#indiewebcamp 2014-09-18

2014-09-18 UTC
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tantek KevinMarks: feel free to use http://indiewebcamp.com/images/b/b8/im-building-indiewebcamp.png for the event "photo"
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I add a type=deleted in my database
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KartikPrabhu usually type=reply and so on
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tantek so you still keep the full parsed data of the webmention, the URL etc.?
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KartikPrabhu yup
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bret I have a deleted state for my posts
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gRegor` When I implement delete, it will be similar. A checkbox and store the deleted date in the database.
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bret although the permalink contains some context
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gRegor` That's how they're marked as deleted currently, when someone sends a 410 wm
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KartikPrabhu hmm I should check for a 410
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tantek I'm thinking of the use-cases of (1) particularly nasty or ugly comments you don't want to ever read even part of ever again - e.g. when debugging your data(base), (2) URLs you never want even the possibility of visiting ever again (e.g. when you export/import of your data, or debugging it and wondering what that URL was) because the contents were so noxious.
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KartikPrabhu tantek: haven't encountered that yet
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tantek.com edited /DDOS (+177) "add subheads, for each how to method, cluster code/downside of IP checking with that suggestion" (view diff)
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gRegor` Sure, a hard delete makes sense and is a feature a lot of people would want, I'm sure. Particularly those that get attacked online viciously.
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I have encountered tweets like that (bad/ugly text) - not necessarily intended for me but referencing @t. And I have definitely encountered pingback spam from supernasty domains.
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tantek so these are both real world use-cases that have already happeneed to me personally in the past
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tantek I don't want this data to show up in a flat export / data dump of my blog
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KartikPrabhu tantek: if you are very inclined to delete then you could and maybe add the sender to a "blocked" list on webmention endpoint
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tantek because then it gets "associated" with all the rest of the data in the blog
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gRegor` will consider renaming my method "archive" and offer "delete" separately
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tantek yes, /block is the next natural step
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I don't show the "deleted" comments in my HTML at all
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tantek but they're in your data storage still right? so if/when you export your "data", that content is there.
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KartikPrabhu yes true
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KartikPrabhu hey it s your data. If you are so replused by certain parts you can delete it. I might consider doing that if I do get really nasty/offensive comments or spam
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tantek right. so I have in the past and thus as part of expanding my storage system to store webmentions, I am thinking about how can I store that I received a webmention, without storing the URL or data.
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tantek for such deleted webmentions
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tantek because obviously if I get another webmention for the same URL I want to ignore it.
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KartikPrabhu aah I see
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tantek I'm thinking one-way hash
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tantek of the source URL
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KartikPrabhu that could work
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tantek that way I can check to see if I got it already or not
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tantek without knowing what the URL is, and thus not being able to navigate to it
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tantek and have my system automatically ignore webmentions from it in the future
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KartikPrabhu tantek could do the same for spam
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tantek but before I designed/built anything from my hypothetical understanding I wanted to ping here to see if anyone else had (a) thought about this problem, (b) implemented it
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tantek KartikPrabhu: bingo, same for spam.
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tantek that was how I got to this line of thinking
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KartikPrabhu in fact I would just treat the nasty comments as spam
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tantek exactly
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tantek or the spam as nasty comments
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tantek additionally I might flag a deletion with *why* I deleted it (spam, abusive / personal attack, etc.)
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tantek thus I'd consider keeping track of the hashed domain as well as the hashed source permalinks
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tantek so I could keep track of - have I deleted anything from this site before?
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gRegor` I store an md5 of the source + target URL
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KartikPrabhu like a /block list
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tantek right
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gRegor` Currently use the hash to determine if a webmention is new or an update.
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tantek also a shareable block list without openly sharing what domains you're blocking (which some people might take offense to)
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tantek gRegor`: cool
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tantek I figure it could be used for CRUD routing as well
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gRegor` Also have a blacklist, but it's just domain-level
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tantek s/figure/figured
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Loqi tantek meant to say: I figured it could be used for CRUD routing as well
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tantek.com edited /DDOS (+287) "resources related to the WordPress pingback vulnerability" (view diff)
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gRegor` Shareable block lists are an interesting idea
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KartikPrabhu like waht Adblock has
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gRegor` I've seen some chatter about that on Twitter. I think there's even some third party services people have made for it
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kylewm http://madebycori.com/flaminga/
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gRegor` http://www.theblockbot.com is the one I've seen referenced; no experience with it.
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tantek.com edited /pingback (+153) "/* Problems */ DDOS" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /pingback (-1) "/* DDOS = */ -=" (view diff)
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tantek gRegor`, KartikPrabhu - here is my previous work on block lists: http://microformats.org/wiki/blocklist
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kylewm interesting that flaminga mutes and blockbot blocks
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tantek (goodness, from like 5+ years ago)
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gRegor` blockbot is more about abuse from random people on Twitter you don't follow
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tantek back when I was trying to solve this problem from the perspective of social network portability, optimistic that the silos actually could be convinced to adopt and interoperate: http://microformats.org/wiki/social_network_portability
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I like the block list h-card list idea
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tantek (context: last half of 2009 is when I finally gave up on Twitter and started writing Falcon, deploying live and switching over on 2010-01-01)
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tantek so that blocklist stuff was probably the last thing I documented as part of social network portability before I gave up on that and decided I need to start by owning my own data first.
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tantek notes, tweets, posts etc.
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tantek this is sad: both of the "Groups" for discussing/collecting info about social network portability are on now dead silos: http://microformats.org/wiki/social_network_portability#Groups
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tantek Magnolia and Upcoming
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: I doubt any of them will RSVP on the wiki, so you'll probably want to invite them on Twitter for next HWC, to determine if anyone else is actually coming. :) http://gregorlove.com/notes/2014/09/05/1/
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /DDOS (+8) "Copy edits, moved most commonly implemented fix to the top of the list" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu gRegor`: sure will get to that soon
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gRegor` I was about to tweet to them, but realized it'd be less confusing if it was you. "I won't be there but let Kartik know..."
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KartikPrabhu yeah I can do that
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bret What do people think about micropub clients that send out of scope fields?
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kevinmarks.com edited /events/2014-09-24-homebrew-website-club (+62) "/* URLs */" (view diff)
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kylewm bret: can you clarify what you mean by out of scope?
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bret kylewm like if I want to POST a micropub post, but also include a field like youtube: [video id]
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bret just random vars that I can handle
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bret i do media embeds using a template for some sites, so i can track API changes easily
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kylewm it seems a little contrary to the spirit to send something that you wouldn't have as a p-* property in the final document
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bret like, I can update (almost) all of my youtube embeds with a single template edit
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kylewm but at the same time, go for it? :)
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bret yeah i'm not sure what to do. maybe just advanced parsing of content is the way to go
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kylewm just as an example, if you were sending an h-card, you might send url=https://twitter.com/bret rather than twitter=bret
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bret right
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bret specialized parsers for some domains
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bret hrmmm
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bret bbl going home
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ShaneHudson The index.php thing seems to be caused by mod rewrite not reaching the second rewrite if it was originally going to http:// not https://, anyone had that problem before?
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KartikPrabhu ShaneHudson: this is apache stuff?
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ShaneHudson Yeah. It hits the first redirect (to https) but doesn't reach the second (removing index.php)
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ShaneHudson Of course a simple work around is to only ever use https links, but that is unlikely to happen (and not backwards friendly)
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ShaneHudson But it is 3am so going to have to sort it in the morning. Goodnight!
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Loqi ciao
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KartikPrabhu !tell ShaneHudson I had the same issue with http->https and www->no-www redirects. Only one of them could be done
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ShaneHudson Only one? What was your solution
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Loqi ShaneHudson: KartikPrabhu left you a message 33 seconds ago: I had the same issue with http->https and www->no-www redirects. Only one of them could be done
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KartikPrabhu ShaneHudson: to not do the www->no-www :(
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KartikPrabhu never found a way to do both even with extensive internet searching
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ShaneHudson Interesting. I had problems beforehand leaving that in, so will need to find a way to do both. It has to be possible!
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KartikPrabhu let me know if you do figure it out :)
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ShaneHudson But for now, I really am going haha Thanks :)
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ShaneHudson Yeah will do
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parzzix I made a static page and a known hosted site... i have rel-me links to the static age...do I do the same on known?
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@acegiak Aaron Parecki: #indiewebcamp 2014-09-16 - http://acegiak.net/2014/09/18/aaron-parecki-indiewebcamp-2014-09-16/ (twitter.com/_/status/512435034997788673)
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KevinMarks_ If you choose the solo theme on known it shows the rel me links on the homepage
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parzzix ok
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parzzix thanks
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@heavyd5 RT @elliottucker: Setting up Known with Nginx #indieweb https://elliottucker.net/2014/setting-up-known-with-nginx-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/512438466353721344)
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@heavyd5 @leolaporte RT @elliottucker: Setting up Known with Nginx #indieweb https://elliottucker.net/2014/setting-up-known-with-nginx-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/512438560033492992)
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@TheDavidJohnson RT @erinjo: Nice article in Wired from @klintron on @withknown, open source, and #indieweb. http://www.wired.com/2014/09/known/ (twitter.com/_/status/512441571728691200)
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@parzzix playing around with rel-me links #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/512443245834432512)
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GWG Long articles...no one says a thing
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GWG Account of my dilemma about buying new pants..10 comments and 4 likes
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GWG This seems off
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KevinMarks_ Talk to crystal about pants 👖
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KevinMarks_ Opinions are like pants, everyone has some?
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GWG KevinMarks, just...when I write about the Indieweb...I'd like some opinions
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GWG Or something else long than...I didn't steal pants today
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KevinMarks_ Now that's a new kind of event RSVP POSSE Check out @emckean's Tweet: https://twitter.com/emckean/status/512455112329928704
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@emckean Ok, we’re doing this, SF #xoxofest meetup Oct 5. (There will be food trucks.) https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1vL-HRo4_SSgP0YR-cUZ3mcq_c-6OdAFogBi9eCIPGzU/viewform (thanks @rsingel for enthusiasm) (twitter.com/_/status/512455112329928704)
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@kevinmarks Not got iTunes? Joe Strummer’s London Calling episodes on the #indieweb http://feed.unmung.com/feed?feed=http%3A%2F%2Fpodcasts.streamtheworld.com%2Fpodcast%2Faudio-245-AmD33Rp-1001911.rss via @openculture @Hanifkureishi (twitter.com/_/status/512485107030962176)
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@fdevillamil RT @kevinmarks: Not got iTunes? Joe Strummer’s London Calling episodes on the #indieweb http://feed.unmung.com/feed?feed=http%3A%2F%2Fpodcasts.streamtheworld.com%2Fpodcast%2Faudio-245-AmD33Rp-1001911.rss via @openculture @Hanifkurei… (twitter.com/_/status/512485196567150592)
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@maymaymx Neat. Tumblr Crosspostr got props on @IndieWebCamp's Wiki for being a #POSSE solution from @WordPress to @Tumblr: https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=WordPress&oldid=13232#POSSE :) (twitter.com/_/status/512539969756606464)
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@maymaym RT @maymaymx: Neat. Tumblr Crosspostr got props on @IndieWebCamp's Wiki for being a #POSSE solution from @WordPress to @Tumblr: https://t.c… (twitter.com/_/status/512541295211204608)
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KartikPrabhu why the hell is this URL beign exposed: https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=WordPress&oldid=13232#POSSE ?
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maymay.net edited /Tumblr (+143) "/* Example Tumblrs with microformats */ days.maybemaimed.com uses a free IndieWeb-ified Tumblr theme" (view diff)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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hmans https://github.com/hmans/pants/issues/17 :/
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rawlinson.us edited /IRC_People (+93) "/* Nicknames */ added finalcut to the list" (view diff)
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finalcut that's a pretty cool integration
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@deanna naturally, my first Known post had to be the #indieweb breakfast meetup at #xoxofest <3 https://twitter.com/deanna/status/512574299937325056/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/512574299937325056)
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@parzzix #indieweb people, who do you guys use for hpsting your sites these days? #webhosting (twitter.com/_/status/512575477182001153)
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@lordminx Blogpost: "Gedanken: #indieweb, #biberlincamp, stuff" http://story-games.at/gedanken-indieweb-biberlincamp-stuff.html (twitter.com/_/status/512577622505947136)
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neuro` Good afternoon indie web world
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petermolnar good afternoon
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alanpearce Greetings.
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@ReninaWrites 13/ Oh my gawd Paandie. @afrolicious http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge #BlkandDgtl. (twitter.com/_/status/512589272697032704)
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ben_thatmustbeme good morning all
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neuro` Hello ben_thatmustbeyou
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alanpearce Good after-morning :)
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GWG Good morning
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ben_thatmustbeme whats everyone up to today?
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GWG Well, some guy named Ben told me I had a div problem, so I've been working on it
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alanpearce Recovering from illness :( Although I might try working on my clojure mf2 parser later :)
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ben_thatmustbeme that jerk, want me to beat him up for you GWG?
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ben_thatmustbeme i was sick this weekend, i'm finally feeling pretty good
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ben_thatmustbeme close to 100%
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: No. I just hate looking for tags in multi-file code, but it has to be fixed.
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GWG So, first I had to disable all plugins on my test site, and check the theming code.
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GWG Then I have to enable each plugin to see if it is leaving an open div.
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ben_thatmustbeme i try to be really good about designing so that tag levels match per file. with the only exception being the main header and footer templates
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ben_thatmustbeme but those two match in tandem
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ben_thatmustbeme ohh
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alanpearce That's why I prefer inheriting templating systems rather than include-based ones :)
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, if a plugin is whats adding it... ouch
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ben_thatmustbeme include based ones are fine if they are done right
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: I wrote the plugins in question. One override the standard commenting template with a custom one.
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alanpearce Yeah, most things are fine iff done right, but that's the problem IMO :)
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ben_thatmustbeme well pretty much any system can be done wrong too, I can see inheritance being over abused and just leading to difficulty finding anything
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alanpearce Yup, I get that at work.
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alanpearce But it's pretty trivial to ensure tags are balanced with a helpful editor
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: I'm going for modularity. The net effect though of that is trying to find which file you need to look it.
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GWG And I wrote one thing with a set of options, so I need to check to see if any of the options are coded incorrectly.
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GWG I've been wading through it, because I want it to work correctly.
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GWG Correction...it was working. I want it to parse correctly.
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alanpearce Have you considered using a test framework to help you out?
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ben_thatmustbeme bah, parsing correctly is overrated
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ben_thatmustbeme :P
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GWG alanpearce: No. But I am open to ideas. I am not a developer by trade
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ben_thatmustbeme GWG what are you be trade?
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ben_thatmustbeme or let me phrase that in the silly Loqi get confused method
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Loqi grins profusely
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ben_thatmustbeme what are you by trade
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "you by trade" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=you+by+trade
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: I was trained in information Science. But I work in a corporate training and service capacity
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ben_thatmustbeme ahh, that doesn't sound fun
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jonnybarnes I thought it'd be nice and easy upgrading my dad's iPad mini to iOS 8, but no, it wont update for some reason
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jonnybarnes 2nd attempt at downloading iOS, hopefully itll then actually install it this time
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: My grandmother told me work is what you do so you can have fun other times
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alanpearce GWGsgrandmother++
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Loqi GWGsgrandmother has 1 karma
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GWG Either way, even though the tools I am developing are for me, I want to make them usable by others.
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ben_thatmustbeme johnnybarnes my wife is still on ios 6, she really doesn't like the new look of 7, forget 8
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ben_thatmustbeme indeed GWG, I have stuck within a framework that I know there is an installer for, i'll just have to port that over at some point and stabilize
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ben_thatmustbeme right now, my code is probably not the simplest thing to install though
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GWG I write code in vi.
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alanpearce vi? Why not vim?
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GWG Same difference.
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petermolnar I guess for the same reason we are on IRC ;)
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alanpearce cringes
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jonnybarnes ben_thatmustbeme: but surely most of her apps are now out of date?
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ben_thatmustbeme vi is an alias for vim on most systems now
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alanpearce Interesting. I haven't found that to be the case
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GWG Typing two letters is easier
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ben_thatmustbeme jonnybarnes, many of them aren't. most suppose back to ios6 fine. she also doesn't update often. her main thing is she can't get new apps that make use of the newer APIs
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ben_thatmustbeme ben@Bens-Workstation ~ $ ls -alh `which vi`
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ben_thatmustbeme lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 Dec 18 2012 /usr/bin/vi -> /etc/alternatives/vi
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ben_thatmustbeme ben@Bens-Workstation ~ $ ls -alh /etc/alternatives/vi
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ben_thatmustbeme lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 18 Dec 3 2013 /etc/alternatives/vi -> /usr/bin/vim.basic
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ben_thatmustbeme i think all of the linux systems I work on, its similar
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GWG Next time I will just say that I use a text editor
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alanpearce :)
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ben_thatmustbeme hehehe
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ben_thatmustbeme i use vim too
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alanpearce I think it's the most efficient text editing model, but I prefer Emacs for other reasons
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@afrolicious @ReninaWrites http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (twitter.com/_/status/512615719453081600)
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@isaiah looks interesting: https://gigaom.com/2014/09/11/indieweb-advocates-launch-known-so-bloggers-can-be-social-and-still-control-their-content/ /cc @manton (twitter.com/_/status/512617346997829633)
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@finalcut I'm now automagically putting my #instagram photos on my new blog using http://ownyourgram.com/ and microformats. #Indieweb ftw! (twitter.com/_/status/512619315708067840)
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finalcut well, that was interesting. will that happen whenever I tweet or just when I do certain things or use certain keywords?
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alanpearce It's a keyword/hashtag thing I think
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@CocoaGeek RT @isaiah: looks interesting: https://gigaom.com/2014/09/11/indieweb-advocates-launch-known-so-bloggers-can-be-social-and-still-control-their-content/ /cc @manton (twitter.com/_/status/512620567933886465)
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finalcut okay, good, I don't want to be that loud boorish guy that just shows up and spams the crap out of you all before getting booted
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alanpearce I think you'd have to do a lot more before that happens :D
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finalcut I hear ya; I was just worried about future tweets all flooding this way.. some days i'm kind of verbal
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@Freerunnering RT @isaiah: looks interesting: https://gigaom.com/2014/09/11/indieweb-advocates-launch-known-so-bloggers-can-be-social-and-still-control-their-content/ /cc @manton (twitter.com/_/status/512625870868324352)
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jonnybarnes anyone heard of codingforlawyers.com?
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jonnybarnes its actually quite a good introduction to basic programming ideas
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alanpearce Not sure what to think about it given that it starts with regex :D
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jonnybarnes alanpearce: yeah, that is quite a weird start, but it is targeted at lawyers
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jonnybarnes does anyone know where barnabrwalters map-view post aggregator is?
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jonnybarnes I can;t find a link on http://tantek.com/2014/259/b1/indiewebcampuk-hack-day-https-webactions
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aaronpk http://shrewdness.waterpigs.co.uk/locations/
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aaronpk browser bar autocomplete ftw
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aaronpk oh but it broke because insecure assets
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jonnybarnes Im getting an error about L being undefined, which I guess is the global variable for leaflet
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jonnybarnes but leaflet should be loaded
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aaronpk look at your JS console. it's not loading most of the libraries because they're all http URLs
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jonnybarnes I just get "Location application started successfully" in Firefox Nightly
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kylewm and I just get Error: Script error for: leaflet
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kylewm http://requirejs.org/docs/errors.html#scripterror
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aaronpk right because it's not loading the leaflet library
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aaronpk he just needs to switch it to load the libraries over https
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jonnybarnes oh hang on, yeah, the response for the leafler library 0 KB
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alanpearce protocol-relative URLs :)
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jonnybarnes and here we go, try going to https://cdn.leafletjs.com/leaflet-0.7.3/leaflet.js in your browser
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kylewm yeah, getting an invalid cert for that
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jonnybarnes thus leaflet.js isnt getting loaded
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kylewm I use https://cdnjs.cloudflare.com/ajax/libs/leaflet/0.7.3/leaflet.js
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kylewm in case barnaby reads this :)
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jonnybarnes havving added a temporary exception, I'm not sure on barnaby's geo-data
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jonnybarnes has caseorganic been in costa rica recently?
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jonnybarnes she has
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@benwerd @mhutchings Not this time - but we'll be there in a few weeks for IndieWebCamp! (twitter.com/_/status/512638778393890816)
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jonnybarnes !tell barnabywalters now that you use https on shrewdness you should use https://cdnjs.cloudflare.com/ajax/libs/leaflet/0.7.3/leaflet.js for leaflet as per kylewm's suggestion
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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gRegor` Known HTML comment: <!-- To silo is human, to syndicate divine -->
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@gRegorLove @itsscottwilder The really cool thing is ability to post the content on your own site and syndicate out. Even federated comments. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/512648609045561344)
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snarfed !tell willnorris hi! quick question: bridgy is hitting the G+ API daily courtesy quota, and i'd like to request a bump, but i'm a bit scared to bring any attention to it. do you have any feeling for whether the G+ team would be ok with bridgy, or whether they'd ban hammer it? (i'll ask other friends there too, but you have the most direct experience. :P details: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/22 )
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@gRegorLove @itsscottwilder If you have @withknown set up, try posting a status in reply to http://gregorlove.com/2014/02/1180/ and it will show up there. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/512650030184804352)
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: That WordPress link is the "permanent link" in the footer. https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=WordPress&oldid=13232https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=WordPress&oldid=13232#POSSE it's a link to the current revision.
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gRegor` Pasting error
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gRegor` But you get it.
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kylewm does anybody's posting interface let you drag/drop images into the composition area, like github issues?
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kylewm that is killer
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snarfed kylewm: agreed. only from disk, right? if gh supported it from within the browser, that would be truly killer
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gRegor` Withknown sells the "syndicate to social networks" well, but not sure it sells the webmention aspect well. I just told my friend how he could post in reply to me and it would show up as a comment. He was like "really?"
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snarfed kylewm: wow, wp supports drag and drop images from both disk and the browser
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snarfed (just discovered that)
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snarfed gRegornobacktick++
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Loqi gRegornobacktick has 16 karma
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finalcut drag and drop from the browser is pretty slick - I hadn't seen that before
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gRegor` I've used http://www.dropzonejs.com/ on a client project. Worked pretty smoothly.
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kylewm ooooooook, new itch! :)
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snarfed heh
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kylewm aaronpk: jonnybarnes: do you know whether https://shrewdness.waterpigs.co.uk/locations/ shows locations of everybody that shrewdness knows about or only people i follow?
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aaronpk I think it shows everything in the system
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jonnybarnes i dont have a shrewdness account and it showed me posts
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kylewm need to get more people posting geo data!!
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aaronpk ownyourgram sends it! so if you're using ownyourgram for photos you can do it pretty easily!
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finalcut I can't express how much I dig this whole indie auth thing.. I feel like I've really been missing out.
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kylewm finalcut: cool, you are self-hosting Known?
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@jmenglund03 @parzzix I use @ReclaimHosting. Great support, extremely knowledgeable. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/512655160602923009)
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petermolnar I'm semi-self-hosting it, meaning I've set it up for my wife, but she's not using it yet :(
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@gRegorLove @itsscottwilder Yep. It uses a rather simple method called webmention. More info in that blog post. (twitter.com/_/status/512655738569641984)
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finalcut yeah, I'm using Known; just working out some kinks in it and my understanding of many of these concepts
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kylewm finalcut: is bridgy still not working for you? saw a post from a couple days about it
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finalcut I think it is mostly working now
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finalcut though I don't know when it will tie in a comment and when it won't
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snarfed glad to hear it's mostly working. looks like it sent at least one webmention successfully: http://rawlinson.us/2014/putting-my-flag-in-the-virtual-moon-that-is-this
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finalcut the change in my workflow (for instance with twitter replies) is an awkward hurdle for me
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snarfed (https://www.brid.gy/twitter/finalcut#responses )
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finalcut that webmention didn't work today until I patched known - but then no kind of annotation worked on my instance before that
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snarfed finalcut: agreed. indieweb tools still usually aren't as easy to use, esp across devices, as the silos
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kylewm finalcut: whoa, was this the bug that you patched? https://github.com/finalcut/idno/commit/94e92be89c7830fc89e17a5f17cc9a99b83a4fdb?diff=split
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kylewm that looks very subtle
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finalcut maybe you can answer this question for me if you don't mind - I have just tried to have known post to facebook for me - the post makes it through but it isn't visible to everyone in "Your Friends" instead it has a statement saying: "shared only with developers and testers while this application is being built"
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finalcut well there were a couple other files edited; that particular commit fixes a bug I created fixing the actual problem
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finalcut basically in mongo2.6 and above you can't have dots in your field names and annotations are using the URI of the annotation as their key field within the entity being annotated
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kylewm finalcut: if you go to your app in developers.facebook.com, under Status & Review, there is a switch for "Do you want to make this app and all its live features available to the general public?"
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@RonKJeffries Playing w/ @withknown #IndieWeb service. Post on my own site, publish to e.g. Twitter and/or Facebook. See: http://ronkjeffries.withknown.com (twitter.com/_/status/512658152014094338)
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finalcut Im not certain my approach is the greatest but it seemed to be the least disruptive way to get it working without breaking how it worked with older mongodb installs
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kylewm you may have to fill in some fields like the "App Domains" under Settings, but you should not have to submit to Facebook for review
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finalcut kylewm : thanks for the status&review tip; I've flipped that switch
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finalcut I don't remember seeing that tip when adding and setting up the plugin - it might be a useful bit of text to add to the plugin setup instructions if it isn't there (i might have overlooked it)
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finalcut btw: this is the full fix I submitted for the annotations problem I was having: https://github.com/idno/idno/pull/466
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alanpearce finalcut: you should be sympathetic to the project's coding style (i.e. tabs/spaces)
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ShaneHudson Should composer files be commited to git?
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alanpearce composer.json and lock, yes,
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finalcut you are correct; but I honestly had no idea what it was/is. I was using vi and kind of guessing as I went; i'm not very good with vi.
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alanpearce vendor, no
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ShaneHudson alanpearce: That's what I was thinking, thanks :)
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alanpearce ShaneHudson: see https://github.com/github/gitignore/blob/master/Symfony.gitignore might be helpful
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kylewm finalcut: it does look like you've got a couple of tabs in there but very good of you to submit a PR regardless
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kylewm I'm sure benwerd will appreciate it
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finalcut I think I fixed one of the tab files.. using github directly and just copying/pasting whitespace from lines that predate my change.
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@shelholtz The IndieWeb could have a place on your company's intranet. http://holtz.com/blog/internal/will-your-intranet-get-known/4405/ (twitter.com/_/status/512668738941124608)
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ben_thatmustbeme been so busy today haven't had time for indieweb things
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ben_thatmustbeme boo
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gRegor` I thought Known automatically did the bridgy kind of stuff, pulling in tweets and so on?
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snarfed gRegor`: nah, known users use bridgy too
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snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/240
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ben_thatmustbeme how much has brid.gy traffic gone up? haha
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snarfed heh
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ben_thatmustbeme i need to get a mixi account, figure out syndication and backfeed there as well
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@williamheath Thanks @bretolius - top tip. Just checked it out #indieweb #brid.gy (twitter.com/_/status/512671077399801856)
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ShaneHudson snarfed: How is bridgy faring with the amount of users? Still easily affordable?
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snarfed ShaneHudson: still easily affordable, yeah. averages under $1/day. stats at the bottom of https://www.brid.gy/, 756 accounts right now
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ShaneHudson That's pretty impressive!
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snarfed thanks!
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kylewm definitely an uptick in the last week and a half though
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kylewm afaict
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snarfed it actually throttles polling and webmention sending at a constant rate, so as it gets bigger, it just does those things slower, as opposed to incurring more load
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gRegor` What is mixi?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "mixi" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=mixi
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snarfed kylewm: definitely!
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ben_thatmustbeme gRegor` japanese equivalent of FB, invite only
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kylewm geez but yeah appengine seems like a steal compared to heroku
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ben_thatmustbeme i was looking at their API docs this morning on the train and it looked pretty straight forward
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snarfed appengine++ , happy to help or answer any q's if you do try it
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Loqi appengine has 2 karma
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KevinMarks_ Appengine makes you use Google storage stuff, which takes some learning, but is pretty efficient. Heroku let's you use more familiar ones, but bills you for them
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KevinMarks_ Are you using memcached in bridgy?
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alanpearce Openshift is another neat alternative, free for 3 small VMs
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ben_thatmustbeme makes note to start learning appengine storage bits
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snarfed KevinMarks_: memcache, yes
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KevinMarks_ That is also good for Appengine. And the fetch using Google crawl is handy
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snarfed re storage on app engine, the datastore is nosql style and cheap(ish), yes, but you can also use google cloud sql (hosted mysql)
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snarfed https://developers.google.com/cloud-sql/
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snarfed ben_thatmustbeme: funny :P
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snarfed (https://github.com/dissolve/openblog/commit/e6972ac8dcba51adcedfddb5cb5a7844c4d0ba15 )
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ben_thatmustbeme hehe
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kylewm oh i see, shrewdness/locations needs the geo data to be in the h-feed... barnaby publishes it but only on permalink pages
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gRegor` haha
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finalcut any idea why brid.gy tried to send to the root of my website AND the actual post it was in response to? https://www.brid.gy/log?start_time=1411065574&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyNQsSCFJlc3BvbnNlIid0YWc6dHdpdHRlci5jb20sMjAxMzo1MTI2NzIxMTg3ODYzODM4NzIM - it's a little confusing to see there is an error when the actual content was really replied to.
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snarfed finalcut: the original tweet has a link to your root page, which makes bridgy try to send there too
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finalcut oh, okay; that makes sense. thanks
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snarfed (glad you found the log btw!)
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finalcut I click on the wrong thing a few times before finding it :O)
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snarfed heh
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snarfed UX is hard
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finalcut yeah
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ShaneHudson I've just posted my first article with lots of photos (https://shanehudson.net/2014/09/17/goodwood-revival-2014), should they have any kind of microformat? Or fine as is?
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Loqi [mention] https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/tapple-hosting linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/hosting (webmention)
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@kartik_prabhu @parzzix this page http://indiewebcamp.com/hosting has some recommendations by #indieweb people based on experience. (twitter.com/_/status/512684307685457920)
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finalcut ShaneHudson: the link at the bottom of the article to explain webmentions loads a white page: https://shanehudson.net/webmention
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ShaneHudson finalcut: Yeah I've not got that working yet, if I override it with a page then I'm not able to actually use t as a webmention endpoint. I would like both :) Will remove link for now
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finalcut ShanHudson: the Known software seems to have something show up on the endpoint: http://rawlinson.us/webmention/
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ShaneHudson Oh yeah it is definitely possible, just need to work out how to get it working in my plugin for my CMS :)
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ShaneHudson I'm still brand new to the plugin API
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finalcut I don't really understand how the endpoints work at the moment.. but maybe the source on that page will help you
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KartikPrabhu ShaneHudson: nice looking photo article :)
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ShaneHudson KartikPrabhu: Cheers! I rarely publish photos but liked how some of them turned out
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KartikPrabhu the mf2 for photos seems to be: if it is a photo post use u-photo. if it a an article/note with a featured image use u-featured. This last one is very new and I don't think anyone has it yet.
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alanpearce http://camendesign.com/ is probably the best example of photo articles if anyone wants ideas :)
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alanpearce A shame that guy left the web :(
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KartikPrabhu ShaneHudson: how did you fi your mod_rewrite stuff!?
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ShaneHudson KartikPrabhu: I didn't manage to fix it yet. I'm moving on Saturday so need to pack (loads left to do) but will hopefully figure it out soon :)
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KartikPrabhu ShaneHudson: oh ok. good luck
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alanpearce Yeah, good luck with moving ShaneHudson. Awkward times, those
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ShaneHudson Yeah luckily it is not an entire house, final year of uni so I don't need to take any furniture or anything (phew!)
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kylewm I think /hosting could use some re-ordering ... thoughts on moving "Custom domain silos" and "Hosted CMS" down and possibly removing or de-accentuating Dropbox as a static site host?
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alanpearce That sounds good to me.
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kylewm OK I see "roughly ordered from easiest/cheapest/friendliest to most powerful/technical. "
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alanpearce Hmm, maybe listing the recommended types near the top would be helpful
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kylewm does anyone host a static site on dropbox? I know it's possible but doesn't seem supported
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alanpearce even though it's obvious for some of us, newcomers can always use some help
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alanpearce I think I've read more posts on how to host on Dropbox than I've actually seen sites on it
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@erinjo Overview of @withknown and the #indieweb on @FIRpodcast at 0:27: http://forimmediaterelease.biz/index.php?/weblog/comments/the_hobson_holtz_report_podcast_773_september_15_2014&utm_content=buffer9ed2d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer // HT @kyle_wm (twitter.com/_/status/512689278485164033)
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kylewm lol alanpearce, yes exactly
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kylewm.com edited /web_hosting (+25) "/* Amazon S3 */ caveat -- complicated to set up" (view diff)
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bret alanpearce camendesign is a totall web guru. lots of really nice thoughts on how the web [should] work. did you notice that there are no classes on any of his html tags?
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alanpearce Yeah, I did.
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bret i found his design principals really enlightening
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alanpearce I thought it was clever, but very inefficient in terms of CSS selectors
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alanpearce I still admire it, I'd much rather selection improved than we have to use classes everywhere
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kylewm.com edited /web_hosting (-167) "/* Hosted CMS Software as Service */ move Known up" (view diff)
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bret i liked at least seeing someone do that, and its interesting to see someone use the semantic html tags for something
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@mathpunk @CopyrightLibn http://indiewebcamp.com has made me a zealot for taking great care with siloing data!~ (twitter.com/_/status/512690267925671939)
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alanpearce Yeah definitely. Seeing different approaches is always good.
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bret I'm curious if indieweb stuff has ever crossed his radar
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alanpearce Probably not before his last few posts
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bret i get the impression family life and disinterest has taken over his involvement with webstuffs
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alanpearce Yup
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alanpearce I think the forum that he created is still somewhat active though
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alanpearce The no-registration thing is neat on it
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alanpearce Or rather, implicit registration
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gRegor` Thanks for the reminder about camendesign.com Love his site.
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gRegor` When I was getting into indieweb initially, I was thinking it's right up his alley
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alanpearce Oh wow.
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alanpearce I just found how much it is
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alanpearce http://camendesign.com/code/the_next_web#whatis
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gRegor` I liked http://camendesign.com/art/
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finalcut he seems to have a lot of links that don't go anywhere on that site.. or maybe I'm missing something.
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alanpearce The top-left ones? They're post tags
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kylewm.com edited /web_hosting (+236) "/* Dropbox */ add recommendation not to use dropbox" (view diff)
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alanpearce Nav is at the bottom
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alanpearce Literally content-first :)
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bret his navigation is terrible, bot overall design is brilliant
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bret s/bot/but
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Loqi bret meant to say: his navigation is terrible, but overall design is brilliant
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alanpearce I think he just has different ideas (or maybe data too) about how people use his site
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alanpearce I.e. most visits are to a specific page from a search or link in RSS (since he was a huge fan)
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gRegor` Oh, and this was really impressive. Forgot to try it out: http://camendesign.com/dom_templating
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bret he pretty much perfected an early html5 php blog within the design decisions he made
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alanpearce Yeah, dom/selector templating is common in other languages that don't do templating on their own, it seems like a great thing
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bret alanpearce except once I wanted to read more it was a pretty confusing experience
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finalcut thanks; that navigation really isn't obvious.. I'll dig around his content a bit more later.
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alanpearce True bret. I think his thinking was that you read an article and then look at the nav, rather than having to jump up the page (which is something that I've often found annoying on large articles on other sites)
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alanpearce Pros and cons. :)
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alanpearce Seems he had a pretty early implementation of notes http://camendesign.com/windows/alt-f4
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finalcut at least he didn't hit f5 to refresh and accidentally log out
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@kevinmarks #indieweb discussed again by @leolaporte @ginatrapani @jeffjarvis at the top of the show http://twit.cachefly.net/audio/twig/twig0267/twig0267.mp3 @withknown (twitter.com/_/status/512693566066266113)
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gRegor` http://postach.io/ allows hosting static sites on Evernote or Dropbox. A friend uses it, but with Evernote.
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gRegor` But no, I don't know of any indieweb people hosting on Dropbox
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bret Could the semantic html5 tags be used as implied uF2 structure?
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alanpearce It seems pretty antithetical
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bret or are they?
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alanpearce bret: not without h-* classes on some things currently
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alanpearce bret: there's a section on http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing about implied properties
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alanpearce I could see something like article -> h-entry being neat though
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bret right.... thinking what would happen if you treated the <artcile> tag as an implied h-entry
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gRegor` I just emailed Kroc a short email, inviting him to check out indiewebcamp.com as time permits.
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bret gRegor`++
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bret using the sematic html5 tags seems like it would make uF even more minimal
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alanpearce Yeah, but I guess the problem is there aren't enough for everything
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bret im sure there are all sorts of complications with this idea
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gregorlove.com created /Dropbox (+120) "stub" (view diff)
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alanpearce Some sort of person tag would be nice I guess.
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gregorlove.com created /dropbox (+21) "r" (view diff)
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alanpearce You could rel= the person and then rel= any links inside the person
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bret gRegor` that blog thing looks cool, but it smells too much like acquisition bait for me to really trust it
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gRegor` Not sure if we should put the web hosting Dropbox links on /Dropbox too (duplicate), or just move them there, or ?
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gRegor` True, bret. Though at least you have control of the files.
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alanpearce Maybe follow the wikipedia 'main article' convention
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gRegor` How easy it is to drop them as HTML onto another host . . . that's an important question :)
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gRegor` alanpearce: There is a 'main article' link already, though /Dropbox didn't exist yet. :)
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bret true, if they had that it would be rad!
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gRegor` Just not sure how much content should appear on the web hosting page vs. the dedicated /Dropbox page
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gRegor` ./web_hosting is pretty long so maybe the links should be moved
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KartikPrabhu HTML tags don't need to do everything
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KartikPrabhu HTML for document structure, mf2 for other sematics
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alanpearce Good point there. That's why I don't really like the idea of web-components
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alanpearce Well, that and it's only as semantic as defined by the javascript..
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KartikPrabhu yeah I have my concerns about web components too. Seems like they are saying "lets move templates into the client side"
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alanpearce Yeah.
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bret KartikPrabhu it seems like the semantic html5 tags dont really do much and overlapp with some h-* things
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alanpearce Client-side templating can be really powerful for a web *application*
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gregorlove.com edited /Dropbox (+824) "copying content, reformatting into sections" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu bret: yes and that is fine
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alanpearce But for most websites, client templating is just clunky and slow.
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KartikPrabhu alanpearce: well... I don't want to go down the "what's a web app" route
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gRegor` Copied to /Dropbox. Tweaked kylewm's comment only to clarify since I moved it to "Criticism" subheading
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bret KartikPrabhu I though web components were so you can have a small bit of html, css and js on a page, and give that thing its own dom and space totally separate from the rest of the page
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KartikPrabhu bret: yes. and you can write your own HTML tags
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bret hrmm, not really sure what that implies beyond custom named tag
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bret s
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KartikPrabhu yeah. that is my concern. suddenly you'll ave websites with <myawesometagnamewithnosemantics>
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alanpearce Reminds me of client-side XSLT
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alanpearce I think one of Blizzard's websites had just one tag on it at one point
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alanpearce Seemed a bit crazy to me
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KartikPrabhu XSLT--
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Loqi XSLT has -1 karma
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alanpearce XSLT--
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Loqi XSLT has -2 karma
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KartikPrabhu seems like most web devs like web components so we'll see
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alanpearce Oh yeah, I forgot that I'm not most web devs :D
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bret KartikPrabhu presumably due to name spacing issues with CSS and JS right?
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KartikPrabhu bret: yeah. the idea seems to be that you can package a "module" so to speak i with custom HTML, CSS and JS
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gRegor` What are web components?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "web components" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=web+components
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gRegor` wears his tantek hat
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KartikPrabhu btw: https://twitter.com/wesbos/status/512654208793718784
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@wesbos Amazing. Someone put script tags in their DNS info. #harlemshake http://who.is/dns/jamiehankins.co.uk (twitter.com/_/status/512654208793718784)
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alanpearce Wow.
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alanpearce XSS fail :)
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alanpearce Disappointed that youtube don't allow it to be played there
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@garethjordan .@MikeTaylor @glynmoody @creativecommons OT but an open blogging/sharing #IndieWeb tool in beta I've just come across http://withknown.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/512701273586429952)
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alanpearce I think Rick Astley should be available to everyone, everywhere, all the time.
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alanpearce ...
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alanpearce That site has a cross-site request to peniscorp.com
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kylewm.com edited /web_hosting () "(-618) /* Dropbox */ refer to main article for more info" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /Dropbox (-84) "/* Static domain hosting */ remove duplicate links and add postachio" (view diff)
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kylewm gRegor`: so does postach.io just get data from Dropbox or Evernote and post it to S3 or something like that?
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kylewm that's how Dave Winer's stuff works I think
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gregorlove.com edited /Dropbox (+18) "/* Guides */ using article titles/capitalization + quotation marks" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /Dropbox (-60) (view diff)
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gRegor` Not sure. I'm guessing it does that at least for images?
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gRegor` Yeah, just verified the photos are on S3
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gRegor` So I'm sure they're generating the HTML and caching it there, too
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gregorlove.com created /GitHub_Pages (+33) "r" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /wiki/github_pages (+33) "r" (view diff)
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@benwerd RT @erinjo: Overview of @withknown and the #indieweb on @FIRpodcast at 0:27: http://forimmediaterelease.biz/index.php?/weblog/comments/the_hobson_holtz_report_podcast_773_september_15_2014&utm_content=buffer9ed2d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer // HT @kyle_wm (twitter.com/_/status/512704166834106369)
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kylewm.com edited /Dropbox (+215) "add examples using Dropbox as storage or for transfer" (view diff)
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gRegor` Can we have multiple <dfn> on the same page?
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gRegor` Guessing Loqi would only pick up the first anyway
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alanpearce What does Loqi do with them?
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Loqi :)
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@kevinmarks RT @erinjo: Overview of @withknown and the #indieweb on @FIRpodcast at 0:27: http://forimmediaterelease.biz/index.php?/weblog/comments/the_hobson_holtz_report_podcast_773_september_15_2014&utm_content=buffer9ed2d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer // HT @kyle_wm (twitter.com/_/status/512704698076233729)
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gregorlove.com edited /Dropbox (+4) "/* Criticism */ gh-pages link" (view diff)
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gRegor` alanpearce: When you ask 'what is x?' the first sentence with <dfn> is used for the summary.
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gRegor` What is Dropbox?
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Loqi Dropbox is a file hosting web service http://indiewebcamp.com/Dropbox
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alanpearce Oh, on the wiki, right
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gregorlove.com edited /GitHub (+11) "/* GitHub Pages */ multi-dfn test" (view diff)
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alanpearce I thought you were talking generally in HTML first
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gRegor` Well, doesn't hurt anything, but yeah, Loqi doesn't catch it.
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gregorlove.com edited /Dropbox (+22) "/* See Also */ bittorrent-sync" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /github-pages (+14) "redirect to specific section" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /gh-pages (+33) "r" (view diff)
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@hardaway RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb discussed again by @leolaporte @ginatrapani @jeffjarvis at the top of the show http://twit.cachefly.net/audio/twig/twig0267/twig0267.mp3 @withknown (twitter.com/_/status/512711109766152192)
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gRegor` Nice overflow scrolling on your reply-contexts, kylewm https://kylewm.com/reply/2014/09/18/1/happy-birthday-and-congratulations
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kylewm gRegor`: thanks! i'm working on cleaning up my css and stuff
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KartikPrabhu does anyone know if it is possible to auto-POSSE to Medium?
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KevinMarks they have no API, I asked a chap there this weekend
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KevinMarks and suggested they adopt micropub
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KevinMarks :D
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: hmm cool. hopefully they take you up on it
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techlifeweb People put so much work into Medium posts. It cries out for POSSE :)
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KevinMarks they have a way to download, I'd like them to have a "post using micropub" too
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gRegor` Is it a full HTML download?
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KevinMarks yes
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KevinMarks you don't get mf-2, and they dump the CSS in the top, but otherwise pretty clean
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KevinMarks slightly crufty markup on crossheads like <h2 name="5502" class="post-h2"><a id="5502"></a><strong class="post-h2Strong">What if the linked-to text changes?</strong></h2>
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KevinMarks weird to use <a> like that for an id
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KevinMarks not exactly DRY
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dlyke KevinMarks, using an <a>(nchor) for a "name=..." ref has been the norm since HTML1, it doesn't seem all that weird to use it for other anchoring tasks.
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KevinMarks just odd to see it in html5 along with all the other ways in that post
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KevinMarks <h2 id="5502" > would work
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dlyke True.
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dlyke thinks HTML5 is the work of the devil, but also thought that about HTML4.
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KevinMarks I think HTML5 (or WHATWG living standard) documenting how to behave when it is invalid is a huge step
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tommorris The devil is in the details, remember. ;)
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snarfed ShaneHudson: hey, just fyi, looks like your webmention handler is 500ing
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snarfed https://brid-gy.appspot.com/twitter/ShaneHudson#responses
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snarfed https://www.brid.gy/log?start_time=1411078340&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyTAsSCFJlc3BvbnNlIj50YWc6dHdpdHRlci5jb20sMjAxMzo1MTI2NzU0NjM2NTE1NTMyODFfZmF2b3JpdGVkX2J5XzQwODM2NDY4MQw
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ShaneHudson snarfed: Uh oh. Thanks
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gRegor` "name" attribute values shouldn't match and "id" attribute values. http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/obsolete.html#obsolete-but-conforming-features
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gRegor` s/and/any/
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Loqi gRegor` meant to say: "name" attribute values shouldn't match any "id" attribute values. http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/obsolete.html#obsolete-but-conforming-features
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gRegor` And apparently 'name' isn't a valid attribute for h2, in html5. Didn't know that.
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kylewm snarfed: sometimes i get the feeling you are like this with everybody's webmention endpoints https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38780898/ozymandias.jpg
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snarfed ahahaha
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snarfed maybe more like http://t2.ftcdn.net/jpg/00/22/28/79/400_F_22287970_QLIjI7P7EYNgf8LGiB4SER8XohHz4kwL.jpg
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kylewm hahaha
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gRegor` Hahaha
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techlifeweb snarfed: can bridgy post to a Facebook page instead of personal acct?
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snarfed techlifeweb: hmm. maybe!
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snarfed if you can sign in as the page, then probably
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snarfed if you manage to do it, i'd love details on https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/41
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techlifeweb Typically you have to log in as you then you get a selection point. At least that's how Jetpack does it.
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techlifeweb I'll mess around with it more later and see I can do it.
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snarfed great!
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techlifeweb snarfed: Nope. If I disable everything and try it again while logged in as my page, I get a notice like You're using Facebook as a Page: To continue, you'll need to switch from using Facebook as PAGE to using Facebook as FIRST LAST.
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@wjjessen Getting "No input file specified" with your @withknown self-hosted install? Make sure your domain is using PHP5.4 CGI, not FastCGI #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/512737943304159233)
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snarfed techlifeweb: interesting. that notice is from FB, right?
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@bear @wjjessen I have a known install working with PHP5.4 and php-fpm under nginx - don't see that error #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/512738918609846274)
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techlifeweb snarfed: yep, it's a FB notice
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snarfed techlifeweb: ok. thanks for the nudge. not sure i'll get it soon, but i'll bump up priority. feel free to add details to that issue if you want!
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techlifeweb Not a big deal for me. Mostly one of those "I wonder if..." kinds of things :)
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@wjjessen @bear My @withknown install is working under Apache with PHP5.4 CGI. It breaks if I switch it to PHP5.5 FastCGI. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/512741312991215617)
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techlifeweb snarfed: details added
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snarfed techlifeweb: thanks!
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snarfed looking at your jetpack example, i wonder how it handles users with multiple pages. maybe a radio button per page
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techlifeweb I only have 1 page but I'd guess it puts a radio button per page.
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techlifeweb here is more detail on how jetpack works with FB http://jetpack.me/support/publicize/facebook/
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techlifeweb ^ includes screenshots showing radio buttons for multiple pages
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techlifeweb back later
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snarfed thanks!
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GWG snarfed: Bridgy has been working very well lately for me without having to add the URL to the post on FB/Twitter.
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snarfed GWG: awesome, glad to hear it! kylewm gets all the credit
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GWG snarfed: The quality of the discourse needs work, but I just need higher quality commenters, which Bridgy can't help me with
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KartikPrabhu GWG: that is a problem with web comments in general
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snarfed file a feature request!
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snarfed (kidding :P)
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KartikPrabhu Dear web, please give be better comments. Thanks -K
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: No. Yours, the web
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snarfed (sigh)
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KartikPrabhu boohoo
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gRegor` File that request so I can comment "first!" on it.
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GWG KartikPrabhu: You can comment on any of my recent speculative articles if you want.
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GWG We could do a comment exchange
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