#indiewebcamp 2014-10-01

2014-10-01 UTC
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@npdoty
@joeld regarding DDoS mitigation, I've proposed a change to the webmention spec that I think would help: https://github.com/converspace/webmention/issues/35
(twitter.com/_/status/517102869653499904)
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KartikPrabhu
oh hai Loqi
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tantek
Loqi missed whatever you guys said since 17:05
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Loqi
is done
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tantek
apparently
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tantek
also between 16:07 and 17:05 - or was it just quiet then?
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: we did talk since 17:05 I can provide logs to update Loqi
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KartikPrabhu
if i figue out how to get logs out of my client
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: cool - don't worry for now - aaronpk was here so he has backups
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tantek
but was it really quiet between 16:07 and 17:05?
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: Loqi missed everything but tweets between 16:01 and 17:17
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tantek
!tell npdoty your X-Forwarded header usage proposal https://github.com/converspace/webmention/issues/35 sounds interesting, could you add it to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#Brainstorming along with a sample curl command line that shows how to do it?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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npdoty
indeed I did
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Loqi
npdoty: tantek left you a message 54 seconds ago: your X-Forwarded header usage proposal https://github.com/converspace/webmention/issues/35 sounds interesting, could you add it to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#Brainstorming along with a sample curl command line that shows how to do it?
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tantek
but that's too far out of the way. actual spec changes should go on #brainstorming
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npdoty
thanks, Loqi, I saw
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npdoty
sure, I can add it there too
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: one naive I idea I had was, when A sends a webmention to B, A could include a "secret_code" in the POST request, which B can use while using GET to verify the mention by A, then A allows access only if the secret_code matches .... ?
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KartikPrabhu
npdoty: ^ also see :)
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KartikPrabhu
similar to authorization codes in micropub
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: for private posts?
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: no for preventing DDOS type things
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tantek
but I'm thinking that could work for webmentions from private posts where you want the receiver of the webmention to be able to verify it
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KartikPrabhu
afaik a third party won't have these secret codes right? if both parties are using HTTPS
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: downside - "secret_code" enables MASSIVE per receiver spamming
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KartikPrabhu
so the DDOS attacker will fail due to not having a secret code
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: but if I send the code through HTTPS only to the people I want to webmention... ?
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kylewm
doesn’t a GET request for the same URL work without a secret code?
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tantek
i.e. if I set secret_code to same as target, then I can webmention EVERYONE and simply include a temporary link to secret_code in EVERY response to a query with a secret_code
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tantek
presto - I've just faked my way to showing up on *everybody's* posts without including links back to them
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: hmm I was thinking the webmention receiver only does a GET if it gets a secret_code with it
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npdoty
KartikPrabhu, in the DDOS attack, the attacker is the one who sent the ping (he acts as sender, or person A), so he would choose the secret code
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: that's my point - that's the scenario in which the abuser wins
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KartikPrabhu
npdoty: yup and the attckers code does not match the one I have set, so I reject the GET equest immediately
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tantek
receiver does a GET with the secret_code in it, and sender includes in the reply a custom HTML page that includes a link to secret_code which happens to be the same as target. then receiver goes oh there's my target, verified.
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ben_thatmust_1
/nick ben_thatmust__
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ben_thatmust_1
well then
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: you're missing the point, the attacker *is* the one that set the secret_code in the first place
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: aaah i see, if the sender changes the HTML based on secret code... yes, it is a spam waiting to happen... i did not think of that :)
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ben_thatmust_1
so reading back i agree comments are what we get in response to a post
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tantek
yw :)
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ben_thatmust_1
a reply is a post with in-reply-to
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tantek
yay ben_thatmustbeme !
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Loqi
giggles
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ben_thatmust_1
thread has been confusing things
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KartikPrabhu
judas priest there are too many ben... s to auto complete right now
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ben_thatmust_1
but so has "context"
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ben_thatmust_1
since in the dictionary definition, a context is both text before and after
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KartikPrabhu
did not follow that discussion but for me "context" is posts that this post is in response to, and "response" is the responses to this post
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ben_thatmust_1
i didn't really like the term history for the recursive in reply-to chain
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tantek
if we know the context, then what is the protext ?
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KartikPrabhu
is that a word?
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ben_thatmust_1
oh god, KartikPrabhu, no more terms to confuse us
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ben_thatmust_1
just like the oposite of congress is progress?
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ben_thatmust_1
s/opo/oppo/
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Loqi
ben_thatmust_1 meant to say: just like the opposite of congress is progress?
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KartikPrabhu
and the opposite of contest is protest ?
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ben_thatmust_1
in-reply-to chain is the least ambiguous i can think of
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ben_thatmust_1
we drop any "history" as it doesn't make sense
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KartikPrabhu
ben_thatmust_1: not to worry, you guys can decide the "best" terminology for the wiki and I can keep using what makes sense to me on my site #indieweb ;)
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: I suggest we drop all *-thread history-* and *-chain
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ben_thatmust_1
honestly, i am not sure any of these threads need their own page.
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ben_thatmust_1
exactly
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tantek
well that would be my fault
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ben_thatmust_1
and only refer to recursive reply-context ?
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tantek
plural
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tantek
recursive reply-contexts
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KartikPrabhu
i've been known to violate an indieweb definition or two anyway
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ben_thatmust_1
or 'full reply context'
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tantek
thus keeping it clear that reply-context is *one*
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npdoty.name
edited /webmention (+966) "/* Brainstorming */ using x-forwarded-for to mitigate DDoS abuse"
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ben_thatmust_1
good point
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tantek
I'd avoid "full" as it presume you have full knowledge of something
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tantek
just as "new xyz" is bad and "old xyz" is bad
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npdoty
tantek, done.
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tantek
everything old was new once, and everything new becomes old eventually.
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tantek
such are temporally fragile naming
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ben_thatmust_1
now i'll just have to implement mine to pull in all replies to anything in the recursive reply-contexts
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ben_thatmust_1
just to screw things up :)
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tantek.com
edited /reply-context (+101) "/* history thread */ recursive reply-contexts"
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KevinMarks__
KartikPrabhu: example of URL that is different with a slash: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/ vs http://indiewebcamp.com/irc
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KartikPrabhu
aah yes that is what I was looking for :) ty
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KevinMarks__
tantek - it's not about temporally fargile, it's talking about it in ralation to the post you're displaying
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KevinMarks__
it things in its past that it is a response to, and things that happened later that responded to it
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tantek
KevinMarks you're confusing two threads here in IRC :P
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KevinMarks__
maybe thats why this is getting so messy
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tantek
naming errors:
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tantek
using "full" - presumes you have full knowledge of something
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ben_thatmust__
ack, just lost a good chuch of that conversation from a reload
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tantek
using "new something" - everything new becomes old eventually
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tantek
using "old something" - everything old was new once, and do you mean the most recent old something or the older old something?
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tantek
combining those last two: both "new something" and "old something" are temporally fragile naming errors
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KevinMarks__
I was talking about history vs context vs replies
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kylewm
definitely still living with a NewGraphArranger class from 2008
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tantek.com
edited /recursive_reply-contexts (+284) "update phrasing"
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: ok I think I fixed it all - please review. :) /reply-context and /recursive_reply-context
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tantek.com
edited /reply-context (+12) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ recursive reply-contexts"
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ben_thatmust__
that looks a lot cleaner
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KartikPrabhu
that might also be the picture anti-indieweb people have to the indieweb
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /User:Ben.thatmustbe.me (+154) "in-reply-to hack, and error messages completed"
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /User:Ben.thatmustbe.me (+0) "sorting TODO list"
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ben_thatmust__
wew, knocking out more of my todo list
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tantek.com
edited /MySQL (-137) "/* Ben Werdmuller */ nope. MongoDB"
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tantek.com
edited /MongoDB (+17) "benwerd is a current MongoDB user, but plans on switching"
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ben_thatmust__
he's been planning on switching for quite some time if I remember
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kylewm
mko was making mongo sound pretty great the other day
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ben_thatmust__
tantek, reading back on this vouch stuff now... haven't gotten all the way through it, but wouldn't it only take one person who has auto accepting webmentions to be able to spam everyone in their friends network
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ben_thatmust__
or rather, once one spam link gets it, it could spread to all that site's friends, and then that sites, friends. and once that is accomplished you basically have the task of trying to fight a virus
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ben_thatmust__
in the human body sense that is
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ben_thatmust__
i think an XFN 'friend list' would be useful, then you know its not some errant link or a "look at this site, its funny but also has spam" link
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KartikPrabhu
is adactio.com down for anyone else?
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GWG
KartikPrabhu: Not working for me
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KartikPrabhu
time to send a DM... wish I had private posts working already
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ben_thatmust__
KartikPrabhu, me too, that should get interesting though and probably tie in to a list of contacts idea
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KartikPrabhu
yes and indieauth :) only see post if you login with your domain
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KartikPrabhu
seems I can't DM adactio on twitter because he does not follow me... interesting
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ben_thatmust__
well yes, but i mean, its annoying if i want to send a message to someone or worse multiple people, I have to look up their url constantly
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ben_thatmust__
it would be nice to just have a drop down and say "post this privately to A,B,and C"
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KartikPrabhu
ben_thatmust__ : of course. same as auto-linking in notes :)
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KartikPrabhu
how would one send a private webmention?
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ben_thatmust__
auto-linking in notes?
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ben_thatmust__
you send a webmention but when the server pulls that page, it returns a
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ben_thatmust__
there is a wiki page
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KartikPrabhu
ben_thatmust__: yeah you @mention someone in a note and it auto-links to the appropiate profile fom your address book
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ben_thatmust__
that would be cool
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: already does this. should work the same for private posting :)
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ben_thatmust__
/indieweb-messaging has you polling twice for every request. I really wish there were some way to say in the webmention 'this is a priv message, i'll need an auth key'
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ben_thatmust__
you could infer it from it being a reply to a private post, but thats all
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ben_thatmust__
alternatively i could just always include the auth keys when polling from a site I have a key for, but then i don't know what ones are private or public
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KevinMarks_
Can't it day so in the header?
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kylewm.com
edited /indie-config (+1225) "/* See Also */ poorly written stab at documenting the indieweb examples so far"
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ben_thatmust__
saying that its private
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ben_thatmust__
certainly, just need something standard for that. I know a number of people don't like to do things in the http headers as they cannot do that on static sites, but it could be done in meta tags or in microformats perhaps
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ben_thatmust__
i wouldn't mind showing the viewers of the post that it was intended for them and someone else
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ben_thatmust__
or do you mean the webmention say that its private when it sends
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ben_thatmust__
anyway, its late here, i should get to bed
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: you mean you're not already linking with rel=follow to external reply permalinks in your comments display?
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tantek
I should have clarified, a rel=nofollow link from C to A does not count as a vouch
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Loqi
agreed.
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tantek
I love it when Loqi double-checks my protocols. :)
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Loqi
grins profusely
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tantek
good q - have to check my webmention.io :)
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tantek
verified 2014-09-30T13:20:31+00:00!
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tantek
acegiak - in short - it makes it: 1. less work on the part of the receiver.
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tantek
2. allows a *dynamic* 2nd degres to comment on your stuff - beyond XFN tree whitelist
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KartikPrabhu
acegiak: sounds sot of like the objection i was making against "vouch"
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KartikPrabhu
just like I don't go back and see if my comment passed moderation or not, it is unlikely that i'll go back, look for a suitable vouch and resend a webmention
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acegiak
tantek: oh. i get it in the context of manually adding webmentions
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acegiak
tantek: can you explain the dynamic bit a little more?
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tantek
it's dynamic because every day people you've linked to in the past, themselves link to new folks all the time - thus dynamic. even if you're not doing anything yourself.
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acegiak
tantek: ah ok. so you're suggesting that non-xfn links also count
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tantek
bingo
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tantek
non-rel-nofollow links
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tantek
the point is you can *still* moderate, delete, block *after* that
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tantek
this is just to auto-filter all the obvious spams from people you don't know who are just trolling you for linkbacks etc.
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tantek
it won't stop people you sort of know from spamming you - the response to that is to give them a hard time socially. that is, if you have a social tie with them already, them spamming you is straining that social tie
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tantek
and that aspect no code/protocol will deal with - you have to deal with that human to human
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acegiak
oh my god
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acegiak
"Why doesn't whisperfollow seem to be pulling anything from mf2 pages?"
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acegiak
if there's no rss feed detected it calls the mf2 parsing function on the bookmark
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acegiak
and then the function attempts to parse... the rss feed
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KartikPrabhu
what is whisperfollow?
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Loqi
WhisperFollow is a WordPress based social reader create by acegiak that currently supports H-Entry, RSS, Atom and PubSubHubbub http://indiewebcamp.com/Whisperfollow
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KartikPrabhu
reader for Wordpress nice
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acegiak
I've become addicted to it though
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GWG
acegiak: Addictive dogfooding...hmmm...
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acegiak
like in a "checks every few minutes" way
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GWG
Sounds like Flappy ird
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GWG
Bird
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tantek
you created your own dopamine hook ;)
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acegiak
apparently!
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acegiak
GWG: if you're using it I'll push a fix for the mf2 thing shortly
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GWG
I haven't had a chance. Been busy
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acegiak
EXCELLENT! so you won't have been disappointed by that stupid bug
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GWG
I tried it for a moment, temporarily disabling Semantic Linkbacks
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acegiak
GWG: I pushed a fix to both for the collision
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GWG
acegiak: By the way, more people seem to be using the Taxonomy plugin
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acegiak
awesome!
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GWG
Have to figure out what's next.
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acegiak
GWG: is there something you want it to do that it doesn't do at the moment?
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GWG
Well, I want to redesign the theming to be a bit more flexible.
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GWG
I have some random thoughts about changing the way the automatic content embed works.
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GWG
I want to refine it, and add in the ability to build other things off it.
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voxpelli
!tell tantek,barnabywalters,kylewm My quick stab at a web component using X-Tags can be found here: https://github.com/voxpelli/indie-action-component Not sure if X-Tags is the right way to go, Polymer might be preferable. (Or perhaps a non-Web Component polyfill)
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Loqi
voxpelli: barnabywalters left you a message 8 hours, 25 minutes ago: did you publish your indie-action webcomponent code anywhere? I’d love to add it to shrewdness for people who don’t have micropub enabled!
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Loqi
voxpelli: tantek left you a message 8 hours, 12 minutes ago: could you provide the URL where you have (had?) <indie-action> markup plus web componenets support e.g. with reply and pay actions?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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voxpelli
Was that the right way to have loqi deliver a message to multiple people?
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@rizzardcore
SOME #indiedev and #indiegame and #indiegames and #indieweb people are some of the worst fucking people on earth... https://twitter.com/rizzardcore/status/517202763051433984/photo/1
(twitter.com/_/status/517202763051433984)
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@TheIndieSloth
RT @rizzardcore: SOME #indiedev and #indiegame and #indiegames and #indieweb people are some of the worst fucking people on earth... http:/…
(twitter.com/_/status/517202766666936321)
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@indiegamesdevel
RT @rizzardcore: SOME #indiedev and #indiegame and #indiegames and #indieweb people are some of the worst fucking people on earth... http:/…
(twitter.com/_/status/517202925459087360)
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@GameDevRobot
RT @rizzardcore: SOME #indiedev and #indiegame and #indiegames and #indieweb people are some of the worst fucking people on earth... http:/…
(twitter.com/_/status/517203521905504256)
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acegiak
ok what do tantek.com and waterpigs.com have in common that is making my mf2 parsing not work...
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wwelves.org perpetual-tripper
edited /IndieAuth (+203) "/* Issues */ added placeholder for possible issue with RDFa"
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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@HealthEugene
earned $2.39 from selling my own data via @DataCoup last month - not about the money but the principle.. :) #ownyourdata
(twitter.com/_/status/517252357835739136)
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ben_thatmust
hmm, okay so only on links without nofollow. I don't always put no-follow links in articles I post.
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kodfabrik.se
edited /indie-config (+112) "Added a link to my proof-of-concept indie-action web component"
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voxpelli
!tell kylewm Regarding how to fallback if no indie configuration is present, I believe one would have to use a timeout on the request, but perhaps there are better ways.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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SkippyUK
part
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tantek.com
edited /IndieAuth (-203) "RDFa's rel problem belongs on a page about "rel" not IndieAuth"
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barnabywalters
I didn’t really understand that issue. Does RDFa “break” if you have links with rel attributes on the page?
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Loqi
barnabywalters: voxpelli left you a message 6 hours, 4 minutes ago: My quick stab at a web component using X-Tags can be found here: https://github.com/voxpelli/indie-action-component Not sure if X-Tags is the right way to go, Polymer might be preferable. (Or perhaps a non-Web Component polyfill)
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tantek.com
edited /IndieAuth (+203) "/* Issues */ RDFa - incompatible rel processing, cite longer explanation a microformats.org"
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tantek
ben_thatmustbe: in general you should NOT put rel=nofollow on your links - that's the point - you're linking to something you think has relevance and that someone you're likely ok with commenting on your posts
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Loqi
tantek: voxpelli left you a message 6 hours, 10 minutes ago: My quick stab at a web component using X-Tags can be found here: https://github.com/voxpelli/indie-action-component Not sure if X-Tags is the right way to go, Polymer might be preferable. (Or perhaps a non-Web Component polyfill)
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Loqi
tantek: KartikPrabhu left you a message 3 hours, 39 minutes ago: you might want to review this edit: http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?diff=14000&oldid=13140&rcid=14042
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: what vouch adds is the implicit "ok to comment" on people that your links themselves link to, which is a reasonable approximation. It's unlikely that those you link to themselves link to spam.
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tantek
or if they do, *then* you can a) tell them directly, and then link to them with nofollow.
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acegiak
tantek: I've fallen back to using your atom feed because I can't work out why whispefollow won't read your h-entries
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barnabywalters
acegiak: might it be because tantek’s homepage h-entries are children of a top-level h-card?
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barnabywalters
in fact, that’s wrong — they’re children of a h-feed which is a child of a h-card
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acegiak
barnabywalters: shouldn't be. I'm using your findMicroformatsByType function
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acegiak
to just get all the h-entrys
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barnabywalters
acegiak: hrm okay, that works fine for me
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barnabywalters
acegak: but $feeditem will be a list of h-feeds, whereas later on you’re expecting it to be a single object: https://github.com/acegiak/WhisperFollow/blob/master/WFCore.php#L246 https://github.com/acegiak/WhisperFollow/blob/master/WFCore.php#L258
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barnabywalters
not sure if that’s related to this issue?
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acegiak
barnabywalters: it doesn't seem to be creating an issue for any other mf2 pages?
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barnabywalters
acegiak: strange. It’s worth fixing regardless, as that conditional will always fall back to $page as it is :) Other than that I can’t see what might be wrong
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barnabywalters
do you have a PHP debugger set up? if not, you could interactively test that function locally with tantek’s site and see what’s going on
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barnabywalters
http://psysh.org/ is a really handy tool for this — like a minimal ipython for PHP
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barnabywalters
acegiak: btw, mf-cleaner also has some functions for more robustly getting microformats properties, e.g. rather than assuming e-content with $mf[‘properties’][‘content’][0][‘html’], M\getHtml($mf, ‘content’, [optional fallback]) will look first for [‘html’], falling back to html-escaping the value if it’s a plaintext property
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barnabywalters
(and falling back to [optional fallback] if the ‘content’ property doesn’t exist at all)
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek_ tantek___ that all makes sense to me, i'd make sure to note that the vouch could also be a link from within your own site as well. if I linked to an article, i may not record that, but i'd still want to accept mentions from them. Also note that this really only works as a generated white list, its just a first level to spam filtering
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bear.im
edited /indie-stats (+178) "stat items to calculate"
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cweiske
bear, indiestats.com login fails with my id server:
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cweiske
Invalid URL in "client_id" parameter: scheme missing
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bear
oh poo
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cweiske
&client_id=bear.im
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bear
ok, I thought I fixed that
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bear
when I get off of the train i'll take a look at that
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acegiak
barnabywalters: oh, that's cool. I should look into using some of those functions
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cweiske.de
edited /website-analytics (+31) "/* Log Analyzers */"
(view diff)
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acegiak
and yeah I should set up a debugger, just haven't got around to it yet
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barnabywalters
acegiak: I think netbeans does interactive PHP debugging quite well, but my favourite is jetbrains PHPStorm, which you can get a free copy of if you’re working on open source software
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cweiske
in that case you also may only use it to work on OSS software
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acegiak
I'm doing everything over ssh
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cweiske
ssh -Y :)
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barnabywalters
acegiak: you don’t have a copy of your code running locally?
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barnabywalters
doesn’t work on any non-OSS PHP :) only python for work
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jenmontes.com
edited /web_hosting (+124) "/* Virtual Private Server */ Added Atlantic.net's new $0.99 a month VPS"
(view diff)
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barnabywalters
cuibonobo: do you use atlantic.net? they look like quite a good deal
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barnabywalters
especially the XS or S packages, which is slightly better than my current provider but for much less
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cuibonobo
barnabywalters: i don't, but i'm specifically interested in how to get lower-income people on the indie web so it seems like a good entry-level option
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cuibonobo
i personally use digitalocean. they've been excellent
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barnabywalters
yeah, $12 a year is a pretty great price for a VPS
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /vouch (+2788) "first pass at vouch protocol summary"
(view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
!tell tantek, first pass at /vouch protocol summary, please review
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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barnabywalters
I’m also cautiously interested in whether the various free domain name registrars could be used to make it easier for people to get on the indieweb
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barnabywalters
if they have an API for registering domain names, hosted services like known could offer free signups with your own domain name, completely config-free
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barnabywalters
just type the desired domain name in a text field when signing up
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cuibonobo
barnabywalters: i've been researching that as well but from a different angle: getting dynamic DNS sites like noip.com to point to a server
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cuibonobo
the only catch is that you need to 'renew' your domain name every 30 days, but i just tried it and it seems to work: jenmontes.sytes.net
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barnabywalters
cuibonobo: interesting — have you come across http://pagekite.net/? I’ve used it in the past with raspberry pis
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barnabywalters
the creator (Bjarni Einarsson) came to IWC UK 2013 and demoed it there
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cuibonobo
yes! i've used it to get around dumb firewalls. it's genius.
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barnabywalters
such a good tool
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barnabywalters
it looks like a company called freenom have developer plans and an API which allows programmatic registration of free domains: https://my.freenom.com/details/free_domains.html
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cuibonobo
but what do we know about the longevity of these domains?
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cweiske
price vs. who is the product
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barnabywalters
as far as I can tell, if you don’t pay you can register them for up to 12 months, and then renew for free two weeks before the end of the renewal period
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barnabywalters
cweiske: yeah exactly, hence being quite cautious of these services
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barnabywalters
there’s no point giving people free domains if myname.tk is less reliable and you have less control than myname.withknown.com
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barnabywalters
if nothing else, it would be a wonderfully compelling demo, to actually have a working “sign up for a personal website” service with a single field
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barnabywalters
it would show that “this is how easy it can be, and should be”
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petermolnar
in theory a tld domain could be used for free, non-commercial, personal sites
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petermolnar
but as far as I know, there's no intention going around doing it
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cuibonobo
ok. i'm researching the dot TK company in particular. seems like the government of Tokelau gave them exclusive registration rights for their country, and any proceeds will go toward development projects on the Islands of Tokelau
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cuibonobo
one of their income generators is expired domains: http://www.nic.tk/en/aftermarket-1.html
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petermolnar
I have a long-shot idea: what if there really was a tld domain, with as much free entries as many DNS servers you're willing to host to serve the tld zone?
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cuibonobo
other revenue streams for dot TK include a $75 a month subscription service for brand protection to make sure trademarked stuff isn't squatted on
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cuibonobo
and then the regular stuff you'd expect from a domain provider: hosting, DNS, etc.
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cuibonobo
besides monetizing expired domains, nothing on their "business opportunities" section seems too fishy
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barnabywalters
cuibonobo: .tk also charge huge amounts of money for very short domains (e.g. if tantek wanted t.tk he’d have to shell out thousands of $$$)
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waterpigs.co.uk
edited /personal-domain (+839) "added section on free domain names, noted potential caveats, freenom dev plan and API"
(view diff)
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cuibonobo
barnabywalters: ah! i didn't see that on their site. interesting.
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barnabywalters
cuibonobo: petermolnar: ^^^ I started a section on free domain names, please add any clarifications/caveats/brainstorming
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barnabywalters
it would be awesome to get this working with known, for example
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waterpigs.co.uk
created /personal-domains (+28) "Redirected page to [[personal-domain]]"
(view diff)
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cuibonobo
i just tried out the dot TK registration process and their confirmation email sent me back my password in cleartext. lol. wat
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barnabywalters
cuibonobo: ugh seriously
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petermolnar.eu
edited /personal-domain (+348) "/* See Also */"
(view diff)
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cuibonobo
barnabywalters: and i got a 502 error the first time i clicked the confirmation link. hardly the kind of infrastructure i'd like to make an app depend on, but it's free!
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barnabywalters
cuibonobo: heh — maybe one of the other free registrars are better
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barnabywalters
cuibonobo++ for actually trying free registrars out
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Loqi
cuibonobo has 10 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme
by the way cuibonobo, I now display error messages when you login and it fails, haven't gotten terribly detailed with it yet though
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cuibonobo
ben_thatmustbeme: feedback win! huzzah!
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GWG
Morning
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cuibonobo
good morning!
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GWG
What is going on?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "going on" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=going+on
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petermolnar
I feel a Loqi patch had to be done soon :)
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ben_thatmustbeme
cuibonobo, eventually I want to make my own auth endpoint, which will warn you if you don't have an auth endpoint specified. OR if you are getting there and it isn't your proper endpoint.
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waterpigs.co.uk
created /going_on (+16) "“what’s going on?”"
(view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
i was just about to do that myself
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Loqi
Welcome to news about the IndieWeb where recent notable articles about the IndieWeb are cited and linked to keep you up to date http://indiewebcamp.com/new
jet___, wolftune and eburcat joined the channel
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GWG
Trying to figure out how to prioritize the Indieweb things that I want to do
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ben_thatmustbeme
i usually go with easiest when i don't have much time, and most fun when i do
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GWG
Well, not everything is fun per se
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ben_thatmustbeme
after that its by necessity
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ben_thatmustbeme
GWG do you have your list public
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GWG
Not in any organized fashion
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@localherodotbiz
Can the @withknown folks comment on what they are doing that can't be done currently via wordpress with plugins? #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/517341359707922433)
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GWG
ben_thatmustbeme, one thing that I want to do is iterate and refine what I have that works.
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GWG
Not as exciting as new features
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jenmontes.com
edited /personal-domain (+1416) "/* Free Domain Names */ Added research on free domain registrars"
(view diff)
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jenmontes.com
edited /personal-domain (+2) "/* Free Domain Registrars */ Fixing internal link"
(view diff)
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jenmontes.com
edited /personal-domain (+52) "/* Free Domain Registrars */ Added countries for good measure"
(view diff)
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kylewm
withknown needs a FAQ
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Loqi
kylewm: voxpelli left you a message 9 hours, 29 minutes ago: My quick stab at a web component using X-Tags can be found here: https://github.com/voxpelli/indie-action-component Not sure if X-Tags is the right way to go, Polymer might be preferable. (Or perhaps a non-Web Component polyfill)
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Loqi
kylewm: voxpelli left you a message 4 hours, 51 minutes ago: Regarding how to fallback if no indie configuration is present, I believe one would have to use a timeout on the request, but perhaps there are better ways.
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ben_thatmustbeme
GWG, i know exactly what you mean
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kylewm
voxpelli++
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Loqi
voxpelli has 8 karma
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jenmontes.com
edited /personal-domain (+141) "/* Free Domain Registrars */ Added note about what is displayed in WHOIS information"
(view diff)
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davidmead
aaronpk: just got OwnYourGram working with my Known account. Nice :-)
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aaronpk_
davidmead: nice!!
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Loqi
aaronpk_: tantek left you a message on 9/30 at 1:40pm: all of tantek_ and tantek___ and tantek_otp are leftover connections from ?beta Join - server might need rebooting to let go of those connections.
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Loqi
aaronpk_: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message on 9/30 at 1:41pm: ben_thatmust_ is leftover too
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aaronpk_
tantek_: haha ok
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Loqi
rofl
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davidmead
aaronpk: I couldn’t get it working with my WP blog, so I may move over to a self-hosted version of Known soon
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aaronpk_
is there a micropub plugin for wordpress now?!
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davidmead
aaronpk: not that i know of, that’s why it didn’t work :-(
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aaronpk_
thought you had found one that wasn't working
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barnabywalters
greetings aaronpk_!
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aaronpk_
hi barnabywalters!
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davidmead
no. and i couldn’t get schnarfed Instagram importer to work either. He lloked at it and it was an Instagram issue
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aaronpk_
oh yeah ownyourgram doesn't import yet. i do need to work on that cause I need to import my own photos
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davidmead
i used http://instaport.me/ to get a dump of my stuff as a .zip, just in case
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aaronpk_
I also made http://flickstagram.org a long time ago which pushes them all to flick
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davidmead
i’ll have to try that
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ben_thatmustbeme
didn't know about that one
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aaronpk_
I was pushing photos so fast to flickr that the API guys noticed it!
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ben_thatmustbeme
hey, I was thinking about including the Short_url in my posts
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aaronpk_
I ran in to one of them at a hackathon and he was like oh you're the guy that made that app?
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ben_thatmustbeme
but don't know what the correct markup for that would be
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davidmead
i think this is now the pain point of #indieweb - wrestling your content from silos and import it in a meaningful way to your blog. retaining the meta info & dates
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aaronpk_
I spent a loooong time making sure to grab all the metadata from instagram when it imports to flickr
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ben_thatmustbeme
well with micropub the idea would be it should iterate over each of those and just ship them out
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jonnybarnes
the micropub page mentions short urls
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barnabywalters
davidmead: one of the pain points :)
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aaronpk_
hashtags in the caption show up as flickr tags, location is included, all the comments show up in the flickr description
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davidmead
barnabywalters: lol, yeah
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jonnybarnes
ben_thatmustbeme: the micropub page uses rel="shortlink"
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aaronpk_
I publish "shortlink" on my pages too
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davidmead
aaronpk: cool thing about yr ownyourgram & #indieauth was I just changed my homepage URL in Twitter bio to http://davidmead.withknown.com/, and it worked like a dream :-)
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aaronpk_
ha cool
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk_ side note, need to escape double quotes in the meta tags. the og:title tag is broken
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aaronpk_
oh crap
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ben_thatmustbeme
i probably have the same bug, not sure
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aaronpk_
man google analytics is confusing the crap out of me, it's all different than it was 5 years ago. I think I might just turn it off on my site cause I don't even know what to look for anymore
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aaronpk_
basically I just want to know what pages are getting the most traffic
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ben_thatmustbeme
there is a definite downside to ownyourgram... even the terrible photos of my co-worker end up on my site
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aaronpk_
ben_thatmustbeme: simple solution: stop taking terrible photos :P
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@401matthall
If I've changed my domain name how do I point #bridgy to my new domain name? #bridgy #indieweb #known
(twitter.com/_/status/517352862230544385)
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aaronpk_
methinks we're gonna see a lot of questions about "how do I ____ after I change my domain name" thanks to known providing subdomains by default
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk_ you might be right. does known offer redirects to new domain names if you change off
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aaronpk_
that's a good idea
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aaronpk_
that's a very responsible thing to do as a service provider that supports indieweb principles
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bear
is indieauth.com feeling ok? (or is it my amtrak-train wifi connection?)
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aaronpk_
bear: looks fine to me
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bear
k, i'll blame the wifi
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barnabywalters
aaronpk_: indeed, it’s going to be an interesting case for apps which consume indieweb content to handle
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aaronpk_
yes also that!
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aaronparecki.com
edited /friendly (+260) "provide HTTP redirects if someone changes their domain (thanks ben.thatmustbe.me!)"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /going_on (+22) "fix double redir"
(view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
oh and aaronpk_ as far as google analytics, if its been that long have you updated to the new tag?
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aaronpk_
new tag?
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ben_thatmustbeme
yeah, they changed the code on their JS tag a little while back
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aaronpk_
i have no idea lol
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ben_thatmustbeme
the old one is still supported, but you get more options
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tantek
the flip side of free domains is lowering the barrier for spammers to generate new domains on the fly :/
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Loqi
tantek: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 2 hours, 12 minutes ago: pass at /vouch protocol summary, please review
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ben_thatmustbeme
it should have something about upgrading to "universal analytics tag"
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aaronpk_
oh maybe I did
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: will do! thanks for the initial write-up!
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barnabywalters
tantek: indeed, which demands some sort of identity check e.g. requiring a unique email address, and then (for example) limiting people to one free domain per email
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tantek
I'd like to see a way to bootstrap (in the general sense) to a new domain *without* previously owning an email or phone number.
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tantek
s/to a new/to owning a new
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: I'd like to see a way to bootstrap (in the general sense) to owning a new domain *without* previously owning an email or phone number.
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aaronpk_
sounds perfect for spammers :(
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ben_thatmustbeme
oh, and aaronpk Behavior -> Overview is what you are looking for
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aaronpk_
ben_thatmustbeme: I don't have that option
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tantek
voxpelli++ for writing up his <indie-action> web components implementation from IndieWebCampUK!
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Loqi
voxpelli has 9 karma
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jonnybarnes
does this PHP make sense? if(($var !== null) && ($var !== '')) {}
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voxpelli
tantek: I should write up even more about it, it's still on my todo of doing :P
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aaronpk_
wtf google analytics provides demographic data?
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barnabywalters
yep, it’d be cool to find some way of registering a domain without requiring legacy contact information
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tantek
!tell davidmead now that you're making so much progress with your Known, add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people so show up all nice in the logs - e.g. compare nearby statements here: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-10-01/line/1412180621975
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk_, they have for a while, but it was hacky, now its just adding 1 line in the tracking tag
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk_ if you are missing that you are probably outdated. go into admin / it should have upgrade info there
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tantek
speaking of /friendly - has anyone shown / sent that page to the Ello folks?
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aaronpk_
I don't know if I actually want to enable that
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ben_thatmustbeme
you don't have to do the demographics stuff
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ben_thatmustbeme
they piggy back on some other company for it, thats why you have to add the line
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ben_thatmustbeme
i forget who
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aaronpk_
i still can't even find my top pages anymore
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aaronpk_
I just want to drop it completely. I bet I can write my own tiny analytics that gives me list of top pages pretty quick.
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ben_thatmustbeme
yeah, that should be pretty simple
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aaronpk_
oh and I guess seeing referers is nice too
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fwr
what's a good minimal open indie-lytics solution?
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aaronpk_
I tried piwik a while ago
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aaronpk_
it's not exactly minimal, but it's self-hosted and comparable to GA
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fwr
i dont even log. once it scrolss off stderr, poof
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fwr
thx
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ben_thatmustbeme
figured, my top 3 pages. 1: /, 2: /new (my micropub client), ad 3: /note/2014/9/12/1/_ because tantek replied to it
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fwr
love when referers are displayed on-page. obviously something spammers would like to tohugh
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aaronpk_
that's basically waht comment display is
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tantek
fwr - easy, only display referers from your (dynamic) "whitelist" :)
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@kyle_wm
@401matthall just need to change your social media bio to point to the new domain and reauth on https://brid.gy #indieweb @withknown
(twitter.com/_/status/517358896499802112)
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@bike
@willplayforfood @gln @aisforanne you're right. to hell with this. I'm rewriting the streaming delivery apps in HTML. /@robrasmussen
(twitter.com/_/status/517342005068705792)
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tantek
the more people we have writing code to natively read/write HTML for the web for their apps, the more holes we poke in the theories that you always "need" XML/JSON/RDFa/databases/YAML/etc. for "storage" for all apps.
squeakytoy, chrissaad, catsup, a_ and emmak joined the channel
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jancborchardt
hmm – tantek is erinjo around in this channel at all? Just wanted to let here know that our »Open Source Design« devroom for the FOSDEM conference in Brussels was accepted – and it would be cool to have her there: https://twitter.com/jancborchardt/status/517350150574837760
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@jancborchardt
Open Source Designers rejoice:Our »Open Source Design« devroom at #FOSDEM was accepted!https://fosdem.org/2015/news/2014-09-30-accepted-devrooms/
(twitter.com/_/status/517350150574837760)
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tantek
jancborchardt: she pops in from time to time. And congrats on getting the design devroom accepted!
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jancborchardt
tantek: thanks! Are you at FOSDEM at all? Or are there any other IndieWebCamp folks you think should attend especially the OS Design devroom? I’m already in touch with Brennan
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tantek
I'm not unfortunately. Brennan (bnvk in the channel) is the right contact as he ran IndieWebCamp 2014 in Berlin (as you know :) )
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aaronpk_
maybe caseorganic would be up for it? (not sure her travel schedule around that time)
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tantek
maybe also ping Harry Halpin - he seems to be in Europe often and may be going to FOSDEM
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tantek
he's the W3C staff contact for the W3C Social WG https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg
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tantek
(boy do they / we need a ton more UX / user / design focus more than protocols :) )
#
jenmontes.com
edited /personal-domain (+604) "/* Free Domain Registrars */ Added note about how ToS for free domain registrars could be dangerous"
(view diff)
j12t, benwerd and elima joined the channel
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post-by-email
uploaded /File:20141001-175029.txt "Uploaded via email by "Commerzbank AG"<no-rep*@*2.4shared.com>"
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bret
aaronpk_: is [[File:20141001-175029.txt]] a form of spam? posted by email?
#
bret
or tantek ^
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cuibonobo
hah! looks like it *was* some kind of virus / malware but the email host switched it with a text file: http://indiewebcamp.com/images/0/07/20141001-175029.txt
adactio joined the channel
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cuibonobo
how is post-by-email even allowed?
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tantek
ahem, aaronpk ;)
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aaronpk_
it's useful for uploading photos from events
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benwerd
had so many requests for that
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Loqi
benwerd: tantek left you a message on 9/28 at 8:31pm: I presume from http://werd.io/2014/thedavidjohnson-we-actually-recommend-mysql-known-started-with-mongodb-but that you're using MySQL on werd.io? If not please correct me here: indiewebcamp.com/MongoDB
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aaronpk_
probably needs some sort of verification tho
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tantek
already taken care of
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tantek
benwerd :)
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tantek
! tell KevinMarks perhaps next time you have a timely tweet re: Ello, perhaps suggest that they add IndieWeb support per http://indiewebcamp.com/friendly
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tantek
!tell KevinMarks perhaps next time you have a timely tweet re: Ello, perhaps suggest that they add IndieWeb support per http://indiewebcamp.com/friendly
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk_
adactio++
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aaronpk_
awesome!
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Loqi
adactio has 5 karma
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adactio
aaronpk_: Cheers!
#
tantek
nice hit targets you got there adactio
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tantek
adactio++
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Loqi
adactio has 6 karma
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tantek
welcome hober!
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adactio
tantek: Thanks. Maybe I should post a gist/jsbin with the CSS.
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aaronpk_
or even a blog post :D
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KartikPrabhu
adactio++ for big sliding checkboxes :)
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Loqi
adactio has 7 karma
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tantek
hober, go ahead and add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people so you show up all nice in the logs! e.g. check out: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-10-01/line/1412187301197
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cuibonobo
aaronpk_: i'm trying to understand the `vouch` extension. are you saying that you can vouch for someone if you have their site on a list where the link *does not* have rel=nofollow?
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aaronpk_
I think you should ask tantek about that. I haven't caught up with the "vouch" work yet.
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tantek
cuibonobo: no list. just a link without rel-nofollow
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wwelves.org perpetual-tripper
edited /IndieAuth (+111) "/* RDFa */ added link to solution"
(view diff)
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tantek
from C to A
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tantek
nice of elf to find a workaround to the issue he found!
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KevinMarks_
Tantek I tried unmunging ello's json to h-feed yesterday, but their permalinks aren't in it
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Loqi
KevinMarks_: tantek left you a message 11 minutes ago: perhaps next time you have a timely tweet re: Ello, perhaps suggest that they add IndieWeb support per http://indiewebcamp.com/friendly
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KevinMarks_
So to do it I'll need to parse their html
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tantek.com
edited /YAGNI (+70) "/* See Also */ shaners' example"
(view diff)
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tantek
KevinMarks: having to parse their HTML and their invisible sidefiles and match things up - where have I heard that before? ;)
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gRegor`
tantek, KevinMarks: I @'d one of the Ello devs yesterday. No response yet. https://ello.co/gregorlove/post/0LGJ_01RwAKKrB5iDfqO1w
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cuibonobo
tantek: ok. the problem with that is that a spammer could potentially do `source=http://spam.com&target=http://aaronparecki.com/some/post&vouch=https://google.com/+aaronpk`
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ben_thatmustbeme
cuibonobo, that would only work if google.com/+aaronpk linked to spam.com
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gRegor`
Only if https://google.com/+aaronpk has linked to spam.com before, if I understand correctly
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tantek
cuibonobo nope - https://google.com/+aaronpk does not link to spam.com
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tantek
vouch fail
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ben_thatmustbeme
and aaronparecki.com acccepted any vouch from google
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ben_thatmustbeme
which i would not recommend anyway
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tantek
gRegor`: not quite, not "linked to spam.com" before but *actually links to spam.com now*
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: aaronpk likely has linked to google.com
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tantek
thus using google.com as vouch is reasonable
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tantek
however this does raise an issue for our IRC logs
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ben_thatmustbeme
also a reason I would not trust indiewebcamp.com at all either
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tantek
I suggest that any hyperlinks in any statements from anyone in the logs who is *not* in /irc-people have rel=nofollow place upon them, so people can't use the logs for vouching
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aaronpk_
KevinMarks_: there are no permalinks in the JSON feed? That seems like... bad design
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: why?
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danlyke
yeah, I think sites/implementers need to be super cautious about who they use as vouch sites; I won't trust every site I link to.
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek, anyone could edit the wiki and then use that as their vouch
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danlyke
Heck, in moments of weakness I've linked to sites like sfgate.com and Huffington Post, it's quite possible that advertisers on those sites will spam me with WebMentions.
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: and there's exactly zero spam on the wiki right now
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gRegor`
If a link has rel=nofollow, it shouldn't be used for vouching, correct?
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: given that edits show up here - I expect them any additions to disappear within seconds
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ben_thatmustbeme
<Loqi> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Post-by-email * uploaded "[[File:20141001-175029.txt]]": Uploaded via email by "Commerzbank AG"<no-rep*@*2.4shared.com>
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: e.g. try and find a spam link on Wikipedia even
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KevinMarks_
There are permalinks with db ids in, but not the long hex strings they actually use
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gRegor`
Speaking of spam, think some just got uploaded :)
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ben_thatmustbeme
yeah, that got cleared out
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tantek
gRegor`: no that was just ben_thatmustbeme quoting loqi
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gRegor`
Oh. Hah
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tantek
danlyke - can you show non-rel-nofollow links from huffpo or sfgate to advertisers?
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gRegor`
drinks more coffee
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tantek
and note that that takes *money* to do, so it's still a sufficiently high barrier to typical web spam
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tantek
if you get a well known brand trying to spam you, you can a) block them (black list), b) embarrass them by posting about it with a rel=nofollow link
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek, for that matter, the same is true of google though. Just because I link to google, does not mean i trust it as a vouch. google.com/+spam is under google's domain, but I am not about to trust anything from there
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tantek
such bad press is not worth it to them
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tantek
so danlyke, you're talking about different kinds of actors than those we're fighting against
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: ok I'll challenge you to find non-rel-nofollow spam links on google.com - go for it
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tantek
posit: they don't exist
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TysonBrooks
KevinMarks: what were question were you answering from me? I just seen I had mIRC still opened and had a notification from you saying: "they do at http://stream.withknown.com/"
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tantek
IRC logs are the current lowest barrier
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tantek
until we rel=nofollow any links from anyone not listed in /irc-people
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tantek
aaronpk ^^^ not sure where to put that request
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ben_thatmustbeme
my biggest concern with using any link i don't put rel=nofollow on is puts the burden on me to worry about who i link, rather than the other way around which was what this was for. maybe i am being overly cautious, but I see this as a shortcut through any extra spam filtering, so I want to make sure what is getting through is as clean as possible
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cuibonobo
ben_thatmustbeme++
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme has 19 karma
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: no burden, do it lazily.
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aaronpk_
tantek: interesting
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tantek
if you ever get a spam link via a vouch, go see who vouched for it, and then give them a hard time, up to and including replacing all your links to them with rel=nofollow
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aaronpk_
wouldn't it make more sense from a publisher perspective to have to explicitly mark up the links that *should* be used for vouching instead? (e.g. add markup to the links from people who *are* on irc-people)
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek, to clearify, do you mean i have to have linked to the exact page, or linked to somewhere on the site?
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aaronpk_
(caveat: I haven't been following the vouch logic completely)
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tantek
what's much more likely is that it's an old blog post, with a link to an expired/squatted domain, and your friend you linked to will be happy to be made aware of the link to fix!
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danlyke
tantek, I'm not sure what bad actors we're going to be fighting, I'm just saying that blog authors are going to have to be selective about which external sites they allow to be vouch sites.
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tantek
danlyke - those that spam pingback currently
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tantek
simple
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gRegor`
Yeah, I was just thinking we could rel=nofollow all links from IRC logs, then just use /irc-people
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tantek
not advertisers that *buy* advertising. sheesh
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cuibonobo
aaronpk_: i would definitely prefer an explicit whitelist to being watchful of what does / doesn't have rel-nofollow
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tantek
cuibonobo: you can do an explicit whitelist *now*, without vouch, and you likely should if you like the whitelist approach
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tantek
aaronpk - re: "explicitly mark up the links that *should* be used for vouching " nope nope nope - too much burden.
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cuibonobo
tantek: indeed! i was only looking through the vouch extension to see if it somehow put less burden on the receiver's end, but sadly that isn't the case.
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tantek
don't worry about those you link to, just assume that when you link, you're linking to someone you consider reasonably legit.
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danlyke
tantek, the amount of malware attempts delivered through ads in sites I read (and potentially link to) is high, so I assume there'll be lots of overlap. But most of those ads are currently served via Ajax inclusion, not in the raw HTML.
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tantek
like I said, lazy block
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tantek
cuibonobo: no vouch can't put less burden, it's a protocol *extension* :)
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tantek
danlyke - a-ha! we are saved by non-curlable AJAX including technique usage :)
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek, you mean that the vouch would only have to be in the same domain as something you linked to correct? not the exact page?
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tantek
correct
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ben_thatmustbeme
its creates too much concern for any site that is a silo though
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: simple then, rel=nofollow all links to silos ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme
actually, i have a link to facebook that has rel=me
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tantek
which isn't such a bad idea
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tantek
btw - all silos use rel=nofollow now on *all* links from people
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tantek
so silos can't be used as vouch links anyway
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tantek
(sad trombone)
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ben_thatmustbeme
not so, on their user account pages
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danlyke
yeah, I currently drop Pingback/Trackback/Referers on the floor, so I'm less worried about spam than DDOS amplification.
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ben_thatmustbeme
and only current silos
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: yes so, on their user account pages
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tantek
e.g. Twitter
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danlyke
Which is really up to the developer of each blog system to be smart about which external sites they let be valid vouch sites.
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: I challenge you to find a counter example
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aaronpk_
rel="me nofollow"
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ben_thatmustbeme
okay, a spammer sets up a user account, twitter.com/spammer with rel=me back to their site. they send me webmention with vouch = twitter.com/spammer, I link to twitter.com/dissolve33 with rel=me
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ben_thatmustbeme
damn you aaronpk!
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cuibonobo
ello doesn't have any rel-nofollow on its link to gRegorLove.com
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ben_thatmustbeme
if i forget once though in a post, i am now open to any spam from twitter
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gRegor`
Nor a rel=me. Fail, ello.
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ben_thatmustbeme
thank you cuibonobo, perfect example. if i link to ello right now without a rel=nofollow, (i forgot) now anyone with an ello account can spam me
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tantek
a-ha Ello is new at this, they'll learn. until then, link to them with rel=nofollow. done.
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ben_thatmustbeme
i think its better off as a list of sites that i trust. You can implement that as any site you link to
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gRegor`
If you get Ello spam, then you can add the nofollow that you forgot.
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: twitter has nofollow on links from twitter.com/spammer back to their site
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tantek
so that vails
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tantek
s/vails/fails
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: so that fails
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tantek
haha vails = vouch fails
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ben_thatmustbeme
what is vails
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "vails" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=vails
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gRegor`
Fail ello = Faillo
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aaronpk_
ben_thatmustbeme: did you just tantek tantek?
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gRegor`
What is lazy-block?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "lazy-block" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=lazy-block
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tantek
slowly steps away from the keyboard.
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gRegor`
tanteking++
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Loqi
tanteking has 1 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk_ basically, yes
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gRegor`
Surprised Ello doesn't support hashtags, too.
#
@nobantu
CountDown 2 LateTicket's 4 #IIW XIX Register http://www.internetidentityworkshop.com/ & join us 4 #VRM #UMA #indieweb #identity #IoT &OTHER conversations!
(twitter.com/_/status/517386269337612290)
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gRegor`
I don't give Ello very long to last. Maybe a year.
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danlyke
gRegor` Ello is *really* early stage, there's a lot of basic functionality they haven't gotten to yet.
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gRegor`
Understood
#
@tomwiththeweath
RT @nobantu: CountDown 2 LateTicket's 4 #IIW XIX Register http://www.internetidentityworkshop.com/ & join us 4 #VRM #UMA #indieweb #identity #IoT &OTHER conv…
(twitter.com/_/status/517386734330724353)
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek. its also non-trivial for you to verify that you linked to a site, not without storing every link you ever made that doesn't have a rel=me
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danlyke
That's not meant to counter your prediction for their longevity at all :-)
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danlyke
ben_thatmustbeme It just requires a *cough* database :-D
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aaronpk_
you mean a text file?
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ben_thatmustbeme
i think thats fine as a way to pre-populate your list of acceptable sources, but I think thats personal preference
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ben_thatmustbeme
oh god, not that again
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ben_thatmustbeme
database, no database. CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG!
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aaronpk_
i think we are doing a pretty good job of that actually
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tantek
aaronpk - text file for explicit whitelist (user curated), /database-cache for tracking what/who you've linked to. presto, best of both.
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: "learn about the controversy" :)
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gRegor`
Yeah, the improvements to /database-antipattern recently have been great, IMO
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ben_thatmustbeme
indeed. they have
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tantek
s/learn/teach
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: ben_thatmustbeme: "teach about the controversy" :)
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tantek
actually: "teach the controversy" ;)
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aaronpk_
what's the parenthesized text for under "community split"?
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ben_thatmustbeme
that original page was quite opinionated, I like the inclusion of the community split section
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cuibonobo
you know. i'm still hung up about the rel-nofollow thing. i just checked time.com and they don't add rel-nofollow to their links
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ben_thatmustbeme
cuibonobo, links to what though?
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tantek
cuibonobo: any bad links from time.com?
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ben_thatmustbeme
i don't see spam links on time.com
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tantek
aaronpk - parenthesized text to indicate why it is earlier than it should be in pure sort order
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tantek
specifically, highlighting systems that multiple people have installed and are using on their primary sites
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tantek
s/systems/projects
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: specifically, highlighting projects that multiple people have installed and are using on their primary sites
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cweiske
bear, indiestats.com during login: Internal Server Error
#
cweiske
The server encountered an internal error and was unable to complete your request. Either the server is overloaded or there is an error in the application.
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bret
aaronpk_: what do you think about voicing irc-people?
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aaronpk_
I don't really know how tho
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cuibonobo
tantek: mostly links to twitter profiles for authors. i found an article with a link to the cdc. i don't think they add nofollow to anything though.
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tantek
bret - what's the use-case for voicing? :P
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aaronpk_
bret: could you write something up on /irc in a "voice" section maybe?
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek, i would be fine with you implementing any non-relnofollow links, but I think it would be best to prefer an XFN list of some sort. as I won't implment it for all links
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bret
:/ maybe have loqi /msg chanserv and set a flag?
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aaronpk_
the wiki would be a good place for use case too
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bret
tantek: differentiating people who are on irc-peopple and who are not?
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bret
tantek: motivation
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tantek
ah - visibly showing who's on irc-people
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aaronpk_
IIRC the use case was to incentivise people to add themselves to irc-people
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tantek
good one
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: you're confusing the two checks that a vouch receiver must perform
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tantek
B->C and C->A
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@shelholtz
Just wrapped up recording FIR on Tech #2 as @danyork's guest. Topic: The IndieWeb, Known, and Ello. Watch for it tomorrow on @firpodcast.
(twitter.com/_/status/517388339125948416)
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tantek
C->A is a simple load C, check for non-rel-nofollow link to A
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@seanbohan
RT @nobantu CountDown 2 LateTicket's 4 #IIW XIX Register http://www.internetidentityworkshop.com/ & join us 4 #VRM #UMA #indieweb #identity #IoT &OTHER...
(twitter.com/_/status/517388413230923777)
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bret
tantek: also moderation benefits too but that isn't terribly needed right now
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tantek
B->C is the up to you piece, including XFN list etc. whatever whitelistish type approach you prefer
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@Phil_Comtek
RT @seanbohan: RT @nobantu CountDown 2 LateTicket's 4 #IIW XIX Register http://www.internetidentityworkshop.com/ & join us 4 #VRM #UMA #indieweb #identity #I…
(twitter.com/_/status/517388508357738496)
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gRegor`
Not sure voice is much of a incentive to add yourself to irc-people
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tantek
BTW - ben_thatmustbeme only minor complaint about your /vouch write-up so far, you mixed up (swapped) A and B from my description in IRC which could be confusing
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek, exactly what i'm saying, but if someone grabs the wrong link because the only place i test for B->C is my XFN list, then they are SOL
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bret
gRegor`: for some people it might be, but otherwise its just for differentiating people
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tantek
gRegor`: semi-agreed. the logs are more incentive. but maybe for some?
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek, sorry, I was copying from /webmention
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tantek
and yeah, quickly looking at a list of user in an IRC client is faster than checking to see if someone is in /irc-people
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aaronpk_
if nothing else it'll make it so tantek and I aren't the only ones who look different here
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tantek
good point aaronpk
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gRegor`
Hehe
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ben_thatmustbeme
regrets handing over the keys to #indiechat :P
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cuibonobo
what is voice?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "voice" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=voice
#
gRegor`
Haha
#
cuibonobo
asking for a friend
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tantek
what is audio?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "audio" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=audio
#
gRegor`
What is asking for a friend?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "asking for a friend" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=asking+for+a+friend
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aaronpk_
shakes head
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ben_thatmustbeme
tanteking galore
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gRegor`
What i— jk
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cuibonobo
google says it allows you to talk when +m is on
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tantek
It looks like we don't have a page for "audio" yet, however *6* pages link to it! https://indiewebcamp.com/Special:WhatLinksHere/audio Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=audio
#
aaronpk_
tantek++
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Loqi
tantek has 87 karma
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cuibonobo
but i dunno what +m is for
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tantek
moderation?
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tantek
what is +m?
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Loqi
messaging refers to one user sending another user a message (memo, letter, etc.) http://indiewebcamp.com/m
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gRegor`
moderation, yeah
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cweiske
so you want to force people to add themselves to irc-people just to ask a question in this channel=
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gRegor`
No
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aaronpk_
we wouldn't prevent non-voiced people from being able to talk
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tantek
cweiske, only if we run into irc spam/deluge problem
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gRegor`
Without +m on, it would just display the IRC user list differently.
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cuibonobo
has +m mode ever been on in this channel?
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gRegor`
voiced users get a +v and are sorted higher in the list. non-voiced appear below them.
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tantek
which we haven't yet - only isolated incidents of nutters
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gRegor`
(depending on the IRC client, of course)
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aaronpk_
do people have to be registered with nickserv to be +v?
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gRegor`
No
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ben_thatmustbeme
i don't believe so
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tantek
aaonpk - I don't think so, I think any ops can grant +v
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tantek
thus perhaps we need to grant Loqi ops
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danlyke
tantek, "only isolated incidents of nutters": Oh, sorry, my bad, I'll dial it back :-)
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gRegor`
Try it, aaronpk: /mode username +v
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cuibonobo
i dunno. seems to me like you're getting back into that "creator", "blogger", "apprentice" nonsense
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tantek
danlyke - you're definitely not isolated ;)
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bret
maybe setting the flag with chanserv might require registration
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aaronpk_
is not connected through the aaronpk account right now
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bret
(for autovoice)
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bret
or just have Loqi set +v
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aaronpk_
yeah Loqi should be able to do it. gonna require some ugly hacking of Loqi though
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bret
Sorry Loqi
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gRegor`
Haha, danlyke ;)
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tantek
the problem with +v on someone not registered with nickserv is that it might not be the person that added themselves to /irc-people
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ben_thatmustbeme
other issue is, once anyone is voiced they could +v anyone else can't they, or does that depend on room settings
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bret
true, but thats a problem with IRC
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gRegor`
ben_thatmustbeme: I don't think so, or was not aware of that setting.
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tantek
no it's a problem of using +v to indicate that someone is who they say they are in /irc-people
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tantek
+v people cannot +v others
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tantek
only ops can
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aaronpk_
is there a way to tell if someone is registered with nickserv?
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gRegor`
"is logged in as X" shows in whois
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gRegor`
Probably a more direct way, too
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tantek
/msg Nickserv INFO aaronpk
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gRegor`
s/Probably/There is probably/
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Loqi
gRegor` meant to say: There is probably a more direct way, too
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aaronpk_
so I could only +v people if they are also registered with nickserv
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bret
thats is fair
#
@paulsq
Aral Balkan's "indieweb" social network runs on Mac OS X https://ind.ie/ #somuchforindependence
(twitter.com/_/status/517391097426083840)
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gRegor`
int status codes, easier to process. :)
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aaronpk_
also the response contains the nick and int, so I don't need a bunch of async code to handle it
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gRegor`
Oh good, more ind.ie / indieweb conflation. ^
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cuibonobo
oh good, another social network -___- ^
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gRegor`
Oh good, another caret ^
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gRegor`
:)
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tantek
caret > stick
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gRegor`
tantek++
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Loqi
tantek has 88 karma
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tantek
There is no indieweb social network. There is the whole web we use as a social network.
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KartikPrabhu
too much smiling... get back to work everyone :P
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aaronpk_
so basically when someone joins, Loqi would do an "ACC" on their nick to find if they are registered with nickserv. If so, would then check the irc-people list and if they are present, would +v them.
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gRegor`
Ah, KartikPrabhu is back to continue the beatings until morale improves. ;)
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gRegor`
What are you working on, KartikPrabhu?
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cuibonobo
i would be very interested in the technology used to provide private p2p sync. unless they've partnered with BitTorrent?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "you working on, KartikPrabhu" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=you+working+on%2C+KartikPrabhu
#
tantek
aaronpk - would it make sense to also only link / avatar people in the logs if their nick is registered? is there some way to capture in the logs "this person had +v when they spoke" ?
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KartikPrabhu
gRegor`: see Loqi response ;) ^^
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tantek
oh I got this
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gRegor`
Le sigh
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aaronpk_
oh man you guys
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aaronpk_
you know that in our work channel, Loqi asks people "What are you working on?" several times per day
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tantek
wait for it
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aaronpk_
it's funny to see people do that to each other here
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gRegor`
Haha
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tantek
What are you working on, KartikPrabhu?
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tantek
what are you working on, gRegor`?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "you working on, gRegor`" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=you+working+on%2C+gRegor%60
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tantek
tag you're it
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gRegor`
Dangit.
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aaronpk_
this wiki is getting nuts
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gRegor`
I am working on transfering a WordPress site from wpengine.com
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gRegor`
What are you working on, Loqi?
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tantek
oh you're going to make me do it huh?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "you working on, Loqi" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=you+working+on%2C+Loqi
#
gRegor`
You are the wiki-master
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gRegor`
;)
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aaronpk_
you know I can make a Loqi regex for this
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ben_thatmustbeme
i'm still mad at loqi
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gRegor`
Loqi could pick out a line from our user page "working on" maybe? Heh
#
ben_thatmustbeme
what is ben_thatmustbeme
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "ben_thatmustbeme" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=ben_thatmustbeme
#
aaronpk_
/what are you working on,? (.+)\?/ -> look up nick in irc-people and link to #Itching on their user page
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tantek
aaronpk - not quite, because people have different sections
#
tantek
Itching, Working On, Ideas, Interests
#
tantek
what are you working on, aaronpk?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "you working on, aaronpk" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=you+working+on%2C+aaronpk
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aaronpk_
well now that you've enumerated them, could just check for which one is present :)
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tantek
gRegor`: I defer to tommorris
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gRegor`
who is ben\_thatmustbeme?
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tantek
aaronpk - I expect more variants, since there have been 4 variants for 5 people
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gRegor`
Loqi quits
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ben_thatmustbeme
what is is ben\_thatmustbeme
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for " is ben\_thatmustbeme" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=+is+ben%5C_thatmustbeme
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danlyke
who is on first?
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ben_thatmustbeme
we should probably move all that nonsense in to #indiechat
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Loqi
I agree
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ben_thatmustbeme
problem with ?beta page, its pushing non-topic stuff back here
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tantek
Loqi++
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Loqi
Loqi has 302 karma
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@thierrymarianne
Back to #ExpoWave... discussing #LinkedData and #IndieWeb (among many human/robots topics) for the future with @xtof_fr @kirilind
(twitter.com/_/status/517395747810320384)
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tantek
aaronpk, re: more regexes for Loqi - yes please! per http://indiewebcamp.com/Loqi#Ideas
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gregorlove.com
edited /ind.ie (+17) "Indienet section (blank)"
(view diff)
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gregorlove.com
edited /ind.ie (+161) "/* Indienet */ uh, I dunno. it's a start?"
(view diff)
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@gregoire
I d̶o̶n̶'̶t̶ know why you say g̶o̶o̶d̶b̶y̶e̶ Ello I say goodbye http://indiewebcamp.com/Ello #IndieWeb #silo
(twitter.com/_/status/517401062253555712)
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@NewsDataScience
RT @gregoire: I d̶o̶n̶'̶t̶ know why you say g̶o̶o̶d̶b̶y̶e̶ Ello I say goodbye http://indiewebcamp.com/Ello #IndieWeb #silo
(twitter.com/_/status/517401846915543040)
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@beandog76
Woah. Database-antipatterns. Mind blown .... that doesn't happen much. http://indiewebcamp.com/database-antipattern
(twitter.com/_/status/517402561024753664)
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tantek
good to still be blowing minds I suppose.
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gRegor`
Hopefully in a "let me check this indieweb out more" way
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@4c4d
http://indiewebcamp.com/database-antipattern good to read on why your personal projects should avoid databases
(twitter.com/_/status/517404839270043648)
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@4c4d
http://indiewebcamp.com/database-antipattern good to read on why your personal projects (with caveats) might want to avoid databases
(twitter.com/_/status/517404982237089792)
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tantek
gRegor`: a lot of indieweb is challenging a lot of assumptions. so this is good.
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sparverius
tbqh i disagree with some of those points, but i can think of a few things ive done where i probably shouldnt have used a database
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tantek
I for one don't mind people thinking differently, as long as they are thinking for themselves.
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tantek
independent dissent is to be encouraged.
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aaronpk_
especially dissent with citations :D
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gRegor`
sparverius: Yeah, there's a fair range of opinions on databases in the community. I'm fairly pro, but definitely see some good points on /database-antipattern
KevinMarks_ and snarfed joined the channel
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gRegor`
I balked at the page early on, but that was before I fully understood this isn't intended as a /monoculture
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tantek
the page has certainly been improved by all the questioning and criticism
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jonnybarnes
right, so I now have a *very* basic contacts page at https://jonnybarnes.uk/contacts
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jonnybarnes
lets see if I can use it to implement a nickname's cache (indiewebcamp.com/nicknames-cache)
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aaronpk_
oh nice!
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jonnybarnes
how the hell did tantek get the twitter name "t"?
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aaronpk_
was one of the first people to join twitter?
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tantek
early adopter and breaking with convention (of not using single letters for usernames)
#
tantek
other early adopters tried it, didn't like it, switched to "traditional" user names
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tantek
it wasn't til at least (maybe?) a year later that people thought it was "cool" to have a shorter name. for me it was pure utility - initially you could tweet longer if your username was shorter. tweet length used to be 156 - length-of-username.
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gRegor`
Does anyone manually cross-post comments into disqus or other comment silos?
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gRegor`
I'm about to for the first time.
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aaronpk_
I have once or twice I think
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tantek
gRegor`: I did once to gigaom
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KartikPrabhu
gRegor`: I did once to a wordpress type thingie
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tantek
manually POSSE'd even
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aaronpk_
hey come back
#
tantek
and ended up filing a bunch of Bridgy feature requests :)
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gRegor`
Hehe
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tantek
gRegor`: mine, including POSSE threading on Twitter too! http://tantek.com/2014/255/t2/well-deserved-talented-known-minor-correction
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KartikPrabhu
also manually backfed reply to comment :P
aaronpk joined the channel
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jonnybarnes
theres nothing on the micropub page about updating contacts
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gRegor`
KartikPrabhu: manually backfeeding, that's hardcore :)
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tantek
jonnybarnes: is there anything about updating at all on the micropub page?
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KartikPrabhu
thanks :P
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jonnybarnes
what would that be? h=contact?
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gRegor`
From the guy who said he doesn't check if his comment has made it past moderation. ;)
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jonnybarnes
tantek: yeah, load of stuff
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tantek
jonnybarnes: you can create h-card pages :)
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tantek
instead of h-entry
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tantek
hmm - is micropub a replacement for WebDAV too?
#
tantek
and if not, what is it missing?
#
tantek
similarly, is using micropub with h-event a replacement for CalDAV?
#
tantek
and, is using micropub with h-card a replacement for CardDAV?
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gRegor`
What is WebDAV?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "WebDAV" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=WebDAV
#
gRegor`
What is CalDAV?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "CalDAV" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=CalDAV
#
tantek
does anyone here use WebDAV?
#
tantek
does anyone here use CalDAV?
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gRegor`
"Sorry, WebDAV, I can't let you do that."
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aaronpk_
heh /p3k already links to /WebDAV
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tantek
aaronpk, the "*#* of links to" would be quite handy for the Loqi responses!
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Loqi
grins profusely
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aaronpk_
yeah totally
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jonnybarnes
i use caldav via owncloud
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aaronpk_
i've been thinking about supporting caldav so that I can create events on my site using the mac calendar app and my phone
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tantek
tags jonnybarnes with http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=CalDAV and creating an "IndieWeb Examples" section
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tantek
what is owncloud?
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bret.io
edited /IRC (+615) "/* Join the discussion: #indiewebcamp chat */ Added section about how to get voice"
(view diff)
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tantek
well at least there's that
caseorganic joined the channel
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bret
gtg to lunch. feel free to edit that
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jonnybarnes.uk
edited /ownCloud (+74) "add myself as an example"
(view diff)
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aaronparecki.com
created /WebDAV (+226) "stub with"
(view diff)
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cweiske
the owncloud desktop client uses webdav for file sync
jet__ joined the channel
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jonnybarnes.uk
created /CalDAV (+231) "Basic intro"
(view diff)
caseorganic joined the channel
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aaronpk_
thinking about PESOS'ing my amazon purchase history
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jonnybarnes
and making it public on your own site, or why?
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aaronpk_
probably not everything public
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aaronpk_
but would import them first as private posts, then may make some of them public
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aaronpk_
I now know how much I have spent at Amazon in the past 6 years
caseorga_, caseorganic, rknLA, bret and ShaneHudson joined the channel
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@dougmckown
Very excited for Heartbeat ("...a social network client that is private by default...") https://ind.ie/ #indieweb #heartbeat
(twitter.com/_/status/517425586193461248)
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KartikPrabhu
anyone know how this "Hearbeat" works?
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aaronpk_
as far as I can tell the only info about it right now is thew few words on ind.ie
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danlyke
I think it works through pure wishful thinking and spare web design.
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KartikPrabhu
in particular, where will my public posts appear? URL, domain?
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KartikPrabhu
would be good to know before "signing up"
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kylewm
most of Aral’s conversations about it on Twitter are debating GPL
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aaronpk_
oh, didn't even think to check there
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kylewm
only technical information I could find was it’s Go + Javascript
#
kylewm
oh and people accusing him that his anti-Ello article seems pretty calculated timing-wise
#
KartikPrabhu
ha why is that an accusation :P
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KartikPrabhu
smart timing
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kylewm
disingenuous I guess?
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KartikPrabhu
not really. he has criticised ello for exactly what he thinks is wrong with them, and he is providing an alternative to correct those wrongs
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cuibonobo
private synchronization over P2P sounds like bittorrent.
#
KartikPrabhu
i'm more interested in how the experience is rather than technical details. like if I post privately where is the post stored. If I post publically is it viewable on a URL. If so whose URL? Or is all of this stuck inside Heartbeat, in which case so much for freedom
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aaronpk_
KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu has 67 karma
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kylewm
it’s pointless to even speculate, it’s just buzzword soup at this point
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@aral
So, to summarise, the Indienet is:✓ Independently-funded (no VC)✓ Distributed✓ Free as in freedom✓ Beautifulhttps://ind.ie
(twitter.com/_/status/517376028181012480)
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@dougmckown
@indie I'm a former software tester and #indieweb supporter and would love to help out out as a tester for Heartbeat.
(twitter.com/_/status/517428950923247617)
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KartikPrabhu
ha yeah so far lot of hype... will wait it out before criticising
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bret
hes got a point, lets try to focus more on http://indiewebcamp.com/friendly than to just call it a slio
#
bret
if im reading between the lines, its aiming to be more like bittorrent sync/bleep than a federated web/server app
#
bret
which if it can be pulled off, sweet!
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KartikPrabhu
bret: maybe. but then how is a public post going to look?
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aaronpk_
hadn't heard about that yet!
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bret
KartikPrabhu: who knows?
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KartikPrabhu
bret: yup exactly. if they are claiming free as in freedom, this is the first thing I'd want to know
#
bret
aaronpk_: bittorrent has done a number of weird DHT chat/comment experiements
#
bret
most of them sucked
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KartikPrabhu
anyway i'll still wait for more to come out
#
bret
im totally behind his vision, the problem is that its never been done, and its going to be a) super duper hard to and cost a ton of money and work to get anything remotely close to what is being called for in a short ammount of time and b) no proof of prior related work so I am afraid its all talk
#
bret
who knows though, it only takes a c/win32 guru to throw together some cutstom libraries to make a uTorrent
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: yeah not connecting for me either
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kylewm.com
edited /friendly (+127) "/* Organisations who are Indieweb Friendly */ note that it appears to be down/dead"
(view diff)
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kylewm
that’s what happens when you befriend the indieweb, kids
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cuibonobo
re heartbeat: i dunno. the maidsafe guys have been working on data decentralization for years and years to ensure that even if your computer is off, your public stuff will remain public somehow. color me skeptical
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aaronpk_
purely p2p just isn't a priority for me. I'm totally ok with a "server" running somewhere
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KartikPrabhu
cuibonobo: ae there any examples of a working system like that?
#
cuibonobo
KartikPrabhu: they're in the middle of wrapping up their first test network. test net 2 is scheduled for this week, and i think 'the real thing' will probably deploy at the end of the year
#
GWG
I've been thinking about something again
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KartikPrabhu
cuibonobo: hmm interesting. will keep an eye out
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aaronpk_
GWG: sounds dangerous
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GWG
aaronpk_: While we haven't met in person, I think you have come to know me well enough to think that.
#
aaronpk_
it usually ends well
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bret
aaronpk_: is pin13 up to spec?
#
bret
like up to date
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aaronpk_
with the mf2 parser?
#
bret
yeah
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bret
is there a field that I can post in just html?
#
bret
rather than point at a url
#
GWG
I know this keeps coming up, but if I don't hang around on silos, how do I know what to reply to on my own site if I want to engage with less independent people? Except I don't want to hang around on silos really
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aaronpk_
no but I should probably add that
#
aaronpk_
i've got some indieweb gardening to do apparently
#
KartikPrabhu
bret: also https://kartikprabhu.com/connection/mfparser if you want to test with mf2py with HTML input
#
bret
yay!
#
bret
aaronpk++
#
Loqi
aaronpk has 569 karma
#
bret
KartikPrabhu++
#
Loqi
KartikPrabhu has 68 karma
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cuibonobo
GWG: i feel you. i'm doing a combination of RSS and email notifications from silos.
#
aaronpk_
GWG: not sure what you mean? do you mean how do you find content from non-indieweb sites without actually having an account on a bunch of silos?
#
GWG
aaronpk_: Without actually going there
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KartikPrabhu
GWG: you need a reader
#
GWG
KartikPrabhu: A silo reader? I know about feed reading..
#
KartikPrabhu
hey if you can backfeed from silos you can read from them too :P
#
KartikPrabhu
no one has made one yet though
#
kylewm
since he’s not here, obligatory plug for https://facebook-activitystreams.appspot.com/
#
KartikPrabhu
Twitter has the API to do this
#
KartikPrabhu
kylewm:++ yeah that
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm++ I mean
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Loqi
kylewm has 60 karma
moizsyed joined the channel
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jonnybarnes
why is aaronpk not op?
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GWG
Isn't there something int he Twitter T&C about displaying it differently than they do?
#
jonnybarnes
and why is their both aaronpk and aaronpk_
#
aaronpk_
it's complicated
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GWG
One for each of his personalities?
#
jonnybarnes
GWG: theres rules about displaying tweets, but they only apply if they were retrieved via the API
#
reedstrm
more complicated than the standard signed in fro,m more than one device?
#
KartikPrabhu
GWG: I doubt they'll come after you for using your own styles in your personal reade
jet__ joined the channel
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jonnybarnes
the rules definitely don't apply if you are locally hosting the tweet
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aaronpk_
jonnybarnes: citation?
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bret
rules are for breaking
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aaronpk_
as long as you know them first
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GWG
Why do I keep trying to think of solutions to problems I'm not prepared to solve?
#
aaronpk_
that's why we have #itching
#
cuibonobo
that reminds me. i want to make a parser for the IRC logs, but i'm getting an SSL error
#
aaronpk_
what really?
#
cuibonobo
"requests.exceptions.SSLError: hostname 'indiewebcamp.com' doesn't match either of 'mail.indieweb.org', 'indieweb.org'"
#
GWG
aaronpk_: Is that a freenode chat room?
#
aaronpk_
oh that sounds like your HTTP client doesn't support SNI
#
aaronpk_
GWG: no, the section on your user page
#
aaronpk_
cuibonobo: i'm guessing you're using python?
#
kylewm
ya, that’s python fo sure
#
cuibonobo
aaronpk_: yes! thanks for pointing me in the right direction. seems like i need to install some stuff to get the requests module to work
#
jonnybarnes
aaronpk_ searching
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aaronpk_
weird. I don't know why python doesn't work for that by default
#
aaronpk_
all the other languages/environments seem to support it now
#
cuibonobo
aaronpk_: i'm still on python 2.7. this is fixed in python 3.x seems like
#
aaronpk_
ah hm ok
#
aaronpk_
is super unfamiliar with python things
#
kylewm
I couldn’t get https://t37.net/ in python either (althoguh I think that is a separate issue)
#
bret
pyyyytttthoooonnnnn
#
GWG
Maybe I should just limit the scope
#
GWG
Maybe I should figure out how to keep track of all of you guys and move on from there
#
jonnybarnes
aaronpk_: here's adactio talking about it: https://adactio.com/journal/5698/
#
aaronpk_
oh yeah hmm
#
jonnybarnes
he mentions one of the guys at twitter saying it only applies to API-retreived tweets
#
KartikPrabhu
cuibonobo: according to bear the new requests update fixed the SNI issues
#
GWG
aaronpk_: Why does indieauth not work with SSL/SNI though?
#
aaronpk_
what do you mean?
#
aaronpk_
it works just fine I thought
#
cuibonobo
KartikPrabhu: i just installed 2.4.1 but the problem persists.
#
GWG
aaronpk_: It doesn't since I switched
#
aaronpk_
hmm, my site uses SNI and it works fine
#
GWG
It says there was an SSL error
#
aaronpk_
might be a different error then
#
GWG
aaronpk_: Who can I contact to ask?
#
aaronpk_
I can look at the raw logs if you try it again
#
aaronpk_
oh yeah I see "SSL ERROR: hostname does not match the server certificate"
#
aaronpk_
that's very odd
#
kylewm
is it the wildcard cert?
#
aaronpk_
oh cool thanks!!
#
aaronpk_
guess I have to do that now ;)
#
bret
whenever :)
#
aaronpk_
GWG: I just restarted the site and now it works for you
#
aaronpk_
kinda confused about that
#
aaronpk_
but at least it's working
#
GWG
aaronpk_: Thank you.
#
aaronpk_
I'm wondering if it was ruby caching some stuff internally
#
aaronpk_
what did you say you changed recently?
#
GWG
aaronpk_: I went from no SSL to SSL a while back, then from SSL to all SSL
#
aaronpk_
did you change the certificate at any point?
#
GWG
aaronpk_: Yes.
#
GWG
Do you cache them?
#
aaronpk_
not intentionally
#
aaronpk_
but I wonder if internally an http library is caching
#
GWG
aaronpk_: Either way, that means I can edit the wiki without getting my cell phone OTP generator out. Thank you
#
GWG
Can someone present at IWC Cambridge without being there?