#indiewebcamp 2014-08-26

2014-08-26 UTC
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KartikPrabhu tantek: might enjoy this instance of indieweb sarcasm lost: https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/504008543910232065
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@kartik_prabhu @ScottKellum @chriscoyier was it different than writing your own tweet to respond to another tweet? (twitter.com/_/status/504008543910232065)
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tantek yeah that's a bit too subtle ;)
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KartikPrabhu i know :P
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tantek I might have said something like
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tantek What if I told you I was responding to your tweet by writing on my own site? You think this is a tweet you're reading?
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tantek (in Morpheus voice)
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KartikPrabhu ha!
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tantek lift-off imminent. ttyl!
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KartikPrabhu yeah
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KartikPrabhu ciao
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Loqi [mention] https://kylewm.com/share/2014/08/26/1 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-25/line/1409002355255 (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://kylewm.com/share/2014/08/26/1 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-25/line/1409002403046 (webmention)
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: nice sharing of multiple posts with context!
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aaronpk ooh I wonder how that woudl look as one of my "collections"
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: thanks! I'd like to implement some nice way to stick a citation in a regular post, so I could quote arbitrary excerpts (I think we've discussed that before). but for now it's nice the logs have a permalink for each line :P
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aaronpk I need to move the photo property inside the h-card for the IRC lines :)
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/collections/2014/08/25/1/
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kylewm awesome, aaronpk! i like how it looks like a native post
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: fragmention citations inline! yes do that plz :P
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aaronpk just realized that my collections UI may need a better indication of the actual source of a post
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aaronpk right now it only shows the domain name of the author, but in that example, the author is tantek.com but the content lives at indiewebcamp.com
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@Neoryder IndieWeb Baby Steps 2 http://onthe8spot.com/?p=5832 (twitter.com/_/status/504134854754045952)
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tantek home and just now seeing some IRC lines being "reposted". oh boy.
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tantek don't those collections lack context without cuibonobo's statement? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-25/line/1409002389576
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GWG tantek: Good flight?
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tantek GWG, any flight you walk away from is a good flight :)
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tantek pops into #indiechat
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tantek !tell KevinMarks I encourage you to add a subsection for kevinmarks.com here and add your use-cases: http://indiewebcamp.com/template#Use_Cases
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu on fragmentions and quoting: https://the-pastry-box-project.net/sorin-pintilie/2014-august-25
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KartikPrabhu can someone please make fragmentioned reply-contexts to show that this ^ is not needed at all!?
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colintedford.com edited /WordPress (+9) "/* People using WordPress */ Much as I look forward to leaving Wordpress, I haven't yet & won't for some time." (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (+2) "/* For now */ Add UI to mockup task" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (+93) "/* Eventually */ intrigued by messaging" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (+176) "/* For now */ Putting off new functions 'til post-Wordpress." (view diff)
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@agoracollective RT @JockelLohkamp: thx @kirilind for sharing @t 's video on the Once and Future #IndieWeb https://www.youtube.com/ #GETDBerlin @GOTOber @Gate… (twitter.com/_/status/504238013107298304)
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Guest451 tantek_
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Guest451 heh
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Guest451 /nick tantek_
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tantek_ !tell KartikPrabhu <p> is the wrong element for transclusion of someone else's text anyway. We already have <blockquote> for that. And it already has a "cite" attribute for referencing the source.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek_ AND most importantly, it already has a way of statically including the text *you saw* at the point in time of when you quoted it. So you can dynamically enhance it with some sort of JS-dynamic stuff and the cite attribute if you want. No new markup needed.
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Loqi [mention] https://kylewm.com/share/2014/08/26/1 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-25/line/1409002389576 (webmention)
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eliemichel Loqi: I'm new here. What does your last message here means?
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eliemichel is there a bot here that records webmentions presented like that?
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kylewm eliemichel: welcome :) yep, Loqi notifies the channel about webmentions to indiewebcamp.com (and various other things)
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Loqi is done
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barnabywalters welcome eliemichel!
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lewiscowper also anytime anyone uses the #indieweb hashtag
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eliemichel okey, so Loqi is a bot?
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eliemichel nice =)
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@LewisCowper I’m really excited to see more people getting involved in the #indieweb. We need some kind of sticker though. (twitter.com/_/status/504255257644642305)
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lewiscowper (Like that)
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lewiscowper I don't know whether Loqi as a whole is a bot, I'm fairly sure I've seen a random comment that doesn't seem scripted.
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lewiscowper but they're definitely at least partially automated
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eliemichel 15:12 * Loqi is done
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eliemichel ^ like that
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lewiscowper yeah
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eliemichel simple curiosity”¯: how old is indieweb?
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kylewm eliemichel: see http://indiewebcamp.com/timeline ... short answer, started in 2010
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eliemichel thx
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eliemichel What is webmention.io for? Is it a way not to be DDoS by webmentions or something like that?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "webmention.io for? Is it a way not to be DDoS by webmentions or something like that" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=webmention.io+for%3F+Is+it+a+way+not+to+be+DDoS+by+webmentions+or+something+like+that
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eliemichel Indeed, this is a bot --
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barnabywalters eliemichel, lewiscowper: a little more information (and cute photos) about loqi on it’s website: loqi.me
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eliemichel ahah
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barnabywalters eliemichel: from http://webmention.io/ “Webmention.io is a hosted service created to easily handle webmentions (and legacy pingbacks) on any web page.” — does that answer your question?
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eliemichel mmh
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eliemichel not really
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eliemichel why is it useful to have a service being webmentionned instead of my site?
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barnabywalters eliemichel: so you can accept, store and display webmention comments without having to implement it yourself
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eliemichel I see
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eliemichel ok, thanks =)
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eliemichel Now another question: Does somebody know what has OStatus become?
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eliemichel I seems like it is dead
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eliemichel The majority of links that I can find are dead
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eliemichel there is no news since 2012
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eliemichel but I can't find any reliable source saying this is dead, or going to be
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barnabywalters eliemichel: I don’t know of any project under active development which uses all of OStatus, nor anyone actively working on it
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barnabywalters parts of it (e.g. PubSubHubbub and activitystreams) are under development and some use
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barnabywalters e.g. I think pump.io makes use of activitystreams
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barnabywalters typically the technologies involved were/are overcomplicated and difficult to implement
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barnabywalters http://indiewebcamp.com/OStatus lists some of them, and actively used indieweb equivalents
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /OStatus (+27) "/* IndieWeb Equivalents */ webmention not used as publishing notification, PuSH 0.4 is" (view diff)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /OStatus (+16) "/* IndieWeb Equivalents */ linky" (view diff)
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eliemichel yeah I see it as overcomplicated in some way too
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eliemichel especially Salmon
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barnabywalters early indieweb creators typically tried to use existing OStatus (or similar era e.g. openID, pingback) standards on their personal sites before getting fed up and simplifying them
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eliemichel but why is h-card in front of ActivityStreams and not WebFinger?
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eliemichel that's how I found IndieWeb too ;)
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eliemichel I was trying to gather info about OStatus to try and implement it
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barnabywalters e.g. I tried to implement salmon integration with statusnet but never got it working, with zero help forthcoming from the statusnet/ostatus community or codebase
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barnabywalters eliemichel: h-card is a vocabulary (like activitystreams) whereas webfinger is a discovery mechanism (like rel-me)
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eliemichel I droped Salmon from my todo-list before trying to implement it ^^
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barnabywalters eliemichel: sounds like a productive decision, especially now status.net runs on pump.io
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eliemichel yep but I though WebFinger is, in its foundments, a way to give back info about ourself
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eliemichel Salmon is still used by Diaspora*
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barnabywalters webfinger never actually had any way of encapsulating profile data, it just allowed you to get a bunch of links given an email address
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eliemichel I read it is also used for private messages in D*… Makes nosense imho
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barnabywalters eliemichel: pretty sure Diaspora’s OStatus implementation was somewhat customised — it certainly wasn’t compatible with status.net
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eliemichel It is not
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eliemichel actually they don't say they use OStatus
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eliemichel although their protocol is near from it
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barnabywalters it did integrate with friendica for some time, but I think that was a project-specific collaboration rather than both impementing a documented standard
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barnabywalters yeah, Diaspora really tried hard to use existing standards, to their credit
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eliemichel «”¯WebFinger is about making email addresses more valuable, by letting people attach public metadata to them.”¯Â»
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eliemichel So WebFinger fundamentally is a way to give back info
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barnabywalters the indieweb rejects email addresses as a person’s primary identifier on the web, making webfinger not very much use
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eliemichel and it is used to give some endpoints now
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barnabywalters eliemichel: webfinger, via XRD (or some such XML format for linking to things)
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eliemichel I don't say IW should use WebFinger. I just say that WebFinger is not exactly a mecanism
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eliemichel It is nearer from h-cards
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barnabywalters webfinger is a discovery mechanism, not a format
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eliemichel but it has been essentially used inside the eponym mecanism
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eliemichel well, you're right
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eliemichel sry, not fully confortable with English
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barnabywalters eliemichel: not a problem :) whilst indiewebcamp is primarily english-centric there are plenty of non-native speakers here
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barnabywalters eliemichel: do you have a personal site? add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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eliemichel yep, http://exppad.com/
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eliemichel but I did not implement any of IndieWeb protocols for now
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ben_mobile hey guys
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eliemichel barnabywalters: how can I edit this list?
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eliemichel ben_mobile: hi =)
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barnabywalters eliemichel: log in to the wiki using your personal domain — you’ll need to add a little bit of markup so you can use it as your identity: http://indiewebcamp.com/How_to_set_up_web_sign-in_on_your_own_domain
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barnabywalters there’s also http://indiewebcamp.com/How_to_set_up_web_sign-in_on_your_own_domain-fr
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eliemichel Mmh I already added websignin =)
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eliemichel I forgot it =P
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eliemichel but, adding links is enough?
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barnabywalters eliemichel: yep! that should enable you to log in on any site supporting indieauth/web sign in
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eliemichel it uses the api provided by FB/Twitter and co?
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eliemichel or just check the links?
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eliemichel oh
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eliemichel okey
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eliemichel checking the links is enough
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bigbluehat eliemichel: barnabywalters: would love your feedback on the thoughts here https://github.com/BigBlueHat/userinfo/wiki and here userinfo.me
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eliemichel since it shows that I can access my GitHub account for exemple
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bigbluehat tantek_: I finally wrote up a wiki for you :) ^^
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eliemichel bigbluehat: I like the idea of using urls with an @
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eliemichel but barnabywalters just said "the indieweb rejects email addresses as a person’s primary identifier on the web"
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eliemichel why?
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bigbluehat yeah, I'd like to know why too
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bigbluehat they already are peoples primary identifier on the web :)
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bigbluehat we just try and hide them
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barnabywalters eliemichel bigbluehat: http://indiewebcamp.com/Why_web_sign-in#Why_not_email
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bigbluehat yeah for "Why not personal domain email?" redundancy seems to be the only real "cost"
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barnabywalters bigbluehat: userinfo is the best idea I’ve seen so far for doing email -> actual web content discovery
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bigbluehat which is less than remembering your OpenID URL or even understanding what that is...for grandma
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bigbluehat thanks :)
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bigbluehat it needs it's own header, probably
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bigbluehat hoping to pitch it to the IETF soonish
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bigbluehat you can use it with my email address--which is in the demos on userinfo.me
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bigbluehat ...with curl :)
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bigbluehat it doesn't use the `UserInfo:` header yet--just the Basic Auth hack
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bigbluehat but I'll be refactoring it to prefer that, posting some python code, and building some XHR-based clients for it in the coming months
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bigbluehat I pitch it ever year at restfest.org :)
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bigbluehat so it usally gets some love right about now
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ben_thatmustbeme hey guyss
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ben_thatmustbeme my attempt at mobile worked for about 2 seconds before I lost signal
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ben_thatmustbeme while i don't disagree with the idea that personal domain is better than personal domain e-mail the 3 examples for section one are pretty much the same thing said 3 times
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ben_thatmustbeme http://indiewebcamp.com/Why_web_sign-in##redundant
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eliemichel #redundanception =P
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eliemichel The email format begins to be interesting if the domain is owned by a family for example
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eliemichel father.family.com instead of father@family.com can do the job, but this is more semantically coherent to use a @
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exppad.com edited /IRC_People (+50) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme its not really much different plus you get the ability to host far more information at a web address, plus you get control over contact or not
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ben_thatmustbeme my domain may not publish my contact info if I don't want it to
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ben_thatmustbeme everyone tries to hide their e-mail address for that very reason
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ben_thatmustbeme !tell aaronpk re google domains. Know that if you register there you cannot transfer out for 60 days after you purchase.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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eliemichel Why don't IW use Atom/RSS?
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eliemichel I like my good old RSS reader =)
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ben_thatmustbeme its redundant. the idea is that microformats marks up the readable html to be parsable by a reader
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ben_thatmustbeme there is nothing saying you can't but its the DRY principal. Why have two copies of the same content
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eliemichel I see
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@citizenk RT @wiobyrne: This is awesome - Remember Google’s Wave? With Sandstorm, it’s easy to use again #indieweb http://gigaom.com/2014/08/21/remember-googles-wave-thanks-to-sandstorm-its-easy-to-start-using-again/ http://t.co… (twitter.com/_/status/504278439604412416)
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eliemichel my approach was more: Everything starts with the RSS feed. Then my blog is just a feed reader configured to read that feed
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eliemichel it allow readers to load only the info that interest them
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ben_thatmustbeme take a look at http://indiewebcamp.com/Principles It may help explain some of it. The second item in there is kind of this very point. Its about humans first, machines second. not the other way around
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eliemichel okey
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eliemichel looks like a good idea indeed
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ben_thatmustbeme interesting approach, so you use some Get values on your main page to filter content?
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eliemichel ?
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eliemichel Oh wait, is there a service somewhere that extract info from h-entry to convert them to rss feeds?
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eliemichel Or do I have to add it to my todo list?
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, i think there is, i haven't used it
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ben_thatmustbeme doesn't hurt to have more implementations :P
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ben_thatmustbeme let me see if i can find it
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eliemichel I'm currently working on a feed reader. I gonna add h-entries to its todo-list too
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eliemichel (https://github.com/FreederTeam/Freeder)
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ben_thatmustbeme oh that would be excellent
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eliemichel Is there already feed readers that handle it?
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ben_thatmustbeme i know a few people have been working on them. looking at /projects I see that is a selfoss mod to parse microformats
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ben_thatmustbeme i could swear someone has a mf2->rss service, but i cannot find it at the moment
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kylewm try http://waterpigs.co.uk/services/microformats-to-atom/
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eliemichel kylewm: thx
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eliemichel but it does not include the content of article if it comes from a simple list of posts
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eliemichel I mean, with that page for example http://christopheducamp.com/
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eliemichel the resulting Atom feed does not include the core articles
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eliemichel and I believe if there was many pages of entries, only the first one would be displayed
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eliemichel is there a mecanism in h-entry to be able to recover a full feed?
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eliemichel with all entries, and full entries
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eliemichel this is, imho, the main issue of the human-first approach
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@bretolius @joindiaspora how about #indieweb webmentions and microformats? (twitter.com/_/status/504283968921817088)
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ben_thatmustbeme eliemichel, its really no different than if someone makes an RSS fee that doesn't have any more than the titles and links to the articles. That sample site isn't very user centric (imo) putting just links on the main page seems silly.
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eliemichel yep but putting a list off all full articles is not really more readable
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eliemichel of*
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eliemichel I'm not really convinced by the human first approach
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bret eliemichel i use a traditional rss/atom reader every day (feedbin/reeder). there are some issues with feeds however
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eliemichel The machine that generate the page for the human get some raw data
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bret i have to maintain a separate representation of my data
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bret which is a DRY violation
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eliemichel there is no problem with sharing this raw data with other machines imho
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bret I have to maintain invisible metadata, which tends to get out of sync with my main feed for the humans ;)
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bret eliemichel its not a problem, just a hassle since I have to generate a secondary, invisible side file
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eliemichel bret: I had the same problem, but if you generate your human page directly from the RSS feed there is no more DRY violation
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bret eliemichel I can't because I use a static site generator
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bret that would require some serious retooling
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eliemichel indeed
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bret i like publishing human consumable data, and simply describe that so that machines can read it too
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eliemichel but from where I am, using h-entries require some serious retooling too
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eliemichel I understant well the human-first approach
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eliemichel this is a good idea
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bret and the provide the machine only feed through a transoforming service
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eliemichel but not without issues
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eliemichel it leads to useless computation
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bret so i am still in the same state, but publishing for people comes first. so maybe it comes down to philosophy
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bret eliemichel i posted this a little while back http://bret.io/2014/06/11/openid-for-indieauth/
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eliemichel I think I gonna write some paragraph about why I'm not convinced by the human first approach, although I don't dislike it.
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bret join team human! :)
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bret computes just do the transform, even if you manage everything behind the scenes with machine first data serialization formats, ultimately its turning into light on a screen (or sound etc)
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eliemichel yes but doing a transform for undoing it directly is a watse of computation
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bret computers dont care :p
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eliemichel Machine 1 generate a page with a h-entry from raw data and then Machine 2 get the same raw data from the page
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bret thats the whole point!
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eliemichel devs care
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bret yeah thats where microformats come in, it turns the page into json or xml or whatever
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eliemichel What I like in IndieWeb is that it takes into account devs since it is designed to be implemented by each person individually
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bret http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbret.io%2F2014%2F06%2F11%2Fopenid-for-indieauth%2F
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eliemichel that's nice, but page cut are not the same for machines than for humans
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eliemichel where it becomes tricky is when the machine have to do several requests to build the feed back
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bret microformats has implied properties, so literally having a list of posts that have the correct html classes parse to an ordered array
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bret which can be easily transformed to any other kind of feed
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bret im a total junior dev and even I have managed this :) https://github.com/bcomnes/iwc-log-feed/blob/master/views/atom.jade
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bret thats transforming the irc logs (uF formattted) into an atom feed
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bret excuse the Jade template language... was experimenting with that
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eliemichel it is understandable ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm sure my site will break a few parsers since in reality the hentry items are not in chronological order
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bret what order are you putting them in?
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bret you could always add chronological display on another page if you wanted that
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bret or add sorting parameters to your urls
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aaronpk good morning!
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Loqi aaronpk: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 1 hour, 53 minutes ago: re google domains. Know that if you register there you cannot transfer out for 60 days after you purchase.
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: I think that is true for any registrar, it's an ICANN rule IIRC
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ben_thatmustbeme ahh, never noticed before
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ben_thatmustbeme there are so few options in google domains thus far though it made it noticable
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rascul i got in the google domains thing, but there's nothing there to interest me compared to gandi
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, i figured i'd order one just for the hell of it
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ben_thatmustbeme get an honest review of it that way
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ben_thatmustbeme nothing special
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ben_thatmustbeme but I now own broberts.us
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rascul google doesn't have any of my domains at this time
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ben_thatmustbeme hmmm, maybe i should get thatmustbe.us too
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rascul do you have thatmustbe.me ?
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah
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ben_thatmustbeme ben.thatmustbe.me
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ben_thatmustbeme is my page
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rascul i thought that's what it was
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@mattepp @aaronpk @bretolius I'm absolutely there in spirit. We're gradually reorienting Rocket Lift to be essentially an indieweb services company. (twitter.com/_/status/504303317791420416)
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@mattepp @aaronpk @bretolius Perhaps see you in IRC during future Homebrew meetups (tho not this week). And for sure at Indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/504303456341852160)
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bret rascul the interesting thing about google domains is that everyone who has a gmail account now has an account with a domain register
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bret This: https://twitter.com/mattepp/status/504303317791420416 :D
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@mattepp @aaronpk @bretolius I'm absolutely there in spirit. We're gradually reorienting Rocket Lift to be essentially an indieweb services company. (twitter.com/_/status/504303317791420416)
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bret thats very good news! mattepp is a wordpress core contributor. Can't wait to see what he comes up with for wordpress
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eliemichel 18:19 < bret> you could always add chronological display on another page if you wanted that
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eliemichel bret: isn't it some kind of repetition
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eliemichel ?
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bret it depends on how you want to look at it or implement it.
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eliemichel The difference between making a special page with full ordered articles and h-entries inside it and making a simple Atom feed is not large
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bret if your site can sort things, then its a matter of a sorting param
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eliemichel as for rss feeds
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bret if its going to be feed like, why make it invisible?
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eliemichel what is invisible??
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "invisible" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=invisible
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eliemichel Loqi: no thanks ^^
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bret atom/rss xml feeds are invisible unless you have a tool to detect and consume them. these tools are not included in browsers anymore
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eliemichel what about a simple RSS button”¯?
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eliemichel like on almost all site using RSS
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bret a simple rss button is just an a tag, why link to a page that the browser cant display?
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eliemichel well, it's not completely true, I noticed that a lot of sites does not show any button
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eliemichel you can link to a page that the browser can read
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bret we need to evolve how atom/rss feeds work
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eliemichel with a link in it to the feed
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bret h-feeds are an effort to do just that
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eliemichel that the feed reader will follow
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eliemichel I don't think h-entries are an enhancement of traditionnal feeds
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eliemichel this is just a phylosophically different approach
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eliemichel philo*
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bret i still publish an atom feed
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bret but will be switching away from the direct publishing of it soon
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bret i'll still have the meta information on how to get atom off my site
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eliemichel which means?
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bret it works the same, but I only have to worry about my html
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bret i dont have to edit my html template and xml templates when creating new post types
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bret microformats has not been used to enhance readers that much yet. its been primarily used to allow for cross site commenting and reply contexts
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eliemichel So why dropping Atom from the protocol list?
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eliemichel if the purpose is different
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bret were not, everyone still uses atom
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eliemichel I feel a little bit lost
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tantek_ Atom is no longer needed in general. And XML is out of fashion. ;)
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bret :) its okay welcome to the bleeding edge
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eliemichel XML is out of fashion…
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tantek_ xml--
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Loqi xml has -4 karma
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eliemichel does protocols care about that kind of fashion?
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aaronpk yeah JSON is the new hotness *rolls eyes*
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eliemichel I'm aware of that starting-to-be-old never-ending debate =P
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eliemichel XML vs JSON, VIM vs emacs, etc
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tantek_ bret, regarding that tweet you cited above.
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tantek_ what is Rocket Lift?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Rocket Lift" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Rocket+Lift
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bret eliemichel microformats has shown its advantages in threads like this: https://eschnou.com/entry/testing-indieweb-federation-with-waterpigscouk-aaronpareckicom-and--62-24908.html where compltely seprate personal site implementations can essentially hold public twitter like conversations with each other
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bret that works by creating a post on your site, marking up the post to indicate it is in reply to another url, then pinging that site to notify it.
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tantek_ eliemichel Atom is a dead end that stopped evolving in the mid-2000s.
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aaronpk eliemichel: I just found your post, very thorough! http://blog.exppad.com/article/really-social-syndication
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bret if the site consumes microformats, it can extract that information back into itself
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eliemichel aaronpk: I posted it 2 hours ago, it may contains a lot of typos…
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bret the goal is to allow people to have conversations with each other like they do on twitter or facebook, without those silos
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tantek_ time for this week's socialwg call!
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eliemichel I can't exactly see how h-entries enable twitter-like conversation
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aaronpk follow along with the IRC logs if you want here http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/2014-08-26
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aaronpk eliemichel: luckily there are tons of examples of how h-entry enables that
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bret eliemichel how else to you propose websites extract data from each other?
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tantek_ eliemichel h-entry + in-reply-to + webmention. presto.
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tantek_ most of us here are doing it
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bret with atom, I would have to generate xml files for every permalink
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eliemichel mmh no, just one single file
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eliemichel but it would be heavy…
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eliemichel okey, I start to see how webmention + h-entry drive to awesome results =)
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bret there is always going to be html for a website. how you generate that is up to you. this just takes the approach of making the html trivialy consumable by a parser
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eliemichel but do we agree that h-entry can't be a good way to syndicate full article lists as atom does
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eliemichel ?
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eliemichel When you webmention some page, the target will come here and extract the article from the page
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@rianmurnen Are “third-party cards” the exact opposite of #indieweb or a metaphor that can aid POSSE? http://www.subtraction.com/2014/08/26/what-is-a-card/ (twitter.com/_/status/504313161478991872)
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bret eliemichel it depends on the publisher just as it does with atom/rss. xml feeds have the same issues where publihers truncate full text to get more page views
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eliemichel but what if I just want to follow someone's posts?
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bret publishers*
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eliemichel yes but it truncate it according to machine-related issues
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eliemichel not human-related ones
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eliemichel it could be truncated differently
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bret the truncation issue is equivalent as far as I can tell between atom and h-feed
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bret maybe Im not understanding?
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eliemichel I think I gonna draw something
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bret pictures++
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Loqi pictures has 1 karma
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bret eliemichel re following someones posts: for now just do as you always do: use your favorite reader or social network. i think the goals of indieweb style readers that barnaby and ben are developing is that you follow people by adding that persons domain name, with the added benefit that all of their social networks are identified on the site and can be used as auxiliary data sources. You follow people by their domain, not xml feeds. No more hunting
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bret around for rss buttons or unlisted feeds. Just point to a personal domain or social network profile url.
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bret since its actually supposed to be useful, i'm sure atom/rss feeds will be supported
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bret the goal is to follow people, not feeds. thats what made facebook and twitter so popular
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ben_thatmustbeme I think elimichel is pointing out the bit about not really getting a full history if you just follow their hfeed. It doesn't go all the way back, whereas rss/atom tend to go back much farther since you aren't concerned about display
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eliemichel mmh yes but I still want to be able to read Foo's articles in my feed reader
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tantek_ not any more. RSS/Atom tend to be bulkier so I for one have fewer items there than on my home page.
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eliemichel "following Foo's domain name" is too abstract for that purpose
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bret ben_thatmustbeme in my experience, that is never guaranteed with a feed
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aaronpk in my experience atom feeds tend to be much shorter, like 5 or 10 items
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tantek_ in general the data quality in feeds is crappier. fewer items, less accurate, truncated, all kinds of garbage.
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aaronpk at least with an h-feed you can look for a rel=prev link and follow that for past items
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eliemichel atom feed are not supposed to be full
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@caseorganic @mulderc @cyborgcamp @medialab Google Flights says $412 roundtrip. If you stay the weekend you could also attend #indiewebcamp at MIT! (twitter.com/_/status/504315512017281025)
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KartikPrabhu eliemichel: why is "following Foo's domain" too abstract?
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ben_thatmustbeme thats what I don't have, rel=prev
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: tantek_ left you a message 4 hours, 36 minutes ago: <p> is the wrong element for transclusion of someone else's text anyway. We already have <blockquote> for that. And it already has a "cite" attribute for referencing the source.
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KartikPrabhu yes ^
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eliemichel KartikPrabhu: éfollowing a domain" does not explain how to get articles from it
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bret KartikPrabhu for the same reason twitter and facebook include follow buttons... we can do that too though
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KartikPrabhu bret: yes
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KartikPrabhu that is how my current feed reader works anyway
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KartikPrabhu I put a domain name, it some magically how finds the Atom feeds
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eliemichel aaronpk: rel=prev exists for Atom too
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aaronpk have any readers consumed it?
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KartikPrabhu so I could put a domain name and it could osme magically how fin the h-feed
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tantek_ eliemichel - can you point to any actual examples?
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eliemichel aaronpk: nop ^^
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tantek_ eliemichel - Atom has a lot of (far too many, mostly hypothetical) features, no one actually uses them all in practice
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eliemichel KartikPrabhu: it's not magical, there is a link in it
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KartikPrabhu eliemichel: err yes I know ;)
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tantek_ so "exists for Atom too" is typically irrelevant (or at least hand-wavy)
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ben_thatmustbeme wow this has stirred things up this morning
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eliemichel you're right
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KartikPrabhu eliemichel: my home page links to my h-feed too
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KartikPrabhu and in fact they are just the usual nav links
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eliemichel wait, too many backlog =p
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KartikPrabhu not an extra link for my Atom
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ben_thatmustbeme i think h-feed just makes more sense. in the "follow ben.thatmustbe.me" it already knows what page to load, no need to go there and then try to find the atom/rss feen
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bret hehe :)
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eliemichel ben_thatmustbeme: it force your index to list all your articles
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eliemichel a link allow you to use your domain as endpoint without constraint about the human content
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KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: not really. my home page does not have all my articles but it has a rel-feed link to a hfeed page that does
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KartikPrabhu nothing atom about it
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bret im of the opinion that phones and computers are pretty super duper fast, so just show me the full content of your last 10 posts :)
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eliemichel KartikPrabhu: can I have a link to your page?
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ben_thatmustbeme needs to dive in to more specifics on all the mf2 goodness
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KartikPrabhu eliemichel: https://kartikprabhu.com/
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bret who is KartikPrabhu ?
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ben_thatmustbeme I kinda glossed over a lot of that to get in to implementation of other bits
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bret aww Loqi
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KartikPrabhu the nav links at the bottom have rel-feed links to h-feed pages. In fact Bridgy already consumes this to find original posts from POSSE post copies
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snarfed kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 41 karma
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KartikPrabhu yup ^
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ben_thatmustbeme is a h-freed assumed to be chronological?
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ben_thatmustbeme s/freed/feed/
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: is a h-feed assumed to be chronological?
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KartikPrabhu is out brb
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eliemichel ben_thatmustbeme: Don't think so
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eliemichel since it is not supposed to be exhaustive
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eliemichel you can suppose each entry is a separate feed
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eliemichel so that there is no reason they are ordoned
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eliemichel ordered*
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ben_thatmustbeme because of the design i wanted on my site, i ended up having 1 feed that has my latest 10 posts and latest 10 notes after that
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ben_thatmustbeme or the other way around
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ben_thatmustbeme didn't know if that will break things
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eliemichel Dunno, but don't think so
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eliemichel it would be weired that such a liberal format force entries to be ordered
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aaronpk I think most examples of h-feed or lists of h-entries are ordered by publish date
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, i agree most are
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ben_thatmustbeme I'm still torn on that somewhat in how to handle it
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ben_thatmustbeme i see it as there are almost 2 feeds, notes/photos/minor bits vs posts/articles/ etc
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ben_thatmustbeme i could see subscribing to one and not the other
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eliemichel Would it be relevant to include h-entry micro-format to agregated data?
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eliemichel I mean, is in the articles that I did not write but that are in my feed reader
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bret eliemichel, im not sure. would you want a program to consume it in some way?
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eliemichel mmh
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eliemichel nop
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eliemichel you're right
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KartikPrabhu catches up
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eliemichel or maybe for some internal JS processing
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eliemichel but I don't need a wide spread std for that
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eliemichel just a local convention
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ben_thatmustbeme if you do include the markup you can tag them u-repost-of
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ben_thatmustbeme i could see people doing that on an aggregation site
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eliemichel ben_thatmustbeme: thx =)
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exppad.com edited /IRC_People (+53) "Add avatar to eliemichel entry" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: about the fragmention quote post. I agree, it is grossly over-thinking quotations and fragmentions too. In fact it would be much easier if your post publishing software saw a fragmention in the post and just fetched and inserted a <blockquote>
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Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/publish-on-your-own-site-syndicate-elsewhere---very-cool linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (webmention)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: was there a tweet associate with that post that I can @-reply to?
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KartikPrabhu tantek: exactly what I'm looking for right now
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KartikPrabhu i just follow pastry-box which does not come with any comments
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tantek oh man, benwerd is schooling @davewiner on POSSE. oh boy.
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KartikPrabhu https://twitter.com/sorpeen/status/503918135364579328
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@sorpeen Hacking the paragraph — building on @kevinmarks' idea of fragmentations: https://the-pastry-box-project.net/sorin-pintilie/2014-August-25 (twitter.com/_/status/503918135364579328)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: seems like KevinMarks is already on it
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eliemichel is it possible to sen webmentions manually?
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eliemichel I've not implemented it yet
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tantek eliemichel: yes! see the /webmention page for how to
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KevinMarks Yes, you can do it with curl
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eliemichel but I'd like to "say" that I mention sites
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Loqi KevinMarks: tantek left you a message 12 hours, 21 minutes ago: I encourage you to add a subsection for kevinmarks.com here and add your use-cases: http://indiewebcamp.com/template#Use_Cases
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eliemichel nice =)
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Loqi [mention] http://blog.exppad.com/article/really-social-syndication linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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KartikPrabhu 140 chars is not enough to say anythign useful!
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eliemichel \o/
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eliemichel indeed it is as simple as a http request
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KartikPrabhu yup! :)
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KartikPrabhu eliemichel: in fact you can create HTML forms for it like so: https://kartikprabhu.com/connection/webmentionsender
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I think I did a decent job at it :) https://twitter.com/t/status/504330171248549890
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@t @sorpeen no need to hack <p>; <blockquote> is for embedding others' text with "cite" attr to source. @kevinmarks+1. (ttk.me t4Xo1) (twitter.com/_/status/504330171248549890)
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eliemichel I think so
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tantek and didn't even use all 140 ;)
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eliemichel actually it's been a long time I need to refactor my whole blog engine
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KartikPrabhu tantek: damn your twitter fu!
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eliemichel that's why I was looking for some social protocole
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tantek KartikPrabhu: unfair advantage, been doing Twitter since 2006 ;)
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eliemichel and why I end up with 1. writing an article about it 2. adopting indieweb
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KartikPrabhu eliemichel: good. :) now keep posting :)
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tantek eliemichel: that's a good approach! documenting your thoughts and wants and needs first, then exploring!
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tantek eliemichel++
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Loqi eliemichel has 1 karma
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eliemichel ^^
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KartikPrabhu it seems funny that everytime someone sees a problem they jump to inventing a protocol... so strange
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tantek KartikPrabhu: do you mean format? ;)
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KartikPrabhu errr yes :P
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KartikPrabhu format/syntax/protocol/API
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eliemichel KartikPrabhu: I believe you know it: http://xkcd.com/927/
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tantek eliemichel: that's an optimistic appraisal
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KartikPrabhu ha yeah :)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: typically it's a result of ignorance/naïveté. Those who do not know about existing standards are doomed to reinvent them.
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eliemichel sometimes they know about it but it seems overcomplicated to them
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KartikPrabhu tantek in this case pf fragmention+quotes, those who knew the standards are doomed to reinvent them
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tantek e.g. that "hacking paragraph" post - clearly the author was so completely ignorant of <blockquote> that they didn't even mention it in their post!
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eliemichel but finally they end up with a more complicated solution…
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KartikPrabhu eliemichel: I don't think it is "over complicated" but "unfamiliar"
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eliemichel yep
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tantek eliemichel: the "end up with a more complicated solution" is usually an indicator of lack of expertise/skill/practice at designing standards. AKA newbie outcome.
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KartikPrabhu tantek: hmm you really think the author did not know about blockquote?
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tantek KartikPrabhu: occam's razor, ignorance rather than ignoring
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eliemichel tantek: that's exactly what I intented to mean ;)
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tantek to put it another way, designing *simple* standards is *very hard*
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tantek and typically requires failure and iteration :/
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KartikPrabhu tantek: you mean Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
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tantek KartikPrabhu: yes! thank you. :)
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eliemichel «”¯It seems that perfection is reached when there is nothing to remove rather than when there is nothing to add”¯Â»
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eliemichel — Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
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KartikPrabhu that too...
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KartikPrabhu speaking of "blockquotes" ;)
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eliemichel okey ^^
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eliemichel what article are u talking about actually?
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KartikPrabhu wait finidng link for you
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KartikPrabhu https://the-pastry-box-project.net/sorin-pintilie/2014-August-25
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eliemichel thx
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/rsvp/facebook/27301982/716026638451334/506306793 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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aaronpk so InstaCart just launched in portland
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aaronpk (this is relevant, I swear)
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aaronpk and as part of the site/app, you can create grocery lists for specific recipes, like my breakfast tacos https://www.instacart.com/lists/VHi3dPw/breakfast-tacos
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aaronpk which means now I'm going to have to PESOS this list to my site
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tantek aaronpk, perhaps you can ask them to support importing h-recipe from your own site
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aaronpk well it's all tied to specific product IDs at the specific store, so not so sure that would work
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aaronpk and it's also not necessarily a recipe, it could be a list of household items
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tantek silo product IDs? how quaint
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aaronpk not even silo product IDs, store-specific IDs
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aaronpk like, these specific brand of eggs at this store at this location
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aaronpk not just "eggs"
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tantek when in practice, recipes have no such need for such specificity, and are just fine with just "eggs"
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aaronpk that's what i'm saying, these are not recipes
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aaronpk these are lists of things you can buy on the site
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KevinMarks That's an odd choice when there are upc barcodes
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aaronpk with little "add" buttons so you can add them to your cart
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aaronpk maybe they use UPCs? /me checks
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aaronpk nope looks like instacart ID https://www.instacart.com/store/items/1353434
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aaronpk oh weird that isn't public
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KevinMarks I was using a diet tracking app that assumed every food had a barcode. Which didn't really work with fresh produce
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aaronpk ha
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tantek you know what also doesn't have barcodes? the produce I can (and have) grow(n) in my garden.
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tantek indie produce!
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aaronpk made an indie smoothie yesterday. well, indie kale anyway
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gRegor` p href? lulz
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gRegor` is catching up
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tantek gRegor`, KartikPrabhu what's even funnier about that p[href] proposal is that "href on every element" was one of the "features" of XHTML2. And I doubt the author even knew that either.
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gRegor` I did not know that either
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tantek that reminds me I need to +1 something bret said
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gRegor` (I only skimmed that p href article. tl;dr)
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tantek ah yes this: https://twitter.com/bretolius/status/504283968921817088
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@bretolius @joindiaspora how about #indieweb webmentions and microformats? (twitter.com/_/status/504283968921817088)
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gRegor` And in response, bret was invited to join a *drumroll* discussion group
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tantek gRegor`: I think you mean a discussion *silo* ;)
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tantek welcome back sandro!
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gRegor` Some people really balk at the whole "actively publishing on your own site" criteria. https://www.loomio.org/d/4Z28QFTn/social-web-working-group-w3c
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sandro hey, tantek
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tantek how are we looking for IndieWebCamp Cambridge at MIT? were you able to book a room for 2014-10-10..11?
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gRegor` On the plus side, their discussion group/silo is open source. But still not on their own domain.
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gRegor` Re: loomio
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sandro Yes, tantek, when we first talked about this I reserved a room that's rated for 48 people in chairs.
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tantek that's great!
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tantek ok we should add that to the wiki page
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tantek are there 2-3 next door / nearby breakout rooms for separate barcamp sessions?
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@t @joindiaspora please support webmention & #microformats. Theyre simpler = more devs can do, more sites/networks compat (ttk.me t4Xo2) (twitter.com/_/status/504347243391246336)
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tantek sandro - which building and address? I want to update http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge "Where:"
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tantek date on the wiki is correct - 2014-10-11..12
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tantek rather than what I wrote above. 2014-10-10 is CyborgCamp (also at MIT, but at Media Lab)
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tantek.com edited /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (-64) "/* Official Guest List */ move venue capacity to Participants section to bring count closer to where people add themselves, update capacity to 48 per sandro confirmation of venue, and recount signed-up and remaining numbers" (view diff)
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tommorris nudges some Bostonians to go.
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tantek works on updating the Guest List to be more like UK
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tantek.com edited /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (+105) "/* Official Guest List */ update header table to be "have a personal site" vs. "want a personal site"" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2014/UK/Guest_List (+18) "emphasize have vs want" (view diff)
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tantek sandro, which building?
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tantek (at MIT)
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tantek.com edited /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (-63) "/* IndieWebCamp Cambridge 2014 */ location is MIT, confirmed with Sandro" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (+12) "/* Official Guest List */ the June" (view diff)
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tantek bret - did you look at the joindiaspora forum link they posted?
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sandro tantek, Stata Center, https://calendar.csail.mit.edu/seminar_rooms/32-D463
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tantek awesome
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tantek Sandro - 403 at that URL: "You are not Authorized / You are not authorized to access this page."
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tantek looks for a public URL for Stata Center and finds http://www.csail.mit.edu/news/stata
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tantek looks for any semblance of an address for Stata Center and fails to find one on MIT, including at link labeled "Building Address"
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tantek resorts to Yelp
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sandro the image seems to not be access controlled: https://calendar.csail.mit.edu/assets/setups/32-D463/seminar.jpg
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sandro Capacity: 48 chairs, 9 tables
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sandro Square Footage: 1170.14
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sandro Equipment:
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sandro lcd projector with 2 vga connections in floor boxes
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sandro ===
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tantek.com edited /2014/Cambridge (+77) "MIT Stata Center room D463" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (+108) "/* IndieWebCamp Cambridge 2014 */ MIT Stata Center" (view diff)
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tantek I've been in that room before - at the recent (June?) W3C AC meeting
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tantek sandro can we use any of the smaller nearby rooms for breakout sessions?
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tantek.com edited /2014/Cambridge (+200) "add photo of room" (view diff)
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tantek realizes that http://www.csail.mit.edu/news/stata has very old "news", e.g. from 2006-2007
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sandro tantek, yes, most of them are signed up around 1-3 pm, but there are a few in the building free.
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sandro There's a 30 person room free all day -- should I reserve it now?
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tantek that would be great
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tantek all day Saturday and Sunday?
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tantek the MIT site has very strange information architecture
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tantek non-trivial to find a permalink for a building
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snarfed aaronpk: light ping, https://github.com/aaronpk/indiewebcamp-irc-logs/pull/7 . (not urgent, obviously)
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aaronpk snarfed: oh yeah!
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tantek e.g. http://web.mit.edu/facilities/construction/completed/stata.html has no address, no map, nor link to one.
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tantek where's that xkcd
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tantek http://xkcd.com/773/
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sandro I thought the camp was Friday + Saturday (Oct 10, 11). Am I confused or has that changed? No one else has reserved any rooms in the building Sat or Sun; Friday is the only contended day.
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aaronpk hahaha forgot about that one
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sandro :-) :-)
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tantek sandro - sorry, the camp has always been Saturday Sunday Oct 11-12, *following* CyborgCamp which is Oct 10.
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tantek http://cyborgcamp.com/2014/08/cyborgcamp-mit/
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tantek uh snarfed, how did I like this twice? http://cyborgcamp.com/2014/08/cyborgcamp-mit/##Tantek
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aaronpk two different tweets included a link to that page
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aaronpk i still don't agree with how this works btw, since technically you liked the tweet, not that page
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tantek it still looks odd - I'd think even with that interpretation (of liking the page), the page would de-dup
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snarfed aaronpk: tantek: right. one tweet was cyborbcamp's, one was amber's
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snarfed aaronpk: true. it's a FAQ that i need to write up on https://www.brid.gy/about. hard because it's complex
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tantek wonders if by "usable campus map", xkcd implies a campus map where you can permalink to buildings
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tantek oh dear: https://whereis.mit.edu/?zoom=16&lat=42.361612839999985&lng=-71.09056785999995&maptype=mit&go=32&open=object-32
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snarfed (aaronpk: summary: the only explicit way we have to differentiate posse tweets from mention tweets is u-syndication, or *maybe* permashortcitation etc (debatable), both of which have extremely low adoption among bridgy users)
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tantek snarfed, there's also rel=me
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aaronpk I don't understand
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snarfed tantek: for sites yes, not for posts
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tantek snarfed, posts come from sites, ergo
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aaronpk this tweet links to cyborgcamp.com https://twitter.com/cyborgcamp/status/503686916194058240
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@cyborgcamp Announcing @cyborgcamp 2014 at @MIT @medialab! All day: Fri, Oct 10, 2014. http://cyborgcamp.com/2014/08/cyborgcamp-mit/ #cyborgcamp (twitter.com/_/status/503686916194058240)
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snarfed tantek: huh? i wouldn't expect to look for or use a rel=me link on a post that points to an individual tweet permalink, or vice versa
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aaronpk if someone favorites that tweet, it should not be generating a favorite of the cyborgcamp.com link
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tantek thought he documented this in the discovery algorithm already
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snarfed aaronpk: that's a hard line to draw. when *would* you expect a twitter favorite to result in a u-like-of then?
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tantek when the tweet is a POSSE copy of the original
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aaronpk oh I see the problem... yeah it needs u-syndication or the permashortcitation
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sandro Okay, so if it's Saturday/Sunday, we have the whole building, I think. Pondering whether there are better rooms.
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tantek sandro - that's a good room
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sandro okay....
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sandro I'll cancel the reserveration for Friday?
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tantek !tell caseorganic - confirming - IndieWebCamp Cambridge is 2014-10-11..12 right? the Sat/Sun *after* CyborgCamp on Friday?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell her that when I see her next
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snarfed aaronpk: exactly! and those both have low adoption among bridgy users
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snarfed to be clear, this is entirely a bridgy product/policy choice. technically, we can implement anything we want. it's just where on the tradeoff i've come down so far. definitely open to changing it in the future.
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tantek aaronpk, snarfed, no you can tell the difference because POSSE tweets come from a Twitter profile that the original site has rel=me linked to!
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tantek (and vice versa)
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snarfed tantek:true! good point. it's only a partial solution - KevinMarks has complained about bridgy interpreting non-posse tweets of his as posse - but still, it would definitely help. it's a good feature request.
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tantek snarfed - similar to I think how you're already doing this: http://indiewebcamp.com/posse-post-discovery
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tantek just found http://indiewebcamp.com/posse-post-discovery#.22Hidden.22_permalinks oh dear
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tantek lols a bit at the prospect of attaching a "ORIGINAL: URL" QR code as photo to POSSE'd tweets
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tantek snarfed, where is it documented that Bridgy treats any tweet etc. with a link to an original post as a POSSE copy?
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gonze.com edited /events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club (+38) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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snarfed tantek: i'm not sure it is. like i said before, it's a faq i need to write up, but i've procrastinated because the tradeoff and decision is a bit complex
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snarfed again, you're right that rel=me helps distinguish between different people, but that's actually the minority case. the common case is a tweet from the same author that *mentions* the post, but isn't a posse of it.
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KevinMarks_ Right, which is my common case
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snarfed hence using u-syndication/PSC to identify posse tweets, which i'm reluctant to do since adoption rates are low, so it would muzzle responses for lots of users
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KevinMarks_ Hm, could you distinguish by date?
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snarfed KevinMarks_: interesting. not a bad heuristic.
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KevinMarks_ Assume it's non-posse if the post is older
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KevinMarks_ That would catch my case
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snarfed KevinMarks_: true!
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tantek.com edited /original-post-discovery (+756) "/* Brainstorming */ add subheads, add POSSE copy domain approximation" (view diff)
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snarfed some older discussion on this is here: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/51 . i'll add to it.
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KevinMarks_ I don't mind you replicating my non-posse tweets back as comments BTW, it's just weird when the responses are replicated and the tweet isn't
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tantek.com edited /original-post-discovery (+23) "/* POSSE copy domain approximation */ terminology, bolding" (view diff)
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snarfed KevinMarks_: right. personally, i like the current behavior too.
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snarfed but it's obviously debatable
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KevinMarks_ http://epeus.blogspot.com/2013/06/how-apples-ios-fragmentation-problems.html has an example
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tantek.com edited /original-post-discovery (-3) "/* POSSE copy domain approximation */ more terminology" (view diff)
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tantek snarfed, here is more precise documentation of what I'm saying about using the POSSE profile rel=me link: http://indiewebcamp.com/original-post-discovery#POSSE_copy_domain_approximation
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KevinMarks_ Where I tweet a link in context and get favs and likes
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tantek in case that helps with opening a feature request issue for bridgy
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snarfed tantek: thanks! already exists, i'm capturing it in https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/51
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tantek oh right, because by doing http://indiewebcamp.com/original-post-discovery#POSSE_copy_domain_approximation then you can treat *other* references to the post as comments!
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tantek KevinMarks - how about a 24hr threshold - would that work for you?
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tantek i.e. any tweeting you do of your own posts more than 24hrs after you published your posts would be treated as *comments* on your own post rather than POSSE copies
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KevinMarks_ I think so. May miss some potential comments
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KevinMarks_ Also, it would be nice if bridgy embedded the tweet the first time it was faved/liked
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tantek what do you mean by "bridgy embedded the tweet"?
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KevinMarks_ See that post, where it shows the fav/likes but not the tweet that got them
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KevinMarks_ As compared to http://epeus.blogspot.com/2013/04/forking-spooning-or-knifing.html
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KevinMarks_ Where the conversation with Nina shows up, but without the linking tweet that started it
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KevinMarks_ In both cases, my tweet should be a comment
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tantek.com edited /original-post-discovery (+486) "/* POSSE copy domain approximation */ 24hr mitigation" (view diff)
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tantek KevinMarks, snarfed http://indiewebcamp.com/original-post-discovery#24hr_mitigation
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tantek.com edited /original-post-discovery (+6) "/* 24hr mitigation */ more recent" (view diff)
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tantek KevinMarks: looks like the 24hr rule would work for your examples
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tantek another solution for you is to include rel=syndication markup explicitly
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tantek e.g. on http://epeus.blogspot.com/2013/06/how-apples-ios-fragmentation-problems.html you have also published on <a href="http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/09/how-apples-ios-fragmentation-problems-distort-design-thinking/" rel="alternate">TechCrunch</a>
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tantek which should be also published on <a href="http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/09/how-apples-ios-fragmentation-problems-distort-design-thinking/" rel="syndication">TechCrunch</a>
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snarfed thanks guys! summarized the bridgy specific question at https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/51#issuecomment-53488903
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tommorris.org created /geocities (+2075) "Requiescant in pace." (view diff)
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@kopfzeiler Bemerkenswerte Entwicklung, auch semantisch: Self-hosting heißt jetzt #IndieWeb. http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/04/25/indiewebcamps_create_tools_for_a_new_internet.html (twitter.com/_/status/504371086163980289)
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tantek KevinMarks, and then you could add another link after that: <p>And <a rel="syndication" href="https://twitter.com/...">tweeted</a>.</p>
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@tommorris @adactio you may enjoy http://indiewebcamp.com/geocities (twitter.com/_/status/504371236227788800)
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tantek.com moved /geocities to /GeoCities "canonical capitalization"
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tantek.com created /Geocities (+23) "r" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /GeoCities (+11) "<dfn>" (view diff)
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@gasull I’d love to see @OpenBazaar on @SandstormIO! https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sandstorm-io-personal-cloud-platform/x/5184124 #bitcoin #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/504371787015389184)
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tantek.com edited /GeoCities (+94) "was, terminology, tend to, see also" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+313) "/* 2014 */ moving Fotopedia to past" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (-312) "/* Upcoming */ moving Fotopedia to past" (view diff)
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tantek wow http://blog.fotopedia.com doesn't even respond
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tantek er, not found
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tantek sad tombstone: http://www.fotopedia.com/
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gRegor` I noticed that
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gRegor` Same for fotopedia.com
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KartikPrabhu it does have a nice animated header so that counts for somethign right?
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gRegor` Ugh, sites that only work with www.
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bobJ /nick johnthomas
wolftune, lttlman, pauloppenheim, j12t, frzn, SRCR_, PMurphs, valan, perturbed, Phyks, sdboyer_, rhiaro_, PMurphs_, jtzl, hodge, ellton, trodrigues, sdboyer__, irdan, emmak_, sdboyer, jonnybarnes, ryana, voxpelli, benward__, kylewm, michel_v, CaptainCalliope, aranasaurus, mattl and Erkan_Yilmaz joined the channel
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tantek.com edited /POSSE_to_Facebook (+1246) "subheads for other indieweb examples inline, add self as using Bridgy" (view diff)
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tantek who else here POSSE's to FB besides those of us listed here: http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE_to_Facebook
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emmak_ tantek: i am posse'ing to FB via bridgy
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tantek emmak_: cool. add yourself and when you started (I suspect you likely started doing direct POSSE to FB via Bridgy before I did) http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE_to_Facebook#Bridgy_Publish
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KevinMarks_ How do I delete a retweet I made in twitter? Can't find a button
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tantek same button - click retweet again and it unretweets
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KevinMarks_ Ah right. I was looking at it in my timeline and the button wasn't there
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notenoughneon.com edited /POSSE_to_Facebook (+319) "/* Bridgy Publish */ add self as using bridgy" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/tommorris/504371236227788800/11628 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/geocities (webmention)
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@fymmie RT @kopfzeiler: Bemerkenswerte Entwicklung, auch semantisch: Self-hosting heißt jetzt #IndieWeb. http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/04/25/indiewebcamps_create_tools_for_a_new_internet.html (twitter.com/_/status/504410946048385024)
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tantek emmak_: does your server automatically call Bridgy Publish to POSSE to FB for every post?
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tantek or do you use the Bridgy Publish UI to manually POSSE to FB some posts?
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emmak_ its an option on my own posting UI
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tantek oh cool - that sounds ideal. like a checkbox? and then your server does it for you automatically?
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emmak_ yes its a checkbox, and everything is handled automatically
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@LongHandPixels @rubenlightfoot @aral I like the sentiment of the piece, but it’s on medium. How is that not a candy house? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/504413501368987648)
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tantek.com edited /POSSE_to_Facebook (+90) "/* Notenoughneon via Bridgy */ using a checkbox in the [[Neonblog]] UI to enable it at posting time" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu oh man totally got called out on that one by LongHandPixels ^^
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tantek.com edited /POSSE_to_Facebook (+142) "/* Tantek via Bridgy */ plan to make it automatic, note more manual steps" (view diff)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: hah - and nice analogy too - the Candy House.
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tantek even more evocative than "silo"
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tantek and more applicable to all those fancy new startups
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KartikPrabhu tantek: the Candy House terminology is from the original Medium article! I want to reply with "oh snap"
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tantek I saw. We should get https://longhandpixels.net/ on here
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KartikPrabhu he seems to already know about #indieweb, so maybe someone who knows him could invite
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KartikPrabhu tantek: err he is already on IRC as luxagraf! http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Luxagraf.net :P
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KartikPrabhu same person 2 names
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KartikPrabhu err sites
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tantek and two twitters
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KartikPrabhu yeah