#indiewebcamp 2015-03-22

2015-03-22 UTC
zachdonovan and j12t joined the channel
#
snarfed
hey aaronpk, mind reconnecting your instagram on bridgy? it's been unhappy for a day or so, and i'm not sure why. 400s from the instagram api.
#
GWG
snarfed: Isn't he in Europe?
#
snarfed
GWG: yup
#
GWG
snarfed: Any news?
#
snarfed
GWG: can you elaborate?
KartikPrabhu1 joined the channel
#
GWG
snarfed: Just in general. I have time. Still trying to get home from Indiewebcamp
#
GWG
It's given me a lot of time to think on what I want to do next
#
snarfed
great!
#
GWG
I wasn't sure what was on your mind. Any new projects? I'm still in camp mode
#
snarfed
let's see
#
snarfed
i set up real monitoring and alerting for bridgy and huffduff-video
#
GWG
For users or you?
#
snarfed
oh, me
#
snarfed
otherwise mostly non-indieweb. https://snarfed.org/2015-03-15_new-job
j12t joined the channel
#
GWG
Home...finally.
#
GWG
But...I got a lot of reverse geolocation UI testing tme
j12t, marclaporte, snarfed, hongpong, mdik_ and wagle joined the channel
#
GWG
kylewm: How do you generate your static maps?
alanpearce and gRegor` joined the channel
#
@tidak_hanya
RT @metrotipu: #BeritaBohong #PimredGendut #MediaBlackout #JurnalismeBusuk @RepublikBoneka #BoikotDetikCom @PresidenBoneka #IndieWeb http:/…
(twitter.com/_/status/579485740196745217)
marclaporte, snarfed and tantek joined the channel
#
tantek
GWG, great to see/hear about your progress on location / checkins!
#
GWG
tantek: I'll get there
marclaporte, hongpong, KartikPrabhu, frzn and alanpearce joined the channel
#
gregorlove.com
edited /User:Gregorlove.com (+28) "/* Interests */"
(view diff)
KartikPrabhu, wolftune, martinBrown, j12t, snarfed and dariusdunlap joined the channel
j12t_, ben_thatmustbeme, icco, j12t, nloadholtes, alanpearce and eschnou joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu
phew! auto-embeding vimeo videos in notes response context: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/the-putter
j12t and tantek joined the channel
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: I'm not seeing any of the flickr embeds - they're all black rectangles to me
#
tantek
do they require JS perhaps?
#
KartikPrabhu
aah yes stupid flickr wants a player script to be downloaded!
#
tantek
(which is pretty dumb for embedding *an image* !!!)
#
KartikPrabhu
I know. I can just put the images in, but flickr gives no sane way to get alt-text and title etc...
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: how would you do it indie to indie?
#
KartikPrabhu
good point must think about that
#
KartikPrabhu
i would probably grab the u-photo element and go from there
#
KartikPrabhu
judas priest. Vimeo video works without JS but not Flickr image embed
#
Loqi
flickr has -1 karma
eschnou and loic_m joined the channel
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: what I mean about indie to indie is, perhaps document that in /photo#Brainstorming - e.g. "How to embed" and "How to make embeddable"
#
KartikPrabhu
will play around with some examples to see what actually is the problem, and then add them there
j12t joined the channel
#
tantek
and feel free to add to /Flickr#Criticism too as far as their dependence on JS for embedding a simple static image
#
KartikPrabhu
what is flickr
#
Loqi
Flickr is a silo for storing and organizing photos and short (max 90sec) & small (max 150MB) videos https://indiewebcamp.com/Flickr
#
kartikprabhu.com
edited /Flickr (+173) "criticism of embed code"
(view diff)
#
@kartik_prabhu
playing with @Flickr photo embeds on site. Why does a simple photo embed need Javascript!? #indieweb… (https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/flickr-embed-js)
(twitter.com/_/status/579564248826695681)
#
KartikPrabhu
snarfed: even after hard refresh bridgy does not seem to respect the "don't include link" thing
#
@javascriptd
RT @kartik_prabhu: playing with @Flickr photo embeds on site. Why does a simple photo embed need Javascript!? #indieweb… (https://t.co/GjVB…
(twitter.com/_/status/579565471294312449)
#
KartikPrabhu
hehe! does that account simply retweet anything with "javascript" in it? :P
#
KartikPrabhu
(04:02:48 AM) Divya T
catsup joined the channel
#
@adactio
@pwcc No, I’m PESOSing from Instagram to my own site with https://ownyourgram.com/ (a great tool by @aaronpk that uses indieauth + micropub).
(twitter.com/_/status/579578555262222337)
friedcell, lukebrooker and j12t joined the channel
#
@textformer
Um 12 Uhr mache ich im Sofaraum (158) etwas Werbung fürs #indieweb (eigenes Blog > Social Media). #bcruhr8
(twitter.com/_/status/579596527695458305)
elf-pavlik joined the channel
alanpearce joined the channel
csarven and friedcell joined the channel
#
@Pixelkurier
RT @StanVitte: .@textformer erklärt #Indieweb: own your content, own your data. Mehr: http://www.indiewebcamp.de #posse #bcruhr8 http://t.co/cG…
(twitter.com/_/status/579603714161438720)
alanpearce joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme
good morning #indiewebcamp
j12t, almereyda, uhsf, loic_m, wolftune and Garbee joined the channel
frzn, friedcell, petermolnar, dariusdunlap and hongpong joined the channel
#
GWG
And life continues...
snarfed, zachdonovan, wolftune, friedcell, glennjones and j12t joined the channel
#
Loqi
slack/snarfed: kartikprabhu: sorry for the trouble!
#
Loqi
slack/snarfed: hmm, i was able to preview without links on both my account and yours
torrorist and snarfed joined the channel
#
Loqi
slack/snarfed: er, s/buy/not/
cuibonobo, hongpong, friedcell, alanpearce, gRegor` and snarfed joined the channel
#
gRegor`
kylewm: I used your site search to try to find an original of https://snarfed.org/easy-indieweb-interactions-on-android#comment-2583694. There were no results, but no message to that effect either. Just FYI if you wanted to add a message.
#
gRegor`
snarfed are your wm moderated? I got a 200, but it hasn't shown up on https://snarfed.org/easy-indieweb-interactions-on-android
#
snarfed
gRegor`: no, my caching is just dumb and overly aggressive. i need to fix it, i'm just lazy and not sure how. thanks for the nudge, on my todo list now
#
gRegor`
Ah. W3 Total Cache?
#
snarfed
super cache
wolftune joined the channel
#
snarfed
i like it because it renders to static html and serves that via apache/htaccess, skips running php at all for most pages
#
GWG
snarfed: I sort of worry about an app that has Google Buzz enabled by default
#
snarfed
but wms dont' clear it :/
#
gregorlove.com
edited /User:Gregorlove.com (+160) "/* Completed */"
(view diff)
#
snarfed
GWG: umm...context?
#
gregorlove.com
edited /User:Gregorlove.com (-14) "/* Completed */"
(view diff)
#
GWG
snarfed: The article gRegor` just linked to of yours from a while back. I was wondering out loud
#
snarfed
gRegor`: fixed
#
gRegor`
Oh yeah, Bookmarklet free has a "Google Buzz" option that's on by default, heh.
#
snarfed
GWG: sounds like a pretty minor concern. the app works, which is all i care about
#
gRegor`
Same. I'm only using it to reply on my site.
#
gRegor`
Interestingly it shows up in the share menu as just "My Services", but that's minor.
#
GWG
snarfed: I just worry it will break as no one is maintaining it.
#
snarfed
GWG: maybe! i'll worry about that if/when it actually breaks
#
GWG
That won't stop me either way
#
gRegor`
I think Android would have to majorly change some things to break that app
#
snarfed
gRegor`: interesting, you use p-in-reply-to, not u-, which is why your reply's content doesn't show up on my post
#
snarfed
(i'm guessing)
#
gRegor`
tries to remember why I'm doing that
#
gRegor`
The nested h-cite?
#
gRegor`
Instead of in-reply-to returning a URL or array of URLs
#
gRegor`
I can't remember why I'm doing it that way. Perhaps in preparation for adding the contents of the reply-context
#
gRegor`
cowboy microformats
dariusdunlap joined the channel
#
snarfed
looking at https://kylewm.com/services/mf2?url=http://gregorlove.com/notes/2015/03/22/1/ , looks like the difference is that the in-reply-to prop is a compound object, not a plain string
#
snarfed
which is maybe technically valid. consider filing an issue against https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-semantic-linkbacks ?
#
snarfed
backs away slowly
#
gRegor`
Hah
#
snarfed
GWG might be interested
#
GWG
snarfed: Haven't I bothered that poor man enough?
#
gRegor`
will file it
#
GWG
I'm kidding. But I will second it, as I think I am using p as well
snarfed and dariusdunlap joined the channel
#
voxpelli
GWG: gRegor`: Just looked at my webmention code and it supports such in-reply-to markup so yeah, file a feature request to pfefferle :)
#
GWG
Pfefferle is moving right now. Might be a bit.
#
gRegor`
That's fine. I just won't reply to snarfed for now. :) jk
#
gRegor`
This Bookmarklet Free thing is going to make replying from Twitter app so much easier
#
gRegor`
snarfed++
#
Loqi
snarfed has 95 karma
#
Loqi
slack/snarfed: nice!
#
ben_thatmustbeme
woo, all php-mf2 unit tests passing on my machine
#
ben_thatmustbeme
on my mac i get one failing, oddly, apparetnly it reaplces user:@.... with user@ when there is no PW
j12t joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i want to say bigbluehat would have something to say on that case
#
GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: You recovered yet?
tjgillies2 and magmapants joined the channel
#
kylewm
that's strange I've been able to reply to snarfed before, with a reply context
friedcell, magmapants and marclaporte joined the channel
#
GWG
kylewm: It isn't that
#
GWG
!tell snarfed It is a bug pfefferle introduced in the last version
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
magmapants joined the channel
#
GWG
kylewm: I asked you a question, I guess you weren't around.
magmapants, loic_m, hongpong and yakker_ joined the channel
#
aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: are you gonna start hacking on php-mf2?
snarfed, cuibonobo, KartikPrabhu, hongpong, tfontaine and alanpearce joined the channel
#
zachdonovan
kylewm: heads up, kylewm.com returns a 500 for me right now
petermolnar joined the channel
#
petermolnar
!tell pfefferle https://pfefferle.github.io/openwebicons/ fails to load some assets from http sources on https; you should probably take a look at it
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
GWG
Hello, petermolnar.
j12t joined the channel
#
GWG
petermolnar: Available for brain picking?
hongpong joined the channel
tfontaine and benwerd joined the channel
#
GWG
What is it supposed to symbolize?
#
GWG
aaronpk: Are you your logo designer?
#
GWG
It reminds me of the pattern people draw to unlock their phones
#
aaronpk
i pretend i can design things sometimes
#
aaronpk
it's supposed to be a patch panel
#
petermolnar
GWG back, sorry, I was away for dinner
#
petermolnar
define brain picking
eschnou joined the channel
#
GWG
aaronpk: You need a patch cable then, I thin
#
GWG
petermolnar: I'm working on a new WordPress Indiewebish plugin as part of my trip to IWC. I wanted thoughts
#
GWG
No testing required right now
#
petermolnar
what would it do?
raretrack joined the channel
#
@raretrack
Q: if I want @withknown #Known and @ownclouders #OwnCloud hosted on the same site, would I need something like @IndieHosters ? #IndieWeb
(twitter.com/_/status/579729115109982208)
j12t joined the channel
#
GWG
petermolnar: It adds location to posts and pages. But this is the question
#
GWG
WordPress has a geodata parameter to store things. It uses freeform text for the address, whereas microformats require structured data.
wolftune joined the channel
#
petermolnar
I'm not that familiar with geodata; I'd store everything in longitude and latitude and transform it on the fly, but that probably requires 3rd party service
#
petermolnar
otherwise the internationalization will be an issue
#
petermolnar
for example, I live at a place which only has a name and not a number as house "number"
#
@mapkyca
Sweet! This tweet was sent via my known site on the command line! #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/579735031284912128)
#
GWG
petermolnar: I'm working on the logic to turn the various returned fields into the appropriate microformats ones. So I've added the entire h-adr structure as post meta.
#
GWG
I don't want to request the data on load, only on save/publish so it will be stored with the post, and then it can be manually edited by the user if they don't like the return.
#
petermolnar
sounds reasonable
yakker and friedcell joined the channel
#
GWG
petermolnar: I'm also allowing that a Page(as opposed to a Post) with location information can be classified as a venue.
#
GWG
Which may create some issues in markup.
cuibonobo joined the channel
#
GWG
petermolnar: I've been building pieces of this and trying out how the UI should work. My goal is to make it fit in neatly.
#
petermolnar
let me know if I can help somehow
#
GWG
petermolnar: When I get it to a certain point, I may ask you to test it and give me your opinion. Creating a location solution for WordPress is hard.
#
GWG
petermolnar: There is the Geolocation plugin, but it was missing two things I considered critical. One was HTML5 geolocation support.
#
petermolnar
I know, I've tried 3 times; one time I was looking for a working point it on the map solution, another was to get venues & similar
j12t joined the channel
#
petermolnar
the Geolocation plugin is a mess
#
KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: the "S" is a little too fragmented
butterwell joined the channel
#
cuibonobo
i've noticed an interesting thing that I wanted to bounce off of y'all
#
GWG
petermolnar: Will keep you posted.
#
cuibonobo
visiting the /irc/today page, I noticed my Privacy Badger extension detected some trackers
#
petermolnar
since I have a tendency to miss messages here, please poke me on hello@petermolnar.eu :)
#
cuibonobo
here's what it shows for me: https://i.imgur.com/ROjxVzs.png
#
KartikPrabhu
hmmm oh no aaronpk and kylewm are tracking us!!!
#
cuibonobo
seems like it's detecting images from other domains as 'trackers', but i'm not sure why only aaronpk and kylewm show up
#
KartikPrabhu
actually I am curious as to what those trackers are
#
cuibonobo
presumably, everybody that points their avatar to their domain should be counted as a 'tracker', so why does it count only these two?
#
KartikPrabhu
yeah i was looking at the src to check that
#
KartikPrabhu
ben_thatmustbeme also has his avatar from his own site
#
snarfed
cuibonobo: sounds like a Privacy Badger implementation detail. probably not very meaningful or worth investigating deeply
#
GWG
petermolnar: I also need to design something that works with or without my other plugins, which is always interesting.
#
Loqi
snarfed: GWG left you a message 3 hours, 31 minutes ago: It is a bug pfefferle introduced in the last version http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-22/line/1427044863181
#
petermolnar
GWG I know that problem; once I've tried to make a common abstract class and I hit the wall with PHP whereas it cannot re-declare an abstract class... I'd say copy-paste is your friend, sadly.
#
GWG
petermolnar: More I need to figure out progressive enhancement
#
cuibonobo
it seems to be that other people have a generic image name like 'profile.jpg' or 'icon_64.png', while aaronpk and kylewm have their name, plus a number
#
cuibonobo
having a more unique image name makes it look like it's being used for tracking purposes
#
cuibonobo
*shrug*
#
GWG
cuibonobo: It shouldn't matter though, should it?
#
cuibonobo
GWG: not really. just a curiosity
j12t joined the channel
#
@HongPong
.@benwerd heard lots of praise for yr work at #indiewebcamp, cheers keep it up :)
(twitter.com/_/status/579754711068205056)
#
rhiaro
are there any ~something~ *to* microformats converters?
#
KartikPrabhu
rhiaro: something being?
#
GWG
rhiaro: Plenty
#
GWG
rhiaro: Depends on the something
#
rhiaro
something being anything. What's been done?
#
GWG
There are some shims.
#
GWG
Even Bridgy is a converter of sorts
#
KartikPrabhu
unmung.com
#
KartikPrabhu
rss/atom to mf2 h-feed
#
GWG
rhiaro, KartikPrabhu: You just gave me an idea
#
rhiaro
right, php-mf2-shim adds mf to html
#
rhiaro
GWG... what idea?
#
GWG
rhiaro: I've been working with nominatim reverse address lookup. I might abstract my code a bit more so it could be used elsewhere. It takes the results and tries to convert them to MF2
elf-pavlik_ and gRegor` joined the channel
#
GWG
Unfortunately for me, nominatim is very inconsistent in the fields it returns.
#
GWG
I haven't been able to find a good reference
friedcell joined the channel
#
rhiaro
ooh, thanks snarfed
snarfed joined the channel
#
rhiaro
snarfed: does that library do activitystreams to microformats?
#
rhiaro
wait, I think I found it
#
snarfed
rhiaro: yes
#
rhiaro
awesome
#
rhiaro
as1 or 2?
hongpong joined the channel
#
snarfed
mostly 1
#
snarfed
microformats2.*_to_html() and *_to_json()
#
rhiaro
yes I found that. Thanks!
#
butterwell
So, I have my personal site http://butterwell.exploratori.us/ is up, and even has a post. Is (manual) posse to twitter and facebook essentially sharing the link?
#
GWG
butterwell: Not always. Sometimes it is a full repost
#
GWG
Who here "owns their bookmarks"?
#
butterwell
In a full repost, is it common to link to the original?
#
GWG
butterwell: For post-discovery, yes.
#
GWG
But it doesn't have to be the full Facebook style link
#
GWG
You can do citations, for example
#
GWG
What is a permashortcitation?
#
Loqi
A permashortcitation (or permashortid) is a short non-hyperlinked citation to a post permalink, in contrast to a permashortlink which does hyperlink to a post https://indiewebcamp.com/permashortcitation
#
GWG
I don't do citations though
#
GWG
But that isn't a decision so much as the lack of one
#
snarfed
butterwell: alternatively, when we do include the full content, many of us don't like also linking (or using a PSC/PSL), so we put https://indiewebcamp.com/rel-syndication links on the original post instead
#
snarfed
(this is still an open debate in the community)
#
GWG
I do love Loqi being hooked to the wiki sometimes.
#
Loqi
dude
#
GWG
snarfed: I advocated for POSSE post-discovery on Bridgy.
#
snarfed
GWG: sure! it handles all options, though - links, PSCs, PSLs, rel-syndication - so it's not really an argument for any side
#
snarfed
oh, i see what you mean. original post discovery. nm.
#
GWG
snarfed: I think that was early in my tenure here
#
Loqi
GWG has 89 karma
#
snarfed
rhiaro: i'm guessing you've also seen https://www.w3.org/wiki/Activity_Streams/Microformats_Mapping ? i haven't audited my code to see if it follows that, but i'd love to bring it in line eventually
#
rhiaro
I'm just digging around in what's been done and what is missing
#
GWG
rhiaro: What's your itch?
#
rhiaro
tidying up my blog rendering code
#
rhiaro
which is triples -> html
#
rhiaro
Not much AS2 in it yet though
#
GWG
rhiaro: What is your take on AS2?
#
rhiaro
GWG: I dunno yet. I've read the spec but it's hard to form an opinion from that. I'm gradually adding AS2 terms to my data model until hopefully I can just publish a stream directly from my triplestore
yakker joined the channel
#
butterwell
Okay, so Loki found the tweet, verified it was me via my site. Lovely. Grand. I'm envious. How do I show up as a picture-fied underlined person on IRC?
#
GWG
butterwell: IRC_People
#
ben_thatmustbeme
!tell aaronpk the logo would be better if it were several connections only connecting two points each though. and more accurate
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
butterwell.exploratori.us
edited /IRC_People (+63) "/* Nicknames */"
(view diff)
butterwell joined the channel
#
butterwell
Did it work?
#
butterwell
Yes it did.
#
GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: I have to correct something I said in Boston
lukebrooker joined the channel
#
GWG
If Facebook announces a new API for messenger at F8 on Wednesday, Google could feel pressure to open a Hangouts API for text communication.
#
ben_thatmustbeme
that would be excellent
Acidnerd joined the channel
#
GWG
It could be exactly what you want.
#
GWG
So, the future of open API messenging is in the hands of Facebook. Not promising.
pwcc joined the channel
#
snarfed
GWG: confused. afaik you can still use xmpp to talk to a hangouts account
#
snarfed
the only catch is that you have to do it *from* a google account, not an arbitrary federated xmpp acct
#
GWG
snarfed: Correct. But for how long?
#
snarfed
eh that sounds like fud. and predicting the future is a mug's game
nloadholtes joined the channel
#
snarfed
also, if they do launch an api for fb messenger, that'll be great, but i doubt they'd support full xmpp federation
#
snarfed
so based on your guess, fb would just be coming up to parity with hangouts, not past
#
GWG
snarfed: They won't. But ben_thatmustbeme wanted to unify his messenging on his site. So, it would be good news for that.
#
snarfed
got it, sure
#
GWG
I was poo-pooing that at IWC over FB discontinuing XMPP and Google abandoning it
#
snarfed
understood. again though, to be clear, google only abandoned *federation*, not xmpp entirely
#
snarfed
anyway. i don't feel as strongly about this as i sound :P
#
GWG
The news they might launch an alternative changes the tone.
#
snarfed
sure! let's talk more when we actually know something :P
#
GWG
I'm hoping to be optimistic.
#
GWG
snarfed: You know very well how a Facebook decision can cause trouble, such as their 2.0 API
#
snarfed
GWG: sure! but i also don't analyze rumors or speculation too deeply
#
GWG
snarfed: Agreed.
#
GWG
I'm backing away from my negative position, not toward a positive one
#
GWG
I'm going back to being annoyed with nominatim and its inconsistent fields
tantek and nloadholtes_ joined the channel
#
@bookprescom
STUDY: Facebook Pages’ Organic Reach Is Not Quite Dead >> http://www.adweek.com/socialtimes/?p=617066&utm_content=buffer5c430&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #SocialMedia Tip from David Cohen. #SelfPublish #IndieAuth…
(twitter.com/_/status/579779674118729729)
gRegor` joined the channel
alanpearce joined the channel
#
@LynnMagic
@EmilyAviva I believe that's a part of the indiewebcamp thing. I can do some research later if you want?
(twitter.com/_/status/579780467123036160)
#
ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /2015/ (+22) "move IWC to completed"
(view diff)
#
ben_thatmustbeme
s/IWC/IWC Cambridge/
#
tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: that begs the question - when's the next one!
#
tantek
Düsseldorf or Edinburgh?
#
GWG
I thought you meant next Cambridge
#
pwcc
'morning IWC
#
snarfed
hey pwcc
#
pwcc
Added PESOS Instagram to my notes section over the w/end.
#
snarfed
pwcc++
#
snarfed
ownyourgram?
#
Loqi
pwcc has 6 karma
#
pwcc
snarfed: Using http://w.org/plugins/keyring-social-importers/ until I get the micropub endpoint set up. Messed up indieauth when I relaunched :)
#
ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /2015/Cambridge (+297) "/* Photos */ add photos from timowens"
(view diff)
#
snarfed
got it
#
snarfed
wow, wordpress has w.org? impressive
#
snarfed
wonder how much they paid
#
ben_thatmustbeme
there, photos from IWC Cambridge are up
#
Loqi
yay!
#
ben_thatmustbeme
tantek, GWG, check your spam mail BTW, we got email from that woman
#
tantek
oh from Halley?
#
tantek
great!
#
pwcc
A recent thing, they got it through http://www.project94.org/about-project94/ but not sure how much they paid.
#
pwcc
So you got people interested at IWC, that's great news.
j12t joined the channel
#
pwcc
Everyone happy with how it went? (I've been self obsessed speaker these last fewdays)
#
ben_thatmustbeme
she just wanted confirmation that she has our email addresses correct
#
tantek
ok cool
#
GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: I sent it back
#
tantek
pwcc - it went great - now the task of writing up the demos, by who, at what URL, etc.
almereyda joined the channel
#
pwcc
tantek that's great news, these events tend to fire up attendees and orgs alike.
#
GWG
pwcc: I'm all fired up already
#
@wilkieii
@LynnMagic what indieweb wants is primarily data ownership oriented. obsessed with minimalism. they are like 10 years behind the times.
(twitter.com/_/status/579786606434996225)
#
GWG
Of course, a room full of like minded people does that to me.
#
GWG
I did restrain myself from asking the lead developer of MediaGoblin to support microformats and webmention, as he seemed so excited about AS2
#
tantek
10 years behind *whose* times?
#
tantek
what a strange tweet
#
pwcc
GWG: yeah, like minds - ideas being bounded around at a million miles an hour, etc.
#
@ashedryden
Have the same argument with the IndieWeb kids all the time. I'm not here for a "free" internet for a select hyper-privileged few.
(twitter.com/_/status/579787595502125057)
#
pwcc
tantek: JavaScript MCVs perhapes?
#
tantek
pwcc - no I think it may be more social than technical.
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
@Freerange_Inc
RT @ashedryden: Have the same argument with the IndieWeb kids all the time. I'm not here for a "free" internet for a select hyper-privilege…
(twitter.com/_/status/579788014257324032)
#
tantek
And the argument I have with framing like "not here for XYZ" is that it's flawed negative framing. Rather than say what you're not here for, instead say what you are here for.
#
tantek
Unfortunately it's easier to strawman such negative framing rather than ship and selfdogfood positive framing.
#
@doogiec
Finally got @withknown setup on my VPS. #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/579788517934514176)
#
pwcc
The second tweet I understand better, there is a financial blocker to indieweb. Easier for a middle-class tech worker in a well paying job to rent their own server.
#
tantek
pwcc - no it's more confusion than that. This thread shows confusion between IndieWeb, identica, pump.io etc.:
#
GWG
pwcc: Why rent your own server? There are hosting options that don't require it
#
snarfed
pwcc: also you don't necessarily need a server to be indieweb. free hosts like wp.com, blogger, and tumblr can all be good indieweb citizens: indieauth, mf2, webmention, etc
#
tantek
even github.io!
#
@EmilyAviva
@LynnMagic Didn’t there used to be an Open Source Twitter already? What happened to identi.ca?
(twitter.com/_/status/579780297186676736)
#
@LynnMagic
@EmilyAviva I believe that's a part of the indiewebcamp thing. I can do some research later if you want?
(twitter.com/_/status/579780467123036160)
#
@EmilyAviva
@LynnMagic Oh, it looks like it still exists—pump.io. Problem is, like all such projects, critical mass of active userbase (diaspora, ello…)
(twitter.com/_/status/579780758639775744)
#
pwcc
This is true, it can be done on the cheap. Hosting works better for dog fooding. $10 can be an imposition for a domain.
#
pwcc
Then there are PCs, etc on top of that.
#
tantek
thus confusion / conflation between indieweb / identica / pump.io - all three of which are quite different (and sadly not interoperable - yet)
#
pwcc
Not to say it's a huge expense. Perceptions are important.
#
tantek
pwcc: it's not a huge expense. people pay more monthly for a cellphone than they would need to pay yearly for domain+webhosting.
#
tantek
thus the whole argument from monetary privilege falls pretty flat
#
pwcc
But, I think you're right tantek - what we're seeing in front of us is some confusion. But I try to be sympathetic to other POVs.
#
tantek
bigger issue is *difficulty* (AKA time necessary) in getting things working, maintaining etc.
#
tantek
pwcc - we should absolutely be sympathetic - because clearly there's an outrcy here for *some* form of alternative to popular social network silos
#
pwcc
Yes, and times an expense when you can't really afford a PC and have to work a second job
#
snarfed
also, re the '"free" internet' tweet, i think she meant (that we want) free as in freedom, not as in beer
#
rhiaro
notes we can't tell people what they can and can't afford based on what they may or may not already pay for
#
rhiaro
If a term needed coining, I'd go with richsplaining
#
rhiaro
oh, that's already a thing
#
tantek
rhiaro: my point more is that time cost is a bigger problem here IMO than $ cost (especially since lots of foundations / orgs etc. have tried the throw money at the problem approach - e.g. OLPC etc.)
#
rhiaro
sure, the barrier is high in a number of ways, but existence of one barrier doesn't remove existence of a different barrier, that's all
#
rhiaro
re: twitter thread, I didn't know that's how wilkie felt
#
tantek
rhiaro: of course there are multiple barriers, I think it's important to point out which ones are (apparently) highest
#
snarfed
(i'm repeating myself, but i'm pretty sure they weren't talking about money anywhere in that thread)
#
tantek
rhiaro: I've seen wilkie vent once in a while so that's how I'm reading it (i.e. I don't think he means anything really insulting, just letting off steam)
#
rhiaro
snarfed: yes, I agree. Sounds like they think indieweb is a centralised system
#
pwcc
snarfed: agree, the Open Source Twitter comment etc.
#
tantek
rhiaro: indieweb does sometimes confuse people because they see through centralized assumption biases. e.g. people ask "where is the indieweb project that I can install"?
#
tantek
emphasis on the *the*
#
snarfed
rhiaro: that wasn't my reading either. assuming we're talking about this tweet, i think they were claiming hypocrisy since we like free, decentralized tech, but they think we're not diverse enough. https://twitter.com/ashedryden/status/579787595502125057
#
@ashedryden
Have the same argument with the IndieWeb kids all the time. I'm not here for a "free" internet for a select hyper-privileged few.
(twitter.com/_/status/579787595502125057)
#
snarfed
(again free as in freedom)
#
rhiaro
There are a whole mess of issues raised in that thread
#
snarfed
ah, sure
zachdonovan joined the channel
#
GWG
Until I got involved here...I did not realize how controversial some of these things are
#
tantek
GWG, there are many controversial things. And there are only 24 hours in a day. Eveyrone has to prioritize and choose what to improve, and by opportunity cost, what gets neglected. Choosing nothing means everything gets neglected.