2015-09-09 UTC
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# 00:26 snarfed1 twitter rsvp!
# 00:26 snarfed if only we had an rsvp microsyntax that bridgy could understand and interpret
# 00:28 snarfed so then rsvp microsyntax would only be useful for interpreting "i'm going to X..." tweets
# 00:28 snarfed not sure if there's enough of a convention for those
# 00:32 M-Kodo I'll show off my elixir microformats2 parser
# 00:32 M-Kodo the beginning of it anyway
# 00:33 M-Kodo I started parsing nested h- tags and found out it currently sucks
# 00:34 M-Kodo not really a fan of the idea that p-foo is a property string unless there is an h- then it becomes an object with children
# 00:35 M-Kodo I have a webmention module for elixir too
# 00:37 M-Kodo I really like in elixir that "libraries" are just applications and you build your application by composing other applications
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# 00:46 M-Kodo I have never built a django app. I don't really know python. I know the basics but I figured I didn't need to know it since I already knew ruby heh
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# 01:12 aaronpk M-Kodo: the nested h- tag thing is actually really powerful in practice
# 01:12 aaronpk i've never written the parsing side of it though. luckily that's something you only have to write once (per language) for the most part
# 01:13 M-Kodo Parsing html trees is kinda fun
# 01:14 M-Kodo you get to play with recursion
# 01:14 M-Kodo in erlang it is usually a 3-tuple that looks like {tag_name, [list of attributes], [children of tag]}
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# 03:31 mblaney hi aaronpk, I had a go at posting to IndieNews, I don't think it likes that I'm using p-category?
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# 04:29 aaronpk mblaney: sounds like you need to use u-category instead?
# 04:31 mblaney yeah it doesn't do anything smart, just wraps it in p-category
# 04:32 mblaney so I guess I need to look at when to apply p-category vs u-category?
# 04:34 aaronpk mblaney: the prefix tells the parser where to get the value from, so u-category when it's on an <a> tag
# 04:35 mblaney what would I do if I had a bunch of tags, and only some were links?
# 04:38 aaronpk well you'd probably want them to be clickable on the website right?
# 04:39 aaronpk so you'd check if it looks like a URL and then display it with an <a> tag if so
# 04:44 mblaney currently I just wrap my tags in a span with a p-category class, do I keep that and also add u-category to the links?
# 04:44 aaronpk oh, no, each tag needs its own p-category or u-category tag
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# 05:31 tantek aaronpk++ LOVE the recent photos from the top 10 on ownyourgram. amazing
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# 10:30 petermolnar that tweet aboveon the webmention spam: I'm really not looking forward to this :(
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# 10:31 Zegnat I am already getting so much referral spam, the same filters might work interchangeably.
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# 10:43 Zegnat I do like hashcash for their simplicity, and I accept and verify those on my endpoint (though I am currently not using them). Whether they can really combat spam is a different question
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# 11:36 voxpelli haven't had any spam that I know about so far – all spam I've heard people receiving so far has been from pingback-to-webmention bridges
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# 14:50 Zegnat Jeena: I really like the design for events on your website, have to say
# 14:50 Jeena thanks, I invested some time into just designing them
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# 14:52 Jeena I had a info@ for the important stuff and spam@ just for services I don't trust
# 14:53 Jeena in the end I get no emails on my info@ but facebook, twitter, and everything else has my spam@ one
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# 15:06 aaronpk almost time for me to renew my wildcard certificate for pin13.net
# 15:09 aaronpk now I have to decide if it's worth $94/year to get the same one again, or whether it's better to pay the $59 identity validation thingy to startssl so I can get wildcard certs through them
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# 15:10 aaronpk yeah also now i have to track down everywhere I installed that wildcard cert, fun
# 15:10 aaronpk it's on my mail server, IRC server, several domain names, etc
# 15:12 aaronpk oh interesting, so startssl charges $59 for identity validation, which expires after a year, but then the wildcard cert will be valid for 2 years
# 15:12 aaronpk so that means if I only need one wildcard cert, I am essentially paying $59 for 2 years
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# 15:25 voxpelli aaronpk: no visual feedback when I click upgrade though – the box remains but I see an ajax request in the background
# 15:25 aaronpk oh lol sorry. I was tired last night when I was finishing this
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# 15:42 aaronpk oh did you want to translate "There are no posts submitted to the Swedish feed yet! As soon as you {0}submit a post{1}
it will show up here." too? (i entered that one in english so it didn't say "english" on the swedish page)
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# 15:44 voxpelli I should probably take a look at the actual site after you have uploaded it to make sure things makes sense in context as well
# 15:45 aaronpk the rest you won't see until there's an article there
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# 15:50 Zegnat There seems to be a grammar mistake on there, but I am always wary of correcting Swedish as it is the third language my math-centric brain has been forced to learn
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# 15:52 voxpelli Zegnat: always kind of hard to get a good flow in the language when one translates, but feel free to give feedback! :)
# 15:53 voxpelli (one which ironically was a misspelling of the Swedish word for "issue" :P )
# 15:53 Zegnat voxpelli: It says "din egna sida", but "egna" is plural, right?
# 15:53 voxpelli that might be true, perhaps it should be "egen" instead
# 15:54 Zegnat I think I learned it that way. But those are the type of things I get really wary about as non-native speaker
# 15:54 Zegnat aaronpk: is there any reason for several webmention endpoints on IndieNews instead of relying on the target parameter?
# 15:55 aaronpk Zegnat: not really, it was easier for me that way, and no difference for people sending webmentions since you have to discover the webmention endpoint anyway
# 15:59 aaronpk has that been a problem for anyone except bridgy?
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# 16:02 aaronpk hm maybe i should use one endpoint for everything
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# 16:08 voxpelli aaronpk: one could argue that it's good that you use many endpoints because it helps discovers invalid optimizations/assumptions
# 16:09 aaronpk true, depends on whether you consider caching the webmention endpoint per domain an invalid optimization
# 16:11 aaronpk okay well regardless, I just fixed a bug that I realized existed thanks to that comment :)
# 16:12 aaronpk now it doesn't matter which endpoint you send it to, it'll show up in whichever language feed you specify in the target parameter
# 16:12 Zegnat It is a theoretical problem only at the moment... I think. I had planned to cache endpoints per domain, but dropped those plans after the discussions
# 16:14 aaronpk I think it's actually a problem for bridgy since they send out so many webmentions, but for the majority of us it's not a practical issue
# 16:17 voxpelli I know it wouldn't have been a problem for Bloglovin :P But different scale I guess
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# 16:30 voxpelli aaronpk: thought about dropping pingback-support eventually?
# 16:36 voxpelli aaronpk: for WebMention.io in general – or are you receiving many good pingbacks?
# 16:37 aaronpk well it's up to the site using webmention.io whether they want to support pingbacks! remember you have to advertise your pingback endpoint!
# 16:37 aaronpk so if you don't want to support pingbacks, just don't include a rel=pingback link :)
# 16:41 voxpelli I guess, wonder if some adds it just because they think the more the merrier
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# 16:42 aaronpk especially on my other sites. it's fun to know when people write blog posts about my other projects
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# 16:49 KartikPrabhu very neat. could be improved with clustering "replied to posts on ... "
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# 18:30 Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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# 19:17 tantek you can invite people that were invited to previous HWC
# 19:17 tantek as well as reach out to individuals via @-referencing them on Twitter
# 19:17 Zegnat Jeena: good to see you have pictures of every one of the events so far!
# 19:29 Loqi [mention] Sarah Dopp, Christian Crumlish, Monica Wilkinson, Katie Johnson, Liza Sperling, Thor Muller, Chris Messina, Pascale Diaine, Evan Prodromou, Martin Atkins, Faruk AteÅŸ, Lonnie Rae, Joichi Ito, Jesse Vincent, Sabrina Bruning, Eddie Codel, Ariel Waldman, Erin Stevenson O'Connor, Yan XZ, Erin Jo Richey, Ryan King, Will Norris, Katarzyna Babula, Doc Searls, Christine Herron, Elisa Jo Harkness, Joseph Smarr, Deb Schultz, Ben Ward, Laura Gluhanich, Megs ORorke, Edward O'Connor, Matt Biddulph, Matthew Levine, Heather Gold, Christina Warren, and Elizabeth Churchill were invited to https://webmention.io/notification/FKubnWbxSBZ014sLzD6RSw
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# 19:41 Zegnat aaronpk: it is 512 characters right? I seem to recall reading that somewhere
# 19:41 aaronpk probably depends on the network. guess I can just count the chars in that last message that got cut off
# 19:42 aaronpk looks like 422 there. maybe things like nick length contribute to it?
# 19:42 tantek is it IRC specific, Freenode specific? citations?
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# 19:44 tantek heh - that sounds worth adding to the wiki ;)
# 19:44 Zegnat commands also have the full sender info, if I read the RFC right? One of the examples: :Angel!wings@irc.org PRIVMSG Wiz :Are you receiving this message ?
# 19:45 tantek we can fix that - especially since there's a Known plugin to POSSE to IRC
# 19:51 aaronpk anxiously awaits for someone to submit a post to the German or Swedish IndieNews :D
# 19:51 Zegnat When I finally get my blog going I’ll submit a pull for a Dutch IndieNews, do remind me about that though
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# 19:59 Zegnat Jeena: may I pull your HWC photo to the wiki?
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# 20:25 Loqi aaronpk meant to say: oh what... tvOS apps can be XML and javascript
# 20:27 sparverius not swift? although i guess that makes sense; i wonder how many 10 foot apps for other platforms are javascript backed
# 20:28 aaronpk "New templates using XML and Javascript are also available as a framework for tvOS apps, so you can use predefined layouts and Javascript APIs to quickly create beautiful apps ideal for streaming media." https://developer.apple.com/tvos/
# 20:39 Zegnat XML actually doesn’t sound that bad, as it forces every app to have the same UI/UX, just with different settings
# 20:39 Zegnat I have to navigate apps with my remote, so you better make it easy on me
# 20:40 aaronpk wonder what kind of indieweb apps i could make for apple tv :)
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# 20:50 Zegnat live feed of IndieNews scrolling on the office TV, aaronpk
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# 21:28 tantek it's a good use of the eXperiment Markup Language
# 21:28 tantek gather data for how to actually make it work cross-device
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# 22:32 tantek KartikPrabhu: was that a custom POSSE text edit?
# 22:33 tantek KartikPrabhu: pretty sure you can use p-summary for that?
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# 22:45 KartikPrabhu the problem is I don't want to complicate my note posting UI with a field for summary
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# 22:50 tantek KartikPrabhu: you just contradicted yourself! You said you wished that Bridgy had a field for custom POSSE text, and yet you don't want a field for POSSE text in your note posting uI!
# 22:51 KartikPrabhu tantek: no a field for optional POSSE text is fine. But then I don't want it to show up as summary in my post markup since it will most likely be a "shortened" version of the whole post, not a summary
# 23:00 tantek you could provide it as a progressive disclosure thing
# 23:01 snarfed1 ooh a hidden (meta)data use case
# 23:04 KartikPrabhu tantek: usually I don't want readers on my site to see the truncated version anyway. the whole issue is Twitter's stupid char-limit.
# 23:10 tantek thanks snarfed, apologies for the delay in following up on that. :/
# 23:11 tantek KartikPrabhu: you could use the progressive disclosure elements in HTML5 to not show it by default.
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