#indiewebcamp 2015-04-12

2015-04-12 UTC
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snarfed if you wanted to get really exotic…i was trying to think of how to do it with something like unhosted or hoodie (indie/open source) or https://www.parse.com/ (commercial)
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snarfed …but you really do need to deploy actual server side code, since it's a service, so probably not
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snarfed i guess parse does support that: https://www.parse.com/docs/cloud_code_guide
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tantek What is Parse?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Parse" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Parse&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-04-11%2Fline%2F1428797285616
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kylewm heh, these are indeed exotic
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snarfed Parse is https://www.parse.com/
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loqi.me created /Parse (+58) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-11/line/1428797285616 and dfn added by snarfed" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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GWG Evening.
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GWG snarfed: Can I pick your brain?
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snarfed GWG: shoot
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kylewm i hope somebody cracks the PaaS for hobbyists market. it doesn't have to be free but cheaper the better
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GWG And yes, I know I don't have to ask, but...
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snarfed :P
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tantek what is PaaS?
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Loqi PAAS (Platform as a Service) is a hosting environment typically for a web applications written in scripting languages (python, ruby, node) and usually offers simplified setup and maintenance tools compared to a VPS https://indiewebcamp.com/PaaS
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snarfed kylewm: interesting. you think there's no truly hobbyist-friendly PaaS yet?
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GWG snarfed: I took your Micropub code and pfefferle's webmention code, and created a simple web action URL API for Post Kinds.
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snarfed GWG: cool!
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tantek wow
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kylewm snarfed: I think Heroku was but they're taking it away! $7/month isn't going to break the bank, but it's a lot for little proof of concept projects, especially if you have more than one
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snarfed it depends on post kinds?
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snarfed kylewm: ah, hobbyist meaning free tier
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snarfed obligatory, gae still has its
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snarfed i think azure does too
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GWG snarfed: I built it into the Post Kinds plugin because I wanted it to set things as bookmark, like, etc.
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snarfed aws's is only a year long, but that's something
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kylewm it really doesn't have to be free, but I can run a lot of apps on Digital Ocean for $5
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snarfed yup. [insert sysadmin time vs money tradeoff here]
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GWG snarfed: Sysadmin time isn't that bad.
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snarfed pick a dollar amount you value your time at, and even if it's low, e.g. $10/hr, a few hrs on ops saved here and there buys you many months on a PaaS
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snarfed GWG: it's subjective, but i think you may be in the minority :P
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kylewm I guess, and I guess most hobbies cost more :)
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snarfed yup
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tantek snarfed: does that tradeoff duck the issues / costs of PaaS portability / lockin?
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GWG snarfed: But, my question for you, as you lean toward marking up inside the content box and I lean toward doing it outside same...do you think there is a point in taking the work I did, moving it out of Post Kinds, and having it, if Post Kinds is not installed, like your Micropub plugin, doing the markup itself in the content box? It isn't a use case I need, but I want to advance WordPress as an Indieweb platform, so it might be one someone else wants,
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snarfed small amounts of money are real constraints for some people, and worth remembering…but honsetly i think many of us in communities like this overvalue our money and undervalue our time
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snarfed tantek: it's a valid concern but i think it's orthogonal
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snarfed obligatory: https://snarfed.org/2012-08-12_time_is_worth_more_than_money
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tantek snarfed, I'm not sure it's orthogonal, as PaaS are all custom snowflakes today, whereas webhosting is fairly similar/portable
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snarfed tantek: you're just (re)stating the issue. again, i think it's valid, just separate from the question of whether to spend $$$ on ops (PaaS) vs time on ops (VM, etc)
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tantek PaaS has always felt like a proprietary trap to me, hence I've typically avoided it, even if it would reduce some admin time.
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tantek since the cost of escaping such a trap would likely be a lot more
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tantek (time cost)
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snarfed eh i don't know about that. sometimes yes, but not always
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tantek Heroku is a good example
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snarfed (i'm still going to try to duck the full debate though, at least right now :P)
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snarfed GWG: honestly i have no clue
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snarfed oh actually
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GWG snarfed: It's more the...does it make sense to have a lot of little plugins or some consolidation?
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snarfed yes i would vote for that. progressive enhancement if post kinds is installed, but still works if not
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snarfed i vote consolidation, but it's a subjective question
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GWG It's a question of what needs consolidation.
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kylewm tantek: Heroku is a good example of lock-in or not lock-in?
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GWG For example, I think webmentions for comments, one of pfefferle's projects, should eventually merge into webmentions proper.
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tantek kylewm: lock-in, though I think I've heard there are heroku clones popping up?
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kylewm that hasn't been my experience with it, you can run pretyt much the same app on heroku and a vanilla linux machine
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GWG snarfed: Either way, I wrote the web action stuff as a standalone file I included in Post Kinds. Taking it out and making it its own thing is just a matter of some minor tweaks.
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kylewm it doesn't have like a Heroku SDK that the application has to be built on
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tantek.com edited /Heroku (+44) "-=, see also" (view diff)
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GWG On that note, I think I'll go drive 100 miles or so.
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snarfed i also think the thought process for evaluating lock-in, etc. is a bit different when you're developing a single app/service vs an indie web site or CMS that people will run their indie web sites on, e.g. Known
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snarfed (also applies to the database antipattern. i suspect much of the controversy there was that people missed that distinction.)
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snarfed failed to duck the debate
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kylewm yes that's true
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kylewm if GAE goes down tomorrow and takes bridgy with it, i still have all my data
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snarfed kylewm: picked a platform yet?
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kylewm whether you meant to or not, you convinced me to stick with heroku :p
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snarfed lol good!
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snarfed advice wise, for a project like this, i care more about PaaS over IaaS than GAE over whatever
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kylewm actually, which one is Heroku?
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kylewm looks like PaaS
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kylewm my preference for Heroku is pretty much solely predicated on liking Kenneth Reitz
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tantek kylewm: Kevinmarks has plenty of experience deploying/running things on Heroku
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tantek I believe noterlive runs there
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bengo kylewm: wrt the "PaaS" for hobbyists, I couldn't agree more. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-11/line/1428797573332
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bengo If you are willing to worry about a bit more than just 'git push'ing some code, the cloud ecosystem is definitely getting to a point where you can run your own Heroku-like on your own VMs (hosted on any cloud like ec2, gce, backspace, whatever)
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bengo http://deis.io/
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bengo https://flynn.io/
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bengo Those are the two vhttps://github.com/progrium/dokku
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bengo https://github.com/progrium/dokku
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bengo Err, those are the three most popular open-source PaaS
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bengo (but you have to run them on your own fleet of VMs. It's not hosted/managed like Heroku)
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bengo #indiecloud would be a good channel
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tantek.com edited /site-deaths (+1) "FriendFeed shutdown as announced" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /site-deaths (+87) "/* 2015 */ unknown number of user profiles and posts losts" (view diff)
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kylewm I had some trouble with dokku a while back that put me off it :/
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kylewm that's awesome if it's better now!
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tantek look at how many services FriendFeed had connected to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FriendFeed#Supported_services
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tantek it was one of the driving motivations / inspirations for ActivityStreams - some way to have a common model instead of having to create separate snowflake bits of code to talk to each of those services
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tantek sadly, the See Also links to Locker, another defunct project
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bengo I know a few of the Locker folks
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tantek bengo - I've met a few too
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bengo They had a hard time finding revenue
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bengo Tried a few ways of productizing, but eventually had to sell
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tantek they also never actually selfdogfooded
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bengo Yeah word
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tantek why would anyone pay for something that they themselves didn't use FOR FREE?
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bengo well.. they started trying to find ways of selling to enterprises
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bengo b2b
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bengo But you're right
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tantek I confronted Jeremie about that very early on - asking where was his own use of it with his own site.
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bengo The nature of b2b software is that you're not making software you as a human can selfdogfood
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tantek he didn't think it was important - I made the above point.
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tantek bengo - I don't believe that
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bengo And I don't really mean it :)
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tantek enterprise is a trailing indicator
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bengo But it's definitely a bit of a juggle
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tantek bengo, (or anyone here) are you familiar with SUP? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Update_Protocol
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bengo Jeremie seems back to work on more Telehash. Anyone here ever read about that?
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bengo no, i'll read about SUP
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tantek it looks like a PuSH predecessor
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bengo lol I was just about to type the same thing
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tantek oh drat, spec is on google code
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tantek http://simpleupdateprotocol.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/spec/draft-clinton-sup-current.html
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tantek "To provide feedback on this Internet-Draft, join the Simple Update Protocol room on FriendFeed." :(
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bengo haha
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Loqi nice
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bengo We recently had to build a system where PuSH or SUP would have been useful, and actually could still add it.
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bengo Instead our architect decided the first supported method of 'getting new data' would be a pulling-based api
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bengo i.e. GET /the-stream?since=LAST_TIME_DATESTAMP
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bengo I was like "wtf but we should PuSH"
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bengo but as I've seen first-users of it, sometimes their use-case is better served by initiating the requests than getting a publicly-accessible hook URL on the web
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bengo because hosting
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kylewm I think that makes sense for the least common denominator
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kylewm for silo apis that support push, they seem to support it or a limited subset of the data
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tantek also interesting that various sites supposedly implemented SUP
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tantek (per WP article)
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tantek looks like YouTube supported SUP in v2 of their API https://developers.google.com/youtube/2.0/developers_guide_protocol_sup?csw=1 and then switched to PuSH in v3 ! https://developers.google.com/youtube/v3/guides/push_notifications
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aaronpk rhiaro: that is hilarious and awesome!! Couldn't have planned that better myself!
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tantek Wikipedia is really out of date on these things
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aaronpk I've been making more Foursquare lists recently, which is now pushing the priority of adding venues to my site, because I really want those lists on my own site!
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aaronpk But now I have to figure out what a foursquare list on my site means
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aaronpk What I want to show is a named list of venues along with an optional comment about why the venue is on the list
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aaronpk Probably the list is time-ordered based on when I added the venue, but not sure about that yet
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aaronpk Even foursquare doesn't have a way for me to add a note about why I added a venue to a list
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tantek aaronpk - the best you can do is to name different lists according to why
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tantek the lists almost act as inverse tags
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aaronpk Hah yeah
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aaronpk I have lists like "$5 margaritas" and "order at the counter"
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tantek and those are tags
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tantek lol
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tantek all you have there is personal copies of venues with personal tags applied to them
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tantek the "lists" are merely aggregations of venues that *YOU* have tagged with those tags
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aaronpk Except I want to add a note about the "tag" like "happy hour 4-6" or "actually is 5.50"
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aaronpk Has anyone ever added a note along with a tag?
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tantek sounds like a comment :P
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tantek in today's adventures of fixing Wikipedia: just updated the SUP article with a Past Support section: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Update_Protocol#Past_Support
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aaronpk Maybe?
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aaronpk But the end result I want people to see is different I think
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tantek the list of things you've tagged?
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tantek you already support that
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aaronpk I think I want the page that shows venues tagged $5 margaritas to look different from my tag pages
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tantek TIL: YouTube supports PuSH: https://developers.google.com/youtube/v3/guides/push_notifications
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tantek (while fixing the WP:SUP page)
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Loqi gives aaronpk the page that shows venues tagged
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aaronpk Hah that's crazy
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tantek indeed!
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aaronpk I suspect more JSON APIs don't support PuSH 0.4 because you can't read the spec and actually go build something from it
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tantek yeah
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aaronpk Whereas 0.3 was specific enough for youtube to go make a new XML feed for it
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tantek aaronpk - just added "HTML" to the explicit list of "any data type" in the WP:PuSH page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PubSubHubbub
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aaronpk (I'm assuming that XML feed was added specifically for PuSH because of its contents)
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aaronpk Nice
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tantek I'm considering adding subheads for each site to /site-deaths
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tantek would that be useful?
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aaronpk For linking to?
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tantek yeah
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tantek was just writing a note about FriendFeed's site-death
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tantek and realized I wanted a link with more details
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aaronpk Ah yeah huh
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tantek it's kind of a big deal
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tantek FriendFeed invented the "Like" interaction UI
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tantek which dominates so much of what people consider "social" now
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kylewm https://twitter.com/buzzbishop/status/503963317916803073
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@buzzbishop I wish there was a like button for email. Just a little thing to say "got it, agree, thank you." (twitter.com/_/status/503963317916803073)
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kylewm relevant^
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aaronpk I'm sure there's some Microsoft extension for that
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aaronpk Outlook has all sorts of crazy extensions to SMTP
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aaronpk The other day I got an email immediately followed by a "withdraw" request email. Presumably email clients that understand that will actually delete the email for me
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tantek kylewm: just goes to show that likes on posts could replace email in that way
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tantek aaronpk - the subheads could also help SEO - so people searching for dead sites would find the IndieWebCamp entry about their site-death
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tantek.com edited /site-deaths (+508) "add subheads for 2015 and 2014, move myOpenID to 2015 since that was its actual shutdown" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk, take a look: https://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#2015 - I only did subheads for 2015 and 2014 to get a feel for what it would be like
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tantek you can compare 2014 adjacent to 2013 to see which one looks better in that way
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tantek (looking at this page always makes me sad :( )
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bret tantek: fixed the conditional on https://github.com/tantek/cassis/pull/20#issuecomment-91945976 did you say you had more tests somewhere?
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tantek.com edited /site-deaths (+4) "/* FriendFeed */ ()" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /like (+64) "FriendFeed capitalization" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /like (+0) "/* FriendFeed */ update WP link" (view diff)
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@t Yesterday FriendFeed shutdown http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed invented "Like" in 2007 http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed before FB in 2009. (ttk.me t4ab1) (twitter.com/_/status/587095693648535552)
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tantek bret - checking now
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tantek bret - just checking the tests now
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tantek if you want to use fake examples (e.g. your link dot com), use example.com
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tantek or real examples
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bret you want me to change them?
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tantek maybe I'll just merge and fix the :P
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tantek them
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bret k
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bret you want a .travis.yml for travis-ci testing on commits and PRs?
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tantek why is that useful?
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bret runs your tests on every commit pushed to github, checks PRs as they come in with existing tests
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bret we could prob* get your php tests running as well
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tantek huh - might have to have you show me the workflow
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tantek before switching to that
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tantek ok tests updated
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bret :D cheers
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tantek you get to be the .io example :D
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bret haha
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bret ok
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aaronpk tantek: ohh yeah the headers are good
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tantek it makes the ToC even more depressing
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk so, effective
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aaronpk tantek: check out this PR for an example of the travis tests https://github.com/resque/redis-namespace/pull/96 (scroll to the last in the thread)
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tantek.com created /FriendFeed (+349) "stub with dfn, relevance, acquisition, site-death, see also" (view diff)
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tantek what was FriendFeed?
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Loqi FriendFeed was a silo for posting content, as well as an aggregator of feeds and posts from other sites, and notably the inventor of the "Like" button in 2007 https://indiewebcamp.com/FriendFeed
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aaronpk it's neat because when I sent the PR I didn't have to do anything special, and Travis just ran the tests for me and tells me everything passed. At one point in the thread it was showing me that the tests failed in some older versions of ruby
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aaronpk so, literally no extra effort on behalf of the PR author as well as the repo maintainer, it's a totally seamless UI
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bret its pretty neato
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aaronpk I should probably set that up for the php microformats library too
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tantek aaronpk - perhaps you can show me the workflow with it next time we're in the same city
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aaronpk workflow for setting it up? I don't know how yet, but bret does. Once it's set up there's literally no change to the workflow for development
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tantek no you have to know what to do if things go wrong
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tantek so that's a change
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bret tantek: you basically get a temporary linux VM that you get to run your tests on. you set a few requirement settings and scripts to run https://github.com/bcomnes/quick-gits/blob/master/.travis.yml for example
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aaronpk oh, well, not really a change if you're already running a test suite
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aaronpk but if you aren't running tests yourself already then that's a change for sure
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tantek except I run my tests client side
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tantek in a dev folder
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tantek and then I merge that version of CASSIS to the github version
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bret if you either show me next time you are in portland, or publish/document how you do it now, I can help set it up
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aaronpk wow, github's oauth screen is getting out of control
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tantek probably easier to do it in person, then it will make more sense what to document pre/post
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bret sounds good
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aaronpk i have to like read a novel to understand what it's asking now
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aaronpk https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7640/17115999031_9d2d6be6f9_o.png
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aaronpk oh hey apparently I did set up Travis for the ruby webmention client I made a while ago
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bret i'm going to write an boilerplate travis setter upper module soon
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aaronpk I don't understand what that means
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tantek aaronpk: wow that is confusing
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tantek what is OAuth?
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Loqi OAuth is an authorization protocol created to replace the need for client applications of a service (e.g. a silo) to ask for your username and password to the service in order to access the service on your behalf https://indiewebcamp.com/oauth
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aaronpk i think facebook is still the only oauth api that implemented anything like benwerd's mockup
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@krynsky Never forget MT @t Yesterday FriendFeed shutdown http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed invented "Like" in 2007 http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed before FB in 2009 (twitter.com/_/status/587104639301988352)
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tantek is that a quoted tweet?
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tantek.com edited /OAuth (+280) "silo examples (add github) vs. brainstorming" (view diff)
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tantek no that was a manual MT
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aaronpk i'm adding a section in my book about that... but I probably can't call the chapter "Checkboxes, Bitches" as much as I want to
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tantek hahahaha
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tantek do it and see what the editors do
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aaronpk that would be hilarious
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tantek gotta give them something to fuss about to earn their keep
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aaronpk haha
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@ChrisAldrich RT @t: Yesterday FriendFeed shutdown http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed invented "Like" in 2007 http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed before FB in 2009. (ttk.me t4ab1) (twitter.com/_/status/587105574875037697)
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aaronpk oh look at that, that chapter didn't have a title yet ;)
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aaronpk maybe if I put it in quotes I can get away with it
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bret Checkboxes Bitches!
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bret you can quote me ;)
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tantek right - because then you're just quoting benward's blog post right?
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aaronpk yup :-D
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bret jk
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tantek bret don't be plagiarising benward
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tantek ;)
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bret lol
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tantek waits for benward to check his irc client / reconnect to his server to see this convo.
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tantek regarding domains being lost - https://benward.me/blog/tardns
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loqi.me created /Buzz (+26) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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aaronpk oh I didn't realize... "I worked for Yahoo when Geocities died, and I wrote a lengthy email plea to then CEO Carol Bartz that we should aid in its archiving"
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Loqi [bridgy] Micah Wittman favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/krynsky/status/587104639301988352)
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Loqi [bridgy] Micah Wittman favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/krynsky/status/587104639301988352)
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aaronpk that's a great post
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Loqi [bridgy] ChrisAldrich favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/t/status/587095693648535552)
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Loqi [bridgy] ChrisAldrich favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/t/status/587095693648535552)
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Loqi [bridgy] Mark Krynsky favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/t/status/587095693648535552)
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Loqi [bridgy] ChrisAldrich retweeted a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/ChrisAldrich/status/587105574875037697)
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Loqi [bridgy] ChrisAldrich retweeted a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/ChrisAldrich/status/587105574875037697)
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kylewm unggh, Google's API won't let me use local.dev in a redirect URI
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aaronpk hahaha
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kylewm they accept literally anything other than *.dev
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aaronpk i noticed that
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aaronpk that's why my local copy of indieauth.com is called indieauth.cc
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kylewm huh, ok i will follow that convention :)
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aaronpk oh hm that's a real TLD... what's the cheapest one? I should just register it and set the DNS to 127.0.0.1
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aaronpk indieauth.biz?
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kylewm it's kinda weird, given they own .dev
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aaronpk .us?
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aaronpk oh right....
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kylewm .im is usually really cheap
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aaronpk http://sealedabstract.com/rants/google-our-patron-saint-of-the-closed-web/
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aaronpk but the concept of registering new TLDs is more recent than them disallowing .dev as a redirect URI I think
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aaronpk .ninja is $2.88/year
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kylewm they should pay you to use .ninja
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aaronpk .work!
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aaronpk omg there are so many new TLDs than when I last looked for a domain
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aaronpk oh wait
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aaronpk there is an easier solution to this
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aaronpk local.indieauth.com
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aaronpk in ~2hrs that will resolve to 127.0.0.1
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kylewm good idea
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aaronpk adding "local." as a prefix to any dev domain should be pretty safe
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aaronpk or "dev." works just as well
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aaronpk i still can't believe google bought .dev for *internal only* use
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kylewm welp, just got dumped to a Google Form for requesting access to the Blogger API
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aaronpk lol damn
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kylewm so that's the state of blogger :p
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Loqi hehe
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aaronpk applying for comment access on instagram was also a google form
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aaronpk although it took emailing a contact at facebook/instagram to get a response ;)
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kylewm i found a reference to a dude saying "i manually run the job to approve new signups every couple of days"
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aaronpk oh man
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aaronpk link?
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kylewm https://groups.google.com/d/msg/bloggerdev/x8kqgXoWJvA/6_RyPwSKEHMJ
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aaronpk oh man
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aaronpk i like the last comment, over 2 years after the one before... "it says it takes 5 days to be approved and it's been more than 5 days"
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aaronpk not a good sign
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kylewm no
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kylewm Bridgy uses an older version of the API that I don't think has to go through this, so I may resort to that
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aaronpk jeez
mhoran_, voxpelli_, hugoroyd_, jancborchardt__, dorian_ and snarfed joined the channel
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Loqi [bridgy] Renoir Boulanger favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/t/status/587095693648535552)
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Loqi [bridgy] Renoir Boulanger favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/t/status/587095693648535552)
halorgium_ and reidab_ joined the channel
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Loqi [bridgy] Alex Popescu favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/t/status/587095693648535552)
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Loqi [bridgy] Alex Popescu favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/t/status/587095693648535552)
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hmans Good morning, Indieweb
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@kevinmarks RT @krynsky: Never forget MT @t Yesterday FriendFeed shutdown http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed invented "Like" in 2007 http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed before … (twitter.com/_/status/587157092936462336)
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Loqi [bridgy] Kevin Marks retweeted a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/587157092936462336)
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Loqi [bridgy] Kevin Marks retweeted a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/587157092936462336)
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KevinMarks__ Over hosted things on both appengine and heroku
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KevinMarks__ s/Over/I've/
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Loqi KevinMarks__ meant to say: I've hosted things on both appengine and heroku
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KevinMarks__ Heroku makes you deploy via git,which is good
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KevinMarks__ Appengine gives you Google login and good datastore abstraction
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KevinMarks__ Node and Ruby fit heroku well
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KevinMarks__ Python and Go fit appengine well
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KevinMarks__ Java and PHP I haven't tried on either
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KevinMarks__ But they feel reluctantly supported
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@pcosdeaf RT @krynsky: Never forget MT @t Yesterday FriendFeed shutdown http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed invented "Like" in 2007 http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed before … (twitter.com/_/status/587159786514354176)
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KevinMarks__ An indieweb drop in replacement for appengine's user api
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wwelves.org perpetual-tripper edited /Micropub (+351) "/* HTTP Header */ ISSUE: micropub not in IANA registry -> use full URI" (view diff)
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KevinMarks__ That would be good
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Loqi [bridgy] Rebecca Cottrell favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/t/status/587095693648535552)
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Loqi [bridgy] Rebecca Cottrell favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/t/status/587095693648535552)
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@RyanMachara http://indiewebcamp.com/like http://indiewebcamp.com/like (twitter.com/_/status/587162058237411328)
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Loqi [bridgy] PCOS Deaf retweeted a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/pcosdeaf/status/587159786514354176)
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Loqi [bridgy] PCOS Deaf retweeted a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/pcosdeaf/status/587159786514354176)
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Loqi [bridgy] testbeta favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/krynsky/status/587104639301988352)
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Loqi [bridgy] testbeta favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/krynsky/status/587104639301988352)
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Loqi [bridgy] Koray Al favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/t/status/587095693648535552)
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Loqi [bridgy] Koray Al favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/t/status/587095693648535552)
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Loqi [bridgy] testbeta favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/t/status/587095693648535552)
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Loqi [bridgy] Tristan Bailey retweeted a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/tristanbailey/status/587172920692240384)
loic_m, KevinMarks, KevinMarks__, squeakytoy and catsup joined the channel
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Loqi [bridgy] Luis Mauricio favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/krynsky/status/587104639301988352)
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Loqi [bridgy] Luis Mauricio favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/krynsky/status/587104639301988352)
fkooman_, fkooman and elima joined the channel
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@thierrymarianne RT @t: Yesterday FriendFeed shutdown http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed invented "Like" in 2007 http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed before FB in 2009. (ttk.me t4ab1) (twitter.com/_/status/587203189851717632)
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Loqi [bridgy] Thierry Marianne favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/t/status/587095693648535552)
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Loqi [bridgy] Thierry Marianne favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/t/status/587095693648535552)
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Loqi [bridgy] Thierry Marianne retweeted a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/thierrymarianne/status/587203189851717632)
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Loqi [bridgy] Thierry Marianne retweeted a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/thierrymarianne/status/587203189851717632)
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Loqi [bridgy] Renaud Euvrard favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/t/status/587095693648535552)
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Loqi [bridgy] Renaud Euvrard favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/t/status/587095693648535552)
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@khosrow RT @krynsky: Never forget MT @t Yesterday FriendFeed shutdown http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed invented "Like" in 2007 http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed before … (twitter.com/_/status/587221289892503552)
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Loqi [bridgy] Khosrow Ebrahimpour retweeted a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/khosrow/status/587221289892503552)
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Loqi [bridgy] Khosrow Ebrahimpour retweeted a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/khosrow/status/587221289892503552)
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frzn hey guys, when leaving a social network, what you do to keep the contacts?
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frzn I started to develop a solution to hold all my contact info and friends in a private server/app. I think this is what keeps me most from leaving these silos.
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pdurbin frzn: not exactly a social network but I organize my kids' friends into a YAML file: https://github.com/pdurbin/scripts/blob/master/playdates
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aaronpk pdurbin: that sounds exactly like a social network ;-)
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pdurbin being stupid, I keep it simple :)
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aaronpk I mean a literal social network
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@rianmurnen RT @t: Yesterday FriendFeed shutdown http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed invented "Like" in 2007 http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed before FB in 2009. (ttk.me t4ab1) (twitter.com/_/status/587255961028399107)
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Loqi [bridgy] Rian Murnen retweeted a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/rianmurnen/status/587255961028399107)
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Loqi [bridgy] Rian Murnen retweeted a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/rianmurnen/status/587255961028399107)
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@paulsilver RT @t: Yesterday FriendFeed shutdown http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed invented "Like" in 2007 http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed before FB in 2009. (ttk.me t4ab1) (twitter.com/_/status/587262221698367489)
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@mattround RT @t: Yesterday FriendFeed shutdown http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed invented "Like" in 2007 http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed before FB in 2009. (ttk.me t4ab1) (twitter.com/_/status/587262952895553536)
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Loqi [bridgy] Paul Silver retweeted a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/paulsilver/status/587262221698367489)
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Loqi [bridgy] Paul Silver retweeted a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/paulsilver/status/587262221698367489)
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Loqi [bridgy] Matt Round retweeted a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/mattround/status/587262952895553536)
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Loqi [bridgy] Matt Round retweeted a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/mattround/status/587262952895553536)
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Loqi [bridgy] Robin Taylor favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/t/status/587095693648535552)
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Loqi [bridgy] Robin Taylor favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/t/status/587095693648535552)
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kylewm.com created /Fever_Dream (+360) "create a stub in case Blogger API reviewers actually check that the project homepage exists." (view diff)
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@BillSeitz RT @krynsky: Never forget MT @t Yesterday FriendFeed shutdown http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed invented "Like" in 2007 http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed before … (twitter.com/_/status/587272565367840768)
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Loqi [bridgy] Bill Seitz retweeted a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/BillSeitz/status/587272565367840768)
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Loqi [bridgy] Bill Seitz retweeted a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/BillSeitz/status/587272565367840768)
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@MicropubInfo Archives: Micropub - IndieWebCamp http://buff.ly/1HL4uSqIn "Shared". tinybitchtapes http://buff.ly/1OAwlqpIn "... https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=https://davemenninger.wordpress.com/2015/04/10/micropub-httpbuff-ly1nmera4/&ct=ga&cd=CAIyHDNlNjg4ODQzODIxNzA0ZmU6Y28udWs6ZW46R0I&usg=AFQjCNEonOZFuhQmmXuzScwib3UgWz8ivw&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (twitter.com/_/status/587283706982768640)
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@whataboutbob RT @krynsky: Never forget MT @t Yesterday FriendFeed shutdown http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed invented "Like" in 2007 http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed before … (twitter.com/_/status/587284714723024896)
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Loqi [bridgy] Bob Ngü retweeted a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/whataboutbob/status/587284714723024896)
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Loqi [bridgy] Bob Ngü retweeted a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#FriendFeed (https://twitter.com/whataboutbob/status/587284714723024896)
loic_m and KevinMarks joined the channel
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@wirresnet webmention-test (plz ignore or read anyways): http://wirres.net/article/articleview/7573/1/6/ (twitter.com/_/status/587296804821164032)
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KevinMarks When sharing links with utm_source etc in, should we change them to say indieweb?
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KevinMarks https://support.google.com/analytics/answer/1033867?hl=en
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@dariusdunlap Sunday morning hacking… Setting up Micropub and other Indieweb stuff on my new WordPress… https://darius.dunlaps.net/ (twitter.com/_/status/587300908892979201)
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@dshanske @dariusdunlap If you need any help, stop by the Indieweb IRC room. (twitter.com/_/status/587305892820996097)
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Loqi [mention] https://www.tuxed.net/fkooman/blog/indiecert.html linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://www.tuxed.net/fkooman/blog/indiecert.html linked to https://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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fkooman hmmm what did I do...
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dariusdunlap Yo. Hackin’ at Indieweb stuff on my wordpress blog this morning.
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dariusdunlap Had it all working a while back, but when I moved to my new DigitalOcean droplet server, I broke some stuff.
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dariusdunlap I think part of my “problem” is that I moved my main blog from dunlaps.net/darius to darius.dunlaps.net
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dariusdunlap And maybe another contributor to problems is that I set everything up as a “blog network” (Wordpress MU, like on wordpress.org) with multiple blogs running off the same instance of wordpress.
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dariusdunlap Ive got a few things sorted, but now I’m trying to make some posting work, and I’m getting some strange errors. Then I notice that my wordpress is showing http://darius.dunlaps.net, instead of https://… and I’m getting the redirect is breaking some things,
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GWG dariusdunlap: There is an article on how to change your site URL for WordPress in the codex
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dariusdunlap such as posting from my wordpress app on my iphone
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GWG You should be able to add a plugin to rewrite all references in the Database.
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Loqi yea
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dariusdunlap Yeah, I was looking at that, but there seemed to be some conflicting info.
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GWG dariusdunlap: At the least, the General Settings page should allow you to change the URL to the https version
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GWG dariusdunlap: Which part?
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dariusdunlap just multiple plugins, and then other forum posts tht imply that you can just change the URL in the general settings.
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dariusdunlap which you can’t… at least not in my wordpress…
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dariusdunlap neither the “network” admin dashboard, nor the site-specific admin panels allow that. As far as I’ve found so far.
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dariusdunlap Nginx redirects everything to https:, but some stuff breaks.
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dariusdunlap looking at the plugins now. Some are a few years old without updates.
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GWG I haven't done much with MU in a while. I switched to single site to avoid some issus.
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GWG dariusdunlap: Which plugins?
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dariusdunlap https://wordpress.org/support/plugin/wordpress-https has a warning pop up… not updated in more than two years…
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GWG dariusdunlap: That's why I switched to doing it with Nginx.
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dariusdunlap Yeah, I’ve got it setup in nginx, so everything DOES go to https, but some things still mess up… It seems that things that use wordpress.com account connection info get http://darius.dunlaps.net from there.
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dariusdunlap Ah, found something in codex that looks promising. It says to edit the wp-config.php — that’s easy enough. Let’s see if it works!
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GWG That you may have to log into wordpress.com to fix.
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dariusdunlap GWG: I’ve looked there and not found how to do that.
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dariusdunlap oh, crap. “Alert! These directions are for single installs of WordPress only. If you are using WordPress MultiSite, you will need to manually edit your database.”
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dariusdunlap What a PITA
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GWG Darn
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dariusdunlap It’s alright, I needed to update my ubuntu and other stuff, anyway. Just gotta grind through.
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GWG dariusdunlap: Can I ask a favor?
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dariusdunlap sure ting
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GWG I wrote some Indieweb plugins.
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GWG If you decide to install any, tell me how they work with MU
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dariusdunlap which ones are yours? I may already be using them
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dariusdunlap (sorry, got my head in nginx and phpmyadmin at the moment, so I’m not looking at wordpress panels
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GWG Indieweb Post Kinds, Syndication Links, recently Simple Location in the repository. Also, while I'm not the developer, I have contributed to the Indieweb Plugin, Semantic Linkbacks, Micropub, and the Webmention Plugin.
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dariusdunlap Yep. Got Indieweb post kinds, Syndocation links,
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dariusdunlap Syndication links does not seem to be working, but I think that may be because I was using jetpack for POSSE.
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dariusdunlap Sounds like I need to switch to Social, is that true?
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GWG dariusdunlap: I've never tried to integrate Jetpack for POSSE. You are welcome to file an issue on Github and I can look to see if it is possible.
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GWG dariusdunlap: But it will still work if you put in the POSSE links manually.
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@anomalily Folks, remember the most important thing: Hilary is #indieweb. She runs her own email server. (twitter.com/_/status/587340246125301762)
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dariusdunlap I’m not sure I follow hte purpose of the syndication links here. For example, my post earlier today got to twitter, and your twitter responce came back into my comment stream (via Brid.gy) just fine.
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dariusdunlap See https://darius.dunlaps.net/2015/04/12/1328/#comments
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dariusdunlap BTW, it looks like I got the https fixed in my wordpress config. Had to edit wp_options/siteurl and wp_options/home in the MySQL database. (I had already setup Nginx to redirect everything to https)
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@kevinmarks RT @anomalily: Folks, remember the most important thing: Hilary is #indieweb. She runs her own email server. (twitter.com/_/status/587343100311252993)
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@bobthomson70 RT @anomalily: Folks, remember the most important thing: Hilary is #indieweb. She runs her own email server. (twitter.com/_/status/587343233191141376)
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@thatmikeflynn RT @anomalily: Folks, remember the most important thing: Hilary is #indieweb. She runs her own email server. (twitter.com/_/status/587343235846123520)
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GWG dariusdunlap: It just adds those links. It also adds in Post Discovery.
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@lizbon RT @anomalily: Folks, remember the most important thing: Hilary is #indieweb. She runs her own email server. (twitter.com/_/status/587343813338771456)
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@szarka RT @anomalily: Folks, remember the most important thing: Hilary is #indieweb. She runs her own email server. (twitter.com/_/status/587344646549983232)
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@pcosdeaf RT @anomalily: Folks, remember the most important thing: Hilary is #indieweb. She runs her own email server. (twitter.com/_/status/587346506035826689)
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@joshuajuran RT @anomalily: Folks, remember the most important thing: Hilary is #indieweb. She runs her own email server. (twitter.com/_/status/587348793206689792)
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rhiaro !tell tantek: I wrote about my evolving understanding of the implicit vs explicit types debate: http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/04/post-and-activity-types
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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aaronpk rhiaro: I found your todo citation for you
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aaronpk found by google search: aaronpk regret site:indiewebcamp.com/irc
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rhiaro ooh thanks
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GWG I keep getting the impression that if Indiewebcamp is a camp, then tantek is the camp counselor.
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aaronpk which led me to the last time I was looking for that citation
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rhiaro I tried various searches, not regret though, hah
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-11-10/line/1415642467563
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aaronpk which points to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-10-30#t1414695058382
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rhiaro aaronpk: hmm I'm sure there was something more recent about OO
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rhiaro that's what I was trying to think of
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aaronpk oh hmm that may have been in the off-topic channel
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rhiaro ah
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rhiaro I wasn't sure
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rhiaro felt on-topic
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aaronpk borderline :)
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rhiaro aha it was, found it
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rhiaro guess I can't cite then
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aaronpk is the discussion I linked you to not relevant?
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rhiaro It is, but I think I already covered it in the URL section
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aaronpk ah I see.. internal architecture vs URL desig
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aaronpk n
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aaronparecki.com edited /Micropub (+309) "/* See Also */ issues on github" (view diff)
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@thelibstyles create, break, fix & learn. #posse http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE #indieweb @ALIANational (twitter.com/_/status/587366559489765376)
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@thelibstyles The #indieweb some ideas for a crazy fun web http://dangillmor.com/2014/04/25/indie-web-important/ @ALIANational (twitter.com/_/status/587367005293940736)
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@kevinmarks "@cdixon: 6/ but eventually the pendulum will swing back as the closed services atrophy & entrepreneurs & developers go elsewhere" #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/587375544221614080)
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bengo https://remotestorage.io/
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bengo " This draft describes a protocol by which client-side applications,
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bengo running inside a web browser, can communicate with a data storage
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bengo server that is hosted on a different domain name. This way, the
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bengo provider of a web application need not also play the role of data
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bengo storage provider. The protocol supports storing, retrieving, and
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bengo removing individual documents, as well as listing the contents of an
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bengo individual folder, and access control is based on bearer tokens."
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bengo http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dejong-remotestorage-04
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kylewm snarfed: i have a question about your micropub for hosted blogs draft .... specifically "The endpoint should identify the silo and domain, e.g. /tumblr/mysite.com" ... is there a reason not to have everyone use the same endpoint (e.g. /micropub)?
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snarfed kylewm: when a request comes in, how would you know who it's for?
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snarfed the tokens.indieauth.com response?
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snarfed (which reminds me that i accidentally omitted token verification from the draft :P)
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kylewm ah yes that, I was actually thinking about generating my own keys and just sticking whatever information i want in there
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kylewm s /keys/tokens
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snarfed ah ok sure
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snarfed so you'd have a unique token endpoint for each user but the same micropub endpoint?
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snarfed or does the token request already include the user's domain?
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kylewm i think the token request has a me= parameter too
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kylewm i like the idea of using tokens.indieauth.com though, i hadn't remembered that it gives you the identity information
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kylewm and just wanted to double check i wasn't missing anything by changing the micropub endpoint
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snarfed sure, that all sgtm
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kylewm thanks!
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snarfed kylewm: related note, i wonder if there are cases where the domain they indieauth with is different than their blog's domain, and whether in any of those cases the translation isn't obvious
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snarfed i dunno, maybe just fud
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snarfed bridgy both stores the user's domains the (blog) silo tells it about, and does a couple simple silo lookups of domains and post urls, so you should be fine
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kylewm i was already worried about that :)
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kylewm one of the apis returns both "unmapped_url" and "url"
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kylewm good to know that it's not been a big issue for bridgy
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snarfed bridgy still has warts around it but mostly works
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snarfed feel free to steal code obviously, all public domain
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kylewm oh hey, did you have to do anything special to get Blogger API access?
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kylewm i put my info into a Google Form yesterday, waiting for someone to manually approve it i guess
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snarfed i don't think i needed it for the v2 api?
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snarfed i saw your msgs the other day, whee :P
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kylewm snarfed: so if they've indieauth with epeusepigone.com and their blogspot api account is epeus.blogspot.com, I *think* the blogger api is the only trustworthy source that can tell me that those two refer to the same site
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snarfed kylewm: maybe yeah
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snarfed not rel-me or redirects
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kylewm this is all making me feel a little dumb
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snarfed well maybe bidirectional rel-me?
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snarfed eh that only says same owner, not same site
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snarfed lol. punt on all this then! get the simple case(s) working first
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kylewm I'm just trying really hard to avoid doing someting dumb where anyone with indieauth an post to anyone who has given publishing privilege
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kylewm :)
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Loqi slack/snarfed: heh true
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Loqi slack/snarfed: simple first step is require exact match btw indieauth domain and blog domain
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aaronpk are you trying to avoid registration or something?
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aaronpk I don't see why this is complicated
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kylewm aaronpk: only the epeus.com -> epeus.blogspot.com case is (potentially) complicated
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Loqi slack/snarfed: aaronpk: also, in case the context is missing, he's not just making a client, he's making <https://snarfed.org/micropub-for-hosted-blogs>
KevinMarks joined the channel
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Loqi [mention] https://darius.dunlaps.net/2015/04/12/back-to-the-hack/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://darius.dunlaps.net/2015/04/12/back-to-the-hack/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (webmention)