#indiewebcamp 2015-02-13

2015-02-13 UTC
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snarfed aaronpk: huh. i just tried ownyourgram, and it seems like it didn't send an access_token
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snarfed …?
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snarfed er, an Authorization header
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bret body or head.... usually the head
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bret you can test body tokens with https://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/new/
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bret all of aaronpk's clients come in the head
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GWG snarfed: The API does go through wp.com for the Jetpack version. You can install the development version for core with doens't.
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@rockECHSprin RT @EThompson_22: #griffinpride @rockECHSprin These fabulous S's asked 2 go 2 the learning center 4 tutoring!!! #ownyourdata #success http:… (twitter.com/_/status/566039429966737410)
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kylewm.com edited /Micropub-brainstorming (+216) "/* Explicit CRUD */ note that url should be changed to mp-url, and syndicate-to to mp-syndicate-to" (view diff)
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GWG snarfed: Looking at your code. Might submit some pull requests.
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tantek good afternoon #indiewebcamp
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GWG Good timezone, tantek
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tantek what is IndyMark
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "IndyMark" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=IndyMark&summary=%28prompted+by+tantek+https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-12/line/1423790436920%29
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tantek.com created /IndyMark (+23) "r" (view diff)
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tantek is reading "today's" (PST) logs
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tantek so I'm getting tired of doing manual original post discovery from those yours' tweets that lack any kind of permashortlink or citation
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tantek thus if you're POSSE tweets/replies lack obvious citation to an original, I'm merely going to "like" the tweet when I see it, rather than the original. the lack of permashortcitation introduces too much work to find the original
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aaronpk That seems like a reasonable tradeoff Tantek
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tantek e.g. aaronpk, benwerd http://tantek.com/2015/043/f
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tantek aaronpk, I would rather like *only* the indie web post
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aaronpk snarfed: yes to clients sending no markup, there will be properties like "like-of" etc
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tantek but because discovery / viewing the tweets is still easier for me, I'm liking those instead except when they're "obviously" (by inspection) POSSE tweets
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aaronpk tantek: I expect my reader to take care of that actually
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tantek aaronpk, neither your nor benwerd's tweets are "obviously" POSSEd
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aaronpk Yeah
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tantek like not even some kind of a clue or watermark or something
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tantek when someone lands on your tweet permalink page(s), it's a dead end
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aaronpk I keep going back and forth on it honestly
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tantek aaronpk, did @tef ever show up per your and KevinMarks's requests to positively contribute to the wiki? Or does it appear https://twitter.com/tef/status/565601676145745920 was simply a throwaway complaint, without any apparent desire to correct it?
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@tef it's weird when the indieweb history lesson pretends aol, compuserve didn't exist and the social network lockin is modern (twitter.com/_/status/565601676145745920)
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tantek e.g. https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/565602416213905408
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@aaronpk @tef Feel free to fill in some more information here! http://indiewebcamp.com/history (twitter.com/_/status/565602416213905408)
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aaronpk Never heard anything
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tantek just another throwaway complaint posted silo-only.
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aaronpk Reading his other tweets it seems he likes to complain about lots of things
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tantek at least you tried aaronpk, KevinMarks
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aaronpk So meh, not really interested in engaging further
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kylewm he's an old friend of benwerd__, we learned last night
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tantek I think it's good to give people a chance like that
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tantek and then ignore further complaints when they don't respond positively to the first attempt
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benwerd__ he is
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kylewm re: posse tweets with no backlink -- I still kind of want to do posse-post-discovery as a service from bridgy
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tantek did I read the logs correctly? did snarfed ship a WordPress plugin that adds micropub support to a self-hosted WordPress install?!?
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snarfed kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 120 karma
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snarfed or even as a standalone service that shares code
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snarfed tantek: yup
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snarfed approved in wp's plugin directory too
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tantek snarfed++ whoa!!! awesome!!!
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Loqi snarfed has 82 karma
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snarfed less work than it sounds like
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snarfed thanks!
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GWG snarfed: How did you do that so quickly?
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tantek snarfed is too humble
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snarfed nah, seriously. it's 258loc
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snarfed not exactly big
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tantek GWG, because snarfed is an indieweb badass. as evidence: https://indiewebcamp.com/ownyourdata#Snarfed
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snarfed heh
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GWG I meant, it took them 4 days to approve my plugin
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tantek that's what I call setting a bar
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snarfed thanks all
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tantek (nevermind the side-effect of that is all the tools / open source he's deployed that's helped so many others)
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snarfed much appreciated
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snarfed btw, looking at https://indiewebcamp.com/micropub , it looks like ownyourgram is the only micropub client that sends photos? does anyone know of any others?
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kylewm MobilePub
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Loqi [bridgy] Tantek Çelik favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/history (https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/565602416213905408)
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tantek kylewm: the problem with having to use something explicitly (bridgy, anything) to do original post discovery on posse tweets with no backlink, is that you have to then try it ON EVERY SINGLE TWEET, "just in case"
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tantek hugely inefficient
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tantek if people don't like permashortlinks or permashortcitations, we need some sort of indie(water)mark
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tantek maybe something very generic that just indicates that the tweet is a *copy*
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snarfed tantek: an alternative is to read those people's notes in an indie reader instead of on twitter
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tantek like maybe we just all pick an emoji
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aaronpk I feel like having the perma link at the end makes people more hesitant to interact with the tweet on Twitter
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snarfed there are now a number of good working ones to choose from!
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tantek snarfed: that (use an indie reader) alternative works for the indieweb aware / active, however it does nothing for those who see tweets directly
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snarfed tantek: true
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aaronpk Especially for non-indieweb posts
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tantek e.g. in Twitter searches, Twitter embeddings on other sites, etc.
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snarfed i understand the evangelism use case, the tradeoff just doesn't work for me personally
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GWG snarfed: I'm looking at map_params
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tantek whereas if we decided on an indieweb emoji, e.g. to use as a termination character at the end of a tweet, we could use that as a clue that the tweet is a copy
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aaronpk Sorry, non IndieWeb-related posts
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snarfed i guess an emoji is no more cryptic to newbies than a PSC
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snarfed GWG: and?
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tantek snarfed, the hope is that *one* emoji character is less intrusive / confusing than a PSC
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tantek checks /principles
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snarfed understood
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snarfed neither is self explanatory, but yes, emoji is more innocuous
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GWG snarfed: I'd like to add a filter to it.
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snarfed hmm, probably not there
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snarfed what's the use case?
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tantek snarfed, if we pick well, it becomes an icon / brand
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snarfed ah then yes, eventually
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tantek some thoughts: ℹ 🌐✴✳ 🔗 📡 📠 📰
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aaronpk lol at the fax machine
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tantek yeah that's my personal favorite
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tantek for this use
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tantek "end of fax"
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tantek "this is a facsimile of an original post"
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aaronpk Oh weird, Safari ios renders those differently than from within limechat
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tantek.com edited /📠 (-4) "redirect the fax machine to POSSE, as POSSEing is the act of sending downsampled facsimiles of your content to other locations" (view diff)
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kylewm tantek: would the watermark make you want to go manually look up the original post?
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tantek that's the idea
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tantek it's also to help those who only sometimes own their notes
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tantek and sometimes tweet directly on the twitter silo
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tantek so I would know which tweets were POSSE copies
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tantek oh wait, if we used a *pair* of emoji, it would nearly eliminate false positives
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kylewm 2 could uniquely identify half a million posts...
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tantek 📠🔚
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tantek or ⎘
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tantek per http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8714969/is-there-a-unicode-character-for-copy-and-paste
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tantek !tell millette yay for HWC Montreal! Did you take a photo? Can you add to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-02-11-homebrew-website-club#Photos ?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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millette tantek, people were too shy, I have to picture of a glass ;-)
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Loqi millette: tantek left you a message 1 minute ago: yay for HWC Montreal! Did you take a photo? Can you add to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-02-11-homebrew-website-club#Photos ?
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tantek bear: that ourincrediblejourney tumblr is right there near the top of /site-deaths :) http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#Upcoming
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tantek millette: show them the photos from other HWC!
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tantek snarfed: ah I see you ran into the WordPress category vs. tag confusion
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tantek I agree with GWG. Both. But if you must pick one, tags, since category UI is poorly defined and of little use in practice.
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tantek ok all caught up on the logs so far. time to get a snack. bbiab.
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GWG I would have said, pick tags because it is most like what most people use as categories.
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tantek GWG, yes that is better reasoning. thank you.
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tantek "most like what most people use" is great user-centric thinking and reasoning. well done.
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GWG snarfed: Question about the micropub_request hook, should it have the post_ID as an argument?
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tantek GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 70 karma
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millette hmm, is there a bug tracker/feature request site for Loqi ? Perhaps it could refrain from !telling when less than 5 minutes happened or maybe 2 minutes.
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Loqi who, me?
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kylewm millette: there is, but it's not uncommon to !tell someone something and then they come online 2 minutes later
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kylewm http://indiewebcamp.com/Loqi#Ideas
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millette kylewm, good point, loqi owuld have to keep track, etc. kiss it is.
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snarfed GWG: maybe! i haven't really thought about that hook at all, i doubt it's useful
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snarfed right now i'm thinking maybe one filter, for the args that get passed to wp_insert_post etc before they're called
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snarfed and then one hook, w/post id and full micropub post body, after the post is created/updated/etc
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snarfed GWG: what's your use case?
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GWG snarfed: That was what I was thinking. Your hook isn't useful without the post id.
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GWG snarfed: But I would also add a hook to the mapping function
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snarfed GWG: again, i doubt that's the right place
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snarfed what's your use case/
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snarfed ?
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GWG The ability to customize the mapping between micropub and wordpress.
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snarfed i mean, your end user use case
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GWG For example, if I want to map it to a taxonomy on insert.
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KevinMarks_ tantek_: sanrfed was talking about liking tweets on twitter and PESOS back to own site being better ux
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KevinMarks_ oops, i shudl post my notes
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GWG Although I could do that with the action hook as an update, I suppose
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snarfed GWG: the filter i described should support that
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KevinMarks_ is a recycle emoji/unicode good for repost
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GWG I have one for you
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KevinMarks_ ♻️
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KevinMarks_ ♻︎
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GWG What if you want to set all micropub inputs to draft mode?
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snarfed GWG: sure, you'd set $args['post_status'] = 'draft' in that filter
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GWG But are you proposing a filter before or after insert_post?
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GWG I'm suggesting a filter before, and an action after
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snarfed yes, me too. i think that's what i described earlier. :P
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GWG I may have misunderstood
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GWG So, we are actually talking about the same thing.
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GWG Oh, good.
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snarfed yup
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snarfed GWG: have you tried it yet?
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GWG I need a micropub client
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snarfed plenty to choose from! https://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#Clients
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GWG I'm learning about it first.
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kylewm new twitter feature https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38780898/twitter-modal-survey.png
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tantek KevinMarks - though we have some brainstorms about using ♻️ or ♻︎ for /repost annotation, I think they may serve as more memorable icons for POSSE posts too.
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tantek POSSE posts are kind of like a special kind of repost anyway, a repost of your own content to a silo
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tantek I'm curious if any of these seem useful / (un)acceptable / (un)desirable to those of you POSSEing without a PSC/PSL
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tantek aaronpk, benwerd, kylewm, snarfed
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snarfed i like it! i don't know if i'd personally use it, but that's just because i prefer to evangelize in other ways, not by watermarking posse posts
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snarfed that's just me
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tantek KevinMarks: another possibility is to use two emoji to indicate "came from world wide web"
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aaronpk kylewm: oh god i hate those survey popups
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tantek e.g. Here's a note I posted. ⬅ 🌐
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aaronpk i added one of them to my adblock extension so i don't see them anymore
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aaronpk i noticed they were all from "foresee"
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GWG snarfed: Tested it.
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snarfed great!
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tantek or we could even use a small handful to indicate different "see originals"
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tantek e.g. This is a note I worte on my site and POSSEd. ⬅ 🌐
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kylewm tantek: I'm not sold on the emoji thing. I'd rather write "all tweets are syndicated from kylewm.com" or something in my bio
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tantek e.g. This is a tweet I PESOSed. ➡ 🌐
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aaronpk oh yeah i like the bio idea too
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tantek e.g. This is a tweet I POSSEd, and replies/faves on this tweet get backfed to my site. ↔🌐
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snarfed kylewm++
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snarfed aaronpk++
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Loqi kylewm has 121 karma
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Loqi aaronpk has 700 karma
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tantek aaronpk - problem with bio idea is yet again, you have to alway check *some other URL* to see if the tweet is POSSEd
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tantek s/alway/always
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Loqi tantek meant to say: aaronpk - problem with bio idea is yet again, you have to always check *some other URL* to see if the tweet is POSSEd
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tantek and it doesn't work for the folks who only partially own their notes
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tantek who sometimes just tweet directly on Twitter
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aaronpk I dunno, this just doesn't really seem like a priority for me
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aaronpk oops didn't mean to make tantek go away
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snarfed lol
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snarfed i do like ↔🌐
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aaronpk lol none of these show up in my terminal IRC client
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kylewm for reference https://twitter.com/kylewm2/status/566067742852128768
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@kylewm2 @kylewm2 ↔🌐 ↔🌐 ➡🌐 ⬅🌐 (twitter.com/_/status/566067742852128768)
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aaronpk the arrows show up
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snarfed heh
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aaronpk but not the globes
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snarfed kylewm: are those two bidirectional arrows different?
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kylewm snarfed: oops no
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kylewm aaronpk: the globes don't show up in hexchat on windows either
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ben_thatmust_ hey
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GWG snarfed: You've got pull
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snarfed GWG: thanks!
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GWG Not sure if it is what you were thinking.
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aaronpk snarfed: I don't see the wordpress plugin here https://wordpress.org/plugins/micropub/
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ben_thatmust_ just reading back a bit
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snarfed aaronpk: right, it's not pushed yet. just approved
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snarfed Real Soon Now
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aaronpk ahh
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ben_thatmust_ GWG, have you tried micropub clients
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ben_thatmust_ i need to add MobilePub on there
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GWG ben_thatmust_: Now I have
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kylewm GWG: how did your post get a title from quill? https://david.shanske.com/2015/02/12/micropub-test/
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GWG I added it afterward, actually.
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GWG But the plugin turns the slug into the post name
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GWG aaronpk: Responded to your question.
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GWG Idea...
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GWG snarfed: Let me run this by you. What if you store the micropub request as postmeta?
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snarfed GWG: i'm open to it, i guess
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snarfed right now i'm just going to generate html and put it into the post content
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snarfed and expose to other plugins via the filter and hook
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snarfed maybe see how far that gets us
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snarfed GWG: the pr looks good so far, but you also need to set $result on wp_insert_post and wp_trash_post, right?
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GWG snarfed: Aren't you already setting it on wp_insert_post?
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snarfed ah maybe, nm
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snarfed switching to DM
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tantek__1 switching to web UI
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tantek___ triple underscores FTW
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aaronpk oh my
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ben.thatmustbe.me created /MobilePub (+1437) "inital page for MobilePub" (view diff)
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aaronpk ben_thatmust++
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Loqi ben_thatmust has 7 karma
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /Micropub (+173) "/* Clients */ add MobilePub" (view diff)
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snarfed hey aaronpk, not sure if you saw my q earlier about ownyourgram not sending an Authorization header?
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /MobilePub (-2) "minor fix" (view diff)
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aaronpk snarfed: oh yeah
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aaronpk i'm guessing your web server is stripping it out
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snarfed ugh maybe:/
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snarfed hmm no, i can do it with curl
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /User:Ben.thatmustbe.me () "(-1372) move mobilepub to its own article" (view diff)
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aaronpk umm
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aaronpk preeeety sure it's sending it, it's still sending photos to people just fine
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snarfed yeah i bet. this is the setup test, if it matters
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aaronpk the setup test?
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snarfed during the ownyourgram wizard, it does a test post
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aaronpk ah
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ben_thatmust_ snarfed, you've had other things handle the auth header correctly right?
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aaronpk hm it uses the same code path
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snarfed ben_thatmust: yes
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ben_thatmust_ weird
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snarfed aaronpk: yeah, figured. no worries
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tantek____ and now I've implemeted RSVP no support in /Falcon
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tantek____ having finally had a real world use-case / itch for myself to scratch
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tantek____ sharing / promoting an event that I wish I could go to but can't make it to
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tantek____ http://tantek.com/2015/043/t1/sunrise6k-free-race-great-people
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tantek____ aside: return flight to SF, take two. boarded and pulled away from the gate.
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aaronpk oh that's a great reason to rsvp no
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tantek____ see you in ~14+ hours
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tantek____ aaronpk, exactly. a good reason to *publicly* RSVP no, and POSSE it!
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aaronpk yeah!
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tantek____ i.e. POSSE it as a note/reply beyond just to the event
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kylewm tantek____: is this the thing where you're going to get here 5 hours before you left?
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aaronpk time travel is weird
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tantek____ yes :)
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tantek____ it's 14:34 Friday in Sydney right now
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kylewm awesome :) have a good flight
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tantek____ thanks!
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ben_thatmust_ what were you doing in Sydney
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GWG I'm wondering if someone should write a MicroPub client that can be embedded as a WordPress plugin.
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@jevdemon @windley Finally got my head wrapped around this IndieWeb/App.Net/Known stuff and I _really_ like it. (twitter.com/_/status/566086265859108864)
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snarfed GWG: what's the use case?
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GWG A server suggests a client, at the least.
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snarfed heh, yes, but they're usually separate
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GWG snarfed: I wasn't suggesting it be in this plugin.
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GWG But a micropub client that can be embedded on a WordPress site using a WordPress shortcode is an interesting idea.
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snarfed sure! definitely an interesting idea. i guess i still don't see a use case though
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GWG snarfed: Either way, with the filter and the action hook...I could add code to support micropub to my plugin.
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snarfed definitely!
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snarfed woo it's up in the directory, https://wordpress.org/plugins/micropub/
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aaronpk snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 83 karma
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aaronpk +++++++
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aaronpk this is exciting!!
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aaronpk sadly I can't add "micropub" as a search term for Loqi because there's lots of non-indieweb usage of micropub :)
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Loqi grins profusely
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snarfed thanks!
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@aaronpk Thanks to @schnarfed, there is now a #micropub plugin for Wordpress! https://wordpress.org/plugins/micropub/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/566094154472497152)
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GWG snarfed: I added some more ideas.
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aaronpk lol I missed this from earlier
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/choochus/status/562064870594859009
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@choochus yo @indiewebcamp your domain doesn't validate Level 1 http://indiewebify.me/validate-rel-me/?url=http%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com (twitter.com/_/status/562064870594859009)
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@schnarfed RT @aaronpk: Thanks to @schnarfed, there is now a #micropub plugin for Wordpress! https://wordpress.org/plugins/micropub/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/566094589753180160)
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@indiewebcamp RT @aaronpk: Thanks to @schnarfed, there is now a #micropub plugin for Wordpress! https://wordpress.org/plugins/micropub/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/566094686700335104)
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snarfed thanks GWG!
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GWG snarfed: Not sure what you think of them
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snarfed they're good
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GWG It's keeping with the minimalist theme
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GWG Basically, provide the plumbing, but leave the rest to outside the plugin.
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snarfed if we do syndication, we'd probably want to try to detect at least the major plugins
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snarfed snap and mailchimp social
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snarfed since they won't explicitly support us
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GWG snarfed: I would disagree on that
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GWG I'm in SNAP
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snarfed you think they'd accept changes to explicitly support the micropub plugin?!
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GWG I'm not sure how davidpeach got a reference to Indieweb Taxonomy in there
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GWG http://plugins.svn.wordpress.org/social-networks-auto-poster-facebook-twitter-g/trunk/inc-cl/tw.php
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GWG Scroll to the bottom...
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aaronpk whoa!
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GWG aaronpk: Whoa what?
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aaronpk that's great!
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GWG aaronpk: I asked David Peach if he could change it. It doesn't check if the kind is a reply. So, it would set a favorite/like as a reply as well. Also, there is no documentation anywhere
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snarfed hey aaronpk, on https://ownyourgram.com/dashboard, i'm trying to parse the label for the photo param: "Photo URL (sent as a file named photo)"
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snarfed so it's…the file contents? or the string url?
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk that is confusing
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aaronpk the form field shows the URL
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aaronpk but the micropub request sends a file
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aaronpk so it will actually be a multipart post
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snarfed that's what i figured
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snarfed ok
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aaronpk in php you get the file in the $_FILES array
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snarfed thanks
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snarfed (docs for this would be nice eventually :P)
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aaronpk $_FILES['photo']
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aaronpk yeah, i tried to make the docs inline :)
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snarfed oh, i mean, http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub
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snarfed ownyourgram is very very nicely self-documenting
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aaronpk oh yeah i definitely need to work on that wiki page
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@kevinmarks RT @aaronpk: Thanks to @schnarfed, there is now a #micropub plugin for Wordpress! https://wordpress.org/plugins/micropub/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/566098511343525888)
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snarfed off topic: the curl man page's example for using —form-data sends your computer's password file to mypasswords.com
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snarfed literally, -F password=@/etc/passwd
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snarfed wtf?!?!?
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aaronpk !
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snarfed what the i don't even
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GWG snarfed: Pushed micropub into the Indieweb plugin for review.
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snarfed oh wow. thanks GWG!
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GWG snarfed: pfefferle will likely check and push tomorrow to the repository.
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GWG snarfed: Thank you for the opportunity to contribute
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snarfed welcome!
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GWG snarfed: By the way, to answer your question of earlier, why I might want to add a client is that I've wanted a simple note posting UI.
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aaronpk GWG: oh you mean like how the P2 theme has an inline posting interface on the home page?
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GWG aaronpk: That would work too.
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GWG aaronpk: But I just don't always want the full WordPress editor for jotting a single sentence or sharing a link. It's overkill
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aaronpk yeah definitely
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snarfed totally. i just suspect, if you're building that posting ui inside wordpress, it's easier and more effective to use the wp api directly, not micropub
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snarfed and you can still use other external mp clients
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aaronpk that is my thought too
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GWG I've thought of building my own posting UI. I just keep avoiding it.
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snarfed GWG: i'll suggest press this (again)
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snarfed good enough, and responsive
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snarfed spend your time building truly new functionality instead
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GWG snarfed: If the new version allows me to pass in my own parameters, which I suggested...
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@pcosdeaf RT @aaronpk: Thanks to @schnarfed, there is now a #micropub plugin for Wordpress! https://wordpress.org/plugins/micropub/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/566103846565343232)
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GWG snarfed: I have a lot of projects. Not yet returning to that one.
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snarfed hey aaronpk, you don't have a curl command handy that sends a micropub request with photo, do you?
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snarfed i tried this but i think it's wrong: curl -i -H 'Authorization: Bearer ...' -F h=entry -F content=boooo -F name=xyz -F photo=@gallery/snarfed.gif 'http://localhost/w/?micropub=endpoint'
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aaronpk that sounds like a great thing to add to the wiki page :)
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snarfed (curl can't mix -F and -d :( )
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aaronpk huh that looks like it should work, one sec
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snarfed my code doesn't find the non-photo params, but maybe my code is wrong to use parse_str()?
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aaronpk oh yeah
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aaronpk it's only in $_FILES
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aaronpk wait do you actually see anything after parse_str? i'm kind of surprised
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snarfed you mean, with -F, every param is only in $_FILES?
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aaronpk are you familiar with form-encoding vs multipart HTTP?
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snarfed probably not. i'm not getting photo from parse_str, but everything else yes
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snarfed eh not really
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snarfed i mean, at a high level yes
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snarfed i'm just not really planning to do a deep http dive here :P
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aaronpk high level is all that's really needed :)
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aaronpk a regular form-encoded request sends a string like foo=bar&bar=foo
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aaronpk but multipart is nothing like that, looks like this http://www.huyng.com/posts/under-the-hood-an-http-request-with-multipartform-data/
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aaronpk every parameter is in a separate chunk
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snarfed right
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aaronpk so i'm kind of surprised that you get anything after running parse_str from file_get_contents, but maybe php is doing something magic
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snarfed and so does micropub support both? in any combination?
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snarfed oh no i don't get anything from parse_str
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aaronpk yeah normally in PHP you get regular string values in $_POST (whether or not it's form-encoded vs multipart) and files get set in $_FILES
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snarfed sure
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snarfed ok then
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snarfed i should just drop parse_str and use _POST and _FILES
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aaronpk i think so yeah
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aaronpk it looks like wordpress might already have something to handle uploaded files? http://codex.wordpress.org/Function_Reference/media_handle_upload
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snarfed yup i'm using that. it's the other params that were missing
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snarfed i'll go rtphpfm
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aaronpk ah okay
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aaronpk snarfed: lol I just re-read your first message
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aaronpk I interpreted it backwards
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aaronpk "my code doesn't find the non-photo params"
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aaronpk simple answer: that makes sense because you won't be able to parse_str the stdin string on a multipart request
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snarfed ok
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aaronpk so use $_POST unless wordpress has a better way of getting post data
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snarfed huh yeah. why ever use parse_str then?
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aaronpk acegiak was saying something about how wordpress overrides the magic quotes thing and it's bad
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aaronpk i don't remember exactly what that ends up doing
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snarfed meh
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aaronpk IANAWPD
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snarfed me neither surprisingly
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aaronpk you're braver than me
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snarfed i pronounce it "not caring"
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snarfed :P
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aaronpk we sound super qualified to make this plugin :P
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snarfed ahahahaha
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aaronpk inspiring confidence here
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GWG You two are both very talented.
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aaronpk http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/234/765/b7e.jpg
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aaronpk oh wow I hadn't seen this yet http://newsroom.fb.com/news/2015/02/adding-a-legacy-contact/
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@MathieuCoste @xtof_fr : Grand merci á toi ... nous avons vécu un moment inoubliable et fondateur. Prêt pour l' #indieweb #love #lifedesign (twitter.com/_/status/566124591236788224)
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@hmans If you ever find yourself implementing IndieWeb, build the receiving part first, sending later. (twitter.com/_/status/566130995221757952)
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@monoxyd RT @hmans: If you ever find yourself implementing IndieWeb, build the receiving part first, sending later. (twitter.com/_/status/566131487817625601)
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hmans that's right
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acegiak lol, i am booting up my laptop to reply to a couple of tweets because the ux i have on there with greasemonkey extensions is so much better than trying to do it on my phone
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acegiak huh. this the first time ive found myself wanting to multireply
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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@kevinmarks “The more people+organizations that are involved in the distributed Web, the safer+faster it will become.” #indieweb http://blog.archive.org/2015/02/11/locking-the-web-open-a-call-for-a-distributed-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/566149022449012736)
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@Todoleo RT @kevinmarks: “The more people+organizations that are involved in the distributed Web, the safer+faster it will become.” #indieweb http:/… (twitter.com/_/status/566149852204400640)
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danielkoening.de edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (+247) "Adding Daniel Koening as an Attende" (view diff)
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@silentdan I'm attending IndieWebCamp Germany 2015, 9th-10th May 2015 in Dusseldorf http://lanyrd.com/2015/indiewebcampger/ (twitter.com/_/status/566165174986768384)
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KevinMarks_ https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/566157173525196800
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@kevinmarks Notes from Wednesday night's Homebrew Website Club in SF on my site: http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2015-02-11.html (twitter.com/_/status/566157173525196800)
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@bookprescom Social Media Newsfeed: Facebook Mobile | Tumblr Long Form >> http://www.adweek.com/socialtimes/?p=613860&utm_content=buffer9905a&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #SocialMedia Tip from Tim Sohn. #SelfPublish #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/566175021106995200)
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@401matthall RT @kevinmarks: “The more people+organizations that are involved in the distributed Web, the safer+faster it will become.” #indieweb http:/… (twitter.com/_/status/566180791613661184)
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KevinMarks_ https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/566187025372422144
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@kevinmarks How will we archive all information and make this knowledge accessible? http://www.kevinmarks.com/archiving.html for Netgain Challenge http://netgainchallenge.org/ (twitter.com/_/status/566187025372422144)
arlen, michielbdejong, elima, LauraJ, Erkan_Yilmaz, friedcell, squeakytoy, frzn, friedcell1 and benjamin-agaric joined the channel
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@barryf Announcing Micropublish: the tool I use to post on my personal #indieweb site via #micropub https://micropublish.herokuapp.com/about https://barryf.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/micropublish.png (twitter.com/_/status/566226991460794368)
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@hmans RT @barryf: Announcing Micropublish: the tool I use to post on my personal #indieweb site via #micropub https://micropublish.herokuapp.com/about https://t.c… (twitter.com/_/status/566233468594839552)
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hmans that's right
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barryf Hey hmans.
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Loqi barryf: snarfed left you a message 3 weeks ago: hey bridgy publish users, i'd love to know what you think: https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish
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hmans barryf \o/
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barryf Yikes! Not been here for a while.
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barryf Nice to see another Ruby indieweb project, hmans
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hmans Pants \o/
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barryf pants looks great
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hmans Thanks. Are you looking at github.com/hmans/pants or indiepants?
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hmans I'm doing a rewrite (indiepants). The original project started out as a non-Indieweb project and contains a lot of baggage from the olde times.
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barryf Your original one. Ooh, I'll check out indiepants too.
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hmans indiepants isn't really functional yet, but there's a nice summary of how I'm building it at https://github.com/hmans/indiepants/blob/master/SUMMARY.md
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barryfrost.com edited /Micropub (+312) "/* Clients */ Adding Barry Frost's Micropublish" (view diff)
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GWG Good morning, all
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hmans GWG \o/
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david.shanske.com edited /Micropub (-6) "/* WordPress */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /Getting_Started_on_WordPress (+146) "/* Plugins */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /Getting_Started_on_WordPress (-1) "/* = Publish to Your Site */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /Getting_Started_on_WordPress (+2) "/* Publish to Your Site */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /Getting_Started_on_WordPress (+0) "/* Publish to Your Site */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /Getting_Started_on_WordPress (-74) "/* Send and receive responses with your site */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /WordPress_Plugins (-27) "/* Micropub */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /WordPress_Plugins (+23) "/* Micropub */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme good morning
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hmans This is great: http://pants.morgvom.org/dfw054
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GWG Good morning ben_thatmustbeme
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@hmans Pants and IndieWeb being awesome: http://t.co/bTUYkawf7y (twitter.com/_/status/566248550259257345)
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hmans yup
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david.shanske.com edited /WordPress_Plugins (+12) (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme !tell kylewm woodwind seems to have stopped confirming my posts. I replied to a post and got no feed back, but it did post on my end ??
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG !tell acegiak Wanted to ask your opinion on some features for Post Kinds.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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david.shanske.com edited /Post_Kinds_Plugin (+592) (view diff)
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme: did you do a hard refresh to get updated JavaScript?
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Loqi kylewm: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 6 minutes ago: woodwind seems to have stopped confirming my posts. I replied to a post and got no feed back, but it did post on my end ??
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ben_thatmustbeme just did, that was strange
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ben_thatmustbeme its working now
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aaronpk barryf: your app looks great!
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aaronpk congrats!
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barryf Oh, thanks aaronpk!
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barryf Did it work for you?
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aaronpk i've just seen the screenshots and code for now
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aaronpk whoa are you using something in particular that requires ruby 2.2.0?
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barryf Not particularly, just haven't tested below that.
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barryf Should be OK for 2.0+
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aaronpk cool i'm trying it on 2.1.3 on my laptop
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GWG kylewm: Why, now that I enabled Micropub on your reader, do I have two like buttons?
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ben_thatmustbeme wow snarfed you even supported update and delete with the wordpress plugin
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ben_thatmustbeme nice
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: Now I have to add support.
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aaronpk ha wow I don't even have support for updating posts in my own micropub endpoint
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ben_thatmustbeme what clients do delete and update?
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ben_thatmustbeme i don't know of any other than mine
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aaronpk me either
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kylewm GWG: if your micropub advertised syndication targets it would make a little more sense -- the first Like buttons opens the syndication buttons and the second like button. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38780898/woodwind-like-with-syndication.png
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kylewm GWG: (i am not happy with that UX yet)
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barnabywalters kylewm: woah that’s cool
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barnabywalters are the syndication options also filtered by the syndication destinations of the target post?
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barnabywalters if the post you’re liking doesn’t exist on facebook, then there’s no point showing the facebook option, even in the user’s micropub endpoint supports it
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ben_thatmustbeme i don't know about that
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barnabywalters s/in/if
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Loqi barnabywalters meant to say: if the post you’re likifg doesn’t exist on facebook, then there’s no poift showifg the facebook option, even if the user’s micropub endpoift supports it
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barnabywalters heh
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ben_thatmustbeme bridgy doesn't support it, but i could write my own that says "I like this" and cites it
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aaronpk that's not really a "like" then, that's just a post
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barnabywalters yeah, that seems a bit forced
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kylewm I was just thinking about that... I think it should probably be up to the site itself to make that decision
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ben_thatmustbeme the syndication form in a post
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ben_thatmustbeme the indieweb version is a like
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barnabywalters generally I’m quite conservative about syndication destination UIs (probably as I have very few external accounts)
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barnabywalters in most cases I want my publishing software to figure out where things should be syndicated to rather than having to choose them when publishing
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barnabywalters but I do tend to publish a less diverse range of posts than many others here
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ben_thatmustbeme better case might be replies, I want to post a reply to a website, but syndicate to twitter, bridgy doesn't like this because it can't find the tweet i'm replying to, but i still want a short version of my comment on twitter saying i replied to some url
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aaronpk huh, I actually want the opposite
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aaronpk I don't post to twitter if i'm replying to something that was not on twitter
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barnabywalters aaronpk: agreed, although currently I have to manually specify this by adding a #notweet tag. Better way would just be to detect non-twitter.com in-reply-to URL. does p3k do this automatically?
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kylewm another use case might be bookmarks, where you can posse them as a note like e.g. https://twitter.com/adactioLinks
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aaronpk barnabywalters: yeah I have some JS that matches the URL i'm replying to and checks or unchecks the syndication targets
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, i post articles that are in reply to articles online, by definition its a reply, but i want links to my article syndicated
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barnabywalters the nice thing about the design of micropub syndication queries (good job whoever did that — aaronpk?) is that my software doesn’t have to specify any if I want it to handle all syndication automatically
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aaronpk articles fall into a different category for me
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aaronpk like sometimes I think of my tweet to an article not as the twitter-copy of the article but as a separate note that links to my own article
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barnabywalters but clients should respect that and streamline the UI, allowing single-click likes in the case that a single click would usually bring up a syndication UI
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barnabywalters aaronpk: by “tweet to an article” you’re referring to the POSSE copy of the article?
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aaronpk yeah
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kylewm barnabywalters: I agree, though I think it's more likely I will shrink the syndication buttons and just make them always visible, so Like will go back to one-click for everyone
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ben_thatmustbeme oh, other example of liking data not on the platform, Google+, you can +1 any external URL
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aaronpk G+ is a good example
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barnabywalters ben_thatmust: if only G+ could be POSSEd to without ridiculous workarounds :)
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ben_thatmustbeme think more of the "Thumbs up" button on websites
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ben_thatmustbeme thats the FB equivalent
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barnabywalters tangentially related: regarding syndication target discovery (http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#Discovering_Supported_Syndication_Targets), any particular reason a URL-encoded string is used as the response as opposed to simply newline-separated URLs?
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aaronpk yeah because that way it's consistent with the response of the rest of the micropub requests
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GWG kylewm: I filed the issue. But where in the spec does it talk about posting Likes to your site?
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kylewm because aaronpk is the davewiner of x-www-form-encoded
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aaronpk so you could have a micropub client library that handles encoding and decoding requests
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aaronpk kylewm: lololol
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kylewm ;)
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aaronpk except i didn't invent x-www-form-encoded
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barnabywalters there are other micropub GET requests?
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barnabywalters oh yeah I see the authentication checking one returning user details
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aaronpk the POST requests also return a response
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GWG You are all making me think I should go back to projects that work on metadata.
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ben_thatmustbeme barnabywalters, some of us started playing with /mp-config
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ben_thatmustbeme though i am thinking i will next start on some sort of config management equivalent
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barnabywalters huh? on /micropub only blank or HTML POST responses seem to be documented
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barnabywalters oooh /mp-config is cool
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gRegor` aaronpk: You could invent x-www-form-encoded 2.0
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gRegor` What is x-www-form-encoded?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "x-www-form-encoded" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=x-www-form-encoded&summary=%28prompted+by+gRegor`+https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-13/line/1423843181420%29
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aaronpk gRegor`: lol so not going there
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gRegor` :D
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ben_thatmustbeme although i wonder if a config endpoint is duplicating efforts of mp endpoint at some spots
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barnabywalters awesome that there’s a discoverable way for clients to provide action UIs without demanding post or edit permissions on the user’s site
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aaronpk barnabywalters: oh you're right, the only part of the response clients care about is the Location header
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ben_thatmustbeme or if it would be more like h=config or something like that
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ben_thatmustbeme i don't think i would go that route though
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barnabywalters aaronpk: I have nothing in particular against x-www-form-encoded (except the name of the MIME type), just pointing out potential simplifications
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aaronpk barnabywalters: the main reason for using it is to not invent random encoding schemes that require custom parsers to be written
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barnabywalters especially given the mixed support for blahblah[] parsing in query strings
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barnabywalters aaronpk: not random or invented, pre-existing and part of in-use web standards: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Guide/HTML/Recommended_Drag_Types#Dragging_Links
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barnabywalters text/uri-list
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barnabywalters but consistency often > simplicity in cases like this
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aaronpk come to think of it, because there is a little bit of inconsistency in how parsers handle [] it would be worth formally documenting how micropub expects it as part of the micropub spec
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waterpigs.co.uk created /x-www-form-encoded (+35) "(prompted by gRegor" (view diff)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /x-www-form-encoded (-9) "Bypassed double redirect" (view diff)
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waterpigs.co.uk created /form-encoding (+26) "Redirected page to [[form-encoded]]" (view diff)
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GWG I've decided on my project for the weekend.
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GWG I'm going to fix Syndication Links.
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GWG Better go do my errands so I can get to that.
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki commented 'Use full URL for client_id. If you use a full URL for , then you can get the IndieAuth server to show app info during authorizat...' on a post that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/h-x-app (https://aaronparecki.com/replies/2015/02/13/1/)
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@mapkyca Just in case you missed it, here's a (nearly) complete flickr import for @withknown: https://www.marcus-povey.co.uk/2015/02/12/import-your-flickr-photos-into-known/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/566278662300110848)
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KartikPrabhu holy! flickr imports batman!
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@andkjaer 8 Mobile Landing Pages Get Spanked for Conversion’s Sake >> http://www.searchenginejournal.com/?p=123651&utm_content=buffere1cf4&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #SocialMedia Tip from Casey Ark. #SelfPublish #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/566300786330976258)
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GWG snarfed: I may need your help with something.
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snarfed GWG: shoot
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GWG I've decided what on my list I'm going to tackle next
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GWG I'm going to work on getting the rest of my work to a point where I can post a stable copy to the repository
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GWG The next one is a plan to merge the functionality of the jihaisse syndication plugin with mine. So one plugin addresses both use cases.
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snarfed wow ok!
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snarfed why merge?
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GWG The major difference is that my plugin stores the individual URLs and the other plugin stores the complete mark up.
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snarfed ok…but they provide for the same use case?
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GWG Adding rel-syndication links to a WordPress post. Yes.
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snarfed ok. i guess i'm still missing the motivation for merging then
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snarfed but no matter
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snarfed was there a question?
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GWG snarfed: I think it is easier to maintain one thing than two?
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@MicropubInfo micropub: Tagged with “micropub”. Announcing Micropublish: the tool I use to post on my personal #indieweb sit... https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=https://barryfrost.com/tag/micropub&ct=ga&cd=CAIyHDNlNjg4ODQzODIxNzA0ZmU6Y28udWs6ZW46R0I&usg=AFQjCNFwl3XLPD6N2Sq6RM_LZdgOYXg_Qw&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (twitter.com/_/status/566304632134062080)
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GWG You contributed the Bridgy code for the plugin.
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GWG I spoke to the other two contributors to the plugin. I wanted to list you as a contributor and didn't want to do that without asking.
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aaronpk lol I like how @micropubinfo is picking up indieweb tweets now
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GWG snarfed: Would you rather be uncredited?
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snarfed GWG: sorry, back
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snarfed credit is fine, thanks!
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GWG snarfed: Missed that you left.
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snarfed and re maintaining 1 vs 2, eh. sounds like a low priority since they're both small and low maintenance burden and it wouldn't add any new functionality
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snarfed but up to you
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GWG snarfed: Actually, I have plans for functionality
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snarfed i'd suggest focus on new functionality, not refactoring or redesigning or rewriting
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snarfed ah, great! maybe just add that then?
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GWG I think jihaisse has stopped development of the other one anyway
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GWG I'm adding the functionality the other plugin already has to mine, then building on it.
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ben_thatmustbeme quiet afternoon
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gRegor` ::crickets::
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@kylewm2 @ifwinterends it might happen! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-11/line/1423696354568 (twitter.com/_/status/566332765725921280)
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Loqi [mention] Kyle Mahan commented '@ifwinterends it might happen! indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-11/line/1423696354568' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-11/line/1423696354568 (https://kylewm.com/2015/02/ifwinterends-it-might-happen-http-indiewebcamp-com)
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ben_thatmustbeme drops a pin
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aaronpk i think i heard something
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ben_thatmustbeme was it me typing "/me drops a pin" ?
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ben_thatmustbeme so how long before we make a private IRC that somehow requires indieauth to join?
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gRegor` For what purpose?
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KevinMarks_ something to use http://stream.withknown.com/2015/build-awesome-php-web-applications-using-known-as-a-framework for
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ben_thatmustbeme not for this room, but for private chats
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KevinMarks_ hm, I got all set up to do gillmor gang, then realised that I didn't get a ping for it this week
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ben_thatmustbeme ouch
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@jgarber @AaronGustafson I thiiiiiink I also got a webmention last night pointing to `/notebook/foo` that should’ve been `/notebook/links/foo`. (twitter.com/_/status/566355088268992512)
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@AaronGustafson @jgarber I’ll double check my webmention script. I may need to make it aware of the other script that subdivides the links in to a folder. (twitter.com/_/status/566355641317736450)
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aaronpk now i'm getting delayed push notifications from the twitter app. like push notificatinos i got yesterday
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KevinMarks_ lots of people saying so. iOS?
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aaronpk yeah
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KevinMarks_ https://twitter.com/GlennF/status/566359205221658624
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@GlennF Thanks, Twitter app, for days old notifications. Someone must have kicked a broken server. (twitter.com/_/status/566359205221658624)
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KevinMarks_ hm, getting repeated web notifcations on chrome too
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aaronpk from twitter?
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KevinMarks_ yes
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aaronpk heh someone's having a bad day I bet
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aaronpk heh I started writing a github issue for Monocle and realized I was essnetially writing a blog post...
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aaronpk so... new blog post forthcoming
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andysylvester.com edited /River4 (+68) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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andysylvester.com edited /River4 (+0) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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andysylvester.com edited /River4 (+27) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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snarfed aaronpk etc: for multi-valued micropub params, it looks like both array syntax and comma-separated should be supported...right?
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snarfed e.g. category. https://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#h-entry implies array syntax, but language elsewhere implies comma separated also
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aaronpk we are tryign to switch to just array syntax
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aaronpk but I haven't tracked down all occurrences of comma-separated
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aaronpk the only trick is I still thing comma separated is useful for tags
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aaronpk but not for anything else
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snarfed ok i'll just do array
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KevinMarks_ multivalued is actually correct syntax, but PHP is dumb
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KartikPrabhu so why are we bending over for PHP?
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KevinMarks_ 'cos lots of PHP is there
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KartikPrabhu <sigh>
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aaronpk kinda hard to ignore
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aaronpk pretty sure php still runs most of the internet
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KartikPrabhu yes but not a whole lot of them do micropub
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KevinMarks_ can php not be tight to understand &tag=red&tag=blue is {"tag":["red","blue"]}
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KevinMarks_ s/tight/taught/
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Loqi KevinMarks_ meant to say: can php not be taught to understand &tag=red&tag=blue is {"tag":["red","blue"]}
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aaronpk i'm sure someone's written an alternate parser that does that
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KartikPrabhu can't PHP people write "special code" to deal with their fav language instead of everyone else doing it
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KevinMarks_ interesting from Paul Kinlan http://paul.kinlan.me/what-happened-to-web-intents/
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andysylvester.com edited /River4 (+183) "/* Other Examples */" (view diff)
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