#indiewebcamp 2014-10-10

2014-10-10 UTC
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KartikPrabhu_ Yo!
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KartikPrabhu_ doesn't get the "how does webmention discovery work" argument
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kylewm I don't think gRegor` or I did either :/
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KartikPrabhu_ The little form under my article has been used write a few times. By adactio no less
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KartikPrabhu_ finally got yaaic working!
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gRegor` What's yaaic?
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kylewm android irc client
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gRegor` Ah, cool
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kylewm thank you for contractioning
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gRegor` I think Dan's concern was basically telling people "copy the link to my note, go to your site, paste it as the in-reply-to, write your note, publish"
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gRegor` But I think that's further along in the /generations
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KartikPrabhu_ That is a known problem for ui
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gRegor` Yep
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KartikPrabhu_ in fact the silo situation is worse. It says "make an account, full your details, sacrifice your first born, upload picture, invite friends, then comment"
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gRegor` Heh
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gRegor` Except most have already done those steps :)
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KartikPrabhu_ yes so it is a bad comparison
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gRegor` He's already not very keen on webmention due to spam/DDOS potential, so I think he wants a really solid UI before he implements it. Different priorities, I guess.
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KartikPrabhu_ comparing a developing system to a developed and adopted one
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gRegor` Hah, overlooked "contractioning"
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gRegor` resists urge to 'what is' that
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kylewm haha
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kylewm Loqi is so noisy with those
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gRegor` is not going into labor
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@AnastasiaAshman Talking re @withknown at #MakerTeacher meet up at @RocketSpace -- so perfect for HS students to learn #indieweb habit + build #bodyofwork (twitter.com/_/status/520385500574543872)
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/bookmarks/2014/10/09/1/indieweb linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-10-09/line/1412896320779 (webmention)
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@pwcc Inspired by @ftrain, tempted to use http://t.co/Di0W0Z2QBi~ when I go indieweb - more fun than /notes (twitter.com/_/status/520423196697178113)
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ben_thatmust hmm, perhaps its time to move off hostt.net, again i cannot connect to brid.gy due to DNS issues, and their 'create new ticket' form returns a 404 error D:
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@TheLoneCuber @pwcc what do you mean by "indieweb"? (twitter.com/_/status/520433395701002241)
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@pwcc @thelonecuber see http://indiewebcamp.com/ - it's about owning content and distributing to silos like fb & twitter from your site (twitter.com/_/status/520433998246322176)
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@kevinmarks @mat @panzer @tcarmody drop by http://indiewebcamp.com/irc sometime if you need some help setting up a website (twitter.com/_/status/520454398980280320)
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KevinMarks__ What is Fargo?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Fargo" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Fargo
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/520454398980280320/14439168 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/kevinmarks/520454398980280320/520455193390231552 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/kevinmarks/520454398980280320/520455534940393472 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc (webmention)
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jgee KevinMarks__: pretty much everything that Dave Winer has been working on lately is somewhat aligned with Indieweb ideas
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brient.net edited /User:Brient.net (+361) "/* Brient Hess */" (view diff)
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brient.net edited /User:Brient.net (+4) "/* Brient Hess */" (view diff)
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brient.net edited /User:Brient.net (-2) "/* Brient Hess */" (view diff)
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brient.net edited /User:Brient.net (-35) "/* Brient Hess */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks__ #indieweb 2002 http://funnystories.blogspot.com/2002/05/what-andrew-knows.html
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KevinMarks__ http://pastebin.com/5kgNjPAx
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/520454398980280320/5507572 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc (webmention)
thierrymarianne, KevinMarks_, petermolnar, j12t, EOGreer, loic_m, krendil, KevinMarks___, Pierre-O, glennjones, gr0k, pfefferle, musigny, JohnDuh, csarven, Pierre-O1, mlncn, stream7_, lukebrooker, tantek, mdik, vanderwal, mlncn-agaric, reedstrm, elima and paulfitz joined the channel
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reedstrm KevinMarks (catching up on the backscroll) - raising smart kids is so fun! (and challenging re: what andrew knows)
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petermolnar Loqi, is there nothing going on? You're not collecting any tweets.
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Loqi who, me?
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reedstrm Meatspace traffic (in HOU, TX) was light this morning, too. Maybe everyone has Fridayitis
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petermolnar yeah, traffic was light in Cambridge, UK, as well in the morning
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ben_thatmustbeme I've had Fridayitis for the past 2 weeks
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@samposampo #indieweb is #normcore for geeks (twitter.com/_/status/520572585013415936)
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@benwerd @samposampo No, #indieweb is much more like independent media for geeks. It's anything but #normcore: celebrates individuality. (twitter.com/_/status/520573841022525440)
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Loqi [mention] https://s.ly/2014/my-first-indiersvp linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (webmention)
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2014-10-22-homebrew-website-club (+10) "/* URLs */ Chi" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2014-10-22-homebrew-website-club (+13) "/* RSVP */ Chi" (view diff)
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@samposampo @benwerd #normcore is also getting back to basics, as #indieweb & #tilddeclub are also doing. Check out the webring! http://tilde.club/~notjosh/ (twitter.com/_/status/520578326281592832)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/rsvp/facebook/27301982/800805153295308/27301982 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-10-22-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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s.ly edited /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (+268) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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reedstrm petermolnar: you must be hitting pub-time soon, though.
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reedstrm Or at least tea-time :-)
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tantek.com edited /notification (+684) "/* Beware of */ Anxiety And Fear" (view diff)
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reedstrm re: irclogs
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tantek.com created /text (+299) "stub with dfn, see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /text (-4) "unlink" (view diff)
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@benwerd "You can't have perspective and be unkind. It's impossible. So is all information worth saving? Yes." @chrisdancy #cyborgcamp #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/520595634298974208)
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reedstrm Love them, except for the join messages. Just installed Stylish in FireFox to add user custom CSS to suppress them. Such a pleasure to work with well marked up HTML. Anyone have a better ways to do this?
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aaronpk_ someone suggested I add a checkbox to hide them
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aaronpk_ saved in a client-side cookie
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reedstrm well, that's even better :-)
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reedstrm (I run pidgin for chat, suppressing joins for large groups like this)
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tantek here's an example IRC log with [x] Hide Join/Parts/Quits : http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/microformats/20141009
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tantek though I'd add hiding "ChanServ sets mode:" to that too
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tantek OTOH it would be useful to see "Parts" when showing "Joins"
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www.flutterby.net user:danlyke edited /webmention (+294) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Added Flutterby.com webmention support" (view diff)
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gRegor` danlyke++ for webmention support
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Loqi danlyke has 7 karma
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gRegor` Want a test webmention, danlyke?
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danlyke Try it! Let's see how many bugs I've got in there...
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gRegor` :)
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danlyke http://www.flutterby.com/archives/comments/1.html has become my "hang test comments off it" entry...
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danlyke But wherever.
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danlyke (Do tell me, though, because it isn't currently triggering a front-page reload, that'd only show up after something else did)
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gRegor` Sent! http://gregorlove.com/notes/2014/10/10/1/
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gRegor` I got an HTTP 200 response, but the body was Didn't find trackback
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danlyke Huh.
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kylewm danlyke: same here, DEBUG - Sent webmention successfully to http://www.flutterby.com/archives/comments/1.html. Sender response: Didn't find trackback
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kylewm
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danlyke Of course this is also when I chose to run an "apt-get upgrade" on that server :-) Will both add more debug info, and have an answer, shortly...
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gRegor` Ok. Let me know if you want me to re-send
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danlyke And obviously something else is going on in my network, because my home server just went all wonky and my colo server is acting like it's got way more load than it should have.
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danlyke I'll ask for a re-send shortly...
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gRegor` Oops, I had the DDOS box checked.
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gRegor` :)
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, need an event i can test rsvp to
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aaronpk_ here are some! http://aaronparecki.com/events
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ben_thatmustbeme ohh, not pretty
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ben_thatmustbeme http://aaronparecki.com/events/2014/09/13/1/indieweb-xoxo-breakfast
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danlyke Okay, I was testing with gRegor`'s URL, so kylewm, you wanna hit me again?
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danlyke And then I can figure out grabbing full entry text...
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gRegor` ben_thatmustbeme: I think you just want the p-rsvp in the <data>, not at the same level as the e-content.
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gRegor` Here's a successful RSVP I made: http://gregorlove.com/notes/2014/06/26/3/
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ben_thatmustbeme i had it there too... i started all my templates off of sempress, and there is definitely some confusion still in there. I need to fully rework them.
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gRegor` Right, I'm saying it should only be in the <data>, not both.
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gRegor` The "rsvp" key in the parsed data should only be "yes" or "no", case-sensitive too
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ben_thatmustbeme thats what i was guessing, but it didn't seem documented on /rsvp
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ben_thatmustbeme actually further down aaronpk looks to offer yes/no/maybe/other
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gRegor` looks like "tracking" and "invited" are other options.
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gRegor` http://microformats.org/wiki/rsvp-brainstorming#h-entry_plus_additions
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tantek.com edited /why (+107) "/* See also */ strongly related Fictive Kin's purpose essay" (view diff)
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@benwerd Talking about the post-Facebook #indieweb universe at #cyborgcamp https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/520623825080172544/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/520623825080172544)
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@davidmead Is that @t, without his glasses @benwerd? :-) #indieweb #cyborgcamp (twitter.com/_/status/520624478141693952)
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kylewm danlyke: that seemed to work! funny that you respond with SQL
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danlyke kylewm I tend to spew way too much debug-useful info in experimental stuff...
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danlyke (and by "debug-useful" I mean "hopefully not exploit-useful but my fingers are crossed on that front")
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tantek somewhat indieweb related (ran out of room to hashtag) https://twitter.com/t/status/520628777731489792
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@t post-Facebook #CyborgCamp session I predicted all here: 10y: have+use their "site">"cell" 20y: no "cell" like no pager (ttk.me t4YZ2) (twitter.com/_/status/520628777731489792)
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shaners Morning, #indieweb sailors!
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@timdjackson RT @benwerd: Yes, you can build great products without spying on users. #indieweb http://werd.io/2014/yes-you-can-build-great-products-without-spying-on-users (twitter.com/_/status/520632694691352576)
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@ahallicks Yes, you can build great products without spying on users. #indieweb - http://werd.io/2014/yes-you-can-build-great-products-without-spying-on-users (twitter.com/_/status/520635510277275648)
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tantek Twitter's notifications settings page is up to *22* checkboxes to uncheck for sending you *email* https://twitter.com/settings/notifications
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tantek notifications, which, their actual *"Notifications"* web UI https://twitter.com/i/notifications shows only a small subset of.
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aaronpk_ no wonder I keep getting emails from them
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danlyke Or the one big button at the top right.
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tantek which, by using various shades of grey, and looking different than all the checkboxes, is easily missed / ignored, likely by design
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danlyke huh. I thought it was obvious, *except* that I run my web browser small and it was scrolled off the right side.
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reedstrm well, give them props for allowing fine grained control, then. Even if the big button was a little unclear
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reedstrm Actually, based on the UX, I'd expect that button to be an overrride switch, but not mess w/ the settings otherwise.
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tantek danlyke, a feature they don't want you to use scrolled off the right side, imagine my surprise.
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reedstrm So you can tune what you want to receive, then disable it for, say, vacation.
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reedstrm And reenable it w/o having to retune.
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danlyke tantek, yeah, but at the size I run my browser, very few sites are usable without horizontal scrolling. Really mostly just my own.
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reedstrm danlyke: 800?
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reedstrm I remember designing for 800x600. Makes me nostalgic. :-)
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danlyke So I've become unable to distinguish unresponsive design from antipatterns
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danlyke reedstrm, a Gimp screen capture tells me it's about 700 px wide right now, probably usually between 640 and 700px.
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reedstrm ah yes. (I resized that twitter settings window and the button neatly disappears right around 800.)
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@jeckman This weekend is both IndieWebCamp Cambridge ( http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge ) AND BarCampBoston 9 ( http://www.barcampboston.org/ ). #cloning (twitter.com/_/status/520642364747317249)
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tantek Because password anti-pattern? or can't trust silos with private data? or … ? http://www.businessinsider.com/snapchat-hacked-the-snappening-2014-10?op=1
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tantek can't decide which wiki page(s) to put this on - any suggestions?
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danlyke Looks like "give credentials to third party, ever" anti-pattern (See also my "crying in my beer over not writing Blogger" whine)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.openparenthesis.org/2014/10/10/indie-web-camp-barcamp-boston-9 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieWebCamps (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.openparenthesis.org/2014/10/10/indie-web-camp-barcamp-boston-9 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Principles (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.openparenthesis.org/2014/10/10/indie-web-camp-barcamp-boston-9 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Projects (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.openparenthesis.org/2014/10/10/indie-web-camp-barcamp-boston-9 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.openparenthesis.org/2014/10/10/indie-web-camp-barcamp-boston-9 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge (pingback)
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ben_thatmust should add a poll type, that would be neat
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gRegor` Catching up... Twitter is the worst about notifications. They add new ones and they're almost always opt-out by default.
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shaners what is h-entry?
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Loqi h-entry is the microformats2 vocabulary for marking up blog posts on web sites http://indiewebcamp.com/h-entry
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KartikPrabhu_ is missing out on all the indiweb hacking this weekend due to no laptop :-(
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shaners where is the parsing algorithim for mf2? specifically what is the order of things to parse for u-* classes?
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kylewm shaners: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing#parsing_a_u-_property
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shaners kylewm: thank you. i was failing at searching the site. sheesh.
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kylewm yeah the mf2 stuff is difficult to find on there sometimes
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KartikPrabhu_2 shaners building your own parser?
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shaners Oh no. I already started one that @jlsuttles_ did most of the work on. https://github.com/g5/microformats2
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KartikPrabhu_ neat. more dev on ruby parser
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shaners KartikPrabhu_ Are you a rubyist?
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KartikPrabhu_ kylewm maybe we should add the new audio and video parsing rules to mf2py...
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KartikPrabhu_ I'm a python ;-)
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shaners ah
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reedstrm not a pythonista?
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KartikPrabhu_ but more parsers means more adoption
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shaners I was more asking as a publisher, not as a consumer of mf2.
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KartikPrabhu_ reedstrm yeah maybe that :-)
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reedstrm Parse all the things! No that's backwards: All the things, parse this! Now that sounds rude. *sigh*
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reedstrm apparently suffering from Fridayitis myself!
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shaners My thinking is that on my video posts, the <vide> tag has a placeholder attribute. Feels to me like that is a place for a .u-photo. But the .u-* parsing rules don't say anything about looking in @placeholder for a URL.
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emmak is there a u-video?
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KartikPrabhu_ emmak a new rule for audio was added recently. video is waiting use cases
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KartikPrabhu_ shaners the placeholder is for non JavaScript fallback?
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shaners when i said @placeholder, i meant @poster.
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shaners emmak: yes, there is u-video
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shaners which, in my case, is on my `video > source` tag.
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shaners but the placeholder image, eg the poster frame, is an image. so, u-photo feels right there.
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KartikPrabhu_ shakers the whole source and srcset things are not in the mf2 parsing rules yet. maybe document your use case which will prompt addition to rules
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emmak shaners: oh, i think i misunderstood your original question
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KartikPrabhu_ shaners not shakers
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shaners I think you're misunderstanding what i'm saying
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KartikPrabhu_ Hmm
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shaners there is a <source> tag. i'm talking about that. not the @src attr.
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KartikPrabhu_ oh then adding uphoto on the source should work
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shaners <video poster="foo.png" class=> <source src="foo.mp4 class="u-video /> </video>
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shaners i mean:
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shaners <video poster="foo.png" class="u-photo"> <source src="foo.mp4 class="u-video /> </video>
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shaners make sense now?
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KartikPrabhu_ poo more misunderstanding. The poster attribute won't be parsed that way
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shaners i understand.
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KartikPrabhu_ is that a standard attribute?
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shaners i'm suggesting that it should be
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shaners yes. it's a standard attr on <video>
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KartikPrabhu_ ok cool. then keep using it and document that as use case
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shaners emmak: how's neon coming along?
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KartikPrabhu_ maybe a hvideo could be made to parse poster automatically
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emmak shaners: i think its pretty close to being done. i'm interested in adding audio and video posts next
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shaners What does "done" mean?
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emmak at the point where it has all the features i need for my own use cases
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shaners got it
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shaners is neon meant to be a multi-user system? is that why your avatar is on every post?
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emmak its not a multi user system, that has more to do with trying to make the display of posts orthogonal
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emmak if you look at the feed display, or posts that have comments, it makes more sense
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emmak it is a big confusing to have my picture all over the front page, but it was a design tradeoff
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shaners URL of a post with comments handy?
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emmak http://notenoughneon.com/2014/7/26/1
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shaners I see. That makes more sense.
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ben_thatmust hmm, has anyone thought about a poll type of h-entry? or h-poll
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kylewm getting real retro up in here
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shaners emmak did you do a design iteration with your avatar in your sidebar in the About section? So it's once on every page (home/permalink/post with comments).
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emmak shaners: i had it that way originally
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shaners oh yeah?
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emmak maybe i should change it back
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shaners it's your site. do whatever you want! :D
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shaners I think your permalinks look great. (the URL you just pasted especially)
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shaners but i think your homepage is noisy
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emmak i want a design that doesn't confuse visitors
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Loqi gives emmak a design that doesn
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shaners LOQI!
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Loqi yeah!
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ben_thatmust Loqi is a designer now
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emmak that is a good point, i'd like to avoid noise
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ben_thatmust I'll take a pretty design loqi, since you are handing them out
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shaners And maybe you can punch up the text size of your post itself, so it's a little more prominient than the comments/replies/favorites?
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emmak that's a good idea
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KevinMarks don't worry your site will always be better designed than mine
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shaners i just inspected/edtied .e-content to font-size: 125%. Looks pretty grood.
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shaners Altogether, i like your site design a lot. Real clean. Real focused.
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shaners emmak++
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Loqi emmak has 8 karma
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shaners emmak: one last unsolicited suggestion for neon:
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shaners instead of .com/?t=article, /?t=note, /?t=photo, /articles, /notes, /photos
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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KevinMarks https://twitter.com/wirehead2501/status/520637760923652096/photo/1
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@wirehead2501 Google Plus, i think we need to talk about what "do not notify me" means. https://twitter.com/wirehead2501/status/520637760923652096/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/520637760923652096)
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emmak shaners: cool, thanks for all the feedback :)
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shaners anytime! i have lots of opinions. :D
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Loqi [mention] http://mlncn.withknown.com/2014/letting-know-that-i-am-mlncn linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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shaners how are people marking up their license?
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shaners still just using <a rel="license"> ?
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gRegor` What is license?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "license" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=license
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rascul no license page? interesting
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gRegor` I don't list a license on my site (yet), so don't know.
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shaners http://microformats.org/wiki/license
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shaners historically, it's just been rel-license. i wasn't sure if anyone was using u-license or something.
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sparverius what is the meaning of life, the universe, and everything?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "the meaning of life, the universe, and everything" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=the+meaning+of+life%2C+the+universe%2C+and+everything
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danlyke so totally abstract q: If we're going to be including source pages on Webmentions, has anyone thought through license implications? I'm kinda assuming that we're cool as long as we're playing, but...
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rascul interesting topic, that
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gRegor` what is the answer to the ultimate question of life the universe and everything?
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Loqi The Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, The Universe, and Everything is … 42 http://indiewebcamp.com/the_answer_to_the_ultimate_question_of_life_the_universe_and_everything
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danlyke ie: on the one hand, a webmention can be thought of as assumed consent, on the other hand, the first time a site that's been webmentioned switches to paid advertising, and the original referencing site has a CC attribution non-commercial license on it...
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kylewm danlyke: is it any different for facebook and ogp: and twitter and their metadata cards?
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danlyke kylewm, probably not. And probably not really worth worrying about. Just a "huh, I'm spidering their site and republishing it, this feels weird" vibe.
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gRegor` Interesting.
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gRegor` On the plus side, if the target site supports webmention properly, the original note author should be able to remove it from the target site by returning 410 and sending a follow-up wm
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kylewm Reply: 410 Cease and Desist
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gRegor` Haha
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gRegor` Hmm, how should webmentions respond to HTTP 418?
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danlyke Hmmmm... gonna have to consider this. Need to distinguish between time-outs/network errors and mentions in my retrieval code...
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gRegor` Yeah, I think that's why they went with 410 instead of just 404
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hawke.org sandro edited /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List () "(-520) /* Participants */ regrets from Alex Noakes and Happy Enchill" (view diff)
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hawke.org sandro edited /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (+0) "/* Participants */ update count" (view diff)
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carmen so barcamp has nothing to do w/ drinking or lawyers?
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hober carmen: indeed
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pdurbin hmm. "regrets". I'm planning on comming tomorrow at least
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carmen i'm going to checkout the nola jazz bands on sunday by passim . theyll be off by 530ish. guess iwc will be done by then
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carmen i hate how u have to walk in behind passholders to get into stata
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carmen can u like, print qr-code door tokens for confirmed participants tied to yoir x509+biometrics identity yet
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pdurbin not sure I've been in Stata before. I certainly don't have a pass
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carmen last time i was inside was 2007
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rhydd.org ~daf edited /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (+194) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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danlyke gRegor-phone parsed the h-entry, there's still some room for grossness and I need to expand the tags my HTML parser allows in user input text to modern standards, but I'm now including your reply text at http://www.flutterby.com/archives/comments/20399.html
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carmen never been in MSFT's NERD either , despite for years living within 22LR projectile distance of Kendall Sqr in Chelsea, the land thats 1/5th the price of Cambridge
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pdurbin :) I've been to NERD a couple times. I'm glad I checked that the event got moved to Stata. I was planning on the Berkman Center.
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /User:Ben.thatmustbe.me (+138) "permashortcitation support added, now doing Likes, RSVPs, and Bookmarks" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /OpenBlog (-10) "now doing Likes, RSVPs, and Bookmarks" (view diff)
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ben_thatmust hehe, had a busy day :D
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danlyke !tell kylewm semantic-wise, I'm trying to figure out how to determine which portion of your page to excerpt. Your h-entry is the whole body, I guess I'm looking for the e-content that's not inside the p-in-reply-to?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu_ excerpt would be p summary
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danlyke KartikPrabhu: neither kylewm nor gRegor` provide p-summary in their pages.
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snarfed danlyke: related: http://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context#original_content , http://indiewebcamp.com/comment-presentation
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kylewm it's a little tricky to do correctly without a proper mf2 parser
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Loqi kylewm: danlyke left you a message 14 minutes ago: semantic-wise, I'm trying to figure out how to determine which portion of your page to excerpt. Your h-entry is the whole body, I guess I'm looking for the e-content that's not inside the p-in-reply-to?
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kylewm you want the e-content that is a child of the h-entry but not a child of any other h-* class... if thatmakes sense
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gRegor` Is there a Perl mf2 parser?
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danlyke and KartikPrabhu suggests that I should be looking for the p-summary...
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gRegor` Only if you're wanting to display an excerpt.
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gRegor` Typically with notes we display the entire *-content
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kylewm yeah, if i were smart i would grab the p-summary first and fall back to e-content
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kylewm but i don't think i do
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gRegor` I don't check for summaries yet
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gregorlove.com edited /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (+0) "/* Participants */ signed up: 15" (view diff)
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danlyke Okay, I need to put two-way linking into my parse trees so I can tell if any of the parents of this node aren't of a type... Or put some more smarts in my node finder to allow negative searches for 'h-\w+'
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gRegor` I have no idea the quality/upkeep of this, but http://buzzword.org.uk/swignition/ might be a good start at least for parsing mf2 with Perl, danlyke.
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gRegor` 5 years old, looks like. But if it's parsing microformats already, might be a good start for mf2.
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kylewm just naively, I'd guess it'd be a lot easier to write a new mf2 parser than to "upgrade" a mf1 parser
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gRegor` Yeah? I've not really dug into the parsing rules/differences
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kylewm my understanding is that microformats had a lot of special cases and context-specific rules
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kylewm the microformats wiki gives pretty decent pseudo code for writing a new mf2 parser...
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kylewm or you could just shell out to php or python :)
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gRegor` True true
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gRegor` I was just wondering if pin13.net or others returned json output
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@PetraLitty RT @kopfzeiler: Ello war gestern. Jetzt kommt @tildeclub. Ich liebe die Ideen von @ftrain. https://medium.com/message/tilde-club-i-had-a-couple-drinks-and-woke-up-with-1-000-nerds-a8904f0a2ebf #Indieweb #Retroooo (twitter.com/_/status/520706281695608833)
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gRegor` Er, I guess it is, just pretty-printed. Long day here...
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kylewm webmention.io is Ruby and doesn't use the Ruby parser, hint hint
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gRegor` I think it uses pin13, doesn't it?
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kylewm it uses news.indiewebcamp.com/parse actually
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danlyke it's relatively easy for me to parse an HTML block and find specific classes within that block. I think I just need to add some exclude capabilities.
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danlyke But the problem I'm having with microformats is that the semantics seem to be way more complex than the application of them warrants.
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joskar While on the subject of parsers: when parsing e-* properties, are there some guidelines for sanitizing the HTML? (preventing XSS etc)
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kylewm.com created /XSS (+17) "Redirected page to [[xss]]" (view diff)
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gRegor` Part of the problem with just looking for class names is the different prefixes inform how to parse the value. Is that what you mean by overly complex semantics?
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danlyke joskar: My CMS parses user input to parse to a fairly limited subset of HTML3, strips any attributes that look like they could be Javascripted.
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joskar danlyke: Ok, so you just have a whitelist of tags and attributes and discard the rest?
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gRegor` joskar: I don't display the html value of e-content, just the plaintext value.
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danlyke gRegor` yeah. It'd be great if I could just do positive searches, but mixing negative and positive searches (ie: find h-entry, prune all other h-* classes, find the remaining *-content. When that's the main thing I want for a given Webmention.
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danlyke joskar yes. Pretty much treat it like user input HTML generally, ie: You want to let the users do some HTML (bbcode/other proprietary markup must die!!!1!!elevenses!!) but you don't want 'em breaking the page or adding malicious code, so...
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joskar Ok, thanks!
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joskar goes back to coding
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danlyke joskar I am tempted to go back to gRegor`'s scheme, but that leaves webmention users at a disadvantage vs native responses.
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gRegor` You could always pull http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2Fnotes%2F2014%2F10%2F10%2F1%2F :)
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gRegor` Which scheme?
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danlyke gRegor` just pulling the text and throwing away all the markup.
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danlyke I've seen so much bit rot over the years that there's no way I'm gonna use a parser someone else is hosting. That's what I'm trying to get *away* from.
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gRegor` Sure. It's easy to run locally, though.
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danlyke I'm also one of those "robust formats *need* to have multiple parsers" people, although in this case I might just give up on that.
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kylewm man I'd be up for helping to write a new parser if it were just about any other language
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kylewm string parsing in C/C++ is not my favorite thing to do
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joskar kylewm: Are you doing a parser in C as well? :)
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danlyke kylewm right now this is Perl, but I have C++ analogues for most of the Perl.
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kylewm joskar: nooo
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danlyke ie: my Perl system uses lots of regex, so I just put a regex library in C++ and got a little smarter about my string handling.
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danlyke I did start a lex based parser too, may continue that for the HTML parts, but the HTML parser is just a "parse the string subsets of the markdown parser and change the allowed tags" thing.
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danlyke I thought "oh, microformats is all class based, it's easy for me to say "get a list of all tags of type X with class of Y from this tree" (ie: the ways you'd play with the DOM), but I haven't done "unless they're underneath a tag of type Z" yet.
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kylewm the parsing algorithm is a recursive descent sort of thing... oh i'm at an h-class, grab all its properties, recursing on nested h-classes
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kylewm tantek queries his mf2 data store with xpath, if i understand correctly
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kylewm but obviously he knows what subset of mf2 markup he is using
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danlyke yeah, this stuff should be easy (in fact, easier in the C++ version than the Perl version), I just need to grind through the spec to figure out the right things. And rewrite the Flutterby.com stuff in C++ (right now only the Flutterby.net stuff is)
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@timmmmyboy The night before #indiewebcamp is the perfect time to buy your 8th server, right? Seems right. (twitter.com/_/status/520723224997666816)
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