#indiewebcamp 2014-12-17

2014-12-17 UTC
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@supremarock Encourage ethnic/racial inclusion in the #Amazon @indiewire @indieweek @indiewebcamp @IndiegogoFilm https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/music-video-that-creates-consciousness (twitter.com/_/status/545011147448283137)
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GWG !tell snarfed Likely the new server. I wrote the message to test it.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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snarfed nods
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Loqi snarfed: GWG left you a message 3 minutes ago: Likely the new server. I wrote the message to test it.
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@mistermac2008 RT @thierrymarianne: @benwerd talks abt @withknown used by students to own their contents & syndicate them out #IndieWeb via @MozillaParis … (twitter.com/_/status/545026767426052096)
lukebrooker, mdik, KartikPrabhu, j12t, prtksxna, reedstrm, carlo_au, tilgovi, snarfed and frzn joined the channel
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GWG I'm not sure what the problem was, but I think I fixed it
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snarfed GWG: yup, you did
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snarfed https://www.brid.gy/facebook/100002356503167#responses
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GWG snarfed: I guess I need to make some server changes still.
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prtksxna Hello o/
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GWG Hi
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prtksxna GWG: o/
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prtksxna I recently came across IndieWebCamp. Its answers so many questions I've had
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prtksxna I am working on making my own website better for now…
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GWG What is your site?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "your site" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=your+site
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prtksxna Just my personal site - http://prtksxna.com/
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prtksxna There is a lot of do for now. I don't have microformats set-up correctly
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GWG What do you want to do next?
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prtksxna I am not sure about RSS spamming. I have some post types that are pretty small and I am not sure if I want someone who is subscribed to my feed to see all of them. I know that kind of beats the purpose but I feel that it might be TMI
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prtksxna GWG: Get the basics right first. I know I want it to be on top of Wordpress but I am unsure of my current approach - https://github.com/prtksxna/feedme/issues
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prtksxna http://prtksxna.com/2014/12/04/feed-me/
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GWG Well, welcome aboard.
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GWG Always happy to have another WordPress user onboard
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prtksxna :)
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prtksxna What do you use to consume RSS feeds?
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GWG At the moment, TT-RSS
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GWG But there are Indieweb feed readers being worked on
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prtksxna I see, do you face the the RSS issue I mentioned?
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GWG I run my own installation
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prtksxna I am also unsure of how to syndicate certain kinds of content like check-ins…
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GWG prtksxna: It is something many people are working on.
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GWG I'm not sure who is working on Check-Ins for WordPress. I started a project but didn't take it far.
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prtksxna That is good to know, any projects in particular worth following
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prtksxna I wrote check-in support for my theme but I am unsure of syndication on RSS
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GWG Well, a lot of individual work is documented on the wiki
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prtksxna I saw some of it. Will take a deeper look over the weekend.
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prtksxna Thanks GWG o/
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GWG prtksxna: I had to stop for a bit to write a new cache invalidation plugin, but I have a lot of irons in the fire.
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bret hey prtksxna welcome!
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bret bb tomorrow
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Loqi bret: snarfed left you a message 8 hours, 51 minutes ago: looks like it might be half done already. e.g. https://charlesleifer.com/blog/a-flask-front-end-and-chrome-extension-for-youtube-dl/ among others
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bret ill check it out snarfed!
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KartikPrabhu hm more Wordpress people... good!
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GWG KartikPrabhu: Makes me think I should be advocating more
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KartikPrabhu GWG: the best way to advocate IMO is to have a great site of your own that does things
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prtksxna True
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GWG I'm working on it. Slowly
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: nice theme on your site. neat and clean
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prtksxna KartikPrabhu: Thanks, I finished it recently. Still needs a lot of work :)
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@kevinmarks @SaraJChipps https://indieauth.com/ will emulate openid for you. That's what I use now #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/545101343971872768)
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@deburca @StartupLJackson but he'd be in a state of conflict between using medium for his blog or going #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/545111462948392960)
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@kartik_prabhu @deburca why would anyone have a conflict between Medium and #indieweb ? (twitter.com/_/status/545124858816778240)
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KartikPrabhu ok might have started an argument there ^
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prtksxna I could never understand the point of Medium. Its like wordpress.com with content curation, right?
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: to be fair it offers a much better UI for posting as well as "comments"
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KartikPrabhu but it is not a choice between Medium and indieweb if you want to own your data
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prtksxna Its interesting how things become popular because they get a fresh coat of paint.
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: and it is not like wordpress in that you can't host your own instance of wordpress
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KartikPrabhu sorry you can of wordpress but not Medium
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prtksxna That is why I said wordpress.com
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: yup I did catch that :)
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prtksxna Yeah
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KartikPrabhu but still Medium has slicker UI and so on...
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prtksxna applies paint to #indieweb to make it slicker
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KartikPrabhu not needed :P
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prtksxna That is what I hoped. But it isn't true if the masses are to adopt.
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prtksxna Isn't that what you were saying?
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: in my own cynical view masses seems to adopt whatever is new and shiny
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KartikPrabhu to plug my own stuff you can have paragraph level comments on the indieweb see: https://github.com/kartikprabhu/marginalia and an example post is: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia
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KartikPrabhu take that Medium
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prtksxna KartikPrabhu: i was looking at this yesterday :)
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prtksxna Realized only now that those tiny icons were clickable :|
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KartikPrabhu haha! it isn't obvious like most UI elements/icons you make up
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prtksxna Too obscure for me. And that's when I was actively trying to look for one.
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KartikPrabhu but I tried to make them similar to Medium's icons and also the "accepted" icon for comments
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prtksxna Oh, I am not familiar with medium icons either.
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: love to have feedback. if you are not indieweb enough you can always comment using Twitter on: https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/483362431746322435
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@kartik_prabhu demo-ed #marginalia #annotations on the #indieweb @indiewebcamp in NYC: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia Thanks to @t and @chloeweil (twitter.com/_/status/483362431746322435)
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KartikPrabhu or G+ : https://plus.google.com/117114060857732496623/posts/jgEcTWesrAg
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KartikPrabhu he! Loqi avoids G+!
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Loqi who, me?
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prtksxna KartikPrabhu: That was all the feedback I have :) Sorry, not indieweb enough yet and don't want to use Twitter either.
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KartikPrabhu fair enough! good feedback nevertheless. I did realise that those icons might not be enough. but not sure how to solve the problem
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KartikPrabhu any suggestions are welcome
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prtksxna KartikPrabhu: Maybe have them lined up on one side? That way I'll always know where to look to find one, instead of having to jump from one paragraph ending another.
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: you feel that the diff positioning makes them seem irrelevant?
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prtksxna Not irrelevant, just hard to find. They are also easier to miss because they are just outlines and not a full solid.
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: good point. I made the outline because it was more colour-blind friendly. I will think about it!
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prtksxna KartikPrabhu: Very rare cases of colorblindness cause complete color blindness. If you keep your hues far apart there shouldn't be too much of a problem.
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: true. but my site is based on a green-red theme and I did have bear complain about it at indiewebcamp NYC :)
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prtksxna KartikPrabhu: I usually use http://webaim.org/articles/visual/colorblind to test
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prtksxna KartikPrabhu: Ah! I am sure we can find a way around that :)
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prtksxna (btw - see how its usually just one channel that is impaired)
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KartikPrabhu that would be the best! I am open to suggestion, being not a web-dev
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prtksxna So you just want one normal and one active state, is that right?
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: yes. I do understand the mechanics of colour blindness but that does not mean I understand how to get around it :)
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: yup
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prtksxna Aha! Just switch it. Keeping it solid will make it noticeable and if its only outline on click people already know where it is.
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: hmm that is very good. the solid state will bring attention to it and people who have cliked are more likely to know that it will be in outline mode
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna++
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Loqi prtksxna has 1 karma
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prtksxna hi-fives KartikPrabhu
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KartikPrabhu hi-fives back
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prtksxna KartikPrabhu: For a person who doesn't do much web-dev your website looks great. I like how crisp the type is :)
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KartikPrabhu well the only web-dev I do is my own site :P and thanks!
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: speaking of which you should have an about page on your site :)
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prtksxna KartikPrabhu: I should have a link to it :) http://prtksxna.com/about/
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KartikPrabhu and i should have tried that at least :P
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julian`` hey any of you guys work with laravel much
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prtksxna I should also update it
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Loqi I agree
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KartikPrabhu ha!
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KartikPrabhu oh sweet Mumbai! I am from there too
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KartikPrabhu based in Chicago at the moment for stuff
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prtksxna I am from Noida (near Delhi) and I live in Goa :)
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julian`` http://prtksxna.com/work/pixel-art-of-a-calendar/ this is awesome, reminds me of habbo hotel
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prtksxna julian``: Haboo Hotel!! Is that…the game that 4chan once took over?
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prtksxna julian``: Also, thank you :)
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julian`` yeah i think so they raided that site a lot when i used to play when i was younger lol
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KartikPrabhu oh boy 4chan!
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prtksxna My internet connection was too bad to play it when it came out. I only heard of it much later. Looked like fun.
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prtksxna The wiki wasn't lying when it said that this channel was friendly :)
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: people here write the wiki :P
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prtksxna :)
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prtksxna Note to self: People lie, wikis dont :P
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KartikPrabhu haha
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prtksxna Wikis can't, rather.
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KartikPrabhu "wikis don't lie" new Shakira hit single
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prtksxna /o\
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KartikPrabhu lol! I don't think most people here would get that symbol
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prtksxna A man holding his head?
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KartikPrabhu possibly
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: you do indieweb most things. you should get on the microformats+webmention thing
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KartikPrabhu what is microformats?
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Loqi microformats are extensions to HTML for marking up people, organizations, events, locations, blog posts, products, reviews, resumes, recipes etc https://indiewebcamp.com/microformats
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KartikPrabhu what is webmention?
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Loqi Webmention is a simple way to notify any URL when you link to it on your site https://indiewebcamp.com/Webmention
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prtksxna I will
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prtksxna I've known about these technologies for quite some time now (microformats at least)
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: to be fair microformats has been most used here on the indieweb to actually do something (like comments) rather than pander to search engines and SEO people
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prtksxna Works takes up a lot of time. I'll probably get everything done over the holidays.
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KartikPrabhu yup. I get that compeltely
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prtksxna KartikPrabhu: http://prtksxna.com/2014/12/17/wikis-dont-lie/
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julian`` haha
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KartikPrabhu dope!
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KartikPrabhu :)
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prtksxna I wish there were meetups here, in Goa too
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prtksxna I am coming to SF next month, I'll miss the event happening in December :(
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: if you find one another interested party you can have a home brew website club
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KartikPrabhu there is one in SF every 2 weeks
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prtksxna Oh. Let's hope I catch one :)
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KartikPrabhu yeah keep a look out for it. usually tantek and kylewm are at the SF one
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prtksxna Too many new things/people!
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prtksxna shuts down
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KartikPrabhu c'est la vie
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KartikPrabhu judaspriest! it is 3am here. must sleep
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KartikPrabhu good night Loqi
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KartikPrabhu and others
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Loqi buenas noches
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prtksxna \o
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KartikPrabhu o/ prtksxna hope to see more of you here
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prtksxna KartikPrabhu: I'll be around!
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prtksxna GWG: Do you use a plugin to get webmention on WP?
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@deburca @kartik_prabhu Is Medium "indie"? https://indiewebcamp.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/545141539555778560)
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KartikPrabhu oh no I haz to answer things on the internetz
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@kartik_prabhu @deburca Can I host Medium on my domain? Probably not! Which is why I don’t see the conflict with #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/545142915647811586)
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julian`` does anyone know of any free services for managing email on my own domain? like the old outlook and google apps used to allow
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prtksxna julian``: Something like https://www.fastmail.com/?domain=fastmail.fm ?
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KartikPrabhu what is email?
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Loqi Email is a decentralized, non-web messaging transport https://indiewebcamp.com/email
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petermolnar julian`` by managing mail you mean sending and receiving with your own domain?
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julian`` yeah
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julian`` and setting up new accounts would be cool though im not sure many sites would offer this service for free
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petermolnar the cleanest way is to have a 5$/month Virtual Private Server from DigitalOcean with a small linux on it with, for example, Postfix + Dovecot
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julian`` my site is already hosted at digitalocean so ill look into postfix and dovecot ty
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petermolnar I wrote a little semi-tutorial on setting up a mailserver a little while ago: https://petermolnar.eu/linux-tech-coding/debian-lightweight-mailserver-postfix-dovecot-dspam/
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petermolnar it might help
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KartikPrabhu julian``: fwiw I use my domain providers service to forward everything to my gmail. not the best indieweb solution but still it workd
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petermolnar KartikPrabhu you could do that with a postfix + an alias file as well
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KartikPrabhu petermolnar: oh did not know that. actually I don't know what hose mean even :P
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petermolnar there are several Mail Transfer Agents ( MTA ) for short for linux; they are the "SMTP" servers, communicating ( sending and receiving ) mails from other hosts
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petermolnar exim and postfix are the big names, but there are others
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petermolnar the IMAP servers are to serve the mails to the clients; the big names here are Cyrus and Docevot
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KartikPrabhu petermolnar: of course. but a less technical alternative would be useful (even for what I've done)
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petermolnar maybe Zentyal? http://www.zentyal.org/
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petermolnar that has a webGUI for setting these things up
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petermolnar but it's a bit heavy
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petermolnar and usually not offered by VPS providers
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petermolnar and there is also Virtualmin which can manage virtual hosts and mails as well
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petermolnar http://www.virtualmin.com/
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petermolnar I used to use both a long time ago
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KartikPrabhu petermolnar: since you have eperience you should document those on /email
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petermolnar experience from ~4 years ago are more or less invalid nowadays :)
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petermolnar although I can mention them as possible solutions
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KartikPrabhu yes that would be good too. some documentation is better than none
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petermolnar if only I could log in to the wiki :/ ( it's always freaking slow for me )
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petermolnar is it just me or is anyone else having troube loggin in to indieauth?
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KartikPrabhu on the wiki?
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petermolnar both the wiki & the indieauth.com site
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julian`` mines freezing up
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KartikPrabhu mine too
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KartikPrabhu oops seems indieauth.com is down
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: indieauth.com seems to be down. getting the "welcome to nginix page"
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KartikPrabhu !tell aaronpk: indieauth.com seems to be down. getting the "welcome to nginix page"
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@benwerd Discovering that many wifi hotspots automatically kill large file POSTs, but, eg, Dropbox works. Room for JS chunked uploads? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/545162748607217664)
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@jmcclurken "Hack Education Top Ed-Tech Trends of 2014" \\the IndieWeb http://2014trends.hackeducation.com/indie.html (twitter.com/_/status/545167847337783296)
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dch moin, looking at the iwc wiki its possible to login to the wiki via persona. Anybody have more details to share?
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prtksxna dch: I hear that the auth was down, but I don't know much more.
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dch aaah ok
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dch I will try again in the new year :-)
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prtksxna dch: I am sure it'll get fixed sooner than that :)
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elf-pavlik dch, AFAIK it uses https://indieauth.com/ so you just need rel="me" link on your website with href="mailto:name@domain.tld"
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elf-pavlik this way indieauth will offer you mozilla persona as one of available options
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hugoroyd hello, any known/brid.gy experts here? :)
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hugoroyd testing known to twitter crossposting, as it was bugging for me recently: https://ampoliros.net/2014/unfortunately-time-has-stopped this one got to twitter, but bridgy is not detecting any responses
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hugoroyd actually brid.gy tells me " No post links found "
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michielbdejong hugoroyd: there is indeed no link back from https://twitter.com/hugoroyd/status/545163163726270464 to your site
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@hugoroyd Unfortunately, Time has stopped https://twitter.com/hugoroyd/status/545163163726270464/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/545163163726270464)
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hugoroyd michielbdejong: yeah but i see on other examples that it shuold work anyway
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hugoroyd http://werd.io/2014/getting-things-started-nitot-discusses-a-book-about-decentralization-at
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hugoroyd https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/544929815266988032
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@benwerd Getting things started: @nitot discusses a book about decentralization at @MozillaParis. https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/544929815266988032/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/544929815266988032)
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michielbdejong hm, not sure how bridgy did that. looks like https://indiewebcamp.com/original-post-discovery would require a link to the original
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hugoroyd michielbdejong: i'm wondering :-á
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hugoroyd michielbdejong: does it work on your Known instance?
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hugoroyd maybe benwerd isn't using bridgy?
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michielbdejong no, it's not working for me either. maybe i have my bridgy account misconfigured though
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michielbdejong https://michielbdejong.com/2014/above-all-else-the-yotaphone-2-is-cool-20141257338753yotaphone-2-hands-on-preview does not show any favorites, although https://twitter.com/michielbdejong/status/542010220319617024 does
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@michielbdejong Above all else, the YotaPhone 2 is cool. http://www.theverge.com/2014/12/5/7338753/yotaphone-2-hands-on-preview (twitter.com/_/status/542010220319617024)
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hugoroyd michielbdejong: i replied ;)
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michielbdejong on https://www.brid.gy/twitter/michielbdejong# it just says 'failed', different from your error
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hugoroyd michielbdejong: that's because your own original post was a reply to verge
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hugoroyd so it's trying to send the mention to the verge
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michielbdejong ah, true
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michielbdejong but where did it find the original post URL then?
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hugoroyd michielbdejong: i also replied from known, but it's not showing either :-/
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hugoroyd michielbdejong: probably on known, i don't see where else
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hugoroyd michielbdejong: which makes me wondering why it can't always get twitter feedback
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michielbdejong you think it just scrapes my home page in search of a post with a similar text?
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hugoroyd no idea
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michielbdejong or Known tells brid.gy about it?
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michielbdejong it's mysterious :)
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hugoroyd yes!
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hugoroyd michielbdejong: most mysterious is why https://ampoliros.net/2014/testing-known-reply-to-michielbdejongs-known-through-twitter-too-- isn't showing :)
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hugoroyd michielbdejong: oh, maybe it's trying to send the reply back to the verge too? That'd be confusing
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michielbdejong it says no end-point found there
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michielbdejong oh, maybe i know how it works
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michielbdejong but this is just guessing
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michielbdejong it could tell my server that there is a reply to my tweet, instead of to my post
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michielbdejong and Known could then work out which post it was
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michielbdejong but i'm not even sure if that's allowed in webmention
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hugoroyd michielbdejong: can you help me file an issue about this?
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hugoroyd btw michielbdejong ben from known was talking about remotestorage yesterday, but i'm not sure what he was trying to do
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michielbdejong hugoroyd: you can refer to the irc logs when you file an issue
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michielbdejong cool! we want to make remotestorage an rfc
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hugoroyd michielbdejong: any hint what i should describe? what's relevant?
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michielbdejong I'm also going to offer remoteStorage hosting soon
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hugoroyd michielbdejong: of course ;)
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michielbdejong hm, just link to https://www.brid.gy/twitter/hugoroyd# should be enough, actually. And asking why this is not failing for the werd.io post
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hugoroyd michielbdejong: https://github.com/idno/idno/issues/633
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@benwerd A real pleasure to meet with @mycozycloud. What a superb platform. #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/545213349630185473)
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@NeueB RT @thierrymarianne: @benwerd talks abt @withknown used by students to own their contents & syndicate them out #IndieWeb via @MozillaParis … (twitter.com/_/status/545214566586912768)
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GWG prtksxna: Yes. Wordpress Webmention
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GWG petermolnar: Thank you, by the way
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petermolnar ?
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petermolnar trying to figure out what did he get the thanks for
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GWG I was going to tell you
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GWG I was using your FFPC plugin to get ideas on how to add to something I needed to get running quickly
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petermolnar glad it helped :)
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GWG petermolnar: I'm not sure I want to do much in the way of caching plugin writing.
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GWG https://github.com/dshanske/nginx-cache-control
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GWG If you are interested
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petermolnar approaching from nginx is another way, the issue is that many of the WordPress installations out there is still under apache
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GWG Well, this is a specific use case. Many people using fastcgi caching under Nginx install the nginx-cache-purge module.
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petermolnar true
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GWG This is based on something someone came up with to avoid it.
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GWG You set a header to, when used, invalidate the cache
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GWG So, no one had a plugin for that
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GWG petermolnar: Hiccup?
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petermolnar ctrl+w on a wrong window :
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GWG Oh
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GWG But, either way, I need to write up that technique. I don't think many people use it.
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petermolnar neither do I
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GWG I wonder why. It works.
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petermolnar probably no one thought about it earlier
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petermolnar but the idea is nice, although I'd restrict that access somehow
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GWG To send the header?
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petermolnar if anyone case use a header to invalidate an entry it could be used for ddos
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GWG Yes. So far, no one has, but if it becomes more popular...
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petermolnar my guess would be that no big fish used it yet, so no attack based on this yet
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GWG I have to look at it to figure out how to restrict it.
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GWG Nginx doesn't support nested ifs. They hate ifs in general
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aaronpk ping
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Loqi aaronpk: KartikPrabhu left you a message 4 hours, 21 minutes ago: indieauth.com seems to be down. getting the "welcome to nginix page"
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Loqi pong
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: it looks fine to me?
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petermolnar aaronpk it's running now, it was dead for a few of us
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petermolnar aaronpk it's looking sick again forme
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aaronpk sick?
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aaronpk I don't think it would show the "welcome to nginx" page if it's down. it would show "bad gateway" or some other error
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petermolnar I've been waiting on GET indieauth.com for a long time, no error, but no page either
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@tljohnso "Hack Education Top Ed-Tech Trends of 2014" \\the IndieWeb http://2014trends.hackeducation.com/indie.html (twitter.com/_/status/545224429224353792)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /2015/Cambridge (+62) "adding myself to interested" (view diff)
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@michielbdejong RT @benwerd: A real pleasure to meet with @mycozycloud. What a superb platform. #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/545225195519492096)
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@elfpavlik RT @benwerd: A real pleasure to meet with @mycozycloud. What a superb platform. #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/545226403894292480)
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@theboxfactory Pre-New Years resolution: Upgrade @withknown to the latest release from this alpha release. #withknown #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/545226451511812098)
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@reinergaertner Ein schneller Test mit known und dem Indieweb. #experimental (twitter.com/_/status/545227630337740800)
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@fdevillamil Great time today with @MyCozyCloud people and @benwerd in Paris. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/545232904763494400)
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@bart_mertens RT @kevinmarks: @SaraJChipps https://indieauth.com/ will emulate openid for you. That's what I use now #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/545235692251783168)
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2014-12-17-homebrew-website-club (+13) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme wonder if its worth noting dandyid.org on the wiki
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ben_thatmustbeme for example http://www.dandyid.org/id/dissolve
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ben_thatmustbeme whatis dandyid
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ben_thatmustbeme what is dandyid
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "dandyid" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=dandyid
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@jgarber ★ “Open-Sourcing My Webmention Service” – http://sixtwothree.org/posts/open-sourcing-my-webmention-service (twitter.com/_/status/545241533210189824)
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snarfed hugoroyd: i'm looking at your bridgy q now
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snarfed btw, looks like ssl on https://ampoliros.net/2014/unfortunately-time-has-stopped is unhappy
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snarfed firefox says the cert is only for edge.ampoliros.net
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hugoroyd snarfed: yeah, i'm going to change that before the end of the year
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hugoroyd snarfed: thanks for looking, if you need help from me/info, just ask
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ben_thatmustbeme hey adactio, any idea why huffduffer isn't pulling in any of my rel=me links? https://huffduffer.com/benroberts
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snarfed so, bridgy finds benwerd's original post on werd.io and sends responses back because it sees http://werd.io/ in his twitter profile, crawls it, and finds rel-syndication links
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snarfed hugoroyd: it's not doing that for you in this case because ampoliros.net isn't in your twitter profile
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snarfed details: https://www.brid.gy/about#link
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hugoroyd snarfed: ha, that's annoying!
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snarfed hugoroyd: :P i'm open to feedback!
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hugoroyd snarfed: does it work if i just add it in the description?
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snarfed hugoroyd: i don't think so right now, but that's a good feature request. i'll check
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hugoroyd :-)
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@chrismessina RT @jgarber: ★ “Open-Sourcing My Webmention Service” – http://sixtwothree.org/posts/open-sourcing-my-webmention-service (twitter.com/_/status/545244182369927169)
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adactio ben_thatmustbeme: Hmmm ...I don't know why Huffduffer isn't seeing your rel="me" links. Very odd. I'll look into it.
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Loqi adactio: tantek left you a message on 10/21 at 5:40pm: perhaps the answer to the PWC/PSL dilemma/confusion is simple. Always post more content on the original on your own site, always link to the original since there is always more content there.
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Loqi adactio: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message on 12/16 at 11:51am: any chance you can look in to why huffduffer isn't pulling in my "Elsewhere Links" from ben.thatmustbe.me
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@dansodergren RT @jgarber: ★ “Open-Sourcing My Webmention Service” – http://sixtwothree.org/posts/open-sourcing-my-webmention-service (twitter.com/_/status/545245672661090305)
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@elfpavlik RT @jgarber: ★ “Open-Sourcing My Webmention Service” – http://sixtwothree.org/posts/open-sourcing-my-webmention-service (twitter.com/_/status/545248665909346304)
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@evandroinada RT @jgarber: ★ “Open-Sourcing My Webmention Service” – http://sixtwothree.org/posts/open-sourcing-my-webmention-service (twitter.com/_/status/545251164670136320)
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davidjohnmead.com edited /Known (+1855) "/* Transition from WordPress */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, i have been getting brid.gy backfeed for both with and without a trailing slash on my posts
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@adactioLinks Open-Sourcing My Webmention Service — http://sixtwothree.org http://sixtwothree.org/posts/open-sourcing-my-webmention-service (twitter.com/_/status/545263399584931840)
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme, isn't that good?
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@MyCozyCloud RT @benwerd: A real pleasure to meet with @mycozycloud. What a superb platform. #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/545264693254705152)
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@MyCozyCloud RT @fdevillamil: Great time today with @MyCozyCloud people and @benwerd in Paris. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/545264943285538816)
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ben_thatmustbeme GWG, its picking the others up as just mentions (which is a problem on my side), but if you look at https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/facebook/14305603/10101270139267664/752481179
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ben_thatmustbeme view source, has both with and without the slash, so it makes sense to send it twice, but why does it have both?
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GWG I misunderstood. I thought you meant it was sending it whether it had or not, not twice.
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme: it is probably finding one directly in the body of your tweet and the other one based on the u-syndication links you publish
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kylewm although I don't see where it would be getting without the slash
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, maybe
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm joing going to always trim the trailing / off on my end when i receive mentions
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ben_thatmustbeme i need to go through and do the same for all permalinks
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snarfed ben_thatmustbeme: sorry for the trouble! yeah, that can definitely be confusing
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snarfed (in practice they're usually the same page, but technically they are different URLs, so bridgy's conservative)
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snarfed ben_thatmustbeme: kylewm: my guess is actually that it's a redirect. if bridgy follows a redirect, it keeps both URLs in case the first was a short link
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kylewm snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 61 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme what exactly is the standard, remove the trailing / or leave it?
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snarfed ben_thatmustbeme: not sure there is a "standard"
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ben_thatmustbeme s/standard/convention
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: what exactly is the convention, remove the trailing / or leave it?
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snarfed and in your case, actually i'm not sure where bridgy did find the url without slash. the fb post, short link, and u-url all have the slash.
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snarfed meh
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snarfed looking at a poll log, PPD only sees the slash versions of ben_thatmustbeme's post URLs: https://brid-gy.appspot.com/log?start_time=1418796036&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyGgsSDEZhY2Vib29rUGFnZSIIMTQzMDU2MDMM
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snarfed so, still a mystery
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snarfed …
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snarfed on an unrelated note, http://retrogit.com/ is a lot of fun
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tantek sees /URL_design questions
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: in general, if you can't justify something, drop it.
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snarfed tantek: definitely! …in this case though, we're not sure that ben_thatmustbeme is doing anything wrong/redundant
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tantek what's ben_thatmustbeme doing in particular?
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ben_thatmustbeme not sure exactly why, but brid.gy is sending me webmentions twice
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ben_thatmustbeme once with the slash, once without
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snarfed (we're still not sure where bridgy is finding the one without)
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: regardless, as the receiver, per redirects, you're supposed to handle it
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tantek bridgy's behavior in this case, while likely suboptimal / inefficient, is not "wrong" per se.
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: citation for you're supposed to handle it: https://indiewebcamp.com/webmention##after%20following%20redirects
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snarfed tantek: ben_thatmustbeme agreed, earlier
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davidjohnmead.com edited /Known (+3) "/* Steps */" (view diff)
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davidjohnmead.com edited /Known () "(-907) /* Plugins */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme also, my code doesn't return it as a redirect, it returns the same content as i treat them as the same URL
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gRegor` I would recommend picking one or the other and redirecting.
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hugoroyd Loqi: ben_thatmustbeme: http://danielmiessler.com/study/hyperlink_trailing_slash/
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aaronpk "DandyID lets you easily collect all of your online profiles in one convenient place and allows people to discover the real verified you across the web." <-- isn't that what your own website is for?
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aaronpk also they have three patents? wut?
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tantek what is DandyID?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "DandyID" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=DandyID
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, i saw that, didn't look in to what the patents are on yet
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aaronpk https://www.google.com/patents/US20100042680 "Internet identity graph and social graph management system and method"
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tantek aaronpk - you should know better than to look into patents
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ben_thatmustbeme a more interesting issue though is now i'll need to look in to php-comments, a trailing / vs not trailing slash leads it to misinterpret it as a mention instead of a comment
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ben_thatmustbeme though i suppose that would be correct
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aaronpk "trailing slash" is misleading. they are completely separate URLs
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ben_thatmustbeme i believe i ALWAYS show with a /, but requesting without the / does not do a redirect
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ben_thatmustbeme it returns 200
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aaronpk the only exception is a raw domain has an implied slash since you can't have a full URL with no path
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aaronpk e.g. http://aaronparecki.com is actually http://aaronparecki.com/
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aaronpk otherwise you can't assume the URLs are the same
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tantek aaronpk - and now that you've posted publicly about one in particular that mentions "social" which thus likely overlaps the W3C Social Web WG, you're obligated (per your agreement to the group) to disclose to the WG that you found that.
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tantek s/likely/possibly
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Loqi tantek meant to say: aaronpk - and now that you've posted publicly about one in particular that mentions "social" which thus possibly overlaps the W3C Social Web WG, you're obligated (per your agreement to the group) to disclose to the WG that you found that.
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kylewm patents, because who wouldn't want to read technical documents written by non-technical lawyers
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aaronpk tantek: heh oops
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tantek aaronpk - as a CTO, you should know better than that :P
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tantek unfortunately no heh about it - it can potentially be quite a painful mistake
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme: it's bridgy's markup that differentiates the slash as a mention, php-comments is doing the right thing
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aaronpk it appears to be a patent for their website. the figures document their website signup flow and such
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kylewm bridgy considers one the canonical original and the other a u-mention
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tantek aaronpk - you're not listening. "you should know better than to look ***into*** patents"
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aaronpk well it's too late now that i've opened it
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tantek you're not helping by writing about it
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tantek and re: "too late" - I refer you to https://twitter.com/t/status/542814233919234049
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@t Absolute comparison arguments are of little utility. E.g. * two sides to … * either … or * fair & balanced #spectrums (ttk.me t4Z_1) (twitter.com/_/status/542814233919234049)
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tantek e.g. in this case being "too late" or implied, not.
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tantek such absolute reasoning in real world situations often leads to errors in justification of actions (or lack of action)
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tantek aaronpk, at this point I'm pretty sure the only remaining obligation you have is to email the Social Web WG with a heads-up about it, since you publicly admitted to discovering it and that it mentions "social" and "web".
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aaronpk okay
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tantek also as an op in this channel and indiewebcamp admin - if anyone else brings up anything about patents or a patent, I expect you to respond similarly as I did above to your statements.
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aaronpk those obligations are specifically because of my W3C involvement though, yes? or do we need to worry about patent disclosures on the research going into the indiewebcamp wiki?
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tantek we should likely make a similar policy about avoiding that on the indiewebcamp wiki as well
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Loqi I agree
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tantek I believe we have such a policy on microformats.org already
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davidmead @tantek is whistle (url shortner) easy for a noob like me to get up & running?
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tantek it is, only in that it is very little code, the hard part is your own /URL_design
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davidjohnmead.com edited /Known (+167) "/* Steps */" (view diff)
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davidmead @tantek as i’m kind of starting from scratch with the Known install i want to get ahead of this while i can. i used the Hum WP plugin which was really nice.
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tantek davidmead - from my understanding of Known's /URL_design - it's unlikely to work
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davidmead @tantek :-(
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tantek Whistle works for permalinks which use dates, post type, and number of that post type, and specifically DO NOT depend on the slug
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davidmead @tantek hmm. guess I’ll have to keep investigating then.
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /User:Ben.thatmustbe.me (+78) "/* Postly */" (view diff)
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kylewm davidmead: this is kind of a clever url shortener hack that doesn't require code https://gist.github.com/lucasgonze/c5d935823ef17f5ffa3f
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davidmead thanks @kylewm. i’ll take a look
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bret wow keybase has a ton of tech people now, lots of overlap with my twitter network
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davidjohnmead.com edited /Known (+454) "/* Steps */" (view diff)
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davidmead @tantek let me know if this is what you were looking for https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?diff=16085&oldid=16083&rcid=16102. hopefully it helps.
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davidjohnmead.com edited /Known (-1) "/* Issues */" (view diff)
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: re: "my code doesn't return it as a redirect, it returns the same content as i treat them as the same URL" - I agree with gRegor` - you should redirect rather than serving duplicate content - which gets penalized by search engines
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tantek aaronpk re: trailing slash not existing, the example you gave of http://aaronparecki.com vs. http://aaronparecki.com/ is not the same as ben_thatmustbeme's permalinks
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aaronpk correct
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aaronpk I was saying http://aaronparecki.com is an incomplete URL since there is no path component
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tantek yes
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aaronpk so it's okay to imply (or add) the slash
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tantek I believe that's what the URL standard says to do to "fix" that URL
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tantek davidmead: that's a great start on Transition from Wordpress
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tantek minor nit - the subheads should indicate their context since they get document wide permalinks
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davidmead thanks @tantek. i’ve bookmarked the page, so i’ll update it as i go along.
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tantek e.g. s/Steps/Steps from WordPress
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davidmead i’ll edit that later'
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tantek I can take care of it :)
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kylewm.com edited /Template:davidmead (-4) "remove extra .com" (view diff)
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davidmead thanks @tantek :-)
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: HWC tonight? I could go either way on it at the moment, honestly.
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tantek.com edited /Known (+60) "/* Transition from WordPress */ specific subheads" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu gRegor`: upto you.
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tantek gRegor`: last HWC of the year!
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tantek take a HWC Chicago holiday photo!
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KartikPrabhu haha!
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gRegor` Haha
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gRegor` Yeah, guess we should do it. Work has me stressed out at the moment is all. Hopefully that passes. :)
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gRegor` I can bring my Santa hat
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KartikPrabhu lol. keep me posted
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KartikPrabhu but maybe we should decide and update wiki
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gRegor` We'll do it.
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KartikPrabhu you never know who'll try to show up
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tantek awesome!
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tantek also - promote it with all the usual Chicago folks as the last HWC meetup of the year!
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gRegor` We *are* the brute sq-- I mean, the usual Chicago folks. :)
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gRegor` I'll post a note, though. Maybe Denton will make it finally!
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tantek and ping Mari too!
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gRegor` Yep
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gRegor` Mari is actually friends with Marcy, who provides our venue.
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tantek oh cool
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2014-12-17-homebrew-website-club (+10) "/* URLs */ Chi" (view diff)
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gRegor` She's not made it yet, though. Rather busy, I take it.
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Loqi [mention] gRegor Morrill posted 'Last Homebrew Website Club of the year tonight! https://www.facebook.com/events/744818568939803/ cc @pitchdesign @marihuertas @dentonjacobs' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-12-17-homebrew-website-club (/notes/2014/12/17/2/)
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gRegor` Ooh, that's the first I've noticed the new [mention] thingy. Nice.
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gRegor` Annnd messed up the link.
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tantek the new bridgy texts are quite nice
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tantek which link?
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aaronpk tantek: the new text is not specific to bridgy either!
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gRegor` Opened a link and forgot to close it.
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tantek aaronpk - cool! is that via webmention.io then? or indiewebcamp.com?
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aaronpk webmention.io is doing all the parsing
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@gRegorLove Last Homebrew Website Club of the year tonight! https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-12-17-homebrew-website-club https://www.facebook.com/events/744818568939803/ cc @pitchdesign @marihuertas @dentonjacobs (twitter.com/_/status/545309006626320384)
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aaronpk and that sentence is being returned in the webmention.io API now too
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tantek very cool
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snarfed thanks tantek! credit to aaronpk for taking my initial tweaks and improving them
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snarfed (the brid-gy.appspot… link notifs before were pretty ugly and annoying)
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@killerog Very interesting idea, this Indie Web concept. Podcast with @adactio here: http://workingdraft.de/200/ and site here: https://indiewebcamp.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/545309255612784640)
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gRegor` aaronpk: Should it parse the full URL instead of just the path? "/notes/2014/12/17/2/"
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aaronpk gRegor`: what's the permalink for that post? let me take a look
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gRegor` http://gregorlove.com/notes/2014/12/17/2/ My u-url doesn't include the domain.
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aaronpk ah that's an issue with the ruby parser, I opened an issue a couple days ago: https://github.com/G5/microformats2/issues/32
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gRegor` k
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aaronpk the ruby parser is slightly behind the php one, although has some nice convenience methods for dealing with it in code
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bret are there abstract parsing languages that the different libraries can share?
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aaronpk like sax or something?
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aaronpk no that's not what i was thinknig of
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KartikPrabhu lol sax
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Loqi [bridgy] Margot Harrington replied '@gregorlove @marihuertas @dentonjacobs ha! That sounds so final! I'm sick though :( so I'll be on the couch, keeping my germs to myself.' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-12-17-homebrew-website-club (https://twitter.com/pitchdesign/status/545312113426984960)
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kylewm bret: want to write a reference parser in C that all the languages justneed to write bindings for?
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aaronpk that would do it
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aaronpk isn't that how most of the json parsers work?
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bret kylewm: as long as it also compiles to js
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snarfed sounds like libxml[2]
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aaronpk libmf2
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snarfed ah, for mf2
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aaronpk would probably use libxml for the html parsing
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KartikPrabhu why don't every language bind to php-mf2 or mf2py ?
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aaronpk that seems not possible
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KartikPrabhu hmmm ok
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KartikPrabhu in any case, multiple implementations are a good thing
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aaronpk i mean it wuld require a node developer to have a php runtime for example
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@edsu RT @t: Happy 11 Years of XFN! As predicted last year http://tantek.com/2013/349/b1/xfn-10th-anniversary #indieweb readers now here https://indiewebcamp.com/reader (ttk.me t4Ze2) (twitter.com/_/status/545323934774984704)
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@loicmathaud Présentation de demain @WebEnVert "Présentation de l'IndieWeb" terminée. Y aura plus qu'á ! (twitter.com/_/status/545324121903874048)
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Loqi [bridgy] Gregor Morrill RSVPed yes to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-12-17-homebrew-website-club (https://facebook.com/744818568939803#27301982)
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Loqi [bridgy] Ed Summers retweeted a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/reader (https://twitter.com/edsu/status/545323934774984704)
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kartikprabhu.com edited /events/2014-12-17-homebrew-website-club (+13) "/* RSVP */ me!" (view diff)
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tantek a good counter-example to abolutist thinking (e.g. about security) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_in_depth_%28computing%29
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snarfed defenseindepth++
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Loqi defenseindepth has 1 karma
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Loqi [bridgy] Licha amalia zaidan favorited a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/reader (https://twitter.com/t/status/544725910533206016)
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aaronpk snarfed: here is an example of what I was talking about ^
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aaronpk because the URL in parens doesn't have the URL of the person who RT'd
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snarfed aaronpk: oh sure. i still agree; for twitter, we should show their handle
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aaronpk ok cool
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snarfed i think i still vote for name instead of domain in the native (non-bridgy) case, but i could be swayed
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aaronpk I think I agree. I want to find more exmaples of what that'd look like though
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tantek is this use-case documented somewhere we can understand the context / iterations of design?
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tantek since you're arguing "for name instead of domain"
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tantek what is webmention.io?
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Loqi webmention.io is an open-source project and hosted service for receiving webmentions and pingbacks on behalf of your indieweb site https://indiewebcamp.com/webmention.io
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aaronpk did we have a github thread going for this?
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tantek perhaps on /webmention.io#design ?
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tantek thread is no bueno. need documentation of current state.
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tantek current state in this case is, current understood/known "best practice"
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aaronpk but the current state is in flux!
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tantek that's the point of capturing it on the wiki!
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tantek so you can cite previous iterations
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tantek while you deliberately evolve it
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tantek flux is an even stronger reason to capture current state
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tantek otherwise all those kinds of discussions/reasonings are lost to minds that came up with them
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aaronpk i think it's interesting that we're essentially creating an activity stream in sentences, but without any machine-readable markup or any intent on machines parsing the sentence
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aaronpk instead we're deriving a human-readable sentence from the mf2 properties that exist on the object
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tantek perhaps implying it may be possible to make that a reversible transform
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tantek do you have documentation of that "deriving" somewhere?
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aaronpk no, just code
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tantek like /h-entry_to_text ?
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tantek is that a reasonable framing and place to start that documentation ?
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tantek of at least what your existing code does?
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aaronpk yes i believe so
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aaronpk we are taking h-entries and turning them into a human-readable sentence describing the h-entry
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tantek (took me that long to even remotely understand the scope of what you were doing - to come up with a suggested page name for it!)
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tantek a-ha you just wrote the dfn for the page!
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tantek now stub it!
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aaronpk here is the origins: https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io/issues/22
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aaronparecki.com created /h-entry_to_text (+572) "stub with dfn and some examples" (view diff)
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snarfed more discussion in https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io/pull/33
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tantek.com edited /h-entry_to_text (+145) "subheads, likes vs replies, see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /h-entry_to_text (+151) "rsvps, see also github thread" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /POSSE (+79) "/* POSSE Destinations */ Plain Text Notes destinations could use h-entry to text, remove Articles section out of date todo empty section" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk, snarfed, is this a reasonable use-case / justification for h-entry to text? https://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE#Plain_Text_Notes
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aaronparecki.com edited /POSSE (+26) "/* Plain Text Notes */ also push notifications" (view diff)
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snarfed tantek: hmm, not sure that one is quite right. the existing IRC notif use case seems like the clearest so far
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aaronpk maybe push notifications is not the best terminology. mobile notifications?
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aaronparecki.com edited /POSSE (+2) "/* Plain Text Notes */" (view diff)
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snarfed "just notification, it's cleaner"
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aaronpk specifically thinking of this: https://indiewebcamp.com/mention-app
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tantek like that list of things that popup on your mobile device in locked mode?
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aaronpk yes
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tantek is there a name for those?
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aaronpk usually push notifications
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aaronpk i just didn't wnat to potentially confuse with "PuSH"
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tantek do those show up on people's laptops when theyr'e in screen saver lock mode?
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aaronpk but iOS, Android and Windows all call them push notifications
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aaronpk I believe OSX has it too, also called push notifications
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tantek yes - the "push" borderline plumbing
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tantek or rather it's an orthogonal aspect
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tantek to the visual presentation
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aaronpk in that case the "push" implies realtime
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aaronpk not plumbing
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tantek sure
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tantek might as well just call them "interruptive notifications"
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aaronpk ha
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tantek by function rather than aspect
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bret aaronpk: yeah safari, chrome and FF support web notifications for open pages, but os x also supports apple push to desktop from web now I think
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tantek is growl another example of this?
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bret so the website does not need to be open
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aaronpk growl notifications are usually not generated remotely, so it's borderline
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bret growl was replaced by notification center i think
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tantek growl was a 3rd party thing
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tantek how was it "replaced by" then?
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bret right
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aaronpk "made obsolete by"?
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bret well, why use growl when your system has that function now?
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bret yes
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snarfed s/was/is/. it's a *nix thing, not just mac.
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bret oh yeah thats true
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tantek what is growl?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "growl" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=growl
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tantek snarfed, you seem to know more about growl ;)
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aaronpk anyway the thing people usually associate with "push notification" is that an app can send a message to your device without the app being open, and the notifications usually come from a remote service, not generated by the device
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bret aaronpk: that!
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tantek so a "remote service" "can send a message to your device without the [remote service's] app being open" then?
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aaronpk yes
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tantek what is a notification?
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Loqi notifications in the context of the IndieWeb refer to all forms and ways that an independent web site can receive a message indicating something of interest (server notifications), and potentially relay that information (preferably in realtime) to one or more devices used by the owner of that site (client notifications) https://indiewebcamp.com/notification
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tantek what is a client notification?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "client notification" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=client+notification
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tantek huh
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tantek what is a mobile notification?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "mobile notification" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=mobile+notification
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aaronpk now i'm leaning towards just keeping it as "push notification"
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aaronpk beacause nobody really says mobile notification
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aaronpk and we can deal with talking about PuSH the plumbing explicitily
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tantek aaronpk but https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?diff=16096&oldid=16095&rcid=16113
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aaronpk yeah i'm reconsidering the usefulness of that edit
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aaronparecki.com edited /POSSE (-28) "Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Aaronparecki.com|Aaronparecki.com]] ([[User talk:Aaronparecki.com|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:Tantek.com|Tantek.com]]" (view diff)
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aaronpk oops that wasn't what i meant either
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aaronparecki.com edited /POSSE (+44) "add back push notifications" (view diff)
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aaronpk bah okay i need to eat lunch
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tantek good call. simple errors as an indicator of likely suboptimal reduced blood glucose levels.
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bret.io edited /events/2014-12-17-homebrew-website-club (+11) "/* URLs */" (view diff)
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tantek what are push notifications?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "push notifications" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=push+notifications
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tommorris.org created /growl (+183) "new page" (view diff)
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tommorris.org edited /growl (-6) "oddball unicode symbols" (view diff)
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tommorris.org edited /notification (+442) "added a section on Distraction, linked to [[growl]]" (view diff)
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@t Join me at Homebrew Website Club tonight - last of 2014! 18:30 #indieweb meetup @MozSF @ESRIPDX https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-12-17-homebrew-website-club (ttk.me t4Zg1) (twitter.com/_/status/545363572575195136)
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tommorris.org created /GPX (+747) "new page" (view diff)
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aaronpk oh dear
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@ELitwicki RT @jmcclurken: "Hack Education Top Ed-Tech Trends of 2014" \\the IndieWeb http://2014trends.hackeducation.com/indie.html (twitter.com/_/status/545367088802844672)
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@chrismessina One domain per child. http://2014trends.hackeducation.com/indie.html /by @audreywatters via @NancyWhite cc @benwerd #DataPositive #EdTech #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/545367319979905024)