#indiewebcamp 2014-09-15
2014-09-15 UTC
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# 
GWG- Anyway....aside from that...webmentions are working again
# GWG- But more questions arise
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# 
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "the different then between a response and a reply" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=the+different+then+between+a+response+and+a+reply
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# gRegor` kylewm: Kartik has a relative rel=webmention on his forms, yes.
# gRegor` I think in Link: headers it should, ideally, be an absolute URL, though? Not sure.
# gRegor` GWG: What is the use-case for differentiating "reply" and "response"?
# gRegor` webmention was my first foray into doing much with headers, aside from sending Location: headers, so it was kinda fun.
# gRegor` I did both for maximum compat, in case an implementation is only looking for one or the other.
# gRegor` Except I don't support the deprecated rel=webmention.org version.
# gRegor` Just rel=webmention
# gRegor` You mean /reply-context ?
# 
@theindieweb RE: Net Neutrality - "The FCC is taking public comment online through Monday." http://www.mynews4.com/news/story/Its-time-to-get-up-to-speed-on-Net-Neutrality/Vwxybkh9VESzLBKu6pLN1Q.cspx #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/511327589185884160)
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# gRegor` I did not know about theindieweb.com. Anyone we know?
# @theindieweb RE: Net Neutrality - To file your own comment, go here http://www.fcc.gov/comments #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/511328361374040065)
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# @theindieweb RE: Net Neutrality - To sign a letter that has already been written, go here https://www.battleforthenet.com #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/511328885930479616)
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# 
@DAXPressMedia IndieWeb advocates launch known so #bloggers can be social and still control their content https://gigaom.com/2014/09/11/indieweb-advocates-launch-known-so-bloggers-can-be-social-and-still-control-their-content/ (twitter.com/_/status/511341156912099329)
# snarfed gRegor`: kylewm: http://indiewebcamp.com/interactions and http://indiewebcamp.com/responses (but you probably already know)
# 
@daviddulin IndieWeb advocates launch Known so bloggers can be social and control their content https://gigaom.com/2014/09/11/indieweb-advocates-launch-known-so-bloggers-can-be-social-and-still-control-their-content/ (twitter.com/_/status/511341593647800320)
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# 
bret really great post benwerd http://werd.io/2014/some-reflections-on-a-summer-at-mattervc-written-on-the
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# indie-visitor hi all
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# snyder__ Hi
# snyder__ hi snarfed
# snyder__ how ya doin this evening?
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# snyder__ So I am new to the indie web idea. I saw the people from known on twit the other day & was looking to get some info on installing it on my blue host account. Anyone have any pointers?
# snyder__ hi bret
# snyder__ well im open to whatever. The only thing I know about is known so thats why I was asking about it. Im open for whatever cause it looks like a great thing to do
# snyder__ Well I haven't started yet just wanted to get input on if thats a good platform or if there's others. Just wanting to learn more about it. I looked around the indie web camp site. Im not a programmer but am willing to learn it's on my list of things to learn
# snyder__ Yea I have a few doamins & hosting paid for 3 years
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# snyder__ I have hosting through blue host you heard of them?
# bret snyder__ there is an extended page here: http://indiewebcamp.com/gettingstarted
# snyder__ so is there other type other than silo stuff?
# snyder__ yea I think I looked at that page but it just confused me more let me see if its a diff page
# snyder__ Yea thats how I found this channel
# snyder__ I do alot of research & stuff I am a prepaid cell phone dealer & I flash phones & what not. So I do some sharing on Social media. Looking to maybe start a blog or just start writing somewhere are the main things
# snyder__ so that would most likely be fine for me. It has plugins correct? so I could always add on other stuff down the road right?
# snyder__ I was liking how known pulls everything comments & all into 1 place
# bret snyder__ the cool thing about that is that its not just known that can do that now. http://brid.gy is the tool that backfeeds that content to known/other sites using a thing called webmention
# snyder__ yea I was looking at that webmentions.io & org pages
# snyder__ I have wordpress on my 1 site that I need to finish already & I have another domain that is for personal use I was thinking about maybe doing a blog with. So I could just go ahead with word press maybe & use a setup with brid.gy
# bret there are lots of small things that are being actively developed and researched by the community that when put together make up a really rich picture. everything from domain as identity logins (indieauth) to fragmentation linking and annotations using existing standards, microformats and UX design principals, standard publishing apis etc
# snyder__ well it's not a must but its a option. I seen that indieauth & was going to look into it more as well.
# snyder__ GWG so you guys just use wp as your base & add plugins on for what you need or build them(which I would like to do soon)
# snyder__ did you post that flow chart somewhere?
# snyder__ thats seems like prob the smartest thing to do is us wp as me base
# snyder__ yea
# snyder__ its really flexable
# snarfed snyder__: http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress
# snyder__ see I would like some automated stuff on my Biz site like Activations n stuff like that
# bret snyder__ http://indiewebcamp.com/indiemark
# snyder__ I seen them on this week in google on TWiT.tv this week
# snyder__ thats how I learned about known
# snyder__ i was looking around & seen the hcard info & got all kinds of confused so thank you all very much for info. im not leaving just saying thanks
# snyder__ so you guys have seen an influx cause of that then? thats good
# snyder__ right on im going to look at a couple of these page you all gave me info on ill be back in a few
# snyder__ is it possible to say pull webmentions & post them in may 2 diff pages on a site? I would just have to put that plug in in the place I want it on each page correct
# snyder__ Ill have to look a bit more on how the webmentions work n see if its possible to do Im sure i could make it work some how
# snyder__ ok
# snyder__ GWG: atleast your doing it. It will get better with time. I want to learn how to code sometime in the near feature
# bret snyder__ this is also a good intro indieweb in general https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNr0JNwsLy8
# snyder__ bret thanks ill watch it in a minute looking up domain with my name I already own 4mattsnyder.com prob as close as im going to get
# bret snyder__ also check out https://domai.nr for domain hacks
# snyder__ yea theres alot of new ones just released & that domai.nr is expensive isn't it for short domains? I may be thinking of another site that looks like that 1
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# snyder__ kylewm yea i have php54 installed by default but I wasnt sure how to get it onto my server for 1. I unziped it & wasnt sure if I upload all the folders n files 1 by 1 or the main folder or rar file or what to start so I thought I would look around n see what all was out there. Im new to this type of stuff.
# snyder__ Ive installed wordpress but on bluehost u just click install wp & it installs
# 
kylewm snyder__: have you seen http://known.readthedocs.org/en/latest/install/instructions.html
# snyder__ yea but it was kinda confusing but ill sit down with my bluehost cpanel open & go thru it that will prob help me. I try to do some research before I go bothering people but like I said im new to this type of stuff uploading to my own server n what not
# 
@Bali_Maha @KateMfD will play around with u :) let me know when it is set up. Brid.gy also works gr8 w wordpress if u have indieweb plugin (twitter.com/_/status/511370471015993344)
# snyder__ i appreciate the help though so dont take that wrong. I help people with flashing stuff & when they dont try to solve an issue on their own it gets kinda annoying after awhile cause they dont look at nothing I like to try and figure stuff out maybe im stubborn lol
# snyder__ ok yea I saw a MySQL Logo in my Cpanel so Ill click on it & it will prob walk me thru that. See I wasnt sure about that stuff also
# snyder__ then after I create the config.ini will that be a folder?
# snyder__ ok so ill look into installing MySQL before I do that thanks 4 the heads up
# snyder__ yea wasnt sure if it was a folder then I was going to ask if I put all the known files in it if it is a folder
# snyder__ did that last post make sense to you?
# snyder__ ok so im coping & pasting this into my note pad lol
# snyder__ I just went back & i missed the part u said to load everything to root as a zip file
# snyder__ i think I grasp the general outline now u filled in a few blanks for me I had. Thank you alot
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# snyder__ kylewm: will do & thank you much for filling in the blanks. Ill be back now that ive found this community ;-)
# snyder__ im going to watch that utube video someone posted think it was bret
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# addal So implemented https://webmention.herokuapp.com/ on my site...can I just tweet about my site or whats a good way to test it
# addal kylewm, sorry yeah havn't actually pushed the update yet
# kylewm you can try replying to your own post first, there is also https://github.com/voxpelli/node-webmention-testpinger
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# addal kylewm, cool thanks. Looks like you can do it with curl too
# addal that'd be easier than setting up node
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# 
@danyork Questions About Known (@withknown) Platform, Webmentions and security / spam http://danyork.withknown.com/2014/questions-about-known-withknown-platform-webmentions-and-security-spam (twitter.com/_/status/511446730206748672)
# Loqi [mention] http://danyork.withknown.com/2014/questions-about-known-withknown-platform-webmentions-and-security-spam linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (webmention)
# 
@grigs @smashingconf a lot of tools @philhawksworth shared are most useful w/ Github. From an indieweb perspective, thoughts on reliance on Github? (twitter.com/_/status/511448618490802177)
# @danyork @benwerd Big question I have coming out of your TWIG interview about @withknown (and #webmention) and spam - See: http://danyork.withknown.com/2014/questions-about-known-withknown-platform-webmentions-and-security-spam (twitter.com/_/status/511451127926517760)
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# 
@philhawksworth @grigs @smashingconf Any centralised service is a challenge to true indieweb, but this SSG approach promotes portability which seems to fit (twitter.com/_/status/511461573475311616)
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# Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/BarnabyWalters/507807250858000384/507811540657901569 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/https (webmention)
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# 
@garethjordan Known, the Indieweb, and one possible future for your digital life. http://www.moongold.me.uk/viewfinder/known-the-indieweb-and-one-possible-future-for-your-digital-life (twitter.com/_/status/511486050749796353)
# 
waterpigs.co.uk edited /HTTPS (+214) "/* Posts about HTTPS */ added post about clients and intermediate certs" (view diff)
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# @garethjordan @garethjordan So there doesn't seem to be a way of inserting hashtags into a Weebly blog post title - add these: #Known #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/511489906318000129)
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# @garethjordan #Known, the #Indieweb, and one possible future for your digital life. http://garethjordan.withknown.com/2014/known-the-indieweb-and-one-possible-future-for-your-digital (twitter.com/_/status/511492149800472576)
# Loqi [mention] http://garethjordan.withknown.com/2014/known-the-indieweb-and-one-possible-future-for-your-digital linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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# 
barnabywalters on switching to HTTPS, have run into a bunch of extra duplication e.g. https://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4Y38Ts/ — looks like https vs http scheme differences should be ignored when doing these URL comparison as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2014Aug/0056.html
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# 
@oliverg . @t listend to the indieweb/withknow cast on twig today. Is there a video where you or s/o else explains about POSSE? (4 me 2 spread...) (twitter.com/_/status/511518300405497856)
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# 
jonnybarnes barnabywalters: your https article I think has a slight error
# barnabywalters jonnybarnes: do elaborate
# jonnybarnes I beleive its considered best practice to not include the root certificate in your certificate chain
# barnabywalters oh dear, did I imply that you should include the root as well as intermediates somewhere?
# jonnybarnes well, cURL for example doen't need the intermediate certs, just the root certs
# jonnybarnes (maybe you didnt imply one needs to include the root cert as well)
# snarfed aaronpk: hope xoxo was great! just fyi, i'm seeing a 500 on webmention.io: https://www.brid.gy/log?start_time=1410789585&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyVQsSCFJlc3BvbnNlIkd0YWc6aW5zdGFncmFtLmNvbSwyMDEzOjc3OTgxNDYwNDc0MTQwOTEyNV8xMzA5MDA0NDc3X2xpa2VkX2J5XzE0NjAzNzYyOQw
# barnabywalters jonnybarnes: “cURL doesn’t need the intermediate certs” — I found that to not be the case, which is exactly what the article is about
# barnabywalters jonnybarnes: also I added some clarifications to ensure that people don’t get the idea that they should be sending root cert
# barnabywalters jonnybarnes: rather, to clarify: cURL doesn’t require the intermediate cert to be *sent* (although it should be), but it does require the intermediate cert in it’s cert bundle
# barnabywalters snarfed: huh, looks like unicode issues :/
# jonnybarnes I though it was the other way round, given that most people will only point cURL to a CA bundle of root certs, one needs to send the intermeidate certificate as well
# jonnybarnes i.e. Al has his server configured incorrectly
# barnabywalters jonnybarnes: Al’s configuration works fine, but only now that I’ve added StartSSL’s intermediate certs to my bundles
# barnabywalters they weren’t in there by default
# barnabywalters and I want my tools’ HTTP behaviour to mirror web browsers as much as possible, to avoid difficult-to-debug issues like these
# jonnybarnes yes, but this is the point of identity verification: Al can't expect that every peice of software that interacts with his site to have all the intermeidary certs loaded laready
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# barnabywalters jonnybarnes: nope, so he *should* be sending the intermediate cert, but I want my tools to work successfully as much as possible
# barnabywalters e.g. if someone subscribed to Al’s site in Shrewdness, I don’t want it to say “nope, he hasn’t quite set his TLS up right” when it could securely, successfully subscribe
# jonnybarnes barnabywalters: fair point
# barnabywalters and when they can see his HTTPS site in their browser
# jonnybarnes out of curiosity when do StartSSL's intermeidary certs expire?
# barnabywalters not sure
# barnabywalters I would like to add a warning to indiewebify.me if this issue is detected, warning the site owner that their site might not work successfully with other sites
# barnabywalters or just add a link/embed ssllabs.com’s testing UI
# jonnybarnes what language is indiewebify.me written in?
# barnabywalters PHP
# jonnybarnes im not sure if itll read the whole chain though
# barnabywalters oooh interesting
# jonnybarnes Im sure someone already "answered" this on StackOverflow with the right search terms
# jonnybarnes something like this might work http://stackoverflow.com/a/3081093/12854
# jonnybarnes and as it says, you can then use the openssl_ functions to verufy things
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# jonnybarnes also I've been reading too much about Guzzle and cURL in the last few days!!! https://github.com/guzzle/guzzle/issues/819
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# barnabywalters wow
# barnabywalters this is ridiculous. Sounds like the problem is spread across Guzzle, cURL, homebrew and the system
# jonnybarnes yeah, its not really a problem with either homebrew or guzzle, its speicifically a problem with cURL when compiled against Apple's darwinSSL securty library
# jonnybarnes at least the version of darwinssl that comes with Yosemite
# jonnybarnes the knock on being that then things like Guzzle don't work
# barnabywalters yeah but Guzzle is shipping (for the moment) with an incomplete cert bundle
# barnabywalters which is now what my software does
# jonnybarnes is it? or is it only shipping with root certs?
# barnabywalters it’s not shipping with intermediate certs and therefore not mimicking browser behaviour and therefore confusing developers and users
# barnabywalters if it could fetch them automatically there would be no issue but as far as I can tell cURL can’t be made to do that
# jonnybarnes maybe open an issue and see what mtdowling says?
# barnabywalters I think glennjones mentioned that there’s a node package which downloads intermediate certs on the fly
# barnabywalters yeah that might be an idea. not entirely sure what to ask though
# 
glennjones Yes I have used https://github.com/coolaj86/node-ssl-root-cas to sort issue with intermediate certs
# barnabywalters well if Guzzle has write permissions to a directory/file where the bundle is stored, then a similar thing could be built for PHP
# barnabywalters although really it’s probably better to try to use the system bundle, which is what the next version will apparently do
# jonnybarnes it could download intermediate bundles and store them in a cache
# barnabywalters glennjones: wow, that’s a great example of a good project README
# barnabywalters maybe I should just rewrite everything in node :P
# gRegor` lisp
# barnabywalters go
# gRegor` Not enough indieweb stuff in lisp :)
# barnabywalters [INSERT HIPSTER LANGUAGE OF CHOICE]
# gRegor` Hehe
# gRegor` I've only skimmed this SSL conversation, but it seems the takeaway is . . . ssl is really hard and kinda messed up? (as usual)
# jonnybarnes indeed gRegor`
# barnabywalters gRegor`: TLS itself seems okay, it’s the surrounding ecosystem which is a nightmare
# gRegor` I've only scratched the surface on TLS, but I wish more of a web of trust model was feasible instead of root certificates.
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# 
ben_thatmustbeme oh yay, internet is back
# ben_thatmustbeme been in and out all morning
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# 
@JRDingwall New #diigo bookmark IndieWebCamp http://indiewebcamp.com (twitter.com/_/status/511539679033057280)
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# barnabywalters kylewm: RE https://github.com/barnabywalters/shrewdness/issues/33, I’ve noticed this too — thanks for raising the issue!
# barnabywalters argh so many shrewdness bugs to fix
# 
tantek barnabywalters: that thread http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2014Aug/0056.html is way too long - can't possibly read through the whole thing
# 
@Jzanen IndieWeb advocates launch Known so bloggers can be social and still control their content https://gigaom.com/2014/09/11/indieweb-advocates-launch-known-so-bloggers-can-be-social-and-still-control-their-content/ via @gigaom (twitter.com/_/status/511542567809613824)
# barnabywalters tantek: the relevant part is “If two URIs differ only in the 's' of 'https:', then they may never be used for different things.”
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# barnabywalters which is consistent with my experiences with shrewdness and taproot
# gRegor` barnabywalters: Do we need approval before trying out shrewdness? I just authed successfully and it says "You must be logged in to view this page"
# barnabywalters gRegor`: yup, it’s invite-only at the moment
# barnabywalters I’d give you an account but my superfeedr bill is racking up and I need to impliment my own polling infrastructure before letting anyone else sbscribe to more stuff :)
# gRegor` No worries :)
# barnabywalters switching locations, bbiab
# barnabywalters tantek: PuSH is implemented first
# barnabywalters but there needs to be some fallback, which at the moment is superfeedr
# barnabywalters tantek: yep, I’ve considered that
# 
@kyle_wm @oliverg @t’s recent talk here is really good http://www.youtube.com/ … more: http://indiewebcamp.com/videos_about_the_indieweb#2014 (twitter.com/_/status/511543348809592832)
# Loqi [mention] https://kylewm.com/reply/2014/09/15/1/tantek-c-elik-tantek-s-recent-talk linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/videos_about_the_indieweb#2014 (webmention)
# barnabywalters might be a good option, in addition to buildign my own polling
# barnabywalters tantek: shrewdness only supports PuSH 0.4 with arbitrary (HTML) content
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# barnabywalters which is still pretty easy to implement, but not as widely supported or documented
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "PuSH 0.4" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=PuSH+0.4
# barnabywalters what is PuSH 0.4?
# barnabywalters huh, multi redirect
# tantek barnabywalters: the http://indiewebcamp.com/PubSubHubbub doens't have a clear "How to" "PuSH 0.4" section
# 
tantek.com edited /PubSubHubbub (+229) "add Why section, put "How to" immediately after IndieWeb examples" (view diff)
# barnabywalters oh btw, both waterpigs.co.uk and Shrewdness got upgraded to HTTPS by default today (apart from external content as yet)
# barnabywalters A+ on ssllabs but still only level 3 due to external mixed passive content
# gRegor` barnabywalters++ for https
# barnabywalters tantek: on shrewdness, yes, loads. Taproot, less so, just a few assets per page typically
# barnabywalters but I’m making a middleware thingy to cache them locally, so it won’t be a problem for long
# barnabywalters sort of, but for any external image assets
# barnabywalters e.g. images in posts in shrewdness, or poster images of videos
# barnabywalters the idea being to just show the poster with a play button then load on click, for performance+privacy
# tantek.com edited /PubSubHubbub (+623) "write up a How to PuSH 0.3 off the top of my head with roughly the info I used to get mine working, move notes about 0.4 into a how-to sections, likely needs more "how-to"-ness" (view diff)
# barnabywalters superfeedr or google
# barnabywalters I use the google hub
# tantek I move your 0.4 "how to" to here: http://indiewebcamp.com/PubSubHubbub#Publish_PuSH_0.4
# Loqi tantek meant to say: I moved your 0.4 "how to" to here: http://indiewebcamp.com/PubSubHubbub#Publish_PuSH_0.4
# tantek could you update http://indiewebcamp.com/PubSubHubbub#Publish_PuSH_0.4 with your latest thoughts / experience?
# tantek and your indieweb example http://indiewebcamp.com/PubSubHubbub#Barnaby_Walters says you use superfeedr hub not google hub
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# tantek.com edited /PubSubHubbub (-3) "/* Why */ promptness more than efficiency for point 1" (view diff)
# waterpigs.co.uk edited /PubSubHubbub (+0) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ superfeedr -> google’s hub" (view diff)
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# barnabywalters bbiab
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# 
ShaneHudson Mentioned to someone about starting university young and their reply was "You can't have done, you don't have a wikipedia page" LOL
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# tantek aaronpk, add "ugh, emoji are confusing my DB" to /database-antipattern ;)
# ben_thatmustbeme hey guys
# 
@wraithgar My indieweb experiment has failed (partly) http://danger.computer/2014/09/15/ditching-docker-gitlab (twitter.com/_/status/511563848692666368)
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# 
@kevinmarks You know, @theory @quinnnorton, we have already done that with #indieweb see http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (twitter.com/_/status/511574782534373376)
# Loqi [mention] http://known.kevinmarks.com/2014/you-know-theory-quinnnorton-we-have-already-done-that-with linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (webmention)
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# Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/kevinmarks/511574782534373376/511575235007881216 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (webmention)
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# tantek the response to kevinmarks's tweet is telling: https://twitter.com/theory/status/511575235007881216
# 
@theory @kevinmarks @quinnnorton Huh. I killed Pingback on my site because it was just a big fat vector for spam. (twitter.com/_/status/511575235007881216)
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# tantek until there are IndieWeb Examples on "how I'm avoiding spam" on http://indiewebcamp.com/spam - we haven't "solved" the spam problem
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# tantek KevinMarks: just mentioned the reply to tyour tweet. see /irc/today
# 
KevinMarks Hm, webmention.herokuapp.com seems to be repeating itself http://www.kevinmarks.com/xoxofest2014a.html
# 
@fritzbogott @19f3_records Have you taken a look at http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE Looks promising! h/t @debcha (twitter.com/_/status/511577358147805184)
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# 
@indieboxproject @stopthecyborgs @charlieok @bruces #indyIOT: I like it! Or better #indieIOT to go with #indieweb, indie music etc.? (twitter.com/_/status/511578614551179266)
# 
@Johannes_Ernst RT @indieboxproject: @stopthecyborgs @charlieok @bruces #indyIOT: I like it! Or better #indieIOT to go with #indieweb, indie music etc.? (twitter.com/_/status/511578966553939968)
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# KevinMarks It's saying everything twice within the post though
# Loqi voxpelli_: tantek left you a message on 9/12 at 9:34pm: looks like Twitter removed this image https://dev.twitter.com/sites/default/files/images_documentation/bird_black_16_0.png which I noticed you were/are using too: https://github.com/voxpelli/node-webmention-testpinger/blob/master/templates/tantek-com.html#L68
# Loqi voxpelli_: tantek left you a message on 9/12 at 9:38pm: looks like the new URL is https://g.twimg.com/dev/sites/default/files/images_documentation/bird_black_16_0.png
# Loqi voxpelli_: tantek left you a message on 9/12 at 9:40pm: and pull request: https://github.com/voxpelli/node-webmention-testpinger/pull/8 (figured I might as well since I figured out the rest ;) )
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# snarfed voxpelli_: maybe default to just e-content, and fall back to p-name only if there's no e-content? sounds like that's the recommendation here: http://indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation##text+of+the+comment
# ben_thatmustbeme hmmm, micropub doesn't really support multiple in-reply-to links does it
# 
@stopthecyborgs @indieboxproject @charlieok @bruces cool can't believe noone coined it before should connect with #indieweb also check out the #VRM stuff (twitter.com/_/status/511582174081187840)
# KevinMarks So is Ben Werdmüller
# ben_thatmustbeme i was thinking about it, as I was going to add multiple reply links,
# @indieboxproject RT @stopthecyborgs: @indieboxproject @charlieok @bruces cool can't believe noone coined it before should connect with #indieweb also check … (twitter.com/_/status/511582471628914688)
# KevinMarks Because bridgy puts the description in?
# dlyke Is there any standard for "From this RSS feed or this page, get back to an OPML file that the site publisher thinks are relevant other RSS feeds?"
# ben_thatmustbeme and i use the micropub interface i made as the main interface
# ben_thatmustbeme my concern is that in theory a url could have a comma in it, couldn't it?
# dlyke I'd like to do a "find sites which might reference a posting on one of the RSS feeds I read..."
# ben_thatmustbeme they could be in the fragment aaronpk
# ben_thatmustbeme i thought they could be in the URL too
# dlyke But you can put a comma directly in a URL.
# dlyke Encoding it as %2b is optional. I think. Skimming the W3c spec right now.
# dlyke I seem to remember that spaces must be encoded as "+", so space would be a good list separator.
# dlyke (Sorry, just tuned in in the middle of this)
# ben_thatmustbeme ',' was reserved character as i understand, just like '?' or '&'
# ben_thatmustbeme they have special meaning
# ben_thatmustbeme but are still in the URL
# dlyke from the BNF in the URL spec: extra ! | * | " | ' | ( | ) | ,
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# ben_thatmustbeme dlyke, from what i saw, sub-delims = "!" / "$" / "&" / "'" / "(" / ")" / "*" / "+" / "," / ";" / "="
# dlyke and the "path" portion contains segments, the segments contain xpalphas, which eventually map back to a set of xalphas
# KevinMarks voxpelli do you see the issue on my page?
# dlyke ben_thatmustbeme, I'm not seeing "sub-delims" in http://www.w3.org/Addressing/URL/url-spec.txt
# dlyke I see httpaddress h t t p : / / hostport [ / path ] [ ? search ]
# dlyke And then follow "path" down through it's def to a set of xalpha.
# snarfed voxpelli_: in this specific case, i think p-summary is a red herring, since bridgy mf2 often doesn't have it. see e.g. https://www.brid.gy/comment/twitter/kevinmarks/511308494947876864/511385288518557696 . it's just p-name and e-content.
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# ben_thatmustbeme dlyke from /fragmention For future reference. Valid characters as per URL spec are: ALPHA / DIGIT / "-" / "." / "_" / "~" / "%" HEXDIG HEXDIG / "!" / "$" / "&" / "'" / "(" / ")" / "*" / "+" / "," / ";" / "=" / ":" / "@" / "/" / "?" -Sandeep.io 20:58, 23 April 2014 (PDT)
# ben_thatmustbeme dlyke i was looking at the old RFC3986 , hadn't looked at the new one yet
# 
JonathanNeal interesting
# JonathanNeal about the valid characters in a fragmention, that is
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# dlyke ben_thatmustbeme freakin' morphing "standards" (my biggest "Grrr" is the morphing of semantics of the Reply-To header between RFC822 and RFC2822...).
# dlyke ben_thatmustbeme but that does say that, yes, commas are valid in URLs both in the old docs and the new one.
# ben_thatmustbeme dlyke check rfc3986
# ben_thatmustbeme also mentions "," in http://www.w3.org/TR/media-frags/
# dlyke Last paragraph in 3.3 says that a comma must be treated opaquely as part of the path component.
# dlyke ben_thatmustbeme, so, yeah, there's last paragraph of 3.3, and the BNF: chase path->segment->pchar->subdelims, the comma is there.
# ben_thatmustbeme gets me back to the point of in-reply-to links, perhaps we should be using array of in-reply-to post values
# dlyke ben_thatmustbeme: So http://example.com/this,or,that/?q=r is totally valid.
# ben_thatmustbeme syndicate-to is probably at risk as well
# snarfed voxpelli_: understood. i haven't thought through presentation questions like this much, so i'd usually defer to http://indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation.
# 
voxpelli_ snarfed: looking at http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry#p-name_of_a_note it almost feels like I should ignore p-name based it being marked up as a note? but that feels weird to me
# snarfed (…or for notes *and* replies. http://indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation#How_to_display is about replies specifically, and for those it says not to show p-name at all, which makes sense to me)
# voxpelli_ snarfed: adactio's comment on my http://voxpelli.com/2013/12/webmentions-for-static-pages/ is an example of a post with a title mentioning someone ;)
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# kylewm also, ellipsis isn't the only difference, e.g. https://www.brid.gy/like/twitter/kevinmarks/511308494947876864/wubbahed
# gRegor` catches up
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# gRegor` Is the use-case here knowing when to display so-and-so "mentioned this in [post title]"? vs just "mentioned this in a note"?
# voxpelli_ gRegor`: use-case is me wanting to deduplicate the content of KevinMarks webmentions: http://www.kevinmarks.com/xoxofest2014a.html
# gRegor` Hm
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# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "transmat" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=transmat
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "registerProtocolHandler" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=registerProtocolHandler
# tantek !tell voxpelli_ could you write a stub for http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=registerProtocolHandler ?
# tantek !tell voxpelli,voxpelli_ could you write a stub for http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=registerProtocolHandler ?
# Loqi voxpelli_: tantek left you a message 36 seconds ago: could you write a stub for http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=registerProtocolHandler ?
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# gRegor` I guess I'm overlooking the scenario where someone writes an article that's in-reply-to one of my articles/notes...
# gRegor` But I don't currently do anything with the name. If the wm has in-reply-to, I display the content. Otherwise I display "mentioned this"
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "AppEngine" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=AppEngine
# 
KartikPrabhu wordpress people! Anyone know the rules to modifying SemPress. I don't understand the huge GPL license file
# KartikPrabhu pfefferle: I don't want to change the actual SemPress theme, only edit it to better suit a friends' website needs
# gRegor` Basically it's "do what you want with it" and if you redistribute it, the GPL license has to be included, right?
# KartikPrabhu aaronpk: aah yes that is what I suspected
# gRegor` "changes you make must be GPL" is what i meant, but that only applies if you're distributing it, right?
# KartikPrabhu gRegor`: but if I use it on a friends site it is being distributed no?
# gRegor` No, that's not my understanding.
# KartikPrabhu aah ok
# gRegor` Ah yeah, good point on js
# gRegor` :)
# KartikPrabhu aaronpk: gRegor` pfefferle: so it seems if I modify SemPress and only keep it on the server then it should be fine. If I release it/put on github then it should be GPL
# tantek !tell Shanehudson you should stub http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=User:Shanehudson.net&action=edit&redlink=1 with an h-card (name, url), and add a list of what you're "Working On" as well as any "Itches"!
# KartikPrabhu thanks!
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Go" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Go
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "responsive" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=responsive
# KartikPrabhu pfefferle: btw very nicely organised theme files in SemPress :)
# tantek !tell KevinBeynon you should stub http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=User:Kevinbeynon.com&action=edit&redlink=1 with an h-card (name, url), and add a list of what you're "Working On" as well as any "Itches"!
# 
kodfabrik.se created /registerProtocolHandler (+437) "Created page with "
{{stub}} '''<dfn>registerProtocolHandler</dfn>''' is a method on the <code>window.navigator</code> object usable from JavaScript in the browser. With it one can register custom ..."" (view diff)# gRegor` indielawsuits--
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# ben_thatmustbeme brid.gy why do you hate me so?
# ben_thatmustbeme seemed like the webmention timed out
# ben_thatmustbeme i'm thinking of just making webmentions async too, since receiving mentions and pulling in reply-context already are
# ben_thatmustbeme http://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2014/9/15/3/_ published via micropub, everything went smooth, but took a long time loading
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# ben_thatmustbeme don't know yet if it was my end or not
# ben_thatmustbeme probably mine, though its the first time i've pushed to FB in a while.
# ben_thatmustbeme i don't think it did, its probably my end
# ben_thatmustbeme i was just tweaking things to give me twitter/facebook syndication selection for my micropub client
# voxpelli_ !tell KevinMarks Added an issue to track your duplicated comment content here: https://github.com/voxpelli/webpage-webmentions/issues/10
# ben_thatmustbeme snared, was on my end
# ben_thatmustbeme fixed
# ben_thatmustbeme stupid me missing html_entity_decode()
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# ben_thatmustbeme I just need to figure out a method for posting an article instead of a note now. http://ben.thatmustbe.me/new
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# Loqi KevinMarks_: voxpelli_ left you a message 6 minutes ago: Added an issue to track your duplicated comment content here: https://github.com/voxpelli/webpage-webmentions/issues/10
# bret so much progress lately over at http://jekyllrb.com/news/ I gets all these new tools I can't keep up
# 
neuro` bret: no need to do CSS, I only edit vars in the less files. Result: http://t37.net/ in plain bootstrap
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# Loqi [mention] https://www.designingsecurity.com/2014/09/15/https-at-indiewebcamp-uk-2014/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/UK (pingback)
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# bret :D and quill posts its first post to my site that actually went live: http://bret.io/2014/09/15/mojang-sunsets-minec/
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# 
@emax @williamheath any initial impressions? a worthy #indieweb project? better/worse than @tryghost ? (twitter.com/_/status/511618649812377600)
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# 
@portenkirchner Announcing the first beta release - Known 0.6 http://stream.withknown.com/2014/announcing-our-first-beta-release---known-06---named-1 #indieweb #known (twitter.com/_/status/511620251231219713)
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# 
@timretout HTTPS slides from #indiewebcamp UK are now up: https://www.designingsecurity.com/2014/09/15/https-at-indiewebcamp-uk-2014/ (twitter.com/_/status/511623367347425280)
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# KevinAtAppleStor so, what should I try on this air to see if its fast enough
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# finchd Loqi++ indeed
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# KevinAtAppleStor hm, air or pro? it's only $300 more
# sparverius bret: they have one single port afaik
# sparverius KevinAtAppleStor: if you do audio work or high quality audio it'd be worth investing in a decent USB based DAC
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# KartikPrabhu might be of interest here: http://incisive.nu/2014/ditching-twitter/
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# sparverius bret: yes but they're limited and my knowledge of ios is a bit outdated but i believe the device will only run it for a certain amount of time
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# 
@tsepp a comment written on your own site appears as a comment to a post on another - clever http://werd.io/2014/why-cant-you-comment-on-this-post-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/511663812655992832)
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