#indiewebcamp 2015-01-23

2015-01-23 UTC
snarfed and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
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kylewm.com
edited /2014-review (+124) "/* This Is A Movement */ fill in some missing images"
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kylewm.com
edited /2014-review (+26) "/* This Is A Movement */ fill in last 2 images, not ideal"
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gRegor`
Looks like ben_thatmustbeme got the template set up already. Less work for me! :) Nice work.
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gregorlove.com
edited /2014-review (+108) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ Chicago"
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www.clintpatty.com
edited /Known (+63) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
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kylewm
does http://www.wired.com/2014/11/indie-hosters/ count as a post about the indieweb? (I think yes)
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kylewm.com
edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+314) "/* 2014 */ add Wired articles about Known and IndieHosters"
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Loqi
[mention] Kyle Mahan commented 'Welcome! There are a lot of moving parts and a lot of jargon, don’t worry about not getting it all at once. Getting Started and Indiewebify....' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting%20Started (https://kylewm.com/2015/01/welcome-there-are-a-lot-of-moving-parts-and-a-lot)
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@NurtureGirl
When is the next SF #indiewebcamp homebrew website meetup thingy @kevinmarks ?
(twitter.com/_/status/558470504647254016)
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KevinMarks__
You think databases are an antipattern? How about spreadsheets: https://twitter.com/ericries/status/558431420264497153?s=09
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aaronpk
KevinMarks__: lol I like how one of them says "they will be paying about $400,0000 more over the lifetime..."
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aaronpk
WHAT NUMBER IS $400,0000
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: in europe it is $400
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KartikPrabhu
take that standards
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aaronpk
KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu has 89 karma
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aaronpk
with extra precision
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KartikPrabhu
that is interesting I knew Bitcoin had milli-precision but not $
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aaronpk
i think banks process sub-pennies internally but you don't see that on statements
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aaronpk
but don't quote me on that
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KartikPrabhu
I recall some sci-fi thingie using those milli-precision to commit financial fraud, don't know if that has happened in IRL
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bear
all bank transactions are done to 3 or 4 digits with firm rules on rounding
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aaronpk
of course bear knows
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bear
i've coded *many* accounting systems in my day
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KartikPrabhu
bear: my condolences
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bear
oh yea
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kylewm
KartikPrabhu: I think the scifi you are thinking of is Office Space
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KartikPrabhu
I had to code a mock-stock-trading game in college and it was a nightmare
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: I was thinking more Ghost in the Shell
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aaronpk
KartikPrabhu: that reminds me of this http://play.elevatorsaga.com/#challenge=1
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aaronpk
thinks this might be off topic
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KartikPrabhu
"Elevator Saga" new M. Night Shyamalan movie where one of those people is the Devil
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KartikPrabhu
oops, that is already a movie
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Loqi
[bridgy] Jean M Russell replied '@kevinmarks Great. I plan to be there...and might even bring N. again. You coming? M. is out of town.' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club (https://twitter.com/NurtureGirl/status/558476164742668288)
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snarfed
hey aaronpk, just fyi, the "what's this" link on http://ownyourgram.com/ goes to indieauth
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aaronpk
that is intended
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aaronpk
guess i should make a page on ownyourgram explaining it though
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snarfed
yeah, probably
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aaronpk
issue files
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Loqi
[bridgy] Kevin Marks replied '@NurtureGirl planning to - we can check the bridgy problems' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club (https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/558477432840138754)
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snarfed
cue the wms in 3…2…1…
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Loqi
[mention] Ryan Barrett posted 'POSSEing silo interactions is getting harder by the day, and Bridgy Publish is suffering as a result. We could fix this by adding an OwnYour...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (https://snarfed.org/)
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Loqi
[mention] Ryan Barrett posted 'POSSEing silo interactions is getting harder by the day, and Bridgy Publish is suffering as a result. We could fix this by adding an OwnYour...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/PESOS (https://snarfed.org/)
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Loqi
[mention] Ryan Barrett posted 'POSSEing silo interactions is getting harder by the day, and Bridgy Publish is suffering as a result. We could fix this by adding an OwnYour...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/ownyourdata (https://snarfed.org/)
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Loqi
[mention] Ryan Barrett posted 'POSSEing silo interactions is getting harder by the day, and Bridgy Publish is suffering as a result. We could fix this by adding an OwnYour...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE#Advantages (https://snarfed.org/)
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Loqi
[mention] Ryan Barrett posted 'POSSEing silo interactions is getting harder by the day, and Bridgy Publish is suffering as a result. We could fix this by adding an OwnYour...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/webactions (https://snarfed.org/)
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Loqi
[mention] Ryan Barrett posted 'POSSEing silo interactions is getting harder by the day, and Bridgy Publish is suffering as a result. We could fix this by adding an OwnYour...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/silo (https://snarfed.org/)
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Loqi
[mention] Ryan Barrett posted 'POSSEing silo interactions is getting harder by the day, and Bridgy Publish is suffering as a result. We could fix this by adding an OwnYour...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/interactions (https://snarfed.org/)
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Loqi
[mention] Ryan Barrett posted 'POSSEing silo interactions is getting harder by the day, and Bridgy Publish is suffering as a result. We could fix this by adding an OwnYour...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/Instagram#API (https://snarfed.org/)
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Loqi
[mention] Ryan Barrett posted 'POSSEing silo interactions is getting harder by the day, and Bridgy Publish is suffering as a result. We could fix this by adding an OwnYour...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/Google%2B#POSSE (https://snarfed.org/)
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Loqi
[mention] Ryan Barrett posted 'POSSEing silo interactions is getting harder by the day, and Bridgy Publish is suffering as a result. We could fix this by adding an OwnYour...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/PESOS#Disadvantages (https://snarfed.org/)
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Loqi
[mention] Ryan Barrett posted 'POSSEing silo interactions is getting harder by the day, and Bridgy Publish is suffering as a result. We could fix this by adding an OwnYour...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#Authentication (https://snarfed.org/)
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KartikPrabhu
should that not link to the post permalink and not snarfed's homepage?
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snarfed
yes, yes it should
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: i idd find it as it was the latest post on homepage
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aaronpk
what happepned!
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aaronpk
some day i will make webmention.io roll those up
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snarfed
aaronpk: all valid wms. just the source link is bad
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snarfed
!tell kylewm GWG gRegor` KartikPrabhu aaronpk tantek ben_thatmustbeme barryf hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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snarfed
has a sinking feeling he should have comma-separated those usernames...?
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kylewm
let's find out...
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Loqi
kylewm: snarfed left you a message 1 minute ago: GWG gRegor` KartikPrabhu aaronpk tantek ben_thatmustbeme barryf hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
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GWG
Hmm....
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KartikPrabhu
yeah snarfed that didn't work
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snarfed
!tell kylewm,GWG,gRegor`,KartikPrabhu,aaronpk,tantek,ben_thatmustbeme,ben_thatmust,barryf hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu: snarfed left you a message 23 seconds ago: hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: does the 200 code on webemntion mean it is queued for processing?
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snarfed
nah just lazy caching
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KartikPrabhu
aah ok cool
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snarfed
flushed
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kylewm
snarfed: did you notice my "boop" native comment earlier today?
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Loqi
kylewm: snarfed left you a message 4 minutes ago: hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
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kylewm
it busted the cache on that page :P
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snarfed
kylewm: hey yes!
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KartikPrabhu
man no matter how long I have done this, webmention+federated commenting still looks like magic!
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Loqi
[mention] Ryan Barrett posted 'POSSEing silo interactions is getting harder by the day, and Bridgy Publish is suffering as a result. We could fix this by adding an OwnYour...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#Developer_Relations (https://snarfed.org/)
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu: this proposal is primarily for content-free interactions like likes and retweets
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snarfed
and yes, i know you can include content in indie likes/reposts/etc; this is for the times you don't :P
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KartikPrabhu
still Twitter API has sometimes missed "favs" so those ones won't be PESOSed back to my site
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snarfed
but yes, it also includes (contentful) replies, since you can't automatically posse those to G+, IG, and now sometimes FB *at all* :(
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KartikPrabhu
but of course go for it if bridgy PESOS has popular demand
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snarfed
i *really* don't want to build it…but i do want to use it
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snarfed
btw, cool, i didn't know the WP webmention plugin supported CRUD
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KartikPrabhu
oh so it did update my comment and not make a new one?
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KartikPrabhu
oh yeah it did. nice
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snarfed
re bridgy and twitter api and favorites, those are scraped, not api. the api doesn't expose them per tweet. :/
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KartikPrabhu
hmm yeah so there is also that
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snarfed
it does expose them per user though
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snarfed
(so pesos would work)
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KartikPrabhu
hmmm that might work then
snarfed, cstanhope, pwcc, KevinMarks__ and gRegor` joined the channel
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gRegor`
!tell snarfed I'm about 1,000 miles from having micropub support. Just not an itch for me currently or in the near future. So I guess I don't have strong opinions on Bridgy PESOS
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Loqi
gRegor`: snarfed left you a message 1 hour, 12 minutes ago: hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
wolftune, j12t, tantek, cweiske and bupkes joined the channel
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bupkes
hi
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bupkes
i've been working on my wp site, just messing around with plugins and such
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bupkes
bupk.es/blog now set up to display only 'proper' blog posts on main page...
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bupkes
...and 'status' format posts on a sidebar
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KartikPrabhu
ooks good
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bupkes
i'd like to have a page that just shows the status (microblog) posts, but i'll need to dig around a few plugins i think
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bupkes
thanks btw :) (if you were talking to me, kartik)
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xtof
loic_m : salut loic !
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loic_m
hello :)
friedcell, eschnou, KartikPrabhu, krendil, LauraJ and pfefferle joined the channel
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pfefferle
good morning indieweb
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@MGZALLP
RT @xtof_fr: Comment supprimer le `www` sur un domaine ? Coincé sur http://www.ducamp.me/Nowww Cherche un membre #indieweb .. http://t.co/pE7g…
(twitter.com/_/status/558560315697553408)
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KevinMarks_
can ownyourgram and Known work to PESOS instagram to twitter?
LauraJ joined the channel
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@xtof_fr
@loicmathaud Merci pour tout. Migrations + remaniements prévus ce weekend. À bientôt pour reparler #indiewebcamp in @OpenChateau
(twitter.com/_/status/558568127337078784)
LauraJ, davemenninger, pfefferle_ and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
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@loicmathaud
@xtof_fr @OpenChateau de rien ! Content d'avoir pris contact et au plaisir de reparler d'#indiewebcamp aussi ;)
(twitter.com/_/status/558572306856161280)
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bupkes
hey, pfefferle
davemenninger joined the channel
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bupkes
I just installed Sempress at my site (bupk.es/blog) thanks for putting it together
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bupkes
(plus the plugins)
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pfefferle
hey bupkes
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pfefferle
thanks :)
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bupkes
:)
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bupkes
I tried making a child theme but i'm too much of a newbie right now, i just made a mess :)
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pfefferle
jihaisse made a nice and simple one, if you prefer that http://jihais.se
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bupkes
i did but honestly it wasn't fit for public consumption!
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bupkes
ok thanks i'll check it out
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pfefferle
let me know if I can help you with something
friedcell joined the channel
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@bookprescom
All You Need to Know About This Year’s Super Bowl Ads >> http://www.adweek.com/socialtimes/?p=612685&utm_content=buffer89a57&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #SocialMedia Tip from Karen Fratti. #SelfPublish #IndieAuth…
(twitter.com/_/status/558610296320045056)
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bupkes
thanks very much, that's really kind of you!
michielbdejong, scor, JonathanNeal and veselosky joined the channel
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fiatjaf
does bridgy handle posts from others on your facebook wall?
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KartikPrabhu
fiatjaf: no. bridgy does not double as a "reader"
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fiatjaf
KartikPrabhu: does any service or library do this?
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GWG
Morning
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Loqi
GWG: snarfed left you a message 8 hours, 39 minutes ago: hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
prtksxna and krendil joined the channel
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fiatjaf
oh, just read the PESOS thing about bridgy. it seems it will be impossible to do what I want.
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KartikPrabhu
fiatjaf: not yet afaik
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kylewm
fiatjaf: what do you want to do with posts on your wall?
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GWG
pfefferle: Got a minute?
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GWG
bupkes: Saw you favorited a post of mine
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pfefferle
hey GWG, sure!°
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GWG
pfefferle: I wanted to ask you that consolidation question I started to yesterday
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pfefferle
GWG merging the comments plugin into the semantic linkbacks?
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GWG
pfefferle: Some of it, yes.
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GWG
This comes out of the same thought with the Indieweb plugin
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GWG
How do you make things easier for people to use?
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fiatjaf.alhur.es
edited /email (+151) "updated questo.email reference and description."
(view diff)
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GWG
I wouldn't suggest merging all of the comment plugin into the Linkbacks plugin, but I think moving some of what I was trying to do upstream would work
LauraJ joined the channel
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GWG
It's the same reason I asked Jihaisse about merging WordPress Syndication and Syndication Links.
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pfefferle
GWG it is a bit hard in its settings
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pfefferle
GWG I don’t like the fact that it disables the comment form completely
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pfefferle
GWG and the avatars doesn’t work on my local installation
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GWG
pfefferle: The problem is how to separate the comment types without overriding the comment form.
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pfefferle
GWG will think about that
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pfefferle
willnorris did something similar
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GWG
pfefferle: I'm suggesting implementing the code in a different way.
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GWG
That requires the Genesis framework.
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GWG
It uses a custom hook.
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pfefferle
GWG wordpress might have a standard hook
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GWG
pfefferle: I'll look again. Other than overriding the form completely, so far no.
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GWG
pfefferle: But, that is why I was trying using a new default comment walker.
interactivist joined the channel
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GWG
pfefferle: That's what I use
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pfefferle
and what is the walker doing?
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pfefferle
GWG and what is this doing?
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GWG
The Walker marks up the individual comments using MF2 and uses the 'short_ping' option to generate the picture only version of the webmention for the facepile.
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GWG
So, if you change that argument to wp_list_comments, then it goes back to the full Linkbacks presentation
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GWG
pfefferle: If you look on the settings page, I have a 'debug' setting for each part of the plugin.
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GWG
You can disable the template and just use the walker, and you can disable the short ping.
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GWG
You can even disable the walker.
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GWG
Of course, if you turn off everything, then it won't work.
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ben_thatmustbeme
good morning all
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GWG
Good morning, ben_thatmustbeme
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ben_thatmustbeme
!tell tantek facepile looks good, sorry I missed a few people from that list, took me some time to clean it all up and sort alphabetically and all
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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GWG
pfefferle: If I proposed something for integration with Semantic Linkbacks, it would try to be more consistent with how that plugin works anyway.
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pfefferle
GWG oh sorry, I haven’t found the settings page
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pfefferle
GWG Oh, under the comments part
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pfefferle
GWG I get a lot of warnings/errors if I disable/enable some parts
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pfefferle
GWG ah and you have to set a size for the picture to display them!
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pfefferle
GWG ok, I understand, I understand… Nice work! (now that I found out how to customize it ;) )
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GWG
pfefferle: Remind me to set a default for that picture size
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GWG
I've discovered I've fiddled with the settings so much, my database has them, so I can't see what a clean install looks like. There must be a way to test for that.
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pfefferle
GWG but I am still not sure what the Walker is for...
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GWG
pfefferle: What the WordPress Comment Walker does, or what my extension of it does?
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pfefferle
GWG and we shouldn’t replace the comment template because it might break a lot of styles
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GWG
pfefferle: That is why I tried to split the functionality up into pieces that could be enabled/disabled.
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GWG
So, the walker can be used to override the rendering of comments within an existing comment template.
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GWG
Where if you want to split your comments by type...you need a custom template.
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GWG
And, with a custom comment walker over a custom callback function, a custom callback function can still override it.
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GWG
pfefferle: The Codex described a comment walker as the "primary method of customizing comment html"
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ben_thatmustbeme
!tell snarfed oh yeah, loqi doesn't seem to do well with the multiple messages btw. It reports it to one of those people listed instead of all
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk
good morning
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Loqi
aaronpk: snarfed left you a message 11 hours, 16 minutes ago: hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
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ben_thatmustbeme
then again, maybe i lie
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ben_thatmustbeme
loqi just didn't feel like giving me that message
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Loqi
woot!
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ben_thatmustbeme
loqi, is my name too long for you?
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ben_thatmust
how about now
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ben_thatmust
loqi playback?
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aaronpk
lol i don't know why he doesn't like you
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ben_thatmustbeme
its because i said i like ruby and not perl
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aaronpk
oh it's your underscore!
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aaronpk
gets out his toolbox
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aaronpk
say something now
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cweiske
fe.de.ra.ti.on
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ben_thatmustbeme
something now
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme: tantek left you a message on 9/30 at 2:47pm: I'm not going to edit your changes to reply-thread / history-thread without first discussing with you and seeing if we can figure out what was confusing and debate which terms better reflect what is going. I updated /reply-context dfn/summary a bit - please take a look.
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ben_thatmustbeme
great success
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme: KevinMarks_ left you a message on 10/22 at 4:30pm: Android apps can claim http URL fragmentt as intents, so an app can take over, say, https://twitter.com/intent/tweet/ or anything from twitter.com
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme: GWG left you a message on 11/6 at 10:13am: Need to make plans
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme: GWG left you a message on 11/6 at 10:13am: Need to make plans
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme: GWG left you a message 3 weeks, 3 days ago: I think aaronpk is looking to upgrade
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme: snarfed left you a message 11 hours, 26 minutes ago: hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme: GWG left you a message 3 weeks, 3 days ago: I think aaronpk is looking to upgrade
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme: GWG left you a message 3 weeks, 3 days ago: I think aaronpk is looking to upgrade
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme: snarfed left you a message 11 hours, 26 minutes ago: hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme: snarfed left you a message 11 hours, 26 minutes ago: hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme: snarfed left you a message 11 hours, 26 minutes ago: hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
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Loqi
awesome
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ben_thatmustbeme
i'm afraid to change nicks
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Loqi
ben_thatmust: GWG left you a message on 11/6 at 10:13am: Need to make plans
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Loqi
ben_thatmust: KevinMarks_ left you a message 3 weeks, 4 days ago: I have an Android notify app built for twitter that I'd like to add webmention support to - let's collaborate
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Loqi
ben_thatmust: KevinMarks_ left you a message 3 weeks, 4 days ago: I have an Android notify app built for twitter that I'd like to add webmention support to - let's collaborate
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Loqi
ben_thatmust: tantek left you a message on 1/4 at 9:33am: great job on your first /checkin post! btmb.me/s/5p - I tried URL trimming to https://ben.thatmustbe.me/checkin/ and got 404 - do you have a checkin stream?
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Loqi
ben_thatmust: tantek left you a message on 1/4 at 9:33am: great job on your first /checkin post! btmb.me/s/5p - I tried URL trimming to https://ben.thatmustbe.me/checkin/ and got 404 - do you have a checkin stream?
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Loqi
ben_thatmust: tantek left you a message 1 week, 2 days ago: looks like your post https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2015/1/11/1/ is claiming to 202 a webmention attempt, but it never shows up: http://tantek.com/2015/013/f40
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Loqi
ben_thatmust: tantek left you a message 1 week, 2 days ago: looks like your post https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2015/1/11/1/ is claiming to 202 a webmention attempt, but it never shows up: http://tantek.com/2015/013/f40
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Loqi
ben_thatmust: snarfed left you a message 11 hours, 27 minutes ago: hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
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Loqi
ben_thatmust: snarfed left you a message 11 hours, 27 minutes ago: hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
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aaronpk
anyone else use an underscore in their nick?
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ben_thatmustbeme
next time KevinMarks_ or benward____ speaks they may have some long playback too
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aaronpk
no those should work fine
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aaronpk
the point of the underscore trick Loqi was doing was to protect against people with trailing underscores
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ben_thatmustbeme
odd i got doubles of a number of those
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bret
dont fear the playback
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aaronpk
and also for people who do things like aaronpk|m or aaronpk|away
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aaronpk
or bret~afk and stuff
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bret
does my name change to afk?
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ben_thatmustbeme
loic_m is the only other person i see with an underscore in the middle atm
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GWG
Pfefferle, I am going to back burner the semantics conversation and finish up with the Indieweb plugin and the starter theme work
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pfefferle
GWG what means ”žback burner“?
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GWG
Pfefferle, focus on the other projects and not on the semantics idea right now
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pfefferle
GWG ok… and I will do vice versa :)
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pfefferle
GWG will have a closer look at the code… love the general idea and the idea of copying some parts to the linkback plugin
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GWG
Pfefferle, I also still have a pull request
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GWG
Pfefferle, the Indieweb plugin just needs one more text revision based on the collaboration I got in here
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GWG
Also need to read how to use Grunt
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GWG
The starter theme work is nearly done for now.
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GWG
Probably will finish this weekend
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GWG
Pfefferle, did I show you the latest feature I was adding to the starter theme?
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GWG
Pfefferle, as for the semantics stuff, will continue to brainstorm
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pfefferle
GWG I am not sure… which feature exactly
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GWG
Pfefferle, go to tiny.n9n.us and click on a photo
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pfefferle
GWG oh nice, a lightbox
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GWG
pfefferle: It is all CSS
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pfefferle
really?
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pfefferle
awesome!
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GWG
Yes, found someone who had a great library for it
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aaronpk
whoa, it works with noscript
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aaronpk
bookmarked
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GWG
I'm just worried about mf2 markup
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GWG
Since the html for the modal is in the page, I'm afraid it could lead to duplication
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ben_thatmustbeme
bookmarked as well
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aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: why do you have "bookmark" twice in the url?
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ben_thatmustbeme
yeah i just noticed that
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ben_thatmustbeme
i had been defaulting slug to things for a while there, i think that can be dumped now that i support blank slug properly
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GWG
Aaronpk, ben_thatmustbeme: Looking forward to seeing what you do with it.
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Loqi
yay!
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tantek
good morning #indiewebcamp!
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Loqi
tantek: snarfed left you a message 12 hours, 18 minutes ago: hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
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Loqi
tantek: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 2 hours, 5 minutes ago: facepile looks good, sorry I missed a few people from that list, took me some time to clean it all up and sort alphabetically and all
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ben_thatmustbeme
good morning
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme++ great work on adding so many people to the facepile
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme has 41 karma
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tantek
kylewm++ you too!
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Loqi
dude
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tantek
snarfed asking the tough and thoughtful questions :)
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tantek
slowly but surely the pieces of a 2014 IndieWeb in review post are coming together
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tantek
kylewm++ thanks again for adding bunches of faces
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Loqi
kylewm has 104 karma
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tantek
I'm going to take a break from design iterations on my "like" posts. I haven't quite coded up everything I brainstormed, but I'm pretty happy with how it is now.
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tantek
The next two design improvements for sequential likes (numbering consecutive items of the same type, further clustering of sets of consecutive items of the same type from the same source with a leading count, and parenthesizing such sets) are will take a bit more code, so I'm going to reflect on them a bit to see if I can think of anything better. http://indiewebcamp.com/like#Brainstorming
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aaronpk
tantek: really happy about all your research on clustering likes
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tantek
thanks!
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aaronpk
I don't expect to render my own content that way, but will likely use it in a reader and also considering creating an "activity" page that shows my content all in that form
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tantek
I've only done *some* research because there are very few silos that seem to do it
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tantek
most of what I did in Brainstorming is design I came up with by iterating with my own likes
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tantek
and there are interesting design challenges/opportunities in particular for indieweb likes where you can like things *anywhere* on the web
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tantek
especially from the same person across different sites
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tantek
!tell snarfed speaking of PESOS for Bridgy Publish, any thought to a "Bridgy Reader" feature for providing an h-feed of silo profiles of people you (want to) follow? E.g. non-authenticated conversion for public profiles, and if the profile is private, then attempt to do so with silo credentials given to Bridgy?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek
aaronpk - in particular a lot of my design thinking for "like" posts were very much author-(liker-)centric
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aaronpk
i've made a design decision of not including third-party language on content I create on my site (so you won't see text like "aaron liked this" or "aaron posted an article")
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aaronpk
but i've been thinking about adding a page as an experiment which turns *all* my content into that
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aaronpk
like one giant feed of everything on my site, but clustered and written in third person
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tantek
that is, I wanted to present like posts in a way which made me less hesitant to like stuff (like unafraid of or minimizing the feeling of "spamming" my home page with likes)
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tantek
aaronpk I too don't like referring to myself in 3rd person in posts
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tantek
however the implied 3rd person "likes …" or "liked …" seems fine to me
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aaronpk
i'm imagining that kind of phrasing and clustering would work great in a reader
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tantek
it would - but the reader would have to do all the work
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tantek
since we don't have any way of doing such clustering in any of the feed formats
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aaronpk
that's the point
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aaronpk
because it might also cluster across different websites
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aaronpk
such as "tantek and aaronpk liked a post by snarfed"
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tantek
as it is I was pretty impressed I was able to figure out HTML markup to both do the clustering on my home page presentationally, AND provide individual self-standing h-entry items!
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aaronpk
indeed, i'm impressed that works
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tantek
ah, the many authors liked the same post thing
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tantek
where have you seen that in silos? I've only see it in IG
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aaronpk
twitter does it in the notifications tab too
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aaronpk
"barry and 3 others favorited your tweet"
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aaronpk
or checkins, "aaronpk and tantek checked in to whole foods market"
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tantek
hmm - if you could capture some screenshots of that and add it to /favorite that would be great!
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tantek
wait where do you see the checkin clustering?
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tantek
not in Swarm any more
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tantek
er not in 4sq
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aaronpk
not anymore sadly
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aaronparecki.com
edited /favorite (+177) "/* Twitter */ favorite clustering"
(view diff)
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tantek
aaronpk, maybe datestamp that upload, since Twitter UI changes so much? And every iteration is worth keeping for research reasons.
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aaronparecki.com
edited /favorite (+30) "add date"
(view diff)
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tantek
and move the upload file to a new name
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tantek
it's not because you have to dig for it, and the generic name implies "current"ness (or that it should be current)
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tantek.com
edited /like (+593) "/* Instagram */ Instagram followings activity"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
whoa, there's a /like and a /favorite page?
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tantek
aaronpk - yes of course!
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aaronpk
i still don't really understand the difference
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tantek
people treat them differently (somewhat), and silos design for them differently (slightly)
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tantek
there isn't one "the" difference
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aaronpk
are there any silos that support both?
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tantek
there are many shades of differences
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tantek
500px has "heart" as well as "like"
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tantek
aaronpk - the biggest *common* difference that I know if is that /favorite puts things in a collection that is almost always public, and browsable
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tantek
whereas /like is more stream-like
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aaronpk
interesting
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tantek
and I don't know of any site that provides a user/likes tab where you can look at all of someone's "likes"
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tantek
s/site/silo
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: and I don't know of any silo that provides a user/likes tab where you can look at all of someone's "likes"
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KevinMarks_
google reader had both I think
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Loqi
KevinMarks_: colintedford left you a message 1 week ago: For the fragmentions icon, maybe some combo of a quotation mark + a link icon? Rough idea @ http://test.colintedford.com/s/2014/fragicon.html but I'm sure someone could do better.
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KevinMarks_
as it had about 4 ways of interacting
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Loqi
KevinMarks_: tantek left you a message on 11/5 at 2:03pm: what was that article you cited that said something like "if you have to moderate the trolling, the trolling has already succeeded." ?
caseorganic joined the channel
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Loqi
is done
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aaronpk
apparently the underscore issue did in fact affect people with trailing underscores
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tantek
KevinMarks - if you can dig up old screenshots of Google Reader to substantiate that, we can add them as legacy examples
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tantek_
hey Loqi
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tantek__
hey Loqi!
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tantek___
hey Loqi!!!
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bupkes
hooray now i have a place where all my microbloggy bits go http://bupk.es/blog/type/status/
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tantek
neat!
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tantek
bupkes++
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Loqi
bupkes has 1 karma
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bupkes
ha thanks :) (not sure what that means but it sounds good :))
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tantek
bupkes - consider adding rel=syndication links from your posts e.g. http://bupk.es/blog/2015/01/23/30/ to their Twitter POSSE copy e.g. https://twitter.com/bupk_es/status/558514579957760000 with some text like "Also on Twitter"
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tantek
e.g. Also <a class="u-syndication" href="https://twitter.com/bupk_es/status/558514579957760000">on Twitter</a>
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tantek
somewhere inside your h-entry on http://bupk.es/blog/2015/01/23/30/
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bupkes
ok writing that down...
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bupkes
so i guess I'd need to back in afterwards and add that manually?
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bupkes
btw thanks for the advice, tantek
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tantek
bupkes you may be able to modify whatever it is that is calling Bridgy for you to take the result from Bridgy and add it to your post automatically
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tantek
s/Bridgy/Bridgy Publish
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: bupkes you may be able to modify whatever it is that is calling Bridgy Publish for you to take the result from Bridgy Publish and add it to your post automatically
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tantek
hmm we really should either expand /syndication or create a /u-syndication page that explains Why and How to add u-syndication markup
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bupkes
ok i'm going to try that...
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tantek
wow that info is spread around a bunch of pages
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tantek
bupkes - apologies for the transitional/disparate state of the docs on u-syndication
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tantek
basically, all three of these pages are worth reading: Why: http://indiewebcamp.com/syndication-link-use-cases , Who and How: http://indiewebcamp.com/posts-elsewhere , and overview http://indiewebcamp.com/syndication
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tantek
wow I don't even: http://mashable.com/2015/01/22/twitter-instagram-photos/ (catching up from logs I think)
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aaronpk
lol I like how the example screenshot shows 1 RT and 1 fav on the post with the instagram link and 3.3M RTs on the native photo post
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tantek
aaronpk HAH! good catch. that is hilarious. totally photo shopped :P
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tantek
"Instagram continued to increase in popularity, thanks in part to its acquisition by Facebook, and likely recently overtook Twitter in monthly active users. " <--- WAT!
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tantek
doesn't the Instagram >--- ownyourgram --> personal site >---- POSSE tweet+photo ---> Twitter approach solve this problem?
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tantek
instead of directly cross-posting from IG?
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tantek
aaronpk - you should totally write a blog post response to this
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aaronpk
i still haven't automated that but I really want to
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tantek
oh I thought you had!
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aaronpk
the few photos I post to twitter i've had to do manually
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tantek
well here's a good excuse to do so! and then write about how to do so "instead of posting directly on twitter" ;)
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aaronpk
hmm does bridgy publish support photo posts?
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tantek
to Twitter? good question. kylewm snarfed?
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aaronpk
apparently yes
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tantek
nice!
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aaronpk
hmm I may have a short path to this then
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aaronpk
oh right i've been avoiding bridgy publish because of the security issue
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tantek
aaronpk what security issue?
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bupkes
tantek: nope, i can't seem to do it automatically (i'm not really much of a coder). quite happy to do it manually as I'm not all that prolific a poster anyway
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aaronpk
i can send a webmention for any post that bridgy publish has already posted and cause bridgyt o tweet it out again
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: please add that to /YouTube#Criticism
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aaronpk
like on other peoples' accounts
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tantek
"I decided in 2005 to self-publish rather than chase after a record deal. I am independent because I didn’t want a bunch of men in suits deciding how I should release my music"
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tantek
THIS: "The people who work at Google, Facebook, etc can’t imagine how everything they make is not, like, totally awesome. If it’s not awesome for you it’s because you just don’t understand it yet and you’ll come around."
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snarfed
aaronpk: not exactly. bridgy won't re publish posts it's already published once
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Loqi
snarfed: gRegor` left you a message 12 hours, 41 minutes ago: I'm about 1,000 miles from having micropub support. Just not an itch for me currently or in the near future. So I guess I don't have strong opinions on Bridgy PESOS
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Loqi
snarfed: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 2 hours, 39 minutes ago: oh yeah, loqi doesn't seem to do well with the multiple messages btw. It reports it to one of those people listed instead of all
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Loqi
snarfed: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 11 minutes ago: speaking of PESOS for Bridgy Publish, any thought to a "Bridgy Reader" feature for providing an h-feed of silo profiles of people you (want to) follow? E.g. non-authenticated conversion for public profiles, and if the profile is private, then attempt to do so with silo credentials given to Bridgy?
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aaronpk
oh I thought we had demonstrated that before
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snarfed
the problem is that you can make it posse a post that someone *didn't* posse to a given silo
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aaronpk
oh wait, it *doesn't* require that you add a link to the bridgy publish URL on the post you're trying to POSSE?
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snarfed
(ie they posted it on their site, just chose not to posse)
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snarfed
no, doesn't require that
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aaronpk
okay so saying that bridgy publish works by sending a webmention is misleading
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aaronpk
because webmention requires the link to exist
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tantek
I've never had to or added such a link to my posts that I've POSSE'd with Bridgy Publish AFAIK
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snarfed
it's an odd threat model, since they did already publish it publicly, as themselves, so it's not so bad... but still
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kartikprabhu.com
edited /YouTube (+91) "/* Issues */"
(view diff)
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snarfed
aarobpk: yes it's an odd wm usage: trigger, not true mention. i discuss it a bit in the docs
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tantek
snarfed - only thing that is odd is that you can cause Bridgy Publish to POSSE to an account that you're not logged into Bridgy Publish with.
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tantek
that is, Bridgy Publish should be acting like a "Twitter app". If you're signed in to Bridgy Publish with Twitter username foo, then you can use Bridgy Publish to post to Twitter username foo
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snarfed
tantek: you have to have enabled publish for that account, but true, you don't have to be logged into it in the browser
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tantek
right, my suggestion is that you should have to be logged into it in the browser
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snarfed
that proposal works for interactive but not automated (webmention)
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snarfed
just a sec, bbiab
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tantek
snarfed: for automated, you have that solved with the requirement of the post to link to Bridgy Publish (which indicates intent of the publisher to use Bridgy Publish to POSSE)
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tantek
thus this "security issue" should be / is solvable
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aaronpk
i guess what i'm saying is that if I can `curl https://www.brid.gy/publish/webmention -d source=http://tantek.com/2015/016/f12 -d target=http://brid.gy/publish/twitter` but tantek's site doesn't actually have a link to brid.gy/publish/twitter then it's not a webmention
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tantek
and thus it shouldn't publish to twitter
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aaronpk
and it should be called the bridgy publish API instead
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tantek
via that curl
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tantek
no I think the link requirement is correct
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tantek
for the curl API
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aaronpk
if the link is required, then it can be called a webmention
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tantek
right
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snarfed
aaronpk: yes, i understand what you're saying. i'm not too concerned whether it's technically called a webmention or not; i just support the http request and standard query params as the trigger
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snarfed
fails at juggling baby and phone and two irc threads
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bupkes
yes that's tricky :)
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aaronpk
I think the link requirement would solve this completely
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aaronpk
since bridgy already won't tweet something it's tweeted before
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: is juggling babies legal?
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snarfed
ok, one down. catching up.
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu: is it illegal?
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KartikPrabhu
point taken
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: wait when did snarfed have babies (plural) ?!?
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snarfed
tantek: aaronpk: re the security issue, i like the bridgy publish link req't. hadn't considered it before, but makes sense. thanks!
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snarfed
only one baby
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KartikPrabhu
yeah but he was juggling it
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tantek
juggling it doesn't make it a plural
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gRegor_
gRegor2
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snarfed
oh also before i forget, bupkes: tantek: you're looking for https://github.com/jihaisse/wordpress-syndication . understands bridgy publish and automatically adds synd links
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gRegor_
(Electric Boogaloo)
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tantek
now to figure out which of the /syndication related pages that should go on
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snarfed
also tantek: re "bridgy reader," http://twitter-activitystreams.appspot.com/ and friends (including fb and ig) already convert silo streams to h-entries etc
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tantek
is "syndication link" a generic and understandable enough term for the hyperlinks people use like "Also on Twitter" or "View on Twitter" or "Reply on Twitter" ?
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snarfed
happily usable in h-feed readers. shrewdness actually already uses the twitter one, maybe more
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aaronpk
syndication link sounds good
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tantek
is thinking of starting /syndication_link as an article to start consolidating those other pages noted above
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tantek
while leaving /syndication as a disambig page
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tantek
what is a syndication link?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "syndication link" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=syndication+link
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gRegor2
Sheesh. gRegor_ and gRegor2 are both Nickserv registered.
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tantek
I have to run, but I can start that page later this afternoon - or if anyone else wants to jump on it, please be my guest!
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aaronpk
so what I was getting at with using bridgy publish, is I could make my micropub endpoint accept "bridgy publish" as a syndication target, adding the invisible publish link, at which point my webmention sender would cause bridgy to post that to twitter for me
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snarfed
aaronpk: exactly! that's a big reason why i used webmention as the trigger
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snarfed
so many people could start doing it with no new code
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snarfed
that should work now
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tantek
for /syndication_link, use/source/incorporate material from http://indiewebcamp.com/syndication-link-use-cases , Who and How: http://indiewebcamp.com/posts-elsewhere , and http://indiewebcamp.com/rel-syndication (but leave those pages as "main" for their own subtopics)
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aaronpk
yeah I like that about it
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snarfed
also aaronpk: thanks for the feedback on the pesos article. i think the only big remaining hurdle is that i don't have the bandwidth to do it myself right now :P
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aaronpk
the link to the publish URL should be required, and then as a potential alternate method you could allow people to publish posts that don't have that link if they're authenticated somehow
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aaronpk
if that use case is still important
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snarfed
nah i don't care about the latter use case
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aaronpk
okay cool
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snarfed
this is great, closes that "hole"
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tantek
wait - that use case is solved via the web UI for Bridgy Publish isn't it?
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aaronpk
there's a web UI for bridgy publish?
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snarfed
ahahahahahahahaha
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tantek
it's the only thing I've used!
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tantek
(of Bridgy Publish)
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snarfed
aaronpk doesn't have publish enabled so he's never seen it
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aaronpk
so it should be fine to still allow publishing that way, just only for the person who's logged in
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tantek
which is what I said ;)
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aaronpk
i didn't even know that was a thing
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aaronpk
i also can't find how to enable bridgy publish from the home page
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snarfed
aaronpk: it's on your user page
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snarfed
bridgy's web ui ranges from mediocre to awful
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snarfed
chalk that part up as awful
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aaronpk
ohh crazy
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aaronpk
how does it decide whether to include the link if sent via a webemtion?
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snarfed
extra nonstandard query param
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snarfed
refrains from saying rtfm :P
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aaronpk
reads FAQ
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snarfed
beat me to it
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ben_thatmustbeme
snarfed are you getting my webmentions?
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snarfed
ben_thatmustbeme: maybe! my site caches overaggressively, so if you're not seeing them, that's why
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snarfed
ben_thatmustbeme: where?
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aaronpk
so I could add this to my post? <a href="http://www.brid.gy/publish/twitter" class="u-bridgy-omit-link"></a>
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snarfed
aaronpk: yup
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snarfed
all of mine do that
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ben_thatmustbeme
snarfed, i believe it should have sent, i don't think its caching though
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snarfed
ben_thatmustbeme: it was. flushed. thanks!
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snarfed
re splitting it up, i like the sentiment, but it's not really a problem that needs to be solved right now
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snarfed
the code base and architecture aren't unmanageably big (yet)
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snarfed
and re indie readers and one-click actions, i'm all for those! but they're *still* not here, and they'll require micropub and indie-config, which very few sites have implemented
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snarfed
if/when those are available and good, though, including on mobile, i'd happily ditch bridgy publish pesos
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aaronpk
omit link didn't work, but the photo did!
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aaronpk
oh wait nvm my bad
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snarfed
yay props to emmak for adding photo support to bridgy publish
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Loqi
does a happy dance!
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KevinMarks_
did shrewdness die?
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snarfed
aaronpk: huh. which account did you try bridgy publish on?
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snarfed
ah, indiewebcat
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aaronpk
if I delete teh tweet and try to republish will it let me? or will it not publish because it knows it has already?
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aaronpk
ah I hav eto add special handling anyway in order to be able to add the twitter syndication link that bridgy returns in the webmention response
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snarfed
aaronpk: it won't let you
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aaronpk
with twitter the response is exactly the tweet object? or has a "url" like the fb example and also includes the twee object?
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snarfed
double checking
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snarfed
er, so, the latter
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snarfed
you can see it in the log link on the bridgy user page
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colintedford.com
edited /Tumblr (+218) "/* POSSE to Tumblr */ Citation for RSS import feature removal"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
i don't understand the syntax
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aaronpk
some of the things have a "u" befor ethem
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snarfed
yeah, python dict
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snarfed
ignore the u
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aaronpk
but why doesn't url have the u before it?
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snarfed
wasn't a unicode instance
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snarfed
srsly, ignore :P
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aaronpk
okay so the response is the twitter object directly, which happens to have a "url" property?
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snarfed
yeah. either the tweet object includes it, or i added it
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snarfed
probably the latter
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aaronpk
so it's safe to assume there will always be a "url" property regardless of where it's publishing to?
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snarfed
yeah, i think i say in the docs that i guarantee that
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snarfed
also "id"
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snarfed
for objects that have them
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snarfed
searches for someone he can pay to implement bridgy publish
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snarfed
(er, pesos)
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aaronpk
sadly I don't know any python
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snarfed
hah, not to mention i doubt you have a ton of free time
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snarfed
thanks though!
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@veganstraightedge
Silo subdomains are part of the problem. #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/558709106010095616)
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snarfed
aaronpk: you're just experimenting, right? since you already have fb and tw posse?
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aaronpk
i don't have photo posse at all
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aaronpk
and haven't connected the POSSE I do have to my micropub endpoint yet
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emmak
what is indie config?
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Loqi
indie-config is a method of using protocol handlers and postmessage to setup your indie website to both notify the browser that it can handle webactions and then do so https://indiewebcamp.com/indie-config
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snarfed
still, feel free to use bridgy publish, obviously
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snarfed
emmak++ for that
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Loqi
emmak has 11 karma
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aaronpk
omit link isn't working for me
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aaronpk
oh i'm an idiot again
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tantek
aaronpk, re: http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/01/22/1/why-not-json - I'd even say protocol buffers, and the follow-up to them (what were they called) are also an attempt at JSON replacement. And this lolworthy stackoverflow thread: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14028293/google-protocol-buffers-vs-json-vs-xml
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aaronpk
OH forgot about protocol buffers thanks
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ben_thatmustbeme
ack, need to catch up on a lot
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tantek
and https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/protobuf/KYyVszKaogU "good to see some real interest in alternatives to XML finally.
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tantek
I've been working on a similar project to Protocol Buffers for years
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tantek
now called Argot" (lol. "back in my garage I've been tinkering…")
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snarfed
tantek: aaronpk: cap'n proto
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tantek
is that not a person?
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snarfed
lol no
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tantek
then that's a crappy name
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snarfed
but same author who did protobufs at google and now sandstorm
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snarfed
heh maybe so
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tantek
aaronpk another citation http://blog.codeclimate.com/blog/2014/06/05/choose-protocol-buffers/ "5 Reasons to Use Protocol Buffers Instead of JSON For Your Next Service"
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tantek
snarfed - huh - no mention of cap'n proto on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_Buffers - perhaps you could fix?
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aaronpk
also I forgot I had written that post yesterday cause I wrote it after coming back from the dentist on xanax
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tantek
aaronpk, for a good time, pick one of these at random: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_data_serialization_formats :D
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snarfed
tantek: cap'n proto is non-google, so just spiritual successor, not official
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tantek
by spiritual did you mean "technical" ?!
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snarfed
hmm. i wonder how hard it would be to get ifttt to add a micropub channel. that would maybe get us pesos-to-micropub partly for free
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snarfed
yup that
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aaronpk
snarfed: that'd be awesome. unfortunately it would be quite hard
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snarfed
kenton's very competent
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snarfed
sigh yeah
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aaronpk
they are not very excited abotu adding new channels ad hoc
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snarfed
i take it you know from experience :/
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tantek
snarfed - indeed - I filed a pull-request for him to add webmention support to his blogging engine Hacker CMS and he followed up with a challenging reply: https://github.com/kentonv/ssjekyll/issues/3
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk, btw if you want, i modified mention-client slightly to record any syndication urls returned
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tantek
not sure how to incorporate his needs into webmention
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aaronpk
we had talked briefly about adding a geoloqi channel way back in the day. but the beeminder folks have been trying hard for a long time to get added as a channel.
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tantek
huh, why is IFTTT a gatekeeper?
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aaronpk
because they have to write code to support additional silos
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tantek
aaronpk, perhaps add something about "difficult to get added as a channel" to /IFTTT#Issues ?
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snarfed
there are open source alternatives that come with silo plugins. ifttt just has good ux, especially for non-technical people
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tantek
since it sounds like you have real world examples
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aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: interesting!
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ben_thatmustbeme
after sending i just do $urls = $client->getReturnedUrls();
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ben_thatmustbeme
although i think that one actually has some other changes now to support vouch and such
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aaronpk
is thinking about making ownyourgram send syndicate-to parameters
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ben_thatmustbeme
that would be great
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ben_thatmustbeme
i was going to ask you about that actually
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aaronpk
can't think of a way to do that per photo
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ben_thatmustbeme
if i could log in to ownyourgram and tell it where to push for all photos it sends
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snarfed
aaronpk: hashtag?
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snarfed
annoying for followers, but meh
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ben_thatmustbeme
right now i have it hard-coded to send all to twitter, but now that i have my android app, I can stop that
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aaronpk
yeah i've seen people do that for other silo tools
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aaronpk
kinda ugly though
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ben_thatmustbeme
i don't think you can per post
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aaronpk
if I could update comments, I could do something like have the person put +tw and then remove that from the comment
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snarfed
if you want to syndicate, publish the photo on an even-numbered second. if not, publish on odd-numbered second.
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aaronpk
snarfed++
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Loqi
snarfed has 77 karma
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aaronpk
but anyway all-or-nothing syndication would be better than nothing
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snarfed
aaronpk: the one writable part of ig's api is like. maybe use that? you do just need a boolean signal after all
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tantek
aaronpk - why not re-use u-syndication as a param for ownyourgram?
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aaronpk
like your post to syndicate it to twitter? haha
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snarfed
but hey, it'd work
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aaronpk
tantek: what do you mean?
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snarfed
and unlike it afterward
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snarfed
(programmaticcally)
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tantek
like if there's a u-syndication param to profile like twitter.com/aaronpk then it does so
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aaronpk
i'm talking about the micropub post ownyourgram makes to create the photo on your site
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tantek
and then fills in the actual POSSE permalink
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aaronpk
i'm not making ownyourgram publish to twitter
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tantek
sorry I was confused
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tantek
oh nm looks like you already solved it
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aaronpk
this is all part of my plan to have @indiewebcat's photos post to twitter automatically
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tantek
something about cats automatically syndicating photos seems quite internet-appropriate
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tantek
and from there, we can only wait for indiewebcat to post the first cat-selfie, to 1-up the monkey-selfie
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tantek
perhaps there needs to be a catstagram iPad (web?) app where the "take photo" button is just a giant square with a mouse running around in it near the camera of the iPad, so by tapping the mouse, the cat takes a selfie.
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tantek
for extra credit, take video of indiewebcat taking the selfie, and post it as proof
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ben_thatmustbeme
hah, surprised there wasn't anything about being a beard
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aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: have you dealt with the problem of php including numeric array indexes when using http_build_query?
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aaronpk
I want the response to be syndicate-to[]=twitter&syndicate-to[]=facebook but i'm getting syndicate-to[0]=twitter etc
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Loqi
gives aaronpk the response to be syndicate
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aaronpk
considering an ugly hack
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aaronpk
the http_build_query function makes it include numeric indices
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ben_thatmustbeme
i cheated and build up an array of "syndicate-to[]=..." then just implode with &
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KevinMarks_
gillmor gang time
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tantek
busy this week KevinMarks_ !
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tantek
ok I got one for you
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tantek.com
created /subtext (+105) "minimal dfn, see also"
(view diff)
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KevinMarks_
just reading that. grrr
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tantek
KevinMarks_: WOW you didn't see that til just now? You're the big @zoecello fanboy here :)
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KevinMarks_
I am but I was reading about her husbands cancer :(
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tantek
yeah :(
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tantek
she's a really good writer, and critic. well-spoken and not ranty at all.
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sparverius
They can’t imagine scenarios outside their reality and that is how they inadvertently unleash things like the algorithmic cruelty of Facebook’s yearly review (which showed me a picture I had posted after a doctor told me my husband had 6-8 weeks to live).
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sparverius
daaaaamn.
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KevinMarks_
benedict evans is on, what should I ask him about?
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tantek
who is he?
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tantek
URL for the show again?
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KevinMarks_
is the chat
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snarfed
hey known users…known doesn't come with the micropub plugin, right? you have to install it separately?
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aaronpk
correct
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KevinMarks_
i think it is there but needs enabling on hosted known
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tantek
perhaps I should reframe "notification first design" to "watch first design"
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tantek
googles
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tantek
correction
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tantek
yahoos.
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tantek
which is actually binging
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aaronpk
how about "search"
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@altjoen
Mobile first is so last month. My next website will be watch-first.
(twitter.com/_/status/513838526811471873)
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@ericweidmann
I'm going to go ahead and coin the term "watch first design" #watchfirstdesign #watchfirst
(twitter.com/_/status/509423001100509184)
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tantek
and that was just from bing search
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tantek
now let's try Twitter search directly
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tantek
wait - was Sep 9 the date the Apple Watch was announced?
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tantek
lots more result on Twitter
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tantek
earliest reference appears to be https://twitter.com/ronniekroon/status/315099072551862273 2013-03-22
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@ronniekroon
Apple, google, samsung rumoured to be working on smart watches... so this time next year (pun intended!) will it be "watch first" design??
(twitter.com/_/status/315099072551862273)
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tantek.com
created /Pebble (+1011) "stub with dfn, indieweb example aaronpk"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /TOTP (+27) "/* See Also */ pebble"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
created /Bluetooth_LE (+65) "stub with wp link"
(view diff)
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consultingcentral.ch
edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (+350) "/* Participants */"
(view diff)
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david.shanske.com
edited /Pebble (+83) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
(view diff)
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GWG
tantek: Can I ask your advice quickly?
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tantek
Good question :)
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GWG
rolls eyes
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GWG
I've been working on a page that has hidden information...which only appears upon click. But a parser would see all of it.
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GWG
I'm concerned about duplicating fields and how to properly mark it up
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tantek
also re: can I ask … : FAQ: tantek.com/w/CommunicationProtocols#Dontaskifyoucanask
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tantek
does this need JS?
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GWG
No. CSS. If you click the images, it pops up a box
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tantek
ok that's really slick
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GWG
The JS is only so Escape and a few other things will work
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GWG
I linked to the library I'm using earlier
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tantek
what's hidden?
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GWG
The content of the modal.
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GWG
It's in the page.
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tantek
is it because it's duplicated?
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GWG
Which means I actually have two images, and possibly two names, etc.
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tantek
I'm not seeing any *new* (thus hidden) information
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GWG
tantek: It is duplicated. Also, two different image files.
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GWG
Due resolutions.
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GWG
But, if I added in the markup for name, location, what have you in future, I'd have duplicated more elements
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tantek
did you look into using srcset btw?
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GWG
tantek: Yes, actually.
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tantek
it sounds like these are photo posts
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tantek
and you have two resolutions you are presenting
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GWG
tantek: They are indeed
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GWG
Yes
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tantek
is one of them a "thumbnail"?
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GWG
But I don't know how to mark them up
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tantek
and the other the "actual" photo?
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tantek
right, hence I'm asking what they mean first
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GWG
tantek: Right now, both are reduced image sizes.
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tantek
by understanding what they mean, we can then determine how such meaning should be marked up
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GWG
WordPress autogenerates 3 sizes for every uploaded photo. I used two of the sizes in the test. But there are more.
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KevinMarks_
that for the facepiles would be interesting
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tantek
GWG, this is a good real world test case
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GWG
KevinMarks_: I have ideas about that.
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tantek
semantically I think you should be using srcset to markup all three of the images
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KevinMarks_
especially as (in the case I am using) they have huge src images
wolftune joined the channel
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GWG
tantek: The problem was..on the archive views, I wanted it to be smaller. I wanted the larger either to pop up, or to display on the single post view
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GWG
So, I have 2 different versions of how the page is supposed to display
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tantek
once you figure out how to mark it up with img srcset, then the next question is, is there a use-case for marking it up with microformats
friedcell joined the channel
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tantek
i.e. is there a use-case for a consuming site/app to get the diffierent resolutions of a photo?
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KevinMarks_
thumbnail + full yes
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GWG
tantek: Well, the same as my use case....single post view and archive view.
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KevinMarks_
though thumbnail may be a crop
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tantek
KevinMarks - let's solve the simpler use-case first
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tantek
when someone here wants to start publishing crops as thumbnails, we can look at it then
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tantek
AKA responsive images
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snarfed
tantek++
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snarfed
dontaskifyoucanask++
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Loqi
tantek has 142 karma
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Loqi
dontaskifyoucanask has 1 karma
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KevinMarks_
right, I'm thinking of the silo ux precedent - twitter crops then allows full
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KevinMarks_
pinterest doesn't crop
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KevinMarks_
thats the closest succesful precedent to this model
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KevinMarks_
actually it does at the board view level: http://www.pinterest.com/kevinmarks/
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tantek
what is a thumbnail?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "thumbnail" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=thumbnail
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tantek
KevinMarks ^^^ please document silo thumbnail behavior
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GWG
Responsive images are going to be a problem for me.
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bret.io
created /pebble (+218) "Stubbed"
(view diff)
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bret
oops
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bret
fixing
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bret
ill just redirect
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bret.io
edited /pebble (-198) "Redirected page to [[Pebble]]"
(view diff)
friedcell1 joined the channel
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GWG
tantek: I think I can go srcset limitedly for the single view, but I'd want a different size displayed on the archive view, which goes back to the initial problem
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tantek
I don't think it does
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tantek
in both cases you should use src-set
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tantek
then in the permalink view, presumably you style the image to have more space
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tantek
except perhaps on smaller screens, then you style the image to have less space
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tantek
then with srcset - let the browser pick the right resolution for whatever room you have for it
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tantek
automatically
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tantek
once you have this working presentationally, then we can see what we need to do in terms of microformats markup of it
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GWG
I'll mock it up. That's why I have a test site. To see how things look before I deploy them
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tantek
and more interestingly, what an indie reader of photo posts would need to "do the right thing" depending on what screen dimensions the reader was using
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tantek
GWG - yes of course - mocking up srcset on your test site makes the most sense
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tantek
great
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tantek
btw - srcset / responsive images are certainly not quick questions, however, they are quite interesting/challenging and something we should figure out!
#
tantek
so thanks for asking!
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tantek
questions++
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Loqi
questions has 1 karma
#
tantek
(point is, I appreciate your questions GWG whether or not you think they may be quick or not)
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GWG
tantek: I still wonder if that means I should dump the popup....which I sort of liked as an effect. But I can always just...not mark it up, I suppose.
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tantek
GWG by "popup" you mean "lightbox" right?
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GWG
tantek: Yes, modal, lightbox...what have you.
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tantek
the goal would be to still have the lightbox work, but on top of the srcset markup
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GWG
tantek: I usually don't realize how complex questions can be
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tantek
right! that's an important insight.
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GWG
I'm going to make something to eat, take out the garbage and play with srcset
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tantek
thus better to just ask
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tantek
great
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GWG
It isn't far off from what I had been playing with. I already had picturefill loaded.
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tantek
btw be sure to check your use of srcset with a browser that supports it (I think you have to turn it on with a flag in Firefox) http://caniuse.com/srcset
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GWG
It was on my radar anyway
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GWG
Already turned the flag on.
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GWG
And the picturefill js enables it if the browser doesn't.
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GWG
I wonder how you check srcset is working
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tantek.com
edited /Pebble (+39) "heading for GWG, since 2014-??-??"
(view diff)
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tantek
GWG, how does Pushover work with Pebble?
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tantek
Could you explain in a sentence or two here? https://indiewebcamp.com/Pebble#Tools
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GWG
tantek, the Pushover app for Android has Pebble support built in
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tantek
Great - add that!
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GWG
aaronpk uses an iPhone? Because I don't know if it has the same
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GWG
Fo we have an Android wear page?
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tantek
the point is - document what works for you, don't worry about covering all the cases
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tantek
document what works for you with Pebble in particular
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GWG
I also have a refurbished Lg G watch
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tantek
what is a smart watch?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "smart watch" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=smart+watch
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tantek
GWG perhaps you could stub ^^^ ?
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GWG
Will give it a shot
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GWG
The thing is to identify what makes something useful beyond the gimmicks
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tantek
The thing is to come up with a short one sentence summary of it is, ignoring what it is not, or what it could be.
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GWG
Tantek, what is it?
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tantek
whatever you're stubbing
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GWG
I meant what is a smart watch