.com/h-entry#How_to_consume_h-entry
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barnabywalters
and add/clarify/raise issues/discuss here
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KartikPrabhu
this setup assumes that people reading a website have their own site including at least some feed-subscription mechanism. Seems like a lot of backbone that RSS people are not thinking of
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barnabywalters
anyone who publishes or consumes location data, please review http://indiewebcamp.com/location#How_to_determine_the_location_of_a_microformat and ditto
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aaronpk
KartikPrabhu: what setup?
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: the webactions and the micropub for comments one
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aaronpk
it's a lot of uncharted territory.
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aaronpk
likely will be a big focus of indiewebcamp this year!
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KartikPrabhu
yes. I wonder what the RSS folks are talking about then
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waterpigs.co.uk
edited /h-entry (+0) "/* How to consume h-entry */"
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KartikPrabhu
bret: any idea what "subscribe easily" means without the indieweb context?
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aaronpk
oh are you talkoing about this? https://github.com/Reboot-RSS/reboot-rss/issues missed that somehow
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: yes. webactions would work in the indieweb context. but then what are the RSS folks talking about?
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KartikPrabhu
if the goal is to make subscribing "as easy as silos" then "install this add-on to your browser and add this setting to it" is not a solution
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bret
KartikPrabhu: he means its hard right now to use a feed reader
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KartikPrabhu
no I understand the goal.
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bret
you have to a) enable button on your browser or b) install a discovery tool/extension
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bret
im trying to point out that subscribe is merely another action that should be apart of the html interface
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aaronpk
people always forget about the bookmarks bar. you can do so much cool stuff with it and it's really easy to put things there.
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bret
aaronpk, yeah I use bookmarklets a lot
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aaronpk
and "installing" things there is just making a web page and saying "drag this link up here"
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bret
plus it goes against the goal of matching silo ux
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bret
its a good fallback for sure
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aaronpk
it would be useful to have this so-called ideal silo UX documented somewhere
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bret
KartikPrabhu: right, you cant make feeds as easy as a silo, you just have to support a silo as a fallback
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bret
but in the context of feeds, it could be the other fallback
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KartikPrabhu
bret: hmm didn't understand that at all... which silo? who chooses it?
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bret
as the site owner you choose
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bret
its a fallback
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bret
just as silos make decisions for most people
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bret
feed readers are never going to be as easy as just using a silo
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rascul
thunderbird makes it easy as email
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KartikPrabhu
hmm i thought that was the intended goal of that discussion
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bret
oh gawd
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bret
KartikPrabhu: well, it at least drives awareness of a feeds existance?
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bret
im trying to keep the discussion within the framing
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bret
at least in the repo
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KartikPrabhu
bret: sure thing. I'll keep an eye on it :)
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KartikPrabhu
just trying to understand the question that RSS people are trying to solve
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bret
adding webmention endpoints to a feed, is that so the reader does not have to parse html to find it?
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bret
KartikPrabhu: I think its a similar issue to what we are trying to solve, but more attached to rss
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bret
but then you dont really have rss without html
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aaronpk
that thread seems entirely too RSS centric
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KartikPrabhu
bret: yes. but the trouble is RSS does not have the backbone of the indieweb, with everyone owning their sites and all that
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bret
i think feed readers have a huge potential as micropub clients
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aaronpk
you guys are making me want to BUILD ALL THE THINGS ! stop it!
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bret
KartikPrabhu: most people who i meet that use rss dont activly publish
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bret
so its incredibly limiting to the options when you are in that boat
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KartikPrabhu
bret: I'm sure they actively publish on silos
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barnabywalters
bret: agreed. working on it right now, in fact :)
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bret
KartikPrabhu: yes exactly
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bret
barnabywalters++
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Loqi
barnabywalters has 43 karma
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KartikPrabhu
shhh guys don't let tantek catch us talking about rss :P
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bret
KartikPrabhu: thas silly
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bret
I dont want to alienate the RSS/superfeeder community as they have a lot of solid work in terms of readers
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bret
i mean pubsubhubbub*
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KartikPrabhu
bret: I do think that the indeweb publish+subscribe setup (including indie-readers) will be a better solution to this, than isolated feed-readers.
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bret
it already is! feeds biggest failures is that it didnt allow people to publish to subdomains
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bret
its not your own data, but at least you could post to a url
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bret
(if readers let you publish as well as consume)
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bret
people fell for google readers community features
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KartikPrabhu
bret: Feedly does allow me to share what I read on social silos
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bret
idea: unauthed micropub posting to a website for more traditional comment threads
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bret
not that I want that
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barnabywalters
bret: fwiw superfeedr is pretty awesome. I’m using it heavily in my reader
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aaronpk
bret: pretty sure there's a strong trend away from unauth'd comments in general
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bret
julien does great work
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aaronpk
barnabywalters: do you have any sketches or design docs for this reader?
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bret
aaronpk: yeah i see that too
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aaronpk
barnabywalters: like how I outlined http://indiewebcamp.com/mention-app
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: the prototype is up at http://waterpigs.co.uk/intertubes/, http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4T3FSd/ outlines some features, http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4V6Fna/ is another little bit of design
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barnabywalters
there’s no one place collecting them all yet. I’ll add them to /reader
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aaronpk
ah cool
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aaronpk
or you can make a new page for it too since it's its own project
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barnabywalters
the code is actually all online right now https://github.com/barnabywalters/shrewdness
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bret
aaronpk: are you interested in adding gitpub to the indieweb repo?
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bret
i want to generalize it for anyone to use
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bret
group* on github
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aaronpk
hmm maybe... although most of the things there are libraries, not full apps
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bret
ok thats fine, Ill just link to it form the wiki then
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barnabywalters
bret: does it have a wiki page? is it on /projects?
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bret
no not yet
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kylewm.com
edited /2014 (+5) "/* Other Activities */ specify which location the event is for"
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bret
does twitter even take fake followers seriosly?
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waterpigs.co.uk
created /Shrewdness (+410) "stubbed page with not very much on"
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aaronpk
hm does superfeedr do search?
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kylewm
aaronpk: no, my understanding is that it can track keywords from the time the track is set up into the future
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: search of what specifically?
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aaronpk
well presumably superfeedr is indexing all sorts of things, right?
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aaronpk
cause I can subscribe to http://superfeedr.com/track?include=indieweb and it'll send me updates about things that match
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bear
I don't recall that it stores things using something like elasticsearch
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: yep, anything which it processes containing that keyword will show up in the track feed
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barnabywalters
pretty sure it doesn’t do any additional crawling
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kylewm
why isn't there anything in that feed though?
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aaronpk
cause it's only a realtime feed
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aaronpk
it says in the feed
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bear
it also doesn't store past items that have been published for any meaningful length of time
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waterpigs.co.uk
edited /Shrewdness (+407) "added a bit of background"
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bret
is thinking of doing a cleanup of the projects page
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kylewm
got it
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kylewm
do it bret
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bear
tho, knowing Julien, if you give him a sound reason - he would probably implement it
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bret
kylewm: cant right now but the next indieweb thing I work on
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bret
people dont come to iwc projects page to read about nginx
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kylewm
bret: I didn't mean it quite so demandingly :) i'm just a supporter of cleanup
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bret
lol i got ya :)
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bret
I'll start in userspace
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bret
but thinking of making some more iwc centric categories
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aaronpk
i'm just thinking like how I can search the twitter API for things, it would be awesome if I could search other sites
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aaronpk
basically i want technorati to come back
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bret
iwc is a front to bring back old technorati
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bret
kidding
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kylewm
aaronpk: I've been wanting something just like that too, want loqi to tell us when people make blog posts about 'indiewebcamp' in addition to twitter updates about it
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Loqi
dude
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bret
without twitter
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kylewm
julien said at hwc that superfeedr was definitely a viable way to do it
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aaronpk
yeah it is. we had the notifix bot in here for a bit but it was kind of misbehaving
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aaronpk
julien even gave me some sample node.js code for Loqi so he could subscribe to the hub but I haven't gotten around to implementing it yet
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bret
superfeed is all PuSH right?
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bear
push, xmpp, rss - I think he consumes/delivers all of them
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barnabywalters
also content-agnostic PuSH 0.4
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barnabywalters
which is what I’m using
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bret
I'm a bit fuzzy on the the boundries of those things
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bear
he can poll for changes in rss
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bear
and has rss feeds for updates
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bear
he has an xmpp jid you can send updates to and also receive updates from
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bear
and of cource PuSH
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bret
all i really know xmpp to be is to be the standard IM proticol
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bear
sorta kinda
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bear
xmpp is a message transfer protocol
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bret
hrrmm
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bear
you can use it to send IM (aka messages) or chat messages or event messages
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bear
it also has muc (multi-user chatrooms) and pubsub items
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bret
didnt overtake irc it seems?
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bear
it's biggest feature is federated user and identity
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bear
no, because IRC and XMPP are in different realms really
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bear
irc allows for anyone to connect to any server and eventually get all of the messages
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bear
xmpp says you connect to your server and then have it connect to other servers as needed
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bear
there are some overlaps, but it's really the federated identity and messaging that is the core of xmpp
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bret
is there any crossover with serverless xmpp?
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kylewm
aaronpk: also along the same lines, this thing you said last week stuck out to me http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-06-03/line/1401834092
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bret
err xmpp with serverless clients*
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bear
there are some implementations of that for IoT and other specific implementations
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bear
but really the xmpp crowd don't like serverless connections - it removes the core part of what makes xmpp secure
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aaronpk
kylewm: yeah!
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bret
totally
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bear
there are some in the IoT realm who are trying for it
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bear
but really it boils down to having them be proxies in a pretend cluster
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bret
bear++ thanks for the info, it helps
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Loqi
bear has 7 karma
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bear
bret - anytime - part of my job as XSF Board member and long-time XSF member
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bret
i wish we chatted more when you were in portland :)
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@djp1974
'Re-decentralised the internet': @timbernerslee in the #Web at 25 series, @WiredUK March 2014: http://www.wired.co.uk/magazine/archive/2014/03/web-at-25/tim-berners-lee #indieweb
(twtr.io/nEo3JDDchR)
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bear
yea, I love to catch up with local folks when I travel
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GWG
bear: Where do you travel?
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waterpigs.co.uk
edited /Shrewdness (+528) "added section about the feed testing UI with screenshow"
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aaronpk
I need an auth buddy
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aaronpk
it's hard keeping all this stuff straight in my head. and I also often need multiple implementations of things
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: talking about indieauth/micropub? I’d volunteer, but one of the reasons I made taproot/authentication was so that I wouldn’t have to hold all that stuff in my head :)
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aaronpk
I know :)
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barnabywalters
just add one line of code and *poof*, it all works
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aaronpk
that's how it should work once it's all done
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waterpigs.co.uk
edited /Shrewdness (+345) "Added some more screenshots, design work"
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bear
GWG - I am often in Portland OR for events, in San Francisco for customer stuff, in Portland ME for Monktoberfest and to New York for customer stuff
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bear
and then sprinkle in some Boston or DC around
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GWG
What is Monktoberfest?
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bear
http://monktoberfest.com/ - a single track technology + beer event put on by the Redmonk folks
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waterpigs.co.uk
edited /Shrewdness (+505) "moar screenshots"
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hober
bear: that's where we met! (the first monktoberfest)
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bear
yep :)
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aaronpk
barnabywalters++ for screenshots
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Loqi
barnabywalters has 44 karma
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: hopefully they’re entertaining/informative, especially the ones of previous work leading up to building this
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aaronpk
i'm curious about collecting examples of rendering single h-entries in a list
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aaronpk
author photo and name placement, timestamp, embedded previews, etc
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aaronpk
twitter has done a good job of codifying the various components in their twitter card markup because it's so explicit
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: one thing I thought came out particularly nicely in http://waterpigs.co.uk/img/feedreader-feed-search-new-feed-prototype.png is the author name + photo + article name display in the middle ofthe second column
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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bear
I would love a spot that had examples of small markup for each item that I could borrow/steal for my stuff
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KartikPrabhu
bear: for indieweb stuff?
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KartikPrabhu
like an indieweb pattern library?
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bear
exactly
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bear
here is a note
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bear
here is a note with author
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bear
here is a note with....
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KartikPrabhu
nice idea... someone get on that
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bear
it seems I spend more time fighting the bad patterns I create when working on my own site
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KartikPrabhu
bear: any reason the ronkyuu requirements are == versions and not >= versions?
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kylewm
KartikPrabhu: == is what pip freeze outputs ^
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bear
that is the one almost-bad-but-I-like-it issue
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bear
being that i'm a build/release kinda person - the specificity pleases me
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KartikPrabhu
yeah i see
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KartikPrabhu
ok will keep that intact but remove mf2py
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kylewm
yeah upgrading libraries should be an explicit action that you do, cause sometimes there are breaking changes
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bear
kylewm+1
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bear
kylewm++
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Loqi
kylewm has 15 karma
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Loqi
kylewm has 16 karma
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kylewm
ha, tricked you into double-karmaing me!
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kylewm
thanks :)
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm-- ha!
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KartikPrabhu
waa... how?