#indiewebcamp 2015-03-23

2015-03-23 UTC
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snarfed prioritization++
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Loqi prioritization has 1 karma
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snarfed "when everything's important, nothing is"
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gRegor` That confusion of pumpio and FOSS monocultural attitudes and indieweb is unfortunate. :/
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rhiaro there's probably a whiff of ind.ie in with the confusion
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tantek rhiaro: yes that keeps rearing its head too
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tantek rhiaro: if you find issues that you think are worth documenting (i.e. aren't just ind.ie confusion, which is a separate problem), you could try adding them here: http://indiewebcamp.com/diversity
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GWG The truth is, I like Indieweb over things like Pump.io because we are building things anyone can interact with even if they have no idea what we're doing.
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tantek GWG, right. No pump.io solution does anything to "federate" with existing silos the way that indieweb POSSE / PESOS etc. do
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tantek not to mention backfeed
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gRegor` CollectQT is "A (Q)ueer (T)rans (Collect)ive for rebuilding your internets. Currently forming a new social network call Quirell" and LynnMagic is referring to pumpio here https://twitter.com/LynnMagic/status/579780867121242112
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@LynnMagic @EmilyAviva ppl from pumpio approached me specifically, if I recall correctly (twitter.com/_/status/579780867121242112)
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gRegor` https://twitter.com/LynnMagic/status/579781033568002049
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tantek gRegor`: did you mean to ask, what is CollectQT?
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@LynnMagic And they did it in such a way that like... it was obvious they wanted me to join their white man "openness" movement (twitter.com/_/status/579781033568002049)
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Loqi CollectQT is a project to build a LGBTQ-aware social network silo which is currently documented as a series of issues on Gitlab, based on shortcomings of existing silos https://indiewebcamp.com/CollectQT
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gRegor` No, because I was already going to add it tantek ;)
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gRegor` Oh, haha
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Loqi rofl
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tantek.com created /Gitlab (+20) "r" (view diff)
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gRegor` Glad to see we already have a page. I wasn't aware of it before today.
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rhiaro that gitlab looks like it might be a good place to go for potential user stories outwith our experiences
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tantek what is better than first defining something?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "better than first defining something" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=better+than+first+defining+something&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-22%2Fline%2F1427069306260
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tantek better than first defining something is asking what is it
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loqi.me created /better_than_first_defining_something (+84) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-22/line/1427069306260 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek what is better than defining something
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "better than defining something" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=better+than+defining+something&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-22%2Fline%2F1427069347822
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tantek better than defining something is [[better than first defining something]]
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loqi.me created /better_than_defining_something (+51) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-22/line/1427069347822 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek hmm I wanted that to be redirect
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tantek oh it did good
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tantek.com edited /better_than_defining_something (-2) "fix r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /better_than_first_defining_something (+33) "see also" (view diff)
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gRegor` What is Quirell?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Quirell" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Quirell&summary=prompted+by+gRegor%60+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-22%2Fline%2F1427069566915
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gRegor` Quirell is http://quirell.net/
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loqi.me created /Quirell (+57) "prompted by gRegor` https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-22/line/1427069566915 and dfn added by gRegor`" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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ben_thatmustbeme oh, btw, tantek, I already left a message for barnaby, I had a test case already but I don't think i had updated the pull request to include it
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tantek cool
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gregorlove.com edited /Quirell (+135) "expand" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /email (+395) "/* Criticism */ Unreliable Delivery" (view diff)
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@indiewebcamp RT @t: Thanks @SandHawke for hosting @IndieWebCamp, @dshanske for remote participation setup, and @dissolve333 ... http://tantek.com/2015/079/t4/thanks-hosting-remote-organizing (twitter.com/_/status/579802903906361344)
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gregorlove.com edited /CollectQT (+112) "expand" (view diff)
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@indiewebcamp RT @timmmmyboy: #indiewebcamp Dinner at Cambridge 2015 https://twitter.com/timmmmyboy/status/578719954071080961/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/579803378772930560)
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gregorlove.com edited /Quirell (+80) "+gitlab" (view diff)
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@indiewebcamp RT @jimgroom: #IndieWebCamp group photo at #MIT meetup https://twitter.com/jimgroom/status/578591055358083072/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/579803818692497408)
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KartikPrabhu thinking how to make an indie example of an embeddable photo. It seems img[title] is not included in any property parsing rule
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Loqi [bridgy] IndieWebCamp favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge (https://twitter.com/glennjones/status/578525205536067585)
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gRegor` What is an embeddable photo?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "embeddable photo" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=embeddable+photo&summary=prompted+by+gRegor%60+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-22%2Fline%2F1427071231964
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tantek what is img[title]?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "img[title]" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=img%5Btitle%5D&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-22%2Fline%2F1427071238853
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KartikPrabhu thanks gRegor` that is what I am trying to figure out :P
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gRegor` <img src=... is how I usually embed. :)
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gRegor` Can you be more specific?
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KartikPrabhu yes. let me find example
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KartikPrabhu example: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/re-first-catch-day I replied to a photo on FLickr but Flikcr embed code for an image needs a stupid JS player
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KartikPrabhu now if I reply to a photo post on an indiewebsite how would I find, img[src], img[alt] and img[title] from the photo post
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KartikPrabhu usign mf2
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KartikPrabhu I want to embed the photo using < img src="" alt="" > and use the title (if any) below the photo with a hyperlink to the permalink
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KartikPrabhu so far I have <img class="h-photo" src="boop.gif" title="Boop" alt="photo of boop" /> but the title never shows up in any property
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tantek KartikPrabhu: Flickr embeds used to work with just <a href><img/></a>
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tantek (with necessary attributes of course)
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tantek as in the copy-paste code they gave you used only those tags
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tantek In case that helps. perhaps pre-2012 design?
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KartikPrabhu tantek they still do, but there is no good way to obtain alt and title from the Flickr photo URL
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tantek been a while
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gRegor` Looks like it's an iframe now
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KartikPrabhu I can reverse engineer the iframe URL and the src URL but not title/alt
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gRegor` Wait, straight HTML is still there.
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gRegor` Share arrow > Code "HTML" > select the radio button at the bottom for "HTML" instead of "Embed"
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gRegor` Counter intuitive
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KartikPrabhu so I should parse the HTML on the page?
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KartikPrabhu gRegor`: I want to do it automatically
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gRegor` No, just commenting on that part... still reading through what you wrote.
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KartikPrabhu yeah I know the button thingie has HTML in it, but hard to automate that given the URL
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gRegor` Does Flickr have mf2? Or how are you getting it?
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tantek KartikPrabhu: no to "should parse the HTML on the page" but rather, document it as an *example* of an HTML only (no script needed) photo embed code
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tantek e.g. on /Flickr#Embedding
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KartikPrabhu the iframe URL can be reverse engineered given the URL of the photo.
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tantek goal is to figure out a good way for indieweb sites to similarly offer embed HTML code
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tantek oops
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tantek rhiaro: did you backdate your RSVP?!? http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/02/social-web-f2f
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tantek tries to remember if we took group photo before or after grid
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rhiaro tantek: that was just the date I original posted that post
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tantek rhiaro: ok
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek, group photo was before the grid. photo before lunch, grid after so we didn't have to explain it twice
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tantek right
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tantek I thought that worked out pretty well
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tantek and it was ok that morning demos took so long
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tantek people had lots of inspiring stuff to show!
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ben_thatmustbeme yes, but i feel like going around the room like that without getting up to the podium made people feel like they had to show something off
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ben_thatmustbeme not necessarily bad, but it did limit us to 4 blocks instead of 5
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tantek tradeoffs for sure
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tantek not everyone is comfortable with going to the podium to present
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tantek in fact, I'd say most people are not comfortable with that, despite having *something* to show that everyone could benefit from
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ben_thatmustbeme indeed. it was nice to not have to pull teeth to get people to present
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tantek.com edited /2015/Cambridge (+226) "/* Photos */ add brightness/contrast corrected photo, day headings" (view diff)
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tantek and I think as long as we frame it as, you can show anything on your personal site you like, or you can pass if you don't want to - then I think it balances well with opportunity / accessibility, vs. how much it makes people feel like they should show something
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ben_thatmustbeme photo looks much better that way
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ben_thatmustbeme agreed
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ben_thatmustbeme we never really framed it with the 'you can pass' or at least never explicitly said it, it just worked out that way
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ben_thatmustbeme we had 19 people in the photo this year at IWC Cambridge. 17 last year
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tantek that's good at least
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ben_thatmustbeme don't know that it really shows a trend
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ben_thatmustbeme I was really surprised how far some people came for it
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: that's a good metric also
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@jimgroom @judell @hypothes_is Very cool, Jon, congrats. Just hung out with @bigbluehat at #indiewebcamp -maybe I'll see you at a future one :) (twitter.com/_/status/579811946700152832)
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ben_thatmustbeme barryf basically came from the UK for IWC
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek, I wish more locals had come though
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: I'm not local enough?
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tantek.com edited /2015/Cambridge (+235) "/* Photos day 2 */ add closing co-organizers photo" (view diff)
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: yes it was great meeting barryf
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GWG He inspired me to put Owning My Bookmarks on my mental list of itches
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GWG tantek: I know you like calling them itches, so I'm ceding the point.
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ben_thatmustbeme GWG, no NYC is too far to get HWC going
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: HWC Hangout?
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tantek GWG - how does late-ish May look for an IWC NYC?
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GWG tantek: I can probably swing it as long as it isn't memorial day weekend.
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zachdonovan I'll come!
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tantek zachdonovan: interesting in helping co-organize an IWC NYC? GWG could use some help!
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zachdonovan I have no idea what's entailed, but absolutely!
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zachdonovan read: I'd be more than happy to help, if y'all can point me in the right direction :)
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KartikPrabhu looks like I got disconnected. I said the following
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KartikPrabhu in any case, suppose I want to do the same sort of embedding for an indie photo post example: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/lighthouse-under-the-moon-adactio
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KartikPrabhu what is the minimal mf2-markup that adactio might add so I can embedd the photo nicely?
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KartikPrabhu also: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/steel-countertop-kylewm
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KartikPrabhu hmmm so for kylewm's photo I can just use the name and photo property of the h-entry. maybe that should work fine
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KartikPrabhu ok will start with that and see how it goes. But first I have to get my file storage in order
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "minimal mf2-markup that adactio might add so I can embedd the photo nicely" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=minimal+mf2-markup+that+adactio+might+add+so+I+can+embedd+the+photo+nicely&summary=prompted+by+KartikPrabhu+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-22%2Fline%2F1427074462407
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GWG zachdonovan: DO you live in NY or areas near?
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zachdonovan I live in Brooklyn and work in Manhattan
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zachdonovan GWG: sorry, still getting the hang of IRC. I live in Brooklyn and work in Manhattan
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+105) "/* Feeds */ using Superfeeder since 2015-03-18, previously Google's hub" (view diff)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: indeed - re: minimal embedding. even more minimal is how do you "embed" a link or more of a note or article?
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tantek that's probably worth documenting
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tantek you can see examples on any of my notes / articles at the bottom of their permalinks
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+163) "/* Publishing standards */ [[PuSH]] 0.4 support since 2015-03-18" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme yay, fixed editing categories
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Loqi giggles
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GWG zachdonovan: I live in Queens. So a hop skip and a jump from Manhattan.
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GWG zachdonovan, tantek: Still need a venue though.
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tantek.com edited /PubSubHubbub (+125) "/* Tantek */ PuSH 0.4 support too" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+171) "/* Feeds */ link dates" (view diff)
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zachdonovan GWG: how much space / how long?
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KartikPrabhu zachdonovan: GWG: fwiw gRegor`and I did HWC in a crowded coffee shop. just need wifi and 2 hours of time
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KartikPrabhu maybe 1 hour
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tantek good to start with an HWC
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tantek because then you can use that time / location to start planning your IWC!
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GWG zachdonovan: For an HWC, we could use a public venue. For an IWC, we need something like a meeting room for 2 days.
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GWG zachdonovan: You want to start a Homebrew Website Club chapter in NYC?
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zachdonovan GWG: heck yeah I do!
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zachdonovan GWG: I work out of WeWork (a coworking conglomerate). There's a bunch of common space available for events that we could use. I'll talk to the community managers tomorrow.
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zachdonovan GWG: they love hosting events.
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GWG zachdonovan: I'd talk to my employer, but I work out in Nassau. We really need a venue in Manhattan, because you can attract people from the whole metropolitan area.
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zachdonovan GWG: yep. I used to live in Westchester - good luck getting anyone to trek up there! :)
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tantek Westchester? like where Xavier's school for the gifted is? ;)
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tantek and on that note I need to go get some food
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek, theres another reference to The Internship in there
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GWG tantek: No, like where Hillary Clinton lives.
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@myriadmystic RT @timmmmyboy: #indiewebcamp Dinner at Cambridge 2015 https://twitter.com/timmmmyboy/status/578719954071080961/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/579839176499191808)
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zachdonovan good night, #indiewebcamp!
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Loqi buenas noches
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@ljl_geek RT @ashedryden: Have the same argument with the IndieWeb kids all the time. I'm not here for a "free" internet for a select hyper-privilege… (twitter.com/_/status/579853256886628352)
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@metrotipu #BeritaBohong #PimredGendut #MediaBlackout #JurnalismeBusuk @RepublikBoneka #BoikotDetikCom @PresidenBoneka #IndieWeb https://twitter.com/metrotipu/status/579483077639983106/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/579856722774220800)
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@LenteraMerahPut RT @metrotipu: #BeritaBohong #PimredGendut #MediaBlackout #JurnalismeBusuk @RepublikBoneka #BoikotDetikCom @PresidenBoneka #IndieWeb http:/… (twitter.com/_/status/579858161789612032)
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@muhamadzakyg RT @metrotipu: #BeritaBohong #PimredGendut #MediaBlackout #JurnalismeBusuk @RepublikBoneka #BoikotDetikCom @PresidenBoneka #IndieWeb http:/… (twitter.com/_/status/579858582214029312)
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@sh_dyah RT @metrotipu: #BeritaBohong #PimredGendut #MediaBlackout #JurnalismeBusuk @RepublikBoneka #BoikotDetikCom @PresidenBoneka #IndieWeb http:/… (twitter.com/_/status/579876146013048832)
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KevinMarks_ reads scrollback
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KartikPrabhu be forewarned!
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KevinMarks_ Rhiaro you could use unmung.com to translate from triples if you make an rss 1.0 feed (which is full of triples, if in a somewhat unfashionable form)
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KevinMarks_ I have been trying to engage with collectqt, but I may be sounding mansplainy by pointing to prior projects
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KevinMarks_ I wish them success, and want to help.
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@kevinmarks @ashedryden I may have missed this argument. I think there is common ground between your goals and indieweb. What are you here for? (twitter.com/_/status/579900921573834752)
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KevinMarks_ Ah crap. Lynn has gone private. Probably because of the blockbot stuff. I hope not because of me tweeting her.
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks_ the "what are you here for" direct questioning might be taken as aggressive
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KevinMarks_ Yeah, it could. Hm.
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@dissolve333 @ashedryden Not sure I follow. Is this the Ind.ie vs Indieweb problem? I just don't want to use FB but still be able to interop. (twitter.com/_/status/579946461334519808)
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@viper82 @AurelieKrau Cadeau : POSSE : Publish Own Site Syndicate Everywhere => http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/579959114069053440)
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@viper82 Si des fois, vous ne connaissiez pas l'approche "POSSE" : Publish Own Site Syndicate Everywhere http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE #ReseauxSociaux (twitter.com/_/status/579964520044560384)
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cuibonobo Hmm. I wonder if piping tweets into the IRC channel contributes to a perception of sealioning on indieweb's part
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cuibonobo to you there is a context because anything that mentions "indieweb", etc. lands here
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cuibonobo but to the recipients of questioning tweets i can imagine 'whoa. where did *you* come from?' in their minds
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_1_zayn hi!!
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ben_thatmustbeme what is sealioning?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "sealioning" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=sealioning&summary=prompted+by+ben_thatmustbeme+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-23%2Fline%2F1427116667226
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GWG Good morning all
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petermolnar good morning
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butterwell Good morning.
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GWG Going on, what is?
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butterwell sealioning: http://wondermark.com/1k62/
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petermolnar ?
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petermolnar GWG I need a little WP architectural brainstorm, do you have a few minutes?
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GWG A few, but need to leave soon
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GWG What is up?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "up" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=up&summary=prompted+by+GWG+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-23%2Fline%2F1427117790517
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tommorris.org edited /Instagram (+381) "/* Criticism */ adding lack of license metadata" (view diff)
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petermolnar I made a reactions importer which imports comments/favs/etc. from social networks
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petermolnar the problem is that I have to do it per post
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petermolnar and per post make the API call
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petermolnar now what I did to automate it is:
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petermolnar at the very beginning of the task I build a list of related posts which is then stored in the db
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petermolnar I also store a pointer to the last done post in that list
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petermolnar a scheduled worker runs, does one post, then reschedules itself for ~10-30 seconds
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petermolnar and it works, but even if I run wp cron explicitly from real crontab, it slows the site down massively
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petermolnar and I don't really understand, why
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petermolnar any ideas?
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cuibonobo petermolnar: have you disabled your internal wp-cron? maybe having a real cron plus executing on page load isn't a good idea
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petermolnar i did, yes ( unless define ( 'DISABLE_WP_CRON', true ); in wp-config.php is enough )
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petermolnar s/unless/if
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Loqi petermolnar meant to say: i did, yes ( if define ( 'DISABLE_WP_CRON', true ); in wp-config.php is enough )
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cuibonobo should be!
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cuibonobo you may have to troll your server logs / top to see what exactly is causing the slowdown
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GWG petermolnar: What if you process outside of Wordpress and the cron job just imports.
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GWG Got to go
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petermolnar that I wanted to avoid, since I've built it on top of the Keyring plugin
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petermolnar without that I'd need to re-implement the oauth/oauth2 stack
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petermolnar but there is a very high chance that that is what I will do
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petermolnar I mean an external process
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petermolnar (I'm getting really tired of unexpected and unpredictable behaviour from WordPress to be honest )
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kylewm GWG: yesterday you said "kylewm: I asked you a question, I guess you weren't around." what/where was the question?
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KevinMarks__ Damm, did I sealion ashe?
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cuibonobo KevinMarks__: sealioning is in the eye of the beholder, i think. i was only commenting on how piping tweets into the IRC might affect that perception
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KevinMarks___ Of course, if that's how she thinks of it, me apologising today only makes it more sealiony
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Loqi KevinMarks___: pwcc left you a message on 3/15 at 4:11pm: yeah, pull request for noterlive is on github. I have a few ideas but issues are no good without code :) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-15/line/1426461072456
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cuibonobo yeah, i think so too
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gregorlove.com created /sealioning (+416) "stub" (view diff)
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gRegor` Took a stab at it.
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KevinMarks___ There is a problem with the wiki sign-in requiring your own domain, not subdomain, and hence being exclusive in the way ashe dislikes, even though the broader indieweb principles do not assume that you bought a domain
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gRegor` What is sealioning
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Loqi sealioning is a term for intrusive attempts to engage someone with questions and requests for evidence for their claims https://indiewebcamp.com/sealioning
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gregorlove.com created /sealion (+24) "r" (view diff)
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gRegor` I think that's a good point about the tweets piped in here + sealioning.
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gRegor` Important to remember that most people have no context to our initial replies
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gRegor` I don't think KevinMarks tweet appears much like sealioning, but having followed Ashe for a while and seeing a lot of the crap she's dealt with, I think I can pretty safely say it will come off as aggressive.
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KevinMarks___ Ashe and Lynne are both people I have had twitter conversations with in the past, but I can see that a many hours later response to them discussing indieweb dismissively will look sealiony
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gRegor` Ah. Well it's good that you've had conversations with them before.
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gRegor` In that case a pre-emptive apology/re-phrasing of the question might not be a bad idea.
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KevinMarks___ Previously https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/515196159128645632
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@kevinmarks @LynnMagic would love to chat about how #indieweb can help you build @collectqt (twitter.com/_/status/515196159128645632)
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kylewm wilkie wasn't at the w3c f2f?
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KevinMarks___ Lynn suggested the gitlab.com issues list (looks like gitlab.com is down today)
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kylewm https://gitlab.com/collectqt/quirell/issues working for me
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ben_thatmustbeme ahh, yeah, the subdomain bit is pretty important i think
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ben_thatmustbeme plus, its pretty trivial to register a domain, and will get easier and easier
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cuibonobo creating services that identify people by domain instead of by phone / email is key -- then a savvy phone or internet provider might pick up on the trend and start giving out domains with their plans
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ben_thatmustbeme or at least subdomains. myuser.verizon.com etc
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tantek the problem is one of control, and trust
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tantek we should not propagate any illusion of either, which corporate owned subdomains do
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Loqi yea!
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tantek cuibonobo: or perhaps we can develop sufficient open standards based comms (e.g. webRTC / FF Hello) to make "phone" providers unnecessary and even obsolete.
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek, I agree it isn't self controlled, but I don't know that the world can go to having everyone have their own domain without some intermediate step, namely indieweb friendly for as much as possible
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: of course we want to encourage indieweb /friendly silos as much as possible
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ben_thatmustbeme i don't care if people want to not own their own data, so long as I can own mine and everyone interoperates
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tantek however, we should not call silos "indie" in any sense, as that propagates that aforementioned illusion and dilutes the good work that people here are doing
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tantek call a friendly silo just that, not something else.
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tantek we could even sort / rank them by friendliness
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tantek and even document when their friendliness goes up and down
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ben_thatmustbeme i rather like that idea
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tantek e.g. FB API changes have made it less friendly
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tantek right, let's use gamification (using our own criteria) of silos to frame them
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ben_thatmustbeme new mantra? #gamifyeverything
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ben_thatmustbeme hehe
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cuibonobo tantek: agreed. the goal would be to make domains the only piece of identifying info you need to give out, and from your domain you can control info about you and means of communication
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tantek cuibonobo: I'm trying to actively "live" that as I no longer have or give out a phone number - I give people my tantek.com slash contact URL which even non-tech people (but with smart phones) are able to understand / use (and some/most even add to their home screen, realizing it's more convenient than having to enter a bunch of data into a contacts app)
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tantek the key bit is this - they're able to use my contact URL, *without* having to have a domain of their own or give up their phone number
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tantek and about 10% of them respond with hey that's cool how can I get one?
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@inflectionpoint RT @ashedryden: Have the same argument with the IndieWeb kids all the time. I'm not here for a "free" internet for a select hyper-privilege… (twitter.com/_/status/580033490067939328)
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tantek finally gets around to uploading some photos to indiewebcamp
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tantek if anyone has a permalink to Ashe's "same argument" that she's referring to, I'd really like to review it see if we can do better.
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ben_thatmustbeme me too
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tantek I'd say something like "no argument from me. I support your independent creative and constructive efforts in whatever form they take." but I'd be afraid of being labeled with some new "-ism" or "-ing" term that I haven't heard before like "sealioning".
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tantek also, since KevinMarks and ben_thatmustbeme have already replied to that thread, any more @-replies there would likely look some form of outnumbering which would likely not be productive either.
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petermolnar I'd simply ignore tweets that lack context but I'm European :)
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ben_thatmustbeme agreed, I was hesitant to even give a second response
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: right. I think it's better if we spend more time listening and documenting apparent criticisms rather than responding.
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petermolnar ^ this is a good idea
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ben_thatmustbeme but you do need to understand the criticisms, need to at least hear the arguement once
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petermolnar a tweet without real content is not criticism
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petermolnar that's an opinion
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: we can listen and attempt to piece things together over time without "demanding" to see the argument
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tantek !tell benwerd Known feature request, when doing a "photo" post in particular, show a pop-up with suggested sharing licenses for the photo, e.g. CC0, CC-BY, CC-BY-NC etc. feel free to pick a set you think is useful (perhaps at least include CC0 to be indiewebcamp wiki friendly :) )
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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benwerd roger roger
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 15 seconds ago: Known feature request, when doing a "photo" post in particular, show a pop-up with suggested sharing licenses for the photo, e.g. CC0, CC-BY, CC-BY-NC etc. feel free to pick a set you think is useful (perhaps at least include CC0 to be indiewebcamp wiki friendly :) ) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-23/line/1427126581180
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benwerd Thanks Loqi :P
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Loqi you're welcome
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ben_thatmustbeme heh
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cuibonobo obviously i can't speak for ashe, but based on her ordeal with gittip (now gratipay) and her essays, the 'public persona' of indieweb reflects people that are very 'open'
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benwerd This is also useful for Internet Archive integration.
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tantek benwerd: and for Flickr POSSEing - you can POSSE the license with the photo!
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cuibonobo i.e. you provide contact information directly on your website, publicly display geolocation, etc.
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benwerd Ah! I didn't realize they had that in the API. Good call!
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cuibonobo and that 'openness' is diametrically opposed to ashe's world
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cuibonobo see this for ref: https://modelviewculture.com/pieces/social-networking-as-peer-surveillance
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tantek cuibonobo: interesting. there's definitely a diversity of opinions and practices re: contact info and geo info on one's site in the indieweb community.
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tantek perhaps we need to document that diversity of opinions better
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ben_thatmustbeme ohh, benwerd, if you do add licensing options when posting a photo, make a note for how to do so in micropub, would love to support it
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ben_thatmustbeme or is micropub a plugin?
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benwerd I've had a lot of people who I've spoken to about connections, and who are appalled that we would even consider posting friends lists publicly.
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme++ for properly one-upping my licensing suggestion!
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme has 56 karma
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tantek benwerd: I agree re: the challenges around public friends lists
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benwerd ben_thatmustbeme It's a plugin for now. Micropub is awesome; IndieAuth is also awesome but not quite a clean fit with a large portion of Known sites (because they're multi-user)
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KevinMarks__ This piece by Ashe http://www.ashedryden.com/blog/model-view-culture-social-networking-as-peer-surveillance is an implicit critique of our assumptions of public posts
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tantek cuibonobo: reading the mvc article
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tantek KevinMarks: what assumptions of public posts?
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tantek (citation to / expansion of said assumptions needed)
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ben_thatmustbeme hmmm, interesting. wonder how micropub can better support multi-user
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benwerd ben_thatmustbeme: micropub does it perfectly; indieauth assumes a root-level domain
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benwerd We also have per-item privacy in the Known codebase but haven't revealed it yet. Privacy is important, and assuming it's okay to be all-public is a position of privilege.
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benwerd Biggest piece of criticism I've had all year: that you have to pay to make your hosted Known site private.
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ben_thatmustbeme does it? indieauth.com supports subdomains i believe
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ben_thatmustbeme but not subdirectories
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benwerd ben_thatmustbeme Sorry, yes - but not subdirectories
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benwerd Exactly
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tantek and that's for a very good reason (subdomains yes, subdirectories no) per /lj2006
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benwerd Right - it makes sense in the Indieweb context, just not always in the Known context. Subdomains are incredibly hard for many of our users to run.
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KevinMarks__ Indieauth and webmention implicitly assume that we connect our sites to silos and that posts are public
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tantek benwerd - and subdirectories are incredibly hard for you to secure against CORS based attacks
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tantek so how vulnerable do you want to make your users?
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tantek KevinMarks: Indieauth.com (not indieauth) yes, to one silo at least (can be a private account), yet webmention no, as aaronpk got private messaging working via webmention
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benwerd We mitigate with domain-based namespacing (i.e., it's small groups of users, not one giant pool), but yes, you're right
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2015-078-iwc-group-square.jpg]]""
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tantek KevinMarks: don't apologize for public posts so quickly, because you may be missing / obscuring the original point of why so much works better for public posts - which is to explore the problem space
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tantek it is an example of the "simpler" principle - solve the simpler problems first so they may better illuminate the harder problems
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tantek it's not public *instead of* private, but rather, public first *only because it's easier* to better understand what remains to get private posts working
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2015-078-iwc-group-cropped.jpg]]""
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cuibonobo tantek: i think the issue for marginalized groups is that private should be the default, and public posts should be built on top of that
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tantek.com edited /File:2015-078-iwc-group-square.jpg (+124) "original from" (view diff)
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cuibonobo the approach that i've taken on my personal site is that all posts are private by default, but explicitly setting them 'public' will make them so
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tantek.com edited /File:2015-078-iwc-group-cropped.jpg (+124) "original CC0 and attribution / URL" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme both should be options, its just public only is what many have developed first as its easier
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tantek.com edited /File:2015-078-iwc-group-cropped.jpg (+9) "cropped" (view diff)
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KevinMarks2 See https://twitter.com/ashedryden/status/579805431138111488
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@ashedryden @sarahjeong I have my favorite people in a private list so they won’t get harassed by assholes :/ doesn’t help with private acts @anildash (twitter.com/_/status/579805431138111488)
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ben_thatmustbeme i think tantek is pointing out that from a tool building perspective, private posts are 2 systems, posting and access controls, public only involves posting. So it is better to start by building a public system and then work on the access issues.
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tantek cuibonobo: totally agreed on private by default in content creation UI - assuming we know how to make private posts
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cuibonobo ben_thatmustbeme: right. that's why i built my access control first.
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butterwell Public is easy. That's "everyone". Private is very difficult. First circle private: me. Second circle private: family? friends? Which ones?
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tantek what is private?
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Loqi private posts refer to posts or portions of posts which are private to either the author or to a limited audience chosen by the author https://indiewebcamp.com/private
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tantek butterwell: I encourage you to add your challenges and questions to that page ^^^ :)
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tantek cuibonobo: a lot of us have bad experiences with "privileged" technologists attempting to figure out / define how to do distributed private posts without actually building anything (c.f. FSW2010) and is why we gave up on them and just started building *something* that works even if insufficient.
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gRegor` For marginalized groups the first question probably isn't "How can I make a post?" but "How can I make a post without getting harassed/threatened?"
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tantek gRegor`: I wouldn't even assume what the first question is or could be or probably is for marginalized groups.
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gRegor` Well, sure. I'm just extrapolating that from horrible experiences I see them have repeatedly on social media
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tantek I think you need citations of those that self-represent as being from one or more marginalized groups before you can make any claims about what the first, second or third questions are.
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gRegor` So perhaps ignore the "ranking" of the questions.
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tantek just capturing questions / needs at all - via specific citations/quotations thereof (not extrapolations - which could be misinterpreted as privilegesplaining)
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butterwell What is a challenge?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "challenge" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=challenge&summary=prompted+by+butterwell+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-23%2Fline%2F1427128206027
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gRegor` What is privilegesplaining?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "privilegesplaining" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=privilegesplaining&summary=prompted+by+gRegor%60+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-23%2Fline%2F1427128286956
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (+375) "add an image of recent IWC next to subhead for call to actions to join, so there's an image of people to associate the "we" with" (view diff)
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gRegor` What is privilege?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "privilege" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=privilege&summary=prompted+by+gRegor%60+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-23%2Fline%2F1427128301242
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gregorlove.com edited /Main_Page (+7) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ next, no Chi" (view diff)
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tantek everyone - I just made a semi-non-trivial edit to the "above the fold" section of the home page so I'd like your review / opinion please
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tantek added a "Join the IndieWeb" heading to the otherwise "free floating" call to action list items below the definitional aspect at the top.
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KevinMarks2 Privilege is the invisible advantage in life that accrue from being a member of the presumed default culture.
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tantek and second, embedded a photo from our recent IWC so there is 1) a photo closer to the top of the page which I think humanizes it more (reflects at least a subset of who "we" are), and 2) provides at least some context for the "we" references in the prose text.
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loqi.me created /Privilege (+136) "prompted by gRegor` https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-23/line/1427128301242 and dfn added by KevinMarks2" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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gregorlove.com edited /Events (+1004) "next+next-next HWC, archive past events" (view diff)
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tantek see https://indiewebcamp.com/ and please provide feedback on the changes. if it doesn't look like anything changed, that's good to know too.
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ben_thatmustbeme Photo being closer to the top is definitely better
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gRegor` I think we basically have one more Chicago HWC, April 8th. :/ I'm moving April 24th so that week will be busy.
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ben_thatmustbeme though it does give the appearance of a much smaller group
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: that's odd because there's more people in it than in the other photos!
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gregorlove.com edited /Events (+0) "/* Upcoming */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme i don't mean in comparison to other photos, i mean in comparison to none
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ben_thatmustbeme no photos leaves a big blank space, it could be one person it could be a thousand
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cuibonobo ben_thatmustbeme++
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ben_thatmustbeme i prefer the photo, i'm just worried that people will go "oh its like 20 people"
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme has 57 karma
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: is it bad to be underestimated?
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gregorlove.com edited /Events (+1) "archiving" (view diff)
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tantek sometimes a smaller group can be less intimidating to get involved with
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zachdonovan ben_thatmustbeme, tantek: I liked the sense of a small group from the pictures I saw
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tantek I would rather we seem less intimidating than seem big and popular.
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tantek but that's just my opinion
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cuibonobo i also recall a tweet by shanley seeing a pic of an IWC and saying something to the effect of "what do i have in common with them?? no thanks"
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zachdonovan it was definitely a factor in feeling ready to jump in.
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tantek cuibonobo: indeed, and also why I wanted to put a recent photo which hopefully shows a bit more diversity
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KevinMarks2 Today in siloing - twitter shipped an Android client that intercepts web urls for a captive browser, copying Facebook.
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gRegor` I was just looking for that tweet, cuibonobo
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tantek certainly more than say the IWC SF photo from last year, which was all men except for caseorganic.
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tantek gRegor`: see /diversity
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tantek it's cited there
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gRegor` Thanks
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tantek cuibonobo: do you think the photo helps or hurts?
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ben_thatmustbeme still not a lot of diversity, but hopefully that will change
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: not hopefully, but rather, only with deliberate and persistent effort by all of us.
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ben_thatmustbeme rather hopefully we will be able to make that change happen
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ben_thatmustbeme sooner
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cuibonobo tantek: i think that *not* having a photo makes IWC more abstract and thus easier to see yourself in
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tantek cuibonobo: ok, makes sense.
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cuibonobo whereas with the photo there is a more concrete 'do i belonge here? (y/n)'
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KevinMarks2 "Encourage existing minorities within the group to take more active / visible roles" can be problematic too - this gives them extra work to do
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tantek cuibonobo: that's a very good point
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tantek KevinMarks: what are you quoting from? can you please provide URLs?
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KevinMarks2 That is from /diversity
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gRegor` http://indiewebcamp.com/diversity#Improving_diversity
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@NorthCreekSoft #smallbusiness #ownyourdata what tools are you using? Can you pull data out of any of them? Can you do analytics at any point? (twitter.com/_/status/580047866355404800)
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (-356) "drop photo because it prompts too much of an implicit questioning of "do I belong here? y/n" by looks rather than principles/values, and the latter is what we want to focus on, perhaps re-assess with improved diversity in IWC participation" (view diff)
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petermolnar I honestly don't get this diversity issue when the whole thing we're doing is entirely voluntary
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tantek petermolnar: "entirely voluntary" tends to amplify societal defaults, which tend to not be very diverse. Thus if we want more diversity, we must take explicit steps to break from societal defaults.
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KevinMarks2 Homophily happens by default
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petermolnar don't get me wrong, I'm not against anything but in my opinion not all the things should be force; obviously we should encourage everyone and anyone to join but it should not be forced
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petermolnar eh I tried to re-write it 4 times and I ended up with a brutally ugly sentence, sorry
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tantek np. it's not about forcing, but about focus of that encouragement
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tantek "we should encourage everyone and anyone to join" is an excellent start / concept, however by default it does tend to result in encouraging more of those "like yourself" than everyone/anyone. Thus the need to expilcitly reach out beyond those like yourself in attempt to actually achieve "encourage everyone and anyone"
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cuibonobo it's also important to note that seeking diversity isn't about checking a box in a political correctness checklist. improving diversity leads to broadening the perspective / knowldge of the group as a whole
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petermolnar I believe that approach is wrong; it smells like many of the religions which say mine is the one true way; those that always try to get more followers
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petermolnar there are other religions who accept anyone but there are not spreading their words of how awesome we are
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petermolnar if people are interesting in something, they will seek out and yes, their interest should be welcoming; but it's not necessarily the interests' task to spread the word about themselves, or is it? Am I mistaken here?
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petermolnar s/interesting/interested
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Loqi petermolnar meant to say: if people are interested in something, they will seek out and yes, their interest should be welcoming; but it's not necessarily the interests' task to spread the word about themselves, or is it? Am I mistaken here?
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KevinMarks2 That was one of Lynne's objections - that we wanted her to join our 'white man "openness" movement'
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danlyke So I'm getting my WithKnown installation up and running, and trying to use Brid.gy, and I am totally blanking on where I put my self-hosted WithKnown URL in... Do I need to create a new account because I've already created an account to experiment with my own code?
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danlyke (Copied over from Indiechat)
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petermolnar if she's not interested, don't force it, that's all
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tantek benwerd ^^^
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petermolnar danlyke you don't have to; you just need to add the post url to the actual content in the syndicated copy (e.g Facebook post ); bridgy will do the rest of the work
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tantek petermolnar: huh? you shouldn't need to do that either as Known does that for you automatically
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petermolnar than there is nothing you need to do
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petermolnar brid.gy will take care of the rest
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tantek perhaps the instructions are confusing then and could be improved?
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tantek danlyke: where exactly are you getting "stuck" with getting things working?
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danlyke I may have a synchronization issue about when my tests went where, and I didn't initially notice the "See Original" link on Facebook back to my WithKnown post.
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tantek hey did Portland HWC get confirmed this week by anyone? aaronpk, bret, dietrich ?
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dietrich tantek: i cannot host this week. skizzy mars show on weds.
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danlyke Bing, it's working. Thanks for clearing my head fuzz, y'all!
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Loqi dietrich: tantek left you a message 1 week, 2 days ago: Could you (aaronpk, dietrich) check if ESRIPDX/MozPDX is available to host 2015-03-25 Homebrew Website Club PDX and add it? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-03-25-homebrew-website-club#Where http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-14/line/1426348559630
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danlyke Now I need to hack on Known to give it a UI paradigm that suites me better...
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tantek bret - want to organize a HWC PDX at a cafe or pub this week?
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petermolnar is off for now, see you later
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tantek danlyke: great!
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tantek I have to agree with some of what petermolnar was saying - i.e. there's definitely a cultural value here of we tend to focus on people who have already committed to making a difference for themselves by themselves.
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tantek I'm less interested in asking anyone to join a "movement" than in asking hey, is there anything we can do to help you improve your own website in ways that you want to?
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/1565113317092307#10203643450182791 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-03-25-homebrew-website-club
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ben.thatmustbe.me created /2015-03-20-boston-globe-questions (+404) "pasting questions" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me moved /2015-03-20-boston-globe-questions to /2015-03-23-boston-globe-questions "correct date"
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gRegor` Lynne's objections about 'white man's "openness" movement' seemed to be in relation to pump.io approaching her for the Quirell project. https://twitter.com/LynnMagic/status/579780867121242112
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gRegor` Private now, but it was in yesterday's logs. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-22#t1427069114024
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gRegor` Like tantek pointed out yesterday, confusion/conflation of indieweb/identica/pump/ind.ie
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tantek right, good to study those kinds of interactions and try not to repeat others' mistakes.
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KevinMarks I also sent her links to previous social network open source projects when she was startign QUirrell in case she wanted to reuse them
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tantek.com edited /2015-03-23-boston-globe-questions (+46) "capturing at least my blog post in reply to re: first barcamp, can expand / update / summarize later" (view diff)
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tantek what are previous social network open source projects?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "previous social network open source projects" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=previous+social+network+open+source+projects&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-23%2Fline%2F1427131811688
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tantek KevinMarks: perhaps you could put those links that you sent her on that wiki page ^^^
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek, there was some context to it in the email as well
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butterwell It is far easier to support diversity than to be diverse: to make a principle or product allow for both the average and the village, the common and the iconoclastic.
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bret tantek: i dont think i can this week. too much stuff going on atm :(
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tantek ok - sounds like we should cut Portland HWC for this week then
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tantek since it's monday morning 2 days before and no one has stepped up to organize it
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tantek.com edited /events/2015-03-25-homebrew-website-club (+11) "no Portland this week" (view diff)
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bret ah thank tantek
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tantek bret - what about 2015-04-08?
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tantek we need to start confirming HWC more than days in advance. 2 weeks + in advance would be a good step up.
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tantek bret, and if you're not sure yourself, can you take on checking with aaronpk and dietrich ?
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bret aaronpk: are you going to be in town by then?
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dietrich tantek: bret aaronpk: we're working on a system to allow non-staff contributors to host in-office events
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bret tantek: hoping to work at a place that would offer another venue
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dietrich we're not there yet
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bret dietrich: that would be sweet!
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dietrich but once that happens, for example, bret could host in moz office even when i can't be there
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dietrich bret: i'll keep you in the loop
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tantek dietrich++ that would be great!
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Loqi dietrich has 9 karma
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tantek welcome back aaronpk - how does 2015-04-08 look for hosting HWC?
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bret rgr dietrich thankyou
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aaronpk_ I will probably be back by the 8th but not sure yet
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Loqi aaronpk_: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message on 3/22 at 3:24pm: the logo would be better if it were several connections only connecting two points each though. and more accurate http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-22/line/1427063066482
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butterwell.exploratori.us edited /private_posts (+164) "Added email qualities" (view diff)
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aaronpk_ btw I got the hub working on the plane this morning :-)
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tantek nice!
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: was there a requested / needed deadline for https://indiewebcamp.com/2015-03-23-boston-globe-questions ? could you note that on the page?
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bret aaronpk: which hub?
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tantek what is a hub?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "hub" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=hub&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-23%2Fline%2F1427134126301
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tantek.com edited /ind.ie (+1491) "move old heartbeat description to indi.e page history since it's gone now from their page" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Heartbeat () "(-893) move old heartbeat description to indi.e page history since it's gone now from their page, and make this a disambiguation page for another meaning of "heartbeat" on the web" (view diff)
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GWG kylewm: How do you implement static maps?
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KevinMarks re location stuff - foursquare is now the lcoation engine for twitter too: https://medium.com/@dens/six-years-in-a-few-thoughts-on-foursquare-1ec31cbbe51c
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GWG KevinMarks, I've never used foursquare as a user
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KevinMarks they have the best location db of businesses etc.
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GWG KevinMarks, so you have mentioned. I am trying to generate a static map of a location for display on a post.
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KevinMarks so their reverse geolocation is very good at getting where you actually are, not some random nearby place
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GWG I want to get the base features working before I iterate.
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KevinMarks can you use something like leaflet.js and then staticise it though canvas?
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GWG KevinMarks, no Javascript if I can help it.
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GWG I don't need an interactive map.
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GWG The reason I asked kylewm is his site seems to cache the maps.
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KevinMarks there's https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/staticmaps/ if you want something quick
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GWG KevinMarks, I have something. I just like to get ideas from those who have been there.
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GWG I was able to find some static map code I can use.
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tantek what is a static map?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "static map" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=static+map&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-23%2Fline%2F1427136898781
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KevinMarks there's mapstraction, but that is also JS https://github.com/mapstraction/mxn/
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KevinMarks also possibly abandoned?
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ben_thatmustbeme !tell tantek, none listed
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gRegor` GWG, kylewm: This looks like the script he's using (Python) https://github.com/kylewm/redwind/blob/master/redwind/maps.py
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gRegor` GWG: and the OSM URL: https://github.com/kylewm/redwind/blob/e1b61bf9db12c763a5491bf092a09b8f56dec308/redwind/models.py#L17
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gregorlove.com created /OSM (+27) "r" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /2015-03-23-boston-globe-questions (+257) "Very short answer v1" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /Micropub (+343) "/* h-entry */ starting a quick note about multipart encoding for photos" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme !tell aaronpk just added a quick note about file uploading to /micropub, you should probably refine
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben_thatmustbeme wonders how many messages aaronpk will get when he comes back
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tantek good afternoon #indiewebcamp
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Loqi tantek: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 1 hour, 22 minutes ago: listed http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-23/line/1427137400207
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tantek hmm
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tantek so little context
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ben_thatmustbeme what?
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tantek exactly
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tantek GWG, have you heard of http://civichall.org/ ? That might be a good place to host an IWC NYC.
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tantek.com created /videos (+39) "r" (view diff)
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tantek !tell GWG http://civichall.org/ looks/sounds like a good match for a location for an IWC NYC. Perhaps reach out to them (their email is "info@" their domain) and see what happens? The founders/leaders also did Personal Democracy Forum where I spoke on " Why We Need the #IndieWeb" last year (link in /videos ). You can reference that if that helps.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek well, the ambiguity between location tagged note and checkin with comment is going to get worse: https://twitter.com/twitter/status/580049522170011648
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@twitter Coming soon! We're working with @foursquare so you can tag specific locations in Tweets: https://support.twitter.com/articles/122236-adding-your-location-to-a-tweet https://twitter.com/twitter/status/580049522170011648/video/1 (twitter.com/_/status/580049522170011648)
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tantek from https://support.twitter.com/articles/122236-adding-your-location-to-a-tweet : "In some areas, you have the option to label your Tweet with a specific business, landmark, or point of interest. These places are sourced from Foursquare."
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tantek Foursquare has done a good job of 1) leading with useful to users application(s), growing that into a platform for venues, and 2) simply outsurviving every other (often hamfisted, e.g. Google Latitude or over VC-funded/hyped Gowalla, Brightkite, Loopt) independent commercial attempt at this. Background: https://medium.com/@dens/six-years-in-a-few-thoughts-on-foursquare-1ec31cbbe51c
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ben_thatmustbeme oh damn, i just figured that message out tantek
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ben_thatmustbeme it was just after you left.... and i put a , in by accident
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ben_thatmustbeme you asked if there was a deadline
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ben_thatmustbeme none listed
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none test
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Loqi none: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 2 hours, 14 minutes ago: listed http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-23/line/1427137400207
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KartikPrabhu eh what!!
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ben_thatmustbeme sigh... i always put a , by accident
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ben_thatmustbeme meant to say "!tell tantek none listed" but did "!tell tantek, none listed"
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tantek Though previous "big players" Yelp and Facebook still have their own check-in UIs and use their leverage rather utility to grow integration, e.g. Instagram switching from using Foursquare venues to Facebook venues, and having worse venue tagging as a result.
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ben_thatmustbeme i do that far too often
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tantek I wonder if the integration with Foursquare and Twitter will develop into an ability to checkin via a tweet
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cuibonobo the fact that you can click a venue and see related tweets makes me think they want some Yelp! action
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tantek cuibonobo: with Foursquare's review / recommendation functionality, I'm not sure Yelp is needed for any of that
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tantek more likely they are looking to supplant / replace Yelp
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KevinMarks looking at appengine login at the moment, and it is a real mess
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cuibonobo that's what i meant
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KevinMarks https://developers.google.com/accounts/docs/OpenID?hl=ja
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tantek what is appengine login?
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KevinMarks ouch
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "appengine login" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=appengine+login&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-23%2Fline%2F1427145831475
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KevinMarks appengine login is an api provided by google for appengine developers to use google accounts that is subject to chaotic changes based on strategy changes at google.
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loqi.me created /appengine_login (+191) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-23/line/1427145831475 and dfn added by KevinMarks" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek lol
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek, made a very very short answer. https://indiewebcamp.com/2015-03-23-boston-globe-questions
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ben_thatmustbeme its difficult to instill so much information in to a very short response
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gRegor` Found this header via benwerd's site: "X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett" http://m.bbc.com/news/technology-31907768
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gRegor` s/via/in/
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Loqi gRegor` meant to say: Found this header in benwerd's site: "X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett" http://m.bbc.com/news/technology-31907768
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KevinMarks it is telling that the users api in appengine still has no way to ask for an image of the user: https://cloud.google.com/appengine/docs/python/users/userclass
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tantek KevinMarks: I think that's an instance of the larger problem of "Google doesn't 'get' social"
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tantek !tell GWG I thought your answer to Halley's questions was excellent! Can you add what you wrote to: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015-03-23-boston-globe-questions ?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG I have returned
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Loqi GWG: tantek left you a message 2 hours, 42 minutes ago: http://civichall.org/ looks/sounds like a good match for a location for an IWC NYC. Perhaps reach out to them (their email is "info@" their domain) and see what happens? The founders/leaders also did Personal Democracy Forum where I spoke on " Why We Need the #IndieWeb" last year (link in /videos ). You can reference that if that helps. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-23/line/1427143692145
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Loqi GWG: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 54 minutes ago: I thought your answer to Halley's questions was excellent! Can you add what you wrote to: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015-03-23-boston-globe-questions ? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-23/line/1427146634402
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@kevinmarks @om #tags for blogs never had to post to Technorati - most of them now link to people's own sites which is much more #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/580153170275381249)
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@NorthCreekSoft #ownyourdata #smallbusiness do you use @zapier to connect your apps? Do you ever see your data? What #analytics tools do you use? (twitter.com/_/status/580153968476741632)
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david.shanske.com edited /2015-03-23-boston-globe-questions (+959) (view diff)