#indiewebcamp 2015-01-21

2015-01-21 UTC
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bret
Phyks: nice post btw!
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bret
Phyks++
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Loqi
Phyks has 5 karma
prtksxna, tantek_, nloadholtes, tantek, snarfed, KartikPrabhu, GWG and minsky joined the channel
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: aaronpk: wodering what this was about: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-01-20#t1421793151916 can't seem to decipher context
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KartikPrabhu
maybe Loqi went away and is missing from logs?
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: no see prev wiki edit before that from aaronpk
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tantek
for the context
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: for that: one could just show up and people would help one get setup and register at an IWC no?
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tantek
just show up where? here in IRC? yes.
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KartikPrabhu
no at IWC?
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KartikPrabhu
i mean if someone just showed up and didn't register or have a rel-me etc... they wouldn't be sent back
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KartikPrabhu
of course I don't mean that "just show up" should be put on the wiki. But "just showing up" demostrates some initiative
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tantek
and we have something like that - it's called being an apprentice
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tantek
which means you have to AT LEAST try to contact someone who is registered and ask to be their apprentice
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tantek
or ask here in the channel
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tantek
if you're not willing to show that much initiative, then why should you take up room that someone else could use?
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KartikPrabhu
possibly yes
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tantek
it's good to have intentional barriers like that
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tantek
essay coming up
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tantek.com
edited /IndieWebCamps (+3697) "/* FAQ */ write an essay in response to the high bar question that aaronpk appears to be getting. Maybe I should blog this."
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tantek
Even though I put it on the wiki first, I feel like I need to blog this: https://indiewebcamp.com/IndieWebCamps#Why_is_there_a_high_bar_for_registering
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KevinMarks____
You should explain that hwc has a lower barrier to entry too
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Loqi
agreed.
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tantek
KevinMarks - I'll wait for that to be an actual problem
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KevinMarks____
On both sides - you're committing a couple of hours rather than days
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KevinMarks____
And it's taking up less creators time
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KevinMarks____
It's part of that faq as hwc is an onboarding experience for iwc
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tantek
KevinMarks in practice it is not because very few locations have both
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tantek
so no
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tantek
that's a good (but separate) FAQ about HWC
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tantek
please add it to http://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club if you believe in it
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KevinMarks____
For the problem Aaron was talking about, it is a good fit
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tantek
it is not - do you know what location aaronpk was talking about?
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tantek
!tell aaronpk for which location was someone (or how many people) asking the high bar question?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KevinMarks____
Your essay is not location specific
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tantek
correct. already answered: very few locations have both, thus my essay applies to the vast majority of IndieWebCamps, and I'm *guessing* the one that aaronpk is being bugged about
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tantek
besides the amount of travel time for the average person to make it to a HWC is >> the amount of time to setup a personal website. or to hop into this channel and ask
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tantek
this is about time and math and respect
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tantek
and I suppose about humility (counter-arrogance) (the ability to "ask for help")
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tantek
what I left out of the response
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tantek
the barriers are deliberately designed to discourage those who:
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tantek
lack passion for a personal site - sorry, if you don't care, you're likely diluting an indiewebcamp - not contributing to it
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tantek
not interested in learning
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tantek
too proud to ask for help
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tantek
don't have time to setup indieauth (then you certainly don't have time to spend at an indiewebcamp)
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tantek
don't care about adding even small things to the wiki - then you don't care about our kind of community, and we'd rather focus indiewebcamps on people who do all step up to doing that
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tantek
that's more blog post fodder than FAQ fodder
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tantek
so yes, the barriers are designed as a filter. to filter in the qualities that help make a healthy indiewebcamp community, and perhaps more importantly to filter OUT the qualities that dilute or destroy community.
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tantek
I'm also trying to work in a way of referencing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof-of-work_system as another way of describing some of what we ask - as a way to make sure people aren't spammers, harrassers, etc.
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tantek
in this case the simple "work" is setting up your own site with indieauth and editing the wiki
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tantek
a human function, rather than a CPU function
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kevinmarks.com
edited /IndieWebCamps (+105) "/* Why is there a high bar for registering */"
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tommorris
web architecture nerds and fans of URLs may enjoy my latest post: https://tommorris.org/posts/9194 :)
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KevinMarks_
are you coming to the microformats thing, tom?
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KevinMarks_
are doi's not resolved by google scholar or the internet archive?
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tommorris
KevinMarks_: yep.
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tommorris
and, I'm sure Google and Internet Archive probably keep mappings of DOIs to things, but the canonical resolver is dx.doi.org
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KevinMarks_
this is the weird thing now, that searching the quotation is more resilient than the reference
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KevinMarks_
noticing this with my sons' essays - I don't have the jstor access they do, but given the quote I cna usually find some uni that has posted the paper online
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tommorris
if I had whitehouse.gov, I'd sure want that to be the canonical place for my stuff. :)
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KevinMarks_
well, given whitehouse.gov's known site death problems
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KevinMarks_
wasn't there a huge site death when the presidency changed?
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tommorris
same in the UK. that's why the National Archives basically just ran an internal Internet Archive-style dump of everything.
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tommorris
also, on cool government domains, though whitehouse.gov is good, it's not quite as good as friends of mine who have email addresses @digital.justice.gov.uk
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Tantek__
Darn it. According to google maps I'm going to be 15min late for the microformats dev meetup. Tommorris kevinmarks kylewm can you all find each other and grab some adjacent table space?
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Tantek__
See you as soon as I can safely get there.
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tommorris
Tantek__: sure
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KevinMarks_
does Lord Justice have justice@digital.justuce.gov.uk ?
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kylewm
tommorris: I went one exit too far on Bart like a noob. heading back toward the mall in two minutes
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tommorris
kylewm: just leaving for there in a sec.
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KevinMarks_
about to bike over from the station
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kylewm
just don't go up the curved escalators. dead end!
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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KartikPrabhu
welcome kylewm-du-dome do you have a website? ;)
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kylewm-du-dome
oui bien monsieur!
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KartikPrabhu
cava bien!
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kylewm-du-dome
I also have a free wifi hotspot that blocks my ZNC port
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KevinMarks_
evening all
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aaronpk
evening
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Loqi
aaronpk: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 38 minutes ago: for which location was someone (or how many people) asking the high bar question?
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KevinMarks_
you can go up the curved escalators, but you have to stop after 3 and walk out to the right
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aaronpk
KevinMarks_ ????
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KevinMarks_
that was in response to kylewm_
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tommorris.org
edited /IRC_People (-78) "replacing image"
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KevinMarks_
I have my t-mobile tether
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aaronparecki.com
edited /IndieWebCamps (-1) "/* Why is there a high bar for registering */ typo"
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aaronparecki.com
edited /IndieWebCamps (+21) "/* Why is there a high bar for registering */"
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KevinMarks_
GWG are you here
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KevinMarks_
!tell GWG the mixed mf2 in microfomtas 1 is confusing parsers - see the "content" and "name" parsed here: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jeanmrussell.com%2Ftesting-brid-gy%2F
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KevinMarks_
!tell GWG we're discussing changing the back compatibility rules to not add mf2 properties to mf1 containers
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG
Was someone looking for me?
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Loqi
GWG: KevinMarks_ left you a message 14 minutes ago: the mixed mf2 in microfomtas 1 is confusing parsers - see the "content" and "name" parsed here: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jeanmrussell.com%2Ftesting-brid-gy%2F
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Loqi
GWG: KevinMarks_ left you a message 13 minutes ago: we're discussing changing the back compatibility rules to not add mf2 properties to mf1 containers
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Loqi
GWG: KevinMarks_ left you a message 12 minutes ago: see http://logs.glob.uno/?c=freenode%23microformats&s=today#c77062
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KevinMarks_
hi, we're in #microformats trying to work out the mixed mode implications for parsres
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tantek
welcome back GWG :)
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KevinMarks_
and what the constraints are with different combinations of plugins
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GWG
That would be a problem for backwards compatibility, wouldn't it?
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KevinMarks_
that's what we're trying to work out - implied properties don't make sense for an mf1 marked-up post as that was never intended
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KevinMarks_
but if you have an mf1 container with mf2 contents, it gets trickire
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tantek
!tell voxpelli I resent the webmention to KevinMarks's post and my face in the facepile now errantly links to my home page (tantek.com) instead of the like permalink: http://tantek.com/2015/016/f1 (but at least it changed in real time! it used to link to tantek.com/2015)
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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voxpelli
tantek: it's actually meant to link to your profile like that, as it could only link to one or the other I thought the author profile was more interesting
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Loqi
voxpelli: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 59 minutes ago: I resent the webmention to KevinMarks's post and my face in the facepile now errantly links to my home page (tantek.com) instead of the like permalink: http://tantek.com/2015/016/f1 (but at least it changed in real time! it used to link to tantek.com/2015)
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tantek
huh - yet the retweets link to specific permalinks
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tantek
seems to make more sense to link to a permalink (verification) when you have it
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tantek
and then only fallback to author / profile links
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tantek.com
edited /2014-review (+125) "/* Indie Term Re-use */ criticism overlap"
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@btconf
@textformer @indiewebcamp welcome on board! Looking forward to say hello. #btconf
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fkooman
aaronpk: hi! i am having some problems with using indieauth with 'https://www.tuxed.net/fkooman', can you see what is going on? sometimes there is a TLS error, sometimes it doesn't find and rel links, sometimes only GitHub, but continuing with GitHub still doesn't work then :(
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Loqi
Welcome to news about the IndieWeb where recent notable articles about the IndieWeb are cited and linked to keep you up to date https://indiewebcamp.com/going_on
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michielbdejong
fkooman: if you click Re-Scan it gets the SSL error. But if you refresh the page it recognizes github.
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Loqi
michielbdejong: KartikPrabhu left you a message 3 days, 9 hours ago: getting errors while webmentioning your Known site: https://indiewebcamp.com/Known#The_target_page_does_not_exist
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Loqi
michielbdejong: tantek left you a message 2 days, 11 hours ago: I've tried sending webmentions to your new Known site but keep getting 400 errors, documented details here: https://indiewebcamp.com/Known#The_target_page_does_not_exist maybe a problem with your htaccess or Known configuration?
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michielbdejong
This might be because of the bug where the IndieAuth server needs to be restarted every hour
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michielbdejong
Maybe it will work in one hour
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@USEReadyInc
Check out the BOLD NEW LOOK of @USEReadyInc http://www.useready.com #OwnYourData
(twtr.io/vMHRUm51eC)
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@lkafle
RT @salisburymw: I hope my #BRCA testing saga helps to shed light on the problems facing genetic testing. #ownyourdata @techonomy http://t.…
(twtr.io/vMHnBzkNmR)
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michielbdejong.com
edited /Known (-180) "/* The target page does not exist */ mention workaround webmention problem"
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@prash8187
RT @USEReadyInc: Check out the BOLD NEW LOOK of @USEReadyInc http://www.useready.com #OwnYourData
(twtr.io/vMKF94Q0Rc)
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michielbdejong
!tell tantek thanks for reporting the webmention error, I found a workaround for it, should be working now.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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michielbdejong
!tell KartikPrabhu thanks for reporting the webmention error, I found a workaround for it, should be working now.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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elf-pavlik
and in case you come hacking with us in Graz mid April we could try make one there as well :) https://twitter.com/elfpavlik/status/557821334324248577
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@murdelta
@elfpavlik @indiewebcamp @elevate_dan @peacekeeper Do you have any more information or are you just in early planning?
(twtr.io/vMTBZdvnC0)
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@USEReady_DH
RT @USEReadyInc: Check out the BOLD NEW LOOK of @USEReadyInc http://www.useready.com #OwnYourData
(twtr.io/vMZZyA9AYY)
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Phyks
bret: ty :)
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GWG
I need some advice. Playing with models on my test site. Still needs refining, but if you go to tiny.n9n.us and click a photo, how does it look?
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@elfpavlik
@murdelta just an idea, i need to check if at least one seasoned #IndieWeb participant could join! @marcthiele /cc @elevate_dan @peacekeeper
(twtr.io/vMiEfQ8xb0)
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tantek
good morning #indiewebcamp!
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Loqi
tantek: michielbdejong left you a message 6 hours, 36 minutes ago: thanks for reporting the webmention error, I found a workaround for it, should be working now.
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voxpelli
good morning tantek!
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tantek
catches up on logs
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KartikPrabhu
so wordpress shows up as "bad" on HTTPS support: https://httpswatch.com/global
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GWG
How so?
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu: michielbdejong left you a message 6 hours, 42 minutes ago: thanks for reporting the webmention error, I found a workaround for it, should be working now.
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KartikPrabhu
GWG: see link
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GWG
Doesn't surprise me. But it makes it look like the open source software is
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kylewm
this is wordpress.com not wordpress in general, right?
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GWG
Yes.
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GWG
WordPress the platform is as HTTPS as the person hosting it makes it
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@Nadreck
@rstevens Look into Known. New system, indieweb focused.
(twtr.io/vMwU7jtG14)
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upon2020.com
edited /Events (+555) "should have added this earlier"
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@BennyLindemann
Gerade gefunden: @wallabagapp Eine #DIY Alternative zu @pocket oder @instapaper Setup auf nem #RaspberryPi folgt! #OwnYourData #privacy
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@kevinmarks
RT @Nadreck: @rstevens Look into Known. New system, indieweb focused.
(twtr.io/vMy7EHTvJR)
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: perhaps add that httpswatch thing about wordpress dot com to indiewebcamp.com/WordPress.com in a Criticism section?
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tantek
!tell michielbdejong yes it worked! I got a 202 with that same curl command and the like showed up: https://michielbdejong.com/2015/joining-the-indie-web-my-motivation-cc-by-michiel-de-jong#comments Thank you for updating the Troubleshooting!
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek
michielbdejong++
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Loqi
michielbdejong has 6 karma
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GWG
I still need an opinion, if anyone is available.
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GWG
I can't figure out the best way to do something
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bret
heh, i do now pdurbin! ill check it out
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aaronpk
fkooman: i'm getting an error that your ssl cert doesn't match the name, but it works fine for me in the browser
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bret
pdurbin: that is super lulzy
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tantek
pdurbin: wow.
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aaronpk
tommorris had a great post about that https://tommorris.org/posts/9194
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bret
documents need to cache their own references if they actually care about longevity, pointers cant be trusted long term!
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voxpelli
I'm thinking of highlighting where a WebMention was posted and if it was posted through a third-party site, but can't really find any thoughts on how to best do that in the wiki
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bret
also “let’s just give a number to everything” is about as antiquated as the phone number system lol
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voxpelli
I noticed that eg. aaronpk only shows origin of mentions through favicons-like icons in the facepile
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pdurbin
aaronpk: interesting. hadn't seen that
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aaronpk
voxpelli: where a webmention was posted? how do you mean?
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voxpelli
aaronpk: I meant on the site a WebMention mentioned
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voxpelli
I was thinking something like "Published 2 days ago on [twitter.com] through [brid.gy]"
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aaronpk
the icons I show are just twitter, facebook and instagram icons if the author URL matches that domain
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aaronpk
I do something like that when I show vouched mentions now
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voxpelli
Would love to give some cred to indieweb friendly tools like brid.gy and I guess something like app.net if they were to send WebMentions themselves
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aaronpk
ah gotcha
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aaronpk
there isn't really a mechanism in the webmention protocol for the webmention sender to authenticate itself
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voxpelli
Twitter showing which apps a tweet was posted through was probably key in creating the thriving ecosystem it had
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aaronpk
totally. people are already doing that with micropub posts
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voxpelli
Yeah, I was thinking of initially matching the hostname of the source URL and the h-entry URL – source URL being Brid.gy, the h-entry URL being eg. Twitter
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aaronpk
take a look at my notes or photos, they'll say "posted via quill.p3k.io" or "posted via ownyourgram.com"
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voxpelli
Would it make sense to mark that data up so it could show on other sites pulling in that comment as well?
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aaronpk
interesting
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aaronpk
have there been any other webmention proxys or senders?
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voxpelli
I guess some tools both do the micropub publishing and the pinging or such?
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aaronpk
there's also a difference between something like bridgy which is a proxy for webmentions vs things like the page on indiewebify.me which can send webmentions on your behalf
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aaronpk
the difference is bridgy creates source URLs on its own, but indiewebify.me uses your own source URL
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voxpelli
ownyourgram and bridgy is kind of similar only that ownyourgram pushes the data to your site whereas bridgy creates its own source URL
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voxpelli
so if ownyourgram were to trigger webmentions it could be interesting to highlight it as the app/tool in WebMentions – and also in IndieReaders
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aaronpk
oh like ownyourgram could send webmentions for comments on the instagram photos it posted?
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aaronpk
(i'm unlikely to make it do that because bridgy already handles instagram, but I get your point)
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voxpelli
yep, and my endpoint showing the mention as "posted 1 day ago on aaronparecki.com with ownyourgram"
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voxpelli
so if that data could just be marked up somehow as part of the h-entry that would enable discoverability of tools in all readers
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tantek.com
edited /Ello (+89) "/* See Also */ add oodbye.co critic site"
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aaronpk
i like the idea. thinking about how to display it and how to determine what was used for webmentions
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voxpelli
aaronpk: can't really find the "posted via quill.p3k.io" on your site, am I perhaps looking in the wrong place?
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voxpelli
seems like you are already marking it up with u-client-id, great!
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aaronpk
oh hey!
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aaronpk
forgot I did that ;)
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voxpelli
and then there's http://indiewebcamp.com/h-x-app on the Quill page, nice!
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aaronpk
indieauth.com parses that to show the app name and icon when you're signing in
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aaronparecki.com
edited /h-x-app (+517) "add quill and wiki examples"
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aaronpk
so i'm totally stumped on this fkooman thing
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aaronpk
when the server is running the indieauth.com code, it gets an ssl error trying to fetch https://www.tuxed.net/fkooman/
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aaronpk
but when I go to the server and drop into the interactive shell, I can fetch it just fine
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aaronpk
fkooman: the server doesn't seem to have any problem fetching https://tuxed.net/fkooman/ ... is there a particular reason you're using the "www" prefix?
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@mshook
Bridgy https://www.brid.gy/ #via #viavia #known #withknown #social #indieweb
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@4winner
RT @Nadreck: @rstevens Look into Known. New system, indieweb focused.
(twtr.io/vN9gBW4i9s)
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cweiske
is anyone using the firefox social api for his micropub client?
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tantek
sees that tommorris 's site supports receiving webmentions but wonders if likes are displayed anywhere (or fallback to comments)
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cweiske
semanticscuttle (bookmark manager) using the firefox social api for bookmarking: http://fotostore.cweiske.de/screenshots/2015-01-21%20firefox%20semanticscuttle%20social%20api%20bookmarks.png
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kylewm
cweiske: Known has a social API post interface, but not micropub
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cweiske
native browser support for bookmarking and sharing
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cweiske
isn't that what indieactions wanted?
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GWG
KevinMarks_: Get Jeff Jarvis onto the Indieweb?
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GWG
To stop posting snippets on his own site and full pieces of his book on medium?
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KevinMarks_
he's not on this week - at Davos
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GWG
Oh well
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GWG
How about getting me some people for an HWC in NYC?
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GWG
You could also recruit for SFO, CHI, PDX, and wherever else they are looking
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GWG
STL and BLI are looking too, according to http://indiewebcamp.com/hwc
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@shanley
is there a text editor that you write in it like a twitter interface lol
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@iroc
@shanley I have long wanted some kind of service where you can chat w/ an intelligent bot or rep in an IM window as a way to churn out ideas
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tantek
isn't that kind of what we have in #indiewebcamp IRC? "write in a like a twitter interface" (limited to n? chars)
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tantek
though Loqi is not quite "can chat w/ an intelligent bot"… yet ;)
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sebastian.kip.pe
edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (+458) "/* Participants */"
(view diff)
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voxpelli
Is there a mf2 equivilant to rel-home? Or what's the prefered way to point out the frontpage on eg. a h-entry page?
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bret
voxpelli: isnt that just the URL of the author?
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tantek
voxpelli: since it's a page-to-page relationship, not sure what else you need beyond rel-home
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tantek
as in - what use-case are you trying to solve?
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voxpelli
tantek: trying to add a "posted 2 days ago on <site name>" to comments
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rascul
ponders serving his site from ramdisk
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tantek
voxpelli: that sounds like you're looking for h-feed p-name
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voxpelli
tantek: I want a link for it as well though
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tantek
oh wait you said *comments*
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Loqi
gives voxpelli a link for it as well though
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aaronpk
rascul: doesn't the OS cache stuff in RAM anyway?
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voxpelli
commentas as in WebMentioned imported h-entries
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tantek
presuming you're already using h-cite to markup comments
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tantek
then use p-publisher for marking up the site name / source
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rascul
aaronpk yes but there's no way to be sure it stays there or for how long
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rascul
well, not without a bunch of hacks anyway
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tantek
looks for an example
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aaronpk
i bet someone has tried this before
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bret
rascul: do you use config management at all for your servers?
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rascul
bret i don't
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tantek
sounds like work
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rascul
ramdisk is easy :)
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voxpelli
tantek: sorry for not being clear with what I'm doing – so I'm importing a post after they have WebMentioned me and I want to link to the front page of the site that the original post was posted on – not the author archive
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aaronpk
voxpelli: under what circumstances do you expect the "front page of the site" to be different from the author's URL?
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tantek
I'd agree with aaronpk - why "front page" of the site? there's no proof that the post was ever on the "front page" of the site
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voxpelli
aaronpk: multi-author blogs for example
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rascul
i'm doing big server changes right now though, so site changes aren't viable for me quite yet
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tantek
and thus the text "posted on …" is potentially misleading
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voxpelli
or indie-friendly sites like app.net
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bret
rascul: i just started playing with ansible over the last few weeks, captured a lot of my dev machine configuration into a repository: https://github.com/bcomnes/ansible-dotfiles next step is capturing server config
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tantek
voxpelli: seems like noise in the UI on your side
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rascul
bret i'm building tiny, single purpose read only virtual machines with buildroot to run things in
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bret
cool
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tantek
voxpelli: consider instead "posted using …" (name of tool or site)
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bret
complexity--
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Loqi
complexity has -1 karma
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tantek
which has more prior art
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voxpelli
tantek: it would add nice discoverability for tools though + many are already hard-coding similar solutions for the biggest silos, highlighting content from just twitter and similar
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tantek
then "Posted using …" not "Posted on ..."
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Loqi
[bridgy] ♕ Suzanne Zaleski ♕ replied '@gRegorLove how is mommer doing?' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club (https://twitter.com/MsSwank/status/558013135932899330)
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tantek
and yeah I've been using poshformat class name for "using" for sometime
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voxpelli
sure, would rel-home be the right thing to use then for "site"?
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rascul
bret when i get it running (almost there, just got over the last major hurdle) i'll work on publicly documenting what i did, someone might find it interesting
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tantek
it would - however it wouldn't give you something accurate for "Posted on …"
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tantek
since like I said - any particular post might not have ever been on the "home" page
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voxpelli
I meant for your suggestion of "Posted using..."
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aaronpk
here's more prior art for this... hackernews!
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aaronpk
it shows the domain name of the URL of submissions
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tantek
voxpelli: no - rel-home is not right for "tool"
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tantek
more like the work that aaronpk has been doing with micropub and app
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tantek
and linking to the *tool* home page, not the home page of the person posting
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KevinMarks_
rel-generator?
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tantek
anybody use that KevinMarks?
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aaronpk
I used "u-client-id" in my markup because it's the value of the client ID used during IndieAuth
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voxpelli
tantek: arronpk's work on tools was what I'm going to use, the u-client-id, but wanted more
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tantek
e.g. for your Tweet compilations … does it say noterlive? ;)
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KevinMarks_
that's the atom name for it, from hAtom
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tantek
yeah client-id sounds like an opaque number / code
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voxpelli
ideally I would like the same discoverability of tools as Twitter had when their ecosystem was thriving – every tweet having a link to the app which posted it – doing the same for eg. brid.gy would be nice – will just try something with client-id then
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tantek
what are tools?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "tools" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=tools
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tantek
voxpelli: now that is a very good use-case. please stub it out there ^^^
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tantek
capturing such use-cases is very valuable
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voxpelli
will do
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voxpelli
btw, known that the wiki doesn't redirect to https but that indieauth only logs you in on https, not http?
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aaronpk
yes it's confusing
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aaronpk
I want to redirect everything but need an image proxy first to avoid mixed content warnings
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GWG
aaronpk: I know a cheap CDN that supports https, if that helps
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aaronpk
not really. I need to figure out how to make a mediawiki filter that can rewrite hotlinked image URLs
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aaronpk
and then run an image proxy somewhere
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kodfabrik.se
created /tools (+765) "First stab at writing down thoughts around tools discoverability"
(view diff)
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voxpelli
aaronpk: perhaps you can take a look at that page and add some of your thoughts as well=
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aaronpk
oh hey i just remembered there's a whole section on that here http://indiewebcamp.com/giving-credit#Crediting_Applications
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GWG
is reading the /photo page
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GWG
Anyone have any good photo post thoughts?
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aaronpk
just had a thought
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aaronpk
the work snarfed and I did in webmention.io to make it show nice sentences here is great, and I don't want to re-create the logic in PHP for my site
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aaronpk
I'm wondering if I can have my site send a copy of all my webmentions to webmention.io so that it generates the text for me
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voxpelli
aaronpk: giving-crdit, nice! makes the new page unnecessary for now :P
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aaronpk
or perhaps we can move the crediting apps section to tools, since the credit page also talks about crediting people
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kylewm
!tell snarfed I'm looking at the facebook API, it seems there is no way to find a post ID from its URL anymore?? (or a user ID from their username). I must be wrong right?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm
oh yeah the facebook API is super broken
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aaronpk
what else is new?
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kylewm
aaronpk++
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Loqi
aaronpk has 669 karma
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kylewm
!tell snarfed here's an example, I tried to like this status, got a 403 because you can't look up the post by its bare ID https://kylewm.com/2015/01/burn
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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snarfed
kylewm: looking
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Loqi
snarfed: kylewm left you a message 13 minutes ago: I'm looking at the facebook API, it seems there is no way to find a post ID from its URL anymore?? (or a user ID from their username). I must be wrong right?
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Loqi
snarfed: kylewm left you a message 2 minutes ago: here's an example, I tried to like this status, got a 403 because you can't look up the post by its bare ID https://kylewm.com/2015/01/burn
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snarfed
ah. yes. for a url like that - https://www.facebook.com/stephanie.rodgers.980/posts/10100784173551758 - you may have to look up graph.facebook.com/v2.2/stephanie.rodgers.980, grab her id, then prefix it to the post id
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snarfed
sucks huh
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kylewm
i've been following along, that's what made me hopeful that you could lookup by username
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Loqi
hehe
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kylewm
that second lookup doesn't work though
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snarfed
by bare username yes, but they don't usually support USERNAME_OBJECTID
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snarfed
well you need a token :P
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kylewm
"message": "(#803) Cannot query users by their username (stephanie.rodgers.980)",
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kylewm
no i'm doing it in the API Exploder
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snarfed
ahhh right. works for pages, but not for users? huh
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snarfed
ugh, then yeah, you did all your homework. maybe via search?
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snarfed
so one hard problem in sw/system development is schema migration without downtime. you can do it by supporting both old and new while you transform old data, then remove the code paths for the old
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snarfed
FB is good at the availability ("without downtime") part, but awful at removing the old code paths
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snarfed
they never do
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snarfed
that's (imho) the primary cause of aaronpk's "super broken" comment
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aaronpk
what's my super broken comment?
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snarfed
oh nm kylewm said that :P
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kylewm
aaronpk just agreed with me
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snarfed
anyway, keeping all old code around leaks up above the API and causes problems like this :/
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snarfed
(obligatory: migration is hard, let's go shopping)
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kylewm
but this is a feature that was explicitly removed in 2.0 right?
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snarfed
just read the SO post. are you effing kidding me, you can't look up by username any more?!?!?!?!?
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snarfed
(and i've seen wizkid on other FB SO q's, he generally knows what he's talking about)
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snarfed
ugh, horrible
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kylewm
it's bad news for Bridgy Publish doing any kind of replies/likes/shares of facebook posts :(
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snarfed
yes, yes it is :(
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kylewm
and it also makes it impossible for me to fetch reply context from a facebook post
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snarfed
what i *still* don't get is when a bare post id will work and when it won't
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kylewm
yeah, that is very confusing
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snarfed
sometimes i think it's consistent to certain post types, but i always find a counterexample
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snarfed
in other news, i went through FB review for the read_stream permission for a-u and got rejected :(
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kylewm
ah interesting
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kylewm
but you can just have people generate their own app id like for twitter-atom right?
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snarfed
and they've explicitly denied it to feed reader use cases before, and talked to press about it, so i didn't bother applying for facebook-atom
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snarfed
yeah that's what i'll have to do for fb-a
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KevinMarks_
talking knowledge graph and microformats on TWiG
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snarfed
what i find funny is that they explicitly endorse an app that asks you to generate yoru own app key for personal use
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snarfed
finding the link
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GWG
KevinMarks_: I'll catch it on the DL
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kylewm
tuning in KevinMarks_
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kylewm
gray day in san jose
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GWG
kylewm: Do you know the way there?
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snarfed
hey kylewm, i can't see that stephanie rodgers post. would you mind skimming it to see if you can find anything unusual?
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snarfed
any possible reason that one can't be looked up by id
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KevinMarks_
what is my tool or tip of the week
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "my tool or tip of the week" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=my+tool+or+tip+of+the+week
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kylewm
which is public and someone we're both friends with
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snarfed
kylewm: thx
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snarfed
kylewm: oh man and that's a pure text post too, no picture or location or link or anything. goddamn.
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KevinMarks_
any shiny new indieweb things?
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snarfed
KevinMarks_: https://github.com/snarfed/ownyourcheckin ? automatic pesos for FB checkins
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snarfed
supports any wordpress, so it's accessible ish at least
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tantek
checks logs
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tantek
good afternoon #indiewebcamp!
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snarfed
hey tantek
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kylewm
snarfed: do you know if bridgy have privileges to run /me/taggable_friends?
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snarfed
kylewm: not sure. fb docs should say if/which perms it needs, and https://developers.facebook.com/apps/256884317673197/review-status/ says which bridgy has (you should be able to see that)
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snarfed
tantek: current status, 1) KevinMarks_ is on a podcast and needs a new indieweb thing to plug
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KevinMarks_
I mentioned microformats in the editorial bit already
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snarfed
2) looks like FB v2.0 API breaks bridgy publish for some posts…but not all…and we have no way to tell them apart yet :(
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tantek
Kevinmarks - any feedback on microformats2?
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tantek
checks recent changes
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tantek
KevinMarks - got one for you!
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tantek
mention 10 year anniversary of rel=tag, the distributed tagging standard we developed, which was eventually incorporated into HTML5
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tantek
and as the follow-up
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tantek
as in, then recently...
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tantek
we've figured out distriibuted *person* tagging on the IndieWeb
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tantek
so just as silos like FB, IG, Flickr let you tag people in posts and photos
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tantek
we have figured out how to do that in your own posts
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tantek
AND on other people's posts
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KevinMarks_
We wer discussing h-cards and author markup already
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tantek
up level to user feature
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KevinMarks_
contrasting google dropping it and us doing it indieweb
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KevinMarks_
for webmentions
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tantek
great
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tantek
built on top of h-card and webmention as well
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tantek
many ways to combine the fundamental building blocks of microformats and webmention
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tantek
person-tagging is a big deal because 1) you can only do it on silos currently, and 2) this is the first open standards proposal to do so using simple HTML, from one website peer to peer to another
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aaronpk
tantek is writing a whole blog post, one line of IRC at a time!
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tantek
and this leads into - you have a sample of it on your own site
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kylewm
snarfed: so it says you need user_friends (which we have) and also "usage of this edge requires review of your app"
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tantek
lol aaronpk - hence I quoted Shanley's tweet above asking for that
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tantek
"text editor that you write in it like a twitter interface"
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kylewm
we have like a real weird cyrano debergerac situation going on here
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tantek
is there some place we can listen to the podcast live?
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kylewm
it's wrapping up
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snarfed
kylewm: "review of your app" usually just means to get the perm
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snarfed
so if we have it, then maybe it theoretically should work
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kylewm.com
edited /Facebook (+974) "/* Downtime */ add API issues"
(view diff)
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KevinMarks_
I didn't read t's points until afterwards
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KevinMarks_
Shanley wants noterlive.com?
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kylewm
KevinMarks_: lol you guys were on the same page!
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tantek
it's really new
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millette
speaking of people tagging, I remember foaf - but I forget, what did wordpress offer with its blogroll feature, to tag family and friends?
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millette
ah, thanks!
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tantek
but that was for describing the relationship, rather than person tagging
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KevinMarks_
leo is now trying webmention.herokuapp.com
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snarfed
"WaaS"
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tantek
what is WaaS?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "WaaS" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=WaaS
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tantek
KevinMarks_: with indieweb, you choose your own level of tinkering that you want.
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GWG
Note WordPress disabled blogroll, later links by default a while back
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tantek
GWG - because blogrolls fell out of fashion
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tantek
what is sharecropping?
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Loqi
sharecropping in the context of the IndieWeb is the practice of primarily or exclusively creating/publishing content on silos as opposed to doing so first (or primarily) on your own site, and those that do publish primarily or exclusively on silos are known as sharecroppers https://indiewebcamp.com/sharecropping
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tantek
what is digital sharecropping?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "digital sharecropping" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=digital+sharecropping
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GWG
tantek: So....telling people what sites you thought were important is unfashionable?
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tantek
GWG - blogrolls were originally about people, not just "sites"
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tantek
GWG - having them in a semi-static sidebar became unfashionable
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millette
and 404s
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KevinMarks_
I stll have one, though it is a lot of 404s
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aaronpk
isn't that basically a "following" list like how twitter and facebook show it?
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millette
what is xfn?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "xfn" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=xfn
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tantek
aaronpk - it kind of served that role
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millette
with a vocabulary saying if it's family, friend, coworker, etc.
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GWG
tantek: I usually had a page for them.
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tantek
millette: MySQL indexing/search bug
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KevinMarks_
twitter used to have xfn markup on it
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tantek
and as KevinMarks just demonstrated - quickly falls out of date
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tantek
too much of a chore to maintain
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tantek
of course not that pruning / updating followings etc has gotten much (any?) better
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kylewm
is one too
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tantek
any of those 404?
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kylewm
that'd be a nice browser extension that shows 404 links as crossed out, like wikipedia
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millette
I have a weird feeling indieweb appeals to old school webbers, but not so popular with the new crowd. I hope I am wrong.
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tantek
some used it more like Anil - as a way of recommending or framing publishers
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tantek
millette: depends which old school and which new school you speak of
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tantek
could you be more specific?
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kylewm
3 404s (or equivalent) on Anil's list
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tantek
kylewm: evidence that he hasn't touched it in a while
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millette
people you used to have blogs, some who handcoded html, don't depend on js for everything, etc.
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KevinMarks_
who supports homepage webmentions?
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aaronpk
What do you mean supports?
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tantek
millette: almost no one hand codes HTML any more. many handcode templates however, which includes some HTML handcoding (typically)
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millette
As I said before, I was involved with indie/fedweb until 4-5 years ago. It's good to return, but I see reckognise to many names :-)
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aaronpk
I accept them and show them on aaronparecki.com/mentions along with the others
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KevinMarks_
if I send the webmentions for all the HWC people I tagged, will they a) know about it b) show it on their site?
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millette
yes, templates - some understanding of html required.
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tantek
millette: did you attend the 2010 Federated Social Web Summit?
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millette
I don't go out much :-(
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KevinMarks_
sends them anyway
#
tantek
curious what you mean by "was involved with indie/fedweb"
#
millette
coming to this channel a last week reminded me of #joiito
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KevinMarks_
apparently only 3
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tantek
hah! yeah - that's probably because KevinMarks and I met on #joiito ;)
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millette
I was a laconica developper and developped a bunch of little tools (all gone)
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tantek
so there's some #joiito cultural DNA here, subconsciously at least
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KevinMarks_
#joiito has a slack now
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tantek
millette: did you preserve your own laconica install on your own site and keep your permalinks working?
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tantek
KevinMarks_: and Joi posts updates on LinkedIn instead of his own site :/
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millette
no, I've been a uncool