#indiewebcamp 2015-08-31

2015-08-31 UTC
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tantek !tell snarfed skimmed OPD proposals, thinking seems pretty sound. Maybe drop 24h restriction for original posts found through existing algorithm (since those have bidirectional links incl rel-syndication link back to POSSE copy)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG !tell acegiak New somewhat stable version of Post Kinds
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG In other news, my website is now more ready to use Micropub
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GWG I still keep messing up my POSSE
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GWG I've had POSSE problems from Day 1 that I arrived here
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tantek.com edited /Content-Security-Policy (-10) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ g" (view diff)
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tantek GWG what's a recent specific example of a POSSE problem that you've had?
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GWG https://david.shanske.com/2015/08/30/dining-solo/
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GWG So, it doesn't matter what tool I use, either Bridgy Publish or a WordPress plugin...
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GWG Everything but manual POSSE, something goes wrong in one case or another.
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GWG I can't get it to distinguish different post types/kinds properly.
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tantek what do you mean by "it"?
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tantek I will say this, getting POSSE to work well across numerous possibilities has definitely been a lot of work! Especially to Twitter in particular, which is why this section is so long: http://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#POSSE_to_Twitter
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tantek hmm - that post of yours is a very interesting example
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tantek it's commentary on a news article (on its own domain), including relevant quote in the reply-context citation. yet the commentary as written does not seem intended to show up as a comment on original article.
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GWG What is the difference between a reply and a comment?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "difference between a reply and a comment" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/102C
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tantek GWG, a reply is a post with its own permalink
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tantek a comment is a reply shown in the context of the original post, on the original post's permalink
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tantek hey I suppose I can define that though perhaps outside the window
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tantek The difference between a reply and a comment is that a [[reply]] is a post with its own permalink on its own permalink, whereas a [[comment]] is a reply shown in the context of the original post, on the original post's permalink.
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tantek.com created /difference_between_a_reply_and_a_comment (+300) "prompted by GWG https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-30/line/1440982746852" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /difference_between_a_reply_and_a_comment (+10) (view diff)
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GWG So, when the intended audience are people following me, as opposed to the original article, what does that make it?
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GWG I have nomenclature issues as well.
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GWG https://david.shanske.com/2015/08/25/israel-reclassifies-heinz-ketchup/
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GWG https://david.shanske.com/2015/08/24/yossi-piamenta-dead-at-age-64/
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GWG So, here are two more.
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GWG These are more reply like, I suppose
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GWG Now I'm back to my crisis of faith when I couldn't decide if I wanted to favorite, like, or bookmark
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tantek GWG, I think you are breaking new ground with the combination of interesting post types and POSSE, perhaps that is why you are finding it challenging, you are doing things and combining things as others have not done before.
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tantek one example at a time
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tantek note that the "original post" article that you replied to / commented on, has a tweet "POSSE" copy itself: https://twitter.com/CBSNewYork/status/637400305257222144
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@CBSNewYork New Yorkers Are Getting Into Dining Solo As Long As You Mind Your Manners http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/08/28/dining-solo/ (twitter.com/_/status/637400305257222144)
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tantek GWG, does your reply UI on your site have a field for (optionaly) manually entering the tweet POSSE copy of the post you're replying to, so that you can do POSSE tweet threading?
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tantek that is, you could have POSSEd your reply to Twitter, with an in-reply-to-status-id of 637400305257222144, which would have threaded your POSSE copy with the POSSE copy of the original article!
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tantek This technique is described in more detail here: https://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#POSSE_Replies_to_Twitter
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GWG tantek: No, it actually doesn't. I haven't gotten basic presentation on the silo down. Advanced presentation would be next
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GWG I hadn't even thought of threading yet, I admit
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tantek GWG, I (in Falcon) have a field for (optionally) manually entering the tweet POSSE copy of the post I'm replying to because my Falcon code is not yet smart enough to auto-populate it using rel-syndication from the original.
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tantek GWG, threading is essentially for when you want to reply to indieweb /note posts which themselves have tweet POSSE copies.
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tantek s/essentially/essential
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Loqi tantek meant to say: GWG, threading is essential for when you want to reply to indieweb /note posts which themselves have tweet POSSE copies.
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GWG tantek: It would be nice, I agree.
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GWG I just still can't get things to show the way I want, short of writing my own POSSE code
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tantek GWG, yes I found I had to write my own POSSE code, and that's why I documented all the different cases I had to figure out, on that section: http://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#POSSE_to_Twitter
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mblaney hello
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Loqi mblaney: aaronpk left you a message 1 day, 2 hours ago: I fixed the IRC logs! the irc-people update script broke a few days ago http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-29/line/1440832270546 http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-29/line/1440889968461
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tantek perhaps I should try to package up just the Falcon code that I have that implements /Twitter#POSSE_to_Twitter , just to see if it would be helpful.
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mblaney woohoo! thanks aaronpk! :-)
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GWG tantek: I figured someone should have a library.
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GWG I've always hated the bloated nature of SNAP
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GWG Before you ask...
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GWG What is SNAP?
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Loqi SNAP is a POSSE plugin for WordPress and stands for Social Network Auto Poster https://indiewebcamp.com/SNAP
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tantek :)
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mblaney I saw an interesting comment about good UX when POSSE'ing to twitter a few days ago, can't remember where now.
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mblaney basically adding a link back when there's more to be read, but maybe leaving it off id there's no more?
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mblaney I think I'll adopt that technique for my posts (which now have a "send to twitter" option)
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tantek mblaney - yes, that's what I currently do, and recommend: http://indiewebcamp.com/permashortcitation#Why
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tantek There's definitely mixed opinions, so you're encouraged to try what you think is best, and document the results you get!
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mblaney oh nice, there's a whole section on it.
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mblaney I agree it's definitely subjective.
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mblaney My post options to add a title and send to twitter aren't mutually exclusive, so at least when just the title appears in a tweet I can add the link back then too.
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tantek exactly!
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GWG I just don't know what that would look like in my POST UI.
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tantek GWG, it's another one-line field, perhaps right above the "content" field where you type the post content
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tantek in reply to URL: [________________________________]
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mblaney hi GWG, my sympathies UI is hard. would much prefer just a text box for input if possible.
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GWG The code I use for rel-syndication URLs is a box with one URL per line
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GWG I came up with that so I wouldn't have to ever code for a new service. It will display anything as a rel-syndication or u-syndication that is in the box.
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GWG mblaney: I also have to deal with pre-existing UI
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GWG I still don't know what a response to an article is, where the audience is on my site, not theirs.
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tantek GWG, I don't either - it's a very interesting post type!
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tantek closest is probably a bookmark
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GWG I have this intent issue with articles.
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GWG Some I post with no comment, some I post with a response. Some a comment on it for anyone who is following my feed.
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GWG I've had this problem from the beginning because I always found like a bit strong.
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tantek GWG, bookmark is like a neutral like
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tantek you can always bookmark something without any particular intent
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GWG then someone told me a bookmark could also be used for reading a book.
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tantek sure
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tantek assuming you have URLs for the page#s :)
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GWG So, my replies should be bookmarks?
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GWG Now I have to figure out how to distinguish.
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tantek I think a reply has the intention that you are ok with / expect it to show up on the original article as a comment
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GWG tantek: I think I need to mark up a book differently than a URL link to the book
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tantek GWG, that is a reasonable argument
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GWG I think I should just post more
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GWG Maybe it is time for another part of my neverending travelogue
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tantek GWG, I appreciate your travelogues when I get a chance to check them. I too am trying to travelblog more.
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tantek (e.g. Alaska cruise series recently)
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GWG After I finish June 2015, I have plans to revisit April of 1999
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GWG Then, who knows.
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GWG I'm not in a rushb
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@gklyne RT @t: ATT wifi injects ads http://webpolicy.org/2015/08/25/att-hotspots-now-with-advertising-injection/ = I learned+deployed CSP https://indiewebcamp.com/Content-Security-Policy You should too. #security (ttk.me t4cv2) (twitter.com/_/status/638215810654334976)
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Loqi [mention] David Teller and Graham Klyne reposted a post that linked to a photo: "Content-Security-Policy" https://indiewebcamp.com/Content-Security-Policy https://webmention.io/notification/T4jozqr5unNLkdB0jdpJHQ
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tantek that's not a photo. cc: aaronpk
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Loqi [mention] bsletten liked a post that linked to https://webmention.io/notification/krxVjwQHpKLlEX3HMpCWoA
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[aaronpk] Oh crap. That's the bug in the ruby parser that doesn't handle nested mf2 objects :-(
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[aaronpk] Do I break my rule and fix the parser or rewrite webmention.io in php?
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Loqi [mention] benjamin melançon commented 'Thank you, Dries, for another clear and insightful take on the critical topic of winning the Internet for the open web. Nothing more to a...' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://mlncn.withknown.com/2015/thank-you-dries-for-another-clear-and-insightful-take-on)
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tantek.com edited /Content-Security-Policy (+14) "see also sandbox" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /security (+176) "add how and why sections" (view diff)
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pfefferle good morning all
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tantek.com created /sandbox (+658) "stub with dfn, article about, why, see also" (view diff)
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Jeena good morning Europe (and everyone else who is awake)
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pfefferle good morning jeena
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stream.tinokremer.nl edited /Known (+61) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks https://medium.com/@web/our-truth-is-why-twitter-is-struggling-ffc6a4e02bcd I hope this is wrong. Reflecting truth is why twitter matters. @KatieS #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/638277836940271616)
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[kevinmarks] Morning to European indieweb people
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pfefferle good morning kevinmarks
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@alenevince https://medium.com/@web/our-truth-is-why-twitter-is-struggling-ffc6a4e02bcd I hope this is wrong. Reflecting truth is why twitter matters. KatieS #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/638287452961177600)
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@roseg RT @kevinmarks: https://medium.com/@web/our-truth-is-why-twitter-is-struggling-ffc6a4e02bcd I hope this is wrong. Reflecting truth is why twitter matters. @KatieS #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/638288412848488448)
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GWG Good morning
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GWG pfefferle: Submitted a patch to WordPress
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pfefferle GWG have seen it... any feedback yet?
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wwelves.org perpetual-tripper edited /User:Wwelves.org_perpetual-tripper (+74) "/* Itches */ more useful repositories by Pieter Colpaert (Open Transport WG)" (view diff)
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voxpelli pfefferle: did you see the language markup discussion that was a month or two ago? regarding parsing language as part of microformats?
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voxpelli pfefferle: thinking that you and me are some of the few multi-language posters that's active here
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voxpelli just posted a Swedish post on my Facebook to the misfortune of all of my non-swedish friends there – thinking that the indieweb could do better than Facebook there
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voxpelli relevant wiki-page: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-brainstorming#Parse_language_information
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pfeffer__ voxpelli no, missed it! thanks for pointing it to me... will keep up with the microformats docs if I have some spare time...
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pfeffer__ voxpelli is there a fallback for the full page, for example on the body or html tag?
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voxpelli pfeffer__: that would probably be out of scope of the mf2-parsing
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pfeffer__ voxpelli ok
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voxpelli pfeffer__: unless one would consider adding it as one has added "rel", but then there would be quite a bit of extra data that one might want to add – thinking this is to highlight exceptions
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voxpelli such as swedish posts on an english blog
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voxpelli pfeffer__: if you like the idea then feel free to add a +1 on the wiki :)
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pfeffer__ voxpelli ok, will have a look... but I think I like it ;)
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jeena.net edited /events/2015-09-09-homebrew-website-club (-11) "/* Where */ Göteborg" (view diff)
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jeena.net edited /events/2015-09-09-homebrew-website-club (+93) "/* Göteborg */ jeena rsvp and event links" (view diff)
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tantek good Monday morning #indiewebcamp!
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tantek Is anyone here using the /sandbox attribute on their iframes of external content? e.g. youtube and vimeo embeds?
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tantek Jeena++ great to see that Göteborg is on again for 2015-09-09 HWC!
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Loqi Jeena has 22 karma
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tantek.com edited /git (+550) "Criticism / Complex Unmemorable Commands" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Events (+560) "add xoxo breakfast" (view diff)
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tantek yay!
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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tantek ok here's some alternative thinking about /monoculture projects - what if we reached out (both passively and actively) to them stating a desire to federate with them? prioritize friendliest/smallest such projects first, most cynical/largest last, the assumption being that smaller projects have more incentive to federate, and it's always preferable to work with friendlier communities?
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aaronpk I think we've tried some of that in the past, even to the point of directly sending PRs
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tantek yes, we've tried some piecemeal minor efforts
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aaronpk I think we might need to be better about making the case about *why*
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tantek I'm talking about from the wiki on down
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tantek more of a holistic approach to showing a desire to federate with them
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aaronpk that'd be great
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tantek alright, let me see if I can start on this
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gRegorLove Morning, #indiewebcamp
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tantek good morning gRegorLove
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tantek gRegorLove: would appreciate your opinion about ^^^
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ben_thatmustbeme I'd be totally for that
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ben_thatmustbeme i have been doing some of this to a smaller extent.
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gRegorLove I'm not sure what you mean by "from the wiki on down" but in general it sounds good. I'm all for getting more projects indieweb friendly.
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tantek ok here's what I mean
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tantek or rather, an example of what I mean
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tantek.com edited /Diaspora (+938) "add Dear Diaspora Lets Federate section, cluster Feature sections together" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme if we can get just one or two i feel like it would start to snowball
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ben_thatmustbeme s/would/could
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: if we can get just one or two i feel like it could start to snowball
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aaronpk nice
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tantek gRegorLove: see new top of https://indiewebcamp.com/Diaspora and please provide feedback
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tantek that's an example of what I mean by passive outreach
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aaronpk yes that is much better than a harsh criticism at the top of those pages
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tantek we shouldn't censor criticism (it's still there in a further down below section)
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Loqi agreed.
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tantek however I wonder how much progress we could make by flipping the tone of the top of such pages
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tantek It's worth trying at least right?
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aaronpk yep!
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tantek alright, I wanted to write one up as an example like that and have y'all take a look and iterate / provide feedback before attempting to do it on others
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gRegorLove Looks good
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ben_thatmustbeme i have been slowly pokeing around at other potential candidates to federate with. I have been hoping that known and WP plugins would be enough interest to get a couple of smaller ones
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tantek !tell barnabywalters what do you think of this way of attempting to be welcoming to Diaspora and potentially other communities? (just added at top of wiki page: https://indiewebcamp.com/Diaspora#Dear_Diaspora_Lets_Federate )
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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tantek hmm this fable seems applicable to silos/walled garden vs indieweb: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dog_and_the_Wolf
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tantek maybe a good way to do an intro to a future talk about the indieweb
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@kevinmarks @harper @FallenPegasus @daaelar federation isn't scary, it's just fiddly and annoying compared to reinventing the wheel. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/638403043390681088)
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aaronpk that's a hilarious thread
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tantek amazing
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/FallenPegasus/status/638403115318796288
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@FallenPegasus .@harper Your users do not "belong" to you. Your app service belongs to your users. (twitter.com/_/status/638403115318796288)
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tantek KevinMarks, aaronpk re: the start of that thread "Interoperate! Federate!" - don't get angry, start with making your own website federate and iteroperate! #bethechange #indieweb #selfdogfood https://twitter.com/FallenPegasus/status/638389650697027584
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@FallenPegasus At work now use Yammer, & Hipchat, & Slack, & Skype, and and and. Getting ANGRY re these VCfunded silos. Interoperate! Federate! (twitter.com/_/status/638389650697027584)
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GWG Afternoon
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voxpelli Funny that both HipChat and Slack supports XMPP-clients and Slack also supports IRC-clients
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aaronpk why does slack get so much credit for being "open"? https://twitter.com/harper/status/638404606196715520
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@harper @FallenPegasus @HipChat @SlackHQ yep. Agree. I don't think slack is federated. Only that it is a tiny bit better than the status quo (twitter.com/_/status/638404606196715520)
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KevinMarks because it has integrations and webhooks
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aaronpk so does hipchat
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aaronpk it's just shinier and new
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voxpelli one is enterprise, the other is human
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KevinMarks was hipchat irc originally?
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KevinMarks haven't used it
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voxpelli KevinMarks: I think hipchat is built on XMPP
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voxpelli while Slack is built on proprietary WebSockets (they do expose it as an API though)
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KevinMarks slack preserves the flavour of irc better, but removes a lot of the oddness
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voxpelli Slack also works _much_ better with mobile devices – hipchat doesn't work well there at all – especially not when one jumps between devices
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aaronpk my point was not which is better, but that slack is somehow getting credit for being more open/friendly despite it being a proprietary silo
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GWG aaronpk: They haven't shut the door yet
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KartikPrabhu don't most new shiny silos get that credit for a while
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voxpelli aaronpk: that is weird, but I guess – supporting both xmpp and irc clients means one can use ones typical open client to connect to them and then one personally doesn't notice that it's a silo
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aaronpk yeah but those gateways are always second class citizens compared to their native clients
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aaronpk often missing lots of features
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KevinMarks I think it's more that slack brings the logged irc channel pattern that a lot of engs like to a wider audience, with a god mobile client
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tantek checks context
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KevinMarks it does come back to UX mattering
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voxpelli aaronpk: true, services like Grove.io and IRCCloud that offer hosting of real IRC-channels are the more truly open ones
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aaronpk I'm not even saying that IRC is the ultimate protocol and everyone should just build better IRC clients
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aaronpk it's just sad that building something like Slack in a way that can truly be federated does not seem to be a priority
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voxpelli aaronpk: http://moose-team.github.io/friends/ ? ;)
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voxpelli that one didn't work well last time I tried it though :P
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tantek yes, more open is often a way of saying more accessible - more accessible to more people, more accessible on more devices etc.
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aaronpk haha yeah ngoldman works with me and maxogden visits the office now and then :)
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tantek the same way that the Mac is "more open" than Linux. The Mac is more open to more people being able to productively use it, as opposed to requiring users meet a bar of becoming a Linux sysadmin. Such high bars are barriers, and thus make something less open.
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tantek we have some of that same challenge here on the IndieWeb
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voxpelli tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 233 karma
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aaronpk that's a good definition of "open"
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voxpelli a good mobile experience is probably one of the key thing Slack nailed – that and gif:s, emojis and simple bots :)
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tantek aaronpk - it's merely broadening the consideration of what is considered "open"
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aaronpk what is open?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "open" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/102D
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tantek aaronpk - let's see how you rephrase/paraphrase/copypaste what I wrote ;)
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aaronpk i was trying to tantek you ;)
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tantek a good test of a definition is how well it survives a iteration or two of re-explanation.
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tantek thus since you liked it, I invite you to write it, from your perspective of what you liked.
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GWG aaronpk, I think you need a verb of your own
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aaronparecki.com created /open (+510) "prompted by aaronpk https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-31/line/1441045403217 dfn paraphrased from tantek" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /open (+76) "linky linky, see also" (view diff)
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voxpelli first social post on my site is up! http://voxpelli.com/social/
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voxpelli now all I have to do is to fix all that POSSE-stuff + automatic webmentions
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tantek what is a social post?
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voxpelli (that photo was published using Quill)
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "social post" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/102E
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voxpelli tantek: for me: everything that isn't an article or a shared bookmark
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voxpelli notes, likes, rsvp:s, reposts, maybe even events
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tantek voxpelli: I don't understand the distinction then, as articles are presumably social because they can receive / show /comments /likes /reposts
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tantek and the whole point of a *shared* bookmark is to be social with it right? rather than just bookmarking it in your private browser?
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voxpelli tantek: my blog will still mainly be my blog so I will keep articles up front, add a new section for links – like adactio has – and a third section for everything else
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voxpelli "social" because most of the everything else will be Twitter-like stuff
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tantek voxpelli: I look forward to seeing your definitions evolve as you post more of this stuff on your own site first :)
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voxpelli so everyone can be social to me, but my social interactions to others will be kept in one place :)
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voxpelli s/to me/to all my content/
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Loqi voxpelli meant to say: so everyone can be social to all my content, but my social interactions to others will be kept in one place :)
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tantek but aren't notes your own starting points? like articles?
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tantek I can understand top level posts vs. /responses
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tantek as a distinction
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@LukasRosenstock "Web! What is it good for?": http://t.co/2pHeDCH3cO Good article from @adactio on the differences of web and native platforms. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/638426407132090368)
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tantek but notes and events are more like articles, than they are like likes, reposts, RSVPs,
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tantek ... tag-ofs
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voxpelli tantek: I have +10k tweets and 20-40 blog posts – but the latter has a longer lasting value than the former – so I want to keep them separate in the main UI (they are all part of the same full archive though)
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tantek voxpelli: my "tweet" frequency went way down after I started posting from my own site, mostly as a result of becoming more thoughtful with my writing just because it was starting on my own site.
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tantek which is why I said I look forward to seeing your definitions evolve as you post more of this stuff on your own site
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tantek and eventually my notes got longer and longer and started to resemble mini-articles without titles/names
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tantek now I post a wide spectrum of short notes, medium length notes, long notes, articles
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tantek much better than the false dichotomy of tweets vs. articles
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voxpelli I'm especially looking forward to upgrade my Pinboard/Instapaper use to some much more valuable sharing
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voxpelli something like: http://voxpelli.com/links/
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voxpelli still a work in progress though – not sure whether a "bookmark" or a "repost" is the best
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tantek a good question indeed! ask GWG about questions about post types ;)
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tantek Who from #indiewebcamp is going to xoxo? are there any #indieweb related sessions at XOXO?
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aaronpk Eric Meyer is one of the speakers, does that count? ;)
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tantek when was the last time he was in this channel? or posted anything indiewebcamp specific?
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tantek is his session indieweb related? or is he giving his AEA talk about UX of crisis?
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aaronpk I dunno but he still lists "microformats" as one of his projects in the sidebar of his site
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tantek I think that's due more to sidebar inertia than anything else at this point
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tantek perhaps a positive way to figure it out would be to encourage him to add microformats2 to his site :)
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aaronpk neat, he was experimenting with POSSEing to medium http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2015/07/30/medium-trials/
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tantek GWG, since you're our WordPress Outreach Club chairman, perhaps you could reach out to @meyerweb and let him know about all the awesome IndieWeb WordPress plugins there are (Eric Meyer runs WordPress on his site meyerweb.com)
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tantek heh, already documented aaronpk :) http://indiewebcamp.com/Medium#Eric_Meyer
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aaronpk oh nice
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tantek is he on the Slack?
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aaronpk I don't see him there
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tantek what's the name of his XOXO talk? or is he just listed as a speaker?
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aaronpk I don't think they've announced talk titles yet. might be announced today tho.
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gRegorLove I wish I was going to XOXO, but alas. Next year, maybe.
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tantek gRegorLove: let's conduct a virtual YOYO conf in parallel ;)
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gRegorLove haha
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gRegorLove I can't do anything that weekend; other plans. ++ for that name though
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KevinMarks we need a Z- based conference after XOXO and Y&YY
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aaronpk ZZZ-conf: every room is a nap room
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KevinMarks I'd say ZeroConf but that's taken
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tantek.com edited /short-domains (+126) "/* io */ p3k" (view diff)
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tantek does anyone have a (physical) pin maker? I'd like to make pins like we did for IndieWebCamp NYC 2014
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GWG tantek: I'm chairman? I should ask for a raise
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aaronpk I know someone who does!
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tantek GWG, you really should reach out to @meyerweb on Twitter suggesting that he try out the IndieWeb WordPress plugins (feel free to cc: @t)
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tantek either he'll try them out and use them, or he will give you EXCELLENT feedback about challenges in their UX, and perhaps suggestions for improving them
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+626) "/* Itches */ add Own My Listens per last.fm design/feature changes being concerning" (view diff)
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@dshanske @meyerweb Read your attempt to post to Medium. Have you tried any of the IndieWeb plugins for WordPress on your site? (twitter.com/_/status/638462665745154048)
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GWG tantek I need plenty
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GWG I have to fix the bugs I may have introduced yesterday.
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tantek GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 115 karma
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tantek GWG, now if he has time, he may search WordPress Plugins (official site?) for "IndieWeb" and see what shows up
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GWG I thought I had fixed them all.
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@indiewebcamp RT @t: ATT wifi injects ads http://webpolicy.org/2015/08/25/att-hotspots-now-with-advertising-injection/ = I learned+deployed CSP https://indiewebcamp.com/Content-Security-Policy You should too. #security (ttk.me t4cv2) (twitter.com/_/status/638464789681823744)
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tantek I need to just emphasize this point from aaronpk: "Long URLs are not clickable since they wrap multiple terminal lines" http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/08/29/1/why-i-live-in-irc
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tantek what is URL design?
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Loqi URL design is the practice of deliberately designing URLs, in particular, permalinks, typically for a better UX for everyone who creates, reads, and shares content https://indiewebcamp.com/URL_design
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tantek.com edited /URL_design (+97) "/* More Usable */ greater reliability (with citation)" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /URL_design (+389) "/* Avoid */ Long URLs" (view diff)
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tantek great post aaronpk
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aaronpk thanks!
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Loqi [mention] someone wrote a post that linked to an event: "Homebrew Website Club Meetup" http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-09-09-homebrew-website-club https://webmention.io/notification/PfOiTiNVOmmxXMc8It7OuA
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tantek aaronpk re: physical pins - remember these? https://instagram.com/p/nQaXNJA9UE/?tagged=indiewebcampnyc
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aaronpk oh yeah!
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tantek direct .jpg for your Slacksters: https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xpa1/t51.2885-15/e15/10246004_731071916943333_1329630632_n.jpg
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Loqi [mention] IndieWebCamp liked a post that linked to a photo: "Content-Security-Policy" https://indiewebcamp.com/Content-Security-Policy https://webmention.io/notification/nd6Zdcp4m7hu0042O8exgA
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Loqi [mention] IndieWebCamp reposted a post that linked to a photo: "Content-Security-Policy" https://indiewebcamp.com/Content-Security-Policy https://webmention.io/notification/Ty3reAfebgpcg8A-qzXP_Q
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tantek worked just as I suspected
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kylewm oh, some extra pins for celebrity guests who didn't show up?
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tantek kylewm: all people we explicitly reached out to on Twitter, who responded with at least some interest
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tantek local New York City folks involved with web stuff, and all of whom already had their own websites
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GWG tantek: I am this close to inviting everyone to my living room for Indiewebcamp
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tantek we did get Cameron (of Brooklyn Beta), and what's the floppy disk icon person...
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tantek s/what's/who's
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Loqi tantek meant to say: we did get Cameron (of Brooklyn Beta), and who's the floppy disk icon person...
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tantek @ftrain
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KevinMarks Paul Ford
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kylewm lol, the floppy disk person
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tantek see what happens when you pick a non-anthropomorphic icon for yourself? ;)
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tantek aaronpk, have we discussed auto-embedding images/audio/video URLs in the logs?
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aaronpk not sure
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tantek what's the backend of the logs written in?
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aaronpk php
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aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/indiewebcamp-irc-logs
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tantek which autolinker are you using?
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aaronpk my only concern is making the page load super slow since there would be potentially a lot of images
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aaronpk i'm using my own autolinker, since it also has to match a bunch of custom stuff like the twitter lines and such
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tantek aaronpk - got it
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tantek in that case - could do client side auto-linking
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tantek er, auto-embedding
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aaronpk i'm still worried about autoembedding stuff on such long pages
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tantek if I've done my code right, you should be able to use cassis.js auto_link on the page on the client, and it should leave existing auto-links (from any source) alone
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aaronpk especially because the heights of the objects are all unknown, so if you wanted to quickly scroll to the bottom of the page you couldn't, because the bottom would keep getting pushed down farther as more stuff lodas
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tantek a-ha, interesting challenge for progressive enhancement
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aaronpk i would have no issue doing it on the single-line permalinks
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tantek yes! that would be a good incremental enhancement
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tantek if it helps, just copy/paste the relevant code from cassis.js autolink into your own auto-linker
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tantek the whole auto-link function is Apache licensed (since the regex I re-used and extended was Apache)
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KevinMarks if I make my hovercard code more resilient, coudl add those too
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tantek can you make it as stylistically nice as Twitter or FB's hovercards?
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aaronpk what's the flexbox way to achieve this? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/24537178/css-to-align-3-layout-elements-for-a-chat-interface
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: setting full height on Element 1 should do it (from what I've read of flexbox; never used it)
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tantek.com edited /User:Tantek.com (+493) "completed: blog post about 2014-in-summary; added: updated POSSE diagram done in an atomic age design style" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: see this: https://css-tricks.com/boxes-fill-height-dont-squish/
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KartikPrabhu setting flex-direction: column seems to be the trick
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KevinMarks to do it in flexbox you would a vertical flex for 2,3 inside a horizontal flex with 1 in as well
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KevinMarks but if you make 1 fixed it is still going to be annoying on a mobile screen
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KevinMarks this is really good at explaining flexbox: https://css-tricks.com/snippets/css/a-guide-to-flexbox/
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KevinMarks tantek: not sure i have the design skills, but that was my initial goal
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KevinMarks we don't have a way to mark up header images
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KevinMarks which both of those rely on
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tantek KevinMarks - then for now just put in the IndieWebCamp logo as a default header image
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tantek as a placeholder in the design
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KartikPrabhu hovercards without header image are also fine
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tantek yes - simpler design is even better
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KevinMarks thats what i have now
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KevinMarks but they aren't greta yet
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tantek they feel like they take up too much space for the information they provide
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tantek Kevinmarks, at least mimic the minimal typography etc. that Twitter & FB hovercards have
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KevinMarks I should document them properly
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Loqi yea
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KevinMarks hm, where is the indie anywhere link on http://indiewebcamp.com/hovercard supposed to point?
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KevinMarks ah, 1st link works, nto 2nd one
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tantek so, this is a good set of reasons not to use Spotify. Yikes: http://www.wired.com/2015/08/cant-squat-spotifys-eerie-new-privacy-policy/
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tantek what is Spotify
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Loqi Spotify is a playlist hosting silo and streaming music service https://indiewebcamp.com/Spotify
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aaronpk eh i'd give them the benefit of the doubt on that
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tantek uh wat, why does Spotify need "photos, or media files"?!?
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aaronpk https://news.spotify.com/us/2015/08/21/sorry-2/
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aaronpk to upload cover art to playists i think
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tantek.com edited /Spotify (+425) "criticism, Creepy Privacy Policy, documentation and response" (view diff)
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tantek thanks - added both
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tantek hmm - hey Loqi
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Loqi grins profusely
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@t @dougturner @kermiite 1. Defense in depth http://indiewebcamp.com/Content-Security-Policy#Why_bother_if_attacker_can_hack_CSP_too 2. I dare ATT to #circumvent Content #Security Policy (ttk.me t4cy1) (twitter.com/_/status/638492154386620416)
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KevinMarks hm, facebook added a new event response - 'save' in addition to join
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tantek KevinMarks, they've had that for a while ;)
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tantek hmm http://microformats.org/wiki/rsvp-examples#2015_RSVP_buttons_update
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Loqi [bridgy] Doug Turner replied '@t also ty' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Content-Security-Policy#Why_bother_if_attacker_can_hack_CSP_too (https://twitter.com/dougturner/status/638493814433251328)
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Loqi [bridgy] Tantek Çelik replied '@dougturner yes ATT cares more about bottom line. Would be costly (PR / legal #CFAA) for them to strip CSP. #security (ttk.me t4cy3)' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Content-Security-Policy#Why_bother_if_attacker_can_hack_CSP_too (https://twitter.com/t/status/638495199082188800)
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Loqi [bridgy] Doug Turner replied '@t I suspect ATT cares more about it's bottom line than CSP.' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Content-Security-Policy#Why_bother_if_attacker_can_hack_CSP_too (https://twitter.com/dougturner/status/638493711698034688)
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Loqi [mention] Doug Turner liked a post that linked to a photo: "Content-Security-Policy" http://indiewebcamp.com/Content-Security-Policy#Why_bother_if_attacker_can_hack_CSP_too https://webmention.io/notification/ltAcPk0ZvEYG__-gladszw
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