2015-05-13 UTC
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# 00:02 raucao it's quite late, i'm hitting the sack. will gladly join more debugging tomorrow, in case it's needed
# 00:02 kylewm raucao: ok no worries, I think next time you post something it will start working
# 00:02 kylewm and some time after that it will back and refetch the old posts
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# 00:11 Vendan honestly, having thought about it more, I'm not sure that I'm going to switch to file storage
# 00:12 tantek do what's most productive for you to achieve your goals for your personal site
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# 00:56 tantek___ What's the point of such urls with a trailing . After the domain before the slash? Other than being yet another string variant of the same thing?
# 00:57 tantek___ It looks like a typo - your authentic tool should flag it and or autocorrect it.
# 00:57 Loqi tantek___ meant to say: It looks like a typo - your authoring tool should flag it and or autocorrect it.
# 00:57 GWG So, I asked this earlier. Does anyone have a really good example of a photo posting UI?
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# 00:59 tantek____ GWG, IG isn't bad. known's photo posting UI seems good enough for people to use it.
# 01:00 GWG tantek____: I wrote a photo posting UI last night and want to iterate.
# 01:02 GWG I might need to add location before I go on vacation.
# 01:02 tantek____ I think adactio's automatically adds location. To his notes too.
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# 01:03 GWG I need to focus my efforts. I tend to switch between projects
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# 03:48 kylewm oSoftDev is the only game dev i see spamming #indieweb, tbh
# 03:55 acegiak so if I want to use the twitter api to posse a repost with comment of a tweet do I just post a regular status update reply with RT at the start and the comment appended?
# 03:55 GWG acegiak: Writing something to POSSE?
# 03:56 acegiak I want to posse my reposting of a tweet but I don't want it to display natively on twitter without a shorturl of my action of reposting it
# 04:01 kylewm repost with comment is implemented literally as just including the quoted tweet url in your content
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# 04:07 acegiak like, I'm not sure if I'm posseing a repost should I just twitter native retweet?
# 04:07 acegiak I'm worried that appending the shorturl of my repost action might come off as douchey
# 04:07 KartikPrabhu it seems like Twitter doesn't quite do what people want it to do, but they're stuck on it so they hack around; with pictures to get past the char-limit or RT to quote a retweet and all that
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# 04:14 kylewm acegiak: would backfeed from Tumblr make sense if bridgy did it? i ask because it seems like reposts are handled a bit differently there than anywhere else
# 04:15 kylewm like A posts something, B reposts, C reposts B's repost
# 04:15 kylewm then C has a list of comments "original posted by A, reposted by B"
# 04:15 kylewm like, they have all the comments before and after their post
# 04:16 acegiak the problem is that you sometimes end with these blockquote based comment trees
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# 06:38 rhiaro tantek, acegiak: I did indie repost then pasted the URL of that into bridgy publish and it magically became a native retweet
# 06:39 rhiaro Though I don't think I get re-retweets or interactions with the original tweet back, and not sure if I should / want that
# 06:41 KartikPrabhu rhiaro: that is a Twitter silo constraint of not treating reposts as first-class-posts
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# 06:42 KartikPrabhu note G+ considers reposts as actual posts, and so does Tumblr i think
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# 09:52 tantek hmm - just came up with a use-case for auto_embed without auto_link
# 09:52 tantek when you have plain text that is going to go inside a hyperlink already
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# 11:47 rhiaro I'm enjoying my twitter posse shortcut button
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# 12:12 Vendan ugh, and that is the reason I refuse to touch WP anymore
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# 12:25 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 12:26 petermolnar I know, what I didn't know if that was a fix on purpose or just accidental
# 12:26 GWG They didn't check the plugin. I didn't increment the version number
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# 12:29 GWG It was an exploit found in genericons. Not a WordPress issue
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# 12:49 petermolnar everyone just jumps in for shitty questions on woocommerce and no one is open for any potential bug discussions or similar
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# 13:05 raucao next up, fixing that weird incoming-webmentions-from-elsewhere prob that rhiaro also experienced with known
# 13:09 raucao petermolnar: the endpoint is polled but known doesn't save anything
# 13:09 raucao it returns 200s, 202s and in one instance even a 206 though
# 13:10 petermolnar is it a valid webmention? if you manually follow the link, is it working?
# 13:20 raucao i'm pretty sure fkooman and i used valid webmentions
# 13:20 raucao he was implementing them in phubble during iwc
# 13:20 petermolnar when you receive a webmention, that is from a url; what I wanted to ask if you can actually load the url in a browser
# 13:21 raucao petermolnar: yes, we sent them manually with curl
# 13:26 raucao i'll tell fkooman that his entries are broken then
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# 13:34 ben_thatmustbeme that post doesn't have an in-reply-to link, so it would only come across as a mention, not a reply. It also lists you as the author instead of him
# 13:35 GWG petermolnar: What is still missing in Wordpress for Indieweb in your opinion?
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# 13:36 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 13:36 GWG petermolnar: I am rewriting my plugins and looking for enhancements
# 13:37 petermolnar I don't know if we have a plugin that adds additional social network(ish) data to the user profile + the option to auto-add them to the wp_footer() hidden or not for rel=me links
# 13:40 GWG petermolnar: It is a feature in Syndication Links
# 13:42 petermolnar question: what is the indieweb opinion on oembed? I guess it's mostly redundant in case of a proper mf2 setup
# 13:43 GWG Using the same design as the syndication links. A combination of custom fields and a list of unsupported urls.
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# 13:45 GWG Lesson to me. Always bump version numbers
# 13:46 GWG I'd better add a point release before they find Syndication Links
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# 13:56 ben_thatmustbeme !tell aaronpk Why doesn't Loqi fetch content of indieweb posts... he fetches twitter. Feature request.
# 13:56 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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# 14:03 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 14:04 petermolnar ben_thatmustbeme what do you mean by fetching content from indieweb posts? that's mean Loqi should become the next realtime google blog indexer
# 14:05 Loqi petermolnar meant to say: ben_thatmustbeme what do you mean by fetching content from indieweb posts? that means Loqi should become the next realtime google blog indexer
# 14:07 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 14:08 petermolnar by the way, I'm still trying to come up with some kind of indie-explorer; like a search engine that can do thematic suggestions of indieweb posts; I believe this is the one really big thing we're missing
# 14:16 snarfed petermolnar: interesting! personally i can think of a number of other missing parts, e.g. social graph, but agreed, recommendation engine would be fun too
# 14:18 rhiaro Better social graph and querying would be great
# 14:18 petermolnar to have an endpoint which is either pubsub or webmention endpoint, receiving mentions of things that should go into the recommendation engine
# 14:19 petermolnar or to have an endpoint where you can push a registration signal and let the endpoint pull updates from rss or similar
# 14:20 snarfed we've already done many (most?) of the easy-to-decentralize bits
# 14:21 petermolnar also, spam would become and issue pretty fast, I'm quite sure about that
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# 14:21 snarfed posts, replies etc, micropub posse/backfeed, even readers (all easy-ish to decentralize)
# 14:22 snarfed also petermolnar: centralized isn't necessarily a bad thing for services
# 14:22 snarfed especially ones that are nice-to-have but your site and storing data doesn't depend on them
# 14:23 rhiaro Centralized services are fine so long as you can move between options easily
# 14:23 snarfed readers, post uis, posse and backfeed services (e.g. bridgy) are all examples
# 14:23 rhiaro They have to keep you with good service, not by locking you in
# 14:24 snarfed for indieweb services though, the common case isn't potential lock-in but still not quite enough competition/diversity/alternatives
# 14:25 snarfed (for example, i'd love to see another backfeed service that competes w/bridgy!)
# 14:27 rhiaro I'm sure relying on aaronpk for all my indieweb needs is totally fine
# 14:27 snarfed not a big problem though. you know you *could* write your own. teacup etc don't store your data and make it hard to get out
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# 14:46 petermolnar I just realized that the indie-explorer I thought of would more or less be a free fork of superfeedr with suggestions on trackers
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# 16:47 tantek And as a way of handling varying aspect ratios - I'm thinking of setting the height to a fixed em value (like 3-4ems?) and letting the width be proportional, figuring I'm unlikely to like a photo that's too wide to fit at those proportions.
# 16:50 tantek (as usual, any display/presentation feedback/criticism is welcome!)
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# 17:07 snarfed fb's activity log also has decent presentation for liking an album w/multiple pictures
# 17:07 snarfed technically different, since it's not actually collapsing multiple likes, but the presentation itself is good
# 17:08 rhiaro tantek: If I repost your like, I guess that means I like it too?
# 17:14 tantek snarfed - definitely upload a screenshot! more existing design examples the better!
# 17:15 tantek technically I don't think it says you like it but rather
# 17:15 tantek it's you saying, hey look, tantek liked this photo
# 17:16 tantek rhiaro: note that photos posts nearly everywhere have captions/titles/names - and you're still *liking* the photo on those silos / sites
# 17:16 tantek trying to distinguish liking the post vs. liking the image is a waste of time
# 17:17 tantek the UI convention is that like a photo post means you like the photo
# 17:17 rhiaro in that case I've probably liked far too many photos of awful british politicians
# 17:18 rhiaro though sometimes the captions are on the image itself, so that's fine
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# 17:18 tantek rhiaro: your repost is odd - looks like you're picking up the alt from the image?
# 17:18 tantek could be my markup isn't rich enough to pick up the whole thing
# 17:22 KevinMarks Re grids of photos, I think g+ does it the way you say, and pinterest the other way round (fixed width in columns, varying height)
# 17:24 tantek seems like lots of different trade-offs to consider, a ragged right being just one of them
# 17:25 rhiaro the url with u-repost-of is separate in my laout
# 17:25 Loqi rhiaro meant to say: the url with u-repost-of is separate in my layout
# 17:25 rhiaro does it matter if author h-card is in or out of h-cite?
# 17:26 rhiaro I still haven't got my head around when nesting is/n't significant in mf
# 17:26 tantek oh interesting - sure - keep the h-cite separate then
# 17:26 tantek depends what you want the author to apply to :P
# 17:26 tantek properties are inside an object - it's pretty much that simple
# 17:27 tantek KevinMarks: can you upload your screenshots to the wiki?
# 17:27 tantek KevinMarks: is this for generic grid image display? or likes of multiple images in particular?
# 17:27 KevinMarks I'll do that on desktop, on phone now and that is just too much faffing
# 17:27 rhiaro so if the h-card was outside, it would imply it was the author of the page?
# 17:28 tantek if the p-author was outside, it would mean it was the p-author of whatever was the containing h-* object
# 17:28 rhiaro is struggling with two threads of conversation too, maybe I'm not cut out for this 'functioning in society' thing
# 17:28 tantek "p-author h-card" just means this p-author property is also an embedded h-card object itself
# 17:31 rhiaro I should probably go through all my templates once more, then get someone to audit my mf markup
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# 17:33 tantek rhiaro: if you want to "draw" something, just look at the JSON - that basically gives you a tree
# 17:34 Vendan there are multiple mf2 parsers live on the interwebs that you can pass it through
# 17:38 GWG killerog: Did you get my response about Syndication Links?
# 17:39 KevinMarks_ So something between what the json dumps do and what indiewebify.me does?
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# 18:20 tantek KevinMarks: maybe JSON -> SVG pretty diagram?
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# 18:49 rhiaro tantek: btw I get the 'value' of your content rather than the html, which is just "likes [image alt text]"
# 18:50 tantek rhiaro: when you repost something usually you want "the whole thing" whatever that means
# 18:50 tantek rather than just the minimal plain text value
# 18:50 rhiaro yeah but I'm not doing anything to make the html safe at the moment, this is the fallback
# 18:51 rhiaro I don't store the post content myself yet either
# 18:51 rhiaro I'll deal with this if I suddenly start reposting a lot of things
# 18:52 rhiaro btw tantek did you get a webmention for that repost?
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# 18:53 rhiaro except it's a like because I accidentally liked then changed to a repost and didn't send a new mention
# 18:54 rhiaro "I don't necessarily like that, but I like that you liked that"
# 18:54 tantek more than two levels deep and it gets a bit abstract
# 18:54 tantek I could see it go back/forth. you liked my post? I liked your like of my post!
# 18:55 rhiaro yuuup made a 'social network' basically based on this a few years ago
# 18:55 LanceyWork can we repost a like of a like of a reply to a post that mentions a like?
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# 18:59 killerog GWG: yup saw the comment, just didn´t get around to test it yet.
# 19:02 killerog I´d better do it tonight or I´ll break my 2 days streak record on github ;)
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# 19:27 tantek thanks KevinMarks for pointing a professional writer at our wiki. now we have to clean up our writing even more. :P
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# 19:43 tantek TBH there was a lot of SMH at some of the framing/terms. "Syndication Model" [caps in original] - really?
# 19:43 tantek otherstuff was better sentence clustering / ordering
# 19:43 tantek additional reviews (for readability) welcome!
# 19:44 KevinMarks Was just reading. Quotes around IndieWeb unnecessary. Also a bit italic happy
# 19:45 tantek hah right - that was before we were grown up enough to remove the self-deprecating scare quotes
# 19:46 Vendan hrm, question, is there some downside to running your own PuSH hub?
# 19:47 tantek Vendan good FAQ - perhaps add to the PuSH page?
# 19:51 Vendan cause, imho, using a central hub isn't the greatest idea...
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# 19:57 aaronpk As long as there are more than one PuSH hubs there is no such thing as a "central hub"
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# 19:57 aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: that's been on my todo list for quite some time lol
# 19:58 tantek or rather this is a variant of the link-preview problem
# 19:59 tantek internet slow / unreliable, time to make lunch
# 20:00 Vendan they were overcharging us for a while, cause we upgraded to a higher speed plan, but they didn't send us the new modem, so we were still getting the old speed.
# 20:01 Vendan then we got the new modem, and it's a PoS that has just been going up and down
# 20:01 Vendan psuedo-monopolistic ISP that services large portion of the US
# 20:07 Vendan Time Warner Cable is a psuedo-monopolistic ISP that services large portion of the USA.
# 20:08 Vendan and if it wasn't for my znc, you would have seen my bounce in and out twice in the last 5 minutes thanks to them
# 20:10 Vendan fortunately, their router is now set into bridge mode so I don't have to deal with it anymore. And really, what company still puts out hardware with "password" as the admin password?
# 20:10 Vendan is it really that hard to generate a password, print it on a label and tape it to the dang thing?
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# 20:19 kylewm ha, the Comcast router I got a couple weeks ago also had admin/password as the login
# 20:21 killerog I was editing my notes from @sara_ann_marie ´s btconf talk this afternoon, and remembered she said ALA is looking for new writers. So I thought: did anybody suggest/write a post about indieweb on there already?
# 20:23 tantek killerog: ALA badly needs more practical articles
# 20:24 tantek as they've run out of authors to write practical design / dev articles - (some of ) their (ALA) articles have become increasingly out of touch.
# 20:25 killerog true, I´ve not been there for a long time anymore either, but any audience is an audience. And we´re very practical ;)
# 20:25 tantek I'd say go for it - you have plenty of folks here who would be happy to proofread
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# 20:27 killerog ok, will give it a try.
# 20:28 killerog At least that was where I was talking about, maybe tantek thought about something else :)
# 20:36 kylewm know that adactio has been posting one post ~100 words in length everyday?
# 20:37 tantek "You have from now until December 31, 2012 New Year’s Eve"
# 20:39 tantek lololol: "no need for a whole project, or installers, or dockering the node to yeoman the gulp, or whatever it is the cool kids do these days"
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# 20:45 kylewm google doesn't find any results for "dockering the node to yeoman the gulp"
# 20:48 tantek kylewm: are you publishing an h-feed with PuSHv0.4 notifications?
# 20:58 tantek hmm the PuSH page is a bit of a transition mess
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# 21:14 tantek aaronpk how long has your site been sending PuSH 0.4 notifications?
# 21:16 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 21:17 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 21:23 Vendan hrm, considering building a library for golang that's just combined pubsubhubbub publisher and hub, so clients can subscribe and I just push updates to them
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# 21:27 kylewm tantek: note that Known supports PuSH 0.4 too, so that's a whole lot of adoption
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# 21:37 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 21:38 tantek kylewm: do you know when Known 0.7.8 was released?
# 21:40 kylewm that's not quite fair, Known supported 0.4 at times in the past, but it was a little broken and fixed in 0.7.8 (which released May 4th)
# 21:40 tantek ok we can reliably conservatively say at least since May 4th then
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# 21:49 tantek Based on at least 6-7 indieweb community members supporting PuSH 0.4, and possibly 1000s more if you include Withknown and Known installs, I think it's appropriate to add PuSH 0.4 to /IndieMark#syndication
# 21:51 tantek (of course now I'm distracted reading benwerd's excellent thoughtful writing)
# 21:51 benwerd tantek: that's kind :) I've been slow lately but have a very long post in the works
# 21:52 benwerd I on the other hand am distracted reading and raging about Facebook's new "friends" graph API behavior, months after kylewm and snarfed
# 21:53 KevinMarks Ben, did you see the new quill editor and how it works with known?
# 21:57 aaronpk the image thing was kind of a magic happy coincidence
# 21:58 benwerd and Ben did resolve once more to fix the syndication thing.
# 21:59 benwerd But, sadly, after he finished building his terrible thing involving Facebook's messed-up friends API call.
# 21:59 KartikPrabhu KevinMarks is the src="data" in base64 encoding standardized? I was wondering if on recieving a micropub request like that I could decode the image and save it to the filesystem and serve as actual image?
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# 22:03 KartikPrabhu yeah, that might be an editor bug. would be good to conform to usual ways of doing data encoded images
# 22:03 KevinMarks__ wonder if that's why wp didn't like it, or just wp being very fussy about img in general
# 22:07 benwerd kylewm: so frustrating. I'm building an autocomplete field with a user's friends - and that isn't available anymore. And most people, by observation, seem to have the taggable_friends permission disabled.
# 22:09 KartikPrabhu gets the eerie feeling that FB is building towards an Internet.org lock in
# 22:11 kylewm KartikPrabhu: don't be silly, you are not locked in as long as you have the jail_break permission scope, which you can very easily get if you just write up your usecase and submit it to them with screenshots and steps to reproduce
# 22:16 KartikPrabhu yes! and I'm sure they will be nice and say "oh here you go take this scope doodad"
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# 22:20 KartikPrabhu aaronpk: where in the source is it converting to base64? can't find it
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# 22:41 KartikPrabhu aaronpk: interesting the editor UI itself does not add the space to the preview!
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# 22:48 KartikPrabhu aaronpk: i think the space is being added when the data is being sent somehow. is your editor code open?
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# 23:57 kylewm yeah installing Quill on Wordpress would be tricky
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