#indiewebcamp 2015-02-11

2015-02-11 UTC
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pdurbin poor Google Wave
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gRegor` Haha
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gRegor` In-person is the best way to have those conversations, of course. meetups, *camps, etc
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acegiak I feel like Google Wave's failure was the turning point for google's "Don't be evil" ethos
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Loqi acegiak: ben_thatmust left you a message 7 hours, 29 minutes ago: I just fixed the serious bug logging in and rebuilt MobilePub. Apparently its possible to have cordova apps to handle intents but there are bugs specifically with images, also there is a problem with it being a 3rd party plugin so phonegap-build won't work :( I may move back to just building it on my home machine then
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gRegor` And hey, IRC works pretty well :)
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Loqi acegiak: ben_thatmust left you a message 7 hours, 27 minutes ago: cordova dev is quite simple though, i'm sure you could make it do exactly what you want in minimal time.
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acegiak like they went "well being outright good isn't working"
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pdurbin IRC++
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Loqi IRC has 6 karma
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gRegor` Interesting. What was particularly evil about Wave, acegiak?
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acegiak no, I think wave was really good
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gRegor` What is Google Wave?
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acegiak and it's failure was what made them go down the facebook closed silo route with g+
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Google Wave" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Google+Wave&summary=%28prompted+by+gRegor`+https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-10/line/1423612948631%29
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gRegor` Aha, I see.
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gRegor` It was Wave, then Buzz, then g+ right?
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acegiak yeah
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acegiak though wave and buzz were pretty much the same time
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gregorlove.com created /Google_Wave (+31) "Redirected page to [[Google#Dead Silos]]" (view diff)
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acegiak but google wave was "a modern reinvention of email" with live convos, multiuser editing, total federation
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acegiak a lot of that tech got moved into things like google docs
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pdurbin "the death of email" TM
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gRegor` Yep. I remember it being pretty cool, though I never picked up using it a lot beyond toying with it with friends
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acegiak but when I did my presentation on it in uni I was so fuckin hyped about it
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gRegor` XMPP integration with it was cool
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acegiak I used it to organise a couple of uni group projects and it worked well
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gRegor` Back when Goog cared about XMPP
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acegiak yeah
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acegiak but they decided to drop it for their new closed ecosystem approach
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acegiak I used to want to work for google because they were inspiring. now I'd take a job at google because they're scary and I don't want to be in their way
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gRegor` Heh
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acegiak however, in good news, I got my posse working with xmlrpc posts
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snarfed benwerd_: maybe? what symptom are you seeing?
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benwerd_ snarfed: We've suddenly stopped processing verbs correctly. No changes from our end, so I'm poking at it a little. It looks like u-like-of (etc) aren't being discovered.
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snarfed acegiak: it's subjective, but that's not quite how wave and g+ evolved. (i worked there during them and know the histories)
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snarfed they were pretty independent. no one internally viewed wave as social
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snarfed also little to none of it went into docs
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snarfed arguably producs like https://quip.com/ are more the spiritual successors to wave
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acegiak snarfed: ok, fair enough. I'm just saying what it looked like for a wide eyed uni student
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snarfed acegiak: sure! happy to clarify.
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snarfed benwerd_: hmm. let me look at what got pushed today
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acegiak snarfed: are you storing your mf2 data in your post content or in metadata like GWG and I?
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snarfed acegiak: uh. on my site? i use the semantic-linkbacks plugin
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snarfed so whatever it does
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acegiak ok cool
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acegiak was just curious
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snarfed on an unrelated note, you may be interested in https://github.com/snarfed/wordpress-micropub when it's ready
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acegiak I certainly might be!
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acegiak or rather am!
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snarfed benwerd_: looking at a couple examples, and i think they're both ok and not changed much recently: https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/benwerd/565302012729122816/379983 , https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/benwerd/565302012729122816/565302713685397508
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benwerd_ ok
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benwerd_ the it's us somehow :) will continue to dig
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benwerd_ thanks!
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snarfed they have appropriate u-like-of and u-repost-of. maybe known now expects link text? those links don't have any
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snarfed gl
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snarfed !
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GWG I have returned
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acegiak snarfed: at least for the moment with xmlrpc posts posseing properly I can use the wordpress android app and my kupfer and thunar plugins again
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acegiak GWG: hail!
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snarfed nice!
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snarfed hey aaronpk, i'm trying to grok the micropub spec. a few qs (no hurry)…
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GWG Hail acegiak
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snarfed 1. do you distinguish an update from a create by the presence of the 'url' param?
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snarfed 2. what identifies a delete request?
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aaronpk 1 yes
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aaronpk ben_thatmust: you did deletes right?
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snarfed maybe DELETE verb?
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snarfed or is it all POST
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aaronpk all post
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GWG Snarfed, what are you thinking in terms of design?
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aaronpk ah we were gonna do action=delete
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aaronpk and action=update
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aaronpk to be more explicit
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snarfed GWG: little to none
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aaronpk there aren't a lot of implementations of updates and deletes yet :)
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snarfed ok
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snarfed should i use the action param then?
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GWG Snarfed, I meant how will the plugin work?
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snarfed ben_thatmust: if you're one of the farthest ahead on micropub implementation, mind fleshing out the wiki page a little?
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GWG There are dozens of POSSE options, how do you code for that?
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GWG POSSE action hook?
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snarfed GWG: hmm i don't quite follow. it implements the micropub spec. first pass will have no token mgmt, register a single url endpoint, and handle CRUD on it
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snarfed GWG: i don't plan to implement syndication anytime soon
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aaronpk you don't have to POSSE to support micropub
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GWG Aaronpk, agreed.
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snarfed GWG: i guess i could describe it as, iterative design instead of up front
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snarfed (ie lazy and design as little as possible)
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GWG Snarfed, my suggestion would be if you add the right hooks, others could add that without you
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snarfed GWG: sure!
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snarfed hooks can be added anytime
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aaronpk doesn't wordpress already have all the hooks you'd need?
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aaronpk like an after-save or something
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snarfed probably
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GWG That was what I meant by design
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aaronpk the micropub plugin is really just going to be creating posts
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snarfed ok. i'll still go with punting then. easy to add hooks later
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GWG Snarfed, next question... How will you do replies?
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snarfed aaronpk: i assume there's no action=create?
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snarfed GWG: that seems orthogonal/out of scope, right?
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aaronpk correct
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acegiak yeah. that's not really part of micropub?
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GWG Are you only doing straight notes?
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aaronpk the micropub request for a reply will contain an in-reply-to URL
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aaronpk how do you post replies right now in wordpress?
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acegiak see here's the thing, GWG and I both store our reply metadata differently
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snarfed these all sound like great things for me to punt on
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GWG Aaronpk, through plugin. Nothing built in
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aaronpk well v1 should be able to post notes, and even if that's all that launches that's a great start
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GWG acegiak: Back to hooks
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aaronpk acegiak: GWG: do you store likes the same way?
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acegiak I've stopped storing likes with my weird little plugin setup
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acegiak but I think I might switch to using GWG's plugin so we can build a nice wordpress ecosystem
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aaronpk GWG: maybe this could plug in to the "post kinds" plugin
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GWG Acegiak, what is your design now?
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aaronpk so the micropub plugin would know about all the stuff post kinds knows
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GWG Aaronpk, I am hoping.
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acegiak I think post kinds is a good way to go
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aaronpk and if you don't have the post kinds plugin then you can still use the micropub plugin to create regular notes
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GWG I learned from Pfefferle's response to my queries. Which was, "I'll put in a hook or a filter and you can build the rest yourself."
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acegiak at the moment I'm just using the old method of separate meta fields for context target context quote and context title
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acegiak also: Did I show the wordpress peeps this: https://github.com/acegiak/prepopPost ?
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GWG So, whatever snarfed builds I plan to be there proposing where to add the extension options
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snarfed great!
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GWG First I've seen it
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acegiak has made life a lot easier for getting things into the post editor window
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GWG Acegiak, may give it a shot.
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acegiak sorry it's not well documented yet
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GWG Acegiak, anything that I should know?
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acegiak I don't think so. the js file is small enough to be understandable
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snarfed this would be easier if i knew php
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snarfed but that's never stopped me from writing plenty of php before
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snarfed so here goes
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acegiak you don't need ot know php to write php
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snarfed quite
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aaronpk lol
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GWG Snarfed, you are still a better PHP programmer than I am
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snarfed hah i doubt that, but htanks
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GWG I learned to write programs in BASIC and PASCAL
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aaronpk i learned BASIC too!
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aaronpk it took me a while to realize that variables could be more than 1 letter long, because all the examples in the reference book had single-letter variable names
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aaronpk i was like "hm strange, what happens if my program gets really long and i need more than 26 variables!"
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GWG I assume, aaronpk, that you stayed in programming after that.
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kylewm https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38780898/i-know-php.jpg
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kylewm it took me months maybe years of writing qbasic to find the Edit > New Sub menu
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GWG Kylewm, how did you find your talk with the RSS guy?
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kylewm GWG: starts here https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/565211528807186434
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@kevinmarks @julien51 @davewiner @t @aaronpk indieweb builds on RSS by remapping it to HTML - Dave, markup with h-entry. http://www.unmung.com/feed?feed=http%3A%2F%2Fliveblog.co%2Fusers%2Fdavewiner%2Frss.xml (twitter.com/_/status/565211528807186434)
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ben_thatmust aaronpk, snarfed http://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub-brainstorming#Explicit_CRUD
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ben_thatmust thats how i do it
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snarfed ben_thatmust++ yay thx
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Loqi ben_thatmust has 6 karma
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Loqi [bridgy] Bill Seitz replied '.@kevinmarks @julien51 @davewiner @t @aaronpk Which RSS-era readers will accept such a non-RSS feed?' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/reader (https://twitter.com/BillSeitz/status/565310795698159616)
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GWG Kylewm, I wasn't speaking literally.
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GWG I was speaking figuratively
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aaronpk ben_thatmust: would you consider "action" instead of "operation"? it seems better somehow
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kylewm GWG: oh sorry :) it was a little nerve wracking, and a little frustrating for someone to say "we could interop if you would just listen to me and do things my way", but generally cool
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GWG Kylewm, I keep learning abound here how much room there is for flexibility, but we are trying to create a common language
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GWG Someone is bound to disagree on something
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snarfed and then we crush them
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snarfed ducks
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GWG Snarfed, usually Tantek convinces me I'm not seeing things from the broader perspective, whether or not I agree with his point of view.
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GWG Sometimes it is someone else.
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GWG But that is a good thing. Nome of should be too wrapped up in our own opinion
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GWG So, someone thinks that RSS is the right path. I believe otherwise. But I will support both standards for now
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kylewm if i could post likes and comments on winer's blog using RSS i'd do it, if i could post them on pump.io using AS2.0 I'd do it... it's all plumbing
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kylewm jinx
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gRegor` snarfed++ for "these all sound like great things for me to punt on"
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Loqi snarfed has 80 karma
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GWG I support RSS because I already support it. If I had to maintain it, I am not sure if I would
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kylewm gRegor`: you read that in Triumph's voice?
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gRegor` Hahaha
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gRegor` I did now.
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GWG I support feed by email because I can't get my relatives to read my site. If enough people are interested, I want to engage with them. That is what I like about POSSE
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snarfed huh. RSS/Atom feeds as a form of POSSE is an interesting framing
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tantek.com edited /Atom (+347) "/* IndieWeb implementations */ examples, subsections, move projects to separate section" (view diff)
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kylewm snarfed: I tried that... tantek didn't buy it
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tantek.com edited /RSS () "(-654) change Problems to Issues (under the assumption that they're resolvable), move Barnaby's example to Atom (since he has no RSS feed), move Projects to its own higher level section" (view diff)
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GWG Snarfed, no one has told me why RSS is better than markup
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acegiak GWG: it's potentially less heavy
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KevinMarks hahaha
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tantek acegiak - or potentially more heavy as some of us have found with Atom
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tantek GWG, keep asking that question
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GWG People want feed readers still, but do people need RSS for that?
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kylewm lol that's when tantek said my question was "the best illustration of feed-framing-blinders I have seen"
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snarfed GWG: imho *right now* RSS is better because of the ecosystem
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snarfed everything supports it
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snarfed when indie readers etc are more mature, that will go away
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GWG A feed reader delivers me a summary. I still visit the main site to get the content. Where is the lightness?
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kylewm http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-05-22#t1400785287000
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KevinMarks curl http://liveblog.co/users/davewiner/rss.xml | wc
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snarfed kylewm: heh yeah. the framing doesn't hold together for long…but cute while it lasts
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KevinMarks 467 6608 51259
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KevinMarks curl http://www.unmung.com/feed?feed=http%3A%2F%2Fliveblog.co%2Fusers%2Fdavewiner%2Frss.xml | wc
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KevinMarks 720 3235 25587
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snarfed kylewm: i love that tantek claimed to be shocked by the idea
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KevinMarks about half the size
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snarfed *shocked*, he tells you
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snarfed still, fair point
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GWG The people who didn't reply to me before still aren't going to with or without RSS
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snarfed lots of people read but don't reply
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acegiak GWG: I'm doing it. I'm installing post kinds
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acegiak I'm gonna add legacy support code to my theme
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GWG acegiak++
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acegiak so I don't have to touch my old metadata
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Loqi acegiak has 7 karma
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snarfed wonders why he's participating in a feed debate
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tantek snarfed, slow night?
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tantek ;)
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GWG Acegiak, can I have a review?
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acegiak you can when I've played with it
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tantek snarfed, I'm trying to focus on documenting facts that are coming up in the debate
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GWG Acegiak, exactly
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snarfed tantek: you're a better man than me
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tantek e.g. https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/565223702917156866
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@kartik_prabhu Just dropped my RSS feed. Will keep Atom around for a while. (https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/no-rss) (twitter.com/_/status/565223702917156866)
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tantek snarfed, maybe I'm lazier?
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snarfed doubtful
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gRegor` Haha
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tantek !tell KartikPrabhu which version of RSS did you used to support?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG So, assuming the issue is the heaviness of the full html feed, how do you address that?
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tantek GWG, assumption rejected without personal metrics
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acegiak so post kinds is a fork of custom taxonomy isnt it?
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tantek since clearly we're having widely different results
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gRegor` GWG "A feed reader delivers me a summary" That's if the feed creator is making it a summary-only feed. Aren't they likely to do the same if they adopt mf2? Since they're so greedy for the clicks, heh
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acegiak so I should get rid of custom taxonomy
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KevinMarks the wataerpig parser is barfing on tantek's page
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tantek ^^^ GWG, FAQs for "IndieWeb Kinds Plugin" ?
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KevinMarks https://waterpigs.co.uk/services/microformats-to-atom/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com
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tantek KevinMarks, as the CSS WG and W3C Publications Process folks have grown fond of telling me this week, I'm apparently quite good at breaking things (unintentionally of course)
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tantek KevinMarks: can you file a github issue against that service?
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KevinMarks no, it's no open source
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tantek huh
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tantek perhaps leave him a !tell ?
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KevinMarks !tell barnabywalters https://waterpigs.co.uk/services/microformats-to-atom/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com seems to mis out all the h-entry's
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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gRegor` I think Barnaby is already aware. https://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4_bL4R/
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GWG Acegiak, yes
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GWG Tantek, biggest question... What the heck is this?
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tantek GWG, "this" in the immediate context is chat in IRC.
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tantek.com edited /RSS (+325) "/* Shutdowns */ explicitly note Kartik since he distinguished RSS vs Atom" (view diff)
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acegiak GWG: wheres your base theme?
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tantek.com edited /RSS (+399) "/* Issues */ Ambiguous Usage" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /RSS (+923) "Criticism / Causes Plumbing Misfocus, how to solve/escape" (view diff)
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pdurbin snarfed: nice to see "legacy" changed to "proven" on the RSS page: http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=RSS&diff=17312&oldid=17304
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snarfed pdurbin: all tantek, not me
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snarfed (but i approve)
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GWG irt1904
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pdurbin oh. duh. good edit, tantek
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GWG Oops. Typing that somewhere else
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GWG acegiak: https://github.com/dshanske/mf2_s
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GWG tantek: I was referring to your FAQ Post Kinds question.
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tantek hmm - not sure I made that edit
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tantek but I'm good with the natural collaborative evolution of this page
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tantek hmm - who is Www.ouvre-boite.com ?
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tantek that's who made the edit
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tantek ah that's Julien Genestoux
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tantek.com created /User:Www.ouvre-boite.com (+85) "stub with an h-card" (view diff)
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tantek pdurbin it was Julien Genestoux
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pdurbin ok. I find `git blame` easier for this stuff :)
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tantek pdurbin - I like the "History" link myself :)
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pdurbin to each his/her own
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acegiak GWG: what do I need to do to get make multikind posts be a thing?
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snarfed ok wordpress people! it's *barely* working, but it's working, at least for create. feel free to try it out. https://github.com/snarfed/wordpress-micropub
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GWG acegiak: File Issue?
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GWG I'll consider unofficial support.
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snarfed.org edited /Micropub (+102) "/* Response */ undelete" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /RSS (+265) "clarify RSS is not a singular format, nor is "RSS/Atom", varying degrees of adoption/usage/openness" (view diff)
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GWG I think it is easier as a single thing, but I'll find a way to make it work under the hood
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tantek pdurbin - I tried to be more precise with the wording re: RSS - please feel free to further improve the wording
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acegiak I don't see how "repost and comment" makes sense as two separate posts rather than one single multiverb post
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GWG Repost and reply?
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GWG I don't have comment
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tantek acegiak: they happen at two different points in time, with different keystrokes / mouse-clicks, thus they are different human events
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tantek thus different posts
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tantek also - common practice
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tantek typical sites treat them as separate posts
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tantek so that's the user model people are used to
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tantek there's two reasons
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snarfed tantek: not always, facebook is an example of both as a single action
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tantek 1. temporally distinct actions = distinct posts
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acegiak except tumblr and facebook?
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tantek 2. established user model
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tantek snarfed: do you mean share + comment?
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snarfed eh fb may or may not be. you comment on the repost, but it doesn't show up as a comment on the original post, so maybe not
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tantek right
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tantek share comments are very confusing
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snarfed meh
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acegiak also I'm reposting largely to give context to my reply
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tantek and kind of annoying if you're the original poster
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tantek allows people to hijack comments on your post
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snarfed same w/g+
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tantek acegiak - "reposting largely to give context to my reply" - that's called a /reply-context !
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tantek not a repost
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tantek hey gRegor` your example doesn't look very indiewebby: http://indiewebcamp.com/RSS#gRegor_Morrill
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tantek your usage of feedburner is more like POSSEing to feedburner rather than actually being an IndieWeb Example of RSS yourself
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acegiak for my ux flow I have a post in my feed reader, I hit a button to bring up my response box, it prepopulates the quote field, I then optionally add a comment and/or tick a "like" box?
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acegiak those are three verbs happening at the same time
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acegiak that way I don't have to show the reply context on my site twice for comment and like
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ben_thatmust aaronpk, i think i can agree, action makes more sense
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ben_thatmust !tell aaronpk I agree action is better, i remember why i avoided it, to not confuse it with action="POST" on the form
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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snarfed acegiak: tantek: we've had this conversation before, right? combined and separate reply/repost/like/etc are both ok, right?
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acegiak yeah we have
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acegiak and we came to the same conclusion
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snarfed good
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GWG I'm willing to support multikind. I just found it was not the more common use case, so it shouldn't be the default behavior.
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snarfed k wordpress-micropub supports update and delete now
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snarfed …and now i'll stop narrating my commits :P
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acegiak why?
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GWG snarfed: I'm enjoying it.
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acegiak it's like livetweeting
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snarfed heh thx
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ben_thatmust snarfed, did you use action=delete
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ben_thatmust i want to update my client to do the same
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snarfed ben_thatmust: it supports both action= and operation=
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ben_thatmust i'm going to swap over to action=
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ben_thatmust its a minor confusion
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ben_thatmust i don't think it will be a problem
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kylewm food for thought, would you consider using a single letter for the action param to distinguish it from a property that is being posted? h=type, o=operation
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /Micropub-brainstorming (-12) "/* Explicit CRUD */ migrate operation= to action=" (view diff)
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acegiak GWG: running indieweb post kinds with mf2_s getting these:
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acegiak GET http://acegiak.net/wp-content/plugins/indieweb-post-kinds/kind.min.css.map 404 (Not Found) (index):24
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acegiak GET http://acegiak.net/wp-content/themes/mf2_s-master/site.min.css.map 404 (Not Found)
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ben_thatmust hmmm, kylewm, i suppose we could, but i don't see the point. it just makes it harder to read
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snarfed hey wordpress people, do any of you know how to get an http header from the current request?
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snarfed can't find it for the life of me
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ben_thatmust the h= i can forgive because it fits well with mf2
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ben_thatmust but i don't think you want to go down the road of shorthanding every field name
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kylewm ben_thatmust: as it is, it's a mix of content and control parameters in one flat hierarchy... what if i hypothetically wanted to publish a "p-action" field in my post
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kylewm the "action" parameter is already taken
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kylewm (that is to say, I'm not just suggesting shortening it because it's easier to type)
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acegiak snarfed: pretty sure that you can get it just the php way unless wordpress is specifically blocking that? http://php.net/manual/en/function.getallheaders.php
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snarfed oh, php has some global knowledge of "the current http request"?
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snarfed wow ok
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acegiak also: wordpress has this: http://codex.wordpress.org/Function_Reference/wp_get_http_headers
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kylewm i think that function specifically doesn't exist in nginx -- we had to shim one in for Known if i remember correctly?
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acegiak but that's different
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snarfed acegiak: yeah, i saw that one, it makes a separate external http HEAD request
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ben_thatmust kylewm, i think its better to do what is logical now, don't plan for things that may never happen
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kylewm gone already :( https://elliottucker.net/2014/setting-up-known-with-nginx-indieweb
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kylewm ben_thatmust: also I'm repeating the argument that aaronpk made when I asked him why it was "h" instead of "type"
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ben_thatmust if anything i would say you prefix any control params with something
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kylewm snarfed: acegiak: here's the shim they added to Known https://github.com/idno/Known/blob/master/Idno/Pages/File/View.php#L25
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kylewm ben_thatmust: yeah I'd be down with prefixing too
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snarfed kylewm++ whee thanks
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Loqi kylewm has 115 karma
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kylewm snarfed: maybe just use $_SERVER directly?
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snarfed i abdicate any such decision
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ben_thatmust kylewm, i'd like to hear aaronpk weigh in on this..... now that i converted entirely to action already :P
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ben_thatmust prefixing would clean things up a lot though
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ben_thatmust specifically if we get in to the other ideas of removing fields and things of that nature that are in the brainstorming page
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GWG acegiak: Thinking about design. I have an idea.
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GWG .map? Why does it need that?
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aaronpk hi again
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Loqi aaronpk: ben_thatmust left you a message 36 minutes ago: I agree action is better, i remember why i avoided it, to not confuse it with action="POST" on the form
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aaronpk man i'm afk for an hour and snarfed already has a working micropub endpoint for wordpress??
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ben_thatmust but there is plenty more talk after that
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acegiak http://acegiak.net/
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acegiak do you get the error loading that up?
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snarfed aaronpk: don't get too excited
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snarfed (but yes)
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kylewm acegiak: what has happened!!
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ben_thatmust aaronpk, indieweb moves pretty fast, if you don't stop to look around once in a while, you might just miss it
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acegiak kylewm: I'm fiddling
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GWG acegiak: I'm not sure what happened. It's meant to be a blank theme.
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme++ for excellent ferris bueller reference
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme has 42 karma
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ben_thatmust haha
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acegiak oh I think a plugin is fucking it, gimme a sec
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Loqi ahahahaha
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GWG acegiak: I can add the map file.
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kylewm Loqi you have a puerile sense of humor
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Loqi grins profusely
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GWG It shouldn't need it. it is a product of SASS
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ben_thatmust snarfed, now just need to test MobilePub to wordpress :D
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aaronpk okay let me read scrollback...
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aaronpk yes the reason for h=entry in micropub was because "h=entry" looks similar to "h-entry" as well as it being very unlikely that anyone would want to set a property on their post called "h"
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GWG acegiak: If you are interested, I'm build a full theme.
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acegiak GWG: I'm gonna child theme it up for the moment
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acegiak GWG: should a .map file have been generated?
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ben_thatmust waits for aaronpk to catch up fully
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GWG acegiak: It is generated, but the error doesn't appear on my site.
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acegiak how does it get generated?
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acegiak is sass a thing I need to install?
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aaronpk i suppose it may make sense to prefix all micropub parameters
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GWG I could add it to the package, if you want. But it isn't on my production site, and it runs without asking for it.
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ben_thatmust mp_action
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aaronpk hyphen but maybe yeah
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ben_thatmust mp-action=
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aaronpk or hd-action
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aaronpk :P
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aaronpk since h is an upside-down µ and d is an upside-down p
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acegiak GWG: don't add it to the package. I'll try and work out why it's asking
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GWG I'm new to SASS
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ben_thatmust i'm missing something there
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aaronpk µ=micro
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ben_thatmust then it would be dh
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aaronpk nah flip hd vertically
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aaronpk oops hb
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ben_thatmust or thats just silly
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aaronpk it is in fact silly
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aaronpk but I always assumed that's why h was used in the first place
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ben_thatmust haha
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ben_thatmust so, i think mp-action is something that makes a good amount of sense
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ben_thatmust and any newer micropub specific things would just be mp-
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aaronpk i agree
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ben_thatmust i use type= to specify what type i want to post it as (i know your dislike of it) but i can change that to mp-type
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aaronpk you use h= also tho right?
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ben_thatmust yes, but its always only h=post
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aaronpk h=entry you mean I hope
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snarfed kylewm: ok, first pass at wp micropub plugin is done. ready to port https://github.com/snarfed/ownyourresponses to micropub! :P
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ben_thatmust yeah
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ben_thatmust h=entry
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ben_thatmust honestly its always set and i didn't really see any other values
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ben_thatmust other than like h=recipe, but i'm not there yet
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ben_thatmust or card, which will be useful when i get in to storing contacts and things
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aaronpk yeah that's what it's for
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aaronpk the reason i don't like type= is because it doesn't correspond to anything in microformats
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ben_thatmust would that mean syndicate-to should actually be mp-syndicate-to ?
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk and on the brainstorming page, we'd have mp-remove-field
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aaronpk oh don't forget about h=event
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ben_thatmust i'm going to wait on using syndicate-to as that has been implemented fairly wider already
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ben_thatmust mp-h=event?
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aaronpk which is probably the next one to happen
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aaronpk no, for creating events
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ben_thatmust oh
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ben_thatmust yeah, i saw that too
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aaronpk and h=card for creating venues before checking in to them
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aaronpk snarfed: this is not a good idea to do in PHP https://github.com/snarfed/wordpress-micropub/blob/d3bdc433ee019d3968be6c195b0384cba5ffe36b/micropub.php#L68
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acegiak GWG: so how do I make it so that posts with no kind are displayed?
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aaronpk imagine what happened if I sent a request with wp=1
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aaronpk you should use $_POST instead, unless there is a Wordpress way of fetching post parameters
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Loqi +1
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acegiak wordpress messes with those fields sometimes though
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aaronpk with $_POST?
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acegiak I've had trouble with it in the past
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aaronpk k then do `parse_str($content, $params);` instead, so you set the variables in the $params array
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aaronpk the fact that php still allows you to set local variables from http post data is sad
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aaronpk i'm happy to send a PR real quick :)
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GWG acegiak: They should be displayed.
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acegiak gwg: yeah, I just created a new one and it is
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acegiak so why aren't old posts displaying...
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acegiak hmmm
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GWG acegiak: It did in my tests. Maybe I missed something.
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acegiak no I just posted a new post with no kind throug xmlrpc and it showed up was fine
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GWG I was trying to make it so everything had a kind. But it defaults to thinking it is a note if it has no kind, for backward compatibility.
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snarfed aaronpk: thanks. that part was copied verbatim from the webmention plugin.
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acegiak yeah that makes sense
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aaronpk oboy
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snarfed exactly :(
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aaronpk this should work https://github.com/snarfed/wordpress-micropub/pull/3
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acegiak GWG: Call to undefined function get_linkbacks_number() in /pile/serv/wp-content/themes/mf2_s-master/inc/entry-meta.php on line 130,
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GWG acegiak: It's a Semantic Linkbacks function. You must have an older version.
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aaronpk attempts to send a bad webmention
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acegiak ahhhh
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acegiak version from the wordpress directory?
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GWG acegiak: Github repo. I think pfefferle hasn't updated.
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /Micropub-brainstorming (+12) "/* Explicit CRUD */ using mp-action now" (view diff)
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aaronpk well luckily the webmention plugin doesn't actually use the $wp variable
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aaronpk i'm still going to send a PR for it
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acegiak eeyyyyyyy. all my posts are displaying!
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GWG acegiak: That good or bad?
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ben_thatmust my site now all swapped off to mp-type and mp-action as well as MobilePub
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acegiak good!
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kylewm aaronpk: ben_thatmust: wow did you decide "mp-type" instead of "h"?
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ben_thatmust kylewm no
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aaronpk i was assuming he was using mp-type for things like photo vs reply
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ben_thatmust h=entry,mp-type=checkin
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ben_thatmust yeah, exactly
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aaronpk ben_thatmust: what happens when you post a reply that has a photo?
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ben_thatmust its a photo, reply isn't a basic type for me
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ben_thatmust its a photo that happens to have a in-reply-to
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aaronpk interesting
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aaronpk see all this feels like internals that don't matter to publishers or consumers
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aaronpk in the end you publish an h-entry post with a bunch of properties
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ben_thatmust yes and no, so for me actually note vs article is a difference of encoding (articles are written in html with an <hr> to define the break for the short version) but notes are just text
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ben_thatmust honestly i think thats the most important piece
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ben_thatmust i use it to determine checkin vs note, which is a minor distinction, i could eliminate one of those types
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tantek snarfed - yes re: multi-type post or multiple posts. I think we're continuing the discussion and trying to capture / express how both models could make sense or make sense to different people.
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GWG acegiak: The plugin needs more work. It is so far good enough. BUt it needs to be better
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ben_thatmust and i use it for rsvp, but i don't need it for that, i have fields that would be unique for it
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aaronpk I guess it's only needed if it is somehow possible for two different kinds of posts to have the same properties
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aaronpk and if they have the same properties then why are they different kinds of posts
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ben_thatmust basically yes
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aaronpk but i would be curious if there are any examples
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ben_thatmust organization
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ben_thatmust also presentation
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ben_thatmust i may include gps co-ordinates on a note, but its not a checkin to a location
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ben_thatmust whereas i might check-in to a location, with a brief text attached to it
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aaronpk that's where i'm not clear yet on the distinction as well, mostly around what makes something a checkin, and is that really important
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ben_thatmust and i want the presentation different on those
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Loqi gives ben_thatmust the presentation different on those
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ben_thatmust glares a loqi
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Loqi dude
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ben_thatmust the focus of a note is the text, the focus of a checkin is the location, with a checkin i show a map, with text below it, with a note i show text with a link to a geo-coords
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tantek reads logs
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aaronpk great, can you post screenshots of both examples ot the wiki?
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ben_thatmust not right now, i'm about to head to bed. but think of it as "Dude this garden is cool" vs "I'm at XYZ Bar, try the turkey club"
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kylewm had to read that multiple times before i figured out you meant the sandwich and not the turkey nightclub
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ben_thatmust oh, heh
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tantek haha that's hilarious
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tantek ben_thatmust: did you get the follow-up about your invited expert application?
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tantek I think there's some more form filling out you need to do
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ben_thatmust checks his spam folder
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ben_thatmust no
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ben_thatmust okay, headed to bed
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ben_thatmust i'll keep an eye out for in tantek
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aaronpk good night!
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Loqi buenas noches
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@dnnr RT @new_wp_plugins: New #WordPress plugin: indieweb-post-kinds- https://wordpress.org/plugins/indieweb-post-kinds/ Allows you to reply/like/RSVP etc to another site fr… (twitter.com/_/status/565354251917209601)
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tantek ben_thatmust: yes you should have already received an email - from Sandro I think.
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tantek has caught up on logs for today
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acegiak GWG: hell yeah! that 'header_entry_meta' hook made it so easy to get my legacy response data to display without having to modify theme files
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acegiak nice work!
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acegiak GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 69 karma
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GWG acegiak: Each revision gets better. This is my fourth theme rewrite
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acegiak you're a machine
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GWG acegiak: No, I'm obsessive compulsive. Not clinically, but...
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GWG I want to get it 'right'
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GWG I don't think I'm there.
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acegiak now I just need to update my posse plugin to work with your metadata structure
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GWG acegiak: I want things to work simply, and they aren't there yet.
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acegiak yeah simplicity is complex
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gRegor` aaronpk, acegiak, snarfed: WordPress *always* adds slashes to $_POST, regardless of magic_quotes_gpc setting *AND* will continue to do so even though magic quotes is removed as of PHP 5.4
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gRegor` File under: WordPress is freaking stupid.
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gRegor` See also: http://codex.wordpress.org/Function_Reference/stripslashes_deep
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acegiak gRegor`: I learned to just put my head down and use wordpresses provided interfaces
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gRegor` It's bad coding practice.
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GWG Ditto. Choose your battles.
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gRegor` strip slashes and properly escape $_POST data
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gRegor` I have no illusions about changing WordPress. Just pointing it out.
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GWG gRegor`: The issue is WordPress's stubborn insistence on not breaking things
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gRegor` Yep. It's mentioned in the notes on that codex page
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GWG gRegor`: It's why they won't dump XMLRPC when JSON comes in.
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GWG Although that is rather behind.
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tantek gRegor`: what do you think of recategorizing your use of Feedburner as a form of POSSE rather than actual IndieWeb RSS? (since the URL is not at your domain)
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gRegor` *shrug*
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gRegor` I'm actually working on migrating that back to my own domain currently.
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acegiak GWG: ok so how do I get the response data from your system? I'm just updating my posse plugin now
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GWG It's stored as an array in metadata.
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tantek gRegor`: what are the reasons to use your own domain for RSS vs. using Feedburner? or using both?
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gRegor` tantek: I confirmed and the feed I publish on my site is RSS 2.0, which Feedburner, I believe, converts to Atom.
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gRegor` Feedburner was something I set-and-forget back in the day, when it was popular and beloved. And it worked well.
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gRegor` It's basically been stagnant and I'd rather move it back to my domain before it just disappears one day.
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tantek what is FeedBurner?
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Loqi FeedBurner is a service that aggregates feeds and provides analytics to publishers https://indiewebcamp.com/FeedBurner
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GWG acegiak: You could also try get_kind_response($post_ID)
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acegiak GWG: a repost kind doesn't save response url or the title?
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GWG They all save identically, or should.
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acegiak hmm, apparently none are saving titles or URLS...
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acegiak maybe my legacy plugin is getting in the way
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acegiak ok yeah it was collisions
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acegiak all fixed
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acegiak yay
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Loqi giggles
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GWG acegiak: Let me test and see if it is working for me. I don't think I broke anything.
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acegiak GWG: I fixed it
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acegiak my plugin for displaying my legacy posts was hijacking hte action
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GWG acegiak: Okay
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kylewm I feel like I should know this... as a "developer" of a facebook app, do I still have to file for a review before the app can publish to my page?
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kylewm i didn't have to for redwind, but the api has changed since then, and now it's not working for a Known i'm setting up for my partner
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snarfed kylewm: to your page? or your profile?
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snarfed and you have to ask for the right scopes regardless, it will just always give them to you if you own the app
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kylewm ah great
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kylewm to my page i guess
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kylewm timeline? wall?
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snarfed oh, i mean, fb page vs user
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kylewm oh oh sorry, user profile thing
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snarfed yeah. then just make sure you ask for publish_actions?
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kylewm snarfed++ thanks that worked!
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Loqi snarfed has 81 karma
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snarfed yay
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kylewm i had an outdated version of the known code that wasn't asking for all the perms
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tantek.com edited /rsvp (+366) "stub Brainstorming with intent for the section similar to /like" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /rsvp (+234) "/* Brainstorming */ some value/prose possibilities to consider" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /rsvp (+139) "/* Brainstorming */ Remote variants" (view diff)
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kgoon.asia edited /How_to_set_up_web_sign-in_on_your_own_domain-ko (+32) "/* 1. 당신의 홈페이지에 다양한 소셜 프로필을 연결합니다. */" (view diff)
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kgoon.asia edited /How_to_set_up_web_sign-in_on_your_own_domain-ko (+11) "/* 1. 당신의 홈페이지에 다양한 소셜 프로필을 연결합니다. */" (view diff)
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snarfed.org edited /Micropub (+111) "/* Open Source */ wordpress plugin" (view diff)
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snarfed.org edited /WordPress_Plugins (+131) "micropub plugin" (view diff)
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acegiak everything appears to be working with your plugin, now GWG
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GWG acegiak: Great.
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acegiak I've made a couple of small changes which I'll submit on github
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GWG acegiak: Great.
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acegiak GWG: pull request there for you
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GWG Okay. Will look at it tomorrow. Near bed here
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@sampullara @kevinmarks indieweb @t are owners too (twitter.com/_/status/565406338369748992)
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pfefferle good morning all
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acegiak pfefferle: morning
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@hamishcampbell The openweb... Tantek Celik, "Why We Need the IndieWeb", #PDF14: https://www.youtube.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/565429038811185152)
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KevinMarks btw http://netgainchallenge.org/ find the indieweb one
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@bookprescom 8 Mobile Landing Pages Get Spanked for Conversion’s Sake >> http://www.searchenginejournal.com/?p=123651&utm_content=buffer44020&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #SocialMedia Tip from Casey Ark. #SelfPublish #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/565465356899450881)
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@sandeepshetty Facebook suspending Native Americans over ‘fake’ names http://rt.com/usa/231187-facebook-suspending-native-americans/ #indieweb #ownyouridentity (twitter.com/_/status/565476221992304641)
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@elfpavlik RT @sandeepshetty: Facebook suspending Native Americans over ‘fake’ names http://rt.com/usa/231187-facebook-suspending-native-americans/ #indieweb #ownyouridentity (twitter.com/_/status/565482331377762306)
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GWG Good morning all
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ben_thatmust !tell tantek no e-mail from Sandro or anyone else
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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@thierrymarianne RT @sandeepshetty: Facebook suspending Native Americans over ‘fake’ names http://rt.com/usa/231187-facebook-suspending-native-americans/ #indieweb #ownyouridentity (twitter.com/_/status/565492379726381057)
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@YannPdeM RT @sandeepshetty: Facebook suspending Native Americans over ‘fake’ names http://rt.com/usa/231187-facebook-suspending-native-americans/ #indieweb #ownyouridentity (twitter.com/_/status/565496609862336515)
scor, elf-pavlik, elf-pavlik_, elf-pavlik__, Acidnerd, friedcell and KevinMarks_ joined the channel
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GWG Pfefferle, did you see snarfed's work?
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pfefferle sure
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pfefferle GWG if you speak of the micropup plugin
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GWG Pub, and yes
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pfefferle GWG but I still see no need to use micropub :)
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pfefferle GWG but I understand why snarfed is doing it
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GWG I really wanted a simple and fast note posting UI.
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GWG Micropub could be the way to address that.
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GWG Of course, there are many other ways too
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GWG It takes me too long and too many steps to post a note
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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indie-visitor yo
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madpandakiller hay guys
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madpandakiller any one play day-z
MadPandaKiller, loic_m and LauraJ joined the channel
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MadPandaKiller yo
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MadPandaKiller v
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MadPandaKiller If you guys play dayz sa join you should apply to join this clan http://www.misfitsdayz.com/
#
MadPandaKiller If you guys play dayz sa join you should apply to join this clan http://www.misfitsdayz.com/
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MadPandaKiller If you guys play dayz sa join you should apply to join this clan http://www.misfitsdayz.com/
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MadPandaKiller If you guys play dayz sa join you should apply to join this clan http://www.misfitsdayz.com/
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MadPandaKiller If you guys play dayz sa join you should apply to join this clan http://www.misfitsdayz.com/
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MadPandaKiller If you guys play dayz sa join you should apply to join this clan http://www.misfitsdayz.com/
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barnabywalters aaronpk, can you kick madpandakiller as obviously spam?
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MadPandaKiller If you guys play dayz sa join you should apply to join this clan http://www.misfitsdayz.com/
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Loqi barnabywalters: KevinMarks left you a message on 2/10 at 5:14pm: https://waterpigs.co.uk/services/microformats-to-atom/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com seems to mis out all the h-entry's
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MadPandaKiller I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE HERE
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barnabywalters madpandakiller: you are not. why are you spamming the channel?
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cweiske you can't see him anymore now
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XxNinja37xX Idk
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XxNinja37xX why not
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aaronpk omg
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aaronpk oh well looks like that took care of itself
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GWG Anyone have any good examples of the data passed to a reply endpoint?
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barnabywalters GWG: if you’re talking about micropub, shrewdness just sends content and in-reply-to
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@krisshaffer In which I don't quit Twitter... http://kris.shaffermusic.com/2015/02/my-new-social-media-posse/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/565524382635024387)
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GWG Snarfed is doing micropub for WordPress. I thought I might add something that worked more like the twitter intents
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@bennettscience RT @krisshaffer: In which I don't quit Twitter... http://kris.shaffermusic.com/2015/02/my-new-social-media-posse/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/565525252898570242)
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GWG As a complement to that.
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sandro ben_thatmust, did you get the IE email finally? I clicked the wrong place yesterday and messed up the process, but supposedly it's been sorted now.
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ben_thatmustbeme sandro, I did, thank you
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sandro Great :)
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barnabywalters GWG: so you’re making posting endpoints for wordpress which auto-fill form fields with values from the URL query string?
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barnabywalters in that case IMO the only thing required is the in-reply-to URL, and then if the UI wants to pre-fill the content with stuff based on the URL (e.g. twitter @name) it can do that itself
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pfefferle GWG but micropub will only provide an API… so you still have to code a simple UI for that…
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aaronpk you don't really need to use the micropub api if you're posting from wordpress. it's more useful for posting from other apps
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pfefferle exactly
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pfefferle GWG aaronpk I understand why snarfed wants to implement it, because it is easier to run micropub calls instead of for example atom-pup or xml-rpc https://github.com/snarfed/ownyourresponses
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ben_thatmustbeme now i just have a ton of reading to catch up with for SocialWG
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aaronpk pfefferle: yes also because there are a bunch of micropub apps that he'll be able to use soon! like the readers for example
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rhiaro Just finished figuring out what to say for my talk about indieweb at Edinburgh Techmeetup tonight
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rhiaro It's basically going to be a guided tour of the wiki
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aaronpk rhiaro: awesome!
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rhiaro Hopefully will recruit lots of people for IWC Edinburgh!
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pfefferle aaronpk but it doesn’t simplify the posting UI at the end
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aaronpk what do you mean?
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pfefferle aaronpk except you always want to use extenal apps/webservices to post
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aaronpk that's what it's for
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aaronpk so you can use a reader like http://reader.kylewm.com and click the "like" button and have it post to your wordpress site
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ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro, will it be recorded?
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ben_thatmustbeme s/recorded/posted online/
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: rhiaro, will it be posted online?
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rhiaro ben_thatmustbeme: they often are, though I odn't know what happens to the recordings
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pfefferle aaronpk Yes :) My only problem: I am not sure how micropub will help GWG to simplify the WordPress posting UI
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rhiaro I'll try to get hold of it if so
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aaronpk recordings often go into a black hole
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aaronpk it's hard to actually do something with the video after recording it
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm just thinking if its posted, its another entry for /presentations
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rhiaro yeah
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aaronpk your best bet is gonna be to try to snag the file at the event. bring an external hard drive :)
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rhiaro if they don't post it on techmeetup.org I'll post it myself
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rhiaro I know where to hunt the organisers down, so I'll pester for it :)
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aaronpk excellent
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KevinMarks_ I recognise that, aaronpk. I have done talks that were obviously being videoed, so didn't ask anyone to do it for me, and then the organisers never posted them
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rhiaro s/techmeetup.org/techmeetup.co.uk
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aaronpk i've found the only way to make sure i post videos of talks i record is to do it the same week
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aaronpk otherwise it quickly falls into the "low priority" status and gets buried under other stuff
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rhiaro aha, looks like they're only a month behind http://vimeo.com/techmeetup
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rhiaro so that bodes well
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gregorlove.com edited /FeedBurner (+56) "/* Indieweb Examples */ Former" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /RSS (-262) "/* Indieweb Examples */" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Atom (+361) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ +me" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com (+28) "/* Interests */" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /RSS (-5) "word-o" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /Atom (-49) "fix hotlinked logo" (view diff)
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aaronpk really? there are no examples of people publishing an RSS feed?
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gRegor` It was only added to the page yesterday.
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gRegor` Barnaby and I were in that section, but he is technically Atom
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gRegor` And now I am too. :)
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aaronpk i just checked and mine is also atom
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aaronpk i have no idea why i chose atom over rss when i made it
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gRegor` I migrated back to Atom because popular indieweb opinion seems to be it's the lesser of two XMeviLs
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gRegor` I've heard that outside indieweb, too.
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gRegor` Feels good to have reclaimed the feed, though! Thankfully the FeedBurner delete+permanently redirect process was easy.
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gRegor` http://feeds.feedburner.com/gregorlove
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aaronpk they have a "permanently redirect" feature? that's a great feature to add to the feedburner page
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gRegor` It's on /FeedBurner
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aaronpk oh good
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gRegor` You could add yourself to /Atom#IndieWeb_Examples
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kylewm.com edited /Atom (+344) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add me" (view diff)
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aaronpk my atom tag is gone from my home page so it's not discoverable anymore. i don't know when that happened.
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gRegor` Ah
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aaronpk i think i removed it when i kept getting complaints that my articles weren't showing up very nicely in atom, like images were broken or something
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kylewm aaronpk: yeah iirc some readers couldn't parse your xml
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aaronpk and i just didn't want to deal with fixing it
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aaronpk i should link to the h-entry->atom service tho
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Loqi +1
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gRegor` I went to the trouble of validating my feed last night and yeah, it's a bit of a pain. Mostly just the way I had to tinker with the way /Nucleus outputs information, to encode certain entities.
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aaronpk oh huh, I don't even have an HTML page with the full text of articles
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kylewm.com edited /RSS (+0) "/* Indieweb Examples */ use canonical page name Atom instead of ATOM" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /Template:see_also (+101) "'see also' template" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Template:see_also (+25) (view diff)
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kylewm @julien51 is also Atom...
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aaronpk heh
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kylewm even pump2rss uses Atom
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gregorlove.com edited /Template:see_also (+8) (view diff)
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@sirmlivesey Time we started anew. https://transparency.twitter.com/information-requests/2014/jul-dec #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/565553241908584449)
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gregorlove.com edited /Template:see_also (+1) (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Template:see_also (+5) (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Template:see_also (-1) (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /Template:! (+1) "Ceci n'est pas une pipe." (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Template:see_also (-8) (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /RSS (-2) "/* Indieweb Examples */" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Template:see_also (+39) "doc sub-template" (view diff)
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@kylewm2 indiewebcamp tries to document social web interactions, but “so-and-so invited you to like their page” is one i’d feel good about skipping (twitter.com/_/status/565555453183004672)
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gregorlove.com created /Template:see_also/doc (+919) "docs" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /RSS (-7) "/* Indieweb Examples */ corrected link" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Atom (-9) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ see also template" (view diff)
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gRegor` http://indiewebcamp.com/Template:see_also is set up now. Renders the "See also" links in the same way as "Main article" links.
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gregorlove.com edited /Template:main (+92) (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /Template:main/doc (+779) "docs" (view diff)
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snarfed straw poll: micropub and webmention endpoints with query params. subjective vote…fine? unfortunate but ok? horrible?
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kylewm fine (note that p3k's webmention endpoint has query params)
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snarfed1 kylewm: thx
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aaronpk shouldn't matter since both accept POST requests so you never need to mess with the URL you're given
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gRegor` snarfed1: sounds fine to me
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snarfed1 thanks guys
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snarfed1 ugh brb
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gRegor` As long as it's not a utm_ param
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aaronpk gRegornobacktick++
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Loqi gRegornobacktick has 38 karma
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snarfed gRegor`: just for you, https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/blob/master/util.py#L214 :P
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gRegor` haha
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gRegor` Speaking of, a week or two ago someone posted some javascript to automatically redirect to canonical links. Anyone have that handy?
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aaronpk gRegor`: https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/224cb6905c2d0016b148
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aaronpk i don't know where it came from but i just copied that out of my bookmarks bar
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gRegor` Thanks!
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gRegor` Ah, so it's a bookmarklet, not something that automatically redirects?
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aaronpk yeah
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@techmeetup Watch TechMeetUp - Edinburgh, 11.02.2015 by INDIGI on http://new.livestream.com #indieweb http://new.livestream.com/accounts/8047110/events/3803239 (twitter.com/_/status/565588204678823936)
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aaronpk lol at signup overlay
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aaronpk open chrome inspector, delete overlay class, stream is already playing
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@realcolinquinn RT @techmeetup: Watch TechMeetUp - Edinburgh, 11.02.2015 by INDIGI on http://new.livestream.com #indieweb http://new.livestream.com/accounts/8047110/events/3803239 (twitter.com/_/status/565588551036055552)
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@indigi_ RT @techmeetup: Watch TechMeetUp - Edinburgh, 11.02.2015 by INDIGI on http://new.livestream.com #indieweb http://new.livestream.com/accounts/8047110/events/3803239 (twitter.com/_/status/565590749727961089)
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kylewm.com edited /RSS (+239) "/* Indieweb Examples */ finally found some examples of people using RSS and not Atom" (view diff)
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aaronpk rhiaro is on now!
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aaronpk oh 10-minute break first
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aaronpk http://new.livestream.com/accounts/8047110/events/3803239
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kylewm nice, thanks aaronpk
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benwerd_ slightly homesick
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benwerd_ That thing when there are people you know milling around on the livestream but they're 5000 miles away *waves helplessly at screen*
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aaronpk aw
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kylewm i could happily listen to sub-audible drone of scottish accents all day
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benwerd_ It's like Coffitivity but Scottish
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benwerd_ Whiskitivity?
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gRegor` benwerd_ beat me to it. I was just trying to remember the name of Coffitivity, haha
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@benwerd Watching an #indieweb presentation at #techmeetup Edinburgh! http://new.livestream.com/accounts/8047110/events/3803239 (twitter.com/_/status/565598680468979712)
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kylewm aaronpk: benwerd_: can you hear her?
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aaronpk yeah
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benwerd_ Yes, but volume is cranked
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aaronpk "Implement stuff first, ask questions later"
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aaronpk makes sure the server stays on
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gRegor` Haha
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aaronpk (she's clicking a bunch of links in the wiki)
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gRegor` Indieweb of the Rings
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aaronpk "indieweb is not getting everyone to use the same system"
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aaronpk "indieweb is about doing things your way"
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kylewm omg
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kylewm I had Coffivity playing in the background
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kylewm I did not understand how you guys could hear
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kylewm wow
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aaronpk hahahaha
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danlyke giggle.
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gRegor` rustles the bushes outside kylewm's window
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benwerd_ kylewm: ha
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aaronpk benward______: your ssl cert expired!
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kylewm.com edited /User:Kylewm.com (+446) "/* Itches */" (view diff)
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@tef it's weird when the indieweb history lesson pretends aol, compuserve didn't exist and the social network lockin is modern (twitter.com/_/status/565601676145745920)
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millette and yacht clubs
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@kevinmarks @tef you can add that to the wiki http://indiewebcamp.com/silos (twitter.com/_/status/565602343342080000)
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@aaronpk @tef Feel free to fill in some more information here! http://indiewebcamp.com/history (twitter.com/_/status/565602416213905408)
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aaronpk oops haha
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki commented '@tef Feel free to fill in some more information here! http://indiewebcamp.com/history' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/history (https://aaronparecki.com/replies/2015/02/11/3/)
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@janl RT @tef: it's weird when the indieweb history lesson pretends aol, compuserve didn't exist and the social network lockin is modern (twitter.com/_/status/565602651665346560)
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aaronpk braces for live demo
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@adambrenecki RT @tef: it's weird when the indieweb history lesson pretends aol, compuserve didn't exist and the social network lockin is modern (twitter.com/_/status/565602971237761026)
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gRegor` Way to break things, Twitter
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kylewm indieauth supports last.fm??
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aaronpk kylewm: lol yeah
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kylewm weird, cool
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aaronpk soon eventbrite since they added rel=me to their profiles last week
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@techmeetup We're all listening to @rhiaro talking about #indieweb https://twitter.com/techmeetup/status/565603308933771264/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/565603308933771264)
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aaronpk aw the livestream is breaking up for me
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@kevinmarks RT @benwerd: Watching an #indieweb presentation at #techmeetup Edinburgh! http://new.livestream.com/accounts/8047110/events/3803239 (twitter.com/_/status/565603865203310592)
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@marksutherland RT @techmeetup: We're all listening to @rhiaro talking about #indieweb https://twitter.com/techmeetup/status/565603308933771264/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/565603989094674435)
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aaronpk !tell rhiaro it looks like your site is being served from both http://www.rhiaro.co.uk/ and http://rhiaro.co.uk/ instead of having one redirect to the other, which is why your twitter indieauth login stopped working
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell her that when I see her next
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@wirehead RT @tef: it's weird when the indieweb history lesson pretends aol, compuserve didn't exist and the social network lockin is modern (twitter.com/_/status/565604323959508993)
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aaronpk "They're a really friendly bunch, but they don't believe in mailing lists"
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@aaronpk #indieweb "They're a really friendly bunch, but they don't believe in mailing lists" @rhiaro (twitter.com/_/status/565604855637889024)
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aaronpk waves to the room
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gRegor` waves
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benwerd_ waves
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aaronpk that was great :)
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gRegor` Meme idea: "Mailing lists? I don't believe in them." http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_gifs/4564480/Rous
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benwerd_ "Known is like WordPress for the indieweb." I'll take it.
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@parody_bit RT @tef: it's weird when the indieweb history lesson pretends aol, compuserve didn't exist and the social network lockin is modern (twitter.com/_/status/565605115575693316)
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benwerd_ Am resource-constrained but badly want to go to IndieWebCamp Edinburgh.
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@marksutherland RT @techmeetup: Watch TechMeetUp - Edinburgh, 11.02.2015 by INDIGI on http://new.livestream.com #indieweb http://new.livestream.com/accounts/8047110/events/3803239 (twitter.com/_/status/565605600407851008)
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snarfed benwerd++ yup that's praise
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Loqi benwerd has 55 karma
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snarfed known++
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Loqi known has 5 karma
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gRegor` Ah, don't die during q&a, livestream
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aaronpk nooo
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@kevinmarks RT @aaronpk: #indieweb "They're a really friendly bunch, but they don't believe in mailing lists" @rhiaro (twitter.com/_/status/565606161291169792)
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gRegor` Question was about Bridgy handling groups.
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@dch__ RT @tef: it's weird when the indieweb history lesson pretends aol, compuserve didn't exist and the social network lockin is modern (twitter.com/_/status/565606255587516418)
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gRegor` Paging snarfed to Edinburgh
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@tef @benwerd fwiw alhough known has indieweb bits it does seem to try and be a low hassle way to self publish, which is neat (twitter.com/_/status/565606388525965312)
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snarfed gRegor`: edinburgh, hell yeah! you can babysit my 5mo old for a week or so right? :P
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snarfed oh stream
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aaronpk easier
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snarfed heh
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gRegor` Hehe
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snarfed juggling her right now, unlikely
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snarfed ask here and i can try to answer
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aaronpk Q: "why is this indieweb and not just the web?"
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snarfed A: "correct!"
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benwerd_ :D
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kylewm australian accent
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aaronpk Q: "aren't you still dependent on the DNS system?"
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aaronpk Q: "are there any recommendations on server hosting?"
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snarfed A: "yes, just like you and pretty much everyone"
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aaronpk A: "no."
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aaronpk sorry to muddle that QA thread :)
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aaronpk A: "DNS is out of scope"
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aaronpk Q about private messaging
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gRegor` rhiaro++
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Loqi rhiaro has 10 karma
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aaronpk rhiaro++
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Loqi rhiaro has 11 karma
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tbrb rhiaro++
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Loqi dude
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gRegor` Heh "This website is under destruction. Check back soon for less green and more linked data. (And up to date blog posts)" http://rhiaro.co.uk/
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gRegor` That's too bad. I like the green.
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kylewm tbrb: welcome! are you at that meetup?
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tbrb I am indeed
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kylewm cool
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tbrb I've been lurking a little recently after speaking to rhiaro
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tbrb And just looking to get involved more when I start getting time to
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gRegor` Cool, tbrb. Welcome!
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gRegor` Do you have a personal website?
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@benwerd You mean the latest masterpiece in indieweb storytelling from Known Inc's™ Ben Werdmuller™ and Erin Jo .. http://werd.io/2015/you-mean-the-latest-masterpiece-in-indieweb-storytelling-from-known (twitter.com/_/status/565609188710436865)
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@benwerd You mean the latest masterpiece in indieweb storytelling from Known Inc's™ Ben Werdmuller™ and Erin Jo .. http://werd.io/2015/you-mean-the-latest-masterpiece-in-indieweb-storytelling-from-known (twitter.com/_/status/565609408269676548)
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tbrb I do. I also have set up indie auth too :)
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KartikPrabhu gRegor`: is HWC on tonight?
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: tantek left you a message on 2/10 at 5:10pm: which version of RSS did you used to support?
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gRegor` Nice. You can add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people if you'd like. Then the chat logs can show your picture and link to you: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: Yep. She'll either be there or hide a key for us.
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gRegor` There's a new lock.
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gRegor` So, fingers crossed. :)
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KartikPrabhu cool. yeah be careful
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KartikPrabhu :P
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KartikPrabhu tell tantek: I believe RSS2.0
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tbrb Cool gRegor`, I'll have a look at that when I get home
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KartikPrabhu bleh fail
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KartikPrabhu !tell tantek: I believe RSS2.0 . that is Django default
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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rhiaro aaronpk: ohh shouldn't have used www when I tried to log in. Guess it was just blind luck the others worked
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Loqi rhiaro: aaronpk left you a message 28 minutes ago: it looks like your site is being served from both http://www.rhiaro.co.uk/ and http://rhiaro.co.uk/ instead of having one redirect to the other, which is why your twitter indieauth login stopped working
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rhiaro I guess I usually don't use www
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aaronpk ahh
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rhiaro live demo panic
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rhiaro :)
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aaronpk well if you redirect one to the other (doesn't matter which way) then it'll work either way you enter it
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rhiaro yeah
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rhiaro it's getting a complete overhaul soon
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rhiaro New one was supposed to be up tonight but I had to spend that time fighting with another server instead
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aaronpk aw
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rhiaro my current site is actually parsing a blogger rss feed :/
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rhiaro New one that runs on a triplestore (for reasons) is about ready :D
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KitB Are you serving through docker?
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rhiaro KitB: no, that one is going on shared hosting to prove a point
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aaronpk nice
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KitB Oh of course. :P
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tbrb Aaron, regarding redirecting a site, would nginx just returning a 301 do?
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aaronpk yeah
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rhiaro tbrb: sounds right
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snarfed sharedhosting++
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Loqi sharedhosting has 1 karma
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@bobbi_fox_SMR RT @tef: it's weird when the indieweb history lesson pretends aol, compuserve didn't exist and the social network lockin is modern (twitter.com/_/status/565612673011040259)
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tbrb Ace, I'll swap my vhost config tonight too
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snarfed sysadmin--
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Loqi sysadmin has -1 karma
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aaronpk sysadmin--
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Loqi dude
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aaronpk hm maybe that should be sysadmining--
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aaronpk since i have nothing against sysadmins
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aaronpk in fact i appreciate them quite a bit because it means i dont have to do it
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rhiaro I forgot to mention indiehosters
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snarfed i love that karma is a mild black box, you often have to guess the word
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aaronpk that's ok, you managed to get quite a lot in there!
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rhiaro but sharedhosting-- because the server my site is on got ddosed the other week and was down for ages
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rhiaro but sharedhosting++ because I didn't have to deal with the problem myself
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rhiaro They never found out (or, at least, shared) who the target was, so if it had been one of my sites being on a shared server is great, but if it was someone else, then not so much
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snarfed rhiaro: out of curiosity, how would owning the os/hardware have inherently helped with the ddos?
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rhiaro I mean if someone else was the target of the ddos, they wouldn't have been on my server, so I wouldn't have been affected
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snarfed ahhhhhhh it was against someone else
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rhiaro sharing with other people increases the risk of being hit as a side effect
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rhiaro if it *had* been against me, then I'm glad I wasn't the one who had to fix it
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snarfed at least, sharing with poor isolation and multitenancy
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snarfed ok agreed
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snarfed multitenancy++
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Loqi multitenancy has 1 karma
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rhiaro yeah, your standard every-joe shared hosting
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snarfed puts down the karma and steps back
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snarfed eh, even then, many of them have pretty good isolation
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snarfed just not all
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rhiaro I dunno, I'm with a company I've been with for years
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rhiaro Since I bought my very first domain name!
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rhiaro I do most things on digital ocean droplets
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rhiaro just my personal site on shared host mostly
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rhiaro oh, we've had an offer of a venue for IWC Edi :)
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@obra @aaronpk @rhiaro Email is totally anti-#indieweb. Loose federation, open, interoperable protocols & 30+ year history of self-hosting. Ick! (twitter.com/_/status/565615046001446912)
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snarfed what's the perfect chaser for a good old fashioned RSS debate?
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snarfed …
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snarfed mailing list debate!
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aaronpk :)
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aaronpk i think that debate ended quickly
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2015/02/11/4/
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snarfed give it time
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@ScottMuc RT @tef: it's weird when the indieweb history lesson pretends aol, compuserve didn't exist and the social network lockin is modern (twitter.com/_/status/565619396690055170)
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gRegor` aaronpk: I've noticed your dt-published <time> elements show a text cursor on hover in Firefox, but a pointer cursor in Chrome. I thought for a moment there weren't permalinks when I was browsing in Firefox.
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aaronpk oh odd
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gRegor` turning off ul .date { cursor: auto; } seems to bring back the pointer in Firefox
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gRegor` Link works fine of course. Just the cursor threw me off
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aaronpk yeah weird
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aaronpk i wonder why i added cursor: auto in the first place then
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harryreeder.co.uk edited /IRC_People (+100) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme tbrb++ welcome
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Loqi tbrb has 1 karma
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tbrb Thanks
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bret HWC pdx tonight!
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bret should we start advertising event in the topic?
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aaronpk oh i should make Loqi do that like he does for #pdxtech
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Loqi who, me?
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bret aaronpk: yeah!
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bret ;)
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KevinMarks hm, lots of missing replies from brid.gy on http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/quiet-wadha-episode-45-of-tldr-that-has-been-supressed - fasle positives for having it linked last by others?
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KevinMarks oh wait, brid.gy doesn't find direct links to posts, dose it only replie to my tweets
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snarfed KevinMarks: correct
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snarfed the infamous https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/51
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snarfed or at least related
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KevinMarks maybe #51 needs splitting into sub-bugs
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@enquos enquos system tour: https://www.youtube.com/ #ownyourdata #tracking #selftracking #health #fitness #nutrition #wellness #quantifiedself (twitter.com/_/status/565641654347255809)
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gRegor` kylewm: I know it's early, but do you have stats on Woodwind? # of feeds, # of people using it?
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kylewm gRegor`: 21 users have registered, subscribing to 67 feeds
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kylewm no clue how many are active
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aaronpk wow
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snarfed 21! awesome!
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snarfed kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 116 karma
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aaronpk rwar i wanna work on mine soon!
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aaronpk i'm just backlogged right now
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kylewm 9 users have subscribed to more than 2 feeds :)
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gRegor` I'm using it more and more regularly.
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gRegor` I haven't used a feed reader regularly since Google Reader died, and keep thinking I need to get going with one again.
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aaronpk i've used feed readers since google reader... the twitter app, instagram app, indiewebcamp irc logs, ...
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gRegor` Yeah yeah. By "reader" I mean "xml feed aggregator" :)
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aaronpk :)
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KevinMarks we just need to drop the xml part
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snarfed kylewm: KevinMarks: looks like today's hwc may be quiet. should we bring laptops and plan to hack some?
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KevinMarks sounds good
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KevinMarks if we can iterate on reader/unmung/micropub stuff
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kylewm oh looks like andi changed her mind :(
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snarfed we should drag benwerd_ if he's around
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Loqi yea
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kylewm he can't be too far away from http://werd.io/2015/checked-into-rockit-colabs-15
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benwerd_ :)
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benwerd_ I'm definitely planning to come.
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snarfed yay!
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Loqi giggles
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KevinMarks yay! - reader hacking, ben?
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Loqi woot
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Blackwool hi all, new here
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acegiak Blackwool is my partner
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Blackwool yus
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KevinMarks hi blackwool
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aaronpk waves
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Blackwool hey :)
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Blackwool I actually wanted to ask the group a few questions about indie web camp in general
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KevinMarks please do
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Blackwool I'm a documentarian and I have an opportunity to apply for some funding
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kylewm (acegiak: your new style looks really nice!)
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benwerd_ KevinMarks: definitely game!
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Blackwool and when Ace suggested I make a film about Indie Web and the battle for the social web I thought YES!
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KevinMarks nice
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acegiak kylewm: thanks! I'm just playing with custom CSS on GWG's base mf2_s theme
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benwerd_ Blackwool: That sounds really exciting
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KevinMarks Blackwool: we have some source material linked: http://indiewebcamp.com/videos_about_the_indieweb
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Blackwool Awesome! (We have literally only just come up with the idea this morning, so it's very new and basic)
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Blackwool but the brief is "open a conversation you think Australia should be having"
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Blackwool and I feel like this really applies
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KevinMarks I did an interview with ABC.au before: http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/futuretense/a-healthy-digital-ecology/5131856
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Blackwool fantastic!
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Blackwool I'll check it out!
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acegiak benwerd_: did you get a webmention from me on http://werd.io/2015/pushing-known-hard-right-now-not-100-natural-for-me ?
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benwerd_ I don't have a notification of one
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acegiak hmmm :/
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kylewm Blackwool: did you still have questions? lost on the wiki? :)
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GWG Kylewm, acegiak, glad you like it.
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GWG I have a theme I am developing on it up at tiny.n9n.us
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Blackwool Haha, yeah, sorry! currently watching a talk by Tantek Celik
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Blackwool But very keen to hear any thoughts you have, I haven't quite worked out what I need to ask yet!
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kylewm no worries! and no hurry
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KevinMarks a lot of our videos are CC'd so, you should be able to reuse...
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Blackwool oh! fantastic!
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acegiak GWG: neat! a bit bold for my tastes
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Blackwool I obviously would want to film a ton of new stuff, because that's what I like doing, but that would be very useful...
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acegiak trying to keep certain kinds of posts unobtrusive
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GWG Acegiak, it's a work in progress. Bold how?
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acegiak GWG: It's good so far! The large block shapes and sharp clean lines
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KevinMarks interesting comment about medium and Genius being the same underneath: https://medium.com/message/its-kind-of-cheesy-being-green-2c72cc9e5eda
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acegiak GWG: does indieweb post kinds call webmention for response url?
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acegiak or should I add that to my posse plugin?
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kylewm KevinMarks: I was happier before I read that. didn't know iPhone users see my texts as second class citizens :(
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aaronpk I have no explanation for why, but I find myself having the same opinion about the green bubbles