#indiewebcamp 2015-01-26

2015-01-26 UTC
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@All_IT_News [윤석찬] 인디웹(IndieWeb)을 아십니까?: 트위터 및 페이스북 등 소셜네트워크가 창궐(?)하다보니 이제 아예 여기서 주로 서식하는 경우가 많아집니다. 우리는 갈라파고스를 혐오하면서도 스스로 ... http://channy.creation.net/blog/1021?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (twitter.com/_/status/559501833765261312)
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@amder3 인디웹(IndieWeb)을 아십니까?: 트위터 및 페이스북 등 소셜네트워크가 창궐(?)하다보니 이제 아예 여기서 주로 서식하는 경우가 많아집니다. 우리는 갈라파고스를 혐오하면서도 스스로 거기에 갇히... http://channy.creation.net/blog/1021?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (twitter.com/_/status/559501835455578112)
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@ydkimm2 인디웹(IndieWeb)을 아십니까?: 트위터 및 페이스북 등 소셜네트워크가 창궐(?)하다보니 이제 아예 여기서 주로 서식하는 경우가 많아집니다. 우리는 갈라파고스를 혐오하면서도 스스로 거기에 갇히... http://channy.creation.net/blog/1021?utm_source=Channy's+Blog&utm_medium=Channy's+Blog&utm_term=Channy's+Blog (twitter.com/_/status/559501837355606016)
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@Ryanfeed_RSS 인디웹(IndieWeb)을 아십니까?: 트위터 및 페이스북 등 소셜네트워크가 창궐(?)하다보니 이제 아예 여기서 주로 서식하는 경우가 많아집니다. 우리는 갈라파고스를 혐오하면서도 스스로 거기에 갇히... http://channy.creation.net/blog/1021?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (twitter.com/_/status/559501839050080257)
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@asulitfeed 인디웹(IndieWeb)을 아십니까?: 트위터 및 페이스북 등 소셜네트워크가 창궐(?)하다보니 이제 아예 여기서 주로 서식하는 경우가 많아집니다. 우리는 갈라파고스를 혐오하면서도 스스로 거기에 갇히... http://channy.creation.net/blog/1021?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed (twitter.com/_/status/559501840992051200)
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@haruair RT @channyun: "인디웹(IndieWeb)을 아십니까?" http://channy.creation.net/blog/1021 트위터 및 페이스북 등 소셜네트워크가 창궐(?)하다보니 이제 아예 여기서 주로 서식하는 경우가 많아집니다. 우리 ... http://t.c… (twitter.com/_/status/559502278055301120)
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tantek.com edited /other-languages (+7) "Korean now up to 6 articles! (including [[Main_Page]])" (view diff)
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tantek GWG, looks like another WordPress person coming online with IndieWeb, POSSE, etc.: http://thecommandline.net/2015/01/25/refining-my-posse-setup/
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GWG And they use TT-RSS
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tantek what is TT-RSS?
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Loqi tt-rss is a traditional Google Reader style feed reader that you have to self host that also supports consuming PuSH notifications https://indiewebcamp.com/tt-rss
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tantek oh neat
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GWG I established a self hosted instance of it after Reader went down
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GWG I'd suggest the developer do Indieweb stuff, but he's not very...nice
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GWG Indieweb is a very nurturing environment by comparison
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tantek well, all you can do is ask nicely
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GWG Umm...I did
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tantek that's what I mean
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GWG I had a proposal for a behavior change, I knew he could be blunt, so I was very polite and thought my comment out extensively...
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GWG And I was accused of 'bitching'.
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tantek people can be sensitive to suggested changes to their code. just keep it up with the kindness, it usually works eventually.
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tantek and if not, at least you know you tried nicely. and sometimes you have to be ok with just that.
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tantek just tried liking that thecommnadline post - got a 200 - but it didn't show up (yet) - perhaps stuck in a moderation queue
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GWG tantek: I know. But, the comment from thecommandline.net gets me thinking about what I could do with my instance and my site
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tantek GWG, do the WP plugins that accept webmentions put them in a moderation queue by default?
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@famlilia RT @channyun: "인디웹(IndieWeb)을 아십니까?" http://channy.creation.net/blog/1021 트위터 및 페이스북 등 소셜네트워크가 창궐(?)하다보니 이제 아예 여기서 주로 서식하는 경우가 많아집니다. 우리 ... http://t.c… (twitter.com/_/status/559507492443410433)
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@bugbear5 RT @channyun: "인디웹(IndieWeb)을 아십니까?" http://channy.creation.net/blog/1021 트위터 및 페이스북 등 소셜네트워크가 창궐(?)하다보니 이제 아예 여기서 주로 서식하는 경우가 많아집니다. 우리 ... http://t.c… (twitter.com/_/status/559507529382641664)
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GWG tantek: Not by default. It honors the settings for comments.
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GWG tantek: I have an idea about that though
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tantek GWG, looks like the guy translating into Korean *also* runs WP: http://channy.creation.net/blog/1021
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tantek let's see if my posting system handles Korean
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tantek well got a 200 from that like also, and also nothing showing up yet on the destiantion blog. that's 0 for 2 with liking posts on WordPress blogs today. Wondering about moderation.
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GWG tantek: WordPress moderation only has one override
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GWG If the person has a previously approved comment.
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GWG But it does that by email
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GWG acegiak, whom I haven't seen in a while, had been talking about updating the moderation, which is extensible.
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GWG While I never saw code, it made me think it would be possible to add an approval by domain
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GWG Which means you could whitelist bridgy and such
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GWG I'm doing mine manually right now
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snarfed tantek: caching is another possible culprit, e.g. on mine
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tantek snarfed, interesting. what's the timeout on such WP caches normally?
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GWG snarfed: I have a question for you.
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snarfed tantek: configurable. not sure of the default
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snarfed GWG: http://tantek.com/w/CommunicationProtocols#Dontaskifyoucanask :P
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GWG snarfed: Anything we could propose adding to Semantic Linkbacks to dedupe some of those Bridgy comments
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snarfed (ah there we go!)
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GWG snarfed: I wasn't waiting
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GWG I was prefacing
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snarfed great! next time feel free to skip the preface too :P
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snarfed re dupes, maybe? which dupes in particular?
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snarfed do you mean, when someone posses a comment, you get the one from their site and the silo posse copy?
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GWG snarfed: That, and when Bridgy was flooding me with old mentions not long ago.
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snarfed for orig vs silo posse copy, i'd love that, but not sure how. maybe exact match on text?
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snarfed search the wiki, i think others have thought this through before
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snarfed re the recent flood, part of that was dedupe-able by comparing uid and/or source url
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snarfed part was just a bad result of fb's api migration. not sure recipients could do anything about it
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GWG snarfed: Wondering if that is something worth pursuing on the WordPress plugin side.
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snarfed which?
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GWG snarfed: Deduping of all kinds
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snarfed ah. sure! has to be recipient side, so yes, the wp plugin is appropriate
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snarfed maybe first figure out how to dedupe originals and posse copies. i really think it may be on the wiki somewhere
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tantek it is
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tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#de-duplication
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tantek heck
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tantek what is dedupe
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tantek what is deduplication
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tantek what is de-dupe?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "dedupe" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=dedupe
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tantek what is de-duplication?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "deduplication" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=deduplication
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "de-duplication" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=de-duplication
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "de-dupe" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=de-dupe
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tantek.com created /dedupe (+64) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /deduplication (+64) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /de-dupe (+64) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /de-duplication (+64) "r" (view diff)
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@Gogu_K RT @channyun: "인디웹(IndieWeb)을 아십니까?" http://channy.creation.net/blog/1021 트위터 및 페이스북 등 소셜네트워크가 창궐(?)하다보니 이제 아예 여기서 주로 서식하는 경우가 많아집니다. 우리 ... http://t.c… (twitter.com/_/status/559513659018194946)
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tantek might be worth its own page at some point, but redirects to existing guidance is good enough for now
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snarfed tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 143 karma
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GWG snarfed: I might temporarily go with...if name and text is the same, it is probably the same.
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GWG Either way, I keep adding projects to my list.
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snarfed GWG++ sgtm
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snarfed heh, i know the feeling
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Loqi GWG has 60 karma
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@dalcrose RT @channyun: "인디웹(IndieWeb)을 아십니까?" http://channy.creation.net/blog/1021 트위터 및 페이스북 등 소셜네트워크가 창궐(?)하다보니 이제 아예 여기서 주로 서식하는 경우가 많아집니다. 우리 ... http://t.c… (twitter.com/_/status/559514393671528448)
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snarfed wp core actually already has code that does the same thing, ie check for exact text match…but it also might only trigger on same IP and within a time window
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@ilmol RT @channyun: "인디웹(IndieWeb)을 아십니까?" http://channy.creation.net/blog/1021 트위터 및 페이스북 등 소셜네트워크가 창궐(?)하다보니 이제 아예 여기서 주로 서식하는 경우가 많아집니다. 우리 ... http://t.c… (twitter.com/_/status/559514479054950402)
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tantek Twitter has de-dup code as well, if you post the *exact same text* through the API - it gets rejected.
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@_fronteer_ RT @channyun: "인디웹(IndieWeb)을 아십니까?" http://channy.creation.net/blog/1021 트위터 및 페이스북 등 소셜네트워크가 창궐(?)하다보니 이제 아예 여기서 주로 서식하는 경우가 많아집니다. 우리 ... http://t.c… (twitter.com/_/status/559516333818142721)
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tantek hmm - wondering if I should note that as a feature :/
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tantek sigh, here I go making more work for myself by paying too much attention ;)
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tantek is having an API considered a feature? or plumbing?
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KartikPrabhu i say plumbing
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tantek ok time to test the *UI* then
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KartikPrabhu html+mf2 should give people mostly everything
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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tantek a-ha Twitter web UI does de-dupe by giving you an error instead of a duplicate tweet: "You have already sent this Tweet."
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tantek and it even checks the previous 2 tweets
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gRegor` Welcome, gary
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tantek ok it seems to work for past 3 tweets. going to extrapolate for all.
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tantek nope - it didn't de-dupe 2013 era tweets
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tantek going to extrapolate from 3 recent tweets to - tweets in the last 24 hours. Seems like a reasonable first order approximation of their behavior
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GWG snarfed: I want to look at the comment moderation filters and add onto them
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GWG snarfed: On a positive note, Bridgy support moved higher up on the list
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@kimalec7 인디웹(IndieWeb)을 아십니까? :: Channy's Blog: http://channy.creation.net/blog/1021#.VMWPxHg09qN.twitter @channyun 님이 공유 (twitter.com/_/status/559520734255382528)
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tantek no joke I just had to deduplicate text from the wikipedia article on deduplication. Can't tell if undoing a troll or honest mistake.
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tantek tommorris: ^^^
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tommorris tantek: heh
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tantek tommorris: example when I could have reverted, but the undo with comment seemed more appropriate.
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tantek (since it looked like an attempt to add actual content not spam)
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tommorris yep, rollback is for clear and obvious vandalism. undo with a comment is more appropriate if one needs to justify
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tommorris (using rollback when explanation is needed is one reason we pull rollback from users occasionally.)
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tantek yeah that seems kinda harsh
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tommorris tends to require a fair amount of that before it gets pulled
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tommorris although I was involved in a case where we gave someone rollback and we had to pull it from them after 24 hours. so much incompetence.
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tommorris on the indieweb front, I'm contemplating doing a "Project 365" and using that as a motivation to get stuff on my own site.
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tantek had to rollback the rollbackability. or was it an undo because there were comments? ;)
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tantek tommorris: if you want to do a project 365 you'll have to hurry before it becomes a project 366 next monthish (overlapping with 2016-02-29)
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tantek tommorris: you receive webmentions, do you display likes?
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tommorris no, I recently changed my webmentions to use aaronpk's webmentions.io, but I'm not displaying them yet.
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tommorris so they are being stored on webmentions.io and I'll start displaying them. then I'll transition to handling them myself.
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tantek same boat
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tommorris as for project 36[5|6]: I'll start the year when I want.
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tantek project 1y then
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tommorris yep, or photo-a-day as some people call it
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tommorris also http://camerasize.com/compare/ is useful
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tantek.com edited /Twitter (+267) "features: create UI, character count, deduplication" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /deduplication (-25) "Redirected page to [[webmention#de-duplication]]" (view diff)
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tantek always remember to test your redirects
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tantek.com edited /dedupe (-25) "Redirected page to [[webmention#de-duplication]]" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /de-dupe (-25) "Redirected page to [[webmention#de-duplication]]" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /de-duplication (-25) "Redirected page to [[webmention#de-duplication]]" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /deduplication (+0) "Webmention (cap)" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /dedupe (-12) "irony" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /webmention (+3) """" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Webmention (+320) "/* de-duplication */ Silo examples Twitter" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Webmention (+309) "/* de-duplication */ likely needs its own article, set out the reasons for now" (view diff)
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snarfed hey tommorris!
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snarfed noticed you said you switched your wm handler to wm.io
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snarfed i've reenabled your domain on bridgy
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tommorris snarfed: thanks
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@SoshinedayKim 인디웹(IndieWeb)을 아십니까? :: Channy's Blog: http://channy.creation.net/blog/1021#.VMXCeAM1MIp.twitter @channyun 님이 공유 (twitter.com/_/status/559569245890019330)
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@xtal38 RT @channyun: "인디웹(IndieWeb)을 아십니까?" http://channy.creation.net/blog/1021 트위터 및 페이스북 등 소셜네트워크가 창궐(?)하다보니 이제 아예 여기서 주로 서식하는 경우가 많아집니다. 우리 ... http://t.c… (twitter.com/_/status/559583408930557953)
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@raccoonyy RT @channyun: "인디웹(IndieWeb)을 아십니까?" http://channy.creation.net/blog/1021 트위터 및 페이스북 등 소셜네트워크가 창궐(?)하다보니 이제 아예 여기서 주로 서식하는 경우가 많아집니다. 우리 ... http://t.c… (twitter.com/_/status/559583693396652033)
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@1st_rabbit__ RT @channyun: "인디웹(IndieWeb)을 아십니까?" http://channy.creation.net/blog/1021 트위터 및 페이스북 등 소셜네트워크가 창궐(?)하다보니 이제 아예 여기서 주로 서식하는 경우가 많아집니다. 우리 ... http://t.c… (twitter.com/_/status/559589504072179712)
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@lunamoth RT @channyun: "인디웹(IndieWeb)을 아십니까?" http://channy.creation.net/blog/1021 트위터 및 페이스북 등 소셜네트워크가 창궐(?)하다보니 이제 아예 여기서 주로 서식하는 경우가 많아집니다. 우리 ... http://t.c… (twitter.com/_/status/559592248493367296)
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@_lazy_writer_ 인디웹(IndieWeb)을 아십니까? :: Channy's Blog: http://channy.creation.net/blog/1021#.VMXyUeAlpNN.twitter via @channyun (twitter.com/_/status/559620118380937219)
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@xtal38 RT @channyun: "인디웹(IndieWeb)을 아십니까?" http://channy.creation.net/blog/1021 트위터 및 페이스북 등 소셜네트워크가 창궐(?)하다보니 이제 아예 여기서 주로 서식하는 경우가 많아집니다. 우리 ... http://t.c… (twitter.com/_/status/559631994053591040)
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csarven Can someone point me to why microformats2? For instance, what was at stake with microformats1 in for example hCard that needed a revisit for parsing? I'm sure this is documented somewhere. Would appreciate a pointer.
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csarven err, should ask this in #microformats
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csarven I should clarify: IIRC, in microformats, the storyline was to simplify authoring, and think of scripts later. In microformats2, however, the story appears to have changed a little i.e., authoring is slightly more complex or involved (depending on how you look at it), in order to improve how machines parse the information.
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Loqi I agree
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@Kabochadensha 인디웹(IndieWeb)을 아십니까? http://channy.creation.net/blog/1021 (twitter.com/_/status/559651648511827968)
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@lunamoth 인디웹(IndieWeb)을 아십니까? :: Channy's Blog - http://channy.creation.net/blog/1021 // 좀 살펴봐야겠군요. walled garden 대척점 얘기인지 (twitter.com/_/status/559677477727916032)
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@lunamoth Main Page-ko - IndieWebCamp - http://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page-ko (twitter.com/_/status/559677734515777537)
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@lunamoth 인디웹 시작하기Getting Started-ko - IndieWebCamp - http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started-ko (twitter.com/_/status/559677906658402304)
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@lunamoth 인디웹 시작하기 Getting Started-ko - IndieWebCamp - http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started-ko (twitter.com/_/status/559678006650613760)
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@studioego RT @lunamoth: 인디웹 시작하기 Getting Started-ko - IndieWebCamp - http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started-ko (twitter.com/_/status/559678071444213761)
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@lunamoth POSSE - IndieWebCamp - http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/559678543701889024)
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@lunamoth webmention/README.md at master · converspace/webmention - https://github.com/converspace/webmention/blob/master/README.md // 도메인 기반 멘션 시스템 나왔었군요 (twitter.com/_/status/559679186621575168)
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@websarang RT @channyun: "인디웹(IndieWeb)을 아십니까?" http://channy.creation.net/blog/1021 트위터 및 페이스북 등 소셜네트워크가 창궐(?)하다보니 이제 아예 여기서 주로 서식하는 경우가 많아집니다. 우리 ... http://t.c… (twitter.com/_/status/559679639946141697)
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@lunamoth projects - IndieWebCamp - https://indiewebcamp.com/projects (twitter.com/_/status/559680243972050945)
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bastianallgeier.com edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (+364) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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@bastianallgeier Yay, I’m attending the first German IndieWeb Camp: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany Can’t wait! (twitter.com/_/status/559681482005151744)
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@lunamoth IndieMark - IndieWebCamp - https://indiewebcamp.com/IndieMark // 음 뭔가 오픈아이디도 생각나긴하네요... 이상만으로 끝나진 않길.. (twitter.com/_/status/559682019718729729)
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iandevlin The German IndieWebCamp will be my first.
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@lunamoth Webmention.io - https://webmention.io/ // 댓글알리미도 생각나네요 (twitter.com/_/status/559712343559385089)
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@lunamoth POSSE - IndieWebCamp - https://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE // 원본을 먼저 자신 도메인에 포스팅 후 여타 SNS 으로 신디케이션, 음 블로그/트위터 사용성이 다른 저로서는 힘들듯;; (twitter.com/_/status/559713707081465858)
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@lunamoth PESOS - IndieWebCamp - https://indiewebcamp.com/PESOS // 역으로 서드파티에서 베이스 블로그로 취합하자는 쪽인데, 프로필 서비스 http://lunamoth.com/2208 연장선 같긴합니다만 (twitter.com/_/status/559714302316142592)
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@lunamoth PESETAS - IndieWebCamp - https://indiewebcamp.com/PESETAS // 취합하긴 하는데 또 다른 서드파티 저장소를 쓰는쪽 (twitter.com/_/status/559714765677674499)
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@lunamoth IndieWebCamp - https://indiewebcamp.com/ // 나름 생각할만한 화두거리는 꽤 있군요. 종종 둘러봐야될듯 (twitter.com/_/status/559715085191372800)
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@btconf 41 people registered for the #IndieWebCamp in Germany. Please don’t forget to add yourself to the guest list https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany/Guest_List #btconf (twitter.com/_/status/559717045856907264)
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GWG Greetings from soon to be snowbound New York
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bret GWG: have your space heater ready?
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GWG bret: No
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aaronpk csarven: there's some background here: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2#microformats2_design
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aaronpk oh looks like you got that covered in #microformats :)
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ben_thatmustbeme good morning all
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GWG HI, ben_thatmustbeme
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petermolnar morning
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ben_thatmustbeme how is everyone today?
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petermolnar since I'm UK based, I'll go with "Not too bad, not too bad, how are you?"
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: Battening down the hatches?
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GWG petermolnar: I always forget where you are
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ben_thatmustbeme haha, its just a little snow :P
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Loqi awesome
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petermolnar It kinda makes sense that a norse god like snow Loqi :)
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Loqi is done
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petermolnar s/like/likes/
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Loqi petermolnar meant to say: It kinda makes sense that a norse god likes snow Loqi :)
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ben_thatmustbeme new version of MobilePub is ready https://build.phonegap.com/apps/1261335/builds
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ben_thatmustbeme need to get an iOS key so i can build it for there
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: 1-2 feet estimated
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GWG petermolnar: I was going to ask for your help on something
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petermolnar sure
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GWG You contributed and use Jihaisse's WordPress Syndication plugin, right?
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petermolnar I think I did
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GWG Didn't you write the SNAP function?
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petermolnar yes, that was me
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GWG I spoke to Jihaisse the other day, and I want to try to merge my plugin and the WordPress Syndication plugin into a single plugin.
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GWG If I did so, I might need someone to try it
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petermolnar the truth is that I'm not actively using that plugin at the moment, but I'll be happy to help
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GWG petermolnar: Okay
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GWG The major difference between the two plugins that caused me to write my own was that the Jihaisse plugin didn't allow for manual POSSE entry and stores the entire addition to the content. My version stores the URLs and generates the links on load.
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GWG So, for things like G+, you can add the link into a box.
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GWG So, if I just change the code he wrote to store in the fields I'm using...one plugin.
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GWG And the code you wrote
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petermolnar that is pretty useful
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GWG Why maintain two plugins?
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petermolnar agreed
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GWG If the issue is that I use icons and the other plugin uses a list....I can add a setting.
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petermolnar I don't really understand the issue, could you please describe it a bit deeper?
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csarven aaronpk Yeap, with some detour :)
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GWG petermolnar: The display on mine is different too. But I could make a setting for that.
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petermolnar a setting would probably be nice to modify the display; although it could be a css-change what's actually changed based on the setting
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GWG petermolnar: Exactly.
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GWG As soon as I finish two other things, that will be next.
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GWG I still want to try to fix an issue with the Post Kinds plugin regarding the chooser
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: I can help you with an ioS cert!
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ben_thatmustbeme oh cool, that would be great
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ben_thatmustbeme i haven't looked in to it much yet
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aaronpk it's been a while but I still have an active dev account that I can use
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ben_thatmustbeme i actually moved off the closed icon set so its free for anyone to build in cordova
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ben_thatmustbeme build.phonegap.com literally just needs a key to build it
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ben_thatmustbeme for that matter are there any features that people would like added? I still have it on my todo list of a unified posting page aaronpk
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ben_thatmustbeme thats one of the few things left other than graphical clean up
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aaronpk Sweet I will try this in a bit
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aaronpk Can I make a build without being the owner of the project?
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aaronpk Oh I have to make a project under my account right?
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ben_thatmustbeme correct, you just put in the location of the git repo
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ben_thatmustbeme github*
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aaronpk Last time I built a phoonegap app I feel like this did not exist
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GWG That reminds me of a github question
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GWG What is the criteria for being under the Indieweb organizational account instead of your own?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "criteria for being under the Indieweb organizational account instead of your own" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=criteria+for+being+under+the+Indieweb+organizational+account+instead+of+your+own
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GWG Namely...what should be there/
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aaronpk I think mostly generic parsing libraries and such
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aaronpk Not full apps/projects
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GWG Was wondering about that.
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aaronpk The reason being it's easier for multiple people to jump in and contribute to small libraries
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@unohee 이거 코딩 끝나면 인디웹 시작해야징 http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started-ko (twitter.com/_/status/559781602042331136)
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tantek aaronpk bret dietrich - HWC PDX this wednesday?
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bret Ill follow up on spaces
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tantek need a venue on the wiki
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bret aaronpk: is esri open this wed?
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GWG If I get snowed in till Thursday, I may be online for it
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dietrich tantek: pdx is booked, looks likee
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dietrich design research group
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Loqi dietrich: tantek left you a message on 1/8 at 4:35pm: can you host next week's HWC @MozPDX? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-14-homebrew-website-club maybe bret can help out too.
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bret rgr dietrich
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tantek thanks bret - just announced in this week's Mozilla weekly meeting
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tantek thought I saw a discussion about CSS resets in here in the other day in the logs
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GWG tantek: You did
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GWG I remember it
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tantek is wondering if he should write a updated post on the subject, as it seems to be quite confusing.
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GWG I think there is now a CSS page in the wiki
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gRegor` Yes, I brought up CSS resets. Just curious about recommendtions, pros/cons
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gRegor` Added /CSS, but nothing in particular about resets
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gRegor` I would welcome reading your thoughts on resets, tantek
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GWG How many people here use NoScript?
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sparverius
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GWG Or some variant that disables JS
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kylewm +1 to tantek writing about CSS resets
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@seanbohan #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/559800227843284992)
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GWG I'm just thinking about designing for sites to work without JS.
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aaronpk tantek: bret: esripdx is available wednesday!
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gRegor` What is NoScript?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "NoScript" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=NoScript
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gRegor` ^ GWG :)
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gRegor` What is javascript?
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Loqi JavaScript (JS) is a popular programming language due to its nearly ubiquitous availability in web browsers, and growing web server availability in the form of node.js https://indiewebcamp.com/Javascript
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KevinMarks_ did you originate CSS resets, tantek? http://tantek.com/log/2004/09.html#d06t2354
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@nicolascluz http://mabulledu.net/zzTacUw Petit modification de "content-status.php" du thème Sempress. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/559813332417249280)
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GWG gRegor`: Still didn't get an idea of how many people disable javascript
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gRegor` I know. The wiki could use a page defining it, though.
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aaronpk I just put the indiewebcamp stickers in the stickermule marketplace so anyone can order them!
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aaronpk https://www.stickermule.com/marketplace/3892-indiewebcamp-sticker
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GWG Do you endorse Stickermule?
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aaronpk indeed I do
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GWG I could always use a place to sell my Android Buffet stickers
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aaronpk ha someone else tagged a sticker "indieweb" already https://www.stickermule.com/marketplace/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=indieweb
shiflett, snarfed, Phae, benward______, tommorris, mlncn, JonathanNeal, bret and mattl joined the channel
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club (+11) "add pdx!" (view diff)
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bear aaronpk - did you get the stickermule special email - they are testing some new infra and offered a special to get an increase in orders to test it
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snarfed ahahaha that's one way to load test
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aaronpk bear: the $29 thing?
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bear $29 for 50 stickers if you order 3 day rush
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aaronpk i just ordered some batches of 200 stickers
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aaronpk hmm wonder if there's anything i want only 50 of
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GWG aaronpk: All IWC?
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aaronpk no i already have tons of those from the order before IWC Boston
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snarfed.org edited /2015 (+661) "sponsor section" (view diff)
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GWG What sort then?
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aaronpk one batch was OAuth cat stickers :D
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GWG How about some Indiewebcat stickers?
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aaronpk hehe
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gRegor` !tell KartikPrabhu Coming to HWC this Wednesday?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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bret ok aaronpk, I'll set up a calagator today
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aaronpk bret: already done
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bret sweet ty
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aaronpk haven't posted an indie event yet because my posting interface for events sucks
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/09/27/1/event-interface
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bret lol
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bret me too :(
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aaronpk that may be the next UI I add to Quill
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bret :]
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aaronpk although shoot, it's not that straightforward
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aaronpk i want to have a way for Quill to query my site for locations to use
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bret you can always add that later
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aaronpk i suppose yeah
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bret we can talk about it on WED!
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bret :D
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aaronpk OH YES
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aaronpk GOOD POINT
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bret or you can just get distracted all week and just finish it, either way i'm cool wit it
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aaronpk no not cool. too many other things to do
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bret haha :p
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bret anyone building an ownyourswarm?
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snarfed yeah that way lie dragons
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snarfed (not that anyone at a place like esri needs me to tell them that :P)
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aaronpk hehe
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aaronpk bret: ownyourswarm is a way better name than ownyoursquare
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snarfed hence why i did https://snarfed.org/indie-checkin-flow and https://github.com/snarfed/ownyourcheckin
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aaronpk i am planning on doing that btw, but feel free to beat me to it
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KevinMarks_ my ad hoc ownyourswarm is a calendar I sub to in google
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aaronpk that's more like swarm PESETAS
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KevinMarks_ true
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bret nice snarfed
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snarfed good recent writeup of complexities of something similar to venue auto complete: http://blog.expensify.com/2015/01/23/the-hidden-complexity-of-merchant-auto-completion/
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bret my productivity pipeline is really backed up
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KevinMarks_ hm. I want an incremtning counter-like thing for a URL shortener type thingy, but I'm hacking on appengine and it seems to really hate the idea
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Loqi gives KevinMarks_ an incremtning counter
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aaronpk jeez loqi, coulda fixed the typo first
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Loqi grins profusely
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snarfed KevinMarks_: yup, i dunno about app engine. seems suspicious. :P
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snarfed holler if i can answer any concrete q's
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KevinMarks_ appengine docs are all "no! don't increment keys, you only get 5 qps; built a tree of sharded ones"
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snarfed for use cases with very high traffic writes, yes
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snarfed but do you think you're often going to generate more than 5 short urls per second?
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snarfed my guess is no :P
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snarfed so ignore those articles and do the simple obvious thing
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aaronpk my url shortener was generating more than 5 per second because it was being attacked by spam bots
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KevinMarks_ You know when you've been YAGNI'd
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aaronpk i was up to 10-15/sec before I noticed. sadly it had been doing that for months.
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KevinMarks_ aha, so I cna call it DDOS mitigation? ;)
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snarfed lol
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snarfed if you build in a fair scheduler, maybe
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KevinMarks_ or do it with memcache and really hurt myself
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snarfed no
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snarfed this would be just for you, right?
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aaronpk maybe I should keep all these spam URLs and use them to seed a webmention blacklist
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GWG Wasn't there talk of sharing blacklists?
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aaronpk probably
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KevinMarks_ not necessarily, but probably just for me intially. I'll do ti the obvious way and shard later
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tantek aaronpk - problem with such blacklists is that they can easily contain *temporally* compromised WordPress blogs etc.
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aaronpk yeah, it would have to be more like a greylist
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tantek so unless you have some deeper forensics you can perform, automatically, they might not be of that much value
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tantek kind of like the URLs that Google warns you about having compromised scripts etc.
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tantek which seems to happen to blogs all the time
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GWG aaronpk, tantek: Worth brainstorming about though?
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aaronpk i think i'd rather spend my time thinking about things like vouch
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tantek indeed
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GWG I still don't understand how an unknown can be vouched for
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tantek GWG, perhaps you let unknowns go to your moderation queue
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tantek that's up to you, per person/site preference for you
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aaronpk tantek: as someone who has sent many webmentions manually, and encountered many cases where your comment was stuck in a queue invisibly, do you have any recommendations now for how best to tell someone their webmention was accepted but is in a moderation queue?
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tantek that's a great question
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tantek the 202 response with a status URL is a good step forward
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tantek because then I can poll the status URL as often as I feel like to find out what's up
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tantek but yes - from a UI perspective, it's a bit frustrating
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tantek well, any moderation is - which is why I rarely comment on WordPress blogs these days
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tantek moderation is so broken, and all the auto-spam detection plugins are biased AGAINST good comments with links to support arguments or more info.
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GWG tantek: SO, you are saying you'd comment a lot more on my blog if I fixed that?
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tantek probably yeah.
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tantek most UI is like that
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tantek lack of any visible response = don't bother with it in the future
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tantek more like
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KevinMarks_ we ahd that with Jean's wp blog - though WM's were broken but in queue
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tantek lack of any visible response = oh this site / system / software must be broken
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tantek so move on
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KevinMarks_ in the classic user-present comment model, you cookie the user and show their comment there
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tantek so yeah, moderation, especially the way(s) WordPress does it, is fundamentally broken from a user experience perspective
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GWG tantek: Your participation may be a motivator to promote that issue on my list
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tantek GWG, I kinda felt like the WP community as a whole gave up caring about it
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tantek or felt that moderation "solved" it
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KevinMarks_ possibly with a mod queue status
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tantek so I gave up on WP comments in general
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GWG tantek: I just can't accept all comments because of the spam target.
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GWG But I don't like the moderation options I have
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tantek GWG, snarfed claims that's not a real problem or something
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tantek so which is it?
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KevinMarks_ well, akismet is a shared balcklist model
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tantek either we need better documentation of the spam problem for WP blogs
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tantek OR we need better documentation of *how to* prevent it, solve it
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tantek GWG you and snarfed need to debate this out one and make it a non-problem.
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tantek KevinMarks_: and akismet etc. spam detection is why my comments with citations of good URLs get blocked/rejected
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tantek GWG, here's a real world example (of hypertext) that WordPress rejected
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tantek http://tantek.com/2011/010/b1/owning-your-data
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tantek "WordPress, refused to accept it as a comment: "
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tantek "Hmmm, your comment seems a bit spammy. We're not real big on spam around here. Please go back and try again. "
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tantek search for those error strings in WP Plugins / WordPress - and document which plugin etc it is - because they are fundamentally broken
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GWG tantek: There are a lot of issues. I probably should document them
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tantek one of the reasons to post comments on your own blog: because WP/Plugin comment spam detection sucks (false positives) and will reject well cited comments.
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KevinMarks_ fragmention use case: https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/559629417312690176
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@kevinmarks @hadleybeeman @dracos @digidemocracyuk which illustrates the problem with ids - you have to "view source" to find the buggers (twitter.com/_/status/559629417312690176)
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@kaygon RT @lunamoth: 인디웹 시작하기 Getting Started-ko - IndieWebCamp - http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started-ko (twitter.com/_/status/559853872408043521)
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@TheTweetserve RT @npdoty: Satisfying an #indieweb commitment, a demo "paper" showing generation of hCite markup via pandoc and citeproc: https://t.co/AMB… (twitter.com/_/status/559854212092157952)
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GWG !tell tantek: There is a problem with too many different WordPress comment solutions
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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