#indiewebcamp 2014-08-25

2014-08-25 UTC
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GWG Been slow myself
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gRegor` Strongly considering migrating from /Nucleus to /ProcessWire
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gRegornobacktick /leave
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GWG I'm still trying to figure out something.
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gRegor` Heh
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GWG If I set up a script that allows someone to fill out a text box that will send a push notification to my cell phone, will I quickly become enraged and/or annoyed and take it off?
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snarfed GWG: just for support and solidarity, i'm still happy on WP, no plans to switch to anything else. i don't count my indierank, but i'm sure it's pretty high up there
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GWG Or will no one use it?
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snarfed (and the vast majority of bridgy users are on WP too)
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GWG snarfed: I know. I started getting sad when willnorris left.
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gRegor` Seems like it would be ripe for spam, GWG. But maybe worth a try?
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GWG gRegor`: Wouldn't giving my AIM name do that as well?
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GWG Assuming someone other than tantek still has that up
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gRegor` Sure, but do you have AIM PUSH to your phone?
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GWG No
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GWG I would be doing a semi-custom solution
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GWG One-way only
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gRegor` AIM spam would be much less of a nuisance, then, IMO.
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GWG I suppose I could set up an XMPP system
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gRegor` I get AIM spam every now and then. I think it's because their db has been compromised at least once
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gRegor` Plus I've had the AIM screenname so long, it's bound to have gotten out there.
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snarfed GWG: i actually doubt you'd get much (any) spam. spammers only target systems with really big installed bases - email, aim, wordpress. unique forms like yours aren't worth their time to go discover and understand
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Kartik well hello!
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gRegor` Github changed their notification icon to a little inbox document tray. I like it.
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KartikPrabhu haha this web client thingy is neat!
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gRegor` OMG, Double Kartik! What does it mean?? :)
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GWG If I build it, will you all help me test it?
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cuibonobo hmm!
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GWG cuibonobo: Hmm?
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cuibonobo my nick is registered on freenode but it didn't complain?
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cuibonobo (i'm testing the browser irc)
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GWG cuibonobo: That is what I said
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cuibonobo oh really?? haha sorry
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GWG That nickserv wasn't working
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GWG I doubt it will, but it should not allow existing names
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cuibonobo i agree!
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com (+4) "/* Contributions */" (view diff)
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tantek test
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GWG Test what, tantek?
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tantek this is cuibonobo impersonating tantek!
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tantek end test
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cuibonobo this is why god invented nickserv
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gRegor` So that's problematic :)
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cuibonobo gRegor`: yuuuup
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KartikPrabhu ha! nice test
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GWG Hi, KartikPrabhu
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KevinMarks GWG scoble has had his phone number on his site for ages, he says he rarely gets spam from it
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@theindieweb Tuning up my Little Piece of the Indieweb - http://prettygoodhat.com/2014-08-24-tuning_up_my_piece_of_the_indieweb.html (twitter.com/_/status/503701474837536768)
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GWG Kevinmarks: That surprises me.
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GWG Kevinmarks: I've never had the pleasure of meeting Robert Scoble, but considering his notoriety, I'd imagine he is a target for attention
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GWG Wordpress site using the default theme
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GWG How uninspired
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GWG Kevinmarks: Also, it is sort of hiding
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bret_beta lol whut
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bret_beta this is crazy
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GWG Kevinmarks: You think I should call him and ask his advice?
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GWG is kidding
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gRegor` Sad: http://scobleizer.com/?p=8494 "Someday I might come back to the blog, but the world has moved and it is on social media. "
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GWG gRegor`: Noticed that too
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bret its my impression a lot of people dont care what they are using
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@laurenbacon RT @kevinmarks: Dave Winer makes a case for POSSE to facebook http://scripting.com/2014/08/24/whyWorkWithFacebook.html - see http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/503708279562711040)
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kylewm bret: or they get more readers and engagement on social media
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GWG kylewm: I'm for engagement.
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GWG kylewm: What's the point of speaking if no one is listening?
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bret talking to yourself? ;)
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bret i started a website as a way to take notes on things I was learning
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/kevinmarks/503628678048133120/503708279562711040 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (webmention)
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bret that goal quicky falls by the wayside as I just want to learn more, rather than write about it
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GWG bret: That is where the indieweb all falls down
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GWG You can't build a community based on sharing if no one is sharing
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GWG Admittedly, I kick myself for not expressing my thoughts more often
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GWG Note to self...write a post tonight
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GWG Instead of working on h-cards
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bret do it!
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bret GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 14 karma
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GWG bret: I'm thinking of writing about my geeky communications methods
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GWG bret: I've been working on improvements to my theme since June
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GWG But I just learned about transients...and am thinking of going back
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@timmmmyboy Pretty excited about the potential for #wire106 to expose what's possible with #indieweb principles to a larger audience! (twitter.com/_/status/503712915875454976)
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kylewm scoble's love for Facebook seems so misplaced though. I don't get any tech news there, don't think I know anyone who does
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kylewm what is wire106?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "wire106" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=wire106
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@timmmmyboy Pretty excited about the potential for #wire106 to expose what's possible with #indieweb principles to a larger audience! (twitter.com/_/status/503714091266228226)
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kylewm apparently it is a class about The Wire
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@seguros9 Why the #IndieWeb movement is so important #freelancers #bloggers http://dangillmor.com/2014/04/25/indie-web-important/ (twitter.com/_/status/503719584604909568)
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@seguros9 La fabrica no nace arriesgada, se hace… —> #Riesgos #RiskEverything #Risk #Bloggers #Freelancers #IndieWeb #Syp9 https://twitter.com/seguros9/status/503725000822906880/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/503725000822906880)
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@seguros9 La fabrica no nace arriesgada, se hace… —> #Riesgos #RiskEverything #Risk #Bloggers #Freelancers #IndieWeb #Syp9 https://twitter.com/seguros9/status/503725866866970625/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/503725866866970625)
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pk test!
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aaronpk nickserv lets me stay connected as a registered user way longer than I would have thought
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@gasull RT @kevinmarks: Dave Winer makes a case for POSSE to facebook http://scripting.com/2014/08/24/whyWorkWithFacebook.html - see http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/503729744622682112)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/kevinmarks/503628678048133120/503729744622682112 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/503628678048133120/11628 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (webmention)
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KevinBBQ Is there a nick length limit?
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GWG BBQ?
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aaronpk it's like 20 or something, IRC sets it, I forget
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KevinBBQ I'm on the edge of connectivity here in the garden
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GWG Oh
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GWG Are you BBQing?
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KevinBBQ It didn't seem to like kevinmarksbbq as a nick
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aaronpk KevinBBQ: I'm also fiddling with stuff right now
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aaronpk so i'm restarting the node process periodically
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KevinBBQ Ah, ok. I got a b
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KevinBBQ s/b/nickserv alert I couldn't dismiss/
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Loqi KevinBBQ meant to say: Ah, ok. I got a nickserv alert I couldn't dismiss
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aaronpk yeah that was fake
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aaronpk i'm styling it right now
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aaronpk sorry KevinBBQ you're gonna get disconnected a bunch
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KevinMarks_ Yes I'm bbqing. Last night I went to the fancy supermarket and bought organic chicken thighs. I said "give me 6 " expecting 1-2lb
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KevinMarks_ Nope, 3lb of meat
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GWG KevinMarks_: Try Costco. Then you expect that many
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KevinMarks_ So I had 3 left over which I marinated in yogurt and tandoori sauce overnight, and I'm cooking them now
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GWG Yogurt? Interesting
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bret night
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aaronpk ok well now if nickserv sends notices you'll see them on the web client
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GWG aaronpk: Does that prevent impersonation?
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aaronpk no
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aaronpk I thought clients got kicked by nickserv if they don't identify in some amount of time, but that doesn't seem to be the case
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aaronpk it's not the job of the IRC client though
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GWG I didn't know that.
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GWG aaronpk: Agreed.
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GWG That is why I squat continuously.
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aaronpk at least now the web client will show you when nickserv yells at you
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expandrew.com created /User:Expandrew.com (+474) "Created page with "== Andrew Westling == designer and aspiring web developer I have a degree in architecture and I like to think about connections between real world environments and the new land..."" (view diff)
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expandrew.com edited /User:Expandrew.com (+9) "/* Andrew Westling */" (view diff)
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expandrew.com edited /User:Expandrew.com (+15) "/* Andrew Westling */" (view diff)
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expandrew.com uploaded /File:a.png "Andrew Westling (expandrew.com)"
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expandrew.com edited /User:Expandrew.com (+6) (view diff)
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expandrew.com edited /User:Expandrew.com (-46) (view diff)
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KevinMarks__ Aaronpk: did you see https://jawbone.com/blog/napa-earthquake-effect-on-sleep/
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aaronpk oh nice
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aaronpk thanks
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expandrew.com created /Template:expandrew (+115) "Created page with "<span class="h-card">{{sparkline|http://andrewwestling.com/img/a.png}}[[User:Expandrew.Com|Andrew Westling" target="_blank">User:Expandrew.Com|Andrew" target="_blank">http://andrewwestling.com/img/a.png}}[[User:Expandrew.Com|Andrew Westling]]</span>"" (view diff)
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expandrew.com edited /events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club (+16) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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expandrew.com edited /Template:expandrew (+0) (view diff)
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@AndreJaenisch @webstandardat Habt ihr schon einmal was von #WebMentions gehört? Damit könnt's mgl sein via #Microformats Tweets als Forenposts einzubinden (twitter.com/_/status/503815078290788352)
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barnabywalters !tell benwerd,kevinmarks noticed duplicates of http://known.kevinmarks.com/2014/kevin-marks-posted-i-frequently-retweet-old-style-to-add in shrewdness, same content is served from both that URL and http://known.kevinmarks.com/2014/i-frequently-retweet-old-style-to-add-extra-info-usually — what happened here? content edit? URL structure edit? the one starting “kevin-marks-posted-” appears to be the canonical one (linked from
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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barnabywalters both URLs) but the other doesn’t redirect to it
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tantek !tell aaronpk for ?beta, perhaps 1) auto detect URLs in the join field and do /indieauth and then use their /irc-people nickname, and 2) block anyone joining using a name that's already listed in irc-people
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@seguros9 In addition, you share simple readable links such as http://t.co/N1M4fLH6oY. #IndieWeb #Bloggers #Freelancer http://dangillmor.com/2014/04/25/indie-web-important/ (twitter.com/_/status/503876599394369536)
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@UnOrigMoniker RT @superglaze: Remember Google’s Wave? Thanks to Sandstorm, it’s easy to start using again http://gigaom.com/2014/08/21/remember-googles-wave-thanks-to-sandstorm-its-easy-to-start-using-again/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/503897760824037377)
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
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ben_thatmustbeme good morning tantek
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aaronpk_ Good morning!
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Loqi aaronpk_: tantek left you a message 2 hours, 16 minutes ago: for ?beta, perhaps 1) auto detect URLs in the join field and do /indieauth and then use their /irc-people nickname, and 2) block anyone joining using a name that's already listed in irc-people
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aaronpk_ This interface stil needs a little work to be usable on mobile
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tantek mobile text input is hard
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aaronpk_ And the zooming thing is weird right now
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aaronpk_ This is pretty amazing though
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tantek yeah!
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ben_thatmustbeme what is this?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "this" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=this
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: see: http://indiewebcamp.com/this ;)
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aaronpk_ Ben go to today's irc log and add ?beta to the URL then scroll to the bottom
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ben_thatmustbe oh NICE!
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ben_thatmustbe well done sir
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aaronpk_ :-)
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ben_thatmustbe immediately
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aaronpk_ 🎉
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ben_thatmustbe that was weird
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ben_thatmustbe immediately
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ben_thatmustbeme the /me only takes the first word
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tantek ben_thatmustbe have you not seen the realtime updating logs before? that's so last week ;)
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tantek er, two weeks ago
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aaronpk_ Oops lol
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ben_thatmustbeme i've been out of it for the past couple weeks
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aaronpk_ Must be a bad regex
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ben_thatmustbeme work got busy again then i was at devopsdays
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ben_thatmustbeme then i was doing work on the house
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ben_thatmustbeme deletes his mobile IRC client
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ben_thatmustbeme haha
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tantek lol
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aaronpk_ This is almost better than a mobile irc client
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aaronpk_ So close
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tantek aaronpk - in some ways already better
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tantek I don't know of any mobile IRC clients that show faces
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aaronpk_ True
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aaronpk_ Just a few interface glitches to work out
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ben_thatmustbeme indeed. i would much prefer this to a mobile client
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ben_thatmustbeme i don't often use any direct messaging or other rooms (besides indiechat)
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aaronpk_ Oh this probably won't update in the background tho
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ben_thatmustbeme true, no notifications or highlighting if your name is mentioned
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tantek aaronpk - that's ok the page reloads when you go back to it
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ben_thatmustbeme but extremely low barrier to entry
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: true, visible highlights in the logs of your name would be cool
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aaronpk_ I'm planning on adding desktop notifications for mentions, I wonder what mobile browsers will do with those
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tantek when joined (or even when not joined but maybe with a cookie)
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aaronpk_ KevinMarks already filed an issue for that 😃
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tantek aaronpk - pretty sure Firefox on Android will send you notifications, also FxOS
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aaronpk_ Well we will find out soon!
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tantek wow if you get that working I may have to start carrying my FxOS "phone" with me just as an IRC client.
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aaronpk_ I am also extremely pleased I was able to do this entirely with native browser APIs, no JS libraries
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aaronpk_ The code is relatively small too
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tantek that *is* very good
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ben_thatmustbeme very moce
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ben_thatmustbeme nice*
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aaronpk_ https://github.com/aaronpk/indiewebcamp-irc-logs/blob/master/chat.php
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aaronpk_ Looks like my connection stayed open when switching tabs within mobile safari, nice
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tantek I wonder when "indiewebcamp-irc-logs" becomes "indiewebcamp-irc-client" ;)
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aaronpk_ It survived switching to the messages app and back, but did not persist after my phone went to blank screen
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tantek netsplits?
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tantek !tell caseorganic looksl like http://cyborgcamp.com/ is running WordPress and some IndieWeb plugins! Which plugins in particular? Is the cyborgcamp.com setup documented anywhere?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell her that when I see her next
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barnabywalters cyborgcamp.com apparently hasn’t had the h-feed treatment yet: http://shrewdness.waterpigs.co.uk/test/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcyborgcamp.com%2F
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barnabywalters !tell caseorganic,aaronpk cyborgcamp.com is looking great, I’d love to see some microformats support e.g. h-entry and h-event! http://shrewdness.waterpigs.co.uk/test/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcyborgcamp.com%2F
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek barnabywalters, why does shrewdness need an h-feed? I see plenty of h-entry's: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http://cyborgcamp.com/
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tantek (even if not ideally marked up, should still be consumable)
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barnabywalters tantek: shredness doesn’t need h-feed, look at the data in the test util — the markup is almost completely broken
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barnabywalters I recommend actually looking at links before critiquing them :)
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tantek lol - click all the links! :)
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barnabywalters AFAICT it’s built-in wordpress classic microformats support, which is rather incomplete
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tantek it used to be more complete
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tantek not sure how / why it broke
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tantek classic hAtom / hentry used to work well
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barnabywalters yeah, IIRC it’s because wordpress splits the responsibility for inserting that markup between the back end core wordpress code and the theme author
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tantek ah so that turned out to be a fragile approach
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tantek somewhat related - should we *not* do implied p-name when doing backward compat parsing?
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snarfed tantek: aaronpk set up cyborgcamp.com
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barnabywalters tantek: I suspect that would have more downsides that upsides, e.g. microformat objects with no names (currently impossible in mf2)
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tantek barnabywalters: ok
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barnabywalters better to have *something*, however messy, rather than nothing
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tantek snarfed, was wondering about that. do any of the indieweb WP plugins add proper h-entry markup (or repair hAtom / hentry markup) ?
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tantek bbiab - watching logs on browser.
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snarfed tantek: yes! sempress and wordpress-uf2 are good and mature. there are also smaller semi-documented hacks. i think /WordPress already has the details
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@Uebyn Joined the #indieweb to try & regain control over my own content. Thx to @indiewebcamp, I can now use Tumblr with my own domain name. (twitter.com/_/status/503928015441502208)
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aaronpk actually it was mostly caseorganic who set up cyborgcamp.com, I was just importing old posts from other past versions of the site
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Loqi aaronpk: barnabywalters left you a message 20 minutes ago: cyborgcamp.com is looking great, I’d love to see some microformats support e.g. h-entry and h-event! http://shrewdness.waterpigs.co.uk/test/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcyborgcamp.com%2F
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aaronpk she's using the P2 theme, so that would need an update to support h-entry
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aaronpk the cool part of this site was that we didn't have to write any code at all, just installed wordpress, installed the IndieWeb and IndieAuth plugins and that's it
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barnabywalters (aside: Loqi feature request: when !tells are left for more that one person, it would be great if Loqi said “X left you, Y and Z a message:”
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aaronpk ha true
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jonnybarnes barnabywalters: when you favourite something on twitter, is that info on waterpigs.co.uk as well?
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: nope, I haven’t implemented posting likes yet
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jonnybarnes ooh i also see you have checkins working better
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barnabywalters although now I’m using shrewdness all the time it’s higher up in my priority chain
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aaronpk oh I guess the right way to do it is to make a child theme of P2
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barnabywalters a little better, yes — my geocoding endpoint stopped working and I haven’t fixed it yet
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aaronpk barnabywalters: what was your geocoding endpoint?
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barnabywalters aaronpk: provide lat/long, get h-adr (or optionally only one property as plaintext) back
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aaronpk nice, did you write it yourself?
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barnabywalters http://waterpigs.co.uk/services/location/
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barnabywalters it’s just a wrapper+rate limiter+OSM-> h-adr converter around nominatim
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jonnybarnes I donlt know what to do for mine, currently I geolocate for lat lng values, then the place "name" is just a plain text entry
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aaronpk I'm using the Esri reverse geocoding endpoint to find city name. I don't get more granular than that except for specific venues from instagram
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barnabywalters still needs to hook note posting up to waterpigs.co.uk/places
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aaronpk still needs a /places list
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barnabywalters but that’s boring infrastructure compared to fun shrewdness UI work
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aaronpk poll: for posts that have a duration, like bike rides or sleeps, would you expect to see the date as the start or end time?
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aaronpk for example http://aaron.pk/m4XnKTD and http://aaron.pk/m4XnNZe
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barnabywalters well for h-entry it should be the datetime the post was published
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aaronpk in theory these posts are published at the end of the event
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barnabywalters h-event has dt-start, dt-end and dt-duration for exactly those purposes
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barnabywalters so you could just add those
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barnabywalters potentially making the h-entry a h-event also
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aaronpk looks like my sleep have dt-awake and dt-alseep
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Loqi [mention] http://edumio.com/?p=3963 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/why (pingback)
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aaronpk but I need to pick a date for the permalink line, so I guess that should be the date it is published
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aaronpk then I need to figure out where in the UI to put the start/end times for my bike rides
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aaronpk barnabywalters: not sure what the benefit of marking those up as h-event would be
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barnabywalters aaronpk: when someone builds a mf2 event -> iCal tool it’d allow you to visualise your sleep data in any calendaring app
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aaronpk aha! great
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barnabywalters or indeed a mf2 calendaring app (ahem shrewdness eventually ahem)
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tantek and back
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2013/09/17/1/itching-h-event-to-ical-converter
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tantek tries to catchup
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aaronpk almost been a year... that's quite an itch
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barnabywalters or how about iCal -> micropub? post events to your site using any calendaring app
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barnabywalters aaronpk: tantek still holds the record of three years, IIRC :)
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tantek where is P2?
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tantek what is P2?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "P2" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=P2
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aaronpk I couldn't find the source code for P2, but I am also not very familiar with wordpress dev stuff
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tantek aaronpk - where did you get P2 from
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aaronpk installed from the themes section in wordpress
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aaronpk same with the plugins
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aaronpk it's all pretty slick now, you can install stuff right from the admin panel
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tantek is that slick admin install process documented on /WordPress?
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aaronpk reviewing...
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aaronpk I don't think this is true anymore "By default, the administrative user created during Wordpress installation is username 'admin'. "
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tantek_ trying FF31 with irc?beta from laptop2
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tantek ok this is cool
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barnabywalters_f so if the WebIDE FxOS simulator is accurate, this also works from FxOS devices
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tantek.com created /P2 (+451) "stub with dfn, home page, support, issue missing microformats support" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /p2 (+16) "r" (view diff)
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barnabywalters_f it’d be cool if there’s some API allowing text inputs to add suggestions to the FxOS autosuggest bar
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barnabywalters_f e.g. in this client it could add all of the present usernames
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aaronpk oh that's an awesome idea
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barnabywalters_f maybe datalist is the best way of going about that?
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barnabywalters_f it would make up for (and indeed improve on) the lack of a tab key
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tantek_ barnabywalters, aaronpk, how about tabcomplete from /irc-people also? e.g. for !tells :)
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barnabywalters_f tantek_: even better!
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aaronpk from irc-people is way easier than from the actual list of people in IRC, I could see doing that
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tantek_ so you could !tell someone tabcomplete even when they were not in the channel!
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barnabywalters_f tantek_: who do we have to bug at mozilla to make this happen?
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aaronpk although I've never done tab-complete stuff in JS before
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tantek_ aaronpk, what did you think of my suggestion to hookup indieauth to the "join" box?
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aaronparecki.com edited /P2 (+63) "expand dfn" (view diff)
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aaronpk tantek: I do like the idea of signing in with IndieAuth
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aaronpk it definitely can't be the only option though
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tantek.com edited /P2 (-1) "/* missing microformats support */ WP core provides *hentry* - not yet microformats2 h-entry" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /hentry (+260) "stub" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /WordPress (+251) "/* Security and Spam Protection */ remove note about default account being "admin" since now the installer prompts you to create an account. add references to IndieAuth and IndieWeb plugins" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /hentry (+12) "classic" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /P2 (+33) "add link to home page" (view diff)
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jonnybarnes whats this irc?beta
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: irc client in the web logs
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tantek aaronpk - was not advocating it being the only option, just *an* option - e.g. autodetect a URL and use indieauth on it
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aaronpk jonnybarnes: try it out :) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/today?beta#bottom
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aaronpk tantek: yeah seems cool, I guess what is the actual benefit though?
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tantek aaronpk, actual benefit is the part 2 of what I wrote earlier
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jonnybarnes_beta and I type in here?
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jonnybarnes_beta wow
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jonnybarnes_beta cool
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tantek block use of any nickname in the "join" button
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tantek s/any nickname/any irc-people nickname/
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Loqi tantek meant to say: block use of any irc-people nickname in the "join" button
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aaronpk do you think that is going to be a significant problem?
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jonnybarnes_beta people asking for tab-completion in this
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tantek so if you're on /irc-people, you *must* login in with your indieauth domain name to use your nickname via the web UI
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aaronpk I mean anyone can sign in to IRC using a real IRC client as anyone else
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jonnybarnes_beta what happens to people using assistive technologies and use the tab button for navigation
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tantek aaronpk - well it eliminates the impersonation problem that cuibonobo demonstrated
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aaronpk so it's not like it actually prevents impersonation
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tantek aaronpk - like most security, it's not a matter of absolute prevention
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tantek rather, reduction
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tantek having such a easy-to-use web-based IRC client will mean many more people will use it, (lower barrier), thus it's reasonable to provide that for /irc-people
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jonnybarnes arent most people's nicks password protected on freenode?
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jonnybarnes i know mine is
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tantek jonnybarnes: it doesn't stop people from joining and using your nickname
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aaronpk jonnybarnes: I was trying that out yesterday... I didn't actually get kicked by nickserv using someone else's nick
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tantek as cuibonobo demonstrated yesterday with "tantek
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tantek "
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tantek all nickserv helps you with is to boot them out when you join
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barnabywalters yeah, I registered my nick then forgot the password, so now use it without identifying
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jonnybarnes then whats the point in nickserv?
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tantek_com looks like nicknames can't contain periods
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aaronpk I think nickserv will let you boot someone else off if you want
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aaronpk but it doesn't appear to be automatic
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tantek_com no it's not
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tantek_com hmm - looks like my web client is now half connected!
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aaronpk oh no!
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tantek_com I can post, but the log is not updating!
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aaronpk oops it crashed!
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tantek_com half crashed?
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aaronpk well there's two servers running
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tantek heh
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aaronpk one for streaming the logs to viewers, and a separate one that only handles input from the web form
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aaronpk ok restarted it and launched with a while true loop
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aaronpk that's my favorite kind of process monitor
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tantek_com so yeah the basic idea is, type your domain name into the Join box (e.g. tantek.com)
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tantek_com do URL detection on it and then run it through indieauth flow
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tantek_com assuming it authenticates, use it to look up nickname in /irc-people
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tantek_com and use that nickname if found, if not, turn the periods in the domain name into _ and use that (like this)
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aaronpk seems reasonable
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tantek oh plus the logs could auto-link to such domains without requiring an entry in /irc-people
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tantek such domain nicknames
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aaronpk haha, replace "_" with "." then run the autolinker on it?
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Loqi nice
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tantek_com right. and then the h-card discovery / photo / logo use from the domain root becomes even more useful
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tantek_com (the yet to be implemented that barnabywalters was asking for)
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gRegor` You can enable nick protection with nickserv and it will auto-boot if your nick doesn't identify within 30 seconds
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aaronpk gRegor`: ohh is that a per-nick setting?
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tantek all of a sudden the IRC web client becomes a good live example of how to consume indieauth and then show a person's avatar and link to their home page in a fully federated fashion.
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tantek perfect example for your next IndieAuth talk aaronpk
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aaronpk ok i'm sold :)
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aaronpk tho that probably means I'm gonna implement h-card discovery into indieauth.com as part of the service it provides
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aaronpk so when you verify an auth code with indieauth.com it returns not just the domain name but also the h-card
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tantek yeah, the representative h-card discovery
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aaronpk https://indieauth.com/developers##successful+response
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tantek_com I'm pretty excited about this web IRC client thing - means no more hassle with blocked ports e.g. at NYT
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tantek_com hmm - looks like indieauth.com doesn't implement the fragmentions js
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gRegor` aaronpk: It's a Nickserv command, so per-account
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tantek what is Nickserv?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Nickserv" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Nickserv
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gRegor` https://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nickisgone "SET ENFORCE ON"
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gregorlove.com created /Nickserv (+111) "stub" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /nickserv (+22) "Redirected page to [[Nickserv]]" (view diff)
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gRegor` what is Nickserv?
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Loqi Nickserv is an IRC service that allows registering and protecting your nickname http://indiewebcamp.com/Nickserv
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tantek what is P2?
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Loqi P2 is a WordPress theme maintained by Automattic that supports posting from the home page and realtime updates http://indiewebcamp.com/P2
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tantek well I documented a page for P2 but contributing seems to require some sort of human dialog on a "forum" which I don't really feel like doing. I just want to contribute the minor patches needed to add microformats classes. I don't want to have a big web-based-forum discussion about it
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KevinMarks_ Barnaby: I tried posting as both a status and a post, so manual duplication
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Loqi KevinMarks_: barnabywalters left you a message 6 hours, 19 minutes ago: noticed duplicates of http://known.kevinmarks.com/2014/kevin-marks-posted-i-frequently-retweet-old-style-to-add in shrewdness, same content is served from both that URL and http://known.kevinmarks.com/2014/i-frequently-retweet-old-style-to-add-extra-info-usually — what happened here? content edit? URL structure edit? the one starting “kevin-marks-posted-” appears to be the canonical one (linked from
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barnabywalters KevinMarks_: ah okay, makes sense — there should still be a redirect in place really
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tantek barnabywalters, aaronpk, caseorganic not sure what else I can do to help get cyborgcamp.com's markup parsable by microformats2 browsers. If you find a simple/easy way to submit patches / pull requests to P2, please add it to /P2 ! Thanks.
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barnabywalters not sure how best to go about fixing this
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barnabywalters but if there’s a redirect or 410 shrewdness at least knows to do something about it
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tantek aaronpk, re: bike rides / durations - do you ever pause/resume during those? e.g. on Nike+ when tracking runs, if you stop, it pauses, and then resumes when you start running again.
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tantek re-using dt-start and dt-end from h-event makes sense - I'm just wondering about the pause/resume nature of fitness metrics in particular
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aaronpk_ I sometimes pause
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aaronpk_ It makes the avg speed more accurate
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tantek right - same here
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tantek so in that case do you track / have access to all the start/stop absolute times?
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gregorlove.com edited /IRC (+297) "/* Creating a registered nickname */ Enforcing authentication to use your nickname" (view diff)
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aaronpk_ i think so... Not sure
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tantek or is that merely summarized in the "duration" meaning actual time-in-motion
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tantek which might be *less* than dt-end minus dt-start !
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gRegor` Testing with my registered nick on the web chat
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Guest25610 Got a popover from NickServ to identify, so that's good.
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Guest25610 But we can't /msg here, right?
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Guest25610 /nick gRegor-web
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Guest25610 Heh
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tantek.com created /Indie_Tech_Summit (+858) "stub with dfn, link, relation to indiewebcamp participants" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Events (+52) "/* 2014 */ 07-04 Indie Tech Summit" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /place (+19) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Special:Log/move () "moved [[venues]] to [[venue]] over redirect: singular preferred" (view diff)
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ben_2 /msg ben_thatmustbeme hello
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tantek.com created /places (+19) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /Places (+19) "r" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme ah so you can /msg nickserv but not one else
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ben_thatmustbeme seems reasonable
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tantek_com aaronpk++ for an amazingly usable #indiewebcamp web UI
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Loqi aaronpk has 551 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk++ what he said
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Loqi aaronpk has 552 karma
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aaronpk actually /msg should work to other people too, I was trying it myself
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aaronpk but the web ui doesn't show /msgs because where would they show up
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KartikPrabhu seems we have finally tricked aaronpk into making a web IRC client!
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aaronpk indeed
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snarfed tantek_com: aaronpk: re microformats with P2, try the wordpress-uf2 plugin. (already documented on http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress#microformats :P)
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KevinMarks_ Maybe the faces should only be shown if you indieauth?
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KevinMarks_ So the impersonation problem is documented
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KevinMarks_ Or have more than one face+name style to show auth status, as classically done to show mods
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KevinMarks_ Web UI could show msgs as web notifications, make it the browsers problem. Is there a notification pokyfill?
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KevinMarks_ s/pokyfill/polyfill/
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Loqi KevinMarks_ meant to say: Web UI could show msgs as web notifications, make it the browsers problem. Is there a notification polyfill?
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aaronpk i don't want to have to store whether a message was written by an auth'd user in the logs
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aaronpk especailly cause it's harder to tell if regular IRC users are authed
barnabywalters and caseorganic joined the channel
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KartikPrabhu there you go gRegor` more proactive: https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/503958100525584385
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@kartik_prabhu @adactio if you are still in Chicago by Wednesday evening, you should be our special celebrity guest attendee to the Homebrew Website Club!… (twitter.com/_/status/503958100525584385)
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gRegor` :)
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KartikPrabhu well adactio is flying out Wed evening
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gRegor` Ah, bummer
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KevinMarks_ You could give extra being for indieauthing, eg a website link
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aaronpk heh https://twitter.com/indie/status/503960381841473536
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@indie Sorry for the delay but we had to use our own player because Vimeo’s own player contains Google spyware (see https://aralbalkan.com/notes/spyware-2.0/) (twitter.com/_/status/503960381841473536)
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gregorlove.com edited /Indie_Tech_Summit (+13) "/* See Also */ ind.ie" (view diff)
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aaronpk their own player still references the raw media on vimeo.com
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aaronpk most likely against the vimeo TOS
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: seriously! calling every tracking code as spyware is kind of too much
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gregorlove.com edited /ind.ie (+40) "See Also" (view diff)
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ben_2 wonders
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gRegor` wanders
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ben_2 wonder what will happen if this is open at the midnight rollover
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aaronpk it'll just keep working
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ben_2 gregor` it cuts off emotes
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ben_2 losing all history?
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ben_2 ?beta redirected to the actual day
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barnabywalters aw, the videos still aren’t encoded using a free encoding which FF can play
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aaronpk barnabywalters: you should point that out
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aaronpk the video files are still from vimeo
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barnabywalters wow, this is quite a sentence! https://aralbalkan.com/notes/spyware-2.0/##A+decentralised+system
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aaronpk wow
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gRegor` definitely needs to set up queueing for sending webmentions.
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barnabywalters gRegor`: posting UI taking a long time to do anything?
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gRegor` Yep :)
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gRegor` Even just one wm to brid.gy publish
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KartikPrabhu barnabywalters: that is no sentence!
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com (+60) "/* Interests */" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: what is the video URL?
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barnabywalters gRegor`: this might be of some interest if your site uses PHP: http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4R_M2J/
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: go look at the bottom of the source of this page https://ind.ie/summit/videos/opening-keynote/
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: thanks
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gRegor` Interesting, barnabywalters. I'll look into that more. I was working on setting up beanstalk, but I'm on Dreamhost (shared) and I'm not sure they permit running the daemon.
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aaronpk I doubt you'll be able to run a background daemon on dreamhost
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aaronpk or any shared host for that matter
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gRegor` The wiki seems to indicate that, though I had one running for at least a couple days. I forgot to check back since then
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gRegor` Right, that's what I was thinking.
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barnabywalters gRegor`: I’ve been using post-content “tasks” for ages now with no problems — just make sure to send a Content-length header if you’re using the response in an AJAX call
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gRegor` Good to know
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emmak gRegor`: dreamhost also allows you to run cron jobs
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gRegor` Yeah, I'm using cron for my incoming webmentions currently
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KevinMarks_ the "browser refreshes on mobile" is true for ff and iOS safari, but not chrome android
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gRegor` I might upgrade to VPS soon. I'd like to do more with queuing
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KevinMarks_ I switched back to yesterday's irc tab and today's updates started appearing
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aaronpk oops
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tantek snarfed, cool. it wasn't clear that that plugin would work with P2
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tantek.com edited /P2 (+865) "note workaround to lack of microformats support, and add FAQ with unanswered questions, indie web examples" (view diff)
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tantek here's a "microblogging" open source web app (installable on Firefox OS) that "supports Twitter and App.net" https://github.com/minego/macaw-enyo
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tantek just asked for micropub support, and directed folks here for questions: https://github.com/minego/macaw-enyo/issues/27
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tantek barnabywalters, aaronpk ^^^
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aaronpk nice!
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barnabywalters why doesn’t that page have a list of sites which support micropub? especially if we’re using it for evangelism now
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KartikPrabhu barnabywalters: good point!
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tantek I bring up Macaw because it is one of the featured apps in the Firefox Marketplace: https://marketplace.firefox.com/app/macaw?src=featured
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aaronpk there's this http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#Implementations
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tantek that's different
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tantek why and examples should be at the top
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /micropub (+311) "Added indieweb examples section with myself" (view diff)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /micropub (+0) "moved TOC" (view diff)
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kartikprabhu.com edited /micropub (+174) "add indieweb examples" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu oh no clash!
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barnabywalters nooo
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KartikPrabhu barnabywalters: I'll fix it
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barnabywalters thanks KartikPrabhu
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tantek.com edited /micropub (+101) "better dfn, more example" (view diff)
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tantek adds to the clash
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tantek.com edited /micropub (+7) "-*" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /micropub (-41) "collapse" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk, when did you launch micropub support on aaronparecki.com and for what post types?
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kartikprabhu.com edited /micropub (+167) "fix clash of multiple sections" (view diff)
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tantek barnabywalters and KartikPrabhu you too when did you launch micropub support on aaronparecki.com and for what post types?
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KartikPrabhu no... more clash
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aaronpk wish there was a better way to search my git commits
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tantek lol
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kartikprabhu.com edited /micropub (-135) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu phew fixed :)
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barnabywalters aaronpk: git log -q | grep micropub -C 2
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aaronpk added micropub photo support on 2014-02-24
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barnabywalters 2014-03-10 for me
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aaronpk basic note support was added on 2013-12-25
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aaronpk added pushup types on 2013-12-28
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /micropub (+0) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ clarified date" (view diff)
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aaronpk barnabywalters: `git log --grep=micropub` works great
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barnabywalters huh git log -h didn’t mention the —grep option
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aaronpk I just google stuff and look for the stackoverflow answers. that usually works.
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barnabywalters KevinMarks: did you get micropub posting to known working with benwerd’s new updates?
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aaronpk really need to make a micropub plugin for wordpress
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aaronpk who's up for that? my wordpress chops are not so good.
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barnabywalters KartikPrabhu: have you ever posted replies from shrewdness?
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KartikPrabhu barnabywalters: no. i couldn't get the Reply button to work remember
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barnabywalters KartikPrabhu: oh huh is that still an issue
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barnabywalters okay I’ll look into that
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KartikPrabhu barnabywalters: haven't tested in a while. let me try
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barnabywalters might need a hard refresh
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KartikPrabhu barnabywalters: seems to work. would be good if Shrewdness showed my log in status on top...
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barnabywalters KartikPrabhu: yay! yep, I need to figure out the best way of showing current user status as well as logout
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Loqi woot
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barnabywalters part of that is figuring out how best to surface different spaces in the UI — I’m anticipating the user status UI to be in the same palce
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barnabywalters s/palce/place
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Loqi barnabywalters meant to say: part of that is figuring out how best to surface different spaces in the UI — I’m anticipating the user status UI to be in the same place
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tantek.com created /Template:snarfed (+151) "because I used it" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu barnabywalters: cool. I'll keep Shrewdness in mind next time I have to reply to a post.
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barnabywalters aside: I’m really enjoying seeing posts from people I don’t follow (via other shrewdness users) in my search columns
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barnabywalters wondering if I should integrate twitter search as well
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barnabywalters searches have real URLs and therefore can be scraped: https://twitter.com/search?q=indieweb&src=typd
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KartikPrabhu barnabywalters: so if I subscribe to some site on Shrewdness it recommends it to you also?
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barnabywalters KartikPrabhu: well not “recommends” as such, but the posts show up in everyone’s search columns
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KartikPrabhu aah I see.... nice
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tantek.com edited /micropub (+198) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ expand aaronpk info, date of micropub support, multiple types" (view diff)
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aaronpk tantek: thoughts on moving the "clients" section to under the indieweb examples section?
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tantek doing it now
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aaronpk ah cool
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tantek.com edited /micropub (+355) "move Client Apps section up (sorted alphabetically, feel free to pick another sort), and open source / implementations" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /micropub (+1) "/* Open Source */ space" (view diff)
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aaronpk nice trick preserving the #Implementations id. was going in to edit that to add it and saw yo ualready did :)
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tantek.com edited /micropub (+181) "move details inside how to implement, move form encoded piece down below endpoint discovery etc." (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk I started trying to organize the spec-like bits into how to implement
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aaronpk yay that's looking nice now
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Loqi woot
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tantek right now it seems the client app and server side pieces are mixed together a bit
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aaronpk happy to see some other people jump in on that page too :)
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tantek but I'm afraid I know too little to understand how to properly separate them
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aaronpk oh you mean the "how to implement" has both client and server bits?
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tantek e.g. in to "how to implement a client" and "how to implement an endpoint" sections instead of "how to implement"
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aaronpk good idea
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aaronpk yeah this was originally written as a description of the whole thing
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tantek aaronpk I'm enshrining you as editor of the spec
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aaronpk :)
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bret aaronpk I would be happy to meet up with you sometime to work on the micropub pages/spec
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aaronpk sweet
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aaronpk maybe wednesday evening?
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bret before/after HWC?
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aaronpk before or during?
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bret i think that might work
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bret let me see how early I can get there
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aaronpk cool
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tantek.com edited /micropub (+87) "Editor aaronpk, license CC0 to start with (should add OWFa), edit summary" (view diff)
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aaronpk can it be licensed CC0 *and* OWFa?
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tantek yes
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tantek per https://wiki.mozilla.org/Standards/license#CC0_OWFa_Preferred
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aaronpk how?
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tantek embed https://wiki.mozilla.org/Standards/license#MediaWiki
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tantek (replace the CC0 line I added with that - since you're the editor)
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aaronpk k
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tantek e.g. see how h-entry does it: http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry
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aaronpk leave the date templates?
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tantek yeah they auto-update to today
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aaronpk I think it reads better with the "web apps and native apps..." section above the editor section, is that ok?
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tantek yeah - cluster them into the same paragraph at the top with the dfn.
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KevinMarks barnaby: I don't think known has micropub by defualt yet
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aaronparecki.com edited /micropub (+430) "CC0+OWFa license. rephrase description, remove comparison to Twitter (can add back later somewhere less high in the sentence hierarchy)" (view diff)
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aaronpk probably should have done that as two edits
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aaronpk oh also I described that edit wrong, oops
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tantek looks infe
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tantek s/infe/fine
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Loqi tantek meant to say: looks fine
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aaronpk hm, I suppose I need to add "sleep", "route" and "pushup" to the list of kinds of posts http://indiewebcamp.com/posts#Kinds_of_Posts
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aaronpk oh there's an /exercise page, i'll just add that
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aaronparecki.com edited /posts (+15) "/* Kinds of Posts */ add link to [[exercise]]" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /exercise (+388) "/* Aaron Parecki */ add examples of run / walk / bike / sleep posts" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks This @webfoundation festival sounds ideal for the #indieweb https://twitter.com/webfoundation/status/502516319917715456 #WebCreate #OpenWeb#MyWebIdea #Indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/503991610560872448)
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@evanwolf RT @kevinmarks: This @webfoundation festival sounds ideal for the #indieweb https://twitter.com/webfoundation/status/502516319917715456 #WebCreate #OpenWeb#MyWebIdea #Indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/503991822276780032)
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@benwerd @webfoundation To echo @kevinmarks, check out the #indieweb, empowering people to own their own space on the web. http://indiewebcamp.com (twitter.com/_/status/503992059909251072)
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Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/webfoundation-to-echo-kevinmarks-check-out-the-indieweb-empowering-people linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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tantek aaronpk: do you prefer Micropub to be capitalized? or lowercase micropub?
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tantek (no opinion either way, your call)
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aaronpk I think normal capitalization is easiest
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KevinMarks hm, I'll possibly be in london that weekend
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tantek.com edited /micropub (-2) "one para for 2 sentences, move TOC up near top in more spec-like style" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Special:Log/move () "moved [[micropub]] to [[Micropub]] over redirect: capitalize per aaronpk pref" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Micropub (-10) "this is not a stub, this is a spec" (view diff)
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aaronpk heh did it just graduate?
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tantek also this way the TOC doesn't interfere with any of the How to implement code
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tantek while the lists of sites/implementations are short/simple enough to not be disturbed by the TOC being next to them
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aaronpk cool
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tantek and just added to this too since you added the OWFa bits: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Standards/license#Example_Specifications
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aaronpk sweet
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tantek now you just have to split "how to implement" into "how to implement a client" and "how to implement an endpoint" :)
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aaronpk that will be my job for wednesday
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aaronpk :)
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tantek yay!
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Loqi :D
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aaronpk hey not bad, less than 1 year from first edit to stub removed!
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aaronpk (3 weeks short of a full year)
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tantek nice!
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tantek.com edited /Micropub (+84) "/* How to implement */ copy edit summary of section, grammar" (view diff)
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tantek ok done tweaking /Micropub for now - great work on this aaronpk, looking forward to Wednesdays updates :)
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aaronpk awesome, thanks!
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tantek ah one more link...
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tantek.com edited /Micropub (+339) "/* Clients */ Client implementation requests / Macaw" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - is there an issue filed on Known to support Micropub?
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tantek as a client or server?
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tantek add here when there is : http://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub#Client_implementation_requests :)
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aaronpk don't see one, but I thought he had made a note of that already
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aaronpk !tell benwerd is there an open issue on Known to support Micropub? If not, I will gladly create one!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KevinMarks somethign of an auth antipattern: http://facebook.smallpict.com/2014/08/25/postingToWordpressAndFacebook.html
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aaronpk eesh
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aaronpk this is why we have oauth
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tantek oh hey - insecure "XML-RPC endpoint for updating the blog" which requires username/password.
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KartikPrabhu hmm is Dave Winer reinventing POSSE through XML-RPC?
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aaronpk what? xml-rpc is ancient
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KevinMarks well, he helped invent xml-rpc so not exactly reinventing
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KartikPrabhu I meant reinventing POSSE
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aaronpk xml-rpc doesn't really have anything to do with posse
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KartikPrabhu "The server will look at the source of the page to discover the address of the XML-RPC endpoint for updating the blog."
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aaronpk if anything, i'm reinventing XML-RPC but without the XML or the RPC, and with OAuth instead of username/password auth
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, got a google domains beta invite
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aaronpk me too, but haven't used it yet
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ben_thatmustbeme used the invite key, not much to do with it other than order stuff
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ben_thatmustbeme not sure i really want to order my domain through google. not sure what I'm getting myself in to honestly
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aaronpk luckily you can always move away if you want
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ben_thatmustbeme huh.. oh, well, .us domains don't do private registration
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ben_thatmustbeme would have been nice to know BEFORE i ordered
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aaronpk haha oops
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@Nadreck Intriguing: https://sandstorm.io #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/504012613072977920)
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KevinMarks_ Interesting http://blog.dantup.com/2014/08/you-have-ruined-html/
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KevinMarks_ .uk ones don't either, and they want a UK address
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aaronpk KevinMarks_: my favorite quote from that: "Do your programming in a programming language. Don’t try to embed it in some crazy will-never-be-a-standard binding expression invented by a fly-by-night JavaScript framework."
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aaronpk same reason that I avoid templating languages
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aaronpk and just use straight PHP, or erb for ruby
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KevinMarks_ I just quoted the same bit
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KevinMarks_ Does polymer make this potentially better? Because it will build real dom?
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jonnybarnes aaronpk: I donlt think a templating language is such a bad thing when built with something like PHP
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aaronpk i'm talking about template languages like Smarty or Liquid: http://www.smarty.net/docs/en/language.basic.syntax.tpl and http://liquidmarkup.org/
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cuibonobo a few months ago i underwent a comprehensive survey of JS frameworks in order to decide on one for a company project
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cuibonobo my conclusion was they are pretty much all terrible
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aaronpk lol
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cuibonobo they're so complicated that learning how they work is about as much work as learning a new programming language
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jonnybarnes aaronpk: how about something like twig?
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gRegor` PHP works really well by itself as a template language. That's one reason I like ProcessWire. https://processwire.com/api/why-php-syntax/
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cuibonobo APIs that needed hundreds of pages of docs to explain. just a mess.
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aaronpk gRegor`: it's not clear from that post if processwire is actually just running PHP or re-interpreting PHP syntax
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aaronpk jonnybarnes: twig is another example of the problem
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gRegor` re-interpreting PHP syntax?
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tantek cuibonobo it is quite ironic
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aaronpk gRegor`: ok it looks like it's actually running PHP
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tantek developer doesn't want to read to understand a programming language (or the DOM). developer creates a framework that requires reading hundreds of pages of docs to understand.
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cuibonobo tantek: and it wasn't just one developer. there are scores of them :)
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tantek cuibonobo: we used to call that: 20 GOTO 10
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aaronpk but it's just so tempting to make frameworks! :)
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tantek is somewhat guilty of that.
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tantek though cassis.js tends to just get weird looks from other JS (or PHP) devs.
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cuibonobo in case anyone is interested in what i finally went with: https://github.com/muut/riotjs it's just 3 functions: one for object messaging, one for templating, and one for URL routing
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cuibonobo the docs aren't great, but you can read the entire body of code in 5 minutes so...
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tantek small is good
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gRegor` aaronpk: Yeah, the framework is a lightweight way of accessing pages and fields within those pages, but when it comes to outputting them, it's just PHP. No abstractions built in to it.
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gRegor` Or even just static HTML for a template, no PHP necessary. I like that flexibility.
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aaronpk gRegor`: cool, yeah that's a senseible way to do it
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KevinMarks_ Cassis.js is weird, though. It anticipated node.js by requiring you to think very hard while writing it
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KevinMarks_ I have the same feeling about things like bootstrap
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@benatkin self-host your selfies! #indieweb #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/504020097909145600)
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KevinMarks_ (as cuibonobo has about mvc frameworks I mean, not about Cassis.js)
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benatkin hehe...I told someone about Cassis.js recently
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aaronpk I treat bootstrap as a better UI than the default browser styles. I don't usually go in and customize/theme bootstrap things
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KevinMarks_ Except bootstrap is not responsive unless you really work at it
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tantek bootstrap is far more than bootstrapping
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benatkin KevinMarks_: borderline FUD imo
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tantek it's more like bloatstrap
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aaronpk aw y u no like bootstrap
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tantek because it's maybe 10x more bytes than is necessary for such functionality
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aaronpk show me something smaller and i'll gladly switch
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aaronpk but I use all the components regularly
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tantek it's called CSS
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aaronpk i'm talking about http://bootstrapdocs.com/v3.1.1/docs/components/
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benatkin responsive doesn't mean perfect adaptation to all common devices
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KevinMarks_ Ok, bootstrap 3 is kinda responsive. Bootstrap 2 isn't at all.
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aaronpk bootstrap *is* css
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aaronpk without bootstrap, indieauth.com would look super ugly, just saying
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benatkin KevinMarks_: ok can agree :)
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tantek aaronpk - ok, when I generalize my homepage HTML/CSS into something 1/10 the size of bootstrap but covering perhaps 80% of the actually useful/necessary technology, I'll let you know.
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benatkin needs moar blue though
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tantek see also HTML5 Boilerplate
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benatkin microsoft should have kept the electric blue in windows XP
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benatkin now if they use it, in order to symboliize trust, people will think they're stealing it from facebook and twitter
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benatkin http://www.colormatters.com/blue
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KevinMarks_ Tantek, did you get any further with microformats as templates?
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KevinMarks_ It gets trickier with e-
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tantek KevinMarks: do you mean the work in /template ?
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tantek GWG, snarfed, all you other WordPress fans, here's an example of why I dislike WordPress:
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tantek "There are 7 comment(s) that have not been processed by Defensio." <-- I should never see something like this in a CMS/publishing UI
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tantek WTF is Defensio?
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tantek (yeah I know it is a plugin - why is it bugging me in a giant yellow box?)
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tantek "There might be a connectivity issue between you and Defensio. Your comments will automatically processed within the next 10 minutes, or when connectivity is restored."
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@Bali_Maha @tanyalau it's two steps. Install indieweb plugin & connect ur twitter w brid.gy (plus unspam the twitter comments & approve em) (twitter.com/_/status/504023208073637888)
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tantek hah - yeah, "unspam the twitter comments"
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KevinMarks I'm at the point with kevinmarks.com that I need to do some kind of templating
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KevinMarks I wondered if you had got anywhere with mf-2 based ones
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tantek KevinMarks: could you rephrase "need to do some kind of templating" as the specific use-case you're trying to solve?
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KevinMarks I have a lot of static pages. I'd like to add some generic wrappers so they get css styles, fragmention.js and webmention support. In the spirit of "do it by hand until it hurts", using a templating pass would be good for this
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KevinMarks eg http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2014-08-13.html has these, http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2013-11-20.html doesn't
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tantek so like page header / footer stuff?
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KevinMarks yes, that to start
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KevinMarks maybe constructing a better hfeed page than doing it manually to follow
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rascul why not use static site generator?
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KevinMarks yes, that's probably the best option
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rascul or you could be like me and write your own ;)
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rascul just don't use mine, it's not ready for human consumption
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KevinMarks heh
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KevinMarks a static site generator will peforce need some kind of templating
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@jmenglund03 @Bali_Maha Did you know that @withknown can be installed on our domain now (check out the app in cPanel): https://drive.google.com/uc #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/504030672277610496)
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ShaneHudson What's the state of fragmentions? Likely to change soon?
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GWG tantek, I don't think WordPress should be held responsible for a poorly designed third-party plugin
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GWG aaronpk, have you seen this? http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2014/08/powerful-new-messaging-features-with-gcm.html?m=1
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GWG KevinMarks, ipv6? yay you
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KartikPrabhu ShaneHudson: status as in?
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ShaneHudson KartikPrabhu: I know there was a lot of talk about changing the syntax, using css selectors etc
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KartikPrabhu ShaneHudson: oh those were by the folks at the other w3c chat
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KartikPrabhu most people here agree that is not a good idea
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ShaneHudson Ah okay :)
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KartikPrabhu the one syntax based discussion here was to just use a # instead of ##
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snarfed GWG: re GCM, 700kqps! phew, that's no joke
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GWG snarfed, got an idea for it?
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snarfed GWG: sorry? i don't follow
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GWG snarfed, for GCM. Bridgy could send notifications
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GWG I remember aaronpk talking about a mentions app
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snarfed GWG: ah, no, no plans like that. webmention recipients can choose whether/how to do that on their own. i was just impressed at GCM's traffic volume
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GWG I have WordPress send it using a plugin.
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GWG snarfed, now that it is open to general use, curious to see what people build
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snarfed GWG: if you have the wordpress app, i think it can notify you on every new comment
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snarfed (and afaik gcm has been open to general use since android launched. this just looks like new features.)
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GWG snarfed, I was referring to the new features that are now open to general use
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snarfed GWG: sure! you didn't need any of them to just send notifications though. :P regardless, good stuff.
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GWG snarfed, I think I am aiming lower right now
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GWG Hi, tantek
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tantek hi GWG
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tantek is trying to save some open edits on wiki pages before the flight closes its doors.
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GWG tantek, where are you going?
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tantek GWG returning to SF :)
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GWG Ok. Didn't know that you left?
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tantek that happens ;)
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GWG Yes