#indiewebcamp 2015-04-06

2015-04-06 UTC
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
GWG
Okay. My location plugin is ready for submission.
#
david.shanske.com
edited /User:David.shanske.com (-4) "/* Wordpress Development */"
(view diff)
j12t, KevinMarks__, KevinMarks_, rascul, KevinMarks___, benwerd, snarfed and renoirb_ joined the channel
#
@BillSeitz
RT @rhiaro: I blogged about my all new micropub endpoint: Minimum Viable Micropub http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/04/minimum-viable-micropub #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/584914975271051265)
frzn joined the channel
#
@ricksmithbooks
Learn how to publish your PAPERBACK with CreateSpace on Amazon. #selfpub #IndieAuth http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00RPP01H0/ref=cm_sw_su_dp
(twitter.com/_/status/584923543433039872)
#
aaronpk
okay that's just an inappropriate use of the #indieauth hashtag :P
#
GWG
aaronpk: A lot of those going around.
#
aaronpk
most of them are twitter truncating #indieauthor to #indieauth... so it matches the search
j12t, snarfed, elima_, KartikPrabhu, wolftune, KevinMarks__, KevinMarks_ and indie-visitor joined the channel
#
Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
j12t and eschnou joined the channel
#
@ricksmithbooks
Publish your printed book on Amazon with this step-by-step guide. #selfpub #IndieAuth http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00RPP01H0/ref=cm_sw_su_dp
(twitter.com/_/status/584983953167253504)
j12t, eschnou, KevinMarks_, KevinMarks__, squeakytoy, stream7, iandevlin, tmro, e-lima, frzn, scor, alexhartley and tfontaine joined the channel
j12t, squeakytoy, ryukafalz, JonathanNeal, JasonO, reidab, halorgium, jonnybarnes, minsky, Jeena, adonaldson, renoirb, brianloveswords, cuibonobo, davemenninger, edsu, tantek__, tfontaine, gavinc, icco, stream7, rascul, torrorist, hober, hidgw, wagle, XgF, finchd, tantek___, jcap, ben_thawr, leofseige, eliemichel, fiatjaf, hmans, sheamon, kylewm, almereyda, sdboyer, aranasaurus, snarfed, chalettu, KevinMarks, KevinMarks_, verdi_, yakker, gRegor`, e-lima, wolftune, tfontaine1 and alexhartley joined the channel
#
@jgmac1106
@EduQuinn Try now. some plug in must be messing with my IFTT recipes. Installed the 10,000 webmention plug-ins
(twitter.com/_/status/585098110361280512)
frzn, danlyke, davidmead, KartikPrabhu, j12t, tilgovi, alexhartley, amblin, glennjones, snarfed, tfontaine, KevinMarks__, KevinMarks_, wolftune and tantek joined the channel
#
tantek
good morning #indiewebcamp!
#
tantek
and congrats to rhiaro for shipping micropub support on her own site!
#
Loqi
tantek: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message on 4/3 at 8:05pm: timmmmyboy is rarely in the chat, best way to get a hold of him is twitter http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-03/line/1428116735716
#
tantek
what is next-hwc?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
good morning tantek
#
tantek
!tell aaronpk, bret, dietrich do we have a venue figured out for this week's HWC Portland? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-04-08-homebrew-website-club#Where Is MozPDX possible? Or ESRIPDX?
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: IWCs have been best organized when primary / most organizers have use IRC to coordinate - so I'm not sure how that's going to work (re: rarely in the chat)
#
GWG
Greetings...
#
ben_thatmustbeme
true, he was in a bit leading up to IWC Cambridge, but not much other than that
bengo joined the channel
#
tantek
hey my browser tried to go to a weird Google URL upon waking from sleep like https://26.client-channel.google.com/client-channel/client?cfg={BUNCHOFURLESCAPEDGARBAGE} - as anyone seen anything like this? Or know what it is?
#
tantek
(this was last night)
#
bengo
It could be for their new web push feature
#
aaronpk
whoa neat
#
Loqi
aaronpk: tantek left you a message 18 minutes ago: do we have a venue figured out for this week's HWC Portland? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-04-08-homebrew-website-club#Where Is MozPDX possible? Or ESRIPDX? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-06/line/1428341493413
davidmead joined the channel
#
bengo
@aaronpk yeah it's a pretty big leap.
#
@voxpelli
@mahemoff Eg. knowing if a page supports Pubsubhubb or WebMentions by fetching a single file would be beneficial for backend as well
(twitter.com/_/status/585140044354166784)
#
dietrich
tantek: i cannot host at mozpdx, going to another event that night
#
Loqi
dietrich: tantek left you a message 29 minutes ago: do we have a venue figured out for this week's HWC Portland? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-04-08-homebrew-website-club#Where Is MozPDX possible? Or ESRIPDX? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-06/line/1428341493413
#
tantek
dietrich: ok good to know. any ETA on when community members may be able to host @MozPDX?
#
tantek
voxpelli: optimizing for the fetcher rather than the publisher is a bad path to go down (and ends up creating bad standards)
#
bengo
@voxpelli Perhaps web mentions could register a well-known URI: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5785
#
@aaronpk
@voxpelli @mahemoff That's already the case, fetch the URL and look for the rel=webmention and rel=hub tag
(twitter.com/_/status/585140464489103360)
#
tantek
wellknownURI--
#
Loqi
wellknownURI has -1 karma
#
dietrich
tantek: not yet, will ping WPR again
#
tantek
bengo - why do people keep making up the need for a well-known URI when no such need exists in practice? Why is it so seductive?
#
tantek
and why do developers jump to that assumption?
#
bengo
Let's say I have 10 blog posts. It's easier for me as a publisher to 'publish' my web mention URL once and not 10 times
#
voxpelli
tantek: well, original tweet was about publishing stuff in manifest.json, hence the host-meta tweet
#
david.shanske.com
edited /WordPress_Plugins (+64) "/* Optional plugins */"
(view diff)
#
tantek
voxpelli: I haven't been impressed by the progress (or lack thereof) of manifest.json
#
tantek
bengo: is it? example?
#
tantek
so far people have found it easier to just stick such things in their post permalink template and be done with it.
#
bengo
It's subjective I suppose. But the example would be earlier this week when I wanted to start implementing webmentions
#
voxpelli
bengo: host-meta already has a .well-known URL for link relations – no need for more if one wants to go down that path
#
tantek
see every example on /webmention that supports receiving them
#
bengo
and don't have a 'post permalink template'
#
bengo
(yet)
#
tantek
it's not webmentions that drives a post permalink template
#
tantek
it's publishing frequently that does
#
bengo
Obv I will need one if I hope to implement things like that
#
GWG
Okay. Location support 1.0 done. Next challenge...go places.
#
tantek
that's the difference between theory and practice
#
bengo
in theory they're the same...
#
bengo
in practice they're not
#
tantek
once you start practicing by publishing on your own site, you'll find you'll optimize all kinds of things as a publisher, including making some sort of a post permalink template, even if just hardcoded in your PHP (ahem ;) )
#
voxpelli
For silo<->silo interactions it could be beneficial to avoid fetching each post
#
bengo
This week: templates...
#
gRegor`
bengo++
#
Loqi
bengo has 7 karma
#
tantek
silo<->silo interactions have no market drive right now and are antagonistic at best
#
tantek
not really worth anyone's time trying to solve that problem
#
tantek
they have no desire to interoperate
#
gRegor`
bengo: Building your site from scratch or on an existing CMS?
#
tantek
gRegor`: wasn't there a cartoon about that recently?
#
bengo
Ya ya I saw it
#
tantek
from KevinMarks I think
#
gRegor`
Yep, quite funny
#
voxpelli
well, I happen to work at one of them so solving it is more or less my job ;) but so think solving it by scale would be more feasible and more Indieweb friendly
#
bengo
(same-ish)
#
gRegor`
You can cache the endpoints; don't need to fetch it each time necessarily.
#
tantek
voxpelli: I disagree with that approach (scale first, indieweb friendly second)
#
tantek
voxpelli: instead just go directly interoperate with indieweb
#
voxpelli
bengo: cool, which one? I'm at Bloglovin
#
aaronpk
gRegor`: my endpoints change every 5 minutes ;)
#
tantek
that is, indieweb /friendly first, other silos second
#
voxpelli
tantek: that was what I meant
#
aaronpk
i might back off from that a bit though, i'm not sure i'm actually gaining anything
#
tantek
voxpelli: ok :)
#
gRegor`
aaronpk: True true. I thought bridgy was caching endpoints, so how does that work for you?
#
aaronpk
i had to special-case bridgy and give it longer lasting endpoints
#
gRegor`
Ah, right
#
voxpelli
bengo: nice, interesting platform, great case for WebMention ;)
#
bengo
Hope so
#
tantek
dangit just got another unsolicited random google site request show up in my browser: https://0.client-channel.google.com/client-channel/client?cfg=...
#
tantek
this looks suspicious to me so that's why I'm reporting it publicly here on the record
#
tantek
this is happening in Firefox
#
tantek
my Qs: what is causing this? how do I disable / uninstall it?
#
tantek
hashbangURLs--
#
Loqi
hashbangURLs has -1 karma
#
aaronpk
i'm very glad twitter backed down from the hashbang url thing a long time ago
#
tantek
looks like G+ is to blame
#
tantek
going through my open tabs and closing any plus.google URLs
#
snarfed
aaronpk++ (that it's not clear what problem a fast-expiring wm endpoint solves)
#
Loqi
aaronpk has 753 karma
benwerd and bengo joined the channel
#
tantek
prepare for imminent bridgy FB invite backfeed flood
#
@aaronpk
@voxpelli @mahemoff The problem is not all URLs on a domain are required to support webmention or PuSH, so per-URL discovery is still useful
(twitter.com/_/status/585148378167681024)
#
tantek
aaronpk: sounds like good FAQs to add to /discovery
#
tantek
(here it comes)
#
snarfed
wonder why/when the invitee names broke
#
snarfed
used to include them instead of profile url
#
tantek
snarfed: perhaps the extra #RANDOMNUMBER broke things?
#
snarfed
tantek: maybe, but i think that was before
#
aaronpk
the names still show up for RSVPs i think
#
aaronpk
not sure if that's a bridgy problem or webmention.io problem
#
KevinMarks_
My post template is copy paste from a previous post. I still have webmention urls
#
KevinMarks_
Probably at the point where having an actual template process would be good now
#
@rhiaro
@jarofgreen awesome! The number of people I can communicate with is increasing! Better get my webmention sorted..
(twitter.com/_/status/585150826890530816)
bengo joined the channel
#
tantek
KevinMarks: see also what is a template?
#
Loqi
A template is a file used to generate a page https://indiewebcamp.com/template
tilgovi and bengo joined the channel
#
tantek
looks like we're through the Bridgy storm
#
davidmead
i see you have a CHI location for that one @tantek. I’ll have to check those more often now our main office is there. I can plan my visits accordingly ;-)
bengo joined the channel
#
tantek
ok all plus.google and mail.google tabs closed.
#
aaronpk
do you have any google-related plugins installed?
#
tantek
checking
glennjones joined the channel
#
tantek
don't think so
#
tantek
plugins: openh264, quicktime
#
tantek
extensions: fireftp, live http headers, mass password reset, noscript, test pilot, µBlock
#
gRegor`
Hi, davidmead. Yeah, KartikPrabhu and I have been having HWC in Chicago for a while. It's usually been the two of us, with an occasional visitor. I am actually moving away later this month and the HWC meetings were going on hold. You should definitely connect with KartikPrabhu if you'd like to continue the Chicago HWC meetings. It would be great to have you.
#
davidmead
good to know @gregor. i’m based in Cleveland OH, but I do get out to CHI every now and again for work. I’ll reach out to you &
#
davidmead
@KartikPrabhu next time i’m there :-)
#
KartikPrabhu
davidmead: sounds good!
#
tantek
davidmead: in case you can plan for it - every two weeks on Wednseday!
#
tantek
rereads benwerd's brief article from almost 2 years ago: werd.io/entry/51c72566bed7dee673ee2052/the-tyranny-of-content-types-indiewebcamp
#
davidmead
thx for the heads-up @tantek. i’ll be at IAS15 this month, so it maybe May untli I can make it
#
tantek
if there's a particular May HWC you can make - definitely speak up!
#
tantek
looks like the May dates will be … 6th and 20th
bengo and KevinMarks__ joined the channel
#
tantek.com
edited /posts (+455) "/* Inferring post kinds from properties */ add benwerd's article, cluster with aaronpk's in new subsection Articles about implied post types, add u-tag-of"
(view diff)
#
tantek
was just looking at comments on an old post: notizblog.org/2013/06/20/5231/
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
tantek
the last comment from http://shawfactor.com/2013/08/06/thoughts-on-extending-webmentions/ has a weird line in the middle: "(adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); " looks like an attempt to inject ads with a script tag via webmention
#
tantek
what's worse - if you go to the permalink now http://shawfactor.com/2013/08/06/thoughts-on-extending-webmentions/ - you see ZERO content without JS
#
aaronpk
i see zero content *with* js
#
tantek
view source and it's all metacrap and one big <script type="application/ld+json"> block
#
bengo
Is there a good indieweb test service? e.g. http://testmyindieweb.com/?url=http://bengo.is ?
#
tantek
aaronpk - just goes to show, depend on js for content, make your content fragile
#
aaronpk
there isn't even a body tag...
#
bengo
that could test that sort of thing?
#
tantek
bengo - yes, indiewebify.me
#
bengo
Thank you
#
aaronpk
i'm suspicious that shawfactor.com is working properly... I suspect there's some error causing only part of the HTML to render
#
bret
anyone seen any updates on on transmat.io lately?
#
Loqi
bret: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 54 minutes ago: do we have a venue figured out for this week's HWC Portland? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-04-08-homebrew-website-club#Where Is MozPDX possible? Or ESRIPDX? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-06/line/1428341493413
#
aaronpk
becuase there's a <head> tag but no </head>
#
tantek
hey LD/LDP fans - pages like this are why LD/LDP is not taken seriously on the open web: http://shawfactor.com/2013/08/06/thoughts-on-extending-webmentions/ (cc: rhiaro, elf-pavlik, sandro etc.)
#
tantek
(for your own backend, do whatever works best for you of course, whether LD/LDP or something else, this is only about what is served *on the web*)
glennjones, wolftune and eschnou joined the channel
#
aaronpk
oh it's wordpress, yeah i bet there's a PHP error in the entry template causing it to stop outputting HTML part way
#
tantek
aaronpk - if that's the case then there's at least 3x DRY violations in that page
#
tantek
with all the metacrap, the custom script tag, and the not-rendered-HTML
#
tantek
not sure why publishers was 4x the time like that
#
tantek
s/was/waste
#
Loqi
tantek meant to say: not sure why publishers waste 4x the time like that
#
tantek
nevermind 4x the bandwidth
#
aaronpk
who is shawfactor.com?
#
rhiaro
tantek: huh? What has the broken WordPress site got to do with LDP? (On my phone so haven't looked at source)
#
voxpelli
bengo: there are two WebMention specific test tools here: http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#node-webmention-testpinger
#
bengo
@voxpelli nice, thx!
#
bengo
IndieMark + good testing tools provide a great onboarding/ondevving experience
#
tantek
rhiaro: they chose to be distracted by *tons* of metacrap, then a weird LD/LDP script block, instead of just focusing on visible content.
#
tantek
it's an example of a failure to prioritize for the open web
#
tantek
that pattern of people shoving a bunch of data into a weird script block is usually indicative of a js;dr page
#
rhiaro
I guess I'll look at the source later, curious what their LDP script is
#
rhiaro
As far as I know, LDP doesn't depend on js!
#
tantek
it looks like a big block of JSON-LD inside <script type="application/ld+json">
#
tantek
rhiaro: in practice, since JSON is trendy, and there's a pattern of the RDF/SemWeb folks trying so hard to be popular by jumping on the latest trendy, in practice they end up depending on trendy, which today means depending on JS
#
tantek
pattern: RDF/XML when XML was trendy, then RDFa when microformats/HTML became trendy, then JSON-LD when JSON became trendy.
#
bret
what was that tweet you did a while back tantek ? the one about putting content inside embedded scripts tags
#
rhiaro
I dunno, syntaxes can be translated between, seems kind of irrelevant. Unless whatever someone does breaks the page, but that's just a broken system
#
rhiaro
Building a whole page on the frontend isn't an inherent json-ld problem
#
tantek
rhiaro: problem is when someone 1) uses 3-4x syntaxes *on the front end*, and 2) misprioritizes which syntaxes they get to work first
#
tantek
so no it's not irrelevant - having so many syntaxes distracts people from actually making stuff work on the web
#
tantek
also "translated between" = extra work
#
tantek
extra work is not free
#
rhiaro
Well obviously anything but html on the frontend doesn't make sense
#
tantek
agreedn that "building a whole page on the frontend isn't an inherent json-ld problem" - however it's sad that JSON-LD advocates have fallen for that same trap just because it's trendy for so many to jump off the js;dr cliff to the death of their pages
zachdonovan_ joined the channel
#
tantek
demonstrates trendiness > critical thinking
andicascadesf joined the channel
#
rhiaro
Who are the jsonld advocates who do this?
#
tantek
bret - still looking for that post - darn search
#
tantek
rhiaro: not sure, yet that page is an example of evidence thereof
#
bret
you know which one though? something about rediscovery of some MS metadata project?
#
tantek
yeah - Google reinvents XML Data Islands
#
andicascadesf
I should put this on my own site, but thought you’d be proud that I am blogging. My first post is going somewhat viral!
#
tantek
andicascadesf: are you asking how to host that post on your own site? LinkedIn is an awful silo to relegate your posts to
#
Loqi
agreed.
#
bret
andicascadesf: I read that!
#
bret
definately get that onto your own site
#
andicascadesf
nope
#
andicascadesf
I’m just showing you guys that I’m writing and sharing my voice.
#
andicascadesf
Homebrew meetups inspired me to a lot.
#
bret
andicascadesf++
#
Loqi
andicascadesf has 3 karma
#
tantek
andicascadesf: great post content though!
#
andicascadesf
Thank you!
#
tantek
would LOVE to see that on your own site and you getting the traffic instead of linkedin
#
tantek
at a minimum go get a Known site for yourself at withknown.com
#
tantek
I believe Known can POSSE to LinkedIn
#
andicascadesf
I’d like for it to be on cascadesf.com
#
andicascadesf
but it’s also myself
#
tantek
then post it on your own domain, and POSSE to *both* cascadesf and LinkedIn
#
andicascadesf
and do you guys use a CMS?
#
andicascadesf
absolutely
#
tantek
andicascadesf: we all do, many of us CMSs that we built ourselves
#
andicascadesf
I’ve used WordPress but it keeps getting hacked into
#
tantek
andicascadesf: hence I'm recommending you to try out Known and withknown.com
#
andicascadesf
I’d like to
#
tantek
WordPress is also a good option - plenty of folks here who can help if that's your choice
#
andicascadesf
I have a lot of experience in WordPress and have hacked the templates
#
andicascadesf
BUT have issues with security
#
andicascadesf
need to make sure the blog is secure
#
tantek
what is wordpress security?
#
Loqi
One of the most important things for new users to do is to properly secure their Wordpress installation https://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress_Security
#
KevinMarks
wordpress is a big target
#
andicascadesf
It is and it’s frustrating because I have coded entire sites then get discouraged when they crash.
#
andicascadesf
This Wednesdsay is also UXNight, so I can’t make it to HBM, but wish I could. :/
#
tantek
rhiaro: the trendiness of JSON(-LD) for *frontend* data has gotten so bad that it's even infected some part of Google
#
tantek
it's kind of a joke that they're referring to it as "HTML Event Markup"
#
tantek
andicascadesf: did you at least save your data/posts from those sites that have crashed?
#
bret
andicascadesf: if dynamic apps and dbs have been a hassle, you might consider a static site generator. they tend to be a little more effort to get set up, but since raw html and css files is the output, its less likely to get hacked
#
tantek
or did you lose your data forever?
#
andicascadesf
yes
#
andicascadesf
i have it backed up
#
andicascadesf
just didn’t know how to restore it
#
tantek
Known has a WordPress importer
#
andicascadesf
yeah i was having issues using it
#
tantek
you should be able to import your WP backup into a Known install
#
andicascadesf
ooh
#
andicascadesf
Would love to support Erin and Ben too.
#
tantek
totally
#
andicascadesf
how do you manage comments on wordpress?
#
andicascadesf
or on your blog?
#
andicascadesf
do you approve them?
#
tantek
depends on who you ask and with what tool :)
#
tantek
GWG, sounds like a question you could answer
#
GWG
andicascadesf: I'm not sure I understand the question
#
GWG
andicascadesf: WordPress has a built-in comments mnager
bengo joined the channel
#
andicascadesf
I know that part but notice there’s a lot of spam if I don’t manage it properly
#
andicascadesf
so was wondering if you have any tips
#
aaronpk
not allowing native comments is the best way to avoid spam :)
wolftune joined the channel
#
GWG
andicascadesf: There are plenty of spam prevention plugins.
#
GWG
Akismet is probably the most popular.
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
andicascadesf
I’m going to ask more questions later because I have to go to lunch
#
andicascadesf
real quickly
#
GWG
andicascadesf: Any time.
marclaporte joined the channel
#
andicascadesf
Is index.php required to run WordPress? Or can I point it to something like blog.php
KevinMarks__ joined the channel
#
andicascadesf
For cascadesf.com I used a simple HTML template, but still have WordPress installed.
#
aaronpk
changing core files is usually a bad idea because it breaks the auto-upgrade stuff
#
GWG
index.php is usually used, but you could do example.com/blog and install it in a subdirector
#
andicascadesf
Should I run a completely new reinstall?
#
andicascadesf
Wow, you guys are so helpful! If you need any design feedback / CSS styles, LMK.
#
andicascadesf
Okay, I am going to head to lunch. Thank you everyone for your help! WOOHOO!
frzn joined the channel
#
rhiaro
tantek: I had a look at that json, it's just schema.org markup :p
#
rhiaro
seems like maybe that whole site is overengineered for seo
#
rhiaro
schema.org doesn't count as ld because it only links with google...
#
kylewm
rhiaro++
#
tantek
rhiaro: lol - tell that to all JSON-LD advocates that love to hype schema as a JSON-LD success (e.g. Manu).
#
Loqi
rhiaro has 48 karma
#
tantek
previously was all the RDFa advocates that loved to hype FB OGP as an RDFa success (similar level of not really working, not really being the right syntax, hardcoded prefixes etc.)
#
rhiaro
Okay, I'm gonna implement likes on my site then go to bed
#
rhiaro
By 'implement', I mean post something with a like-of and in theory it should just work... I think all the pieces are there..
#
@NorthCreekSoft
#ownyourdata price data migration into cost of purchasing all-in-one business software, b/c onesies never fit perfectly everywhere
(twitter.com/_/status/585180967540764674)
#
tantek
rhiaro: are you automatically sending webmentions to all links in your posts?
#
rhiaro
tantek: not yet
KevinMarks_, KevinMarks__ and gillisig joined the channel
#
bret
woo rhiaro++
#
GWG
WordPress just rejected my plugin. Interesting experience.
tantek and e-lima joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme
GWG, for what reason?
#
kylewm
GWG: and which one?
#
GWG
Post data not sanitized and function names not prefixed.
#
GWG
Oh, and they told me I needed to enumerate external resources, but I am questioning that one.
#
GWG
Simple Location, the latest one.
#
GWG
My attempt to address the lack of a good and simple location plugin for WordPress
#
GWG
I just keep wondering if I just made mistakes, or this person is much more thorough than whoever passed me on Post Kinds and Syndication Links.
wolftune, tantek and torrorist joined the channel
#
tantek
checks logs
#
tantek
sorry to hear that GWG, however sounds like the suggested improvements would be useful?
#
tantek
rhiaro: will be interesting to hear your approach to automatically sending webmentions
#
GWG
tantek: They would. I just don't remember the same commentary before.
#
tantek
sounds like any submission / approval process, e.g. AppStore
#
GWG
tantek: The person who rejected me is big in the approval process. But I'm positive I must have broken some of these rules before.
#
aaronpk
community code review is good
#
GWG
aaronpk: Agreed. I'm saying I wish I had more of it
#
tantek
GWG, look at it this way, it's great that someone "big in the approval process" paid attention to your submission!
#
tantek
I see that as an indication of higher level of respect / consideration for your submission(s).
frzn joined the channel
#
benwerd
Does anyone here have Internet access in their car?
#
benwerd
(By design or hack?)
tantek__1 joined the channel
#
aaronpk
i have internet access on my phone in cars...
#
tantek
benwerd is that like a car phone? something physically attached to the car that provides wifi?
#
benwerd
Apparently 50% of the cars sold in 2015 will have built-in Internet access. I imagine like a built-in 4G LTE hotspot.
#
aaronpk
ah, I always wanted to do that
tantek____ joined the channel
#
aaronpk
I will have to do that for my bike instead, since I don't have a car
#
tantek
great - yet another monthly service provider charge :P
#
benwerd
Subscriptions coming out of our (g)ears
#
benwerd
Just curious, because my 1996 Dodge Caravan is most certainly not connected, and I was wondering if anyone knew how they worked first-hand
#
tantek
I'm thinking the inverse might be more interesting - a wifi *client* built-into my car that's constantly mapping open(ish) wifi networks as I'm driving, geotagging and them and collecting them into a "db" that's auto-sync'd with my personal mobile devices.
#
sparverius
benwerd: almost all luxury cars ship with them now (BMW, mercedes, etc)
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
aaronpk
i was contributing to that a while ago, when I had a windows phone that could run the scanning software all the time
#
tantek
I would also have it collect *closed* wifi networks that happened to be named the same thing as the name of a venue within 1-2 blocks, with the likely assumption that were one to go to those venues, one could ask for the pw.
#
sparverius
even if you dont pay the monthly fee for traffic they can still be used to push updates (!) albeit only to the infotainment system
#
tantek
aaronpk - hah - do you remember Plazes?
#
sparverius
bmw got busted for falling back to http recently
#
sparverius
which is So Amazing
#
tantek
sparverius that is amazing
#
aaronpk
apparently that turned into here.com
#
benwerd
Could work like those smart door locks, which transfer small amounts of information to and from your mobile device every time you walk through the doorway
#
sparverius
The fix adds HTTPS encryption to the connection from BMW to the car, which runs over the public cellular network. The added encryption will not only safeguard the content of the messages but also ensures that the car only accepts connections from a server with the correct security certificate.
#
tantek
aaronpk: pretty sure Plazes got acquired and shut down
#
benwerd
Eventually the packets add up to a real update, eg a software upgrade
#
tantek
never reemerged
#
aaronpk
yeah looks like the team got put on Here.com at nokia
#
sparverius
benwerd: aaronpk: like 3ds spotpass
#
tantek
aaronpk at one point they thought I was running a script because I was creating so many new Plazes. I was using my laptop and driving slowly with my car, then pulling over when it went "ding" that it had found a new open hotspot
#
sparverius
when you walk around, it quietly connects to "nintendo points", which are just att hotspots, and downloads promos and system updates
#
tantek____
in other news - aaronpk, have you considere or do you have a Google Alert setup for "IndieWeb" OR "The Indie Web" ?
#
aaronpk
google alert? hmm let me check
#
tantek____
I was just searching Google News for any evidence that the Boston Globe article happened
#
aaronpk
just "indieweb"
#
aaronpk
huh.. all of my rss alerts are empty
#
aaronpk
did they shut that down?
#
tantek____
yet another RSS death? YARD?
#
sparverius
google alerts have been broken for years though
#
sparverius
so it might not be rss but just fundamentally broken
#
aaronpk
and i can't update the alert to an email alert "We could not find a record of your alert" when I click save
pauloppenheim joined the channel
#
tantek____
what is Google Alerts?
lukebrooker joined the channel
#
tantek____
huh - this came up - perhaps another source of the confusion between aral/ind.ie/indieweb : http://upstart.bizjournals.com/companies/media/2014/09/26/ello-probably-cant-dethrone-facebook-but-who-can.html?page=all
#
aaronpk
"Aral Balkan, another indieweb advocate..."?
#
tantek____
so that's kind of a sad incentive setup: write ranty post about leaving a fledgling site (that likely made overly broad claims/promises), then get cited/quoted in indexed media
#
tantek____
aaronpk - it is a true statement. Aral is an advocate of indieweb (among other things)
#
tantek____
anyway, suffice it to say not much coming up from Google News search
#
tantek____
checks Yahoo
#
tantek____
*nothing* on Yahoo News for "IndieWeb"
#
tantek____
lots of false positives for "Indie Web Show" etc.
#
tantek
Hmm - I thought more folks had setup /comms pages on their sites
#
tantek
checking the /comms page I only see myself and Tim Owens listed
bengo joined the channel
#
tantek____
looks like implementing site-specific tag-search - even html5rocks screws it up: http://updates.html5rocks.com/tag/add%20to%20homescreen (linked from that aforementioned article on Web App install banner)
#
tantek____
*is hard
#
tantek.com
edited /communication (+1388) "/* Brainstorming */ Improving Install Experience - perhaps some hope with Web App install banners"
(view diff)
wolftune and tantek_____ joined the channel
#
tantek_____
on the question of discrete post types - there appears to be quite a gulf between implicit ActivityStreams spec assumptions and experience in this community
#
tantek_____
"ISSUE-4: Do we rely on explicit typing or support implicit typing based on explicit property names?"
#
tantek_____
the sadder thing is the email threads linked to from that issue and related, e.g. linked from http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/35
#
tantek_____
"ACTION-35: Come up with a simple proposal for implicit typing based on property names"
pauloppenheim joined the channel
#
tantek_____
I wonder if instead of just a simple proposal for implicit typing, would it be better to come up with a simple proposal alternative to ActivityStreams, e.g. "Post Streams"
#
bengo
It kind of seems like JSON-LD already contains support for 'implicit typing based on property names'
#
bengo
i.e. you can use @context to map whatever property names you want to the formally defined AS vocabulary properties
#
tantek_____
bengo, if you listen to the advocates, both LDP and JSON-LD already do anything and everything you could possibly want in a platform
#
tantek_____
of course these are advocates that don't actually ship anything on their own site
#
bengo
I agree with that second statement
#
tantek_____
so it is easy to simply start dismissing all such claims about LDP/JSON-LD
#
bengo
The first one is a generalization bound to be inaccurate
#
tantek_____
bengo the "you could map whatever" type claims were also made of OWL
#
bengo
I am an advocate who is not saying it will do everything and everything :) But I'm empathetic to your frustrations
#
tantek_____
in practice no one has any actual working systems that do this
#
tantek_____
"map whatever names you want" is one of those red flags in these conversations
#
tantek_____
usually said by people who have never shipped a system that does that
#
bengo
Well I better get on shipping a system then.
#
bengo
I struggle a bit to understand exactly what the #social folks expect the 'Social API' to BE
#
bengo
even wrt an HTTP web API vs a browser api
#
rhiaro
..Aaaaand likes, reposts and bookmarks are go on rhiaro.co.uk
#
bengo
My use case is I want to be able to access my indieweb posts/entries/whatever as JSON using some someone interoperable format, so that one could make a widget/visualization of those posts that would work for any URL speaking that interoperable format
#
bengo
i.e. this but for http://bengo.is/notes intend of the test content there: http://s.codepen.io/gobengo/debug/dFwDL?
#
bengo
TBH a JSON response from some api isn't strictly necessary. It could request HTML and then use a runtime parser to extract the entries/ASObjects/whatever into JS objects that can be rendered
#
tantek_____
bengo - that latter is what we do with microformats2 and microformats2 parsers that return JSON
#
tantek_____
rhiaro - awesome!
#
rhiaro
took longer than I thought it would
#
bengo
@tantek_____ totally. I think that's a pretty great use case to accommodate for. I like the principle of "As an indieweb publisher, I should only have to publish HTML with reasonable metadata"
#
tantek_____
rhiaro are you POSSEing your likes, resposts, bookmarks to any silos?
#
rhiaro
@tantek_____: again, not yet
#
rhiaro
will set up bridgy soon
#
loqi.me
created /Java_shop_politics (+116) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek"
(view diff)
snarfed joined the channel
#
bengo
@tantek_____, if I were to crawl http://tantek.com/, which metadata do you consider the best to use to get a machine-readable version of the entries there? If HTML+microformats2, is there any convention on how to page through the feed? e.g. the homepage may only render the first 10 of 1mm posts. How do I get from 1-10 to 10-11+?
#
tantek_____
bengo - I don't think anyone has solved the pagination problem
#
bengo
Cool, good to know
#
tantek_____
in practice it hasn't been a priority
#
tantek_____
as in - for what use-case / user-scenario do you need it?
#
tantek_____
so far, simply having a live "feed" on a home page, and properly marked up permalink pages has been sufficient for existing use-cases
#
bengo
If I wanted to be able to make a general-purpose 'reader' of a given blog/set-of-posts, I'd want that to power any sort of infinite scroll or 'show more' functionality
#
bengo
e.g. the 'show more' button here http://s.codepen.io/gobengo/debug/dFwDL?
#
bengo
'Load more', I mean
#
tantek_____
bengo - so far no one building an indie /reader has run into that problem
#
tantek_____
thus it's not clear it's necessary or even a priority for a "general-purpose reader"
#
tantek_____
do you have a reader UI on your own site?
#
rhiaro
tantek_____: sent you a manual webmention for that like
#
snarfed
bengo: imho wordpress does paging and even infinite scroll reasonably. see https://snarfed.org/ for an example. scroll to the bottom, keep scrolling, watch the url update to point to each page
#
bengo
@tantek_____ nope, but I intend to get there. Happy not to bug you again about it until I do :) Just getting context
#
tantek_____
rhiaro unfortunately my webmentions are all getting queued up at webmention.io :/ and I haven't written code to extract/store/display them yet
#
snarfed
(one bug is that it should show a "loading" spinner while it's loading the next page, but doesn't)
#
rhiaro
well, it's there when you need it :)
#
tantek_____
thanks rhiaro :)
#
tantek_____
bengo - I encourage you to build a minimum viable reader for yourself, and postpone/procastinate worrying about anything else
#
bengo
The furthest I've seen helping with the pagination problem in AS-land are some of the properties defined on AS 'Collection's (e.g. 'next', 'prev') http://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-core/#collections
#
bengo
But @tantek_____ I will do that ;)
#
bengo
Thanks for the context bootstrapping
#
tantek_____
bengo - ah, for next/prev, my post permalinks *do* link to the next/prev posts with standard HTML rel=next rel=prev
#
bengo
Was about to post the relevant link del spec for that
#
bengo
But think that's a great solution for HTML
#
tantek_____
so you can paginate in the old sense of the word, one post at a time :)
#
bengo
That's sufficient!
#
tantek_____
no need for AS or "Collections" or anything else
#
tantek_____
even if it is quite rudimentary / "inefficient" to request one post at a time
#
tantek_____
I need to add such next/prev links to my archive pages
#
bengo
@rhiaro is all the data for http://rhiaro.co.uk/ stored in MySQL, queried as SPARQL via https://github.com/semsol/arc2 ?
#
rhiaro
bengo: up
#
rhiaro
s/up/yup
#
Loqi
rhiaro meant to say: bengo: yup
#
bengo
slick
#
rhiaro
hm, not sure about slick :p
#
bengo
Got curious after seeing the sparql query things on there
#
rhiaro
good, that was what they are there for :D
#
rhiaro
tangled mess of php is at bitbucket.org/rhiaro/slogd if you're interested
#
tantek_____
rhiaro - add yourself and your site to the end of this list! http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#IndieWeb_Examples
#
rhiaro
bengo: as of yesterday you can get my blog posts back as a few flavours of rdf, or markdown http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/04/blog-post-content
#
KartikPrabhu
what is SPARQL?
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: the real question is how do you pronounce SPARQL
#
rhiaro
SPARKLE
#
rhiaro
there is no question.
#
tantek
or Spar-Queue-Ell
#
rhiaro
nononono
#
rhiaro
feels very strongly about this
#
tantek
for those looking for a query language for sparring ;)
#
KartikPrabhu
"one does not simply prounce SPARQL" ;)
#
tantek
it's like "My - Ess - Queue - Ell"
alexhartley joined the channel
#
rhiaro.co.uk
edited /Micropub (+449) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
(view diff)
#
KevinMarks
you mean "My Sequel"
#
@mikeindustries
Proper Retweet-With-Comment is rolling out right now. Sorry it took so long! https://twitter.com/twitter/status/585225218093932544
(twitter.com/_/status/585226627484749824)
#
benwerd
I bet this is not covered in the API yet.
#
benwerd
Confirmed; it does not appear to be covered in the API.
#
kylewm
whaaaat
#
@rhiaro
I meant to watch House of Cards this evening, but I accidentally implemented likes, reposts, bookmarks a... http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/04/meant-watch-house #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/585229697631580161)
#
tantek
as the description says, it's "quote Tweet", not "retweet with comment" :P https://twitter.com/twitter/status/585225218093932544
#
kylewm
clicking retweet in the web ui pops up a comment dialog box now!
#
KevinMarks
so they can't even ship consistently
#
kylewm
and the counter starts at 116