#indiewebcamp 2015-08-17

2015-08-17 UTC
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aaronpk M-kegan: so I just upgraded to ubuntu 14.04, and running the installer it fails with "mock requires setuptools>=17.1. Aborting installation"
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aaronpk i don't know anythign about python dependencies
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aaronpk considers installing the matrix server in Go
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aaronpk ah I had to upgrade setuptools after upgrading my os
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M-aaronpk oh the "m-" prefix is from the matrix bridge... that is not what I want
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aaronpk !tell M-kegan I couldn't get the matrix-micropub client installed, it says "Error: Cannot find module 'matrix-appservice-micropub'" when I try to run app.js
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek wow how am I just now reading Jeena's post! https://jeena.net/indiewebcamp-2015 such a great empassioned summary.
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Loqi tantek: KevinMarks left you a message 8 hours, 53 minutes ago: that would be the whitespace collapsing rpoblem in http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#whitespace_collapsing_revisited http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-16/line/1439747524221
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tantek !tell KevinMarks, uh, blaming the plumbing for a UI error is itself a deductive error :P
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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uh uh oh
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uh yeah
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Loqi uh: tantek left you a message 21 seconds ago: the plumbing for a UI error is itself a deductive error :P http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-16/line/1439779551581
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blaming and?
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Loqi blaming: tantek left you a message 35 seconds ago: the plumbing for a UI error is itself a deductive error :P http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-16/line/1439779551581
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tantek !tell KevinMarks (speaking of UI errors ;) uh, blaming the plumbing for a UI error is itself a deductive error :P
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@damienjoyce RT @kevinmarks: “Some people say vast confusion like it’s a bad thing.” @jamesgleick on twitter #indieweb http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/08/let-twitter-be-twitter.html#Some%20people%20say%20vast%20confusion%20like%20it%E2%80%99s%20a%20bad%20thing (twitter.com/_/status/633114069419954177)
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tantek got an interesting question yesterday on Twitter and figured the answer might interest some here (haven't shared before)
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tantek https://twitter.com/al3xandru/status/632780487803584512
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@al3xandru @t what format/tools do you use for the personal log? (twitter.com/_/status/632780487803584512)
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tantek note: *personal log* (as in journal), not blog or blogging software etc.
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tantek answer: https://twitter.com/t/status/633117539351011329
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@t @al3xandru 1 .txt file per bim, \n\nYYYY-DDD mm/dd\n day header, optional \nHH:MM timestamp on entries between them. (ttk.me t4ci1) (twitter.com/_/status/633117539351011329)
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@andigalpern Dear @indiewebcamp, if I use Google Analytics on my own domain, do I still fully own my data? (twitter.com/_/status/633136812668485632)
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snarfed mmm trolling
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pokr paying off ICANN for your personal domain , lols
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pokr why not just create viral content on 8ch. who needs an ego to attribute it all back to?
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pokr still wondering why IWC people seem completely wedded to corporate/proprietary/non-indie Twitter/GoogleHangouts stuff
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pokr i think theyre all trollign and work for big lame companies like Mozilla/Google
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pokr or it's like some sort of "for fun" thing. for me it's serious business
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tantek hey pokr - what's your personal site?
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@indiewebcamp @andigalpern "fully"? No. See TOS. GA is a starting point. There are other hosted & OSS options http://indiewebcamp.com/analytics ^@t (twitter.com/_/status/633142242031501313)
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colintedford Do we add microformats to plain pages (ie not a post or an index)? If so, what kind? I don't see a "page" page on the wiki; closest is /wiki-page.
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colintedford I thought I remembered hearing that the wiki's pages were marked up w/ h-entry, but that seems to be not true.
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colintedford Actually, GWG, this is sort of a Wordpress question ^
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tantek colintedford: not WordPress specific, and yes, h-entry is a good simple page-level markup
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tantek "page" page is funny :)
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tantek what is a page?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "page" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/101W
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colintedford tantek: Yeah, I just meant that I'm dealing w/ a WP install & thought he might have dealt w/ it already.
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colintedford tantek: I did feel a little funny searching the wiki for "page" :)
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tantek page is short for webpage on the IndieWeb, and can by default be marked up with h-entry unless it serves amore specific purpose. see also [[permalink]], [[navigation]].
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loqi.me created /page (+195) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-16/line/1439788373001 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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colintedford Cool, thanks!
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tantek what is pagination?
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colintedford tantek++
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "pagination" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/101X
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Loqi tantek has 229 karma
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tantek.com edited /page (+177) "expand dfn, linky, see also" (view diff)
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tantek what is a page?
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Loqi page is short for webpage on the IndieWeb, and can by default be marked up with h-entry (like body class=h-entry) for link-preview purposes unless the page serves a more specific purpose like a homepage or an event https://indiewebcamp.com/page
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@andigalpern RT @indiewebcamp: @andigalpern "fully"? No. See TOS. GA is a starting point. There are other hosted & OSS options http://indiewebcamp.com/analytics ^@t (twitter.com/_/status/633145838626205696)
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tantek pagination is a UI pattern for navigation across (typically chronologically) sequential pages that show multiple posts.
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loqi.me created /pagination (+146) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-16/line/1439788473990 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek.com edited /2013/Hollywood/Pagination (+132) "put archived header with link to its camp" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /pagination (+261) "expand dfn, linky, see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /push-vs-pull (+15) "linky" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /navigation (+21) "linky" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /archive (+4) "/* Shane Becker */ linky" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Indie.js (+4) "/* indie-entries */ linky" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /pagination (+33) "also applies to single post at a time pagination" (view diff)
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tantek colintedford: see what you made me do ;)
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tantek what is pagination?
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Loqi pagination is a UI pattern for navigation across (typically chronologically) sequential pages that show one or more posts such as permalink post pages, archives, search results, and lists of tagged posts https://indiewebcamp.com/pagination
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colintedford muahahaha
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KartikPrabhu tantek: colintedford: was the question about "static pages"? Should "static pages" still be h-entry?
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tantek KartikPrabhu: even static pages typically have a name (title), and were created at some discrete point in time.
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tantek thus h-entry makes sense for them too!
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KartikPrabhu i see. good to know
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tantek especially if you have a CMS like WP where it's "all in the database" anyway
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colintedford KartikPrabhu: Yup
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colintedford I look forward to having a CMS where it's not "all in the database" someday ;)
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pokr pretty sure the IWC people are trolls. tried for years to watch their live "Camps", using every html5 browser on linux i can find. convinced Google wont let you see the crap w/o an account or a mac or flashplugin or something. finally youtuibe'DL'd it and it was a room full of people on macs. the most jailed, anti-freedom tech company of all time
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pokr we know that you need 2 implementations of something to get W3C approval, and google cant just invent shit like microosft. so it has to pay mozilla to make the 2nd implementation as some kiond of puppet proxy. ther'es nothing indie about makintg stuff that relies on shit made by 2 companies but ultimately funded b one
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pokr then we have people like tantek, who have these rambling screeds against email.. something decentralized, a plethora of open implementations, and most of hte complaints seem to be rooted in stuff that's a UI decision of certian implementors. like having an "inbox"
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tantek pokr - it sounds like you're upset about a bunch of things, but if you'd like to work on your personal website, we can help with that.
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[aaronpk] Hey pokr, friendly reminder that IndieWebCamp is focused on the idea of owning your online identity.
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tantek.com edited /bim (+123) "tweak dfn, cite additional links (now that I've finally posted one on my own site)" (view diff)
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M-kegan Pythons packaging is downright terrible. We didn't know that at the time of course
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[aaronpk] While things like not relying on closed source software, and using only open protocols for video and voice communication are interesting, and while many people involved with IndieWebCamp are also interested in those, they are not the focus of this community
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Loqi M-kegan: aaronpk left you a message 4 hours, 16 minutes ago: I couldn't get the matrix-micropub client installed, it says "Error: Cannot find module 'matrix-appservice-micropub'" when I try to run app.js http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-16/line/1439776052526
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M-kegan I probably npm linked the micropub client which is why it's whining about it missing
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M-kegan That or you didn't run npm install?
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M-kegan Looks like either of those will work, but typically I forgot to put that in the readme, bah.
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tantek colintedford: are you considering switching to flat /file-storage ? or just hoping/looking for a "CMS" that uses one?
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colintedford tantek: yes, definitely want flat/file storage
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colintedford preferably not coded by me since I'm not a programmer
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tantek semi-related, since I use flat-files time-sharded by bim, and realized that didn't have good search-findable definition, went ahead and posted: https://twitter.com/t/status/633156249715142656
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@t bim definition noun; plural: bims 1. each of six newcal periods into which a year is divided. 2. 61 days, ... http://tantek.com/2015/228/t3/bim-definition (twitter.com/_/status/633156249715142656)
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colintedford (though I do want to learn)
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tantek colintedford: good to know. I think someone might be working on a flat-file backend for Known though I'm not certain
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tantek I've been open sourcing bits and pieces of /Falcon as they mature and I can convert them to CASSIS but it's nowhere near ready for someone else to try on their own site.
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colintedford tantek: ooh, I hope so! I remember seeing benwerd mention that that could be done a while back, and it thrilled me
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tantek yes, Known is pretty awesome. good team there working on it too, benwerd & erinjo
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colintedford currently in the running besides hypothetical flat-storage Known are /Kirby and /neonblog
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colintedford (of course, I realized neonblog sounded like a maybe-good fit a couple weeks after emmak moved on from it :/ )
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tantek colintedford: I've been really impressed with emmak's iterations, on neonblog, and what she showed she was working on next at IWC Portland
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tantek I think anything she opensourced would be worth taking a look at
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colintedford tantek: definitely planning to at least study it
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colintedford i'm also very impressed (in my layperson way)
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colintedford haha, i just got top-level microformats into my wordpress theme! :D
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colintedford (on a div not body b/c wordpress magic)
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colintedford i guess now i have to check if the incomplete mf i'd already put in matches up
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M-kegan !tell aaronpk try "npm install matrix-appservice-micropub" or "npm link; npm link matrix-appservice-micropub"
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek colintedford++ good work! Do you have a sample "page" that you'd like checked?
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Loqi colintedford has 4 karma
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colintedford tantek: my plain "pages" just have h-entry (& legacy hentry) so far
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colintedford I guess I should mark up the name and main content -- anything else?
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colintedford example "page": http://colintedford.com/templates/
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tantek yes definitely markup the p-name
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tantek hmm - looks like you already have good enough legacy hentry markup too
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tantek with the "title" marked up with entry-title
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tantek I think currently that will parse as an entry inside an entry, since you have hentry inside h-entry
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cweiske do we have a tool that warns about superfluous mf1 markup?
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KartikPrabhu tantek: the legacy embedding thing seems to be common for wordpress. even snarfed's site has it
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tantek cweiske: if the legacy markup "works" (as it most often should, per backcompat parsing), it's not superfluous per se
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tantek the challenge in particular is helping transition
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cweiske yep, but maybe I have both mf2 and mf1 markup
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cweiske s/maybe//
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Loqi cweiske meant to say: yep, but  I have both mf2 and mf1 markup
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tantek cweiske - I suppose then the question is what do you want
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cweiske a tool that tells me what to remove
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tantek implying you only want uf2?
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cweiske sure
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tantek ah ok
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tantek since the parsers all do explicit detection of classic mf1, they could be altered to *warn* when they see duplicate mf1 classes on the same elements as mf2, or especially warn if they see mf1 versions of classes *inside* mf2 classes.
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tantek that would be quite useful - good idea cweiske
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KartikPrabhu debug mode for parsers?
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cweiske dev mode
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tantek more like a Linter
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colintedford tantek: oops, i have hentry *inside* h-entry?
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cweiske my jsonmapper lib for example has options to warn about unknown properties in classes that exist in json data. we enable that during development to get notified when json data changes
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tantek colintedford: yes, on the <article> inside the <div>
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tantek cweiske: makes sense
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tantek colintedford: is the "2004–2015" on your page generated or static?
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cweiske on live systems, it is deactivated
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KartikPrabhu arbitrary nesting check for mf1 inside mf2 will be hard as an algorithm
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tantek if it's generated, then you could markup the latest year as dt-updated at least, assuming the page is updated then
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cweiske KartikPrabhu, there could be a "warn about mf1 classes"
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cweiske setting
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tantek yes, cweiske is right, that would be a good place to start with a linter
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KartikPrabhu cweiske: hmm yes good first step
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KartikPrabhu then possibly document common patterns mostly from Wordpress and target those?
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tantek cweiske: btw did you see http://stream.withknown.com/2015/how-to-do-more-with-rss-feeds ? There's probably some stuff there that's worth adding to /RSS if you're interested.
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tantek KartikPrabhu: definitely
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cweiske no, I did not see that
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cweiske tantek, why should that be put into /RSS?
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tantek because of the real world use-cases that are documented for *still* using RSS!
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colintedford tantek: shoot, that article hentry is coming from a wordpress function :(
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KartikPrabhu colintedford: yes wordpress by default inserts a lot of mf1 markup
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colintedford KartikPrabhu: I know :(
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KartikPrabhu another reason I stay away from wordpress, a lot mof mix between code, filter, template etc..
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colintedford tantek: would just removing the higher hentry work ok? i'm not sure i can remove the article one w/out delving deeper than i'd like
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tantek yes
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colintedford ok, good, that's easy
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tantek I mean yes to both the h-entry and hentry that are higher level
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tantek really you should only have one for the page as a whole
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tantek and it looks like you already did have one!
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colintedford hmmmmmm
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tantek the pin13.net tool is useful for checking that!
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KartikPrabhu colintedford: before adding more mf2 markup always a good idea to check with existig parsers.
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tantek right, see what you already have!
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colintedford I mistakenly thought I'd replaced the function that produced that hentry (obviously didn't look very closely)
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colintedford I had seen what I had a while back
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KartikPrabhu even in mf2 most times default implicit parsing is good enough
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colintedford but then didn't touch my site for a few months
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tantek yes
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colintedford the one that makes the article hentry spits out a bunch of other classes, too
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colintedford I guess maybe mf2 will have to wait
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colintedford still tinkering w/ wordpress b/c not quite ready to jump ship, but i don't want to explore its darkest recesses
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colintedford oh, i see, i was confused b/c I replaced the semi-superfluous hfeed that GWG wants wordpress to stop putting in.
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colintedford sheesh
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colintedford goodbye, baby's first php function
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colintedford welcome back funky hfeed
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tantek colintedford: indeed, the challenge of fully upgrading a WordPress install from mf1 to *only* mf2 is something I think GWG's been working on for a while, largely made complicated by what KartikPrabhu referred to - "lot of mix between code, filter, template etc."
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colintedford tantek: uch, yeah. they did post_class() in a way that doesn't let me add classes to whatever it's generating classes for; otherwise it'd be easy :(
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colintedford reidab: page date: "2015" is auto-generated, but any given page won't necessarily have been update in the current year.
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colintedford sorry, reidab, I meant re:
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colintedford tantek: re: page date: "2015" is auto-generated, but any given page won't necessarily have been update in the current year.
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colintedford *updated
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (+218) "Put Microformats 2 on hold 'til I stop using Wordpress or someone dispels WP's magic mf1." (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (+150) "/* Wants */ (Unified) Indieweb messaging, more so than before." (view diff)
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colintedford ben_thatmust: I'd love to see your unified messaging project documented on your user page!
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KartikPrabhu what is indeweb-messaging?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "indeweb-messaging" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/101Y
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cweiske what is a typo?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "typo" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/101Z
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KartikPrabhu blergh
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KartikPrabhu what is indieweb-messaging?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/indieweb_messaging
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colintedford (or the existing info linked from there)
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tantek what is messaging?
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Loqi messaging refers to one user sending another user a message (memo, letter, etc.) https://indiewebcamp.com/messaging
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colintedford KartikPrabhu: I was thinking of the stuff mentioned at https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge/messaging
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colintedford (which I'm psyched to find that page now, b/c before all I had was memories from the logs & no luck on the wiki)
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colintedford I guess I should link that from /messaging
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colintedford.com edited /messaging (+209) "/* Brainstorming */ Add Ben Roberts' unified messaging project" (view diff)
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colintedford !tell ben_thatmust, benthatmustbeme: I'd love to see your unified messaging project documented on your user page! I linked to the 2015 Cambridge session from /messaging .
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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colintedford.com edited /Kirby (+364) "dev's enthusiastic about indieweb. todo: get examples from chat logs." (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu what is Kirby?
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Loqi Kirby is a filed-based CMS https://indiewebcamp.com/Kirby
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KartikPrabhu colintedford++ for updating wiki based on itches
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Loqi colintedford has 5 karma
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colintedford aw shuxles
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Loqi [mention] Note to Self liked https://indiewebcamp.com/ https://webmention.io/notification/T1x6c2G32kXkOcpajy7OSw
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colintedford.com edited /database-antipattern (+19) "link to /database (even though it's stubby)" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (+770) "/* Flat-file storage */ neonblog & Kirby, Known storage rumor, relink Pelican & demote it & Nikola, remove Bear ditching Pelican b/c old reasons" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /Kirby (+581) "webmention plugin, indieweb examples" (view diff)
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rhiaro.co.uk created /events/2015-08-20-homebrew-website-club (+2011) "Created page with "<div class="h-event vevent"> = <span class="p-name summary">Homebrew Website Club Meetup</span> = == Details == === When === <span class="dt-start dtstart"><time class="value">..."" (view diff)
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /Template:Homebrew_Website_Club (+54) (view diff)
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /next-hwc (+0) "Redirected page to [[events/2015-08-20-homebrew-website-club]]" (view diff)
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rhiaro !tell tantek, aaronpk: can I update the wiki side menu to add Edinburgh to HWC link? (how?)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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rhiaro !tell tbrb, R2ZER0, camerongray, moredhel, Gumiho, anm, KitB: HWC Edinburgh on Thursday! https://indiewebcamp.com/next-hwc
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tbrb rhiaro++
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Loqi tbrb: rhiaro left you a message 19 seconds ago: HWC Edinburgh on Thursday! https://indiewebcamp.com/next-hwc http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-17/line/1439806081176
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Loqi rhiaro has 144 karma
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tbrb I probably can't make it though, have some other things happening this thursday
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rhiaro d'aww
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rhiaro !tell _fran: HWC Edinburgh on Thursday! https://indiewebcamp.com/next-hwc
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kodfabrik.se edited /private-webmention (+38) "Adding link to private messaging brainstorm" (view diff)
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kegan !tell aaronpk Added onNickConflict to the node-irc lib
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@RikMende .@nxD4n un tout grand merci pour ton plugin tt-rss-known https://github.com/danito/tt-rss-known ! #indieweb #rss (twitter.com/_/status/633255376587227137)
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@RikMende RT @pfefferle: I is for Indie http://tantek.com/2015/224/b1/alphabet-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/633255494103232514)
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@svenkaemper #OwnYourGram - https://ownyourgram.com #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/633269225654722560)
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tbrb rhiaro: Just got my h-card set up on my site now
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cweiske is there a php feed library that understands h-feeds?
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voxpelli cweiske: is there such a library for any language? :P
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cweiske i thought someone already made a patch for simplepie or so
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voxpelli simplepie seems like a pretty dead project :/
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voxpelli https://packagist.org/packages/mf2/mf2/dependents shows no published Composer packages that depends on the main mf2-package that would consume RSS as well
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cweiske if you know a better one
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voxpelli simplepie is the only one I've used
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voxpelli cweiske: a search on Packagist finds libraries like https://github.com/fguillot/picoFeed as well
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voxpelli many seems to be pretty bloated and not just do the parsing but also a hundred different things around it – like fetching the feed and such – not really what I would want from a library :/
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voxpelli cweiske: https://packagist.org/packages/zendframework/zend-feed seems pretty small though
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cweiske the world is so small. this lib is used in the ownCloud feed reader, and I had contact with the author himself a bit alreayd
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voxpelli the picoFeed one?
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cweiske yep
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voxpelli (zend-feed wasn't small btw, it just didn't have many dependencies :P My mistake)
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voxpelli jumping between PHP and Node.js makes for interesting impressions – one favors big object oriented things with lots of interfaces and inheritance, the other small tiny modules that's composed together
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tantek KevinMarks: just noticed that feed.unmung.com/feed?feed = requires explicit http(s) - could you perhaps allow http-less URLs as a param and imply http in that case?
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Loqi tantek: rhiaro left you a message 4 hours, 4 minutes ago: can I update the wiki side menu to add Edinburgh to HWC link? (how?) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-17/line/1439805965694
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tantek rhiaro: /Sidebar
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rhiaro tantek: thanks!
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tantek also /next-hwc
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rhiaro I did /next-hwc
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tantek and /topic in here :)
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rhiaro ooh yeah, I should do that
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tantek events are hard ;)
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rhiaro Don't we have technology to automate these things? Loqi, lend a hand?
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Loqi :)
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tantek oh and /events of course for the record
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rhiaro oh, what's on /events.. haven't even looked at that
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tantek uh what
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tantek it's also linked from the sidebar
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tantek and /Main_Page
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rhiaro This is too many things to update
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voxpelli cweiske: looks like it would require quite some refactoring of the parser classes in picoFeed though :/ Right now it expects all formats to be XML-based. Would probably be good, but perhaps a bit too much job.
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rhiaro tantek: I can't change /topic, says it needs ops
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tantek rhiaro: ah, then the trick is just type your /topic line in here, preceded by keyword adminhelp and someone with ops should see it (convention from #microformats)
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tantek e.g.
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tantek adminhelp /topic this is the new topic
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rhiaro adminhelp /topic Welcome! Next meetup: https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-08-20-homebrew-website-club (Edinburgh) See code of conduct: https://indiewebcamp.com/code-of-conduct and logs: https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/today
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rhiaro Also /Sidebar is 'protected', can't edit that either
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tantek rhiaro - yes I know - too many things to update. I definitely struggle with it. sad thing is that calendaring sw sucks at this too.
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rhiaro Ideal process: create indie event -> send webmention to wiki -> updates happen
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rhiaro or something
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rhiaro or, if there was just one place that listed events
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tantek rhiaro: /events is the one place
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tantek everything else should be derived from that
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rhiaro plus the individual pages, and the hwc bottom menu thing
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tantek rhiaro: /events is the one place *that lists events*
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tantek the individual pages are event permalink pages - can't avoid that being different
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aaronpk good morning
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Loqi aaronpk: M-kegan left you a message 7 hours, 46 minutes ago: try "npm install matrix-appservice-micropub" or "npm link; npm link matrix-appservice-micropub" http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-16/line/1439793152469
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Loqi aaronpk: rhiaro left you a message 4 hours, 12 minutes ago: can I update the wiki side menu to add Edinburgh to HWC link? (how?) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-17/line/1439805965694
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Loqi aaronpk: kegan left you a message 2 hours, 50 minutes ago: Added onNickConflict to the node-irc lib http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-17/line/1439810894366
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tantek the HWC bottom summary could be a summary filter *from* /events
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tantek and yes, /Sidebar and /next-hwc and /next-iwc could be automatically updated from /events
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tantek as well as /Main_Page
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /Events (+1650) (view diff)
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tantek perhaps we need a "How To" on events
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rhiaro The 10 step process for listing your indieweb event
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tantek rhiaro: the minimum is to add it to /Events
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tantek other stuff is special case, e.g. not all events are HWC, or IWC
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rhiaro okie dokie
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tantek e.g. aaronpk's micropub session is *only* listed on /Events
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tantek took only one page change, since the event "permalink" is on another site
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tantek rhiaro: there's even more steps, documenting now
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tantek.com edited /Events (+1169) "How To Add An Event, using HWC as an example" (view diff)
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tantek rhiaro: is this useful? https://indiewebcamp.com/Events#How_To_Add_An_Event
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tantek what did I miss?
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@MartianOdyssey Reading "Welcome to the Indie Web Movement" by Dan Gillmor #indieweb http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/04/25/indiewebcamps_create_tools_for_a_new_internet.html (twitter.com/_/status/633297583004192769)
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KevinMarks_ Check out this project on Webmaker! https://beta.webmaker.org/users/460546/projects/8308
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Loqi KevinMarks_: tantek left you a message 12 hours, 38 minutes ago: the plumbing for a UI error is itself a deductive error :P http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-16/line/1439779551581
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Loqi KevinMarks_: tantek left you a message 12 hours, 36 minutes ago: (speaking of UI errors ;) uh, blaming the plumbing for a UI error is itself a deductive error :P http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-16/line/1439779622994
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KevinMarks_ The question is still "is there a use case for white space preservation?"
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tantek KevinMarks: sadly a js;dr - is that what you meant?
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tantek and a sad old-style /#/ URL also
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tantek since the question is dead to history, perhaps it is ignorable
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tantek KevinMarks: on a more productive note, can you make unmung accept URLs without http?
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tantek e.g. http://feed.unmung.com/feed?feed=earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/feed/v1.0/summary/2.5_day.atom
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KevinMarks_ I was trying out webmaker to see what kind of a web it is making. Maybe it's fixable.
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KevinMarks_ Yes, I need to make unmung consistent about http handling and caching
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tantek KevinMarks I tried fixing it ages ago - adding microformats etc. and then they broke ALL the permalinks
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tantek and now it's js;dr - so I've given up on webmaker, since it has given up on the web
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tantek feel free to reach out to them on Twitter if you think it'll make a difference, and ask them to fix their site so it's not js;dr
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tantek KevinMarks: here's the example of a past event on Webmaker: http://indiewebcamp.com/2012/UK#Posts_About specifically: https://webmaker.org/en-US/events/4673de2a0/ which they broke first with a 404, then now a js;dr to a re-used event ID.
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tantek sad thing is that https://webmaker.org/en-US/events/4673de2a0/ didn't even get archived by archive.org in 2012 when I created it :/
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KevinMarks that is several kinds of broken
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tantek anyway - it's not really indieweb related so I'll take it off topic
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tantek I wonder if the IWC wiki should send webmentions to all links in the contents of a page when its created or updated (except not to itself obv)
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tantek s/its/it's
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Loqi tantek meant to say: I wonder if the IWC wiki should send webmentions to all links in the contents of a page when it's created or updated (except not to it'self obv)
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tantek lol it'self
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kylewm just don't frame it as a mediawiki plugin if you want to snipe aaronpk into doing it
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aaronpk heh
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tantek every wiki page is kind of like its own post right? so it should send webmentions upon "posting" (creation) and "updating" (editing/saving) right?
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aaronpk seems reasonable
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aaronpk technically every IRC utterance is as well, but i think that would be too spammy
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tantek we don't link to things too often in IRC right?
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tantek the key there is not webmention things which are just notifications themselves, like when Loqi mentions webmentions in IRC that pages have received
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Loqi :)
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aaronpk it happens surprisingly often, like when people are talking about test URLs and stuff
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tantek although I suppose that would make for an odd confirmation feedback loop kind of thing
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aaronpk but wiki pages i think would be reasonable
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@tinokremer A nice summary about the #indieweb and why you want to be part of it. Longer NL post from me about it later. http://dangillmor.com/2014/04/25/indie-web-important/ (twitter.com/_/status/633338230847479808)
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GWG is frustrated
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tantek sorry to hear that GWG
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GWG I have not been able to work on my site for over a week
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aaronpk tell me about it!
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GWG aaronpk: Usually when I am injured or sick, I lie in bed with a laptop.
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GWG So I feel like I did something
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tantek checks last-modified date on falcon.php - 18 days ago.
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tantek I feel your frustration GWG :)
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GWG I have all these ideas I want to work on
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cleverdevil feels the pain as well...
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tantek checks last-modified date on cassis.js - 17 days ago - ah, right added .space support to auto_link for Lancey.
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cleverdevil lately, I've been traveling a lot, though.
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cleverdevil and airplanes are a great time to get things done :)
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pokr put up your wishlist, i'm unemployable and bored. just no PHP or Python
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tantek GWG, you know where to put all those ideas right? ;)
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aaronpk pokr: how's your Ruby? There's an outstanding bug in the Ruby mf2 parser that is up for grabs https://github.com/G5/microformats2/issues/31
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GWG tantek: Audio recorder?
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tantek GWG: http://indiewebcamp.com/User:David.shanske.com#Itches :D
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GWG http://the-digital-reader.com/2015/08/17/facebook-is-turning-its-notes-feature-into-a-blogging-platform/
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GWG Feh
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kylewm had to double check the year on that article
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snarfed yeah fbnotes have
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snarfed er. fb notes have been around *forever*. evidently getting a facelift
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tantek I think in some past era I was PESOSING my tweets to FB notes. Maybe from a BlackBerry client? this is like last decade.
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GWG Apparently this is a style change
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aaronpk hm I need examples of how people display tags on their posts
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GWG Possibly to take on Medium and encourage more long form
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snarfed tantek: heh, maybe. not any more :( https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/429
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snarfed more commentary: http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/where-is-the-editor-for-facebook-notes
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tantek aaronpk why?
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tantek I think modern UIs have mostly switched to in-place styling of tags (e.g. linking hashtags)
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aaronpk cause I need a new place to display them on my site since my new design doesn't have a sidebar
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tantek rather than separate lists of tags
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tantek huh, "on my site" is a different question than "on their posts"
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aaronpk I often have tags on posts that aren't in the post text tho, especially for long articles
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tantek homepage or permalinks?
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aaronpk permalinks as well as in list views
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tantek a-ha, narrowing the question - how to display /tags in /articles
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tantek permalinks vs list views are a very different design
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aaronpk notes too tho, cause the same thing is true for my notes, i often have tags on them that aren't in the note text
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tantek aaronpk, consider tags like other about-like info you might display (location, temperature, etc.)
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kylewm.com edited /tags (+391) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add me" (view diff)
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aaronpk yeah that's what I was thinking. my little post footer is getting pretty big tho
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tantek unless you support receiving /u-tag-of /responses in which case they are kind of like halfway between /comments and /likes or /reposts
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tantek (other people tagging your posts)
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aaronpk oo kylewm I like the way you show syndications
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@jgmac1106 @benwerd @ErnaKotkamp @Gouwehand Basically an #indieweb version called #indieEd (twitter.com/_/status/633354548531331072)
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kylewm thanks!
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aaronpk if I do that too I can save a line
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tantek aaronpk - example permalink?
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kylewm ok I'm putting /tags into indiewebify.me's webmention sender as a test
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aaronpk https://kylewm.com/2015/08/updated-woodwind-to-preselect-syndication-targets
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tantek maybe worth capturing on ...
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tantek goes down a wiki rabbithole
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aaronpk hehe sorry
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aaronpk #sorrynotsorry
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tantek #youwinthisround
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tantek finds an old wiki page that needs updating to recent content stylistic patterns
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KevinMarks hm, I checked the 'share to facebook' thingy on that Known post, but it didn't go over.
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@windley Internet Identity Workshop early bird pricing ends Friday. #iiw #vrm #indieweb http://www.internetidentityworkshop.com/ https://twitter.com/windley/status/633357661942083585/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/633357661942083585)
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@idworkshop RT @windley: Internet Identity Workshop early bird pricing ends Friday. #iiw #vrm #indieweb http://www.internetidentityworkshop.com/ https://twitter.com/windley/status/633357661942083585/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/633357701016236036)
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tantek.com edited /posts-elsewhere (+664) "update to IndieWeb Examples, subsections per person, add Kylewm" (view diff)
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tantek kylewm: do you remember when you started showing your syndications on posts? could you add an earlier date and reference to: https://indiewebcamp.com/posts-elsewhere#Kyle_Mahan
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tantek.com created /syndications (+29) "r" (view diff)
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tantek what is also on?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "also on" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/101a
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tantek also on is /posts-elsewhere
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loqi.me created /also_on (+29) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-17/line/1439841296517 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek what is syndicated to
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "syndicated to" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/101b
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tantek syndicated to is /posts-elsewhere
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loqi.me created /syndicated_to (+29) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-17/line/1439841329002 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek what is also posted on
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "also posted on" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/101c
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tantek also posted on is /posts-elsewhere
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loqi.me created /also_posted_on (+29) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-17/line/1439841347829 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek hopefully that makes https://indiewebcamp.com/posts-elsewhere more discoverable
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@ttepasse @cjk101010 It means he’s using the @ttsdevdiary-Account for the POSSE*-Feature for his website, one presumes: *http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/633372413162557440)
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tantek.com edited /POSSE (+373) "expand dfn, re-organize along Why, How-to, Examples sections like other pages, update mine" (view diff)
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aaronpk kylewm: do you ever syndicate to sites where you may not have an icon for them?
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aaronparecki.com edited /also_posted_on (-1) "Redirected page to [[posts-elsewhere]]" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /syndicated_to (-1) "Redirected page to [[posts-elsewhere]]" (view diff)
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@offrayLC Nice to see #indieWeb reinvigorated by initiatives like #Known and #Momentum and blogging coming back e.g: https://via.hypothes.is/https://medium.com/@momentumim/what-we-need-is-human-centric-application-patterns-af1d0dcd8fde (twitter.com/_/status/633379711071076352)
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tantek GWG, I love that you have so many ideas for what you want to do.
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tantek I think that's a wonderful thing.
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tantek Please share them on your Itches list!
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@offrayLC @momentumim Do you have also #indieweb presence in #Known or other descentralized microblogging platform? (twitter.com/_/status/633383009756954624)
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snarfed aaronpk: as a data point, i use icons for synd links, but fall back to text when there's no icon
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snarfed e.g. https://snarfed.org/2015-08-01_14884 vs https://snarfed.org/posting-to-the-indieweb-from-your-phone#comments
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tantek aaronpk: looks like IndieNews needs an icon ;)
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aaronpk thanks!
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aaronpk just made calendar views for my year and month permalinks on my new site :)
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tantek whoa
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tantek what is archive?
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aaronpk i've had a monthly view for a while, but i'm adding year now too http://aaronparecki.com/2015/08
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Loqi archive in the context of the indieweb refers to date-grouped (often monthly) sets of posts (AKA personal historical archives, a common form of navigation), but can sometimes mean archival copy, a copy of a web page made (often by someone other than the author) at a particular point in time https://indiewebcamp.com/archive
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tantek aaronpk, perhaps expand your entry here? https://indiewebcamp.com/archive#Aaron_Parecki
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aaronpk this is part of the hackable URL bit of my site
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tantek that's pretty darn cool
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aaronparecki.com edited /archive (+208) "/* Aaron Parecki */" (view diff)
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@offrayLC I [also] want the blogs back: https://petermolnar.eu/journal/i-want-the-blogs-back #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/633389343873220608)
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gregorlove.com edited /posts-elsewhere (+329) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ +me" (view diff)
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aaronpk the good news is so far it's way faster for me to add things in my new framework
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@ChrisAldrich I'm hosting a BoF session for #IndieWeb for Drupal at the upcoming @ladrupal #DrupalCamp http://2015.drupalcampla.com/sessions/indieweb-movement-and-drupal (twitter.com/_/status/633422071834411008)
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Loqi [mention] Tantek Çelik liked a post that linked to alphabet https://indiewebcamp.com/alphabet https://webmention.io/notification/_4a-vIIZmd42YICvBUpRZw
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