#indiewebcamp 2014-09-01

2014-09-01 UTC
rschulman_, JonathanNeal_, sdboyer_, wagle, benward___, crossdiver, jacus, snarfed, the_merlin, acegiak_, saurik_, finchd, PMurphs, bretolius, iboxifoo, halorgium_ and ozatomic_ joined the channel
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acegiak_ GWG: I think I'm gonna do some javascript to automatically tick and untick the boxes for reply and repost in indieweb custom taxonomy
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snarfed acegiak_: that feature is definitely nice. i did the same thing for press this: https://snarfed.org/indieweb-press-this-bookmarklets-for-wordpress
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acegiak_ snarfed: hmm. it would be cool to get bookmarklets working with the indieweb custom taxonomy plugin
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@withknown RT @IndieWebCampUK: IndieWebCampUK 2014 is in one week! Still some spots left, sign-up! http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/UK #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/506248776659382272)
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@jimgroom MT @IndieWebCampUK: IndieWebCampUK 2014 is in one week! ...spots left, sign-up http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/UK #indieweb > Recommended UK edtech folK (twitter.com/_/status/506249216763908096)
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mko KevinMarks: Regarding /link-preview -- have you thought about just implementing a simple OEmbed provider that returns an iFrame or modified view of the page requested? I just finished implementing an OEmbed and OpenGraph Embed consumer for my site ( see https://mowens.com/notes/2014/08/20/1/ as an example ).
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mko Next, I'm going to make an OEmbed Provider for my site that provides a Rich HTML response similar to that seen below that post.
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/jimgroom/506249216763908096/1556094044 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/UK (webmention)
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kylewm how common are oembeds for content you'd link to, mko?
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mko kylewm: Pretty common.
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mko A handful of real-world examples from my entries: Twitter, Rd.io, YouTube, Vimeo, Instagram, Flickr
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kylewm I like the sound of that. look forward to seeing more examples on your site
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mko The rest I have an OpenGraph fallback for so if they contain OpenGraph data, it OEmbeds a Rich type that I construct on the server.
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snarfed mko: re talking to KevinMarks, i assume you've seen http://pageaspreview.herokuapp.com/ :P
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mko kylewm -- examples: Twitter ( https://mowens.com/r/4Nh4 + https://mowens.com/n/4Nh2 ), OpenGraph ( https://mowens.com/r/4L_4 + https://mowens.com/r/4Wu1 + https://mowens.com/r/4Wu4 ), Instagram ( https://mowens.com/n/4DQ5 + https://mowens.com/n/4DQ4 ), Flickr ( https://mowens.com/r/3yN12 ), Rdio ( https://mowens.com/n/4Gb1 + https://mowens.com/n/4ER3 ), YouTube ( https://mowens.com/n/4NX3 + https://mowens.com/n/4QK1 ), and Vimeo (
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mko https://mowens.com/n/4NN1 + https://mowens.com/n/4Gg1 ).
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mko Those were the pages I was using to test various implementations. :-)
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kylewm mko: wow! do you have to do some special coding for each provider?
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mko snarfed: that was actually why I mentioned it to him, as being an OEmbed provider seems more useful, as it seems like a well-known and well-structured standard.
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snarfed sure!
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mko kylewm: Nope. I wrote one OEmbed Consumer and then added the definitions of those providers into my provider list.
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mko kylewm: The only "special coding" that's involved is an entry that looks like this: https://gist.github.com/mko/9b2600c1b595abac321b
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kylewm wow, that's awesome
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mko On oembed.com you can find most, if not all, of the known OEmbed providers.
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mko I did have to write custom code to convert OpenGraph data into a rich-type OEmbed, but that was pretty easy, too.
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mko It's still pretty rudimentary, but for now it meets or surpasses most of Twitter.com / Facebook.com link-preview functionality.
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mko The process of testing and validating providers is pretty fast. I figure if I wanted to add all of the known providers it would be a half day's work since some of them actually don't follow the rules set forth by OEmbed to the letter.
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kylewm is Oembed related to Ostatus?
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snarfed kylewm: not afaik; O is just a common prefix for "open" standards
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snarfed mko: iirc people here have mixed feelings about oembed, esp the mf2 advocates, since they think you should use mf2 for everything
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kylewm irc it that way too, was looking back at logs for confirmation
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kylewm "tantek: oembed seems like extra work to support (as a publisher) when you can simply publish rich h-entry markup instead"
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kylewm snarfed: what's the thing you say, "be lenient on what you'll accept and strict on what you publish"?
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snarfed sure! definitely not me though. forgot the name, but it's an old school tech "law"
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snarfed i interpret it as making sure you emit valid, well-formatted data, not necessarily that you harshly minimize the number of formats, but that's just me
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snarfed aha, postel's law. from an early draft TCP spec. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_principle
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kylewm snarfed: nice, thanks for finding that :)
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kylewm mko++ by the way :)
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Loqi mko has 7 karma
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neuro` Good morning
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kylewm morning neuro`
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acegiak_ is it ok to have your h-cite inside your e-content?
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kylewm acegiak: totally up to you I think. if the thing you're citing is part of the post content, I think it's appropriate in the e-content. if it's more like a reply-context, that might be better outside
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acegiak_ hmm ko
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acegiak_ ok*
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/jimgroom/506249216763908096/785475632 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/UK (webmention)
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jonnybarnes barnabywalters: I think I've just sent you a webmention?
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jonnybarnes its the first time ive tried via micropub
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barnabywalters morning jonnybarnes — I don’t see anything, where did you send it?
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jonnybarnes https://jonnybarnes.uk/notes/2w
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@oler Become a citizen of the #IndieWeb http://indiewebify.me/ (twitter.com/_/status/506379692815818753)
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jonnybarnes I'm gonna try again via my actual admin cp
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jonnybarnes ok, slightly more verbose response, it failed to send the webmention
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barnabywalters know what the error was? I can look in my logs
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jonnybarnes debugging now
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barnabywalters (btw, in answer to your question, I updated the post with more info)
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jonnybarnes ok, so its defintely an error in my webmention endpoint discovery code
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jonnybarnes right, gtg somthings come up, will look at this later
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: oops, I think I broke your site! https://jonnybarnes.uk/notes/2q http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4XuAtY/
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@tradem RT @oler: Become a citizen of the #IndieWeb http://indiewebify.me/ (twitter.com/_/status/506399694768316416)
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jonnybarnes barnabywalters: yes, not yor fault, I didnt think it would error the way it has.
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jonnybarnes basically I have a line that checks if profile images are pbs.twimg.com links, and if so force them to be https links
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jonnybarnes however, for non twitter mentions, I cache the profile image and serve it myself
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jonnybarnes so my function that checks if a link is a pbs.twimg.com link is throwning an error because your profile image isnt technically a url
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jonnybarnes barnabywalters: working again :)
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barnabywalters yay!
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Loqi :D
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jonnybarnes now to try an work out why my discoverWebmentionEndpoint() method doent work on http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4Xu9i0/
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jonnybarnes with that error ive screwed up bridgy :(
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jonnybarnes it normally resolves my jmb.so links correctly to jonnybarnes.uk links
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jonnybarnes i.e. when it makes a POST request the target is jonnybarnes.uk/notes/id
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jonnybarnes but because it was getting 500 errors when resolving the inital jmb.so link from barnabywalters tweet it then tried sending POST with target jmb.so/t/id
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jonnybarnes which my end isnt configured to deal with :(
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GWG Morning
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jonnybarnes barnabywalters: looking over /webmention it says Taproot only uses HTTP Link headers
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jonnybarnes though i dont think this is the case anymore is it?
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jonnybarnes you appear now to only use <link> tags inside your html
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jonnybarnes I used this code to find the webmention endpoint from HTML: https://github.com/indieweb/mention-client-php/blob/master/src/IndieWeb/MentionClient.php#L98
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jonnybarnes it doesn't work for this: http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4Xu9i0/
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jonnybarnes !tell aaronpk https://github.com/indieweb/mention-client-php/blob/master/src/IndieWeb/MentionClient.php#L98 failes with the HTML from http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4Xu9i0/
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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jonnybarnes right, raised an issue for it
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barnabywalters interesting, I no longer only use Link: headers so it should work fine
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barnabywalters oh it’s because that code doesn’t handle links with multiple rel values
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jonnybarnes yup
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jonnybarnes barnabywalters: so I half have it working now :)
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jonnybarnes I've got an endpoint of `/mention/webmention/`
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barnabywalters should be /mentions/webmention/
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jonnybarnes ah yes it is
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jonnybarnes so now I need to work out how to turn that into `http://waterpigs.co.uk/mentions/webmention/`
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barnabywalters bear in mind you can also send manual webmentions using the form on http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4Xu9i0/ — but it’d be even better to get automatic sending correct
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: you have php-mf2 available, right? it comes with a URL resolving function
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barnabywalters https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/blob/master/Mf2/Parser.php#L1163
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jonnybarnes so would that look like \Mf2\resolveUrl('/mentions/webmention', 'http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/XXX/')?
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barnabywalters the params should be the other way round, and really you should also be taking <base> elements into account, but yes
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barnabywalters do you have a Mf2\Parser object for the page?
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barnabywalters if so you can just do $mf->resolveUrl($relativeUrl) and it’ll take care of all that for you
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jonnybarnes i dont have a parser object for the page, this is code being run from my new notes oage once ive put your url into the reply to field
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barnabywalters well, if you want to do really reliable relative URL resolution then you coul just make a Mf2\Parser document and use ->resolveUrl()
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jonnybarnes I feel like Im currently replicating php-mf2
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jonnybarnes ignore the missing return that I haven't put in yet
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jonnybarnes but this code "works": https://gist.github.com/jonnybarnes/e54e25590ee6b2844b1e
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jonnybarnes oh and $url is defined earlier as being the full note permalink
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jonnybarnes saying that, Im not actually sure it would be any quicker to use php-mf2 now Im reading this https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2#parsing-rel-and-relalternate-values
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jonnybarnes I'd still have to loop through the rels and match for `webmention` anyway
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jonnybarnes I'd just be looping through an array instead of using DOMDocument directly
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jonnybarnes thoughts barnabywalters
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jonnybarnes ?
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: I’d do that, and no need to loop — just check for $rels[‘webmention’][0]
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jonnybarnes and if someone only had <link rel="http://webmention.org/" href=" ">?
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barnabywalters well technically an empty href resolves to the current URL
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jonnybarnes no I mean, you should also check for $rels['http://webmention.org/'][0] as well
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jonnybarnes is that even valid php?
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barnabywalters oh yeah that’s valid and you should check for it
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jonnybarnes what characters are allowed in an array key?
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: any, it’s just a string
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barnabywalters you can have emoji if you want
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barnabywalters (but don’t tell tantek)
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barnabywalters actually you can have emoji/arbitrary unicode symbol names in PHP too
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barnabywalters there was a routing library with one function, called μ
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jonnybarnes barnabywalters: ->parseRelsAndAlternates() isnt working
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barnabywalters how so?
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jonnybarnes its returning an empty array
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barnabywalters well it should never return a completely empty array — at the very least, an array with two empty arrays in
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jonnybarnes current code: $mf2 = new \Mf2\Parser($html, $url); $rels = $mf2->parseRelsAndAlternates();
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jonnybarnes yup, that
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jonnybarnes two empty arrays
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barnabywalters with what input data?
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jonnybarnes there we go, bloody guzzle
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jonnybarnes basically, for some reason, php-mf2 doesnt get an actual html string from guzzle4
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barnabywalters $resp->getBody() rather than $resp->getBody(true)?
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jonnybarnes not sure why, forcing the issue by tyecasting works, i,e, $html = (string) $response->getBody();
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barnabywalters at least in guzzle 3, $response->getBody() returned a resource by default
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barnabywalters I added a string cast to php-mf2 to handle cases like that but I think they only cause ->toString() to be called if they’re syntatically inline, not in a different function
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jonnybarnes so I think I have this working now barnabywalters, only issue being I have to look not into $rels, but into $rels[0]
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jonnybarnes and theres an empty $rels[1] as well
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jonnybarnes well the webmention array entry always be in $rels[0]?
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jonnybarnes s/well/will
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Loqi jonnybarnes meant to say: will the webmention array entry always be in $rels[0]?
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barnabywalters the first array are plain rel values, the second is alternates as they have more information attached
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barnabywalters the webmention endpoint should never be an alternate as well, so you can skip the second array
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jonnybarnes barnabywalters: so this is my current code now https://gist.github.com/jonnybarnes/e54e25590ee6b2844b1e
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jonnybarnes well, theres more code prior to this checking the HTTP header values
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: looks good to me!
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jonnybarnes barnabywalters: can I not worry about wether or not they've used link's or a's, as long as either have rel="webmention" stuck in there php-mf2 should expode it in the rels array?
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jonnybarnes s/espode/expose
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jonnybarnes s/expode/expose
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jonnybarnes feck, loqi, be smarter than this
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: php-mf2 parses any element with href and rel attributes, so both <a> and <link> will work, as well as <area>
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jonnybarnes excellent :)
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jonnybarnes barnabywalters: my website should have sent that webmention now
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barnabywalters yay! http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4Xu9i0/ I’m not parsing your authorship information correctly yet though
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Loqi woot
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jonnybarnes barnabywalters: and its there, kind of
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jonnybarnes yeah, I currently rel=author back to my homepage which has all my h-card info on it
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@jonnybarnes I’ve hopefully got the sending of webmentions working correctly on my site. (https://jonnybarnes.uk/notes/2x) (twitter.com/_/status/506442916303478784)
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barnabywalters shrewdness doesn’t get it right either http://shrewdness.waterpigs.co.uk/test/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fjonnybarnes.net%2Fnotes — filing a bug
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barnabywalters actually already filed https://github.com/barnabywalters/shrewdness/issues/12
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jonnybarnes lol, i like how it picks up konklone's info
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jonnybarnes barnabywalters: who do you think is wrong here, shrwedness or my markup?
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barnabywalters shrewdness, your markup is fine
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GWG lurks
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@mapkyca Spying on a website using Webmention and MF2 http://www.marcus-povey.co.uk/?p=3302 (twitter.com/_/status/506454262662959104)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.marcus-povey.co.uk/2014/09/01/spying-on-a-site-using-webmention-and-mf2/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (pingback)
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GWG pfefferle: Do people ever cold call you off your site?
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pfefferle GWG in case of what?
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Loqi [mention] http://followersoftheapocalyp.se/youll-never-hear-surf-music-again-altc-altc2014/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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pfefferle GWG I think I meant ”žin which case“? :)
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GWG I'm considering putting an expanded h-card up and concerned about marketers
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pfefferle GWG ah! no, not yet!
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@Rosaemerald @kj_howard OSC, Indiewebcamp, 'Improv for professional creativity', Codebar, 300 Seconds & SheSays maybe others if have time! Come with me! (twitter.com/_/status/506493851805429760)
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Garbee GWG: I'd be more concerned about spam-bots reading phone numbers and then having automated systems call you non-stop. Or them taking it and adding it to a list to sell to telemarketers.
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Garbee I don't think too many people (or even marketers directly) go around the web just looking for phone numbers to call.
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bear I had to take mine down - got added to robocall lists
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@nitot RT @IndieWebCampUK: IndieWebCampUK 2014 is in one week! Still some spots left, sign-up! http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/UK #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/506498779475107840)
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Jeena has someone here got the new Firefox Accounts server up and running? It seems very complicated to get it running with 5 or six deamons which have to run at the same time at different ports, etc.
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GWG Garbee: I was told Robert Scoble has his number up online. I could call him and ask
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Garbee do it.
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GWG Garbee: Then I'd have to talk to Robert Scoble
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GWG He seems like a handful
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Garbee Problem?
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Garbee Just make it quick.
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ben_thatmustbeme anyone know if you can put a link to the h-card on the main page and how to mark that up?
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ben_thatmustbeme u-card??
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: Check the wiki...this is a hotly debated issue
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gRegor` ben_thatmustbeme: Are you referring to the authorship algorithm? http://indiewebcamp.com/authorship#Determining
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GWG I thought he was thinking of.. http://indiewebcamp.com/h-card#Brainstorming
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gRegor` Authorship is usually the use-case, though.
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gRegor` There was some talk of abbreviated h-cards and linking to a full h-card. Not sure there's any examples of that yet, though.
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KevinMarks I never want anyone to phone me so not publishing my number makes sense
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KevinMarks Gwg++
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Loqi Gwg has 16 karma
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GWG KevinMarks: What earned me that?
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Loqi [mention] http://theboxfactoryhq.com/2014/blogging-is-back-well-a-bit linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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KevinMarks The comment about scoble
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GWG KevinMarks, still stalled on my new h-card
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ben_thatmustbeme to clarify, I have just started to clean up the microformats on my site. Currently it has h-card for each post which just has my name and photo
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, i have an author link in there, perhaps i should link that to my new h-card page
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: I am working on a sidebar for it
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ben_thatmustbeme KevinMarks, I publish my number only to people who i white list to see it.
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ben_thatmustbeme once I have the admin pages for it done i plan to have it so I can group contacts and then select what contacts can see what info
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ben_thatmustbeme or rather what groups can see what info
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GWG I just don't know what everyone should see.
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digitalbliss.uk.com edited /2014/UK/Guest_List (+75) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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digitalbliss.uk.com edited /2014/UK/Guest_List (-29) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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digitalbliss.uk.com edited /2014/UK/Guest_List (+54) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks Lunch beneath olive trees beside abandoned silos #indieweb https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/506575152407007232/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/506575152407007232)
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KartikPrabhu did google completely drop XMPP support?
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KartikPrabhu can't connect to google chat via pidgin/jabber anymore
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rascul i had thought that they did awhile ago
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