#indiewebcamp 2015-01-23

2015-01-23 UTC
snarfed and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
kylewm.com edited /2014-review (+124) "/* This Is A Movement */ fill in some missing images" (view diff)
#
kylewm.com edited /2014-review (+26) "/* This Is A Movement */ fill in last 2 images, not ideal" (view diff)
gRegor` joined the channel
#
gRegor` Looks like ben_thatmustbeme got the template set up already. Less work for me! :) Nice work.
#
gregorlove.com edited /2014-review (+108) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ Chicago" (view diff)
#
www.clintpatty.com edited /Known (+63) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
#
kylewm does http://www.wired.com/2014/11/indie-hosters/ count as a post about the indieweb? (I think yes)
#
aaronpk sure!
#
kylewm.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+314) "/* 2014 */ add Wired articles about Known and IndieHosters" (view diff)
#
Loqi [mention] Kyle Mahan commented 'Welcome! There are a lot of moving parts and a lot of jargon, don’t worry about not getting it all at once. Getting Started and Indiewebify....' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting%20Started (https://kylewm.com/2015/01/welcome-there-are-a-lot-of-moving-parts-and-a-lot)
shiflett, veselosky, arlen, wolftune, scor, jacus, prtksxna, renoirb, mlncn and j12t joined the channel
#
@NurtureGirl When is the next SF #indiewebcamp homebrew website meetup thingy @kevinmarks ? (twitter.com/_/status/558470504647254016)
#
@kevinmarks @NurtureGirl next Wednesday - they're every 2 weeks http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/558471528828780545)
KevinMarks__ joined the channel
#
KevinMarks__ You think databases are an antipattern? How about spreadsheets: https://twitter.com/ericries/status/558431420264497153?s=09
#
@ericries I love this list of disasters caused by storing important data (like your cap table) in a spreadsheet: http://www.eusprig.org/horror-stories.htm?utm_content=buffer2b3a1&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer cc @Captable_… (twitter.com/_/status/558431420264497153)
#
aaronpk KevinMarks__: lol I like how one of them says "they will be paying about $400,0000 more over the lifetime..."
#
aaronpk WHAT NUMBER IS $400,0000
gRegor` joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu aaronpk: in europe it is $400
#
KartikPrabhu take that standards
#
aaronpk KartikPrabhu++
#
Loqi KartikPrabhu has 89 karma
#
aaronpk with extra precision
#
KartikPrabhu that is interesting I knew Bitcoin had milli-precision but not $
#
aaronpk i think banks process sub-pennies internally but you don't see that on statements
#
aaronpk but don't quote me on that
#
KartikPrabhu I recall some sci-fi thingie using those milli-precision to commit financial fraud, don't know if that has happened in IRL
#
bear all bank transactions are done to 3 or 4 digits with firm rules on rounding
#
aaronpk of course bear knows
#
bear i've coded *many* accounting systems in my day
#
KartikPrabhu bear: my condolences
#
bear oh yea
#
kylewm KartikPrabhu: I think the scifi you are thinking of is Office Space
#
KartikPrabhu I had to code a mock-stock-trading game in college and it was a nightmare
#
KartikPrabhu kylewm: I was thinking more Ghost in the Shell
#
aaronpk KartikPrabhu: that reminds me of this http://play.elevatorsaga.com/#challenge=1
#
aaronpk thinks this might be off topic
#
KartikPrabhu lol!
#
KartikPrabhu "Elevator Saga" new M. Night Shyamalan movie where one of those people is the Devil
#
KartikPrabhu oops, that is already a movie
#
Loqi [bridgy] Jean M Russell replied '@kevinmarks Great. I plan to be there...and might even bring N. again. You coming? M. is out of town.' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club (https://twitter.com/NurtureGirl/status/558476164742668288)
#
snarfed hey aaronpk, just fyi, the "what's this" link on http://ownyourgram.com/ goes to indieauth
#
aaronpk that is intended
#
aaronpk guess i should make a page on ownyourgram explaining it though
#
snarfed yeah, probably
#
aaronpk issue files
#
aaronpk d
yakker joined the channel
#
Loqi [bridgy] Jean M Russell favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club (https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/558471528828780545)
#
Loqi [bridgy] Kevin Marks replied '@NurtureGirl planning to - we can check the bridgy problems' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club (https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/558477432840138754)
#
snarfed cue the wms in 3…2…1…
#
Loqi [mention] Ryan Barrett posted 'POSSEing silo interactions is getting harder by the day, and Bridgy Publish is suffering as a result. We could fix this by adding an OwnYour...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (https://snarfed.org/)
#
Loqi [mention] Ryan Barrett posted 'POSSEing silo interactions is getting harder by the day, and Bridgy Publish is suffering as a result. We could fix this by adding an OwnYour...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/PESOS (https://snarfed.org/)
#
Loqi [mention] Ryan Barrett posted 'POSSEing silo interactions is getting harder by the day, and Bridgy Publish is suffering as a result. We could fix this by adding an OwnYour...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/ownyourdata (https://snarfed.org/)
#
Loqi [mention] Ryan Barrett posted 'POSSEing silo interactions is getting harder by the day, and Bridgy Publish is suffering as a result. We could fix this by adding an OwnYour...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE#Advantages (https://snarfed.org/)
#
Loqi [mention] Ryan Barrett posted 'POSSEing silo interactions is getting harder by the day, and Bridgy Publish is suffering as a result. We could fix this by adding an OwnYour...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/webactions (https://snarfed.org/)
#
Loqi [mention] Ryan Barrett posted 'POSSEing silo interactions is getting harder by the day, and Bridgy Publish is suffering as a result. We could fix this by adding an OwnYour...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/silo (https://snarfed.org/)
#
Loqi [mention] Ryan Barrett posted 'POSSEing silo interactions is getting harder by the day, and Bridgy Publish is suffering as a result. We could fix this by adding an OwnYour...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/interactions (https://snarfed.org/)
#
Loqi [mention] Ryan Barrett posted 'POSSEing silo interactions is getting harder by the day, and Bridgy Publish is suffering as a result. We could fix this by adding an OwnYour...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/Instagram#API (https://snarfed.org/)
#
Loqi [mention] Ryan Barrett posted 'POSSEing silo interactions is getting harder by the day, and Bridgy Publish is suffering as a result. We could fix this by adding an OwnYour...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/Google%2B#POSSE (https://snarfed.org/)
#
Loqi [mention] Ryan Barrett posted 'POSSEing silo interactions is getting harder by the day, and Bridgy Publish is suffering as a result. We could fix this by adding an OwnYour...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/PESOS#Disadvantages (https://snarfed.org/)
#
Loqi [mention] Ryan Barrett posted 'POSSEing silo interactions is getting harder by the day, and Bridgy Publish is suffering as a result. We could fix this by adding an OwnYour...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#Authentication (https://snarfed.org/)
#
KartikPrabhu should that not link to the post permalink and not snarfed's homepage?
#
snarfed yes, yes it should
#
snarfed post is https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
#
KartikPrabhu snarfed: i idd find it as it was the latest post on homepage
#
aaronpk what happepned!
#
aaronpk some day i will make webmention.io roll those up
gRegor` joined the channel
#
snarfed aaronpk: all valid wms. just the source link is bad
#
snarfed !tell kylewm GWG gRegor` KartikPrabhu aaronpk tantek ben_thatmustbeme barryf hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
snarfed has a sinking feeling he should have comma-separated those usernames...?
#
kylewm let's find out...
#
Loqi kylewm: snarfed left you a message 1 minute ago: GWG gRegor` KartikPrabhu aaronpk tantek ben_thatmustbeme barryf hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
#
GWG Hmm....
#
KartikPrabhu so test
#
KartikPrabhu yeah snarfed that didn't work
#
snarfed !tell kylewm,GWG,gRegor`,KartikPrabhu,aaronpk,tantek,ben_thatmustbeme,ben_thatmust,barryf hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
KevinMarks joined the channel
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
KartikPrabhu hey!
#
KartikPrabhu snarfed: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/re-snarfed-pesos-bridgy the webmention said "200"
#
Loqi KartikPrabhu: snarfed left you a message 23 seconds ago: hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
#
KartikPrabhu snarfed: does the 200 code on webemntion mean it is queued for processing?
#
snarfed nah just lazy caching
#
KartikPrabhu aah ok cool
#
snarfed flushed
#
kylewm snarfed: did you notice my "boop" native comment earlier today?
#
Loqi kylewm: snarfed left you a message 4 minutes ago: hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
#
kylewm it busted the cache on that page :P
#
snarfed kylewm: hey yes!
#
KartikPrabhu man no matter how long I have done this, webmention+federated commenting still looks like magic!
#
Loqi [mention] Ryan Barrett posted 'POSSEing silo interactions is getting harder by the day, and Bridgy Publish is suffering as a result. We could fix this by adding an OwnYour...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#Developer_Relations (https://snarfed.org/)
#
KartikPrabhu snarfed: addendum: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/re-snarfed-pesos-bridgy#Edit
#
snarfed KartikPrabhu: this proposal is primarily for content-free interactions like likes and retweets
#
snarfed and yes, i know you can include content in indie likes/reposts/etc; this is for the times you don't :P
#
KartikPrabhu still Twitter API has sometimes missed "favs" so those ones won't be PESOSed back to my site
#
snarfed but yes, it also includes (contentful) replies, since you can't automatically posse those to G+, IG, and now sometimes FB *at all* :(
#
KartikPrabhu yeah
#
KartikPrabhu but of course go for it if bridgy PESOS has popular demand
#
snarfed igh
#
snarfed er
#
snarfed i *really* don't want to build it…but i do want to use it
#
snarfed btw, cool, i didn't know the WP webmention plugin supported CRUD
#
KartikPrabhu oh so it did update my comment and not make a new one?
#
KartikPrabhu oh yeah it did. nice
#
snarfed yes
#
snarfed re bridgy and twitter api and favorites, those are scraped, not api. the api doesn't expose them per tweet. :/
#
KartikPrabhu hmm yeah so there is also that
#
snarfed it does expose them per user though
#
snarfed (so pesos would work)
#
KartikPrabhu hmmm that might work then
snarfed, cstanhope, pwcc, KevinMarks__ and gRegor` joined the channel
#
gRegor` !tell snarfed I'm about 1,000 miles from having micropub support. Just not an itch for me currently or in the near future. So I guess I don't have strong opinions on Bridgy PESOS
#
Loqi gRegor`: snarfed left you a message 1 hour, 12 minutes ago: hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
wolftune, j12t, tantek, cweiske and bupkes joined the channel
#
@xtof_fr Comment supprimer le `www` sur un domaine ? Coincé sur http://www.ducamp.me/Nowww Cherche un membre #indieweb .. http://xtof.withknown.com/2015/comment-supprimer-le-www-sur-un-domaine-coinc-sur-nowww (twitter.com/_/status/558535920874307585)
krendil and bupkes joined the channel
#
bupkes hi
#
bupkes i've been working on my wp site, just messing around with plugins and such
#
bupkes bupk.es/blog now set up to display only 'proper' blog posts on main page...
#
bupkes ...and 'status' format posts on a sidebar
#
KartikPrabhu ooks good
#
bupkes i'd like to have a page that just shows the status (microblog) posts, but i'll need to dig around a few plugins i think
#
bupkes thanks btw :) (if you were talking to me, kartik)
xtof and loic_m joined the channel
#
xtof loic_m : salut loic !
#
loic_m hello :)
friedcell, eschnou, KartikPrabhu, krendil, LauraJ and pfefferle joined the channel
#
pfefferle good morning indieweb
interactivist, LauraJ and michielbdejong joined the channel
#
@MGZALLP RT @xtof_fr: Comment supprimer le `www` sur un domaine ? Coincé sur http://www.ducamp.me/Nowww Cherche un membre #indieweb .. http://t.co/pE7g… (twitter.com/_/status/558560315697553408)
interactivist, adactio and stream7 joined the channel
#
@kevinmarks Silos gonna silo. http://mashable.com/2015/01/22/twitter-instagram-photos/ maybe twitter needs http://ownyourgram.com #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/558562930388516864)
#
@hybridjesus RT @kevinmarks: Silos gonna silo. http://mashable.com/2015/01/22/twitter-instagram-photos/ maybe twitter needs http://ownyourgram.com #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/558564286726172672)
#
KevinMarks_ can ownyourgram and Known work to PESOS instagram to twitter?
LauraJ joined the channel
#
@roseg RT @kevinmarks: Silos gonna silo. http://mashable.com/2015/01/22/twitter-instagram-photos/ maybe twitter needs http://ownyourgram.com #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/558567480881201155)
sanduhrs joined the channel
#
@xtof_fr @loicmathaud Merci pour tout. Migrations + remaniements prévus ce weekend. À bientôt pour reparler #indiewebcamp in @OpenChateau (twitter.com/_/status/558568127337078784)
LauraJ, davemenninger, pfefferle_ and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
@the_claus RT @kevinmarks: Silos gonna silo. http://mashable.com/2015/01/22/twitter-instagram-photos/ maybe twitter needs http://ownyourgram.com #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/558570483265060864)
Phae and benward______ joined the channel
#
@loicmathaud @xtof_fr @OpenChateau de rien ! Content d'avoir pris contact et au plaisir de reparler d'#indiewebcamp aussi ;) (twitter.com/_/status/558572306856161280)
tommorris, cweiske and musigny joined the channel
#
@AAinslie RT @kevinmarks: Silos gonna silo. http://mashable.com/2015/01/22/twitter-instagram-photos/ maybe twitter needs http://ownyourgram.com #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/558578308473159681)
LauraJ and pfefferle joined the channel
#
@Grisodicomo RT @kevinmarks: Silos gonna silo. http://mashable.com/2015/01/22/twitter-instagram-photos/ maybe twitter needs http://ownyourgram.com/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/558581928639877120)
davemenninger, LauraJ, friedcell, michielbdejong, fiatjaf, scor, cweiske, stream7, interactivist, bupkes, modem, musigny and pfefferle joined the channel
#
bupkes hey, pfefferle
davemenninger joined the channel
#
bupkes I just installed Sempress at my site (bupk.es/blog) thanks for putting it together
#
bupkes (plus the plugins)
#
pfefferle hey bupkes
#
pfefferle thanks :)
#
bupkes :)
#
bupkes I tried making a child theme but i'm too much of a newbie right now, i just made a mess :)
#
pfefferle let me know if you made one! https://github.com/pfefferle/SemPress#child-themes
#
pfefferle jihaisse made a nice and simple one, if you prefer that http://jihais.se
#
bupkes i did but honestly it wasn't fit for public consumption!
#
bupkes ok thanks i'll check it out
#
pfefferle let me know if I can help you with something
friedcell joined the channel
#
@bookprescom All You Need to Know About This Year’s Super Bowl Ads >> http://www.adweek.com/socialtimes/?p=612685&utm_content=buffer89a57&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #SocialMedia Tip from Karen Fratti. #SelfPublish #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/558610296320045056)
#
bupkes thanks very much, that's really kind of you!
michielbdejong, scor, JonathanNeal and veselosky joined the channel
#
fiatjaf does bridgy handle posts from others on your facebook wall?
#
KartikPrabhu fiatjaf: no. bridgy does not double as a "reader"
#
fiatjaf KartikPrabhu: does any service or library do this?
#
GWG Morning
#
Loqi GWG: snarfed left you a message 8 hours, 39 minutes ago: hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
prtksxna and krendil joined the channel
#
fiatjaf oh, just read the PESOS thing about bridgy. it seems it will be impossible to do what I want.
#
KartikPrabhu fiatjaf: not yet afaik
#
@jgmac1106 RT @kevinmarks: Silos gonna silo. http://mashable.com/2015/01/22/twitter-instagram-photos/ maybe twitter needs http://ownyourgram.com #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/558620857401348096)
Sebastien-L and scor joined the channel
#
kylewm fiatjaf: what do you want to do with posts on your wall?
danlyke_, verdi_ and rknLA joined the channel
#
GWG pfefferle: Got a minute?
#
GWG bupkes: Saw you favorited a post of mine
#
pfefferle hey GWG, sure!°
#
GWG pfefferle: I wanted to ask you that consolidation question I started to yesterday
#
fiatjaf.alhur.es edited /questo.email (+1590) (view diff)
#
pfefferle GWG merging the comments plugin into the semantic linkbacks?
#
GWG pfefferle: Some of it, yes.
#
GWG This comes out of the same thought with the Indieweb plugin
#
GWG How do you make things easier for people to use?
#
fiatjaf.alhur.es edited /email (+151) "updated questo.email reference and description." (view diff)
#
GWG I wouldn't suggest merging all of the comment plugin into the Linkbacks plugin, but I think moving some of what I was trying to do upstream would work
LauraJ joined the channel
#
GWG It's the same reason I asked Jihaisse about merging WordPress Syndication and Syndication Links.
#
pfefferle GWG it is a bit hard in its settings
#
pfefferle GWG I don’t like the fact that it disables the comment form completely
#
pfefferle GWG and the avatars doesn’t work on my local installation
#
GWG pfefferle: The problem is how to separate the comment types without overriding the comment form.
#
pfefferle GWG will think about that
#
pfefferle willnorris did something similar
#
GWG pfefferle: I'm suggesting implementing the code in a different way.
#
pfefferle GWG https://github.com/willnorris/willnorris.com-wordpress/blob/master/public/content/mu-plugins/genesis-indieweb.php#L55
#
GWG That requires the Genesis framework.
#
GWG It uses a custom hook.
#
pfefferle GWG wordpress might have a standard hook
bret joined the channel
#
GWG pfefferle: I'll look again. Other than overriding the form completely, so far no.
#
GWG pfefferle: But, that is why I was trying using a new default comment walker.
interactivist joined the channel
#
pfefferle GWG http://codex.wordpress.org/Plugin_API/Filter_Reference/comments_template
#
GWG pfefferle: That's what I use
#
pfefferle and what is the walker doing?
#
GWG https://github.com/dshanske/semantic-comments/blob/master/semantic-comments.php#L37
#
pfefferle GWG and what is this doing?
#
GWG The Walker marks up the individual comments using MF2 and uses the 'short_ping' option to generate the picture only version of the webmention for the facepile.
#
GWG So, if you change that argument to wp_list_comments, then it goes back to the full Linkbacks presentation
#
GWG pfefferle: If you look on the settings page, I have a 'debug' setting for each part of the plugin.
#
GWG You can disable the template and just use the walker, and you can disable the short ping.
#
GWG You can even disable the walker.
#
GWG Of course, if you turn off everything, then it won't work.
#
ben_thatmustbeme good morning all
#
GWG Good morning, ben_thatmustbeme
#
ben_thatmustbeme !tell tantek facepile looks good, sorry I missed a few people from that list, took me some time to clean it all up and sort alphabetically and all
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
#
GWG pfefferle: If I proposed something for integration with Semantic Linkbacks, it would try to be more consistent with how that plugin works anyway.
LauraJ joined the channel
#
pfefferle GWG oh sorry, I haven’t found the settings page
eschnou and mattl joined the channel
#
pfefferle GWG Oh, under the comments part
#
pfefferle GWG I get a lot of warnings/errors if I disable/enable some parts
adactio, mlncn and bupkes joined the channel
#
pfefferle GWG ah and you have to set a size for the picture to display them!
#
pfefferle GWG ok, I understand, I understand… Nice work! (now that I found out how to customize it ;) )
#
GWG pfefferle: Remind me to set a default for that picture size
#
GWG I've discovered I've fiddled with the settings so much, my database has them, so I can't see what a clean install looks like. There must be a way to test for that.
#
pfefferle GWG ok
#
pfefferle GWG but I am still not sure what the Walker is for...
#
GWG pfefferle: What the WordPress Comment Walker does, or what my extension of it does?
#
pfefferle GWG and we shouldn’t replace the comment template because it might break a lot of styles
#
GWG pfefferle: That is why I tried to split the functionality up into pieces that could be enabled/disabled.
#
pfefferle GWG ok
#
GWG So, the walker can be used to override the rendering of comments within an existing comment template.
#
GWG Where if you want to split your comments by type...you need a custom template.
#
GWG And, with a custom comment walker over a custom callback function, a custom callback function can still override it.
#
GWG pfefferle: The Codex described a comment walker as the "primary method of customizing comment html"
prtksxna, mlncn and booly-yam-4259 joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme !tell snarfed oh yeah, loqi doesn't seem to do well with the multiple messages btw. It reports it to one of those people listed instead of all
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
aaronpk good morning
booly-yam-4912 joined the channel
#
Loqi aaronpk: snarfed left you a message 11 hours, 16 minutes ago: hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
#
ben_thatmustbeme then again, maybe i lie
#
ben_thatmustbeme loqi just didn't feel like giving me that message
#
Loqi woot!
#
ben_thatmustbeme loqi, is my name too long for you?
#
ben_thatmust how about now
#
ben_thatmust loqi playback?
#
aaronpk lol i don't know why he doesn't like you
#
ben_thatmustbeme strange
#
ben_thatmustbeme its because i said i like ruby and not perl
#
aaronpk lol
mlncn-agaric joined the channel
#
aaronpk oh it's your underscore!
#
aaronpk gets out his toolbox
#
aaronpk say something now
#
cweiske fe.de.ra.ti.on
#
ben_thatmustbeme something now
#
Loqi ben_thatmustbeme: tantek left you a message on 9/30 at 2:47pm: I'm not going to edit your changes to reply-thread / history-thread without first discussing with you and seeing if we can figure out what was confusing and debate which terms better reflect what is going. I updated /reply-context dfn/summary a bit - please take a look.
#
ben_thatmustbeme haha!
#
aaronpk uhoh
#
ben_thatmustbeme great success
#
Loqi ben_thatmustbeme: KevinMarks_ left you a message on 10/22 at 4:30pm: Android apps can claim http URL fragmentt as intents, so an app can take over, say, https://twitter.com/intent/tweet/ or anything from twitter.com
#
ben_thatmustbeme oh god
#
Loqi ben_thatmustbeme: GWG left you a message on 11/6 at 10:13am: Need to make plans
#
Loqi ben_thatmustbeme: GWG left you a message on 11/6 at 10:13am: Need to make plans
#
Loqi ben_thatmustbeme: GWG left you a message 3 weeks, 3 days ago: I think aaronpk is looking to upgrade
#
Loqi ben_thatmustbeme: snarfed left you a message 11 hours, 26 minutes ago: hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
#
Loqi ben_thatmustbeme: GWG left you a message 3 weeks, 3 days ago: I think aaronpk is looking to upgrade
#
Loqi ben_thatmustbeme: GWG left you a message 3 weeks, 3 days ago: I think aaronpk is looking to upgrade
#
Loqi ben_thatmustbeme: snarfed left you a message 11 hours, 26 minutes ago: hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
#
Loqi ben_thatmustbeme: snarfed left you a message 11 hours, 26 minutes ago: hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
#
Loqi ben_thatmustbeme: snarfed left you a message 11 hours, 26 minutes ago: hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
#
Loqi awesome
#
ben_thatmustbeme i'm afraid to change nicks
#
ben_thatmust playback
#
ben_thatmust ducks
#
Loqi ben_thatmust: GWG left you a message on 11/6 at 10:13am: Need to make plans
#
Loqi ben_thatmust: KevinMarks_ left you a message 3 weeks, 4 days ago: I have an Android notify app built for twitter that I'd like to add webmention support to - let's collaborate
#
Loqi ben_thatmust: KevinMarks_ left you a message 3 weeks, 4 days ago: I have an Android notify app built for twitter that I'd like to add webmention support to - let's collaborate
#
Loqi ben_thatmust: tantek left you a message on 1/4 at 9:33am: great job on your first /checkin post! btmb.me/s/5p - I tried URL trimming to https://ben.thatmustbe.me/checkin/ and got 404 - do you have a checkin stream?
#
Loqi ben_thatmust: tantek left you a message on 1/4 at 9:33am: great job on your first /checkin post! btmb.me/s/5p - I tried URL trimming to https://ben.thatmustbe.me/checkin/ and got 404 - do you have a checkin stream?
#
Loqi ben_thatmust: tantek left you a message 1 week, 2 days ago: looks like your post https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2015/1/11/1/ is claiming to 202 a webmention attempt, but it never shows up: http://tantek.com/2015/013/f40
#
Loqi ben_thatmust: tantek left you a message 1 week, 2 days ago: looks like your post https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2015/1/11/1/ is claiming to 202 a webmention attempt, but it never shows up: http://tantek.com/2015/013/f40
#
Loqi ben_thatmust: snarfed left you a message 11 hours, 27 minutes ago: hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
#
Loqi ben_thatmust: snarfed left you a message 11 hours, 27 minutes ago: hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
#
aaronpk anyone else use an underscore in their nick?
#
ben_thatmustbeme next time KevinMarks_ or benward____ speaks they may have some long playback too
#
aaronpk no those should work fine
#
aaronpk the point of the underscore trick Loqi was doing was to protect against people with trailing underscores
#
ben_thatmustbeme odd i got doubles of a number of those
#
ben_thatmustbeme ahhh, i see
#
bret dont fear the playback
#
aaronpk and also for people who do things like aaronpk|m or aaronpk|away
#
bret ;)
#
aaronpk or bret~afk and stuff
#
bret does my name change to afk?
#
ben_thatmustbeme loic_m is the only other person i see with an underscore in the middle atm
LauraJ and pfefferle joined the channel
#
GWG Pfefferle, I am going to back burner the semantics conversation and finish up with the Indieweb plugin and the starter theme work
danlyke_ joined the channel
#
pfefferle GWG what means ”žback burner“?
#
GWG Pfefferle, focus on the other projects and not on the semantics idea right now
#
pfefferle GWG ok… and I will do vice versa :)
#
pfefferle GWG will have a closer look at the code… love the general idea and the idea of copying some parts to the linkback plugin
#
GWG Pfefferle, I also still have a pull request
#
GWG Pfefferle, the Indieweb plugin just needs one more text revision based on the collaboration I got in here
#
GWG Also need to read how to use Grunt
#
GWG The starter theme work is nearly done for now.
#
GWG Probably will finish this weekend
#
GWG Pfefferle, did I show you the latest feature I was adding to the starter theme?
#
GWG Pfefferle, as for the semantics stuff, will continue to brainstorm
#
pfefferle GWG I am not sure… which feature exactly
#
pfefferle ???
#
GWG Pfefferle, go to tiny.n9n.us and click on a photo
LauraJ joined the channel
#
pfefferle GWG oh nice, a lightbox
#
GWG pfefferle: It is all CSS
#
pfefferle really?
#
pfefferle awesome!
#
GWG Yes, found someone who had a great library for it
#
aaronpk whoa, it works with noscript
#
GWG https://github.com/drublic/css-modal
#
ben_thatmustbeme cool
#
aaronpk bookmarked
#
GWG I'm just worried about mf2 markup
#
GWG Since the html for the modal is in the page, I'm afraid it could lead to duplication
#
ben_thatmustbeme bookmarked as well
#
ben_thatmustbeme https://ben.thatmustbe.me/bookmark/2015/1/23/1/bookmark
#
aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: why do you have "bookmark" twice in the url?
#
ben_thatmustbeme yeah i just noticed that
#
ben_thatmustbeme i had been defaulting slug to things for a while there, i think that can be dumped now that i support blank slug properly
#
GWG Aaronpk, ben_thatmustbeme: Looking forward to seeing what you do with it.
#
ben_thatmustbeme fixed that
#
aaronpk yay
#
Loqi yay!
tantek joined the channel
#
tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
#
Loqi tantek: snarfed left you a message 12 hours, 18 minutes ago: hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
#
Loqi tantek: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 2 hours, 5 minutes ago: facepile looks good, sorry I missed a few people from that list, took me some time to clean it all up and sort alphabetically and all
#
ben_thatmustbeme good morning
#
tantek ben_thatmustbeme++ great work on adding so many people to the facepile
#
Loqi ben_thatmustbeme has 41 karma
#
tantek kylewm++ you too!
#
Loqi dude
#
tantek oops
#
tantek snarfed asking the tough and thoughtful questions :)
#
tantek slowly but surely the pieces of a 2014 IndieWeb in review post are coming together
#
tantek kylewm++ thanks again for adding bunches of faces
#
Loqi kylewm has 104 karma
#
tantek I'm going to take a break from design iterations on my "like" posts. I haven't quite coded up everything I brainstormed, but I'm pretty happy with how it is now.
#
tantek The next two design improvements for sequential likes (numbering consecutive items of the same type, further clustering of sets of consecutive items of the same type from the same source with a leading count, and parenthesizing such sets) are will take a bit more code, so I'm going to reflect on them a bit to see if I can think of anything better. http://indiewebcamp.com/like#Brainstorming
prtksxna joined the channel
#
aaronpk tantek: really happy about all your research on clustering likes
#
tantek thanks!
#
aaronpk I don't expect to render my own content that way, but will likely use it in a reader and also considering creating an "activity" page that shows my content all in that form
#
tantek I've only done *some* research because there are very few silos that seem to do it
#
tantek most of what I did in Brainstorming is design I came up with by iterating with my own likes
#
tantek and there are interesting design challenges/opportunities in particular for indieweb likes where you can like things *anywhere* on the web
#
tantek especially from the same person across different sites
#
tantek !tell snarfed speaking of PESOS for Bridgy Publish, any thought to a "Bridgy Reader" feature for providing an h-feed of silo profiles of people you (want to) follow? E.g. non-authenticated conversion for public profiles, and if the profile is private, then attempt to do so with silo credentials given to Bridgy?
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
tantek aaronpk - in particular a lot of my design thinking for "like" posts were very much author-(liker-)centric
#
aaronpk i've made a design decision of not including third-party language on content I create on my site (so you won't see text like "aaron liked this" or "aaron posted an article")
#
aaronpk but i've been thinking about adding a page as an experiment which turns *all* my content into that
#
aaronpk like one giant feed of everything on my site, but clustered and written in third person
#
tantek that is, I wanted to present like posts in a way which made me less hesitant to like stuff (like unafraid of or minimizing the feeling of "spamming" my home page with likes)
#
tantek aaronpk I too don't like referring to myself in 3rd person in posts
#
tantek however the implied 3rd person "likes …" or "liked …" seems fine to me
LauraJ joined the channel
#
aaronpk i'm imagining that kind of phrasing and clustering would work great in a reader
#
tantek it would - but the reader would have to do all the work
#
aaronpk yeah
#
tantek since we don't have any way of doing such clustering in any of the feed formats
#
aaronpk that's the point
#
aaronpk because it might also cluster across different websites
#
aaronpk such as "tantek and aaronpk liked a post by snarfed"
#
tantek as it is I was pretty impressed I was able to figure out HTML markup to both do the clustering on my home page presentationally, AND provide individual self-standing h-entry items!
#
aaronpk indeed, i'm impressed that works
#
tantek I'm pretty proud of http://indiewebcamp.com/like#markup_for_hypertext_design in particular
#
tantek ah, the many authors liked the same post thing
#
tantek where have you seen that in silos? I've only see it in IG
#
aaronpk twitter does it in the notifications tab too
#
aaronpk "barry and 3 others favorited your tweet"
#
aaronpk or checkins, "aaronpk and tantek checked in to whole foods market"
#
tantek hmm - if you could capture some screenshots of that and add it to /favorite that would be great!
#
tantek wait where do you see the checkin clustering?
#
tantek not in Swarm any more
booly-yam-4912_ joined the channel
#
tantek er not in 4sq
#
aaronpk not anymore sadly
#
aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:twitter-favorite-clustering.png]]""
#
aaronparecki.com edited /favorite (+177) "/* Twitter */ favorite clustering" (view diff)
#
tantek aaronpk, maybe datestamp that upload, since Twitter UI changes so much? And every iteration is worth keeping for research reasons.
#
aaronparecki.com edited /favorite (+30) "add date" (view diff)
#
aaronpk is the date on the file history enough? https://indiewebcamp.com/File:twitter-favorite-clustering.png
#
tantek and move the upload file to a new name
#
aaronpk ah
#
aaronparecki.com moved /File:twitter-favorite-clustering.png to /File:20150123-twitter-favorite-clustering.png
#
tantek it's not because you have to dig for it, and the generic name implies "current"ness (or that it should be current)
#
tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2015-023-instagram-like-clustering.jpg]]""
danlyke_ joined the channel
#
aaronparecki.com edited /favorite (+9) (view diff)
gRegor` and wolftune joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /like (+593) "/* Instagram */ Instagram followings activity" (view diff)
#
aaronpk whoa, there's a /like and a /favorite page?
#
tantek aaronpk - yes of course!
#
aaronpk i still don't really understand the difference
#
tantek people treat them differently (somewhat), and silos design for them differently (slightly)
#
tantek there isn't one "the" difference
#
aaronpk are there any silos that support both?
#
tantek there are many shades of differences
#
tantek 500px has "heart" as well as "like"
#
tantek aaronpk - the biggest *common* difference that I know if is that /favorite puts things in a collection that is almost always public, and browsable
#
tantek whereas /like is more stream-like
#
aaronpk interesting
#
tantek and I don't know of any site that provides a user/likes tab where you can look at all of someone's "likes"
#
tantek s/site/silo
#
Loqi tantek meant to say: and I don't know of any silo that provides a user/likes tab where you can look at all of someone's "likes"
#
KevinMarks_ google reader had both I think
#
Loqi KevinMarks_: colintedford left you a message 1 week ago: For the fragmentions icon, maybe some combo of a quotation mark + a link icon? Rough idea @ http://test.colintedford.com/s/2014/fragicon.html but I'm sure someone could do better.
#
KevinMarks_ as it had about 4 ways of interacting
#
Loqi KevinMarks_: tantek left you a message on 11/5 at 2:03pm: what was that article you cited that said something like "if you have to moderate the trolling, the trolling has already succeeded." ?
#
tantek lol
caseorganic joined the channel
#
KevinMarks_ loqi lag
#
Loqi is done
#
aaronpk apparently the underscore issue did in fact affect people with trailing underscores
#
tantek KevinMarks - if you can dig up old screenshots of Google Reader to substantiate that, we can add them as legacy examples
#
tantek_ hey Loqi
#
tantek__ hey Loqi!
#
tantek___ hey Loqi!!!
#
bupkes hooray now i have a place where all my microbloggy bits go http://bupk.es/blog/type/status/
#
tantek neat!
#
tantek bupkes++
#
Loqi bupkes has 1 karma
#
bupkes ha thanks :) (not sure what that means but it sounds good :))
#
tantek :)
#
tantek bupkes - consider adding rel=syndication links from your posts e.g. http://bupk.es/blog/2015/01/23/30/ to their Twitter POSSE copy e.g. https://twitter.com/bupk_es/status/558514579957760000 with some text like "Also on Twitter"
#
@bupk_es having a go with brid.gy. hope you get this, @schnarfed! (http://bupk.es/blog/2015/01/23/30/) (twitter.com/_/status/558514579957760000)
#
tantek e.g. Also <a class="u-syndication" href="https://twitter.com/bupk_es/status/558514579957760000">on Twitter</a>
#
@bupk_es having a go with brid.gy. hope you get this, @schnarfed! (http://bupk.es/blog/2015/01/23/30/) (twitter.com/_/status/558514579957760000)
#
tantek somewhere inside your h-entry on http://bupk.es/blog/2015/01/23/30/
#
bupkes ok writing that down...
#
bupkes so i guess I'd need to back in afterwards and add that manually?
#
bupkes btw thanks for the advice, tantek
#
tantek np!
#
tantek bupkes you may be able to modify whatever it is that is calling Bridgy for you to take the result from Bridgy and add it to your post automatically
#
tantek s/Bridgy/Bridgy Publish
#
Loqi tantek meant to say: bupkes you may be able to modify whatever it is that is calling Bridgy Publish for you to take the result from Bridgy Publish and add it to your post automatically
michielbdejong joined the channel
#
tantek more here btw: http://indiewebcamp.com/rel-syndication
#
tantek hmm we really should either expand /syndication or create a /u-syndication page that explains Why and How to add u-syndication markup
#
tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/syndication
#
bupkes ok i'm going to try that...
#
tantek and incorporate this too http://indiewebcamp.com/syndication-link-use-cases
#
tantek and this! http://indiewebcamp.com/posts-elsewhere
#
tantek wow that info is spread around a bunch of pages
#
tantek bupkes - apologies for the transitional/disparate state of the docs on u-syndication
#
tantek basically, all three of these pages are worth reading: Why: http://indiewebcamp.com/syndication-link-use-cases , Who and How: http://indiewebcamp.com/posts-elsewhere , and overview http://indiewebcamp.com/syndication
#
tantek wow I don't even: http://mashable.com/2015/01/22/twitter-instagram-photos/ (catching up from logs I think)
#
aaronpk lol I like how the example screenshot shows 1 RT and 1 fav on the post with the instagram link and 3.3M RTs on the native photo post
#
tantek aaronpk HAH! good catch. that is hilarious. totally photo shopped :P
#
tantek "Instagram continued to increase in popularity, thanks in part to its acquisition by Facebook, and likely recently overtook Twitter in monthly active users. " <--- WAT!
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
tantek doesn't the Instagram >--- ownyourgram --> personal site >---- POSSE tweet+photo ---> Twitter approach solve this problem?
#
aaronpk yes!
#
tantek instead of directly cross-posting from IG?
#
tantek aaronpk - you should totally write a blog post response to this
#
aaronpk i still haven't automated that but I really want to
#
tantek oh I thought you had!
#
aaronpk the few photos I post to twitter i've had to do manually
#
tantek well here's a good excuse to do so! and then write about how to do so "instead of posting directly on twitter" ;)
#
aaronpk hmm does bridgy publish support photo posts?
#
tantek to Twitter? good question. kylewm snarfed?
#
aaronpk https://www.brid.gy/about#picture
#
aaronpk apparently yes
#
tantek nice!
#
aaronpk hmm I may have a short path to this then
#
aaronpk oh right i've been avoiding bridgy publish because of the security issue
prtksxna joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu silo strong arming: http://zoekeating.tumblr.com/post/108898194009/what-should-i-do-about-youtube
#
tantek aaronpk what security issue?
#
bupkes tantek: nope, i can't seem to do it automatically (i'm not really much of a coder). quite happy to do it manually as I'm not all that prolific a poster anyway
#
aaronpk i can send a webmention for any post that bridgy publish has already posted and cause bridgyt o tweet it out again
#
tantek KartikPrabhu: please add that to /YouTube#Criticism
#
aaronpk like on other peoples' accounts
snarfed joined the channel
#
tantek "I decided in 2005 to self-publish rather than chase after a record deal. I am independent because I didn’t want a bunch of men in suits deciding how I should release my music"
snarfed joined the channel
#
tantek THIS: "The people who work at Google, Facebook, etc can’t imagine how everything they make is not, like, totally awesome. If it’s not awesome for you it’s because you just don’t understand it yet and you’ll come around."
#
snarfed aaronpk: not exactly. bridgy won't re publish posts it's already published once
#
Loqi snarfed: gRegor` left you a message 12 hours, 41 minutes ago: I'm about 1,000 miles from having micropub support. Just not an itch for me currently or in the near future. So I guess I don't have strong opinions on Bridgy PESOS
#
Loqi snarfed: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 2 hours, 39 minutes ago: oh yeah, loqi doesn't seem to do well with the multiple messages btw. It reports it to one of those people listed instead of all
#
Loqi snarfed: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 11 minutes ago: speaking of PESOS for Bridgy Publish, any thought to a "Bridgy Reader" feature for providing an h-feed of silo profiles of people you (want to) follow? E.g. non-authenticated conversion for public profiles, and if the profile is private, then attempt to do so with silo credentials given to Bridgy?
#
aaronpk oh I thought we had demonstrated that before
#
snarfed the problem is that you can make it posse a post that someone *didn't* posse to a given silo
#
aaronpk oh wait, it *doesn't* require that you add a link to the bridgy publish URL on the post you're trying to POSSE?
#
snarfed (ie they posted it on their site, just chose not to posse)
#
snarfed no, doesn't require that
#
aaronpk okay so saying that bridgy publish works by sending a webmention is misleading
#
aaronpk because webmention requires the link to exist
#
tantek I've never had to or added such a link to my posts that I've POSSE'd with Bridgy Publish AFAIK
#
snarfed it's an odd threat model, since they did already publish it publicly, as themselves, so it's not so bad... but still
danlyke and sparverius joined the channel
#
kartikprabhu.com edited /YouTube (+91) "/* Issues */" (view diff)
#
snarfed aarobpk: yes it's an odd wm usage: trigger, not true mention. i discuss it a bit in the docs
#
tantek snarfed - only thing that is odd is that you can cause Bridgy Publish to POSSE to an account that you're not logged into Bridgy Publish with.
#
tantek that is, Bridgy Publish should be acting like a "Twitter app". If you're signed in to Bridgy Publish with Twitter username foo, then you can use Bridgy Publish to post to Twitter username foo
#
snarfed tantek: you have to have enabled publish for that account, but true, you don't have to be logged into it in the browser
#
tantek right, my suggestion is that you should have to be logged into it in the browser
#
snarfed that proposal works for interactive but not automated (webmention)
#
snarfed just a sec, bbiab
#
tantek snarfed: for automated, you have that solved with the requirement of the post to link to Bridgy Publish (which indicates intent of the publisher to use Bridgy Publish to POSSE)
snarfed joined the channel
#
tantek thus this "security issue" should be / is solvable
#
aaronpk i guess what i'm saying is that if I can `curl https://www.brid.gy/publish/webmention -d source=http://tantek.com/2015/016/f12 -d target=http://brid.gy/publish/twitter` but tantek's site doesn't actually have a link to brid.gy/publish/twitter then it's not a webmention
#
tantek and thus it shouldn't publish to twitter
loic_m_ joined the channel
#
aaronpk and it should be called the bridgy publish API instead
#
tantek via that curl
#
tantek no I think the link requirement is correct
#
tantek for the curl API
#
aaronpk if the link is required, then it can be called a webmention
#
tantek right
#
snarfed aaronpk: yes, i understand what you're saying. i'm not too concerned whether it's technically called a webmention or not; i just support the http request and standard query params as the trigger
#
snarfed fails at juggling baby and phone and two irc threads
#
aaronpk :)
#
bupkes yes that's tricky :)
#
aaronpk I think the link requirement would solve this completely
#
aaronpk since bridgy already won't tweet something it's tweeted before
#
KartikPrabhu snarfed: is juggling babies legal?
#
snarfed ok, one down. catching up.
#
KartikPrabhu :P
#
snarfed KartikPrabhu: is it illegal?
#
snarfed :P
#
KartikPrabhu point taken
caseorganic joined the channel
#
tantek KartikPrabhu: wait when did snarfed have babies (plural) ?!?
#
snarfed tantek: aaronpk: re the security issue, i like the bridgy publish link req't. hadn't considered it before, but makes sense. thanks!
#
snarfed only one baby
#
KartikPrabhu yeah but he was juggling it
#
tantek juggling it doesn't make it a plural
gRegor_ joined the channel
#
gRegor_ gRegor2
#
snarfed oh also before i forget, bupkes: tantek: you're looking for https://github.com/jihaisse/wordpress-syndication . understands bridgy publish and automatically adds synd links
#
gRegor_ (Electric Boogaloo)
#
tantek now to figure out which of the /syndication related pages that should go on
#
snarfed also tantek: re "bridgy reader," http://twitter-activitystreams.appspot.com/ and friends (including fb and ig) already convert silo streams to h-entries etc
#
tantek is "syndication link" a generic and understandable enough term for the hyperlinks people use like "Also on Twitter" or "View on Twitter" or "Reply on Twitter" ?
#
snarfed happily usable in h-feed readers. shrewdness actually already uses the twitter one, maybe more
#
aaronpk syndication link sounds good
#
tantek is thinking of starting /syndication_link as an article to start consolidating those other pages noted above
#
tantek while leaving /syndication as a disambig page
gRegor2 joined the channel
#
tantek what is a syndication link?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "syndication link" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=syndication+link
#
gRegor2 Sheesh. gRegor_ and gRegor2 are both Nickserv registered.
#
tantek I have to run, but I can start that page later this afternoon - or if anyone else wants to jump on it, please be my guest!
#
aaronpk so what I was getting at with using bridgy publish, is I could make my micropub endpoint accept "bridgy publish" as a syndication target, adding the invisible publish link, at which point my webmention sender would cause bridgy to post that to twitter for me
#
snarfed aaronpk: exactly! that's a big reason why i used webmention as the trigger
scor joined the channel
#
snarfed so many people could start doing it with no new code
#
snarfed that should work now
#
tantek for /syndication_link, use/source/incorporate material from http://indiewebcamp.com/syndication-link-use-cases , Who and How: http://indiewebcamp.com/posts-elsewhere , and http://indiewebcamp.com/rel-syndication (but leave those pages as "main" for their own subtopics)
#
aaronpk yeah I like that about it
#
snarfed also aaronpk: thanks for the feedback on the pesos article. i think the only big remaining hurdle is that i don't have the bandwidth to do it myself right now :P
#
aaronpk the link to the publish URL should be required, and then as a potential alternate method you could allow people to publish posts that don't have that link if they're authenticated somehow
#
aaronpk if that use case is still important
#
snarfed nah i don't care about the latter use case
#
aaronpk okay cool
#
snarfed this is great, closes that "hole"
#
aaronpk yep!
#
tantek wait - that use case is solved via the web UI for Bridgy Publish isn't it?
#
aaronpk there's a web UI for bridgy publish?
#
snarfed ahahahahahahahaha
#
tantek it's the only thing I've used!
#
tantek (of Bridgy Publish)
#
aaronpk oh!
#
snarfed aaronpk doesn't have publish enabled so he's never seen it
#
aaronpk so it should be fine to still allow publishing that way, just only for the person who's logged in
#
tantek which is what I said ;)
#
aaronpk i didn't even know that was a thing
michielbdejong joined the channel
#
aaronpk i also can't find how to enable bridgy publish from the home page
#
snarfed aaronpk: it's on your user page
#
snarfed bridgy's web ui ranges from mediocre to awful
#
snarfed chalk that part up as awful
#
aaronpk ohh crazy
#
aaronpk how does it decide whether to include the link if sent via a webemtion?
#
snarfed extra nonstandard query param
#
snarfed refrains from saying rtfm :P
#
aaronpk reads FAQ
#
aaronpk https://www.brid.gy/about#omit-link
#
snarfed beat me to it
#
ben_thatmustbeme snarfed are you getting my webmentions?
#
snarfed ben_thatmustbeme: maybe! my site caches overaggressively, so if you're not seeing them, that's why
#
snarfed ben_thatmustbeme: where?
#
aaronpk so I could add this to my post? <a href="http://www.brid.gy/publish/twitter" class="u-bridgy-omit-link"></a>
#
ben_thatmustbeme https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2015/1/23/2/
#
snarfed aaronpk: yup
#
snarfed all of mine do that
#
snarfed e.g. https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_kyle-mahan-the-facebook-api-v2-0-is-hobbled-to-prevent
prtksxna joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme snarfed, i believe it should have sent, i don't think its caching though
#
snarfed ben_thatmustbeme: it was. flushed. thanks!
#
snarfed re splitting it up, i like the sentiment, but it's not really a problem that needs to be solved right now
#
snarfed the code base and architecture aren't unmanageably big (yet)
#
snarfed and re indie readers and one-click actions, i'm all for those! but they're *still* not here, and they'll require micropub and indie-config, which very few sites have implemented
#
snarfed if/when those are available and good, though, including on mobile, i'd happily ditch bridgy publish pesos
#
aaronpk omit link didn't work, but the photo did!
#
aaronpk oh wait nvm my bad
#
snarfed yay props to emmak for adding photo support to bridgy publish
#
Loqi does a happy dance!
#
KevinMarks_ did shrewdness die?
#
snarfed filed https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/351 and https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/352
#
snarfed aaronpk: huh. which account did you try bridgy publish on?
#
snarfed ah, indiewebcat
#
aaronpk if I delete teh tweet and try to republish will it let me? or will it not publish because it knows it has already?
#
aaronpk ah I hav eto add special handling anyway in order to be able to add the twitter syndication link that bridgy returns in the webmention response
#
snarfed aaronpk: it won't let you
#
snarfed aaronpk: and yeah, https://www.brid.gy/about#response
#
aaronpk with twitter the response is exactly the tweet object? or has a "url" like the fb example and also includes the twee object?
#
snarfed both
#
snarfed double checking
#
snarfed er, so, the latter
#
snarfed you can see it in the log link on the bridgy user page
#
colintedford.com edited /Tumblr (+218) "/* POSSE to Tumblr */ Citation for RSS import feature removal" (view diff)
#
snarfed e.g. "7 minutes ago" on https://www.brid.gy/twitter/indiewebcat#publishes
#
aaronpk i don't understand the syntax
#
aaronpk some of the things have a "u" befor ethem
#
snarfed yeah, python dict
#
snarfed ignore the u
#
aaronpk but why doesn't url have the u before it?
#
snarfed wasn't a unicode instance
#
snarfed srsly, ignore :P
#
aaronpk okay so the response is the twitter object directly, which happens to have a "url" property?
#
snarfed yeah. either the tweet object includes it, or i added it
#
aaronpk ah
#
snarfed probably the latter
#
aaronpk so it's safe to assume there will always be a "url" property regardless of where it's publishing to?
#
snarfed yeah, i think i say in the docs that i guarantee that
#
snarfed also "id"
#
snarfed for objects that have them
#
snarfed searches for someone he can pay to implement bridgy publish
#
snarfed (er, pesos)
#
aaronpk sadly I don't know any python
#
snarfed hah, not to mention i doubt you have a ton of free time
#
snarfed thanks though!
#
@veganstraightedge Silo subdomains are part of the problem. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/558709106010095616)
#
snarfed aaronpk: you're just experimenting, right? since you already have fb and tw posse?
#
aaronpk i don't have photo posse at all
#
snarfed ahhh
#
aaronpk and haven't connected the POSSE I do have to my micropub endpoint yet
#
emmak what is indie config?
#
Loqi indie-config is a method of using protocol handlers and postmessage to setup your indie website to both notify the browser that it can handle webactions and then do so https://indiewebcamp.com/indie-config
LauraJ joined the channel
#
snarfed photo posse isn't too hard. bridgy's code is https://github.com/snarfed/activitystreams-unofficial/blob/master/facebook.py#L462 and https://github.com/snarfed/activitystreams-unofficial/blob/master/twitter.py#L532
#
snarfed still, feel free to use bridgy publish, obviously
#
snarfed emmak++ for that
#
Loqi emmak has 11 karma
#
aaronpk omit link isn't working for me
#
aaronpk oh i'm an idiot again
#
snarfed lol
#
tantek aaronpk, re: http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/01/22/1/why-not-json - I'd even say protocol buffers, and the follow-up to them (what were they called) are also an attempt at JSON replacement. And this lolworthy stackoverflow thread: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14028293/google-protocol-buffers-vs-json-vs-xml
#
aaronpk OH forgot about protocol buffers thanks
#
ben_thatmustbeme ack, need to catch up on a lot
#
tantek and https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/protobuf/KYyVszKaogU "good to see some real interest in alternatives to XML finally.
#
tantek I've been working on a similar project to Protocol Buffers for years
#
tantek now called Argot" (lol. "back in my garage I've been tinkering…")
#
snarfed tantek: aaronpk: cap'n proto
#
tantek is that not a person?
#
snarfed lol no
#
tantek then that's a crappy name
#
snarfed but same author who did protobufs at google and now sandstorm
#
snarfed heh maybe so
#
tantek aaronpk another citation http://blog.codeclimate.com/blog/2014/06/05/choose-protocol-buffers/ "5 Reasons to Use Protocol Buffers Instead of JSON For Your Next Service"
#
tantek snarfed - huh - no mention of cap'n proto on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_Buffers - perhaps you could fix?
#
aaronpk also I forgot I had written that post yesterday cause I wrote it after coming back from the dentist on xanax
#
tantek aaronpk, for a good time, pick one of these at random: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_data_serialization_formats :D
#
snarfed tantek: cap'n proto is non-google, so just spiritual successor, not official
#
tantek by spiritual did you mean "technical" ?!
#
snarfed hmm. i wonder how hard it would be to get ifttt to add a micropub channel. that would maybe get us pesos-to-micropub partly for free
#
tantek https://capnproto.org/
#
snarfed yup that
#
aaronpk snarfed: that'd be awesome. unfortunately it would be quite hard
#
snarfed kenton's very competent
#
snarfed sigh yeah
#
aaronpk they are not very excited abotu adding new channels ad hoc
#
snarfed i take it you know from experience :/
#
aaronpk yes
#
tantek snarfed - indeed - I filed a pull-request for him to add webmention support to his blogging engine Hacker CMS and he followed up with a challenging reply: https://github.com/kentonv/ssjekyll/issues/3
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, btw if you want, i modified mention-client slightly to record any syndication urls returned
#
tantek not sure how to incorporate his needs into webmention
#
ben_thatmustbeme https://github.com/dissolve/mention-client-php
#
aaronpk we had talked briefly about adding a geoloqi channel way back in the day. but the beeminder folks have been trying hard for a long time to get added as a channel.
#
tantek huh, why is IFTTT a gatekeeper?
#
aaronpk because they have to write code to support additional silos
#
tantek aaronpk, perhaps add something about "difficult to get added as a channel" to /IFTTT#Issues ?
#
snarfed there are open source alternatives that come with silo plugins. ifttt just has good ux, especially for non-technical people
#
tantek since it sounds like you have real world examples
#
aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: interesting!
eschnou joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme after sending i just do $urls = $client->getReturnedUrls();
#
ben_thatmustbeme although i think that one actually has some other changes now to support vouch and such
#
aaronpk is thinking about making ownyourgram send syndicate-to parameters
#
ben_thatmustbeme that would be great
#
ben_thatmustbeme i was going to ask you about that actually
#
aaronpk can't think of a way to do that per photo
#
ben_thatmustbeme if i could log in to ownyourgram and tell it where to push for all photos it sends
#
snarfed aaronpk: hashtag?
#
snarfed annoying for followers, but meh
#
ben_thatmustbeme right now i have it hard-coded to send all to twitter, but now that i have my android app, I can stop that
#
aaronpk yeah i've seen people do that for other silo tools
#
aaronpk kinda ugly though
#
snarfed yup
#
ben_thatmustbeme yeah
#
ben_thatmustbeme i don't think you can per post
#
aaronpk if I could update comments, I could do something like have the person put +tw and then remove that from the comment
#
snarfed if you want to syndicate, publish the photo on an even-numbered second. if not, publish on odd-numbered second.
#
snarfed :O
#
aaronpk snarfed++
#
ben_thatmustbeme hahaha
#
Loqi snarfed has 77 karma
#
aaronpk but anyway all-or-nothing syndication would be better than nothing
#
snarfed aaronpk: the one writable part of ig's api is like. maybe use that? you do just need a boolean signal after all
#
tantek aaronpk - why not re-use u-syndication as a param for ownyourgram?
#
aaronpk like your post to syndicate it to twitter? haha
#
snarfed but hey, it'd work
#
aaronpk tantek: what do you mean?
#
snarfed and unlike it afterward
#
snarfed (programmaticcally)
#
aaronpk haha
#
tantek like if there's a u-syndication param to profile like twitter.com/aaronpk then it does so
#
aaronpk i'm talking about the micropub post ownyourgram makes to create the photo on your site
#
tantek and then fills in the actual POSSE permalink
#
aaronpk i'm not making ownyourgram publish to twitter
#
tantek sorry I was confused
#
aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#Syndicating_a_Post
#
tantek oh nm looks like you already solved it
#
aaronpk okay filed that here https://github.com/aaronpk/OwnYourGram/issues/6
#
aaronpk this is all part of my plan to have @indiewebcat's photos post to twitter automatically
#
tantek neat
#
tantek something about cats automatically syndicating photos seems quite internet-appropriate
#
tantek and from there, we can only wait for indiewebcat to post the first cat-selfie, to 1-up the monkey-selfie
#
tantek perhaps there needs to be a catstagram iPad (web?) app where the "take photo" button is just a giant square with a mouse running around in it near the camera of the iPad, so by tapping the mouse, the cat takes a selfie.
#
tantek for extra credit, take video of indiewebcat taking the selfie, and post it as proof
#
aaronpk omg http://www.buzzfeed.com/expresident/tips-for-taking-the-perfect-cat-selfie
#
ben_thatmustbeme hah, surprised there wasn't anything about being a beard
Sebastien-L and prtksxna joined the channel
#
aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: have you dealt with the problem of php including numeric array indexes when using http_build_query?
#
aaronpk I want the response to be syndicate-to[]=twitter&syndicate-to[]=facebook but i'm getting syndicate-to[0]=twitter etc
#
Loqi gives aaronpk the response to be syndicate
#
aaronpk considering an ugly hack
fourtonfish and tantek joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, you mean like this? https://ben.thatmustbe.me/micropub?q=syndicate-to
#
aaronpk yes
#
aaronpk the http_build_query function makes it include numeric indices
#
ben_thatmustbeme i cheated and build up an array of "syndicate-to[]=..." then just implode with &
#
aaronpk ah
tantek and booly-yam-6140 joined the channel
#
KevinMarks_ gillmor gang time
#
tantek busy this week KevinMarks_ !
#
tantek ok I got one for you
#
tantek https://twitter.com/t/status/558735774430932993
#
@t Hey @Google @YouTube, strongarming indie artists like @zoecello is a form of bullying and evil: http://zoekeating.tumblr.com/post/108898194009/what-should-i-do-about-youtube (ttk.me t4_J1) (twitter.com/_/status/558735774430932993)
#
tantek.com created /subtext (+105) "minimal dfn, see also" (view diff)
#
KevinMarks_ just reading that. grrr
#
tantek KevinMarks_: WOW you didn't see that til just now? You're the big @zoecello fanboy here :)
#
KevinMarks_ I am but I was reading about her husbands cancer :(
#
tantek yeah :(
#
tantek she's a really good writer, and critic. well-spoken and not ranty at all.
snarfed joined the channel
#
sparverius They can’t imagine scenarios outside their reality and that is how they inadvertently unleash things like the algorithmic cruelty of Facebook’s yearly review (which showed me a picture I had posted after a doctor told me my husband had 6-8 weeks to live).
#
sparverius daaaaamn.
#
KevinMarks_ benedict evans is on, what should I ask him about?
#
tantek who is he?
#
tantek URL?
#
tantek URL for the show again?
#
KevinMarks_ http://ben-evans.com/
#
KevinMarks_ http://friendfeed.com/stevegillmor/7387fec2/gillmor-gang-live-friday-01-23-15-recording-at
#
KevinMarks_ is the chat
#
KevinMarks_ http://ustream.tv/GillmorGang the stream
#
snarfed hey known users…known doesn't come with the micropub plugin, right? you have to install it separately?
#
aaronpk correct
#
KevinMarks_ i think it is there but needs enabling on hosted known
#
snarfed thx
#
tantek perhaps I should reframe "notification first design" to "watch first design"
#
tantek googles
#
tantek correction
#
tantek yahoos.
#
tantek which is actually binging
#
aaronpk how about "search"
#
tantek https://twitter.com/altjoen/status/513838526811471873
#
@altjoen Mobile first is so last month. My next website will be watch-first. (twitter.com/_/status/513838526811471873)
wolftune joined the channel
#
tantek and before that, by 11 days: https://twitter.com/iamdevloper/status/509600351012790272
#
@iamdevloper Watch-first Design™ (twitter.com/_/status/509600351012790272)
#
tantek and the *day* before that https://twitter.com/ericweidmann/status/509423001100509184
#
@ericweidmann I'm going to go ahead and coin the term "watch first design" #watchfirstdesign #watchfirst (twitter.com/_/status/509423001100509184)
#
tantek and that was just from bing search
#
tantek now let's try Twitter search directly
#
tantek wait - was Sep 9 the date the Apple Watch was announced?
#
tantek lots more result on Twitter
#
tantek earliest reference appears to be https://twitter.com/ronniekroon/status/315099072551862273 2013-03-22
#
@ronniekroon Apple, google, samsung rumoured to be working on smart watches... so this time next year (pun intended!) will it be "watch first" design?? (twitter.com/_/status/315099072551862273)
verdi_ and prtksxna joined the channel
#
tantek.com created /Pebble (+1011) "stub with dfn, indieweb example aaronpk" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /TOTP (+27) "/* See Also */ pebble" (view diff)
#
tantek.com created /Bluetooth_LE (+65) "stub with wp link" (view diff)
#
consultingcentral.ch edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (+350) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
#
consultingcentral.ch edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (-3) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
#
david.shanske.com edited /Pebble (+83) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
#
consultingcentral.ch edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (-2) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
#
GWG tantek: Can I ask your advice quickly?
#
tantek Good question :)
#
GWG rolls eyes
#
GWG I've been working on a page that has hidden information...which only appears upon click. But a parser would see all of it.
#
GWG I'm concerned about duplicating fields and how to properly mark it up
#
tantek URL?
#
tantek also re: can I ask … : FAQ: tantek.com/w/CommunicationProtocols#Dontaskifyoucanask
#
GWG https://tiny.n9n.us/
#
tantek does this need JS?
#
GWG No. CSS. If you click the images, it pops up a box
#
tantek ok that's really slick
#
GWG The JS is only so Escape and a few other things will work
mlncn-agaric joined the channel
#
GWG I linked to the library I'm using earlier
#
tantek what's hidden?
#
GWG The content of the modal.
#
GWG It's in the page.
#
tantek is it because it's duplicated?
#
GWG Which means I actually have two images, and possibly two names, etc.
#
tantek I'm not seeing any *new* (thus hidden) information
#
GWG tantek: It is duplicated. Also, two different image files.
#
GWG Due resolutions.
#
GWG But, if I added in the markup for name, location, what have you in future, I'd have duplicated more elements
#
tantek did you look into using srcset btw?
#
GWG tantek: Yes, actually.
#
tantek it sounds like these are photo posts
#
tantek and you have two resolutions you are presenting
#
GWG tantek: They are indeed
#
GWG Yes
#
tantek is one of them a "thumbnail"?
#
GWG But I don't know how to mark them up
#
tantek and the other the "actual" photo?
#
tantek right, hence I'm asking what they mean first
#
GWG tantek: Right now, both are reduced image sizes.
#
tantek by understanding what they mean, we can then determine how such meaning should be marked up
#
GWG WordPress autogenerates 3 sizes for every uploaded photo. I used two of the sizes in the test. But there are more.
#
KevinMarks_ that for the facepiles would be interesting
#
tantek GWG, this is a good real world test case
#
GWG KevinMarks_: I have ideas about that.
#
tantek semantically I think you should be using srcset to markup all three of the images
#
KevinMarks_ especially as (in the case I am using) they have huge src images
wolftune joined the channel
#
GWG tantek: The problem was..on the archive views, I wanted it to be smaller. I wanted the larger either to pop up, or to display on the single post view
#
GWG So, I have 2 different versions of how the page is supposed to display
#
tantek once you figure out how to mark it up with img srcset, then the next question is, is there a use-case for marking it up with microformats
friedcell joined the channel
#
tantek i.e. is there a use-case for a consuming site/app to get the diffierent resolutions of a photo?
#
KevinMarks_ thumbnail + full yes
#
GWG tantek: Well, the same as my use case....single post view and archive view.
#
KevinMarks_ though thumbnail may be a crop
#
tantek KevinMarks - let's solve the simpler use-case first
#
tantek when someone here wants to start publishing crops as thumbnails, we can look at it then
#
tantek AKA responsive images
#
snarfed tantek++
#
snarfed dontaskifyoucanask++
#
Loqi tantek has 142 karma
#
Loqi dontaskifyoucanask has 1 karma
#
KevinMarks_ right, I'm thinking of the silo ux precedent - twitter crops then allows full
#
KevinMarks_ fb too
#
KevinMarks_ pinterest doesn't crop
#
KevinMarks_ thats the closest succesful precedent to this model
#
KevinMarks_ actually it does at the board view level: http://www.pinterest.com/kevinmarks/
#
KevinMarks_ but not at the board itself http://www.pinterest.com/kevinmarks/cartoons-that-aren-t-just-prose-with-doodles/
#
tantek what is a thumbnail?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "thumbnail" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=thumbnail
#
tantek KevinMarks ^^^ please document silo thumbnail behavior
#
GWG Responsive images are going to be a problem for me.
#
bret.io created /pebble (+218) "Stubbed" (view diff)
#
bret oops
#
tantek lol
#
tantek merge -> /Pebble
#
bret fixing
#
bret ill just redirect
#
bret.io edited /pebble (-198) "Redirected page to [[Pebble]]" (view diff)
friedcell1 joined the channel
#
GWG tantek: I think I can go srcset limitedly for the single view, but I'd want a different size displayed on the archive view, which goes back to the initial problem
#
tantek I don't think it does
#
tantek in both cases you should use src-set
#
tantek then in the permalink view, presumably you style the image to have more space
#
tantek except perhaps on smaller screens, then you style the image to have less space
#
tantek then with srcset - let the browser pick the right resolution for whatever room you have for it
#
tantek automatically
#
tantek once you have this working presentationally, then we can see what we need to do in terms of microformats markup of it
#
GWG I'll mock it up. That's why I have a test site. To see how things look before I deploy them
#
tantek and more interestingly, what an indie reader of photo posts would need to "do the right thing" depending on what screen dimensions the reader was using
#
tantek GWG - yes of course - mocking up srcset on your test site makes the most sense
#
tantek great
#
tantek btw - srcset / responsive images are certainly not quick questions, however, they are quite interesting/challenging and something we should figure out!
#
tantek so thanks for asking!
#
tantek questions++
#
Loqi questions has 1 karma
#
tantek (point is, I appreciate your questions GWG whether or not you think they may be quick or not)
#
GWG tantek: I still wonder if that means I should dump the popup....which I sort of liked as an effect. But I can always just...not mark it up, I suppose.
#
tantek GWG by "popup" you mean "lightbox" right?
#
GWG tantek: Yes, modal, lightbox...what have you.
#
tantek the goal would be to still have the lightbox work, but on top of the srcset markup
#
GWG tantek: I usually don't realize how complex questions can be
#
tantek right! that's an important insight.
#
GWG I'm going to make something to eat, take out the garbage and play with srcset
#
tantek thus better to just ask
#
tantek great
#
GWG It isn't far off from what I had been playing with. I already had picturefill loaded.
#
tantek btw be sure to check your use of srcset with a browser that supports it (I think you have to turn it on with a flag in Firefox) http://caniuse.com/srcset
#
GWG It was on my radar anyway
#
GWG Already turned the flag on.
#
GWG And the picturefill js enables it if the browser doesn't.
#
tantek cool
wolftune joined the channel
#
Loqi [bridgy] microformats favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/payment (https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/554274849682886656)
#
GWG I wonder how you check srcset is working
#
tantek.com edited /Pebble (+39) "heading for GWG, since 2014-??-??" (view diff)
#
tantek GWG, how does Pushover work with Pebble?
#
tantek Could you explain in a sentence or two here? https://indiewebcamp.com/Pebble#Tools
#
GWG tantek, the Pushover app for Android has Pebble support built in
#
tantek Great - add that!
#
GWG aaronpk uses an iPhone? Because I don't know if it has the same
#
GWG Fo we have an Android wear page?
#
tantek the point is - document what works for you, don't worry about covering all the cases
#
GWG Do
#
tantek document what works for you with Pebble in particular
#
GWG I also have a refurbished Lg G watch
#
tantek what is a smart watch?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "smart watch" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=smart+watch
#
tantek GWG perhaps you could stub ^^^ ?
#
GWG Will give it a shot
#
GWG The thing is to identify what makes something useful beyond the gimmicks
#
tantek The thing is to come up with a short one sentence summary of it is, ignoring what it is not, or what it could be.
#
GWG Tantek, what is it?
#
tantek whatever you're stubbing
#
GWG I meant what is a smart watch