#indiewebcamp 2015-01-24

2015-01-24 UTC
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GWG I think the manufacturers are still working on that
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tantek it's the generic name for which Pebble and Lg G Watch are both highly meaningful instances of
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tantek more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartwatch
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tantek you could list LG G Watch as an example
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tantek along with your criticism about it
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GWG I'm just wondering if commenting that the category is immature is a fact or merely opinion
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tantek sounds like opinion
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tantek though it's worth documenting specific criticism(s) of specific piece(s) of hardware
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bret i should look into the crossover with https://jsonresume.org/schema/ and h-resume
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Loqi agreed.
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@jgmac1106 @mjsamberg @DavidKaib @JustinAion @mdawriter @ptritter i am trying to make a commitment to trying #openweb #indieweb tools (twitter.com/_/status/558794467378233344)
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GWG Hmm...pfefferle merged my PR for tag support in Semantic Linkbacks. Good
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tantek excellent!
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david.shanske.com edited /Pebble (+21) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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GWG tantek: I think I wrote it the night you were pondering tags
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tantek hmm - hoping I didn't change the syntax since ;)
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tantek.com edited /Pebble (+15) "linky linky" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /Pebble (+590) (view diff)
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david.shanske.com created /smart_watch (+774) "Created page with "A <dfn>smart watch</dfn> is a mobile device designed to be worn on the wrist. Designed to be similar in appearance to traditional watches, and often defaulting to mimicking the f..."" (view diff)
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GWG What is a smart watch?
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Loqi A smart watch is a mobile device designed to be worn on the wrist https://indiewebcamp.com/smart_watch
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tantek nice
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david.shanske.com created /Android_Wear (+359) "Created page with "<dfn>Android Wear</dfn> is a version of the [[Android]] operating system designed for [[smart watches]] and other [[wearables]]. == Indieweb Examples === David Shanske === {{g..."" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /Android_Wear (+3) (view diff)
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GWG What is Android Wear?
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Loqi Android Wear is a version of the Android operating system designed for smart watches and other wearables https://indiewebcamp.com/Android_Wear
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GWG So there we are
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tantek nice
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david.shanske.com edited /smart_watch (+262) (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /Android_Wear (+101) (view diff)
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GWG Wonder if there is any other tech I should add
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tantek Is there any other tech you use as part of your indieweb site?
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tantek hello html5cat - do you know indiewebcat?
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tantek scaredy cat apparently.
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GWG tantek: If I ever figure out how to make home automation a useful part of my website...maybe
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tantek @tomcoates's house has its own Twitter account: https://twitter.com/houseofcoates
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tantek as such, perhaps your house should have it's own web site?
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tantek then we can debate about what should go on your home's homepage
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GWG I just haven't figured out how much of my comings and goings I want to share
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tantek come on back html5cat, we're a friendly bunch.
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tantek !tell kylewm I haven't heard from benwerd, could you go ahead and create an indie event / FB POSSE copy for http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club ? Thanks much!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@dissolve333 Testing out saving indieweb posts while offline!(btmb.me s/6j) (twitter.com/_/status/558822787507159040)
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tantek interesting
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ben_thatmust it worked!
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ben_thatmust save and replay as many posts as i want, and it reposted from the time i hit 'save'
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tantek very cool
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tantek what is offline?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "offline" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=offline
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I am thinking of making marginalia.js show and hide using only CSS with the "show/hide" button being an <input type="radio"/> element. Is this an abuse of HTML input elements?
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tantek <input type="checkbox"/> is likely more appropriate
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tantek [x] Show marginalia
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KartikPrabhu tantek: checkbox doesn't work because "showing" one marginalia should hide the others
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tantek oh wow you're going use one big radio group for the whole post?
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KartikPrabhu hmm but radio does not work to click on the same one to hide....
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yes :) just set all their "name" property to the same thing
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KartikPrabhu but yes radio does not do "unselect" :(
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tantek that may require script
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KartikPrabhu yeah. my whole aim was to reduce JS dependence to only moving the marginalia in place
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KartikPrabhu more thinking needed. thanks
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tantek.com edited /POSSE_to_Facebook (+226) "/* Liking */ API disallows liking pages" (view diff)
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tantek heads up indiewebcampers - OpenSource Bridge 2015 CFP is open! http://opensourcebridge.org/call-for-proposals/
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tantek and three of us IndieWebCamp participants made the "some talks from the past" examples on the CFP page!
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KartikPrabhu on further research I'll stick to current button markup+JS to toggle classes for now
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tantek KartikPrabhu: you can also use # links and :target selector to show/hide marginalia
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KartikPrabhu hmm that would need artificially creating ids for each marginalia group...
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tantek correct
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tantek automatically as it were
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tantek but it could work
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tantek because all you do is put a "hide" link inside the shown marginalia, on top of where the show link was, so when they click that, it effectively toggles and hides itself
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KartikPrabhu yeah it would... and people could use the #-ed URL to link to the marginalia
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tantek correct!
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KartikPrabhu interesting, will think about this one, since I am automatically creating the marginalia button in JS anyway putting ids on it might be ok
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tantek I'm also thinking of this as a design that would work with server-side embedded marginalia, and client-side pure CSS UI - no JS needed to hide/show
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KartikPrabhu yes. that was my motivation too
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tantek the "hide" buttons should simply have a link to the paragraph that the marginalia is about - so that the document does not scroll / move when the hide button is clicked, however, the URL is still "sensible" in the URL bar
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KartikPrabhu marginalia.js exists only to bootstrap server code that does not do its own marginalia stuff, so even say Wordpress users can use it
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tantek CSS-only UI like that takes a bit more design effort, but I think there are many side-effect benefits
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KartikPrabhu agreed
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KartikPrabhu the JS becomes smaller and less bloated too
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KartikPrabhu also should make marginalia work with single # fragmentions
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Loqi [mention] https://kylewm.com/2015/01/homebrew-website-club-28-january-2015 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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GWG Okay....trying srcset
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kylewm.com edited /events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club (+102) "/* Details */ add SF URLs" (view diff)
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kylewm did anyone talk snarfed out of the PESOS thing yet? :)
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Loqi kylewm: tantek left you a message 2 hours, 16 minutes ago: I haven't heard from benwerd, could you go ahead and create an indie event / FB POSSE copy for http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club ? Thanks much!
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snarfed lol kylewm
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snarfed i haven't actually talked myself into it yet
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: I tried ;)
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snarfed i want it, i just can't commit to building it myself
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kylewm it is a little weird that someone hasn't already... what about that asheville project?
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kylewm I mean I think it would be super nice, and obviously doing these little interactions are easier on the silos than any of our current UIs, but it kind of feels like giving up
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kylewm or... it feels like a dead end rather
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snarfed i definitely understand what you mean
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snarfed i only really want it for cases where i'm specifically interacting with an existing silo-only post though
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snarfed i'd still expect to posse for indie-first use cases
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Loqi [bridgy] Kyle Mahan RSVPed yes to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club (https://www.facebook.com/387249418101711#12802152)
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kylewm sure, hmm
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/387249418101711#214611 was invited to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club
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kylewm I hate that I can't RSVP no to an event I created
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snarfed heh
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kylewm also IFTTT could have been so much cooler if they opened up some kind of channel creation API (or just had a webhooks channel)
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kylewm it seems like such a nerd-centered service, why stop just short
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kylewm (sorry i'm catching up on the PESOS discussion in reverse chronological order)
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snarfed np!
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snarfed how's detroit?
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kylewm cold
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snarfed i bet
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kylewm oh wow, kenton's comment on the webmention issue is super interesting!
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kylewm https://github.com/kentonv/ssjekyll/issues/3
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KartikPrabhu too much API stuff for me
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bret kylewm: RE IFTTT, i know right? I can't even trigger on a github star
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bret oh wait maybe the finally added a channel
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kylewm is a GitHub star more or less a "like"?
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kylewm it doesn't seem to affect anything else
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bret nope
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bret kylewm: i wouldn't mind making a copy to pinboard
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bret since, thats kind of my search for it later pile of links
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kylewm that's a good idea
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kylewm could do like a Dropbox or Evernote to micropub bridge...that monitors a folder/document and sends new content to your site...
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kylewm then IFTTT -> Dropbox -> Micopub ... kludgy
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snarfed kylewm: i actually wonder if the silo ifttt channels include triggers for new comment/like/etc
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kylewm oh good point
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snarfed looks like no :(
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snarfed https://ifttt.com/facebook#triggers
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snarfed https://ifttt.com/twitter#triggers
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snarfed IG has a trigger for like. https://ifttt.com/instagram#triggers
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snarfed it's the exception though
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kylewm very surprised by that
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tantek catches up on logs
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tantek snarfed, but Bridgy Publish already supports liking IG photos/videos right?
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snarfed tantek: via posse, yes
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@bupk_es @tcbarrett more #indieweb woes. having trouble with the syndicating, and pulling in replies from twitter. my ... http://bupk.es/blog/t/1a (twitter.com/_/status/558884858181611524)
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@bupk_es @TCBarrett @tcbarrett more #indieweb woes. having trouble with the syndicating, and pulling in replies from twitter. my bad. Also on:Twitter (twitter.com/_/status/558884870563184640)
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bupkes my apologies for those last couple. i shouldn't have put that hashtag in
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tantek sounds appropriate
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tantek snarfed: does Bridgy Publish (web UI) cache form submissions?
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snarfed tantek: sorry, i don't follow
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snarfed i saw your 403s just now though
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tantek I made a mistake in a like post, only discovered when Bridgy 403'd
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tantek then I fixed my like post to link to the proper u-like-of URL
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tantek and when I retried the form at https://www.brid.gy/twitter/t
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tantek the preview showed it liking the *old* URL
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tantek as if https://www.brid.gy/twitter/t submission didn't re-fetch the post URL I submitted
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snarfed ah, i see what you mean
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snarfed no, it fully reruns each time
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snarfed you can see the gory details in the log links (x minutes ago) on https://www.brid.gy/twitter/t#publishes
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tantek those preview are showing a preview of liking the *old* u-like-of link in tantek.com/2015/023/f3 - not the current value
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snarfed i understand what you're saying
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tantek s/preview/last 2 previews
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Loqi tantek meant to say: those last 2 previews are showing a last 2 previews of liking the *old* u-like-of link in tantek.com/2015/023/f3 - not the current value
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snarfed i don't know why that is, buut i do know it refetches and re-renders every time
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tantek hmm - I wonder where the (over)caching is occuring then
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snarfed https://twitter.com/atomicules/status/556247185608937474 is the old value?
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@atomicules I remember hearing about microformats years ago; didn't see the point in them then, but like the idea of #indieweb so... (twitter.com/_/status/556247185608937474)
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tantek and now it just worked
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snarfed if you look at those log links, e.g. https://www.brid.gy/log?start_time=1422084534&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyRAsSDVB1Ymxpc2hlZFBhZ2UiHWh0dHA6Ly90YW50ZWsuY29tLzIwMTUvMDIzL2YzDAsSB1B1Ymxpc2gYgICAgIC5hAoM , you'll see the http fetch of your page, and the mf2 parse result
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snarfed eh overcaching somewhere
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snarfed could be google's external http fetching system. app engine uses it
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tantek ah ok
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tantek seems to have a few minute time-out
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tantek so in practice should be ok
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tantek but interesting nonetheless!
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snarfed definitely shorter than that. i've done the same iteration you've done, with 5-10s cycle time
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snarfed so maybe somewhere else
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tantek FYI I did change and update http://tantek.com/2015/023/f3 *immediately* after that first 403
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tantek so the subsequent 403s were a surprise
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snarfed shrug. computers, how do they work?
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snarfed er, let me rephrase. apologies for the trouble. sorry i couldn't help more. glad it's working now. :P
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tantek no problem. it's only one of the three hard problems ;)
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@t @atomicules doing similarly, queuing webmentions for now at a proxy, posting with u-in-reply-to & u-like-of. #indieweb (ttk.me t4_J4) (twitter.com/_/status/558893567553196032)
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@t Twitter: post photos directly, not via Instagram http://mashable.com/2015/01/22/twitter-instagram-photos/ #indieweb: post to your site, POSSE to Twitter (ttk.me t4_J5) (twitter.com/_/status/558896694813655041)
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@andkjaer All You Need to Know About This Year’s Super Bowl Ads >> http://www.adweek.com/socialtimes/?p=612685&utm_content=buffer351e5&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #SocialMedia Tip from Karen Fratti. #SelfPublish #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/558907336128204801)
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@grandeped Spent the day at work yesterday selling the gospel of #connectivism, #heutagogy, @ReclaimHosting, #indieweb, posse, you name it. Good day. (twitter.com/_/status/559031920999563265)
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snarfed word of the day: heutagogy. https://www.google.com/search?q=define:heutagogy
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GWG This grunt and sass stuff is surprisingly useful.
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GWG I'll have to thank pfefferle for including some of it in the Indieweb plugin, necessitating my reading up on it
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gRegor` Morning, indieweb.
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GWG Morning, gRegor`
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gRegor` Does anyone use a CSS reset? I've never really used one, but am considering it. Looking for recommendations and pros/cons.
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GWG gRegor`: The project I based my theme on does
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GWG They just switched which one, so I was looking at it
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gRegor` Which reset is it? Thoughts?
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GWG http://necolas.github.io/normalize.css/
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gregorlove.com created /Cascading_Style_Sheets (+104) "stub" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /CSS (+36) "r" (view diff)
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GWG The conclusion of the developers of the original project was that it was less disruptive, and just set basic defaults.
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gregorlove.com created /css (+36) "r" (view diff)
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GWG gRegor`: The description of Normalize.css sounds good. But I'm not enough of an expert to comment. But I figured they were trying it upstream, so why not?
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gRegor` I have mixed feelings on them. Leaning towards no, currently, but was just curious.
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voxpelli +1 on Normalize.css – its aim is not to change browsers but rather just make them consistent and reliable
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JonathanNeal Woo normalize
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JonathanNeal GWG: who do you mean by “developers of the original project”
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gRegor` Currently looking at http://html5doctor.com/html-5-reset-stylesheet/
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gRegor` Normalize looks nice
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JonathanNeal gRegor`: In the old reset.css, the resetting of div was pointless, and there was no advantage over the plain * selector (people burned `*` at the stake because they didn’t know the difference between it and `.foo *`).
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JonathanNeal 99% of the time, you do not want to reset your document, and you inevitably add back styles like strong { font-weight: 700 } etc. Normalize is what you want.
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JonathanNeal 1% of the time you’re writing something that for whatever reason is intended to NOT look anything like what your markup suggests.
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JonathanNeal Things like normalize.css and html5shiv are intended to bridge the gap between the old days and the future. We’re very close to the future, where things like normalize.css will hopefully be optional.
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JonathanNeal Now we’re moving into the era of micro-libraries and polyfills. We see this with the fork in jQuery 1 vs jQuery 2, where jQuery 1 maintains compatibility with the older browsers, but the majority of development is now focused on evergreen browsers, aka browsers that update themselves and are rarely further back than the last two versions.
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GWG JonathanNeal: If you read up...the project on which I based my design...So the decision to use normalize was made upstream.
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JonathanNeal I thought you were saying the original normalize developers thought normalize was less disruptive than reset. You’re saying the original developers of a theme you used thought reset was less disruptive than normalize?
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GWG But, they don't add in html5shiv by default, but the version I'm working on does, along with picturefill and a few others.
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GWG JonathanNeal: The normalize developers thought that too, according to what the normalize page says
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GWG But, the theme I used is a starter theme...almost no styling. They switched from a more aggressive reset to normalize this month. That was why I was looking at it. My plan is to incorporate any changes they make downstream into my fork, which is an mf2/Indieweb version.
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JonathanNeal Oh, well, you’re going to get a very bias +1 to normalize from me.
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JonathanNeal So, awesome!
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@pchapuis Happy to find out at least some of my tweets are useful :) http://atomicules.co.uk/2015/01/22/Indieweb.html (twitter.com/_/status/559059304201093120)
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JonathanNeal Do many of you use WordPress for your personal sites?
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GWG JonathanNeal: At least 60% of the time, I don't think I know what I'm doing.
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GWG JonathanNeal: I do.
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JonathanNeal Oh, when I’m conscience of what I’m doing, I’m 60% sure I have no idea what I’m doing. =)
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GWG Well, if you are interested, I'm looking for help.
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JonathanNeal How might I help you?
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GWG https://github.com/dshanske/mf2_s
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GWG I've been working on, among other things, a starter theme for people to make themes that work well with mf2 and Indieweb plugins.
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GWG Much more to do. But advice and guidance is always appreciated
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JonathanNeal Awesome. How far is this from the original project?
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GWG I've backported a lot of the modifications that were in SemPress, which was also based on _s, and am continuing to add modifications as _s commits them
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JonathanNeal It’s a fork of http://underscores.me/ ?
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GWG JonathanNeal: It incorporates support for various Indieweb plugins, which _s would never do
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GWG It adds in html5shiv and picturefill.
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GWG It adds in classes for mf2
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JonathanNeal Ah, the next version of WordPress is adding picturefill support, too, I think.
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JonathanNeal Now THAT’s helpful. _s doesn’t do mf?
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GWG JonathanNeal: Then I would deprecate. I also don't believe in supporting two versions back
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GWG It doesn't do mf2. It does mf
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GWG If you are wondering, _s rejected a proposal to add mf2 until WordPress core adds it
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GWG Which I can understand
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GWG My fork also changes the behavior specifically for the image post format or the photo post kind(if support is available) to use the Featured Image, if available, instead of the content.
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JonathanNeal Why’s that?
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JonathanNeal In https://github.com/dshanske/mf2_s/blob/master/README.s, I would link back to the mf2 spec, the _s theme, and anything else. Then I know exactly what you’re referencing.
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GWG Partly to allow for ease of use. Instead of writing the content, you add the featured image ad caption it.
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GWG README.s is the original README file. Mine is README.md/readme.txt
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GWG But I may change that to avoid confusion.
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JonathanNeal Oh, okay. Well, the best / hardest thing about a fork that you intend to redistribute is this: focus on what you do and do it well. If the image post thing is tangental to the goals of the project, I would drop it.
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GWG I've experimented with and dropped a few things already.
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GWG The image/photo post changing to featured image support works well in standardizing the formatting of image posts
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GWG It does ensure a level of consistency in marking up photo posts, but degrades if the user doesn't use it
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GWG So, while a starter theme, it does have extra pieces _s doesn't as a starter theme.
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GWG https://tiny.n9n.us/ - If you are interested in seeing the testing site on it
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GWG Also thinking of taking parts of it and sending them out of the theme.
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GWG https://github.com/dshanske/mf2_s/blob/master/inc/entry-meta.php#L94
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GWG I thought about writing a version of this that mirrors the built-in WordPress functionality and sending it as a pull request to the Semantic Linkbacks plugin.
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bret.io edited /Cascading_Style_Sheets (+299) (view diff)
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GWG So, I'm preparing to add internationalization support to my code. Wondering if anyone cares to translate it.
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GWG I think at least obe person who is in Europe downloaded it.
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prtksxna GWG: People care :) https://translatewiki.net/
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prtksxna https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Translating:New_project
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GWG prtksxna: I meant...someone who is interested in using the code.
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GWG I know people care about translations in general.
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prtksxna GWG: I meant that people at translate wiki are always interested in helping translate open source projects
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prtksxna It becomes sort of a chicken and egg problem though
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GWG How so?
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prtksxna If its available in (lets say) Hindi then people want it to have better support. If there is no support whatsoever they look for other products
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GWG prtksxna: Either way, I'm just adding in the textdomain stuff. I have to go through the wiki and make sure I didn't miss anything...replace every hardcoded string.
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GWG But it will be a happy day if someone, for example, emails me and says... "I like your plugin...but it doesn't support Hindi(to use your example), I'd like to send you the translation."
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prtksxna :)
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prtksxna Its amazing how many translations a small MediaWiki extension I am working on has recieved.
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prtksxna https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-Popups/tree/master/i18n
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GWG prtksxna: I'm relatively new to development. While I'm writing stuff because I want to use it, and it doesn't exist....it is always nice to know someone likes the work.
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GWG It also is a source of inspiration
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prtksxna It awesome that you are sharing. I know I am benefiting from it :)
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GWG Internationalization doesn't help me personally, but it would remove a barrier for others to contribute.
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GWG prtksxna: If there is anything you need or want, message me...and/or add an issue on Github.
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GWG I've already fixed a few, and more are coming.
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prtksxna Once you've added support for translatewiki you won't have to worry about i18n for a very long time
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prtksxna Translations will keep pouring in :)
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prtksxna GWG: I will, I've just been busy with travel and my work on MediaWiki
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GWG I will likely try it after a few more test revisions
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GWG prtksxna: Hope you went somewhere fun
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prtksxna GWG: In SF for a while, mostly work :)
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GWG I added automatic .pot file generation, but I need to add in more.
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GWG pfefferle had me playing with Grunt, because he used it in the plugin I signed on as a second contributor on, so I fiddled with it a bit and got it generating translation templates automatically for my code.
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prtksxna I've never worked with .pot files
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prtksxna But good that you are getting Grunt to work for you :)
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Loqi [bridgy] Todd Barnard commented '+Tantek Çelik - Nice guy. Super smart. Visitor from another planet :D' on a post http://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://plus.google.com/106119964731604142156/posts/Pnmh7fgALDE)
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Loqi [bridgy] Tantek Çelik commented '+Todd Barnard you're too kind. And really, I've been working on my human interface. :)' on a post http://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://plus.google.com/106119964731604142156/posts/Pnmh7fgALDE)
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rascul lies, he's not from another planet
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rascul he's from another universe!
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GWG Which one?
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rascul he didn't feel compelled to divulge that information when i met him
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GWG At least I'm not the only one who thinks tantek is not of this world.
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