#indiewebcamp 2015-04-06
2015-04-06 UTC
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# 
@BillSeitz RT @rhiaro: I blogged about my all new micropub endpoint: Minimum Viable Micropub http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/04/minimum-viable-micropub #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/584914975271051265)
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@ricksmithbooks Learn how to publish your PAPERBACK with CreateSpace on Amazon. #selfpub #IndieAuth http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00RPP01H0/ref=cm_sw_su_dp (twitter.com/_/status/584923543433039872)
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# @ricksmithbooks Publish your printed book on Amazon with this step-by-step guide. #selfpub #IndieAuth http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00RPP01H0/ref=cm_sw_su_dp (twitter.com/_/status/584983953167253504)
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@HongPong http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey-blocks-twitter-youtube-facebook-over-hostage-photo.aspx?pageID=238&nID=80638&NewsCatID=339 twitter and youtube blocked in Turkey, DNS switch may work. facebook agreed to censor. This y u need #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/585069686125109248)
j12t, squeakytoy, ryukafalz, JonathanNeal, JasonO, reidab, halorgium, jonnybarnes, minsky, Jeena, adonaldson, renoirb, brianloveswords, cuibonobo, davemenninger, edsu, tantek__, tfontaine, gavinc, icco, stream7, rascul, torrorist, hober, hidgw, wagle, XgF, finchd, tantek___, jcap, ben_thawr, leofseige, eliemichel, fiatjaf, hmans, sheamon, kylewm, almereyda, sdboyer, aranasaurus, snarfed, chalettu, KevinMarks, KevinMarks_, verdi_, yakker, gRegor`, e-lima, wolftune, tfontaine1 and alexhartley joined the channel
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@jgmac1106 @EduQuinn Try now. some plug in must be messing with my IFTT recipes. Installed the 10,000 webmention plug-ins (twitter.com/_/status/585098110361280512)
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Loqi tantek: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message on 4/3 at 8:05pm: timmmmyboy is rarely in the chat, best way to get a hold of him is twitter http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-03/line/1428116735716
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ben_thatmustbeme good morning tantek
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tantek !tell aaronpk, bret, dietrich do we have a venue figured out for this week's HWC Portland? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-04-08-homebrew-website-club#Where Is MozPDX possible? Or ESRIPDX?
# ben_thatmustbeme true, he was in a bit leading up to IWC Cambridge, but not much other than that
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# tantek hey my browser tried to go to a weird Google URL upon waking from sleep like https://26.client-channel.google.com/client-channel/client?cfg=
{BUNCHOFURLESCAPEDGARBAGE} - as anyone seen anything like this? Or know what it is?# Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 18 minutes ago: do we have a venue figured out for this week's HWC Portland? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-04-08-homebrew-website-club#Where Is MozPDX possible? Or ESRIPDX? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-06/line/1428341493413
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# 
@voxpelli @mahemoff Eg. knowing if a page supports Pubsubhubb or WebMentions by fetching a single file would be beneficial for backend as well (twitter.com/_/status/585140044354166784)
# Loqi dietrich: tantek left you a message 29 minutes ago: do we have a venue figured out for this week's HWC Portland? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-04-08-homebrew-website-club#Where Is MozPDX possible? Or ESRIPDX? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-06/line/1428341493413
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bengo @voxpelli Perhaps web mentions could register a well-known URI: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5785
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@aaronpk @voxpelli @mahemoff That's already the case, fetch the URL and look for the rel=webmention and rel=hub tag (twitter.com/_/status/585140464489103360)
# tantek see every example on /webmention that supports receiving them
# bengo FWIW I've started http://bengo.is/notes
# 
gRegor` bengo++
# gRegor` bengo: Building your site from scratch or on an existing CMS?
# bengo scratch! https://github.com/gobengo/bengo.is
# gRegor` Yep, quite funny
# gRegor` You can cache the endpoints; don't need to fetch it each time necessarily.
# gRegor` aaronpk: True true. I thought bridgy was caching endpoints, so how does that work for you?
# gRegor` Ah, right
# tantek dangit just got another unsolicited random google site request show up in my browser: https://0.client-channel.google.com/client-channel/client?cfg=...
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aaronpk you're not the only one https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/chrome/ueEz-ztdr1o
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# @aaronpk @voxpelli @mahemoff The problem is not all URLs on a domain are required to support webmention or PuSH, so per-URL discovery is still useful (twitter.com/_/status/585148378167681024)
# tantek aaronpk: sounds like good FAQs to add to /discovery
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KevinMarks_ My post template is copy paste from a previous post. I still have webmention urls
# KevinMarks_ Probably at the point where having an actual template process would be good now
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@rhiaro @jarofgreen awesome! The number of people I can communicate with is increasing! Better get my webmention sorted.. (twitter.com/_/status/585150826890530816)
# Loqi [bridgy] Simon Batistoni RSVPed no to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-04-08-homebrew-website-club (https://www.facebook.com/647998125333311#1035661493117024)
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# Loqi A template is a file used to generate a page https://indiewebcamp.com/template
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# gRegor` Hi, davidmead. Yeah, KartikPrabhu and I have been having HWC in Chicago for a while. It's usually been the two of us, with an occasional visitor. I am actually moving away later this month and the HWC meetings were going on hold. You should definitely connect with KartikPrabhu if you'd like to continue the Chicago HWC meetings. It would be great to have you.
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KartikPrabhu davidmead: sounds good!
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tantek.com edited /posts (+455) "/* Inferring post kinds from properties */ add benwerd's article, cluster with aaronpk's in new subsection Articles about implied post types, add u-tag-of" (view diff)
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# tantek the last comment from http://shawfactor.com/2013/08/06/thoughts-on-extending-webmentions/ has a weird line in the middle: "(adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); " looks like an attempt to inject ads with a script tag via webmention
# tantek what's worse - if you go to the permalink now http://shawfactor.com/2013/08/06/thoughts-on-extending-webmentions/ - you see ZERO content without JS
# bengo Is there a good indieweb test service? e.g. http://testmyindieweb.com/?url=http://bengo.is ?
# aaronpk bengo: http://indiewebify.me
# Loqi bret: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 54 minutes ago: do we have a venue figured out for this week's HWC Portland? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-04-08-homebrew-website-club#Where Is MozPDX possible? Or ESRIPDX? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-06/line/1428341493413
# tantek hey LD/LDP fans - pages like this are why LD/LDP is not taken seriously on the open web: http://shawfactor.com/2013/08/06/thoughts-on-extending-webmentions/ (cc: rhiaro, elf-pavlik, sandro etc.)
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# aaronpk hmm not in /irc-people
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voxpelli bengo: there are two WebMention specific test tools here: http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#node-webmention-testpinger
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "that tweet you did a while back tantek " yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=that+tweet+you+did+a+while+back+tantek+&summary=prompted+by+bret+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-04-06%2Fline%2F1428349203354
# Loqi [bridgy] Benjamin Michael Goering RSVPed yes to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-04-08-homebrew-website-club (https://www.facebook.com/647998125333311#2953776562154)
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@t @kevinmarks Ha! @Google reinvents 15 yr old @Microsoft XML Data Islands as JSON-LD Data Islands https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms766512(v=vs.85).aspx (ttk.me t4_F2) (twitter.com/_/status/557633273850253316)
# andicascadesf I should put this on my own site, but thought you’d be proud that I am blogging. My first post is going somewhat viral!
# andicascadesf nope
# andicascadesf I’m just showing you guys that I’m writing and sharing my voice.
# andicascadesf Homebrew meetups inspired me to a lot.
# andicascadesf Thank you!
# andicascadesf I’d like for it to be on cascadesf.com
# andicascadesf but it’s also myself
# andicascadesf and do you guys use a CMS?
# andicascadesf absolutely
# andicascadesf I’ve used WordPress but it keeps getting hacked into
# andicascadesf I’d like to
# andicascadesf I have a lot of experience in WordPress and have hacked the templates
# andicascadesf BUT have issues with security
# andicascadesf need to make sure the blog is secure
# Loqi One of the most important things for new users to do is to properly secure their Wordpress installation https://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress_Security
# KevinMarks wordpress is a big target
# tantek rhiaro: more JSON-LD in script advocates: https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/557619286114451456
# 
@kevinmarks No @google, JSON-LD isn't HTML - that it is in <script> tags should be a clue. https://developers.google.com/structured-data/events/venues https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/557619286114451456/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/557619286114451456)
# andicascadesf It is and it’s frustrating because I have coded entire sites then get discouraged when they crash.
# andicascadesf This Wednesdsay is also UXNight, so I can’t make it to HBM, but wish I could. :/
# andicascadesf yes
# andicascadesf i have it backed up
# andicascadesf just didn’t know how to restore it
# andicascadesf yeah i was having issues using it
# andicascadesf ooh
# andicascadesf Would love to support Erin and Ben too.
# andicascadesf how do you manage comments on wordpress?
# andicascadesf or on your blog?
# andicascadesf do you approve them?
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# andicascadesf I know that part but notice there’s a lot of spam if I don’t manage it properly
# andicascadesf so was wondering if you have any tips
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# andicascadesf I’m going to ask more questions later because I have to go to lunch
# andicascadesf real quickly
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# andicascadesf Is index.php required to run WordPress? Or can I point it to something like blog.php
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# andicascadesf For cascadesf.com I used a simple HTML template, but still have WordPress installed.
# andicascadesf Should I run a completely new reinstall?
# andicascadesf Wow, you guys are so helpful! If you need any design feedback / CSS styles, LMK.
# andicascadesf Okay, I am going to head to lunch. Thank you everyone for your help! WOOHOO!
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# 
@NorthCreekSoft #ownyourdata price data migration into cost of purchasing all-in-one business software, b/c onesies never fit perfectly everywhere (twitter.com/_/status/585180967540764674)
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@erlenzeisig Stumbled upon http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE via @pfefferle #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/585189528551428096)
# ben_thatmustbeme GWG, for what reason?
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# tantek is anyone using Web App install banners on their site or the /comms page? http://updates.html5rocks.com/2015/03/increasing-engagement-with-app-install-banners-in-chrome-for-android
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# sparverius benwerd: almost all luxury cars ship with them now (BMW, mercedes, etc)
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# aaronpk tantek: http://geomena.org/
# sparverius even if you dont pay the monthly fee for traffic they can still be used to push updates (!) albeit only to the infotainment system
# sparverius bmw got busted for falling back to http recently
# sparverius which is So Amazing
# sparverius The fix adds HTTPS encryption to the connection from BMW to the car, which runs over the public cellular network. The added encryption will not only safeguard the content of the messages but also ensures that the car only accepts connections from a server with the correct security certificate.
# sparverius benwerd: aaronpk: like 3ds spotpass
# sparverius when you walk around, it quietly connects to "nintendo points", which are just att hotspots, and downloads promos and system updates
# tantek____ in other news - aaronpk, have you considere or do you have a Google Alert setup for "IndieWeb" OR "The Indie Web" ?
# tantek____ I was just searching Google News for any evidence that the Boston Globe article happened
# aaronpk and there's nothing in it https://www.google.com/alerts/feeds/08478734330167329138/10130567543491574804
# tantek____ yet another RSS death? YARD?
# sparverius google alerts have been broken for years though
# sparverius so it might not be rss but just fundamentally broken
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# tantek____ what is Google Alerts?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Google Alerts" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Google+Alerts&summary=prompted+by+tantek____+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-04-06%2Fline%2F1428358922884
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# tantek____ huh - this came up - perhaps another source of the confusion between aral/ind.ie/indieweb : http://upstart.bizjournals.com/companies/media/2014/09/26/ello-probably-cant-dethrone-facebook-but-who-can.html?page=all
# tantek____ so that's kind of a sad incentive setup: write ranty post about leaving a fledgling site (that likely made overly broad claims/promises), then get cited/quoted in indexed media
# Loqi [bridgy] Jina RSVPed maybe to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-04-08-homebrew-website-club (https://www.facebook.com/647998125333311#523759551124)
# tantek____ aaronpk - it is a true statement. Aral is an advocate of indieweb (among other things)
# tantek____ anyway, suffice it to say not much coming up from Google News search
# tantek____ checks Yahoo
# tantek____ *nothing* on Yahoo News for "IndieWeb"
# tantek____ lots of false positives for "Indie Web Show" etc.
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# tantek____ looks like implementing site-specific tag-search - even html5rocks screws it up: http://updates.html5rocks.com/tag/add%20to%20homescreen (linked from that aforementioned article on Web App install banner)
# tantek____ *is hard
# tantek.com edited /communication (+1388) "/* Brainstorming */ Improving Install Experience - perhaps some hope with Web App install banners" (view diff)
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# tantek_____ on the question of discrete post types - there appears to be quite a gulf between implicit ActivityStreams spec assumptions and experience in this community
# tantek_____ for example, see http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/4
# tantek_____ "ISSUE-4: Do we rely on explicit typing or support implicit typing based on explicit property names?"
# tantek_____ the sadder thing is the email threads linked to from that issue and related, e.g. linked from http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/35
# tantek_____ "ACTION-35: Come up with a simple proposal for implicit typing based on property names"
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# tantek_____ I wonder if instead of just a simple proposal for implicit typing, would it be better to come up with a simple proposal alternative to ActivityStreams, e.g. "Post Streams"
# tantek_____ bengo, if you listen to the advocates, both LDP and JSON-LD already do anything and everything you could possibly want in a platform
# tantek_____ of course these are advocates that don't actually ship anything on their own site
# tantek_____ so it is easy to simply start dismissing all such claims about LDP/JSON-LD
# tantek_____ bengo the "you could map whatever" type claims were also made of OWL
# tantek_____ in practice no one has any actual working systems that do this
# tantek_____ "map whatever names you want" is one of those red flags in these conversations
# tantek_____ usually said by people who have never shipped a system that does that
# bengo i.e. this but for http://bengo.is/notes intend of the test content there: http://s.codepen.io/gobengo/debug/dFwDL?
# tantek_____ bengo - that latter is what we do with microformats2 and microformats2 parsers that return JSON
# tantek_____ rhiaro - awesome!
# tantek_____ rhiaro are you POSSEing your likes, resposts, bookmarks to any silos?
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loqi.me created /Java_shop_politics (+116) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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# bengo @tantek_____, if I were to crawl http://tantek.com/, which metadata do you consider the best to use to get a machine-readable version of the entries there? If HTML+microformats2, is there any convention on how to page through the feed? e.g. the homepage may only render the first 10 of 1mm posts. How do I get from 1-10 to 10-11+?
# tantek_____ bengo - I don't think anyone has solved the pagination problem
# tantek_____ in practice it hasn't been a priority
# tantek_____ as in - for what use-case / user-scenario do you need it?
# tantek_____ so far, simply having a live "feed" on a home page, and properly marked up permalink pages has been sufficient for existing use-cases
# bengo e.g. the 'show more' button here http://s.codepen.io/gobengo/debug/dFwDL?
# tantek_____ bengo - so far no one building an indie /reader has run into that problem
# tantek_____ thus it's not clear it's necessary or even a priority for a "general-purpose reader"
# tantek_____ do you have a reader UI on your own site?
# snarfed bengo: imho wordpress does paging and even infinite scroll reasonably. see https://snarfed.org/ for an example. scroll to the bottom, keep scrolling, watch the url update to point to each page
# tantek_____ rhiaro unfortunately my webmentions are all getting queued up at webmention.io :/ and I haven't written code to extract/store/display them yet
# tantek_____ thanks rhiaro :)
# tantek_____ bengo - I encourage you to build a minimum viable reader for yourself, and postpone/procastinate worrying about anything else
# bengo The furthest I've seen helping with the pagination problem in AS-land are some of the properties defined on AS 'Collection's (e.g. 'next', 'prev') http://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-core/#collections
# tantek_____ bengo - ah, for next/prev, my post permalinks *do* link to the next/prev posts with standard HTML rel=next rel=prev
# tantek_____ so you can paginate in the old sense of the word, one post at a time :)
# tantek_____ no need for AS or "Collections" or anything else
# tantek_____ even if it is quite rudimentary / "inefficient" to request one post at a time
# tantek_____ I need to add such next/prev links to my archive pages
# bengo @rhiaro is all the data for http://rhiaro.co.uk/ stored in MySQL, queried as SPARQL via https://github.com/semsol/arc2 ?
# tantek_____ rhiaro - add yourself and your site to the end of this list! http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#IndieWeb_Examples
# 
rhiaro bengo: as of yesterday you can get my blog posts back as a few flavours of rdf, or markdown http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/04/blog-post-content
# KartikPrabhu what is SPARQL?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "SPARQL" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=SPARQL&summary=prompted+by+KartikPrabhu+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-04-06%2Fline%2F1428363298588
# KartikPrabhu "one does not simply prounce SPARQL" ;)
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# KevinMarks you mean "My Sequel"
# 
@mikeindustries Proper Retweet-With-Comment is rolling out right now. Sorry it took so long! https://twitter.com/twitter/status/585225218093932544 (twitter.com/_/status/585226627484749824)
# Loqi [bridgy] Chris Heuer RSVPed yes to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-04-08-homebrew-website-club (https://www.facebook.com/647998125333311#10153065553565844)
# @rhiaro I meant to watch House of Cards this evening, but I accidentally implemented likes, reposts, bookmarks a... http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/04/meant-watch-house #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/585229697631580161)
# tantek as the description says, it's "quote Tweet", not "retweet with comment" :P https://twitter.com/twitter/status/585225218093932544
# 
@twitter Say more with revamped quote Tweet! Rolling out on iPhone and web, coming soon to Android. https://support.twitter.com/articles/20169873 https://twitter.com/twitter/status/585225218093932544/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/585225218093932544)
# KevinMarks so they can't even ship consistently