#indiewebcamp 2014-09-17

2014-09-17 UTC
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waterpigs.co.uk
edited /Taproot (+148) "/* Itches */ updated itches"
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johnmorton
kylewm: No luck yet. Thanks for the help. Try more after dinner :)
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kylewm
!tell techlifeweb check out http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Ftechlifeweb.com#fatal-errors I bet that unparseable character is what he was seeing
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@bsuneja
What does it mean to #OwnYourData in #Office365? How we aim to raise the bar on visibility and control... http://blogs.office.com/2014/09/16/mean-data-office-365-aim-raise-bar-visibility-control-organizations-data-office-365/ #MSExchange
(twitter.com/_/status/512033827418832896)
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@MSFTExchange
What does it mean to #OwnYourData in #Office365? How we aim to raise the bar on visibility and control... http://blogs.office.com/2014/09/16/mean-data-office-365-aim-raise-bar-visibility-control-organizations-data-office-365/ #MSExchange
(twitter.com/_/status/512035832388415488)
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@aristidem
RT @MSFTExchange: What does it mean to #OwnYourData in #Office365? How we aim to raise the bar on visibility and control... http://t.co/ImX…
(twitter.com/_/status/512040016475062272)
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@stevegoodman
RT @MSFTExchange: What does it mean to #OwnYourData in #Office365? How we aim to raise the bar on visibility and control... http://t.co/ImX…
(twitter.com/_/status/512040028907008001)
alexhartley, KartikPrabhu1, alexhart_ and parzzix joined the channel
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parzzix
Good evening everyone...
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parzzix
Who has a self hosted known? How is it as far as customization, themes, and plugins?
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@stopthecyborgs
The Fantasy and Abuse of the Manipulable User http://modelviewculture.com/pieces/the-fantasy-and-abuse-of-the-manipulable-user Something for #indieweb people - cultural not just technical
(twitter.com/_/status/512043296177537025)
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@PramTheMan
RT @MSFTExchange: What does it mean to #OwnYourData in #Office365? How we aim to raise the bar on visibility and control... http://t.co/ImX…
(twitter.com/_/status/512046643953557504)
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kylewm
parzzix: looks like 11 plugins, 7 themes
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kylewm
and an option to override/augment the css with the "Site Styles" plugin
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parzzix
kylewm, thanks....I'm going to install on a droplet...trying to decide if know is the best choice.
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parzzix
Was thinking red wind maybe
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parzzix
i'm a bit indicisive
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kylewm
red wind would probably only be fun for you if you wanted to hack on it
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kylewm
it's in a constant state of flux...
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kylewm
I would bet most everyone here can identify with your indecision though
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parzzix
it would give me a reason to learn python..lol.. the main thing holdong me back on known is PHP
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kylewm
I'm not trying to sell you on Known, but fwiw, it's pretty, well-structured PHP
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kylewm
from what I can tell
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parzzix
gotcha
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parzzix
the wicki had allot of other options...to many to try to judge
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parzzix
wiki even
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kylewm
parzzix: have you gone down the rabbit hole of static site generators already?
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parzzix
no I have not
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@chrisgoosen
MSFTExchange: What does it mean to #OwnYourData in #Office365? How we aim to raise the bar on visibility and control... http:...
(twitter.com/_/status/512050270293860352)
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kylewm
I think we can probably cut the wiki/projects down to 3-4 more realistic options
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kylewm
Known, Wordpress + plugins, Publify, Jekyll or other static generator + webmention.herokuapp
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parzzix
hmmm...choices...Can wordpress cover everything?
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@cposner
RT @MSFTExchange: What does it mean to #OwnYourData in #Office365? How we aim to raise the bar on visibility and control... http://t.co/ImX…
(twitter.com/_/status/512050764605587456)
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parzzix
kylewm, checking out publify on github..seems demo site is down or buggered somehow
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kylewm
hmm... well, neuro` posted a docker image recently that got it up and running on my machine in a few minutes
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parzzix
really.... what is your sites addy? just to check it out
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kylewm
ah sorry just a local machine
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parzzix
ahhh
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@InsyncTech
RT @MSFTExchange: What does it mean to #OwnYourData in #Office365? How we aim to raise the bar on visibility and control... http://t.co/ImX…
(twitter.com/_/status/512052857973927937)
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@Agile_IT
RT @MSFTExchange: What does it mean to #OwnYourData in #Office365? How we aim to raise the bar on visibility and control... http://t.co/ImX…
(twitter.com/_/status/512052904006782976)
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parzzix
I'm just creating a droplet and will install it..just to play
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parzzix
love digitalocean
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parzzix
kylewm, the more I look, known is the most well rounded option
paulcp, KevinMarks, Mark87, yobj, Aeyoun, rknLA, voxpelli_, Leeky, dietrich, mlinksva, benward___, DanToml, bigbluehat, jden, CaptainCalliope, protman, acegiak, leth, npdoty and b0bg0d_____ joined the channel
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aaronpk
just realized that because i'm using the pingback->webmention gateway this will be an interesting test to see if the expiring webmention endpoint cuts down on any pingback spam
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KartikPrabhu
finally interwebs at home. back to indiewebbing. playing with Wordpress and WagTail http://www.mywifiext.net
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GWG
How is the Wordpress going?
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KartikPrabhu
GWG: managed to have a local dev install with local copy/mod of SemPress in it
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GWG
What was the goal?
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KartikPrabhu
now to see if wagtail has better interface or to modify SemPress to be a artist portfolio+blog theme
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KartikPrabhu
GWG: making portfolio type site for a friend and secretly indiewebbing it ;)
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KartikPrabhu
my personal focus is to improve Bundle, but don't want to push that on others for now
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KartikPrabhu
specially since it does not have any posting-interface to speak of
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@daviclif
RT @MSFTExchange: What does it mean to #OwnYourData in #Office365? How we aim to raise the bar on visibility and control... http://t.co/ImX…
(twitter.com/_/status/512097774704553985)
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KartikPrabhu
is that MSFT cashing in on latest trending hastags or is there some substance? ^
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techlifeweb
kylewm: thanks for the validtor link
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Loqi
techlifeweb: kylewm left you a message 4 hours, 34 minutes ago: check out http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Ftechlifeweb.com#fatal-errors I bet that unparseable character is what he was seeing
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aaronpk
expiring webmention endpoints are now live
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aaronpk
on aaronparecki.com
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aaronpk
anyone want to try sending me a mention to test this for real?
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bear
aaronpk - just did
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aaronpk
hey cool it worked!
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aaronpk
I added some logging to see how many errors I get, and I log the current time vs expiration time
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bear
nice
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aaronpk
so sohuld have some interesting stats in a few months
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bear
I have the beginnings of a indie-stats crawler
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bear
i'm generating a json blob each day of site info and mf2 parsed results
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aaronpk
oh yeah I need to add that checkbox for indieauth.com
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bear
working on a simple flask app to allow an indie-auth masked simple endpoint to let folks ping the site to get added to the list
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: this moving webmention endpoint don't seem to be documented
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KartikPrabhu
only in irc I suppose
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KevinMarks_
Danlyke: what are you using for feed parsing? You could launder them through universal feed parser like I did for http://feed.unmung.com
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bear.im
edited /Known (-36) "add note about source change not being required now"
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@MikeGrahamBlog
RT @MSFTExchange: What does it mean to #OwnYourData in #Office365? How we aim to raise the bar on visibility and control... http://t.co/ImX…
(twitter.com/_/status/512120596524978177)
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bear.im
edited /User:Bear.im (+405) "/* Projects */"
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bear.im
edited /User:Bear.im (-387) "/* Projects */"
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bear.im
created /indie-stats (+570) "Created page with "'''<dfn>[https://github.com/bear/indie-stats indie-stats]</dfn>''' is a Python open source [[project]] that will gather mf2 data for IndieWeb domains and generate stats. Generat...""
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bear.im
edited /indie-stats (+0) "fix link"
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KartikPrabhu
bear: is it possible to see the indie-stats data for domains you have already parsed?
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KartikPrabhu
bear.im/domains.json linked from the page 404s
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@mmahdi41
RT @MSFTExchange: What does it mean to #OwnYourData in #Office365? How we aim to raise the bar on visibility and control... http://t.co/ImX…
(twitter.com/_/status/512140604709408768)
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neuro`
Good morning indie Web
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pfefferle
moin moin
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tantek.com
edited /Talk:why (-376) "fixed by removing "How" link which didn't add anything beyond the other see also links"
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KartikPrabhu
hmans: is this the same as your pants?
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KartikPrabhu
these seem like different pants = Python Ants
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KartikPrabhu
neuro`: pfefferle: morning!
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KartikPrabhu
pfefferle: I successfully installed a local version of WP+SemPress... took some doing though
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DWGinNYC
Hi all, I assume this channel is simply for the webcamp -- is there another channel dedicated to the indie web movement in general I can join?
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KartikPrabhu
DWGinNYC: this is the one :)
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DWGinNYC
;) Thanks, I'm plugged in then.
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hmans
KartikPrabhu, no, it's a completely different app, doing something entirely different. It just has the same name.
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KartikPrabhu
hmans: I like your etymology better ;)
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hmans
But considering that it's backed by Twitter, Foursquare and Square, I guess I can't just let it slide.
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KartikPrabhu
hmans: the name scoop is unfortunate
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KartikPrabhu
DWGinNYC: welcome! do you already have a site?
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KartikPrabhu
or are looking to have one?
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DWGinNYC
I've been talking about this for YEARS. Great to finally encounter an organized, or at least, impressed movement about it.
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DWGinNYC
...thought I was going crazy.
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DWGinNYC
Notepad + HTML = You on the web.
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DWGinNYC
Yes, www.davethewebguy.com
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KartikPrabhu
DWGinNYC: nice... start simple. but folks here are also very UI/UX oriented
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DWGinNYC
Heh, well I have a fundamentalist example to make my point, but even I use tools nowadays. :)
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KartikPrabhu
DWGinNYC: I see you already have Twitter etc.. links on your homepage. If you add a rel=me to them, you can log in to the wiki at indiewebcamp.com (and other IndieAuth sites)
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DWGinNYC
...hold on a sec, let me seeee
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DWGinNYC
I'll try it, what do I need to do exactly? Well, generally, I can figure it out. Just point me in the right direction. You mean, edit my Twitter code to include rel = me?
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KartikPrabhu
DWGinNYC: the link that you have for Twitter, you can change it so <a href="twitterURL" rel="me"> etc... and that should suffice
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pfefferle
hey KartikPrabhu … any problems with SemPress or general installation stuff of WordPress?
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KartikPrabhu
oh and link to your homepage from your Twitter profile :)
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DWGinNYC
Okay let me do so and advise here momentarily
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KartikPrabhu
pfefferle: no Sempress problems, just getting all the simlinks stuff so that WP actually sees the local version of the theme I want to edit
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KartikPrabhu
pfefferle: my plan is to edit SemPres so it acts more like a artist portfolio site, instead of a generic indieweb theme. If I think of some useful additions to SemPress itself I'll send a PR your way :)
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DWGinNYC
Okay, done, FYI, I assume we are talking about my Twitter embed at http://www.davethewebguy.com/dwg_blog/display.asp , so, it's added there.
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pfefferle
KartikPrabhu nice, but please use Github instead of a PR… So that I can’t lose the message ;)
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KartikPrabhu
pfefferle: PR = Pull Request on Github :P I've already made a fork there
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KartikPrabhu
DWGinNYC: I was actually talking about the link on your homepage. I actually have no idea where one would put a rel=me in a Twitter embed
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pfefferle
KartikPrabhu oh god… it is too early for my brain :)
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KartikPrabhu
pfefferle: and it is too late for mine :P
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DWGinNYC
KartikPrabhu, ah, not a problem, done there as well.
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bear
KartikPrabhu - oops - i'll fix the link
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KartikPrabhu
DWGinNYC: you seem to have added me="=" , you need to add rel="me"
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bear.im
edited /indie-stats (+12) "fix link"
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DWGinNYC
Yeah, I caught that and fixed. Refresh. :)
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DWGinNYC
I think we are talking about the same error.
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KartikPrabhu
bear: success! I got the json and found myself :P
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bear
cool
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@oknaknci
@kisalar + ettim. Peki bu indieweb fikri ne anlama geliyor? Indie sözcüÄŸünden dolayı kulaÄŸa hoÅŸ geliyor.
(twitter.com/_/status/512156324793049089)
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bear
I need to add some sort of index page
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bear
for each mf2 file I generate
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KartikPrabhu
DWGinNYC: nice... now if your twitter also link back to your homepage you can log in using your hompage into the wiki
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KartikPrabhu
bear: neat... just bear.im/indie-stats/kartikprabhu.com should be good right?
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@agoracollective
Outcome of our artistic residency, #indieweb summit and smooooothies! Busy week! https://www.facebook.com/agoracollective/posts/781949985161827 (-ms)
(twitter.com/_/status/512156660518096896)
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bear
yes, that contains the last poll
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bear
but i'm also storing them using timestamps
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bear
oh wait
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bear
bear.im/indie-stats/domains/kartikprabhu.com
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KartikPrabhu
oh @agoracollective talking about indiweb on FB ... tch tch
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KartikPrabhu
bear: ok that works too :)
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bear
i'll fix the code so it adds the history list to the main domain json file
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KartikPrabhu
bear: neat! why is the mf2 having relative URLs? are you using an older version of mf2py?
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bear
I may be
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bear
mf2py==0.1.1
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KartikPrabhu
bear: I think a 0.2.0 is out
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bear
let me try and upgrade
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bear
ah - yes
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bear
0.2.1
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bear
i'll clear the history and generate a new set now
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DWGinNYC
KartikPrabhu, ah, if you mean the link at my Twitter profile page, it kind of does, but, it does via a self-written URL shortener. But I can change that if that's the place you mean.
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KartikPrabhu
DWGinNYC: i noticed it links to the blog section not the homepage.
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DWGinNYC
okay, let me do some magic
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KartikPrabhu
awesome now you can try logging in to and add yourself to the list: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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bear
heading to bed - KartikPrabhu if you take the "polled" item from the domains.json for a domain - and strip out the :, - and Z from the time stamp you will get the last polled data
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bear
so yours is 2014-09-17T08:39:08Z == 20140917T083908_kartikprabhu.com
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bear
I haven't settled on a storage pattern yet
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bear
i'm thinking low tech
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bear
bear.im == latest
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DWGinNYC
Working on it, getting error but am troubleshooting.
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tantek
hello from London!
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bear
bear.im_history == list of filenames of history
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tantek
perks up at "storage pattern"
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Loqi
tantek: gRegor` left you a message 12 hours, 2 minutes ago: Made some suggested changes to /Getting_Started I preserved the current live version in the history so you can compare :) http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Gregorlove.com/Getting_Started
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KartikPrabhu
bear: got it. but it still gives a relative urls in the mf2... weird
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bear
tantek - just trying out different ways of storing the polled data i'm generating
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bear
KartikPrabhu - I may be calling mf2 parser() wrong?
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KartikPrabhu
bear: will look into it soon. since you are heading to bed we can postpone this issue for a while
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bear
the code is in the repo if you get a thought or yea, we can talk further about it later
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bear
it's very much in thought-code-test-repeat mode
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DWGinNYC
had to use www.davethewebguy.com versus davethewebguy.com
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DWGinNYC
Kewl thanks!
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DWGinNYC
Adding my name.
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bear
heads out
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www.davethewebguy.com
edited /IRC_People (+82) "/* Nicknames */"
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tantek
DWGinNYC: have you seen no-www.org ?
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: man you are quite the globe-trotter
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KartikPrabhu
DWGinNYC: possibly going through http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started might be a good next step
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tantek
!tell gRegor` your Getting_Started edits look great - ship it. We can fix any styling issues in-place.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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DWGinNYC
Thanks, I'm leaving window open to resume at sunrise -- thanks for your help!
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KartikPrabhu
DWGinNYC: neat! night
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@basegames
Working on a Wrecking Ball game? Will Miley be there?!? #indiegames #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/512168161131913217)
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@TheIndieSloth
RT @basegames: Working on a Wrecking Ball game? Will Miley be there?!? #indiegames #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/512168417353539585)
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@AllGameBot
RT @basegames: Working on a Wrecking Ball game? Will Miley be there?!? #indiegames #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/512169526063292416)
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alexhartley
Hi all, just wondering if anyone would be able to help me with my http://www.brid.gy setup please? Having trouble hooking facebook up...
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tantek
alexhartley: what's your personal site? go ahead and add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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alexhartley
Ok I will thanks. I have a known site set up at http://stream.alexhartley.me which is pulling in twitter mentions, but I can't seem to get brid.gy to recognise the web address on my facebook profile.
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alexhartley.me
edited /IRC_People (+60) "/* Nicknames */"
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alexhartley.me
edited /IRC_People (+0) "/* Nicknames */"
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eschnou and barnabywalters joined the channel
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tantek
alexhartley: great!
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tantek
I'm not sure how to troubleshoot Bridgy in particular for this
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tantek
perhaps add this as part of your user page?
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tantek
and then we can leave a message for snarfed,kylewm to take a look
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alexhartley
tantek: So I just post my issue there? Sorry new to indiewebcamp!
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tantek
alexhartley: no problem at all!
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tantek
we use our User: pages as a place to collect what we're "Working On"
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tantek
go ahead and create your User: page with name, URL, photo if you like, and add a == Working On == section with "Bridgy setup" and the details you noted
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alexhartley
tantek: excellent thanks. I'll do that now.
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tantek
you can check out some of our User: pages as examples too - click through various folks on http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people (especially those with faces :) )
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tantek
!tell benwerd,kevinmarks could you add an indie event and FB POSSE copy for San Francisco to: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-09-24-homebrew-website-club#URLs ?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com
edited /HTTPS (+8) "move Why to the top"
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tommorris.org
edited /HTTPS (+598) "/* Why */ added my justification"
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parzzix
On known, when someone replies to a tweet or post and I want to reply to comment, I can just do it from known correct?
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parzzix
do I still just do @theirname or do i use @their site name?
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tantek.com
edited /HTTPS (+131) "/* Why */ move new why up closer to top add summaries of points"
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tommorris.org
edited /HTTPS (+1) "syntax fix"
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tommorris
tantek: looks good
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tantek.com
edited /HTTPS (+28) "/* Why */ comment authenticity as summary"
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elf-pavlik
sends greetings from http://get-d.net , Brennan Novak also here :)
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tantek
elf-pavlik: excellent! how's your IndieMark support level?
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tantek
also hi bnvk!
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elf-pavlik
tantek, i think quite low :( possibly quite few people control a domain name :D
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jonnybarnes
hello everyone
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tantek
hello jonnybarnes!
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jonnybarnes
I can't do javascript :(
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tantek
that's ok, there's a lot of progressive enhancement positive thinkers here :)
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elf-pavlik
jonnybarnes, we organized 2 JS workshops for http://jsfest.berlin :)
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jonnybarnes
on a sidenote this annoys me, why does berlin get its own TLD but my city of Manchester doesn't. Not fair!
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lewiscowper
a capital of a major European country with a million more people in it than a city in the north of England?
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lewiscowper
London has a TLD
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jonnybarnes
well, when you put it like that?
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jonnybarnes
however I would point out that "Manchester" has about 3.2million people
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elf-pavlik
I think farmersmarket.manchester wouldn't make a nice domain name... maybe airport codes?
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@xtracom_tic
RT @MSFTExchange: What does it mean to #OwnYourData in #Office365? How we aim to raise the bar on visibility and control... http://t.co/ImX…
(twitter.com/_/status/512227328080900098)
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elf-pavlik
farmersmarket.man :D
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lewiscowper
jonnybarnes, according to wikipedia it's 2.7 million in greater manchester
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jonnybarnes
elf-pavlik farmersmasket.mcr
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lewiscowper
but yeah, I think the Berlin/London/Paris TLDs make more sense to figure out where demand lines
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lewiscowper
*lines
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elf-pavlik
tantek, do you know if https://www.brid.gy can aggregate h-cards people publish on their websites?
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tantek
what would it be bridging from and to?
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elf-pavlik
just pulling all the h-cards based on list of people's profiles... i didn't look at bridgy in depth, bnvk just showed it to me
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elf-pavlik
i made small PoC where I can aggregate profiles which use http://schema.org/Person since i publish this way, but would also like to suppor fetching profiles people publish with h-card
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tantek
elf-pavlik: bridgy bridges between two sites
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tantek
pulling all the h-cards based on people's profile is just the *from*
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tantek
what do you propose as the *to*?
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tantek
as in, *to* what other site?
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tantek
and for what use-case?
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elf-pavlik
now it makes people fillup google form to get listed, i can already list myself with data from my website
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tantek
why not have that site parse people's h-cards directly from their URLs?
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tantek
no need for bridgy in the middle
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elf-pavlik
makes sense, i thought bridgy does something similar to directory listings as well
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tantek
oh interesting - that page itself could use h-card
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elf-pavlik
we'll continue with first option supporting formats i publish with and then i hope can work together with bnvk to add another option using h-card, my data (on github, since moving servers now) https://github.com/elf-pavlik/webprofiled/blob/master/test/fixtures/perpetual-tripper/index.json
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elf-pavlik
tantek, have you seen http://jsonresume.org ?
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tantek
elf-pavlik: is that for real?
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tantek
that's just this decade's version of http://xmlresume.sourceforge.net/ right?
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tantek
elf-pavlik: feel free to add jsonresume to http://microformats.org/wiki/resume-formats at least for research / documentation purposes.
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barnabywalters
omg I hadn’t seen xmlresume before
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tantek
barnabywalters: all this JSON-* one-off formats have been done 10 years ago as XML-* formats.
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barnabywalters
what version of HTML was current in 2004?
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tantek
it's just that developers, especially new ones, forget
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barnabywalters
they managed to reinvent <p> -> <para> and <em> -> <emphasis>
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tantek
in 2004, XHTML1 was perhaps considered the most modern
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tantek
barnabywalters: XML culture liked to reinvent things, just as JSON culture does
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tantek
note the reinvention of plenty of vCard/h-card vocabulary in that jsonresume
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barnabywalters
<para>normal markup
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elf-pavlik
someone made issue while ago, suggesting to reuse schema.org https://github.com/jsonresume/resume-schema/issues/42
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tommorris
tantek: I had some fun on twitter with the JSON Resume guys. They've managed to completely botch so many things it's unbelievable.
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elf-pavlik
tommorris, link?
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tommorris
Eh, can't find it now.
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tantek
I'm just going to assume that the jsonresume people are "new" and missed the spate of XML-* vocabularies.
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elf-pavlik
searching with http://snapbird.org
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elf-pavlik
this one could do it at first glance https://github.com/glennjones/microformat-node
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tommorris
Yep, or mf2py or php-mf2 :)
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tantek
elf-pavlik: so can phpmf2 and mf2py
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tantek
pick your language: node, PHP, Python
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tantek
the Ruby parser is a bit behind and could use some help
#
tantek
elf-pavlik: what's your preferred backend language?
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elf-pavlik
i like JS and Ruby
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elf-pavlik
lately mostly Node.js
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elf-pavlik
i would like to fetch h-card and parse them to JSON-LD http://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld/#microformats
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elf-pavlik
this way i can easily store them into LevelGraph with https://github.com/mcollina/levelgraph-jsonld
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tantek
elf-pavlik: what does it need beyond the JSON structure already produced by parsers?
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glennjones
I keep the microformat-node update as I use on my blog ie http://glennjones.net/notes/json and it powers https://transmat.io/
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tantek
elf-pavlik: microformats parsers produce a canonical JSON output
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elf-pavlik
tantek, i haven't looked at mf specific json format
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elf-pavlik
on first thought if i just want to reuse vocab i woldn't need to use it at all
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elf-pavlik
and them mix it with any other vocabs available thanks to RDF / JSON-LD
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tantek
elf-pavlik: you can do all that mixing already in microformats and in the JSON output from microformats
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tantek
so I'm not sure what else JSON-LD adds (or what you need from it)
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elf-pavlik
on my homepage, whenever schema.org doesn't support something i just use another vocab, for example http://smiy.sourceforge.net/cco/spec/cognitivecharacteristics.html#sec-glance
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tantek
elf-pavlik: here are simple examples of the JSON output from microformats parsers: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2#simple_microformats_2_examples
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tommorris
tantek, elf-pavlik: I've been meaning to write some JSON-LD stuff for microformats.org parser output. wouldn't be too hard.
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elf-pavlik
i guess so
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elf-pavlik
BTW @LDPWG just made JSON-LD a MUST https://twitter.com/lehors/status/512088825888133120
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@lehors
New LDP Last Call spec from the @LDPWG with upgraded support for JSON-LD! (MUST!) /cc @manusporny @Gkellogg See http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/WD-ldp-20140916/
(twitter.com/_/status/512088825888133120)
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elf-pavlik
s/New/Now/
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tantek
btw elf-pavlik,tommorris since this is a generic vocabulary/syntax discussion re: microformats, we should probably do it in #microformats
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@hiperterminal
@PibeGeek @Patton Yo ando bajando mi información de todo lado para tenerla en mi nube. #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/512248003726675968)
snarfed, gRegor`, hugoroyd, DanToml, tommorris, lmjabreu___, mattl, b0bg0d_____, Aeyoun, hadleybeeman, benward___, jden, jancborchardt, Garbee, CaptainCalliope, kronda_ and Phae joined the channel
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djmadeira
I’m new to the IndieWeb movement; how do most people go about doing @mentions on their site without creating a twitter dependency?
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djmadeira
for example, if I wanted to do POSSE on my site and support mentions, but not have those all break if/when twitter goes out of business
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djmadeira
seems like most of the indieweb stuff is tied to domains; could I use @bennannovak.com as the mention, use indieauth if supported to find the twitter handle, and make that the link dynamically using a CMS?
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tantek
djmadeira: you can send webmentions directly to other indieweb sites
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tantek
you don't have to go through Twitter
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djmadeira
right, but if I want to go POSSE
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djmadeira
and I want to basically tweet from my site (notes)
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tantek
POSSE is only for when you want to specifically stay involved with one or more specific silos
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djmadeira
How should I handle @mention ing? should I at all? should it always be a rel=webmention
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tantek
to stay in touch with your friends on those silos
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tantek
the indieweb @-mention equivalent is simply linking to someone's home page and then sending a webmention to them
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djmadeira
ok
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tantek
no need for rel=webmention those links, in fact that's not what that means
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tantek
rel=webmention is for discovery of webmention endpoints
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djmadeira
oh
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tantek
see indiewebcamp.com/webmention
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kylewm
djmadeira: this may be helpful too http://indiewebcamp.com/nicknames-cache
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Mark87
anybody use phpmf2?
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tantek
Mark87: lots of folks here!
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Mark87
I'm looking at the github, and I don't know how to install it. I just want to require() it, call a fetch() function and get back some php objects representing the data. Can it do that?
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tantek
pretty sure it can work like that
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barnabywalters
Mark87: yep, download src/Mf2/Parser.php and call Mf2\fetch() or Mf2\parse()
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tantek
barnabywalters: perhaps you could stub that on the wiki?
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tantek
what is phpmf2?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "phpmf2" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=phpmf2
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tantek
what is mf2php
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "mf2php" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=mf2php
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tantek
what is php-mf2?
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Loqi
php-mf2 is a superb open source PHP microformats2 parser that also supports classic microformats per the microformats2 parsing specification http://indiewebcamp.com/php-mf2
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barnabywalters
it’s already on the readme, I don’t want to duplicate it because then it’ll go out of date
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tantek.com
created /phpmf2 (+21) "r"
(view diff)
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gRegor`
Composer makes it even easier to install.
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Mark87
Well that is much easier. Why does the Installation readme go on about Composer and GPG keys?
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gRegor`
Recommended.
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Mark87
my eyes glossed over
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Loqi
gRegor`: tantek left you a message 6 hours, 31 minutes ago: your Getting_Started edits look great - ship it. We can fix any styling issues in-place.
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tantek.com
created /mf2php (+21) "r"
(view diff)
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gRegor`
What is composer?
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Loqi
Composer is a package manager for PHP libraries http://indiewebcamp.com/Composer
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barnabywalters
Mark87: because for anything with more than one or two dependencies, composer simplifies things hugely
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barnabywalters
and because you should verify code that you’re running
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barnabywalters
(not that it’s possible in most cases)
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tantek.com
edited /php-mf2 (+4) "/* Composer */ linky"
(view diff)
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barnabywalters
(btw, mf2 is a “superb” parser? /me blushes)
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gregorlove.com
edited /Getting_Started (-19) "Shipping updated version"
(view diff)
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Mark87
thanks, now im gonna see about getting this running
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barnabywalters
Mark87: cool! don’t hesitate to ask if you have any more questions/issues
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gregorlove.com
edited /Getting_Started (+64) "TOC display"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /Getting_Started (-62) "emojicon tweak, no need to float DIV separately"
(view diff)
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jonnybarnes
right, I've implemented a very simple form content persistance on https://jonnybarnes.uk/notes/new
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danlyke
KevinMarks, I'm using Perl's XML::Feed. I could use some sort of proxy for the h-* stuff, but my life really doesn't need more distributed potential points of system failure...
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ben_thatmustbeme
starting a new webapp to give us at least partial indiemark bits as well as some stats on all sites on irc-people
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Mark87
ben_thatmustbeme what bits do you mean?
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ben_thatmustbeme
well at least be able to list who has rel=me auth providers, how many, who has what endpoints (auth, webmention, token, micropub)
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barnabywalters
ben_thatmustbeme: how about building it as part of indiewebify.me?
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ben_thatmustbeme
who has h-feeds linked off the main page. then just curiousity bits for like 'most posts' etc
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ben_thatmustbeme
barnabywalters, I suppose i could give that a try
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kylewm
jonnybarnes: nice work on the localStorage stuff! looks like you went without a library?
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ben_thatmustbeme
actually, that would save me a lot of work
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gRegor`
Seen the /indie-stats project bear is working on?
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barnabywalters
ben_thatmustbeme: that’s exactly what indiewebify.me was started as (an indiemark tracker) but I haven’t been able to give it the attention it deserves
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bret
a+ to tantek for a great IWCUK14 writeup! :)
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jonnybarnes
well I found a project called store that seemed to simplify things across various browsers
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jonnybarnes
bu other than that, self-made
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bear
ben_thatmustbeme - that is the same thing that i've started but I would love to split the work up amongst others
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jonnybarnes
native JS seems to be getting very good these days, with things like querySelector and eventListener
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barnabywalters
jonnybarnes: yup, with a few little syntatic shortcuts it can be very usable indeed
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bret
i still dont quite understand how to use jquery
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barnabywalters
bret: $().()$$$()$’$().$.ajax($$()))$$$))($$)
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neuro`
barnabywalters: is that Lisp?
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bear
ben_thatmustbeme - if you tell me what format you want the data from each domain in I can start deliverying that to you now
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Mark87
tantek do you publish h-entrys on tantek.com?
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bret
barnabywalters: gahhhhh $ does not belong in JS!
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jonnybarnes
bret why not?
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bret
i dunno actually. I dont know jquery clearly
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barnabywalters
Mark87: yup, tantek publishes h-entry, see http://tantek.com/
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bret
;) just joking around
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jonnybarnes
its just a function name i think
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ben_thatmustbeme
bear, my original plan was to just curl and grep for interesting bits, but since it seems there is certainly interest in it, perhaps we should just start a fork of indiewebify.me's git repo
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jonnybarnes
every time you see $() you could write jquery()
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bret
$().()$$$()$’$().$.ajax($$()))$$$))($$)
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bret
s/$/jquery
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Loqi
bret meant to say: $().()$$$()$’$().$.ajax($$()))$$$))($$)jquery
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bret
awwww
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jonnybarnes
oh dear Loqi
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Loqi
who, me?
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barnabywalters
heh, $ is a regex symbol
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bret
$().()$$$()$’$().$.ajax($$()))$$$))($$)
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bear
ben_thatmustbeme - i have already started it earlier this week
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bret
s/\$/jquery
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Loqi
bret meant to say: jquery().()jqueryjqueryjquery()jquery’jquery().jquery.ajax(jqueryjquery()))jqueryjqueryjquery))(jqueryjquery)
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kylewm
this is not really a fair criticism of jquery... yes modern browsers have querySelector now, but that was not always the case
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bear
I have python code that scans each domain and stores data for it
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bret
pats Loqi on the head
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jonnybarnes
kylewm: the only real criticism I had is jquery was not more modular
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jonnybarnes
maybe theyve changed that now but it used to be one ginormous js file
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barnabywalters
jQuery is, for the most part, a well designed abstraction
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barnabywalters
(minus $.ajax, my nemisis)
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ben_thatmustbeme
bear oh nooes. python! *shakes fist* :P do you have the repo public?
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bear
ben_thatmustbeme - I was unaware that indiewebify.me had a stats component (or wanted to have)
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jonnybarnes
i remember reading a list of all sorts of browser inconosistancies that it fixed
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jonnybarnes
barnabywalters: what's $.ajax done to you?
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bear
ben_thatmustbeme yes :) - and it's python because it seemed a natural fit for the backend/cron nature of the task
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ben_thatmustbeme
well, they already have a lot of the parsing for testing various components of the site, the code would basically be just running through all those things for each site and storing results
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barnabywalters
jonnybarnes: so much jargon (some inconsistent) to remember
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barnabywalters
e.g. done vs complete vs success vs error vs fail
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bear
ben_thatmustbeme what language?
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ben_thatmustbeme
bear, i've become a ruby whore, though i work mostly in php...
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ben_thatmustbeme
indiewebify.me is in php
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bear
ugh - php *blech* *pffft*
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ben_thatmustbeme
i'm not far off from just doing this in bash
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bear
I think it can be done in two pieces - we can write the stat parsing bits in anything really and just put them in a dir with a simple calling pattern
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bear
then I can feed the data to it, it generates numbers and populates a datastore
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gRegor`
Mark87: You may have already seen this, but pin13.net is a good tool for testing parsing microformats from any site.
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ben_thatmustbeme
php can be very frustrating for all the inconsistencies in it. I am constantly having to check the order of built in functions
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bear
yea, that is why I keep going back to python - very procedural
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bear
ben_thatmustbeme - what i'm doing now is gathering the html and also running that thru mf2py - then storing both with a timestamp
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Mark87
gRegor thanks! I'm trying to figure out what I want to do with h-entry feeds, using phpmf2 to parse them, when it suddenly stopped showing me h-entry. I must have an error somewhere
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Mark87
h-entry items *
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ben_thatmustbeme
bear, do you store headers for when you curl sites down?
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bear
stores *everything*
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barnabywalters
store all the things
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Mark87
barnabywalters i'll check it out, thanks
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bear
if we work out a simple "here process this payload" call type - we can make it so that anyone can contribute a stat generating code bit in almost any language
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ben_thatmustbeme
this started out of curiosity over who uses the headers vs who uses html <head> for endpoints
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bear
I'll make a change to get a json metadata file that points to a file for headers, content and mf2 for each domain for each timestamp
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ben_thatmustbeme
that would be cool.. just need some central data store, which it sounds like you are already working on
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bear
I was using flatfiles just to avoid the yak shaving of picking a database
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ben_thatmustbeme
flat files is fine for the html and headers
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bear
yea, I kicked the "how to store the stats" question-can down the path
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rascul
bear shelve is fun sometimes
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rascul
well, as long as the file will only be accessed via python
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bear
given the number of php types in the indieweb community I was sticking to json
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rascul
probably a good idea
#
bear
in my editor window right now is a super simple flash app to deliver a json payload of info for a domain for a date
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bear
so that anyone who wanted to consume stats would just give a date range and a domain and they would get back the json of stats
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bear
ugh - what a bad typo s/flash/flask/
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ben_thatmustbeme
i was like REALLY? FLASH???!
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ben_thatmustbeme
so you are storing history of all the html too?
#
Loqi
hehe
#
bear
right now it's not a lot - haven't fired it up for real yet
#
bear
but I wanted to store the html in case a new mf2 parsing feature is added and then we could backfill older stats
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ben_thatmustbeme
okay, but we would script it to basically say on a daily(?) basis, go through and grab the latest data for each site and process a data point using script (X)
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ben_thatmustbeme
bear, i've had success in the past just with a descriptor file of some sort as the go between to allow any language. just have some metadata file in whatever format you want for the python that will tell it how to run my script via shell, and how to interpret results
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bear
ben_thatmustbeme - your describing the same method I normally use
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bear
my preferred choice for that is bash with a known command line pattern
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bear
crunch.sh domain
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bear
crunch.sh domain timestamp
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bear
or something
Mark87, benward___, gavinc, saurik, tantek_ and JonathanNeal joined the channel
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bear
and it would loop thru a directory of crunchers calling each as needed
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snarfed
indie-stats++
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Loqi
indie-stats has 1 karma
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snarfed
bear++
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Loqi
bear has 24 karma
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snarfed
so excited you took this and ran with it!
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bear
it is a neat project that is forcing me to use new tools :)
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snarfed
yeah, learning can definitely "hurt so good" sometimes :P
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ben_thatmustbeme
ack, net split
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ben_thatmustbeme
kicks the net
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ben_thatmustbeme
thats better
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ben_thatmustbeme
bear, if you can get me a sample. i'll work on starting some various stats modules that interest me
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bear
ben_thatmustbeme I sure can - it may not be until later in the day
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ben_thatmustbeme
no problem, whenever
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bear
you can see my first draft of the domain master list at http://bear.im/indie-stats/domain.json
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bear
or is that domains.json
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bear
but yes, I'll get that to you tonight for sure
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bear
that list was seeded from the irc-people list
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snarfed
bear: i just realized bridgy has another, bigger list of domains you could use
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ben_thatmustbeme
ohh, good thinking snarfed
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snarfed
already publicly visible on people's user pages, linked from https://www.brid.gy/users , so no privacy concerns
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snarfed
i can get you a dump if you want
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bear
naa - let me grab it using the code and parse it
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bear
so it can be part of the seed code I have for irc-people
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snarfed
you'd have to fetch each person's user page individually :/ you can if you want to, but the dump would probably be easier
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bear
unless you frown on that I don't mind
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snarfed
will do
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bear
hmm, yea - dump would be better
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bear
because then I can focus on other code and start gathering data
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bear.im
edited /indie-stats (+616) "updated with latest design notes"
(view diff)
#
bear
ben_thatmustbeme ^^ that is what i'm planning on doing tonight and tomorrow
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gRegor`
indie-stats++
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Loqi
indie-stats has 2 karma
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gRegor`
Cool to see momentum on this
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snarfed
bear: done!
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bear
thanks!
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snarfed
ben_thatmustbeme: glad to hear you're working on this too!
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snarfed
!tell http://alexhartley.me/ sorry for the trouble with bridgy! it's actually set up with your FB account fine; the yellow warning banner is just a UI bug that i'm still debugging. apologies for the confusion!
#
snarfed
!tell alexhartley sorry for the trouble with bridgy! it's actually set up with your FB account fine; the yellow warning banner is just a UI bug that i'm still debugging. apologies for the confusion!
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben_thatmustbeme
oh btw, snarfed, brid.gy did not like it when i changed from http to https for everything
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snarfed
ben_thatmustbeme: ruh roh. no?
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ben_thatmustbeme
well actually it liked it fine, it just resent every comment/like again
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ben_thatmustbeme
which i suppose should have been on my end to catch that
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snarfed
ahh interesting
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snarfed
oh you weren't de-duping? ugh sorry :/
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ben_thatmustbeme
its okay, in theory my code doesn't allow it now, but figured i'd let you know
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snarfed
kylewm: if we were to make bridgy de-dupe http vs https links, i wonder if that would go in PPD or somewhere broader...
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snarfed
probably somewhere broader
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kylewm
snarfed: definitely sounds like a posse part discovery bug
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snarfed
kylewm: hmm, maybe…but, straw man, if someone includes an http link to their post, and then we discover the same url via PPD except it's https, we should probably merge them, right?
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snarfed
or if someone includes two copies of a url in their silo post, one http and https. (very very unlikely :P)
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kylewm
hmm, yes i agree with that
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kylewm
it might send two copies right away in that case
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snarfed
yeah. ok. filing
#
@OnTheWebz
RT @t: IndieWebCampUK 2014 Hack Day Demos: HTTPS, #webactions, new & improved #indieweb sites: http://tantek.com/2014/259/b1/indiewebcampuk-hack-day-https-webactions
(twitter.com/_/status/512297128320724992)
#
aaronpk
where can I find more about the progress of indie-stats?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
something funky is going on with my machine.....
#
ben_thatmustbeme
this is the second time today i've hit this issue, its like it has some issue with curling https urls
#
aaronpk
that seems likely
#
aaronpk
hm I want to see if bridgy has trouble sending me webmentions.. guess I need to POSSE something
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bear
aaronpk - yes, i'll be keeping that page up to date with my progress
#
aaronpk
i like the idea of being able to add crunchers in any language
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bear
because of the interest in this i'm moving it from my laptop to one of my servers tonight
#
aaronpk
STDIN -> STDOUT ftw
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bear
yea, it's a pattern i've used in my Ops world before and it's really flexible and scalable
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aaronpk
totally
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aaronpk
that's the basis of Loqi :D
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snarfed
bear++
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Loqi
who, me?
#
Loqi
bear has 25 karma
#
bear
coolness
#
snarfed
aaronpk: any reason you think bridgy's having trouble? i don't see any recent failures on your user pages
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aaronpk
snarfed: I changed to expiring webmention endpoint last night
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bear
and we can add them to a repo and be able to auto-deploy any new hotness
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snarfed
aaronpk: ah right
#
aaronpk
and haven't posted anything since then :)
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snarfed
i just favorited a recent tweet of yours and clicked 'poll now' on https://www.brid.gy/twitter/aaronpk . we'll see!
#
aaronpk
there it goes!
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snarfed
bridgy does cache endpoints, and i saw the discussion about that
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aaronpk
I see "Also setting webmention_endpoint to..." in the logs
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aaronpk
oh nice are you blanking out any parameters that include "token" automatically or something?
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snarfed
no explicit expiration, but in practice it's only 1-2 hrs or so
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snarfed
re: blanking, definitely
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snarfed
spent more effort on that than i care to admit
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aaronpk
so this means if bridgy tries to send another webmention after 5 minutes it will fail?
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snarfed
aaronpk: you rotate every 5m? wow. then yes
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aaronpk
every page request generates a new token that is valid for 5 minutes
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snarfed
ugh. yeah we need to talk then
#
aaronpk
interesting that the webmention spec never explicitly stated whether it's ok to cache the endpoint for a domain
#
aaronpk
it implies that the endpoint should be discovered for each post
#
aaronpk
but was not explicit
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snarfed
we could consider an extra optional param somewhere in discovery that indicates ttl
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snarfed
yeah, understood. but running a service like bridgy, the thought of not caching also makes me :/
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aaronpk
are you caching based on second-level domain?
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snarfed
nah, full domain
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aaronpk
er right
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aaronpk
interesting that that's a sensible thing to do in the indieweb world, but not reasonable for multi-user domains
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aaronpk
(like twitter.com, etc)
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aaronpk
so without caching, you'd need to make an HTTP GET to each target you're sending to. is that actually a lot more work?
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snarfed
aaronpk: hmm really? domain kind of implies that a single party is running it, so they'd just as easily have a single endpoint, and distinguish users based on parsing the source url
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bear
we should be explicit in the TTL IMO
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aaronpk
I dunno I could definitely see how twitter might want unique webmention endpoints per user
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Loqi
yea!
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snarfed
seems unlikely to me, but yeah, debatable
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bear
because it's implied that it could change because it's discoverable
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aaronpk
that's all theoretical at this point anyway
#
aaronpk
there's also the possiblity of caching the webmention endpoint per target URL
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aaronpk
in which case TTL is also important
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snarfed
re extra GETs being more work, the vast majority of links bridgy sees don't have wm endpoints, so i want to at least cache that. i could tighten the cache ttl for endpoints i do discover though
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aaronpk
i think caching a "no webmention endpoint for this domain" flag for several hours is totally reasonable
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aaronpk
tho you may want to invalidate that cache if someone manually clicks the "poll now" button since it's likely to screw up onboarding new users
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aaronpk
caching is hard :(
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snarfed
good idea
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snarfed
heh yes
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snarfed
i have to admit, it seems like in practice, we don't yet have any of the problem(s) that expiring endpoints would solve, right?
#
snarfed
…so i'd probably want to talk a bit more before tuning bridgy for them
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gRegor`
caching is hard, let's go shopping
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bear
this is where I would implement an inverse ttl based on how often you've seen the domain
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aaronparecki.com
edited /DDOS (+189) "/* Indieweb Examples */"
(view diff)
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snarfed
bear: huh. so, the more wms you send to a given domain, the shorter you cache its endpoint?
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bear
hrmm did I say that wrong
#
bear
the more wm's a domain receives the longer the cacche
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jonnybarnes
ssllabs have started flagging SHA-1 signed certs today
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bear
bah - never mind - caching is hard, i'm going shopping
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snarfed
bear++
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jonnybarnes
so anyone with sha-1 signed certs
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Mark87
not that my opinion matters, but thinking about it overnight, I don't like expiring endpoints. They just don't solve anything
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snarfed
right now at least, i vote for the optional explicit TTL or no-cache param. not convinced about the other options yet
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aaronpk
to be fair, right now the spec says (implies) that the webmention endpoint should be discovered for each URL you send a webmention to.
#
aaronpk
so expiring endpoints may not fall entirely within the spec, but unique endpoints per URL certainly does
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Mark87
If you give an explicit TTL, you basically lose all the value of the expiration, which is to prevent the buildup of large lists. With an explicit TTL, I can automate refreshing my large list.
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snarfed
aaronpk: good find, thanks
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snarfed
Mark87: sure. at a high level, i just feel like we're overthinking a problem we don't actually have yet
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snarfed
i know this was discussed a lot over the last 2d; i don't mean to revive that discussion. i'll back away slowly now :P
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Mark87
I wonder is there a link to discussion of the spec while it was still being developed?
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Mark87
not the last two days, but webmentions itself
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aaronpk
i'm logging stuff about my webmention endpoint now so i'll be able to share some stats soon
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Mark87
I feel like all the problems would be solved if the spec called for the actual html of the page being POSTed to the webmention endpoint. Then it doesn't have to perform a GET back at all. I'm curious if anyone discussed something like that
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aaronpk
that's just a giant spam vector
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gRegor`
My StartSSL is apparently SHA1withRSA
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Mark87
its a spam vector no matter what
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bear
that's a amplification attack in the making
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Mark87
the same moderation would be used on the posted page as would be used on the retrieved page
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Mark87
read moderation=anti-spam-procedures
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jonnybarnes
its fine for now gRegor` but Google Chrome will start complianing
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aaronpk
you can't trust the contents of the POST, so you'd have to go fetch the real URL to verify it anyway
#
@SubhuTech
Out in the Open: A Blogging Tool That Lets You Actually Own What You Post on Facebook: All... http://www.wired.com/2014/09/known/ #Enterprise #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/512306347355164672)
#
gRegor`
reads up on how to upgrade
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Mark87
well I have though about that, in what way couldn't you trust the POST contents.
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bear
it kinda boils down to this in my brain - the webmention discovery is via GET - if the server returns ETAG or cache headers then they should be honoured
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aaronpk
bear++ good idea
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Loqi
bear has 26 karma
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Mark87
bear good call
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bear
that solves the issue in my opinion
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aaronpk
Mark87: you can't trust the POST contents because you can trivially imagine getting a POST request that says "google.com likes your post"
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snarfed
bear: good point
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gRegor`
I guess I have to wait for renewal of my cert, or pay a fee to revoke my SHA1 now.
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Mark87
@aaronpk ahhh, I was thinking about trusting the content of the post, trusting the origin of the content is an issue I missed
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bear
hmm, did not know about that webmention github repo - going to have to review it to see if ronkyuu is compliant
#
bear
gRegor` or generate a new one with a www. or somesuch
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gRegor`
Not sure I follow, bear. Wouldn't that leave the non-www current as SHA1?
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bear
I do believe I walked thru webmention.org when writing it
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aaronpk
gRegor`: you can just stop using your current one
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bear
when you generate a non-wildcard cert you can have alt name - some vendors allow you to get a new one that way without forcing you to expire it
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bear
or yes, you can always just get a new one and move on
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gRegor`
I'm a noob to all this. I'll have to look into it more later.
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gRegor`
I think StartSSL charges for the new one, because it means revoking the old one.
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aaronpk
i've definitely got a few abondoned startssl certs lying around because I don't want to pay to revoke them
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bear
some vendors - like startssl - won't let you replace a cert that has the same csr
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aaronpk
no you can just generate a new one at startssl, it just has to have a unique subdomain
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bear
aaronpk - right, that's what I was trying to say with the www. comment above
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bear
words are hard, i'm going shopping
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aaronpk
and since I don't actually use "www." I end up with things like "web." or "mail." when I need a new one
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gRegor`
But will that work with my non-www domain? I don't have www
#
@GraficusDesign
Out in the Open: A Blogging Tool That Lets You Actually Own What You Post on Facebook http://www.wired.com/2014/09/known/ #Enterprise #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/512307813201506304)
#
aaronpk
gRegor`: the startssl certs are valid for the second-level domain plus one subdomain
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aaronpk
they usually prompt you to put "www." as the subdomain, but you can choose a different one
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gRegor`
Ah, so I could pick a subdomain even if I'm not using it.
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aaronpk
just like you're not using "www."
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bear
I have www1 thru www23 on one of my certs
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gRegor`
Heh
#
bear
because I keep testing different configs
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gRegor`
Nice. Good to know.
#
kylewm
but then if someone visits https://www.gregorlove.com won't they get a insecure redirect?
#
kylewm
(I haev the same problem with startssl)
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aaronpk
so don't publish that URL anywhere :P
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gRegor`
Hm
#
bear
I also finally just got my org validated because free wildcard certs from startssl was worth that effort
#
aaronpk
bear: yeah I'm considering doing the same. free wildcard certs <3
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gRegor`
I might just wait till next year
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bear
for a personal domain I would just wait
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gRegor`
I still haven't even forced https on all pages, heh
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kylewm
woohoo, laziness validated
#
gRegor`
lazinessl++
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bear
the only reason i'm doing it is because we have a security related business so I have to make sure our SSL stuff is *tight*
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Loqi
lazinessl has 1 karma
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bear
lazinessl++
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Loqi
lazinessl has 2 karma
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gRegor`
I do want to understand ssl better, so might set up sha256 on another domain in the meantime
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bear
gRegorbacktick++
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Loqi
dude
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gRegor`
sweet
#
bear
looks at loqi
#
Loqi
is done
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snarfed
hugs loqi
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Loqi
hugs snarfed
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bear
boo - my site is no longer A+ because of the sha-1 cert
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bear
ok, enough yak shaving and rabbit holes - time for some $dayjob work :)
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snarfed
i know the feeling
eschnou joined the channel
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jonnybarnes
ergh, imessage/facetime has stopped working on Yosemite
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bret
derp
#
@VampirSexKttns
Out in the Open: A Blogging Tool That Lets You... http://www.wired.com/2014/09/known/ #Enterprise #indieweb #Facebook #SocialMedia #technology #music
(twitter.com/_/status/512312319511375872)
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RichardLitt, brianloveswords, npdoty and willnorris joined the channel
#
aaronpk
weird, I got a pingback from a facebook post
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snarfed
whoa really?
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aaronpk
i think it's some weird form of spam
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aaronpk
the FB post didn't link to my article
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aaronpk
must have been sorta manually crafted
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npdoty
Loqi, tell benwerd and erinjo congratulations on the awesome Wired article
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Loqi
dude
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npdoty
"dude"? is that the confirmation message?
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gRegor`
Has to start with !tell
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gRegor`
!tell npdoty Like this
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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npdoty
!tell benwerd and erinjo congratulations on the awesome Wired article
#
Loqi
hober: tantek left you a message 3 weeks ago: did you ever get the photos from IndieWebCamp Hollywood 2013 uploaded anywhere? When you find them, please upload with http://indiewebcamp.com/Special:Upload - thanks!
#
Loqi
npdoty: gRegor` left you a message 22 seconds ago: Like this
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
Loqi
hober: tantek left you a message 3 days, 1 hour ago: http://iamshane.com/videos/2013/5/30/1/backyard-squirrel-buddy Download video link is broken: XML: <Error><Code>AccessDenied</Code><Message>Access Denied</Message><RequestId>DA44D4B4E0CC7D53</RequestId><HostId>HoxOIEepMqbwgEhSEZ323cmTyseXmP+mm5zd6cpn7CjvIp71U5iaeCOBRlMLqVIv</HostId></Error>
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alanpearce
I think it means it didn't understand
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aaronpk
no, it's !tell
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npdoty
ha, hober lurks for months at a time until mocking the dude reference
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snarfed
oh snap
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aaronpk
you can't hide from Loqi
#
parzzix
Does anyone know of a detailed tutorial for installing known?
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#
KevinMarks__
Interesting - pinboard's bookmark schema https://static.pinboard.in/schema.htm
#
Loqi
KevinMarks__: tantek left you a message 8 hours, 45 minutes ago: could you add an indie event and FB POSSE copy for San Francisco to: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-09-24-homebrew-website-club#URLs ?
#
aaronpk
ooookay now I really have some logging
#
@Pinboard
I have no idea what half those fields do anymore, but it seems to hold together pretty well while I sit and tweet all day
(twitter.com/_/status/512319924124270593)
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KevinMarks__
Database antipattern?
#
KevinMarks__
Let's see if I can post an indie event and POSSE copy and edit the wiki on my phone while in line at the dmv
npdoty joined the channel
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KevinMarks__
I already used known to check in as Swarm had wedged itself again
#
parzzix
thanks kylewm
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kylewm
parzzix: and if you learn new stuff that the docs are missing, please add it to http://indiewebcamp.com/Known#How_to
#
@JCCPalmer
This post will be a lot of fun. My first major contribution to my Known website. #withknown #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/512323769507905536)
#
parzzix
kylewm, I just checked out your site...red wind looks nice. Don't know if i'm technical enough to get it going though
#
@ilparone
"Known... lets you keep a copy of whatever you publish and post on your own site" http://www.wired.com/2014/09/known/ by @klintron #internet #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/512324039411773440)
#
kylewm
parzzix: thanks, and yeah it's not really ready for general consumption yet... probably only interesting if you want to write a lot of python
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parzzix
lol...I would like to learn python, but probably not the best way.
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ben_thatmustbeme
i never liked that idea, "I'll open source it when its ready"
#
kylewm
^this dude does a *great* job making it clear that indieweb isn't just known
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ben_thatmustbeme
the wired article looked to be pretty clear about that
#
kylewm
they must've done a good job explaining that on TWiG
#
snarfed
hey lazy indieweb: i'm looking to convert rendered HTML whitespace (specifically line breaks) to the plain text equivalent
#
snarfed
e.g. if you have an article rendered in a browser, possibly including <p>s, <br>s, lists, etc., i'd like to convert that article's html to the equivalent plain text with line breaks that looks as similar as possible
#
snarfed
(…aaand i don't want to embed a browser in my code to do it)
#
snarfed
any ideas?
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bear
I use a markdown parser for that
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alanpearce
call `lynx -dump`?
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bear
because embedded html is allowed
#
bear
yep ^^ was just typing kylewm's link also
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snarfed
kylewm: ooh interesting, thanks
#
ben_thatmustbeme
well br,s and extra spaces are possible but at some point things could be styled by css
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snarfed
ben_thatmustbeme: yes. ignoring css. :P
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snarfed
bear: your markdown parser renders to text as well as html?
#
bear
yea, this type of conversion is always good for isolated chunks
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bear
I thought it did...
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bear
oh - hah - I use html2text for that also!
#
bear
doh!
#
snarfed
lol, that's the answer then
#
ben_thatmustbeme
actually i think i used html2text at one point in the past
#
ben_thatmustbeme
the name certainly looks familiar
#
snarfed
in a single, self-contained python lib no less. better than i dared hope
#
bear
yea, it's a great module - aaron really knew how to code
#
bear
is sad now
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KevinMarks__
Dmv line quicker than manual POSSE - shocking
#
kbs
apropos of nothing, and for the few people here who still use PGP :-) another little tool/idea to do the keybase "lookup-by-social-profile" features (without needing a separate service) over at https://github.com/kbsriram/keypan
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kbs
idea happily stolen from rel=me hacking efforts, so thanks (I think! :)
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Loqi
kbs has 11 karma
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bear
kbs++
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Loqi
kbs has 12 karma
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kbs
hey snarfed and bear :) haven't given up my obsession with pgp yet, I guess
#
bear
never will
#
ben_thatmustbeme
still throws me off getting an e-mail from github mentions by you guys
brianloveswords joined the channel
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kylewm
yeah, it's weird that it doesn't say it's from "GitHub"
#
jonnybarnes
so Im going to have to call Apple to get iMessage and FaceTime working on my laptop again :(
#
bear
that always messes with me also
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ben_thatmustbeme
huh, best way to contact me would then become to github mention me
#
bear
i'm constantly going "why are they emailing me about brid.gy...?"
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ben_thatmustbeme
i should create a repo thats just posse from my notes as git commit messages
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Loqi
definitely
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bear
github as a notification service
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ben_thatmustbeme
could be really interesting
#
ben_thatmustbeme
and lead to everyone immediately turning off mention notifications
#
bear
wow - that aaronpk dude is always 3 steps ahead of us
#
bear
if I hadn't got distracted by work...
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kbs
haha, aaronpk does think up cool stuff :)
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kylewm
amusingly i think aaronpk only gets github notifications via IRC
#
aaronpk
this is true
gRegor` joined the channel
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bear
I so need to get that going again, but with xmpp instead ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme
snarfed++ github as messaging
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Loqi
snarfed has 46 karma
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snarfed
oh god no, for the record, i am *not* advocating that :P
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snarfed
just funny
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elf-pavlik
snarfed, hi :)
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snarfed
hi elf-pavlik!
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elf-pavlik
nice work with: bridgy !
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snarfed
thanks!
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elf-pavlik
i guess you need to deal with many APIs ?
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snarfed
heh, oh yes
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elf-pavlik
searching for video...
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elf-pavlik
what do you think about Hypermedia APIs ? https://twitter.com/mamund/status/479319909621440514
#
@mamund
RT @layer7: Video: REST, Hypermedia, and the Semantic Gap: Why "RMM Level-3 REST" is not enough - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkAt9XSOfaE
(twitter.com/_/status/479319909621440514)
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snarfed
i'm not familiar with hypermedia, sorry
#
elf-pavlik
i recommend checking it out, i see it as nice way for programmable interaction
#
elf-pavlik
if you like interactive playgrounds
#
elf-pavlik
BTW how can i merge those thow accounts on bridgy?
#
elf-pavlik
3 :)
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snarfed
there's no way right now. is there something specific you wanwhat would you want hmm. what do you mean by merge?
#
snarfed
er, sorry, mistyped
#
elf-pavlik
i guess i don't understand this bridging concept... Branan just showed it to me
#
gRegor`
I don't know much about JSON-LD, but think Shane made some good points: http://iamshane.com/articles/2013/8/8/1/json-ld-is-an-unneeded-spec
#
elf-pavlik
LOL ;-) have you read Manu's reply? http://manu.sporny.org/2013/json-ld-is-the-bees-knees/
#
elf-pavlik
we need to ask him to implement webmention :D
#
snarfed
elf-pavlik: looks like you're set up on bridgy ok. your next step is to add webmention to one of your web sites.
#
elf-pavlik
i think i better do it even just to learn it and provide in polyglot manner!
#
elf-pavlik
have you seen http://sockethub.org/ by any chance?
#
snarfed
elf-pavlik: i'm definitely a sockethub fan! (see the bottom of https://github.com/snarfed/activitystreams-unofficial#related-work )
#
bret
damn snarfed, thanks for saving me $500
#
elf-pavlik
cool! we just met with Nick again IRL during http://lanyrd.com/2014/decentralizejs/
#
bret
and a major headache
#
snarfed
bret: lol
#
elf-pavlik
happy to see you implemented AS lib!
#
bret
so brid.gy basically taskes AS data from activitystreams-unofficial and layers on a uf2 and wm?
#
bret
endpoint*
#
bret
takes*
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snarfed
bret: yes
#
snarfed
a-u actually also does the to/from uf2 part itself
#
snarfed
elf-pavlik: thanks!
#
bret
dude
#
bret
i need to read through this :)
#
snarfed
go for it! also available as a REST service, per silo
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snarfed
barnabywalters uses that to get twitter streams inside shrewdness
#
Mark87
elf-pavlik you're blowing my mind. This is something I've been dreaming up for a few months now, but using html5 microdata
#
bret
your like the john macfarlane of social networks (pandoc author ;p)
#
elf-pavlik
Mark87, cool! I work on comparing as:Activity with schema:Action https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Vocabulary_Comparison#as:Activity_.7C.7C_schema:Action
#
Mark87
elf-pavlik this hyper jsonld stuff
#
snarfed
bret: that's high praise. thanks!
#
elf-pavlik
Mark87, we had chat with tantek_ and i want to get microformats JSON to JSON-LD conversion https://twitter.com/elfpavlik/status/512252399520866304
#
@elfpavlik
I try to get #microformats JSON as #JSONLD http://tinyurl.com/ohgtqkm @manusporny @MarkusLanthaler @Gkellogg can i do it without Framing? @t
(twitter.com/_/status/512252399520866304)
#
elf-pavlik
i think we could get by with simply defining JSON-LD context and frame
#
gRegor`
"There have been no new Microformats released in the last 5 years and the mailing list traffic has been almost non-existent for around 5 years. From what I can tell, most everyone has moved on to RDFa, Microdata, or JSON-LD." Lulz
#
@dougmckown
Out in the Open: A Blogging Tool That Lets You Actually Own What You Post on Facebook (and Twitter) http://www.wired.com/2014/09/known/ #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/512343810152472576)
#
elf-pavlik
gRegor`, i prefer RDFa over Microdata, also my homepage renders JSON-LD to RDFa which makes sweet templating engine! i need to pull out some stuff from http://viejs.org/
#
snarfed
elf-pavlik: what's your homepage? wwelves.org? that just hangs for me :/
#
elf-pavlik
server i use went down but you can see it rendered at http://elf-pavlik.wwelves.org/
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snarfed
ah thanks
#
elf-pavlik
also try copy its source and paste into http://rdfa.info/play/
#
elf-pavlik
hosting gifted by friends but occasionaly it goes down :(
#
elf-pavlik
once my website gets back up you can also Content Negotiate for application/ld+json
#
techlifeweb
Playing with indicating my stuff is syndicated by including an image with via og:image like http://techlifeweb.com/images/tlw-syndicated-60x60.png
#
aaronpk
elf-pavlik: I'd really like to see some examples of this stuff on your own website. I hope you can get the server back up soon!
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elf-pavlik
sure, i have very little ATM, to put more up i want to use some way of managing collections, like https://www.w3.org/community/hydra/wiki/Collection_Design
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elf-pavlik
can i with microformats make relation saying "web page with list of all people i know" ?
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elf-pavlik
as you can see for now i have only very primitive functionality in https://github.com/elf-pavlik/webprofiled
#
kylewm
I was wondering the same thing yesterday, whether there is a rel= value for an XFN page
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kylewm
(i.e., so you could find the contacts list from someon's homepage)
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elf-pavlik
kylewm, have you looked on linke to hydra:Collection i just shared?
#
kylewm
looking
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elf-pavlik
aaronpk, snarfed, Mark87 could you point me to someone participating in #indiewebcamp who digs and even better likes RDF? :)
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Mark87
elf-pavlik I'm new here, but im sure somebody around here is interested in RDF
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elf-pavlik
Mark87, cool!
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aaronpk
um tommorris has done some stuff i think
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aaronpk
not many others
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elf-pavlik
i help friends with converting some of their data into RDF, for example https://data.openoil.net/#nigeria_production
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elf-pavlik
with JSON-LD and various vocabs from http://lov.okfn.org it looks doable
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elf-pavlik
i wonder how far i could get with complex datasets if i try to model them with microformats ...
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gRegor`
There's no http://indiewebcamp.com/RDF page, so I don't think there's many. Wiki additions with your experience are welcome, though.
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elf-pavlik
gRegor`, ha, good point!
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tommorris
Am happy to help. Just not right now. Busy. ;)
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elf-pavlik
tommorris, cool!
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KartikPrabhu
elf-pavlik: I used to write RDF but then found that microformats is much easier and does the same thing
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elf-pavlik
KartikPrabhu, do you know examples of some complex datasets which use microformats? can construct graph from such data?
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KartikPrabhu
elf-pavlik: never needed to do that. Microformats only has stuff that people want to use on websites
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elf-pavlik
tommorris, i can recall you from last Social WG teleconfs https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/invited-experts
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KartikPrabhu
also what is a complex dataset example? I am sure I can write it in a microformats syntax ;)
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aaronpk
how about start with something that is published on your site, elf-pavlik
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elf-pavlik
soon i'll add places i visited, events participated in, people i know, wishlists of things i can give or receive etc
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aaronpk
theoretical examples are not super useful, so I'm interested in things that you have actually published
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KartikPrabhu
elf-pavlik: what aaronpk said^^
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elf-pavlik
aaronpk, i made mirror for the time server stays down http://elf-pavlik.wwelves.org/
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elf-pavlik
no content negotiation though ...
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KartikPrabhu
I am sure I have theoretical dataset examples that even RDF would find complex
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elf-pavlik
KartikPrabhu, of course but does it help us? ;)
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tommorris
elf-pavlik: yep that is true
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elf-pavlik
aaronpk, also next week i hope to get 2or3 out of those down https://github.com/elf-pavlik/webprofiled/issues
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aaronpk
cool, glad you got that up on a mirror for now!
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elf-pavlik
KartikPrabhu, I also need to publish data from my usage of public transport
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KartikPrabhu
elf-pavlik: actually most fields in that example you gave me have mf2 counter parts. Person = h-card Location = h-adr, id = uuid, name = p-name image = u-photo
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aaronpk
that html page could easily be turned into structutred data with a few choice mf2 classes! and if there isn't an existing rel value or property name then those would make great suggestions
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KartikPrabhu
elf-pavlik: what is RDF helping you with, that some HTML+mf2 couldn't?
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elf-pavlik
well, how do i express that i took trip on particular bus?
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elf-pavlik
in RDF i could reuse http://vocab.org/transit/terms/.html
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aaronpk
so the real question is what do consumers of this data need to do with the data? because you can always just write a sentence and people can read it
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KartikPrabhu
elf-pavlik: express for whom? people? then just write it as aaronpk said
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elf-pavlik
analyze my usage of public transport to run it agains my records of contributions to such subsystem
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aaronpk
that's why there haven't been many new vocabularies developed for indieweb conversations to happen, because it all happens at the people layer.
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aaronpk
elf-pavlik: that's a great use case
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KartikPrabhu
elf-pavlik: if you want to use it only for youself then just make your own mf2 classes with h-x-* , with x denoting experimental
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elf-pavlik
KartikPrabhu, but why wouldn't I use RDF ?
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aaronpk
I have similar structured data on http://aaronparecki.com/metrics which I eventually want to aggregate or count somehow but haven't done so yet
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elf-pavlik
as you see people already do transit vocabs in RDF
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KartikPrabhu
I wouldn't because it is complicated to author compared to mf2 wirting
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KartikPrabhu
elf-pavlik: if you really want to write RDF I won't stop you
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aaronpk
the nice thing about mf2 is that it falls back to plaintext nicely. for example http://aaronparecki.com/metrics/2014/09/17/102924/
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aaronpk
if anyone were to reply to that and show the reply context, they'd render it as a note from me that says "Biked 2.2 miles in 11 minutes"
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aaronpk
but if they wanted to, could actually parse the individual data on the page, like avg pace, total distance, heart rate, etc
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elf-pavlik
aaronpk, i quess you know QS xtof :)
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tommorris
I publish RDFa on tommorris.org. Take a look elf-pavlik. ;)
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tommorris
I publish microformats2 too.
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: that is a neat example! maybe you can give a image fallback of the map itself as a e-content or something?
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elf-pavlik
tommorris, plus Mozilla Persona - awesome!
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aaronpk
there should be a u-image for the map
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aaronpk
u-photo sorry
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KartikPrabhu
oh yeah saw it now
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aaronpk
shows up in barnaby's reader and everything!
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elf-pavlik
tommorris, cool, i put source of your pages to http://rdfa.info/play/
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aaronpk
and he didn't even need to know about my "bike" vocab
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tommorris
Bike vocabulary?
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aaronpk
look at the other properties on the h-entry
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elf-pavlik
"distance": [ "2.2 mi"] so i still need to parse text to get data :(
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tommorris
Units of measure are hard.
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elf-pavlik
what data type you use for duration?
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aaronpk
yeah there's well-defined units for time
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aaronpk
other measurements are hard because you have to include the units
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aaronpk
ISO8601 for time
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aaronpk
pdf;dr
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elf-pavlik
pdf sucks!
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aaronpk
don't give me a spec for web standards as a pdf lol
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elf-pavlik
aaronpk, well i asked them once to turn pdf into html and they did http://schema.org/docs/actions.html
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tommorris
Wow, a PDF on w3...
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tommorris
Can we get W3C to ratify a standard described by a Flash SWF file? ;)
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KartikPrabhu
why are units hard? <span class="h-measurement"><span class="p-type">length</span>: <data value="3" class="p-value">3</data><data value="m" class="p-unit">metres
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KartikPrabhu
seems easier than parsing the ISOstuff which was a nightmare while adding to mf2py
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elf-pavlik
KartikPrabhu, i would use URI for meters
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aaronpk
meters have a URI? wat?
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KartikPrabhu
metres is a SI standard unit of length.... no need to use a URI for that
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KartikPrabhu
a yard or foot maybe
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KartikPrabhu
or a furlong or something
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elf-pavlik
what if someone abbreviates them to just 'm'
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KartikPrabhu
elf-pavlik: i did in my example already ;)
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KartikPrabhu
see data-value :P
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aaronpk
KartikPrabhu: i think you got them backwards, <data value="meter" class="p-unit">m</data>
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KartikPrabhu
if i say a legnth of 3m you don't think 3 minutes
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aaronpk
the value of the unit should be the full name
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: either way :P
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: US or UK english?
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KartikPrabhu
that is why I used m
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aaronpk
SI doesn't actually require one or the other, says to use the local version
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KartikPrabhu
SI does give you the short name as 'm' unambiguously though i think
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elf-pavlik
needs english++ ;)
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elf-pavlik
just to clarify i don't need technologies to share pictures of cats (please take no offence) but to do some serious social collaboration http://www.w3.org/community/webcurrencies/
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elf-pavlik
plus reputation/trust etc. http://polyeconomy.info/
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KartikPrabhu
elf-pavlik: we have been doing quite some serious collaboration using mf2 :)
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elf-pavlik
KartikPrabhu, great to hear it! :)
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KartikPrabhu
like federated cross-site/cross-platform commenting
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KartikPrabhu
and also "annotations" :P
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elf-pavlik
KartikPrabhu, awesome! but i still don't see it as *very complex* data
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KartikPrabhu
<shrug> no one else does it :P
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Mark87
watch the video elf-pavlik posted the tweet about earlier. its good so far.
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elf-pavlik
i see this one quite complex https://web-payments.org/specs/
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elf-pavlik
Mark87, REST ?
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@mamund
RT @layer7: Video: REST, Hypermedia, and the Semantic Gap: Why "RMM Level-3 REST" is not enough - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkAt9XSOfaE
(twitter.com/_/status/479319909621440514)
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KartikPrabhu
elf-pavlik: you meana complex problem, not complex data set
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Mark87
I should have just linked the video heh
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tommorris
Blimey. I am gonna start a W3C meme. ;)
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aaronpk
I don't see "*very complex* data" as a good thing :)
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: agreed
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elf-pavlik
KartikPrabhu, both http://goodrelations-vocabulary.org
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aaronpk
if your data is that complex maybe you should work on simplifying the data model first ;)
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tommorris
I should start a website: Tom drunkenly reviews W3C specs.
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elf-pavlik
tommorris, LOL ;-)
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elf-pavlik
+ screencast
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KartikPrabhu
elf-pavlik: getting rich-snippets is not a complex problem
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elf-pavlik
Mark87, also check out later https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB94dIamAQc
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KartikPrabhu
or at least it is easy enough to do with mf2
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Mark87
elf-pavlik bookmarked
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KartikPrabhu
laptop dying brb
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elf-pavlik
KartikPrabhu, let's say we continue conversation once i have more bit more complex data published using RDF ?
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elf-pavlik
and really impressed by aaronpk metrics! :)
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elf-pavlik
BTW
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aaronpk
thanks!
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aaronpk
there's all sorts of fun stuff there now
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elf-pavlik
i plan to publish very detalied personal consupmtion/contribution logs
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elf-pavlik
hi kirilind :)
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gRegor`
tommorris: My Drunk W3C, a la My Drunk Kitchen
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tommorris
The only problem with drunkenly reviewing w3c specs is how I get my laptop past security in da club.
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elf-pavlik
tommorris, i had no problems with it in places like http://muc.ccc.de/
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elf-pavlik
afk, rolling...
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binbasti
elf-pavlik: thanks for that link. https://iotdb.org looks great
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elf-pavlik
binbasti, come over to http://get-d.net/ you can meet some folks working on http://www.riot-os.org/
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binbasti
i'm sitting on a plane to sf right now :)
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elf-pavlik
BTW next week i should have time to get some progress on https://github.com/elf-pavlik/remotestorage-jsonld-contexts
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elf-pavlik
binbasti, jump jump!
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binbasti
elf-pavlik: great! looking forward to that
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elf-pavlik
and map it to http://www.w3.org/TR/vcard-rdf/
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binbasti
yer, that was the plan anyway
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binbasti
landing. cu
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elf-pavlik
binbasti, i could also take a look at http://microformats.org/wiki/h-card#Parser_Compatibility
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KartikPrabhu
elf-pavlik: I suggest that publishing data is not useful. It is one-sided. If anyone else is parsing and doing something with the data you publish that'll be agreat discussion
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elf-pavlik
KartikPrabhu, good point!
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aaronpk
so this is interesting, in the past 17 hours I have received 2 legit webmentions, 1 junk test webmention from myself, and 290 spam pingbacks to endpoints from older than 5 minutes
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KartikPrabhu
that is the thing that converted me to mf2 frankly, that both publishing and comsumption is easy
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rascul
yeah mf2 is good
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KartikPrabhu
and as a personal anecdote about how easy it is to comsume mf2. I could contribute to mf2py in less than half a year of learning python
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KartikPrabhu
i don't think I can do that with RDF
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aaronpk
oh interesting, a lot of the invalid webmention/pingback requests are GET requests
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tommorris
KartikPrabhu: I am sure Python rdflib has issues that need work. ;)
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rascul
KartikPrabhu i was processing mf2 with beautifulsoup4 before i discovered (or maybe someone told me about? mf2py
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KartikPrabhu
rascul: exactly!
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aaronpk
i'm gonna make it not log get requests
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ShaneHudson
aaronpk: I need to sort that out too, last week I had an issue where indiewebify.me spammed me. Need to do a duplicate check or something
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Loqi
ShaneHudson: tantek left you a message 2 days, 2 hours ago: you should stub http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=User:Shanehudson.net&action=edit&redlink=1 with an h-card (name, url), and add a list of what you're "Working On" as well as any "Itches"!
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KartikPrabhu
tommorris: I have no motivation since I don't intend to consume RDF... selfdogfooding and all that
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: just show a HTML page on GET requests to your endpoint like: https://kartikprabhu.com/webmention which could be more useful from a UX pov
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aaronpk
I already do
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aaronpk
but it was also logging it
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KartikPrabhu
oh I see :)
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elf-pavlik
yay, may get access to VM and deploy my stuff again :) thanks to https://twitter.com/as250
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Mark87
wouldn't the most useful thing be to actually have a webmention form at the endpoint?
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KartikPrabhu
Mark87: yes! that is what I was thinking of.
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aaronpk
and several others do as well
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KartikPrabhu
and like always aaronpk has beaten me to it
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bret
elf-pavlik where did you get the sweet avatar painting/drawing?
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Mark87
@aaronpk KartikPrabhu haha I saw kartik's page and immediately thought of that
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KartikPrabhu
Mark87: I have a webmention form at the end of articles but will have to modify it to have a source field
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bret
Heh nice! Is there an english transaltion? or just google translate
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Mark87
KartikPrabhu I need to find a way to implement webmentions somehow I think
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Mark87
KartikPrabhu very cool btw
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KartikPrabhu
Mark87: what do you run on your site?
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elf-pavlik
does webmention have nice sequence flow diagram? i played a bit with nice editor to render them from text https://stackedit-beta.herokuapp.com/viewer#!provider=gist&gistId=0977176e6f4e8e84d575&filename=webdpack-basic-sequence.md
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bret
Mark87 lots of ways to do that, but still a bit of work from scratch
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KartikPrabhu
as in backend?
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KartikPrabhu
elf-pavlik: to display comments?
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Mark87
KartikPrabhu bret I don't have a blog because I'm not much of a writer, but I have a feed reader I wrote from scratch and It would be cool to use webmentions to reply to articles I like from twitter or a new blog if I get one
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elf-pavlik
KartikPrabhu, first to learn how the plumbing works
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bret
Mark87 do you take photos or tweet?
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Mark87
bret nope. I really don't write anything haha. I just read
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Mark87
bret im a lurker
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KartikPrabhu
everim my experience every question has a wiki page :)
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KartikPrabhu
s/everim/in
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu meant to say: in my experience every question has a wiki page :)
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Mark87
bret i'm an infrequent commenter I guess, but sometimes I like to interact
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bret
Mark87 well commenting with your own site is still writing, and definately a rad development. maybe see if you can play with Shrewdness?
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KartikPrabhu
Mark87: maybe begin by posting reply notes on your site
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gRegor`
What is Shrewdness?
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bret
barnaby is writing a feed reader that lets you comment, but it needs a micropub endpoint
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Loqi
Shrewdness is a micropub-enabled reader web app, currently being developed by Barnaby Walters http://indiewebcamp.com/Shrewdness
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Mark87
bret ill check that out
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gRegor`
From what barnaby said the other day, it's invite-only right now.
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bret
im not sure if there are any getup and go micropub endpoints
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gRegor`
His superfeedr bill is racking up, so not opening it up more at the moment
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ShaneHudson
What's the correct way to do a page redirect on the wiki
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elf-pavlik
KartikPrabhu, good point again! once i read it all i'll make sequence diagram for future generations ;)
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bret
ShaneHudson i forget syntax but google mediawiki redirect
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KartikPrabhu
elf-pavlik: pictures are always useful
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aaronpk
ShaneHudson: #REDIRECT[[page name]] (or just look at an existing redirect and copy)
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gRegor`
ShaneHudson: #redirect [[wikipage]]
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ShaneHudson
Thanks :)
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gRegor`
aaronpk beating us to things, as usual
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gRegor`
;)
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bret
elf-pavlik what do you like to use to make sequence diagrams?
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shanehudson.net
created /User:Shanehudson.net (+33) "Adding a redirect for my name"
(view diff)
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Mark87
KartikPrabhu that's a very cool idea
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KartikPrabhu
ooo making SVG sequence diagrams with embeded mf2 would be sweet!
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gRegor`
elf-pavlik: When your main site is back online, you should sign in to the wiki and add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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Mark87
I think the first thing I need to do is implement login with indieauth
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elf-pavlik
gRegor`, i'll mark it as TODO
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j12t_
The "semantic web" has been superseded. Don't worry about it :-)
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j12t_
Wrong channel, sorry.
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KartikPrabhu
j12t_++ for wrong channel but right comment
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Loqi
j12t has 4 karma
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Mark87
j12t_ KartikPrabhu superceded?
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gRegor`
semantic web 2.0?
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j12t_
You wish
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KartikPrabhu
Mark87: in the sense that no one actually does the semantic web thing anymore do they?
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elf-pavlik
calls tommorris for help :'(
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Mark87
KartikPrabhu ahh, well I would say no one ever really started using the semantic web
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KartikPrabhu
Mark87: even worse then :)
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Mark87
what is indiewebcamp if not a semantic web movement?