#indiewebcamp 2014-10-10

2014-10-10 UTC
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KartikPrabhu_
doesn't get the "how does webmention discovery work" argument
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kylewm
I don't think gRegor` or I did either :/
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KartikPrabhu_
The little form under my article has been used write a few times. By adactio no less
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KartikPrabhu_
finally got yaaic working!
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gRegor`
What's yaaic?
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kylewm
android irc client
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gRegor`
Ah, cool
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kylewm
thank you for contractioning
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gRegor`
I think Dan's concern was basically telling people "copy the link to my note, go to your site, paste it as the in-reply-to, write your note, publish"
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gRegor`
But I think that's further along in the /generations
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KartikPrabhu_
That is a known problem for ui
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gRegor`
Yep
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KartikPrabhu_
in fact the silo situation is worse. It says "make an account, full your details, sacrifice your first born, upload picture, invite friends, then comment"
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gRegor`
Heh
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gRegor`
Except most have already done those steps :)
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KartikPrabhu_
yes so it is a bad comparison
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gRegor`
He's already not very keen on webmention due to spam/DDOS potential, so I think he wants a really solid UI before he implements it. Different priorities, I guess.
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KartikPrabhu_
comparing a developing system to a developed and adopted one
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gRegor`
Hah, overlooked "contractioning"
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gRegor`
resists urge to 'what is' that
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kylewm
Loqi is so noisy with those
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gRegor`
is not going into labor
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@AnastasiaAshman
Talking re @withknown at #MakerTeacher meet up at @RocketSpace -- so perfect for HS students to learn #indieweb habit + build #bodyofwork
(twitter.com/_/status/520385500574543872)
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@pwcc
Inspired by @ftrain, tempted to use http://t.co/Di0W0Z2QBi~ when I go indieweb - more fun than /notes
(twitter.com/_/status/520423196697178113)
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ben_thatmust
hmm, perhaps its time to move off hostt.net, again i cannot connect to brid.gy due to DNS issues, and their 'create new ticket' form returns a 404 error D:
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@pwcc
@thelonecuber see http://indiewebcamp.com/ - it's about owning content and distributing to silos like fb & twitter from your site
(twitter.com/_/status/520433998246322176)
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@kevinmarks
@mat @panzer @tcarmody drop by http://indiewebcamp.com/irc sometime if you need some help setting up a website
(twitter.com/_/status/520454398980280320)
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KevinMarks__
What is Fargo?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Fargo" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Fargo
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jgee
KevinMarks__: pretty much everything that Dave Winer has been working on lately is somewhat aligned with Indieweb ideas
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brient.net
edited /User:Brient.net (+361) "/* Brient Hess */"
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brient.net
edited /User:Brient.net (+4) "/* Brient Hess */"
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brient.net
edited /User:Brient.net (-2) "/* Brient Hess */"
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brient.net
edited /User:Brient.net (-35) "/* Brient Hess */"
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reedstrm
KevinMarks (catching up on the backscroll) - raising smart kids is so fun! (and challenging re: what andrew knows)
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petermolnar
Loqi, is there nothing going on? You're not collecting any tweets.
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Loqi
who, me?
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reedstrm
Meatspace traffic (in HOU, TX) was light this morning, too. Maybe everyone has Fridayitis
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petermolnar
yeah, traffic was light in Cambridge, UK, as well in the morning
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ben_thatmustbeme
I've had Fridayitis for the past 2 weeks
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@samposampo
#indieweb is #normcore for geeks
(twitter.com/_/status/520572585013415936)
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@benwerd
@samposampo No, #indieweb is much more like independent media for geeks. It's anything but #normcore: celebrates individuality.
(twitter.com/_/status/520573841022525440)
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@samposampo
@benwerd #normcore is also getting back to basics, as #indieweb & #tilddeclub are also doing. Check out the webring! http://tilde.club/~notjosh/
(twitter.com/_/status/520578326281592832)
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s.ly
edited /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (+268) "/* Participants */"
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reedstrm
petermolnar: you must be hitting pub-time soon, though.
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reedstrm
Or at least tea-time :-)
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tantek.com
edited /notification (+684) "/* Beware of */ Anxiety And Fear"
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reedstrm
re: irclogs
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tantek.com
created /text (+299) "stub with dfn, see also"
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tantek.com
edited /text (-4) "unlink"
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@benwerd
"You can't have perspective and be unkind. It's impossible. So is all information worth saving? Yes." @chrisdancy #cyborgcamp #indiewebcamp
(twitter.com/_/status/520595634298974208)
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reedstrm
Love them, except for the join messages. Just installed Stylish in FireFox to add user custom CSS to suppress them. Such a pleasure to work with well marked up HTML. Anyone have a better ways to do this?
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aaronpk_
someone suggested I add a checkbox to hide them
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aaronpk_
saved in a client-side cookie
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reedstrm
well, that's even better :-)
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reedstrm
(I run pidgin for chat, suppressing joins for large groups like this)
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tantek
here's an example IRC log with [x] Hide Join/Parts/Quits : http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/microformats/20141009
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tantek
though I'd add hiding "ChanServ sets mode:" to that too
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tantek
OTOH it would be useful to see "Parts" when showing "Joins"
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www.flutterby.net user:danlyke
edited /webmention (+294) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Added Flutterby.com webmention support"
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gRegor`
danlyke++ for webmention support
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Loqi
danlyke has 7 karma
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gRegor`
Want a test webmention, danlyke?
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danlyke
Try it! Let's see how many bugs I've got in there...
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gRegor`
:)
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danlyke
http://www.flutterby.com/archives/comments/1.html has become my "hang test comments off it" entry...
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danlyke
But wherever.
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danlyke
(Do tell me, though, because it isn't currently triggering a front-page reload, that'd only show up after something else did)
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gRegor`
I got an HTTP 200 response, but the body was Didn't find trackback
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kylewm
danlyke: same here, DEBUG - Sent webmention successfully to http://www.flutterby.com/archives/comments/1.html. Sender response: Didn't find trackback
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danlyke
Of course this is also when I chose to run an "apt-get upgrade" on that server :-) Will both add more debug info, and have an answer, shortly...
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gRegor`
Ok. Let me know if you want me to re-send
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danlyke
And obviously something else is going on in my network, because my home server just went all wonky and my colo server is acting like it's got way more load than it should have.
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danlyke
I'll ask for a re-send shortly...
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gRegor`
Oops, I had the DDOS box checked.
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gRegor`
:)
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ben_thatmustbeme
hmm, need an event i can test rsvp to
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ben_thatmustbeme
ohh, not pretty
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danlyke
Okay, I was testing with gRegor`'s URL, so kylewm, you wanna hit me again?
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danlyke
And then I can figure out grabbing full entry text...
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gRegor`
ben_thatmustbeme: I think you just want the p-rsvp in the <data>, not at the same level as the e-content.
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gRegor`
Here's a successful RSVP I made: http://gregorlove.com/notes/2014/06/26/3/
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ben_thatmustbeme
i had it there too... i started all my templates off of sempress, and there is definitely some confusion still in there. I need to fully rework them.
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gRegor`
Right, I'm saying it should only be in the <data>, not both.
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gRegor`
The "rsvp" key in the parsed data should only be "yes" or "no", case-sensitive too
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ben_thatmustbeme
thats what i was guessing, but it didn't seem documented on /rsvp
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ben_thatmustbeme
actually further down aaronpk looks to offer yes/no/maybe/other
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gRegor`
looks like "tracking" and "invited" are other options.
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tantek.com
edited /why (+107) "/* See also */ strongly related Fictive Kin's purpose essay"
(view diff)
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@davidmead
Is that @t, without his glasses @benwerd? :-) #indieweb #cyborgcamp
(twitter.com/_/status/520624478141693952)
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kylewm
danlyke: that seemed to work! funny that you respond with SQL
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danlyke
kylewm I tend to spew way too much debug-useful info in experimental stuff...
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danlyke
(and by "debug-useful" I mean "hopefully not exploit-useful but my fingers are crossed on that front")
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tantek
somewhat indieweb related (ran out of room to hashtag) https://twitter.com/t/status/520628777731489792
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@t
post-Facebook #CyborgCamp session I predicted all here: 10y: have+use their "site">"cell" 20y: no "cell" like no pager (ttk.me t4YZ2)
(twitter.com/_/status/520628777731489792)
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shaners
Morning, #indieweb sailors!
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tantek
Twitter's notifications settings page is up to *22* checkboxes to uncheck for sending you *email* https://twitter.com/settings/notifications
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tantek
notifications, which, their actual *"Notifications"* web UI https://twitter.com/i/notifications shows only a small subset of.
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aaronpk_
no wonder I keep getting emails from them
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danlyke
Or the one big button at the top right.
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tantek
which, by using various shades of grey, and looking different than all the checkboxes, is easily missed / ignored, likely by design
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danlyke
huh. I thought it was obvious, *except* that I run my web browser small and it was scrolled off the right side.
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reedstrm
well, give them props for allowing fine grained control, then. Even if the big button was a little unclear
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reedstrm
Actually, based on the UX, I'd expect that button to be an overrride switch, but not mess w/ the settings otherwise.
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tantek
danlyke, a feature they don't want you to use scrolled off the right side, imagine my surprise.
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reedstrm
So you can tune what you want to receive, then disable it for, say, vacation.
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reedstrm
And reenable it w/o having to retune.
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danlyke
tantek, yeah, but at the size I run my browser, very few sites are usable without horizontal scrolling. Really mostly just my own.
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reedstrm
danlyke: 800?
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reedstrm
I remember designing for 800x600. Makes me nostalgic. :-)
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danlyke
So I've become unable to distinguish unresponsive design from antipatterns
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danlyke
reedstrm, a Gimp screen capture tells me it's about 700 px wide right now, probably usually between 640 and 700px.
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reedstrm
ah yes. (I resized that twitter settings window and the button neatly disappears right around 800.)
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@jeckman
This weekend is both IndieWebCamp Cambridge ( http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge ) AND BarCampBoston 9 ( http://www.barcampboston.org/ ). #cloning
(twitter.com/_/status/520642364747317249)
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tantek
Because password anti-pattern? or can't trust silos with private data? or … ? http://www.businessinsider.com/snapchat-hacked-the-snappening-2014-10?op=1
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tantek
can't decide which wiki page(s) to put this on - any suggestions?
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danlyke
Looks like "give credentials to third party, ever" anti-pattern (See also my "crying in my beer over not writing Blogger" whine)
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ben_thatmust
should add a poll type, that would be neat
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gRegor`
Catching up... Twitter is the worst about notifications. They add new ones and they're almost always opt-out by default.
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shaners
what is h-entry?
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Loqi
h-entry is the microformats2 vocabulary for marking up blog posts on web sites http://indiewebcamp.com/h-entry
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KartikPrabhu_
is missing out on all the indiweb hacking this weekend due to no laptop :-(
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shaners
where is the parsing algorithim for mf2? specifically what is the order of things to parse for u-* classes?
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shaners
kylewm: thank you. i was failing at searching the site. sheesh.
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kylewm
yeah the mf2 stuff is difficult to find on there sometimes
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KartikPrabhu_2
shaners building your own parser?
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shaners
Oh no. I already started one that @jlsuttles_ did most of the work on. https://github.com/g5/microformats2
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KartikPrabhu_
neat. more dev on ruby parser
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shaners
KartikPrabhu_ Are you a rubyist?
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KartikPrabhu_
kylewm maybe we should add the new audio and video parsing rules to mf2py...
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KartikPrabhu_
I'm a python ;-)
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reedstrm
not a pythonista?
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KartikPrabhu_
but more parsers means more adoption
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shaners
I was more asking as a publisher, not as a consumer of mf2.
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KartikPrabhu_
reedstrm yeah maybe that :-)
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reedstrm
Parse all the things! No that's backwards: All the things, parse this! Now that sounds rude. *sigh*
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reedstrm
apparently suffering from Fridayitis myself!
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shaners
My thinking is that on my video posts, the <vide> tag has a placeholder attribute. Feels to me like that is a place for a .u-photo. But the .u-* parsing rules don't say anything about looking in @placeholder for a URL.
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emmak
is there a u-video?
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KartikPrabhu_
emmak a new rule for audio was added recently. video is waiting use cases
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KartikPrabhu_
shaners the placeholder is for non JavaScript fallback?
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shaners
when i said @placeholder, i meant @poster.
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shaners
emmak: yes, there is u-video
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shaners
which, in my case, is on my `video > source` tag.
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shaners
but the placeholder image, eg the poster frame, is an image. so, u-photo feels right there.
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KartikPrabhu_
shakers the whole source and srcset things are not in the mf2 parsing rules yet. maybe document your use case which will prompt addition to rules
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emmak
shaners: oh, i think i misunderstood your original question
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KartikPrabhu_
shaners not shakers
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shaners
I think you're misunderstanding what i'm saying
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shaners
there is a <source> tag. i'm talking about that. not the @src attr.
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KartikPrabhu_
oh then adding uphoto on the source should work
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shaners
<video poster="foo.png" class=> <source src="foo.mp4 class="u-video /> </video>
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shaners
i mean:
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shaners
<video poster="foo.png" class="u-photo"> <source src="foo.mp4 class="u-video /> </video>
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shaners
make sense now?
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KartikPrabhu_
poo more misunderstanding. The poster attribute won't be parsed that way
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shaners
i understand.
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KartikPrabhu_
is that a standard attribute?
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shaners
i'm suggesting that it should be
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shaners
yes. it's a standard attr on <video>
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KartikPrabhu_
ok cool. then keep using it and document that as use case
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shaners
emmak: how's neon coming along?
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KartikPrabhu_
maybe a hvideo could be made to parse poster automatically
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emmak
shaners: i think its pretty close to being done. i'm interested in adding audio and video posts next
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shaners
What does "done" mean?
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emmak
at the point where it has all the features i need for my own use cases
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shaners
got it
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shaners
is neon meant to be a multi-user system? is that why your avatar is on every post?
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emmak
its not a multi user system, that has more to do with trying to make the display of posts orthogonal
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emmak
if you look at the feed display, or posts that have comments, it makes more sense
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emmak
it is a big confusing to have my picture all over the front page, but it was a design tradeoff
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shaners
URL of a post with comments handy?
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shaners
I see. That makes more sense.
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ben_thatmust
hmm, has anyone thought about a poll type of h-entry? or h-poll
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kylewm
getting real retro up in here
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shaners
emmak did you do a design iteration with your avatar in your sidebar in the About section? So it's once on every page (home/permalink/post with comments).
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emmak
shaners: i had it that way originally
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shaners
oh yeah?
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emmak
maybe i should change it back
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shaners
it's your site. do whatever you want! :D
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shaners
I think your permalinks look great. (the URL you just pasted especially)
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shaners
but i think your homepage is noisy
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emmak
i want a design that doesn't confuse visitors
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Loqi
gives emmak a design that doesn
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Loqi
yeah!
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ben_thatmust
Loqi is a designer now
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emmak
that is a good point, i'd like to avoid noise
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ben_thatmust
I'll take a pretty design loqi, since you are handing them out
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shaners
And maybe you can punch up the text size of your post itself, so it's a little more prominient than the comments/replies/favorites?
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emmak
that's a good idea
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KevinMarks
don't worry your site will always be better designed than mine
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shaners
i just inspected/edtied .e-content to font-size: 125%. Looks pretty grood.
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shaners
Altogether, i like your site design a lot. Real clean. Real focused.
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shaners
emmak++
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Loqi
emmak has 8 karma
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shaners
emmak: one last unsolicited suggestion for neon:
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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emmak
shaners: cool, thanks for all the feedback :)
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shaners
anytime! i have lots of opinions. :D
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shaners
how are people marking up their license?
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shaners
still just using <a rel="license"> ?
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gRegor`
What is license?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "license" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=license
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rascul
no license page? interesting
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gRegor`
I don't list a license on my site (yet), so don't know.
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shaners
historically, it's just been rel-license. i wasn't sure if anyone was using u-license or something.
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sparverius
what is the meaning of life, the universe, and everything?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "the meaning of life, the universe, and everything" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=the+meaning+of+life%2C+the+universe%2C+and+everything
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danlyke
so totally abstract q: If we're going to be including source pages on Webmentions, has anyone thought through license implications? I'm kinda assuming that we're cool as long as we're playing, but...
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rascul
interesting topic, that
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gRegor`
what is the answer to the ultimate question of life the universe and everything?
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Loqi
The Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, The Universe, and Everything is … 42 http://indiewebcamp.com/the_answer_to_the_ultimate_question_of_life_the_universe_and_everything
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danlyke
ie: on the one hand, a webmention can be thought of as assumed consent, on the other hand, the first time a site that's been webmentioned switches to paid advertising, and the original referencing site has a CC attribution non-commercial license on it...
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kylewm
danlyke: is it any different for facebook and ogp: and twitter and their metadata cards?
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danlyke
kylewm, probably not. And probably not really worth worrying about. Just a "huh, I'm spidering their site and republishing it, this feels weird" vibe.
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gRegor`
Interesting.
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gRegor`
On the plus side, if the target site supports webmention properly, the original note author should be able to remove it from the target site by returning 410 and sending a follow-up wm
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kylewm
Reply: 410 Cease and Desist
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gRegor`
Haha
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gRegor`
Hmm, how should webmentions respond to HTTP 418?
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danlyke
Hmmmm... gonna have to consider this. Need to distinguish between time-outs/network errors and mentions in my retrieval code...
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gRegor`
Yeah, I think that's why they went with 410 instead of just 404
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hawke.org sandro
edited /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List () "(-520) /* Participants */ regrets from Alex Noakes and Happy Enchill"
(view diff)
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hawke.org sandro
edited /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (+0) "/* Participants */ update count"
(view diff)
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carmen
so barcamp has nothing to do w/ drinking or lawyers?
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hober
carmen: indeed
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pdurbin
hmm. "regrets". I'm planning on comming tomorrow at least
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carmen
i'm going to checkout the nola jazz bands on sunday by passim . theyll be off by 530ish. guess iwc will be done by then
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carmen
i hate how u have to walk in behind passholders to get into stata
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carmen
can u like, print qr-code door tokens for confirmed participants tied to yoir x509+biometrics identity yet
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pdurbin
not sure I've been in Stata before. I certainly don't have a pass
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carmen
last time i was inside was 2007
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rhydd.org ~daf
edited /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (+194) "/* Participants */"
(view diff)
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danlyke
gRegor-phone parsed the h-entry, there's still some room for grossness and I need to expand the tags my HTML parser allows in user input text to modern standards, but I'm now including your reply text at http://www.flutterby.com/archives/comments/20399.html
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carmen
never been in MSFT's NERD either , despite for years living within 22LR projectile distance of Kendall Sqr in Chelsea, the land thats 1/5th the price of Cambridge
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pdurbin
:) I've been to NERD a couple times. I'm glad I checked that the event got moved to Stata. I was planning on the Berkman Center.
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /User:Ben.thatmustbe.me (+138) "permashortcitation support added, now doing Likes, RSVPs, and Bookmarks"
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /OpenBlog (-10) "now doing Likes, RSVPs, and Bookmarks"
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ben_thatmust
hehe, had a busy day :D
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danlyke
!tell kylewm semantic-wise, I'm trying to figure out how to determine which portion of your page to excerpt. Your h-entry is the whole body, I guess I'm looking for the e-content that's not inside the p-in-reply-to?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu_
excerpt would be p summary
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danlyke
KartikPrabhu: neither kylewm nor gRegor` provide p-summary in their pages.
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kylewm
it's a little tricky to do correctly without a proper mf2 parser
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Loqi
kylewm: danlyke left you a message 14 minutes ago: semantic-wise, I'm trying to figure out how to determine which portion of your page to excerpt. Your h-entry is the whole body, I guess I'm looking for the e-content that's not inside the p-in-reply-to?
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kylewm
you want the e-content that is a child of the h-entry but not a child of any other h-* class... if thatmakes sense
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gRegor`
Is there a Perl mf2 parser?
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danlyke
and KartikPrabhu suggests that I should be looking for the p-summary...
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gRegor`
Only if you're wanting to display an excerpt.
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gRegor`
Typically with notes we display the entire *-content
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kylewm
yeah, if i were smart i would grab the p-summary first and fall back to e-content
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kylewm
but i don't think i do
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gRegor`
I don't check for summaries yet
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gregorlove.com
edited /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (+0) "/* Participants */ signed up: 15"
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danlyke
Okay, I need to put two-way linking into my parse trees so I can tell if any of the parents of this node aren't of a type... Or put some more smarts in my node finder to allow negative searches for 'h-\w+'
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gRegor`
I have no idea the quality/upkeep of this, but http://buzzword.org.uk/swignition/ might be a good start at least for parsing mf2 with Perl, danlyke.
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gRegor`
5 years old, looks like. But if it's parsing microformats already, might be a good start for mf2.
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kylewm
just naively, I'd guess it'd be a lot easier to write a new mf2 parser than to "upgrade" a mf1 parser
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gRegor`
Yeah? I've not really dug into the parsing rules/differences
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kylewm
my understanding is that microformats had a lot of special cases and context-specific rules
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kylewm
the microformats wiki gives pretty decent pseudo code for writing a new mf2 parser...
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kylewm
or you could just shell out to php or python :)
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gRegor`
True true
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gRegor`
I was just wondering if pin13.net or others returned json output
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gRegor`
Er, I guess it is, just pretty-printed. Long day here...
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kylewm
webmention.io is Ruby and doesn't use the Ruby parser, hint hint
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gRegor`
I think it uses pin13, doesn't it?
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kylewm
it uses news.indiewebcamp.com/parse actually
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danlyke
it's relatively easy for me to parse an HTML block and find specific classes within that block. I think I just need to add some exclude capabilities.
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danlyke
But the problem I'm having with microformats is that the semantics seem to be way more complex than the application of them warrants.
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joskar
While on the subject of parsers: when parsing e-* properties, are there some guidelines for sanitizing the HTML? (preventing XSS etc)
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kylewm.com
created /XSS (+17) "Redirected page to [[xss]]"
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gRegor`
Part of the problem with just looking for class names is the different prefixes inform how to parse the value. Is that what you mean by overly complex semantics?
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danlyke
joskar: My CMS parses user input to parse to a fairly limited subset of HTML3, strips any attributes that look like they could be Javascripted.
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joskar
danlyke: Ok, so you just have a whitelist of tags and attributes and discard the rest?
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gRegor`
joskar: I don't display the html value of e-content, just the plaintext value.
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danlyke
gRegor` yeah. It'd be great if I could just do positive searches, but mixing negative and positive searches (ie: find h-entry, prune all other h-* classes, find the remaining *-content. When that's the main thing I want for a given Webmention.
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danlyke
joskar yes. Pretty much treat it like user input HTML generally, ie: You want to let the users do some HTML (bbcode/other proprietary markup must die!!!1!!elevenses!!) but you don't want 'em breaking the page or adding malicious code, so...
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joskar
Ok, thanks!
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joskar
goes back to coding
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danlyke
joskar I am tempted to go back to gRegor`'s scheme, but that leaves webmention users at a disadvantage vs native responses.
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gRegor`
Which scheme?
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danlyke
gRegor` just pulling the text and throwing away all the markup.
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danlyke
I've seen so much bit rot over the years that there's no way I'm gonna use a parser someone else is hosting. That's what I'm trying to get *away* from.
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gRegor`
Sure. It's easy to run locally, though.
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danlyke
I'm also one of those "robust formats *need* to have multiple parsers" people, although in this case I might just give up on that.
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kylewm
man I'd be up for helping to write a new parser if it were just about any other language
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kylewm
string parsing in C/C++ is not my favorite thing to do
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joskar
kylewm: Are you doing a parser in C as well? :)
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danlyke
kylewm right now this is Perl, but I have C++ analogues for most of the Perl.
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kylewm
joskar: nooo
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danlyke
ie: my Perl system uses lots of regex, so I just put a regex library in C++ and got a little smarter about my string handling.
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danlyke
I did start a lex based parser too, may continue that for the HTML parts, but the HTML parser is just a "parse the string subsets of the markdown parser and change the allowed tags" thing.
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danlyke
I thought "oh, microformats is all class based, it's easy for me to say "get a list of all tags of type X with class of Y from this tree" (ie: the ways you'd play with the DOM), but I haven't done "unless they're underneath a tag of type Z" yet.
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kylewm
the parsing algorithm is a recursive descent sort of thing... oh i'm at an h-class, grab all its properties, recursing on nested h-classes
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kylewm
tantek queries his mf2 data store with xpath, if i understand correctly
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kylewm
but obviously he knows what subset of mf2 markup he is using
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danlyke
yeah, this stuff should be easy (in fact, easier in the C++ version than the Perl version), I just need to grind through the spec to figure out the right things. And rewrite the Flutterby.com stuff in C++ (right now only the Flutterby.net stuff is)
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@timmmmyboy
The night before #indiewebcamp is the perfect time to buy your 8th server, right? Seems right.
(twitter.com/_/status/520723224997666816)
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