#indiewebcamp 2014-06-20

2014-06-20 UTC
fmarier, gRegor` and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
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ShaneHudson snarfed: Hey, have you considered allowing brid.gy to use permashortcitations as webmentions?
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ShaneHudson I agree with http://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#POSSE_to_Twitter about not having links but that means it can't fetch replies etc. But if there was a way to say [324] should go to shanehudson.net/324 then that would work really well... what do you all think?
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kylewm ShaneHudson: if you publish rel=syndication (or u-syndication) links on your site, then Bridgy can find the relationship from the other direction
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aaronpk ShaneHudson: if you include the rel=syndication link from your post to the tweet bridgy will find it even if the tweet doesn't ahve a link
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aaronpk junk
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kylewm buy me a coke
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ShaneHudson Oh that is awesome. Thanks :D
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aaronpk s/unk/inx
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Loqi aaronpk meant to say: jinx
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ShaneHudson I've been fiddling around with Sebastian's plugin and it is a great start. And now the book is done I have some time to care for my site :)
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snarfed (ShaneHudson: bridgy has also supported PSCs pretty much since the beginning. but rel-syndication is the new hotness!)
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kylewm oh right, but permashortcitations != [324]
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ShaneHudson True, I don't have a short domain so thought putting in [ ] could be nice.
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kylewm i'm not sure if that's something we thought about, that would be another good way to do it, concatenate the user's URL with an even shorter citation
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aaronpk that seems even more obscure to someone looking at it
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kylewm yes, and not globally unique
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snarfed eh maybe. agreed w/aaronpk
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snarfed now that we have rel-syndication, PSCs (and friends) now seem like a pretty gross hack that can die
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ShaneHudson Yeah I agree, I didn't know about rel-syndication (or at least, didn't realise its power)
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ShaneHudson Right it is 2am so I best be off to bed, but thanks :) Looking forward to finally enabling posse! Need to find a way to use Tweetdeck still though, but through my site instead of twitter.
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aaronpk i miss the days when you could point twitter clients at arbitrary endpoints
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ShaneHudson Yeah :(
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snarfed somehow i'm generating a unix timestamp that's 13k *digits* long
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snarfed time to go home
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aaronpk sounds like it has milliseconds
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aaronpk !date
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Loqi Now: 2014-06-19 18:09:40 PDT Unixtime: 1403226580 NewCal: 2014-3-49, New Saturday, the 49th day of the third bim
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snarfed aaronpk: 13*k* digits
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aaronpk .... oh
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snarfed as in, order of 10^13000 or so
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snarfed definitely time to go home
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aaronpk you're living in the FUTURE
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snarfed heat death of the universe
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snarfed and then some
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kartikprabhu.com edited /User:Kartikprabhu.com (+335) "/* Itching */ homepage idea" (view diff)
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fcns.eu edited /2014/Guest_List (+292) "/* East */" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu would appreciate thoughts on this little idea http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Kartikprabhu.com##better+homepage+idea
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aaronpk sounds similar to some of my thoughts https://github.com/aaronpk/p3k/issues/22
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GWG KartikPrabhu: Didn't I tell you some of mine already?
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: yup! that is why I am a little sceptical of the /homepage ideas where the homepage is more like your profile page
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KartikPrabhu GWG: no that i recall... you sjould write them down so you can link it easily
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GWG aaronpk: I like parts of your design.
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GWG aaronpk: I should give you points for keeping track of your website development that way though
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GWG Is it points or props?
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@therealdeiu Just signed up for #indiewebcamp next week in New York. Looking forward to interesting discussions! (twitter.com/_/status/479808448477925376)
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aaronpk i'll take points
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aaronpk i am bad at keyboard
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aaronpk something I pressed made chrome close all windows :(
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KartikPrabhu windows can be restored too i think
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KartikPrabhu at least if FF
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aaronpk yeah it restored *whew*
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KartikPrabhu also a very interesting piece by http://craigmod.com/journal/post_artifact/ which I am writing about as part of my "secret project" :P
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rascul aaronpk what is happening to cause me to keep breaking indieauth?
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rascul sometimes when i hit rescan it works, others i get ssl error
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aaronpk i don't know and it's super annoying
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rascul oh have i been spamming you with indieauth breaking?
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rascul sorry :(
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aaronpk it broke for me earlier today too
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rascul also how do i do the gpg login?
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rascul when i sign it, it says it was signed with the wrong private key
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rascul The challenge was signed with the wrong key.
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rascul i've tried various ways of signing it and it doesn't work
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aaronpk well that's weird
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aaronpk i'm seeing it in my dev copy. i'll take a look in a sec.
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aaronpk going to the store to get refreshments.
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rascul https://rascul.io/rascul.pub is the public key for my private key, i have verified this several times since then
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rascul ok
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rascul it's also same key that keybase has, i've tried using keybase to sign it and gpg but it doesn't take
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rascul i did fix my g+ thing from earlier though, i didn't have my rascul.io link in the right place on my profile
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kartikprabhu.com edited /2014/Guest_List (+34) "/* East */ updated links by fcns.eu" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: quill is still doing the "not send anything" on clicking Post unless I log in again. Can't seem to figure out what it is. no errors in the console
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GWG KartikPrabhu: Another East signup....
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GWG I think we lost to West though
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KartikPrabhu yup! but we can beat them at what we do! ;)
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KartikPrabhu quality not quantity :P
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GWG KartikPrabhu: So, what is our secret quality weapon?
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KartikPrabhu GWG: read http://craigmod.com/journal/post_artifact/ for clues and also for how good that article is. Another clue is fragmentions
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KartikPrabhu should not hype things that might not be done in a week :P
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GWG KartikPrabhu: What about me? What do I do to destroy those westerners?
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KartikPrabhu GWG: any progress is good progress honestly
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KartikPrabhu I am just working on something I wanted to make for a long time and will be visible on the site instead of 'plumbing' like a file storage database or something
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KartikPrabhu GWG: what things do you want to implement?
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I have many dreams.
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I want to make the Indieweb easier
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GWG Not just for me, but for all interested parties
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rascul good goal
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KartikPrabhu GWG: very good goal indeed. Anything particular that could be done for that?
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rascul i don't see my software helping with that though heh
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rascul it's probably going to be too many pieces with too complex a setup for the newbies!
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rascul s/newbies/anybody but me/
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Loqi rascul meant to say: it's probably going to be too many pieces with too complex a setup for the anybody but me!
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KartikPrabhu rascul: not all indieweb implementations need to do that. Some can be for experiments at the bleeding edge
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rascul indeed
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I use Wordpress, so all my plans are based on that
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GWG I have several I've worked on.
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KartikPrabhu GWG: Wordpress is a good space for that goal IMO. but i think you should choose one specific task that you could show at IWC and say "see this little thing makes indieweb a bit easier for newbies"
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KartikPrabhu GWG: or not. IWC is not restricted to showing off. which is a good thing :P
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GWG KartikPrabhu: All of my pieces are gradually coming together.
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KartikPrabhu I'm just hoping to impress all you smart folk with my project :P
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aaronpk back!
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GWG KartikPrabhu: tantek will be in the room. If anyone will respond with constructive feedback, it is him, from what I see
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KartikPrabhu nods
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KartikPrabhu hence I am hoping to be tantek-proof by thinking about UI/UX too ;)
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aaronpk man I really wanna do this mobile qr-code based key login
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: does anyone use qr codes at all?
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aaronpk in this case the qr code is just a convenient encoding mechanism
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aaronpk it could technically be some other code like the clef code, but the ios sdk has a qr code reader built in now
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KartikPrabhu in my experience, people seem to have some guttural disdain for qr codes... almost irrational
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk but people use them to set up two-factor auth all the time
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GWG KartikPrabhu: tantek-proof sounds negative.
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aaronpk in certain contexts they're useful. printing them on a sign and expecting people to scan it to go to a website is not one of those contexts
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KartikPrabhu GWG: yeah. but i only mean it in a "wink-wink-nudge-nudge" sense
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: possibly. would be an interesting experiment
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aaronpk unfortunately that is now what most people think of as a use for a qr code
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GWG aaronpk: The problem with the QR code is that it can be difficult.
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aaronpk what do you mean difficult?
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aaronpk rascul: found the problem with the mismatched keys. fixing it now...
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rascul ooo goodie
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GWG aaronpk: When you see a sign, you want to scan the code quickly.
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GWG aaronpk: However, QR codes aren't prevalent enough to have your QR scanner up front
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aaronpk GWG: i'm not talking about that
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GWG aaronpk: I was just explaining why I don't use them.
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aaronpk yeah I agree. that use case is dumb
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aaronpk but they are useful in specific contexts. like setting up two-factor-auth where you need to quickly get a large key from your computer to your phone
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aaronpk my favorite error messages to write: "this should never happen"
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GWG My luck, I'd get that
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aaronpk no way! it could never happen :P
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rascul aaronpk i may have found another issue, but it may also be related to the ssl thing that comes up sometimes
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aaronpk yes it is
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aaronpk also wtf
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rascul the gpg verification says loading
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rascul and doesn't seem to load, but it appears to be only when rescanning gives ssl error
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aaronpk ooh ok gotta trap that error then
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KartikPrabhu is having a small writers' block
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rascul me and indieauth haven't been getting along well lately :(
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aaronpk it's this stupid ssl problem. i don't get it.
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aaronpk i severely dislike things that do different things at different times with the same inputs
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KartikPrabhu rascul: better you find these bugs than someone who can't/won't help debug them
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rascul i've never worked with ssl as a developer only as a user
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rascul KartikPrabhu yep you're right about that
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KartikPrabhu I have done neither :P
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KartikPrabhu actually I have. I struggled with python2 lack of SNI support and then stopped checking for SSLs and gave up
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rascul eh, user and admin maybe i should say
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rascul.io created /dokku (+288) "Created page with "{{ stub }} '''<dfn>[https://github.com/progrium/dokku Dokku]</dfn>''' is a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_as_a_service PaaS] implementation similar to [https://heroku.c..."" (view diff)
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rascul i told tantek i would make /dokku today but i forgot so i stubbed it until i get to it tomorrow
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aaronpk rascul: try again! fixed the mismatched key error
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rascul ok i shall try
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rascul success!
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aaronpk hooray!
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KartikPrabhu little peek at my "secret project" a half-written article to be published on the IWC date: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia
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gRegor` Whoa. http://codespaces.com
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gRegor` Majorly hacked. "In summary, most of our data, backups, machine configurations and offsite backups were either partially or completely deleted."
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KartikPrabhu oopsies
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KartikPrabhu someone more knowledgeable needs to document how to avoid such things on the indieweb
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KartikPrabhu "offsite backups" being deleted bothers me a lot
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aaronpk wow
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: what did codespaces do?
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aaronpk it sounds like they may have considered backups in alternate regions "off-site"
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aaronpk from that explanation it sounds like the hacker only had access to the AWS account
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KartikPrabhu oh... people need to have a real offline backup then it seems
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KartikPrabhu or multiple ones just in case
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: It's all on their site.
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gRegor` This isn't just a big oops, it's the end of codespaces apparently.
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aaronpk i don't see any description of codespaces on their site, it's just a description of the incident
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: I meant what functionality did codespaces provide to customers
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gRegor` Oh, sorry. Misread you.
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gRegor` Hehe :)
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gRegor` code repos, from what I can tell. I was not familiar before today
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aaronpk http://web.archive.org/web/20140208012338/http://www.codespaces.com/
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aaronpk "We offer Rock Solid, Secure and Affordable Svn Hosting, Git Hosting and Project Management."
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KartikPrabhu for instance what motivation did a "hacker" have to attack them apart from pure-malice
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gRegor` Watch the world burn, probably.
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aaronpk this is obviously purely speculation, but likely something personal
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KartikPrabhu oh poop! the "secure" bit is really under doubt now
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KartikPrabhu if/when this hits the news this might mean more people standing behind large silos
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gRegor` I think "rock solid" is in question too :)
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KartikPrabhu not good not good at all
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aaronpk oh man the customer list... http://web.archive.org/assets/201205/client_logos-d51e24d382079e277b1afcf1ef3876eb.png
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aaronpk all large enterprises
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aaronpk also not good for enterprise customers trusting startups
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gRegor` 404 error on that link
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: yes 404 on that link.
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gRegor` So, uh, let's be sure we have our code backed up and not just in repos. :)
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aaronpk weird, must be cookied. here have this: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5568/14276915978_b9fb9d5880_b.jpg
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KartikPrabhu judas priest! aaronpk that is a bad list to piss off
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gRegor` copyright 2007-2013 so, not new kids on the block...
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KartikPrabhu someone needs to write this up so this does not happen to people here for whatever reason
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KartikPrabhu maybe a talking point for IWC too. took screenshot of codespaces.com page for posterity ...
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Sessions
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aaronpk one good thing about the situation is that despite the hacker gaining access to their AWS account, they were not able to actually access any machines, so they couldn't steal customer data or anything. this is because the AWS control panel is completely separate from actual SSH or console access to the servers.
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KartikPrabhu aaoronpk: have vs want ? does someone official have to add to have?
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: "have" just means you're willing to lead the session
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KartikPrabhu oh that isn't me... I'll propose to want... will draft one shortly
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/Sessions (+89) "clarify have vs want" (view diff)
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aaronpk setup instructions for GPG auth! https://indieauth.com/gpg
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: you around?
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: yup
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aaronparecki.com edited /indieauth.com (+370) "add links to TOTP and GPG setup instructions" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu I want to reply to a G+ post, but G+ does not give a URL for comments! Will bridgy pickup follow up comments anyway somehow?
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: hmm, i'm not sure i follow
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KartikPrabhu wait looking for example
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aaronpk glad i'm not the only one having this problem http://help.rubygems.org/discussions/problems/11197-sporadic-ssl-errors
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: this a photo my friend posted: https://plus.google.com/+VaibhhavSinha/posts/8WL81ow1eyW I want to comment on it, but since G+ does not assign a URL to comments I can't have it in my syndication links. And my friend does not do indieweb yet. So if he replies to my comment, bridgy can't pick it up.... yes?
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aaronpk also this unanswered question :/ http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12696147/intermittent-ssl-certificate-verification-failures-with-mechanize-and-ruby
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: so, you want to posse a comment on that post?
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KartikPrabhu yeah and have bacfeeds too
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snarfed yeah, bridgy doesn't backfeed responses to comments at all, g+ or otherwise
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snarfed it does on twitter because "comments" (ie @ replies) are full fledged tweets
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snarfed but otherwise no
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: yes that's what I guessed. I'll posse it anyway and document this stupidity for G+ thanks :)
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snarfed already documented:
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snarfed http://indiewebcamp.com/Google%2B#Lack_of_comment_permalinks
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snarfed but definitely annoying, yeah. gl!
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KartikPrabhu will manually backfeed somehow....
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snarfed sure!
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snarfed consider priorities though :P
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snarfed if you really want to, go for it…but you may eventually hit diminishing returns
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snarfed it's ok to not posse 100% of everything everywhere
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: I'll posse the comments and only manually backfeed the "important replies" whihc G+ will tnotify me anyway... certainly won't keep track of all replies forever
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aaronpk ok that was a good push on indieauth.com! goodnight!
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Loqi laila tov!
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KartikPrabhu kylewm snarfed: the new look for rel=feed in <a> totally worked! see: https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/479812568261730304 and https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/IWC-andreisambra thanks for the good work!
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@kartik_prabhu @therealdeiu awesome! Looking forward to the discussion myself. Also I corrected some of your project links on the RSVP page by guesswork. (twitter.com/_/status/479812568261730304)
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: glad to hear it! all kylewm's great work
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KartikPrabhu kylewm++ for rel=feed in <a> for bridgy
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Loqi kylewm has 19 karma
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Loqi pfefferle: GWG left you a message on 6/19 at 6:44am: Put some notes on the Development page about filter placement. Not sure if you want to add anything
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /fragmention (+0) "Moved TOC below example to prevent ugly mid-link line breaks" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4Wg9H_/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/fragmention (webmention)
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@BarnabyWalters @brucel regarding linking to arbitrary point in a document, check out http://indiewebcamp.com/fragmention (http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4Wg9H_/) (twitter.com/_/status/479915990084354049)
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barnabywalters welcome back Loqi
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Loqi barnabywalters: aaronpk left you a message on 6/19 at 2:11pm: I already invalidated your screencast, sorry :-/ try signing in to indieauth.com again!
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Loqi :)
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barnabywalters !tell aaronpk nice work on the indieauth PGP UI, having the challenge in the textbox is a big improvement! only request now is for faster challenge generation, it takes a couple of seconds for some reason
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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bnvk ok, so IWC Berlin is shaping up better than expect
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bnvk s/expect/expected
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Loqi bnvk meant to say: ok, so IWC Berlin is shaping up better than expected
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bnvk we have a nice place secured with good internet and a projector
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bnvk it's going to be a smaller meetup, but am updating the wiki now
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barnabywalters bnvk: awesome! awaiting dates+times
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bnvk barnabywalters: how do you mean?
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barnabywalters bnvk: if it’s in sync with the US ones, i.e. late evening there’s a small chance I could get a train into Berlin for the duration
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GWG barnabywalters: They have trains from Iceland to Germany?
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barnabywalters GWG: I’ll be in Hösseringen, about 1.75hrs from Berlin at the time
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GWG Oh
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GWG I was wondering there.
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GWG I didn't think my geographical knowledge was that bad
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bnvk barnabywalters: ok, i'm thinking of it starting at 2:00 PM here, which is -1 hr from when NYC starts up
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barnabywalters bnvk: cool, when I get to Hösseringen I’ll figure out if it’s feasible to visit for an evening
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bnvk great
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bnvk the space it's at is so friggin cool- one of the neatest coworking places I've ever been to- lots of nature
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bnvk How should I put this on the wiki? Should I put Berlin (Far East) before the NYC or at the end of http://indiewebcamp.com/Guest_List
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barnabywalters bnvk: given that you have a space and some people attending, probably put it at the top
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barnabywalters otherwise, there’s always http://indiewebcamp.com/2014#Remote_Indiewebcamp_Parties
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GWG bnvk: Far East might be confusing.
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GWG bnvk: That usually is a term for Asia.
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GWG How about... (Farther East) ?
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bnvk hehe true
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GWG bnvk: You could try Osten, isn't that German for East?
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bnvk hehe
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ben_thatmustbeme good morning
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brennannovak.com edited /2014 (+477) "/* IndieWebCamp 2014 */" (view diff)
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brennannovak.com edited /2014 (+54) "/* IndieWebCamp 2014 */" (view diff)
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brennannovak.com edited /2014/Guest_List (+168) "/* IndieWebCamp 2014 */" (view diff)
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brennannovak.com edited /2014/Guest_List (-401) "/* Remote Participants */" (view diff)
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brennannovak.com edited /2014/Guest_List (+920) "/* East */" (view diff)
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brennannovak.com edited /2014/Guest_List (+76) "/* Further East */" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks "@michaelwolf: Looks like Medium is starting to become a repost blog for everyone's personal and corporate blogs." #indieweb #posse (twitter.com/_/status/479999209404235777)
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KartikPrabhu for the Wordpressers here: http://inside.envato.com/the-future-of-wordpress/
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bnvk What is the best place to link to the WebMention protocol? webmention.org used to be a really nice site, now it forwards to a GH repo
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bnvk https://github.com/converspace/webmention/blob/master/README.md
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rascul webmention.io ?
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barnabywalters there’s http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention
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barnabywalters that’s what I tend to link to, e.g. from http://waterpigs.co.uk/mentions/webmention
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bnvk rascul: the .io site is a service, not the protocol though
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bnvk okie
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bnvk i'lll use the IWC link
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rascul ahh ok
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@brennannovak Interested in a better & more open web? Come learn & hack at #IndieWeb Camp 2014 in Berlin... http://bnvk.me/B2y (twitter.com/_/status/480012789243580418)
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kylewm re: the future of wordpress, i'm a little surprised there isn't already a super stripped down "blog-only" fork of wordpress
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kylewm but i guess it's always surprising how few people are really core developers of even such a widely used product
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@brennannovak Interested in a better & more open web? Come learn & hack at #IndieWeb Camp 2014 in Berlin @agoracollective http://bnvk.me/B2y (twitter.com/_/status/480016782900887554)
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bnvk frick, my POSSE tool is acting up
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tantek bnvk - you got space in Berlin for IWC2014?!? Wow that's awesome!!!
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tantek so now we have West, East, and EU!
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bnvk yep
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bnvk :)
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tantek :D
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tantek bnvk - do you know the hood.ie folks? They are in Berlin and I heard they are interested in IndieWeb as well.
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bnvk tantek: yah, I randomly bumped into Jan while eating burritos last week
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bnvk hopefully he and others will be interested in coming
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tantek bnvk - great!
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tantek btw - as folks here use a lot of microformats - today is microformats.org's 9th bday
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dysfun it's also x windows' 30th birthday
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@MailpileTeam In Berlin? Come learn about the #IndieWeb and Mailpile on June 28th http://bnvk.me/B2y (twitter.com/_/status/480020706064076801)
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tantek.com edited /2014/Guest_List (+3) "/* IndieWebCamp 2014 */ abbreviate states" (view diff)
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@marxistvegan RT @MailpileTeam: In Berlin? Come learn about the #IndieWeb and Mailpile on June 28th http://bnvk.me/B2y (twitter.com/_/status/480021067092996097)
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@cataspanglish RT @MailpileTeam: In Berlin? Come learn about the #IndieWeb and Mailpile on June 28th http://bnvk.me/B2y (twitter.com/_/status/480021911477710848)
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aaronpk whoa cool! berlin!
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Loqi aaronpk: barnabywalters left you a message 3 hours, 10 minutes ago: nice work on the indieauth PGP UI, having the challenge in the textbox is a big improvement! only request now is for faster challenge generation, it takes a couple of seconds for some reason
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aaronpk barnabywalters: thanks! Yeah it takes a second. I think it goes out and checks your site to make sure it's requesting to generate the challenge with the proper key.
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aaronpk I suppose after you do it once I could pre-generate the challenge and embed it in the page when you load up the initial auth screen so then at least subsequent visits would show the challenge instantly
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tantek if anyone here would like to review a blog post draft about microformats.org's 9th bday, take a look: http://microformats.org/wiki/turns-nine-upgrade-to-microformats2
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tantek I plan to post it on my own site in about 1-2 hours and then manually POSSE to microformats.org (just as barnabywalters did with his previous post).
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@badgermind RT @MailpileTeam: In Berlin? Come learn about the #IndieWeb and Mailpile on June 28th http://bnvk.me/B2y (twitter.com/_/status/480024130511990784)
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@rknLA RT @MailpileTeam: In Berlin? Come learn about the #IndieWeb and Mailpile on June 28th http://bnvk.me/B2y (twitter.com/_/status/480024152556847104)
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@hugoroyd I wish I could come but I won’t be in Berlin next week! I hope there will be other indieweb events later this .. https://ampoliros.net/2014/i-wish-i-could-come-but-i-wont-be-in (twitter.com/_/status/480024160501264384)
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tantek great!
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barnabywalters there are more Known installs every day now!
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barnabywalters it’d be awesome to see bridgy-esque stats about that
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aaronpk bnvk: so cool that you're hosting one in berlin! you should add a berlin section to the schedule! http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Schedule
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aaronpk also tantek it's probably time to start thinking about schedule coordination between PDX / NYC
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@hugoroyd RT @brennannovak: Interested in a better & more open web? Come learn & hack at #IndieWeb Camp 2014 in Berlin @agoracollective http://t.co/J… (twitter.com/_/status/480024592577478657)
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rascul berlin? indieweb is taking over the world!
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bnvk aaronpk: I will do that soon
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aaronpk I put a first pass at a joint schedule here http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Schedule
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tantek sounds good
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tantek going to be even more interesting with Berlin!
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tantek maybe we can do join NYC morning / Berlin afternoon sessions (only 6 hours difference)
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tantek s/join/joint
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Loqi tantek meant to say: maybe we can do joint NYC morning / Berlin afternoon sessions (only 6 hours difference)
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tantek bnvk ^^^
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tantek and then joint NYC afternoon / PDX morning sessions
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barnabywalters goal for next year: inhabit ALL THE TIMEZONES and keep a rolling indiewebcamp going for a week :)
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bnvk yah!!!!
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aaronpk hahaha
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tantek all we need is Australia (where's mnot?) and we could keep it rolling the whole weekend!
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Loqi ahahaha
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bnvk tantek: that would be absolutely great!
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bnvk brb, eating
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tantek excellent
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tantek ok I too need to go get lunch
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@benwerd Gathering content in a space you control: doubling down on #indieweb & journalism http://werd.io/2014/gathering-content-in-a-space-you-control-doubling-down-on (twitter.com/_/status/480027859021348866)
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Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/gathering-content-in-a-space-you-control-doubling-down-on linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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aaronpk barnabywalters: ask and ye shall receive! try signing in again ;)
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barnabywalters aaronpk: wonderful! now the biggest bottleneck is on mouse clicking time and time taken to sign!
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barnabywalters this is awesome!
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aaronpk i should make a keyboard shortcut to submit the form. it auto-focuses in the challenge text so you don't need to click there
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aaronpk but tab-space should work to submit it
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aaronpk actually yeah you don't need to use the mouse at all!
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tantek great post benwerd
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barnabywalters for some reason the default one for sign is command-shift-r, which of course refreshes firefox
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tantek *now* I need to get lunch :)
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aaronpk it's usually the last in the list, so first press "k" to select the last element, then enter which brings up the challenge. then command-a to select all, then your keyboard shortcut for signing (mine is command-alt-s) then tab space to submit
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benwerd tantek: Thank you! I've been pushing the NY journalists we've been meeting to go attend IWC at the NYT. Hopefully they will do that.
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tantek benwerd I hope so too
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tantek we don't have a POSSE event for that on FB though - so I'm not sure how they will (unless they do sign-in with their own site on the wiki)
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aaronpk hmm should I make a POSSE event for PDX?
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tantek aaronpk - did you post an Indie Event?
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aaronpk not yet
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tantek that would make the most sense, that way you would get FB RSVPs via bridgy to your Indie Event.
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tantek pretty sure snarfed deployed that Bridgy functionality a few weeks ago
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aaronpk true
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tantek I think I've seen it work on benwerd's indie events that he POSSEs to FB
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aaronpk yeah i've got a bunch of other indie events with FB rsvp's
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benwerd yep, definitely
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tantek benwerd - want to help out and maybe reach more journalists by posting an Indie Event for NYC and POSSEing that to FB?
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benwerd tantek - will definitely do that, but later today. I may have broken my event plugin ... *shifty eyes*
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tantek (somehow it makes more sense to do separate indie events with their own POSSE FB copies for each location)
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tantek wonders if bnvk has gotten indie event posts and RSVP webmention receiving working in Social Igniter...
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aaronpk yeah that's worked well for HWC
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tantek checks logs to see if he missed anything.
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rascul tantek i think you would benefit from znc http://znc.in
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tantek looks for /ZNC
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rascul http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC#Bouncers
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tantek rascul - neat! I wonder how well that works with multiple clients (e.g. laptop, iPod etc.)
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rascul works quite fine
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rascul you can connect as many clients as you want to it
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rascul at any given time i'll have up to 4 conencted
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rascul can be configured to replay x number of lines of scrollback when your client connects which is pretty nice
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rascul also if you can setup your reverse dns for tantek.com to point to tantek.com, then run znc on tantek.com, you'll be tantek@tantek.com when someone would /whois you
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tantek yes I remember you writing that up!
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tantek I can't setup reverse dns unfortunately on my shared setup
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rascul ahh ok
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bnvk snarfed: have you for a moment considered making Bridgy handle Diaspora activity?
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aaronpk rascul: do you see my reverse dns as mail.pin13.net?
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snarfed bnvk: honestly, no, not for a moment
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aaronpk is diaspora still a thing?
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bnvk hehe
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snarfed bnvk: i'd happily merge a PR that adds it though!
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tantek snarfed, how would you test it?
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bnvk a lot of germans seem to use https://despora.de/stream
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rascul ~aaronpk@mail.pin13.net
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snarfed tantek: unit tests? is that a trick question?
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rascul aaronpk sure do
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tantek bnvk - do you know anyone personally that uses diaspora on their own domain?
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bnvk I'm getting some activity on my manually POSSE post about IWC there
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snarfed tantek: and a test user. i'm guessing you ask because it's hard to set up a test user…?
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bnvk tantek: it's a more a larger commuity site here
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tantek snarfed, was genuinely curious how you'd set up testing a platform that appears to be waning.
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tantek bnvk - community site? like MediaWiki?
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bnvk but independently run and a bit more private than big blue
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snarfed tantek: ah. eh, waning doesn't mattter for manual testing, as long it's runnable at all. for adoption, yes, waning matters :P
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bnvk tantek: not like MediaWiki, but rather a FB replacement
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tantek bnvk so a Diaspora silo then?
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snarfed bnvk: longer answer, it's not a personal itch for me, so i wouldn't implement it myself, but i'd be happy to work with you or anyone else who wants to do it!
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bnvk i'm very hesitant to refer to that as a silo
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bnvk snarfed: cool, well. Perhaps I'll mention it as a task to add webmention / bridgy support if any hackers come here
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snarfed bnvk: sure! feel free to file a github issue for it as a feature request. there are similar issues for flickr, linkedin, app.net
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bnvk awesome
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rascul i feel like there's too many stubs on the wiki
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rascul is there a way to see all the sub pages?
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aaronpk rascul: http://indiewebcamp.com/Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:stub
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rascul thanks
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bnvk tantek: here's some decent stats about current Disapora pods in use http://podupti.me/ notice the exceptionally high amount of pods in DE
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rascul 459 pages are stubs!
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aaronpk wowie
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ben_thatmustbeme still no change in google hangouts supporting gtalk: urls
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ben_thatmustbeme grr
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ben_thatmustbeme just ripped apart the latest apk
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bnvk Diaspora interface has really come along, it's quite fully featured https://brennannovak.com/uploads/snapper/Despora_Stream_View.png
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bnvk facepile, POSSE ability
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tantek bnvk - nice! good to see that there's folks iterating on it
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bnvk yah
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rascul bnvk now i kind of want to see the supposed absolutely gorgeous design of the uterus
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tantek bnvk - and especially good of you to reach out to build a bridge between communities.
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bnvk ideally we can convince someone in their community to add webmention support
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tantek rascul++ :)
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Loqi rascul has 7 karma
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tantek bnvk - that screenshot is quite a nice clean look
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tantek is that your home page?
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tantek (on despora)
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bnvk tantek: yah, that's the home page
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bnvk Here's a grab of their profile view https://brennannovak.com/uploads/snapper/Despora_Profile_View.png
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tantek.com created /Despora (+419) "stub with dfn, link, screenshots" (view diff)
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aaronpk what is despora?
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Loqi Despora.de is a Diaspora installation used as a community site by a lot of Germans http://indiewebcamp.com/Despora
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aaronpk ooh
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bnvk aaronpk: :)
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aaronpk how come I can't sign in using an existing identity?
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bnvk dunno, maybe no one in their community is aware of the genius of IndieAuth...
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aaronpk or openid... or persona...
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bnvk hehe
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tantek.com edited /Diaspora (+185) "note statistics, see also Despora" (view diff)
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bnvk nice
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kylewm I so wanted pump.io to federate with indieweb too
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kylewm doesn't seem like that's going to happen
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tantek thanks for the links and info bnvk - tried to capture it on the IWC wiki accordingly
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bnvk I think between Pump, Disapora, POSSE, and WebMention- WE ARE SO CLOSE
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tantek kylewm - are there posts on pump.io sites with posts you want to comment on?
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kylewm (based on https://github.com/e14n/pump.io/pull/871)
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kylewm tantek: yes! i follow mlinksva and evan, among others there
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tantek kylewm - perhaps add their home pages to /pump.io ?
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rascul.io edited /dokku (+947) "describe dokku with some possible deployment options and provide a place for indieweb examples as they become known" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /code (-6) "/* Christian Weiske */" (view diff)
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rascul does /Disqus still need to be a stub?
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aaronpk do you feel like it accurately represents Disqus?
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gRegor` Whoa, cweiske delivers application/xhtml+xml. Hardcore.
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rascul i don't know enough about disqus to determine that, i was just clicking on random stub pages and disqus is the longest stub i've found so far
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gRegor` There's longer stubs, heh
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rascul yeah i know, i can't recall them though and i haven't randomly clicked on them yet :)
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gRegor` The criteria is pretty subjective. I mentioned it in chat a while back and I think the idea was not having "stub" might discourage people from editing.
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aaronpk interesting point
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gRegor` I think it was tantek that said that, but I might be wrong. I might also be paraphrasing poorly. :)
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gRegor` looks in logs
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rascul i guess i can see it from that view
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gRegor` I view it primarily as a way to invite people to edit the page, which is why I added the "expanding it" link directly to it.
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tantek gRegor`: makes sense
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tantek what is a stub?
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Loqi A stub is an article that is brand new or considered incomplete by the authors/contributors, based on opinion or arbitrary measure http://indiewebcamp.com/stub
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tantek no need to guess/paraphrase ;)
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rascul i can't explain why, i guess i just don't like seeing stub pages all over the place
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gRegor` Well I was looking for the convo that led to that update of /stub
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gRegor` That's how I felt initially, too, rascul
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gRegor` I think I was wanting to categorize them more like "this page has one sentence" or "this is a pretty complete page"
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gRegor` But I don't think there's been problems around that, really
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gRegor` Here: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-05-05#t1399328941 rascul
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rascul reads
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gregorlove.com edited /stub (+88) "+ Discussion link" (view diff)
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rascul i wonder if there's any cases to show that the stub leads to more people editting the page
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gRegor` It came up because I made the mistake of copying wikipedia templates for various types of stubs.
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rascul # 15:30 <tantek> aaronpk - I'm not sure we have a good idea of *when* an article is "filled out"
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rascul that seems accurate to me
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gRegor` Yeah
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tantek gRegor`: better to be lazy and only copy/create stubs when needed.
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rascul although on pages where i'm the primary editor, i'll happily remove stub when i feel it's "filled out"
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gRegor` Any suggestions for progress indicators, rascul?
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tantek rascul, gRegor` capture "progress" as a question on /stub at least
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rascul the talk page could be useful, but i haven't seen it used yet
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tantek in practice I don't see a reason for talk pages
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tantek I'd rather actually capture multiple points of view on the pages themselves
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gRegor` I used one once, rascul. Got no response :)
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rascul i mean useful just to keep track of page progress indicators to remove stub
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gRegor` But I think it was captured later in IRC
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gRegor` Yeah, wikipedia does that. Projects track page progress on the talk pages, using different criteria
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rascul with irc, the talk page doesn't seem very useful though for most cases
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gRegor` Agreed
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rascul but for tracking page progress, it seems to fit i think
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rascul can't really think up any other case where we could make better use of it than we could with irc
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rascul if a page has something in its talk page, is there an indication of that anywhere without actually viewing the talk page?
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tantek rascul - there isn't, hence the problem. it's too out of the way. like invisible metadata
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rascul indeed
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@bennettscience Feeling super accomplished right now. Finally got @owncloud running on my #raspi #ownyourdata https://twitter.com/bennettscience/status/480076412280258560/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/480076412280258560)
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aaronpk that just seems like a terrible idea :P at least use something a little more powerful!
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KartikPrabhu people seem to be doing things just for coolness-factor under the name of #ownyourdata
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snarfed.org edited /Disqus (+156) "/* IndieWeb Experience */ Bridgy usage" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /disqus (+20) "redirect" (view diff)
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aaronpk so this Clef thing is pretty cool, but is basically an identity silo. Would anyone be interested in seeing it as a login option on indieauth.com? https://getclef.com/
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snarfed hmm. they claim you still get 2-factor with this
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snarfed …but i'm not convinced. if this replaces your password with your phone, and you use an app or text msg as the 2nd factor (like most people), someone with your phone has both parts
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snarfed …so it collapses to 1 factor
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snarfed stops grumbling
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tantek snarfed++ on both counts :)
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Loqi snarfed has 30 karma
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tantek snarfed, now that major phone carriers all have web UIs to access SMS/txt messages, phones are no longer a "2nd factor"
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tantek where by "2nd factor" it means something other than web
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snarfed eh, factors dont have to be different medium
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snarfed two distinct passwords is technically 2 factor (though not recommended)
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snarfed the big security boost is when you use two of (something you know, something you have, something you are) instead of just one
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snarfed more to your point, it's an argument for using an auth app instead of text msg as the common 2nd factor
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aaronpk agreed. people often call things "two-factor auth" when really they just mean you can use your phone to sign in
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GWG aaronpk: How would indieauth use your phone?
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aaronpk please note that nothing on indieauth.com is two-factor
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aaronpk you can sign in from your phone by entering a challenge code sent to your SMS number, or by installing the google authenticator app and entering a code
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aaronpk but in both cases this is just one factor, just happens that it could be your phone
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snarfed aaronpk: it's a tangent, but you could easily add 2 factor to indieauth.com by letting people opt into requiring two auth providers per login
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aaronpk yes, i've been thinking about that
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aaronpk it would need to be built into the protocol, not just the service
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aaronpk from what I can tell, nobody has explored two-factor auth in OAuth or OpenID Connect
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GWG How about the FreeOTP app?
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aaronpk yea that works
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aaronpk it's just the TOTP algorithm
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GWG I switched after Google closed-sources Authenticator.
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aaronpk I say google authenticator because that's what people recognize. usually nobody knows wtf i'm talking about if I say "use your TOTP app..."
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snarfed :P
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snarfed we all called it OTP inside google when we first 2-factored our internal logins, years before open sourcing the app
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snarfed not TOTP though. meh.
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snarfed started to type more details, then stopped. :P
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aaronpk oh? do tell!
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GWG aaronpk: I don't see anything about SMS/OTP in the indieauth site. Am I missing it?
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aaronpk yeah it's kind of hidden
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aaronpk i'm collecting notes here until I figure out how best to put them onto indieauth.com http://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth.com
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GWG I can use a Pebble?
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GWG I'm in
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aaronpk yup I use it all the time!
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aaronpk although I haven't updated my pebble to 2.0 yet so I don't know which pebble-authenticator fork is best for 2.0
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GWG aaronpk: I'm not going to use the Pebble. I just like the geekiness of it
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GWG aaronpk: Only because the battery life hasn't been reliable lately.
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GWG I'm wondering if there is a secure way for the phone to keep the generator as well
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bnvk you guys, and girls, I think IWC Berlin might set a record for youngest attendee
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@skry RT @brennannovak: Interested in a better & more open web? Come learn & hack at #IndieWeb Camp 2014 in Berlin @agoracollective http://t.co/J… (twitter.com/_/status/480102938858102785)
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KartikPrabhu bnvk: how young?
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bnvk KartikPrabhu: I'll post a picture / video day of ;)
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KartikPrabhu ok :D
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KartikPrabhu bnvk: why does the Berlin Guest List have 5 attendees but only 2 actual people listed?
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bnvk KartikPrabhu: because I'm waiting to get headshot from the two ppl I am mentoring
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KartikPrabhu aah ok cool
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bnvk and I'm counting a person is problem not going to get a site up to IndieMark
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bnvk but I'll nudge him
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aaronpk hmm someone tried signing in using my app.net account
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aaronpk feature request for indieauth.com: show me a list of successful and unsuccessful login attempts for my account
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aaronpk feel free to add notes: https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/issues/56
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aaronparecki.com edited /IndieAuth (+173) "/* Talks */ add IIW talk" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (+1114) "/* Colin Tedford */ Started "IndieMark", "Current setup & practices", & "TODO" sections" (view diff)
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Loqi shortened intro
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Loqi more wiki links.
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@withknown Gathering content in a space you control: doubling down on #indieweb & journalism. http://werd.io/2014/gathering-content-in-a-space-you-control-doubling-down-on (twitter.com/_/status/480110624467189760)
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aaronparecki.com edited /IndieAuth (-29) "/* See Also */ remove link to (outdated) spec" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] http://stream.withknown.com/2014/heres-some-links-that-piqued-our-interest-this-week-knowledgefriday linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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GWG !tell pfefferle Saw the pull request, had actually fixed those and forgot to push.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG !tell pfefferle Been working on http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress/Development
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk so... no interest in Clef as an auth mechanism then?
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aaronpk maybe hold off on it until proper 2fa is part of indieauth?
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snarfed yeah, or hold off until there's interest
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snarfed are you looking for something to work on? :P
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aaronpk well I still have to fix up proper authorization_endpoint handling :)
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aaronpk it just makes for a cool demo
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snarfed ahhh true
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aaronpk it is kind of strange that SMS can no longer be guaranteed to be a second factor for 2fa
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bnvk aaronpk: how is PGP integration coming?
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aaronpk bnvk: done!
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aaronpk try it out! https://indieauth.com/gpg
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aaronpk super fast and actually doesn't require any mouse clicks if you have a keyboard shortcut for signing the selected text :)
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bnvk whoa, checking
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bnvk aaronpk: https://indieauth.com/auth/verify_gpg.json 500'd for me
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aaronpk hm it was supposed to trap that error. try it again, I think you probably copied partial text from the challenge text
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bnvk yep, I think I had the wrong thing selected in my clipboard
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aaronpk that's odd, there's definitely a begin/rescue block there
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bnvk saweeet
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bnvk worked really awesome
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bnvk heck yah!
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aaronpk nice!
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aaronpk the second time it'll be even faster!
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bnvk wait, so next time through it shouldn't ask for the signing step right?
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aaronpk it'll still ask you to sign, but the challenge will be pre-loaded
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aaronpk so you won't have to wait a second on the "loading..." part
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bnvk ah yah, i see
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bnvk very cool, was just showing it to team dudes, and our security advisor Dymaxion who's here
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bnvk everyone liked it :)
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aaronpk nice!
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@kaeff RT @MailpileTeam: In Berlin? Come learn about the #IndieWeb and Mailpile on June 28th http://bnvk.me/B2y (twitter.com/_/status/480124148979871745)
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aaronpk this dymaxion? http://dymaxion.org/
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bnvk aaronpk: ya
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aaronpk cool! say hi from me!
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bnvk done
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bnvk she says hi back, said she met you ages ago
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aaronpk yep! looong ago, don't even remmeber where!
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aaronpk well that's odd, I can't reproduce the error you got bnvk
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aaronpk do you happen to know what you signed?
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bnvk hrm
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bnvk I believe I signed the URL of the page
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aaronpk i signed some junk text and it properly caught the error and told me
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bnvk as I think in CMD + TAB I accidentally had the URL bar selected
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bnvk instead of the key blobl
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bnvk blob
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aaronpk ok yeah now I get that error
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aaronpk but only on the server :(
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aaronpk not my dev version
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aaronpk ok I think I fixed it
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aaronpk thanks! that is still super weird that my first attempt at catching that error didn't work
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bear signs in using gpg o/
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aaronpk yay!
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Loqi giggles
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bear once I realized you wanted ascii-armored text it was easy
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aaronpk doesn't even know what that means
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bear a signature doesn't have to start end with the ---- markers
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bear that's ascii armored
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aaronpk huh
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bear i.e. all printable ascii chars
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aaronpk i'm just passing it into the gpgme library to verify the signature
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aaronpk no idea what that accepts
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bear a "normal" signature is a binary output
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aaronpk oh yeah..that doesn't seem like it would work very well over http :)
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bear :)
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gRegor` POST 0110100...
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gRegor` :)
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aaronpk bret: want to help me host an indieweb hack day during pdxdevweek? https://github.com/cascadiajs/pdx.devweek.org
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aaronpk bear: know of a good ios library for gpg signing?
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@tajukahe RT @brennannovak: Interested in a better & more open web? Come learn & hack at #IndieWeb Camp 2014 in Berlin @agoracollective http://t.co/J… (twitter.com/_/status/480136844831502336)