#indiewebcamp 2015-10-15

2015-10-15 UTC
tantek, snarfed, kevinmarks, nitot, mlncn, davidmead, wolftune and yakker joined the channel
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tantek what happens when I Bridgy Publish to FB a post with multiple photos?
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[snarfed] i expect it attaches just the first one
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[snarfed] feel free to file a feature request for multiple if you want!
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tantek snarfed - I'm not sure what I want because it gets into the complexity of photo sets / albums.
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tantek also not entirely sure what the "type" of this post is - http://tantek.com/2015/287/t1/did-npsf-tracktuesday (a photo? a long composite note? a blog post without a title?)
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tantek (what happens when you just publish what you feel like, and then try figure out something abstact like post type afterwards)
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tantek (or a photo set with captions on each photo?)
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tantek for now I'm only marking up the first photo as u-photo (defensive coding on my initial photo post implementation) in that post
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tantek the Bridgy Publish FB POSSE copy is a reasonable result - I'm ok that it doesn't have everything that the original does (inline photo for only the first IG, not all four)
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snarfed ok!
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tantek I'll think about it and If I come up with something specific (better) I'd like to see happen, I'll file a feature request.
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[kevinmarks] http://idlewords.com/amp_static.html
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gRegorLove Haha
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ben_thatmustbeme Haha nice
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@malcolmblaney from EFF Internet Companies: Confusing Consumers for Profit - why we need #indieweb (https://unicyclic.com/mal/2015-10-15-from_EFF_Internet_Companies_Confusing_Consumers_f) (twitter.com/_/status/654496897298640897)
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@InramsT Piwik Is An IndieWeb Alternative To Google Analytics - http://www.inramstechnology.com/piwik-is-an-indieweb-alternative-to-google-analytics/ https://twitter.com/InramsT/status/654536687997992960/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/654536687997992960)
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@haq_sanaul RT @InramsT: Piwik Is An IndieWeb Alternative To Google Analytics - http://www.inramstechnology.com/piwik-is-an-indieweb-alternative-to-google-analytics/ https://twitter.com/InramsT/status/654536687997992960/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/654599741850972161)
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@jkphl Very much appreciating @adactio's critical, yet calm & optimistic take on AMP https://adactio.com/journal/9646 +1 for âš¡ = new POSSE channel #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/654605951438356480)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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@idworkshop Interested in #identity #oauth #vrm #privacy #indieweb #bitcoin #blockchain? Come to Internet Identity Workshop http://www.internetidentityworkshop.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/654689381421191168)
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@windley RT @idworkshop: Interested in #identity #oauth #vrm #privacy #indieweb #bitcoin #blockchain? Come to Internet Identity Workshop http://t.co… (twitter.com/_/status/654689422881914880)
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@BYUEA RT @idworkshop: Interested in #identity #oauth #vrm #privacy #indieweb #bitcoin #blockchain? Come to Internet Identity Workshop http://t.co… (twitter.com/_/status/654689422886092800)
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@UniversityAPI RT @idworkshop: Interested in #identity #oauth #vrm #privacy #indieweb #bitcoin #blockchain? Come to Internet Identity Workshop http://t.co… (twitter.com/_/status/654689422986772485)
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@tomwiththeweath RT @idworkshop: Interested in #identity #oauth #vrm #privacy #indieweb #bitcoin #blockchain? Come to Internet Identity Workshop http://t.co… (twitter.com/_/status/654695378525138945)
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gRegorLove https://twitter.com/AdrienneLaF/status/654687964019068928
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@AdrienneLaF Who wants to talk about the ephemerality of the web? Come on over! http://digg.com/dialog/adrienne-lafrance-digital-rot (twitter.com/_/status/654687964019068928)
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gRegorLove Q: What's Digg going to do to make sure that link exists in 5 years?
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gRegorLove Interesting to see Digg doing Ask Me Anything style conversations.
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gRegorLove Also http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/10/raiders-of-the-lost-web/409210/
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snarfed gRegorLove: ask her!
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aaronpk yes ask!
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gRegorLove Posted. Pending moderation.
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gRegorLove http://gregorlove.com/2015/10/what-is-digg-going-to/
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aaronpk nice
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gRegorLove The author "dugg" it
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gRegorLove What is Digg?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Digg" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/104t
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gRegorLove Digg is digg.com
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loqi.me created /Digg (+43) "prompted by gRegorLove https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-10-15/line/1444928368009 and dfn added by gRegorLove" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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snarfed unrelated: i added a fun new bridgy feature last night
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snarfed re log into any of your silos there to see it
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aaronpk how do I re-log in?
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snarfed heh sorry, forget the re, just log in
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aaronpk oh home page
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snarfed ah yeah
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aaronpk hmm when I log in again from the home page, then it prompts me to enable publishing again. does that mean it replaces the read/write token with a read token?
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snarfed is this fb?
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aaronpk twitter
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snarfed oh. yeah, twitter and fb both have kinda unique annoying permission handling
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snarfed so yes, you'd need to reenable publish, sorry
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gRegorLove I'm not noticing what's different
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snarfed gRegorLove: hmm really? you don't see a header?
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gRegorLove Preview looks the same
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snarfed on the page
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aaronpk header?
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gRegorLove I got "Updated gRegorLove (Twitter). Try previewing a post from your web site!" in the yellow bar at the top, that's all.
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gRegorLove I thought that meant you'd updated the preview
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snarfed nothing behind that, upper right?
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snarfed maybe it's broken. looking.
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gRegorLove Naa
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gRegorLove s/Naa/Nada/
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Loqi gRegorLove meant to say: Nada
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aaronpk oh there's a log out button now
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snarfed and a link to your user page, hopefully
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gRegorLove Ctrl+F5s
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aaronpk aha yes
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aaronpk that's helpful :)
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snarfed gRegorLove: wait, was it not there for you before the refresh?
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gRegorLove Ohh. No, it was there, but on the left. The yellow notification bar pushed it left apparently.
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gRegorLove Refresh and no bar, it's on the right now.
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snarfed yup. problem: bridgys "all users" page sucks. solution: ignore it and add this hack instead :P
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gRegorLove Nice :)
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snarfed gRegorLove: huh weird. the css's cache control header uses a 1h expiration. not sure why your browser didn't reload it
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gRegorLove No, I think it did. The Twitter + Logout link were just pushed left because of the notification bar.
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gRegorLove I had just re-enabled publishing. Once I reloaded and no notification bar, links appeared on the right.
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snarfed i don't think it was pushed, since the notif bar is position fixed
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snarfed eh not too important though
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snarfed thanks for testing!
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ben_thatmustbeme ah yeah, i have the twitter / facebook / logout links now
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ben_thatmustbeme nice snarfed
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ben_thatmustbeme snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 148 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme finally setting up some new structures in my site. centralizing authors, adding storage for comments on comments, starting a seperate notifications feed for myself
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kylewm is the Diffie-Hellman paper from yesterday new information since https://weakdh.org/ ?
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kylewm (this is everywhere today https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/haldermanheninger/how-is-nsa-breaking-so-much-crypto/)
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@nobantu RT @idworkshop: Interested in #identity #oauth #vrm #privacy #indieweb #bitcoin #blockchain? Come to Internet Identity Workshop http://t.co… (twitter.com/_/status/654723495159402496)
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snarfed kylewm: yeah sounds like #2 on weakdh.org
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snarfed maybe the new paper is just further work on understanding it
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@nov RT @idworkshop: Interested in #identity #oauth #vrm #privacy #indieweb #bitcoin #blockchain? Come to Internet Identity Workshop http://t.co… (twitter.com/_/status/654724559392784384)
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@jordan_web Will the AMP web kill the open web? by @adactio https://adactio.com/journal/9646 #indieweb #amp #google (twitter.com/_/status/654725256045694981)
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@ChrisAldrich I'm curious if anyone from #socmeducla is using any #IndieWeb tools or perhaps @WithKnown?http://indiewebcamp.com/ https://withknown.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/654725514578362368)
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gRegorLove Digg response: http://digg.com/dialog/adrienne-lafrance-digital-rot#1GHPMHQ-1444930208-fb222ef81a8f4aad9c66bfee3a89b7a3
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gRegorLove (That URL, tho)
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk they also didn't promise to keep their URL around
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aaronpk definitely copy that response back to your site
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aaronpk and then set a reminder to check it in 5 years
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gRegorLove Heh, good idea.
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aaronpk 5 years until let's see if digg was able to keep this link around for 5 years since "5 years is too easy!" http://digg.com/dialog/adrienne-lafrance-digital-rot#1GHPMHQ-1444930208-fb222ef81a8f4aad9c66bfee3a89b7a3 (original: http://gregorlove.com/2015/10/what-is-digg-going-to/)
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Loqi I added a countdown scheduled for 10/15 11:31am (#5729)
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gRegorLove Does seem to save to Wayback Machine well at least: https://web.archive.org/web/20151015183042/http://digg.com/dialog/adrienne-lafrance-digital-rot
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@GluuFederation RT @idworkshop: Interested in #identity #oauth #vrm #privacy #indieweb #bitcoin #blockchain? Come to Internet Identity Workshop http://t.co… (twitter.com/_/status/654726603033874433)
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gRegorLove Hmm, my first quote post.
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@ChrisAldrich For #socmeducla, as an example of #indieweb, take a look at the comments automatically coming back on this post: http://boffosocko.com/2015/07/27/algebraic-number-theory-ucla-extension/ (twitter.com/_/status/654726670138478593)
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aaronpk or just treat it as manual backfeed
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gRegorLove Don't have an easy way to do that currently.
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aaronpk copy the coment to a gist and webmention yourself?
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gRegorLove Ohh
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aaronpk kind of like a makeshift bridgy
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snarfed whoa, the backfed FB threaded comments here are surprisingly good: http://boffosocko.com/2015/07/27/algebraic-number-theory-ucla-extension/#comment-29149
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snarfed i added that support recently, but i didn't realize consumers would recreate the threading
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gRegorLove Manually dropped it in my database. Even put in his photo. http://gregorlove.com/2015/10/what-is-digg-going-to/
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kylewm the wordpress webmention plugin supports threading??
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aaronpk gRegorLove++
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Loqi gRegorLove has 36 karma
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gRegorLove checks Wayback for Digg URLs that are 5 years old to see if they still work.
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snarfed kylewm: yeah, not sure where the underlying support is. magic!
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@seanbohan RT @idworkshop: Interested in #identity #oauth #vrm #privacy #indieweb #bitcoin #blockchain? Come to Internet Identity Workshop http://t.co… (twitter.com/_/status/654731012333682688)
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@PurbaBiz RT @idworkshop: Interested in #identity #oauth #vrm #privacy #indieweb #bitcoin #blockchain? Come to Internet Identity Workshop http://t.co… (twitter.com/_/status/654731306513727488)
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snarfed kylewm: my guess is, bridgy mf2 includes both u-url on fb.com and in-reply-to parent comments on fb.com, so the wp webmention/semantic linkbacks plugins are connecting those two parts
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snarfed very cool
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snarfed examples: https://www.brid.gy/comment/facebook/5410052/10100863765493875/10100863765493875_10100864563714235 , https://www.brid.gy/comment/facebook/5410052/10100863765493875/10100863765493875_10100864657825635
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kylewm wow that's really impressive
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snarfed yup. props to pfefferle et al
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gRegorLove Re: "5 years is too easy!" http://gregorlove.com/2015/10/5-years-is-too-easy-meanwhile/
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aaronpk lol nice
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[kevinmarks] 2010 is before betaworks bought digg?
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tantek.com edited /Micropub (+450) "add Status section, living specification, stablized, numerous implementations, add Participate section with clear links to issues and brainstorming" (view diff)
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petermolnar I few months ago I wanted to dig pre-2002
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petermolnar I guess that's out of the easy level
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[shaners] Loqi, what is a vendor prefix?
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[shaners] what is vendor prefix?
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Loqi yeah!
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "vendor prefix" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/104u
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[shaners] Yes, please.
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aaronpk lol
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aaronpk you can say "vendor prefix is ...." to create it now
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[shaners] I was hoping someone chime in with a pithy definition. :smile:
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aaronpk what is tanteking?
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Loqi Tantek-ing is a method of encouraging people to contribute to the wiki by indirectly prompting the person who first mentioned the term to create a short wiki dfn page for it https://indiewebcamp.com/tanteking
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[shaners] What is "what is tanteking?”ing? :stuck_out_tongue:
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Loqi Tantek-ing is a method of encouraging people to contribute to the wiki by indirectly prompting the person who first mentioned the term to create a short wiki dfn page for it https://indiewebcamp.com/tanteking
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[shaners] error
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[shaners] tantek: Are you working on a `vendor-prefix` page at the moment, by chance?
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[shaners] re: https://github.com/aaronpk/Micropub/issues/13#issuecomment-148497693
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[shaners] aaronpk: when i click on the link above to create the “vendor prefix” page, I get "Permission Error”, even though I’m logged into the wiki in a different Safari tab.
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aaronpk erm, try https
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aaronpk there now Loqi will return https URLs for that
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aaronpk i still have some fiddling with mediawiki plugins/filters before i can force the whole wiki to https
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aaronpk we hotlink too many images
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aaronpk rather, we hotlink images too many different wayas
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rhiaro fly by question aaronpk: why does mp-action use "edit" rather than "update"
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ben_thatmustbeme the whole "you aren't logged in if you are on http but you are if you are on https" on the wiki is confusing and annoying at times
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aaronpk well the alternative is spewing your session cookie all over public wifi networks on the http wiki
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[shaners] ooooh. right.
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ben_thatmustbeme or require https
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aaronpk i can't require https yet
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aaronpk because of hotlinked images
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ben_thatmustbeme ahh
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ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro: that was probably my doing
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aaronpk rhiaro: i don't remember actually where the initial term came from
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ben_thatmustbeme at the time is was just post, i was the one to start using explicit crud as create, edit, delete, undelete
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kylewm aaronpk: i've never understood why mixed mode warnings -> can't require https
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aaronpk kylewm: because then images don't load, or browsers show scary warning pages
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ben_thatmustbeme not really scary warning for mixed
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ben_thatmustbeme chrome is making it less scary
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ben_thatmustbeme and when do images not load?
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aaronpk yeah chrome is going to make it just look like it's not secure, which is better than the crazy warnings before
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aaronpk stuff like this https://support.haikulearning.com/hc/en-us/article_attachments/200877436/Mixed_content_8.png
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aaronpk or this lol http://wp.valenciacollege.edu/lts-blog/files/2014/01/IC310968.gif
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ben_thatmustbeme mmm, theres a pretty text box
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aaronpk some browsers block loading the http images unless you confirm the warning
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aaronpk anyway i'm getting closer on it. at least now I have the web service running that will cache and serve hotlinked images. webmention.io is using it now
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aaronpk also means that if you're displaying webmentions from webmention.io, you'll never get a missing avatar again
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kylewm aaronpk++ content addressable image cache!
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Loqi aaronpk has 977 karma
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kylewm whoa didn't realize you were so close to 1000
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veganstraightedge.com created /Vendor-prefix (+1383) "Create vendor-prefix page" (view diff)
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[shaners] What is vendor prefix?
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Loqi A Vendor Prefix is string of text before a variable/property to signal that the variable/property is a superset extension to an application/spec generally to add proprietary or experimental features https://indiewebcamp.com/Vendor-prefix
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[shaners] Does that sound reasonable to yall?
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tantek great article on the lack of /longevity of stuff online: http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/10/raiders-of-the-lost-web/409210/
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tantek and you know how I often pushback about such-and-such suggestion requiring "too much maintenance"? This is why: “The day-in, day-out maintenance [of the site] just stopped happening, and so pretty quickly, some stuff didn’t work,” Vaughan said.
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tantek maintenance is not sustainable.
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tantek “The interesting thing is that, at that time [in the 1990s], it was easier to archive the web because everything was flat web pages,” said Alexander Rose, the executive director of the Long Now Foundation
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tantek flatfiles++
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Loqi flatfiles has 1 karma
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tantek “So if you did save something, your chances of being able to see it and use it would be vastly better than if a company folded today, with deep back-ends of content-management systems like Drupal and Ruby and Django and all these things. The pages are not actual pages.”
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tantek gRegorLove++ http://gregorlove.com/2015/10/5-years-is-too-easy-meanwhile/
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Loqi gRegorLove has 37 karma
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tantek gRegorLove: perhaps you could help with getting digg to add h-entry etc. to those comment threads? http://digg.com/dialog/adrienne-lafrance-digital-rot
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kevinmarks silos hiding URLs http://techcrunch.com/2015/10/15/smart-pipes-and-dumb-content/
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aaronpk need I remind people of this again http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2014/06/06/1/the-importance-of-urls
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tantek what is URL wrapping?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "URL wrapping" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/104v
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tantek hmm
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tantek hmm - here's the only summary of silo link wrapping (URL hiding) I could find https://indiewebcamp.com/why#More_author_centric
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tantek kevinmarks, aaronpk
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tantek ^^^
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tantek feel free to take that and your (new) data points and create a page about the phenomenon
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kevinmarks that reminds me, I need to add utm_ rewriting to auto_link
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tantek oh that's interesting
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tantek why not just utm_* stripping to start with?
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kevinmarks for the reason cited there - I want them to see "indieweb" show up in their referrer tracking
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@kevinmarks how twitter's moments pull the image from your tweets and buries the link http://techcrunch.com/2015/10/15/smart-pipes-and-dumb-content/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/654789291076251648)
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snarfed utmstripping++
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snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/webutil/blob/master/util.py#L235-L236
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Loqi utmstripping has 1 karma
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kevinmarks you see, I want to subvert their metrics
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kevinmarks so change utm_source to indieweb and utm_medium to webmention
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kevinmarks so when they generate charts in urchin they get extra bars
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snarfed like people who swap safeway club cards (etc) in hopes of skewing safeway's analytics
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snarfed funny
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kevinmarks the starbucks 1 in 10 free thing is a good one to game - if everyone puts in the same phone number it raises your chance of a free one
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snarfed FB api v2.5 launched a week ago. i skimmed the changes, nothing too big for us specifically. https://developers.facebook.com/docs/apps/changelog#v2_5
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