#indiewebcamp 2014-12-17

2014-12-17 UTC
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GWG
!tell snarfed Likely the new server. I wrote the message to test it.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi
snarfed: GWG left you a message 3 minutes ago: Likely the new server. I wrote the message to test it.
ezvirtual and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
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@mistermac2008
RT @thierrymarianne: @benwerd talks abt @withknown used by students to own their contents & syndicate them out #IndieWeb via @MozillaParis
(twitter.com/_/status/545026767426052096)
lukebrooker, mdik, KartikPrabhu, j12t, prtksxna, reedstrm, carlo_au, tilgovi, snarfed and frzn joined the channel
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GWG
I'm not sure what the problem was, but I think I fixed it
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snarfed
GWG: yup, you did
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GWG
snarfed: I guess I need to make some server changes still.
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prtksxna
Hello o/
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prtksxna
GWG: o/
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prtksxna
I recently came across IndieWebCamp. Its answers so many questions I've had
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prtksxna
I am working on making my own website better for now…
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GWG
What is your site?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "your site" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=your+site
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prtksxna
Just my personal site - http://prtksxna.com/
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prtksxna
There is a lot of do for now. I don't have microformats set-up correctly
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GWG
What do you want to do next?
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prtksxna
I am not sure about RSS spamming. I have some post types that are pretty small and I am not sure if I want someone who is subscribed to my feed to see all of them. I know that kind of beats the purpose but I feel that it might be TMI
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prtksxna
GWG: Get the basics right first. I know I want it to be on top of Wordpress but I am unsure of my current approach - https://github.com/prtksxna/feedme/issues
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GWG
Well, welcome aboard.
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GWG
Always happy to have another WordPress user onboard
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prtksxna
What do you use to consume RSS feeds?
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GWG
At the moment, TT-RSS
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GWG
But there are Indieweb feed readers being worked on
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prtksxna
I see, do you face the the RSS issue I mentioned?
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GWG
I run my own installation
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prtksxna
I am also unsure of how to syndicate certain kinds of content like check-ins…
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GWG
prtksxna: It is something many people are working on.
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GWG
I'm not sure who is working on Check-Ins for WordPress. I started a project but didn't take it far.
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prtksxna
That is good to know, any projects in particular worth following
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prtksxna
I wrote check-in support for my theme but I am unsure of syndication on RSS
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GWG
Well, a lot of individual work is documented on the wiki
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prtksxna
I saw some of it. Will take a deeper look over the weekend.
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prtksxna
Thanks GWG o/
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GWG
prtksxna: I had to stop for a bit to write a new cache invalidation plugin, but I have a lot of irons in the fire.
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bret
hey prtksxna welcome!
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bret
bb tomorrow
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Loqi
bret: snarfed left you a message 8 hours, 51 minutes ago: looks like it might be half done already. e.g. https://charlesleifer.com/blog/a-flask-front-end-and-chrome-extension-for-youtube-dl/ among others
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bret
ill check it out snarfed!
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KartikPrabhu
hm more Wordpress people... good!
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GWG
KartikPrabhu: Makes me think I should be advocating more
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KartikPrabhu
GWG: the best way to advocate IMO is to have a great site of your own that does things
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GWG
I'm working on it. Slowly
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KartikPrabhu
prtksxna: nice theme on your site. neat and clean
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prtksxna
KartikPrabhu: Thanks, I finished it recently. Still needs a lot of work :)
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@kevinmarks
@SaraJChipps https://indieauth.com/ will emulate openid for you. That's what I use now #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/545101343971872768)
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@deburca
@StartupLJackson but he'd be in a state of conflict between using medium for his blog or going #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/545111462948392960)
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@kartik_prabhu
@deburca why would anyone have a conflict between Medium and #indieweb ?
(twitter.com/_/status/545124858816778240)
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KartikPrabhu
ok might have started an argument there ^
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prtksxna
I could never understand the point of Medium. Its like wordpress.com with content curation, right?
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KartikPrabhu
prtksxna: to be fair it offers a much better UI for posting as well as "comments"
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KartikPrabhu
but it is not a choice between Medium and indieweb if you want to own your data
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prtksxna
Its interesting how things become popular because they get a fresh coat of paint.
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KartikPrabhu
prtksxna: and it is not like wordpress in that you can't host your own instance of wordpress
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KartikPrabhu
sorry you can of wordpress but not Medium
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prtksxna
That is why I said wordpress.com
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KartikPrabhu
prtksxna: yup I did catch that :)
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KartikPrabhu
but still Medium has slicker UI and so on...
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prtksxna
applies paint to #indieweb to make it slicker
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KartikPrabhu
not needed :P
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prtksxna
That is what I hoped. But it isn't true if the masses are to adopt.
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prtksxna
Isn't that what you were saying?
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KartikPrabhu
prtksxna: in my own cynical view masses seems to adopt whatever is new and shiny
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KartikPrabhu
to plug my own stuff you can have paragraph level comments on the indieweb see: https://github.com/kartikprabhu/marginalia and an example post is: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia
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KartikPrabhu
take that Medium
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prtksxna
KartikPrabhu: i was looking at this yesterday :)
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prtksxna
Realized only now that those tiny icons were clickable :|
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KartikPrabhu
haha! it isn't obvious like most UI elements/icons you make up
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prtksxna
Too obscure for me. And that's when I was actively trying to look for one.
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KartikPrabhu
but I tried to make them similar to Medium's icons and also the "accepted" icon for comments
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prtksxna
Oh, I am not familiar with medium icons either.
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KartikPrabhu
prtksxna: love to have feedback. if you are not indieweb enough you can always comment using Twitter on: https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/483362431746322435
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KartikPrabhu
he! Loqi avoids G+!
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Loqi
who, me?
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prtksxna
KartikPrabhu: That was all the feedback I have :) Sorry, not indieweb enough yet and don't want to use Twitter either.
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KartikPrabhu
fair enough! good feedback nevertheless. I did realise that those icons might not be enough. but not sure how to solve the problem
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KartikPrabhu
any suggestions are welcome
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prtksxna
KartikPrabhu: Maybe have them lined up on one side? That way I'll always know where to look to find one, instead of having to jump from one paragraph ending another.
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KartikPrabhu
prtksxna: you feel that the diff positioning makes them seem irrelevant?
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prtksxna
Not irrelevant, just hard to find. They are also easier to miss because they are just outlines and not a full solid.
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KartikPrabhu
prtksxna: good point. I made the outline because it was more colour-blind friendly. I will think about it!
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prtksxna
KartikPrabhu: Very rare cases of colorblindness cause complete color blindness. If you keep your hues far apart there shouldn't be too much of a problem.
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KartikPrabhu
prtksxna: true. but my site is based on a green-red theme and I did have bear complain about it at indiewebcamp NYC :)
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prtksxna
KartikPrabhu: I usually use http://webaim.org/articles/visual/colorblind to test
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prtksxna
KartikPrabhu: Ah! I am sure we can find a way around that :)
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prtksxna
(btw - see how its usually just one channel that is impaired)
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KartikPrabhu
that would be the best! I am open to suggestion, being not a web-dev
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prtksxna
So you just want one normal and one active state, is that right?
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KartikPrabhu
prtksxna: yes. I do understand the mechanics of colour blindness but that does not mean I understand how to get around it :)
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KartikPrabhu
prtksxna: yup
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prtksxna
Aha! Just switch it. Keeping it solid will make it noticeable and if its only outline on click people already know where it is.
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KartikPrabhu
prtksxna: hmm that is very good. the solid state will bring attention to it and people who have cliked are more likely to know that it will be in outline mode
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KartikPrabhu
prtksxna++
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Loqi
prtksxna has 1 karma
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prtksxna
hi-fives KartikPrabhu
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KartikPrabhu
hi-fives back
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prtksxna
KartikPrabhu: For a person who doesn't do much web-dev your website looks great. I like how crisp the type is :)
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KartikPrabhu
well the only web-dev I do is my own site :P and thanks!
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KartikPrabhu
prtksxna: speaking of which you should have an about page on your site :)
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prtksxna
KartikPrabhu: I should have a link to it :) http://prtksxna.com/about/
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KartikPrabhu
and i should have tried that at least :P
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julian``
hey any of you guys work with laravel much
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prtksxna
I should also update it
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Loqi
I agree
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KartikPrabhu
oh sweet Mumbai! I am from there too
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KartikPrabhu
based in Chicago at the moment for stuff
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prtksxna
I am from Noida (near Delhi) and I live in Goa :)
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julian``
http://prtksxna.com/work/pixel-art-of-a-calendar/ this is awesome, reminds me of habbo hotel
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prtksxna
julian``: Haboo Hotel!! Is that…the game that 4chan once took over?
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prtksxna
julian``: Also, thank you :)
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julian``
yeah i think so they raided that site a lot when i used to play when i was younger lol
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KartikPrabhu
oh boy 4chan!
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prtksxna
My internet connection was too bad to play it when it came out. I only heard of it much later. Looked like fun.
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prtksxna
The wiki wasn't lying when it said that this channel was friendly :)
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KartikPrabhu
prtksxna: people here write the wiki :P
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prtksxna
Note to self: People lie, wikis dont :P
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prtksxna
Wikis can't, rather.
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KartikPrabhu
"wikis don't lie" new Shakira hit single
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KartikPrabhu
lol! I don't think most people here would get that symbol
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prtksxna
A man holding his head?
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KartikPrabhu
prtksxna: you do indieweb most things. you should get on the microformats+webmention thing
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KartikPrabhu
what is microformats?
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Loqi
microformats are extensions to HTML for marking up people, organizations, events, locations, blog posts, products, reviews, resumes, recipes etc https://indiewebcamp.com/microformats
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KartikPrabhu
what is webmention?
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Loqi
Webmention is a simple way to notify any URL when you link to it on your site https://indiewebcamp.com/Webmention
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prtksxna
I've known about these technologies for quite some time now (microformats at least)
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KartikPrabhu
prtksxna: to be fair microformats has been most used here on the indieweb to actually do something (like comments) rather than pander to search engines and SEO people
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prtksxna
Works takes up a lot of time. I'll probably get everything done over the holidays.
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KartikPrabhu
yup. I get that compeltely
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julian``
haha
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prtksxna
I wish there were meetups here, in Goa too
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prtksxna
I am coming to SF next month, I'll miss the event happening in December :(
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KartikPrabhu
prtksxna: if you find one another interested party you can have a home brew website club
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KartikPrabhu
there is one in SF every 2 weeks
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prtksxna
Oh. Let's hope I catch one :)
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KartikPrabhu
yeah keep a look out for it. usually tantek and kylewm are at the SF one
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prtksxna
Too many new things/people!
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prtksxna
shuts down
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KartikPrabhu
c'est la vie
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KartikPrabhu
judaspriest! it is 3am here. must sleep
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KartikPrabhu
good night Loqi
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KartikPrabhu
and others
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Loqi
buenas noches
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KartikPrabhu
o/ prtksxna hope to see more of you here
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prtksxna
KartikPrabhu: I'll be around!
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prtksxna
GWG: Do you use a plugin to get webmention on WP?
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KartikPrabhu
oh no I haz to answer things on the internetz
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@kartik_prabhu
@deburca Can I host Medium on my domain? Probably not! Which is why I don’t see the conflict with #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/545142915647811586)
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julian``
does anyone know of any free services for managing email on my own domain? like the old outlook and google apps used to allow
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KartikPrabhu
what is email?
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Loqi
Email is a decentralized, non-web messaging transport https://indiewebcamp.com/email
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petermolnar
julian`` by managing mail you mean sending and receiving with your own domain?
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julian``
yeah
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julian``
and setting up new accounts would be cool though im not sure many sites would offer this service for free
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petermolnar
the cleanest way is to have a 5$/month Virtual Private Server from DigitalOcean with a small linux on it with, for example, Postfix + Dovecot
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julian``
my site is already hosted at digitalocean so ill look into postfix and dovecot ty
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petermolnar
I wrote a little semi-tutorial on setting up a mailserver a little while ago: https://petermolnar.eu/linux-tech-coding/debian-lightweight-mailserver-postfix-dovecot-dspam/
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petermolnar
it might help
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KartikPrabhu
julian``: fwiw I use my domain providers service to forward everything to my gmail. not the best indieweb solution but still it workd
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petermolnar
KartikPrabhu you could do that with a postfix + an alias file as well
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KartikPrabhu
petermolnar: oh did not know that. actually I don't know what hose mean even :P
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petermolnar
there are several Mail Transfer Agents ( MTA ) for short for linux; they are the "SMTP" servers, communicating ( sending and receiving ) mails from other hosts
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petermolnar
exim and postfix are the big names, but there are others
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petermolnar
the IMAP servers are to serve the mails to the clients; the big names here are Cyrus and Docevot
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KartikPrabhu
petermolnar: of course. but a less technical alternative would be useful (even for what I've done)
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petermolnar
that has a webGUI for setting these things up
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petermolnar
but it's a bit heavy
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petermolnar
and usually not offered by VPS providers
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petermolnar
and there is also Virtualmin which can manage virtual hosts and mails as well
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petermolnar
I used to use both a long time ago
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KartikPrabhu
petermolnar: since you have eperience you should document those on /email
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petermolnar
experience from ~4 years ago are more or less invalid nowadays :)
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petermolnar
although I can mention them as possible solutions
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KartikPrabhu
yes that would be good too. some documentation is better than none
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petermolnar
if only I could log in to the wiki :/ ( it's always freaking slow for me )
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petermolnar
is it just me or is anyone else having troube loggin in to indieauth?
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KartikPrabhu
on the wiki?
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petermolnar
both the wiki & the indieauth.com site
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julian``
mines freezing up
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KartikPrabhu
oops seems indieauth.com is down
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: indieauth.com seems to be down. getting the "welcome to nginix page"
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KartikPrabhu
!tell aaronpk: indieauth.com seems to be down. getting the "welcome to nginix page"
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@benwerd
Discovering that many wifi hotspots automatically kill large file POSTs, but, eg, Dropbox works. Room for JS chunked uploads? #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/545162748607217664)
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dch
moin, looking at the iwc wiki its possible to login to the wiki via persona. Anybody have more details to share?
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prtksxna
dch: I hear that the auth was down, but I don't know much more.
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dch
aaah ok
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dch
I will try again in the new year :-)
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prtksxna
dch: I am sure it'll get fixed sooner than that :)
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elf-pavlik
dch, AFAIK it uses https://indieauth.com/ so you just need rel="me" link on your website with href="mailto:name@domain.tld"
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elf-pavlik
this way indieauth will offer you mozilla persona as one of available options
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hugoroyd
hello, any known/brid.gy experts here? :)
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hugoroyd
testing known to twitter crossposting, as it was bugging for me recently: https://ampoliros.net/2014/unfortunately-time-has-stopped this one got to twitter, but bridgy is not detecting any responses
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hugoroyd
actually brid.gy tells me " No post links found "
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michielbdejong
hugoroyd: there is indeed no link back from https://twitter.com/hugoroyd/status/545163163726270464 to your site
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hugoroyd
michielbdejong: yeah but i see on other examples that it shuold work anyway
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michielbdejong
hm, not sure how bridgy did that. looks like https://indiewebcamp.com/original-post-discovery would require a link to the original
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hugoroyd
michielbdejong: i'm wondering :-á
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hugoroyd
michielbdejong: does it work on your Known instance?
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hugoroyd
maybe benwerd isn't using bridgy?
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michielbdejong
no, it's not working for me either. maybe i have my bridgy account misconfigured though
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hugoroyd
michielbdejong: i replied ;)
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michielbdejong
on https://www.brid.gy/twitter/michielbdejong# it just says 'failed', different from your error
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hugoroyd
michielbdejong: that's because your own original post was a reply to verge
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hugoroyd
so it's trying to send the mention to the verge
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michielbdejong
but where did it find the original post URL then?
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hugoroyd
michielbdejong: i also replied from known, but it's not showing either :-/
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hugoroyd
michielbdejong: probably on known, i don't see where else
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hugoroyd
michielbdejong: which makes me wondering why it can't always get twitter feedback
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michielbdejong
you think it just scrapes my home page in search of a post with a similar text?
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hugoroyd
no idea
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michielbdejong
or Known tells brid.gy about it?
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michielbdejong
it's mysterious :)
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hugoroyd
yes!
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hugoroyd
michielbdejong: most mysterious is why https://ampoliros.net/2014/testing-known-reply-to-michielbdejongs-known-through-twitter-too-- isn't showing :)
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hugoroyd
michielbdejong: oh, maybe it's trying to send the reply back to the verge too? That'd be confusing
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michielbdejong
it says no end-point found there
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michielbdejong
oh, maybe i know how it works
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michielbdejong
but this is just guessing
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michielbdejong
it could tell my server that there is a reply to my tweet, instead of to my post
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michielbdejong
and Known could then work out which post it was
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michielbdejong
but i'm not even sure if that's allowed in webmention
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hugoroyd
michielbdejong: can you help me file an issue about this?
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hugoroyd
btw michielbdejong ben from known was talking about remotestorage yesterday, but i'm not sure what he was trying to do
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michielbdejong
hugoroyd: you can refer to the irc logs when you file an issue
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michielbdejong
cool! we want to make remotestorage an rfc
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hugoroyd
michielbdejong: any hint what i should describe? what's relevant?
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michielbdejong
I'm also going to offer remoteStorage hosting soon
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hugoroyd
michielbdejong: of course ;)
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michielbdejong
hm, just link to https://www.brid.gy/twitter/hugoroyd# should be enough, actually. And asking why this is not failing for the werd.io post
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@benwerd
A real pleasure to meet with @mycozycloud. What a superb platform. #ownyourdata
(twitter.com/_/status/545213349630185473)
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@NeueB
RT @thierrymarianne: @benwerd talks abt @withknown used by students to own their contents & syndicate them out #IndieWeb via @MozillaParis
(twitter.com/_/status/545214566586912768)
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GWG
prtksxna: Yes. Wordpress Webmention
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GWG
petermolnar: Thank you, by the way
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petermolnar
trying to figure out what did he get the thanks for
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GWG
I was going to tell you
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GWG
I was using your FFPC plugin to get ideas on how to add to something I needed to get running quickly
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petermolnar
glad it helped :)
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GWG
petermolnar: I'm not sure I want to do much in the way of caching plugin writing.
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GWG
If you are interested
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petermolnar
approaching from nginx is another way, the issue is that many of the WordPress installations out there is still under apache
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GWG
Well, this is a specific use case. Many people using fastcgi caching under Nginx install the nginx-cache-purge module.
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GWG
This is based on something someone came up with to avoid it.
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GWG
You set a header to, when used, invalidate the cache
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GWG
So, no one had a plugin for that
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GWG
petermolnar: Hiccup?
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petermolnar
ctrl+w on a wrong window :
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GWG
But, either way, I need to write up that technique. I don't think many people use it.
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petermolnar
neither do I
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GWG
I wonder why. It works.
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petermolnar
probably no one thought about it earlier
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petermolnar
but the idea is nice, although I'd restrict that access somehow
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GWG
To send the header?
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petermolnar
if anyone case use a header to invalidate an entry it could be used for ddos
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GWG
Yes. So far, no one has, but if it becomes more popular...
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petermolnar
my guess would be that no big fish used it yet, so no attack based on this yet
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GWG
I have to look at it to figure out how to restrict it.
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GWG
Nginx doesn't support nested ifs. They hate ifs in general
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Loqi
aaronpk: KartikPrabhu left you a message 4 hours, 21 minutes ago: indieauth.com seems to be down. getting the "welcome to nginix page"
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Loqi
pong
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aaronpk
KartikPrabhu: it looks fine to me?
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petermolnar
aaronpk it's running now, it was dead for a few of us
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petermolnar
aaronpk it's looking sick again forme
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aaronpk
I don't think it would show the "welcome to nginx" page if it's down. it would show "bad gateway" or some other error
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petermolnar
I've been waiting on GET indieauth.com for a long time, no error, but no page either
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /2015/Cambridge (+62) "adding myself to interested"
(view diff)
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@michielbdejong
RT @benwerd: A real pleasure to meet with @mycozycloud. What a superb platform. #ownyourdata
(twitter.com/_/status/545225195519492096)
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@elfpavlik
RT @benwerd: A real pleasure to meet with @mycozycloud. What a superb platform. #ownyourdata
(twitter.com/_/status/545226403894292480)
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@theboxfactory
Pre-New Years resolution: Upgrade @withknown to the latest release from this alpha release. #withknown #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/545226451511812098)
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@reinergaertner
Ein schneller Test mit known und dem Indieweb. #experimental
(twitter.com/_/status/545227630337740800)
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@fdevillamil
Great time today with @MyCozyCloud people and @benwerd in Paris. #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/545232904763494400)
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@bart_mertens
RT @kevinmarks: @SaraJChipps https://indieauth.com/ will emulate openid for you. That's what I use now #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/545235692251783168)
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ben_thatmustbeme
wonder if its worth noting dandyid.org on the wiki
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ben_thatmustbeme
whatis dandyid
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ben_thatmustbeme
what is dandyid
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "dandyid" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=dandyid
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snarfed
hugoroyd: i'm looking at your bridgy q now
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snarfed
firefox says the cert is only for edge.ampoliros.net
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hugoroyd
snarfed: yeah, i'm going to change that before the end of the year
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hugoroyd
snarfed: thanks for looking, if you need help from me/info, just ask
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ben_thatmustbeme
hey adactio, any idea why huffduffer isn't pulling in any of my rel=me links? https://huffduffer.com/benroberts
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snarfed
so, bridgy finds benwerd's original post on werd.io and sends responses back because it sees http://werd.io/ in his twitter profile, crawls it, and finds rel-syndication links
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snarfed
hugoroyd: it's not doing that for you in this case because ampoliros.net isn't in your twitter profile
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hugoroyd
snarfed: ha, that's annoying!
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snarfed
hugoroyd: :P i'm open to feedback!
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hugoroyd
snarfed: does it work if i just add it in the description?
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snarfed
hugoroyd: i don't think so right now, but that's a good feature request. i'll check
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hugoroyd
:-)
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adactio
ben_thatmustbeme: Hmmm ...I don't know why Huffduffer isn't seeing your rel="me" links. Very odd. I'll look into it.
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Loqi
adactio: tantek left you a message on 10/21 at 5:40pm: perhaps the answer to the PWC/PSL dilemma/confusion is simple. Always post more content on the original on your own site, always link to the original since there is always more content there.
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Loqi
adactio: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message on 12/16 at 11:51am: any chance you can look in to why huffduffer isn't pulling in my "Elsewhere Links" from ben.thatmustbe.me
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davidjohnmead.com
edited /Known (+1855) "/* Transition from WordPress */"
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ben_thatmustbeme
hmm, i have been getting brid.gy backfeed for both with and without a trailing slash on my posts
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GWG
ben_thatmustbeme, isn't that good?
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@MyCozyCloud
RT @benwerd: A real pleasure to meet with @mycozycloud. What a superb platform. #ownyourdata
(twitter.com/_/status/545264693254705152)
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@MyCozyCloud
RT @fdevillamil: Great time today with @MyCozyCloud people and @benwerd in Paris. #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/545264943285538816)
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ben_thatmustbeme
GWG, its picking the others up as just mentions (which is a problem on my side), but if you look at https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/facebook/14305603/10101270139267664/752481179
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ben_thatmustbeme
view source, has both with and without the slash, so it makes sense to send it twice, but why does it have both?
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GWG
I misunderstood. I thought you meant it was sending it whether it had or not, not twice.
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kylewm
ben_thatmustbeme: it is probably finding one directly in the body of your tweet and the other one based on the u-syndication links you publish
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kylewm
although I don't see where it would be getting without the slash
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ben_thatmustbeme
i'm joing going to always trim the trailing / off on my end when i receive mentions
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ben_thatmustbeme
i need to go through and do the same for all permalinks
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snarfed
ben_thatmustbeme: sorry for the trouble! yeah, that can definitely be confusing
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snarfed
(in practice they're usually the same page, but technically they are different URLs, so bridgy's conservative)
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snarfed
ben_thatmustbeme: kylewm: my guess is actually that it's a redirect. if bridgy follows a redirect, it keeps both URLs in case the first was a short link
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kylewm
snarfed++
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Loqi
snarfed has 61 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme
what exactly is the standard, remove the trailing / or leave it?
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snarfed
ben_thatmustbeme: not sure there is a "standard"
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ben_thatmustbeme
s/standard/convention
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: what exactly is the convention, remove the trailing / or leave it?
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snarfed
and in your case, actually i'm not sure where bridgy did find the url without slash. the fb post, short link, and u-url all have the slash.
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snarfed
looking at a poll log, PPD only sees the slash versions of ben_thatmustbeme's post URLs: https://brid-gy.appspot.com/log?start_time=1418796036&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyGgsSDEZhY2Vib29rUGFnZSIIMTQzMDU2MDMM
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snarfed
so, still a mystery
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snarfed
on an unrelated note, http://retrogit.com/ is a lot of fun
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tantek
sees /URL_design questions
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: in general, if you can't justify something, drop it.
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snarfed
tantek: definitely! …in this case though, we're not sure that ben_thatmustbeme is doing anything wrong/redundant
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tantek
what's ben_thatmustbeme doing in particular?
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ben_thatmustbeme
not sure exactly why, but brid.gy is sending me webmentions twice
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ben_thatmustbeme
once with the slash, once without
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snarfed
(we're still not sure where bridgy is finding the one without)
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: regardless, as the receiver, per redirects, you're supposed to handle it
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tantek
bridgy's behavior in this case, while likely suboptimal / inefficient, is not "wrong" per se.
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: citation for you're supposed to handle it: https://indiewebcamp.com/webmention##after%20following%20redirects
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snarfed
tantek: ben_thatmustbeme agreed, earlier
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davidjohnmead.com
edited /Known (+3) "/* Steps */"
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davidjohnmead.com
edited /Known () "(-907) /* Plugins */"
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ben_thatmustbeme
also, my code doesn't return it as a redirect, it returns the same content as i treat them as the same URL
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gRegor`
I would recommend picking one or the other and redirecting.
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aaronpk
"DandyID lets you easily collect all of your online profiles in one convenient place and allows people to discover the real verified you across the web." <-- isn't that what your own website is for?
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aaronpk
also they have three patents? wut?
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tantek
what is DandyID?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "DandyID" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=DandyID
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ben_thatmustbeme
yeah, i saw that, didn't look in to what the patents are on yet
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aaronpk
https://www.google.com/patents/US20100042680 "Internet identity graph and social graph management system and method"
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tantek
aaronpk - you should know better than to look into patents
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ben_thatmustbeme
a more interesting issue though is now i'll need to look in to php-comments, a trailing / vs not trailing slash leads it to misinterpret it as a mention instead of a comment
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ben_thatmustbeme
though i suppose that would be correct
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aaronpk
"trailing slash" is misleading. they are completely separate URLs
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ben_thatmustbeme
i believe i ALWAYS show with a /, but requesting without the / does not do a redirect
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ben_thatmustbeme
it returns 200
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aaronpk
the only exception is a raw domain has an implied slash since you can't have a full URL with no path
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aaronpk
otherwise you can't assume the URLs are the same
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tantek
aaronpk - and now that you've posted publicly about one in particular that mentions "social" which thus likely overlaps the W3C Social Web WG, you're obligated (per your agreement to the group) to disclose to the WG that you found that.
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tantek
s/likely/possibly
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: aaronpk - and now that you've posted publicly about one in particular that mentions "social" which thus possibly overlaps the W3C Social Web WG, you're obligated (per your agreement to the group) to disclose to the WG that you found that.
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kylewm
patents, because who wouldn't want to read technical documents written by non-technical lawyers
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aaronpk
tantek: heh oops
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tantek
aaronpk - as a CTO, you should know better than that :P
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tantek
unfortunately no heh about it - it can potentially be quite a painful mistake
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kylewm
ben_thatmustbeme: it's bridgy's markup that differentiates the slash as a mention, php-comments is doing the right thing
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aaronpk
it appears to be a patent for their website. the figures document their website signup flow and such
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kylewm
bridgy considers one the canonical original and the other a u-mention
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tantek
aaronpk - you're not listening. "you should know better than to look ***into*** patents"
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aaronpk
well it's too late now that i've opened it
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tantek
you're not helping by writing about it
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@t
Absolute comparison arguments are of little utility. E.g. * two sides to … * either … or * fair & balanced #spectrums (ttk.me t4Z_1)
(twitter.com/_/status/542814233919234049)
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tantek
e.g. in this case being "too late" or implied, not.
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tantek
such absolute reasoning in real world situations often leads to errors in justification of actions (or lack of action)
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tantek
aaronpk, at this point I'm pretty sure the only remaining obligation you have is to email the Social Web WG with a heads-up about it, since you publicly admitted to discovering it and that it mentions "social" and "web".
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tantek
also as an op in this channel and indiewebcamp admin - if anyone else brings up anything about patents or a patent, I expect you to respond similarly as I did above to your statements.
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aaronpk
those obligations are specifically because of my W3C involvement though, yes? or do we need to worry about patent disclosures on the research going into the indiewebcamp wiki?
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tantek
we should likely make a similar policy about avoiding that on the indiewebcamp wiki as well
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Loqi
I agree
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tantek
I believe we have such a policy on microformats.org already
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davidmead
@tantek is whistle (url shortner) easy for a noob like me to get up & running?
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tantek
it is, only in that it is very little code, the hard part is your own /URL_design
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davidjohnmead.com
edited /Known (+167) "/* Steps */"
(view diff)
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davidmead
@tantek as i’m kind of starting from scratch with the Known install i want to get ahead of this while i can. i used the Hum WP plugin which was really nice.
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tantek
davidmead - from my understanding of Known's /URL_design - it's unlikely to work
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tantek
Whistle works for permalinks which use dates, post type, and number of that post type, and specifically DO NOT depend on the slug
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davidmead
@tantek hmm. guess I’ll have to keep investigating then.
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kylewm
davidmead: this is kind of a clever url shortener hack that doesn't require code https://gist.github.com/lucasgonze/c5d935823ef17f5ffa3f
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davidmead
thanks @kylewm. i’ll take a look
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bret
wow keybase has a ton of tech people now, lots of overlap with my twitter network
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davidjohnmead.com
edited /Known (+454) "/* Steps */"
(view diff)
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davidmead
@tantek let me know if this is what you were looking for https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?diff=16085&oldid=16083&rcid=16102. hopefully it helps.
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davidjohnmead.com
edited /Known (-1) "/* Issues */"
(view diff)
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: re: "my code doesn't return it as a redirect, it returns the same content as i treat them as the same URL" - I agree with gRegor` - you should redirect rather than serving duplicate content - which gets penalized by search engines
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tantek
aaronpk re: trailing slash not existing, the example you gave of http://aaronparecki.com vs. http://aaronparecki.com/ is not the same as ben_thatmustbeme's permalinks
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aaronpk
correct
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aaronpk
I was saying http://aaronparecki.com is an incomplete URL since there is no path component
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aaronpk
so it's okay to imply (or add) the slash
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tantek
I believe that's what the URL standard says to do to "fix" that URL
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tantek
davidmead: that's a great start on Transition from Wordpress
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tantek
minor nit - the subheads should indicate their context since they get document wide permalinks
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davidmead
thanks @tantek. i’ve bookmarked the page, so i’ll update it as i go along.
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tantek
e.g. s/Steps/Steps from WordPress
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davidmead
i’ll edit that later'
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tantek
I can take care of it :)
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kylewm.com
edited /Template:davidmead (-4) "remove extra .com"
(view diff)
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gRegor`
KartikPrabhu: HWC tonight? I could go either way on it at the moment, honestly.
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tantek.com
edited /Known (+60) "/* Transition from WordPress */ specific subheads"
(view diff)
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KartikPrabhu
gRegor`: upto you.
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tantek
gRegor`: last HWC of the year!
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tantek
take a HWC Chicago holiday photo!
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gRegor`
Haha
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gRegor`
Yeah, guess we should do it. Work has me stressed out at the moment is all. Hopefully that passes. :)
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gRegor`
I can bring my Santa hat
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KartikPrabhu
lol. keep me posted
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KartikPrabhu
but maybe we should decide and update wiki
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gRegor`
We'll do it.
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KartikPrabhu
you never know who'll try to show up
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tantek
awesome!
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tantek
also - promote it with all the usual Chicago folks as the last HWC meetup of the year!
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gRegor`
We *are* the brute sq-- I mean, the usual Chicago folks. :)
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gRegor`
I'll post a note, though. Maybe Denton will make it finally!
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tantek
and ping Mari too!
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gRegor`
Yep
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gRegor`
Mari is actually friends with Marcy, who provides our venue.
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tantek
oh cool
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gRegor`
She's not made it yet, though. Rather busy, I take it.
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Loqi
[mention] gRegor Morrill posted 'Last Homebrew Website Club of the year tonight! https://www.facebook.com/events/744818568939803/ cc @pitchdesign @marihuertas @dentonjacobs' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-12-17-homebrew-website-club (/notes/2014/12/17/2/)
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gRegor`
Ooh, that's the first I've noticed the new [mention] thingy. Nice.
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gRegor`
Annnd messed up the link.
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tantek
the new bridgy texts are quite nice
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tantek
which link?
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aaronpk
tantek: the new text is not specific to bridgy either!
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gRegor`
Opened a link and forgot to close it.
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tantek
aaronpk - cool! is that via webmention.io then? or indiewebcamp.com?
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aaronpk
webmention.io is doing all the parsing
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aaronpk
and that sentence is being returned in the webmention.io API now too
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tantek
very cool
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snarfed
thanks tantek! credit to aaronpk for taking my initial tweaks and improving them
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snarfed
(the brid-gy.appspot… link notifs before were pretty ugly and annoying)
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@killerog
Very interesting idea, this Indie Web concept. Podcast with @adactio here: http://workingdraft.de/200/ and site here: https://indiewebcamp.com/
(twitter.com/_/status/545309255612784640)
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gRegor`
aaronpk: Should it parse the full URL instead of just the path? "/notes/2014/12/17/2/"
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aaronpk
gRegor`: what's the permalink for that post? let me take a look
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gRegor`
http://gregorlove.com/notes/2014/12/17/2/ My u-url doesn't include the domain.
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aaronpk
ah that's an issue with the ruby parser, I opened an issue a couple days ago: https://github.com/G5/microformats2/issues/32
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gRegor`
k
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aaronpk
the ruby parser is slightly behind the php one, although has some nice convenience methods for dealing with it in code
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bret
are there abstract parsing languages that the different libraries can share?
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aaronpk
like sax or something?
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aaronpk
no that's not what i was thinknig of
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Loqi
[bridgy] Margot Harrington replied '@gregorlove @marihuertas @dentonjacobs ha! That sounds so final! I'm sick though :( so I'll be on the couch, keeping my germs to myself.' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-12-17-homebrew-website-club (https://twitter.com/pitchdesign/status/545312113426984960)
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kylewm
bret: want to write a reference parser in C that all the languages justneed to write bindings for?
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aaronpk
that would do it
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aaronpk
isn't that how most of the json parsers work?
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bret
kylewm: as long as it also compiles to js
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snarfed
sounds like libxml[2]
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aaronpk
libmf2
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snarfed
ah, for mf2
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aaronpk
would probably use libxml for the html parsing
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KartikPrabhu
why don't every language bind to php-mf2 or mf2py ?
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aaronpk
that seems not possible
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KartikPrabhu
in any case, multiple implementations are a good thing
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aaronpk
i mean it wuld require a node developer to have a php runtime for example
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@edsu
RT @t: Happy 11 Years of XFN! As predicted last year http://tantek.com/2013/349/b1/xfn-10th-anniversary #indieweb readers now here https://indiewebcamp.com/reader (ttk.me t4Ze2)
(twitter.com/_/status/545323934774984704)
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@loicmathaud
Présentation de demain @WebEnVert "Présentation de l'IndieWeb" terminée. Y aura plus qu'á !
(twitter.com/_/status/545324121903874048)
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tantek
a good counter-example to abolutist thinking (e.g. about security) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_in_depth_%28computing%29
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snarfed
defenseindepth++
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Loqi
defenseindepth has 1 karma
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Loqi
[bridgy] Licha amalia zaidan favorited a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/reader (https://twitter.com/t/status/544725910533206016)
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aaronpk
snarfed: here is an example of what I was talking about ^
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aaronpk
because the URL in parens doesn't have the URL of the person who RT'd
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snarfed
aaronpk: oh sure. i still agree; for twitter, we should show their handle
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aaronpk
ok cool
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snarfed
i think i still vote for name instead of domain in the native (non-bridgy) case, but i could be swayed
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aaronpk
I think I agree. I want to find more exmaples of what that'd look like though
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tantek
is this use-case documented somewhere we can understand the context / iterations of design?
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tantek
since you're arguing "for name instead of domain"
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tantek
what is webmention.io?
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Loqi
webmention.io is an open-source project and hosted service for receiving webmentions and pingbacks on behalf of your indieweb site https://indiewebcamp.com/webmention.io
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aaronpk
did we have a github thread going for this?
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tantek
thread is no bueno. need documentation of current state.
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tantek
current state in this case is, current understood/known "best practice"
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aaronpk
but the current state is in flux!
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tantek
that's the point of capturing it on the wiki!
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tantek
so you can cite previous iterations
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tantek
while you deliberately evolve it
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tantek
flux is an even stronger reason to capture current state
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tantek
otherwise all those kinds of discussions/reasonings are lost to minds that came up with them
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aaronpk
i think it's interesting that we're essentially creating an activity stream in sentences, but without any machine-readable markup or any intent on machines parsing the sentence
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aaronpk
instead we're deriving a human-readable sentence from the mf2 properties that exist on the object
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tantek
perhaps implying it may be possible to make that a reversible transform
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tantek
do you have documentation of that "deriving" somewhere?
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aaronpk
no, just code
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tantek
is that a reasonable framing and place to start that documentation ?
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tantek
of at least what your existing code does?
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aaronpk
yes i believe so
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aaronpk
we are taking h-entries and turning them into a human-readable sentence describing the h-entry
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tantek
(took me that long to even remotely understand the scope of what you were doing - to come up with a suggested page name for it!)
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tantek
a-ha you just wrote the dfn for the page!
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tantek
now stub it!
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aaronparecki.com
created /h-entry_to_text (+572) "stub with dfn and some examples"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /h-entry_to_text (+145) "subheads, likes vs replies, see also"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /h-entry_to_text (+151) "rsvps, see also github thread"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /POSSE (+79) "/* POSSE Destinations */ Plain Text Notes destinations could use h-entry to text, remove Articles section out of date todo empty section"
(view diff)
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tantek
aaronpk, snarfed, is this a reasonable use-case / justification for h-entry to text? https://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE#Plain_Text_Notes
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aaronparecki.com
edited /POSSE (+26) "/* Plain Text Notes */ also push notifications"
(view diff)
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snarfed
tantek: hmm, not sure that one is quite right. the existing IRC notif use case seems like the clearest so far
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aaronpk
maybe push notifications is not the best terminology. mobile notifications?
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aaronparecki.com
edited /POSSE (+2) "/* Plain Text Notes */"
(view diff)
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snarfed
"just notification, it's cleaner"
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aaronpk
specifically thinking of this: https://indiewebcamp.com/mention-app
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tantek
like that list of things that popup on your mobile device in locked mode?
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tantek
is there a name for those?
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aaronpk
usually push notifications
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aaronpk
i just didn't wnat to potentially confuse with "PuSH"
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tantek
do those show up on people's laptops when theyr'e in screen saver lock mode?
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aaronpk
but iOS, Android and Windows all call them push notifications
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aaronpk
I believe OSX has it too, also called push notifications
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tantek
yes - the "push" borderline plumbing
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tantek
or rather it's an orthogonal aspect
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tantek
to the visual presentation
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aaronpk
in that case the "push" implies realtime
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aaronpk
not plumbing
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tantek
might as well just call them "interruptive notifications"
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tantek
by function rather than aspect
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bret
aaronpk: yeah safari, chrome and FF support web notifications for open pages, but os x also supports apple push to desktop from web now I think
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tantek
is growl another example of this?
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bret
so the website does not need to be open
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aaronpk
growl notifications are usually not generated remotely, so it's borderline
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bret
growl was replaced by notification center i think
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tantek
growl was a 3rd party thing
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tantek
how was it "replaced by" then?
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bret
right
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aaronpk
"made obsolete by"?
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bret
well, why use growl when your system has that function now?
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snarfed
s/was/is/. it's a *nix thing, not just mac.
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bret
oh yeah thats true
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tantek
what is growl?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "growl" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=growl
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tantek
snarfed, you seem to know more about growl ;)
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aaronpk
anyway the thing people usually associate with "push notification" is that an app can send a message to your device without the app being open, and the notifications usually come from a remote service, not generated by the device
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bret
aaronpk: that!
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tantek
so a "remote service" "can send a message to your device without the [remote service's] app being open" then?
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tantek
what is a notification?
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Loqi
notifications in the context of the IndieWeb refer to all forms and ways that an independent web site can receive a message indicating something of interest (server notifications), and potentially relay that information (preferably in realtime) to one or more devices used by the owner of that site (client notifications) https://indiewebcamp.com/notification
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tantek
what is a client notification?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "client notification" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=client+notification
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tantek
what is a mobile notification?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "mobile notification" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=mobile+notification
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aaronpk
now i'm leaning towards just keeping it as "push notification"
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aaronpk
beacause nobody really says mobile notification
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aaronpk
and we can deal with talking about PuSH the plumbing explicitily
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aaronpk
yeah i'm reconsidering the usefulness of that edit
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aaronpk
oops that wasn't what i meant either
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aaronparecki.com
edited /POSSE (+44) "add back push notifications"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
bah okay i need to eat lunch
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tantek
good call. simple errors as an indicator of likely suboptimal reduced blood glucose levels.
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tantek
what are push notifications?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "push notifications" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=push+notifications
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tommorris.org
created /growl (+183) "new page"
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tommorris.org
edited /growl (-6) "oddball unicode symbols"
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tommorris.org
edited /notification (+442) "added a section on Distraction, linked to [[growl]]"
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@t
Join me at Homebrew Website Club tonight - last of 2014! 18:30 #indieweb meetup @MozSF @ESRIPDX https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-12-17-homebrew-website-club (ttk.me t4Zg1)
(twitter.com/_/status/545363572575195136)
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tommorris.org
created /GPX (+747) "new page"
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aaronpk
oh dear
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