#indiewebcamp 2015-04-19

2015-04-19 UTC
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acegiak kylewm: did you just get an update webmention from mr on https://kylewm.com/2015/04/whoever-coded-this-facebook-feature-i-hope-they-died ?
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GWG Hello, acegiak
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acegiak kylewm: i just want to know cause my plugin now SHOULD be sending update webmentions when i approve comments
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acegiak GWG hi!
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GWG acegiak: Which plugin is that?
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KevinMarks__ Did you WordPress fans see feverdream?
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GWG KevinMarks__: It's for WordPress.com. We're WordPress.org
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acegiak what is feverdream?
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Loqi Feverdream is the codename of an in-development Micropub endpoint for hosted blogs like Tumblr, WordPress.com, and Blogger https://indiewebcamp.com/Feverdream
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KevinMarks__ So the challenge of getting mf2 in is still there
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GWG KevinMarks__: The first step is to get it into WordPress core.
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GWG Then it will flow downward. MF1 is all over the place because of that
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KevinMarks__ Definitely
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KevinMarks__ Also in blogger
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KevinMarks__ Thinking about feverdream - if we can auth against tumblr, blogger, and wp.com,they could be indieauth targets too
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tantek KevinMarks: do they have rel=me supporting "Web Site" fields you can use to link back to your personal site?
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GWG wp.com wouldn't have plugins per se, but it would have core...so it would have something that could work for rel=me.
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kylewm acegiak: I got a webmention from you 45 minutes ago, so yes i think so
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kylewm KevinMarks__: feverdream could also implement its own authorization_endpoint that would auth with wordpress.com, etc. directly
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tantek GWG - the core WP has had rel=me links since v1.5
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tantek they might be buried under layers of UI by now, but they should still be there
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GWG tantek: Either way, doing rel=me is relatively easy without any extension.
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tantek.com edited /rel-me (+89) "add stub How to on WordPress" (view diff)
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tantek GWG, hmm - if it is "relatively easy", could you document it here? https://indiewebcamp.com/rel-me#How_to_on_WordPress
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david.shanske.com edited /rel-me (+263) "/* How to on WordPress */" (view diff)
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aaronpk KevinMarks__: did you ever talk to that guy about transferring mynameisme.org?
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KevinMarks__ Yes, she said she was following the hover process, but she's travelling
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aaronpk ool
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aaronpk cool*
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@GlobalRevLive keep in mind services like twitter are still corporate info silos. consider IndieWebCamp https://indiewebcamp.com/ for alternatives @taygogo (twitter.com/_/status/589610872756162560)
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@t_post7 RT @GlobalRevLive: keep in mind services like twitter are still corporate info silos. consider IndieWebCamp https://indiewebcamp.com/ for alt… (twitter.com/_/status/589611081322008576)
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@taygogo RT @GlobalRevLive: keep in mind services like twitter are still corporate info silos. consider IndieWebCamp https://indiewebcamp.com/ for alt… (twitter.com/_/status/589611127887122432)
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@crimsonboudoir RT @GlobalRevLive: keep in mind services like twitter are still corporate info silos. consider IndieWebCamp https://indiewebcamp.com/ for alt… (twitter.com/_/status/589614436001980417)
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@Nart0925 RT @GlobalRevLive: keep in mind services like twitter are still corporate info silos. consider IndieWebCamp https://indiewebcamp.com/ for alt… (twitter.com/_/status/589619761056649216)
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bret !tell squeakytoy hackers
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@MagicEventDeals Most hotel rooms for IndieWebCamp Germany 2015 #indieweb are sold out already. Book yours today! http:///TrafficInspection.aspx?requestId=5c0363cd-aaa8-4d4e-abeb-ce958f47fe57&requestUrl=%2fPlace%2fDusseldorf.htm (twitter.com/_/status/589698997306044417)
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GWG I need to figure out how to make this post UI work better. I need ideas
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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indie-visitor vivek pathak
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indie-visitor hi everyone i need help to verify my wordpress self hosted blog
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tantek GWG ^^^
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tantek aaronpk, others, what would you think of doing IWC 2015 in July?
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tantek I realize Edinburgh is then too
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tantek but maybe like 2 weeks beforehand?
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tantek.com edited /2015/ (-2) "note Ediburgh dates determined" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2015 (+458) "/* Candidate Dates */ add a few July dates" (view diff)
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tantek !tell aaronpk, gRegorLove I added July candidate dates for IWC 2015 - please take a look at add your availability! https://indiewebcamp.com/2015#Candidate_Dates
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG Tantek, I missed the WordPress person, darn
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tantek hopefully they'll be back
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GWG I can only do one trip, but PDX might be doable over EDI
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tantek.com edited /2015/ (+34) "note Germany and Edinburgh are planned, re-arrange a bit" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /next-iwc (-2) "Germany is next!" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+4) "Düsseldorf" (view diff)
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GWG Trying to figure out parsing still. I think I got open graph meta tags, still working on mf2. What other way do people extract author name and such?
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GWG I want to use mf2 as the primary, but too many sites don't have microformats. Especially news sites, which is often what I bookmark
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tantek GWG, this is why I asked you what presentation are you going for
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tantek if you can describe that in pieces (rather than just saying "basic" or "simple") then we can figure out where to get the data from
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tantek e.g. "What other way do people extract author name?" that's what the /authorship algorithm solves for you
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GWG Tantek, right now I am exploring the scenario of no hcard. I tried starting microformats down, but I switched to meta tags up.
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tantek GWG - no that's not "right", that's plumbing-centric explorations
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tantek I'm trying to up level it a bit, and go back to describing what presentation you are building for.
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GWG It isn't right, I agree
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tantek what do you want it to look like on your site?
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tantek before you can figure out plumbing answers, you need to answer that
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GWG I am currently displaying using a name, publication, author name /picture and summary
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GWG I have the display. Because I built it based on manual entry
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GWG So, to use an analogy I have my sink, I want to hook up the hot water line
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tantek can you write-up briefly what you just described as displaying in a new section here? https://indiewebcamp.com/link-preview#brainstorming
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GWG Right now I am hauling water in a bucket from the well
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GWG Tantek, yes.
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tantek manual vs. (semi)automatic - I get that
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tantek part of the goal here is to figure out what would be the minimum viable design that would work for you
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tantek and then to build up from there
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tantek e.g. as a strawman example: the simplest link preview is just the URL, or the URL plus <title> attribute
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GWG Which is where I started
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tantek link-preview display is similar in this respect to reply-context display, e.g. https://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context#Levels
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GWG Tantek, I built them using the same design
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tantek they have some overlap but they are quite different
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tantek just as a reply is different from a mention
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tantek GWG, note how much documentation / thinking is captured in https://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context#Levels - let's capture similar things at https://indiewebcamp.com/link-preview#brainstorming
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GWG Tantek, I am just noticing that many sites don't seem to identify the author name on articles in a clear manner. I wonder why.
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tantek because they care less about recognizing the author
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GWG Disappointing
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tantek another place to check, ironically, is to see if there is a /feedfile e.g. RSS/Atom for the current page which may actually have explicit author markup because their backend dev went to the trouble
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tantek that is, as a fallback, for sites that don't otherwise identify the author
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tantek (or sometimes even the date published!)
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voxpelli GWG: looking at what other sites do, they rarely identify the author in their link-previews, right?
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tantek voxpelli: excellent point
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voxpelli And looking at what Google did when they promoted rel-author – they said to either use rel-author to identify a person or rel-publisher to identify a business/publication
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voxpelli Facebook has a way to identify a "publisher" as well, a FB Page, but that data is as far as I know fully proprietary and impossible for anyone outside Facebook to make sense of
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voxpelli GWG: http://embed.ly/ can perhaps be a good inspiration – they focus on making link previews for everything
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voxpelli they even have a jQuery-script if one wants to easily start out with their data before pulling down ones own: http://embedly.github.io/embedly-jquery/
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voxpelli (nice touch from Embed.ly – they seems to extract a brand color from the favicon and use that to "brand" the embed)
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tantek that's pretty neat
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GWG voxpelli: That is what made me start looking at it. Sometimes, I am not articulating my thoughts effectively.
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GWG As someone who studied Knowledge Organization, this bothers me.
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voxpelli GWG: I agree with you that it's far too few sites that identifies authorship and even fewer that actually has a proper way to verify authorship
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voxpelli To me there's to steps to it: 1. Identify the author, possibly through rel-author, and then 2. Verify that the linked to profile is actually the correct one, by somehow using rel-me
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voxpelli Stumbled upon this old video from Google where they talked a bit about that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgFb6Y-UJUI&list=FLUB3JD26qjifpAnXzn-MdRQ&index=1
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voxpelli Problem is that I can post a lot of posts on my site, claiming that someone else has written them, and while that may not be a critical problem for link-previews, it certainly is in the grander scheme of things where it should really tie into the rel-me-auth ideas
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GWG voxpelli: Let's say I write for multiple sites, I may want authorship to link to me. But unless I cross-post, I can't necessarily have that. And there is no cross-post verification procedure.
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voxpelli It's a tricky thing to solve – ideally all identities should be linked together and the articles should be able to properly be linked in to that
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GWG voxpelli: Not prepared to solve it today. But I wanted to think about it a bit as I work on webactions, my current top project. Which will involve adapting some of your code as well at some point.
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tantek voxpelli: perhaps that's were we can show an indieweb version of "verified" - for authors / authorship that is verified by rel-me-auth etc.
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voxpelli tantek: yep – I'm thinking: article -> profile-on-article-site <-> indieweb-profile
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tantek sounds like a good start - want to write it up as a brainstorm?
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tantek what is verified?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "verified" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=verified&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-04-19%2Fline%2F1429469579821
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voxpelli sure
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voxpelli what is identity?
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Loqi A personal domain is a domain name that you personally own, control, and use to represent yourself on the internet https://indiewebcamp.com/identity
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voxpelli Loqi beats the wiki-search :P
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Loqi grins profusely
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kodfabrik.se created /verified (+1854) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-19/line/1429469579821" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks @nrrrdcore sounds like a css version of http://indiewebcamp.com (twitter.com/_/status/589875534668005376)
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GWG Ooops...IRC wasn't advancing.
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GWG Missed stuff
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kodfabrik.se created /social_graph (+1585) "Created page with "{{stub}} The '''<dfn>social graph</dfn>''' is a graph that indexes all the profiles and identities and the relations in-between them. Was popularized by Google's now defunct Soc..."" (view diff)
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voxpelli what is social graph?
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Loqi The social graph is a graph that indexes all the profiles and identities and the relations in-between them https://indiewebcamp.com/social_graph
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voxpelli Nice :)
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aaronpk rhiaro: heads up, you may notice some (hopefuly good) changes in teacup next time you use it!
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 3 hours, 20 minutes ago: I added July candidate dates for IWC 2015 - please take a look at add your availability! https://indiewebcamp.com/2015#Candidate_Dates http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-19/line/1429462403859
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aaronparecki.com edited /2015 (+270) "/* Candidate Dates */" (view diff)
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kodfabrik.se edited /social_graph (+120) "Documented the origin of relspider" (view diff)
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voxpelli !tell KevinMarks, glennjones I added a wiki page about the social graph, could you check and extend? https://indiewebcamp.com/social_graph
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek aaronpk: great to hear that 7/11-12 works for your
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tantek s/your/you
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Loqi tantek meant to say: aaronpk: great to hear that 7/11-12 works for you
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kodfabrik.se edited /social_graph (+15) "Added more visible link to verified page" (view diff)
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kodfabrik.se edited /social_graph (+4) "/* Implementations */ Wiki-styling !== Markdown" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /verified (+361) "Twitter" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /verified (+24) "linky" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /verified (-2) "-=" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Twitter (+40) "feature / verified" (view diff)
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kylewm so I added Subscription tagging to woodwind, so you can organize your feeds (like I wanted one for just podcasts)
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kylewm I'm wondering if it makes sense to add a "stream" tag that everything would have by default
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kylewm and then the primary view would be of subscriptions tagged "stream"
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aaronpk that sounds like what I did with "channels"
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voxpelli kylewm: probably better to have an option of excluding tags from the stream
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tantek or "newsfeed" :P
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voxpelli (not considering that excluding stuff based on tags often is much harder than including stuff based on tags – at least when using SQL and such)
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kylewm voxpelli: ah i like that, that might be easier to manage
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kylewm tantek: newsfeed is a better name :)
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tantek anyone else have opinions about July 11-12th for IndieWebCamp 2015? especiall you Portland folks, bret, dietrich?
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GWG I have one
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GWG PDX or EDI?
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tantek what is EDI?
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GWG One is Scotland...the other I'd get to see the famous PDX carpet
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "EDI" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=EDI&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-04-19%2Fline%2F1429478212184
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GWG EDI is the airport code for Edinburgh, Scotland
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loqi.me created /EDI (+74) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-19/line/1429478212184 and dfn added by GWG" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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GWG If you could only visit one Indiewebcamp this July...
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tantek !tell benwerd what do you think of IWC 2015 July 11-12 in Portland? Would you be able to make that?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG I always abbreviate by three-letter airport codes
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tantek and TLAs ending in I looking like something something Institute
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tantek aaronpk: are there any festivals or any other big / special events happening in Portland near July 11-12?
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dietrich tantek bret I'll be one day back from a long trip to asia, so i'm a dice roll.
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aaronpk nothing on calagator
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tantek cool - how's the prospect of venue? ESRIPDX work?
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aaronpk yeah we should be able to do it there again
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tantek dietrich - glad to hear you'll be back, understandable about the dice roll. Hopefully we can talk you into stopping by
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dietrich yeah i just put in the calendar, def will try!
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tantek aaronpk: a-ha found something: WDS 2015 is 7/9-13 http://www.eventbrite.com/e/world-domination-summit-2015-tickets-11972015621
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tantek not a problem for me - however it will be crowded in town
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tantek so if we're doing 7/11-12 we should probably lock it down and get folks a heads-up that are traveling
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dietrich if you guys push it back a couple of weeks... http://calendar.travelportland.com/event/hello_kittys_supercute_friendship_festival
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aaronpk how big is WDS?
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tantek 2013 was 2000, 2012 was 1000, 2011 was 500
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tantek maybe 2000-3000 in 2015?
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aaronpk wow
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aaronpk well that's not huge as far as capacity of portland goes, but i'd be more worried about people who want to go to that not being able to go to IWC
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tantek it lost me when it got too big (2000+)
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tantek we could ask people that came last year to IWC to see if they're doing WDS
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tantek 2014 was 2500 per http://scottberkun.com/2014/notes-from-world-domination-summit-part-1/
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GWG It sounds scary.
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tantek.com edited /social_graph (+76) "tweak definition to be more noun-sounding definition, a instead of the, one site, web, or in-person" (view diff)
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@benwerd Talk of data ownership on #twit. #indieweb is a great solution: publish on your own space, then share to the cloud. (twitter.com/_/status/589920196141264896)
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@jmcclurken RT @benwerd: Talk of data ownership on #twit. #indieweb is a great solution: publish on your own space, then share to the cloud. (twitter.com/_/status/589920309098192896)
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loqi.me created /Wink (+177) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by GWG" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Wink (+61) "linky linky, ISO date, criticism section" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /Home_automation (+123) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by GWG" (view diff)
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