#indiewebcamp 2015-09-14

2015-09-14 UTC
squeakytoy2, j12t, glennjones, snarfed, wolftune, davidmead, sparverius, mlncn, halorgium and tantek joined the channel
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tantek.com edited /IRC (+40) "update definition to be more about the channel than abbreviation, use keywords that can be further looked up" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /this_channel (+16) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /this_channel_about (+16) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /IndieWebCamps (+35) "p-summary for explicit use of top dfn" (view diff)
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@MatthewDiIulio More people should use #IndieWeb. (twitter.com/_/status/643271103125811201)
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tantek.com edited /next-hwc (+0) "assume next Edinburgh HWC is on this week!" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu what is this channel about?
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Loqi Internet Relay Chat (abbreviated IRC), in particular the #indiewebcamp channel on the irc.freenode.net server, is the primary community discussion forum for IndieWebCamp and anything about the IndieWeb https://indiewebcamp.com/this_channel_about
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KartikPrabhu tantek: shouldn't that question give the description of "what is indieweb" ?
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KartikPrabhu what is indieweb?
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Loqi The indieweb is about owning your domain and using it as your primary identity, to publish on your own site (optionally syndicate elsewhere), and ownyourdata https://indiewebcamp.com/indieweb
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tantek KartikPrabhu: nah, the channel is about both IndieWebCamp and IndieWeb
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tantek and the IRC definition says that now
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KartikPrabhu fiar enough
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tantek I deliberately capitalized IndieWebCamp and IndieWeb in the dfn to give new folks a clue that they could ask what those are too
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tantek.com edited /IndieWebCamps (-467) "rm old vevent markup" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /IndieWebCamps (+34) "try a fake h-event to see if that tricks Loqi" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /hosting_service (+24) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /Indie_Web (+21) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /web_hosting (+166) "expand dfn a bit" (view diff)
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tantek what is the advantage over social networks?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "advantage over social networks" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/102m
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tantek advantage over social networks is /why
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loqi.me created /advantage_over_social_networks (+16) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-09-13/line/1442204518326 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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GWG I've just tried to submit a patch to WordPress to add optional Microformats2 support. I'm predicting silence.
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tantek GWG, do you have an overall strategy for doing microformats2 support in WordPress *better* thatn what they did with classic microformats?
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tantek e.g. currently their support of classic microformats is split across core and themes, and as you know that has made it a major pain to make things work, fix things etc.
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GWG tantek: My plan involves fixing two elements to start
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GWG h-entry and h-feed
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GWG The original WordPress mods only addressed hentry
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GWG The issue with theme vs core may not be a fixable one.
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tantek GWG, why?
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tantek has caught up on logs for past two days.
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GWG tantek: It goes to a combination of philosophy and backward compatibility.
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GWG My initial argument was that core could help theme developers by providing functions for the structure.
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GWG I haven't proven that argument.
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tantek really interesting how much more "attention" a Bridgy Publish FB POSSEd post (long note) gets as compared to a Twitter->FB POSSEd post.
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tantek GWG, indeed - such fundamental architecture questions are difficult to resolve in purely electronic communications
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GWG tantek: I'm learning though. I don't know if I'll ever get to the point where I can make such big changes. Working on little ones. One of my tickets just got, after some heavy modifications and review, committed for the next release of WordPress. It was one I opened based on my issues with getting useful notifications out of WordPress for webmentions.
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tantek oh very cool
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tantek yes getting small changes accepted is a good path
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tantek it's the classic build reputation method in open source
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GWG tantek: There is one thing I think might work, but I haven't figured out how to solve it yet
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GWG Not for Microformats specifically, but for webmentions
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tantek interesting
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GWG https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/32653
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GWG No one is going to be interested in webmentions when they think the whole category is a mess.
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tantek whole category?
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GWG linkbacks
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tantek ah right
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tantek.com edited /IndieWebCamps (+28) "wrap everything in an h-entry instead of the fake h-event at the top" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Events (+2047) "move past events to past, add expected events" (view diff)
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tantek !tell gRegorLove could you take a look adding HWC events for 2015-09-23 and perhaps October too?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek !tell rhiaro is there a HWC Edinburgh this week 2015-09-17 and subsequently 2015-09-24, and then in October 1, 8, 15, 22, 29?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell her that when I see her next
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pfefferle good morning indieweb
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petermolnar good morning
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pfefferle good morning petermolnar
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tantek good late evening #indiewebcamp!
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tantek is anyone here posting their replies to FB posts on their own site and then manually POSSEing those "comments" / "likes" to FB?
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tantek.com edited /User:Tantek.com (+121) "/* indieweb community */ projects - expand based on micropub support" (view diff)
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Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb!
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@tommorris @AlisonW @mseckington here's the alternative. https://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/643361736305831936)
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Zegnat Wow, the event page for 09-17 doesn’t exist?
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rhiaro !tell tantek: I should think so, I'll update wiki later
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Loqi rhiaro: tantek left you a message 2 days, 7 hours ago: can you document the issues you're running into on /repost#Issues ? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-09-11/line/1442025391189
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Loqi rhiaro: tantek left you a message 2 days, 7 hours ago: in particular, the questions/issues you're running into are *very* key only-real-world-observable issues that are essential to the empirical methods we use in #indiewebcamp (and #microformats) in contrast to the more philosophically wishful methods of attempting to pre-define everything a priori that some other efforts attempt (and fail to touch on real world problems). http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-09-11/line/1442025844957
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Loqi rhiaro: tantek left you a message 4 hours, 26 minutes ago: is there a HWC Edinburgh this week 2015-09-17 and subsequently 2015-09-24, and then in October 1, 8, 15, 22, 29? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-09-13/line/1442210204889
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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tantek Zegnat, worry not, the future will be consistent soon.
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Loqi tantek: rhiaro left you a message 17 minutes ago: I should think so, I'll update wiki later http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-09-14/line/1442226190839
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Zegnat tantek: is there some way to have MediaWiki auto-populate those pages?
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tantek not in any way that would decrease work. that is, then you introduce the maintenance task of whatever auto-population mechanism you come up with.
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tantek and currently HWC events are iterating/evolving sufficiently quickly, in content, structure, presentation, that it would be more work to attempt to update those aspects in an auto-population mechanism, than to "just" update them upon manual copy/paste
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tantek such premature automation can result in both more work and less reliability as a result
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tantek also - such maintenance typically decreases the buscount (# of people that can do the maintenance) as compared to copy/paste, thus introducing a community bottleneck
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rhiaro tantek: from 1st Oct tbrb will be in charge of HWC Edinburgh
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rhiaro is pretty sure tbrb agreed to this at some point
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rhiaro Well, I said it in IRC now so it must be true
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tantek rhiaro: cool - when you're sure, and know the schedule (weekly, biweekly), go ahead and move Edinburgh from "Getting Started" to "Regular Meetings" http://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club#Regular_Meetings'
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tantek (along with note of changeover in organizer(s))
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rhiaro will do
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tantek thanks!
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tbrb rhiaro: Yes, I did
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tbrb This week is return to normality now freshers is over, I have a regular timetable etc now
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rhiaro tbrb: Had ideas for a new venue? And want to keep doing it weekly, or go bi-weekly?
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rhiaro This week is freshers for UoE, but I don't think I've been roped into helping with anything
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tbrb I've been keeping an eye open but nothing has sprung to mind re venue, anywhere that I've thought of has been closing at like 5pm
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rhiaro Yeah, same
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rhiaro Maybe we could scout space downstairs in Potterow at that time, see if it's fairly empty, there's power and wifi
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Zegnat Hmm, this thursday is also the 25th First Annual Ig Nobel Prize Ceremony, maybe someone wants to incorporate that into their HWC activities? Probably only relevant for US timezone ones. Possibly Edinburgh also, where they do HWC for 10 hours straight.
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rhiaro haha
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rhiaro camerongray: do you think Forrest Hill would work for HWC? Maybe too busy at the start of term
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rhiaro We can talk about this later anyway, I should be working
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Loqi [bridgy] Melinda Seckington replied '@tommorris I get your point, but that's not what I'm concerned about. I want to share the slides in a way that allows people to see [cont.]' to a tweet https://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (https://twitter.com/mseckington/status/643364029390524416)
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Loqi [mention] Matthias Pfefferle posted "Die Renaissance des Pingbacks" http://notizblog.org/2013/07/08/die-renaissance-des-pingbacks/ that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/comments https://webmention.io/notification/DOuhiQZduVmSQj_yRM0I0g
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tbrb rhiaro: If all else fails I can get space here at Merchiston instead
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rhiaro tbrb: Probably okay, see how camerongray, geng, moredhel and other central-based regulars feel though
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tbrb yeah
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rhiaro it's a wee bit far
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tbrb hence the "if all else fails"
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rhiaro maybe moredhel and KitB can host it in their house..
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tantek.com edited /venue (+1947) "capture venue brainstorming from IRC 2015-09-01" (view diff)
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camerongray rhiaro: FH is fine, loads of space
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@hancock_steven Data collection for the office could give you immediate feedback #ownYourData #feedback #bigData http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/how-new-data-collection-technology-might-change-office-culture-1.3196065 (twitter.com/_/status/643392859450638336)
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@BigDataTweetBot RT @hancock_steven: Data collection for the office could give you immediate feedback #ownYourData #feedback #bigData http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/how-new-data-collection-technology-might-change-office-culture-1.3196065 (twitter.com/_/status/643394172498640896)
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@dkreuz RT @MatthewDiIulio: More people should use #IndieWeb. (twitter.com/_/status/643404769290256384)
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@MatthewDiIulio @benthomaspayne Check out http://t.co/vIA2X30SAb. Their CMS uses components of Indie Web. This is a good explanation: http://indiewebcamp.com (twitter.com/_/status/643409845891276800)
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@eduardostalinho @MatthewDiIulio added me to a list. And I found something significant called #IndieWeb. Searching... (twitter.com/_/status/643428402767204352)
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@benthomaspayne @MatthewDiIulio Perhaps the #IndieWeb movement is about educating people that, in most cases, they do own their content… (twitter.com/_/status/643436547677618179)
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vanderven.se martijn uploaded /File:youtube_export_subscriptions.png "Screenshot from YouTube’s subscription manager at <code>https://www.youtube.com/subscription_manager</code>."
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vanderven.se martijn edited /OPML (+323) "/* Silo Examples */ YouTube" (view diff)
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Zegnat Hmm, I hoped <code> would make it so that URL would not be auto-linked by mediawiki, but it still was. Is there any way to have the wiki not auto-link a URL?
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/help
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aaronpk which links to https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Links#How_to_avoid_auto-links
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Zegnat aaronpk: don’t know how I missed that, thanks!
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vanderven.se martijn edited /File:youtube_export_subscriptions.png (+4) (view diff)
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@withknown RT @ChrisAldrich: A year ago I began using @WithKnown. Along with #IndieWeb it's how I've always thought the web should work. Thanks IndieW… (twitter.com/_/status/643455752426778624)
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aaronpk hmm another idea for indienews
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aaronpk seeing what Medium does with their collections or magazines or whatever they call them
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aaronpk they made one for XOXO, so people are writing blog posts, then adding them to the medium collection
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aaronpk https://medium.com/xoxo
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tantek "they" - so curated?
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tantek sounds like a multi-author blog (medium.com) that someone created a "collection" post for - is there anything more than that?
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aaronpk anyone can write a post on their own medium account, and then submit it for inclusion to https://medium.com/xoxo
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tantek how do they submit it?
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tantek and hey - we should be able to be *more* responsive with the wiki
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tantek e.g.
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tantek what is XOXO?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "XOXO" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/102n
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tantek ^^^ there you go aaronpk, step one, create that.
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tantek (a wiki stub is easier to create than writing a bunch more code, designing UX etc.)
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tantek (heck, you can brainstorm that "another idea for indienews" *on* that wiki stub itself)
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aaronpk ah they call them "publications"
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/uploads/medium-add-to-publication-20150914-095305.png
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tantek and they call blog posts "stories", i.e. from medium.com/xoxo : About / XOXO 2015 / Stories from the intersection of independent art and technology, and the challenges that come from it.
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aaronpk XOXO is a conference in Portland, Oregon.
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loqi.me created /XOXO (+68) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-09-14/line/1442249484210 and dfn added by aaronpk" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek.com edited /XOXO (+8) "annual" (view diff)
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aaronpk well sort of :P
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aaronpk every year is the "last" year until it isn't
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tantek aaronpk: based on all evidence to date :D
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tantek "is" is more optimistic than "was"
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tantek even though "was" is all you can be certain of
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aaronpk haha
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aaronpk the Slack account for the conference was amazing. looks like someone is going to be doing an article about it so I'll add the link to it once it's published
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tantek yes - that's perhaps the biggest part that I felt FOMO about
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aaronpk lots of fascinating behavior emerged from it, and really demonstrated a new way of interacting with people in the context of the event
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voxpelli aaronpk: replicating that style through "u-category" linking to the publication maybe? or thinking of adding publications to Indienews?
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aaronpk thinking indienews would be the "publication", so it would just be a different view of the articles instead of the time-ordered list
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voxpelli ah, you were thinking presentation rather than how to publish to it
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aaronpk yeah
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tantek aaronpk - re: u-category being any kind of object on the other end - yes that's intentional by design! person-tags are just the first use-case
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tantek we can do venue tagging this way too for example
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tantek and I agree that there is more work to figure out on the consuming code side of things
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tantek h-card implied type caching and what not
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[snarfed] ooh reply context as a service! https://github.com/kylewm/forkontext
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Zegnat tantek: "nobody will actually access your pictures randomly" <-- this is false - search engines may still index them if someone direct links to them from HTML (from #indiechat) --- yes, but such is the nature of sharing, if I share an unlisted blog post with you, of course you can share it further. These URLs are not replacements for passwords, neither are they meant to be one-time-use. Unguessable URLs are meant to stay available, like we
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Zegnat expect URLs to.
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[snarfed] the project tantek kept nudging me to build and i kept refusing :P
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tantek wait what
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tantek misread that as "project tantek" and wondered whose project he was.
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tantek wow: https://github.com/kylewm/forkontext thanks for the heads-up snarfed. didn't realize I nudged you even more than once about it!
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tantek kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 237 karma
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tantek zegnat - do you have a citation for "unguessable URL" ?
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Zegnat https://www.theverge.com/2015/6/23/8830977/google-photos-security-public-url-privacy-protected
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Zegnat Bruce Schneier confirming its validity as security measure: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/07/googles_unguess.html
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[snarfed] interesting too, kylewm's project is js, client side only. (?) smart!
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voxpelli [snarfed]: embed with JS? because server side code looks like python
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Zegnat http://www.w3.org/TR/capability-urls/ (as linked by rhiaro in #indiechat) also lists some examples of unguessable URLs, though it seems to be more aimed at URLs to replace passwords and possibly only be temporary, while unguessable URLs like from Google are meant like real URLs, a fixed location for a resource that is meant to be shared.
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Zegnat Shared, but not been able to automatically collect or guess
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tantek.com edited /XOXO (+238) "Articles, see also" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Medium (+89) "/* Features */" (view diff)
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Zegnat What is an unguessable URL?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "unguessable URL" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/102p
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Zegnat an unguessable URL is a URL meant to be shared around without being guessed by crawlers or other uninvited parties.
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loqi.me created /unguessable_URL (+139) "prompted by Zegnat https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-09-14/line/1442253301205 and dfn added by Zegnat" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek.com edited /XOXO (+23) "curators are known as editors and listed publicly" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /reply-context (+321) "/* Brainstorming */ Fork On Text" (view diff)
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aaronpk neat
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snarfed fwiw unguessable URLs are fairly common. we use them in my day job (as one layer of security), we take security very seriously since we handle health data, and we're ok with them
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snarfed "part of a balanced breakfast," etc
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Zegnat I am not sure I would ever put health info behind anything other than a password, but yeah, they should be fine
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tantek huh
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snarfed "layer" was the key word there, and we don't give them to users, they're just internal, but still
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Zegnat oh, internal I can definitely see them working great
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voxpelli as long as one can reset or time-limit the unguessable URL then it can be pretty safe
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snarfed yup expiration is key
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aaronpk time-limited and resettable URLs are basically just bearer tokens at that point
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snarfed (revoking is harder, but doable)
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snarfed yup!
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snarfed they scare people since they're URLs, but yes, same in reality
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Zegnat The way I see unguessable URLs they aren’t meant to ever be time-limited. And they are revokable only by removing whatever they point to. That’s how GitHub secret gists work, and Google photos
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tantek seems like "scary" might be a feature for unguessable URLs - because you want to discourage sharing and clicking by others
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snarfed heh no they're mainly just scary to us
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snarfed "normal"/non-technical users are different
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voxpelli eg. Google Calendar use unguessable , but resetable, URL:s to expose private calendars
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tantek snarfed: that's not my experience with "normal" users
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tantek the only URLs I've seen normal users share with lots of random numbers/letters are google.com URLs
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tantek e.g. Google docs, Google maps
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snarfed tantek: fair enough. generalizations, etc
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tantek snarfed: well it's an interesting exception
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tantek it's almost like the google brand overrides the mistrust of the random gibberish
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snarfed but it may also mean that secret URLs aren't that common, or aren't shared widely (success!), etc
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tantek also - by having consistently gibberish-full URLs, Google may have set expectations that (low)
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snarfed eh i expect "normal" users think less about URLs across the board than we think
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snarfed but this is all speculation i guess
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tantek snarfed: it's not a "think" response, it's an emotional disgust response at the random gibberish
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snarfed i understand your argument. we just disagree. that's ok :P
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snarfed but it is a fair point
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Zegnat I guess I’ll just roll with them on my blog and see what happens. All about being easy for the implementator (that is, me being lazy)
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tantek definitely worth a user study, e.g. URLs in email, to track click-through rates
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tantek Zegnat - "All about being easy for the implementator" - then consider long term "easy" instead of short term expediency
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Zegnat running on 2 separate URL structures just doesn’t seem easy in any way, tantek. 1 for listed and 1 for unlisted posts versus 1 for all posts.
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tantek Zegnat - good question - I have insufficient data to offer an opinion on that either way!
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tantek for me, the prospect of posting /checkins is pushing my "unlisted" or private posts
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tantek also considering segmenting some /photo posts as "unlisted"
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tantek per the insights documented here: http://indiewebcamp.com/publics#Tantek
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tantek does anyone here segment their photos into "in-stream / fully public" and "unlisted" or "private" on their own site? and if so, how/what are you doing? with what UI/project?
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snarfed even just whether to include photos (or any posts) in front page stream/feeds or not is a surprisingly useful distinction
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Zegnat The unguessable part I am interested in stems from /YYYY/DDD/N/ becoming guessable. I can just try every N between 0 and 100 to find the ones you didn’t put publicly in the feed. So you need some other and unpredictable way to link to them
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Loqi [mention] AlisonW liked https://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths https://webmention.io/notification/NvmPkr4d9gVXxuJkaWnLmw
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snarfed i intentionally *don't* put most of my posts, replies, photos, etc on my front page feed so they don't draw attention
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snarfed benwerd and i had a deeper thread discussing this. finding
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aaronpk most of my content is not on my home page feed, but all of it is findable by clicking around from my home page
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aaronpk (with the exception of the actual private messages my site supports)
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snarfed definitely. i feel strongly about keeping my front page/feeds low volume and curating the content there
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snarfed while still posting lots of other stuff that search engines can find
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Zegnat do your private messages have public (unfindable/unguessable) URLs, aaronpk?
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snarfed different publics a la tantek's recenty interest
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snarfed http://werd.io/2015/publish-on-your-own-site-reflect-inwardly#comments
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aaronpk Zegnat: no they are protected by indieauth
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tantek snarfed - indeed the "recent interest" was a combination of KevinMarks actually documenting /publics on the wiki, and a side-effect of me starting to post *some* /photo posts on my own site!
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voxpelli I neither publish repliesm notes and such on my front page – but it's all discoverable
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snarfed.org edited /original-post-discovery (-119) "/* Brainstorming */ start to revise heuristics. more to come!" (view diff)
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Zegnat snarfed: http://werd.io/2015/publish-on-your-own-site-reflect-inwardly#comments is really interesting, but I sometimes write posts that are meant to spread in a word-of-mouth fashion within certain circles without people or searchengines accidentally discovering them. But of course that is just my specific use-case.
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tantek realizing that I had feelings of greater comfort with some photos being posted "just" to Instagram rather than putting them all on my homepage, despite not feeling any discomfort with posting all my replies/RSVps to my home page
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aaronpk definitely
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Zegnat What make photos different, tantek?
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tantek Zegnat - it's a mix of the medium, and the apparent specific audience I seem to have acquired on IG
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tantek I'm still reflecting on it to gain further insights, but there's definitely some interesting emotional design aspects at play there that are worthy of greater understanding / documentation.
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tantek.com edited /publics (+376) "/* IndieWeb Thoughts */ benwerd's thoughts and post, via snarfed" (view diff)
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voxpelli I have a general feeling of lesser comfort in posting stuff now that social media is so common and the smaller early adopter communities have vanished. In there I knew people much better, now it's much more anonymous and public
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tantek !tell snarfed is "subpost" a thing? or are you trying to make it a thing? per your usage: http://werd.io/2015/publish-on-your-own-site-reflect-inwardly#comments
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek voxpelli: that's a great observation - could you capture that in a new subsection here? https://indiewebcamp.com/publics#IndieWeb_Thoughts
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aaronpk voxpelli: that's why these private communities like Slack provides are so interesting to me
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tantek that notion of evolving publics is an interesting external driver
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voxpelli aaronpk: very true
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tantek aaronpk: they're interesting, but they're also particularly vulnerable to becoming monoculture-like echo chambers.
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tantek what is a subpost?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "subpost" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/102q
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tantek since he was the only person that used the term on benwerd's blog post, I'll wait for him to return to define it.
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tantek ironic that the last "comment" on benwerd's post is rhiaro "resharing" it - which of course potentially greatly expands the "public" of that post, especially if rhiaro POSSEs her repost!
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voxpelli not sure monoculture-like echo chambers are always a bad thing – sometimes its needed for some ideas to evolve – as long as one is not confined to only a few monocultures it can probably be somewhat healthy
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tantek voxpelli: as long as it is ephemeral it can be very useful. it's the long-term monoculture inertia that's particularly bad
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aaronpk I wouldn't be so quick to call them a bad thing either. I've been a member of some private facebook groups which have been extremely helpful. They are private for various reasons.
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tantek ok that's a fair / different characterization
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tantek I have some positive input on that too: https://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#Private_Groups
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tallpaul re Facebook, since I have a child one thing I have noticed a lot recently is the pre-photo conversation establishing what the different participants are comfortable with in terms of where and how stuff gets posted/tagged, defining an acceptable consensus/who to includes
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tallpaul its a limited but quite sophisticated understanding of publics
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tantek tallpaul - I definitely encourage you to share that, even just what you wrote, incomplete or not, on https://indiewebcamp.com/publics#IndieWeb_Thoughts
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aaronpk I just got invited to yet another slack team
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aaronpk which might be the tipping point for me to set up POSSE to slack
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paulmunday.net created /Template:paulmunday (+62) "Created page with "<span class="h-card">[[User:paulmunday.net|PaulMunday]]</span>"" (view diff)
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paulmunday.net edited /publics (+551) "The "Facebook" Conversation" (view diff)
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snarfed.org edited /original-post-discovery (+550) "/* Brainstorming */ counterexample to "near the end" heuristic" (view diff)
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snarfed.org edited /original-post-discovery (+570) "/* edit distance */ counterexample" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] I used icky google URLs for willsomeone because it was easy as a quick hack, pending making a proper url shortener
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[kevinmarks] thye look like http://ask.willsomeone.com/showask?askid=ag5zfndpbGwtc29tZW9uZXIlCxIHQXNrbGlzdCIIaW5kaWV3ZWIMCxIDQXNrGICAgIDglYMKDA
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Loqi [kevinmarks]: tantek left you a message on 9/12 at 1:20am: re: "audience perception of they public they see when commenting". Good point, I have tried to expand upon and describe that different "public" here: https://indiewebcamp.com/publics#Author_vs_commenter_publics please review again to see if that is what you were hinting at, and double-check my assertions/assumptions/implications. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-09-12/line/1442046011592
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[kevinmarks] Chris liked that as they were unguessable URLs
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tantek kevinmarks - cool. let me know when you've had a chance to read https://indiewebcamp.com/publics#Author_vs_commenter_publics
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Zegnat [kevinmarks]: unguessable indeed, 72 characters is a huge pool, probably way more than is needed. My unguessable post links are going to be shorter. Thinking more like 30 chars at most
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aaronpk if I did my math right, 10 newbase60 chars is equivalent to 128 bits which should be plenty
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tantek :D
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[kevinmarks] well, they're not random; snarfed knows how to decode them into database keys
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[kevinmarks] hm, voxpelli, is it possible to delete webmentions?
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[kevinmarks] I have some nasty ones from twitter on my xoxofest posts
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Zegnat aaronpk: I’ll be running the numbers tomorrow to see how long I really need it to be if I post 10 things per day for 50 years and still want to guarantee only a 1 in 10^x chance of someone guessing an ID
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tantek kevinmarks see /block and add to /block#Brainstorming
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tantek also
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tantek what is moderation?
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Loqi Moderation is the process of holding comments for review by a human https://indiewebcamp.com/moderation
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tantek hmm - KevinMarks ^^^ perhaps add your use-case to that
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aaronpk Zegnat: nice
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tantek (though I think that dfn deserves expansion, moderation can also be done after the fact)
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Zegnat for now, I am off for bed. Have a good night all!
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Loqi gute nacht!
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[kevinmarks] in this case it is brid.gy and <http://webmention.herokuapp.com|webmention.herokuapp.com> bringing them in together, so it's not clear where I should mark them as unwanted
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kevinmarks.com edited /moderation (+422) "/* Moderation Status */" (view diff)
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tantek kevinmarks - why not both?
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aaronpk bridgy doesn't store them, so it sounds like it is the job of webmention.herokuapp
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[kevinmarks] oh, I thought bridgy had the intermediate ones for tweets
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tantek it does
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tantek would be useful for Bridgy to support blocklists
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tantek e.g. if you blocked an account on Twitter, it shouldn't be able to @-reply to you via Bridgy
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[kevinmarks] most of the bile was pointed at individual tweets, not the posse links
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tantek right, so if you block the bile from the account of the tweets that the bile was pointed at, that should work
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kylewm man, kevinmarks i noticed you were getting a lot of attention from a certain alliterative group
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[kevinmarks] does that fit with how bridgy works? I'm not sure if bridgy logs in as me when fetching my replies
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[kevinmarks] er, uses my oauth permission I mean
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@_crossdiver I love pinning @neocitiesweb sites to my local #IPFS node. The #indieweb just keeps getting cooler. (twitter.com/_/status/643554553892204545)
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[kevinmarks] well, I was live tweeting xoxo, where they were discussed
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kylewm pretty sure bridgy uses your oauth credentials for fetching replies to your posts
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kylewm very curious what that means for blocked accounts
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aaronpk i believe blocked accounts won't show up in the list of replies on twitter
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aaronpk but I know bridgy uses other tricks to find things, not just the regular api method, so not sure how that changes it
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kylewm it searches twitter for @kevinmarks, but it does so using your api key
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aaronpk ah the search api doesn't take in to account the blocks
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kylewm oh really?
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kylewm well that's kinda dumb
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aaronpk indeed
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aaronpk a side effect of the search api actually having been acquired and not built orignally by twitter
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[kevinmarks] so you'd have to fetch my block list and filter it
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KartikPrabhu one can have a block list on their own site and reject bridgy webmentions if the author is in the block-list ?
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aaronpk of course.
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aaronpk it does seem reasonable that bridgy would take a twitter blocklist into account tho
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aaronpk not to make more work for them or anything :P
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kylewm i'm into it
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kylewm that sounds like a lot more fun than what snarfed's doing
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[kevinmarks] Kartik, as I am lazy and delegate that part to webmention.herokuapp.com, it's more question fo who I get to add features to their service, kyle or voxpelli
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kylewm well this is confusing "Snowflake is a service we will be using to generate unique Tweet IDs"
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kylewm would bridgy also need to send 410's for people who are blocked some time after a response is backfed?
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kylewm is surprised to have almost 1400 people blocked
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[kevinmarks] I assume so - if I block that dude with the hitler avatar now, It would be good if it removed his comment
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[kevinmarks] though that means being sure voxpelli updates too
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[kevinmarks] so both services end up needing tombstone records
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tantek agreed