#indiewebcamp 2015-09-01

2015-09-01 UTC
#
tantek fascinating how the new Twitter replies threading / "View other replies" hiding/progressive disclosure can be used to alter the default appearance of dialog on a tweet. E.g. see this https://twitter.com/t/status/638501941698514944 by replying to the first reply, I caused other replies to it to be hidden by default.
#
@t Enjoyed Tomorrowland on flights to&from Paris. Better than critics/ratings. Perspective shifted http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1964418/ (ttk.me t4cy4) (twitter.com/_/status/638501941698514944)
lukebrooker, Kongaloosh and cmhobbs joined the channel
#
Loqi [mention] Arief Rahman Hakim liked a post that linked to a photo: "Content-Security-Policy" https://indiewebcamp.com/Content-Security-Policy https://webmention.io/notification/Vc0Pj9UGXxnl9rmoFKzuJQ
#
kylewm tantek: have you written about whether or not you should show a reply-context on your h-feed? (that is, i'm curious why you don't)
#
tantek kylewm: I don't think I've written about it no, however I think reply-contexts inline in a stream (especially composite stream) would add too much clutter/noise vs. value
#
tantek what is a composite stream?
#
Loqi A composite stream is a stream that interleaves multiple types of posts, such as notes and articles https://indiewebcamp.com/composite_stream
#
kylewm I think I agree w/r/t your design (other designs that have more space, like Known's, I think it is fine) ... it's just another area where I lose a bit of fidelity by dealing with the h-feed instead of fetching each individual h-entry in Woodwind
#
kylewm but that's fine, i'm still ok with the tradeoff
#
tantek no fidelity is lost - the /reply-context is cache/presentation anyway
#
tantek you have the in-reply-to in the h-entry that you can retrieve if you want to show a reply-context yourself on a permalink in Woodwind
#
kylewm right, I made the trade off early on to just fetch h-feeds, and not pull down each individual permalink
#
tantek oh - I get it - I'm not putting the in-reply-to link/URL in the h-entry posts in my h-feed at all
#
tantek so you don't even have the choice to display them or not
#
kylewm oh sorry, right that's what i mean
#
tantek hmm - I suppose a very abbreviated reply-context could make sense in a composite stream, as another visual cue to distinguish reply posts and other notes
#
tantek clever question. will have to think about this and see if I can come up with a good design iteration.
#
kylewm :) either way you go is fine with me, I think it looks nice now on your site, and there's no confusion about which posts are replies
#
tantek kylewm - current distinction is a bit subtle - and requires that I start replies with "@-name" references which is suboptimal - too Twitter-centric a design.
#
aaronpk I find that some sort of indication that a post is in-reply-to is helpful
#
aaronpk i've started by showing a small line with just the in-reply-to URL as a reply context
#
tantek I'm thinking of maybe even just leading with a reply icon
#
tantek that's linked to the in-reply-to
#
tantek for the in-stream view
#
aaronpk I don't think I want the full reply context in a stream view tho
#
Loqi gives aaronpk the full reply context in a stream view tho
#
tantek I'm thinking *only* the icon, inline. not on its own line
#
tantek that way I'd have both a small visual cue to more clearly indicate replies (independent of starting with @-name), and it could link with in-reply-to so h-feed readers would see that information too
#
kylewm this one? http://si0.twimg.com/images/dev/cms/intents/icons/reply_hover.png
#
tantek yeah
#
kylewm I'm surprised not to find a unicode arrow like that
#
kylewm ↰ maybe...
#
tantek or maybe ↪
#
tantek because it makes sense that the arrow would point towards the reply
#
tantek whereas that Twitter icon is meant to indicate the action of you replying
#
kylewm that is always an issue with these... not making it look like your post *is* the reply context
#
GWG kylewm: I had that problem multiple times.
#
tantek yes! see example here: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#implied_properties_on_backcompat_parsing_unlikely_to_be_intended
#
tantek note how the ↪ arrows point *to* the replies
#
tantek ok that's it then
#
GWG That reminds me. I have a breakthrough in the WordPress microformats work.
#
tantek oooh! please share!
#
GWG The next WordPress default theme is Twenty-sixteen, currently under development
#
GWG They, because of some seeds I planted, have already made two mods, and I'm trying to slip in more.
#
GWG 1. They are going to correctly use hfeed.
#
GWG 2. hentry will not be used as a styling element.
#
GWG That means their original microformats implementation will be better.
#
tantek GWG, classic hfeed hentry or mf2 h-feed h-entry, or both?
#
GWG And pfefferle's wordpress-uf2 plugin, which tries to add microformats2 as a plugin will actually not break the style.
#
GWG classic hfeed hentry
#
GWG My goal is to make enough modifications to the theme that we can add the rest by plugin
#
GWG So, one step
#
tantek so this will fix their use of classic hfeed hentry so that it can be plugin upgraded to use mf2 h-feed h-entry ?
#
GWG Yes
#
tantek GWG++ !!!
#
Loqi GWG has 116 karma
#
GWG But only on the default theme.
#
GWG Still a place to start
#
aaronpk progress!!
#
aaronpk GWG++
#
Loqi GWG has 117 karma
#
kylewm GWG++
#
Loqi GWG has 118 karma
#
tantek.com edited /Falcon (+866) "/* improve replies details */ show icon reply-context in-stream, thanks to prompting with good questions from kylewm" (view diff)
#
GWG I feel like I'm trying to build a swimming pool with a table spoon, but...
#
tantek.com edited /Falcon (+246) "/* show icon reply-context in-stream */ note example of microformats wiki class="discussion" nested list items that also use an icon shaped like ↪ to indicate reply posts" (view diff)
gRegorLove joined the channel
#
tantek.com created /↪ (+19) "r" (view diff)
#
kylewm GWG: it's like politics, you don't have any control over anything except you can occasionally, through subterfuge, turn people a tiny bit one direction or the other
#
aaronpk it actually is politics, lol
#
gRegorLove Hmm, so when bridgy is sending webmentions 'upstream' in a thread of notes, how are people handling processing those? My current logic is failing because the wm sent upstream to A doesn't have A's URL in it.
cmhobbs joined the channel
#
GWG hates politics
#
aaronpk bridgy fakes it by including the upstream URLs in the u-url property iirc
#
gRegorLove GWG++ baby steps
#
Loqi GWG has 119 karma
#
tantek oh dear that doesn't sound good (faking it with u-url)
#
aaronpk that's the only reason twitter threads appear on my notes, i don't have any special handling for more than one reply
#
gRegorLove No, it doesn't appear to do that.
#
aaronpk tantek: oh I agree, but that's an intentional "feature" of bridgy. also it has benefit me even if I don't believe it's technically the correct thing to do
#
gRegorLove Or at least, not currently (?)
#
aaronpk oh it doesn't set multiple, but it does set it for the upstream post
#
aaronpk example: https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/aaronpk/634836468620521472/634839254766628864
#
gRegorLove Here's the example I'm using: https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/gRegorLove/638046136603770880/638046281953353728
#
tantek maybe I'm just misunderstanding
#
aaronpk i replied to @jshardison's tweet which was in reply to mine, but bridgy shows my reply as a reply to my own first post
#
tantek originally-in-reply-to
#
aaronpk also afaik bridgy doesn't send a webmention that wouldn't validate
#
gRegorLove I'm only seeing one in-reply-to in that bridgy mf2
#
aaronpk are you sure you didn't get two separate webmentions for that?
#
gRegorLove I'm referring to the example links we both linked. Which part is the faking it you're referring to?
#
kylewm gRegorLove: I would've expected bridgy to send one webmention, to http://gregorlove.com/2015/08/indiana_mama-yeah-ill-reply-today/, from that link you shared
#
kylewm is that not what happened?
#
aaronpk gRegorLove: see my description above
#
aaronpk compare the in-reply-to URL of the bridgy link vs what's actually on twitter
snarfed joined the channel
#
gRegorLove kylewm: Yeah, it was sent there. That note of mine is in a long reply-chain, so the wm was also sent upstream to my earlier notes. The latter is where my process fails.
#
gRegorLove And I'm sure it's my process, not bridgy, to be clear.
#
aaronpk i think ben_thatmustbeme is actually handling reply chains for reals
#
kylewm oh are you sending salmentions to yourself?
#
gRegorLove No
#
gRegorLove Bridgy sends upstream
#
aaronpk i really don't think bridgy sends webmentions that have an invalid link
#
aaronpk when bridgy sends webmentions upstream it sets the in-reply-to url as the original post
#
kylewm gRegorLove: did it send a different proxy of the same tweet upstream?
#
gRegorLove Looking through a lot of unprocessed bridgy links, just a moment
#
kylewm i'm just not really understanding the issue, maybe take to github?
#
kylewm bridgy shouldn't be sending two webmentions for that tweet at all, definitely not upstream
#
gRegorLove I have this bridgy source URL sent to 3 pages: https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/gRegorLove/638046136603770880/638046281953353728 1) http://gregorlove.com/2015/10/indiana_mama-jdragz-ragzdoll13-me-four.we/ 2) http://gregorlove.com/2015/08/indiana_mama-jdragz-ragzdoll13-you-have/ 3) http://gregorlove.com/2015/08/indiana_mama-yeah-ill-reply-today/
#
tantek oooh! I'm going to test my new explicit whitespace markup + Bridgy Publish to FB
#
tantek IT WORKED!
#
@strugee2 RT @t: ATT wifi injects ads http://webpolicy.org/2015/08/25/att-hotspots-now-with-advertising-injection/ = I learned+deployed CSP https://indiewebcamp.com/Content-Security-Policy You should too. #security (ttk.me t4cv2) (twitter.com/_/status/638531775338123264)
#
gRegorLove I don't want to open a bridgy issue to find it's something silly on my end. :) I was pretty sure it was, though checking my received logs, I'm seeing three distinct bridgy wms within a few seconds.
#
gRegorLove So I dunno
#
gRegorLove double checks my syndication links
#
Loqi [mention] Alex Jordan liked a post that linked to a photo: "Content-Security-Policy" https://indiewebcamp.com/Content-Security-Policy https://webmention.io/notification/cHQoscUUtbFSawkjHljeBw
#
Loqi [mention] Alex Jordan reposted a post that linked to a photo: "Content-Security-Policy" https://indiewebcamp.com/Content-Security-Policy https://webmention.io/notification/TTCTAJ2-lAOCaCQmJDyPLQ
[snarfed] joined the channel
#
[snarfed] i haven't dug into this bridgy q yet, but there's background in https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/217
#
Loqi [snarfed]: tantek left you a message 1 day, 1 hour ago: skimmed OPD proposals, thinking seems pretty sound. Maybe drop 24h restriction for original posts found through existing algorithm (since those have bidirectional links incl rel-syndication link back to POSSE copy) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-30/line/1440979520024
#
[snarfed] (if i understand the q right)
#
[snarfed] huh, cool that tells work even for slack
#
[snarfed] aaronpk++
#
Loqi aaronpk has 951 karma
#
tantek odd that FB doesn't show /link-previews in posts from Bridgy Publish
benwerd joined the channel
#
kylewm gRegorLove: looking at the logs, I do see it sending those 3 wms that you saw
#
kylewm reading through the issue snarfed linked, i'm not sure if that's the expected behavior or not anymore :/
benwerd joined the channel
#
gRegorLove It's a low priority for me. I just thought something was wrong in my processing.
#
gRegorLove I posted a gh issue
#
kylewm thanks gRegorLove
#
kylewm it's possible it's been sending out a bunch of upstream wm's (on purpose) that we've all just been quietly ignoring and you're the first to notice :)
#
aaronpk i suppose that is possible. I normally glance at my raw webmention logs but there is *so much* pingback spam that it likely dwarfs any invalid webmentions from bridgy
#
gRegorLove I've known it sends upstream wm, but haven't had issues processing them until today
#
gRegorLove Here's a recent one where my own reply was sent upstream and processed OK: http://gregorlove.com/2015/08/looking-forward-to-ericagrows-and/
#
gRegorLove I actually like the upstream ones since I'm not yet (usually) sending wm to myself, and thus needing to de-duplicate the bridgy upstream from my own :)
benwerd, benwerd_ and chreekat joined the channel
#
acegiak Jeena: did you get a webmention from me for this post: https://jeena.net/comments/433
#
Loqi acegiak: GWG left you a message 1 week, 1 day ago: How do you feel about jam vs listen? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-23/line/1440351240746
#
Loqi acegiak: snarfed left you a message 1 week, 1 day ago: hey guys! semantic-linkbacks isn't finding author pictures any more for me. :/ e.g. https://snarfed.org/2015-08-20_15271 not sure if it's wordpress 4.3 or new semantic-linkbacks changes or both. any ideas? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-23/line/1440358650205
#
Loqi acegiak: snarfed left you a message 1 week, 1 day ago: (i'm on pfefferle's fork) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-23/line/1440358658777
#
Loqi acegiak: [snarfed] left you a message 1 week, 1 day ago: never mind, false alarm. css bug on my part. maybe due to changed classes http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-23/line/1440368377063
#
Loqi acegiak: GWG left you a message 1 day, 2 hours ago: New somewhat stable version of Post Kinds http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-30/line/1440980232222
#
GWG Sorry about the flood there
#
KartikPrabhu !tell tantek: completely mystified by Feedly's handling of your Atom XML titles. Sometimes the XML shows and other times not. Can't find the pattern in your source either
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
lukebrooker, chreekat and KitB joined the channel
#
KevinMarks KartikPrabhu: feedly may be doing guessing about whether to escape titles or not, because of RSS
#
KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: the thing is all titles are markedup similarly, can't find a pattern of when it escapes.
#
KevinMarks won't be markup will be contents
#
KartikPrabhu oh hmm
#
KevinMarks http://www.diveintomark.link/2004/the-myth-of-rss-compatibility
#
KevinMarks hm, that isn't escaped right
#
KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: what isn't escaped?
#
KevinMarks the feed examples
#
KartikPrabhu oh hmm
#
acegiak GWG: all cool, lol
#
GWG acegiak: You know I try to keep you posted. I worry about creating problems on your site.
#
KartikPrabhu oh I see something to do with what chars are in the content
#
KevinMarks "The RSS 2.0 specification states that may contain HTML, but there is no way for consumers to programmatically distinguish HTML from plain text (especially text that talks about markup). In other words, the content model for RSS 2.0 is Here's something that might be HTML. Or maybe not. I can't tell you, and you can't guess."
KevinMarks joined the channel
#
kevinmarks.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2015-08-31-facebook-hovercard-example-friend.png]]""
#
kevinmarks.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2015-08-31-facebook-hovercard-example-non-friend.png]]""
arlen joined the channel
#
kevinmarks.com edited /hovercard (+309) "/* Silo Examples */" (view diff)
#
kevinmarks.com edited /hovercard (-1) "/* Facebook */" (view diff)
#
@TechDistro TECH DISTRO - Tech News Hub is out! http://paper.li/TechDistro/1352888335?edition_id=49d8eba0-5065-11e5-b959-0cc47a0d1605 Stories via @sm4tt_uk @indiewebcamp @tech2eets (twitter.com/_/status/638575207448506368)
#
KevinMarks it's actually quite hard to find people you don't have mutual friends with on FB
snarfed, chreekat and lukebrooker joined the channel
#
kevinmarks.com edited /hovercard (+259) "/* Twitter hovercard fields*/" (view diff)
#
kevinmarks.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2015-08-31-facebook-hovercard-example-disjoint.png]]""
#
kevinmarks.com edited /hovercard (+514) "/* Facebook */" (view diff)
#
KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: hmm not really. tantek found me somehow
eschenal joined the channel
#
kevinmarks.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2015-07-30-google-hovercard-example.png]]""
tantek and benwerd joined the channel
#
kevinmarks.com edited /hovercard (+309) "/* Google plus */" (view diff)
#
kevinmarks.com edited /Special:Log/upload () "uploaded a new version of "[[File:2015-08-31-facebook-hovercard-example-non-friend.png]]"" (view diff)
#
kevinmarks.com edited /Special:Log/upload () "uploaded a new version of "[[File:2015-08-31-facebook-hovercard-example-non-friend.png]]"" (view diff)
#
kevinmarks.com edited /Special:Log/upload () "uploaded a new version of "[[File:2015-08-31-facebook-hovercard-example-non-friend.png]]": Reverted to version as of 05:56, 1 September 2015" (view diff)
#
KevinMarks hm, changing fiels is b0rked
#
kevinmarks.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2015-08-31-facebook-hovercard-example-mutual-friends.png]]""
#
kevinmarks.com edited /hovercard (+4) "/* Facebook */" (view diff)
#
KevinMarks any more hovercards people like?
#
KevinMarks gmail has remearkably blank ones
#
KevinMarks or maybe people i get emails from don't use gmail
#
KevinMarks thee wordpress ones mentioned seem to have vanished
#
kevinmarks.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2015-07-30-gmail-hovercard-example.png]]""
#
kevinmarks.com edited /hovercard (+292) "/* Google Plus */" (view diff)
#
KevinMarks youtube has them
#
KevinMarks is getting docuemtning happy
#
KevinMarks site deaths: http://googleappsdeveloper.blogspot.com/2015/08/deprecating-web-hosting-support-in.html
#
KevinMarks breaking links for me again
#
kevinmarks.com edited /site-deaths (+390) "/* Upcoming google drive */" (view diff)
lukebrooker joined the channel
#
kevinmarks.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2015-07-30-youtube-hovercard-example.png]]""
#
kevinmarks.com edited /hovercard (+261) "/* YouTube */" (view diff)
catsup, ttepasse and jrenslin joined the channel
#
Loqi [bridgy] Tom replied '@t @dougturner And, they already tamper your page, some others ISP tampers cookies, I'll not be surprised to see them tamper CSP headers' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Content-Security-Policy#Why_bother_if_attacker_can_hack_CSP_too (https://twitter.com/kermiite/status/638618046018527232)
#
Loqi [bridgy] Tom replied '@t @dougturner They don't have to modify your CSP: most CSP allows 'self', they can just inject a script '/att_ads.js' and catch the request' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Content-Security-Policy#Why_bother_if_attacker_can_hack_CSP_too (https://twitter.com/kermiite/status/638617749367951360)
pfefferle, j12t, friedcell, petermolnar, eschenal and loic_m joined the channel
#
Jeena |!tell acegiak hm yeah I got it according to the logs, but it doesn't show up, i'm not sure why yet, thanks for the manual mention, I'll look into it
#
acegiak Jeena, let me know if it's an issue with my markup
#
Jeena ah no, it's most probably a problem in my routing stuff
#
KevinMarks what is banner image?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "banner image" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/102F
#
KevinMarks banner image is a wide image 2:1 to 4:1 displayed as a backdrop at the top of a profile page. There is currently no agreed indieweb way of marking one up.
#
loqi.me created /banner_image (+181) "prompted by KevinMarks https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-09-01/line/1441095433942 and dfn added by KevinMarks" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok
squeakytoy2, stream7 and j12t joined the channel
#
Jeena acegiak, now it works https://jeena.net/comments/433 I didn't process stuff for the /comments url
#
Jeena I wonder how many webmentions failed because of that, perhaps I should send me an email when that happens
Pierre-O joined the channel
#
petermolnar good morning, indieweb
myfreeweb joined the channel
#
KevinMarks morning peter
#
kevinmarks.com edited /hovercard (+800) "Common Denominators" (view diff)
#
acegiak Jeena, do you send salmentions when comments get added to your site?
#
Jeena hm no I don't but perhaps I should?
j12t joined the channel
#
acegiak Jeena: Salmentions are one of my favourite things :P
lewisnyman, lewisnyman_, jrenslin, j12t and sammachin joined the channel
#
GWG acegiak: How is the salmentions code working?
sammachin1, nitot and pfefferle joined the channel
#
@elfpavlik another #d14n even! http:///conference/ ping @indiewebcamp @GETDcent @DTNConf @decentcamp @border_none we need planet style calendar! (twitter.com/_/status/638667229865844736)
j12t, LanceyWork and nedorito joined the channel
#
GWG pfefferle: I seem to see you everywhere
#
pfefferle GWG :)
#
GWG pfefferle: How do you mark up microformats on your individual posts?
#
pfefferle GWG what do you mean by "individual posts"?
#
GWG replies, likes, etc.
#
GWG I wanted to outline my Post Kinds plugin and the alternatives on the wiki.
cmhobbs joined the channel
#
GWG I keep trying to figure out why someone would use my code.
loic_m, mlncn, friedcell and j12t joined the channel
#
pfefferle GWG ah ok, I doesn't really post likes and replies yet, because I don't want to post them on my homepage...
lewisnyman joined the channel
#
myfreeweb wow https://twitter.com/stopsatgreen/status/638650195400527872 the silos' love for pushing their native mobile apps truly has no limits
#
@stopsatgreen Feeling like an unwelcome guest on http://t.co/TWRmiUPd2x. #doorslam #ugh http://www.broken-links.com/2015/09/01/feeling-like-an-unwelcome-guest-on-medium-com/ https://twitter.com/stopsatgreen/status/638650195400527872/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/638650195400527872)
tantek and j12t joined the channel
#
GWG pfefferle: I really should add that feature. Hide on main page
glennjones joined the channel
#
pfefferle GWG sure... it is too noisy
hs0ucy joined the channel
#
@glennjones Just backed https://t.co/xaUXpy1SGY hope the project makes it to its target #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/638707261402148864)
mlncn and fourtonfish joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme pops his head in
#
ben_thatmustbeme someone said my name earlier
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: I'm not handling reply chains yet. on my to do list when i get free time, i'm doing reply-context chains. so i'm going back not forward
#
ben_thatmustbeme yet anyway
snarfed, j12t and frzn joined the channel
#
@jkphl @elfpavlik Nice! Thanks for pinging! Will see if I can make it. +@indiewebcamp @GETDcent @DTNConf @decentcamp (twitter.com/_/status/638719360694099968)
#
@benwerd Interesting: PayPal introduce a personal URL that lets people pay you. Your own domain maybe not far away? http://techcrunch.com/2015/09/01/paypal-launches-paypal-me-a-simpler-way-to-request-money-using-your-own-personalized-url/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/638719880422789120)
wolftune, chreekat and [snarfed] joined the channel
#
[snarfed] pfefferle GWG: just FYI i use https://wordpress.org/plugins/ultimate-category-excluder/ to hide my replies/likes/reposts from the front page, search, etc
#
pfefferle snarfed nice, thanks!
tantek, shiflett, j12t, nitot and mdik joined the channel
#
aaronpk myfreeweb: wow that's a great writeup
#
aaronpk http://www.broken-links.com/2015/09/01/feeling-like-an-unwelcome-guest-on-medium-com/
dariusdunlap, snarfed, cleverdevil, adactio, tantek, nedsauce, todrobbins and lewisnyman joined the channel
#
tantek kylewm you said you were working on a generic Micropub Firefox sharing thing (like the one for Known but for any micropub enabled site) - how's that going? or what state did it end up in?
#
Loqi tantek: KartikPrabhu left you a message 12 hours, 52 minutes ago: completely mystified by Feedly's handling of your Atom XML titles. Sometimes the XML shows and other times not. Can't find the pattern in your source either http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-31/line/1441078004444
#
tantek pinging you again about this because check this out: https://activations-dev.allizom.org/en-US/diaspora.html
#
tantek especially the screenshot of the UI
#
tantek if there can be such an "activation" for Diaspora in general, surely we can submit one for Micropub in general
snarfed, nedorito, glennjones, iboxifoo and eschenal joined the channel
#
tantek ooh I can edit FB posts that were cross-posted from Twitter now!
#
tantek interesting change - they used to not be editable (and I'd remarked that here in the channel maybe in the past few weeks)
j12t joined the channel
#
cleverdevil hrm... brid.gy is failing to send notifications to my Known site on https...
#
tantek however FB fails to update the /link-preview when you edit the post
#
cleverdevil works fine on http :_
#
cleverdevil :P
#
tantek even if you delete the link that originally caused the /link-preview!
#
tantek alright, how do I get Bridgy Publish to post a *photo* to FB?
#
tantek a-ha u-photo
#
tantek hmm... may have to hack up something to make "pretend" photo posts
#
tantek though if a note starts with a photo embed, and is marked up as a u-photo, it's pretty much a photo post right?
#
tantek seems to be backing himself into supporting photo posts
#
KevinMarks I expanded /hovercard a lot last night - thoughts on the common denominators analysis?
davidmead joined the channel
#
tantek I think I'm going to hack /photo posts by upgrading any /note posts that start with an image URL into a photo post, and if the next thing after whitespace is also a hyperlink, going to treat that as the "original" of where the photo is hosted/posted
#
tantek well that itch came out of nowhere
#
tantek and sadly, motivated by POSSE appearance in FB
gRegorLove joined the channel
#
voxpelli KevinMarks: Considered having webaction-buttons for following within the hovercards?
#
tantek voxpelli++
#
Loqi voxpelli has 45 karma
#
KevinMarks I did mention that - I couldn't see them defined yet
#
voxpelli would be a good fit for a first place to support them at
#
tantek yes
#
KevinMarks the other obvious missing piece (apart from a friends graph, which is hard) is /banner_image - is anyone indie publishing those?
#
aaronpk ha i just realized i actually do have a banner image on my site, but never thought of it that way
#
tantek KevinMarks: I just noticed that FB hovercards of companies/schools (e.g. on someone's profile) do NOT have banner image
#
voxpelli KevinMarks: friends-graph as in X follows Y and Z which you also follow?
#
tantek you may want to look at those simpler hovercards to start with
#
tantek (serioulsy, design for without the banner image nonsense, a simpler design is always better to start with)
#
voxpelli a simpler alternative to banner image is theme color of whatever it is that the new feature both Chrome and next version of Safari supports
#
voxpelli s/of whatever/or whatever/
#
Loqi voxpelli meant to say: a simpler alternative to banner image is theme color or whatever it is that the new feature both Chrome and next version of Safari supports
#
voxpelli this: https://github.com/whatwg/meta-theme-color
#
tantek hmm - the most convenient place to do this is inside auto_link
#
voxpelli KevinMarks: see the theme color that eg. Embed.ly uses: http://embed.ly/code?url=http%3A%2F%2Fflattr.com%2F (probably extracted from the favicon)
#
tantek since it already has image URL detection logic and markup
#
tantek hmm... going to have to add a parameter to auto_link for this. not the cleanest solution, but perhaps most expedient
#
KevinMarks if you want to add those examples to /hovercard tantek, go for it
benwerd joined the channel
#
KevinMarks your fb one doesn't have a banner either
loic_m joined the channel
#
tantek briefly considers upgrading u-video and u-audio posts
wolftune joined the channel
#
tantek KevinMarks: I have never set a banner on my FB account. deliberately
chreekat joined the channel
#
tantek suddenly realizes this is going to switch a bunch of his old note posts to photo posts and is a little concerned by that.
#
aaronpk is that bad?
#
tantek change is scary :)
#
voxpelli is pondering how to import N:th levels of salmentions in a sensible way in his PostgreSQL database and fights the urge to move to a graph database instead
#
tantek aaronpk I guess we'll find out what breaks?
#
rhiaro voxpelli: go schema freeee
#
rhiaro It's so liberating
#
tantek yes
#
Loqi rhiaro: tantek left you a message 4 days, 3 hours ago: HWC Edi next week? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-09-03-homebrew-website-club http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-28/line/1440771772209
#
rhiaro oh yeah, that
#
tantek rhiaro: in two days?
#
tantek is it happening?
#
voxpelli rhiaro: I'm schema free – using Postgres JSON-columns :)
#
rhiaro oh right
#
rhiaro tantek: yeah
#
rhiaro I'll wiki it
#
voxpelli rhiaro: no real good way of fetching all mentions through JOIN:s though – would need something like a graph-database then
#
voxpelli guess same would be true for classic NoSQL-solutions like Mongo and Redis
#
rhiaro yeah, I have really enjoyed having a graph database
#
rhiaro Except when it breaks for no reason, but that's my setup, not graph databases in general
#
rhiaro And it only ever breaks on localhost, hasn't on the server yet, I can't figure out what's up
#
tantek aaronpk: also - I think I'm about to implement this tantek.com/w/Markdown#Hyperlinkedimages as part of this u-photo upgrading of notes
#
tantek but for any URL URL.png not just the first use
#
voxpelli rhiaro: I use Neo4j in relspider and like it – but it's quite a more exotic dependency that limits the use and participation of others quite severely :/ Just depending on Postgres means it's quite simple to host
#
tantek yup, auto_link + auto_space is turning into a Markdown replacement
#
rhiaro voxpelli: I use a MySQL database that is secretly a triplestore, running on standard shared hosting
#
rhiaro So uh, probably not quite what you're after
glennjones joined the channel
#
rhiaro.co.uk created /events/2015-09-03-homebrew-website-club (+2098) "Created page with "<div class="h-event vevent"> = <span class="p-name summary">Homebrew Website Club Meetup</span> = == Details == === When === <span class="dt-start dtstart"><time class="value">..."" (view diff)
#
tantek waits for rhiaro to follow the steps in http://indiewebcamp.com/Events#How_To_Add_An_Event
#
voxpelli tantek: Malmö will skip the next HWC and be back the time after that :)
#
aaronpk almost time to get Loqi to update the topic automatically from /events
#
rhiaro tbrb camerongray moredhel anm kongaloosh R2ZER0_ ^ HWC
#
Loqi is done
#
camerongray I may have a work thing this Thursday, need to check
#
rhiaro !tell _fran HWC this week :D https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-09-03-homebrew-website-club
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
rhiaro camerongray: your priorities are misaligned.
#
rhiaro Tell work you have an indieweb thing.
#
camerongray :D
#
tantek voxpelli: maybe we should keep Malmö noted in the Where section in https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-09-09-homebrew-website-club#Where but just put the comment about "skip the next HWC and be back the time after that " ?
#
tantek just so people know about the continuity
#
tantek what do you think?
#
rhiaro tbrb: I didn't accidentally sign you up this time, you can do it yourself :)
#
voxpelli tantek: sounds good :)
#
tantek local u-photo upgrading of note post appears to be working
#
tantek going to postpone implementing tantek.com/w/Markdown#Hyperlinkedimages since it's not strictly necessary for this use case
#
rhiaro.co.uk edited /Template:Homebrew_Website_Club (+54) (view diff)
#
rhiaro.co.uk edited /next-hwc (+0) "Redirected page to [[events/2015-09-03-homebrew-website-club]]" (view diff)
#
rhiaro tantek: could you update the wiki side menu to say Edinburgh?
#
tantek just one moment, deploying note->photo post upgrading hack...
#
rhiaro no rush
#
tantek and it's live! and working! http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http://tantek.com/2015/244/t1/did-entire-npsf-trackattack
#
tantek now to see if Bridgy Publish sees it
yakker joined the channel
#
tantek it does. Now to see if it looks good on FB
#
tantek can't believe I backstepped into implementing hacked photo posts due to POSSE FB presentation concerns.
#
tantek can't believe that worked. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10101862796233213&set=a.10101862796218243.1073741830.214611&type=1&permPage=1
#
tantek do I need all those params?
#
tantek looks like just the fbid is sufficient https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10101862796233213
#
tantek presto I have /photo posts
fiatjaf joined the channel
#
gRegorLove tantek++
#
tantek curious how that may impact readers. aaronpk does quill, or kylewm does woodwind do anything special with u-photo in h-entry?
#
Loqi tantek has 234 karma
#
aaronpk i believe monocle looks for the u-photo and displays it in the post
#
tantek but it's already in the post - how do you avoid displaying it twice?
#
aaronpk good question
#
aaronpk ah, it only displays the u-photo property if the URL is not present in the content
#
aaronpk same is true for audio and video URLs
#
tantek ok so you won't see any change in Quill presentation of my photo posts then since they're always in the content
#
aaronpk Monocle
lewisnyman joined the channel
#
tantek sorry yes - a-ha that indicates I should eat something
#
tantek.com edited /photo (+1203) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ apparently I have photo posts now." (view diff)
#
aaronpk lol
#
hamhut1066.com edited /events/2015-09-03-homebrew-website-club (+15) "/* Edinburgh */" (view diff)
fiatjaf joined the channel
#
tantek now I'm wondering if I should use webaction fallbacks for IG or FB for my photo posts
#
tantek realizes that "photo posts" was not even a documented itch on his wiki page.
tvn joined the channel
#
voxpelli how do one distinguish between a parsed u-* property and a parsed p-* property? Check if the parsed value looks like a url? eg. p-comment vs u-comment
#
tantek yes
#
tantek rather, what should matter is, is it a URL or not?
#
tantek not, did it come from a u-* or p-* in the source
#
tantek whether it came from a u-* or p-* is *irrelevant*
#
voxpelli ok
#
voxpelli My Salmention strategy was supposed to be: Find the URL of all included comments and parse all those URL:s to find the full metadata. But: This likely will rarely work for Brid.gy posts
#
tantek of course I had a number of "working on" items that did things with photo-like notes, so apparently I'd already conceptualized them as "photo posts" in my head even though I hadn't captured marking them up as such.
#
voxpelli As received Brid.gy posts are often marked up expose the silo URL rather than the marked up Brid.gy URL
#
tantek e.g. https://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#mobile_friendly_recent_photos_box
todrobbins joined the channel
#
voxpelli aaronpk: ideas on how to handle Brid.gy + Salmentions? Saw that you neither expose the actual Brid.gy URL in your comment markup
#
aaronpk oh hmm, I hadn't thought about that
#
aaronpk I suppose I could add an invisible u-url to the comment
snarfed joined the channel
#
voxpelli but then there would be two u-url:s – that becomes tricky as well :P
#
voxpelli then I would probably only fetch the first one and consider that to be the most correct one
#
voxpelli but for non-robots it's the least correct one :P
#
aaronpk hm, I would have to go dive back into this stuff to help more. can't really picture it right now.
#
voxpelli Brid.gy could help by auto-redirecting non-robots to the correct location perhaps
#
aaronpk huh, interesting idea
#
tantek.com edited /posts (+151) "/* Kinds of Posts */ more indie sites support /photo posts than /checkin now" (view diff)
#
tantek going to let that cassis.js change simmer for a while on my own site before I commit its changes to github
#
voxpelli aaronpk: just to be sure – typically Salmentions will be parsing the original comment URL for metadata rather than the comment presentation – right? otherwise it would be no issue
#
aaronpk I don't know if "typically" is the right word, but certainly some would
#
aaronpk for example, in our readers, kylewm chose to only parse what's on the h-feed page, whereas I fetch each post permalink and use what's on the page
#
tantek both are reasonable reader techniques
#
aaronpk i would expect a similar thing to happen for salmention handling
#
voxpelli the difference would be that what's on an h-feed is most often from a single source while comments are from external sources and can thus be spoofed
#
tantek indeed
#
tantek next logical step for my /photo posts would be to auto-POSSE *photo* posts in particular to FB, or perhaps https://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#POSSE_note_with_photos_to_Twitter
#
tantek is anyone else besides Jeena actually POSSEing their photos to Twitter?
#
tantek maybe adactio?
#
aaronpk I do sometimes, either manually or with bridgy publish
#
aaronpk s/with/manually with
#
Loqi aaronpk meant to say: I do sometimes, either manually or manually with bridgy publish
#
tantek could you add yourself with when you first started doing so to the IndieWeb Examples: subsection there? https://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#POSSE_note_with_photos_to_Twitter
#
tantek yup, adactio is doing it
#
aaronpk hmm
#
tantek e.g. https://adactio.com/notes/9455
#
aaronpk interesting, looks like I actually mostly post screenshots on twitter rather than photos
#
tantek aaronpk: oh hey I found this one (actual photo), POSSEd with img to Twitter! http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/05/06/3/iiw-indieweb
#
tantek looks like adactio started doing that about a month after you! https://adactio.com/notes/7021
#
aaronpk i think that's the first!
#
aaronparecki.com edited /Twitter (+147) "/* POSSE note with photos to Twitter */" (view diff)
#
Jeena design, design, a kingdom for a designer who would make my website nice to look at and easy to use!
#
snarfed design++
#
Loqi design has 1 karma
#
tantek design++
#
Loqi design has 2 karma
#
tantek needs to update http://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#Post_Types
#
Jeena I'm adding a header image to my events and I'd like the title to be on top of this image, but then it is almost impossible to make it pop out so it's easy to read on any background. Right now I have it like this https://jeena.net/s/latest.png but as you can see it's rather difficult to see on the white shirt of this woman in the background
#
tantek also needs to study how others are handling presenting photos that are Instagram --PESOS--> indie --POSSE--> FB
#
aaronpk hm now i'm wondering if I can break out the monocle feed fetching and parsing into Lambda tasks
#
aaronpk the Node.js mf2 parser is pretty solid right?
#
Jeena λ-tasks
#
tantek aaronpk: it may be the most up to date now, including implementations of all the resolved issues and brainstorms
#
tantek glennjones++ has been doing a great job
#
Loqi glennjones has 11 karma
#
aaronpk nice
#
tantek does Bridgy Publish support POSSEing *photo* posts to Twitter? snarfed, kylewm (unclear from the docs at https://www.brid.gy/about#picture it that's only supported for FB, or Twitter too)
davidmead joined the channel
#
aaronpk yeah I do that sometimes
#
tantek what really? bridgy publish photos to Twitter?
#
aaronpk yeah
#
tantek why only sometimes?
#
aaronpk i don't often want to post my photos on twitter
#
tantek different audience?
#
aaronpk yeah
#
snarfed thank emmak for bridgy publish twitter photo support!
#
tantek in that case then I have to decide if I want to code that support into my existing Twitter POSSE code, or have a switch and use Bridgy for photo posts
#
tantek BTW - everyone noticed that Instagram now supports non-square photo posting right?
#
tantek It makes it much more appealing as a photo posting "client".
#
aaronpk oh yeah, haven't tried it yet tho
#
tantek it works really well
#
aaronpk huh I don't understand, does it just not fill in the top/sides with black now? I can't really tell what it's going to do with a photo that doesn't fill the frame
#
tantek you haven't seen other people posting?
#
tantek landscape: it shrinks the photo to fit horizontally, and then just happens to be shorter vertically
#
aaronpk you mean watching other people using their phones? no
#
tantek portrait: it just doesn't crop the photo, and it looks vertically longer
#
tantek no I mean viewing your followings stream in IG
#
aaronpk huh, right now when I load a photo in the app it snaps it to square, zooming in. it's not clear what happens when I "zoom out" on the photo
#
tantek tap the icon in the lower left corner of the photo with the < > arrows
#
aaronpk looks like everything in my feed is still square too
#
tantek no the photo I just posted is not square
#
aaronpk oh yeah! nearly square tho, not the normal landscape proportion i was expecting
#
kongaloosh.com edited /events/2015-09-03-homebrew-website-club (+17) "/* Edinburgh */" (view diff)
#
aaronpk well I guess if I never knew Instagram used to force everything to be square, then this interface makes sense
#
tantek sure - I cropped it in IG to what I wanted
#
Kongaloosh rhiaro: can I be robot-kongaloosh again for the next HWC?
#
tantek that's the point, you now have the freedom to crop however you want
#
aaronpk that's much better
#
rhiaro Kongaloosh: you can be whatever you want to be, on the indieweb.
#
tantek hence it makes it a much nicer photo posting client in that regard (assuming you treat their server and /ownyourgram as part of the "client" ;) )
#
KevinMarks except the api still pads to square, so pestagram doesn't see it
#
Kongaloosh rhiaro: http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/a-look-at-social-media-themed-intranets/images/f/f7/Keyboard_surfing_the_internet.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20131203051743
#
Kongaloosh I'm so ready.
#
aaronpk yeah! that was always annoying for me, i would sometimes use an app to add bars on the top/bottom but then would go and replace the photo that ownyourgram sent to my site
#
tantek exactly! and yeah I deleted two apps when they added non-square photo support. :)
lewisnyman joined the channel
#
tantek KevinMarks, what would it take for pestagram to do original post discovery? ;)
#
aaronpk example: http://aaron.pk/n4Wp1 https://instagram.com/p/pzlr3sjckz/
#
tantek "original" :)
#
tantek in fact this is probably a good question for readers in general,
#
tantek how to discover an indie photo from an instagram photo that was (possibly) posted via /ownyourgram
#
aaronpk this is the same thing bridgy has to do
#
tantek readers, reply-contexts etc. could all use that to prefer the indie photo
#
tantek hmm - wondering if this algorithm needs to be renamed / expanded to indie post discovery
#
tantek and made to work with both POSSE and PESOS models
#
tantek so that no matter how the content got to your personal site, other consuming code would prefer the copy on your site, not any silo copy
#
aaronpk I don't think the distinction is necessary
#
tantek huh?
#
aaronpk "indie post discovery" vs "original post discovery"
#
aaronpk the fact that I use ownyourgram to get the photo from instagram to my site is plumbing
#
aaronpk looking at the photo on my site it appears as though I posse'd to instagram, which is the intent
#
tantek two things: 1. "original post" should still mean something (and we should still keep pushing to POSSE over PESOS as much as possible.
#
tantek 2. "indie post discovery" puts the emphasis on indie, which helps make it clear that indieweb posts are preferred over silos posts in general
scor and snarfed joined the channel
#
tantek wonders when snarfed is going to use a cookie hack to post comments on IG ;)
#
tantek (via Bridgy)
#
KevinMarks https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xfa1/t51.2885-15/s640x640/sh0.08/e35/11326049_1603898359859488_1062516886_n.jpg is the api link for your photo
#
snarfed speaking of original post discovery, apologies if this is already in your queues, but aaronpk tantek KevinMarks kylewm KartikPrabhu: i think we have a tentative plan for revamping bridgy's behavior for handling POSSE vs non POSSE posts and responses: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/51#issuecomment-136792750
#
snarfed mind reviewing when you get a chance?
cleverdevil joined the channel
#
snarfed and heh tantek. thanks for the vote of confidence w/cookies!
#
tantek snarfed++ for Bridgy Publish photos to Facebook support, especially using/depending-on u-photo in the source, thus "forcing" me to add support for explicit "photo" posts on my site!
#
Loqi snarfed has 134 karma
snarfed1 joined the channel
#
snarfed1 aww thanks!
#
snarfed1 i definitely don't plan to pollute bridgy with cookie support. it'll make silos *very* unhappy, so i want to compartmentalize that ire
#
snarfed1 plus i comment on IG maybe once a month or so
#
tantek ah right, you're using cookies for all the feed reading stuff right?
#
tantek passive use of cookies
#
tantek not active posting
#
snarfed1 right
#
snarfed1 but regardless, very very not kosher
#
tantek less frowned upon (detectable?) for passive reading
#
snarfed1 nah. cookies aren't really compartmentalized by capability
#
snarfed1 in general, once i have it, i can do anything i want as you
snarfed1 joined the channel
#
cleverdevil so, who is the person who does most of the work on bridgy?
#
cleverdevil would love to get help troubleshooting an issue.
#
KartikPrabhu that would be snarfed and kylewm
#
@jordan_web @mattgemmell Have you looked at the indieweb opensource solution @withknown, up to 200 people per site, https://withknown.com/opensource/ (twitter.com/_/status/638797104618586112)
ehlovader, martinBrown, gRegorLove, KitB, JasonO, M-kegan and XgF joined the channel
#
cleverdevil cool, thanks KartikPrabhu.
#
snarfed1 cleverdevil: ssl woes?
#
cleverdevil yep!
#
cleverdevil I may be doing something dumb, of course :)
#
snarfed1 whee
snarfed joined the channel
#
cleverdevil I am happy to provide examples, if needed!
#
snarfed sorry, back. i hate irc.
#
cleverdevil heh, no worries.
#
snarfed bridgy has no bugs. must be your hardware!
#
snarfed (kidding!)
#
snarfed an example and description would be great
#
cleverdevil cool
#
cleverdevil hah
#
cleverdevil tl;dr - if I make a post on my Known site and it is detected by bridgy on Facebook or Twitter with an https:// URI, things fail.
#
cleverdevil if it uses http://, everything works.
#
cleverdevil specific example -> https://www.facebook.com/10101418101899349/posts/10101448030806579
#
snarfed got it, i'll look
#
cleverdevil actually, it says "failed" in bridgy but it looks like it worked :/
#
cleverdevil this is my bridgy -> https://www.brid.gy/facebook/10101418101899349#
#
cleverdevil looks like it started working
#
cleverdevil so, maybe resolved :)
#
snarfed those urls differ by more than just ssl
#
snarfed first part of path is year vs facebook id
#
cleverdevil yeah, I just noticed that too... weird...
#
snarfed if you click on the X minutes ago link, the last line of the log shows the 400 from your site
#
snarfed "error_text': u'The target page https://cleverdevil.io/10101859667632951/laying-in-bed-with-the-entire-family-after-a-tough does not exist."
#
snarfed so the q is where we get that url from
#
cleverdevil nods
#
snarfed ok, log of your last h-feed fetch is https://www.brid.gy/log?start_time=1441132821&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyIwsSDEZhY2Vib29rUGFnZSIRMTAxMDE0MTgxMDE4OTkzNDkM
#
snarfed i don't see those urls there
loic_m joined the channel
#
snarfed ahhhh i bet this is https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/368
shiflett joined the channel
#
snarfed short answer: recurring facebook bug :/
#
snarfed kylewm can commiserate with you
#
cleverdevil :)
#
cleverdevil good to know.
gRegorLove, KitB, JasonO, M-kegan and XgF joined the channel
#
snarfed cleverdevil: while you're here, any more interest in goodreads posse/backfeed?
#
cleverdevil yah, I'd *love* to get it working... been busy lately (house undergoing renovations, kids first day of school, work, etc.)
#
snarfed definitely understood
#
cleverdevil I did write an `h-review` focused Known plugin, tho
#
snarfed i saw!
#
cleverdevil been doing posts, as well.
#
cleverdevil I have some bugs (syndication doesn't work, for some reason)
#
cleverdevil I've noticed that the Known community is pretty small :)
#
cleverdevil not many devs working on it yet.
#
cleverdevil I'm working with my employer a bit (DreamHost) to see if we can get some attention shined on Known, though.
#
snarfed eh its community is at least medium sized
#
snarfed dozens of contributors, which is something
#
cleverdevil frankly, I'd like to see us get more involved in the IndieWeb in general!
#
snarfed but not wordpress sized, true
#
snarfed of course
#
snarfed !
#
cleverdevil yeah, I am not complaining, just trying to see how we can do more :)
#
snarfed dreamhost integration would be a huge bump
#
cleverdevil for context, DreamHost has over 700,000 installs of WordPress.
#
cleverdevil its in a whole other world.
#
snarfed definitely
#
cleverdevil but, I *really* like Known.
#
cleverdevil such a great foundation, and good idea.
#
snarfed yeah!
#
snarfed honestly i think too many of us fall into the hole of building our own CMSes and never climb back out to work on *anything* else
#
cleverdevil hah, ironically that's exactly the situation I was in.
#
snarfed there are so many CMSes, including so many good ones, i could never justify making yet another just for myself
#
cleverdevil prepping to implement my own.
#
snarfed oh boy
#
cleverdevil :D
#
cleverdevil then I realized: 1. I don't have the time and 2. it was necessary
#
cleverdevil I also discovered Known, which led me to IndieWeb as well.
#
snarfed cleverdevil++ glad to hearr it
#
tantek snarfed, I disagree with your assertion of "so many good ones". in fact, quite the contrary, nearly all of them suck at UI/UX compared to silos.
#
KartikPrabhu tbh CMS is what is making blogging harder than tweetering
#
Loqi cleverdevil has 4 karma
#
cleverdevil there are lots of CMSes for sure.
#
tantek the reason to write your own CMS is: 1. scratch your own itches, 2. make it as awesome / beautiful or more than any silo you currently use
#
cleverdevil not lots of good ones :)
#
tantek if you're not doing those two, then yes, stop writing your own CMS and use an existing one
wolftune joined the channel
#
tantek cleverdevil: I challenge you to provide examples of "good" CMSes, besides say /Known and /WordPress :)
#
snarfed tantek: those are all good pros. the con is the amount of duplicated effort you have to expend to get even a *barely* decent CMS, which could arguably be better spent working on tools that more people can use
#
cleverdevil tantek: I don't hate Ghost... ;)
#
snarfed CMS reuse does happen, but much less than tools like quill, bridgy, etc
#
tantek (and even WordPress is lacking in UI/UX, however it makes up a lot with community etc.)
#
cleverdevil tantek: and I like the idea of most of the static ones, too.
#
KartikPrabhu are static site generators considered CMSs?
#
snarfed i'm all for having lots of CMSes! i just think we lack other tools way worse than we lack CMSes (if we do at all)
#
tantek snarfed, ironically, a "barely decent" CMS may be exactly what more people can use - not these overdesigned behemoths that require nasty sysadmin work and have tons of regular security exploits
#
cleverdevil ^^
#
cleverdevil that's my issue.
#
cleverdevil I didn't want something mind-numbingly complex and overly "powerful."
#
tantek snarfed: as long as people are posting to silos *instead of* posting to their own site, we lack good CMSs
#
KartikPrabhu what is CMS?
#
tantek that's the measure
#
snarfed sure, point taken, but you know what i mean. barely decent meaning barely functional enough, not lightweight
#
Loqi A content management system (often abbreviated as CMS) is software used to create, enter, edit, update, delete content on a website, even on indieweb sites https://indiewebcamp.com/cms
#
tantek if your CMS isn't good enough to change your behavior to post to your own site first / instead of a silo, then your CMS is not good
#
tantek that's the bar
#
snarfed you're conflating sociology with product design
#
KartikPrabhu so if one uses micropub to create, edit, delete etc... does that make micropub a CMS?
#
tantek not at all! usability and desire are the essential points of product design!
#
snarfed sure, the majority of people use silos. i guarantee they didn't evaluate CMSes first and deliberately choose to use silos instead.
#
tantek snarfed: I'm talking about people who already have their own site
#
tantek and likely made some CMS choice in the past
#
tantek plenty of "old school" bloggers that tweet but fail to post notes on their own site
#
tantek no need to name names, because, nearly all of them are like that
#
snarfed sure. CMSes can definitely learn from modern silo UX. absolutely. still, imho it's often a better use of effort to join and improve an existing CMS like known than build your own from scratch
#
tantek that's a much better way of putting it
#
KartikPrabhu snarfed: tantek: I don't think you are really disagreeing. Some people should build better CMS/tools for indieweb, but most can just contribute/re-use the,
#
tantek OTOH benwerd has expressed fear that people here would abandon their own CMS and just contribute to Known
#
tantek as in, he sees the value in diversity
#
snarfed of course!
#
snarfed i just think we're probably too far on that side of the spectrum
#
tantek I believe this was expressed when aaronpk threatened to use Known instead of p3k ;) (it was a while ago)
#
snarfed i expect most of the eng hours in this community are spent on CMSes with very small installed bases, many with just one user, and *way* fewer eng hours on tools that more people are actually *likely* to use
#
tantek snarfed: people here have built amazing things because they started with the freedom and low learningcurve of their own CMS
#
snarfed saddens me
#
snarfed yeah that's also a good point. if you deliberately use building your own CMS as a way to learn, or have fun, then sure
#
tantek I think if you're looking at installed base, you're focusing on the wrong priority
#
aaronpk my approach has been to build things into libraries that others can use
#
snarfed decoupling++
#
aaronpk for example Known is using one of my libraries!
#
Loqi decoupling has 1 karma
#
tantek yes, same here
#
aaronpk so hey I've contributed to Known too :)
#
KartikPrabhu decoupling++
#
Loqi decoupling has 2 karma
#
tantek I'm using Falcon both to develop what I want (without any of the baggage of other CMSs), and as a generator of useful utility functions for others to use
#
tantek snarfed: I say that more CMSs means more ways to rapidly iterate with UI
#
tantek and right now, catching up in UI/UX is the #1 thing we're behind on compared to silos
#
snarfed eh you can iterate on a CMS's UI whether or not you started it yourself
#
tantek supposedly, but we haven't seen a lot of evidence of that
#
KartikPrabhu snarfed: errr not if the CMS is very bloated which is always the case
#
tantek witness how hard it's been for WordPress plugins to iterate on UI/UX
#
tantek as compared to all the random 1-3 user CMSs here
#
snarfed "WordPress is bloated" may be true, but is not an argument to build your own CMS
#
tantek it absolutely is. along with security target etc.
#
tantek and all the nonsense that GWG has had to hassle with in terms of where they put hfeed vs hentry class names etc.
#
tantek they don't even have proper theme / CMS engine separation
#
KartikPrabhu oh yeah that ^
#
tantek plus - speed
#
cleverdevil (afk on a call)
#
KartikPrabhu that is why I did not use Wordpress for my site
[aaronpk] joined the channel
#
[aaronpk] Remember when you choose a CMS, you're not only choosing a technology, you're also choosing a community
#
snarfed this is so silly. sure, "WordPress is bad and slow," but that does not in any way imply "you have to build your own for it to be good"
#
tantek so yes, "bloat" is good enough reason to say no to an existing CMS
#
tantek it does in total. if all alternatives are bad and slow then yes you have to build your own to be good and fast.
#
snarfed aaronpk++ yes! that's the single biggest reason i chose WP. i wanted to leverage the millions of hrs other people had invested, not invest them myself
#
Loqi aaronpk has 952 karma
#
tantek snarfed, in GWG's case the WordPress "community" has been fighting his efforts to improve WordPress
#
snarfed tantek: you tend to feel very black and white about these things. i'm usually more shades of gray.
#
aaronpk ironically, I say that to point out the reason I *didn't* choose wordpress
#
aaronpk which GWG is demonstrating again exactly why I didn't
#
tantek snarfed, if these existing communities were going to actually focus on silo parity or outdoing silos, they would have
#
tantek that's my summary dismissal of your argument
#
tantek also, the existing "communities" around a single CMS tend to be /monoculture laden
#
snarfed again, i'm not just talking about the big CMSes, i'm talking about all of ours
#
tantek ok that's a better point
#
snarfed i mostly want *us* to have more 5-10 user (and 2-3 developer!) CMSes instead of the status quo of one user/developer
#
tantek which gets back to needing to update /projects to make that more clear - what CMS options are there for active (re)use and contribution
#
tantek that's a much more reasonable goal / assertion. small nimble teams.
#
KartikPrabhu snarfed: yes agreed on that part. Self-made sites tend to be stuck in an un-managed code rut
#
snarfed *teams* being the operative word
#
aaronpk I've seen other projects do a decent job of "recruiting" help, by making it clear what needs working on and what kind of skills are required
#
aaronpk afaik none of the 1-person CMSs here make it easy to contribute to them
#
tantek Redwind
#
snarfed yup. one of very few exceptions
#
tantek and of course without an updated /projects page it's hard to test such assertions "none of the 1-person CMSs", "one of very few exceptions" :/
#
KartikPrabhu should work on polishing some /Bundle stuff to make it open source
#
tantek KartikPrabhu++
#
Loqi KartikPrabhu has 116 karma
#
snarfed another way to phrase this is the question i posed to tantek at the first HWC. we had this same debate (lightly), and he agreed not everyone should have to build their own CMS. "so if not, then the question is, how many do we want? dozens? hundreds? thousands?"
#
tantek pretty sure I said thousands
#
tantek along the line of, let a thousand CMSs bloom
todrobbins joined the channel
#
snarfed sure. especially when there are millions/billions of indieweb users
#
tantek of course that's intended worldwide, across language, cultures etc.
#
snarfed the right number is probably a fraction though. so not thousands right now
#
tantek snarfed, one good measure I watch are the # of micropub implementations
#
snarfed whatever the right fraction is, i think we have a higher fraction now than we ideally want
#
tantek because that's an interesting bar of difficulty vs feature utility
#
snarfed anyway. on an unrelated note, any thoughts on https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/51#issuecomment-136792750 ?
#
tantek snarfed: have it open in a tab :)
#
snarfed i want to tackle it soon, but not until i get a few thumbs ups
#
snarfed ok
#
tantek snarfed, here's a # for you - 18 micropub server implementations http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#IndieWeb_Examples
#
tantek since I know you like metrics :)
#
snarfed so estimate as many as ~30 due to underreporting
#
snarfed and estimate, say, ~5k indieweb sites?
#
tantek hmm perhaps that's a good place to start as far as reseeding /projects
#
snarfed so ~1:100 CMS:user ratio
#
tantek snarfed, do you count withknown.com as one site? or all subdomains?
#
snarfed users, not top level domains
#
tantek snarfed, sure, that mean isn't bad, but the median is bad
#
tantek (per your criteria)
#
tantek I wonder if Quill keeps aggregate stats on which CMSs are used how often
#
snarfed 1:100 actually isn't bad. maybe that's good for me to keep in mind. we're the vocal/active minority here. the fraction of active users here who have their own CMS is more like 1:2, which is way different and doesn't represent all indieweb users.
#
snarfed that's comforting. good to remember.
#
tantek supporting your second user is a huge task
#
tantek and for most people, is not an itch, so it's not surprising that it's so low
#
aaronpk tantek: i'm not sure how i'd know which cms someone is using
#
tantek oh I bet you could use some heuristics on their home page ;)
#
aaronpk sounds like a lot of work
#
tantek oh dear, I just realized I can now person-tag the photo that I POSSEd to FB
#
tantek is teetering on the edge of another massive rabbithole
eschenal joined the channel
#
snarfed my kingdom for https://snarfed.org/indie-stats ! :P
#
tantek um, snarfed,kylewm does Bridgy Publish of photos (to FB or Twitter) support propagating person-tags into the POSSE copy?
#
snarfed nope, no person tag support
#
snarfed want to contribute it? happy to help you ramp up! :P
#
tantek then I'd have to come up with a way to person-tag my photo posts on my site, and then have Bridgy Publish parse that, and then we'd have to see if FB API even allowed specifying person-tags in a photo post
#
kylewm the FB API mostly doesn't support person tagging
#
kylewm I think the only thing you can tag are check-ins
#
tantek separately - does Bridgy Publish to FB do *updates* ? e.g. if I Bridgy Publish a permalink from my site to FB, and the permalink already has a u-syndication link to a FB post, is Bridgy Publish smart enough to recognize that and try to *update* the FB POSSE copy instead of creating a new POSSE copy?
#
kylewm I was at place X wtih so-and-so
#
tantek kylewm: why not here is photo X with so-and-so?
#
snarfed um it looks like it supports tagging fine https://developers.facebook.com/docs/graph-api/reference/v2.4/user/feed#pubfields
#
tantek is slipping into the rabbithole
#
snarfed tantek: no sorry no update support
#
kylewm snarfed points to the FB documentation as if it has any bearing on reality
#
snarfed lol
#
aaronpk lolol
#
tantek snarfed: does update support make sense to you? or too much complexity
#
snarfed no, be fair, i've found their docs about API calls to be pretty accurate
#
tantek Bridgy Publish -> Bridgy Edit
#
snarfed tantek: sure, update is straightforward
#
snarfed want to contribute it? happy to help you ramp up! :P
#
tantek wow ok I should file that as an issue at least to start
#
tantek Bridgy Publish POSSE CRUD
#
kylewm tantek: snarfed: more info here, although hopefully it is out of date and FB support is better now! http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE_to_Facebook#Mention_Tagging
#
snarfed tantek: already there https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/84
#
kylewm snarfed: I generally find their API documentation to be really encouraging and then when I actually try to make calls, it returns little or no data
#
snarfed heh fair. eveything is modulo permissions, which are complicated
#
tantek does Bridgy Publish to FB support propagating location information from the original post to the FB POSSE copy?
#
snarfed fields for writes are a bit more straightforward
#
tantek like the location of a photograph?
#
snarfed tantek: not yet
#
aaronpk that seems not straightforward
#
tantek is coming up with feature requests faster than he can file issues
#
aaronpk how would you find the FB version of a venue?
#
snarfed yup that's the hard part
#
aaronpk the facebook venue database is *horrible*
#
snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/317
#
snarfed tantek: they're all already there :P
#
snarfed feel free to search!
#
tantek unless your own /venue URLs already had venue equivalent URLs for Foursquare, FB etc.
#
tantek the Bridgy Publish could just look them up that way
#
aaronpk yeah that would work fine
#
aaronpk course then the challenge is making a non-insane UI for creating that original post
#
tantek oh dear, I really don't need to be implementing *another* post type today
#
tantek aaronpk: it's ok, I'm sticking with my insane "just add the markup" UI for now
#
tantek so that's not a challenge for me :P
#
aaronpk haha
cleverdevil joined the channel
#
tantek aaronpk - the short answer is - the UI for creating those venues on your own site is called: import your Foursquare and FB checkin history
#
tantek that should handle the 90% case
#
cleverdevil de-lurks.
#
aaronpk heh
#
tantek then there are new venues
#
tantek and now we're talking about an interesting UI problem
#
cleverdevil as a web host, I would not love a world with thousands of CMSess :)
#
cleverdevil super hard to support!
#
KartikPrabhu there already are thousands of CMSs just not indieweb ones
#
cleverdevil true.
#
tantek the world already has thousands, you're just not aware of them ;)
#
tantek (neither are any of us here I'd expect, I'm merely hypothesizing based on how often people scratch that itch)
#
tantek "dark CMSs"
#
cleverdevil I (personally) don't see a problem with a world with a dominant group of 3-5 CMSes, as long as they are the right ones.
#
KartikPrabhu "right" ones :P
#
cleverdevil with probably thousands of black hole CMSes filling the gaps.
#
tantek lol at both 3-5 and framing assumption of "the right"
#
cleverdevil ;)
#
cleverdevil its a fair LOL
#
cleverdevil there is no right and wrong
#
cleverdevil what I really mean is that there are only so many use cases, and I expect that a smaller number of CMSes will gather around those use cases
#
cleverdevil and just evolve into larger, more dominant user bases
#
cleverdevil which I don't have an issue with.
#
tantek to tag people in a FB post via their API, the post must also have a location according to https://developers.facebook.com/docs/graph-api/reference/v2.4/user/feed#pubfields "tags - Comma-separated list of user IDs of people tagged in this post. You cannot specify this field without also specifying a place."
#
KartikPrabhu not really. there are thousands of use-cases. Look at the repo of Wordpress plugins
#
tantek thus to propagate people-tags to a FB POSSE copy, you must first propagate location information
#
cleverdevil 80% of people will be served just fine with those dominant CMSes
#
cleverdevil KartikPrabhu: yes, but WP is a single CMS that handles a *bunch* of use cases.
#
aaronpk did you know there's a wordpress plugin that turns wordpress into a full-blown library checkout system?
#
tantek thus you must have a way for Bridgy to find the location on POSSE destination
#
KartikPrabhu and hence has become bloated
#
cleverdevil aaronpk: there are WP plugins for damn near everything :)
#
tantek thus the straw proposal to use /venue posts with silo equivalent URLs
#
snarfed kylewm++ damn he called the people-tag checkin limitation. that's it, he's officially the lead bridgy maintainer now
#
Loqi kylewm has 227 karma
#
snarfed especially the facebook part :P
#
snarfed ducks
#
aaronpk hehehe
#
tantek snarfed: not quite, it could be that just "place" field is needed, not that it be a checkin post
#
tantek is trying to be optimistic
#
tantek despite knowing evidence to the contrary WRT FB API
#
tantek snarfed, coincidentally, kylewm is the only active person here who has posted venue posts http://indiewebcamp.com/venues#Kyle_Mahan
#
tantek I'm beginning to suspect he's already figured all this out.
#
tantek is a collection of venue posts just a subset of an address book?
#
kylewm hahaha
#
kylewm importantly i haven't ever possed a venue
#
tantek no need to because most venues on most silos already have a permalink - no need to duplicate
#
tantek rather, discovering that silo venue permalink is the key
#
kylewm that's what i mean, sorry, i've not possed a check-in to a venue, only ever lat/long coordinates (to twitter)
#
tantek oh you haven't POSSEd checkins to Foursquare? many others have: http://indiewebcamp.com/checkin#IndieWeb_Examples
#
kylewm i've never used foursquare actually
#
tantek then no need
#
aaronpk is planning to PESOS from foursquare to avoid needing to build a checkin UI and because it's fun to see the feedback from foursquare
#
tantek that's another way to get venue permalinks from a silo
#
tantek ownyoursquare?
#
kylewm that sounds like https://snarfed.org/indie-checkin-flow
djwesto joined the channel
#
snarfed even implemented in https://github.com/snarfed/ownyourcheckin
#
tantek uh oh what about Bridgy backfeed? does it support backfeeding of when people *on the silo* person-tag a photo post POSSE copy there?!?
#
snarfed sorry you lost me
#
tantek some on FB tags my photo FB POSSE copy with people in the photo
#
tantek s/some on/someone on
#
Loqi tantek meant to say: someone on FB tags my photo FB POSSE copy with people in the photo
#
snarfed you want it to backfeed the tags?
#
tantek I'd expect Bridgy to notice that, as it would a like or a comment on the photo FB POSSE copy, and post a tag-of response accordingly
#
tantek yes of course! backfeed all the responses!
#
snarfed ok. no, not yet.
#
aaronpk http://meme.loqi.me/4czSc5cC.jpg
#
snarfed man i really really want to see another backfeed implementation
#
aaronpk did someone come up with a name for a p3k one?
#
snarfed just to see what differences crop up
#
KartikPrabhu aaronpk: p3k does backfeeD?
#
aaronpk no no, like if I made a backfeed service for p3k
#
aaronpk definitely does not right now
#
KartikPrabhu how about backf3d :P
#
snarfed built into CMS is definitely the ideal way. avoids a lot of the hard parts. only drawback is it limits adoption.
#
aaronpk haha
#
kylewm KartikPrabhu++
#
Loqi KartikPrabhu has 117 karma
#
aaronpk i was thinking more along the lines of the theme of the rest of the p3k names but sure
#
KartikPrabhu what's the theme for rest of p3k names?
#
KartikPrabhu what is p3k?
#
Loqi pзk (pronounced "peek") is the name of the software that runs aaronparecki.com and indiewebcat.com https://indiewebcamp.com/p3k
#
aaronpk hmm that needs updating
#
tantek what is the p3k naming convention?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "p3k naming convention" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/102G
#
kylewm common nouns that sound like they could be the name of an indie band or startup
#
KartikPrabhu haha!
#
aaronpk haha no
#
kylewm You guys going to the city to see Switchboard at The Quill tonight?
#
tantek more steampunky right?
#
KartikPrabhu kylewm: no. will be hanging at the Monocole instead
#
aaronparecki.com created /p3k_naming_convention (+371) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-09-01/line/1441141165432" (view diff)
#
aaronpk there you go
#
KartikPrabhu backfeed could be Telegram
#
aaronpk KartikPrabhu++
#
Loqi KartikPrabhu has 118 karma
#
tantek or radar?
#
tantek er, sonar?
#
KartikPrabhu Sonar can be sound/music thingie
#
tantek is this for POSSE or backfeed?
#
tantek or do they need separate names for p3k?
#
KartikPrabhu IMO anything talking to a silo can be the same lib
nitot joined the channel
#
tantek welcome back nitot !
#
aaronpk was just trying to come up with a name for my avatar archive service that's storing copies of avatars for webmention.io...
#
aaronpk .. thought to myself "oh hey! how about Face Book!"
#
aaronpk *headdesk*
#
tantek photobooth
#
KartikPrabhu lol
#
KartikPrabhu Polaroid
#
KartikPrabhu but that maybe TM
#
aaronpk preferably pre-1900s tech
#
snarfed daguerreotype
#
tantek portrait
#
KartikPrabhu aaronpk: "Obscura" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camera_obscura
#
snarfed rolls off the tongue
#
snarfed and fingers
#
aaronpk lol
#
tantek portraits used to be painted - so that's pre-1900s :)
#
aaronpk i'm debating making it also archive full post content, but not sure if that's going to be a different service/component
#
tantek that would be "scribe" ;)
#
KartikPrabhu yup totally
#
aaronpk nice
benwerd joined the channel
#
aaronparecki.com edited /p3k_naming_convention (+208) (view diff)
#
aaronpk there we go
#
aaronpk now there is a place for them ^
lukebrooker and snarfed joined the channel
#
Jeena Now my events index page is finally starting looking like something I would wanna link from the top navigation
#
Jeena https://jeena.net/events/
#
aaronpk ooh nice
#
KevinMarks hacks on hovercard some more, realises how oddly nested everyone's h-* things are
#
aaronpk don't forget about people who have their h-cards on a different page ;-)
#
tantek it shouldn't matter how oddly nested everyone's h-* things are. what challenges are you finding beyond representative h-card?
#
tantek Jeena++ your events page ROCKS! \m/
#
Loqi Jeena has 23 karma
#
Jeena thanks :)
#
KevinMarks you putting your h-entry inside your h-feed inside your h-card
#
KevinMarks braces himself for rewriting this recursively
#
tantek KevinMarks: that has nothing to do with representative h-card :P
#
KevinMarks it has lots to do with trying to replicate silo hovercard ux
#
cleverdevil pretty cool, Jeena :)
#
tantek what does a plumbing complaint (putting ... inside ... markup) have to do with silo hovercard ux?!?
#
jrenslin how about going to the start page of the given website (So e.g. "http://example.com/post/1" -> "http://example.com") and searching for a representative h-card there?
#
moredhel thx rhiaro, I have added myself, see you thursday (if not before)
#
tantek and Jeena, thanks to you and benwerd we now have two examples of "events" pages, and nowhere to document them, because we already use /Events to mean an actual collection of events, not a page about "events" pages
#
tantek jrenslin: you don't need to go to "the start page", the /authorship algorithm already provides a way to go from a post permalink to an author's URL
#
Jeena /EventsIndex!
#
tantek or /events-stream ?
#
tantek e.g. http://werd.io/content/events is definitely an events stream, shown in reverse chronological order of when the events were created
#
tantek Jeena - what order are you displaying your events? It looks ordered by calendar date (soonest first) and then past events are most recent first
#
aaronpk has that too tho not as pretty as Jeena's http://aaronparecki.com/events
#
Jeena yes tantek exactly like that
#
tantek aaronpk: haha I looked for yours at http://aaronparecki.com/events/ but just got a 404 (note trailing slash) ;)
#
aaronpk heh
#
aaronpk my new site handles that better
#
tantek mumbles something about a trailing slash indicating a collection like a folder
#
aaronpk still doesn't believe in trailing slashes
#
tantek doesn't blame him.
#
tantek ok so three examples
#
tantek aaronpk: are yours ordered purely by most recent first?
#
aaronpk yeah
#
aaronpk which also means if there's a far-future event it will be "stuck" to the top for a while
#
tantek yeah
#
tantek aaronpk do you think of that page as a collection, an indiex, or a stream?
#
aaronpk currently I think of it as a stream just like http://aaronparecki.com/articles http://aaronparecki.com/notes etc
#
aaronpk however I am shifting that mindset towards thinking of it more as a collection
#
aaronpk mostly due to the issues with post types
lewisnyman joined the channel
#
tantek right, the big distinction here is that AFAIK no one of the examples thinks of theirs as a 'calendar'
#
aaronpk for example, right now there is no way to see a stream of *all* my photos, only non-reply photos. that is one of the downsides of my current explicit post type architecture
#
Jeena I was thinking of implementing it like that but then the calendar would be mostly empty
#
tantek aaronpk yeah I just violated my shorthand post type characters by deploying photo posts as among the "t" posts
#
aaronpk so I am switching it so that everything is a collection, and posts can live in one or more collections. they wil be dominated by obvious post type, but there will definitely be some overlap
#
tantek Jeena: calendars SHOULD be mostly empty
#
aaronpk i think calendar views are rarely actually useful
#
tantek scheduling something every day is not actually healthy. the calendar UI causes people to do things (overschedule) that are not good for them.
#
jrenslin.de created /User:Jrenslin.de (+164) "Created user page" (view diff)
#
Jeena sure but it kind of looks ugly
#
aaronpk most of the time it'll either be empty or too full
#
aaronpk calagator.org is an example of too many events per day to show in a calendar view, so they just use a list view
nitot joined the channel
#
aaronpk I have a calendar view of all my archives, which I think is kind of fun, but not a practical way to actually browse things http://aaronparecki.com/2015/08
#
Jeena I like it too but not for events
#
aaronpk yeah
#
Jeena but as a compact overview of things done it is really nice
lukebrooker joined the channel
#
cleverdevil blurgh, now my SSL bridgy fails are happening on twitter too :P
#
kylewm cleverdevil: your webmention endpoint is replying to the POST with 400 "The target page https://cleverdevil.io/2015/my-boy-at-the-beach does not exist."
#
cleverdevil I saw that... but it does exist :)
#
cleverdevil maybe a bug in Known?
#
kylewm sounds like a bug or misconfiguration, yeah
#
kylewm i notice that bridgy is using the http endpoint, http://cleverdevil.io/webmention/
#
kylewm wonder if Known keys off that
#
cleverdevil could be... says its cached.
#
cleverdevil can we clear the cache and do a retry?
#
cleverdevil maybe it'll use the https one.
#
kylewm has gotten myself in trouble messing with bridgy's datastore before
#
cleverdevil ;)
#
kylewm trying to delete just that one key... snarfed forgive me
#
kylewm retry?
#
cleverdevil clicking...
#
aaronpk possibly related? https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/637372993644027904
#
@benwerd Today's lesson: if libraries would take X-Forwarded-Proto into account when detecting HTTPS, that would be just dandy. (twitter.com/_/status/637372993644027904)
#
cleverdevil worked.
#
benwerd Hrm?
#
aaronpk sounds like Known only accepts https target when sent to the https webmention endpoint?
#
benwerd goes to check the code, but that shouldn't be the case
#
cleverdevil might be something about how I've got my Known instance setup.
#
kylewm benwerd: it looks like this would do it https://github.com/idno/Known/blob/9f82de3783c643be2151d186537d710997c6d3ac/Idno/Core/Config.php#L310
#
benwerd kylewm: I think that's probably right. Or at least, stripping off the URI scheme when we do the check.
#
benwerd I can confirm it's us. Writing a fix right now.
#
cleverdevil \o/
#
cleverdevil benwerd++
#
Loqi benwerd has 89 karma
#
cleverdevil My next project may be a way to post photos to my Known site (via micropub) via an Apple Photos Share Sheet...
#
kylewm benwerd: there's an argument to be made that it's weird of bridgy to ping the http endpoint with an https target
#
kylewm like, ideally it should fetch the page it wants to mention and use the webmention endpoint it finds there
#
cleverdevil probably would be smart for bridgy to use the same protocol as the target
#
kylewm or to take the protocol into account when caching
#
cleverdevil nods.
cmhobbs, shiflett_ and nitot joined the channel
#
benwerd Need to do a little more work on this but also have to head into a meeting - will commit later. Sorry for delay
lewisnyman and lukebrooker joined the channel
#
aaronpk cleverdevil: I'd love to use that app!
#
cleverdevil what I'm actually thinking is maybe making something more generic.
#
cleverdevil that you can install and then configure to be more scriptable.
#
aaronpk interesting
#
aaronpk well i'd be happy to help answer micropub/indieauth questions as you go!
#
cleverdevil maybe have a directory full of executable scripts
#
cleverdevil and just list those on the share sheet
#
aaronpk and i'd say start simple for sure
#
cleverdevil nods.
#
cleverdevil I already have some Python code that can do the actual publishing.
#
cleverdevil (that's the easy bit)