#indiewebcamp 2015-02-06

2015-02-06 UTC
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GWG Good evening
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tantek good evening GWG! exciting progress on indie-config today thanks to voxpelli - and kylewm's deployment
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JonathanNeal I sure wish I had a way to communicate this idea in a document: progressive disclosable content
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danlyke kylewm, the HTML side of my status feed at http://www.flutterby.net/status/user/DanLyke has multiple "h-entry"s, one for what would be each RSS entry (ie: http://www.flutterby.net/User:DanLyke_status.rss). https://kylewm.com/services/mf2util only grabs the first one...
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JonathanNeal Like “skip to” links.
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kylewm danlyke: hmm yeah that endpoint will only parse as a feed if it actually has an h-feed. in woodwind, i call mf2util.interpret_feed explicitly so that it will parse all the entries
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tantek JonathanNeal: are you familiar with progressive disclosure as a general UI and content strategy principle?
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JonathanNeal not at all. earlier today, i thought of them as .visuallyhidden
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danlyke kylewm so I should wrap the "h-entry"s in an "h-feed"? (ie: my <div class="content"> ?)
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JonathanNeal I only thought about them as content hidden to the user until revealed by focus or read by screenreader.
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danlyke (BTW, making local comments and WebMention comments peers on my system is still on my radar...)
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tantek let's see if there's a decent reference for progressive disclosure - as that's quite useful for design & content
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tantek (but I repeat myself ;) )
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tantek JonathanNeal: this is a decent start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_disclosure
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kylewm danlyke: not unless you want to. I added a checkbox -- https://kylewm.com/services/mf2util?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flutterby.net%2Fstatus%2Fuser%2FDanLyke&as-feed=true
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aaronpk eventbrite launched rel=me on user profiles today!
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aaronpk http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eventbrite.com%2Fo%2Faaron-parecki-7917823488
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tantek yeah!
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JonathanNeal is still reading the wikipedia entry.
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JonathanNeal Okay.
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danlyke kylewm: I guess the question is really one of the function of the h-feed and how I can best support that. I need to spend some more time digesting the Microformats2 docs.
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JonathanNeal Now the questions I’m asking myself is … “how do I connect the dots between progressive disclosure and .offscreen:not(:focus)” – this is an the effect I use to disclose content when the user focuses over the element.
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aaronpk tantek: sadly I cannot find any link between eventbrite custom URL, canonical URL, and eventbrite user ID
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tantek dang
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aaronpk so once someone logs in, i have no way of knowing if it was the person I expected
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aaronpk my account apparently has a user ID of 1848322318, profile URL of http://www.eventbrite.com/o/aaron-parecki-7917823488 and custom URL of http://aaronpk.eventbrite.com
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tantek and no links between them?
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aaronpk ah it's because user != organizer
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aaronpk my account has 3 organizers, one of which is http://www.eventbrite.com/o/aaron-parecki-7917823488
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JonathanNeal “How do I connect the dots between progressive disclosure and the effect of content being read to screen readers but not necessarily visually” … still thinking about this one.
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aaronpk i don't know what the other two are because they have no name
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aaronpk my understanding of the API is that it's possible that more than on user could have admin privileges of an organizer account
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aaronpk oops nope!
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aaronpk "An Eventbrite user can have multiple Organizers associated with accounts, and individual events are associated with Users and Organizers (optionally). Currently, Organizers can not be ‘shared’ across Users or have multiple User owners."
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aaronpk okay so given a user who logs in, I can check if any of the associated organizers are the one i'm looking for
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aaronpk I can proceed :)
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tantek JonathanNeal: you have to let go of "content being read to screen readers but not necessarily visually" <-- that's you getting sucked back into bad framing
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tantek the "not necessarily visually" part
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: by using progressive enhancement? have usual <a> links with title for the undisclosed content, then is JS is available disclose content with Ajaxing it
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tantek what is progressive enhancement?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "progressive enhancement" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=progressive+enhancement&summary=%28prompted+by+tantek+https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-05/line/1423183493751%29
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tantek what is AJAX?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "AJAX" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=AJAX&summary=%28prompted+by+tantek+https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-05/line/1423183504832%29
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: by using progressive disclosure
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JonathanNeal For instance, when you visit https://github.com/ and press tab.
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JonathanNeal The “skip to main content” link is revealed.
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: right. So i would have a "skip to main content" visible as default. then if JS is active, I hide it and reveal it only on Tab
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JonathanNeal That’s a common, expected interaction to have if you’re navigating a site with your keyboard, and it’s especially useful if that’s your primary way of skipping heading content and diving straight into the page’s main content.
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: oh okay, you wouldn’t need JavaScript to hide it, since it would not rely on JavaScript to be revealed.
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JonathanNeal For most browsers on most OS’s, with JavaScript off, you can expect the tab key to move you between links.
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KartikPrabhu so the trouble you are having is if you hide with CSS using display:none and reveal on :focus then it is also lost to screenreaders
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JonathanNeal @KartikPrabhu the problem I have is that I need to communicate when something is not yet disclosed to the user visually.
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JonathanNeal But it is content and it is ready to be absorbed.
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KartikPrabhu hmm yeah
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JonathanNeal I am having a hard time disconnecting it from the experience, Tantek.
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JonathanNeal I hope the aha moment comes sooner than later. I have a deeper purpose to this. I really want to update reset.css.
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JonathanNeal And as part of that, I want to move some of these really useful helper classes we all use to something semantically more true.
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JonathanNeal https://gist.github.com/jonathantneal/6a3fdc4bb167a28409cf
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JonathanNeal So, aria-hidden is supposed to describe something that is not (or not yet) disclosed to the visitor.
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JonathanNeal And of course now we have a plain old hidden attribute.
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JonathanNeal However, this doesn’t accurately describe something that is not yet disclosed to the user, but is still accessible.
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tantek JonathanNeal: that's because it's too high level a conversation
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tantek without a specific real world example, it's hard to pursue a solution
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JonathanNeal Yes. Thanks twice now for making sense of things.
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tantek JonathanNeal: since you're back here now, go ahead and start your User: page and what you're itching / working on (e.g. like figuring out progressive disclosure content stuff) https://indiewebcamp.com/wikifying#Wikify_yourself
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GWG Reading on the Indieconfig thing.
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GWG Still can't figure out a reply endpoint for WordPress
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JonathanNeal tantek: i never left, i was just less active since october =)
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tantek in that case, definitely get started on that user page ;)
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tantek nm I see it's already well beyond getting started! https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Jonathantneal.com
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GWG I want to accomplish some things tonight
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GWG I'm making progress on my bug list
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KevinMarks yay
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Loqi yay!
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KevinMarks I'm at the crunchies and wondering why
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GWG KevinMarks: Free food?
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snarfed KevinMarks: agreed
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Loqi snarfed: gRegor` left you a message 8 hours, 24 minutes ago: I've had two Bridgy Twitter Publish webmentions return 400 today. Error "Couldn't find link to https://www.brid.gy/publish/twitter" https://www.brid.gy/log?start_time=1423167476&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyUAsSDVB1Ymxpc2hlZFBhZ2UiKWh0dHA6Ly9ncmVnb3Jsb3ZlLmNvbS9ub3Rlcy8yMDE1LzAyLzA1LzQvDAsSB1B1Ymxpc2gYgICAgICAgAoM
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snarfed i'm watching the dice awards instead. much more fun
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snarfed !tell gRegor` sorry for the bridgy publish surprise, and thanks for the docs nudge. added to my todo list
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG I just filed a request for Post Kinds to be reviewed for the Wordpress.org repository
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prtksxna GWG: Awesome! Link?
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GWG prtksxna: I applied
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GWG prtksxna: They have 109 plugins in their queue for approval
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GWG prtksxna: I did make a bunch of improvements
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GWG I wonder what they'll say
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prtksxna GWG: I feel the need for 3 distinct types of meta data in Wordpress. 1) Post Kind - reply, repost etc. 2) Post Type - post, bookmark, image etc, and 3) Geolocation which they already have
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prtksxna GWG: I am not familiar with their architecture comm. Not sure how changes like these get evaluated.
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GWG prtksxna: So you are suggesting that I should have used custom post types in WordPress in addition to custom taxonomies?
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aaronpk anything relevant happening at the crunchies?
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prtksxna GWG: I don't think you can extend custom post types
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prtksxna GWG: And from what I understand they aren't to excited about the feature anymore
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GWG prtksxna: No one seems excited about post formats either, alas
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prtksxna Sorry, I mean post formats.
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prtksxna I misunderstood you.
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prtksxna Sorry. I don't think these should be custom post types, they should all be "posts" and hopefully have formats (which as you said is not being pursued)
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GWG prtksxna: Well, I consider post kinds to be a replacement for post formats. I don't think they both need to be used.
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prtksxna post kinds? post types?
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GWG prtksxna: I think we're having terminology confusion
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prtksxna Me too. Link to the codex?
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GWG prtksxna: Post Formats and Custom Post Types are WordPress elements
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GWG prtksxna: Post Kinds is the plugin I created
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prtksxna Post Formats <- Quote, chat etc. and Post Types <- Pages, attachments etc.
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prtksxna And there are no "Custom" post formats (which sucks)
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GWG prtksxna: That's why I had to create a new taxonomy that could be customized.
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prtksxna Right, but your plugin - Post Kind - handles stuff like reply and repost, right?
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GWG prtksxna: Yes, but it also has an option for article, note, and photo...
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prtksxna I think that should be distinct from a plugin that takes care of formats like check-ins. This would allow me to reply to your blog post by checking into the restaurant you were praising (for example)
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prtksxna GWG: ^
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GWG prtksxna: That would be a multi-kind option
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prtksxna GWG: Oh. I just think of them as distinct plugins and boxes in the UI.
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prtksxna GWG: Clarity and separation of concerns (just my personal opinion)
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GWG prtksxna: I don't think that checking in is a form of reply.
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GWG prtksxna: But to each their own
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GWG prtksxna: I have some ideas for RSVP and Check-In, which as of now, I'm not really supporting.
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prtksxna GWG: Right, I know some people would disagree, but I like the idea :)
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snarfed.org edited /events/2015-02-11-homebrew-website-club (+14) "rsvp" (view diff)
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KevinMarks the Crunchies were not relevant
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KevinMarks but before I did have a nice chat with Jason Shellen who is making an iOS blogging app about including indieweb features
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pfefferle good morning indieweb
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KevinMarks good morning pfefferle
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KevinMarks so, could I include your magic reply stuff on my static site at kevinmarks.com, but point to known.kevinmarks.com that has a micropub endpoint?
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pfefferle magig reply stuff?
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pfefferle s/magig/magic
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Loqi pfefferle meant to say: magic reply stuff?
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snarfed !tell KartikPrabhu hey, sorry for the bridgy publish failures! shift-refresh your user page, should fix it
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: aah you saw. not to worry I did a direct Twitter post: https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/563639620714250240
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: snarfed left you a message 5 minutes ago: hey, sorry for the bridgy publish failures! shift-refresh your user page, should fix it
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@kartik_prabhu A painting in water colours: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/cest-la-vie (twitter.com/_/status/563639620714250240)
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KartikPrabhu !tell snarfed: not to worry I did a direct Twitter post: https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/563639620714250240
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KartikPrabhu !tell snarfed: not to worry I did a direct Twitter post: https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/563639620714250240
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG Good morning, all
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pfefferle good morning GWG
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GWG pfefferle: I submitted Post Kinds for review in the Wordpress.org repository after a night of fixing the things that still bothered me.
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pfefferle GWG cool!
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pfefferle GWG be sure to update the indieweb plugin if they will accept it
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pfefferle GWG would like to release an update this weekend
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GWG pfefferle: You want me to deploy the update? Will do. Good way to see how its done
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GWG They have 117 plugins on their review queue.
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pfefferle no, but to update the indieweb plugin to use the wordpress.org version instead of the github version of the post-kinds plugin
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pfefferle ah ok
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pfefferle hmmm
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GWG pfefferle: If it gets approved, I'll do that. It could be up to a week before they get back to me
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GWG While I am waiting, I have more things to put in.
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GWG Like hiding meta field entries when not needed.
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achor.net edited /events/2015-02-07-homebrew-website-club-ko (+27) "/* 모임 신청 */" (view diff)
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@petermolnar @monkbent in response to first part of http://stratechery.com/2015/bloggings-bright-future/ I believe fragmenting ourselves to silos is not good https://petermolnar.eu/journal/indieweb-decentralize-web-centralizing-ourselves/ (twitter.com/_/status/563691505798615040)
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rhiaro Hey, does anyone know anything about Ethereum? (ethereum.org) The indiewebcamp wiki about it seems outdated
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almereyda What do you need to know?
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rhiaro Hi almereyda! I'm not sure really, just had an email from them asking if they can be at indiewebcamp in Edinburgh in July. I haven't come across them before
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rhiaro My immediate reaction is that they should update the indiewebcamp wiki for themselves as a start
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GWG rhiaro: There was someone in here the other day mentioning it
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rhiaro checks logs
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GWG I remember suggesting they contact the organizer if they were interested in more information about the event.
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rhiaro aha okay
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rhiaro I can only find stuff in the logs from April containing "ethereum"
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almereyda Well, it's this blockchain based micro-contract platform that i.e. Primavera and many others are putting a lot of hope in.
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almereyda You may want to invite them, indeed.
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rhiaro Definitely interesting to talk to them for sure. A lot of the crypto stuff is beyond me, and I suspect out of scope for core indieweb goals, but still relevant
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GWG rhiaro: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-03#t1422967455102
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almereyda Well, we still have to find out how we bridge Web and Blockchain world, for example. That'd be my starter.
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rhiaro Thanks GWG, not sure why I couldn't find that
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GWG Not indexed yet maybe
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GWG rhiaro: You are coming to Cambridge, right?
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rhiaro GWG: I am indeed
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GWG I'm trying to get up for it. Looking like I'll be able to arrange it
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bret rhiaro: im still not even sure how ethereum is different than bitcoin
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rhiaro bret: looks like it's for things other than (as well as) purchases?
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bret isn't that just a state of mind though? ;)
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bret (kidding, clearly there are differences)
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rhiaro I don't know much about any of this
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rhiaro I guess having them at IWC is a good way to learn more
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rhiaro I suggested they update the IWC wiki about ethereum, too
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ben_thatmustbeme so i guess its basically bitcoin with text instead of just amounts of money?
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ben_thatmustbeme thats what i get from a very brief review
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GWG Is there anything going on Wednesday night before IWC Cambridge
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@michielbdejong Access to personal internet servers for the other 99% of internet users #IndieWeb https://michielbdejong.com/2015/access-to-personal-internet-servers-for-the-other-99-of (twitter.com/_/status/563744274190454784)
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GWG Pfefferle, by the way, after the next time you update Semantic Linkbacks, I am going to switch to branching each individual feature. I have been reading advice on working with others
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pfefferle GWG :)
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ben_thatmustbeme GWG, i don't know, maybe the organizer will know.... oh wait... DOH
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@ODNTTheSeries FINAL Season! Help us out! https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/old-dogs-new-tricks-4th-final-season #indie #indieweb #LGBT Decide how @ODNTTheSeries ends! #webseries http://www.odnt.tv (twitter.com/_/status/563747503754207232)
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@LeonAcord RT @ODNTTheSeries: FINAL Season! Help us out! https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/old-dogs-new-tricks-4th-final-season #indie #indieweb #LGBT Decide how @ODNTTheSeries ends! #webseries htt… (twitter.com/_/status/563747595005067264)
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@ODNTTheSeries FINAL Season! Help us out! https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/old-dogs-new-tricks-4th-final-season #indie #indieweb #LGBT Decide how @ODNTTheSeries ends!... https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/old-dogs-new-tricks-4th-final-season (twitter.com/_/status/563747845669650432)
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@LeonAcord FINAL Season! Help us out! https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/old-dogs-new-tricks-4th-final-season #indie #indieweb #LGBT Decide how @ODNTTheSeries ends!... https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/old-dogs-new-tricks-4th-final-season (twitter.com/_/status/563748150599761920)
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@ODNTTheSeries RT @LeonAcord: FINAL Season! Help us out! https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/old-dogs-new-tricks-4th-final-season #indie #indieweb #LGBT Decide how @ODNTTheSeries ends!... http://t.co/sdIt… (twitter.com/_/status/563748404464193537)
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tantek once was reasonable but retweeting the same thing within minutes, I think that borders on spam. shall we ban?
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tantek wow I findmyiphone/ipod has so many scripts!
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tantek like one per app or something
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tantek GWG, likely there will be *something* going on Wednesday night before, as that's the second day of the W3C Social Web WG f2f, and anyone staying for both WG and IWC will be around (myself included)
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tantek what is IWC Cambridge?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/IWC_Cambridge
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tantek editing accordingly...
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aaronpk since when does quora send pingbacks!
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tantek wait what
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aaronpk i got a pingback from them from a comment someone left that linked to a post!
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aaronpk with a fragment ID for the comment and everything!
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/webmention/kZ6JTFV0
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tantek wow - now we just have to get them to add h-entry markup for the question and the comments!
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tantek what is Quora?
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Loqi Quora is a question and answer silo https://indiewebcamp.com/Quora
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tantek ^^^ aaronpk definitely add this evidence there! (perhaps "Pingback" in a "Features" section?)
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gRegor` And not lock up their content behind a login. Or is Quora public now?
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Loqi gRegor`: snarfed left you a message 12 hours, 53 minutes ago: sorry for the bridgy publish surprise, and thanks for the docs nudge. added to my todo list
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aaronpk tantek: should I assume they are sending pingbacks for all links? or write it as I experienced it this one time
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tantek.com edited /2015/Cambridge (+684) "add explicit week of section with subsections for each day, to start scheduling events and show related events all as a week" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - "Appears to support sending pingbacks as of 2015-02-06 [URL]"
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tantek though your webmention status URL only lasts for 2 days right?
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tantek maybe post a note/article about it explicitly and quote your entire webmention status?
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aaronpk i was going to screenshot the webmention status url
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tantek that works too
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tantek though you know what KevinMarks would say about using images of text ;)
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:20150206-quora-pingback-status.png]]""
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gRegor` Interesting display of comment number bubbles beside paragraphs here. Clicking shows the comment under the paragraph. Similar to Medium, but a bit easier to read, IMO. http://kotaku.com/gamergates-latest-conspiracy-theory-doesnt-hold-up-1684012308
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aaronparecki.com edited /File:20150206-quora-pingback-status.png (+235) "add url of quora post" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Quora (+336) "add note about quora sending pingbacks" (view diff)
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snarfed woo, http://stackoverflow.com/tags/indieweb/info
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Loqi snarfed: KartikPrabhu left you a message 6 hours, 2 minutes ago: not to worry I did a direct Twitter post: https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/563639620714250240
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Loqi snarfed: KartikPrabhu left you a message 6 hours, 2 minutes ago: not to worry I did a direct Twitter post: https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/563639620714250240
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tommorris aaronpk and others who are interested: https://tommorris.org/posts/9208 - me grumbling about issues with the Eye-Fi Pro X2.
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GWG tantek: I think I can get away that afternoon and come up.
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tantek GWG did you see the schedule update?
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GWG There was a schedule update?
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GWG The 18:30?
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GWG Now I did
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tommorris also, pingback from Quora. niiice.
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GWG By the way, saw this and thought of IWC... https://make.wordpress.org/core/2015/02/05/4-2-community-initiative-nux-working-group/
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GWG I'm wondering if NUX is something that belongs in the wiki
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gRegor` aaronpk: Some of those 'other mentions' on that article are pretty messy. Are those all pingbacks showing full content for some reason?
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aaronpk yeah, something is wrong with the comments-presentation library
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aaronpk i think i missed one of the steps
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gRegor` Oh, hm. Looks like the mf on one of the referencing blogs is off. All the content goes in 'name' http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fraymondhlee.wordpress.com%2F2014%2F12%2F21%2Fimplementing-oauth2-with-spring-security%2F
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tantek what is NUX?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "NUX" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=NUX&summary=%28prompted+by+tantek+https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-06/line/1423246419512%29
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aaronpk gRegor`: yeah that's the part of the algorithm i missed :)
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation##if+the+p-name+is+too+long
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gRegor` I need to revisit /comments-presentation. I don't think I even fall back on p-name currently.
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aaronpk i think once i do that it'll work great
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gRegor` Hasn't caused a problem for me yet, but for completeness.
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aaronpk luckily it's all in the php comments library so i don't have to re-implement it everywhere
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gRegor` Nice
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aaronpk you probably don't proxy pingbacks to webmentions then ;)
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gRegor` I do, just haven't received pingbacks yet I guess. Or I didn't implement it right :)
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tantek aaronpk - that excessively long p-name is likely due to the out-of-date impying properties for classic microformats
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tantek which we resolved at the microformats meetup we wouldn't do
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tantek GWG - https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge#Week_of
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aaronpk ohhhh right
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aaronpk that will also help
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aaronpk but I still should be truncating name even if so
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tantek http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#implied_properties_on_backcompat_parsing_unlikely_to_be_intended
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gRegor` Hmm. I thought I had webmention.io forwarding pingbacks, but it's missing from my <head> currently.
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tantek aaronpk how many people are signed up for the weekly digest?
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tantek and do people think it's something we should promote more? like in the sidebar?
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david.shanske.com created /NUX (+425) "(prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-06/line/1423246419512)" (view diff)
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GWG What is NUX?
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Loqi NUX is short for New User Experience and is the process of designing with a focus on new users not necessarily familiar usage https://indiewebcamp.com/NUX
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tantek GWG isn't that WordPress specific though?
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david.shanske.com edited /NUX (+5) (view diff)
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tantek NUX is not a general term AFAIK
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GWG tantek: I can cite a few examples
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GWG https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fengineering.pinterest.com%2Fpost%2F81721068266%2Frebuilding-nux-with-the-experience-framework&ei=fwjVVNWSB8eZNpi5gfgH&usg=AFQjCNH7StgT5eHrxAyOrIvevup22LQZcw&sig2=g-EmC9-Lm69-KzTv0nsSIw
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GWG http://engineering.pinterest.com/post/81721068266/rebuilding-nux-with-the-experience-framework
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tantek BTW - pro tip: avoid naming things "new something" because everything new becomes old eventually. Unless you really can't think of a name, or expect the change to happen on a long enough time scale (centuries) that it doesn't matter.
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GWG Sorry about that. Got the search box.
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tantek ohhhhh it's (new user) experience, not new (user experience)
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tantek and here I thought that was called "onboarding" :P
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tantek what is onboarding
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Loqi Onboarding refers to the first experience a user has when installing, configuring, and first logging into an application https://indiewebcamp.com/onboarding
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tantek boom
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tantek is NUX just an alias for onboarding?
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GWG Onboarding refers to the experience
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tantek so does NUX
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GWG NUX would be planning onboarding, wouldn't it?
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GWG It is planning with that in mind.
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tantek what? no, doesn' the X = experience?
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tantek nowhere does anyone say "planning" about NUX
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tommorris.org created /OpenStreetMap (+1864) "new page (prompted by tantek)" (view diff)
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GWG UX is using short for User Experience and is usually referring to a design focus
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tantek if it's "what is the experience that a new user has?" then that's actual *usage* not planning thereof
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GWG So, therefore, wouldn't NUX also be a design focus?
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GWG That was how I was reading it
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tantek GWG, it's ambiguous
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tantek NUX is a bad term
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tommorris just attempted to type “onboarding” and instead typed “onbearding”.
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tantek because it could mean a brand new 2015 user experience
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tantek OR it could mean, what does a "new user" experience
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tantek which are two totally different things
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GWG tantek: Then I have an idea.
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gRegor` I think I prefer the term onboarding, too
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david.shanske.com edited /NUX (-406) "Redirected page to [[onboarding]]" (view diff)
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aaronpk how have i never heard "NUX"before
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tantek because it's a crappy term for something that already has a name
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aaronpk hooray for ambiguous hyphenation
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aaronpk new-user experience vs new user experience
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sparverius it's like the NXE
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gRegor` So I'm really surprised the aforementioned Quora article is available without being signed in. Anyone know if Quora changed that recently, or is it like "X free views"?
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sparverius New Xbox Experience
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aaronpk gRegor`: maybe because you came there with an http referer?
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tantek gRegor`: just turn off JS >:D you know, like with NoScript
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GWG I wasn't suggesting we start a group. I just thought it was interesting that WordPress was focusing on designing for new users.
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tommorris onboarding stinks as a word. there’s already a good term for getting on board: embarking.
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GWG And that is definitely an issue for newcomers to this community.
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tantek tommorris: I think onboarding is a good *separate* term for the context of "onto a site", as opposed to "onto a vehicle"
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GWG So, how do we onboard people to IndieWebCamp?
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GWG I keep going back to how we make it easier for newcomers.
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tantek GWG what is getting started?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started
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GWG tantek: You beat me to the punch there
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tantek hmm - needs dfn
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tommorris tantek: it makes my Valley bullshitometer spike, I’m afraid. https://twitter.com/tommorris/status/563769855162474496 :-)
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@tommorris Meet the word 'embarking': getting on board a ship. You now never have to say 'onboarding' again, much to my relief. (twitter.com/_/status/563769855162474496)
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david.shanske.com edited /projects (-9) "/* WordPress */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Getting_Started (+209) "dfn" (view diff)
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gRegor` aaronpk: I copy/pasted the link actually.
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aaronpk huh
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gRegor` Yeah, strange. Clicking to any other question in the sidebar will prompt me to log in
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tantek.com edited /Getting_Started (+21) "linky home page" (view diff)
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GWG Either way, I keep saying I want to figure out how to make the Getting Started stuff better
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david.shanske.com edited /projects (+19) "/* WordPress */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /onboarding (+396) "onboarding to indieweb, indiewebcamp; see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Events (+0) "move 01-28 to past" (view diff)
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tantek could a brave soul add https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-02-07-homebrew-website-club-ko to https://indiewebcamp.com/events ?
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ben_thatmustbeme so thinking about sponsors in the area for IWC Cambridge, Google campus is close by, does anyone know if we have a contact for the previous sponsorship they did?
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gRegor` I will, tantek
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: are you tracking a list of current sponsors somewhere?
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ben_thatmustbeme i don't have a list currently
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ben_thatmustbeme i had been trying to find another co-organizer first
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ben_thatmustbeme but no one is stepping up
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tantek your host is another
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tantek and I'm doing what I can as a secondary organizer too with the wiki page(s), letting you take the lead ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme but in the footer of the wiki lists sponsors for previous events, and lists google
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ben_thatmustbeme thanks, i just wish there were notes on everything that has needed to be done for one in the past
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tantek typically past IWC events have an organizer section / page also
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tantek where we've kept such notes
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: e.g. https://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge#Organizers
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ben_thatmustbeme there was a page for in on IWCCambridge 2014, but it was never used
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tantek and https://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge#Help_Out
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tantek thus step 1, compare IWCC 2014 and 2015 pages, and copy missing stuff over to 2015
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tantek GWG, it sounds like you're fairly certain you're coming to IWCC - add yourself! https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge/Guest_List
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tantek you too aaronpk! now that you have flights: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge/Guest_List
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aaronpk i am there as remote!
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tantek oh are you gone the first day?
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aaronpk my flight leaves boston at 8am
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: see if you can reach out all previous attendees too https://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Guest_List
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aaronpk i will be remote on the plane, and then at the seattle airport the first day
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tantek ah ok
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tantek hmm - brennan didn't make it AFAIK
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aaronpk and then remote hopefully with barnaby the second day!
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tantek hey rascul - you coming to IndieWebCamp Cambridge march 19-20?
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gregorlove.com edited /Events (+478) "/* Upcoming */ Seoul, Korea meetup (English)" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (-227) "we missed you bnvk!" (view diff)
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rascul tantek i don't know if i can make it up this time
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tantek rascul, bummer. maybe see if you sister wants to participate?
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tantek s/you /your
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Loqi tantek meant to say: rascul, bummer. maybe see if yoursister wants to participate?
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rascul i'll ask her
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gregorlove.com edited /Events (+994) "/* Upcoming */ 2/11 HWC" (view diff)
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tantek !tell kylewm if you post an indie event + FB POSSE copy, for the upcoming HWC SF, I'll invite a bunch of folks to it
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm will do
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Loqi kylewm: tantek left you a message 34 seconds ago: if you post an indie event + FB POSSE copy, for the upcoming HWC SF, I'll invite a bunch of folks to it
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: one of the biggest challenges to an IWC organizer is getting the word out - which is still done the tried and true classical way - direct contact with previous participants, and people you think may be interested
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tantek definitely requires some messaging legwork
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ben_thatmustbeme indeed
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm jumping in on that starting today
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tantek great - that's a good plan to go a month out like that to give people a better chance of planning travel etc.
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tantek aaronpk - could you post an indie event for IWC Cambridge and a FB POSSE copy, making ben_thatmustbeme, myself, sandro co-organizers of the FB event?
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aaronpk sure
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@dissolve333 @willowbl00 I don't know that I ever saw the results from your video on what is the indieweb. Did you ever finish… (https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2015/2/6/3/) (twitter.com/_/status/563779189619183617)
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aaronpk hm i'm not facebook friends with sandro
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aaronpk i will fix that
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: aww you buried the lede https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bury_the_lede#Types
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ben_thatmustbeme i thought i could fit it all in, i failed
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tantek wait - your posting system doesn't preview what will get POSSEd?
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ben_thatmustbeme no, it just uses bridgy after the fact, i need to update it to at least show me a count
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ben_thatmustbeme https://ben.thatmustbe.me/new
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tantek what's your backend written in?
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tantek if you want you can use the cassis.js functions in the front end to do tweet length estimation
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tantek and show a counter (chars left) just like Twitter does
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mattl.us edited /2015/Cambridge/Guest_List (+268) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme its all php on the backend
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tantek you can do it both places with cassis then ;)
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/437461433068146#214611 was invited to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge
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aaronpk oh nice
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tantek the key functions are tw_text_proxy() which gives you an actual-tweet-length equivalent string for a post
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Loqi [bridgy] Aaron Parecki RSVPed yes to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge (https://www.facebook.com/437461433068146#11500459)
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tantek and then note_length_check() which lets you know how well a tweet "fits"
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tantek the simple "just call one function" is tw_length_check()
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/437461433068146#14305603 was invited to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge
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tantek https://github.com/tantek/cassis/blob/master/cassis.js#L1430
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mattl tantek: 4 days of social web and indiecamp
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tantek mattl - yes
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mattl That's a lot of me. Good luck to you ;)
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mattl It'll be nice to see evanpro
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tantek mattl - will be great to see you again
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tantek mattl - add yourself! https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge/Guest_List
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mattl tantek: drinks in SF tonight if you're around btw.
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tantek unfortunately not!
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mattl Darn.
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Loqi [mention] https://kylewm.com/2015/02/homebrew-website-club-2015-february-11 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-02-11-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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@u203d RT @kevinmarks: Who cares about sort order? #FiveWordsToRuinADate #iso8601 #indieweb http://xkcd.com/1179/ (twitter.com/_/status/563785943229140992)
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cweiske aaronpk, how's the federated indieauth login coming along?
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aaronpk :(
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aaronpk i have to decide if i can shoot for having that done by the f2f meeting as well as having a swat0 demo
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millette hmm, I am tempted to throw together an event for next Wednesday in Montreal, short notice... but I had a few people in mind already.
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millette should I go for it?
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aaronpk millette: yes! especially if you think you'd get even 1 or 2 people to show up!
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millette renoirb, would you be interested in having a Montreal event https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-02-11-homebrew-website-club ?
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millette aaronpk, can I just add the city to the wiki page for now? I have to finish a bit of unrelated work
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millette but would complete the invitation later
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aaronpk yeah! just add a section like the others
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kylewm.com edited /events/2015-02-11-homebrew-website-club (+78) "/* URLs */ add indieevent and posse copy" (view diff)
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robin.millette.info edited /events/2015-02-11-homebrew-website-club (+376) "/* Where: Montréal */" (view diff)
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millette also linked from https://github.com/redecentralize/swarm/wiki/Montreal,-Canada
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tantek aaronpk - I'd say the SWAT0 capabilities in micropub are more essential for the Social Web WG f2f
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tantek funny thing is, it's been repeatedly said that debating (federated) identity systems is out-of-scope for the Social Web WG
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tantek so I'd say postpone work on that til after Social Web / IndieWebCamp Cambridge
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tantek we know that federated indieauth *can* work, and that's all you need for any questions that might come up at the Social Web WG
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aaronpk also the demo i will be doing doesn't use indieauth.com for its login, so it actually is doing federated indieauth properly
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aaronpk like if you go log in to quill.p3k.io it'll use the auth server you point to. doesn't have to be indieauth.com
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tantek great!
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renoirb why not
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, you have another auth client?
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ben_thatmustbeme err, auth service i mean
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aaronpk not service, just a library
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cweiske my indieauth openid bridge can be used
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aaronpk https://github.com/indieweb/indieauth-client-php
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cweiske <link rel="authorization_endpoint" href="http://indieauth.id.cweiske.de/" />
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ben_thatmustbeme ah, i was going to say, if you need a second site to test, my site, mp-client, and micropub app, all assume that you might not be using indieauth.com
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millette renoirb, I just sent a short email invitation to a few people, let me know if you didn't receive it.
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renoirb ok thx
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renoirb thx millette !
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david.shanske.com edited /2015/Cambridge/Guest_List (+321) (view diff)
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GWG There we are
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GWG Been meaning to do that
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david.shanske.com edited /IRC_People (+96) (view diff)
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GWG That too
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, wonder if there would be a benefit to contacting any smaller social networking companies in the area
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tantek welcome renoirb! add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC_People :)
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm sure there are some
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GWG I forget who kept asking me why I kept forgetting to do that
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GWG It was probably tantek. It usually it
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GWG is.
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ben_thatmustbeme GWG, thats a lot of forgetting
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GWG No one is perfect
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@dissolve333 The next IndieWebCamp is fast approaching. If anyone is interested, head over the https://t.co/wYaHjxNx7q(btmb.me s/7D) (twitter.com/_/status/563798648228564993)
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tantek what happened there?!? the t.co URL collided with the btmb permashortcitation
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ben_thatmustbeme weird
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tantek someone's code forgot a trailing space before the permashortcitation?
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ben_thatmustbeme there are 2 <br> tags on my site
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ben_thatmustbeme that should and newlines in the html
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tantek nested tags don't count in any p-* properties
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ben_thatmustbeme that should translate to at least one space
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ben_thatmustbeme huh
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tantek that was POSSEd with Bridgy Publish right¿
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tantek maybe Bridgy Publish issue?
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ben_thatmustbeme it was
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ben_thatmustbeme perhaps it just replaces "\n" with ""
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ben_thatmustbeme leading to it cramming them together when the <br> tags are removed
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ben_thatmustbeme and "\t" would have to be dropped too
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ben_thatmustbeme https://www.brid.gy/log?start_time=1423255047&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyUQsSDVB1Ymxpc2hlZFBhZ2UiKmh0dHBzOi8vYmVuLnRoYXRtdXN0YmUubWUvbm90ZS8yMDE1LzIvNi85LwwLEgdQdWJsaXNoGICAgICAgIAKDA
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@walawalawaka I must say, @aral is quite a passionated speaker: https://ind.ie/the-camera-panopticon/?utm_content=bufferfb85f&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #privacy #indieweb #socialmedia (twitter.com/_/status/563803504872271872)
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@brandcare_es walawalawaka: I must say, aral is quite a passionated speaker: https://ind.ie/the-camera-panopticon/?utm_content=bufferfb85f&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #privacy #indieweb #socialmedia (twitter.com/_/status/563803797072646145)
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@JockelLohkamp RT @elfpavlik: experimental #WebID support for #IndieAuth by @fkooman https://github.com/fkooman/php-relmeauth-service/blob/master/docs/ClientCertificateAuthentication.md @bblfish @aaronpk #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/563805430833754112)
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KevinMarks I did the tweet length thing in noterlive.com (start typing and see how the button changes colour)
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ben_thatmustbeme i need to add something like that to MobilePub
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KevinMarks it's tantek's cassis code
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, since its JS that should be super easy
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KevinMarks Gillmor Gang time
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KevinMarks I wonder if we can pick up the XML sucks conversation from last time
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@mimilovesu RT @GATaylor3: Might you seek a tale of witches which provokes fanned whisker twitches? Return To Brude #MG #BYNR #SPShow #IndieAuth http:/… (twitter.com/_/status/563810076159254528)
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snarfed ben_thatmustbeme: re bridgy publish and tweet char counting, you've seen the interactive publish form on your user page, right?
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snarfed it lets you preview before actually tweeting
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snarfed re the newline formatting, looks like it's because there's no whitespace between the wiki link and the <br>s
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snarfed arguably a bug in our link detector
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ben_thatmustbeme snarfed, there no "Space" character, there are non-space whitespace characters though
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snarfed ben_thatmustbeme: oh interesting
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ben_thatmustbeme actually, no, you are correct
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snarfed huh. ok. we'll try to handle that, but just a heads up, exotic chars like that will often get you unexpected behavior from other consumers too
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snarfed (but you probably already knew that)
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snarfed oh ok
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ben_thatmustbeme weird, i thought there were newlines and tabs in there when i looked earlier
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ben_thatmustbeme though i did just push a new set of templates
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snarfed ben_thatmustbeme: filed, https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/343#issuecomment-73317037
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ben_thatmustbeme it can be fixed on my end too by just inserting a space in there
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snarfed ool
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ben_thatmustbeme i'll take a look tonight
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ben_thatmustbeme off to the train
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kodumulo this is pretty cool: https://github.com/fkooman/php-relmeauth-service/blob/master/docs/ClientCertificateAuthentication.md
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kodumulo ive been a fan of webid for awhile
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kodumulo managing browser certs kinda sucks though
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mlncn.withknown.com edited /2015/Cambridge/Guest_List (+399) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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@SelfPubShowcase RT @GATaylor3: Might you seek a tale of witches which provokes fanned whisker twitches? Return To Brude #MG #BYNR #SPShow #IndieAuth http:/… (twitter.com/_/status/563843635629002752)
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/437461433068146#10100467866902778 was invited to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge