#indiewebcamp 2015-09-21

2015-09-21 UTC
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GWG This has potential: https://make.wordpress.org/core/2015/09/21/wp-rest-api-merge-proposal/
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GWG Might change the way Webmention and Micropub endpoints are implemented under WordPress
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GWG tantek: Your moderation idea has sparked a followup thought, by the way.
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GWG That to auto-approve likes and favorites, the first like from the person should be approved. To avoid bad actors.
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GWG is watching aaronpk explain Micropub at OS Bridge
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kartikprabhu.com edited /Site_name (+45) "/* Indieweb Examples */" (view diff)
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petermolnar good morning, indieweb
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petermolnar had anyone played with a raspberry pi 2 + wifi here? Turns out my pi2 is stable, unlike the wifi dongle, which is probably one of the flakiest devices I've ever had
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petermolnar and I wonder if there's a type of usb wifi connector that actually works stable on the pi2 without a powered hub
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Jeena petermolnar, I was using this one https://jeena.net/images/2014/usb-wifi.jpg but you need to install special drivers for that
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Jeena and I have used it on ArchLinuxArm not on Raspbrian.
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petermolnar the one I use looks similar, however, the chipset is RTL 8192CU which sucks on all possible levels
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petermolnar do you know what the chipset was in yours?
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Jeena no idea, sorry
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Jeena btw. for non-indieweb diescussions like this we should move to #indiechat instead
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petermolnar ? that's new
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Jeena not really
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Loqi [mention] someone wrote a post that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Smallest_Federated_Wiki https://webmention.io/notification/sS-me61AHgac4MEOBGUvKg
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Loqi [mention] someone wrote a post that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Smallest_Federated_Wiki https://webmention.io/notification/0lXUQio8UJnM1rL_5sXIJA
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voxpelli Jeena: about wednesday – should we try to do the SWAT0-thing or push for it? Realizing I haven't got all parts done yet so I would have to fix my last few today/tomorrow then
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voxpelli s/push for it/push it to another day/
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Loqi voxpelli meant to say: Jeena: about wednesday – should we try to do the SWAT0-thing or push it to another day? Realizing I haven't got all parts done yet so I would have to fix my last few today/tomorrow then
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Jeena voxpelli, no sorry I'm not ready at all, I haven't had a evening for myself last week so I wasn't able to work on it at all. The next two weeks look better for that matter, I don't have them as planned at the last two so I will perhaps be able to do it then.
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voxpelli Jeena: lets sync up when we both feel ready then :) You were going to target actor A, right?
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Jeena A or/and B could be my goal
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tantek sounds fun!
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Jeena tantek, we're trying to do a Swedish or at least Scandinavian SWAT0
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tantek awesome!
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Jeena but it's not as easy as it would sound ^^
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voxpelli I'm almost ready for both A and B – just needs some small extra finishing touches like explicitly parsing person-tags and making real push notifications
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Jeena My biggest concern are the salmentions, sending is easy and I got that working, but receiving and correctly showing them everywhere is more complicated
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Jeena is a email also a push notification?
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voxpelli Yeah, I think that's why we probably said I could do that part first
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Jeena or does one need like a real push service to some mobile phone or something?
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voxpelli Jeena: I don't think so :P I'm not even sure RSS + Pubsubhubbub linked to IFTTT truly qualifies – that's what I'm aiming for
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voxpelli if one has an Android one could always do the Chrome push notifications
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voxpelli should work on desktop as well
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tantek I think ben_thatmustbeme has Chrome push notifications working on Android
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Jeena I mean aaronpk only used this prowl thingy
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tantek you can also now get Firefox push notifications on Android too!
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voxpelli tantek: using the new same standard as Chrome?
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tantek (same Web Notifications standard)
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Jeena oh that sounds awesome, do you have a link?
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ben_thatmustbeme I did, but it seems like it quickly forgets you on mobile
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voxpelli cool!
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ben_thatmustbeme still works on chrome for desktop though
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ben_thatmustbeme and there have been updates since then
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tantek Jeean - yes - get the Firefox for Android alpha/aurora download
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tantek s/Jeean/Jeena
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Loqi tantek meant to say: Jeena - yes - get the Firefox for Android alpha/aurora download
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tantek is on a telcon
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voxpelli Jeena: I think this is a good guide: http://updates.html5rocks.com/2015/03/push-notificatons-on-the-open-web
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ben_thatmustbeme my next hope it to write my own notification service, so I don't need to use Google Cloud Messaging servers
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ben_thatmustbeme Jeena: This is the one I used https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2015/03/push-notificatons-on-the-open-web?hl=en
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voxpelli ben_thatmustbeme: I thought all browsers for now would require that one uses their notification services? to keep battery consumption down on mobile
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tantek what is Google Cloud Messaging?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Google Cloud Messaging" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/1032
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tantek what are push notifications?
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Loqi A push notification (AKA client notification) is a notification that shows up on one or more of your client devices without you having to explicitly request it — it's "pushed" to you, instead of you having to poll for it https://indiewebcamp.com/push_notifications
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tantek voxpelli, ben_thatmustbeme could you add those links to ^^^
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ben_thatmustbeme voxpelli: I don't know, haven't had time to really dig in to it too much, I know the Push API is really new and still missing a lot of things
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voxpelli it's apparently the same link – Google just decided to not redirect the one I mentioned to the one ben_thatmustbeme mentioned
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voxpelli ben_thatmustbeme: think Google have mentioned that they at least not initially supported other services
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voxpelli ben_thatmustbeme: will you add?
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ben_thatmustbeme voxpelli: i'll ad it
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ben_thatmustbeme s/ad/add/
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: voxpelli: i'll add it
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Jeena thanks
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@nxD4n #Warum #wieso #weshalb @diplix das macht #indieweb https://www.youtube.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/645966638014185472)
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tantek Jeena: could yo update the Göteborg location on https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-09-23-homebrew-website-club ?
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tantek adactio, is there a HWC meetup in Brighton this week? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-09-23-homebrew-website-club#Where
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tantek voxpelli: how about Malmö ?
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tantek works on SF
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voxpelli tantek: unfortunately we will have to skip this weeks
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tantek voxpelli: maybe note that in the "Where" section explicitly? And then mention when the next one is you expect to have
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voxpelli Yeah, not sure about that either – may be that we move to Thursday's like Edinburgh
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tantek just got MozSF for this week
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tantek voxpelli: that's fine - just set an expectation either way
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: IIRC it's technically possible to run a separate push notification service on android, but afaik nobody actually does that because GCM is optimized so well and provides a decent API
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tantek what is GCM?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "GCM" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/1033
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aaronpk GCM is [[Google Cloud Messaging]]
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loqi.me created /GCM (+35) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-09-21/line/1442848485298 and dfn added by aaronpk" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek.com edited /events/2015-09-23-homebrew-website-club (-454) "SF location confirmed @MozSF - main room 1st floor! RSVP" (view diff)
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tantek !tell kylewm could you create an indie event for this week's HWC in SF @MozSF and FB POSSE copy and link-up "indie event, Facebook POSSE copy" in https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-09-23-homebrew-website-club#San_Francisco ? Thanks!
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bear aaronpk - yea, writing your own push notification service is a road of pain because you won't get cycles from the android core networking stack if your app goes idle or is forced into low power state
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tantek Loqi?
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tantek hmm
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aaronpk wow major freenode lag or something
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aaronpk or maybe Linode lag which is where my irc client and alos Loqi live
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk oh, scheduled network maintenance http://status.linode.com/
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@diplix @nxD4n http://webmention.io/api/mentions?perPage=200&page=0&target[]=http://wirres.net/article/articleview/8576/1/6/ ("activity":{"type":"link"}) (twitter.com/_/status/645980404151943168)
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@diplix @nxD4n jetzt isses da: http://webmention.io/api/mentions?perPage=200&page=0&target[]=http://wirres.net/article/articleview/8576/1/6/ (twitter.com/_/status/645978748186193920)
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Loqi [mention] Kyle Mahan wrote a post that linked to an event: "Homebrew Website Club Meetup" https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-09-23-homebrew-website-club https://webmention.io/notification/Ohgdvw9__166hAnaEIN_aA
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tantek !tell rhiaro is HWC Edi on for 2015-09-24? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-09-24-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell her that when I see her next
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tantek !tell Jeena could yo update the Göteborg location on https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-09-23-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm.com edited /events/2015-09-23-homebrew-website-club (+107) "/* San Francisco */" (view diff)
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kylewm tantek: donezo
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Loqi kylewm: tantek left you a message 15 minutes ago: could you create an indie event for this week's HWC in SF @MozSF and FB POSSE copy and link-up "indie event, Facebook POSSE copy" in https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-09-23-homebrew-website-club#San_Francisco ? Thanks! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-09-21/line/1442848610026
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tantek kylewm++ !
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Loqi kylewm has 239 karma
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kylewm in terms of "manual til it hurts", posting and posseing HWC events is starting to hurt ;)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /push_notification (+427) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add me" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /push_notification (+146) "/* Brainstorming */ add link to info on PushAPI in chrome" (view diff)
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tantek kylewm: and RSVPd
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tantek kylewm: we're still stuck on https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/274 right?
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tantek should we try Eventbrite instead?
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tantek https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/275 ?
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tantek (since lots of people seem to use Eventbrite - and it seems to be good at getting people to show up to events - e.g. with reminders etc.)
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tantek (and tells people their friends are going)
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tantek more: http://indiewebcamp.com/event#POSSE
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voxpelli anyone heard anything about the new Upcoming.org and it's possibility for indiewebiness?
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tantek voxpelli: nothing new - I think there are issues on their github?
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tantek what is upcoming.org?
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Loqi Upcoming, also known as Upcoming.org was (perhaps) the first social event sharing silo, then acquired and shutdown by Yahoo, and is now in the process of being recreated, currently open source on github at https://github.com/upcoming/upcoming-www https://indiewebcamp.com/Upcoming.org
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kodfabrik.se edited /events/2015-09-23-homebrew-website-club (+107) "Note about Malmö status" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /event (+226) "/* POSSE */ add notes about why POSSE to eventbrite" (view diff)
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tantek voxpelli: might be good to brainstorm what's the best approach to take with Upcoming.org beyond just asking them to be indieweb /friendly
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tantek because it is so new / in development - there is still a chance of making it more "natively" indieweb rather than just "compatible"
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voxpelli being able to import external events and keeping up to date with them – kind of like an IndieNews for events – would be interesting
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tantek.com edited /Upcoming.org (+130) "stub Brainstorming" (view diff)
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voxpelli and a way to allow people who don't have their own websites to still RSVP to indie events
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tantek voxpelli: I think we can do better than "import"
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tantek I for one really dislike manual processes like that
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aaronpk now that xoxo is over Andy is gonna get back to work on upcoming.org :)
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tantek but these are very good starting points
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voxpelli tantek: indienews isn't that manual though
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tantek I just stubbed this section - please add *all* your suggestions :) https://indiewebcamp.com/Upcoming.org#Brainstorming
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tantek when we come up with semi-concrete suggestions, we can open github issues on the upcoming repo
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tantek your suggestions are all good voxpelli please add them to https://indiewebcamp.com/Upcoming.org#Brainstorming !
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voxpelli I'm on it
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kodfabrik.se edited /Upcoming.org (+474) "Adding some thoughts" (view diff)
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voxpelli three thoughts added :)
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voxpelli tantek: don't remember – do we typically sign brainstorms with our username?
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tantek not usually no - unless you feel the usage is only personally-applicable
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voxpelli in this case: very non personally-applicable – events are still on my todo :P
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tantek like, "I would do this, but I wouldn't expect many if any others to do so"
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tantek same same
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voxpelli really like the idea of an RSVP Webactions fallback though :)
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tantek kylewm: since you're feeling the manual pain of POSSE to FB - maybe you have some ideas for how it would "ideally" work with an event aggregator that you could add to? https://indiewebcamp.com/Upcoming.org#Brainstorming
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tantek ooh yeah - RSVP webaction fallbacks would be great
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adactio tantek: not sure if there'll be a Homebrew Website Club meetup this week: I'll be away, and Charlotte isn't feeling well, so it depends how she's feeling by Wednesday.
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tantek adactio: ok we'll leave it TBD for now then. Please wish Charlotte get well soon from us regardless!
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adactio tantek: will do.
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tantek so far this week's HWC cities spell GPS (Göteborg, Portland, San Francisco)
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tantek perhaps we should talk about /location :)
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tantek btw - for every HWC - I also have to manually edit this wiki: https://wiki.mozilla.org/WeeklyUpdates/2015-09-21#Wednesday.2C_23_September
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tantek (different page for each date obv, but you get the idea)
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tantek just adding to kylewm's note about manual pain of create/POSSE events
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tantek and I have to create a separate event in the Mozilla internal calendar just to reserve the space for it in the 1st floor MozSF common area
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (+15) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ update known cities/dates for HWC this week" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2015-09-23-homebrew-website-club (+395) "/* What */ add topics section for folks to capture subjects ahead of time" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] Tantek Çelik RSVPd yes to an event: "Homebrew Website Club Meetup" https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-09-23-homebrew-website-club https://webmention.io/notification/Rtmux_HvzRLv7C11ba0YuQ
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paulmunday.net edited /Upcoming.org (-1) "/* Domain Return and Archive Links */ fixed typo" (view diff)
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aaronpk btw andy is writing upcoming.org in python, so I hope that people here who know python can jump in to help :)
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paulmunday.net edited /Upcoming.org (+78) "Added link to IndieWeb Event page on upcoming wiki" (view diff)
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snarfed re POSSEing HWC events to FB...obligatory: i know we don't like PESOS as much, but that is always an option too!
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snarfed ownyourevents anyone? :P
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tantek what is ownyourevents?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "ownyourevents" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/1034
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aaronpk ownyourevents is a hypothetical service that copies silo events to your own site via micropub
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loqi.me created /ownyourevents (+120) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-09-21/line/1442858490169 and dfn added by aaronpk" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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aaronpk :)
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tantek.com edited /events/2015-09-23-homebrew-website-club (+66) "/* Homebrew Website Club Meetup */ unsure vs. happening" (view diff)
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rhiaro Will be HWC Edinburgh, tbrb you should practice making the wiki page.. My last one
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Loqi rhiaro: tantek left you a message 2 hours, 49 minutes ago: is HWC Edi on for 2015-09-24? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-09-24-homebrew-website-club http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-09-21/line/1442849466724
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tantek rhiaro++ for mentorring her replacement
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Loqi rhiaro has 163 karma
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rhiaro tbrb: also your call to change venue
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rhiaro !tell tbrb: scroll up to 19:23 for important messages..
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KevinMarks voxpelli: re upcoming.org I chatted ot any briefly about ti before xoxo and he is intersted in what indieweb can do to help it
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KevinMarks s/any/Andy/
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Loqi KevinMarks meant to say: voxpelli: re upcoming.org I chatted ot Andy briefly about ti before xoxo and he is intersted in what indieweb can do to help it
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voxpelli KevinMarks: cool!
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KevinMarks that reminds me, I had a good caht there to jamie from medium, so working through what changes we coudl amke to medium to be more indieweb friendsly would eb helpful too
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tantek KevinMarks: could you tell if he's trying to make a service/tool for himself & friends (like he originally did with Upcoming) or is he trying to make it mass-market right out of the box?
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aaronpk my understanding is he's trying to make a full replacement for the previous upcoming.org, including restoring all the events that used to be there
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tantek if that was all - a read-only replacement would do
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aaronpk no, full functional replacement
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tantek but given the handwringing over identity (as he's published in the kickstarter update posts), there's obviously more to it
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tantek the previous upcoming just became a place fo spamming events by self-promoters of snakeoil pay-for seminars and webinars
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tantek all of which made it to the home page of Upcoming because the actual user community had long since bailed
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tantek it was Scott Beale that first pointed out to me that people had shifted to using FB for events instead of Upcoming (and this was before I logged back into FB and started using it )
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tantek (~2008-2009 I think)
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Loqi [mention] Kevin Marks RSVPd yes to an event: "Homebrew Website Club Meetup" https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-09-23-homebrew-website-club https://webmention.io/notification/Kh7zySpPBwUP-VhYFOeo6g
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tommorris tantek: lanyrd has become similarly filled with snakeoil pushers. such is the fate of unmaintained silos, alas.
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tommorris and there's no meaningful crap reporting tool.
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tantek acquired silos at that
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tantek really? Lanyrd has been filled with snakeoil? dang
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tommorris if you go to the "every event in [city X]" view - e.g. http://lanyrd.com/places/new-york/
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tommorris every single one is "Online conference" which kind of makes the geographical tagging rather pointless
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tommorris I did find out that this is a thing - http://lanyrd.com/2015/nciaorg/
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tommorris "Fall Regional Cannabis Business Summit"
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tantek tommorris: wow
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tantek ok I'm sending that to simon and nat (lanyrd cofounders now at eventbrite)
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tantek and yes, that's exactly the kind of spamming that upcoming got
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tantek which means it's only a matter of time before the parent company declares it dead to spam and kills it
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tommorris eventbrite will be crying all the way to the bank about killing it.
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tommorris simple solution number 1: deputize a bunch of trusted community members to despam the shit out of the platform. would cost nothing. there's a whole lot of love for Lanyrd, just as there was for Upcoming, and I'd happily delete spam on sight if there were a super simple way of doing it.
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aaronpk sounds like foursquare
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snarfed any atom or feed reader experts around? i'd love your input on this! https://github.com/snarfed/facebook-atom/issues/11
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bear do you have the feed files for that @snarfed
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tantek tommorris, I've pinged @simonw about the @Lanyrd spam - feel free to also ping them!
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snarfed bear: sorry, no, they're private (they're your FB news feed), but i can maybe get you example snippets or (more likely) answer q's if you have any
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bear a sample of a post that appears twice would help - that will show me how each post is tagged for atom:item or rss:itme
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bear s/rss:itme/rss:item/
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Loqi bear meant to say: a sample of a post that appears twice would help - that will show me how each post is tagged for atom:item or rss:item
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bear it all depends on what flavour of "id" they are using - guid, guid w/isPermaLink, made up sequence that they swear is unique...
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tantek reads http://burningman.org/culture/philosophical-center/10-principles/ and compares to /principles
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tantek huh, somehow we have 10 principles - never counted them before, we just kept adding / capturing what seemed to be emergently core to the community
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tantek I'm thinking Plurality should just be another in the list of principles (that would make them go to 11 heh)
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tantek any thoughts?
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aaronpk oh yeah guess so
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tantek adding an 11th principle is a good example of #10
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tantek though I kind of feel like listing "Have **fun**" as the last in the list has a certain positive outlook impact that we should keep
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aaronpk agreed
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tommorris have fun was one of my contributions. I added it to the page because IWC often felt like fun while Wikipedia often felt like stress and drama and bickering.
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tantek I remember when you added that tommorris - that was a genius way of capturing what a lot of us were taking for granted
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tantek and we should never forget that sense of whimsy and optimism
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tantek.com edited /plurality (+1586) "extract from principles page and make it into its own page!" (view diff)
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tantek hmm - now to find an emoji for /plurality
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tantek since rainbow already is in use for code-of-conduct :)
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tantek symbols for abstract principles is hard
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tantek hmm these kind of look like silos: 🏰
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tantek.com edited /🏰 (-1) "-r" (view diff)
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tantek how about 🔠 for plurality?
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Zegnat How about ♊️ (gemini, twins) for plurality?
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tantek twins aren't really that different
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tantek how about one of these? ✴ ✳ ❇
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tantek or ✨
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tantek many shining stars of projects
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tantek or the chartjunk business option of plurality: 📊
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tantek alright, ✨ is the best I've got so far, anybody got any better suggestions?
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Zegnat 🔀 to show the “simultaneous exploration and evolution” maybe?
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tantek that does mean "shuffle"
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tantek which is a little different - though we do encourage remixing between projects
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tantek.com created /✨ (+23) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /principles () "(-1070) explicitly include Plurality as a key principle rather than having it after the list. that brings our total to 11. ✨" (view diff)
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tantek ta-da we have 11 principles now https://indiewebcamp.com/principles#Key_Principles
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sparverius woah what the hell, i did not expect my rube goldbergian irc setup to be able to render unicode
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tantek.com edited /principles (+63) "cite 11 reference" (view diff)
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tantek thus preferring a reference to "Up to 11" rather than "10 commandments" or "12 steps"
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tantek quick review of https://indiewebcamp.com/principles to see if it still reads well? (or better, given the net decrease in "wall of text")
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tantek.com edited /principles (+54) "/* Articles */ citation date, author" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /principles (+13) "/* Articles */ cite" (view diff)
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tantek does anyone here do private / limited access posts that have human-friendly URLs like with slugs?
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tantek curious to hear what people have figured out regarding how much it matters (or is it a feature) that people without access to a post might still see the URL and slug
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aaronpk yes, pretty sure I have a couple with content in the slug and have also created some explicitly without
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tantek I feel like I can imagine use-cases for either, but wanted to ask for real world experience before I hypothesized anything
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M-Kodo UX and design is more important than protocols, formats, data models, schema etc.
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M-Kodo Oh man I love that principal
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M-Kodo What is visible data?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "visible data" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/1036
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