#indiewebcamp 2014-12-15
2014-12-15 UTC
# 
@kevinmarks Well, @monkbent I think @felixsalmon is decrying the platisher trend, but incoherently. Lots of #indieweb now, eg https://withknown.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/544284560112877568)
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Loqi [bridgy] Andi Galpern RSVPed no to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-12-17-homebrew-website-club (https://facebook.com/736605033092500#100003502653187)
# Loqi [bridgy] Jon Pierce RSVPed maybe to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-12-17-homebrew-website-club (https://facebook.com/736605033092500#500370018)
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# Loqi [bridgy] marek 'saji' aug. favorited a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://twitter.com/t/status/539905950308925440)
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jonpierce.com created /User:Jonpierce.com (+70) "Created page with "='''<span class="h-card">[http://jonpierce.com/ Jon Pierce]</span>'''="" (view diff)
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@xtof_fr Pas de workshop #indieweb @openchateau (faute de wifi stable)... Remplacé par un retour en enfance sur un très .. http://xtof.withknown.com/2014/pas-de-workshop-indieweb-openchateau-faute-de-wifi-stable-remplac (twitter.com/_/status/544314238655672321)
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KevinMarks Aaronpk there was some discussion about that for rel-enclosure; http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-enclosure
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@kylewm2 Bookmarked Revision 200: The Indie Web on Working Draft: https://huffduffer.com/adactio/196502 #indieweb #tolisten (twitter.com/_/status/544360324132909056)
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tantek interesting way to comment on a phrase using Twitter: https://twitter.com/monkbent/status/544273497740947456
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@monkbent Wow. @felixsalmon clearly has no idea what WordPress is, or what it enables. Me, for instance http://www.theguardian.com/media/media-blog/2014/dec/14/digital-giants-small-blog-sites-buzzfeed-vice-mashable https://twitter.com/monkbent/status/544273497740947456/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/544273497740947456)
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@vofesoquhad I #ChooseIndependent with #Firefox (Happy 10th #fx10!) AND my #indieweb site, You should too (twitter.com/_/status/544366683654066176)
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@t I #ChooseIndependent with #Firefox (Happy 10th #fx10!) AND my #indieweb site. You should too: https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started (ttk.me t4Z51) (twitter.com/_/status/532165722299203584)
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tantek.com edited /tag-reply (+707) "/* How to */ subheads, simple tag-reply, and reply and tag" (view diff)
# KevinMarks Is there a name for a summary preview? Reply context is a form of it
# tantek.com edited /area-tag (+623) "Potential Bridgy Publish feature request, handle the person area tag reply to silo POSSE photo" (view diff)
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# tantek there's also /link-preview
# KevinMarks Maybe link preview is what I mean.
# tantek but the key here is that both /reply-context and /link-preview are documentation of very specific real world UI pieces
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# KevinMarks Reading link preview, that's pretty much what I mean. I suppose e-summary would be the way to mark turn up within an h-entry
# KevinMarks s/turn/them/
# KevinMarks the use case I'm thinking of is the reader case, where you want something glanceable inline, but not necessarily the full post
# KevinMarks Well p-summary of you want the text, yes. I'm thinking e-summary as an actual html preview
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KartikPrabhu why not use p-summary with a u-featured
# KevinMarks Because I don't want bitmaps
# KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: is there some use-case for when e-summary is better than p-summary?
# KevinMarks Think twitter cards, but not so Procrustean
# KartikPrabhu hmm that post is more of a call to use p-summary i.e. text instead of images
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Procrustean" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Procrustean
# KevinMarks Is there a use case for html being better than text?
# KartikPrabhu yes ^
# KartikPrabhu a good use-case would be math/MathML but MathML itself gets no love from anyone but Firefox
# KartikPrabhu yes agreed
# KevinMarks Are you looking at the same twitter cards I am?
# KartikPrabhu must sleep will catch up on this in the morning
# tantek.com edited /area-tag (+224) "/* area tag reply */ person area tag reply display, hover effects" (view diff)
# KevinMarks They are reinventing markup badly, yes
# KevinMarks Plumbing argument?
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# tantek.com edited /Falcon (-415) "/* one-off person-area-tag reply to photo */ made progress on document brainstorming in IRC about person-area-tag reply to photo, noted in-progress IRC logs bookmark" (view diff)
# tantek KevinMarks - anyway - I think /link-preview has the answers about how should link-preview clients get their content to display etc.
# KevinMarks I'm wondering if this is one of those points where we are trying too hard. We want an embeddable preview. We have a rich language available that we can render easily.
# KevinMarks Gadgets have some prior art here, where they had alternative versions for grid view and full-page
# KevinMarks Then there's the responsive design worldview, which I paid with in page as preview
# KevinMarks s/paid/played/
# KevinMarks Would "preview" make sense as a media query?
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# KevinMarks I'm noticing multiple variations on the same problem. Come to think of it, isn't this what RSS was originally for, in its Netscape incarnation?
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# KevinMarks Well, the in-stream view is similar.
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# KevinMarks Tonight in shouting at silos: https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/544399028159782912?s=09
# @kevinmarks Gah. The Facebook android app now opens web pages inside itself instead of using the browser. Total iOS centric fuckwittery. (twitter.com/_/status/544399028159782912)
# KevinMarks (click through to twitter for the thread on how twitter messes up image previews if they are wide)
# tantek KevinMarks: may I suggest you add to /Facebook#Criticism and /Twitter#Criticism respectively with your embedded screenshots?
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# KevinMarks !tell aaronpk timezones eh?
# KevinMarks !tell aaronpk http://alltheminutes.com
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@checkdisout Excellent! @aral from @indie as a first speaker for next years #theconf is a great choice. @mediaev @thornkvist #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/544497021768728576)
verdi_, friedcell, andrunix, snarfed, tantek, cmhobbs, reedstrm, j12t, wolftune, pfefferle, elf-pavlik, davidmead and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
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voxpelli WorkFlow.app for iOS seems useful for IndieWeb actions like eg POSSE: https://i.imgur.com/Ix2xHyj.jpg
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# michielbdejong davidmead: ah, looks like unlike indiewebcamp.com, ownyourgram.com requires you to add an authorization end-point and a token end-point to your home page, before it relies on indieauth.com. Is that what you're running into?
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# michielbdejong I'm seeing this: https://ownyourgram.com/auth/start?me=https%3A%2F%2Fmichielbdejong.com%2F&client_id=http%3A%2F%2Fownyourgram.com&redirect_uri=http%3A%2F%2Fownyourgram.com%2Fauth%2Fcallback which tells me I need to link from my site to indieauth.com
# michielbdejong maybe it depends on the theme as well, I'm running the Cherwell theme
# michielbdejong davidmead: are those indieauth.com links and to your token end-point part of Known?
# michielbdejong Wonder why I don't have the same ones on my site
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# michielbdejong off to dinner
# michielbdejong davidmead: but was that to log in to indiewebcamp.com or to ownyourgram.com?
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# michielbdejong hm, I have to learn more about how this all works :)
# michielbdejong If it's a problem with Known, then maybe you should open an issue on https://github.com/idno/idno/issues, so there's a record of it.
# michielbdejong yes! :)
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# gRegor` Poor UX of the day: changing out the credit card used to autoload my transit card. After adding the new card, updating the autoload to use the new card, attempt to delete the old one and an alert() window pops up saying the card is being used for autoloading (even though it's not)
# gRegor` Had to disable the autoload altogether, remove the old card, then enable it again with the new card.
# gRegor` Also, a simple javascript alert() for messages? Lame.
# tantek perhaps you could start a "Import from WordPress" subsection in https://indiewebcamp.com/Known#How_to ?
# 
davidmead @tantek i know ben is working on an importer, so i haven’t moved anything yet. it’s all been setting it up and re-aligning the URLs etc. I have to export from WP and the hosted Known blog http://davidmead.withknown.com, then pull it all together
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# tantek davidmead: https://indiewebcamp.com/email#Criticism ;)
# tantek.com edited /email (+54) "/* Bad for collaboration */ citation to wikis are better" (view diff)
# davidmead @kylewm i opened an issue on github https://github.com/idno/idno/issues/628 that has the text of what i’m getting on ownyourgram
# tantek.com edited /Known (+188) "move a couple of How To to Troubleshooting, add Transition from WordPress stub" (view diff)
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# tantek davidmead: any incremental notes you can add appreciated: https://indiewebcamp.com/Known#Transition_from_WordPress
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# tantek davidmead: thanks. also, might want to create https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=Template:davidmead&action=edit&redlink=1 - see https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=Template:t&action=edit&redlink=1 for an example :)
# blog.davidjohnmead.com created /Template:davidmead (+153) "Created page with "<span class="h-card" style="white-space:nowrap">
{{sparkline|https://twitter.com/davidmead/profile_image}}[[User:davidjohnmead.com.com|David Mead" target="_blank">User:davidjohnmead.com.com|David" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/davidmead/profile_image}}[[User:davidjohnmead.com.com|David Mead]]</span>"" (view diff)# davidmead @tantek my bad. that was on https://indiewebcamp.com/IRC_People.
# Loqi aaronpk: KevinMarks left you a message 6 hours, 20 minutes ago: http://alltheminutes.com
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ben_thatmustbeme morning aaronpk
# ben_thatmustbeme for those not in the offtopic room btmb.me/s/5e
# ben_thatmustbeme yeah, that is pretty nice, i've been wanted to do that for a while too
# tantek.com edited /reply-context (+168) "how to display - link to existing examples as best practices" (view diff)
# @kylewm2 Signed up for @huffduffer, loving the quietly magic indieweb things it’s doing, e.g. automatically built my user profile based on my website (twitter.com/_/status/544546390634807297)
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kylewm hmm, I'm not sure how long I've had images in reply contexts! maybe since https://kylewm.com/2014/05/i-used-to-live-in-bernal-heights-when-i-lived-in-the-city-looks-like
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# tantek.com edited /reply-context-examples (+391) "/* Kyle Mahan */ note photo reply-context separately" (view diff)
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@davidmead It's alive! http://blog.davidjohnmead.com is where I'll be posting from now, using self-hosted @withknown. Adjust your web accordingly #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/544549792982904832)
# tantek.com edited /reply-context-examples (+19) "/* Kyle Mahan */ note date of reply context example shown" (view diff)
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "indieweb pep talk" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=indieweb+pep+talk
# tantek.com edited /indieweb_pep_talk (+22) "r to videos which do actually give a pep talk :)" (view diff)
# ben_thatmustbeme Huh. completely forgot that i'm sending vouches with every webmention, and that i only accept from whitelist or vouched sites. I only just remembered it because my posting UI still has the auto poll for a vouch-url when doing reply-to
# tantek GWG - if you're looking for an example of such "major decisions" documentation, here's mine: https://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#Implementation_Design
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# ben_thatmustbeme nice, kylewm does comment editing correctly.
# ben_thatmustbeme just had to fix my comment
# tantek perhaps at some point we can start a separate page for /reply-to-photo for expanding on why, how to, and good indieweb examples of replies to photos.
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# tantek currently we only have the stub of https://indiewebcamp.com/CRUD
# tantek kylewm: might want to check out the invitations presentation on your event - looks like images are not being resized to square icons (whereas they are in your RSVPs, likes, comments on that post) https://kylewm.com/2014/12/homebrew-website-club-17-december-2014
# kylewm tantek: facepile is a good idea. I was waiting for https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/319 but I might go ahead and pile 'em up without it
# tantek kylewm: why is "@kylewm2 @huffduffer" autolinked in the Twitter reply from @dissolve333 but not in the indie reply directly from ben_thatmustbeme? on https://kylewm.com/2014/12/signed-up-for-huffduffer-loving-the-quietly-magic
# kylewm tantek: because bridgy adds links around @-names https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/kylewm2/544546390634807297/544553156802138112
# tantek.com edited /CRUD (+926) "IndieWeb Examples, start with kylewm's support of receiving Updates" (view diff)
# tantek ok I know others support CRUD already on their comments, e.g. aaronpk, snarfed, benwerd? Add yourselves! https://indiewebcamp.com/CRUD#IndieWeb_Examples
# snarfed !tell pfefferle does the wordpress webmention plugin support updating existing comments? if so, feel free to add to https://indiewebcamp.com/CRUD#IndieWeb_Examples
# tantek.com edited /invitation (+513) "/* How to */ Display invitations on an event, consider facepile" (view diff)
# tantek kylewm: since you've *implemented* showing invitations on an event - please see and add to: https://indiewebcamp.com/invitation#How_to
# tantek.com edited /invitation (+258) "/* Display invitations on an event */ abbreviated facepile silo example" (view diff)
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "huffduffer" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=huffduffer
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# realjxn1 I seem to be incapable of finding any doc for upgrading idno. Can someone point me in the right direction?
# realjxn1 tantek: yeah, I just didn't see anything there, I'm afraid
# realjxn1 looked in obvious places on the github repo (docs folder), looked for a composer.json w/ info, etc, but I'm probably missing something obvious
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# 
aaronpk I just realized I can leave notes on my sleep by commenting on my own posts. http://aaron.pk/m4ZeLtQ
# tantek realjxn1: is there something in the UI possibly? I don't see any update details here either: http://docs.withknown.com/en/latest/install/instructions.html
# realjxn1 yeah, found those installation instructions in a few places, but nothing about upgrade yet
# tantek.com edited /Known (+82) "/* How to */ install, link to withknown official docs" (view diff)
# tantek !tell benwerd,davidmead are there instructions somewhere on how to upgrade a Known install? nothing on the official docs. Perhaps you could add a brief "Upgrade" subsection in https://indiewebcamp.com/Known#How_to even if it's just a single command or two ? cc: realjxn1. Thanks!
# realjxn1 Thanks tantek
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# realjxn1 I actually don't *need* to upgrade, as I don't have anything in my install yet (aside from the basics). I just wanted to see how smoothly an upgrade would go.
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# realjxn1 Loqi is your bot?
# realjxn1 ha
# ben_thatmustbeme tantek, you got it correct on my edited comment. as for not auto-linking @-mentions, I don't yet. Bridgy autolinks on twitter. Once i get around to contacts and unified authors I plan to actually just autolink to an indiewebsite, then fall back to twitter
# Loqi Loqi is a friendly and useful bot present in the #indiewebcamp IRC channel and other channels https://indiewebcamp.com/Loqi
# tantek looks for "auto-linking @-mentions" in https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Ben.thatmustbe.me#Postly
# ben_thatmustbeme .... FINE
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /User:Ben.thatmustbe.me (+25) "/* Postly */ happy now tantek? :P" (view diff)
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# ben.thatmustbe.me edited /User:Ben.thatmustbe.me (+296) "/* Postly */ reorganizing todo list" (view diff)
# ben_thatmustbeme there tantek :P
# ben_thatmustbeme under duress
# 
@dissolve333 @davidmead Welcome to the indieweb. How is self hosted known treating you thus far? (btmb.me s/5g) (twitter.com/_/status/544577752603451392)
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# @kevinmarks "a weblog is a representation of a person" - @tomcoates http://plasticbag.org/archives/2005/04/the_horseless_carriage #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/544580291176570880)
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@edsu RT @kevinmarks: "a weblog is a representation of a person" - @tomcoates http://plasticbag.org/archives/2005/04/the_horseless_carriage #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/544580407820578817)
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@idworkshop RT @kevinmarks: "a weblog is a representation of a person" - @tomcoates http://plasticbag.org/archives/2005/04/the_horseless_carriage #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/544580774083579904)
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@windley RT @kevinmarks: "a weblog is a representation of a person" - @tomcoates http://plasticbag.org/archives/2005/04/the_horseless_carriage #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/544580774075191297)
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@jgarber @paulrobertlloyd I’ve /finally/ opened up access to my webmention Sinatra application: https://github.com/jgarber623/webmention.sixtwothree.org (twitter.com/_/status/544580872742383618)
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sixtwothree.org edited /User:Sixtwothree.org (+27) "Update with link to source code for webmention.sixtwothree.org" (view diff)
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@paulrobertlloyd RT @jgarber: @paulrobertlloyd I’ve /finally/ opened up access to my webmention Sinatra application: https://github.com/jgarber623/webmention.sixtwothree.org (twitter.com/_/status/544581942679969792)
# ben_thatmustbeme hmm davidmead, seems my webmention didn't get to your page though
# @davidmead Hasn't been without it's ups & downs @dissolve333 :-) I'll be posting about it on https://indiewebcamp.com/Known#Transition_from_WordPress and my .. http://blog.davidjohnmead.com/2014/hasnt-been-without-its-ups-downs-dissolve333---ill-be (twitter.com/_/status/544582283315802112)
# Loqi [mention] David Mead commented 'Hasn't been without it's ups & downs @dissolve333 :-) I'll be posting about it on https://indiewebcamp.com/Known#Transition_from_WordPre...' on a post that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Known#Transition_from_WordPress (http://blog.davidjohnmead.com/2014/hasnt-been-without-its-ups-downs-dissolve333---ill-be)
# Loqi davidmead: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 3 minutes ago: are there instructions somewhere on how to upgrade a Known install? nothing on the official docs. Perhaps you could add a brief "Upgrade" subsection in https://indiewebcamp.com/Known#How_to even if it's just a single command or two ? cc: realjxn1. Thanks!
# ben_thatmustbeme huh, so does anyone else have an issue with bridgy using more than just the content of the post but only with certain types? http://btmb.me/s/5g synidcates to twitter correctly, but http://btmb.me/s/5e did not, it included my name, the date, and "Shortlink"
# ben_thatmustbeme davidmead: ahh, i was looking at the wrong copy, there are two copies of that post
# KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: weird, it has always worked correctly for me even with photos
# snarfed ben_thatmust: also i don't see the behavior you describe. when i plug http://btmb.me/s/5e into bridgy publish preview, it shows "Its official (btmb.me s/5e)" and the picture
# ben_thatmustbeme snarfed, huh, but its grabbing all of entry-meta, not just p-name
# ben_thatmustbeme weird, thats not what it did this morning
# @dissolve333 Ben Roberts December 15, 2014 8:04 AM Shortlink Its official(btmb.me s/5e) https://twitter.com/dissolve333/status/544479685539659776/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/544479685539659776)
# ben_thatmustbeme i did just sync, maybe there was a glitch i didn't see that was causing it.
# ben_thatmustbeme davidmead, ouch, you can't just delete one of them though?
# ben_thatmustbeme also, i see known needs to do original-post-discovery. I need to do the same
# gRegor` Apparently some of the web servers for phpbb.com were compromised. http://phpbb.com/
# gRegor` Odd that they're rebuilding from the ground up, but still have the "download" link at the bottom still.
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gregorlove.com edited /events/next-hwc (+0) "Redirected page to [[events/2014-12-17-homebrew-website-club]]" (view diff)
# ben_thatmustbeme davidmead, you can tell by looking at the posts on your site, the twitter entry is correct, the second post only went to facebook and as no comments http://blog.davidjohnmead.com/2014/its-alive-is-where-ill-be-posting-from-now-using-1 the link to the FB entry is right at the bottom, you can pop over and delete it there quite easily
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# ben_thatmustbeme davidmead++
# KevinMarks_ aaronpk: huffduffer is more like instapaper for audio - you use the bookmarklet on an mp3 file online and then have a podcast feed to subscribe to in your podcatcher
# KevinMarks_ hm, maybe I should add a huffduffer link to audio posts in unmung.
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# ben_thatmustbeme snarfed, while your at it, why doesn't it link to the tweet/reply here. i'm not getting backfed responses to the reply
# snarfed ben_thatmust: which one? https://twitter.com/dissolve333/status/544577752603451392 doesn't have any responses, and i see the one reply to https://twitter.com/dissolve333/status/544479685539659776/photo/1 on http://btmb.me/s/5g
# @dissolve333 @davidmead Welcome to the indieweb. How is self hosted known treating you thus far? (btmb.me s/5g) (twitter.com/_/status/544577752603451392)
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# ben_thatmustbeme yeah, that one, davidmead replied but i have yet to get backfeed and in the https://www.brid.gy/twitter/dissolve333# the link isn't there
# snarfed ben_thatmustbeme: i don't see davidmead's reply on https://twitter.com/dissolve333/status/544577752603451392 , so twitter doesn't think it's actually a reply, just a tweet that mentions you
# @dissolve333 @davidmead Welcome to the indieweb. How is self hosted known treating you thus far? (btmb.me s/5g) (twitter.com/_/status/544577752603451392)
# ben_thatmustbeme ahh, i see when he syndicated it didn't catch it as a reply to the post
# ben_thatmustbeme interesting. again, wonder if thats a known Known issue
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# tantek.com edited /action_button (+216) "Articles about - erinjo: UI Icons that Drive Me Crazy" (view diff)
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "hamburger" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=hamburger
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "hotdog" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=hotdog
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# 
@veganstraightedge Re-sketching @homesteadingio architecture to better understand / explain it. #indieweb @ The Farmhouse http://instagram.com/p/wpLqhuMngd/ (twitter.com/_/status/544614059006361600)
# ben_thatmustbeme hamburger and hotdog i thought were both terms for the same icon
# gRegor` according to erinjo's post, yeah. I had no idea about 'hotdog'
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# Loqi [mention] http://aaron-gustafson.com/notebook/what-do-we-own/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
# Loqi [mention] http://aaron-gustafson.com/notebook/what-do-we-own/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (webmention)
# Loqi [mention] http://aaron-gustafson.com/notebook/enabling-webmentions-in-jekyll/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (webmention)
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