2015-01-22 UTC
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# 00:25 GWG pwcc: I don't normally leave it on. I'm more a Google hangouts/IRC type, but if you give me a bit, I could find my copy of Skype.
# 00:25 GWG I leave it on to communicate with tantek
# 00:25 GWG I'm kidding, but I think he lists it as his preferred contact method
# 00:27 tantek KevinMarks ^^^ can you stub with that googleusercontent URL?
# 00:29 pwcc GWG not skype works - gchat surname at peter wilson dot cc
# 00:29 tantek aaronpk - that page is getting quite big and is more about icon as a feature
# 00:30 tantek favicon I think deserves a legacy page for such things
# 00:35 tantek as G+ pages themselves don't actually support an icon for the user who made the post on G+
# 00:35 tantek G+ consumes favicons from other sites, but does not support them
# 00:35 tantek supporting an /icon means you have one on your site (and secondarily, your posts)
# 00:36 tantek just wrote the code and waited to see what would happen
# 00:37 tantek or at least the most recent 3 are showing up ;)
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# 01:29 tantek aaronpk - seems like all "what is xyz" type questions return the same error - whether a page is there or not. E.g. XFN, DOI
# 01:34 aaronpk tantek: I think that's the 4-char limit on searching in mysql
# 01:34 Loqi aaronpk meant to say: tantek: I think that's the 4-char minimum on searching in mysql
# 01:35 tantek aaronpk I agree. hence I'm wondering if that could be guarded against in Loqi before it tries to do the search
# 01:36 tantek or if <4 characters, have it fall back to just looking for the page by that name, rather than use search
# 01:36 aaronpk that might work because three-letter pages will tend to always be acronyms
# 01:36 aaronpk i had to use the search for other things because i can't assume all lower case or capitalized names
# 01:43 tantek.com edited /Hacker_News (+1555) "update dfn, more of a bookmark silo than link aggregator, add Features and Brainstorming sections with some exploration of POSSE" (
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# 01:48 tommorris I'm not wild about Hacker News. I wouldn't want most of what goes on there anywhere near my precious tommorris.org pixels. :)
# 01:51 tantek that HN link I pasted above reads like classic tommorris.org :)
# 01:51 tantek short, direct, to the point, with a dash of snark
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# 02:02 aaronpk Really? I wouldn't call hackernews a bookmark site at all
# 02:03 aaronpk The whole point is to submit relevant links that get voted on
# 02:03 Loqi tantek meant to say: with less functionality than delicious :P
# 02:03 tantek "whole point" ? no that's just a game of the current UI
# 02:03 aaronpk I seriously doubt anybody submits things there for personal relevance
# 02:04 tantek HN is a bookmarks silo with likes. Delicious is a bookmarks silo with tags. Discuss ;)
# 02:05 tantek aaronpk - your bookmark posts accept "like" webmentions right?
# 02:05 aaronpk The purpose of delicious was to organize your own bookmarks. It is useful to one person even if nobody else used it. Hackernews is useless unless there are other people
# 02:05 aaronpk Everything on my site accepts webmentions, but not all post types display them
# 02:06 Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: Google is a bookmark silo with search!
# 02:06 Loqi Reddit is a link aggregator and bulletin board site where community members may submit links and text posts, vote on the submitted entries, and post comments on them https://indiewebcamp.com/Reddit
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# 02:06 tantek aaronpk - disagree re: delicious - it had lots of functions / intents when it launched. including top links etc.
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# 02:07 tantek and because tags are flexible, delicious users came up with many other purposes
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# 02:07 tantek as a hack way of sending things to each other / lofi person-tagging
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# 02:08 tantek here's the key - once you see HN as a bookmarks silo, it makes A LOT of sense why they frown on bookmarking your own personal posts.
# 02:09 tantek I submit that HN = bookmarks silo is the GUT explanation of HN.
# 02:10 aaronpk meh not really interested in debating this terminology
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# 02:10 kylewm aside: benwerd RSVP'd to last night's meetup twice with conflicting answers (instead of changing the original)
# 02:10 tantek kylewm interesting - perhaps that's a semantic we need to capture for events posts receiving RSVPs
# 02:11 tantek kylewm - looking at adactio.com/links - ti does seem like a lot of those are "replies" rather than bookmarks
# 02:11 Loqi tantek meant to say: kylewm - looking at adactio.com/links - itdoes seem like a lot of those are "replies" rather than bookmarks
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# 02:18 tantek seems to me a mix of bookmarks, quotations, and replies
# 02:19 KartikPrabhu tantek: kylewm: I don't think any of adactio's links are supposed to be a"reply" to the original post author. They are more like adactio's commentary on the original post for adactio's readers
# 02:19 tantek sounds like a challenge to find an exception. drat. :P
# 02:22 KartikPrabhu tantek: it might but I am not sure adactio intended it to be so, and hence put it in links
# 02:23 Loqi This. (AKA THIS. or This: or THIS:) is type of quotation post similar in meaning to a combined like & repost where the text "This." is stated on a line by itself after the quotation, or the text "This:" is stated before a quotation or URL to express a strong affirmation or agreement with the referenced quotation or article https://indiewebcamp.com/this
# 02:23 KartikPrabhu that has always been my problem with response classification here. Maybe I do want to put text under "likes" but I don't mean it as a "reply" to the original author
# 02:27 tantek we're running head-on to the classification problem with the updated AS work in W3C Social Web WG
# 02:28 tantek thus I think it behooves us to have a good answer arrived at by very deliberate methodology (study of existing posting examples)
# 02:29 kylewm i guess there is just a difference between a link you're saving to remember later, and one you're sharing because you want others to read it and comment on it
# 02:29 KartikPrabhu yes. my method has been: if I want the post to be an actual "reply" intended for the original author it is a reply, else it is a "like"
# 02:30 kylewm but the presentation of those two could be the same
# 02:30 Loqi gives KartikPrabhu the post to be an actual "reply" intended for the original author it is a reply
# 02:30 tantek kylewm - right - the presentation of different post types/kinds is what differentiates them
# 02:30 tantek primarily the presentation, secondarily the intent
# 02:31 kylewm "bookmark" is not a great name for the union of those things...but i don't have a better suggestion
# 02:31 KartikPrabhu I do it the other way around. my intent will dictate the "presentation" and markup
# 02:31 tantek if you're saving a link just to remember later for yourself, why are you doing so publicly?
# 02:31 tantek there's the inescapable context of public sharing which affects the meaning
# 02:32 tantek from the author perspective intent -> presentation/markup
# 02:32 tantek from the reader perspective: presentation/markup -> interpret/infer intent
# 02:32 KartikPrabhu tantek: also I don't have any difference in public bookmarks vs likes
# 02:32 tantek KartikPrabhu: now that I've implemented like posts I'm not sure why I'd do bookmarks
# 02:33 tantek a "like" is a very public explicit display of positivity
# 02:33 tantek whereas a "bookmark" post could be interpreted more like a "save"
# 02:33 tantek this feels like a blog post I wrote already ...
# 02:33 KartikPrabhu true. I might want to bookmark a post I don't like for reference or to point my readers to it (haven't had the need for it yet)
# 02:34 tantek in FB, liking a "page" is a way of expressing interests in updates from it (kind of like a "soft" follow)
# 02:36 tantek bookmark can be neutral - or even without opinion at all
# 02:38 tantek I don't bookmark things because bookmarks lack context / purpose / actionability IMO
# 02:38 tantek in thinking about the links I save, I do collect one thing in particular (in a text file)
# 02:39 tantek for reasons of latter reference - the - what was that article that I read about xyz?
# 02:39 KartikPrabhu or "i saved this URL for later reading" I do that with science papers in feedly
# 02:39 KartikPrabhu if/when I have an actual reader I might add bookmark to mean "marked for later reading"
# 02:40 tantek I mean, I don't track *everything* I've read that way
# 02:40 tantek only things that feel like that have some significance that I may want to refind / reference / cite in the future
# 02:41 tantek or if its a concept (e.g. WP page), I track that for purpose of knowing when did I learn about that concept
# 02:44 tantek it's marginalia (rather than just a summary) because Adactio goes to the effort to hyperlink to another related resource in his comment.
# 02:44 tantek so there you go - better than a "reply" - it's a reply to a specific quote!
# 02:44 Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: but it could act as a comment
# 02:45 tantek this is worthy as a comment, he is sharing his personal perspective on the subject of the article, which is common comment fodder.
# 02:48 tantek rather than /bookmark posts, I may at some point implement "I read this" posts for what I described above that I currently capture as "read or skimmed" URLs in a text file
# 02:48 tantek at that point, I may POSSE such "I read this / skimmed this" posts as bookmarks to bookmark silos
# 02:49 tantek the abstract "bookmark" post makes less and less sense for me personally
# 02:50 KartikPrabhu possibly. maybe this discussion should be brought to adactio's attention.
# 02:51 tantek feels like an in-person discussion over drinks or equivalent
# 02:58 tantek I wonder what the impact is of people receiving indie likes on posts like that.
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# 04:53 KartikPrabhu <zuckerberg> and now to give free facebook *cough* internet to the developing world
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# 06:17 kylewm limiting the API in all sorts of arbitrary ways seems like a really lame way to prevent abuse/spam
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# 12:03 GWG Pfefferle, I have a question for you
# 12:04 GWG I'm continuing my quest to make things simpler
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# 12:08 GWG I was thinking about proposing part of Semantic Comments move to Linkbacks
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# 13:39 fkooman is there a reason why an indieauth authorization verify response is a post body instead of JSON like in OAuth?
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# 16:10 bret "We've got a grand spanking total of 24 profiles out of 7,875 whose 2015 post activity isn't YouTube comments but Google+ posts. That a 0.3% rate of all profile pages, going back to our 2.2 billion profiles. No wonder Dave Besbris (Google+ boss) doesn't want to talk about numbers,"
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# 16:13 kylewm bret: so the 9% number included youtube comments?
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# 16:39 tantek snarfed++ just used Bridgy Publish to POSSE a reply to a comment to a photo on FB. And kinda pleased about the (Originally published at: …) even in a reply.
# 16:40 aaronpk fkooman: the crazy thing is when I run the ruby code manually even from the same server, it doesn't have a problem fetching your site
# 16:43 aaronpk And everything is form encoded to avoid the "why is this an ugly JSON response instead of HNKT" 7 years down the road
# 16:54 tantek aaronpk++ that needs to be in the IndieAuth FAQ
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# 17:49 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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# 18:32 gRegor` Friend replying off-topic to my HWC tweet.
# 18:37 gRegor` Not right this moment, unfortunately. Perhaps this evening, though.
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# 19:01 kylewm hi tantek, I cannot come to HWC next week, but I'll make the event if ben doesn't
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# 19:35 GWG Snarfed, did you hear about Press this ?
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# 19:38 bupkes hello indiewebcamp people
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# 19:44 GWG An improved Otees This was selected as a feature plugin for 4.2
# 19:46 GWG Snarfed, anything you want to suggest as a user of the feature
# 19:47 bupkes I am new to this, pretty much. Just installed Sempress at bupk.es/blog
# 19:47 bupkes i'm experimenting with child themes and have already broken the CSS, but at least the indieweb stuff seems ok
# 19:48 bupkes ...only because that's something i'm used to.
# 19:52 Phyks I'm getting « An unknown error occurred with this provider » with github on phyks.me, do you have any idea why? thanks!
# 19:54 Phyks phyks.me as a login, and I'd like to use github auth
# 19:55 Phyks I recently moved phyks.me to point to my Known instance, but I think it was working before
# 19:57 bupkes that would be awesome.
# 19:57 Phyks aaronpk: what about changing the "unknown error message" to "the backlink provided by github does not match" or something like this?
# 19:58 bupkes GWG: I think I'm getting there. Having fun breaking things, anyway!
# 19:59 bupkes GWG: In the end I'm hoping to get bupk.es/blog to look a bit nicer and more like bupk.es
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# 20:04 bupkes GWG: got to go, i'm afraid. I'm @bupk_es on twitter if you are up for a chat another time. And I plan to return here.
# 20:14 aaronpk he'll be back. and if you !tell him a message he'll see it
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# 20:39 Phyks !tell tantek I started a page about Thingiverse on the wiki. Very basic at the moment, I will update it if I manage to get a working POSSE for it.
# 20:39 Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
# 20:42 gRegor` What is Thingiverse?
# 20:43 gRegor` What is things?
# 20:50 gRegor` What is Thingiverse?
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# 21:55 kylewm Scott Rosenberg is on there twice, not on purpose right?
# 21:55 kylewm realizing this was probably no fun to merge sort
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# 23:01 tantek wow great job on the 2014 IndieWebCampers facebook! ;)
# 23:01 Loqi tantek: Phyks left you a message 2 hours, 21 minutes ago: I started a page about Thingiverse on the wiki. Very basic at the moment, I will update it if I manage to get a working POSSE for it.
# 23:01 tantek from a quick look at the faces I think there may be a few folks included who RSVPd but didn't show up
# 23:02 tantek looks like may need to update the Guest_List pages of a few of the camps and move people to "We Missed You" section
# 23:02 tantek also I don't think IndieWebCat made it to any of the actual camps
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# 23:23 tantek.com edited /2014-review (+168) "use Brian Hendrickson dynamic twitter profile icon instead of static (past) twitter profile icon, restore Dora (IWC Online), expand div with some CSS to get more folks per row" (
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# 23:29 aaronpk yeah @indiewebcat was definitely at IWC online, although she may have been napping a bit during it
# 23:42 kylewm the beeminder kids are missing (maybe on purpose)
# 23:50 tantek that's basically what I had envisioned when I proposed it. glad it makes sense!
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