#indiewebcamp 2015-02-11

2015-02-11 UTC
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pdurbin
poor Google Wave
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gRegor`
Haha
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gRegor`
In-person is the best way to have those conversations, of course. meetups, *camps, etc
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acegiak
I feel like Google Wave's failure was the turning point for google's "Don't be evil" ethos
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Loqi
acegiak: ben_thatmust left you a message 7 hours, 29 minutes ago: I just fixed the serious bug logging in and rebuilt MobilePub. Apparently its possible to have cordova apps to handle intents but there are bugs specifically with images, also there is a problem with it being a 3rd party plugin so phonegap-build won't work :( I may move back to just building it on my home machine then
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gRegor`
And hey, IRC works pretty well :)
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Loqi
acegiak: ben_thatmust left you a message 7 hours, 27 minutes ago: cordova dev is quite simple though, i'm sure you could make it do exactly what you want in minimal time.
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acegiak
like they went "well being outright good isn't working"
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Loqi
IRC has 6 karma
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gRegor`
Interesting. What was particularly evil about Wave, acegiak?
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acegiak
no, I think wave was really good
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gRegor`
What is Google Wave?
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acegiak
and it's failure was what made them go down the facebook closed silo route with g+
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gRegor`
Aha, I see.
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gRegor`
It was Wave, then Buzz, then g+ right?
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acegiak
though wave and buzz were pretty much the same time
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gregorlove.com
created /Google_Wave (+31) "Redirected page to [[Google#Dead Silos]]"
(view diff)
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acegiak
but google wave was "a modern reinvention of email" with live convos, multiuser editing, total federation
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acegiak
a lot of that tech got moved into things like google docs
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pdurbin
"the death of email" TM
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gRegor`
Yep. I remember it being pretty cool, though I never picked up using it a lot beyond toying with it with friends
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acegiak
but when I did my presentation on it in uni I was so fuckin hyped about it
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gRegor`
XMPP integration with it was cool
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acegiak
I used it to organise a couple of uni group projects and it worked well
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gRegor`
Back when Goog cared about XMPP
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acegiak
but they decided to drop it for their new closed ecosystem approach
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acegiak
I used to want to work for google because they were inspiring. now I'd take a job at google because they're scary and I don't want to be in their way
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gRegor`
Heh
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acegiak
however, in good news, I got my posse working with xmlrpc posts
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snarfed
benwerd_: maybe? what symptom are you seeing?
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benwerd_
snarfed: We've suddenly stopped processing verbs correctly. No changes from our end, so I'm poking at it a little. It looks like u-like-of (etc) aren't being discovered.
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snarfed
acegiak: it's subjective, but that's not quite how wave and g+ evolved. (i worked there during them and know the histories)
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snarfed
they were pretty independent. no one internally viewed wave as social
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snarfed
also little to none of it went into docs
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snarfed
arguably producs like https://quip.com/ are more the spiritual successors to wave
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acegiak
snarfed: ok, fair enough. I'm just saying what it looked like for a wide eyed uni student
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snarfed
acegiak: sure! happy to clarify.
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snarfed
benwerd_: hmm. let me look at what got pushed today
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acegiak
snarfed: are you storing your mf2 data in your post content or in metadata like GWG and I?
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snarfed
acegiak: uh. on my site? i use the semantic-linkbacks plugin
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snarfed
so whatever it does
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acegiak
ok cool
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acegiak
was just curious
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snarfed
on an unrelated note, you may be interested in https://github.com/snarfed/wordpress-micropub when it's ready
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acegiak
I certainly might be!
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acegiak
or rather am!
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benwerd_
the it's us somehow :) will continue to dig
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benwerd_
thanks!
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snarfed
they have appropriate u-like-of and u-repost-of. maybe known now expects link text? those links don't have any
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GWG
I have returned
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acegiak
snarfed: at least for the moment with xmlrpc posts posseing properly I can use the wordpress android app and my kupfer and thunar plugins again
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acegiak
GWG: hail!
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snarfed
hey aaronpk, i'm trying to grok the micropub spec. a few qs (no hurry)…
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GWG
Hail acegiak
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snarfed
1. do you distinguish an update from a create by the presence of the 'url' param?
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snarfed
2. what identifies a delete request?
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aaronpk
ben_thatmust: you did deletes right?
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snarfed
maybe DELETE verb?
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snarfed
or is it all POST
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aaronpk
all post
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GWG
Snarfed, what are you thinking in terms of design?
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aaronpk
ah we were gonna do action=delete
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aaronpk
and action=update
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aaronpk
to be more explicit
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snarfed
GWG: little to none
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aaronpk
there aren't a lot of implementations of updates and deletes yet :)
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snarfed
should i use the action param then?
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GWG
Snarfed, I meant how will the plugin work?
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snarfed
ben_thatmust: if you're one of the farthest ahead on micropub implementation, mind fleshing out the wiki page a little?
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GWG
There are dozens of POSSE options, how do you code for that?
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GWG
POSSE action hook?
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snarfed
GWG: hmm i don't quite follow. it implements the micropub spec. first pass will have no token mgmt, register a single url endpoint, and handle CRUD on it
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snarfed
GWG: i don't plan to implement syndication anytime soon
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aaronpk
you don't have to POSSE to support micropub
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GWG
Aaronpk, agreed.
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snarfed
GWG: i guess i could describe it as, iterative design instead of up front
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snarfed
(ie lazy and design as little as possible)
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GWG
Snarfed, my suggestion would be if you add the right hooks, others could add that without you
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snarfed
GWG: sure!
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snarfed
hooks can be added anytime
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aaronpk
doesn't wordpress already have all the hooks you'd need?
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aaronpk
like an after-save or something
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snarfed
probably
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GWG
That was what I meant by design
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aaronpk
the micropub plugin is really just going to be creating posts
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snarfed
ok. i'll still go with punting then. easy to add hooks later
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GWG
Snarfed, next question... How will you do replies?
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snarfed
aaronpk: i assume there's no action=create?
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snarfed
GWG: that seems orthogonal/out of scope, right?
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aaronpk
correct
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acegiak
yeah. that's not really part of micropub?
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GWG
Are you only doing straight notes?
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aaronpk
the micropub request for a reply will contain an in-reply-to URL
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aaronpk
how do you post replies right now in wordpress?
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acegiak
see here's the thing, GWG and I both store our reply metadata differently
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snarfed
these all sound like great things for me to punt on
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GWG
Aaronpk, through plugin. Nothing built in
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aaronpk
well v1 should be able to post notes, and even if that's all that launches that's a great start
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GWG
acegiak: Back to hooks
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aaronpk
acegiak: GWG: do you store likes the same way?
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acegiak
I've stopped storing likes with my weird little plugin setup
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acegiak
but I think I might switch to using GWG's plugin so we can build a nice wordpress ecosystem
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aaronpk
GWG: maybe this could plug in to the "post kinds" plugin
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GWG
Acegiak, what is your design now?
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aaronpk
so the micropub plugin would know about all the stuff post kinds knows
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GWG
Aaronpk, I am hoping.
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acegiak
I think post kinds is a good way to go
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aaronpk
and if you don't have the post kinds plugin then you can still use the micropub plugin to create regular notes
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GWG
I learned from Pfefferle's response to my queries. Which was, "I'll put in a hook or a filter and you can build the rest yourself."
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acegiak
at the moment I'm just using the old method of separate meta fields for context target context quote and context title
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acegiak
also: Did I show the wordpress peeps this: https://github.com/acegiak/prepopPost ?
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GWG
So, whatever snarfed builds I plan to be there proposing where to add the extension options
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snarfed
great!
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GWG
First I've seen it
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acegiak
has made life a lot easier for getting things into the post editor window
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GWG
Acegiak, may give it a shot.
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acegiak
sorry it's not well documented yet
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GWG
Acegiak, anything that I should know?
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acegiak
I don't think so. the js file is small enough to be understandable
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snarfed
this would be easier if i knew php
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snarfed
but that's never stopped me from writing plenty of php before
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snarfed
so here goes
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acegiak
you don't need ot know php to write php
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GWG
Snarfed, you are still a better PHP programmer than I am
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snarfed
hah i doubt that, but htanks
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GWG
I learned to write programs in BASIC and PASCAL
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aaronpk
i learned BASIC too!
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aaronpk
it took me a while to realize that variables could be more than 1 letter long, because all the examples in the reference book had single-letter variable names
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aaronpk
i was like "hm strange, what happens if my program gets really long and i need more than 26 variables!"
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GWG
I assume, aaronpk, that you stayed in programming after that.
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kylewm
it took me months maybe years of writing qbasic to find the Edit > New Sub menu
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GWG
Kylewm, how did you find your talk with the RSS guy?
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ben_thatmust
thats how i do it
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snarfed
ben_thatmust++ yay thx
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Loqi
ben_thatmust has 6 karma
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Loqi
[bridgy] Bill Seitz replied '.@kevinmarks @julien51 @davewiner @t @aaronpk Which RSS-era readers will accept such a non-RSS feed?' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/reader (https://twitter.com/BillSeitz/status/565310795698159616)
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GWG
Kylewm, I wasn't speaking literally.
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GWG
I was speaking figuratively
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aaronpk
ben_thatmust: would you consider "action" instead of "operation"? it seems better somehow
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kylewm
GWG: oh sorry :) it was a little nerve wracking, and a little frustrating for someone to say "we could interop if you would just listen to me and do things my way", but generally cool
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GWG
Kylewm, I keep learning abound here how much room there is for flexibility, but we are trying to create a common language
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GWG
Someone is bound to disagree on something
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snarfed
and then we crush them
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GWG
Snarfed, usually Tantek convinces me I'm not seeing things from the broader perspective, whether or not I agree with his point of view.
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GWG
Sometimes it is someone else.
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GWG
But that is a good thing. Nome of should be too wrapped up in our own opinion
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GWG
So, someone thinks that RSS is the right path. I believe otherwise. But I will support both standards for now
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kylewm
if i could post likes and comments on winer's blog using RSS i'd do it, if i could post them on pump.io using AS2.0 I'd do it... it's all plumbing
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gRegor`
snarfed++ for "these all sound like great things for me to punt on"
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Loqi
snarfed has 80 karma
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GWG
I support RSS because I already support it. If I had to maintain it, I am not sure if I would
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kylewm
gRegor`: you read that in Triumph's voice?
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gRegor`
Hahaha
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gRegor`
I did now.
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GWG
I support feed by email because I can't get my relatives to read my site. If enough people are interested, I want to engage with them. That is what I like about POSSE
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snarfed
huh. RSS/Atom feeds as a form of POSSE is an interesting framing
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tantek.com
edited /Atom (+347) "/* IndieWeb implementations */ examples, subsections, move projects to separate section"
(view diff)
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kylewm
snarfed: I tried that... tantek didn't buy it
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tantek.com
edited /RSS () "(-654) change Problems to Issues (under the assumption that they're resolvable), move Barnaby's example to Atom (since he has no RSS feed), move Projects to its own higher level section"
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GWG
Snarfed, no one has told me why RSS is better than markup
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acegiak
GWG: it's potentially less heavy
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tantek
acegiak - or potentially more heavy as some of us have found with Atom
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tantek
GWG, keep asking that question
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GWG
People want feed readers still, but do people need RSS for that?
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kylewm
lol that's when tantek said my question was "the best illustration of feed-framing-blinders I have seen"
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snarfed
GWG: imho *right now* RSS is better because of the ecosystem
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snarfed
everything supports it
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snarfed
when indie readers etc are more mature, that will go away
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GWG
A feed reader delivers me a summary. I still visit the main site to get the content. Where is the lightness?
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snarfed
kylewm: heh yeah. the framing doesn't hold together for long…but cute while it lasts
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KevinMarks
467 6608 51259
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KevinMarks
720 3235 25587
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snarfed
kylewm: i love that tantek claimed to be shocked by the idea
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KevinMarks
about half the size
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snarfed
*shocked*, he tells you
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snarfed
still, fair point
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GWG
The people who didn't reply to me before still aren't going to with or without RSS
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snarfed
lots of people read but don't reply
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acegiak
GWG: I'm doing it. I'm installing post kinds
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acegiak
I'm gonna add legacy support code to my theme
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GWG
acegiak++
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acegiak
so I don't have to touch my old metadata
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Loqi
acegiak has 7 karma
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snarfed
wonders why he's participating in a feed debate
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tantek
snarfed, slow night?
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GWG
Acegiak, can I have a review?
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acegiak
you can when I've played with it
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tantek
snarfed, I'm trying to focus on documenting facts that are coming up in the debate
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GWG
Acegiak, exactly
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snarfed
tantek: you're a better man than me
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@kartik_prabhu
Just dropped my RSS feed. Will keep Atom around for a while. (https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/no-rss)
(twtr.io/w5BkZzuEg6)
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tantek
snarfed, maybe I'm lazier?
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snarfed
doubtful
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gRegor`
Haha
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tantek
!tell KartikPrabhu which version of RSS did you used to support?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG
So, assuming the issue is the heaviness of the full html feed, how do you address that?
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tantek
GWG, assumption rejected without personal metrics
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acegiak
so post kinds is a fork of custom taxonomy isnt it?
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tantek
since clearly we're having widely different results
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gRegor`
GWG "A feed reader delivers me a summary" That's if the feed creator is making it a summary-only feed. Aren't they likely to do the same if they adopt mf2? Since they're so greedy for the clicks, heh
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acegiak
so I should get rid of custom taxonomy
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KevinMarks
the wataerpig parser is barfing on tantek's page
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tantek
^^^ GWG, FAQs for "IndieWeb Kinds Plugin" ?
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tantek
KevinMarks, as the CSS WG and W3C Publications Process folks have grown fond of telling me this week, I'm apparently quite good at breaking things (unintentionally of course)
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tantek
KevinMarks: can you file a github issue against that service?
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KevinMarks
no, it's no open source
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tantek
perhaps leave him a !tell ?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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gRegor`
I think Barnaby is already aware. https://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4_bL4R/
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GWG
Acegiak, yes
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GWG
Tantek, biggest question... What the heck is this?
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tantek
GWG, "this" in the immediate context is chat in IRC.
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tantek.com
edited /RSS (+325) "/* Shutdowns */ explicitly note Kartik since he distinguished RSS vs Atom"
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acegiak
GWG: wheres your base theme?
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tantek.com
edited /RSS (+399) "/* Issues */ Ambiguous Usage"
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tantek.com
edited /RSS (+923) "Criticism / Causes Plumbing Misfocus, how to solve/escape"
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pdurbin
snarfed: nice to see "legacy" changed to "proven" on the RSS page: http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=RSS&diff=17312&oldid=17304
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snarfed
pdurbin: all tantek, not me
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snarfed
(but i approve)
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GWG
irt1904
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pdurbin
oh. duh. good edit, tantek
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GWG
Oops. Typing that somewhere else
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GWG
tantek: I was referring to your FAQ Post Kinds question.
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tantek
hmm - not sure I made that edit
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tantek
but I'm good with the natural collaborative evolution of this page
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tantek
hmm - who is Www.ouvre-boite.com ?
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tantek
that's who made the edit
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tantek
ah that's Julien Genestoux
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tantek.com
created /User:Www.ouvre-boite.com (+85) "stub with an h-card"
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tantek
pdurbin it was Julien Genestoux
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pdurbin
ok. I find `git blame` easier for this stuff :)
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tantek
pdurbin - I like the "History" link myself :)
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pdurbin
to each his/her own
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acegiak
GWG: what do I need to do to get make multikind posts be a thing?
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snarfed
ok wordpress people! it's *barely* working, but it's working, at least for create. feel free to try it out. https://github.com/snarfed/wordpress-micropub
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GWG
acegiak: File Issue?
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GWG
I'll consider unofficial support.
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snarfed.org
edited /Micropub (+102) "/* Response */ undelete"
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tantek.com
edited /RSS (+265) "clarify RSS is not a singular format, nor is "RSS/Atom", varying degrees of adoption/usage/openness"
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GWG
I think it is easier as a single thing, but I'll find a way to make it work under the hood
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tantek
pdurbin - I tried to be more precise with the wording re: RSS - please feel free to further improve the wording
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acegiak
I don't see how "repost and comment" makes sense as two separate posts rather than one single multiverb post
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GWG
Repost and reply?
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GWG
I don't have comment
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tantek
acegiak: they happen at two different points in time, with different keystrokes / mouse-clicks, thus they are different human events
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tantek
thus different posts
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tantek
also - common practice
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tantek
typical sites treat them as separate posts
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tantek
so that's the user model people are used to
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tantek
there's two reasons
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snarfed
tantek: not always, facebook is an example of both as a single action
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tantek
1. temporally distinct actions = distinct posts
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acegiak
except tumblr and facebook?
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tantek
2. established user model
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tantek
snarfed: do you mean share + comment?
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snarfed
eh fb may or may not be. you comment on the repost, but it doesn't show up as a comment on the original post, so maybe not
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tantek
right
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tantek
share comments are very confusing
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acegiak
also I'm reposting largely to give context to my reply
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tantek
and kind of annoying if you're the original poster
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tantek
allows people to hijack comments on your post
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snarfed
same w/g+
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tantek
acegiak - "reposting largely to give context to my reply" - that's called a /reply-context !
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tantek
not a repost
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tantek
hey gRegor` your example doesn't look very indiewebby: http://indiewebcamp.com/RSS#gRegor_Morrill
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tantek
your usage of feedburner is more like POSSEing to feedburner rather than actually being an IndieWeb Example of RSS yourself
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acegiak
for my ux flow I have a post in my feed reader, I hit a button to bring up my response box, it prepopulates the quote field, I then optionally add a comment and/or tick a "like" box?
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acegiak
those are three verbs happening at the same time
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acegiak
that way I don't have to show the reply context on my site twice for comment and like
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ben_thatmust
aaronpk, i think i can agree, action makes more sense
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ben_thatmust
!tell aaronpk I agree action is better, i remember why i avoided it, to not confuse it with action="POST" on the form
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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snarfed
acegiak: tantek: we've had this conversation before, right? combined and separate reply/repost/like/etc are both ok, right?
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acegiak
yeah we have
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acegiak
and we came to the same conclusion
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GWG
I'm willing to support multikind. I just found it was not the more common use case, so it shouldn't be the default behavior.
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snarfed
k wordpress-micropub supports update and delete now
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snarfed
…and now i'll stop narrating my commits :P
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GWG
snarfed: I'm enjoying it.
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acegiak
it's like livetweeting
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snarfed
heh thx
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ben_thatmust
snarfed, did you use action=delete
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ben_thatmust
i want to update my client to do the same
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snarfed
ben_thatmust: it supports both action= and operation=
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ben_thatmust
i'm going to swap over to action=
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ben_thatmust
its a minor confusion
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ben_thatmust
i don't think it will be a problem
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kylewm
food for thought, would you consider using a single letter for the action param to distinguish it from a property that is being posted? h=type, o=operation
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /Micropub-brainstorming (-12) "/* Explicit CRUD */ migrate operation= to action="
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acegiak
GWG: running indieweb post kinds with mf2_s getting these:
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ben_thatmust
hmmm, kylewm, i suppose we could, but i don't see the point. it just makes it harder to read
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snarfed
hey wordpress people, do any of you know how to get an http header from the current request?
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snarfed
can't find it for the life of me
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ben_thatmust
the h= i can forgive because it fits well with mf2
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ben_thatmust
but i don't think you want to go down the road of shorthanding every field name
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kylewm
ben_thatmust: as it is, it's a mix of content and control parameters in one flat hierarchy... what if i hypothetically wanted to publish a "p-action" field in my post
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kylewm
the "action" parameter is already taken
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kylewm
(that is to say, I'm not just suggesting shortening it because it's easier to type)
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acegiak
snarfed: pretty sure that you can get it just the php way unless wordpress is specifically blocking that? http://php.net/manual/en/function.getallheaders.php
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snarfed
oh, php has some global knowledge of "the current http request"?
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snarfed
wow ok
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kylewm
i think that function specifically doesn't exist in nginx -- we had to shim one in for Known if i remember correctly?
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acegiak
but that's different
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snarfed
acegiak: yeah, i saw that one, it makes a separate external http HEAD request
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ben_thatmust
kylewm, i think its better to do what is logical now, don't plan for things that may never happen
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kylewm
ben_thatmust: also I'm repeating the argument that aaronpk made when I asked him why it was "h" instead of "type"
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ben_thatmust
if anything i would say you prefix any control params with something
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kylewm
snarfed: acegiak: here's the shim they added to Known https://github.com/idno/Known/blob/master/Idno/Pages/File/View.php#L25
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kylewm
ben_thatmust: yeah I'd be down with prefixing too
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snarfed
kylewm++ whee thanks
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Loqi
kylewm has 115 karma
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kylewm
snarfed: maybe just use $_SERVER directly?
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snarfed
i abdicate any such decision
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ben_thatmust
kylewm, i'd like to hear aaronpk weigh in on this..... now that i converted entirely to action already :P
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ben_thatmust
prefixing would clean things up a lot though
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ben_thatmust
specifically if we get in to the other ideas of removing fields and things of that nature that are in the brainstorming page
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GWG
acegiak: Thinking about design. I have an idea.
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GWG
.map? Why does it need that?
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aaronpk
hi again
#
Loqi
aaronpk: ben_thatmust left you a message 36 minutes ago: I agree action is better, i remember why i avoided it, to not confuse it with action="POST" on the form
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aaronpk
man i'm afk for an hour and snarfed already has a working micropub endpoint for wordpress??
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ben_thatmust
but there is plenty more talk after that
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acegiak
do you get the error loading that up?
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snarfed
aaronpk: don't get too excited
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snarfed
(but yes)
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kylewm
acegiak: what has happened!!
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ben_thatmust
aaronpk, indieweb moves pretty fast, if you don't stop to look around once in a while, you might just miss it
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acegiak
kylewm: I'm fiddling
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GWG
acegiak: I'm not sure what happened. It's meant to be a blank theme.
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kylewm
ben_thatmustbeme++ for excellent ferris bueller reference
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme has 42 karma
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acegiak
oh I think a plugin is fucking it, gimme a sec
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Loqi
ahahahaha
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GWG
acegiak: I can add the map file.
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kylewm
Loqi you have a puerile sense of humor
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Loqi
grins profusely
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GWG
It shouldn't need it. it is a product of SASS
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ben_thatmust
snarfed, now just need to test MobilePub to wordpress :D
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aaronpk
okay let me read scrollback...
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aaronpk
yes the reason for h=entry in micropub was because "h=entry" looks similar to "h-entry" as well as it being very unlikely that anyone would want to set a property on their post called "h"
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GWG
acegiak: If you are interested, I'm build a full theme.
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acegiak
GWG: I'm gonna child theme it up for the moment
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acegiak
GWG: should a .map file have been generated?
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ben_thatmust
waits for aaronpk to catch up fully
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GWG
acegiak: It is generated, but the error doesn't appear on my site.
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acegiak
how does it get generated?
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acegiak
is sass a thing I need to install?
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aaronpk
i suppose it may make sense to prefix all micropub parameters
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GWG
I could add it to the package, if you want. But it isn't on my production site, and it runs without asking for it.
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ben_thatmust
mp_action
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aaronpk
hyphen but maybe yeah
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ben_thatmust
mp-action=
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aaronpk
or hd-action
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aaronpk
since h is an upside-down µ and d is an upside-down p
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acegiak
GWG: don't add it to the package. I'll try and work out why it's asking
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GWG
I'm new to SASS
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ben_thatmust
i'm missing something there
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aaronpk
µ=micro
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ben_thatmust
then it would be dh
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aaronpk
nah flip hd vertically
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aaronpk
oops hb
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ben_thatmust
or thats just silly
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aaronpk
it is in fact silly
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aaronpk
but I always assumed that's why h was used in the first place
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ben_thatmust
so, i think mp-action is something that makes a good amount of sense
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ben_thatmust
and any newer micropub specific things would just be mp-
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aaronpk
i agree
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ben_thatmust
i use type= to specify what type i want to post it as (i know your dislike of it) but i can change that to mp-type
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aaronpk
you use h= also tho right?
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ben_thatmust
yes, but its always only h=post
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aaronpk
h=entry you mean I hope
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snarfed
kylewm: ok, first pass at wp micropub plugin is done. ready to port https://github.com/snarfed/ownyourresponses to micropub! :P
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ben_thatmust
honestly its always set and i didn't really see any other values
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ben_thatmust
other than like h=recipe, but i'm not there yet
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ben_thatmust
or card, which will be useful when i get in to storing contacts and things
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aaronpk
yeah that's what it's for
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aaronpk
the reason i don't like type= is because it doesn't correspond to anything in microformats
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ben_thatmust
would that mean syndicate-to should actually be mp-syndicate-to ?
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aaronpk
and on the brainstorming page, we'd have mp-remove-field
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aaronpk
oh don't forget about h=event
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ben_thatmust
i'm going to wait on using syndicate-to as that has been implemented fairly wider already
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ben_thatmust
mp-h=event?
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aaronpk
which is probably the next one to happen
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aaronpk
no, for creating events
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ben_thatmust
yeah, i saw that too
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aaronpk
and h=card for creating venues before checking in to them
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acegiak
GWG: so how do I make it so that posts with no kind are displayed?
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aaronpk
imagine what happened if I sent a request with wp=1
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aaronpk
you should use $_POST instead, unless there is a Wordpress way of fetching post parameters
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acegiak
wordpress messes with those fields sometimes though
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aaronpk
with $_POST?
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acegiak
I've had trouble with it in the past
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aaronpk
k then do `parse_str($content, $params);` instead, so you set the variables in the $params array
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aaronpk
the fact that php still allows you to set local variables from http post data is sad
#
aaronpk
i'm happy to send a PR real quick :)
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GWG
acegiak: They should be displayed.
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acegiak
gwg: yeah, I just created a new one and it is
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acegiak
so why aren't old posts displaying...
#
GWG
acegiak: It did in my tests. Maybe I missed something.
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acegiak
no I just posted a new post with no kind throug xmlrpc and it showed up was fine
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GWG
I was trying to make it so everything had a kind. But it defaults to thinking it is a note if it has no kind, for backward compatibility.
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snarfed
aaronpk: thanks. that part was copied verbatim from the webmention plugin.
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acegiak
yeah that makes sense
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snarfed
exactly :(
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acegiak
GWG: Call to undefined function get_linkbacks_number() in /pile/serv/wp-content/themes/mf2_s-master/inc/entry-meta.php on line 130,
#
GWG
acegiak: It's a Semantic Linkbacks function. You must have an older version.
#
aaronpk
attempts to send a bad webmention
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acegiak
version from the wordpress directory?
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GWG
acegiak: Github repo. I think pfefferle hasn't updated.
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /Micropub-brainstorming (+12) "/* Explicit CRUD */ using mp-action now"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
well luckily the webmention plugin doesn't actually use the $wp variable
#
aaronpk
i'm still going to send a PR for it
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acegiak
eeyyyyyyy. all my posts are displaying!
#
GWG
acegiak: That good or bad?
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ben_thatmust
my site now all swapped off to mp-type and mp-action as well as MobilePub
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kylewm
aaronpk: ben_thatmust: wow did you decide "mp-type" instead of "h"?
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ben_thatmust
kylewm no
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aaronpk
i was assuming he was using mp-type for things like photo vs reply
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ben_thatmust
h=entry,mp-type=checkin
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ben_thatmust
yeah, exactly
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aaronpk
ben_thatmust: what happens when you post a reply that has a photo?
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ben_thatmust
its a photo, reply isn't a basic type for me
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ben_thatmust
its a photo that happens to have a in-reply-to
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aaronpk
interesting
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aaronpk
see all this feels like internals that don't matter to publishers or consumers
#
aaronpk
in the end you publish an h-entry post with a bunch of properties
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ben_thatmust
yes and no, so for me actually note vs article is a difference of encoding (articles are written in html with an <hr> to define the break for the short version) but notes are just text
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ben_thatmust
honestly i think thats the most important piece
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ben_thatmust
i use it to determine checkin vs note, which is a minor distinction, i could eliminate one of those types
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tantek
snarfed - yes re: multi-type post or multiple posts. I think we're continuing the discussion and trying to capture / express how both models could make sense or make sense to different people.
#
GWG
acegiak: The plugin needs more work. It is so far good enough. BUt it needs to be better
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ben_thatmust
and i use it for rsvp, but i don't need it for that, i have fields that would be unique for it
#
aaronpk
I guess it's only needed if it is somehow possible for two different kinds of posts to have the same properties
#
aaronpk
and if they have the same properties then why are they different kinds of posts
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ben_thatmust
basically yes
#
aaronpk
but i would be curious if there are any examples
#
ben_thatmust
organization
#
ben_thatmust
also presentation
#
ben_thatmust
i may include gps co-ordinates on a note, but its not a checkin to a location
#
ben_thatmust
whereas i might check-in to a location, with a brief text attached to it
#
aaronpk
that's where i'm not clear yet on the distinction as well, mostly around what makes something a checkin, and is that really important
#
ben_thatmust
and i want the presentation different on those
#
Loqi
gives ben_thatmust the presentation different on those
#
ben_thatmust
glares a loqi
#
Loqi
dude
#
ben_thatmust
the focus of a note is the text, the focus of a checkin is the location, with a checkin i show a map, with text below it, with a note i show text with a link to a geo-coords
#
tantek
reads logs
#
aaronpk
great, can you post screenshots of both examples ot the wiki?
#
ben_thatmust
not right now, i'm about to head to bed. but think of it as "Dude this garden is cool" vs "I'm at XYZ Bar, try the turkey club"
#
kylewm
had to read that multiple times before i figured out you meant the sandwich and not the turkey nightclub
#
tantek
haha that's hilarious
#
tantek
ben_thatmust: did you get the follow-up about your invited expert application?
#
tantek
I think there's some more form filling out you need to do
#
ben_thatmust
checks his spam folder
#
ben_thatmust
okay, headed to bed
#
ben_thatmust
i'll keep an eye out for in tantek
#
aaronpk
good night!
#
Loqi
buenas noches
#
@dnnr
RT @new_wp_plugins: New #WordPress plugin: indieweb-post-kinds- https://wordpress.org/plugins/indieweb-post-kinds/ Allows you to reply/like/RSVP etc to another site fr…
(twtr.io/w5yPg5D0Sg)
#
tantek
ben_thatmust: yes you should have already received an email - from Sandro I think.
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tantek
has caught up on logs for today
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acegiak
GWG: hell yeah! that 'header_entry_meta' hook made it so easy to get my legacy response data to display without having to modify theme files
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acegiak
nice work!
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Loqi
GWG has 69 karma
#
GWG
acegiak: Each revision gets better. This is my fourth theme rewrite
#
acegiak
you're a machine
#
GWG
acegiak: No, I'm obsessive compulsive. Not clinically, but...
#
GWG
I want to get it 'right'
#
GWG
I don't think I'm there.
#
acegiak
now I just need to update my posse plugin to work with your metadata structure
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GWG
acegiak: I want things to work simply, and they aren't there yet.
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acegiak
yeah simplicity is complex
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gRegor`
aaronpk, acegiak, snarfed: WordPress *always* adds slashes to $_POST, regardless of magic_quotes_gpc setting *AND* will continue to do so even though magic quotes is removed as of PHP 5.4
#
gRegor`
File under: WordPress is freaking stupid.
#
acegiak
gRegor`: I learned to just put my head down and use wordpresses provided interfaces
#
gRegor`
It's bad coding practice.
#
GWG
Ditto. Choose your battles.
#
gRegor`
strip slashes and properly escape $_POST data
#
gRegor`
I have no illusions about changing WordPress. Just pointing it out.
#
GWG
gRegor`: The issue is WordPress's stubborn insistence on not breaking things
#
gRegor`
Yep. It's mentioned in the notes on that codex page
#
GWG
gRegor`: It's why they won't dump XMLRPC when JSON comes in.
#
GWG
Although that is rather behind.
#
tantek
gRegor`: what do you think of recategorizing your use of Feedburner as a form of POSSE rather than actual IndieWeb RSS? (since the URL is not at your domain)
#
gRegor`
*shrug*
#
gRegor`
I'm actually working on migrating that back to my own domain currently.
#
acegiak
GWG: ok so how do I get the response data from your system? I'm just updating my posse plugin now
#
GWG
It's stored as an array in metadata.
#
tantek
gRegor`: what are the reasons to use your own domain for RSS vs. using Feedburner? or using both?
#
gRegor`
tantek: I confirmed and the feed I publish on my site is RSS 2.0, which Feedburner, I believe, converts to Atom.
#
gRegor`
Feedburner was something I set-and-forget back in the day, when it was popular and beloved. And it worked well.
#
gRegor`
It's basically been stagnant and I'd rather move it back to my domain before it just disappears one day.
#
tantek
what is FeedBurner?
#
Loqi
FeedBurner is a service that aggregates feeds and provides analytics to publishers https://indiewebcamp.com/FeedBurner
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GWG
acegiak: You could also try get_kind_response($post_ID)
lukebrooker joined the channel
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acegiak
GWG: a repost kind doesn't save response url or the title?
#
GWG
They all save identically, or should.
#
acegiak
hmm, apparently none are saving titles or URLS...
#
acegiak
maybe my legacy plugin is getting in the way
#
acegiak
ok yeah it was collisions
#
acegiak
all fixed
#
Loqi
giggles
#
GWG
acegiak: Let me test and see if it is working for me. I don't think I broke anything.
#
acegiak
GWG: I fixed it
#
acegiak
my plugin for displaying my legacy posts was hijacking hte action
#
GWG
acegiak: Okay
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kylewm
I feel like I should know this... as a "developer" of a facebook app, do I still have to file for a review before the app can publish to my page?
#
kylewm
i didn't have to for redwind, but the api has changed since then, and now it's not working for a Known i'm setting up for my partner
#
snarfed
kylewm: to your page? or your profile?
#
snarfed
and you have to ask for the right scopes regardless, it will just always give them to you if you own the app
#
kylewm
ah great
#
kylewm
to my page i guess
#
kylewm
timeline? wall?
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snarfed
oh, i mean, fb page vs user
#
kylewm
oh oh sorry, user profile thing
#
snarfed
yeah. then just make sure you ask for publish_actions?
#
kylewm
snarfed++ thanks that worked!
#
Loqi
snarfed has 81 karma
#
kylewm
i had an outdated version of the known code that wasn't asking for all the perms
#
tantek.com
edited /rsvp (+366) "stub Brainstorming with intent for the section similar to /like"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /rsvp (+234) "/* Brainstorming */ some value/prose possibilities to consider"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /rsvp (+139) "/* Brainstorming */ Remote variants"
(view diff)
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kgoon.asia
edited /How_to_set_up_web_sign-in_on_your_own_domain-ko (+32) "/* 1. 당신의 홈페이지에 다양한 소셜 프로필을 연결합니다. */"
(view diff)
#
kgoon.asia
edited /How_to_set_up_web_sign-in_on_your_own_domain-ko (+11) "/* 1. 당신의 홈페이지에 다양한 소셜 프로필을 연결합니다. */"
(view diff)
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snarfed.org
edited /Micropub (+111) "/* Open Source */ wordpress plugin"
(view diff)
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snarfed.org
edited /WordPress_Plugins (+131) "micropub plugin"
(view diff)
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acegiak
everything appears to be working with your plugin, now GWG
#
GWG
acegiak: Great.
#
acegiak
I've made a couple of small changes which I'll submit on github
#
GWG
acegiak: Great.
#
acegiak
GWG: pull request there for you
#
GWG
Okay. Will look at it tomorrow. Near bed here
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pfefferle
good morning all
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acegiak
pfefferle: morning
elf-pavlik, sanduhrs, LauraJ, benwerd_, iandevlin, KevinMarks_, KartikPrabhu and loic_m joined the channel
#
@hamishcampbell
The openweb... Tantek Celik, "Why We Need the IndieWeb", #PDF14: https://www.youtube.com/
(twtr.io/w6R6cdtFsY)
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dns53, thehighfiveghost, interactivist, KevinMarks_, eschnou, LauraJ, Sebastien-L, pfefferle, stream7, Deledrius, barnabywalters, KartikPrabhu and friedcell joined the channel
#
@bookprescom
8 Mobile Landing Pages Get Spanked for Conversion’s Sake >> http://www.searchenginejournal.com/?p=123651&utm_content=buffer44020&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #SocialMedia Tip from Casey Ark. #SelfPublish #IndieAuth…
(twtr.io/w6d530WnU1)
wagle, kerosene, adactio, KevinMarks_ and michielbdejong joined the channel
#
@sandeepshetty
Facebook suspending Native Americans over ‘fake’ names http://rt.com/usa/231187-facebook-suspending-native-americans/ #indieweb #ownyouridentity
(twtr.io/w6gxvbSaj1)
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@elfpavlik
RT @sandeepshetty: Facebook suspending Native Americans over ‘fake’ names http://rt.com/usa/231187-facebook-suspending-native-americans/ #indieweb #ownyouridentity
(twtr.io/w6j8sKdXk6)
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GWG
Good morning all
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ben_thatmust
!tell tantek no e-mail from Sandro or anyone else
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
#
@thierrymarianne
RT @sandeepshetty: Facebook suspending Native Americans over ‘fake’ names http://rt.com/usa/231187-facebook-suspending-native-americans/ #indieweb #ownyouridentity
(twtr.io/w6njEaB1QH)
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@YannPdeM
RT @sandeepshetty: Facebook suspending Native Americans over ‘fake’ names http://rt.com/usa/231187-facebook-suspending-native-americans/ #indieweb #ownyouridentity
(twtr.io/w6pEu_Zmoa)
scor, elf-pavlik, elf-pavlik_, elf-pavlik__, Acidnerd, friedcell and KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
GWG
Pfefferle, did you see snarfed's work?
#
pfefferle
GWG if you speak of the micropup plugin
#
GWG
Pub, and yes
#
pfefferle
GWG but I still see no need to use micropub :)
#
pfefferle
GWG but I understand why snarfed is doing it
#
GWG
I really wanted a simple and fast note posting UI.
#
GWG
Micropub could be the way to address that.
#
GWG
Of course, there are many other ways too
#
GWG
It takes me too long and too many steps to post a note
indie-visitor joined the channel
#
Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
indie-visitor joined the channel
#
indie-visitor
yo
#
madpandakiller
hay guys
#
madpandakiller
any one play day-z
MadPandaKiller, loic_m and LauraJ joined the channel
#
MadPandaKiller
yo
#
MadPandaKiller
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MadPandaKiller
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MadPandaKiller
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MadPandaKiller
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MadPandaKiller
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MadPandaKiller
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MadPandaKiller
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MadPandaKiller
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MadPandaKiller
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MadPandaKiller
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MadPandaKiller
v
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MadPandaKiller
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MadPandaKiller
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#
MadPandaKiller
If you guys play dayz sa join you should apply to join this clan http://www.misfitsdayz.com/
#
barnabywalters
aaronpk, can you kick madpandakiller as obviously spam?
#
MadPandaKiller
If you guys play dayz sa join you should apply to join this clan http://www.misfitsdayz.com/
#
Loqi
barnabywalters: KevinMarks left you a message on 2/10 at 5:14pm: https://waterpigs.co.uk/services/microformats-to-atom/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com seems to mis out all the h-entry's
#
MadPandaKiller
I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE HERE
#
barnabywalters
madpandakiller: you are not. why are you spamming the channel?
#
cweiske
you can't see him anymore now
#
XxNinja37xX
Idk
#
XxNinja37xX
why not
fourtonfish joined the channel
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aaronpk
oh well looks like that took care of itself
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GWG
Anyone have any good examples of the data passed to a reply endpoint?
#
barnabywalters
GWG: if you’re talking about micropub, shrewdness just sends content and in-reply-to
#
GWG
Snarfed is doing micropub for WordPress. I thought I might add something that worked more like the twitter intents
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
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GWG
As a complement to that.
frzn and danlyke joined the channel
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sandro
ben_thatmust, did you get the IE email finally? I clicked the wrong place yesterday and messed up the process, but supposedly it's been sorted now.
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
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ben_thatmustbeme
sandro, I did, thank you
#
sandro
Great :)
#
barnabywalters
GWG: so you’re making posting endpoints for wordpress which auto-fill form fields with values from the URL query string?
LauraJ joined the channel
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barnabywalters
in that case IMO the only thing required is the in-reply-to URL, and then if the UI wants to pre-fill the content with stuff based on the URL (e.g. twitter @name) it can do that itself
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pfefferle
GWG but micropub will only provide an API… so you still have to code a simple UI for that…
#
aaronpk
you don't really need to use the micropub api if you're posting from wordpress. it's more useful for posting from other apps
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pfefferle
exactly
#
pfefferle
GWG aaronpk I understand why snarfed wants to implement it, because it is easier to run micropub calls instead of for example atom-pup or xml-rpc https://github.com/snarfed/ownyourresponses
#
ben_thatmustbeme
now i just have a ton of reading to catch up with for SocialWG
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aaronpk
pfefferle: yes also because there are a bunch of micropub apps that he'll be able to use soon! like the readers for example
#
rhiaro
Just finished figuring out what to say for my talk about indieweb at Edinburgh Techmeetup tonight
#
rhiaro
It's basically going to be a guided tour of the wiki
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aaronpk
rhiaro: awesome!
#
rhiaro
Hopefully will recruit lots of people for IWC Edinburgh!
#
pfefferle
aaronpk but it doesn’t simplify the posting UI at the end
gRegor` joined the channel
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aaronpk
what do you mean?
#
pfefferle
aaronpk except you always want to use extenal apps/webservices to post
#
aaronpk
that's what it's for
#
aaronpk
so you can use a reader like http://reader.kylewm.com and click the "like" button and have it post to your wordpress site
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ben_thatmustbeme
rhiaro, will it be recorded?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
s/recorded/posted online/
#
Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: rhiaro, will it be posted online?
#
rhiaro
ben_thatmustbeme: they often are, though I odn't know what happens to the recordings
#
pfefferle
aaronpk Yes :) My only problem: I am not sure how micropub will help GWG to simplify the WordPress posting UI
#
rhiaro
I'll try to get hold of it if so
#
aaronpk
recordings often go into a black hole
#
aaronpk
it's hard to actually do something with the video after recording it
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i'm just thinking if its posted, its another entry for /presentations
#
aaronpk
your best bet is gonna be to try to snag the file at the event. bring an external hard drive :)
#
rhiaro
if they don't post it on techmeetup.org I'll post it myself
#
rhiaro
I know where to hunt the organisers down, so I'll pester for it :)
#
aaronpk
excellent
#
KevinMarks_
I recognise that, aaronpk. I have done talks that were obviously being videoed, so didn't ask anyone to do it for me, and then the organisers never posted them
#
rhiaro
s/techmeetup.org/techmeetup.co.uk
#
aaronpk
i've found the only way to make sure i post videos of talks i record is to do it the same week
#
aaronpk
otherwise it quickly falls into the "low priority" status and gets buried under other stuff
#
rhiaro
aha, looks like they're only a month behind http://vimeo.com/techmeetup
#
rhiaro
so that bodes well
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gregorlove.com
edited /FeedBurner (+56) "/* Indieweb Examples */ Former"
(view diff)
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gregorlove.com
edited /RSS (-262) "/* Indieweb Examples */"
(view diff)
j12t and mlncn-agaric joined the channel
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gregorlove.com
edited /Atom (+361) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ +me"
(view diff)
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gregorlove.com
edited /User:Gregorlove.com (+28) "/* Interests */"
(view diff)
tjgillies joined the channel
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gregorlove.com
edited /RSS (-5) "word-o"
(view diff)
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kylewm.com
edited /Atom (-49) "fix hotlinked logo"
(view diff)
#
aaronpk
really? there are no examples of people publishing an RSS feed?
#
gRegor`
It was only added to the page yesterday.
#
gRegor`
Barnaby and I were in that section, but he is technically Atom
#
gRegor`
And now I am too. :)
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aaronpk
i just checked and mine is also atom
#
aaronpk
i have no idea why i chose atom over rss when i made it
friedcell joined the channel
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gRegor`
I migrated back to Atom because popular indieweb opinion seems to be it's the lesser of two XMeviLs
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gRegor`
I've heard that outside indieweb, too.
#
gRegor`
Feels good to have reclaimed the feed, though! Thankfully the FeedBurner delete+permanently redirect process was easy.
#
aaronpk
they have a "permanently redirect" feature? that's a great feature to add to the feedburner page
#
gRegor`
It's on /FeedBurner
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aaronpk
oh good
#
gRegor`
You could add yourself to /Atom#IndieWeb_Examples
#
kylewm.com
edited /Atom (+344) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add me"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
my atom tag is gone from my home page so it's not discoverable anymore. i don't know when that happened.
#
gRegor`
Ah
#
aaronpk
i think i removed it when i kept getting complaints that my articles weren't showing up very nicely in atom, like images were broken or something
#
kylewm
aaronpk: yeah iirc some readers couldn't parse your xml
#
aaronpk
and i just didn't want to deal with fixing it
#
aaronpk
i should link to the h-entry->atom service tho
#
gRegor`
I went to the trouble of validating my feed last night and yeah, it's a bit of a pain. Mostly just the way I had to tinker with the way /Nucleus outputs information, to encode certain entities.
#
aaronpk
oh huh, I don't even have an HTML page with the full text of articles
#
kylewm.com
edited /RSS (+0) "/* Indieweb Examples */ use canonical page name Atom instead of ATOM"
(view diff)
#
gregorlove.com
created /Template:see_also (+101) "'see also' template"
(view diff)
interactivist joined the channel
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kylewm
@julien51 is also Atom...
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kylewm
even pump2rss uses Atom
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
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gregorlove.com
created /Template:! (+1) "Ceci n'est pas une pipe."
(view diff)
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gregorlove.com
edited /RSS (-2) "/* Indieweb Examples */"
(view diff)
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gregorlove.com
edited /Template:see_also (+39) "doc sub-template"
(view diff)
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@kylewm2
indiewebcamp tries to document social web interactions, but “so-and-so invited you to like their page” is one i’d feel good about skipping
(twtr.io/w7AG7_Ee4Y)
KevinMarks_ and marclaporte joined the channel
#
gregorlove.com
edited /RSS (-7) "/* Indieweb Examples */ corrected link"
(view diff)
marclaporte joined the channel
#
gregorlove.com
edited /Atom (-9) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ see also template"
(view diff)
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gRegor`
http://indiewebcamp.com/Template:see_also is set up now. Renders the "See also" links in the same way as "Main article" links.
friedcell, jancborchardt, snarfed, tilgovi, stream7, ttepasse and interactivist joined the channel
#
snarfed
straw poll: micropub and webmention endpoints with query params. subjective vote…fine? unfortunate but ok? horrible?
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kylewm
fine (note that p3k's webmention endpoint has query params)
KartikPrabhu, snarfed1 and scor joined the channel
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snarfed1
kylewm: thx
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aaronpk
shouldn't matter since both accept POST requests so you never need to mess with the URL you're given
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gRegor`
snarfed1: sounds fine to me
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snarfed1
thanks guys
#
snarfed1
ugh brb
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gRegor`
As long as it's not a utm_ param
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aaronpk
gRegornobacktick++
#
Loqi
gRegornobacktick has 38 karma
snarfed joined the channel
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gRegor`
haha
#
gRegor`
Speaking of, a week or two ago someone posted some javascript to automatically redirect to canonical links. Anyone have that handy?
#
aaronpk
i don't know where it came from but i just copied that out of my bookmarks bar
marclaporte joined the channel
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gRegor`
Thanks!
#
gRegor`
Ah, so it's a bookmarklet, not something that automatically redirects?
cuibonobo, KartikPrabhu, thehighfiveghost, danlyke, eschnou, KevinMarks_, benwerd_ and tilgovi joined the channel
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aaronpk
lol at signup overlay
#
aaronpk
open chrome inspector, delete overlay class, stream is already playing
gmack and eschnou joined the channel
wolftune, LauraJ and frzn1 joined the channel
#
kylewm.com
edited /RSS (+239) "/* Indieweb Examples */ finally found some examples of people using RSS and not Atom"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
rhiaro is on now!
#
aaronpk
oh 10-minute break first
#
kylewm
nice, thanks aaronpk
LauraJ joined the channel
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benwerd_
slightly homesick
#
benwerd_
That thing when there are people you know milling around on the livestream but they're 5000 miles away *waves helplessly at screen*
#
kylewm
i could happily listen to sub-audible drone of scottish accents all day
#
benwerd_
It's like Coffitivity but Scottish
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benwerd_
Whiskitivity?
#
gRegor`
benwerd_ beat me to it. I was just trying to remember the name of Coffitivity, haha
#
@benwerd
Watching an #indieweb presentation at #techmeetup Edinburgh! http://new.livestream.com/accounts/8047110/events/3803239
(twtr.io/w7RhdCybaC)
#
kylewm
aaronpk: benwerd_: can you hear her?
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benwerd_
Yes, but volume is cranked
#
aaronpk
"Implement stuff first, ask questions later"
#
aaronpk
makes sure the server stays on
#
gRegor`
Haha
#
aaronpk
(she's clicking a bunch of links in the wiki)
addal joined the channel
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gRegor`
Indieweb of the Rings
iandevlin joined the channel
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aaronpk
"indieweb is not getting everyone to use the same system"
#
aaronpk
"indieweb is about doing things your way"
#
kylewm
I had Coffivity playing in the background
#
kylewm
I did not understand how you guys could hear
#
aaronpk
hahahaha
#
danlyke
giggle.
#
gRegor`
rustles the bushes outside kylewm's window
#
benwerd_
kylewm: ha
#
aaronpk
benward______: your ssl cert expired!
#
kylewm.com
edited /User:Kylewm.com (+446) "/* Itches */"
(view diff)
#
@tef
it's weird when the indieweb history lesson pretends aol, compuserve didn't exist and the social network lockin is modern
(twtr.io/w7SmqfsXdf)
#
millette
and yacht clubs
#
@aaronpk
@tef Feel free to fill in some more information here! http://indiewebcamp.com/history
(twtr.io/w7T2hQu0PU)
#
aaronpk
oops haha
#
Loqi
[mention] Aaron Parecki commented '@tef Feel free to fill in some more information here! http://indiewebcamp.com/history' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/history (https://aaronparecki.com/replies/2015/02/11/3/)
#
@janl
RT @tef: it's weird when the indieweb history lesson pretends aol, compuserve didn't exist and the social network lockin is modern
(twtr.io/w7T7kCSyVL)
#
aaronpk
braces for live demo
snarfed joined the channel
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@adambrenecki
RT @tef: it's weird when the indieweb history lesson pretends aol, compuserve didn't exist and the social network lockin is modern
(twtr.io/w7TEbAotc6)
#
gRegor`
Way to break things, Twitter
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kylewm
indieauth supports last.fm??
mlncn-agaric joined the channel
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aaronpk
kylewm: lol yeah
#
kylewm
weird, cool
scor joined the channel
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aaronpk
soon eventbrite since they added rel=me to their profiles last week
#
aaronpk
aw the livestream is breaking up for me
#
@kevinmarks
RT @benwerd: Watching an #indieweb presentation at #techmeetup Edinburgh! http://new.livestream.com/accounts/8047110/events/3803239
(twtr.io/w7TZkpdHPC)
#
aaronpk
!tell rhiaro it looks like your site is being served from both http://www.rhiaro.co.uk/ and http://rhiaro.co.uk/ instead of having one redirect to the other, which is why your twitter indieauth login stopped working
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell her that when I see her next
#
@wirehead
RT @tef: it's weird when the indieweb history lesson pretends aol, compuserve didn't exist and the social network lockin is modern
(twtr.io/w7TianV_iD)
#
aaronpk
"They're a really friendly bunch, but they don't believe in mailing lists"
pauloppenheim joined the channel
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@aaronpk
#indieweb "They're a really friendly bunch, but they don't believe in mailing lists" @rhiaro
(twtr.io/w7TuzY3Zc4)
#
aaronpk
waves to the room
#
gRegor`
waves
#
aaronpk
that was great :)
#
gRegor`
Meme idea: "Mailing lists? I don't believe in them." http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_gifs/4564480/Rous
#
benwerd_
"Known is like WordPress for the indieweb." I'll take it.
#
@parody_bit
RT @tef: it's weird when the indieweb history lesson pretends aol, compuserve didn't exist and the social network lockin is modern
(twtr.io/w7U0ZozKFG)
#
benwerd_
Am resource-constrained but badly want to go to IndieWebCamp Edinburgh.
#
snarfed
benwerd++ yup that's praise
#
Loqi
benwerd has 55 karma
#
snarfed
known++
#
Loqi
known has 5 karma
#
gRegor`
Ah, don't die during q&a, livestream
#
@kevinmarks
RT @aaronpk: #indieweb "They're a really friendly bunch, but they don't believe in mailing lists" @rhiaro
(twtr.io/w7UNybufVs)
#
gRegor`
Question was about Bridgy handling groups.
#
@dch__
RT @tef: it's weird when the indieweb history lesson pretends aol, compuserve didn't exist and the social network lockin is modern
(twtr.io/w7UQzsrq6y)
#
gRegor`
Paging snarfed to Edinburgh
#
@tef
@benwerd fwiw alhough known has indieweb bits it does seem to try and be a low hassle way to self publish, which is neat
(twtr.io/w7UTqqTc1s)
#
snarfed
gRegor`: edinburgh, hell yeah! you can babysit my 5mo old for a week or so right? :P
#
snarfed
oh stream
#
aaronpk
easier
#
gRegor`
Hehe
#
snarfed
juggling her right now, unlikely
#
snarfed
ask here and i can try to answer
#
aaronpk
Q: "why is this indieweb and not just the web?"
#
snarfed
A: "correct!"
#
kylewm
australian accent
#
aaronpk
Q: "aren't you still dependent on the DNS system?"
cweiske joined the channel
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aaronpk
Q: "are there any recommendations on server hosting?"
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snarfed
A: "yes, just like you and pretty much everyone"
#
aaronpk
A: "no."
#
aaronpk
sorry to muddle that QA thread :)
#
aaronpk
A: "DNS is out of scope"
#
aaronpk
Q about private messaging
#
gRegor`
rhiaro++
#
Loqi
rhiaro has 10 karma
#
aaronpk
rhiaro++
#
Loqi
rhiaro has 11 karma
#
tbrb
rhiaro++
#
Loqi
dude
#
gRegor`
Heh "This website is under destruction. Check back soon for less green and more linked data. (And up to date blog posts)" http://rhiaro.co.uk/
#
gRegor`
That's too bad. I like the green.
#
kylewm
tbrb: welcome! are you at that meetup?
#
tbrb
I am indeed
#
tbrb
I've been lurking a little recently after speaking to rhiaro
#
tbrb
And just looking to get involved more when I start getting time to
#
gRegor`
Cool, tbrb. Welcome!
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gRegor`
Do you have a personal website?
#
@benwerd
You mean the latest masterpiece in indieweb storytelling from Known Inc's™ Ben Werdmuller™ and Erin Jo .. http://werd.io/2015/you-mean-the-latest-masterpiece-in-indieweb-storytelling-from-known
(twtr.io/w7VTru4buR)
#
@benwerd
You mean the latest masterpiece in indieweb storytelling from Known Inc's™ Ben Werdmuller™ and Erin Jo .. http://werd.io/2015/you-mean-the-latest-masterpiece-in-indieweb-storytelling-from-known
(twtr.io/w7VY_FN_ao)
#
tbrb
I do. I also have set up indie auth too :)
#
KartikPrabhu
gRegor`: is HWC on tonight?
#
Loqi
KartikPrabhu: tantek left you a message on 2/10 at 5:10pm: which version of RSS did you used to support?
#
gRegor`
Nice. You can add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people if you'd like. Then the chat logs can show your picture and link to you: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
#
gRegor`
KartikPrabhu: Yep. She'll either be there or hide a key for us.
#
gRegor`
There's a new lock.
#
gRegor`
So, fingers crossed. :)
#
KartikPrabhu
cool. yeah be careful
#
KartikPrabhu
tell tantek: I believe RSS2.0
#
tbrb
Cool gRegor`, I'll have a look at that when I get home
#
KartikPrabhu
bleh fail
#
KartikPrabhu
!tell tantek: I believe RSS2.0 . that is Django default
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
KitB and KevinMarks__ joined the channel
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rhiaro
aaronpk: ohh shouldn't have used www when I tried to log in. Guess it was just blind luck the others worked
#
Loqi
rhiaro: aaronpk left you a message 28 minutes ago: it looks like your site is being served from both http://www.rhiaro.co.uk/ and http://rhiaro.co.uk/ instead of having one redirect to the other, which is why your twitter indieauth login stopped working
#
rhiaro
I guess I usually don't use www
#
rhiaro
live demo panic
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
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aaronpk
well if you redirect one to the other (doesn't matter which way) then it'll work either way you enter it
#
rhiaro
it's getting a complete overhaul soon
#
rhiaro
New one was supposed to be up tonight but I had to spend that time fighting with another server instead
#
rhiaro
my current site is actually parsing a blogger rss feed :/
#
rhiaro
New one that runs on a triplestore (for reasons) is about ready :D
#
KitB
Are you serving through docker?
#
rhiaro
KitB: no, that one is going on shared hosting to prove a point
#
KitB
Oh of course. :P
#
tbrb
Aaron, regarding redirecting a site, would nginx just returning a 301 do?
#
rhiaro
tbrb: sounds right
#
snarfed
sharedhosting++
#
Loqi
sharedhosting has 1 karma
#
@bobbi_fox_SMR
RT @tef: it's weird when the indieweb history lesson pretends aol, compuserve didn't exist and the social network lockin is modern
(twtr.io/w7WhYjRvce)
#
tbrb
Ace, I'll swap my vhost config tonight too
#
snarfed
sysadmin--
#
Loqi
sysadmin has -1 karma
#
aaronpk
sysadmin--
#
Loqi
dude
#
aaronpk
hm maybe that should be sysadmining--
#
aaronpk
since i have nothing against sysadmins
#
aaronpk
in fact i appreciate them quite a bit because it means i dont have to do it
#
rhiaro
I forgot to mention indiehosters
#
snarfed
i love that karma is a mild black box, you often have to guess the word
#
aaronpk
that's ok, you managed to get quite a lot in there!
#
rhiaro
but sharedhosting-- because the server my site is on got ddosed the other week and was down for ages
#
rhiaro
but sharedhosting++ because I didn't have to deal with the problem myself
#
rhiaro
They never found out (or, at least, shared) who the target was, so if it had been one of my sites being on a shared server is great, but if it was someone else, then not so much
#
snarfed
rhiaro: out of curiosity, how would owning the os/hardware have inherently helped with the ddos?
#
rhiaro
I mean if someone else was the target of the ddos, they wouldn't have been on my server, so I wouldn't have been affected
#
snarfed
ahhhhhhh it was against someone else
#
rhiaro
sharing with other people increases the risk of being hit as a side effect
#
rhiaro
if it *had* been against me, then I'm glad I wasn't the one who had to fix it
#
snarfed
at least, sharing with poor isolation and multitenancy
#
snarfed
ok agreed
#
snarfed
multitenancy++
#
Loqi
multitenancy has 1 karma
#
rhiaro
yeah, your standard every-joe shared hosting
#
snarfed
puts down the karma and steps back
#
snarfed
eh, even then, many of them have pretty good isolation
#
snarfed
just not all
#
rhiaro
I dunno, I'm with a company I've been with for years
#
rhiaro
Since I bought my very first domain name!
#
rhiaro
I do most things on digital ocean droplets
#
rhiaro
just my personal site on shared host mostly
#
rhiaro
oh, we've had an offer of a venue for IWC Edi :)
#
@obra
@aaronpk @rhiaro Email is totally anti-#indieweb. Loose federation, open, interoperable protocols & 30+ year history of self-hosting. Ick!
(twtr.io/w7XZQRYcUY)
#
snarfed
what's the perfect chaser for a good old fashioned RSS debate?
#
snarfed
mailing list debate!
#
aaronpk
i think that debate ended quickly
#
snarfed
give it time
benwerd_ joined the channel
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@ScottMuc
RT @tef: it's weird when the indieweb history lesson pretends aol, compuserve didn't exist and the social network lockin is modern
(twtr.io/w7Z6eSpWsq)
#
gRegor`
aaronpk: I've noticed your dt-published <time> elements show a text cursor on hover in Firefox, but a pointer cursor in Chrome. I thought for a moment there weren't permalinks when I was browsing in Firefox.
#
aaronpk
oh odd
#
gRegor`
turning off ul .date { cursor: auto; } seems to bring back the pointer in Firefox
#
gRegor`
Link works fine of course. Just the cursor threw me off
#
aaronpk
yeah weird
#
aaronpk
i wonder why i added cursor: auto in the first place then
#
harryreeder.co.uk
edited /IRC_People (+100) "/* Nicknames */"
(view diff)
#
ben_thatmustbeme
tbrb++ welcome
#
Loqi
tbrb has 1 karma
#
tbrb
Thanks
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
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bret
HWC pdx tonight!
#
bret
should we start advertising event in the topic?
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aaronpk
oh i should make Loqi do that like he does for #pdxtech
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Loqi
who, me?
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bret
aaronpk: yeah!
benwerd_, interactivist and KevinMarks_ joined the channel
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KevinMarks
hm, lots of missing replies from brid.gy on http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/quiet-wadha-episode-45-of-tldr-that-has-been-supressed - fasle positives for having it linked last by others?
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KevinMarks
oh wait, brid.gy doesn't find direct links to posts, dose it only replie to my tweets
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snarfed
KevinMarks: correct
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snarfed
or at least related
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KevinMarks
maybe #51 needs splitting into sub-bugs
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@enquos
enquos system tour: https://www.youtube.com/ #ownyourdata #tracking #selftracking #health #fitness #nutrition #wellness #quantifiedself
(twtr.io/w7g3hydmbp)
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gRegor`
kylewm: I know it's early, but do you have stats on Woodwind? # of feeds, # of people using it?
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kylewm
gRegor`: 21 users have registered, subscribing to 67 feeds
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kylewm
no clue how many are active
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snarfed
21! awesome!
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snarfed
kylewm++
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Loqi
kylewm has 116 karma
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aaronpk
rwar i wanna work on mine soon!
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aaronpk
i'm just backlogged right now
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kylewm
9 users have subscribed to more than 2 feeds :)
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gRegor`
I'm using it more and more regularly.
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gRegor`
I haven't used a feed reader regularly since Google Reader died, and keep thinking I need to get going with one again.
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aaronpk
i've used feed readers since google reader... the twitter app, instagram app, indiewebcamp irc logs, ...
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gRegor`
Yeah yeah. By "reader" I mean "xml feed aggregator" :)
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KevinMarks
we just need to drop the xml part
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snarfed
kylewm: KevinMarks: looks like today's hwc may be quiet. should we bring laptops and plan to hack some?
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KevinMarks
sounds good
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KevinMarks
if we can iterate on reader/unmung/micropub stuff
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kylewm
oh looks like andi changed her mind :(
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snarfed
we should drag benwerd_ if he's around
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benwerd_
I'm definitely planning to come.
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Loqi
giggles
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KevinMarks
yay! - reader hacking, ben?
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Loqi
woot
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Blackwool
hi all, new here
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acegiak
Blackwool is my partner
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Blackwool
yus
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KevinMarks
hi blackwool
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Blackwool
hey :)
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Blackwool
I actually wanted to ask the group a few questions about indie web camp in general
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KevinMarks
please do
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Blackwool
I'm a documentarian and I have an opportunity to apply for some funding
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kylewm
(acegiak: your new style looks really nice!)
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benwerd_
KevinMarks: definitely game!
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Blackwool
and when Ace suggested I make a film about Indie Web and the battle for the social web I thought YES!
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acegiak
kylewm: thanks! I'm just playing with custom CSS on GWG's base mf2_s theme
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benwerd_
Blackwool: That sounds really exciting
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KevinMarks
Blackwool: we have some source material linked: http://indiewebcamp.com/videos_about_the_indieweb
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Blackwool
Awesome! (We have literally only just come up with the idea this morning, so it's very new and basic)
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Blackwool
but the brief is "open a conversation you think Australia should be having"
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Blackwool
and I feel like this really applies
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Blackwool
fantastic!
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Blackwool
I'll check it out!
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benwerd_
I don't have a notification of one
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acegiak
hmmm :/
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kylewm
Blackwool: did you still have questions? lost on the wiki? :)
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GWG
Kylewm, acegiak, glad you like it.
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GWG
I have a theme I am developing on it up at tiny.n9n.us
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Blackwool
Haha, yeah, sorry! currently watching a talk by Tantek Celik
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Blackwool
But very keen to hear any thoughts you have, I haven't quite worked out what I need to ask yet!
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kylewm
no worries! and no hurry
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KevinMarks
a lot of our videos are CC'd so, you should be able to reuse...
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Blackwool
oh! fantastic!
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acegiak
GWG: neat! a bit bold for my tastes
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Blackwool
I obviously would want to film a ton of new stuff, because that's what I like doing, but that would be very useful...
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acegiak
trying to keep certain kinds of posts unobtrusive
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GWG
Acegiak, it's a work in progress. Bold how?
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acegiak
GWG: It's good so far! The large block shapes and sharp clean lines
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KevinMarks
interesting comment about medium and Genius being the same underneath: https://medium.com/message/its-kind-of-cheesy-being-green-2c72cc9e5eda
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acegiak
GWG: does indieweb post kinds call webmention for response url?
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acegiak
or should I add that to my posse plugin?
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kylewm
KevinMarks: I was happier before I read that. didn't know iPhone users see my texts as second class citizens :(
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aaronpk
I have no explanation for why, but I find myself having the same opinion about the green bubbles