#indiewebcamp 2014-06-19

2014-06-19 UTC
KartikPrabhu, caseorganic, nloadholtes, tantek and grantmacken joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu for some reason FF is getting rid of the ## in fragmentions from this list : http://indiewebcamp.com/fragmention#What_if_the_linked-to_text_occurs_more_than_once.3F
#
KartikPrabhu it converts the ##was+still to #was+still which does not trigger the fragmention code
#
KartikPrabhu cc: KevinMarks
#
tantek !tell rascul looks great I think some of that material would work better on the /code page but we can split that up as necessary.
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
tantek greetings from Minneapolis!
#
snarfed greetings!
#
KartikPrabhu greetings!
lukebrooker_ joined the channel
#
tantek four of us here in MPLS
#
tantek KartikPrabhu: did you reach out to Mari for Chicago?
#
KartikPrabhu tantek: I did tweet at her that one time after she attended the SF one, but I got no response
#
KartikPrabhu I didn't want to risk being rude :)
#
psyhigh.com edited /events/2014-06-18-homebrew-website-club (+37) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
#
KartikPrabhu tantek: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/HWC-Chi-huertas evidence ;)
#
rascul tantek is the stub still necessary?
#
Loqi rascul: tantek left you a message 17 minutes ago: looks great I think some of that material would work better on the /code page but we can split that up as necessary.
caseorganic joined the channel
#
rascul also you're probably right about some of that stuff going to /code
#
KartikPrabhu alrighty! HWC-Chicago out...
#
aaronpk 3 of us in PDX!
dybskiy joined the channel
#
kylewm hi HWC, checking in from Denver Airport :)
#
tantek we're up to 6 here in MPLS
#
bret allo
#
snarfed 6! solid for a new venue
#
snarfed hi kylewm!
#
tantek doing intros
#
tantek Kurt Frelick - web developer
#
tantek does not have his own website
#
tantek his band has a website
#
tantek made by a fan, but wants to take it back
#
aaronpk we're at https://talky.io/hwc if you can join!
#
tantek integrate it with Google Calendar
#
tantek bring together images and posts
#
tantek from Instagram
#
tantek Ben - grabara.com
#
tantek nothing there - just wanted to own it
#
tantek for an easy email address
#
tantek Annette - have two websites
#
tantek annettediana.com and annettedianadesign.com - both are down at the moment
#
tantek cobbler's children problem
#
tantek the only time she works on her website is when she is looking for a job
#
tantek would like to use it more for photo blogging
#
tantek does not have anything to say
#
tantek I don't tweet at all
#
tantek instagram like crazy thought
#
tantek though*
#
tantek instagram is too small - would like the pictures that she takes to be bigger
#
tantek annettedianadesign is just her portfolio
#
tantek gets frustrated with WordPress
#
tantek does not do enough dev to be able to figure out how to restyle it
#
tantek frustrated with comment problem
#
tantek too many robots commenting on all pages of her portfolio
#
tantek feels overwhelmed because not a developer
#
tantek just wants to make things that are beautiful
#
tantek Scott Parker - tech writer
#
tantek have been studying HTML5 and CSS3 for a few months
#
tantek trying to get back into it
#
tantek haven't had a website since let his University account expire (with resume)
#
tantek likes the idea of the indieweb movement
#
tantek Nicole - nicoletollefson.com - nothing there right now
#
tantek would like to have blog posts there
#
tantek music, blogging
#
tantek ...
#
tantek (discussions)
#
tantek too high a barrier to entry - makes me want to give up
caseorganic and tantek joined the channel
#
snarfed we're in on talky
#
bret hello everyone
#
snarfed pdx are you unmuted?
#
snarfed if so it's our speakers. just checking
#
aaronpk i think we're unmuted
#
snarfed cool.
#
aaronpk yep that looks right
indie-visitor joined the channel
#
Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
brainTrain joined the channel
#
aaronpk snarfed: you'l have to mute your mic to cut the feedback
#
aaronpk feedback is a tough problem :(
#
snarfed yup. done
#
aaronpk cool thx
#
tantek who is the empty screen?
#
aaronpk i think it was SF befor ethey reconnected
#
snarfed maybe sf's old session. i'll see if i can kill it
#
aaronpk should we do intros?
#
tantek awesome! welcome Jason!
#
snarfed Ryan Barrett: https://snarfed.org/
#
snarfed Walter Yu: http://walteryu.com
#
snarfed Brian: http://brainnewstuff.com/
#
snarfed lots of dot coms
#
kylewm brainTrain: no longer atoddswithclarity . com?
#
aaronpk hard to do sync audio today, so maybe split into smaller discussions on the sooner side?
#
snarfed probably yes
#
brainTrain no I've got that too
#
brainTrain that was kinda my indie web proof of concept
#
brainTrain brainnewstuff is where I've been keeping notes on new stuff I've learned, mostly sysadmin type stuff right now
#
brainTrain and my first project i mentioned here was boozybrowser.com :p so you know, all over the place
#
kylewm nice :)
#
kylewm no one can accuse you of being a monoculture
#
tantek we're muted here in MPLS
#
snarfed we're all muted, kind of following aaronpk's suggestion to go local sooner because of all the feedback
#
snarfed happy to follow your lead if you want to do something different, tantek!
#
brainTrain haha yeah, all hosted on either linode or digital ocean too, so I've got (almost) full control
KevinMarks and scor joined the channel
#
KevinMarks evening all
#
rascul hi KevinMarks
#
tantek we're following aaronpk's suggestion too
#
aaronpk I'm demonstrating my prototype of PGP login on IndieAuth.com
indie-visitor_ joined the channel
#
tantek we're talking next steps for MPLS - who could organize it in 2 weeks
#
aaronpk for next weekend?
#
tantek for HWC
scor joined the channel
#
aaronpk ah
#
aaronpk easier :)
#
indie-visitor_ hey portland! i am at the elevator! (psyhigh)
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
aaronpk indie-visitor_: coming!
caseorganic, indie-visitor_ and gRegor` joined the channel
#
tantek we're signing off here in MPLS
#
tantek just took our group photo - if you couldn't tell ;)
#
KevinMarks we thought you were about to cheer
#
snarfed we saw!
#
snarfed night MPLS!
lukebrooker and scor joined the channel
#
kylewm high barrier to entry comment from MPLS tugs at my heart strings.
#
aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-06-18-homebrew-website-club (+116) "/* RSVP */ add minneapolis RSVPs" (view diff)
#
kylewm but I also think that's a little bit of an incorrect perception...if you can stick HTML on a server, you can get most of the benefit
#
aaronpk that isa high barrier for some tho
#
KevinMarks yes, need to smooth that
#
kylewm hmmm, it's much lower than writing code
#
aaronpk yes, but higher than signing up for twitter
#
KevinMarks or wordpress
#
kylewm well I do think making it that easy is a noble goal
#
kylewm but I don't think it necessarily has to be that easy for lots of people to be into it
#
kylewm right now there's a cost associated with owning your stuff
#
kylewm think that's ok
#
rascul digitalocean has a few one click apps that can make getting a server up and running easier https://www.digitalocean.com/features/one-click-apps/
#
gRegor` This ## issue in Firefox is baffling, KartikPrabhu
#
rascul also linode has stackscripts https://www.linode.com/stackscripts
#
kylewm gRegor`, KartikPrabhu, firefox removes the second # on a redirect, is that the issue?
#
gRegor` It's not an invalid part of the URL, right? So I have no idea why it would arbitrarily drop it.
#
KartikPrabhu gregor`: yeah I have no idea why!? kylewm: yes!
#
kylewm I think it is technically invalid
#
kylewm tantek said that was a good thing because it meant no one was using it yet
#
rascul there's a ## issue in firefox?
#
gRegor` Yes, Open this URL in Firefox: http://kartikprabhu.com/static/demo/fragmention.html##was+still After the redirect, only one hash remains in the URL
#
gRegor` And the fragment is not highlighted.
#
gRegor` (The redirect is from http to https)
#
KartikPrabhu note works fine in Chrome
#
rascul ahh i see
#
gRegor` KartikPrabhu: http://kartikprabhu.com/static/demo/fragmention.html###was+still works though! :)
#
KartikPrabhu wth!
#
gRegor` Because it only drops one
#
KartikPrabhu that makes absolutlely no sense
#
gRegor` Welcome to the internets
#
KartikPrabhu <sigh> should this be noted in /fragmention ?
#
gRegor` kylewm: Interesting. Have a pointer on why it's invalid?
#
kylewm gRegor`, no and I might be totally misremembering
#
gRegor` http://kartikprabhu.com/static/demo/fragmention.html#%23was+still also works
#
KevinMarks yes, do note it there
#
KartikPrabhu judas priest
#
kylewm rascul: have you tried digitalocean dropplets much? is it basically 0 sys admin stuff?
#
gRegor` Hahaha
#
gRegor` the fragmention js definitely doesn't adjust the document.location, right?
#
gRegor` Just to rule out something odd there.
vanderwal joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu gregor`: no, it does not touch that
#
KartikPrabhu it only searches and adds attributes to DOM elements
#
rascul kylewm i've not used the one click apps
#
gRegor` Ok. I figured, but worth a shot.
#
kylewm gRegor`, the fragment thing is here http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-3.5 ... the grammar is spread out all over the doc, but pchar excludes gen-delims which includes #
#
KevinMarks yep, that is noted in the page
#
KevinMarks http://indiewebcamp.com/fragmention#Double-hashes_in_the_wild
#
gRegor` ok
#
gRegor` So it sounds like Chrome (and maybe others) are ignoring that, kylewm. Interesting.
#
KartikPrabhu gregor`: but FF is ignoring the ###
#
gRegor` Oh https, yes.
#
gRegor` On http it "works" because it drops the first one on redirect
#
KartikPrabhu so even FF is not really following the document, it only drops the first # on redirect for some reason.
#
gRegor` Oh, yeah
#
gRegor` ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
#
KartikPrabhu yup that...
#
KartikPrabhu will make note of those on the fragmention page
#
aaronpk long discussion of alternatives to DNS in PDX
#
bret !tell bnvk Are you still using Social Igniter?
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
#
gRegor` Was it decided not to use hashbangs because they're sometimes used in navigation?
#
KevinMarks it was me being arbitrary, and then it stuck
#
kartikprabhu.com edited /fragmention (+548) "updated demo links to https, and added Firefox redirection funkiness" (view diff)
#
KevinMarks I still think that a single # works but people didn't pick up on that
#
KevinMarks http://g.kevinmarks.com/poemfragmentions.html##just+use+#
#
KartikPrabhu maybe the JS could look for id and if id is not found look for string
#
KevinMarks oops, linked to my google mirrot
#
aaronpk I actually think single # doesn't work
#
brainTrain http://youtu.be/GSGKEy8vHqg?t=2m39s
#
brainTrain ^ some cool music making software for nerds who code
#
aaronpk example: a nav menu with <a href="#item">item</a> with <h1 id="item">item</h1> down below
#
aaronpk example.com/#item would jump to the nav menu
#
KartikPrabhu aaronpk: first look for id and if not found look for the string
#
KevinMarks however we are redefining + too "just+use" is a valid ID "just use" isn't
#
KevinMarks so
#
snarfed SF is signing off of talky. 'night PDX! thanks for helping organize!
#
GWG DId I miss all the HWC fun?
#
KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: oh yeah that would be a problem with single # if people used + in the ids
#
KevinMarks single # works if you use more than one word
#
gRegor` Afraid so, GWG
#
KevinMarks but we're still chatting
#
gRegor` But the fun continues here 24/7
#
KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: won't #some+word match the id="some+word" ?
#
KevinMarks yes
#
KevinMarks so if that ID is there, it wins
#
KartikPrabhu i see
#
KevinMarks btu it is not very likely to be
#
KevinMarks especially with #more+than+two
#
KartikPrabhu agrees
#
KartikPrabhu i usually would write that as id="more-than-two"
#
gRegor` How about an emoji as the fragmention delimiter? :)
caseorganic joined the channel
#
KevinMarks so my to-do was to write a crawler for IDs and see what is in use
#
gRegor` KevinMarks: What's this about a google mirror of your content?
#
aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-06-18-homebrew-website-club (+481) "/* Notes */ some notes from PDX" (view diff)
#
aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-06-18-homebrew-website-club (+63) "/* Notes */" (view diff)
#
gRegor` Are you sending the google bot to that subdomain somehow or?
#
KevinMarks I was trying out hosting on google cloud, which is g.kevinmarks.com and amazon which is a.kevinmarks.com
#
KevinMarks no, just mirroring
#
gRegor` Ahh, gotcha
#
KevinMarks but I haven't got it automated yet
#
KevinMarks and amazon was toooo annoying
scor, caseorganic and snarfed joined the channel
#
jasonwoj.com created /User:Jasonwoj.com (+53) "Created page with "<a href="http://jasonwoj.com">Jason Wojciechowski</a>"" (view diff)
#
jasonwoj.com edited /events/2014-06-18-homebrew-website-club (+44) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
#
aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-06-18-homebrew-website-club (+157) "/* Notes */" (view diff)
snarfed and wolftune joined the channel
#
bret who is tallpaul
#
Loqi Paul Munday is a Python developer from Portland Oregon
#
Loqi in a former life he was a dancer and performance artist in the UK http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Paulmunday.net
#
bret who is bret?
#
Loqi http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Bret.io
#
david.shanske.com edited /WordPress/Development (-4) "/* Working On */" (view diff)
#
aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-06-18-homebrew-website-club (+151) "/* Notes */" (view diff)
caseorganic and mnot joined the channel
#
mnot Hi - anybody familiar with the indieauth openid handler here?
#
KartikPrabhu mnot: as in? what do you want to do?
#
aaronpk mnot: I might be able to help you
#
mnot I'm having trouble with it, getting "There was an SSL error connecting to https://www.mnot.net/"
#
mnot I suspect this is because my site requires TLS SNI, and a somewhat restricted set of cyphersuites (as per bettercrypto.org).
#
aaronpk mnot: let me check ... TLS should be fine, my site uses it
#
mnot ... and I was wondering what the implementation language was (as it's easier to fix that in some languages)
#
KartikPrabhu mine uses TLS SNI too i think
#
mnot ah, cool
#
mnot der, actually I can check my logs...
#
aaronpk hm I'm actually seeing this in the logs: SSL ERROR: hostname does not match the server certificate
#
mnot aha, how interesting
#
aaronpk which doesn't make a lot of sense...
#
mnot it appears to be sending SNI
#
aaronpk you can see that?
#
mnot (assuming that it's 173.230.155.197
#
mnot not sending a User-Agent)
#
mnot yeah, I log SNI and the Host header separately
#
aaronpk nice
#
aaronpk ooh I should send a user agent
#
mnot that would be friendly :)
#
aaronpk actually I thought it was sending the mac safari user agent
#
mnot is it that IP address?
#
mnot on linode
#
aaronpk yeah that's the IP
#
mnot ok
#
mnot hmm. So it thinks there's a cert error. I've checked my TLS setup with the regular things (e.g., Qualsys) and they're happy
#
aaronpk brb
#
aaronpk back
#
aaronpk ooh
#
aaronpk wtf I don't get it
#
mnot ?
#
aaronpk I restarted the service and now it works fine :/
#
mnot heh
#
mnot fun
#
mnot turn it off and back on again
#
aaronpk yeah :-/
#
aaronpk that's a pretty dissatisfying solution
#
mnot maybe a cert cache got corrupted or something
#
mnot trying...
#
aaronpk yeah that must be it
caseorganic joined the channel
#
mnot works like a charm
#
mnot *shrug*
#
mnot thanks!
#
aaronpk yup!
#
@mnot Loving IndieAuth: https://indieauth.com (twitter.com/_/status/479470228385304576)
#
KartikPrabhu haha! aaronpk: to quote gregor` from earlier ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ quite a bit of that going on today
#
gRegor` BTW, emojicons.com for all your text emoji needs.
#
KartikPrabhu gregor`: that page hurt my eyes a bit! seeing red+black residual images now
#
gRegor` Haha
#
KartikPrabhu goes back to his *top secret* IWC project
benward, jacus, jgee, Garbee, tommorris, rknLA and ngoldman joined the channel
#
aaronpk ooo you have a top secret project?
#
aaronpk i kind of spilled the beans on mine tonight :)
#
GWG What is it?
#
KartikPrabhu I will spill the beans soon enough as I'd need a bunch of people who'll try to break it :)
#
aaronpk i already spilled them, there are no beans left to spill!
#
KartikPrabhu just putting the base project together... though it is a busy week and me promises nothing ;)
#
@indiewebcamp RT @mnot: Loving IndieAuth: https://indieauth.com (twitter.com/_/status/479476468406173698)
#
KartikPrabhu busy week = finishing 1 physics and 1 indieweb thing and starting another physics thing... so yeah, not promising anything for sure
#
KartikPrabhu GWG: patience :)
#
GWG KartikPrabhu: Have you developed time travel?
#
KartikPrabhu GWG: if i had, I wouldn't have a busy week would I? :P
#
GWG KartikPrabhu: Always cover your bases, right?
#
KartikPrabhu sadly time-travel is quite impossible... but that is for another blogpost that has been a long time coming
#
aaronpk KartikPrabhu: that's just what the time travelers want you to believe
#
KartikPrabhu aaronpk: 'I Held A Party For Time-Travellers... But None Came' - Stephen Hawking :P
#
GWG KartikPrabhu: It's fun in fiction though
#
KartikPrabhu ref: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2168178/Stephen-Hawking-held-party-time-travellers--turned-.html
#
KartikPrabhu GWG: it is! I recommend the movie Primer for it. beware it will get your mind in a twist
#
KartikPrabhu for proof, look at the Primer timeline here: http://xkcd.com/657/large/ :D
#
GWG KartikPrabhu: Saving it for IWC East?
#
KartikPrabhu GWG: saving it as my thing to show-off or something, but I will post it here before so people can test/break it. I will let you know
caseorganic joined the channel
#
gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com (+56) "/* My site */" (view diff)
fmarier joined the channel
#
@mahmoudimus RT @mnot: Loving IndieAuth: https://indieauth.com (twitter.com/_/status/479482213138841600)
edge226 joined the channel
#
gregorlove.com created /User:Gregorlove.com/notes (+555) "Posting interface" (view diff)
#
gregorlove.com uploaded /File:gregorlove-add-note-2014-06-18.png "Work-in-progress for my add note interface."
caseorganic joined the channel
#
gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/notes (+41) "/* Posting interface */" (view diff)
#
gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/notes (+301) "/* Posting interface */ explanation, current screenshot" (view diff)
#
gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/notes (+58) "/* Posting interface */" (view diff)
#
gregorlove.com edited /events/2014-06-18-homebrew-website-club (+165) "/* Notes */ Chicago notes" (view diff)
wolftune and caseorganic joined the channel
#
gRegor` So Clef looks pretty interesting https://getclef.com/
#
gRegor` Demoed at Portland HWC tonight
lukebrooker joined the channel
#
aaronpk i may add it as a provider for indieauth.com
#
aaronpk it's certainly clever
snarfed joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu is out for the night! bonne nuit!
#
KartikPrabhu Loqi: parlez vous Francais?
#
KartikPrabhu Non? cava.
dybskiy, caseorganic and brainTrain joined the channel
#
snarfed.org edited /events/2014-06-18-homebrew-website-club (+690) "/* Notes */ SF" (view diff)
#
aaronpk snarfed: nice! thanks!
#
aaronpk i really need to do a nice writeup of my QS data I publish on my site
#
@minimalistway “Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere” http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE تعجبني هذه الفكرة، أنشر في موقعك ووزع المحتويات في مواقع أخرى (twitter.com/_/status/479498968200523776)
#
snarfed aaronpk: true! we mentioned you have a really high powered setup, but it's hand rolled and not quite accessible to the average person
eschnou, edge226, phil80, caseorganic, ozatomic, glennjones, michel_v_, GWG, realzies, etymancer, friedcell, jsilvestre, KevinMarks and krendil joined the channel
#
@icing RT @mnot: Loving IndieAuth: https://indieauth.com (twitter.com/_/status/479538648787206144)
#
@adthierry “@Indian_Stinson: What would happen if all user data gets deleted? #fb #facebook” #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/479546008574394368)
Sebastien-L and BjornW joined the channel
#
@Asnidar67337308 RT @Indie_Auth: Just added last.fm as a supported provider for http://t.co/i4zSjDWwVJ! (twitter.com/_/status/479549874325573632)
KevinMarks, adactio and barnabywalters joined the channel
#
Loqi barnabywalters: GWG left you a message 11 hours, 36 minutes ago: I have the translation you asked for.
#
barnabywalters GWG: oh wow thanks, that was fast!
ab9, dybskiy, ngoldman and scor joined the channel
#
colintedford.com created /User:Colintedford.com (+999) "Post-signup introduction." (view diff)
scor, dybskiy, Sebastien-L, friedcell, ttepasse, phil80, phil80_, pbeaulieu, LauraJ, GWG and caseorganic joined the channel
#
tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:hwc-2014-169-msp.jpg]]""
#
tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:hwc-2014-155-nyc.jpg]]""
caseorganic, chloeweil, scor, dybskiy, dybskiy_, chrissaad, adactio and glennjones joined the channel
#
david.shanske.com edited /WordPress/Development (+636) "/* Filter Brainstorm */" (view diff)
#
GWG !tell pfefferle Put some notes on the Development page about filter placement. Not sure if you want to add anything
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
tantek.com edited /events/2014-06-04-homebrew-website-club (+57) "/* Photos */ NYC!" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /events/2014-06-18-homebrew-website-club (+88) "/* Photos */ Minneapolis!" (view diff)
caseorganic joined the channel
#
GWG And now...it's another episode of Where in the World is Tantek.
vanderwal and chloeweil_ joined the channel
#
@gp3dr0 indieauth uses the link relation "me" as new way of signing in on the web, check the instructions https://indieauth.com/setup (twitter.com/_/status/479622989475217409)
caseorganic joined the channel
#
jonnybarnes indieweb.wiki is an available domain
#
jonnybarnes I don't know why I'm tempted to buy it
#
@ultrazool RT @gp3dr0: indieauth uses the link relation "me" as new way of signing in on the web, check the instructions https://indieauth.com/setup (twitter.com/_/status/479628722723880960)
dybskiy joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /webactions (+1116) "/* Drop Social Buttons */ Adblock Plus blocking FYI, and how to re-enable" (view diff)
Sebastien-L and pbeaulieu joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /events/2014-06-18-homebrew-website-club (+14) "Minneapolis participants, fix names, links" (view diff)
caseorganic and gRegor` joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /events/2014-06-18-homebrew-website-club (+2988) "/* Notes */ add Minneapolis notes" (view diff)
chloeweil_, friedcell and eschnou joined the channel
#
GWG Anyone have any good resources on typography?
#
KartikPrabhu anyone heard of/know what this is supposed to be: http://dansinker.com/post/89256288060/opennews-building-new-communities-with-the-new-york ?
#
KartikPrabhu GWG: http://practicaltypography.com/
#
GWG KartikPrabhu: There are hundreds of fonts. I don't know how to pick one
#
KartikPrabhu GWG: there is no simple way to do that
#
GWG KartikPrabhu: I'm just looking for some points of advice to help me narrow it
dybskiy joined the channel
#
jonnybarnes GWG: simplest advice possible: sans-serif font for headers, serif font for body text
#
KartikPrabhu here are some broadstrokes: pick a readable body-type first. decide a good weight and line-height so you like your body text. Then choose a headline type which has enough contrast with the body. Mostly you can use the same font with diff weights for both
#
KartikPrabhu serif/sans-serif actually does not matter
#
GWG Maybe I should just stay with Helvetica
caseorganic joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu GWG: what fonts are you looking at?
#
kylewm.com edited /User:Kylewm.com (+235) "/* other ideas */ browser plugin for webmention endpoint discovery" (view diff)
wolftune joined the channel
#
GWG KartikPrabhu: Since I started with a bootstrap base, that defaults to Helvetica. I have just started looking.
#
GWG KartikPrabhu: Bear in mind I'm looking at a lot of things. I've gone back to the mostly unstyled theme I based my current design on, and I'm backporting a lot of the things I learned and improving it.
#
GWG KartikPrabhu: Theme in this case is Wordpress theme
#
KevinMarks Hmm http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/06/20/business/media/new-york-times-and-washington-post-to-develop-platform-for-readers-contributions.html?_r=0&referrer= how about webmentions
#
KartikPrabhu I use google's webfonts there are quite a few good ones there, and some very bad ones too
#
KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: yes! also see: http://dansinker.com/post/89256288060/opennews-building-new-communities-with-the-new-york
#
gRegor` GWG: http://webtypography.net/
#
@VSChawathe RT @mnot: Loving IndieAuth: https://indieauth.com (twitter.com/_/status/479646229484154882)
#
GWG KartikPrabhu: We'll see what I end up with.
#
gRegor` If it's the WP theme you're working on, I'd say keep it simple.
#
gRegor` If it's just your install of it, then sure, use some web fonts if you want.
#
GWG gRegor`: It is. But I'm actually making it simpler by making it more complex.
#
KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: I wonder what "manage their contributions and online identities" means... seems like they'll end up building another identity silo
#
gRegor` I'm a fan of Georgia for content, personally.
#
KartikPrabhu Georgia is pretty good
#
gRegor` Ahh, so war is peace, GWG? ;)
#
GWG gRegor`: More complex design to make customization simpler?
#
gRegor` (I didn't follow your meaning with making it simpler by making it more complex)
#
gRegor` Like making it a theme option in WP to select fonts?
#
jonnybarnes also practice.typekit.com
#
jonnybarnes thats look decent
#
GWG gRegor`: I thought of that, but not right now. Lower level.
#
gRegor` Oh. Not sure I follow then.
#
GWG gRegor`: Did you catch the discussion I had about filters?
#
gRegor` No
#
KartikPrabhu I wonder if jeremyzilar can get the "NYT Washington Post comments system" people to the IWC
#
gRegor` link?
#
GWG gRegor`: http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress/Development#Filters
#
KartikPrabhu !tell jeremyzilar: any possibility of getting the people behind this: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/06/20/business/media/new-york-times-and-washington-post-to-develop-platform-for-readers-contributions.html interested in the indieweb and indiewebcamp?
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
gRegor` Cool. Not sure the connection to typography though
#
GWG gRegor`: I said I was redoing everything
#
GWG gRegor`: I'm redoing the entire base on which my current theme is based.
#
GWG gRegor`: So that includes adding in filters that match Sempress, if pfefferle and I come to a consensus.
dybskiy, dybskiy_ and bnvk joined the channel
#
Loqi bnvk: bret left you a message on 6/18 at 7:28pm: Are you still using Social Igniter?
#
GWG gRegor`: The thing is making sure the pieces are flexible, which means it can be modded.
#
gRegor` I understand that. It has little to do with font choice, though, as far as I can tell.
#
GWG gRegor`: It is all on my list. Along with font choice, how the header should look, how the footer should look. Etc.
#
bnvk !tell bret: yes, I am on my personal site brennannovak.com as well as my emotional journal app emoo.me
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
GWG gRegor`: You are focusing on one piece of a bigger set of questions. Font is a hard one for me.
#
GWG For header, I've been staring at people's sites.
caseorganic joined the channel
#
GWG For example, gRegor` you have a large image as your footer.
#
gRegor` Since you're making a general-use theme, I think the fonts should be basic. People can always change it in CSS.
#
GWG gRegor`: http://tiny.n9n.us/
#
gRegor` That's just my suggestion, though.
#
GWG Compare that, which is the theme under construction, to my live site.
#
kylewm GWG: are the header fonts on n9n Bootstrap's default?
#
gRegor` Yeah. If you make a theme that has a header image like that (like one of the earlier twenty* themes did), you'll probably want to make it a theme configuration too, so people can easily update it in WP.
#
GWG kylewm: In the header, yes. The Entry Headings aren't. I was experimenting
#
kylewm oh i see, HammersmithOne Regular
#
gRegor` I'd keep it simpler, though. Like on the link Kartik shared earlier, I like the larger serif header and sans-serif body. It's simple. http://dansinker.com/post/89256288060/opennews-building-new-communities-with-the-new-york
#
GWG kylewm: I just dropped t to standard
#
gRegor` The test site heading isn't large enough, relatively, IMO. The "Test Quote" heading is equal size, and bolder
#
GWG gRegor`: The header image I did on the version on my live site. It's coming.
#
GWG Also, I want to offer a logo style header image
#
GWG Where it is a left oriented smaller image with something next to it, which is a common option
#
kylewm.com edited /User:Kylewm.com (-18) "/* personal site */" (view diff)
tantek and tilgovi joined the channel
#
GWG On that note...I'm going to eat lunch
#
tantek good morning #Indiewebcamp!
#
aaronpk good morning!
#
barnabywalters morning
#
gRegor` Morning, tantek
dybskiy joined the channel
#
kylewm how's the midwest treating you tantek?
#
tantek kylewm: pretty good! today is quite rainy however!
caseorganic joined the channel
#
kylewm tantek: bring some of it back here, plz!
#
kylewm I'd like to add a wiki note about flat-file-storage that it Heroku/AppEngine don't support it. is that appropriate /storage#Flat_files ?
#
barnabywalters kylewm: might be more appropriate in a #Criticism section on pages about Heroku/AppEngine
#
kylewm barnabywalters: heh, that's an interesting alternative. seems like if you want to run Ruby or Python but don't want to run your own server/VPS, a PaaS is the only game in town
#
kylewm but e.g., Red Wind won't work on a PaaS because it's file-based
#
barnabywalters kylewm: yup, one of the reasons I basically never use python for personal projects. too bothersome to deploy
#
barnabywalters despite loving it as a language and using it at work
#
rascul what's bothersome about it?
#
barnabywalters rascul: if using a PaaS like heroku: deploys take 10-30 seconds, starting ad-hoc processes take ≈10s, no stable filesystem
#
barnabywalters if not using a PaaS: tonnes of server configuration and setup
#
rascul try using openshift, deploys take much longer!
#
barnabywalters rascul: I would rather avoid that :)
#
kylewm I agree with that. I'm used to Python now but terrified of Rails
j12t joined the channel
#
kylewm agree that it is bothersome to set up
#
rascul local dev servers make it easy though
#
rascul i don't deploy very often the wait isn't a big deal for me
#
tantek barnabywalters: definitely sounds like something to add to /Heroku#Criticism
#
tantek presumably there are webhosts that support python and flat files without any problems
#
rascul although in my case i'll use dokku on my server instead of heroku or openshift
#
rascul tantek there are but heroku's (and similar) implementation doesn't really allow it, not just for python either
#
tantek rascul, hence sounds like a criticism more of Heroku rather than python.
#
rascul indeed
#
tantek rascul, want to start a stub for /dokku ?
#
rascul same applies to openshift, dokku, or anything which has deployment in such a manner
#
tantek is this it? https://github.com/progrium/dokku
#
rascul sure i'll do that today
#
rascul yep
#
tantek I found it referenced on /deployment
#
kylewm.com edited /storage (+203) "/* HTML plus microformats */ added Kevin Marks per conversation about file storage in Heroku" (view diff)
#
rascul i may have put it in /deployment
#
rascul there's also flynn.io which is supposed to be like a super dokku, but i never did get flynn.io figure out
#
kylewm flynn isn't available yet is it?
#
kylewm also dokku is like a couple hundred lines of bash scripts, right?
#
kylewm i like that about it a lot :)
#
rascul 115 lines (97 sloc)
#
rascul flynn has been available for a little bit as preview release
#
tantek I just found out about http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/washington-post-new-york-times-and-mozilla-team-up-for-new-web-site-comment-system/2014/06/19/fa836e90-f71e-11e3-8aa9-dad2ec039789_story.html BTW
#
KevinMarks You can have flat files on heroku, but you need to check them in to git. If you want a file service that isn't per instance you need to use one explicitly
#
tantek still reading up on what it's about and trying to understand the Mozilla connection
#
KevinMarks Is it persona perhaps?
#
kylewm KevinMarks: would you agree that Heroku and p3k or Taproot or Red Wind (as applications that store all their data in the file system) are fundamentally incompatible though?
#
rascul it'll work as expected but data won't persist between deployments unless it's in the git repo
#
KevinMarks Well, you will need to use a file system service. The point of 12 factor is that you should be able to have multiple instances
#
KevinMarks So you need a "file system" that is not just one box.
#
KevinMarks Which is probably a good idea anyway
jacus joined the channel
#
barnabywalters KevinMarks: a good idea for people who get paid to do ops, typically an overcomplication for personal sites though
caseorganic joined the channel
#
barnabywalters except for amateur sysadmins :)
#
kylewm (I'm genuinely trying to understand not argue) amazon s3 is the only thing that comes up when I search for 'heroku file system service'
#
rascul i was about to mention using s3 for storage on heroku
#
rascul or something similar
#
kylewm that doesn't seem like a good fit for an application that needs to load many static resources (markdown files) to render a page
#
tantek KevinMarks - I have no idea. I may ping the Mozilla person mentioned in the article and see what's up - invite them to join us here etc.
#
rascul or implement some git stuff into the app and use a git repo
#
rascul https://github.com/FriendCode/gittle
#
tantek so many different efforts going on at Mozilla sometimes it's hard to keep track or coordinate
#
kylewm yeah, I could imagine doing a git commit/push for every change you make to the filesystem
#
kylewm I think that might be what aaron does
#
rascul i wouldn't keep the content in the same repo as the code though, that could get a bit messy
#
kylewm yeah, mine are separate
#
KevinMarks Not having a backup strategy isn't great either. Related to the database issue.
#
KevinMarks Mine are the same, but I basically have no code.
#
jonnybarnes Does anyone else here use Firefox Aurora?
#
kylewm well, there's having a backup strategy and there's trying to implement ACID on your own :)
#
rascul i plan on implementing git stuff into my site, a new post would be as easy as a git push
#
kylewm "as easy as a git push"
#
rascul i already work a lot with git daily so it's trivial for me
#
kylewm don't use that in your marketing copy ;)
#
rascul hehe
#
barnabywalters jonnybarnes: is that the same as firefox nightly? I use Nightly
#
jonnybarnes barnabywalters: not technically, though aurora is updated every day
#
jonnybarnes mine occasionally freezes up
#
KevinMarks Each new pay is a git push for me too, which is why I don't do notes
#
KevinMarks s/pay/post/
#
Loqi KevinMarks meant to say: Each new post is a git push for me too, which is why I don't do notes
#
barnabywalters I’ve had some intermittent issues with Nightly recently too, it’s not happened for a few days though
#
aaronpk each post is a git push for me too, I just have my server do it in the micropub endpoint :)
#
rascul KevinMarks my notes and articles are pretty much the same thing and i call them notes
#
rascul mentally it's harder for me to write an "article" than a long note with a title :)
chloeweil_ joined the channel
#
KevinMarks Building a micropub endpoint seems a good idea. S3 is such a rats nest though.
#
rascul kylewm could be useful if you don't want to use git http://code.google.com/p/pyfilesystem/
#
KevinMarks That sounds handy. I am thinking that python would be a better tool for me than node after all
#
kylewm aaronpk: re: "each post is a git push for me too". when you post something, does it go to a git repo first, and then aaronparecki.com pulls the update? or is the git push more like a backup of live content?
#
kylewm rascul: thanks for the pointer to that projcet
KevinMarks2, brianloveswords, iangreenleaf, pbeaulieu, snarfed and paulcp joined the channel
#
aaronpk the git push is more like a backup
#
aaronpk but sometimes I write articles on my local copy and git push them to the server
caseorganic joined the channel
#
rascul i keep a local server running to serve up stuff i write locally before i push it
#
tommorris http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/28jggh/whats_the_stupidest_change_you_ever_witnessed_on/ is interesting in a snarking-on-silos way
barnabywalters, KevinMarks, pbeaulieu and caseorganic joined the channel
#
rascul here i note some of the things i'll be doing with my site for anyone who's interested https://rascul.io/notes/future-site-plans
#
snarfed rascul: cool!
#
aaronpk rascul: aewsome!
#
snarfed rascul: interesting that the html title of your pages is the unix timestamp. i'm guessing that's not intentional...?
#
rascul snarfed it is
#
snarfed wow, ok
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
rascul technically i guess those would be notes because they don't have a real title
#
aaronpk maybe a more human-readable date?
#
rascul i just use the timestamp to refer to them
#
rascul aaronpk yeah i'm going to do something more readable in due time, i'll note that on my site plans page!
#
KartikPrabhu there goes Google strong-arming people again: http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/19/youtube-music-video-blocking/
#
rascul eventually my site is still going to be a static site, but it will be dynamically generated with the http api stuff i'll put on top of it
phil80 joined the channel
#
rascul it's gonna be nifty :)
pbeaulieu joined the channel
#
aaronpk has anybody here used Ruby's GPGME gem?
caseorganic joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme i want to say i did once, i don't really remember honestly
#
rascul snarfed oh i misunderstood what you were saying about the title
#
rascul the html title should be "Future Site Plans" but apparently i got that messed up somewhere
#
aaronpk i'm getting an EOFError trying to verify a signature when it runs on the server, but no error when I run it on my laptop with the exact same input :(
#
rascul aaronpk is there a newline at the end before eof? i've seen things choke on a missing newline before
#
rascul (just a guess)
#
bnvk aaronpk: whatcha doing with GPG related things? :)
#
barnabywalters bnvk: MAGIC, I believe
#
bnvk WAT?!?!
#
bnvk are you making it work with IndieAuth somehow?
#
bnvk :)
#
rascul pgp for indieauth i think?
#
bnvk ooo, that sounds uh-mazin
#
barnabywalters passwordless login ftw
tantek joined the channel
#
rascul my key has a 32 char password
#
barnabywalters rascul: optionally passwordless login :)
#
rascul :)
#
rascul http://xkcd.com/1181 is a good one about pgp but it seems to be down for me at the moment
#
bnvk rascul: oh yah
#
jonnybarnes rascul: whats happening with the title your future sites plans note?
#
aaronpk i think I know what xkcd that is without looking
#
bnvk hehe
#
jonnybarnes its currently 1403196355
emmak joined the channel
#
snarfed jonnybarnes: read scrollback :P
#
jonnybarnes ok
#
snarfed GWG: just fyi, bridgy is getting 502 Bad Gateway when sending you some webmentions. e.g. https://www.brid.gy/log?start_time=1403195216&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyRwsSCFJlc3BvbnNlIjl0YWc6ZmFjZWJvb2suY29tLDIwMTM6NjU4Nzk2OTE3NTQyMTg2X2xpa2VkX2J5XzEyNTQzOTM0NTAM
#
snarfed odd because most are going through ok (examples on https://www.brid.gy/facebook/100002356503167)
#
kylewm rascul: your site plans sound great, have a feeling I'm going to be influenced by what you end up doing
#
rascul jonnybarnes snarfed https://rascul.io/notes/future-site-plans##I+just+now+noticed
#
rascul well it says i just now noticed it, but that was almost 20 mins ago!
#
rascul kylewm i've spent much time thinking about how to implement everything and changing/discarding ideas, what is there is pretty much what i've settled on based on what i want vs how to implement it
#
gRegor` I'm getting some jQuery related errors on the wiki. ReferenceError: jQuery is not defined dots.js:78, ReferenceError: $ is not defined indiewebcamp.com:48
#
gRegor` Just a heads up
pbeaulieu joined the channel
#
aaronpk wtf is dots.js
#
snarfed ruh roh
#
gRegor` Core wiki file?
#
rascul ..js
#
gRegor` ChangeGraphs extension
#
aaronpk ahh
#
gRegor` Sorry, copied from Firefox console. Doesn't let me easily copy the entire path.
#
gRegor` I was trying to duplicate an error I saw last night about a missing CSS file, but I can't. It was probably another tab in Firefox.
dybskiy joined the channel
#
gRegor` http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/extensions/ChangeGraphs/dots.js
eschnou joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk what version of ruby?
#
ben_thatmustbeme could be some error or change related to that
#
gRegor` The second error is inline, at line 48. "$(function(){ $("#dotchart1").dotChart("chart1");"
#
aaronpk 1.9.3p448 locally, 1.9.3.p545 on the server
#
rascul aaronpk i don't see that jquery is being loaded before dots.js, or even at all
#
gRegor` At a glance, I don't see jQuery included
#
gRegor` Heh. ^
#
tantek aaronpk, snarfed, any photos from PDX or SF HWC last night?
#
aaronpk hm it seems to be brought in via load.php or something
#
aaronpk tantek: I forgot to take a real photo but I took some screenshots
#
tantek heh ok
#
aaronpk did yous ee the notes we all added?
#
snarfed tantek: none from SF, sorry. need to get into the habit!
#
ben_thatmustbeme hmm, different gpgme gem version?
#
tantek yes! sweet!
#
tantek I add notes from MSP too!
#
aaronpk same gpgme gem version exactly :/
#
tantek snarfed - no worries - I totally understand - easy to forget. I almost forgot myself. and I *did* forget to hand out stickers
#
ben_thatmustbeme very strange. i have weird errors caused by non-printable characters somehow getting in there
#
tantek maybe we can make that part of the "new people introduce yourselves" bit - every new person that introduces themselves gets a sticker?
#
tantek (and anyone else that wants another :) )
#
aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/3f605ad055658568904d
#
tantek bbiab
#
gregorlove.com edited /Main_Page (+0) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ 7/2 HWC" (view diff)
caseorganic, brianloveswords and chloeweil_ joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, i get the EOFError on both 2.0 and 2.1 on different machines
nikol, emmak, snarfed, iangreenleaf, gRegor`, vanderwal, ngoldman, ozatomic, jonnybarnes, TimAbraldes, gavinc, sparverius, zaal, aaronpk, lmjabreu_, JonathanNeal, markmhendrickson, acegiak, dietrich, edrex, bigbluehat, hadleybeeman, walkah and bret joined the channel
#
Loqi bret: bnvk left you a message 2 hours, 32 minutes ago: yes, I am on my personal site brennannovak.com as well as my emotional journal app emoo.me
grantmacken, emmak, snarfed, iangreenleaf, gRegor`, vanderwal, ngoldman, ozatomic, jonnybarnes, TimAbraldes, gavinc, sparverius, zaal, aaronpk, lmjabreu_, JonathanNeal, markmhendrickson, acegiak, dietrich, edrex, bigbluehat, hadleybeeman, walkah, bret and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, wait, duh, you said its working on one machine but not the other
#
aaronpk it's working on my osx laptop but not on either linux server (fedora and ubuntu)
#
ben_thatmustbeme its looking for a key thats not there i'm guessing
#
aaronpk wat crap
#
Loqi lolz
#
ben_thatmustbeme i got the code working for myself by just using their example for sing
#
ben_thatmustbeme sign*
#
aaronpk i was wondering how that was possible that it was working... is the gpgme gem getting stuff from my filesystem?
#
aaronpk these docs leave much to be desired :(
#
KartikPrabhu curious talk by Matthew Butterick: http://unitscale.com/mb/bomb-in-the-garden/
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk run gpg --list-keys
#
ben_thatmustbeme on both machines
#
aaronpk oh dear
#
ben_thatmustbeme it ties in to your gpg keychain on the local machine
#
aaronpk yeah no keys on the server of course
#
aaronpk ok that is not at all what I want... can't I pass in a key to the verify method?
#
ben_thatmustbeme you should be able to, some way
#
Loqi yea!
#
aaronpk i think this has something to do with it http://www.ruby-doc.org/gems/docs/b/benburkert-gpgme-0.1.5/GPGME/Ctx.html
#
ben_thatmustbeme GPGME::Key.import(File.open("my.key"))
#
aaronpk ooo that worked
#
aaronpk this gem is weird
dybskiy joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme its not the gem, its how gpgme works
#
ben_thatmustbeme i remember now looking at this in php and ruby some time ago
#
ben_thatmustbeme they work the same way
pauloppenheim joined the channel
#
aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: could you do me a favor and link to your gpg key on your website with rel=pgpkey?
#
ben_thatmustbeme sure, i should be able to do that.
#
aaronpk i need to test this with something that is not in my gpg chain on my laptop
#
ben_thatmustbeme just actually generating a key for my newest email address
#
kevinmarks.com edited /fragmention (+173) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
emmak and eschnou joined the channel
#
kylewm aaronpk: you can test rel=pgpkey against my site too if you want!
#
kylewm i just changed it from rel=key
#
kevinmarks.com edited /fragmention (+0) "move TOC up to the top" (view diff)
#
aaronpk sweet
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
@kevinmarks @psygnisfive I just added it to http://indiewebcamp.com/fragmention as well (twitter.com/_/status/479694444619251712)
lupinedev joined the channel
#
@kyle_wm Excitement about IndieWebCamp in 1.5 weeks has given way to panic about not having a project to show off! (twitter.com/_/status/479695400299790337)
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk all set
#
aaronpk cool, me too almost.
#
@HerveCaumont RT @gp3dr0: indieauth uses the link relation "me" as new way of signing in on the web, check the instructions https://indieauth.com/setup (twitter.com/_/status/479696619672449024)
#
aaronpk lol crap relative paths
#
ben_thatmustbeme well see that, i'm helping you fix bugs already
#
barnabywalters aaronpk: they will never stop haunting you
#
ben_thatmustbeme and he would have gotten away with it too, if not for those meddling relative paths
#
aaronpk luckily ruby's URI can resolve URLs so I don't need to write one
#
aaronpk URI.join(base, relative)
#
ben_thatmustbeme Ben <3 Ruby
#
ben_thatmustbeme haha
#
aaronpk omg
#
aaronpk "http://ben.thatmustbe.me/static/ben.gpg" was not found on the site "http://ben.thatmustbe.me"
paulcp joined the channel
#
aaronpk *headdesk*
#
ben_thatmustbeme giggles
#
ben_thatmustbeme I just break stuff
#
aaronpk the good news is my error handling is working well
#
aaronpk ok I am reasonably confident this works now :)
#
aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: and kylewm: wanna give it a shot? try signing in at indieauth.com
eschnou joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme wait, when did you add google authenticator?
#
aaronpk looong time ago :)
#
ben_thatmustbeme never noticed that
#
aaronpk guess it was almost a year ago http://aaron.pk/a4R11
#
aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: if you re-scan your site you should see the GPG option
#
aaronpk woo it worked for me!!!
Garbee joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /events/2014-06-18-homebrew-website-club (+2) "Froehlich" (view diff)
#
ben_thatmustbeme gpg option where?
#
ben_thatmustbeme not seeing it
#
ben_thatmustbeme oh
#
ben_thatmustbeme there it is
#
aaronpk probably at the bottom
#
aaronpk uhoh rascul i'm getting ssl erros for you :(
#
rascul yeah i think i broke something
#
KevinMarks_ interesting: https://developers.google.com/web/starter-kit/
#
aaronpk rascul: no it's the weird error where it sometimes stops being able to verify SSL certs
#
rascul oh
#
aaronpk i kicked it in the pants and now it works
#
rascul yeah it works now
#
ben_thatmustbeme it works indeed
#
aaronpk WOO
#
ben_thatmustbeme i was about to say, what is the point, but it doesn't use any external site for auth this way
#
aaronpk that's the point!
#
ben_thatmustbeme yeah, i got that
#
ben_thatmustbeme thats excellent
#
aaronpk it's possibly easier than implementing your own auth server, which is the other way to not rely on external sites
#
rascul aaronpk i think i broke it again!
#
aaronpk whaaat the hell
#
aaronpk I don't get it ;-(
#
rascul it was just working... then it just stopped working
#
rascul oh well i can still use the last good scan
#
rascul my google+ doesn't work and i don't know why
#
barnabywalters aaronpk: I just successfully authenticated using my public key — also completely using a GUI!
#
barnabywalters aaronpk: thank you SO MUCH for implementing this
#
barnabywalters aaronpk: can I post wildly about it now or should I wait until further testing has been done?
#
aaronpk barnabywalters: WHOA nice!
#
aaronpk go for it!
#
ben_thatmustbeme rascul, your G+ profile doesn't link back to rascul.io with rel=me
#
barnabywalters actually might make a screencase gif
#
aaronpk barnabywalters: what tool do you use for signing?
#
tantek.com edited /YouTube (+966) "/* Issues */ Unequal treatment of indie artists" (view diff)
paulcp joined the channel
#
aaronpk I used keybase command line
#
aaronpk hmm makes me want to make this happen with magic iphone qr codes
#
barnabywalters aaronpk: GPGtools for mac comes with a bunch of services for encrypting, decrpyting and signing text
#
barnabywalters I copy the challenge into the textbox, highlight and go Firefox -> Services -> Sign
#
barnabywalters it’s a little quicker than logging in using a 3rd party auth provider, if with slightly more clicks
#
ben_thatmustbeme heh, i just used 'gpg --sign --armor --default-key='<mykey>' somefile
#
ben_thatmustbeme i don't often do things the sane way
#
barnabywalters it could be made quicker by pre-filling the textbox with the challenge, but that might be too specific and confusing
#
barnabywalters ben_thatmustbeme: “just” ;)
#
ben_thatmustbeme i also found a great way to make my machine get enough entropy to generate the key
#
ben_thatmustbeme it was taking forever. so i just did a find on my homedir
#
ben_thatmustbeme it generated REALLY fast after that
#
aaronpk ok so how cool would this be... download an iphone app and create a GPG key. link to the public key from your site (handwavy steps to get it there from the app). when signing in to indieauth.com, click the "Mobile GPG" button and a QR code pops up. launch the iphone app and scan the code. done.
paulcp joined the channel
#
aaronpk the QR code would encode the challenge to sign as well as a URL to send the signature to
#
ben_thatmustbeme i was just thinking about something like that
#
barnabywalters heads out to the office as home wifi will apparently take 32773 minutes to upload this 30 second video
#
ben_thatmustbeme i was thinking more of ways my site code could log-in to other's sites now
#
ben_thatmustbeme much easier than before anyway. but if i wanted i could probably make my site log in to the wiki and update my user page for me as i update it on my page
#
tantek.com edited /Events (+110) "move recent HWC to past, add a 2015 4/04 day suggestion" (view diff)
#
aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: POSSE to the wiki? awesome. I think I'd need to hack up the MW API to allow you to auth via the API to do that. otherwise you could do it by scraping the web interface
barnabywalters and paulcp joined the channel
#
barnabywalters screencast of GPG-assisted login now up at http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4WfKUc/
#
barnabywalters has anyone else ever felt the need to POSSE updates to posts to twitter? obviously not for typos, but when adding or making substantive changes to notes or articles, I often want to have the option to post a tweet summarising the update
#
barnabywalters which would be linked as an additional u-syndication link so that replies to the update also backfeed to the original
npdoty joined the channel
#
KevinMarks_ google web starter kit is mostly favicons with a hamburger menu: https://github.com/google/web-starter-kit/blob/master/app/index.html
caseorga_ joined the channel
#
KevinMarks_ fugly OLs http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://raw.github.com/google/web-starter-kit/master/app/styleguide/index.html
#
KevinMarks_ and non-black text ew
#
aaronpk barnabywalters: LOL oops I made it into your screencast
#
barnabywalters aaronpk: yup :)
#
aaronpk that's awesome btw
#
barnabywalters there was a bunch of space-switching that I edited out :)
#
barnabywalters thanks! GPGTools for mac is highly recommended
#
aaronpk looks like some of it stayed
#
barnabywalters I couldn’t get rid of it all easily — Quicktime is only tolerable for a certian amount of video editing
#
barnabywalters and iMovie is yik
#
aaronpk true
#
aaronpk final cut pro ftw
#
tantek.com edited /Google (+59) "Web Starter Kit" (view diff)
#
aaronpk barnabywalters: mine doesn't have the "sign in place" option like yours
#
barnabywalters aaronpk: you might have to manually turn on the service in Services preferences
#
aaronpk ah
#
KevinMarks_ QuickTime used to be great *sigh*
#
barnabywalters anyone know of a mac video editing app which is exactly half way between quicktime and iMovie?
#
barnabywalters i.e. suitable for doing actual editing, trimming, splicing, simple titles
#
barnabywalters without forcing you into a “project” structure with patronising effects and other such crap
#
tantek.com created /Google_Web_Starter_Kit (+552) "stub with links, criticism from kevinmarks in IRC" (view diff)
#
aaronpk maybe camtasia or other screencast software
#
tantek.com created /Web_Starter_Kit (+36) "r" (view diff)
#
KevinMarks_ hm, quicktime player 7?
#
barnabywalters implemented update POSSE https://twitter.com/BarnabyWalters/status/479721886503288832
#
@BarnabyWalters Update: added a screencast of #pgp #gpg auth! (http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4WfKUc/) (twitter.com/_/status/479721886503288832)
#
KevinMarks_ that has the old editing UI which is much quicker
#
KevinMarks_ could I sign using bitcoin?
#
barnabywalters KevinMarks: hrm I might still have a copy of that around here somewhere
#
aaronpk KevinMarks_: lol send a bitcoin to indieauth to sign in?
#
barnabywalters and edit POSSE works seamlessly with bridgy backfeed! http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4WfKUc/
#
barnabywalters excellent, now I can spam twitter with updates and separate-timezone “promotions” of my posts without a) actually re-posting or b) using twitter.com
tantek joined the channel
#
aaronpk are replies to your tweets also counted as replies to the original article?
#
barnabywalters aaronpk: as far as bridgy/original post discovery is concerned, yes
#
barnabywalters the update tweets are linked with rel/u-syndication
#
Jeena when a webmention was successfull received, http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention says: "upon successful verification the receiver MUST return a HTTP 200 Success response"
#
KevinMarks_ there's a "sign this" built into bitcoin clients
#
aaronpk KevinMarks_: oh right
#
KevinMarks_ if only I could remember my wallet password
#
Jeena so it is not ok to redirect to the post and then send 200?
#
waterpigs.co.uk edited /POSSE (+394) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ documented POSSE update behaviour in Taproot" (view diff)
krendil joined the channel
#
aaronpk Jeena: that sounds out of date, it should always return 202 accepted (see webmention.org)
#
barnabywalters KevinMarks: good point, bitcoin wallets are also arguably easier to set up than PGP
caseorganic joined the channel
#
Jeena I'm asking because I have a normal Form on my website and if someone uses it he/she gets only a 200 OK with a {"status":"OK"} which is not that nice
#
aaronpk i have a special case for the case when a browser sends the mention which sends back a redirect header
#
Jeena hm, how do you know it was a browser?
#
aaronpk i added a field to my form
#
Jeena oh cool idea!
#
aaronpk seemed like a harmless "hack"
#
Jeena yeah
#
tantek sounds like a hack worth documenting!
#
tantek ooh - above 100 in IRC (I see 102) again
#
snarfed aaronpk, Jeena: bridgy publish's "Include link" checkbox in the interactive form does the same thing (e.g. on https://www.brid.gy/twitter/schnarfed)
#
snarfed docs: https://www.brid.gy/about#omit-link
#
KevinMarks_ does bitcoin use pgp signing? or something related
friedcell and scor joined the channel
#
tantek aaronpk - just read through the /p3k page again - well done with such great documentation of features / work / thinking in progress
#
aaronpk oh thanks :)
#
tantek also really like the way you explain open sourcing parts of it for re-use
#
tantek !tell bret, for /projects I'm thinking it would help to have a "Inspiration" section just after "Installation" - for the selfdogfood projects that community members are building, that other creators can look to for inspiration (and potentially building block re-use)
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
tantek I did it again with the ","
#
for yo
#
aaronpk ha
#
Loqi for: tantek left you a message 24 seconds ago: /projects I'm thinking it would help to have a "Inspiration" section just after "Installation" - for the selfdogfood projects that community members are building, that other creators can look to for inspiration (and potentially building block re-use)
#
Jeena honestly the most fun with indieweb I have because I can work on my own software and can use open source stuff for the hard parts (like the microformats parser, or posting to facebook/twitter)
#
tantek that's a great description Jeena
#
tantek there's a strength to that style of community development that "whole cloth" solutions (like Tent, Ghost, etc.) just don't scratch
#
tantek "work on my own software + re-use open source building blocks"
nloadholtes joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme was that a loqi bug right there
#
ben_thatmustbeme oh
#
ben_thatmustbeme huh
#
kylewm aaronpk: PGP login worked for me too! that's awesome. noticed two little things - 1. I initially had rel="pgpkey publickey" and it didn't find that, 2. the box that says "Paste signature below" seems to actually want the entire signed document (is that right?) I tried pasting in only the signature part and that didn't seem to work
#
aaronpk it does want the whole document. i'm not sure the correct terminology.
#
aaronpk the output of keybase sign -m '...' works, as well as the output of the gpgtools "sign" function
#
ben_thatmustbeme should see if you can make that optional
#
ben_thatmustbeme or try both ways rather
#
kylewm I don't know the correct terminology before, but what about "Paste signed text below" ?
#
kylewm s/before/either
#
Loqi kylewm meant to say: I don't know the correct terminology either, but what about "Paste signed text below" ?
wolftune joined the channel
#
kylewm or even better (imho), what if it were just the one editable text box and said "Sign this text with your private key"? then no copy/paste if you have an extension like barnaby does
#
aaronpk I could do one field yeah
#
aaronpk didn't realize there was an extension that did that!
#
aaronpk barnaby is going to have to redo his screencast then :)
#
kylewm me neither! i installed WebPG after seeing his vid
#
aaronpk aw man i want to be done with this part
#
aaronpk but that seems like a good change given how the tools work
#
kylewm lol, you can just say "I accept pull requests"
#
kylewm that seems to be a good way to separate "it might be cool if..." sort of requests from "this would really improve my life" sort of requests :)
wolftune joined the channel
#
tantek aaronpk, I wonder if it would be helpful to indicate on our projects where "installation" is not a priority, explicitly that fact (that it's not a priority for us right now)
#
tantek I suppose the "only parts are open source" is a good enough disclaimer for now
#
tantek just thinking out loud (still iterating on /projects )
#
aaronpk is "only parts are open source" sufficiently clear? I mean if anybody here thought they could download and install p3k as a whole then it's clearly not :)
#
tantek well I clearly made that mistake when putting p3k in the "Get On The IndieWeb" section ;)
vanderwal joined the channel
#
KevinMarks_ "Get On The Indieweb If You're a Really Good Friend of Aaron"
#
tantek ok new subsection: Get Inspired (implied And Make Things)
#
jonnybarnes how did barnabywalters get indieauth.com to see his GPG key?
#
aaronpk you have to hit re-scan after adding rel=pgpkey
pauloppenheim1 joined the channel
#
jonnybarnes rel=pgpkey, thankyou aaronpk
#
aaronpk oh yeah this is all super not documented, sorry :D
#
snarfed aww, just noticed this blast from the past: the original bridgy release announcement, back when it was wordpress specific. https://snarfed.org/2012-01-08_bridgy_launched
#
snarfed complete with old cartoony logo
#
aaronpk aw that logo is adorable
#
kylewm snarfed: driving out to ocean beach last weekend, my gf said "hey look it's the golden gate bridgy"
#
snarfed ahahaha oh man
#
aaronpk kylewm: ok try signing in again :)
#
aaronpk !tell barnabywalters I already invalidated your screencast, sorry :-/ try signing in to indieauth.com again!
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
#
kylewm aaronpk++ two mouseclicks now, that's sooo nice!
#
Loqi aaronpk has 496 karma
#
aaronpk if you have a keyboard shortcut for signing then it's like one click!
#
bret tantek I lost all my work on my wiki edit yesterday :[
#
Loqi bret: tantek left you a message 29 minutes ago: /projects I'm thinking it would help to have a "Inspiration" section just after "Installation" - for the selfdogfood projects that community members are building, that other creators can look to for inspiration (and potentially building block re-use)
#
snarfed writinginthebrowser—
#
bret :'(
#
bret ill redo it this weekend or something
#
snarfed oh wow, adium combines two -s into — so i can't downkarma :/
#
bret lol
#
snarfed probably for the best
#
snarfed negativity--
#
aaronpk ha
#
Loqi negativity has -1 karma
#
snarfed aha, i just have to do it fast
#
snarfed writinginthebrowser--
#
Loqi writinginthebrowser has -1 karma
#
bret snarfed maybe you can turn that off in language and text in system settings?
#
snarfed bret: maybe!
#
bret that is where auto replace settings lives in osx
#
bret tantek, i was doing a loose sorting of projects based on aprox indiemark score, and number of users
#
bret for projects that were used for creating, running, serving/hosting indieweb sites
#
tantek.com edited /projects (+553) "new Get Inspired section with project p3k" (view diff)
#
tantek hey - Firefox has EXCELLENT session restore functionality, including textareas with edit text
#
tantek bret - you must have been using some other browser ;)
#
bret tantek i was
#
tantek (restore as in - crash, relaunch browser, re-opens tabs AND restores the edittext in them)
#
tantek has saved me MANY times
#
tantek especially when I run out of battery and my machine decides to do a hard restart upon reconnecting to power
#
aaronpk aw, the database behind evan.status.net is down http://evan.status.net/
#
aaronpk "The database for Just another StatusNet microblog is not responding correctly, so the site will not work properly."
#
snarfed tantek: agreed. the common case for me is web site failure, not browser failure. the form submission fails, or something pops up, or something else happens, and my form text is lost
#
tantek we need to start a collection of those
paulcp joined the channel
#
tantek the database fail screenshots
#
bret safari runs the most conservatively on my crappy laptop unfortunately
#
snarfed i want the equivalent of strings /dev/mem | grep for just the browser :P
#
tantek especially of prominent sites
#
Loqi gives snarfed the equivalent of strings
#
tantek bret - small edits
#
tantek also easier to async collaborate that way
#
tantek and with that, I'm off to sushi happy hour
#
tantek bret - take a look at the "Get Inspired" section and see if that section description makes sense to you
#
tantek I'm keeping your "tour-worthy" criteria in mind as we reshape the /projects page
#
tantek be back in a few hours
#
bret ok
iangreenleaf, iangreenleaf1, chrissaad1, snarfed, jsilvestre, paulcp, chrissaad, wolftune and scor joined the channel
#
pauloppenheim1 ben_thatmustbeme, kylewm, aaronpk: please use good PGP hygiene: https://help.riseup.net/en/security/message-security/openpgp/gpg-best-practices
ShaneHudson joined the channel
#
pauloppenheim1 there are other guides as well
#
aaronpk oh man
#
aaronpk this sounds like a lot of work
#
pauloppenheim1 yes
#
pauloppenheim1 it is
#
pauloppenheim1 this is why i don't use PGP much
#
pauloppenheim1 i have only automated some of this
#
pauloppenheim1 i have had my own "keybase" in (non) progress for a few years
#
pauloppenheim1 but basically most tools do very scary things. even the FSF's new guide for enigmail is a little scary
brianloveswords joined the channel
#
pauloppenheim1 admittedly, it's far better than nothing
#
aaronpk i think a lot of this stuff doesn't apply in the use case of signing in with your key
#
pauloppenheim1 correct
#
pauloppenheim1 but key hierarchies, selective online use, revocation, etc might
#
ShaneHudson Just found Sebatian's POSSE plugin for Wordpress, works pretty well! (https://github.com/sebastiangreger/sg-syndication)
#
ShaneHudson *Sebastian's
#
gRegor` pauloppenheim1: That'd be a good link to add to /pgp
#
pauloppenheim1 k
#
gRegor` Pretty high up. Maybe a section under Terminology "Good PGP Practices"
caseorganic joined the channel
#
pauloppenheim.com edited /pgp (+229) "Add "reference" near the top" (view diff)
#
KevinMarks "pretty good PGP practices"
#
pauloppenheim1 i feel like we're at a point where HSM makes sense
#
pauloppenheim1 because then we could make boxes that abstract much of this away
#
aaronpk what is HSM?
#
pauloppenheim1 Hardware Security Module
#
pauloppenheim1 if you sign apps for iOS, android, windows, etc you should REALLY look into HSM
#
gRegor` PGPGPP, KevinMarks. I like it. :)
#
pauloppenheim1 this is the kind of shit that keeps me from working on actual projects
#
pauloppenheim1 i have a very very shitty self-made HSM that is almost completely hand-driven
#
pauloppenheim1 but hey, it works for my CA
#
pauloppenheim1 and, you know, to keep blowing minds over here: https://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/6145/what-is-a-smart-card
iangreenleaf joined the channel
#
aaronpk whee crypo is fun
#
pauloppenheim.com edited /IRC_People (+67) (view diff)
#
pauloppenheim1 LOL
#
pauloppenheim1 i hadn't added myself to that yet
#
pauloppenheim1 and hadn't seen it
#
pauloppenheim1 and just realized nobody is using real olson timezone DB entries :P
#
pauloppenheim1 ie, America/San_Francisco does not exist
#
pauloppenheim1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_zoneinfo_time_zones
#
aaronpk we could switch to timezone offsets (normaltime/summertime)
scor joined the channel
#
pauloppenheim1 oh no
#
aaronpk both have problems
#
pauloppenheim1 location is better
#
pauloppenheim1 there's more information in it
#
pauloppenheim1 but yeah, olson is not obvious to people, that's why operating systems have those map-picker widgets
#
aaronpk the downside of named timezones is that you need to load a whole tz database to do anything with it, because the actual offsets change over time. (for example a few years ago DST moved)
#
pauloppenheim1 and everyone's like "where's my town?"
#
pauloppenheim1 aaronpk: right, but you want that
#
aaronpk in practice it ends up not being a big deal because all the platforms ship with the database
#
pauloppenheim1 the real problem with the olson db is that it's geopolitically insensitive
#
aaronpk but i could see that being an issue in like 1000 years
#
pauloppenheim1 it's already an issue, depending what country you're in
#
pauloppenheim1 the pakistan / india border, for instance
#
aaronpk like wtf timezone offset was America/Los_Angeles in August 2091 after they've gone through multiple iterations of when DST starts/ends and eventually abolish it
#
pauloppenheim1 aaronpk: right, but that's in with the update files
#
pauloppenheim1 which just updated!
#
pauloppenheim1 (yesterday i think?)
#
aaronpk right so for practical purposes right now are fine, but are potentially fragile in the long term
#
aaronpk like hundreds of years scale
#
kylewm snarfed: got a mystery for you! bridgy has demoted my facebook to 1x/day because it thinks i've never sent a webmention https://www.brid.gy/facebook/12802152
#
snarfed kylewm: hah, funny
#
pauloppenheim1 well, olson is less fragile than the microsoft solution, because at least it's centralized and the update record is pretty well distributed
#
snarfed kylewm: i mean, sorry :P
#
kylewm lol
#
kylewm don't say sorry, it's probably my fault!
#
snarfed nah i doubt it
#
snarfed filing
#
pauloppenheim1 k, back to auth hacking
#
aaronpk oo whatcha hacking?
lukebrooker joined the channel
#
GWG snarfed: I saw your message
#
pauloppenheim1 aaaaand azure died
#
snarfed GWG: ok!
#
pauloppenheim1 aaronpk: http://wetpaint.azurewebsites.net/
#
pauloppenheim1 i would suggest not using it yet
#
aaronpk aw, email/pass login?
#
pauloppenheim1 it's actually a cryptographic challenge / response system
#
pauloppenheim1 but it uses email as a key, yes
#
aaronpk oh. it just looks like email/password
#
pauloppenheim1 right :)
#
GWG snarfed: I'm stumped though
#
snarfed GWG: forgot the context
#
aaronpk snarfed: hmm if I were to run my own streaming twitter search, could I turn off bridgy twitter and just use bridgy for the mf2 URLs for tweets?
fmarier joined the channel
#
snarfed aaronpk: thinking
#
snarfed aaronpk: sure. it'd take some work to handle the streaming events, distinguish replies vs retweets vs favorites vs mentions, and fetch the right mf2 url, but sure you could
#
aaronpk seems like they all come in separately here? https://dev.twitter.com/docs/streaming-apis/messages#Events_event
#
snarfed aaronpk: yup
#
snarfed aaronpk: you can even use https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/blob/master/twitter_streaming.py as a reference. it does exactly that
#
snarfed the only reason i had to drop it is because it stopped working after i hit a hundred or so twitter users
#
aaronpk oh hmm!
bnvk joined the channel
#
aaronpk i'm actually running my own twitter streaming search right now for a bunch of things, that's how loqi finds tweets so fast
#
Loqi grins profusely
#
snarfed aaronpk: ah, the comment in that file that starts "not handling replies right now…" is important. basically, it's hard to get full @-reply chains, since you don't have the original tweet, and the api only really lets you walk down the chain, not up
nloadholtes and fmarier_ joined the channel
#
snarfed anyway. lots of similar learned-from-experience in there.
#
GWG snarfed: 502 errors
#
snarfed GWG: ah, right
#
GWG snarfed: I can't reproduce
#
snarfed GWG: ah well. maybe ignore for now. you can always send a webmention manually to push it through if you want, based on that log link i sent
#
GWG snarfed: I think it is a capacity issue at certain times of day
#
snarfed GWG: oh wow, that sucks
#
GWG snarfed: I'm looking into it. I need to add some finer grain monitoring to isolate the times and find a solution
#
snarfed GWG: http://jetpack.me/support/monitor/
#
GWG snarfed: Wrong level.
#
snarfed are you sure? i think the probe requests come from wordpress.com, ie they're entirely external
#
GWG snarfed: I have monitoring on the server level, but I have thresholds set to avoid getting overwhelmed with email alerts. I need to temporarily lower them
#
GWG snarfed: I found your 504s in my access log
#
snarfed GWG: got it. monitoring in depth is always good, maybe consider jetpack's in addition to yours
#
snarfed GWG: hmm, i wonder if those are my requests. bridgy saw 502s, not 504s
#
GWG snarfed: 502, excuse me
#
snarfed ok
#
GWG snarfed: I grepped it right
#
GWG snarfed: The culprit is likely in the nginx/php-fpm configuration.
#
@matdryhurst Eager to redo my site but will just wait for @withknown to launch as it seems like everything I could have wanted. #indieweb props @benwerd (twitter.com/_/status/479769124781166592)
#
GWG snarfed: I should ask bear 's advice next week. I gather he knows a lot in that aea
#
snarfed sure!
KartikPrabhu and caseorganic joined the channel
#
GWG snarfed: I wonder if my Wordpress work has me neglecting my server maintenance
#
snarfed GWG: eh, not neglect. everything breaks eventually, just fix things when they break. :P
#
bear yea, unless you do it as a day job - fix things as they break
#
GWG bear: Yes, but it is your day job. It is my...not job.
#
GWG bear: That's why I sometimes fall behind on tracking issues
#
bear :)
#
GWG bear: May ask you some advice next week in person
#
bear sure thing