#indiewebcamp 2014-08-30

2014-08-30 UTC
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tantek Loqi, please playback my messages for me.
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Loqi tantek: aaronpk left you a message 2 hours, 12 minutes ago: this is relevant to the email discussion earlier: http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2010/01/27/2/
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tantek :)
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tantek KevinMarks, aaronpk, KartikPrabhu that entire blog post read like "We at Yahoo have zero confidence in our technical leadership in the industry, so we're going to submit to cargo cult fragile ephemeral single-page app fashionable frameworks"
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aaronpk srsly
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KartikPrabhu but but "isomorphic single page apps" imma right!
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aaronpk clever use of PHP anonymous functions if I do say so myself https://github.com/aaronpk/php-mf2-instagram-shim#timezone
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tantek it was like a big giant "In case you weren't sure, we have zero technical innovation leadership, just to be clear, in case you might have thought otherwise, e.g. with our past innovations like YUI"
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I do not believe "isomorphic" adds anything to that phrase
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KartikPrabhu tantek: might point exactly :P
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tantek or if it does, I don't understand what it means beyond just "single page apps"
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KartikPrabhu my point*
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tantek oh ok, just an example of /bulshytt - that's fine.
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KartikPrabhu jargon throwing for jargon throwing
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aaronpk ok this timezone API has been the most useful thing ever https://github.com/esripdx/Timezone-API
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aaronpk useful because SO MANY SILO APIs completely forget about returning timezone information for dates
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aaronpk but there is often a lat/lng in a post, so I can go figure out the timezone based on that
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tantek neat!
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aaronpk just used it for instagram
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aaronpk because they return unix timestamps
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aaronpk woo now I get reply context for instagram posts http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/04/30/3/
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tantek aaronpk - oh cool - instead of just the URL!
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tantek why show "instagram.com/davystevenson Davy Stevenson" when you could simply show "Davy Stevenson" and link to instagram.com/davystevenson ?
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aaronpk yep! needed to make an instagram api -> h-entry shim https://github.com/aaronpk/php-mf2-instagram-shim
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tantek nice!
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aaronpk I made the decision to show both the domain and real name of people everywhere
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aaronpk it's less important / more clunky for silo URLs
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aaronpk but makes some sense for indieweb domains
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tantek yeah - makes sense for indieweb domains because they are often different and name like - we know each other by our URLs
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tantek but not for silo domains
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tantek they don't deserve to be shown, just linked
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aaronpk it's also somewhat a matter of trust. because if you made an h-entry on tantek.com with an author name of "barnaby" then I would only be displaying barnaby
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aaronpk the same is true for silo profiles though, which happens a lot on twitter
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aaronpk I have several friends who change their display name on twitter daily, usually to completely unrelated things
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tantek oh yeah I think klabnik does that
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aaronpk and in some cases, twitter only shows the display name, not username, which is super confusing cause I don't know who it is
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aaronpk and a more malicious version of that would be to set your twitter display name to "waterpigs.co.uk" which would really trip things up
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aaronpk so anyway that's a long way of saying why I show both the URL of the author as well as the name
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tantek.com edited /reply-context (+369) "of silo posts / Instagram, shim" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk, started this with your example: http://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context#of_silo_posts
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aaronpk oh thanks
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tantek took a bit of thinking as to where to stick it to make it useful just when someone might be looking for it
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tantek which I figured was when they're implementing reply-contexts
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tantek this is the example of the person I know who changes their display name often: https://twitter.com/steveklabnik
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aaronpk ah yeah he's probably the person I notice most often in my stream who does that
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tantek I like Twitter's styling of [icon] name @-alias - where alias is in the smaller grey text
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aaronpk although ironically the second tweet in my current stream is someone else who did that
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/uploads/twitter-username-20140829-174618.png
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tantek um ok
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aaronpk they only show the name for the "retweeted by" text, but both name and username for the main author
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tantek ah
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tantek want to add to http://indiewebcamp.com/repost#Twitter ?
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aaronpk sure
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benatkin lots of activity in here!
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aaronpk speak of the deviled egg
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benatkin going to try to remote-attend the one in NYC :)
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tantek I just figure they keep tweaking the displays of these things, so when any one of us feels like we see something "interesting" that we should capture it
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tantek the one what?
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benatkin http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/NYC oops, a bit late for that
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aaronpk benatkin: lol did you know I was talking about you?
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benatkin no, and I still don't know :)
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aaronpk see my screenshot above :)
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benatkin haha
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benatkin I was just channel-changing on IRC
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tantek benatkin that was 2 months ago!
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benatkin tantek: 3 months ago, right?
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tantek 2 and 4
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benatkin ah
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benatkin found that other one :)
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2014-08-29-retweet.png]]""
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aaronparecki.com edited /repost (+437) "/* Twitter */ add 2014 example of retweet in stream" (view diff)
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aaronpk benatkin: now you are captured forever in the wiki
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benatkin suite
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aaronparecki.com edited /reply-context (+412) "/* of silo posts */ reformat section to list more shim tools" (view diff)
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benatkin there should be a note somewhere about people who idle in IRC for months at a time without checking it
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benatkin (not really)
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tantek hey benatkin - add yourself to indiewebcamp.com/irc-people so you show up with a link and image in the logs! e.g. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-29
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benatkin.com edited /IRC_People (+53) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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aaronpk yay
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@KennithAsh Changing tweets since 2007 #Changingideas Truth has an edit button #OwnYourData were all just cheap products in someone elses database. (twitter.com/_/status/505520656994566144)
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benatkin.com edited /User:Benatkin.com (+85) "wow such doge" (view diff)
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benatkin added a link to my indiewebcamp profile to the sidebar of my web page http://benatkin.com/
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aaronpk good idea
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tantek hey just found this: http://www2.uncp.edu/home/acurtis/NewMedia/SocialMedia/SocialMediaHistory.html re: /history and /site-deaths
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aaronpk wow
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tantek.com edited /history (+81) "/* See Also */ uncp.edu reference" (view diff)
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kylewm !tell acegiak your tagged people with class="h-card u-url" parse a little wonky; my guess is that you don't want the u-url in there. good news is it helped me find a bug in bridgy posse-post-discovery :)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@jimgroom RT @grandeped: Symphony or Cacophony? Cracking the Code of Tool Selection in MOOCs http://www.edugeekjournal.com/2014/08/29/symphony-or-cacophony-cracking-the-code-of-tool-selection-in-moocs/ > Liking indieweb push tools a lot (twitter.com/_/status/505534722387480576)
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KevinMarks Apparently Isomorphic is a term for node and client side fungibility http://isomorphic.net/
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kylewm and if you write in clojurescript, you can have homoiconic isomorphic single page apps
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kylewm !tell snarfed, npdoty Publish to Tumblr is a great idea, might as well add backfeed at the same time too right? :P
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm Bridgy is turning into IFTTT, $30m
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kylewm s/$30m/for much less than $30m
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benatkin :)
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benatkin found out via https://twitter.com/Dogebrarian/status/505489247991001088 that a million dollars has been granted to study Internet memes
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@Dogebrarian very such NSF grantings to study memes? dogebrarian such approvesvia @TheMarySue http://www.themarysue.com/meme-study-indiana/ https://twitter.com/Dogebrarian/status/505489247991001088/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/505489247991001088)
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benatkin anyone know of an IndieWeb thing that puts impact text on an image so people can host their own memes?
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benatkin ooh https://plugins.trac.wordpress.org/browser/memeone/trunk
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kylewm i think there is a loqi plugin for that somewhere? (but not this loqi)
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Loqi grins profusely
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kylewm not you, Loqi
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acegiak benatkin: there's got to be an imagemagik thing for that
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Loqi acegiak: kylewm left you a message 2 hours, 2 minutes ago: your tagged people with class="h-card u-url" parse a little wonky; my guess is that you don't want the u-url in there. good news is it helped me find a bug in bridgy posse-post-discovery :)
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acegiak kylewm: whats the bestway to markup those quick tags?
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acegiak kylewm: updated now its just an anchor marked up with h-card
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kylewm acegiak: I'm not sure what is right or best, but I do the plain h-card thing too, e.g. https://kylewm.com/note/2014/08/14/2
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@BorgosMN I am testing out the Twitter plugin for a new #indieweb social platform called Known. (twitter.com/_/status/505569714492293120)
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@MNNORML RT @BorgosMN: I am testing out the Twitter plugin for a new #indieweb social platform called Known. (twitter.com/_/status/505570122354794496)
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KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: accidently sent a bunch of webmentions to your site... Also one legit one from this: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/ben-marginalia-works
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kartikprabhu.com created /twitter_annotations (+283) "stub page" (view diff)
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kartikprabhu.com edited /twitter_annotations (+4) "/* See Also */ listify" (view diff)
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@fionajharvey RT @jimgroom: RT @grandeped: Symphony or Cacophony? Cracking the Code of Tool Selection in MOOCs http://www.edugeekjournal.com/2014/08/29/symphony-or-cacophony-cracking-the-code-of-tool-selection-in-moocs/ > Liking indieweb p… (twitter.com/_/status/505680219865645056)
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retout.co.uk edited /2014/UK/Guest_List (+213) "/* Participants */ Add myself" (view diff)
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retout.co.uk edited /2014/UK/Guest_List (+0) "/* Participants */ Fix alphabetization" (view diff)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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indie-visitor sseaurchin
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tantek_ just joined from a /FxOS phone on WiFi using the beta logs
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tantek_ and it actually works a lot faster than IPS and is A Lot faster wow
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tantek_ s/IPS/iOS
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Loqi tantek_ meant to say: and it actually works a lot faster than iOS and is A Lot faster wow
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tantek_ No weird jerky scrolling or anything
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tantek_ let's see if switching tabs works
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tantek_ cool
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tantek_ home screen and back works
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tantek_ lock screen, unlock and reopen Firefox also works (which does not stay connected on iOS)
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tantek_ good morning #indiewebcamp!
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tantek_ trying again
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tantek_ interesting. my browser got in a state where I could still type to the channel 07:45 07:49 but the websocket connection had dropped so the page didn't display what I'd typed until I reloaded
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tantek_ huh and there it happened again. pretty sure that went to the channel but it didn't display in my browser
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@jmenglund03 RT @BorgosMN: I am testing out the Twitter plugin for a new #indieweb social platform called Known. (twitter.com/_/status/505741553089118208)
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tantek interesting - that @BorgosMN account is someone apparently running for Minnesota state attorney general.
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tantek I'm quite curious how they got hooked up withknown.com ;)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I think someone came in here once asking for a site for someone running for public office and got directed to benwerd
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tantek that does sound familiar
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KartikPrabhu can't find logs. don't know what to search :P
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tantek lol - I think we had that discussion two days ago
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tantek anyone here playing with Haskell? (I'm thinking maybe tommorris? glennjones?) looks like this just got started http://hackage.haskell.org/package/microformats2-types-0.1.0
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kylewm h-monad
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kylewm (that's what i would've called it :) )
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KartikPrabhu tantek: who manages repos in the indiewebcamp github? like accept PRs and stuff?
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tantek I think anyone here who has been somewhat productive that asks
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KartikPrabhu tantek: no not be a member. But if I add a repo to that account, I still have to manage it right?
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tantek I guess? I mean potentially any group organizer can I think. I'm not too familiar with how github orgs work.
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KartikPrabhu aah ok cool
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tantek and I don't see any docs about it on http://indiewebcamp.com/github
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KartikPrabhu maybe docs exist on github :P
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KartikPrabhu finds is great that tantek wants all information of the world on / :P
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kylewm what are you thinking about adding, KartikPrabhu?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "you thinking about adding, KartikPrabhu" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=you+thinking+about+adding%2C+KartikPrabhu
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: fragmentions.js
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kylewm oh my goodness Loqi, +? yourself
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kylewm Github project ownership is weird... like it's still mojombo/jekyll even though TPW doesn't manage it anymore
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kylewm It's sort of a tribute to the person who started it
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tantek KartikPrabhu: no I mean documentation of community use of github.com/indieweb
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kylewm aside: I experimented with hand-authoring a reply-context here https://kylewm.com/reply/2014/08/28/2/very-interesting-project-i-m-curious ... have a feeling i'm going to want an easy way to do that in the future
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snarfed kylewm: +1 to doing things by hand until it hurts
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Loqi snarfed: kylewm left you a message on 8/29 at 7:16pm: Publish to Tumblr is a great idea, might as well add backfeed at the same time too right? :P
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snarfed huh. maybe! …sure? i don't really know tumblr much, so i don't know what would be backfed…but i guess it has likes, reposts, etc, so sure!
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tantek snarfed kylewm +1 to doing things by hand until it hurts
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tantek (have certainly been doing a lot of that myself)
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snarfed hey speaking of which, tantek, have you ever considered hand authoring indie events on your own site?
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snarfed i always feel bad when i see you have to ask benwerd etc
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tantek snarfed - yes, I have started down that road several times
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snarfed tantek: only started down the road?
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tantek and each time I end up adding a bit more support to my display code to handle seeing an "h-event" instead of an "h-entry"
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tantek in storage
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snarfed i guess i meant fully authoring by hand, ie not (yet) writing any code
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tantek snarfed - I don't have a static site
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snarfed tantek: sure, but still, you can't author raw html inside your posts?
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tantek indeed - yet I see an event as a top level "h-event" , not inside an "h-entry"
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tantek an *indie event
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snarfed ah i see
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@Gatesense_IoT RT @JockelLohkamp: next wave for the #internet... @Gatesense_IoT @GOTOber #GETDBerlin @OuiShareLabs @AKQA #indieweb http://cre8tives.org/preparing-for-the-next-big-wave/ … (twitter.com/_/status/505751072481484800)
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snarfed sure. i guess you could do everything *except* the top level h-event part
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snarfed but understood
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tantek right
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tantek and I have plenty more personal use-cases too - like the "Speaking & Events" box in the bottom right of my home page
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tantek right it's just static and manually edited (and out of date) part of my home page index.html template
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tantek but ideally I'd like that autogenerated by /Falcon looking forward in time in my storage files
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snarfed oh man, great idea
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tantek (and right now Falcon only looks backward in time in my storage files)
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snarfed i haven't tried to do h-event either, but other than that i've been ok with my few hand-rolled indie events, e.g. https://snarfed.org/2014-06-16_homebrew-website-club-at-quip
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tommorris tantek: that looks cool. Haven't done much Haskell but will take a look.
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tantek but at least I *do* have support in Falcon for handling the situation where storage has future things in it
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tantek e.g. future post drafts
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tantek so that was one of the step ones toward indie events on my site. handling future things.
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snarfed nice!
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tantek and I got an incremental usable feature out that work too
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tantek so now that I've noticed my Speaking & Events box being so out of date I'm going to go update it - by hand
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tantek 1 week til IndieWebCampUK!!!
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tantek looks at https://snarfed.org/2014-06-16_homebrew-website-club-at-quip
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snarfed cringes
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kylewm does webmention.io handle RSVPs?
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snarfed kylewm: huh. i assume it accepts them
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tantek snarfed, I see what you did with the h-event inside the h-entry
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tantek my goal is to be able to post an event *without* having to put it inside an h-entry
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snarfed tantek: understood!
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snarfed mine too
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tantek I see indie events, and posts *about* events as different things
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snarfed totally!
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tantek oh ok cool
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snarfed …but until our server software supports it, it's nice to be able to do a manual halfway step like this
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tantek still pretty amazing that you got that all working, even by hand, with Bridgy backfeeding RSVPs from Facebook.
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snarfed :P thanks!
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snarfed manual until it hurts, and manual indie events haven't hurt (me) yet
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tantek it's an excellent case-study
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tantek was that your first (only?) indie event?
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snarfed nah there are a handful
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snarfed i think all HWCs
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snarfed finding
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tantek looking for first, and approximately how many, maybe a recent one too
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snarfed https://snarfed.org/?s=h-event
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snarfed looks like 1/15/2014 was the first
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snarfed adding to /events
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snarfed er /event
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tantek oh heh - was just doing that
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tantek hence the questions :)
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tantek since you did the hardwork of coding, I was recognizing it ;)
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tantek.com edited /event (+347) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Ryan Barrett" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /event (+2) "/* Ryan Barrett */ ]]" (view diff)
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snarfed oh! thanks!
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snarfed.org edited /event (+108) "/* Ryan Barrett */ another (better) example" (view diff)
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tommorris tantek: looks like the haskell library just implements a set of types for microformats2 and serializes and deserializes from JSON, but doesn't yet parse HTML.
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tantek tommorris: interesting - so it operates on the JSON output of other microformats parsers?
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kylewm wonder if it has something to do with pandoc?
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tommorris tantek: it's probably implemented like that to separate out the types from the parser. the idea is that you might have multiple pluggable parsers.
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tantek.com edited /event (+464) "/* Ryan Barrett */ note POSSE FB event, and tweet/G+ posts *about* it which worked as proxy POSSE posts for Bridgy backfeeding interactions" (view diff)
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tantek snarfed, is there a Bridgy Publish feature request for making POSSE copies of indie events?
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tantek s/POSSE/Facebook POSSE
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Loqi tantek meant to say: snarfed, is there a Bridgy Publish feature request for making Facebook POSSE copies of indie events?
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snarfed tantek: hmm! i don't think so. definitely a good feature request
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snarfed looking
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tantek would remove a manual step for Aaron, Ben, and you!
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/event#POSSE
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snarfed totally! filing one now
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tantek (I know that's a small start, but so far *everyone* is manually POSSEing events to FB)
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tantek (no one has automated code to do it yet)
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tantek (which I didn't realize)
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tantek snarfed, on that 2014-06-16 event you posted, you have a *featured* image! <img class="shadow" src="/french_press.jpg" />
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snarfed tantek: true!
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snarfed not marked up, but true
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snarfed i'm surprised known doesn't have code to posse fb events
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tantek known has a long to do list ;)
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tantek I think it's the same sort of thing, event posts (or posting events) is not quite frequent enough a use-case for folks to add more code support to it
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tantek though of course making it easier might make you want to post more events etc.
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tantek especially if you could trivially invite your FB friends *from your site*
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tantek (we have some brainstorming on /invitations but nothing yet on a UI for them)
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tantek (just a bit about how to display and send webmentions to people's home pages inviting them to events)
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tantek POSSE invitations from an event to a FB copy of an event would be interesting too
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tantek imagine you could post an indie event on your own site with invitations to any of your friends to: 1) their personal site, 2) their twitter nickname, or 3) their FB profile, and from their perspective they'd just see it in whatever system/site/silo they were using, could easily respond, and it would backfeed to your event on your site.
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snarfed :( https://developers.facebook.com/docs/graph-api/reference/v2.1/event#publish
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snarfed "You cannot create events via the Graph API."
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tantek so that's why we're all doing it manuall :(
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tantek s/manuall/manually
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Loqi tantek meant to say: so that's why we're all doing it manually :(
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snarfed evidently :/
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snarfed filed anyway: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/274
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tantek well perhaps Eventbrite is the next POSSE destination then
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tantek since people do seem to response to Eventbrite invitations
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tantek and they have a pretty extensive API
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snarfed sure!
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tantek documenting the FB limitations :/
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snarfed thanks!
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kylewm I don't super trust the Facebook API documentation anymore
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snarfed kylewm: hah true, given post editing
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kylewm brb, POSTing to /me/events :)
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tantek lol!
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tantek kylewm - do you post indie events?!?
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kylewm nooo
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kylewm I've never posted a silo event either, to be fair
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tantek there's a first time for both then it seems :)
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tantek you going to try posting an indie event and calling the API to POSSE it?
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kylewm too bad,
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kylewm     "message": "(#12) events management API is deprecated for versions v2.0 and higher",
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kylewm tantek: nah, just messing around in the FB Graph API Explorer
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tantek.com edited /event (+562) "/* POSSE */ document FB limitations, add another example of manually POSSEing to FB" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /event (+113) "/* POSSE */ e.g. of a featured photo on an indie event" (view diff)
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tantek LOL, Eventbrite event API has a field called "privacy" which you set to "0" for *private* and "1" for public. How is that not the opposite of obvious?!?
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snarfed i can haz 0 privacy?
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tantek.com edited /event (+199) "/* POSSE */ add links to Bridgy issues to help" (view diff)
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tantek well so much for that rabbithole
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tantek at least we captured a few bridgy itches in case we get a critical mass of indie event publishers
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bret-web Lol snarfed
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bret-web I'm going to do more event work soon
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tantek bret - do you POSSE any of your indie events?
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ben_thatmust hey guys
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bret-web Tantek, I have not yet no.
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bret-web I only implemented display and uF2 of events and RSVP
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tantek "only" :)
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bret-web That's the easy part :) just mapping some vars to a starter template
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ben_thatmustbeme huh, so fragmention confusion just got even worse.. I just realized you can have a + sign in an ID
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ben_thatmustbeme Firefox will not jump to an ID with a + in it, Chrome will
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: that's good that it's inconsistent, that means we can likely fix it
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ben_thatmustbeme i take that back, firefox does
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tantek what does the spec say about IDs with + in them?
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tantek unescaped?
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ben_thatmustbeme the spec says IDs can be anything as long as there is no space
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ben_thatmustbeme basically thats the only limitation
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tantek but + is a space
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tantek in the URL
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ben_thatmustbeme The value must be unique amongst all the IDs in the element's home subtree and must contain at least one character. The value must not contain any space characters.
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ben_thatmustbeme in the URL, hmm, let me pull that up
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tantek e.g. /Main_Page#bad+id
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, it can, the ABNF of rfc3986 allows + in the fragment
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ben_thatmustbeme unescaped
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tantek that's why I said bad Id not bad fragment :)
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ben_thatmustbeme quick testing page i was using http://students.cs.uri.edu/~ben/break.html
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ben_thatmustbeme but thats both a valid fragment and a valid ID
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tantek "+" in a URL is interpreted as a " "
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tantek just like an escape would be
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tantek not as a literal "+"
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ben_thatmustbeme who defined that + in the URL means space?
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tantek likely in rfc3986
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tantek but to be clear, that's an old spec and you should be looking at http://url.spec.whatwg.org/
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tantek see also http://tantek.com/2011/238/b1/many-ways-slice-url-name-pieces ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme ahh, we have been using the RFC for url up til now, thats whats linked on the wiki,
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tantek useful to know the answers either way
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ben_thatmustbeme i think i have been looking at this from a different perspective than you. I have been looking at this as fitting it in to current standards, whereas i should be looking at this as creating new standards. this doc is what actually says that + should be defined as space. so that makes sense.
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ben_thatmustbeme and + in an ID should be the escaped form
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ben_thatmustbeme (when you reference the ID in the fragment that is)
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KartikPrabhu aah ok glad that got resolved. was going to reply about fragmentions
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ben_thatmustbeme it still comes back to the question of ## or some other syntax
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18VAAQP55 Someone said + as space applied to the query part of the URL, not the fragment, but I don't have a source
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ben_thatmustbeme i think the case that was being made was that if we don't use the ##, we are still staying within the old RFC, which did not allow a nother # anywhere after the first #
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KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: why change the syntax when it is already in use?
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KartikPrabhu and works
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ben_thatmustbeme kartikprabhu, there was an entire discussion about this yesterday
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18VAAQP55 I think changing it to simplify further is OK. That's why single # makes sense to me
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KartikPrabhu 18VAAQP55: a single # also works with fragmentions.js
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18VAAQP55 Wait, is that my nick?
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KartikPrabhu yes
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ben_thatmustbeme that was the other arguement, plus ## turns in the # on directs in FF, plus it was breaking some other implementations i believe
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KevinMarks Hm
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KartikPrabhu oh ha! KevinMarks: I agree with the single # :P
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indie-visitor Hi everyone, my name is Rosa... I don't really know where to go to ask this but I am interested in attending indie web camp in Brighton on 6-7th September. I have been working as a developer for about 7 months now so I feel like I might need some guidance, so can I be somebody's apprentice? Is this the right place to ask??
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KevinMarks The net split overwhelmed my nick buffer
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tantek welcome indie-visitor!
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KevinMarks Hi Rosa, yes this is a good place to aak
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KartikPrabhu indie-visitor: HI Rosa... this is the right place to ask. you might want to change your nick by /nick yourname
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tantek yes you found the right place :)
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ben_thatmustbeme #+ would work i think but it does not leave you any way to add a second mention for the defining start and end
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tantek speaking of which I was just creating a Lanyrd for IndieWebCamp UK
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tantek Rosa, can you try typing /nick rosa_ (or something else you choose for yourself)
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KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: of course # anythign would wokr but why
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ben_thatmustbeme #+ specifically because it immediately has a space saying "this is definitely not and ID"
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KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: we don';t need to say "this is definitely not an id"
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: may be the place where the official fragmention thing is documented could switch to single # by default ?
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tantek indie-visitor / Rosa - still there?
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ben_thatmustbeme kartikPrabhu http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-28/line/1409243021677
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tantek coincidentally I am creating a Lanyrd right now for IndieWebCampUK in Brighton on 6-7th September
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tantek a Lanyrd page I should say :)
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rosa sorry I was cooking at the same time!
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tantek no problem! there's often multitasking / multithreaded conversations in this channel :)
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rosa :)
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tantek what's your personal site rosa?
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rosa soo what do I need to do? Do I just sign up on Lanyrd?
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KevinMarks At the moment /fragmention is the most official place we have
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ben_thatmustbeme rosa, its great to have you on board though. I am exceited to go to my first indiewebcamp in a month or so
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KevinMarks Tantek said we should write a more formal spec
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tantek realizes we can ask humans and not the bot by asking "what's" rather than "what is"
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tantek rosa, to sign-up, if you have your own website already, we can help you do that right now!
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, i'm going to forget that a lot tantek
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rosa ah I do have a website it is a bit basic! www.techfox.co.uk
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tantek and don't worry about needing some guidance, we all need some of that, and we all help guide each other :)
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rosa what kind of stuff will we be doing? I have a blog on wordpress which I want to move over... and trying to make an app which I could use to post projects and stuff i'm working on... would I be building something like that? or are there set tasks or something?
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KartikPrabhu rosa: those sound ideal for indiewebcamp. It is quite free form but you seem to have more of a plan that I did!
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tantek we will be doing a day of discussion sessions (BarCamp style), and then a day of hack sessions, and for both days the focus is on any aspect of improving your own site that *you* want to focus on
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tantek of course if you're looking for suggestions to work on, there's plenty to draw from
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ben_thatmustbeme rosa, personally i have been trying to get as much done before IWC as I can so I can get help with the harder stuff. It will also give me the ability to help get others started. Everyone is different
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ben_thatmustbeme i figure to get the most out of it, i want to come with as many questions as I can
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rosa ah ok great :) I will be able to bring something to work on then :) sounds like it will be really good... I will probably push it to Heroku first and then change my domain over to it once its done... can I still just use my current domain to register?
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tantek of course!
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tantek I see that you have a Twitter link on your contact page
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tantek so I'm going to assume you don't want a visible Twitter link on your home page, is that correct?
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@BorgosMN Testing @withknown connected to brid.gy on our website. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/505786366324523008)
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rosa cool ok :) should I just sign up as a creator?
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tantek rosa - yes absolutely!
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tantek just updated https://twitter.com/IndieWebCampUK to link to this year's event
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@IndieWebCampUK IndieWebCampUK 2014 is in one week! Still some spots left, sign-up! http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/UK #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/505787478268080128)
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tantek rosa - have you had a chance to look at http://indiewebcamp.com/How_to_set_up_web_sign-in_on_your_own_domain ?
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tantek.com edited /2014/UK (+8) "/* Organizers */ adding myself as co-organizer since I'm creating the Lanyrd and tweeting about it from IndieWebCampUK" (view diff)
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@jkphl RT @IndieWebCampUK: IndieWebCampUK 2014 is in one week! Still some spots left, sign-up! http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/UK #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/505788875223347200)
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rosa thanks checking it out now
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tantek.com edited /2014/UK (+2) "/* Schedule */ discussions" (view diff)
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snarfed \
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@brightconf IndieWebCamp UK, 6th-7th September 2014: IndieWebCamp UK - 6th-7th September 2014 Own your data. Rather than p... http://lanyrd.com/2014/indieweb/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (twitter.com/_/status/505790494115233792)
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tantek whoa that was fast
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rosa ah ok so it seems like I need to change the links to social media on my website to have rel="me" in the links... and then it should authorise?
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rosa I will have to do it tomorrow I think... friend is coming over soon
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tantek rosa - yes - though the links need to be on your home page
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tantek however, if you don't want them visible, you can add it using <link rel=me href=…> in the <head>
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tantek just realized that the hashtag for an event on Lanyrd is what causes its Lanyrd slug
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tantek rosa, for example you could add this to your home page <head> :
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rosa ooh ok yeah I don't want them to be visible on the home page, thanks will put into the head
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tantek <link rel="me" href="https://twitter.com/rosaemerald">
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rosa awesome thanks!
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tantek.com edited /2014/UK/Schedule (+383) "add Improving Reality 2014 for the Thursday before" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] http://techlifeweb.com/using-wordpress-for-indieweb/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://techlifeweb.com/using-wordpress-for-indieweb/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://techlifeweb.com/using-wordpress-for-indieweb/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/How_to_set_up_web_sign-in_on_your_own_domain (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://techlifeweb.com/using-wordpress-for-indieweb/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuth (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://techlifeweb.com/using-wordpress-for-indieweb/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Special:UserLogin (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://techlifeweb.com/using-wordpress-for-indieweb/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://techlifeweb.com/using-wordpress-for-indieweb/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmentions (webmention)
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tantek wow that's a good post
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tantek.com edited /WordPress (+229) "/* Adding Indieweb Support/Elements to a Wordpress Site */ add articles about getting setup" (view diff)
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KevinMarks Rosa, you might also find indiewebify.me helpful
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KevinMarks Great article on the command line on your blog, by the way
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techlifeweb tantek: thanks...not done yet. Hit publish by mistake lol
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tantek rosa, http://www.codebar.io/ sounds amazing.
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rosa cool thanks I will check it out. Aw thanks! I need to write something else soon... trying to do once a fortnight but time has dissapeared this week!
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tantek were you able to sign-in once you added that <link> tag?
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tantek.com edited /2014/UK/Schedule (+3) "/* Friday 2014-09-05 */ list item the call to action" (view diff)
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rosa aw yeah Codebar is awesome, come check it out sometime... it is every other tuesday
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@kevinmarks Great article on getting WordPress configured for #indieweb http://techlifeweb.com/using-wordpress-for-indieweb/ by @techlifeweb (twitter.com/_/status/505797193907699712)
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rosa soon to be every tuesday
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tantek great!
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tantek oh kevinmarks, did you see above? "techlifeweb: tantek: thanks...not done yet. Hit publish by mistake lol"
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tantek poor guy, now you've sent the herds his way ;)
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rosa I haven't tried adding the rel="me" thing yet I will so it tomorrow my friend was meant to get here at 8 so I could probably have done it by now! but they are late lol I will let you know if it for some reason doesn't work
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techlifeweb heh...just adding some bits about POSSE
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tantek rosa - yes! go ahead and add it and try signing-in - it will take you less than a minute :)
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KevinMarks Oops, sorry
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tantek rosa, definitely feel free to ask any questions about any issues or difficulties with signing in etc.
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tantek or even anything which seems confusing - it's all an indieweb work in progress, so there are no bad questions.
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tantek ok I have a fixed Lanyrd URL for IndieWebCampUK 2014 finally: http://lanyrd.com/2014/indiewebcampuk
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tantek.com edited /2014/UK (-106) "/* RSVP */ add Lanyrd" (view diff)
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jonnybarnes is there anyway to report "issues" with brid.gy?
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snarfed bridgy has no issues
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snarfed must be your hardware
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jonnybarnes lol
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snarfed …kidding, kidding! https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues
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snarfed you're also welcome to just ask me here
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jonnybarnes well, im not entirely sure this is actually an issue
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jonnybarnes but this tweet didnt get sent back to my site: https://twitter.com/konklone/status/505782617523122178
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@konklone @jonnybarnes @mathias another thing I learned more recently: StartCom offers SHA-2 intermediates. Remake chain with https://www.startssl.com/certs/class2/sha2/pem/sub.class2.server.sha2.ca.pem (twitter.com/_/status/505782617523122178)
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jonnybarnes but as you can see
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jonnybarnes its not actyally a reply to my note/tweet
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jonnybarnes but it feels to me like it should have been sent back anyway
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snarfed looking
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jonnybarnes the "huzzah" tweet was sent by bridgy as expected
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snarfed yeah the second should have too
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snarfed looking at https://www.brid.gy/twitter/jonnybarnes , bridgy hasn't seen the second tweet yet
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snarfed i wonder if this is another case of twitter's search occasionally missing results
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snarfed https://www.brid.gy/about#missing
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snarfed more background: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/202
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jonnybarnes well, no biggie really, just thought id make you aware
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KevinMarks Hm, the in-page links to the poem aren't working on Chrome Android
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snarfed yeah, known issue with twitter's search api. :( sorry
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KevinMarks http://www.kevinmarks.com/poemfragmentions.html##Do+not+go+gentle+into+that+good+night.+Rage,+rage+against+the+dying+of+the+light.
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snarfed btw jonnybarnes if you really want that second tweet, you can get it by sending a manual webmention: https://www.brid.gy/about#source-urls
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tantek alright everyone who likes/uses Lanyrd, we have an event on there now for IndieWebCampUK 2014: http://lanyrd.com/2014/indiewebcampuk
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jonnybarnes snarfed: so send a webmention with source = https://www.brid.gy/post/twitter/konklone/505782617523122178 ?
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jonnybarnes nope, thats gets a 400 response
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snarfed you want to use the /comment/… form
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snarfed since it's a reply
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snarfed and the username should be you, not him
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jonnybarnes https://www.brid.gy/comment/twitter/konklone/505782617523122178 gives 404
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@IndieWebCampUK Have or want a personal site? RSVP for IndieWebCampUK 2014: http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/UK/Guest_List Can also use: http://lanyrd.com/2014/indiewebcampuk/ (twitter.com/_/status/505803120958382080)
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jonnybarnes ahhh
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snarfed (see the Details section below the example URLs)
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jonnybarnes https://www.brid.gy/comment/twitter/jonnybarnes/505782617523122178 is giving a 404?
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jonnybarnes ive double checked the status id as well
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KevinMarks_ hm, google seems ot have turned off recipe search
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snarfed check the format again. for /comment you need two tweet ids, first the original then the reply
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KevinMarks_ the link at http://www.google.com/insidesearch/features/recipes/ doesn't show the sidebar any more
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KevinMarks_ is this another schema fail mode
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tantek Anyone here posting recipes on their own site?
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jonnybarnes snarfed: working now, thanks
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snarfed jonnybarnes: great! sorry again for the trouble
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@kongroove RT @IndieWebCampUK: Have or want a personal site? RSVP for IndieWebCampUK 2014: http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/UK/Guest_List Can also use: http://lanyrd.com/2014/indiewebcampuk/ (twitter.com/_/status/505803898406580224)
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jonnybarnes tantek: as in cooking recipes?
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tantek yes
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KevinMarks_ was chatting to benwerd about recipe blogging, and realised that the widespread hrecipe markup coudl amke for nice previews
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tantek hrecipe markup is widespread
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tantek and now h-recipe is being slowly adopted too
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@JockelLohkamp hot topic at #GETDBerlin: #socap: The Secret Behind Airbnb... REGISTER http://get-d.net/ @barbcfa http://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20140604125559-10448698-social-capital-the-secret-behind-airbnb-and-uber #indieweb #iot (twitter.com/_/status/505804157584822272)
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tantek that looks kinda spammy
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KevinMarks_ eg http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/type-of-dish/bread/mini-focaccia-bread-with-red-onion-olive-and-rosemary-topping.html has a very nice hrecipe markup
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tantek sure, want to use that example to start http://indiewebcamp.com/recipe ?
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KevinMarks_ rather than reposting the recipe on http://known.kevinmarks.com/2014/rosie-made-the-tastiest-bread-ever , i'd liek to post a link and have the preview show it
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tantek KevinMarks: last time I asked benwerd, reply-contexts were not very high on his priority list
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tantek for any kinds of replies, nevermind replies to recipes in particular
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jonnybarnes snarfed: is bridgy truncating t.co links itself? see https://www.brid.gy/comment/twitter/jonnybarnes/505779284146155522/505782617523122178
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snarfed jonnybarnes: truncating as in ellipsizing?
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jonnybarnes snarfed: yes
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jonnybarnes tantek: I beleive barnabywalters puts some recipes on his site
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snarfed jonnybarnes: yeah it does that in a few places, i think including tweet rendering
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jonnybarnes he at leasts talks about cooking from time to time
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tantek jonnybarnes: that sounds vaguely familiar
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tantek if you find one of his recipes, please add it as an IndieWeb Example to /recipe
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snarfed jonnybarnes: twitter uses a t.co link inside the tweet content there. bridgy resolves it and replaces it with the real url. final resolved urls are always nicer, when possible, and when rendered nicely
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bret im not sure how I can do reply context other than the basics in-reply-to. seems complicated
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jonnybarnes snarfed: and by rendered nicely do you mean ellipsizing the displayed url?
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snarfed ellipsizing and removing leading http(s) and www
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tantek unwinds his stack back to editing his upcoming events on his home page by hand.
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snarfed tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 71 karma
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snarfed jonnybarnes: https://github.com/snarfed/webutil/blob/master/util.py#L221
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tantek bret - you can do at least URL and icon pretty easily: http://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context#Levels
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jonnybarnes snarfed: looks good
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tantek just work on adding one small piece at a time
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snarfed thanks!
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jonnybarnes tantek: having a quick look at http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/?tagged=food i dont think hes actually posted any recipes
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KevinMarks_ hordes I sent to techweblife's post: 4 (thanks twitter analytics)
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snarfed a thundering herd!!!
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bret TIL images on webpages look terrible on high res macs
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KevinMarks_ svg++
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Loqi svg has 5 karma
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tantek waits for KevinMarks to post vector photos.
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ShaneHudson tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 72 karma
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KevinMarks_ heh
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KartikPrabhu svg++ :)
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ShaneHudson Yeah it is such a shame photos look worse, not better
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Loqi svg has 6 karma
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KevinMarks_ do apple not scale them well?
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bret can I get added as a member to https://github.com/indieweb ?
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tantek what's your gh?
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@dkmj RT @kevinmarks: Great article on getting WordPress configured for #indieweb http://techlifeweb.com/using-wordpress-for-indieweb/ by @techlifeweb (twitter.com/_/status/505814063579140096)
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bret tantek: http://github.com/bcomnes
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bret sorry walking from room to room. at debconf14 :)
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tantek done
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ben_thatmustbeme can't get all the kinks out of this code, but my idea was to try basically #id#start#end
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ben_thatmustbeme so you could refer to text within a specific ID
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ben_thatmustbeme and if id is blank and end isn't given you end up at the original implementation of ##some+text
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bret tantek++
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bret :)
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Loqi tantek has 73 karma
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: the UX of trying to link to a particular ID is so bad I wouldn't design for that
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tantek that's why I instead went down the path of from … to
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tantek both being fragmentions
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ben_thatmustbeme well i figure it makes sense for 1 implementation that way though, just leave off the ID all the time
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ben_thatmustbeme it still distinguishes between ID vs fragmention, and defines a case if you give both
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KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: what is the need to distinguish ID and fragmention?
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tantek !tell caseorganic would you like to create the Lanyrd event for IndieWebCamp Cambridge in October or should I? http://lanyrd.com/search/?context=future&q=IndieWebCamp
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell her that when I see her next
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@techlifeweb Updated Using #WordPress for #IndieWeb http://techlifeweb.com/?p=12741 Now with details on POSSE and PESOS (twitter.com/_/status/505820176567123968)
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tantek updated his static upcoming events box in the footer of his home page, and then noticed he needed to update his "Currently Working On" column too. Now all updated and live. Time for lunch.
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KartikPrabhu tantek should updated his "currently eating" section :P
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tantek thankfully has no such section to update (at least on his website)
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tantek unlike: http://isjeremyeatingtoast.com/
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tantek oh that appears to be down - sorry twitter api broke it
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tantek (changes to)
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tantek here's a replacement: https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q=from%3Aadactio%20toast&src=typd
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KartikPrabhu adactio keeps posting photos of delicious ramen
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tantek see also the FAQ: https://twitter.com/adactio/status/2530105488
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@adactio Eating toast. (FAQ: to disable the toast feature, go to http://twitter.com/adactio click "Following" and then "remove") (twitter.com/_/status/2530105488)
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KartikPrabhu ha! :P
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KevinMarks I think id's become a fallback case for fragmentions, if that's not too megalomaniacal
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks I agree
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KevinMarks Happy to give them precedence if found first, to not change existing link behaviour
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KevinMarks But assume that creating fragmentions gets easier over time
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tantek KevinMarks: I'd doubt that browsers would want to make that big of a likely breaking change
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tantek to treat ids as a fallback case for fragmentions
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KevinMarks_ Yes, I was talking in usage terms
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tantek nothing to do with megalomaniacal or not, has to do with perception of it being too big of a change to risk breaking tons of existing sites
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tantek I'd say it's not worth exploring options that are likely to be non-starters to browsers
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KevinMarks_ search IDs exactly first, then do fuzzy matching on text
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KevinMarks_ is what I would propose as a browser change
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tantek so you don't mind that fragmentions of single words becomes - fragile?
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KevinMarks_ not really; single words are fragile anyway
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tantek interesting
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KevinMarks_ This is why I want to explore the 'highlight the words I linked" case
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KevinMarks_ the scrollto code should still do the containment stuff for context
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@OccupyMN Local indie web developers needed to break out of FaceBox... http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-09-10-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/505861328074854401)
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kylewm hey cool, Known is in the list of apps nominated to be ported to Sandstorm.io
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@kyle_wm Hey @SandstormIO, it's already been nominated but I'm another vote for the incredible @withknown #indieweb platform https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sandstorm-io-personal-cloud-platform/twtr (twitter.com/_/status/505864885654130688)
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