#indiewebcamp 2015-02-10

2015-02-10 UTC
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ben_thatmust tantek, its actually rather impossible to follow the steps there, step 1, fill out the form, asks for a user/pass, step 2 says to add yourself to the section below, which unless step 1 creates an account on the wiki, is also impossible
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ben_thatmust s/step 2/step 3
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Loqi ben_thatmust meant to say: tantek, its actually rather impossible to follow the steps there, step 1, fill out the form, asks for a user/pass, step 3 says to add yourself to the section below, which unless step 1 creates an account on the wiki, is also impossible
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GWG Post Kinds is going in the WordPress repository
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GWG I need a noisemaker
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KevinMarks woohoo
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GWG KevinMarks: Now it will be searchable...
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ben_thatmust loqi, GWG needs a noisemaker
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GWG Once I figure out how to automate deployment
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kylewm does anyone else use supervisord, and if so do you know why it is kinda slow to restart processes?
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kylewm KevinMarks: on svgur, you're missing a close quote in <span class="e-content>
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kylewm GWG++ congratulations!!
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Loqi GWG has 63 karma
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KevinMarks gwg++
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KevinMarks oops
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Loqi gwg has 64 karma
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KevinMarks try now
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snarfed GWG++ congrats, good news!
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Loqi GWG has 65 karma
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kylewm hey hey http://reader.kylewm.com/?feed=59
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KevinMarks aha
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tantek ben_thatmust: you need to read the steps more closely
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tantek !tell ben_thatmust as a result of filling out the invited expert application, you end up creating a W3C account, which then you can use to login to the wiki to do the edit in step 3
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben_thatmust ahh, okay, well i was stuck at step 1
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Loqi ben_thatmust: tantek left you a message 6 minutes ago: as a result of filling out the invited expert application, you end up creating a W3C account, which then you can use to login to the wiki to do the edit in step 3
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tantek where did you get stuck inside step 1?
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tantek creating your own w3c account should be very straightforward
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ben_thatmust yeah, i don't see that on the instructions, i can't click the link to the application, it asks for user/pass
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ben_thatmust or rather i can click it, but i can't get anywhere
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ben_thatmust A username and password are being requested by https://www.w3.org. The site says: "W3CACL"
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ben_thatmust ah ha, i found the form to create an account first
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ben_thatmust okay tantek, applied
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tantek ben_thatmust: woot! now edit the wiki per step 3 :)
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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ben_thatmust already done
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tantek hmm - that should have shown up in the # social channel on W3C IRC
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tantek aaronpk - is Loqi not seeing edits to [[Socialwg]] home page itself?
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Loqi woot!
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tantek Loqi is perky today
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aaronpk tantek: oops! that is true. I'm matching pages on Socialwg/
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ben_thatmust so I should just add those user stories myself I suppose
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aaronpk tantek: fixed, should start seeing home page edits now
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tantek ben_thatmust - since you're not in the WG yet it's probably not totally ok yet
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tantek however I think you could edit the agenda
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aaronpk I am happy to add them and credit you but take responsibility for thtem
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tantek to +1 James's request for more time
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tantek hmm - he hasn't added it yet
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ben_thatmust I'm adding them now
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tantek alright I added this agenda item:
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tantek https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-02-10#Request_More_Time_For_User_Stories
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tantek ben_thatmust: could you NOT add them yet?
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tantek until you're approved as an invited expert (sorry about the bureaucracy)
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tantek there's been enough controversy about the User Stories page that I'd like to avoid more controversy (e.g. a not-yet-member editing it)
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ben_thatmust okay, no problem
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tantek however go ahead and add to this request for a time extension for user stories: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-02-10#Request_More_Time_For_User_Stories
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tantek and specifically link to your blog post of the user stories on your own blog!
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GWG https://wordpress.org/plugins/indieweb-post-kinds/
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GWG Okay, we're live
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@new_wp_plugins New #WordPress plugin: indieweb-post-kinds- https://wordpress.org/plugins/indieweb-post-kinds/ Allows you to reply/like/RSVP etc to another site from your own, by... (twitter.com/_/status/564967762464755712)
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ben_thatmust GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 66 karma
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GWG Just remembered how long it has been since I used SVN
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david.shanske.com edited /WordPress_Plugins (+3) "/* Kinds of Posts */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /Post_Kinds_Plugin (+3) (view diff)
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GWG Now I just need some reviews
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@DigestWordpress RT @new_wp_plugins: New #WordPress plugin: indieweb-post-kinds- https://wordpress.org/plugins/indieweb-post-kinds/ Allows you to reply/like/RSVP etc to another site fr… (twitter.com/_/status/564977939574296576)
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tantek GWG++ congrats on getting your plugin published on wordpress.org!!!
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Loqi GWG has 67 karma
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GWG Waiting for my first bad review
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GWG I'm paranoid
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ben_thatmust i can just give you one to get it out of the way if you like
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GWG ben_thatmust: Not yet
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GWG Only one download
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kylewm GWG: did they give any comments in the review?
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@davidmead This is why I love #indieweb. Starring @microformats... http://blog.davidjohnmead.com/2015/this-is-why-i-love-indieweb-starring-microformats (twitter.com/_/status/564987405048885251)
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GWG There are no reviews
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Loqi [mention] David Mead posted 'This is why I love #indieweb. Starring @microformats... 2 min read ...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/PESOS (http://blog.davidjohnmead.com/2015/this-is-why-i-love-indieweb-starring-microformats)
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Loqi [mention] David Mead posted 'This is why I love #indieweb. Starring @microformats... 2 min read ...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-09#t1423508509423 (http://blog.davidjohnmead.com/2015/this-is-why-i-love-indieweb-starring-microformats)
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Loqi [mention] David Mead posted 'This is why I love #indieweb. Starring @microformats... 2 min read ...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-09#t1423509688248 (http://blog.davidjohnmead.com/2015/this-is-why-i-love-indieweb-starring-microformats)
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@aaronpk @davidmead Great work! It sounds like you should send a pull request for your changes to the Known... #indieweb http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2015/02/09/8/indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/564987951113715713)
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kylewm GWG: oh right, I meant when they gave you the stamp of approval to get into the plugin gallery
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GWG Just automation
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kylewm I love a community that helps people to make their first pull request
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kylewm woohoo
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kylewm indiewebcamp++
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Loqi indiewebcamp has 3 karma
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aaronpk i just realized something
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aaronpk a Planet is kind of a shared reader, especially if it has "like/reply" buttons on it
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aaronpk like if kylewm were to create a page in Woodwind of posts from all feeds Woodwind is tracking, it would be a planet
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tantek that it would
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tantek would make a good default home page for that matter
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aaronpk yeah exactly, I was just thinking about doing that for Monocle (my reader) and then realized I would basically be creating a planet
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aaronpk although I think I'm going to make a front page which features some subset of recent posts it's tracking rather than a full stream
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aaronpk oh yeah twitter used to have a public stream of all public posts on their home page!
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tantek and now I'm doing date-time math to post things in PST :P
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tantek GWG, I just posted a couple more likes - any weirdness?
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GWG No. Not sure why
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tantek alright, cool, let me know if you see it again
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tantek.com edited /MySQL (+195) "/* Criticism */ Unhappy with Kanji input" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MySQL (+345) "/* Unhappy with Kanji input */ actually Unhappy with non-ASCII input" (view diff)
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kylewm interesting thought about the planet. i'm subscribed to some "private" feeds in woodwind that would make it a little trickier
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tantek kylewm: how do you track a feed as being "private" in Woodwind?
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tantek or is it security through secret URL obscurity?
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tantek.com edited /Template:Homebrew_Website_Club (+60) "02-07-ko!" (view diff)
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kylewm tantek: just a secret URL
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tantek kylewm: are these exclusively feed files? or is anyone doing secret h-feeds?
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tantek has an idea
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kylewm they are h-feeds actually
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kylewm from snarfed's twitter proxy thibg
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kylewm tantek: also can you do your invite storm thing on the hwc event?
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kylewm https://m.facebook.com/events/788946017847062/
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tantek yes I need to do that
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tantek you have secret h-feeds via Twitter? Twitter private account(s)?
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kylewm it's just one feed, but it includes a couple of people who are private
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kylewm same with instagram
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tantek.com edited /Events (+3) "link to a wiki page for border:none 2014 to capture indieweb related stuffs" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /events/border-none-2014-bono14 (+1082) "stub wit h-event from events page, photos section with IG photo of aaronpk presenting" (view diff)
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tantek kylewm - new suggestion for Woodwind home page / Planet defaults: all direct self-hosted feeds, that is, not including any (snarfed) (Twitter, IG, …) proxy thing(s)
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tantek that way the home page prefers / surfaces more "indie" content :)
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aaronpk yeah not showing private content is important obviously
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aaronpk i would just make it not include any feeds that require auth
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aaronpk which I realize is somewhat hard because as as far as woodwind is concerned, feeds are just URLs
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@mshook We Like IndieWeb Software 2015-01-16 http://www.kevinmarks.com/we-like-indieweb-software.html #indieweb #withknown #blogging #comparison #good #kevinmarks #february #2015 (twitter.com/_/status/565017086544457729)
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tantek aaronpk - hence my hack to not include any proxied URLs
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aaronpk how to tell if it's proxied tho?
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aaronpk without a whitelist
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tantek you have a graylist of proxies :P
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aaronpk i mean a whitelist would be easy right now, *.appspot.com
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tantek exactly
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aaronpk how about no feeds that containing query string parameters?
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tantek and filter out same blacklist as indiewebcamp.com does for logins :D
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aaronpk wow grammer
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tantek hmm now I'm trying to categorize what feature aaronparecki.com/links-to/tantek.com is as an IndieWeb Example of
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tantek FB has the whole "x with y" format
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aaronpk it's like that but only one direction
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tantek I think we could collect it under the same umbrella
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aaronpk it's like a reverse mentions feed
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tantek what is see friendship?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "see friendship" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=see+friendship&summary=%28prompted+by+tantek+https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-09/line/1423545827523%29
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tantek aaronpk: https://www.facebook.com/tantek.celik?and=aaronpk :)
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aaronpk actually you know what, it would be more useful to see both sides of links-to
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aaronpk "and"!
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aaronpk I don't know how easy of a change it would be for me, but I think I would like to replace my /links-to pages with /and pages that show to and from links!
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tantek why replace? new feature!
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tantek they're both useful
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aaronpk i guess if I had both directions why is the one direction useful?
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tantek but is it commutative?
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tantek http://www.facebook.com/aaronpk?and=tantek.celik
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tantek yes looks identical
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tantek what is and?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "and" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=and&summary=%28prompted+by+tantek+https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-09/line/1423546016095%29
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kylewm lots of RSS feeds have query parameters, feedburner and whatnot, you're saying filter those out though?
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aaronpk hmm well that does accomplish the same goal of featuring "indie" feeds
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tantek I disagree with the reject query params
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aaronpk do you have any examples of feeds that would be good to feature on the home page that include query params?
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kylewm I'll keep an eye out
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tantek.com created /see_friendship (+1090) "stub with dfn, silo example, similar indieweb example" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - I have some query param variants for subsets of my content (e.g. only articles)
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aaronparecki.com edited /see_friendship (+0) "add date" (view diff)
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aaronpk tantek: but has anybody subscribed to those?
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tantek but obviously that doesn't apply in my case since subscribing to my home page h-feed would get all of those
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tantek aaronpk - ironically, another planet (Mozilla) subscribes to it
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aaronpk ha!
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tantek because people there only wanted my "articles", not every single "tweet" ;)
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aaronpk reasonable
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tantek built it specifically for them, but it generalizes to filtering for any (sub)set of post types
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aaronpk well for the sake of completeness, the query string filter is definitely not sufficient
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tantek now among articles, notes, likes
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aaronpk but for the sake of featuring a subset of indie-friendly content, I think it might be sufficient
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tantek I'm not sure filtering on query strings either way is useful
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aaronpk because that kind of thing doesn't need to match 100%
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tantek I think a graylist of proxies to avoid, and a blacklist of non-indie sites is good
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aaronpk so far I have only entered peoples' home pages to subscribe to
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aaronpk wouldn't those both be blacklists?
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kylewm aaronpk: unrelated, why does indieauth.com go to api.twitter.com/oauth/authorize instead of api.twitter.com/oauth/authenticate?
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aaronpk good question
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aaronpk probably because of a default setting in the omniauth gem
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kylewm I'm looking at https://github.com/arunagw/omniauth-twitter/blob/master/lib/omniauth/strategies/twitter.rb#L54
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aaronpk yeah https://github.com/arunagw/omniauth-twitter##use_authorize
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tantek.com edited /Facebook (+331) "add features section with a few, incorporate post types" (view diff)
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kylewm but it doesn't look like you turn on use_authorize anywhere in indieauth.com so i'm stumped
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aaronpk i think it defaults to authorize
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aaronpk oh no that is the opposite of the thing i linked
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aaronpk okay so let me check the application settings in twitter
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aaronpk "Note: You must have "Allow this application to be used to Sign in with Twitter" checked in your application's settings - without it your user will be asked to authorize your application each time they log in."
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aaronpk well that is nicer :)
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aaronpk try it now!
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kylewm hahaha i was trying to figure out why i couldn't reproduce it
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Loqi rofl
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kylewm it's because you already fixed :P
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aaronpk fixed by checking a box on twitter.com :P
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kylewm aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 693 karma
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aaronpk thanks. i've been wondering about that for a while but never looked into it
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tantek.com created /add_friend (+23) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /friending (+53) "aka dfnd" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /friending (+32) "explicitly note reciprocal friendship in dfn" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk feel free to add to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/border-none-2014-bono14 as well!
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/border-none-2014-bono14 (+72) "add my collection" (view diff)
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acegiak is anyone else publishing current status data? Ie, "currently listening to"?
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aaronpk acegiak: I have a current location / current time section on my home page
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tantek acegiak: various sidebars
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aaronpk and yes in the sidebar
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tantek of various /homepage s
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acegiak do you keep a record of the changes to that data?
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aaronpk yes but it's not published there
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aaronpk for "currently listening to" I'm planning on putting those as posts in my /metrics feed
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GWG acegiak: Look under Scrobbling.
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aaronpk and i've been considering a "currently" section on my home page as well, pulling various stats like "currently eating" or "currently at" from checkins, as well as "listening to"
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acegiak I'm thinking about having posts for scrobbles/metric updates
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acegiak but I think I'd have to work out a way to exclude them from my main feed
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aaronpk man this is an old ticket, but: https://github.com/aaronpk/p3k/issues/22
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aaronpk was also planning on "last night's sleep" as well as IM status
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aaronpk acegiak: yeah I don't publish my food posts in my main feed
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GWG acegiak: That is doable with a custom query.
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/metrics
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@Indie_Auth Fixed Twitter auth so you are automatically redirected instead of having to confirm on https://twitter.com/ each time. (twitter.com/_/status/565027985317588992)
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aaronpk oh crap I forgot to ht @kylewm on that tweet
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acegiak aaronpk: is your metric entry ux documented?
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acegiak I'll hcekc the wiki
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GWG Hmm...up to 2 downloads of the plugin
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GWG Weee.
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aaronpk hm i'm not sure... it's mostly automatically posted via micropub from other sources. food is the only manual one using https://teacup.p3k.io
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acegiak coolios. just wondering
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GWG acegiak: You should watch aaronpk's presentation of Teacup. It's intricate.
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aaronpk oh and bikes and car2go are imported from custom code in my site, not micropub at all
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acegiak GWG: oh did you put your plugin up on the wordpress directory?
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GWG acegiak: Yes
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GWG I'm nervous about it
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acegiak excellent!
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GWG acegiak: I'm awaiting the first review.
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acegiak link to the plugin page?
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GWG That and I probably should work on the descritpion
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GWG https://wordpress.org/plugins/indieweb-post-kinds/
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acegiak def need some screenshots
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aaronpk screenshots++
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Loqi screenshots has 2 karma
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GWG I need to stage some.
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GWG I don't think I should use kylewm's likeness again.
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GWG He sent me a bunch of webmentions to test when I did the Facepile code and it ended up as a habit.
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kylewm GWG: aw you can :)
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aaronpk e/b 20
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aaronpk oops
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tantek kylewm: have you RSVPd maybe to any events, e.g. especially FB, and had it work via Bridgy Publish?
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tantek trying to work out how to RSVP maybe to https://www.facebook.com/events/788946017847062/ so he can invite others
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kylewm oh, hmm no i don't think i have tried a maybe
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tantek what is rsvp?
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Loqi An RSVP is a type of post that is a reply to an event post https://indiewebcamp.com/rsvp
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tantek tries to RTFM
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tantek re-reads what he wrote here: http://microformats.org/wiki/rsvp-brainstorming#h-entry_plus_additions
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tantek kylewm - is there documentation somewhere of Bridgy Publish's RSVP to FB Events support?
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tantek as in what p-rsvp values "work"?
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tantek FB did add a "Save" option (button) to events
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tantek thus I'm wondering if Bridgy Publish would accept a p-rsvp=tracking and translate that to a "Save" on a FB Event
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aaronpk is that like so I can save it to my account without publicly acknowledging the event?
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tantek I don't know if the "saving" is public or not
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aaronpk oh interesting
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kylewm the docs on brid.gy/about pretty much just point to indiewebcamp.com/rsvp
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aaronpk the "save" button has a little bookmark icon!
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aaronpk tantek: I just "saved" that event, do you see my action anywhere?
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aaronpk i don't really know where to expect to see it, but maybe in the little activity sidebar?
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kylewm bridgy currently only supports yes/no/maybe
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tantek aaronpk - where was the all activity thing?
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tantek what is all activity
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "all activity" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=all+activity&summary=%28prompted+by+tantek+https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-09/line/1423551069011%29
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aaronpk oh hmm
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aaronpk https://www.facebook.com/aaronpk/allactivity
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aaronpk can you see that?
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kylewm and in the facebook API, I only see /event/attending /declined /maybe and /invited
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aaronpk there's a lock icon and "only me" next to the saved action which is at the top
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tantek so you do see an entry for it then
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tantek can you click the lock icon and make it public?
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aaronpk yes, a private entry
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aaronpk sure
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tantek then after that can you click on the datetime stamp and get a permalink for it?
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aaronpk actually no, the lock isn't clickable
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aaronpk but I can click the pencil icon to set whether it's visible on my timeline
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tantek hmm - try that?
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aaronpk it does have a permalink https://www.facebook.com/aaronpk/posts/10101854321357046:0
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/uploads/facebook-activity-privacy-20150209-225241.png
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tantek I like how you can report yourself as spam :P
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aaronpk hahaha
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tantek can you screenshot the permalink?
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/uploads/facebook-saved-event-20150209-225455.png
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aaronpk oh it's still private?
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tantek I'm trying think of a good prose way of saying I might remotely attend an event
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aaronpk i think you just said it :)
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tantek yes the permalink shows "Sorry, this page isn't available"
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tantek is it worth capturing "remotely" as an RSVP option?
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tantek or perhaps just collect it as a data point
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aaronpk weird, I clicked show on timeline
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tantek except if it is still only lock = visible only to you
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aaronpk interesting, I think it might be useful
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tantek then it 404s to everyone
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tantek else
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aaronpk because we have always had "remote attendees" listed separately on event pages on the wiki
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tantek right - it satisfies a real-world use case for us
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tantek but I don't know of any silo implementation
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aaronpk you probably don't see the "saved" action on my profile either do you https://www.facebook.com/aaronpk
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aaronpk it's currently at the top for me
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kylewm it's sort of an awkward social situation, you don't necessarily want to invite people to an event you won't be at
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kylewm but i can't invite them because i'm not friends with them...
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aaronpk kylewm: I agree, I invited willow to IWC Cambridge even though I won't be there. But I felt ok about it because she was at the last one and she also knows other people who will be there
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tantek kylewm - I think it's ok if you're at least a remote attendee or remote maybe
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tantek I'm just trying to figure out the prose phrasing / markup to use for such
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tantek instead of my current "going to ..."
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aaronpk you didn't like "might remotely attend ..."?
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@kevinmarks RT @new_wp_plugins: New #WordPress plugin: indieweb-post-kinds- https://wordpress.org/plugins/indieweb-post-kinds/ Allows you to reply/like/RSVP etc to another site fr… (twitter.com/_/status/565044615430930432)
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tantek aaronpk - yeah, something like that
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tantek I may want to brainstorm the full matrix of (going to, might go to, not going to, interested in) x (remote or in-person)
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tantek perhaps I should capture that in /rsvp#brainstorming
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tantek similar to what I did for /like
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tantek text first design and all that
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tantek I have to run, but feel free to capture that on /rsvp
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KevinMarks_ http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=3635#comic
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cweiske is anyone using a self-hosted search engine for his website (that's not the wordpress default search)?
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KevinMarks I think barnaby was using one
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@LindaHuber19 RT @GATaylor3: Might you seek a tale of witches which provokes fanned whisker twitches? Return To Brude #MG #BYNR #SPShow #IndieAuth http:/… (twitter.com/_/status/565056985914413056)
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@jordan_web RT @new_wp_plugins: New #WordPress plugin: indieweb-post-kinds- https://wordpress.org/plugins/indieweb-post-kinds/ Allows you to reply/like/RSVP etc to another site fr… (twitter.com/_/status/565060357602160641)
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justonestep.de edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (+293) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks !tell kylewm how about a 'subscribe" button on the feed pages?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu any ideas about mf2-marking up of painting parameters like mediums and size? example:https://kartikprabhu.com/article/cest-la-vie
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KevinMarks hm. gather examples from galleries?
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KevinMarks eg http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/joseph-mallord-william-turner-the-fighting-temeraire/*/key-facts
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KevinMarks <div class="info"><label class="field">Medium and support</label><div class="value">Oil on canvas</div></div>
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@davebriggs Is this interesting? https://wordpress.org/plugins/indieweb-post-kinds/ I have no idea. (twitter.com/_/status/565066117346234368)
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KevinMarks http://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/millais-ophelia-n01506
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KevinMarks <div class="infoRow"> <span class="infoLabel">Medium</span> <span class="infoValue infoMedium">Oil paint on canvas</span> </div>
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: thanks for the suggestions :)
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KevinMarks the usual process - gather examples, look for commonality
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KartikPrabhu unfortunately mf2 does not support field value pairs
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KartikPrabhu afaik
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KevinMarks <dl><dt><dd> seem a better fit
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KevinMarks than div nests
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KartikPrabhu true but there is no analogue in mf2 parsed output
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KartikPrabhu nor any parsing rule for it
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KevinMarks we'd have to bring back http://microformats.org/wiki/xoxo
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KartikPrabhu possibly
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KevinMarks you could just use p-medium etc
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KartikPrabhu true
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KartikPrabhu will have to think about this one
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KevinMarks the hybrid way would be <dl><dt>Medium</dt><dd class="p-medium">Oil paint on canvas</dd></dl>
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KevinMarks twitter has the nasty label1 data1 label2 data2 meta's https://dev.twitter.com/cards/types/product
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KartikPrabhu bleh. don't like the arbitrary label1 things
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KevinMarks nope
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KevinMarks schema as ever has spectacularly useless inherited properties http://schema.org/Painting
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KartikPrabhu all the while not hainvg any property that encodes "art medium" or "size"
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KartikPrabhu how elaborately useless
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KevinMarks Sothebys don't mark it up directly: http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2015/contemporary-art-evening-auction-l15020/lot.11.html
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KevinMarks <div class="lotdetail-description-text"> signed, titled and dated <em>1979 </em>on the reverse<br>oil on canvas on board<br>61 by 76.5cm.; 24 by 30 1/8 in.<br> </div>
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KartikPrabhu hmm yeah
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KevinMarks you can probably gather enough examples form sites like this to come up with a brainstorming page on microformats.org
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KartikPrabhu yes. I think I have enough examples on my own site to justify it
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KevinMarks right, but lots of existing converged vocab is good
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KartikPrabhu true
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KevinMarks medium looks common; size is interesting and potentially more genreal
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KartikPrabhu yes. but in a responsive world, "size" does not apply to digital photos but only to IRL things
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KartikPrabhu there is also the problem that the photo in the post is not *really* the actual painting
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KevinMarks right
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KevinMarks there was some effort on measure w ahiel ago, but I think it didn't converge well http://microformats.org/wiki/measure
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KartikPrabhu so there seems to be some scope for "h-art" with a u-photo
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KevinMarks http://microformats.org/wiki/measure-brainstorming
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KartikPrabhu or more like a h-representation on IRL thing
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KartikPrabhu I like the measure page, should look over it more
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KevinMarks it is a bit theoretical
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KartikPrabhu yes. but maybe with all this personal data stats it will be useful
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KevinMarks adding the art examples to http://microformats.org/wiki/measure-examples woudl amke sense
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KevinMarks some weather ones in there too
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KartikPrabhu will add them when some sunlight exists
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acegiak I wish there were a way to register webapps as handling android intents
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acegiak but I can't even google it cause all I get is results on making android apps handle web intents
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KevinMarks the label/value/unit model seems worth thinking about it
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KartikPrabhu aah the mobile space such a nuisance
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KevinMarks acegiak: do you need intents that aren't URLs?
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acegiak uploading/sharing pictures so, yeah :(
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KevinMarks <input type="file" accept="image/*" capture> invokes the camera
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KevinMarks but doesn't make it an intent target
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acegiak yeah, the wordpress create post page is PRETTY GOOD, but it's one too many steps for me to use it as much as i'd like
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KevinMarks hm.
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KevinMarks a shim app that accepts share events and sends a micropub post to your web app seems like a good idea
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KevinMarks wasn't someone making somethign like that?
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acegiak I'd use the wordpress app but it doesn't seem to trigger the hooks in the same way as the webapp
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acegiak KevinMarks: that's a great idea
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acegiak if they were where would it be listed
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KevinMarks was it ben_thatmustbeme ?
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KevinMarks https://github.com/dissolve/mobilepub
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KevinMarks http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Ben.thatmustbe.me#MobilePub
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acegiak so if I can get micropub working on wordpress that's a great solution
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marcthiele.com edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (+1) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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marcthiele.com edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (+0) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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@btconf Just sorted the list of the #IndieWebCamp Germany during #btconf. You’re attending? Did you already add yourself? https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany/Guest_List (twitter.com/_/status/565092314348290048)
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frederic-hemberger.de edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (+370) "Added myself as attendee" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] http://acegiak.net reshared a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/selfdogfood (http://acegiak.net/2015/02/10/7560/)
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@fhemberger I'm attending #IndieWebCamp Germany. Really looking forward to the discussions! I'll take the role of the websec party-pooper. :D +@adactio (twitter.com/_/status/565119025668427776)
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ben_thatmust good morning all
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pdurbin ben_thatmust: mornin'. how's the snow?
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ben_thatmust deep
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GWG Good morning all
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GWG ben_thatmust: Stay safe
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pfefferle good morning
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GWG Good morning, pfefferle
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GWG Post Kinds is in the repository.
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GWG Discovered I need a better explanation
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GWG Maybe I'll ask KevinMarks and tantek again, they seem good at suggestions.
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pfefferle GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 68 karma
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GWG pfefferle: Can you push an update to the Indieweb plugin?
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pfefferle GWG sure, will do this afternoon
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GWG pfefferle++
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Loqi pfefferle has 9 karma
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@wordpressites Indieweb Post Kinds https://wordpress.org/plugins/indieweb-post-kinds/#post-77573 (twitter.com/_/status/565148254589829120)
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GWG tantek: Can I ask for your help/assistance?
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GWG I forget what time it is there if you are still in Sydney.
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GWG Maybe I need a narrative
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GWG Bob wants to interact with other people using his own website. But Sue wants to do the same
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pfefferle :D
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frzn hey guys, what about jekyll and octopress in github? Seems to be a good configuration?
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frzn I'm starting to deploy my website: http://www.leal.io/
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pdurbin frzn: looks nice
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frzn pdurbin: thanks! :)
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frzn I just create also a github organization for octopress plugins to support indiewebcamp: https://github.com/indiepress
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pdurbin frzn: nice. you could also add your site to http://indiewebcamp.com/Jekyll#IndieWeb_Examples
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www.leal.io edited /Jekyll (+52) (view diff)
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frzn pdurbin: done :)
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www.leal.io edited /Jekyll (+23) (view diff)
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frzn added octopress as a tool, too.
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pdurbin frzn++
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Loqi frzn has 1 karma
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frzn pdurbin Loqi: just beginning \o
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@davidmead Hey @aaronpk. Seem to be getting an error when trying to post a webmention to your site https://aaronparecki.com/webmention/eaCtWowz http://blog.davidjohnmead.com/2015/hey-aaronpk-seem-to-be-getting-an-error-when-trying (twitter.com/_/status/565179366858977282)
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@davidmead OK @aaronpk. I just pasted my reply URL into your webmention field on the post. Maybe that's the cause of the .. http://blog.davidjohnmead.com/2015/ok-aaronpk-i-just-pasted-my-reply-url-into-your (twitter.com/_/status/565181187425980418)
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ben_thatmust !tell KevinMarks, acegiak I just fixed the serious bug logging in and rebuilt MobilePub. Apparently its possible to have cordova apps to handle intents but there are bugs specifically with images, also there is a problem with it being a 3rd party plugin so phonegap-build won't work :( I may move back to just building it on my home machine then
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben_thatmust !tell KevinMarks, acegiak cordova dev is quite simple though, i'm sure you could make it do exactly what you want in minimal time.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm ben_thatmust: aaronpk: next time you log into woodwind, it'll look up q=syndicate-to on your micropub endpoint, and give the option to syndicate when posting a like/repy
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Loqi kylewm: KevinMarks left you a message 8 hours, 27 minutes ago: how about a 'subscribe" button on the feed pages?
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kylewm you made need a hard refresh to get the new js/css
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aaronpk kylewm: !!
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ben_thatmust nice
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kylewm !tell KevinMarks sorry for being dense, a subscribe button for what/where?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm good morning snarfed!
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kylewm are you seeing this 500 error on instagram-activitystreams?
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snarfed hey kylewm! yeah, fixed in head, i'll deploy now
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snarfed they started returning null link fields in photo objects sometimes. no clue why
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kylewm in my case it's a private user
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snarfed huh, interesting
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snarfed also seen in public photos, e.g. http://instagram.com/p/hPGHleihZj/
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kylewm Page Not Found
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snarfed oh hmm, thought i checked that one
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snarfed maybe that is the cause then
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snarfed sad though, since they do still have urls that work
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kylewm right...
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kylewm seems like a bug
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snarfed in other news, fb's api makes me sadder and sadder: https://github.com/snarfed/ownyourresponses#facebook
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snarfed silo, heal thyself
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pdurbin "story": "Ryan Barrett likes a post."
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pdurbin "story": "Ryan Barrett commented on his own photo."
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kylewm and StackOverflow continues to be a big effing disappointment http://stackoverflow.com/questions/28337331/facebook-graph-api-find-graph-object-from-post-url
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pdurbin cool story, bro ;)
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pdurbin snarfed: yeah, it's be nice if you could see *what* you liked
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki commented 'We're working on it! http://indiewebcamp.com' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (https://aaronparecki.com/replies/2015/02/10/3/)
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aaronpk :)
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barnabywalters kylewm: I checked out woodwind — great work!
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barnabywalters you beat me to native micropub reader like support :)
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@davewiner IndieWeb, please use RSS. http://reader.liveblog.co/davewiner?id=1423590211000 (twitter.com/_/status/565208821250162688)
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snarfed aaaaaand that's my cue, i'm out for a day or so :P
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aaronpk snarfed: :)
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ben_thatmust weird, so i didn't notice my logic was reversed in MobilePub because.... its doing the reverse of the logic on one device, but its performing correctly on another
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ben_thatmust so confused
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@julien51 RT @davewiner: IndieWeb, please use RSS. http://reader.liveblog.co/davewiner?id=1423590211000 (twitter.com/_/status/565209227195863040)
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@davewiner @julien51 -- do you agree that IndieWeb should build on RSS? (twitter.com/_/status/565209513125752832)
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pdurbin "If you guys used RSS, all the work I'm doing would be part of all the work you're repping. Be inclusive. RSS is good shit. Use it! :-)"
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@kevinmarks @julien51 @davewiner @t @aaronpk indieweb builds on RSS by remapping it to HTML - Dave, markup with h-entry. http://www.unmung.com/feed?feed=http%3A%2F%2Fliveblog.co%2Fusers%2Fdavewiner%2Frss.xml (twitter.com/_/status/565211528807186434)
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aaronparecki.com edited /unmung (+52) "more explicit" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /RSS (+57) "/* Alternative */ unmung" (view diff)
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@RSSCircus RT @davewiner: IndieWeb, please use RSS. http://reader.liveblog.co/davewiner?id=1423590211000 (twitter.com/_/status/565212006735958016)
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KevinMarks is shrewdness down?
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Loqi KevinMarks: ben_thatmust left you a message 1 hour, 44 minutes ago: I just fixed the serious bug logging in and rebuilt MobilePub. Apparently its possible to have cordova apps to handle intents but there are bugs specifically with images, also there is a problem with it being a 3rd party plugin so phonegap-build won't work :( I may move back to just building it on my home machine then
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Loqi KevinMarks: ben_thatmust left you a message 1 hour, 42 minutes ago: cordova dev is quite simple though, i'm sure you could make it do exactly what you want in minimal time.
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Loqi KevinMarks: kylewm left you a message 1 hour, 18 minutes ago: sorry for being dense, a subscribe button for what/where?
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@gRegorLove @davewiner Indieweb sites without RSS are a minority currently. (twitter.com/_/status/565212842207371265)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /RSS (+680) "/* Indieweb Examples */ started section, added self with explanation, links to converter endpoint" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks @julien51 @davewiner @t @aaronpk here: http://reader.kylewm.com/ but it's HTML - everything can read it natively. More: http://indiewebcamp.com/reader (twitter.com/_/status/565213155995828225)
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barnabywalters hrm, I added an Indieweb Examples section to /RSS, but there’s already one on /ATOM
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barnabywalters maybe it would be better to just link to the /ATOM one, as they’re somewhat the same thing…?
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aaronpk barnabywalters: DONT TELL DAVE THAT
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barnabywalters aaronpk: :/
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barnabywalters that would be so ironic, if the fact that DRY-violating RSS and ATOM were different caused us to have to maintain DRY-violating implementation lists
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barnabywalters I’ll just add a “see also” link to both, and other people can do whatever they want
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gregorlove.com edited /RSS (+284) "/* Indieweb Examples */ +me" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks @davewiner @julien51 to support distributed, likes, comments, RSVPs etc, which was what you asked for originally http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (twitter.com/_/status/565214023549853696)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /RSS (+94) "/* Indieweb Examples */ added see also link to ATOM section" (view diff)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /Atom (+621) "/* IndieWeb implementations */ Added seealso link, improved my description" (view diff)
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gRegor` Heh, three of the "Subscribe with..." icons on my Feedburner feed are 404. Doesn't bode well for Feedburner if they're not even keeping up to date with which aggregators are still around.
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barnabywalters ^^^ anyone who publishes or consumes RSS/ATOM and wants to shout about it, add your links to https://indiewebcamp.com/RSS#Indieweb_Examples and or https://indiewebcamp.com/Atom#IndieWeb_implementations
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aaronpk gRegor`: lol!!
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barnabywalters and please don’t ask me what the difference is because I have NO IDEA
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aaronpk what is the difference between RSS and Atom?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "difference between RSS and Atom" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=difference+between+RSS+and+Atom&summary=%28prompted+by+aaronpk+https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-10/line/1423592738264%29
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gRegor` Newsgator, Bloglines, and Pageflakes: http://feeds.feedburner.com/gregorlove top right
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gRegor` barnabywalters: Maybe make /Atom section "Indieweb Examples" to match?
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Loqi [bridgy] Mathew Ingram favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/565214023549853696)
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Loqi [bridgy] Dave Winer ☮ replied '@kevinmarks @julien51 -- I think in terms of users.' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (https://twitter.com/davewiner/status/565214455697797121)
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Loqi [bridgy] Julien Genestoux replied '@kevinmarks ok, reader.kylewm.com is interesting and can consume both #hatom and #rss!' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/reader (https://twitter.com/julien51/status/565213877080977408)
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@davewiner @kylewm2 -- are you involved with IndieWeb? (twitter.com/_/status/565216227111735296)
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@kylewm2 @davewiner yes, very much involved with indieweb! (twitter.com/_/status/565216497086107648)
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KartikPrabhu seems like I walked into another feed file storm
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aaronpk no just RSS in particular
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: you can not contain a feed file storm :P
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KartikPrabhu Here comes JSON-LD :P
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Loqi [bridgy] Dave Winer ☮ replied '@kylewm2 -- there's no disconnect on goals. but as long as you guys are marketing against RSS, then there's no interop. zero.' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/reader (https://twitter.com/davewiner/status/565217471062634496)
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gRegor` ^ false
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Loqi [bridgy] Dave Winer ☮ replied '@kylewm2 -- glad to meet you. ;-)' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/reader (https://twitter.com/davewiner/status/565217122398527489)
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Loqi [bridgy] Dave Winer ☮ replied '@kylewm2 -- I'm working pretty hard building systems that are for individuals hosting web content, among other things.' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/reader (https://twitter.com/davewiner/status/565217346454032386)
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Loqi [bridgy] KyleWm replied '@kevinmarks @julien51 @t @aaronpk for what little it’s worth, I saw @davewiner’s post because I subscribe to his RSS in my indiereader :)' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/reader (https://twitter.com/kylewm2/status/565215955010084864)
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Loqi [bridgy] Dave Winer ☮ replied '@kylewm2 -- its such an uphill battle, it seems really stupid not to have our work build on each others'.' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/reader (https://twitter.com/davewiner/status/565217564532686848)
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Loqi [bridgy] Dave Winer ☮ replied '@kylewm2 -- I think you guys should be building more on RSS. that way all your stuff would work with all my stuff.' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/reader (https://twitter.com/davewiner/status/565217242053627904)
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cweiske re "what's the difference between rss and atom" - atom is a well-defined format, while RSS is actually 4 specifications
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aaronpk i thought there was only one RSS http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/rss/rss.html
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cweiske that's 2.0
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aaronpk that's all anyone cares about now right?
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cweiske there is 0.9, 0.91, 1.0 and 2.0 IIRC
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cweiske and all were built by different people
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cweiske not agreeing with each other
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cweiske 1.0 is RDF, while 2.0 has its own tag structure
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cweiske the RDF camp will use 1.0
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cweiske to be compatible, you have to support all of them
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tantek cweiske: you only have to support what people publish that you want to read
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cweiske that's the view of one of your level 1 adoptors
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tantek cweiske: right, that's to start with
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tantek then everything else is case by case
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KartikPrabhu ok here we go: https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/565223702917156866
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@kartik_prabhu Just dropped my RSS feed. Will keep Atom around for a while. (https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/no-rss) (twitter.com/_/status/565223702917156866)
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: snarfed: bridgy does not seem to be respecting the "don't include link" checkbox
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: shift-refresh your user page
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KartikPrabhu ok will do next time
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snarfed.org edited /Atom (+284) "/* IndieWeb implementations */ activitystreams-unofficial" (view diff)
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snarfed.org edited /RSS (+301) "/* Indieweb Examples */ activitystreams-unofficial" (view diff)
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: btw, wow, um, nice timing :P
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: was planning to do it for a while, and this whole thing just prompted me to do so now
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/kylewm2/status/565225174048313344
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@kylewm2 @davewiner absolutely. actually I’m writing these posts on my site and syndicating to twitter. prbly why it’s taking me so long to reply ;) (twitter.com/_/status/565225174048313344)
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aaronpk kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 114 karma
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snarfed right, sure…just not sure it was the ideal prompt for it, considering other people were trying to work with dave, not antagonize him :P
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: dropped RSS hopefully woodwind reads Atom ;)
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: someone has to be on the other side :P
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snarfed nope
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KartikPrabhu and I didn't tag it with #indieweb for that reason
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snarfed heh
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KartikPrabhu it is my decision not indiewebcamps
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aaronpk how indie of you
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snarfed of course! and i love that about indieweb
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snarfed just saying
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: yes, that was the point I was trying to make
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KartikPrabhu "indieweb does not support rss" is a weird blanket statement so...
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snarfed oh. um. yeah, that point probably didn't come across quite so loudly
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snarfed anyway
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KartikPrabhu which is fine also :)
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@davewiner @kylewm2 -- one more thing -- https://github.com/scripting/river4 -- this is a big deal. i would love to see indieweb get behind it. (twitter.com/_/status/565227746851561472)
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www.ouvre-boite.com edited /RSS (+346) "Adding more details on the ubiquity or RSS feeds" (view diff)
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www.ouvre-boite.com edited /RSS (+197) "/* Alternative */" (view diff)
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www.ouvre-boite.com edited /feed (+182) "/* Criticism */" (view diff)
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snarfed so in non RSS debate news…that PESOS as a service thing i wrote up a bit ago, https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish ?
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snarfed i hacked together a simple working standalone version, https://github.com/snarfed/ownyourresponses
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snarfed deployed for myself at ownyourresponses.appspot.com/
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kylewm your favorite UX
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kylewm NoUX :)
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snarfed lol yes
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snarfed after https://github.com/snarfed/wordpress-micropub is done, i'll port it to use micropub
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snarfed and maybe add signup UX to support other users…but no promises
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kylewm *snarfed drops mic*
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snarfed exactly!
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kylewm snarfed: I think it would be really easy to adapt https://github.com/kylewm/flask-micropub to work with webapp2
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kylewm if you do decide to add a signup flow, i'd be interested in porting it
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snarfed kylewm: interesting! as a consumer?
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snarfed sure!
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snarfed we could work on each side in parallel
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kylewm oh um it only does client stuff right now, the login flow stuff
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snarfed yup, that's all this would need
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snarfed definitely feel free to jump in on porting whenever you want
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snarfed (since i'm switching to the wp plugin now)
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GWG Snarfed, did I just see what I thought I saw?
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GWG I want in.
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GWG Snarfed, I want in
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snarfed GWG: do it!
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GWG Snarfed, I'm not sure where to start. I will watch and jump in when I can
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GWG I just want micropub on Wordpress
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: On for HWC this Wednesday, presuming we can get in? :)
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KartikPrabhu you should confirm with marcy but yeah i'll be up
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bear benwerd - is @known still using mongoDB for primary storage? if so, you may be interested in http://cispa.saarland/mongodb/
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gRegor` Already emailed her, but I'll double check she can be there to open for us.
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@Shoq .@kevinMarks @t what's participation in indieweb like thus far? Which CMS platform has the best integration to help jumpstart an IW newb? (twitter.com/_/status/565249887445741569)
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@aaronpk @Shoq @KevinMarks @t https://withknown.com/ is an out-of-the-box platform. There's also good Wordpress support with some plugins! #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/565250283480301571)
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ben_thatmust huh, interesting, found the real problem with MobilePub. PhoneGap Build wasn't pulling in the system plugins correctly, which made it very hit-and-miss with some of the features
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ben_thatmust KevinMarks Kevinmarksweb you'll have to try out MobilePub now that its working again
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benwerd_ kylewm: I'm still blown away by woodwind. Really fast, nicely implemented.
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kylewm aw, thanks so much ben!
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benwerd_ Suggestion (because I'm sure you don't have enough already): list popular feeds, or feeds that the people I subscribe to subscribe to. It'd be fun to discover new people!
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benwerd_ Because people sign in with their domains, you have an interesting opportunity to map users to sites and treat them as social profiles for discoverability
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bear should have sent this to you as a !tell benwerd_ -- is @known still using mongoDB for primary storage? if so, you may be interested in http://cispa.saarland/mongodb/
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kylewm I love that, I wonder if there is a way to do it where it wouldn't depend on them using any particular reader/instance of a reader
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benwerd_ bear: It's an option, although ~99% of users are on MySQL. Really important link - thanks!
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kylewm but just within woodwind for starters would be cool
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aaronpk benwerd_: love that idea. totally stealing it for monocle
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benwerd_ aaronpk: I'm behind. What's monocle?
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aaronpk my reader
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benwerd_ Awesome. I love that there's going to be a reader ecosystem.
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aaronpk 2015 is the year of the reader!
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benwerd_ Really exciting!
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aaronpk the great part is everyone will be able to use any of them! doesn't need to be tied to your actual site!
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benwerd_ Yep
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benwerd_ The Known reader is still happening, and will almost certainly work the same way, so I count 3 so far
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benwerd_ Which is brilliant
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aaronpk awesome
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benwerd_ 4 including barnaby's, right?
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kylewm and emma's too
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benwerd_ 5!
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aaronpk my goal is to have something running by March 17th
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snarfed any significance to that?
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aaronpk the w3c face-to-face meeting
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snarfed aha
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elf-pavlik aaronpk, barnabywalters, KevinMarks, kylewm, rektide_, voxpelli https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/User_stories#Existing_Platforms
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Loqi elf-pavlik: tantek left you a message 2 weeks ago: re: presenting MicroPub during Social WG telcon - aaronpk is on it: http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/2014-12-02#t1417546701903
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Loqi elf-pavlik: tantek left you a message on 1/18 at 4:40pm: sure - so capture it somewhere in the wiki
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elf-pavlik maybe you could document there what IndieWeb already supports?
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gRegor` aaronpk: You should aim for Pi day instead. ;)
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aaronpk gRegor`: possibly! although i'm gonna be gone the week before and might need that weekend
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@Shoq Meet the Hackers Who Want to Jailbreak the Internet [with indieweb] via @wired/2013 http://www.wired.com/2013/08/indie-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/565272219023319041)
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@kevinmarks @Shoq @aaronpk @t https://withknown.com/ definitely, though the WordPress plugins are catching up. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/565284060508217346)
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gRegor` snarfed: Bridgy polling error "datastore_v3.RunQuery() took too long to respond and was cancelled." https://www.brid.gy/log?start_time=1423604457&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyFwsSB1R3aXR0ZXIiCmdSZWdvckxvdmUM
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gRegor` I just tried the Poll Now button and it didn't seem to change anything. Still shows that last poll from 1 hour 34 min ago with the warning icon
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@aaronpk @Shoq @kevinmarks @t Check out http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people And feel free to join the conversation there! (twitter.com/_/status/565289284442546177)
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki commented '@Shoq @kevinmarks @t Check out http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people And feel free to join the conversation there!' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people (https://aaronparecki.com/replies/2015/02/10/9/)
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snarfed gRegor`: yup, app engine datastore has been mildly unhappy for a bit
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snarfed looks like roughly 12:40p-3p pst
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snarfed catching up now
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snarfed https://snarfed.org/chart.png
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benwerd_ Did the mf2 that Bridgy's sending just change for retweets / faves?
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pdurbin I'm interested in the RSS discussion but Twitter is such a terrible place to have a conversation.
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aaronpk pdurbin++
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Loqi pdurbin has 9 karma
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aaronpk you can always write a short post and link to it!
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pdurbin about my frustration of not being able to follow the conversation?
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aaronpk oh yeah
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aaronpk the threading on twitter gets really broken after a while
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pdurbin is Discourse a silver bullet?
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gRegor` I don't think so. Not any more than other forums. It's an interesting iteration on forums, but eh.
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gRegor` That's just my opinion from skimming it, not usage,so...
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pdurbin I guess it's just a hard problem.